After watching a few of these videos I find I prefer the original practical effects over the CGI in a lot of places. Specially for the shots of the Enterprise. examples at 0:43 and 3:23, in the original FX the ship has character, shading and some bumps and bruises, the CGI is too clean and unblemished, and I'll never not love that profile shot of the old girl.
Thanks to the Tholians of the parrallel universe when they detenated tri cobalt warhead it open a door to our universe they sent a fake distress call though it to lure a ship from our side the U.S.S. DEFIANT responded and was pulled in as the DEFIANT was interphasing the crew went insane killed each other and DEFIANT appeared in the mirror universe .
@@andysahs1599 Thats exactly what I and many cannon sources are actualy betting on Infact thats what connects this piece of copyrighted cannon TOS content to ST Enterprise Eppisode A Mirror Darkley where the ISS Enterprise manages to find and liberate the Interphasicly displaced TOS Defiant from the Mirror Universe Tholian Asteroid base.
george martin Very much underrated. It’s a shame it was the only ST show to have so much meddling from the network; it was only when that ass Moonves cancelled it, he left it alone and we got the mighty season 4
Doing a call-back episode with the Defiant in the Enterprise series was extremely clever; it's a shame they didn't do a better job with the script. Archer and the rest of the crew trying to act evil was just embarrassing....
The Defiant rippling in the CGI effect was kind of cool. Trouble is, the physical models look so much more believable. The CGI ships look like computer images. The models look like real vessels.
One honest correction to the credits: Written by Judy Burns & Chet Richards Directed by Herb Wallerstein AND Ralph Senensky Ralph was fired halfway through filming this episode. On his website, he identifies which scenes are his and he sets the record straight.
Enjoying both rewatching all of TOS, then checking out the comparisons here ep by ep. (great work BTW.) Still, the original of this one holds up pretty well.
I understand changing up some of the shots where the original was using heavily recycled stock shots. But for unique shots I think they should preserve the original framing/positioning closely.
The funny thing is: Ifeel like the original Tholian vessel is more creepy and more alien. It looks like a mere colored geometrical figure. Why should alien vessels follow our human standarts design? With propulsion and detail. I feel like a real alien vessel should be just more geometrical and maybe with less details, cause they probably didn´t follow the same path we did,specially a geometrical race like he Tholians. Also, such a shame we didnt got to see more of them in other series...
They did appear in other series! In DS9, ENT, & TNG, in fact! Here are the episodes that I speak of: DS9: For the Cause ENT: Future Tense TNG: Captains Holiday So we did see them in the other series (for the most part). :D Footnote: Tholian Silk was mentioned in DS9, the episode: The Way of the Warrior, as a rare commodity.
Curiously, whereas in TOS the Tholians took several hours in the context of the story to spin their web completely around the Enterprise, in Enterprise, 100 or so years beforehand, they were able to erect webs to contain the Constitution-class Defiant in mere seconds.
One of the better episodes of Season Three, imo, although the bit with a supposedly transparent Kirk floating around in space, arms outstretched and pleading was a bit overkill. But then, that was typical Bill, lol! It wouldn't have been Star Trek without him hamming it up. I must admit, this is one if those instances where the digital enhancements were an improvement. The 60's effects showing the Defiant fading in and out of the universe looked like someone was having a bit too much fun with glitter. When it finally did disappear, it was too abrupt, like, now you see it, now you don't. The CGI just gave it that eerie green, wavering glow, making the Defiant appear not entirely substantial, and then it just eventually faded away, which is how it should have been. They did not change the apearance of the Tholian commander, which I felt was a wise move. The updating of the Tholian ships, and the more weblike appearance of the "laser web" the ships discharged was perfect, and provided a creepy, spiderlike appearace. I kinda always wondered if the Tholians weren't just giant spider-like creatures, anyway. The thought totally makes me shudder, as I have major arachnophobia. Thank you for a well-rendered, taut, sharp video of the episodes side by side. It's always a treat to watch. I hope you've been able to settle your issue w/ RUclips. Honestly, they can be so aggravating!
Yes, the floating Kirk was lame. And it begs why this time an antiquated looking space suit like something from a bad 1950s sci-fi? Most every episode has some similar to earth like atmosphere. This unlikelihood would always get my dad goin.
I dunno, I actually kinda like the new effects. Nothing beats the originals, of course, but I still like the Remastered stuff. Especially when they actually bother to show ships that they couldn't show in the originals, or when they spice up the models or have new camera angles.
0:47 If there's anything about the remastered versions that bothers me a bit (other than re-recording the theme tune), it's how the font of 'U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701' doesn't quite match the font in the original. And yet in some remastered episodes like "Balance of Terror", "Miri", "Arena", "The Devil in the Dark", "The City on the Edge of Forever", "Catspaw", "Mirror, Mirror" and "I, Mudd", it does appear with the correct font. And I believe these were actually the first few episodes to be remastered. So how did they manage to get the font right in the first few remastered episodes and then later screw it up with the rest?
Hi Andrew, not sure if you know it but they actually used TWO different CGI models. The first one was highly detailed, but it took way too much time to render it, so they switched to a lower resolution model. So MAYBE it can be an explanation for the different font?
@@TrekkieChannel Hmm, yeah I did notice the CGI in earlier remastered episodes look different to the rest. But then, they did remastered episodes with the lower resolution CGI models where other Federation ships like the Exeter and the Lexington have the correct font. And yet the Enterprise still has the different font in those same episodes.
I actually like the original exterior shot of the Enterprise in the opening.The film grain adds a sense of mass and scale that the CGI version destroys. The CGI version looks too smooth like a little plastic toy.
@@katherinkeegan8601 They were trying to update them a little to allow younger audiences a lower barrier of entry into the series - I think that's a laudable effort, it was not done for naught. I'll take a small amount of respectful CGI on an old series to polish it up to appeal to a new crowd, over a significant rewriting of characters, lore, and adding gratuitous violence and swearing for the same reasons (a la Discovery, Picard) any day. Not that I'm drawing conclusions about your comment - merely pointing out two alternative strategies that CBS has taken in order to win new audiences.
The funny thing is Nutrek really is not winning new audiences. They only get more seasons for the lure of selling the streaming service, not the shows themselves so "ratings" have no relevance in this business model.
The CGI Enterprise just looks too clean and cartoony. The shots of the model obviously have more grain, but they look more "real." Half of the charm of the original show is lost with the new effects.
could not agree more...i think the CGI Enterprise looks too much like the, "Animated Series" Enterprise...i don't know why people feel compelled to "fix" older things with new technology...i didn't like it when Lucas did it with Star Wars, and i don't like it here, either...
@@sseltrek1a2b I much prefer the new effects over the old which have become badly dated. However, unlike Lucas, both versions are available on the blu-rays so you can choose your preference. I can have the newer effects and you can have the old, we both win!
I watched this episode with my nephew at one point and he thought at the end that Kirk missed his chair lol. Makes sense in a way I suppose not to mention the part from the movie where he says “I miss my old chair” to Bones.
Tholians are already supposed to be a bizarre transdimensional alien species anyhow ... so in this instance I think it's actually better to have their ships look like blurry chromatic VFX artifacts than like "realistic" spacecraft.
I'm one of those rare few who's actually totally fine with the new effects, but I have to ask...what was with the _Defiant's_ sudden angle swap at 1:18-1:25?
Growing up watching the remastered version with my Dad, just feels right to me. As a kid It always confused me how it had such good graphics for being an older show.
6:41 I don't know why, but the enterprise popping into existence creeps me up. (cgi effects) It's probably because of the lightning. The cgi version has darkness all around the ship (except for the small ship lights) while the original one is totally bright.
What I wonder is why they changed the angle often with the CGI versions? Like, I get that the original was limited in what they could do but why not try to match it? What's interesting is that the writers tapped into this mystery in Star Trek: Enterprise by having the Defiant as a key narrative component and a way to callback to TOS.
My biggest disappointment in this episode is that they did not upgrade that cheesy image of the Tholian commander. I've always wondered why they didn't do that.
@@TrekkieChannel They also didn't redo that cheesy alien in _Spectre_ _of_ _the_ _Gun._ I'm wondering if it's a legal thing since those effects had a voice actor behind them and changing that would be like changing the actor's performance.
@@spockvskhan4561 I don't think so. They had spent the money to redo everything else but left the cheesy alien? Also, in _Spectre_ _of_ _the_ _Gun,_ there weren't many space shots. The cheesy alien was the number one thing that needed a CGI upgrade. I think it had to be some kind of contractual limitation.
Cinema is art and modifying it as they did with Star Trek is a violation. Imagine editing The Mona Lisa to lighten her hair and make her slimmer. (Sorry, I'm using Google's translator)
Didn’t they also slightly redo the bridge viewscreen shot of the Tholian itself? It was made higher res and it turned very slightly to the left and right..
The original design of the Tholian scout ships is still the best. The essence of alien technology and mystery was compromised and diluted by making the ships look more contemporary.
I prefer the original Tholian ships. They had a more unique color scheme and if you take it with the recent lore that they are creatures derived of extreme heat then it makes more sense the exterior of their ship looks like it radiates heat. The new ones are pretty generic.
Agreed. Art is supposed to be stylized, not an imitation of a news clip. It's like "remastering" the Mona Lisa by replacing her with a selfie of some woman named Mona.
At the time they didn’t realize what interphase actually entailed and thought they had to stay where they were in order to have another chance at retrieving Kirk. The Tholians only had two ships [one damaged] to build the web, which seemed intended merely to trap an enemy. We saw in ENT that several ships can actually throw that up quickly and that it can even crush an unshieled ship if that’s what they want to do. It also showed that what they were really trying to do was capture a Starfleet ship.
Did you watch the episode? the entire story is about wether or not they do that; saving the captain & getting trapped or abandoning the captain in alternate dimension & leaving.
@5:32 the model on the left looks like a real ship...that's what a model does... it looks real because it is real... on the right is looks like an old video game ship.... They should have kept the models when it looked better and left them alone when it didn't -- it would be nice to show kids what a fucking awesome model looked like....
I like the more dynamic angles of the defiant in the cgi version, but there is something to be said about the way the old models looked. The cgi is a little too smooth in some places. I am surprised by how well the original effects hold up. I have a lot of respect for the bluray releases of TOS because they let you choose between the original and cgi effects. I think its a great way preserving the hard work of the original vfx artists while still allowing people to enjoy the updated versions.
One of the crew members You can see the distorted surroundings As the crew member seen it. Point is You can see what it looks like suffering with M.S. (Multiple sclerosis)
Why did they put such strong directional lighting on the Enterprise shots. Unless the ship is close to a star, I think the original more diffuse lighting makes more sense. There are a few CGI exterior shots where you can see individual panels skinning the saucer section which looks pretty good, but typically you cant see that detail and it just looks smooth and therefore smaller.
Having seen the originals so many times as a kid, and now watching the CGI for the first time on MeTV, I don't like it. Hope they never do this to 2001: A Space Odyssey!!
The original had a such nicer star field, and I kind of liked the garish colors for the Tholian vessel. The remake, though, had much better shots of the web...more panning and better angles.
Thank you for making the comparison. I wish they would leave the original effects alone. That goes for all movies. Half of the reason we watch old movies/shows is because of nostalgia. After watching this, I'm even more impressed by what they were able to achieve in 1968. I agree with the other posters that the original practical effects, even if they are a little cheesy, are still more convincing than the CGI effects, which always look animated and unreal.
@@petedrake3330 long story short- i was just learning how to edit (still am to be honest). I knew that I want to show the clips in proper context, so originally I left unchanged shots in if they were between 2 changed shots, but people kept asking me what was changed in those scenes. So I started to switch the unchanged shots to black and white, because I thought everybody owns the DVDs and reads the discussions, but then people kept asking me why are some shots in black and white. So i gave up. Now I 'm thinking how to reedit the videos in 2025
Good video, thanks. I think on the whole the new CGI is done well and doesn't jar in terms of the story. The only thing I felt with seeing them side by side was I wasn't convinced by the Tholian ship being hit by the phasers, but if I was just watching it on its own it probably wouldn't seem an issue. I did like the original's more vivid colours too. At least the originals still exist, and I think that's very important - while I think there are some definite improvements with the new versions, it's disrespectful to the original creators to just erase them from history, so I'm glad we still have the option.
As I've watched these videos I've come to the conclusion that certain effects -- such as the CGI planet surfaces -- are nice improvements to the overall look. Yet I feel they are not significantly better than the original effects. Certainly with a much larger budget they could've created fantastic improvements had they chosen to do so, but we're probably not far from the point where CGI could reproduce all the original actors in new stories.
"much larger budget" Well,.... you mustn't forget that these replacement CGI effects are now already 16 years old. They worked on the remastered TOS back in 2005 and 2006 for the then-upcoming 40th Anniversary. More importantly, they worked on it with a TV budget of its pre-streaming era and I am fairly convinced that even that budget was not the greatest in comparison with the absolutely best TV productions (meaning the best-financed in this case) from the given time period. Heck, Star Trek: Enterprise (2001-2005), Stargate SG-1 (its later seasons) or Battlestar Galactica (started in 2003) all sport NUMEROUS much better VFX shots than the remastered TOS.
I like the models better. When you see the Enterprise top saucer section with the warp engine lights running, CGI pales in comparison. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I don't know how an energy weapon can physically 'knock away' the Tholian ship. A photon torpedo, perhaps..Some new effects looked good, others did nothing for me.. Was nice to see new angles of the Defiant instead of watching stock footage of the Enterprise to represent the Defiant..
I’ll be honest. I prefer the original to the remake on this occasion. My big reason is that the Defiant is such a strange pitch. I feel they wanted to just show how much of an “improvement” they could make. But it just ends up looking weird.
100% agree. The angles they show of the Defiant are too often from the underside, which is the least appealing view of a Constitution-class starship. The original had the better angles.
Starting at 4:35, I so much prefer the original effects. The lines the two ships made were mesmerizing. The new cgi, though sparkly, seems rather dull by comparison. I'm going to have to find the bluray discs with the originals!
What is with this remastered bashing? I understand that all of you prefer the original effects and that’s fine. But come on. It is very childish to bash on the version just to give an artistic take of today.
I don't understand why some of the scenes involving the crew are in black and white. Did I miss something? I don't think the CGI adds anything to this episode. In fact the scene where the CGI Tholian ship gets hit by the Enterprise phasers looks awful. The way the Tholian ship gets pushed backwards in the new version looks really terrible and more like a video game.
The original effects had improved a lot in this last season. I was comparing and thought for once that not all the new cg work was an improvement. Also, they missed the blinking lights on the Enterprise on a few occasions. Btw, what’s with the B&W ?
I generally like the alterations the made to the series. However I like the orginal version of this better. The CGI isn't bad. It just isn't is more engaging because both vessels are the same orientation which is a bit more unsettling.
Actually, the CGI starfields are more accurate from an astronomical viewpoint than the original. Think about it: how many stars do you know of that can move FTL? And don't say that it's the _Enterprise_ moving because stars are light years apart and even at FTL speeds, it would be some time before a star's position would change.
If you watched the Star Trek: Enterprise episode _In_ _A_ _Mirror,_ _Darkly,_ you would know. Once the web is completed, it begins to contract and destroys whatever is contained within it.
@@TXKafir Thanks...That was my best guess--that it would act in a similar fashion to a Predator's net. There was never a mention in TOS if the deflectors or phasers/photon torpedoes would be effective. Also, the Enterprsie only had 76% percent power. When Spock ordered to the engines to full capability. What exactly did that do? That! was never explained.
@@spockvskhan4561 Depending on who's fan theory you believe, Spocks orders caused the warp drive to create a bubble of inter-phase within a warp field. The result was the Enterprise being able to pass through the Tholean field and cover a vast distance easily. Basically, the Enterprise created the TransWarp drive. The Excelsior needed a massive amount of power to create the same field outside of Tholean space. My theory, at least.
@@markraymond3886 I appreciate your explanation, but the warp drive theory was never explained or alluded to as you stated in the original series.The Enterprise was being dragged into an energy field that would have compressed/crushed the Enterprise. The Enterprise was able to pull away from the weapon at the end before the web was completed.
@@spockvskhan4561 Very true, again. My theory was just based on other fan theories. Exactly how the warp drive works was never explained in the TOS. I think the writers left it that way on purpose. It's fans like us that want to figure it out. I've heard some good ones over the years.
I've done it years ago, if you can't see it on my channel it's probably blocked, different videos are blocked in different countries (thank you, CBS). Go to my channel and go to playlists, you will find there playlists for visual effects comparisons for all 3 seasons
For my tastes, although I appreciate the extra clarity and continuity, the new effects are always trying too hard to be realistic and dynamic, and don’t fit in with the rest of the very 60/70s looking visuals. Star Trek TOS has a very distinct style of simple shapes and bright contrasting colours, these don’t. Happily, on the home releases, you can turn them off.
In this one episode the OG fx were FAR superior. So much so this episode was nominated for an Emmy award for it's FX.. WTF was it running against? Lost in Space was cancelled a year earlier.😮😮😮
This is just another example. Of one of these big corporate conglomerates. CBS Studios, Paramount, et al. Needed to put these more modern enhancements of computer-generated animation. So they can write the cost of the unnecessary postproduction. Off of their corporate taxes. And so it's also plain to see. The Original, really cannot be beat. It did not need to be modernized. Why don't they just go ahead and modernize and computerize. All of the old, Flash Gordon episodes. To make it look like it was all created within a computer. Instead of a little carved and painted wooden toy, spaceship. Dangling from a string. So all of these modern enhancements and eye-catching upgrades. Make it feel so fake now. Trying to make alien planets more closely resemble the earth. Which we absolutely positively, know. The original more unrealistic 1966 version. Might in fact have planets that look very much like that. And so the enhancements are just trying to, inject the only narrowminded thing they know. Assuming all habitable planets have to look like ours.. So, what do we see when we view Venus, from above? Thick LA smog. So thick you cannot see the terrain of the ground. And all you see from above. Is a swirl of, softserve, piping hot, ice cream.. We all scream.. On the surface of Venus. For an ice cream in a burning hell. But not for long. You won't be waiting long. You will melt before the ice cream. I pray for all my Christian friends as an atheist. RemyRAD
For this one, I prefer the original effects. The CGI effects showed the Defiant too many times from the underside, which isn't the most appealing angle for a Constitution-class ship.
In some cases I like the original effects. Theres more texture, the uncrtainties of real models and lighting make for a more convincing set up. CGI can be way to smooth for a real universe. Look at 0:48, which looks more like a real spaceship?
Yes the CGI looks good... I have no issues with releasing the series in HD, but to replace the original effects with CGI is an insult to the artists who created the show.
Let's see -- what would I prefer? 1) Listening to classic Deep Purple songs with the original guitar parts and solos played by Ritchie Blackmore, OR 2) Having Yngwie Malmsteen (a player of undoubtedly far greater chops and technical ability) overdub all the parts and solos? Hmmmm.......WHICH do you suppose I'd prefer...?
![Star Trek - Where No Man Has Gone Before - Visual Effects Comparison [redux]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zd1b_JP9Tsk/mqdefault.jpg)
![Star Trek - Where No Man Has Gone Before - Visual Effects Comparison [redux]](/img/tr.png)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
After watching a few of these videos I find I prefer the original practical effects over the CGI in a lot of places. Specially for the shots of the Enterprise. examples at 0:43 and 3:23, in the original FX the ship has character, shading and some bumps and bruises, the CGI is too clean and unblemished, and I'll never not love that profile shot of the old girl.
That one ship changed the course of history in the parallel universe.
Thanks to the Tholians of the parrallel universe when they detenated tri cobalt warhead it open a door to our universe they sent a fake distress call though it to lure a ship from our side the U.S.S. DEFIANT responded and was pulled in as the DEFIANT was interphasing the crew went insane killed each other and DEFIANT appeared in the mirror universe .
@@andysahs1599 Thats exactly what I and many cannon sources are actualy betting on Infact thats what connects this piece of copyrighted cannon TOS content to ST Enterprise Eppisode A Mirror Darkley where the ISS Enterprise manages to find and liberate the Interphasicly displaced TOS Defiant from the Mirror Universe Tholian Asteroid base.
Those were awesome Enterprise episodes. I think it was an underrated series....
george martin
Very much underrated. It’s a shame it was the only ST show to have so much meddling from the network; it was only when that ass Moonves cancelled it, he left it alone and we got the mighty season 4
Doing a call-back episode with the Defiant in the Enterprise series was extremely clever; it's a shame they didn't do a better job with the script. Archer and the rest of the crew trying to act evil was just embarrassing....
The Defiant rippling in the CGI effect was kind of cool. Trouble is, the physical models look so much more believable. The CGI ships look like computer images. The models look like real vessels.
One honest correction to the credits:
Written by Judy Burns & Chet Richards
Directed by Herb Wallerstein AND Ralph Senensky
Ralph was fired halfway through filming this episode. On his website, he identifies which scenes are his and he sets the record straight.
Correct, I mentioned it in my "Quick thoughts on" video about this episode
interestingly not all the effects are an improvement
Yup! Some of the old effects definitely look better than the new ones.
I think it is almost none of them are an improvement.
@@therugburnz I'm inclined to agree. They needed to do as little to the original material as possible.
Enjoying both rewatching all of TOS, then checking out the comparisons here ep by ep. (great work BTW.) Still, the original of this one holds up pretty well.
0:45 Original effect : rich texture, vivid lights, soul / CGI : dull, flat , lifeless
Yeah.. The original looks like some weird and interesting stuff going on. CGI looks like a cheap glow in the dark toy.
Agreed
Bullshit ! ! !
Original effect : poor quality, grainy / CGI : Clean, sharp, exactly as it would be
I understand changing up some of the shots where the original was using heavily recycled stock shots. But for unique shots I think they should preserve the original framing/positioning closely.
That makes sense. I don't think they kept an impulse turn like from "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," and the promo for the next episode.
The funny thing is: Ifeel like the original Tholian vessel is more creepy and more alien. It looks like a mere colored geometrical figure. Why should alien vessels follow our human standarts design? With propulsion and detail. I feel like a real alien vessel should be just more geometrical and maybe with less details, cause they probably didn´t follow the same path we did,specially a geometrical race like he Tholians. Also, such a shame we didnt got to see more of them in other series...
They did appear in other series! In DS9, ENT, & TNG, in fact! Here are the episodes that I speak of:
DS9: For the Cause
ENT: Future Tense
TNG: Captains Holiday
So we did see them in the other series (for the most part). :D
Footnote: Tholian Silk was mentioned in DS9, the episode: The Way of the Warrior, as a rare commodity.
Curiously, whereas in TOS the Tholians took several hours in the context of the story to spin their web completely around the Enterprise, in Enterprise, 100 or so years beforehand, they were able to erect webs to contain the Constitution-class Defiant in mere seconds.
@@TheDetailsMatter They were “mirror Tholians” maybe they had some technological advances to our Tholians.
1:32 is actually the best film I’ve seen of the Enterprise model.
One of the better episodes of Season Three, imo, although the bit with a supposedly transparent Kirk floating around in space, arms outstretched and pleading was a bit overkill. But then, that was typical Bill, lol! It wouldn't have been Star Trek without him hamming it up.
I must admit, this is one if those instances where the digital enhancements were an improvement. The 60's effects showing the Defiant fading in and out of the universe looked like someone was having a bit too much fun with glitter. When it finally did disappear, it was too abrupt, like, now you see it, now you don't. The CGI just gave it that eerie green, wavering glow, making the Defiant appear not entirely substantial, and then it just eventually faded away, which is how it should have been. They did not change the apearance of the Tholian commander, which I felt was a wise move. The updating of the Tholian ships, and the more weblike appearance of the "laser web" the ships discharged was perfect, and provided a creepy, spiderlike appearace. I kinda always wondered if the Tholians weren't just giant spider-like creatures, anyway. The thought totally makes me shudder, as I have major arachnophobia.
Thank you for a well-rendered, taut, sharp video of the episodes side by side. It's always a treat to watch. I hope you've been able to settle your issue w/ RUclips. Honestly, they can be so aggravating!
Yes, the floating Kirk was lame. And it begs why this time an antiquated looking space suit like something from a bad 1950s sci-fi? Most every episode has some similar to earth like atmosphere. This unlikelihood would always get my dad goin.
Is it me, or are a good many of the original effects a lot better?
It's not JUST you
Yup. The effects on this show outweigh modern CGI. Film and scratch built models are still king.
Count me in on original effects on ALL episodes.
I dunno, I actually kinda like the new effects. Nothing beats the originals, of course, but I still like the Remastered stuff. Especially when they actually bother to show ships that they couldn't show in the originals, or when they spice up the models or have new camera angles.
It would seem so Capt.
It's funny how in the TOS, it took like a long time for the Tholian Web to complete. While in the ENT, it barely took a second.
The original Tholian ship is better. Something really elegant and organic about the design that added a real alien look to it.
0:47 If there's anything about the remastered versions that bothers me a bit (other than re-recording the theme tune), it's how the font of 'U.S.S. ENTERPRISE NCC-1701' doesn't quite match the font in the original. And yet in some remastered episodes like "Balance of Terror", "Miri", "Arena", "The Devil in the Dark", "The City on the Edge of Forever", "Catspaw", "Mirror, Mirror" and "I, Mudd", it does appear with the correct font. And I believe these were actually the first few episodes to be remastered. So how did they manage to get the font right in the first few remastered episodes and then later screw it up with the rest?
Hi Andrew, not sure if you know it but they actually used TWO different CGI models. The first one was highly detailed, but it took way too much time to render it, so they switched to a lower resolution model. So MAYBE it can be an explanation for the different font?
@@TrekkieChannel Hmm, yeah I did notice the CGI in earlier remastered episodes look different to the rest. But then, they did remastered episodes with the lower resolution CGI models where other Federation ships like the Exeter and the Lexington have the correct font. And yet the Enterprise still has the different font in those same episodes.
I actually like the original exterior shot of the Enterprise in the opening.The film grain adds a sense of mass and scale that the CGI version destroys. The CGI version looks too smooth like a little plastic toy.
Exactly!
@Alex Kurtzman With a name like that, im gonna assume you're trolling
The cgi shuttlecraft in galileo 7 looks so awful
They took a model kit and made the Constellation with a na-celle that wasn't glued parallel to the other, which they reused in a later episode.
10/10
These re-masters were so respectful to the look and tone of the original show. They never take you out of the story.
They also are not a major improvement. Change for the sake of change only is no improvement.
@@katherinkeegan8601 They were trying to update them a little to allow younger audiences a lower barrier of entry into the series - I think that's a laudable effort, it was not done for naught.
I'll take a small amount of respectful CGI on an old series to polish it up to appeal to a new crowd, over a significant rewriting of characters, lore, and adding gratuitous violence and swearing for the same reasons (a la Discovery, Picard) any day. Not that I'm drawing conclusions about your comment - merely pointing out two alternative strategies that CBS has taken in order to win new audiences.
@@m0rthaus Some of the effects look way worse though
The funny thing is Nutrek really is not winning new audiences. They only get more seasons for the lure of selling the streaming service, not the shows themselves so "ratings" have no relevance in this business model.
@@katherinkeegan8601 i think the motivation was the bluray release as those practical effects don't upscale well
Yup ...this was the best of the original special effects ... it would have been nice if all three seasons had been this good ...
The CGI Enterprise just looks too clean and cartoony. The shots of the model obviously have more grain, but they look more "real." Half of the charm of the original show is lost with the new effects.
That's why I love the fact that they have given us BOTH versions in similar quality on the Blu-ray releases
could not agree more...i think the CGI Enterprise looks too much like the, "Animated Series" Enterprise...i don't know why people feel compelled to "fix" older things with new technology...i didn't like it when Lucas did it with Star Wars, and i don't like it here, either...
@@sseltrek1a2b I much prefer the new effects over the old which have become badly dated. However, unlike Lucas, both versions are available on the blu-rays so you can choose your preference. I can have the newer effects and you can have the old, we both win!
I watched this episode with my nephew at one point and he thought at the end that Kirk missed his chair lol. Makes sense in a way I suppose not to mention the part from the movie where he says “I miss my old chair” to Bones.
I realize the way they lit the old Tholian ships wasn’t accurate, but it looked so much more dynamic and interesting having them 3 colors.
Tholians are already supposed to be a bizarre transdimensional alien species anyhow ... so in this instance I think it's actually better to have their ships look like blurry chromatic VFX artifacts than like "realistic" spacecraft.
These are good videos...thanks!
Thanks for watching!
I like the idea of putting both pics side by side. So good job there. But the disruption of the fading in and out meant I couldn't watch for long...
I'm one of those rare few who's actually totally fine with the new effects, but I have to ask...what was with the _Defiant's_ sudden angle swap at 1:18-1:25?
Good question
She is drifting.
Growing up watching the remastered version with my Dad, just feels right to me. As a kid It always confused me how it had such good graphics for being an older show.
Oh goodness. I'm startting to say "fascinating" in my old age of 57.
I love the GGI Effects. It makes feel like I'm watching the episode for the first time
4:16 on the CGI model.. Dafuq is that movement supposed to be.. lol
My favorite episode, Spock at his most 'spockiest'.
And a damn fine commander. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.
The tholian web has to be the most impractical weapon ever conceived (although they did improve it in ST ENT)
LOL,several hours to escape, lets just hold position!
6:41
I don't know why, but the enterprise popping into existence creeps me up. (cgi effects)
It's probably because of the lightning. The cgi version has darkness all around the ship (except for the small ship lights) while the original one is totally bright.
What I wonder is why they changed the angle often with the CGI versions? Like, I get that the original was limited in what they could do but why not try to match it?
What's interesting is that the writers tapped into this mystery in Star Trek: Enterprise by having the Defiant as a key narrative component and a way to callback to TOS.
My biggest disappointment in this episode is that they did not upgrade that cheesy image of the Tholian commander. I've always wondered why they didn't do that.
Yes, they could re-do the creature in a similar way as they did in Enterprise
@@TrekkieChannel They also didn't redo that cheesy alien in _Spectre_ _of_ _the_ _Gun._ I'm wondering if it's a legal thing since those effects had a voice actor behind them and changing that would be like changing the actor's performance.
@@TXKafir Everything is possible
Budget.
@@spockvskhan4561 I don't think so. They had spent the money to redo everything else but left the cheesy alien? Also, in _Spectre_ _of_ _the_ _Gun,_ there weren't many space shots. The cheesy alien was the number one thing that needed a CGI upgrade. I think it had to be some kind of contractual limitation.
Cinema is art and modifying it as they did with Star Trek is a violation. Imagine editing The Mona Lisa to lighten her hair and make her slimmer. (Sorry, I'm using Google's translator)
Or giving her a duckface. But as I say - we can be glad that we have BOTH versions of the episodes on the Blu-ray release
They only did it so the younger generation wouldn’t watch it and make fun of the effects
I agree with the top poster of this thread
Mr. Sulu uses a device such as a monitor, apparently in series with CGI effects, is deployed alone.
Didn’t they also slightly redo the bridge viewscreen shot of the Tholian itself? It was made higher res and it turned very slightly to the left and right..
I don't think they did. Maybe it's just a difference in the quality of the transfers?
@@TrekkieChannel Check out this video:
ruclips.net/video/N_gJkPNd96w/видео.html
You can see the Tholian commander turn ever so slightly..
The original design of the Tholian scout ships is still the best. The essence of alien technology and mystery was compromised and diluted by making the ships look more contemporary.
Mr. Sulu uses a device such as a monitor, apparently in series with CGI effects, is deployed alone. May be?
I prefer the original Tholian ships. They had a more unique color scheme and if you take it with the recent lore that they are creatures derived of extreme heat then it makes more sense the exterior of their ship looks like it radiates heat. The new ones are pretty generic.
The problem with CGI is that, the more "realistic" it tries to be, the more artificial it feels.
Agreed. Art is supposed to be stylized, not an imitation of a news clip. It's like "remastering" the Mona Lisa by replacing her with a selfie of some woman named Mona.
I always hated the Tholian Web idea, how can you just sit there and let them build a cage around you. This idea really annoyed me in Enterprise too.
At the time they didn’t realize what interphase actually entailed and thought they had to stay where they were in order to have another chance at retrieving Kirk. The Tholians only had two ships [one damaged] to build the web, which seemed intended merely to trap an enemy. We saw in ENT that several ships can actually throw that up quickly and that it can even crush an unshieled ship if that’s what they want to do. It also showed that what they were really trying to do was capture a Starfleet ship.
Did you watch the episode? the entire story is about wether or not they do that; saving the captain & getting trapped or abandoning the captain in alternate dimension & leaving.
THE ORIGINAL WAS JUST GROOVY BABY!
@5:32 the model on the left looks like a real ship...that's what a model does... it looks real because it is real... on the right is looks like an old video game ship.... They should have kept the models when it looked better and left them alone when it didn't -- it would be nice to show kids what a fucking awesome model looked like....
Does anyone know if it's possible to get the non-CGI versions in Europe?
As a European guy I can recommend the official Blu-ray sets, they have two versions of each episode and were the source of these comparison videos
I like the more dynamic angles of the defiant in the cgi version, but there is something to be said about the way the old models looked. The cgi is a little too smooth in some places.
I am surprised by how well the original effects hold up. I have a lot of respect for the bluray releases of TOS because they let you choose between the original and cgi effects. I think its a great way preserving the hard work of the original vfx artists while still allowing people to enjoy the updated versions.
why are some scenes in black and white?
Because they contain no differences
This episode is the most intense Star Trek show I've ever seen from the original cast.
- Where are we now, Mr Spock?
- In the Mirror Universe.
:P
The Original Viewscreen from the Cage Briefing Room @2:40.
Seems to me they had more better shots/sfx this season of the ships??
One of the crew members
You can see the distorted surroundings
As the crew member seen it.
Point is
You can see what it looks like suffering with
M.S.
(Multiple sclerosis)
Why did they put such strong directional lighting on the Enterprise shots. Unless the ship is close to a star, I think the original more diffuse lighting makes more sense. There are a few CGI exterior shots where you can see individual panels skinning the saucer section which looks pretty good, but typically you cant see that detail and it just looks smooth and therefore smaller.
Having seen the originals so many times as a kid, and now watching the CGI for the first time on MeTV, I don't like it. Hope they never do this to 2001: A Space Odyssey!!
What's with the weird desaturation?
The black and white scenes have no changes done to them and are kept in the video only for "continuity purposes"
The original had a such nicer star field, and I kind of liked the garish colors for the Tholian vessel.
The remake, though, had much better shots of the web...more panning and better angles.
So did Kirk ACTUALLY see the mirror universe of 2155 while in limbo????
Thank you for making the comparison. I wish they would leave the original effects alone. That goes for all movies. Half of the reason we watch old movies/shows is because of nostalgia.
After watching this, I'm even more impressed by what they were able to achieve in 1968. I agree with the other posters that the original practical effects, even if they are a little cheesy, are still more convincing than the CGI effects, which always look animated and unreal.
i till think the practical effects are more visually appealing to the eyes.
I wonder why the black and white clips?
@@petedrake3330 long story short- i was just learning how to edit (still am to be honest). I knew that I want to show the clips in proper context, so originally I left unchanged shots in if they were between 2 changed shots, but people kept asking me what was changed in those scenes. So I started to switch the unchanged shots to black and white, because I thought everybody owns the DVDs and reads the discussions, but then people kept asking me why are some shots in black and white. So i gave up. Now I 'm thinking how to reedit the videos in 2025
Good video, thanks. I think on the whole the new CGI is done well and doesn't jar in terms of the story. The only thing I felt with seeing them side by side was I wasn't convinced by the Tholian ship being hit by the phasers, but if I was just watching it on its own it probably wouldn't seem an issue. I did like the original's more vivid colours too. At least the originals still exist, and I think that's very important - while I think there are some definite improvements with the new versions, it's disrespectful to the original creators to just erase them from history, so I'm glad we still have the option.
The shuttlecrafts were done really badly in the cgi version.. I don't care what the originals looked like, the cgi one was as bad as it can get.
As I've watched these videos I've come to the conclusion that certain effects -- such as the CGI planet surfaces -- are nice improvements to the overall look. Yet I feel they are not significantly better than the original effects. Certainly with a much larger budget they could've created fantastic improvements had they chosen to do so, but we're probably not far from the point where CGI could reproduce all the original actors in new stories.
"much larger budget"
Well,.... you mustn't forget that these replacement CGI effects are now already 16 years old. They worked on the remastered TOS back in 2005 and 2006 for the then-upcoming 40th Anniversary.
More importantly, they worked on it with a TV budget of its pre-streaming era and I am fairly convinced that even that budget was not the greatest in comparison with the absolutely best TV productions (meaning the best-financed in this case) from the given time period.
Heck, Star Trek: Enterprise (2001-2005), Stargate SG-1 (its later seasons) or Battlestar Galactica (started in 2003) all sport NUMEROUS much better VFX shots than the remastered TOS.
"If it aint broke, why fix it?"
Again - The Old effects were better up til the 4:34 mark.
Thank God they fixed phasers that fire out at an angle and converge two secs later lol.
I like the models better. When you see the Enterprise top saucer section with the warp engine lights running, CGI pales in comparison. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I don't know how an energy weapon can physically 'knock away' the Tholian ship. A photon torpedo, perhaps..Some new effects looked good, others did nothing for me..
Was nice to see new angles of the Defiant instead of watching stock footage of the Enterprise to represent the Defiant..
So you don't accept tractor beams or transporters either then? They both move physical mass through energy waves.
The original TOS effects of the Tholian Web and the Tholian ships were more visually stunning than the remastered ones.
I’ll be honest. I prefer the original to the remake on this occasion. My big reason is that the Defiant is such a strange pitch.
I feel they wanted to just show how much of an “improvement” they could make. But it just ends up looking weird.
100% agree. The angles they show of the Defiant are too often from the underside, which is the least appealing view of a Constitution-class starship. The original had the better angles.
Starting at 4:35, I so much prefer the original effects. The lines the two ships made were mesmerizing. The new cgi, though sparkly, seems rather dull by comparison. I'm going to have to find the bluray discs with the originals!
What is with this remastered bashing? I understand that all of you prefer the original effects and that’s fine. But come on. It is very childish to bash on the version just to give an artistic take of today.
Especially when BOTH versions are available in the same quality, unlike other franchises with "Star" in the title
I don't understand why some of the scenes involving the crew are in black and white. Did I miss something?
I don't think the CGI adds anything to this episode. In fact the scene where the CGI Tholian ship gets hit by the Enterprise phasers looks awful. The way the Tholian ship gets pushed backwards in the new version looks really terrible and more like a video game.
Where are the stars?
The original effects had improved a lot in this last season. I was comparing and thought for once that not all the new cg work was an improvement. Also, they missed the blinking lights on the Enterprise on a few occasions.
Btw, what’s with the B&W ?
The black and white shots were not changed are included only for context
I generally like the alterations the made to the series. However I like the orginal version of this better. The CGI isn't bad. It just isn't is more engaging because both vessels are the same orientation which is a bit more unsettling.
Why are the GCI star fields so inferior to the original?
Actually, the CGI starfields are more accurate from an astronomical viewpoint than the original. Think about it: how many stars do you know of that can move FTL? And don't say that it's the _Enterprise_ moving because stars are light years apart and even at FTL speeds, it would be some time before a star's position would change.
It was never explained what was the danger of the "Tholian Web" to the Enterprise.
If you watched the Star Trek: Enterprise episode _In_ _A_ _Mirror,_ _Darkly,_ you would know. Once the web is completed, it begins to contract and destroys whatever is contained within it.
@@TXKafir Thanks...That was my best guess--that it would act in a similar fashion to a Predator's net. There was never a mention in TOS if the deflectors or phasers/photon torpedoes would be effective. Also, the Enterprsie only had 76% percent power. When Spock ordered to the engines to full capability. What exactly did that do? That! was never explained.
@@spockvskhan4561 Depending on who's fan theory you believe, Spocks orders caused the warp drive to create a bubble of inter-phase within a warp field. The result was the Enterprise being able to pass through the Tholean field and cover a vast distance easily. Basically, the Enterprise created the TransWarp drive. The Excelsior needed a massive amount of power to create the same field outside of Tholean space. My theory, at least.
@@markraymond3886 I appreciate your explanation, but the warp drive theory was never explained or alluded to as you stated in the original series.The Enterprise was being dragged into an energy field that would have compressed/crushed the Enterprise. The Enterprise was able to pull away from the weapon at the end before the web was completed.
@@spockvskhan4561 Very true, again. My theory was just based on other fan theories. Exactly how the warp drive works was never explained in the TOS. I think the writers left it that way on purpose. It's fans like us that want to figure it out. I've heard some good ones over the years.
Could you do one of the Doomsday Machine please?
I've done it years ago, if you can't see it on my channel it's probably blocked, different videos are blocked in different countries (thank you, CBS). Go to my channel and go to playlists, you will find there playlists for visual effects comparisons for all 3 seasons
You kept fading to black before I can even focus on the changes very annoying.
CBS still thinks I am showing too much...
For my tastes, although I appreciate the extra clarity and continuity, the new effects are always trying too hard to be realistic and dynamic, and don’t fit in with the rest of the very 60/70s looking visuals. Star Trek TOS has a very distinct style of simple shapes and bright contrasting colours, these don’t. Happily, on the home releases, you can turn them off.
6:43
in this particular episode as good as the cgi effects are i personally prefer the original. it had more character.
In this one episode the OG fx were FAR superior. So much so this episode was nominated for an Emmy award for it's FX.. WTF was it running against? Lost in Space was cancelled a year earlier.😮😮😮
I think I like the original effects (and perspectives) better.
This is just another example. Of one of these big corporate conglomerates. CBS Studios, Paramount, et al. Needed to put these more modern enhancements of computer-generated animation. So they can write the cost of the unnecessary postproduction. Off of their corporate taxes.
And so it's also plain to see. The Original, really cannot be beat. It did not need to be modernized. Why don't they just go ahead and modernize and computerize. All of the old, Flash Gordon episodes. To make it look like it was all created within a computer. Instead of a little carved and painted wooden toy, spaceship. Dangling from a string.
So all of these modern enhancements and eye-catching upgrades. Make it feel so fake now. Trying to make alien planets more closely resemble the earth. Which we absolutely positively, know. The original more unrealistic 1966 version. Might in fact have planets that look very much like that. And so the enhancements are just trying to, inject the only narrowminded thing they know. Assuming all habitable planets have to look like ours.. So, what do we see when we view Venus, from above? Thick LA smog. So thick you cannot see the terrain of the ground. And all you see from above. Is a swirl of, softserve, piping hot, ice cream.. We all scream.. On the surface of Venus. For an ice cream in a burning hell. But not for long. You won't be waiting long. You will melt before the ice cream.
I pray for all my Christian friends as an atheist.
RemyRAD
For this one, I prefer the original effects. The CGI effects showed the Defiant too many times from the underside, which isn't the most appealing angle for a Constitution-class ship.
In some cases I like the original effects. Theres more texture, the uncrtainties of real models and lighting make for a more convincing set up. CGI can be way to smooth for a real universe. Look at 0:48, which looks more like a real spaceship?
The cgi is too dark.
Just watched this episode on the CBS butchery channel U.K. freeview..NO black and white...edited to #uck
Really do you need to do a fade in fade out for every scene change. Just change scenes....
I much prefer, in the scene of the Tholian ship firing on the Enterprise, the original energy blast effect from the stupid swirly effect of the CGI.
Is it just me or do all the original shots create more emotion.
Like putting Shakespeare to rap
Cinematography is much better on originals. It's as if the animators have never studied film making, graphic design, or photography.
I much prefer the original effects.
This was one of the few TOS eps in which the original SFX were better than the Remastered version.
Personally I feel the original is better , than the future in style and persion
Yes the CGI looks good... I have no issues with releasing the series in HD, but to replace the original effects with CGI is an insult to the artists who created the show.
Original effects were not half bad in this episode.
It seems so unnecessary and sometimes inferior. It's like they changed it just to change it.
Let's see -- what would I prefer? 1) Listening to classic Deep Purple songs with the original guitar parts and solos played by Ritchie Blackmore, OR 2) Having Yngwie Malmsteen (a player of undoubtedly far greater chops and technical ability) overdub all the parts and solos? Hmmmm.......WHICH do you suppose I'd prefer...?