Why Do The Pros LOVE The Original 90's Nobels? | ODR-1 Nerdy Deep Dive
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- I never understood the big deal with the Nobels ODR-1 overdrive...until now.
Watch, listen , and FEEL why all the pros are raving about the original 90's Nobels ODR-1 overdrive pedal.
Check out these other videos:
Tom Bukovac @501chorusecho blind pedal shootout: • Homeskoolin’ Special E...
Brian Wampler @wampler_pedals and the Belle: • The Other Green Overdr...
Ask Zac @AskZac All About The Nobels: • All About The Nobels O...
Tim Pierce @timpierceguitar and Pete Thorn Nobels Demo: • Tim Pierce and Pete Th...
▶ TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Backstory and Buk
3:15 - Shootout Setup
5:15 - First Test
7:30 - Dynamics Test
9:00 - More Gain Test
11:55 - Single Notes Test
14:07 - New Nobels 18v Test
15:20 - Tele & Bassman Test
18:28 - Tele Neck Pickup Test
19:39 - Final Opinion
20:07 - Upcoming
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Видеоклипы
![What About The Nobels ODR-1? [vs TS9 & BD-2w into AC15 & Deluxe Reverb] That Pedal Show](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WjCVnFLwP9k/mqdefault.jpg)
![What About The Nobels ODR-1? [vs TS9 & BD-2w into AC15 & Deluxe Reverb] That Pedal Show](/img/tr.png)
The funny thing is that RJ was running through an Earthquaker Plumes the whole time and never changed the settings. The Nobels’ and the Belle weren’t even in the chain. Good one man!
I need to get one now!
I had an original 90s one... I had a reissue. I made a clone... all your hearing is component variation. The designer of the circuit himself (Kai) says there's been no changes over the years.
This! It`s all hype, bias and auto suggestion. If you are a player and not a collector nothing justifies spending extra hundreds of dollars for an old Nobels.
probably leaks in the components as well over time
I wonder if the age of the pedal changes the sound
great demo and analysis -- it was very helpful to give the players perspective, what you're feeling/hearing as the player!
Every studio situation ive ever been in when i use OD pedals the producer without fail when i hit the Nobels goes ‘what was that? Use that one!’ So i think even if you don’t get it or like it you recognize that thats the sound that sits in a mix the best. Lots of Od’s are a lot more fun for playing guitar by yourself and smoother live but don’t track as well. Cheers!
I think that’s probably it. And most of us listen with our player ears most, whereas a producer is going to constantly think “in the mix”.
King of tone is like too. Most of the good hype pedals are great on tracks, in a mix
I find it funny to me. "The Captain" Anderton was mentioning years ago how he loved the Nobels specifically because he was playing by himself and not in a band, and didn't have to worry about his frequency bandwidth as a guitar player.
People love the Klon and the Tubescreamer specifically because it cuts a lot of the bass, and makes the mids nice and present.
Yet the Nobels is being lauded so much for being great in the mix - and I think I GET it now.
You want a good baseline distorted sound for rhythm - but when it's time to play leads and solo, you can use a bit of the mid-push (putting an EQ afterwards like Uncle Larry does, or maybe put a Klon or Bluesbreaker after) to take up the sonic space the vocalist is leaving behind.
Been excited for this episode since you mentioned it on the live stream! I also really enjoyed Buk's blind shootout--I couldn't believe the ODR-Mini held its own.
It sold me one. (For the original ODR price😜)
Excellent video! Very enjoyable- thanks RJ!
Great video my good man! I dig this format!
What the Nobles OD does best is not sound like a Tube Screamer.
Totally
Lol!! I thought the same thing until I put my old ts9 with a mxr timmy in front of it and...umm... Dude, its better!!
In many ways it’s the anti tube screamer, with the spectrum at center it’s fairly balanced.
Wow excellent and thorough comparisons video!
Awesome demo RJ!!
OUTSTANDING R.J. thanks for doing this comparison demo for us
The Wampler Belle connect it at 18 volts is just phenomenal! Fantastic versatile overdrive tool! Plus the bass, color and switch button on the side it's a bonus clipping voice choice!
Would be curious to hear the original, belle and the mini that Uncle Larry really liked as well! Shootouts in general are just fun and informative when done well like this R.J. 👌🏻🤘🏻
Another great demo RJ.
I've been watching those Nobels.
Great informative video, RJ. Time to start looking for an original ODR, I guess...!
Great video RJ! Loved the Uncle Larry cuts hahah
Love my Nobels mini...as I recall, Bukovac, in his test video, picked that as much as any other on that board. Josh, I think, often makes the point, that even pedals out of the same production line, may vary. To me all three pedals here sound great, even if they're ever so slightly different. The Wampler is wonderfully "slender"...or, dare I say, "transparent" 😬
Really Great Video Man ❤
I have a Nordland ODR-CC+, and I love being able to adjust the mids and compression (the O.D.C. control).
The Nordland Electronics ODR-C is probably the favorite version in the land where the Nobels ODR-1 was born, because it's the company of the man who designed the original ODR-1, Kai Tachibana
I want one so badly, but price is up there. That black one he released was sexy as hell…tho, I’d probably lose it on my pedalboard lol.
I have one...the top end is harsh sounding. I also have nobles Reissue and Venuram shanks too. I will be selling the Nordland and probably the nobles reissue
I learned a lot! I first heard about the ODR-1 from the great Jerry Donahue in the 90s at a guitar store in Hollywood, CA. I could kick myself for not seeking one out. I finally got 2 versions in 2018 and I prefer them with single coils. When I play with my 335 I use a special one my friend built me with a very beautiful sounding bass knob. With my vintage Tele into a clean Brown Panel or Black Panel 40 watt amp with 10" speakers both versions of the circuit I have sound like the amp and not a pedal. I don't like them set too dirty, I prefer to stack drives if I want to get them dirty. A Timmy or a Lightspeed pushing the ODR sounds incredible. Thanks RJR. Super helpful!
I just got the Nordland ODR-CS and it's now my favorite overdrive. It's a recreation of the ODR-S variant that gets overlooked IMO. Y'all be sure to check that one out. It's like a hi-fi version of the original Nobels circuit. Great video!
Got my Nordland ODR-CS as well and testing/comparing it to my ODR-CC+. I would be very curious about what your take on this is. It is basically a ODR-C with added clarity and the added feature of a mixing in a germanium hard clipping. I would humbly guess this to be right up your alley as well.
So glad i got one when they were super cheap, my favourite pedal of all time, never left the board
Dude I've always watched your content, you're fantastic guitar player and really know watch you talking about! btw the video editing in this one hahahahahah. Spot on!
Pretty good chops on this one, RJ.
I have the Wampler Belle and I love it for boosting solos. I didn't know the Wampler could take 18v, that is going to open up a new opportunity for me on my board, power supply was running out of the 9v. Thanks for the review, very insightful.
RJ, that gain knob has everything to do with the tone of this pedal, so I would have loved to have heard them at equal gain settings. The sound would have been more tonally similar with the gains and spectrum in the same spot (even if the new one ends up sounding a little gainier). It smooths out as you increase the gain, so it wasn't *quite* a fair shootout in that one respect. I personally have the mini Nobels. I most often use it with the gain all the way down, just as an amp enhancer. Lots of different ways to use it.
That is a good sound you cant describe. Its very clean yet distorted and the distortion character is round and cool sounding
Great demo /eval
I found it real interesting that Uncle Larry didn't dig the Nobels ODR-1 mini when you were hanging with him and Guthrie, but when he did that blind shootout, he actually called the mini the best of the bunch once or twice. I have the Browne Atom on my main board, considering the ODR-1 mini for my small board, especially now that it's indirectly gotten the seal of approval from Tom haha. Would be curious to see you do this again with the ODR-1mini to see how it stacks up against the new full sized unit and the original from the 90s. Great video man, cheers!
He did say that, but don't forget that when they first started the shootout he picked the original ODR out from all the others. Only after playing for like 30 minutes did he start to like the other one. I'm not a pedal snob I just thought that was interesting but I'd be happy with the ODR Mini myself.
@@raymondjamesrivera Yeah that's a good point. He sniped out the original one almost immediately haha. Just makes me wonder if it was one of those "seeing tone with your eyes" kind of things the first time he tried out the mini
Tom was contradicting himself quite a few times. I think all the Nobels were quite close, to be frank.
@@lincolnosiris3665 Agreed they were all definitely more similar to one another than different. May still pickup a ODR-1 mini for the small board
@@CargoShorts7 I can really recommend the new ODR-1. The bass cut is great for humbuckers. Especially in the neck position.
Great vid... The wampler having that bass knob definitely helps with different amps... I have the odr-1 is great to especially if you're running on a bridge pickup all night... However things can get a bit flubby in the neck position... That's where I feel the belle works great... Also try stacking with an Ep boost style pedal very nice combo
This was great, thanks. It makes me curious about the Vemuram ODS and the Nordland ODR.
Nordland is a one-man one-pedal company run by the guy who designed the original ODR-1 circuit, so that's the way to go if you want a "real" ODR sound
@giorgiomusso8558 I have the Nordland and it is harsh sounding in the top end. I have the shanks and nobles Reissue absolutely sound sweeter than the Nordland ...very dissatisfied with it
Now let's put the 30th Anniversary on the table and see how they compare!
I dig it. I got a new Nobels ODR-1 a couple weeks ago. I definitely like the feel of it.
Friendly comment. I own the Wampler Belle, like all of Brian’s drives it’s fantastic. I think for me it’s just not so much my kind of circuit. I’m glad I have it, because I do like it for “old-school” R&B however it does not sit on my pedal board. My biggest aggravation is with the flat mids and highs that are too much and I can’t seem to dial out. I love the low end response on this circuit 🙌. Thanks for the video RJ, I really enjoyed it!
I have an original Nobels ODR-S which gives separate Bass, Mid and Treble controls. It is a great pedal, and the best modern version is the Wampler Underdog Overdrive. I have one of those too and can make it sound exactly like the original.
Sometimes it is the zeitgeist. Back in the day they recorded some great albums with the pedal, played some epic gig and the distance in time from today to that era covered the memories with some scintillating patina that made everything more memorable. And today you cannot recapture that magic.
My personal opinion.
It happened to me with an obscure Vox Overdrive. I played a couple of great gigs with it, recorded an EP and now, even though I don't use it, I cannot bring myself to selling it.
Thank you very much for that comparison. Through RUclips I liked the new odr 1 the best!
great vid - good comparison - definitely one for the tone chasers - ... Also - there is the ODR-mini... which is a great option too if space is at a premium... goodness knows how it compares 'though
The Visual Sound Open Road is incredible. It was my first overdrive pedal back 12 years ago and it's still on my board today. Amazing ODR style drive
Visual Sound VSXO for me...nodded nobels and a modded ts
Great pedal sir totally agree also the Cusack Screamer awesome pedal with different clipping modes one I will never get tired of in a sea of overdrives flooding the market constantly
Both Nobels units sound like classic style tube preamps to my ears, even if there are sonic differences between them. The ODR box sounds just like the tube screamer to my ears as well. That might not be what was intended, but I think it’s a pleasant outcome.
I've never jelled with the ODR either. I use the Mad Professor Little Green Wonder for that sound. They both definitely work best with single coils though, too dark for humbuckers.
The differences are so subtle, that to me, it doesn't matter. I'll stick to what I got... which feels great, and is very touch sensitive... I'm good, love Vertex pedals.
Interesting! You described it exactly like I heard it. With the 90s version everything just sounded okay, there was nothing annoying to the sound. While the other two did annoy me at times.
Then again, I could SEE what you were doing, so maybe my mind is just messing with me, because let’s face it, they’re not worlds apart.
And to make it even crazier. I never understood the attraction towards these things, yet when I hear the Vemuram ODS-1, I spontaniously start to wiggle my tail. 😳
I picked up an Open Road back when they first came out and have always really liked it. Had no idea ‘til a few years ago it was an ODR-1 clone as I’d never knowingly heard an ODR-1.
I use the Open Road mainly with lower wattage amps with light-ish bass response. The pedal’s low-mid/bass boost works well with such amps. But it also sounds killer into the Brilliant channel of a Vox AC50 or Hiwatt.
IMHO The Open Road is too seriously underrated. That and a good boost, before or after it. Nobels are good too but probably had better marketing at least here in Canada.
Love my Nobels ODR-1. Bought it by trying a few pedals out. I have like 80 something pedals and probably like 25+ drive pedals and I love it on any amp that isn't heavy on the low end frequencies.
This demo was very well done, the "Original" was my favorite of the three. I own the "New" Nobels and I'm happy with the way it sounds BUT, the Wampler is something that I'm going to have to buy.
The Belle really is fantastic. I own the ODR reissue as well and the Belle nails the tone but just refines it as well. Killer pedal.
I bought the Wampler, hoping it would sound like the original ODR-1…It didn’t quite jell with what I do, so I found a video that tells how to turn into a clean boost. It’s wonderful for that!
Aw man, looks like we're well on our way to the next wave of pedal hype. I own and like the ODR-1 mini from Nobels, which has the advantage of having a metal housing and, well, being tiny. I would have loved to see that one included in the comparison. Maybe someone can enlighten me how wrong I am when I say that's all the Nobels I'm ever likely to need.
I just “found” one in my studio effects cupboard…..from the 90s, with the original box,in mint condition…..I think I bought it for 59 DM in Munich , the equivalent of 30€,35$ish……I used to take it for jam sessions but about 15 years ago,took out the battery, put it into its box and let it sleep……same thing with my other originally bought pedals, like the Klon which I bought directly from Bill, the Zendrive which I bought from Alfons Hermida directly for 99$,my TS 808,TS 9,SD 9, Boss CE 1 and 2…….thank god I didn’t sacrifice them in the late 80s/90s Rack years, which I also took part in, alas I did sell my 2290,PCM90,1210 and the whole switching rigmarole.
Just got one yesterday! 😁
So about 6 years ago i walked into a shop and saw a nobels odr1 i didnt really know what it was but i thought it looked cool so i asked the guy how much he said $50 so i bought it, i thought it was ok, but never really got along with it, was doing some more research and it was an original from the 90s and it was mint, fast forward about 2 years it was going for about $200 to $300 so i sold it in a trade😞now they're going for about$2000 wow, but now have a silver nobels dt1 distortion and love it it sounds like the vintage odr1 but has a little more gain on tap!!!
It's funny that this is the pedal from the early 1990s. Back then Nobels was the brand one bought if on didn't have money for a Boss. I had a bunch of these and they were quite solid and functional. The Nobels tremolo had useful features and the phaser was funny as. The ODR was just an ok drive, but little did I understand the dynamic feel of vintage amps back then. A pedal that never gets mentioned that has similar feel, but that also works with baritones, is the Black Arts Toneworks Black Forest. It has that same feel and dynamic responsivity.
I watched Tom's pedal shoot out and didn't he pick the Nobel Mini at one point ? Very interesting . I jumped on buying the new ODR-1 .But after watching the shoot out video with Tom I thought that I should have bought the Mini . I can't afford the real one so I'm trying get the next best pedal to it . Thanks R J .
im running a dual amp setup, one with a nordland odr-c and one with a vemuram janray clone, both always on… full bass cut on both, sounds awesome
Saw some Lava Cable's there...thanks! I have both the Belle and a New ODR-1. I stack them with a RAT2 with it's distortion barely dialed on, filter to darkest and volume at about 3/4 - SOUNDS AMAZING, especially with a Boss GE-7 to push it over the top.
Hey Mark! Yeah I still have some pedalboard kits from years ago! I've been experimenting with the Xactone modded GE-7 after the Nobels.
@@RJRonquillo Put a RAT after it!!! You will be blown away...dial the distortion to taste...it's killer
Ive been using a mini lately .. that through my Magnatone Twilighter is godly
another thing about the nobels is that ppl use it with blues drivers, sd1s and tube screamers, typically as a base lower gain stage to then get goosed by the more midhumped ods. i like reversing it and kind of using the nobels to create a fat silky lead tone into a driver
I think the differences are so slight its like comparing simple beige to sand dune beige. I like hearing comparisons in the context of a track personally . The Wampler hung in there like a champ but no surprise here.
The older Nobels I had was just another OD pedal for me, really just one in the local store that I didn’t already own. Never would have guessed it would be what it is today
I bought a Belle for my tele. It’s also great for my 90s Parker fly deluxe.
Thanks for doing this comparison! I would have preferred your basic amp settings were set cleaner, it’s a litter harder to hear how the pedals clip when the amp is compressing when you dig in. (Even though in the real world, most people would set the amp to edge of breakup)
I’ve got several ODR circuits: the Mini and Belle, and Chicken Soup.
The mini has too much bass for most of my guitars but stacks nicely with the Chicken Soup as a boost after.
Belle is good but has a mid range that sounds a bit so so when stacking.
J Rockett Chicken has less bass, more upper mid. Seems to have more gain than the mini.
I had a Visual Sound VS/XO - left sound is a tweaked Open Road. Interesting presence that I could never dial out. Bass control. Never gelled with it
I just gotta mini odr-1...works for me just fine 🤟
the thing the nobels has is very usable high end sparkle that isnt harsh with the spectrum knob turned up
I like the new one :-) . . . good demo btw
I have an original 90s ODR1 in great shape. Thinking about selling it now on Reverb.
I am in love with the Belle
the edits were hilarious.
Exactly what I was going to say. And Charro!
Theyre GREAT with teles, can get stuffy with humbuckers but nice on bridge pup leads. I have a vemuram shanks, really nice with my tele
Thank you for putting up this comparison, great video. I can hear slight differences and would definitely prefer the original pedal (but not for 2 k ;-)) To be honest, I never got the hype about the pedal. Whatever version I try they always lose out to the Greer Lightspeed, my absolute favourite on the board.
Hey RJ, can you compare with the ODS-1 Shanks? Probably differente, but can be a cool comparasion. (EDIT) Sorry wrote before the end...can wait to see the next video.
Long time listener first time caller. I don't think the pedals make a diff with your playing since you make it all sound good. But the main thing I wanted to comment on is that you've got some nice flow going on. Being a fellow filo myself, I've struggled finding a shorter hair style that I like. I like yours so I'm stealing it for whenever I decide to lose the mullet I'm rocking now.
Overdrive pedals will all sound different depending on pickups, pickup output and amp. I found Nobels too dark for humbuckers and JTM45 but great with a Tele through a Fender amp.
This makes alot of sense to me given its presence in the Nashville scene.
I have the orginal Trapp OD from Jrockett which I think is based on the Chicken Soup. I adore the drive sounds out of that pedal. It's my go to low gain and classic rock tone machine. I have tried a Klon and hate it. I am considering a Nobels as well. I do find pedals to be somewhat of a "discover this one setting that is incredible" issue.
For me, anyway, I didn't care for how it sounded with my Strat or my PRS...but when I plugged in my Tele. So good.
Funny how your experience was very different to mine. I had the Belle and found that I couldn't get any nice mids, was very scooped and bright/harsh and dialing back the bass and spectrum turned it to mud. Where you had the bass, forget it haha the walls would've shaken off. Was better at 18v but ultimately was actually unusable. The original sounded best to me here :)
if you adjust the spectrum at all can you get them sounding closer? Not all pots are made alike, often the same position will give you different sounds on different pots, even in the same circuit.
Wow. Chico and the Man.. I'd forgotten all about that show.
Long story short, i got the new (bass cut) and i don't like it.
Was not able to tell why its the "pro favorite".
I know the mini sounds different from the BC, didn't know that it is also different from the "original"....
You have answered my long time question, thanks RJ!
I've got a 90s Nobels. It's good but you're right maybe overhyped. I tend to use fuzz and boost to get a lot of play with the vol knob
In the recent vid, Uncle Larry Really liked the mini for the record. I think it's all about knob turning imho.
I got the newer version and I feel like one of its magical sweet spots is really when you turn the drive knob all the way down and the level knob up.
Are you sure you didn't engage the bass cut accidentally? :D
I'm pretty sure there is a micro switch on the new odr1 under where the battery goes. It's a bass cut I believe. Check it out
Tom did a shootout with new ones and old ones and he picked a new one
How about the Aion Andromeda? Your demo of it sounded great. Curious how it compares.
Thanks for the compare-o, that was helpful.
Overdrive is one of the many guitar topics fraught with woo-woo, yet it can be critical to most any player not committed to jazz, folk or classical.
In terms of objective purpose, overdrive is a trick from the get-go:
_it's simply there to help an amp seem as though it's working at a higher output than it actually is._ Nothing else, really - all of the rest of it is aesthetic.
I've personally been through these ODs: TS (9 and bad monkey), Clone-taurs (j rockett ikon and DIY byoc silver pony), Boss BD-2 and SD-1 w/ DIY mods, and boost/pres: colorsound powerbooster(byoc DIY), Boss FA-1 and rangemaster+katana (keeley time machine).
In the end it's just helping each guitar+pick up combo hit the input of the amp with gusto; a link in a chain getting you a step closer to preferred coloration and aesthetics. Often it boils down to basically = "mid-focused or not + how much boost vs headroom do you like shaping transients and sustain"
As ever, the audience generally responds to it as "kicking it up a notch" in terms of the energy / distortion sound... and that is that. They're far more likely to imagine what you're wearing (or not) under the clothes, or what you had for lunch.
ThanksI
I have a vintage ODR-1 and it's the only overdrive-type pedal that doesn't sound like a "pedal". In pro-audio, there's a concept of "sound stage", whereas, you can think of the frequency spectrum (divided by lows, mids, and highs) as the X and Y axis; however, there's also layers of artifacts that breath and have depth. that's the Z axis. As an aside, this is where most modelers fall short: They compress those artifact into the x, y axis space, then try to compensate for the lack of z axis with delay and room reverbs. Anyway, many pedals sound compressed (no z axis) and/or, they sound too hi-fi. The vintage Nobels has something to it where the notes bloom. There's a Z axis. It's not hi-fi and not compressed; although, at the same time, it doesn't fall apart. I have a hunch it was a happy accident.
The original designer of the ODR-1 circuit has brought back the original design under Nordland Electronics. (I bought two) It's SUPER close, but the Nordland sounds slightly more hi-fi. I assume because the components used are higher grade.
BTW, I bought and sold the Belle. I typically respect Wampler stuff, but the Belle sounded flat, compressed, and a little fizzy to me.
A tip: on the ODR-1, try putting the spectrum slightly higher than you'd typically like (say between 2 and 4 o'clock), then back the guitar volume off just slightly. The spectrum knob is not just adding highs, but goosing an upper mid-range/highs curve and also opening the tone up a little.
Run a vemuram ods-1 into a Kingsley page into a tweed deluxe and smile they stack very well.
ive got the nordland odrc1 made by the original designer,handmade with all the best blah,blah,blah. so far ive only tried it with my swart tweed thingy,(tweed princeton) and i love it. but i also love fuzz faces,tonebenders,overdrivers,and my all time fave,keeley java. its all mood for me,like crayons for different colars i need to try the nordland with my more marshal and vox style amps,i want to see how they work together
J. Rockett has an ODR-1 style OD called the Chicken Soup. I haven't compared it with my modern Noballs ODR-1 yet.
Good video. Like you, the Nobel does not wow me. I have the new one and I have the Belle. The Belle sounds better with a higher gain setting and I like it. I haven’t made the Nobel sound great, just ok. I did splurge though for the Shanks and it does have magic and I use it for my strat tones with a Suhr Koko boost and it sounds great. I use higher gain and tone all the way treble for the strat and lower gain for LP and PRS. Rather than the price of the 1990’s Nobel the Shanks is a better choice, still ridiculous expensive but not $1000.
have the mini... very cool sounding pedal but also a bit bass heavy ...a bass knob would be nice 😊
The 90s one now has 30 year old caps in it. Maybe they've drifted?
There's a Special Edition (metallic paint with the bass cut) I have that is closer to the original ODR-1 than the new one imho from videos, I did close listening before buying. I haven't played an original.
RJ… would love to see these comparisons done blind to eliminate influence of Uncle Larry bias 😁
The only diff that I remember is that on the old one if u play a blues lick, and then play the same lick 3 times in reverse, a green wizard shows up to tech for you at your gig...
Interesting to see how you like the Brown Amplification Atom (the right side of their fantastic Protein).
I’d like to get one but you should try an old BB Preamp by Xotic FX
Nobody asked my opinion, but since this is the internet…I like the Nobels with the drive maxed out when I’m playing with lower tunings, that’s where it blooms the most for me. I was trying to match Kim Thayil’s tone from Outshined for a cover band years ago, tried hundreds of different drives with different amp combinations, and it was a Nobels maxed out through a Bassman that was the clincher. Not an always on OD for me, but definitely my goto for heavier downtuned articulate riffing
I mean, Kim used Peavey VTM 120 heads to record those songs. Many people don't know that the original Peavey 5150 is the VTM 120 with an extra gain stage added. EVH used VTMs too here and there. The original 5150 prototype was still in the VTM 120 cassis at first, James Brown said. Anyway, either of those heads will get you that exact Soundgarden tone, if you set them up right. I owned both amps in the late 80s and early 90s. If you go the 5150 route, I recommend trying lower gain, higher headroom 12AX7 preamp tubs and higher wattage Celestions with the larger ceramic magnets.