I like the idea of being able to set your guns default round before going into raid. I’ve always thought adding a longer shooting range in the hideout and the ability to manually adjust your scopes zero would be fun. This way I could go into the range before raid and essentially set my rifle up to be accurate at the range I want. This could even be worked into weapon presets so that once I’ve done it I could easily reapply the same zero setup to a similar build in the future.
i find that this will practically overcomplicate the process of preparing a kit for a raid, rather than simplifying it by adding more kits... when Veritas took a look at this problem in the past, one of his suggestions was making the zeroing not based on range but on power of the scope, 1 power, 2 power, 3power etc... which would eliminate the need to have to manually assign a zeroing round. regardless, the fact that it works like this instead of automatically adjusting it based on the ammo used is kind of... overcomplicating an issue that affects everyone. Great feedback though, i think it could bring more use to the firing range (and they could add an upgrade that extends the range too)
too much shit to do before each gameplay round and a major waste of time. The zeroing should fix itself for whatever round you choose - to make shit way more complicated is not a good thing for any game, and in Tarkov to have to do such stupid shit before play removes the fun factor 100%
If you really dont want to make anything special, then gun should be zeroed into whatever round you have in chamber or top of magazine if chamber is empty when you go into raid.
4:36 Very clever solution indeed! 5:14 There's nothing particularly strange with it: the barrel is ported along its way to be used with suppressor, so it vents the powder gases early, just as the bullet passes the holes (30 in total). 8:08 It's a pity that the simulator doesn't take numerical inputs sometimes, at least for me.
I more meant strange in that you see PBP curving up over range! When I came to test it as you can see in the video it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be... Dare I even say its usable now after the trajectory changes?
The way they handled the MP5SD is actually quite realistic (if I'm understanding the Tarkov implementation correctly)-- the real MP5SD has a bunch of holes drilled in the barrel at the base of the suppressor that vent propellent gases into expansion chambers in order to reduce the muzzle velocity of the gun and turn normal supersonic 9mm rounds into subsonics. You don't load subsonic ammo into an MP5SD: the gun does it for you.
@@albundy7459 Every single part of what you said is incorrect. Go read literally any article about the technical details of this gun. From the wikipedia article: "In 1974, H&K initiated design work on a sound-suppressed variant of the MP5, designated the MP5SD (SD-Schalldämpfer, German for "sound suppressor"), which features an integral but detachable aluminium sound suppressor and a lightweight bolt. The weapon's 146 mm (5.7 in) barrel has 30 2.5 mm (0.1 in) ports drilled forward of the chamber through which escaping gases are diverted to the surrounding sealed tubular casing that is screwed onto threading on the barrel's external surface just prior to the ported segment. The suppressor itself is divided into two stages; the initial segment surrounding the ported barrel serves as an expansion chamber for the propellant gases, reducing gas pressure to slow down the acceleration of the projectile. The second, decompression stage occupies the remaining length of the suppressor tube and contains a stamped metal helix separator with several compartments which increase the gas volume and decrease its temperature, deflecting the gases as they exit the muzzle, so muffling the exit report. The bullet leaves the muzzle at subsonic velocity, so it does not generate a sonic shock wave in flight. As a result of reducing the barrel's length and venting propellant gases into the suppressor, the bullet's muzzle velocity was lowered anywhere from 16% to 26% (depending on the ammunition used) while maintaining the weapon's automation and reliability. The weapon was designed to be used with standard supersonic ammunition with the suppressor on at all times.[17]"
@@ganthrithor if you don’t catch enough gas it will go faster than the round and knock it out of balance as it exits the barrel. You need a heavier bullet to drop the speed. Catching the gas ensures that. The round design has to accommodate what it’s being fired out of. It takes 2 to tango.
What brought me to this video is I just now started messing with range finders to try and get shooter born in heaven quest done. What I've seen is that on the SV98 using LPS (default for this gun) I'd sit in the treeline on Woods and flag a PMC in Emercom Camp at exactly 150 yards, I mean exact. I'd then adjust my zero to 150 and perfectly time a headshot where they are not moving and looting something, and the shot just misses. It goes right over their head otherwise it'd be a neck/thorax shot if low. I waited and did it again, same exact issue. My buddies essentially said zeroing is broken and don't ever use it, instead just use the rangefinder to make shots at several distances at a wall or something and memorize your holds with that gun. I don't get how they could fuck something up that is so simple.
@@Gigabeef I'm putting my tin foil hat on for this, but i'm convinced that BSG has some parameters setup so that the game identifies if you want to do some long range practice in offline mode and then proceeds to cuck you with terrible weather visibility . Got so frustrated about this I tested it for a couple hours, doing 10 min offline raids with short range weapons and low magnification scopes vs long range weapons with higher magnification scopes. Almost always got fog or rain when I had something with a 4x or greater on the long range maps (Reserve/Lighthouse). The frequency of which the offline raid had clear weather I was better off doing an actual PMC raid, which with that sudden realization basically convinced me BSG designed it this way.
This explains a lot for me, I switched to US rounds yesterday as I saw a video about it being the new meta, and I was using a SKS with a PSO and I hot NOTHING! I was so frustrated 🥴
Thank you, I have just been using default ammo vs ammo used velocity in my thought process and didn't think about coefficient or use the simulate function of tarkov ballistics. As someone who regularly takes 400-600m shots with specific guns this should really help me dial in my dope tables for my "i'm bored lets see if I can do this" sniping raids. Unfortunately now I have several hours of homework to do on the ballistics site and in offline raids to min max with the coefficient variable for ammo/gun combos lol.... long live the T5000 and SV98 gaming!
It’d be cool if when we load into a raid the pmc zero gun to the chambered round by default.. or if they want to make it expert something You can do in the hideout. Meanwhile scavs are just using whatever they got setup to some default target round
Hard disagree for the first idea. Sometimes I'll have my first few rounds be good AP but then use something else after that. I'd prefer to be zeroed for the latter.
Allow people to adjust zero before entering this is more or less realistic so not much change needs to be made. Iron Sights should always be adjustable and depending on the scope or optic it should adjustable on the fly or before going into the zone depending.
Alternative they can let us set the scope offset entirely manually in some amount of moa increments, so while the scopes come in default calibre zero, you can adjust them +/- based on your own settings. Which also means it will deincentivise using other people's guns as you just don't know what zero they may have set it.
What a thorough, technical, and helpful video. Thanks for this. I'm stunned by the level of detail and physics-based realism that they've put into this game. Amazing
I'd love to see a more freeform zero system. You should be able to set the zero on a sight to a specific velocity. This accounts not only for differences between rounds but also between attachments and barrels, or the system could go full arma ace and have you adjust a sight by clicks instead of ranges
clicks actually translate into a given range, each sight would be different yes, but EFT's system allows the devs not to have to adjust the states on each individual sight corresponding with each individual different round. You can see the same thing with Archery sights that "swing" and allow the archer to be accurate at 10 yards and out to 150, without having to do anything but "add or remove a couple clicks" once its "sight tape" is set to the proper arrow specs and such (the exact same as you would with a rounds ballistics)
Man. I remember my first wipe, I really took to sniping and trough trial and error me and my friend put together a small notebook of distances from different sniping spots to different spots (For example Chupa chups on reserve to the trainyard, Sniper rock to dickhead rock etc...) but goddamn this vid was informative!
Maybe have advanced zeroing be a feature that is unlocked in the workbench once you unlock the shooting range Like in the Weapon customization screen, the one you unlock with Workbench 1, have it add a little dropdown for the base zero round of the weapon once the shooting range is built.
This puts quite a bit into perspective. I tried shooting someone the other day with the VPO-215. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how I didn't get a headshot at the time. Now I realize it could be because I was using Geksa instead of the EKO. I probably hit them in the armor. Thanks for getting this info out there! I'll definitely be keeping it in mind from now on.
If they dont do calibration one way would be to auto zero with the first round chambered or in the chamber at the start of the match to avoid the reticle jumping
they could add a dope station to hideout or workbench with a little chart with all the ammo stats and you can zero your scope before raid, could be fun little detail
Although I never noticed this or felt like these were a problem to me, it’s still awesome to learn about and that I should keep an eye out. Thank you very much!
almost every optic ive used irl has 1MOA BDC's as the coarses adjustment not including distance compensation you could easily add a key to adjust the BDC for different ammo types
BSG should implement a system to go to your hideout and zero your weapon for the primary rounds you will be using for that raid. It would not be difficult to code and make players much happier. Just my opinion. Thank you for sharing the information and making it understandable.
@@edh9746 You're right. I don't know coding. So explain why it would be difficult. It seems counter-intuitive. BSG already has a system in place for 1 round for each weapon in the game. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm truly curious.
The fact that you can no longer just look up for the best ammo and best armor like it was few years ago tells A LOT about the development. Statistics become so complicated, and have so many factors...
I've noticed this with the eotechs too. It's only when attached on ak platform rails and some others that need attachments to be put on the weapon. Like being up off the weapon or platform doesn't get zerod in automatically.
I find that in general the differences in velocities for the bullets don't make enough of a difference to actually make you miss a headshot, a target being an extra 20-30 meters away when you're ranged for 250 is probably going to make more of a difference than your bullet going moderately faster than the sights are calibrated for. Best way to get around this as a whole is to just get a general feel of the velocity for each round and guestimate your shots, or only do sniping at ranges beyond 200m with very fast rounds that have flat trajectories.
That explains so much lol, I missed so many headshots with zeroed scopes on the gornostay, I even brought the rangefinder but nothing. I feel like they should add the ability to calibrate scopes in the hideout maybe make it a calibration station. It also makes me question what is going on with NSPU-M and the AKML iron sights because both are for the akml system which was a nightfighting akm made to be used with the US rounds. You can make one in game by getting an akmn and putting the NSPU, AKML irons and the AKML flashhider on it, however if the scopes and irons are calibrated based off of the default round for the gun then that means neither the irons nor the scope actually work on the round it was made for? I also now understand why so many people simply ditch the zeroing and go by experience cause this is honestly unsuable.
Still can't believe we still have to deal with this. This is especially annoying with shotguns, which are zeroed with 7mm by default, so if using something like SF slugs for long range use, using any scope is impossible due to almost a 200m/s difference of speed.
To make it realistic, remove the zeroing for absolute values like meters. Just use a relative scale and calibrate it for the used rounds at the shooting range before the raid. EZ
One note, possibly tangential, the really high power 30mm sights are not actually variable (not as advertised) but instead static. Making it all the more odd that the high power 34mm sights are variable (as advertised).
It would be cool where instead of a selection menu you can go into a long range or offline raid and actually zero the gun to the round the way you would irl. Fire a round, see where it hits, adjust and try again. And you can do it in raid too. A rangefinder would be super handy for this since you can range 100 meters to a wall amd then know your gun is perfectly zeroed at 100 meters. It would make carrying the range finder pretty viable
Just have to be aware that the amount of "extra drop" relative to the zero is at it's worst at 200m, and gets less either side of that. But will be lower than the zeroing most of the time, so you have to shoot higher than you think
PgUp, PgDown while looking through the sight will change elevation. If you use US ammo, for example, set higher elevation, bullet drop will be compensated by the elevation.
There was a hunting game on original xbox cabelas game hunting or something (not 100 percent sure on the name but think this was it) but it had a zeroing adjuster at the fire range where you could ads and take a shot on target at 100 metres and then could adjust the guns sight up and down manually or automatically to zero the gun
Another notable example is AP slugs; They hit super high. An Elcan Specter on an MP-153 zeroed at 50 meters will actually act as if zeroed for 150 meters with AP slugs.
@@gurkenwasser6397 Its alright, since you can use the irons on the Elcan or hip fire at closer ranges. When shooting at 100-150 meters you just get used to the height adjustment.
It’s actually good that the game functions like this and in no way should the game automatically zero for something like a sub sonic round. They’re sub sonic, they were never meant for longer ranges as they drop off in damage anyways.
@@Gigabeef I can see that as an option, if we're splitting hairs between "reality" and gaming though every time we swap optics we'd have to re-zero in like the hideout or something. That would actually be pretty cool to have the option of.
I love that this is how actual zeroing works. The attention to detail from the devs is great. You seem to know your stuff. Do you shoot irl or just learn this from tarkov?
I learned from Tarkov indeed. And yes I am British, I have fired on a couple of military ranges with the SA-80, however I am by no means experienced IRL
Rounds do not go up after leaving the barrel. They are fired at an upward trajectory to reach farther distances. They fly along the path of which the barrel is pointed and gravity pulls it down from there.
"Fired up" kinda means they go up - relative to the ground. Gigabeef ain't sayin, and no one is sayin, that they go up relative to the aim of the barrel. But now you got me imagining no-spin bullets with little wings..
For sure. It's all relative though, so they do move higher than the straight line from the sight from the perspective of the shooter, but as you say it's because the barrel is pointed upwards
@gigabeef - You should do a follow up to this but within the 100m range. It's even worse that this based on my testing. The BSG provided charts aren't even close to being correct with regards to trajectory :(
Another fairly easy method would just to allow sights to adjust in set increments. You know, like in real life. Have your sight show what MOA offset it’s at, and then adjust the offset depending on distance and round. With how industrious the community is, we’d have dope sheets within the week, and you could micromanage your hold over on long range scopes. Being able to select what round you’d be zeroed for is definitely more convenient for the player, but why battlestate chose its current, clunky and shit method over either alternative kinda blows me away
now that i know that it is like that im completly fine that the rounds dont hit where you zero anymore, but maybe more accurate zeroing would be nice to go in 10 meter steps or something
I think weapons should be zeroed based on what is loaded in the chamber on deployment. Makes sense because we have a firing range, which is how I imagine lore wise we’d be zeroing anyways. So there’d be no fiddling with it in raid or any complications like that. But that’s just my opinion. I think the suggestion of the scope addition for a zero slot would be a good way to do it as well.
Oh and what’s interesting about this in particular is that because Scavs don’t spawn with a bullet in the chamber, they won’t be zeroed. Which would fit perfectly with the idea they aren’t soldiers with training, rather just people who armed themselves.
1:08 its actually a LOT easier without testing if you understand firearms and bullets IRL. Thats one of the things that makes this game so much better then SO many others. This simple factor. Yes Zeroing is broken.... but , Honestly.... How many tarkov players ACTUALLY understand what Zeroing is on a fire arm or rifle? YUP.... Thats what I thought.... Only the people who have either served in a military or actually own fire arms. I actually dotn own any but I do shoot archery, so I knew about zeroing from that. Each pin on your sight (on a multipin sight) can be set to a different yardage or distance measurement. Usually done in yards for arrows. So you know, "my fourth pin down is set to be spot on at 100 yards", for example, So I know if that deer is 120ish yards out, I need to compensate by moving that pin above my target. So that my arrow falls into place and dosnt fall short of the target.
It's adding a new system not all would like but this zeroing on the fly is crazy if you zero gun at 300m at base you can't just flick a switch to put it at 50m mid fight, let me control the zero (3clicks up 2 clicks left) and then I will be fully aware where rounds will land at range, if tarkov wants to be a realistic shooter, this is the realism we need being it's literally the shooty bit of the game that being said canted sights and dual sight systems would be much much more useful due to the fact you have cqc sight at 50 scope at 300 (one of the main reasons to carry a dual sight system in the field) how to make it more tolerable use presets once you range in your cqc m4, every time you preset build that m4 game will remember but mid fight well we need animations for scope nob Turing (a lot of holo/cqc sights need a screwdriver to adjust) or simply knowing how your round will fly
Man, I sure do hope they implement that ammo type zeroing soon (if at all)... It's really frustrating to get killed by snipers who have a lot of experience with these kinds of things just because they played more.
To be honest that is a running theme with the game. You are supposed to mostly have the odds stacked against you because there will always be someone more experienced out there in the raids, waiting for you.
@@gothicbbmelvin Just like many other games with realistic shooting, yes... However, if tarkov was to change, that one detail would be for the better, I think.
I will lead this new ballistic coefficient meta. All hail bullets with infinite range! Seriously though, I’m now curious what the highest coefficient is, and if it makes the round worth using overall just for consistency in firefights regarding damage and pen.
You can see that on here actually: tarkov-changes.com/ballistics/information Seems to be the GL, then the big fixed machine guns and then the makeshift 50 BMG slug as the first "real" round! Then all the 338 Lapua ones, Subsonic SX, PS12 for the ASh and x54r BS. Interesting list!
I don't think zeroing is that important. I have around 1000 hours in tarkov and you need a couple of them to get the hang of understanding it's ballistics in terms of bullet drop off. So unless you're specifically sitting in a sniper position targeting a specific area, or shooting 400m+ zeroing is pretty much useless and will mess up your shots more than help. After couple of hours you will have muscle memory and will instinctively know where to aim, it will take less time and be more effective.
can someone help. i have a problem with my gun. i seem to aim in and shoot where the dot is and the bullet mark is below a bit of the dot. even at close range it is like that
It's a fine solution. But don't put the zero'ing on the gun. Put it on the optic. If I zero a gun in my hideout, walk into a raid, loot a new optical sight and put it on the gun, that sight would NOT be zero'ed correctly to my gun and ammo. Having the zero'ing inherent on the gun instead of the optics is just plain wrong with how ammo, guns and optics work in real life. Edit: I know "It's a game" is an argument to make when talking realism vs fun. But BSG has shown and said that they are committed to make the guns work as realistically as they can feasibly be, so I still think my point is valid.
I'm with you buddy. I don't play tarkov cause I want simple arcade physics. I play tarkov cause it simulates a gun fight better than any other game out there. With that should come the need to do your homework if you want to survive. Just like knowing how much camber or toe you need to adjust to make a car handle better in a race sim, you should have to put in the wrench time on your guns in this gun fight sim. The harder something is, the more satisfying it is when you get it right.
The problem is that they account for the ballistics of different rounds but seemingly dont provide a way to actually zero your weapon to a round, which is terrible. I love the realism of Tarkov, but the way this is implemented, theyve handed us a realistic problem but not the realistic solution. If youre using the "wrong" round, your only option is to guesstimate, or do a lot of testing to find out what the different "zero" range increments actually mean. Im glad i came across this video, as a new player i was VERY confused when using the rangefinder and adjusting my elevation was working for 300m shots with some guns, but not at all for others. I had just assumed the elevation "clicks" were basically broken and the 50m default just auto compensated for some reason. Would be ecstatic if they actually allowed you to zero your weapon at a known distance though
the MP5 "issue" is because the SD has almost no barrel because the barrel is the suppressor. Suppressors actually cause drag on the round, with the standard mp5 has a barrel which allows the bullet to have a higher velocity
Suppressors actually act as inefficient barrels slightly increasing the muzzle velocity depending on the length of the suppressor. In game you can see this on all suppressors.
Basically, Tarkov is broken in really subtle and hard to tell ways that really undermine the overall experience. But their simulations are complex in a way you'll never notice... Cool?
Hello everyone... If you've been playing this game since 2018, you'll realize that this is not a new issue... It's almost like a 'feature' of the game...
Bro this is confusing where do aim in this game aha I'm getting so frustrated going for rouges when I adjust my aim every shot on a still target 20times before I kill it
You can thank me later for the ability to blame all misses on zeroing now!
Why am i the first comment on your
comment
Shooter born in heaven requires ballistic maths now :D
So, you are saying that the zeroing is broken, because it it just like in real life?
@@MrAlekoy I'm saying the player needs a) a better way to be told what the game is doing and b) given some functionality to change it if they want to
Whats the default round lol
I like the idea of being able to set your guns default round before going into raid. I’ve always thought adding a longer shooting range in the hideout and the ability to manually adjust your scopes zero would be fun. This way I could go into the range before raid and essentially set my rifle up to be accurate at the range I want. This could even be worked into weapon presets so that once I’ve done it I could easily reapply the same zero setup to a similar build in the future.
Someone said you should be able to drag one ammo into a special slot on the gun to automatically zero the scope to that specific round
i find that this will practically overcomplicate the process of preparing a kit for a raid, rather than simplifying it by adding more kits... when Veritas took a look at this problem in the past, one of his suggestions was making the zeroing not based on range but on power of the scope, 1 power, 2 power, 3power etc... which would eliminate the need to have to manually assign a zeroing round.
regardless, the fact that it works like this instead of automatically adjusting it based on the ammo used is kind of... overcomplicating an issue that affects everyone. Great feedback though, i think it could bring more use to the firing range (and they could add an upgrade that extends the range too)
too much shit to do before each gameplay round and a major waste of time. The zeroing should fix itself for whatever round you choose - to make shit way more complicated is not a good thing for any game, and in Tarkov to have to do such stupid shit before play removes the fun factor 100%
If you really dont want to make anything special, then gun should be zeroed into whatever round you have in chamber or top of magazine if chamber is empty when you go into raid.
I'm with you 100% Hazard.
Gameplay: You miss a shot using the VPO-215
Lore:
4:36 Very clever solution indeed!
5:14 There's nothing particularly strange with it: the barrel is ported along its way to be used with suppressor, so it vents the powder gases early, just as the bullet passes the holes (30 in total).
8:08 It's a pity that the simulator doesn't take numerical inputs sometimes, at least for me.
I more meant strange in that you see PBP curving up over range! When I came to test it as you can see in the video it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be... Dare I even say its usable now after the trajectory changes?
@@Gigabeef Ah, I see.
The way they handled the MP5SD is actually quite realistic (if I'm understanding the Tarkov implementation correctly)-- the real MP5SD has a bunch of holes drilled in the barrel at the base of the suppressor that vent propellent gases into expansion chambers in order to reduce the muzzle velocity of the gun and turn normal supersonic 9mm rounds into subsonics. You don't load subsonic ammo into an MP5SD: the gun does it for you.
Yep that part is handled well - zeroing only for PST is not great however, and the MOA on all SMGs is nerfed significantly compared to RL I believe
@@Gigabeef can confirm, have made multiple 1.8-2.1 moa 5 shot groups with my mp5 pistol
They just made the grain weight of the bullet heavier. Those holes are there to cool the hot gases. Has nothing to do with slowing down the round.
@@albundy7459 Every single part of what you said is incorrect. Go read literally any article about the technical details of this gun.
From the wikipedia article:
"In 1974, H&K initiated design work on a sound-suppressed variant of the MP5, designated the MP5SD (SD-Schalldämpfer, German for "sound suppressor"), which features an integral but detachable aluminium sound suppressor and a lightweight bolt. The weapon's 146 mm (5.7 in) barrel has 30 2.5 mm (0.1 in) ports drilled forward of the chamber through which escaping gases are diverted to the surrounding sealed tubular casing that is screwed onto threading on the barrel's external surface just prior to the ported segment. The suppressor itself is divided into two stages; the initial segment surrounding the ported barrel serves as an expansion chamber for the propellant gases, reducing gas pressure to slow down the acceleration of the projectile. The second, decompression stage occupies the remaining length of the suppressor tube and contains a stamped metal helix separator with several compartments which increase the gas volume and decrease its temperature, deflecting the gases as they exit the muzzle, so muffling the exit report. The bullet leaves the muzzle at subsonic velocity, so it does not generate a sonic shock wave in flight. As a result of reducing the barrel's length and venting propellant gases into the suppressor, the bullet's muzzle velocity was lowered anywhere from 16% to 26% (depending on the ammunition used) while maintaining the weapon's automation and reliability. The weapon was designed to be used with standard supersonic ammunition with the suppressor on at all times.[17]"
@@ganthrithor if you don’t catch enough gas it will go faster than the round and knock it out of balance as it exits the barrel. You need a heavier bullet to drop the speed. Catching the gas ensures that. The round design has to accommodate what it’s being fired out of. It takes 2 to tango.
What brought me to this video is I just now started messing with range finders to try and get shooter born in heaven quest done. What I've seen is that on the SV98 using LPS (default for this gun) I'd sit in the treeline on Woods and flag a PMC in Emercom Camp at exactly 150 yards, I mean exact. I'd then adjust my zero to 150 and perfectly time a headshot where they are not moving and looting something, and the shot just misses. It goes right over their head otherwise it'd be a neck/thorax shot if low. I waited and did it again, same exact issue. My buddies essentially said zeroing is broken and don't ever use it, instead just use the rangefinder to make shots at several distances at a wall or something and memorize your holds with that gun. I don't get how they could fuck something up that is so simple.
I wish there was some kind of long range range like the one in hideout just to get the "feel" of the gun at longer distance
Agreed - going to offline mode over and over until you get the right weather conditions is annoying as hell lmao
@@Gigabeef I'm putting my tin foil hat on for this, but i'm convinced that BSG has some parameters setup so that the game identifies if you want to do some long range practice in offline mode and then proceeds to cuck you with terrible weather visibility . Got so frustrated about this I tested it for a couple hours, doing 10 min offline raids with short range weapons and low magnification scopes vs long range weapons with higher magnification scopes. Almost always got fog or rain when I had something with a 4x or greater on the long range maps (Reserve/Lighthouse). The frequency of which the offline raid had clear weather I was better off doing an actual PMC raid, which with that sudden realization basically convinced me BSG designed it this way.
I believe this was confirmed but don't quote me.
We need manual zeroing and saving zero presets on gun presets. This way of zeroing has so many potential flaws.
This explains a lot for me, I switched to US rounds yesterday as I saw a video about it being the new meta, and I was using a SKS with a PSO and I hot NOTHING! I was so frustrated 🥴
Haha yup, thought this information would be timely with all the subsonic enjoyers at the moment :)
Thank you, I have just been using default ammo vs ammo used velocity in my thought process and didn't think about coefficient or use the simulate function of tarkov ballistics. As someone who regularly takes 400-600m shots with specific guns this should really help me dial in my dope tables for my "i'm bored lets see if I can do this" sniping raids. Unfortunately now I have several hours of homework to do on the ballistics site and in offline raids to min max with the coefficient variable for ammo/gun combos lol.... long live the T5000 and SV98 gaming!
It’d be cool if when we load into a raid the pmc zero gun to the chambered round by default.. or if they want to make it expert something You can do in the hideout. Meanwhile scavs are just using whatever they got setup to some default target round
Hard disagree for the first idea.
Sometimes I'll have my first few rounds be good AP but then use something else after that. I'd prefer to be zeroed for the latter.
Allow people to adjust zero before entering this is more or less realistic so not much change needs to be made. Iron Sights should always be adjustable and depending on the scope or optic it should adjustable on the fly or before going into the zone depending.
Alternative they can let us set the scope offset entirely manually in some amount of moa increments, so while the scopes come in default calibre zero, you can adjust them +/- based on your own settings. Which also means it will deincentivise using other people's guns as you just don't know what zero they may have set it.
What a thorough, technical, and helpful video. Thanks for this. I'm stunned by the level of detail and physics-based realism that they've put into this game. Amazing
Cheers!
I'd love to see a more freeform zero system. You should be able to set the zero on a sight to a specific velocity. This accounts not only for differences between rounds but also between attachments and barrels, or the system could go full arma ace and have you adjust a sight by clicks instead of ranges
clicks actually translate into a given range, each sight would be different yes, but EFT's system allows the devs not to have to adjust the states on each individual sight corresponding with each individual different round. You can see the same thing with Archery sights that "swing" and allow the archer to be accurate at 10 yards and out to 150, without having to do anything but "add or remove a couple clicks" once its "sight tape" is set to the proper arrow specs and such (the exact same as you would with a rounds ballistics)
Man. I remember my first wipe, I really took to sniping and trough trial and error me and my friend put together a small notebook of distances from different sniping spots to different spots (For example Chupa chups on reserve to the trainyard, Sniper rock to dickhead rock etc...) but goddamn this vid was informative!
Dang that's dedication!
Yo you wanna share that notebook lol 😆 I'm tryna learn sniping and struggling lol
Maybe have advanced zeroing be a feature that is unlocked in the workbench once you unlock the shooting range
Like in the Weapon customization screen, the one you unlock with Workbench 1, have it add a little dropdown for the base zero round of the weapon once the shooting range is built.
This puts quite a bit into perspective. I tried shooting someone the other day with the VPO-215. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out how I didn't get a headshot at the time. Now I realize it could be because I was using Geksa instead of the EKO. I probably hit them in the armor. Thanks for getting this info out there! I'll definitely be keeping it in mind from now on.
I always test in an offline raid before taking a new gun or round in. Yes it's tedious but with this fucky game you can't be too careful.
If they dont do calibration one way would be to auto zero with the first round chambered or in the chamber at the start of the match to avoid the reticle jumping
they could add a dope station to hideout or workbench with a little chart with all the ammo stats and you can zero your scope before raid, could be fun little detail
Although I never noticed this or felt like these were a problem to me, it’s still awesome to learn about and that I should keep an eye out. Thank you very much!
It's less bad than it was because bullet drop is approx 3x less than before 12.12 :)
almost every optic ive used irl has 1MOA BDC's as the coarses adjustment not including distance compensation you could easily add a key to adjust the BDC for different ammo types
BSG should implement a system to go to your hideout and zero your weapon for the primary rounds you will be using for that raid. It would not be difficult to code and make players much happier. Just my opinion. Thank you for sharing the information and making it understandable.
LOL I would be very difficult to code . You have zero clue .
@@edh9746 You're right. I don't know coding. So explain why it would be difficult. It seems counter-intuitive. BSG already has a system in place for 1 round for each weapon in the game. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm truly curious.
@@mattbrown5511 put simply coding is not a straightforward process.
@@edh9746 I'll take your word for it since I know you are an "ex-spurt". Have a nice day.
It wouldn't be difficult but knowing bsg if they did it the game would probably be broken for a few days
The fact that you can no longer just look up for the best ammo and best armor like it was few years ago tells A LOT about the development.
Statistics become so complicated, and have so many factors...
I've noticed this with the eotechs too. It's only when attached on ak platform rails and some others that need attachments to be put on the weapon. Like being up off the weapon or platform doesn't get zerod in automatically.
Your videos never miss. Great informative content, this is huge information for players if they will utilize it.
That being said… I don’t zero lol
Haha thanks. Yeah I mean it's just good to be aware even if you don't zero, as some round drop more than others regardless of the zeroing
I find that in general the differences in velocities for the bullets don't make enough of a difference to actually make you miss a headshot, a target being an extra 20-30 meters away when you're ranged for 250 is probably going to make more of a difference than your bullet going moderately faster than the sights are calibrated for.
Best way to get around this as a whole is to just get a general feel of the velocity for each round and guestimate your shots, or only do sniping at ranges beyond 200m with very fast rounds that have flat trajectories.
Nice vid Gigabeef , i'm surprised you actually found my old calibration post.
as for unsung hero ppppffft please. My ego can only take so much.
That explains so much lol, I missed so many headshots with zeroed scopes on the gornostay, I even brought the rangefinder but nothing. I feel like they should add the ability to calibrate scopes in the hideout maybe make it a calibration station. It also makes me question what is going on with NSPU-M and the AKML iron sights because both are for the akml system which was a nightfighting akm made to be used with the US rounds. You can make one in game by getting an akmn and putting the NSPU, AKML irons and the AKML flashhider on it, however if the scopes and irons are calibrated based off of the default round for the gun then that means neither the irons nor the scope actually work on the round it was made for?
I also now understand why so many people simply ditch the zeroing and go by experience cause this is honestly unsuable.
Yup
I absolutely love the Calibration suggestion
Still can't believe we still have to deal with this.
This is especially annoying with shotguns, which are zeroed with 7mm by default, so if using something like SF slugs for long range use, using any scope is impossible due to almost a 200m/s difference of speed.
Just make gun calibrate to rund in chamber. No round in chamber then default calibration. Simple and easy...
To make it realistic, remove the zeroing for absolute values like meters. Just use a relative scale and calibrate it for the used rounds at the shooting range before the raid. EZ
Or if you want more realistic, the scopes must be calibrated using the MOA system.
This is so well put together and so informative. You have a gift for teaching.
Thanks, appreciate it :)
@@Gigabeef Did they fix this issue?
@@PvPsFinests not yet... I really wish they would though hah
One note, possibly tangential, the really high power 30mm sights are not actually variable (not as advertised) but instead static. Making it all the more odd that the high power 34mm sights are variable (as advertised).
I've actually had enough troubles with this on woods that I've stopped zeroing my guns and just followed my guts.
It would be cool where instead of a selection menu you can go into a long range or offline raid and actually zero the gun to the round the way you would irl. Fire a round, see where it hits, adjust and try again. And you can do it in raid too. A rangefinder would be super handy for this since you can range 100 meters to a wall amd then know your gun is perfectly zeroed at 100 meters. It would make carrying the range finder pretty viable
Very interesting, but in the case of the VPO - what is the best way to use AP ammo?
Just have to be aware that the amount of "extra drop" relative to the zero is at it's worst at 200m, and gets less either side of that. But will be lower than the zeroing most of the time, so you have to shoot higher than you think
PgUp, PgDown while looking through the sight will change elevation. If you use US ammo, for example, set higher elevation, bullet drop will be compensated by the elevation.
0:15 reverse psychology...now I want to watch every second of the video
There was a hunting game on original xbox cabelas game hunting or something (not 100 percent sure on the name but think this was it) but it had a zeroing adjuster at the fire range where you could ads and take a shot on target at 100 metres and then could adjust the guns sight up and down manually or automatically to zero the gun
Thank you for all the work you do!
Another notable example is AP slugs; They hit super high. An Elcan Specter on an MP-153 zeroed at 50 meters will actually act as if zeroed for 150 meters with AP slugs.
that is why u schould use red dots zeroed to 25 the 50 zero is way to high for shotgun slugs
@@gurkenwasser6397 Its alright, since you can use the irons on the Elcan or hip fire at closer ranges. When shooting at 100-150 meters you just get used to the height adjustment.
@@guycxz I guess but had best AP-20 perfomance with a Delta point got a shooter born in heaven on costums with it hahaha
Well now I can blame the zeroing instead of my aim, thanks for the info
Hello do you know if anything has changed with this new wipe
Most of my fights take place when I'm in the range of shoreline resort and pass some bushes that have people in them.
Haha yep... Zeroing doesn't matter too much then :)
It’s actually good that the game functions like this and in no way should the game automatically zero for something like a sub sonic round. They’re sub sonic, they were never meant for longer ranges as they drop off in damage anyways.
Yes, but we need a way to alter it
@@Gigabeef I can see that as an option, if we're splitting hairs between "reality" and gaming though every time we swap optics we'd have to re-zero in like the hideout or something. That would actually be pretty cool to have the option of.
I'd actually be up for that - swap optic in raid and you're back to the default zeroing for example! No problems with that at all
I love that this is how actual zeroing works. The attention to detail from the devs is great. You seem to know your stuff. Do you shoot irl or just learn this from tarkov?
He sounds brittish so I doubt he has even touched a real gun.
@@luke8952 ever heard of shooting ranges mate?
I learned from Tarkov indeed. And yes I am British, I have fired on a couple of military ranges with the SA-80, however I am by no means experienced IRL
@@Gigabeef cool man.
@@luke8952 condemnation before investigation is the height of ignorance my friend
bro if someone goes to teach me a game mechanic and takes out a fucking spread sheet im just going to pretend that i didn't know about the mechanic
Totally fair lol
Great video now I know why I miss my m61 shots it's not that I'm washed
ahhhhhhh no waaaay!!! I have seen this first hand and couldn't figure it out. so frustrating. all those needless deaths.....
You're such an informative human
Rounds do not go up after leaving the barrel. They are fired at an upward trajectory to reach farther distances. They fly along the path of which the barrel is pointed and gravity pulls it down from there.
"Fired up" kinda means they go up - relative to the ground. Gigabeef ain't sayin, and no one is sayin, that they go up relative to the aim of the barrel.
But now you got me imagining no-spin bullets with little wings..
For sure. It's all relative though, so they do move higher than the straight line from the sight from the perspective of the shooter, but as you say it's because the barrel is pointed upwards
Muzzle and barrels also affect you velocity now
This is true but I believe the game corrects for that if you're using the default ammo
@gigabeef - You should do a follow up to this but within the 100m range. It's even worse that this based on my testing. The BSG provided charts aren't even close to being correct with regards to trajectory :(
I like the calibration slot that's locked in raid, or maybe having a calibration option at hideout range?
Another fairly easy method would just to allow sights to adjust in set increments. You know, like in real life. Have your sight show what MOA offset it’s at, and then adjust the offset depending on distance and round. With how industrious the community is, we’d have dope sheets within the week, and you could micromanage your hold over on long range scopes. Being able to select what round you’d be zeroed for is definitely more convenient for the player, but why battlestate chose its current, clunky and shit method over either alternative kinda blows me away
now that i know that it is like that im completly fine that the rounds dont hit where you zero anymore, but maybe more accurate zeroing would be nice to go in 10 meter steps or something
They should implement range-finder cards and something like a ATragMX Handheld ballistics calculator, like ARMA 3 has.
I think weapons should be zeroed based on what is loaded in the chamber on deployment. Makes sense because we have a firing range, which is how I imagine lore wise we’d be zeroing anyways.
So there’d be no fiddling with it in raid or any complications like that. But that’s just my opinion. I think the suggestion of the scope addition for a zero slot would be a good way to do it as well.
Oh and what’s interesting about this in particular is that because Scavs don’t spawn with a bullet in the chamber, they won’t be zeroed. Which would fit perfectly with the idea they aren’t soldiers with training, rather just people who armed themselves.
Ha nice one! Yeah makes sense
1:08 its actually a LOT easier without testing if you understand firearms and bullets IRL. Thats one of the things that makes this game so much better then SO many others. This simple factor. Yes Zeroing is broken.... but , Honestly.... How many tarkov players ACTUALLY understand what Zeroing is on a fire arm or rifle? YUP.... Thats what I thought.... Only the people who have either served in a military or actually own fire arms. I actually dotn own any but I do shoot archery, so I knew about zeroing from that. Each pin on your sight (on a multipin sight) can be set to a different yardage or distance measurement. Usually done in yards for arrows. So you know, "my fourth pin down is set to be spot on at 100 yards", for example, So I know if that deer is 120ish yards out, I need to compensate by moving that pin above my target. So that my arrow falls into place and dosnt fall short of the target.
It's adding a new system not all would like but this zeroing on the fly is crazy if you zero gun at 300m at base you can't just flick a switch to put it at 50m mid fight, let me control the zero (3clicks up 2 clicks left) and then I will be fully aware where rounds will land at range, if tarkov wants to be a realistic shooter, this is the realism we need being it's literally the shooty bit of the game that being said canted sights and dual sight systems would be much much more useful due to the fact you have cqc sight at 50 scope at 300 (one of the main reasons to carry a dual sight system in the field) how to make it more tolerable use presets once you range in your cqc m4, every time you preset build that m4 game will remember but mid fight well we need animations for scope nob Turing (a lot of holo/cqc sights need a screwdriver to adjust) or simply knowing how your round will fly
I like your funny words, magic man
best FPS game ever made even with all of its problems.
Man, I sure do hope they implement that ammo type zeroing soon (if at all)... It's really frustrating to get killed by snipers who have a lot of experience with these kinds of things just because they played more.
To be honest that is a running theme with the game. You are supposed to mostly have the odds stacked against you because there will always be someone more experienced out there in the raids, waiting for you.
@@gothicbbmelvin Just like many other games with realistic shooting, yes... However, if tarkov was to change, that one detail would be for the better, I think.
lol, I picked up a scav rifle that had to be zeroed to max range. it was aiming at the cieling in my hands
I will lead this new ballistic coefficient meta. All hail bullets with infinite range! Seriously though, I’m now curious what the highest coefficient is, and if it makes the round worth using overall just for consistency in firefights regarding damage and pen.
You can see that on here actually: tarkov-changes.com/ballistics/information
Seems to be the GL, then the big fixed machine guns and then the makeshift 50 BMG slug as the first "real" round! Then all the 338 Lapua ones, Subsonic SX, PS12 for the ASh and x54r BS. Interesting list!
I don't think zeroing is that important. I have around 1000 hours in tarkov and you need a couple of them to get the hang of understanding it's ballistics in terms of bullet drop off. So unless you're specifically sitting in a sniper position targeting a specific area, or shooting 400m+ zeroing is pretty much useless and will mess up your shots more than help. After couple of hours you will have muscle memory and will instinctively know where to aim, it will take less time and be more effective.
Yeah one of those things that's good to be aware of broadly
Rounds being zeroed to scopes is only new this wipe. So I don't believe that velocity was factored in until this wipe.
Dang...... Well I watched it to the end anyways. Good info
Very well researched and informative video. But to be honest there was so much information that I am More confused than before..
Sorry! I didn't do a good job explaining in that case.
Should be able to build your own rounds and zero your scope to whatever on the range in the hideout
thx. for sharing the informations upfront
Awesome as always Mr Beef
Cheers!
Anyone can tell me what its the name of the scope and the laser on top of the mp5SD on 5:45??
Schmidt & Bender PM II 1-8x24 inside a Recknagel Era-Tac 30mm ring scope mount :)
can someone help. i have a problem with my gun. i seem to aim in and shoot where the dot is and the bullet mark is below a bit of the dot. even at close range it is like that
Great and informative!
Excellent video . Comment from a irl shooter
Thanks!
It's a fine solution. But don't put the zero'ing on the gun. Put it on the optic.
If I zero a gun in my hideout, walk into a raid, loot a new optical sight and put it on the gun, that sight would NOT be zero'ed correctly to my gun and ammo.
Having the zero'ing inherent on the gun instead of the optics is just plain wrong with how ammo, guns and optics work in real life.
Edit: I know "It's a game" is an argument to make when talking realism vs fun.
But BSG has shown and said that they are committed to make the guns work as realistically as they can feasibly be, so I still think my point is valid.
Hmm that's true and complicates things I guess. Perhaps have it "reset" the zeroing if you change scope
I'm with you buddy. I don't play tarkov cause I want simple arcade physics. I play tarkov cause it simulates a gun fight better than any other game out there. With that should come the need to do your homework if you want to survive. Just like knowing how much camber or toe you need to adjust to make a car handle better in a race sim, you should have to put in the wrench time on your guns in this gun fight sim.
The harder something is, the more satisfying it is when you get it right.
dont zero and your good
Super helpful mate 🇦🇺👌🏼
Damn I still don't get this stuff I just gave up on shooter born because my bullets would over shoot or under shoot by alot 🙃
Man this makes so much sense as to why shooter born in heaven can be so irritating
Wow, so this is why I only hit about 1 out of every 15 bullets on a dude 4 feet away from me. It all makes sense now!
😂 yep that's gotta be it!
So build a dope card for the gun I use with the ammo.
A simple fix ,( that would be anything but a simple fix) is to introduce mill ticks + and - . Instead of the stupid 50m 100m 150m etc .
Fuckin dope work man.
damn this was useful, thanks man
I love this game because this is literally how it works in real life.
The problem is that they account for the ballistics of different rounds but seemingly dont provide a way to actually zero your weapon to a round, which is terrible. I love the realism of Tarkov, but the way this is implemented, theyve handed us a realistic problem but not the realistic solution. If youre using the "wrong" round, your only option is to guesstimate, or do a lot of testing to find out what the different "zero" range increments actually mean.
Im glad i came across this video, as a new player i was VERY confused when using the rangefinder and adjusting my elevation was working for 300m shots with some guns, but not at all for others. I had just assumed the elevation "clicks" were basically broken and the 50m default just auto compensated for some reason.
Would be ecstatic if they actually allowed you to zero your weapon at a known distance though
In real life you'd zero your optic at a gun range tuned to the round you'd plan to shoot ahead of time. 4:38 makes the most sense, realistically.
Is this still the case or have they fixed this?
The only time I've seen zeroing be effective is on 800-1200m shots where you run out of mil dots if you don't lol
what's the scope you used in testing?
This was the Schmidt & Bender PM II 1-8x24
Where can you check the default round for each weapon?
On the wiki page for each gun
the MP5 "issue" is because the SD has almost no barrel because the barrel is the suppressor. Suppressors actually cause drag on the round, with the standard mp5 has a barrel which allows the bullet to have a higher velocity
Suppressors actually act as inefficient barrels slightly increasing the muzzle velocity depending on the length of the suppressor. In game you can see this on all suppressors.
@@walkerofpauls2710 in real life the baffels inside the suppressor trap the gases that are propelling the bullet, which creates drag.
@@181baddog not how it works
Basically, Tarkov is broken in really subtle and hard to tell ways that really undermine the overall experience. But their simulations are complex in a way you'll never notice... Cool?
Yup, nailed it. I used to love the idea of the realism when I first started, but now I'm much more into the user experience
So basically use ammo that has a higher velocity
Hello everyone... If you've been playing this game since 2018, you'll realize that this is not a new issue... It's almost like a 'feature' of the game...
Bro this is confusing where do aim in this game aha
I'm getting so frustrated going for rouges when I adjust my aim every shot on a still target 20times before I kill it
Choose ammo close or the exact as the default and it works perfectly. Annoying really!
Me after first 40 secons of the video of the: Fuck this game is so insanely realistic in some aspects