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There are reasons that counteracts your arguments about the size. Main reason for making them bigger: Room for more stuff. Sounds stupid, but its really not in this case. Let me elaborate. "More stuff" mostly being things you don't see on tanks like void shields and massive generators for powering the weapons. Now logics would say, as you do WesHammer, "but the more stuff the more weight, soon it wont be able to move." ... but there is a missed part here. - due to their size they can and probably have various types of antigrav generators to make them lighter, because, again size means more armor, more stuff and massivly more weight - that you can to a degree counteract with said antigrav tech. And we know that the Imperium has pretty advanced anti- and grav tech. Some of which are far beyond what most of the other factions use, for instance grav weapons. So about the size, sure there is a point in which making them bigger doesn't carry over any real benifits. But its probably when you go over the 300 meters some lore seems to go with. Up to that point, anti-grav tech might just make them viable despite being gargantuan.
No sorry female space marines aren't a thing and should never be. The sisters of battle are so much cooler then space marines but the gender ideologs don't actually care about representation or the hobby itself. They just want to shove political opinion where it doesn't belong. Equity is the desolation of innovation.
Cheers, Wes, fun vid that voiced lots of the obvious and not so obvious questions. And reminds us it’s all based on a game, people. Now I wanna build a cos play one. Cheers!
I mean, they’d f#ck up your veg patch if they came stomping through. I imagine the compensation forms would keep you busy with the Administratum Beuracracy for decades. You big metal bastard, that’s my prize turnips! Oh but thanks for annihilating those Tyranifs…….
if not fighting on the outside surface could be similar to a space hulk scenario but not just tyranids and terminators. Even add in some rng for missed shots causing bad things like coolant system goes offline like Aliens.
“You got me f*cked up if you think I’m breaking down and transporting a 7-foot tall thick ass titan boy and transporting that big bastard to the store” -Wes, 2024
People always talk about the titan size variation, but the huge disparity in Legion size when they are in an actual fight vs in the background is also super hilarious.
Fax! I also get confused how they can be such a threat later on in the heresy with so many casualties? Night lord casualties on pharos would have crippled the legion but no, they were a massive threat in the seige of terra. A whole continent spanning conflicts and the biggest legion numberd 200k maybe less legioners?? In my head cannon all he legions numbered 500k astartes except the ravenguard and salamanders and my brain stays sane
Space marine legion size in comparison to the size is Imperium of man is absurdly low for what it is lol. I remember watching an old video somewhere that talk about this ratio and compared it with the U.S Military. I think came out as much less, i think less than 1/6th, than what the U.S military have in terms of special forces in comparison to the total population of the United states, which ultimately comes to conclusion that the astro-militarum and space marine needs to be much, much bigger for it all to makes sense. And games workshop is really, really bad with numbers and ratios lol.
13:53 counter argument. Forgeworls released the Tau Manta, which is the size of a small table. Its so big you can play Killteam on it. They could easily come out with an Emperor Titan. It'll probably cost an arm, a leg, and the soul of my firstborn, but they totally could, and personally, i think they should
They could always just make it a really expensive collectable that doesn't have any rules. Honestly the biggest problem is probably on the sculptor; something so big and intricately detailed would require a sculptor months of continuous work (which would probably be better spent on making minis for literally anything else). Not to mention the amount of material itself and the logistics of shipping it out. That's a lot of resources just for something relatively few people would even buy.
I don't see the point other than to build it, paint it, then Display it. Bringing that to an actual table top game though? No. Not even if you play on the floor. Unless you're literally using it AS terrain setting, that's just too massive for the game itself. Transporting it would suck, likely to the point where you just leave it where the games are hosted. It'd be more trouble than it's actually worth.
Like I said above, just sell an Emperor Titan costume, complete with a rule set. That way instead of trying to field a 6 to 7 ft tall resin model. You've just got your buddy standing on the table in a costume while you roll the bucket full of dice needed for every attack. 😂
Your comment just gave me what I think is one of the coolest ideas ever… a scale emperor class titan, like one of the ones with the cathedrals, but instead of cathedrals, have your table top for playing 40k… huh? Maybe even have cathedrals that can cover the playing surface when not in use so it looks cooler when not doing anything… now I want one! Lol 😂
I like to think that the inconsistent sizes has to do with the different Forge Worlds producing titans to their own specifications. Canonically, the Lucifer Class Warlord Titan model from Epic 40k is in scale with the Mars Pattern Warlord Titan from Epic 30k because, while both are supposed to be the same machine, due to different design philosophies and resource availabilities, they won't end up being the same size. So, a rich Forge World like Mars could ABSOLUTELY produce kilometer tall Imperators. But they're certainly few and far between.
Speaking only about Emperor class titans, there are at best a literall hand full of them known to exist in M41, so I have no clue as to how much their different places of origin might play a role. Talking Titans in general tho, I like the idea of different patterns resulting in different sizes for the same designation.
@@Daedricbob The American Forge Worlds are renown for their Titans, but nobody trusts them for anything else as the only other time they were contracted to make something, the Bolters produced were far too large for the Space Marines who commissioned them. ‘My lord, the specifications said 120”’ ‘I MEANT CENTIMETERS NOT INCHES!’
I see no problem with 10km tall titans overcoming the impossibility of their design by not sinking into the ground or other circumstances that would happen in reality. They are God machines after all. If orcs can make a giant pile of garbage fly, why can't the omnissiah make a titan walk.
There is likely a wide variety of heights for different types of titans, and also, a lot of the lore does just show you the titans from the perspective of some individual who will not have an objective perspective on their size. However, if you actually take realism into account on size, and how space marines are capable of being inside of one, we are looking at an emperor class being at least being 100m's.
@SordidusFellatioeven at that old Rita it’s are a bastard of a dark age titan . So who know with darkage tech what the upper limit would be for a Titan .
@SordidusFellatioThey have to be a minimum internal volume for the voidship grade components, which makes the idea that an Imperator is 50m to the head laughable.
i distinctively remember reading how emperor titans were big enough to house multiple companies worth of soldiers in their legs, as garrisons, as they walked into battle. and iirc its like roughly 100~250 ppl per company...
The Statue of Liberty trounces an Imperator in height, clocking in at 93 meters compared to the Titan's pitiful 40 meters. I simply refuse to acknowledge this. Imperators can leap frog over the Statue of Liberty, cry about it.
At only 40 meters tall you wouldn't be able to actually use the doors mounted in their lower legs. That gives us some scale, those are for mortal infantry. At a 40m height the hipjoints are probably impassable too, so now there's no foot access to upper decks Some dirty maths gave me 70m as the minimum height for the imperator while making the leg bastions workable for standard humans
“We struck a blow to the shoulder and felt victory as it collapsed, then we realized that was not debris spilling down with the arm. It was pissed off space marines in the dozens. We knew we could not run fast enough to escape.” - Daemons their first “successful” attack on the machine
I like the more "realistic" scale for Titans. That being said, just imagining the smaller ones like a Reaver walking past your house and looking down at you on the third floor would be quite an awe-inspiring sight.
how is the smaller scale more "realistic" ? given 40k lore and the state of technology if anything the larger size estimates are the more realistic ones especially given the descriptions of entire battles taking place on top of emperor class titans.
@@KT-pv3kl High silhouettes for ground combat vehicles are always a negative. There's a reason tanks aim for low profile. Big and tall just makes it easier for people to shoot. You can argue technology blah blah blah, but nothing changes the fact that the higher a target the more fire it takes that it can't answer.
@@KT-pv3klbecause they have to be transported via ship and landed and then recovered from planet to planet for deployment. The smaller estimates logistically make way more sense, even with the sizes of 40k ships
@@seandlax9 you just defeated your own argument by mentioning the absurd sizes of 40k ships. Adeptus Mechanicus lifter Barges are several kilometers long and can easily store SEVERAL titan legions at the same time, all the while being capable of landing and liftoff on pretty much any planet. plus the imperium doesnt do "sensible logistics" it drops cathedrals onto peoples heads to make a point! think of our own history for a second here and you will see how weak your own argument is. "stones need to be transported via ship using smaller stones to build the great pyramids make way more sense logistically"
I agree with you with regard to the table game scale influence on the scale of titans. However, as a lore nerd and as a mech addict - in my mind an emperor titan is the kind of scale where astartes can easily traverse the internal corridors and ladders of its legs without being noticed. With a city block of a citadel on its back. Massive. Gigantic. Head in the clouds and all. The tread of it shaking the earth and breaking the minds of even combat hardened astra militarum
The idea of tians walking around dwarfing everything else has always been awesome, I do like the idea that they are more realistically sized and could walk through a city and use buildings as cover.
I feel like Knights would be the city traversing monsters. Some mining excavators that we have In our current world are bigger than that, so I could definitely see Titans 40,000yrs from now being legit skyscraper sized
@@AaronBeSpeedy Absolutely agree.Although no reason a scout titan would not be able to use your appartment complex (or designated hab zone if you prefer) for cover. For a Warlord you might need a bigger bush tho, not to mention Emperor titans ;)
@@DackelDelay I was just thinking about this, and realized that "Scout" doesnt neccesarily mean "Stealthy" 😂 I think that Titans would only be used as scouts in situations where the enemy forces couldnt deploy enough firepower (or altogether lacked the firepower) to assault the Titan in any meaningful way. Titans of any size/designation are too valuable to risk on scouting missions where they wouldn't have the full weight of their friendly forces available to reinforce them. Just my thoughts though
@@AaronBeSpeedy >I think that Titans would only be used as scouts in situations where the enemy forces couldnt deploy enough firepower (or altogether lacked the firepower) to assault the Titan in any meaningful way. I THINK (its been a while since I read it) thats exactly what happens in the Forge of Mars series, where a bunch of titans were deployed in this manner; both to gather intel on a planet where there was little to no danger expected and to give the titans some fresh air (as they became restless during the long trip aboard the Speranza).
you mention the nightlords taking a titan, there is also a bit in the word bearers series where they launch an infantry ambush on an imperator (or was it a warlord, been years since I last read it), and really do a number on it. Imperator class size wise, I like the depiction in titanicus by Dan Abnett: "The super-heavy Imperator was so massive that the Manifold tracks made it look like part of the hive’s vast structure, detached and moving of its own volition." and where it takes a significant number of warlords and other titans (dozens) linking to pierce the shielding of a chaos imperator. Bearing in mind dozens of titans are firing on it, and it's shields are down I'll end on this quote: "Augmenautus Rex took ten whole minutes to die. Serial bombardment felled its towers and thorned minarets, shattered its black glass windows and exploded its crenellated battlements. Ablaze, a ghastly, staggering behemoth sheeting white-hot flame and noxious black smoke, it kept firing, and took two more forge-loyal engines down with it."
The TLDR answer, as with everything in 40K, Titans are as large as the story needs them to be. That's the key difference between Warhammer and any other Sci-Fi universe, does a lasgun have recoil? It does if the story needs them to have recoil. How many Space Marines died at Cadia? As many as the story required. How many people escaped Cadia? As many as the story requires. How many Eldar are left in the galaxy? As many as the story requires. How poweful is the Emperor? As powerful as the story requires Him to be.
There is a genre out there called Science-fantasy, and what you are describing is one of the biggest ways to know when you are dealing with such. Universal consistent changing dependent on the situation, that is some fantasy narrative right there. It isn't just the presence of magic either, though that quickly changes constants, but flexibility with the physical laws themselves that marks fantasy. So what is it: Will a las gun go through a modern tank, or is it stopped by wet paper? Depends which wizard is writing the story today!
@slimjim877 Not exactly incorrect, GW doesn't care too much about consistency, because the universe was never created to be consistent, it was created to give people a chance to build their own armies, tell their own stories. That's what sets Warhammer aside from, say, Star Wars or Dune, which have exact answers to questions. In Warhammer, the questions are the point, to guide you to where you want to tell the story. That makes some people butthurt, but that's because they came into the hobby with wrong expectations.
This is not actually a good policy. When the reader is reading some dramatic scene, when they suddenly say "Hey, didn't lasguns/power armor/etc. work *completely differently* in that other story I read last week?" That moment of realization yanks you out of the narrative and reminds you that you're just reading a story. I will never understand this sense of brazen contempt for the concept of immersion, to the point that "my immersion" has become a punchline.
@@dark7element And you're definitely entitled to that opinion, I'm just saying, it's funny that people are complaining about that NOW, when that's how Warhammer has worked even in the days of Rogue Trader. This is not new, and if it's annoying you now, Warhammer might not be the IP for you, or you can focus on the parts of the Lore that fit your preferred viewpoint and stick to those.
My gead cannon goes like this: Emperor class: 100-150m (sky scraper size but believable enough for something called a god machine and the strongest ground based imperial weapon) Warlord:60-80 (smaller then the emperor class but still big enough to demolish buildings) Reaver:40-50(maybe even smaller but believable enough Warhound: 10-20 or so (the whole idea of a scout titan is a bit ridiculous but 20 m is small enough to be hidden in an urban environment or behind hills)
"Emperor class: 100-150m (sky scraper size but believable enough for something called a god machine and the strongest ground based imperial weapon)" what kind of skyscrapers are you living with. big ben is 96m tall. An imperator should be the size depicted in the grand art, Notre-Dame d'Amiens is 113 m tall and something the size of that should be on its back so including the cathedral the thing should be atleast 500 meters tall ( which would still make it shorter than One World Trade Center which is 541m tall) in a world where buildings go multiple kilometers in every direction. "Warlord:60-80 (smaller then the emperor class but still big enough to demolish buildings)" it should be in 250-300 atleast again, a lot shorter than the imperator but still massive. Demolished buildings in 40k should be the size of city blocks according to lore. Reavers about 100m and scouts and that 30-40 range.
@@firmak2This! If an Emperor titian is large enough to be able to deploy tanks from it's feet and "Level entire citys" singlehandedly it should be large enough to see coming for at least a day ahead and just build dread in those people!
@@firmak2 Personally I think you're right about the Emperor's size estimations, however for the Warlord and below classes the smaller estimations kind of make more sense as they are relatively mass produced. Nothing wrong with having the smaller titans in range of 15-100m, then a lot of nothing, and then Emperors (which are few and far between) as truely massive engines.
Personnaly I prefer to just think of them as being hundreds of meters tall and that GW did this in the lore just for the scale to be managable for table game. It makes no sense to me that peak humanity could build things not even the size of today warships... The Yamato (WW2) ship had 20 meters long artillery pieces... Also trying to apply today material knowledge and physics to a fictionnal humanity that conquered the galaxy is just strange when anti gravity things would be needed for everything. I would prefer if GW had stick with unbelievable sized warmachines and just applied a reduced scale to them for the table game...
Hear hear, I mean those hulking machines are already carrying reality defying weapons like plasma cannons anyway so realism can be stretched out a little bit more. And we've terraformed entire planets and populated them with colossal cities. If the largest 40k titans are described as having enough firepower to take on whole continents, then the image of them parting the clouds and walking through mountain ranges fit the role more than smaller machines that can't even stand up to Godzilla in scale.
So much this. Throw in a bunch of Unobtainium armour and future-scifi-fusion-driven pistons and you got yourself a titan. Granted, the physics of soil stability should not change from real life now to fictional M41, so mobility certainly would an issue; however Emperor class titans are stated to be more of a mobile command post with enormous amounts of void shields, long ranged artilleries as offensive weapons and short ranged AA capeblilities as well as housing deployable ground troupes for close combat. So this would put emperor titans of about 300-500m (~1/4 mile) in "reasonable" territory or at least at a point where not too much suspension of disbelief is required. Also it would make the cathedral's size on their backs match today's real cathedrals (100-150m ish in height), overall enhancing realism and immersion. Also I don't really see why it would be impossible for smaller titans to exist; scout titans "just" a few stories tall don't contradict the existance of truely massive war engines. The only limiting factor I see is interplanetary transport, i.e. ship size. (Else why build a titan when a fortress would do?) So we are looking at something that would occupy a reasonable portion of a ship in the high single to low double digit kilometer range. That's length tho, no height. So yea, for my headcancon Emperor titans are about 300m tall.
As long as the Titans are As big as a City which is often claimed and the reason I thought they were cool in the first place and at lthe very least they have to be much bigger than any mech from Mechwarrior. I am happy.
If you take a 2,5 story tall one family house and put it on legs as tall as a grown male giraffe you got yourself a scout. Our perception of how big something is, is often messed up, because when we walk 70m turn around and look back to our starting point we think "pff, thats pathetic" but when we are next to a 20m wave we shit our pants and are awestruck for the rest of our lives
Wes, I'm starting to appreciate your videos more and more. The research you put into making them is getting to Luetin-levels and it shows. I've read some 50+ 40k books and yet the videos are still both entertaining and "educational" (lol XD) Nice job!
At 10 minutes I think you misunderstood the intention of that meme. It didn’t say the canon was 130 feet long, it meant that “in cannon they are 130 feet tall” not that they had 130 foot long cannons 😉 But, as always, I love the video! Thank you!
I would like to believe that emperor class is not a specific size, but just a way of calling anything larger than a warlord or warmaster titan. My headcanon is that since titans are so rare and resource expensive, the smallest of them have well defined patterns like warhound etc, which explains why they can still be produced in the current setting, but the largest of them are essentially pre great crusade relics, kind of unique, custom, one-off specimens (think gloriana class battleships) whose size can vary anywhere between the reported numbers 50-150m or possibly more for destroyed/lost/forgotten ones. I'm not basing this on anything, this is just what would make most sense to me and what I would enjoy believing.
I think they could easily be like 100-300 Meters tall, just because its cool. And for the Problem of the bipedal movement, nothing stops GW from stating These God-Machines use some tech from the dark age with ant-Gravity. We have so many New hover-Tanks of the Space-Marines, Mankind in 20k would be able to Create something like this. This would result in Not mutch weight pressing on the ground and it would also help against tipping over. If you can create Giant Cathedrals flying in Space, you can also make some smaller ones hovering on two legs
There’s a role playing, table top games, hobby store near where I live. The owner has a (verified by GW) million point army with a (GW authorized) emperor class titan that is at scale (using Epic as the measurements for comparison) but was home made by him but was legally allowed and used in GW tournaments many many many years ago. GW saw it and loved it and was one of the few home built game miniatures (I’d you could call it a miniature) allowed and signed off as legal (at that time) as a playable miniature. The thing stands around the height of a child. It now sits in a case behind flags with the rear of his space marine army with the GW records and other awards on display.
Another fantastic video by Weshammer! Your content never fails to impress and entertain. Keep up the great work! I especially can’t wait for the day you do a deep dive on Konrad Curze and the Night Lords!
Holy cow! Your titan is gigantic! GIGANTIC! Your titan is literally the biggest thing in the tri-galaxy area! It’s bigger than a small elephant! It’s bigger than a tree a big ol’ tree! Lots of cannons on your titan! You must wake up every day and thank the good emperor above. You’re truly blessed. Congrats.
@@CidVeldoril it's not about the units, it's about just *how stupidly massive* that is and how it doesn't jive with literally any depiction of knights. I'm just pretty sure that this guy doesn't actually understand how long a meter is.
I think a knight being roughly 30-45ft tall would make sense. A lot of the trees in my area are about that tall and Knights being as tall as trees makes sense in my head. I could see something that size still having fluid, natural looking movements
@unnamedenemy9 so you automatically result to insults because I commented on what I think the sizes should be? It's not that deep bro...go outside, touch some grass, get laid or something 🤔
I've been a Mechwarrior fan much longer than a 40k fan, so I had to compare. I love that even the scout titan is larger than a Mechwarrior assault mech, the heaviest class. It's really in line with the Imperium as a whole. Like sometimes they come to a world and fight people in power armour, but those people are dwarfed by the Astartes.🤣
For reference, the statue of liberty is 305' (93m). an emperor-class titan even with the cathedral being shorter is ridiculous. for battles, sure, current scale is good. for lore, they should absolutely be 200m tall.
Rule of cool. GW is making a mistake by not making them impossibly massive in the lore. They need throw out realistic sizes and just ebrace how ridiculous we want it to be.
Yeah to be completely honest the reason I got into Warhammer was because of titans though back then you could only get a warhound Titan which I got from forge world itself went there on my birthday and brought it there which was the one of the best thing's ever now I have a chaos reaver Titan and I have a warlord titan which is the pride and joy of my collection
A VR oriented 40k game based on titan combat would be incredible since it would provide a genuine sense of scale for how big even a 30M titan is let alone the 100+ of an imperator class
40K hints at supersuperheavy vehicles like the Leviathan command fortress and rolling cities. I'd love to see more on those things. Heck, I wish GW would show us more of Medusa, where apparently every city is a enormous vehicle.
Two things. First, love your stuff and I can't wait for you to do an apothecary deep dive. Second, I really like the Knights and Titians and would love Games Workshop let someone make a video game where you could pilot them and the Titans from other factions including Tyranid bio titans.
Titans have battlements with scitarii and point defense to defend from troop incursions like that. Additionally, although you can make a " battalion of tanks" instead of a titan, the titan fills the role of a god "machine" through shock and awe. Terrans were not the only race with titans, the eldar and orcs have their versions, so, these terran titans fill a role that was required to counter xenos threats.
They're 75 metres for the Imperator. The tallest is 100 metres, which is the Castigator, the father of all Titans, allegedly. Abominatus is an exception.
One of my favorite pieces of 40k artwork is the one with the lines of Vostroyan Firstborn going back into the distance and you see two Lucius Warlords that have to be over 500 meters tall walking behind them.
My first introduction to 40K was Adeptus Mechanicius, where you got a bunch of beetle Warlord Titans and I was hooked. For me, one of the main draws was always big stompy robots.
Based on what the author for the Infinite and the Divine said about the speeds and heights in that book. Writers for GW are often given pretty tight due dates with limited extensions, so rarely is it viable to do a lot of surplus research. It is more important that sizes feel big and speeds feel fast than the actual exact measurements being any of those things.
Speaking of size, you should cover the Arc Mechanicus. Ships so big, that they can function as forgeworlds by themselves, and need teleportariums to ensure that the crew can be in their assigned stations. At least that's how they are described in the "Forges of Mars" trilogy.
I've always loved the idea that they deploy Emperor class Titans in their own drop-pod. You survive the cataclysmic impact of that drop-pod, just to face what's inside!! Someone's going to have a bad day! :D
The photo measurement was a good idea. But I think you may have forgotten about the perspective between the person you used and the barrel of the fun. You would need to know the distance first. Not sure if someone has said that if they have sorry haha. But still good idea.
I would love the table top version to just be the feet. And the "attacks" are more like calling in a strike on an location. Like bringing a battleship to a gun fight. And make the inside of the feet into something you could store units in for transport.
I started 40k playing Epic and I had multiple titans including the emperor (all converted to chaos of course because BAH who wants to worship a horrible dead guy on a gold toilet when you have real gods to choose from) and the emperor was approximately one chubby heavily armed statue of liberty tall, side note lady liberty was originally stationed there to fight off the infestation of stay puffs and kongs.
Could you imagine being up in those cathedrals while the thing is walking. Just imagine the whiplash! Those things have gotta have some serious inertial dampeners!
Titans are my favorite! I also thought they were way way bigger but yeah you make a great point that they can’t really be any bigger for the actual board game. Even still one of those in real life would be insane!
I always thought that honestly there is a lot of varients of the big ones , and that some of the more ancient ones are way bigger since Big E would have ordered their construction or it was the Mechanicus had them for the big wars on Mars . So a realistic way for them to think of could be the Mechanicus hides the truly big ones to bring out only when they truly need them. And the more realistically constructed ones are in the Legions
the "scale" in the tabletop is actually progressive or rather "regressive" infantry is scaled in 32mm (formerly 28) but all larger models are usually in smaller scale meaning tanks like the rhino are actually much larger than the model suggests. this trend progresses even further for superheavy tanks and flyers as well as titans. the bigger the vehicle the smaller the scale to make it practical for tabletop usage. this trend holds also true for other GW games like Battlefleet Gothic where we have far more references for the lore accurate size of spaceships. when comparing them to the tabletop minis we can observe that the larger the ship the smaller the model scale.
I see it as like trying to powerscale luke from star wars legends. You can take him as he is when he moved a black hole. Or how he is when he almost passes out trying to make one ship illusion, or when he made an entire fleet of illusionary ships with ease. All of these are chronological btw so he is supposed to be getter stronger as this goes on but the power he displays even in the same book series can vary drastically (Edit) FREEDOM FRACTIONS FOREVER MY AMERICAN BROTHER
A few months ago I decided to sculpt "the Oak of ages" from Warhammer fantasy as a table top terrain piece. I ended up making a 75cm high tree that would dominate your average gaming table. I then realised that this would only represent a 45m high tree - vastly smaller than the mountain sezed tree of warhammer lore. Yet as far as table top pieces go, I don't want anything bigger for reasons of practicality. Titans run into the same issue.
I've actually got a small ttrpg idea cooking of a fight through a imperator titan, from the feet up through the entire structure. Obviously there's a shit ton too work out using the old deathwatch as a base but I think it has promise
Let's also not forget how every Titan is a copy of a copy and are becoming more and more inferior. As the Castigator Titan in the Grey Knights omnibus said; "Yes, I was created in a time even I cannot recall and which has been lost to your Imperium. From the historical records on Chaeroneia, I could piece together nothing but legends and guesswork about the Golden Age, the time you call the Dark Age of Technology. There I was made, so that in this future your people could build this machine. But in the wars that followed, I was lost. The information I contained was used to create inferior copies, built too quickly and modified too heavily. When I was lost, copies were made of these inferior reflections in turn, so that the form of the Titan became crude and unworthy. I was the first Titan and the god-machines that strike your kind with awe are all pale shadows of me. I was lost, for men are ignorant and made war on one another until no one was left alive who knew where I was hidden. I stayed lost for thousands of years."
Biggest issue is weight because there were real world tanks designed so heavy that they were actually useless. Then you need the magic of void shields to keep a target that large from being such an easy target that Orks could hit it. It's a bit like all the Gundam series where you have to throw science out the window for something that just looks cool.
I just love the one scene from the first book in WB trilogy, the Dark Apostle. Where there are "buried" and shut down WB terminators in the cliffside of the canyon, ambushing the titan walking trough. As they fight their way trough it´s leg to disable it... very cool action in very cool book! Probabyl my favourite in the trilogy.
Best idea is work out the number of crew members and estimate what size the head would need to be to accommodate the command team. The Imperator's head would probably be 2 or 3 stories high.
Okay so I am a 40k fan but I would like to ask....make a video of chaos lords no matter the tides.... but make a video of some chaos gods working together. Love your video dude
They could definitely do a 7ft tall model for it. They'd just have to set up cons centered around like a game board arena. The rules would be different probably and each unit would have to represent an entire kill team. But they could start selling killteam minis to get people invest on playing at the convention. Might be able to make it something like an E-sport. That'd be fun. They'd have to provide the titan models though
For reference. Cellphone towers in the US are between 100 and 500 feet tall. Broadcast towers for TV/Radio can be upwards of 2,000 - 2,500 feet tall. Depending on the type of tower and where you are.
Titans get 4 to 6 Void shields, when an Astartes Battlebarge has only 3. This gives them an approximate size and power like a 40k battleship. Add to this the fact they are Dark Age machines which presumably fought against the Men of Iron, and things become a bit simpler. You can make Titans as big and as heavy as you want, when you include anti-grav plates to help them manage their mass, and they won't sink into the ground. We also know that humanity in 40k can build spires which can rise outside the atmosphere, because adamantium is just that strong. A Titan at 8 to 10 kms tall is not a problem.
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There are reasons that counteracts your arguments about the size.
Main reason for making them bigger: Room for more stuff. Sounds stupid, but its really not in this case. Let me elaborate.
"More stuff" mostly being things you don't see on tanks like void shields and massive generators for powering the weapons. Now logics would say, as you do WesHammer, "but the more stuff the more weight, soon it wont be able to move." ... but there is a missed part here. - due to their size they can and probably have various types of antigrav generators to make them lighter, because, again size means more armor, more stuff and massivly more weight - that you can to a degree counteract with said antigrav tech. And we know that the Imperium has pretty advanced anti- and grav tech. Some of which are far beyond what most of the other factions use, for instance grav weapons.
So about the size, sure there is a point in which making them bigger doesn't carry over any real benifits. But its probably when you go over the 300 meters some lore seems to go with. Up to that point, anti-grav tech might just make them viable despite being gargantuan.
Pretty sure star trek uses some space magic as well 😂
No sorry female space marines aren't a thing and should never be. The sisters of battle are so much cooler then space marines but the gender ideologs don't actually care about representation or the hobby itself. They just want to shove political opinion where it doesn't belong. Equity is the desolation of innovation.
Cheers, Wes, fun vid that voiced lots of the obvious and not so obvious questions. And reminds us it’s all based on a game, people. Now I wanna build a cos play one. Cheers!
I mean, they’d f#ck up your veg patch if they came stomping through. I imagine the compensation forms would keep you busy with the Administratum Beuracracy for decades. You big metal bastard, that’s my prize turnips! Oh but thanks for annihilating those Tyranifs…….
That being said using a titan as the landscape for a game sounds absurdley cool
I basically want to 3d print and Imperator upper half to use as a Gaming table
if not fighting on the outside surface could be similar to a space hulk scenario but not just tyranids and terminators. Even add in some rng for missed shots causing bad things like coolant system goes offline like Aliens.
If you're considering paying thousands of dollars just to use a model as terrain.... I'm genuinely concerned you may be addicted to the plastic lol
I’ve thought about building my game table or part of it as the back of a titan
Get your 4 year old to rampage the table for the same result
“You got me f*cked up if you think I’m breaking down and transporting a 7-foot tall thick ass titan boy and transporting that big bastard to the store”
-Wes, 2024
xD*
That warranted a like for the video
You gotta put it together like Exodia
And there was a such an easy answer. You wear the Titan as a suit as you go the 40k convention.
People always talk about the titan size variation, but the huge disparity in Legion size when they are in an actual fight vs in the background is also super hilarious.
Fax! I also get confused how they can be such a threat later on in the heresy with so many casualties? Night lord casualties on pharos would have crippled the legion but no, they were a massive threat in the seige of terra. A whole continent spanning conflicts and the biggest legion numberd 200k maybe less legioners?? In my head cannon all he legions numbered 500k astartes except the ravenguard and salamanders and my brain stays sane
scale overall is depicted rather terribly and i dont understand why.
I wish they capped Legions at 10k Space Marines are not foot soldiers they're more like tier 1 special forces imagine sas & delta but with geneseed
Yeah, like some apocalyptic scale conflicts, that have less soldiers on the entire planet than WW1 armies had in one battle.
Space marine legion size in comparison to the size is Imperium of man is absurdly low for what it is lol. I remember watching an old video somewhere that talk about this ratio and compared it with the U.S Military. I think came out as much less, i think less than 1/6th, than what the U.S military have in terms of special forces in comparison to the total population of the United states, which ultimately comes to conclusion that the astro-militarum and space marine needs to be much, much bigger for it all to makes sense. And games workshop is really, really bad with numbers and ratios lol.
13:53 counter argument. Forgeworls released the Tau Manta, which is the size of a small table. Its so big you can play Killteam on it. They could easily come out with an Emperor Titan. It'll probably cost an arm, a leg, and the soul of my firstborn, but they totally could, and personally, i think they should
They could always just make it a really expensive collectable that doesn't have any rules. Honestly the biggest problem is probably on the sculptor; something so big and intricately detailed would require a sculptor months of continuous work (which would probably be better spent on making minis for literally anything else). Not to mention the amount of material itself and the logistics of shipping it out. That's a lot of resources just for something relatively few people would even buy.
I don't see the point other than to build it, paint it, then Display it. Bringing that to an actual table top game though? No. Not even if you play on the floor. Unless you're literally using it AS terrain setting, that's just too massive for the game itself. Transporting it would suck, likely to the point where you just leave it where the games are hosted. It'd be more trouble than it's actually worth.
Like I said above, just sell an Emperor Titan costume, complete with a rule set. That way instead of trying to field a 6 to 7 ft tall resin model. You've just got your buddy standing on the table in a costume while you roll the bucket full of dice needed for every attack. 😂
Make it to scale based on a Marine Model and I am in!
Your comment just gave me what I think is one of the coolest ideas ever… a scale emperor class titan, like one of the ones with the cathedrals, but instead of cathedrals, have your table top for playing 40k… huh? Maybe even have cathedrals that can cover the playing surface when not in use so it looks cooler when not doing anything… now I want one! Lol 😂
I like to think that the inconsistent sizes has to do with the different Forge Worlds producing titans to their own specifications. Canonically, the Lucifer Class Warlord Titan model from Epic 40k is in scale with the Mars Pattern Warlord Titan from Epic 30k because, while both are supposed to be the same machine, due to different design philosophies and resource availabilities, they won't end up being the same size.
So, a rich Forge World like Mars could ABSOLUTELY produce kilometer tall Imperators. But they're certainly few and far between.
Speaking only about Emperor class titans, there are at best a literall hand full of them known to exist in M41, so I have no clue as to how much their different places of origin might play a role.
Talking Titans in general tho, I like the idea of different patterns resulting in different sizes for the same designation.
Then you get into the debacle of the STCs. They’re not easy to modify and they’re literally the blueprint.
Some work in centimetres, some in inches 😅
@@Daedricbob The American Forge Worlds are renown for their Titans, but nobody trusts them for anything else as the only other time they were contracted to make something, the Bolters produced were far too large for the Space Marines who commissioned them.
‘My lord, the specifications said 120”’
‘I MEANT CENTIMETERS NOT INCHES!’
I see no problem with 10km tall titans overcoming the impossibility of their design by not sinking into the ground or other circumstances that would happen in reality. They are God machines after all. If orcs can make a giant pile of garbage fly, why can't the omnissiah make a titan walk.
Joe Ogryn: “Don’t mattah! BIG IS BIG!”
Momma always said "Big Iz Gud"
I'm sorry, but when I heard "It's 22 dudes long." My brain just responded with, "Us Americans really will use anything but the metric system."
There is likely a wide variety of heights for different types of titans, and also, a lot of the lore does just show you the titans from the perspective of some individual who will not have an objective perspective on their size. However, if you actually take realism into account on size, and how space marines are capable of being inside of one, we are looking at an emperor class being at least being 100m's.
@SordidusFellatioeven at that old Rita it’s are a bastard of a dark age titan . So who know with darkage tech what the upper limit would be for a Titan .
@SordidusFellatioThey have to be a minimum internal volume for the voidship grade components, which makes the idea that an Imperator is 50m to the head laughable.
I like my Titans big and I cannot lie.
Heretics will deny
When a tech priest walks in with a bionic waist and speaks binary in your face you get sprung.
"a tasteful amount of descriptive adjectives"
that is a degree of understatement worthy of an Englishman
i distinctively remember reading how emperor titans were big enough to house multiple companies worth of soldiers in their legs, as garrisons, as they walked into battle.
and iirc its like roughly 100~250 ppl per company...
This! So much this. That is one of my core 40k memories, and anyone telling me otherwise is inherently wrong.
@@DackelDelayplease don't say tsmt unironically lol
And? It’s never stated they had leg room
What a rough ride
The Statue of Liberty trounces an Imperator in height, clocking in at 93 meters compared to the Titan's pitiful 40 meters. I simply refuse to acknowledge this. Imperators can leap frog over the Statue of Liberty, cry about it.
At only 40 meters tall you wouldn't be able to actually use the doors mounted in their lower legs. That gives us some scale, those are for mortal infantry. At a 40m height the hipjoints are probably impassable too, so now there's no foot access to upper decks
Some dirty maths gave me 70m as the minimum height for the imperator while making the leg bastions workable for standard humans
Make the Emperor Titan have 300 metres in height, so it can act like a space marine chapter-house.
That would be cool
“We struck a blow to the shoulder and felt victory as it collapsed, then we realized that was not debris spilling down with the arm. It was pissed off space marines in the dozens. We knew we could not run fast enough to escape.” - Daemons their first “successful” attack on the machine
to me, the sizes of Titans follow this:
Warhound: 30-35 Meters
Reavers: 40-45 Meters
Warbringer Nemesis: 60-70 Meters
Warlord Titan: 100-150 Meters
Warmaster Titan: 200-250 Meters
Emperor Titans: 1,0-1,5 Kilometers
I like the more "realistic" scale for Titans. That being said, just imagining the smaller ones like a Reaver walking past your house and looking down at you on the third floor would be quite an awe-inspiring sight.
how is the smaller scale more "realistic" ? given 40k lore and the state of technology if anything the larger size estimates are the more realistic ones especially given the descriptions of entire battles taking place on top of emperor class titans.
@@KT-pv3kl High silhouettes for ground combat vehicles are always a negative. There's a reason tanks aim for low profile. Big and tall just makes it easier for people to shoot. You can argue technology blah blah blah, but nothing changes the fact that the higher a target the more fire it takes that it can't answer.
@@QisforQadim which is entirely irrelevant for titans thanks to their void shields. but thank you for trying to make an argument.
@@KT-pv3klbecause they have to be transported via ship and landed and then recovered from planet to planet for deployment.
The smaller estimates logistically make way more sense, even with the sizes of 40k ships
@@seandlax9 you just defeated your own argument by mentioning the absurd sizes of 40k ships. Adeptus Mechanicus lifter Barges are several kilometers long and can easily store SEVERAL titan legions at the same time, all the while being capable of landing and liftoff on pretty much any planet.
plus the imperium doesnt do "sensible logistics" it drops cathedrals onto peoples heads to make a point!
think of our own history for a second here and you will see how weak your own argument is. "stones need to be transported via ship using smaller stones to build the great pyramids make way more sense logistically"
I agree with you with regard to the table game scale influence on the scale of titans. However, as a lore nerd and as a mech addict - in my mind an emperor titan is the kind of scale where astartes can easily traverse the internal corridors and ladders of its legs without being noticed. With a city block of a citadel on its back. Massive. Gigantic. Head in the clouds and all. The tread of it shaking the earth and breaking the minds of even combat hardened astra militarum
The idea of tians walking around dwarfing everything else has always been awesome, I do like the idea that they are more realistically sized and could walk through a city and use buildings as cover.
I feel like Knights would be the city traversing monsters. Some mining excavators that we have In our current world are bigger than that, so I could definitely see Titans 40,000yrs from now being legit skyscraper sized
@@AaronBeSpeedy Absolutely agree.Although no reason a scout titan would not be able to use your appartment complex (or designated hab zone if you prefer) for cover. For a Warlord you might need a bigger bush tho, not to mention Emperor titans ;)
@@DackelDelay I was just thinking about this, and realized that "Scout" doesnt neccesarily mean "Stealthy" 😂 I think that Titans would only be used as scouts in situations where the enemy forces couldnt deploy enough firepower (or altogether lacked the firepower) to assault the Titan in any meaningful way. Titans of any size/designation are too valuable to risk on scouting missions where they wouldn't have the full weight of their friendly forces available to reinforce them. Just my thoughts though
@@AaronBeSpeedy >I think that Titans would only be used as scouts in situations where the enemy forces couldnt deploy enough firepower (or altogether lacked the firepower) to assault the Titan in any meaningful way.
I THINK (its been a while since I read it) thats exactly what happens in the Forge of Mars series, where a bunch of titans were deployed in this manner; both to gather intel on a planet where there was little to no danger expected and to give the titans some fresh air (as they became restless during the long trip aboard the Speranza).
A kilometer long gun is like a small town. I absolutely love it.
you mention the nightlords taking a titan, there is also a bit in the word bearers series where they launch an infantry ambush on an imperator (or was it a warlord, been years since I last read it), and really do a number on it.
Imperator class size wise, I like the depiction in titanicus by Dan Abnett:
"The super-heavy Imperator was so massive that the Manifold tracks made it look like part of the hive’s vast structure, detached and moving of its own volition."
and where it takes a significant number of warlords and other titans (dozens) linking to pierce the shielding of a chaos imperator. Bearing in mind dozens of titans are firing on it, and it's shields are down I'll end on this quote:
"Augmenautus Rex took ten whole minutes to die. Serial bombardment felled its towers and thorned minarets, shattered its black glass windows and exploded its crenellated battlements. Ablaze, a ghastly, staggering behemoth sheeting white-hot flame and noxious black smoke, it kept firing, and took two more forge-loyal engines down with it."
The TLDR answer, as with everything in 40K, Titans are as large as the story needs them to be. That's the key difference between Warhammer and any other Sci-Fi universe, does a lasgun have recoil? It does if the story needs them to have recoil. How many Space Marines died at Cadia? As many as the story required. How many people escaped Cadia? As many as the story requires. How many Eldar are left in the galaxy? As many as the story requires. How poweful is the Emperor?
As powerful as the story requires Him to be.
There is a genre out there called Science-fantasy, and what you are describing is one of the biggest ways to know when you are dealing with such. Universal consistent changing dependent on the situation, that is some fantasy narrative right there. It isn't just the presence of magic either, though that quickly changes constants, but flexibility with the physical laws themselves that marks fantasy.
So what is it:
Will a las gun go through a modern tank, or is it stopped by wet paper?
Depends which wizard is writing the story today!
So basically gw doesn't give a wet fart about consistency and throws shit at the wall hoping it sticks
@slimjim877 Not exactly incorrect, GW doesn't care too much about consistency, because the universe was never created to be consistent, it was created to give people a chance to build their own armies, tell their own stories.
That's what sets Warhammer aside from, say, Star Wars or Dune, which have exact answers to questions. In Warhammer, the questions are the point, to guide you to where you want to tell the story. That makes some people butthurt, but that's because they came into the hobby with wrong expectations.
This is not actually a good policy. When the reader is reading some dramatic scene, when they suddenly say "Hey, didn't lasguns/power armor/etc. work *completely differently* in that other story I read last week?" That moment of realization yanks you out of the narrative and reminds you that you're just reading a story.
I will never understand this sense of brazen contempt for the concept of immersion, to the point that "my immersion" has become a punchline.
@@dark7element And you're definitely entitled to that opinion, I'm just saying, it's funny that people are complaining about that NOW, when that's how Warhammer has worked even in the days of Rogue Trader. This is not new, and if it's annoying you now, Warhammer might not be the IP for you, or you can focus on the parts of the Lore that fit your preferred viewpoint and stick to those.
My gead cannon goes like this:
Emperor class: 100-150m (sky scraper size but believable enough for something called a god machine and the strongest ground based imperial weapon)
Warlord:60-80 (smaller then the emperor class but still big enough to demolish buildings)
Reaver:40-50(maybe even smaller but believable enough
Warhound: 10-20 or so (the whole idea of a scout titan is a bit ridiculous but 20 m is small enough to be hidden in an urban environment or behind hills)
this!
"Emperor class: 100-150m (sky scraper size but believable enough for something called a god machine and the strongest ground based imperial weapon)" what kind of skyscrapers are you living with. big ben is 96m tall. An imperator should be the size depicted in the grand art, Notre-Dame d'Amiens is 113 m tall and something the size of that should be on its back so including the cathedral the thing should be atleast 500 meters tall ( which would still make it shorter than One World Trade Center which is 541m tall) in a world where buildings go multiple kilometers in every direction. "Warlord:60-80 (smaller then the emperor class but still big enough to demolish buildings)" it should be in 250-300 atleast again, a lot shorter than the imperator but still massive. Demolished buildings in 40k should be the size of city blocks according to lore. Reavers about 100m and scouts and that 30-40 range.
This seems right
@@firmak2This! If an Emperor titian is large enough to be able to deploy tanks from it's feet and "Level entire citys" singlehandedly it should be large enough to see coming for at least a day ahead and just build dread in those people!
@@firmak2 Personally I think you're right about the Emperor's size estimations, however for the Warlord and below classes the smaller estimations kind of make more sense as they are relatively mass produced. Nothing wrong with having the smaller titans in range of 15-100m, then a lot of nothing, and then Emperors (which are few and far between) as truely massive engines.
You briefly losing your shit over the agony of transporting your miniatures was so funny and relatable.
Personnaly I prefer to just think of them as being hundreds of meters tall and that GW did this in the lore just for the scale to be managable for table game. It makes no sense to me that peak humanity could build things not even the size of today warships... The Yamato (WW2) ship had 20 meters long artillery pieces... Also trying to apply today material knowledge and physics to a fictionnal humanity that conquered the galaxy is just strange when anti gravity things would be needed for everything. I would prefer if GW had stick with unbelievable sized warmachines and just applied a reduced scale to them for the table game...
Hear hear, I mean those hulking machines are already carrying reality defying weapons like plasma cannons anyway so realism can be stretched out a little bit more. And we've terraformed entire planets and populated them with colossal cities. If the largest 40k titans are described as having enough firepower to take on whole continents, then the image of them parting the clouds and walking through mountain ranges fit the role more than smaller machines that can't even stand up to Godzilla in scale.
So much this. Throw in a bunch of Unobtainium armour and future-scifi-fusion-driven pistons and you got yourself a titan.
Granted, the physics of soil stability should not change from real life now to fictional M41, so mobility certainly would an issue; however Emperor class titans are stated to be more of a mobile command post with enormous amounts of void shields, long ranged artilleries as offensive weapons and short ranged AA capeblilities as well as housing deployable ground troupes for close combat. So this would put emperor titans of about 300-500m (~1/4 mile) in "reasonable" territory or at least at a point where not too much suspension of disbelief is required. Also it would make the cathedral's size on their backs match today's real cathedrals (100-150m ish in height), overall enhancing realism and immersion.
Also I don't really see why it would be impossible for smaller titans to exist; scout titans "just" a few stories tall don't contradict the existance of truely massive war engines. The only limiting factor I see is interplanetary transport, i.e. ship size. (Else why build a titan when a fortress would do?) So we are looking at something that would occupy a reasonable portion of a ship in the high single to low double digit kilometer range. That's length tho, no height.
So yea, for my headcancon Emperor titans are about 300m tall.
10:56 Don't forget the titan can be quite far away, meaning everything is much smaller looking in the photo, but way bigger in measurement
As long as the Titans are As big as a City which is often claimed and the reason I thought they were cool in the first place and at lthe very least they have to be much bigger than any mech from Mechwarrior. I am happy.
If you take a 2,5 story tall one family house and put it on legs as tall as a grown male giraffe you got yourself a scout. Our perception of how big something is, is often messed up, because when we walk 70m turn around and look back to our starting point we think "pff, thats pathetic" but when we are next to a 20m wave we shit our pants and are awestruck for the rest of our lives
Titan at 14:19 looks like hes smoking a mega sized cigar.
It totally does.
Wes, I'm starting to appreciate your videos more and more. The research you put into making them is getting to Luetin-levels and it shows. I've read some 50+ 40k books and yet the videos are still both entertaining and "educational" (lol XD)
Nice job!
"22 dudes long"
Hearty chuckle from that one, thank you.
That’s heretic math… it reeks of the foul unreality of the Immaterium!
He must redact himself, before he attracts the attention of the Ordo Calculus
I remember using titans in the epic scale 'Space Marine' game that came out before 40K
One of the best games they ever released 👍
At 10 minutes I think you misunderstood the intention of that meme. It didn’t say the canon was 130 feet long, it meant that “in cannon they are 130 feet tall” not that they had 130 foot long cannons 😉
But, as always, I love the video! Thank you!
Yeah, I realize now that I misread the original post. I'll probably make a joke out of it in my next video
@@weshammer that’s why you’re the man! 😁
I would like to believe that emperor class is not a specific size, but just a way of calling anything larger than a warlord or warmaster titan. My headcanon is that since titans are so rare and resource expensive, the smallest of them have well defined patterns like warhound etc, which explains why they can still be produced in the current setting, but the largest of them are essentially pre great crusade relics, kind of unique, custom, one-off specimens (think gloriana class battleships) whose size can vary anywhere between the reported numbers 50-150m or possibly more for destroyed/lost/forgotten ones. I'm not basing this on anything, this is just what would make most sense to me and what I would enjoy believing.
I think they could easily be like 100-300 Meters tall, just because its cool. And for the Problem of the bipedal movement, nothing stops GW from stating These God-Machines use some tech from the dark age with ant-Gravity. We have so many New hover-Tanks of the Space-Marines, Mankind in 20k would be able to Create something like this. This would result in Not mutch weight pressing on the ground and it would also help against tipping over. If you can create Giant Cathedrals flying in Space, you can also make some smaller ones hovering on two legs
Ya just make the best 40k lore vids, Wes. Thanks for all the quality videos and the amount of effort you must be putting into them.
You dig giant robots!
I dig giant robots!
We dig giant robots!
Chicks dig giant robots!
As a chick I can confirm. Anyone who doesn't is just a filthy heretic.
There’s a role playing, table top games, hobby store near where I live. The owner has a (verified by GW) million point army with a (GW authorized) emperor class titan that is at scale (using Epic as the measurements for comparison) but was home made by him but was legally allowed and used in GW tournaments many many many years ago. GW saw it and loved it and was one of the few home built game miniatures (I’d you could call it a miniature) allowed and signed off as legal (at that time) as a playable miniature. The thing stands around the height of a child. It now sits in a case behind flags with the rear of his space marine army with the GW records and other awards on display.
People always ask how big an imperator class is, but never asks how the imperator class titan is. 😂😂
I do hope they're ok. 😂
Lol now I want a scene in a book where a titan’s machine spirit refuses to wake up and go into battle because he’s sad 😂
I bet they are always pissed off
We made the Statue of Liberty, I refuse to believe that a warlord isn’t at least as tall as that.
I like how the pilots are wired into the Titan so its systems are like an extension of the pilot's nervous system.
Another fantastic video by Weshammer! Your content never fails to impress and entertain. Keep up the great work! I especially can’t wait for the day you do a deep dive on Konrad Curze and the Night Lords!
10:01 i believe you confused "canon height" as in "the height of the Titan in 40k canon" with "cannon height" as in the barrel length of the cannon
Holy cow! Your titan is gigantic! GIGANTIC! Your titan is literally the biggest thing in the tri-galaxy area! It’s bigger than a small elephant! It’s bigger than a tree a big ol’ tree! Lots of cannons on your titan! You must wake up every day and thank the good emperor above. You’re truly blessed. Congrats.
I think 200m for imperator, 140-150 for warlord, 100-120 for reaver, 50-60 for warhound and 25-35 for knights would work for me personally
I'm just going to point out that your preferred knight height is roughly between 80-115 feet tall
@@unnamedenemy9 Why would you care about feet units though? We're not Hobbits.
@@CidVeldoril it's not about the units, it's about just *how stupidly massive* that is and how it doesn't jive with literally any depiction of knights. I'm just pretty sure that this guy doesn't actually understand how long a meter is.
I think a knight being roughly 30-45ft tall would make sense. A lot of the trees in my area are about that tall and Knights being as tall as trees makes sense in my head. I could see something that size still having fluid, natural looking movements
@unnamedenemy9 so you automatically result to insults because I commented on what I think the sizes should be? It's not that deep bro...go outside, touch some grass, get laid or something 🤔
I've been a Mechwarrior fan much longer than a 40k fan, so I had to compare. I love that even the scout titan is larger than a Mechwarrior assault mech, the heaviest class. It's really in line with the Imperium as a whole. Like sometimes they come to a world and fight people in power armour, but those people are dwarfed by the Astartes.🤣
WesHammer never fails to impregnate me with cualety content.
For reference, the statue of liberty is 305' (93m).
an emperor-class titan even with the cathedral being shorter is ridiculous.
for battles, sure, current scale is good. for lore, they should absolutely be 200m tall.
Rule of cool. GW is making a mistake by not making them impossibly massive in the lore. They need throw out realistic sizes and just ebrace how ridiculous we want it to be.
It would make more sense for the Titan to be quadrupedal, I think it would distribute the weight better
Yeah to be completely honest the reason I got into Warhammer was because of titans though back then you could only get a warhound Titan which I got from forge world itself went there on my birthday and brought it there which was the one of the best thing's ever now I have a chaos reaver Titan and I have a warlord titan which is the pride and joy of my collection
Bro you have mo titans mo problems
I look back fondly on looking up heights of buildings I know and comparing them to the stated sizes of titans, to be able to visualise it
"Humans are a rarity in that we walk on two legs"
All of birds: Excuse me? XD
At 4:50 - 469 ft. puts an Emperor Class Titan taller than Kingda Ka, the world's largest Roller Coaster, which is 456 ft. tall.
Narrative inconsistencies?
From James Workshop?
The Hell, you say.
A VR oriented 40k game based on titan combat would be incredible since it would provide a genuine sense of scale for how big even a 30M titan is let alone the 100+ of an imperator class
A Warlord is bigger than a Jaeger from Pacific Rim, and no amount of explanation can change that.
40K hints at supersuperheavy vehicles like the Leviathan command fortress and rolling cities. I'd love to see more on those things. Heck, I wish GW would show us more of Medusa, where apparently every city is a enormous vehicle.
Two things. First, love your stuff and I can't wait for you to do an apothecary deep dive. Second, I really like the Knights and Titians and would love Games Workshop let someone make a video game where you could pilot them and the Titans from other factions including Tyranid bio titans.
So reskinned Battletech?
Space trucker's, "I got a emperor sized load. But, big Shirley can haul it"
40K: we have giant stompy robots.
BIONICLE: That’s cute
Transformers: Lol.
Gurren Lagann: Amateurs
Demonbane: Pathetic.
BASED AND GIANT ROBOT SCHMEX PILLED for mentioning DemonBane.
Pacific rim: **Pacific.Rim.Theme.mp4 intensifies**
"Gurren Lagann: Amateurs" lets be real here nothing ever matched gurren laggan in size.
Gurren Lagann got big enough to throw galaxies around. I'm pretty sure they're the biggest in scale.
Now you've mentioned Transformers, I really want to see how well an Imperator titan would do against Metroplex or Fort Max...
Titans have battlements with scitarii and point defense to defend from troop incursions like that. Additionally, although you can make a " battalion of tanks" instead of a titan, the titan fills the role of a god "machine" through shock and awe. Terrans were not the only race with titans, the eldar and orcs have their versions, so, these terran titans fill a role that was required to counter xenos threats.
They're 75 metres for the Imperator. The tallest is 100 metres, which is the Castigator, the father of all Titans, allegedly. Abominatus is an exception.
remember, every number in 40k times 10. So tallest is 1000 meters...
@@onlymatus5420rrrrriiiiggghhhttttt..…
@@onlymatus5420 Me when the 10 emperors make 200 primarchs
@@onlymatus5420 Cadians are 60 feet tall...
@@averageeughenjoyer6429 imagine 10 warmasters taking 90 primarchs and besieging 10 imperial palaces...
9:58 - Canon height, not cannon height. They're saying the entire titan is a little over 130 feet tall, not the weapons. As in, 'canonically'.
Yeah I realize that after posting, I'm stupid 😅
Titan heights make so sense. That is the entire point of WH40k nothing about it makes sense. I love it for that.
One of my favorite pieces of 40k artwork is the one with the lines of Vostroyan Firstborn going back into the distance and you see two Lucius Warlords that have to be over 500 meters tall walking behind them.
My first introduction to 40K was Adeptus Mechanicius, where you got a bunch of beetle Warlord Titans and I was hooked. For me, one of the main draws was always big stompy robots.
Based on what the author for the Infinite and the Divine said about the speeds and heights in that book. Writers for GW are often given pretty tight due dates with limited extensions, so rarely is it viable to do a lot of surplus research. It is more important that sizes feel big and speeds feel fast than the actual exact measurements being any of those things.
Imperator titan: existing
Wes: "damn boy!! He THIICCC!!!"
Speaking of size, you should cover the Arc Mechanicus. Ships so big, that they can function as forgeworlds by themselves, and need teleportariums to ensure that the crew can be in their assigned stations. At least that's how they are described in the "Forges of Mars" trilogy.
I've always loved the idea that they deploy Emperor class Titans in their own drop-pod. You survive the cataclysmic impact of that drop-pod, just to face what's inside!!
Someone's going to have a bad day! :D
3:10 to skip advertisement
The photo measurement was a good idea. But I think you may have forgotten about the perspective between the person you used and the barrel of the fun.
You would need to know the distance first.
Not sure if someone has said that if they have sorry haha.
But still good idea.
I would love the table top version to just be the feet.
And the "attacks" are more like calling in a strike on an location.
Like bringing a battleship to a gun fight.
And make the inside of the feet into something you could store units in for transport.
I started 40k playing Epic and I had multiple titans including the emperor (all converted to chaos of course because BAH who wants to worship a horrible dead guy on a gold toilet when you have real gods to choose from) and the emperor was approximately one chubby heavily armed statue of liberty tall, side note lady liberty was originally stationed there to fight off the infestation of stay puffs and kongs.
Could you imagine being up in those cathedrals while the thing is walking. Just imagine the whiplash! Those things have gotta have some serious inertial dampeners!
The battleships are incredible in their size. I wanted to build a 40k-scale battleship but I realized it would be the size of a school bus…
I love chaos Titans, their absolutely terrifying
Titans are my favorite! I also thought they were way way bigger but yeah you make a great point that they can’t really be any bigger for the actual board game. Even still one of those in real life would be insane!
I always thought that honestly there is a lot of varients of the big ones , and that some of the more ancient ones are way bigger since Big E would have ordered their construction or it was the Mechanicus had them for the big wars on Mars . So a realistic way for them to think of could be the Mechanicus hides the truly big ones to bring out only when they truly need them. And the more realistically constructed ones are in the Legions
All I’m gunna say is Simon Whistler is a goat, fun seeing you reference his video. Great work man love the content!
I don't care what the official books say, imperator titan are, and will always be, one mile tall to me.
the "scale" in the tabletop is actually progressive or rather "regressive" infantry is scaled in 32mm (formerly 28) but all larger models are usually in smaller scale meaning tanks like the rhino are actually much larger than the model suggests. this trend progresses even further for superheavy tanks and flyers as well as titans. the bigger the vehicle the smaller the scale to make it practical for tabletop usage.
this trend holds also true for other GW games like Battlefleet Gothic where we have far more references for the lore accurate size of spaceships. when comparing them to the tabletop minis we can observe that the larger the ship the smaller the model scale.
I see it as like trying to powerscale luke from star wars legends.
You can take him as he is when he moved a black hole. Or how he is when he almost passes out trying to make one ship illusion, or when he made an entire fleet of illusionary ships with ease.
All of these are chronological btw so he is supposed to be getter stronger as this goes on but the power he displays even in the same book series can vary drastically
(Edit) FREEDOM FRACTIONS FOREVER MY AMERICAN BROTHER
Got a 7 feet Titan ? You wear the Titan as a suit as you go the 40k convention.
A few months ago I decided to sculpt "the Oak of ages" from Warhammer fantasy as a table top terrain piece. I ended up making a 75cm high tree that would dominate your average gaming table. I then realised that this would only represent a 45m high tree - vastly smaller than the mountain sezed tree of warhammer lore. Yet as far as table top pieces go, I don't want anything bigger for reasons of practicality. Titans run into the same issue.
I've actually got a small ttrpg idea cooking of a fight through a imperator titan, from the feet up through the entire structure. Obviously there's a shit ton too work out using the old deathwatch as a base but I think it has promise
I liked the absurdity of the Imperator Titans being massive, multi thousand foot tall war machines. It just feels right.
"Freedom units" I love it! Keep up the great work @weshammer
Let's also not forget how every Titan is a copy of a copy and are becoming more and more inferior.
As the Castigator Titan in the Grey Knights omnibus said;
"Yes, I was created in a time even I cannot recall and which has been lost to your Imperium. From the historical records on Chaeroneia, I could piece together nothing but legends and guesswork about the Golden Age, the time you call the Dark Age of Technology. There I was made, so that in this future your people could build this machine. But in the wars that followed, I was lost. The information I contained was used to create inferior copies, built too quickly and modified too heavily. When I was lost, copies were made of these inferior reflections in turn, so that the form of the Titan became crude and unworthy. I was the first Titan and the god-machines that strike your kind with awe are all pale shadows of me. I was lost, for men are ignorant and made war on one another until no one was left alive who knew where I was hidden. I stayed lost for thousands of years."
Biggest issue is weight because there were real world tanks designed so heavy that they were actually useless. Then you need the magic of void shields to keep a target that large from being such an easy target that Orks could hit it. It's a bit like all the Gundam series where you have to throw science out the window for something that just looks cool.
I just love the one scene from the first book in WB trilogy, the Dark Apostle. Where there are "buried" and shut down WB terminators in the cliffside of the canyon, ambushing the titan walking trough. As they fight their way trough it´s leg to disable it... very cool action in very cool book! Probabyl my favourite in the trilogy.
3,000 DOLLARS!? I was not prepared for that, holy Emperor
Best idea is work out the number of crew members and estimate what size the head would need to be to accommodate the command team. The Imperator's head would probably be 2 or 3 stories high.
I'm glad you mentioned it because a Titan the size of a mountain would sink into the ground.
Okay so I am a 40k fan but I would like to ask....make a video of chaos lords no matter the tides.... but make a video of some chaos gods working together. Love your video dude
the Eisenhorn collection describes them pretty well in one section.
Imagine the biggest 50meter titan class pride of the warhammer40k getting stepped on or punted like a toy by a 300+ meter Godzilla.
They could definitely do a 7ft tall model for it. They'd just have to set up cons centered around like a game board arena. The rules would be different probably and each unit would have to represent an entire kill team. But they could start selling killteam minis to get people invest on playing at the convention. Might be able to make it something like an E-sport. That'd be fun. They'd have to provide the titan models though
For reference. Cellphone towers in the US are between 100 and 500 feet tall. Broadcast towers for TV/Radio can be upwards of 2,000 - 2,500 feet tall. Depending on the type of tower and where you are.
Titans get 4 to 6 Void shields, when an Astartes Battlebarge has only 3. This gives them an approximate size and power like a 40k battleship. Add to this the fact they are Dark Age machines which presumably fought against the Men of Iron, and things become a bit simpler. You can make Titans as big and as heavy as you want, when you include anti-grav plates to help them manage their mass, and they won't sink into the ground.
We also know that humanity in 40k can build spires which can rise outside the atmosphere, because adamantium is just that strong. A Titan at 8 to 10 kms tall is not a problem.