ANC shouldn't be lying to people and stop bringing up apartheid every time they are asked about their failures.The ANC has failed the country especially black people. period.
The ANC has failed minority groups far more than anybody else. Black people have far more privileges than any other race in the country. Stop thinking ANC has failed Black people when you have gotten more for free and gave more undue advantages than anybody else in the country Racist !
not so fun fact: in the 1990s south africa was ranked on the Corruption Perception Index in the 21st spot next to economies like Japan, Belgium, Austria. today it is ranked 83rd.
Digital social transactions have greatly reduced corruption in India. Now, social benefits for the poor come directly to their bank without paying any corrupt government men. I don't know how it is in South Africa. In Kerala (India) communist government distributed land from landlords to poor. The society has more equality now. In many North Indian states, landlords possess the majority of the land, and they are part of Indian politics. Thus, so much inequality there!!
@karabokhwiane7593 Yes ANC has ruined South Africa I'm black I used to support ANC until the Zuma Era.. if you know the kind of potential South Africa had and still has you wouldn't disagree that they ruined the country. If you know what happened to Eskom, what happened to SAA, to transnet and to all other state owned entities. If you know what happened at the borders to this point where we find ourselves with millions of foreigners in an economy that cannot even support the local. Do you know that our ports are so dysfunctional to the point that majority of cargos that are supposed to be shipped directly to SA are being shipped to Mozambique because in SA ports it takes forever to offload them. What led the food prices to go up? Did you go to university? Did you witness the outright corruption that is happening at that entity. I can go on forever man ANC has ran this country down after the Thabo Mbeki tenure.
This is such a one sided conversation. Thirty years later, we gained democracy but we have gone backwards economically. That's what it is all about. How can land reform make the economy better? Are you going to give the unemployed small parcels of land to farm? What about education, crime and corruption? Start at top and vote for people who can actually create an overall plan to kick start the economy, enforce the rule of law and let integrity rule the day no matter the colour of your skin. What every South African deserves is a job, a home, free health care and education.
I agree my sister the better solution I have is if the DA can have 30-35% of the votes next election then other black parties combined have 65-70%. It would be a well balanced government no one would want to embezzle the money and get away with it also the DA would not have absolute power to create laws that only seem good to the privileged ones. I do not doubt that the DA can make SA great again but I don't trust them enough to have majority votes.
The issue is not land trust me most black folks don’t care about the land so let’s not use scare tactics here. How can 8,5% of the SA population own 90% of means of production and economy that has been held for 500 years by whites then you come with that Zimbabwe when blacks are poor.
The whites have both land and economy ,EFF wants to take both, not just the land. There's nothing special about white people, what they can do we can also do.
It's so weird that coloured people are trying to push exclusive ownership of the khoi/san identity, when in reality, the khoi/san people were mostly absorbed by Xhosa and Tswana tribes.
If you visit the northern cape particularly the remote parts of it you would understand why. The link is blatant. The problem is these aren’t the people you think of when you hear “coloured”
@ RandomSoutgAfricanMan, the fact is is that archeology proves that the Xhosa came/moved down from central Africa more than 500 yrs ago. Yet the Khoi traded with the early travelers even before the Dutch came past cape of good hope.
True this first nation claim is not logical from the coloured community. How does a community who had to have other races exist before them and have them as offspring claim to be the first nation.🤔 Descendants is more accurate.
If the EFF can use the hate they have for fellow white South Africans to love their black communities, the country will change for better. Hating each other won't alleviate poverty in our communities.
@@siohonelson9078people with your mindset is the reason why racism will forever be a lingering problem. South Africa is a multiracial country. If you aren't gonna love every race just leave. And I say that as a black South African
A few corrections at the 3:30 minute mark. Black ownership on the JSE is closer to 70% than 30%. The biggest holder of equity is the government employees pension fund PIC. Second, every government policy leads towards favouring African people, through ruthless implementation of Apartheid policies. Third, the country is so transformed, it has to now be repaired. I can no longer watch this utter drivel.
Under white apartheid, there was total job reservation act ,only white had all good jobs ,not whites only had labour and low paying jobs. Indians played a major role in getting rid of apartheid since 1860. But under this Mandela government,there is a job reservation act called BEE ,that exclude lndians and coloureds Another racist act is entry to university and medical school, only a few lndians and coloured are allowed, there are many such acts . Black politicians are very racist In Parliament they shout " lndians must go back to lndia" Indians have overstayed their welcome in SA ,it is time they went back to lndia" We lndians were brought as slaves in 1860,suffered with blacks ,this is how we lndians are treated. More lndians have been killed by black criminals then during apartheid. This is the truth ,SA is a black racist government
getting rid of apartheid since 1860.. wake up it only went in to law in s a in 1948. durban was not even built or the sugar cane industries slavery for the empire ended in 1807 . but i know you speak the rest true as. best immigrate out of s a we did. life is good out of s a then dump the dam anc pass book its useless for travel. we did. good luck.
The internal squabbles and greed within the ANC has resulted in 30 wasted years to address inequality. It took the apartheid government 20 years to enrich and share land among Afrikaans people. Many mines closed down after 1994 but the ANC government couldn’t give those mines to communities or black people to address the wealth gap.
20 years? Lol. To "enrich and share"? Lol. I guess thieving goes by a different name these days. Agriculture/mining declined globally since demand crashed.
I'm a Cameroonian and studied at CityVarsity on Roeland Street, not too far from where this debate took place. I later studied at Wits and my time in SA was one of the most rewarding times in my life for which I will forever remain grateful. My time in Cape Town in 2018 made me realize the deeply entrenched idea of race in SA but especially among coloreds. I find it wild how Ashley Sauls cannot answer a simple question without having to make the case that the Khoi are indigenous to the land. Of course that makes them African as he rightly said and I'm not sure why the Apartheid machinery split hairs like this but Black people lived in SA before the white man came with his racism. Shaka fought them off too. You cannot solve economic issues by simply declaring people as the owners of the Western Cape(whatever that means). If South Africa is to work, clinging to racial classifications must not be the way to do it. All South Africans need to work together and the ANC with its majority needs to take rougher laws especially around land reform and prove that they are willing to STOP crime and CREATE JOBS. They can't keep walking on eggshells for fear of offending white people. Take drastic measures that make SA WORK FOR EVERYONE
Brilliant, especially your point on Ashley Saul's sole emphasis on the Khoisans. Too exclusive for our rainbow nation. Are you still in SA or did you go back to Cameroon?
@@ngalahansel6066 alright, i'm a south african. Since you studied in SA, i was thinking that you were still here but i'm also not surprised that you left. Things are bad here and this debate captured that fact, with precision.
How could land expropriation with or without compensation solve anything? Land has to be farmed by competent farmers with access to capital. Just turning millions of people who know nothing about farming onto the land will lead to mass starvation. Zimbabwe is the clear example.
Those who work the land are ought to keep it, we also have to acknowledge that there’s a lot of vacant land owned by people living overseas, not all land is farmland!!!
@everythingelsesport2000 land is just an expense if you do not know how to use it productively. surely you're aware of what happened in Zimbabwe. They're asking the old white farmers to come back, and they're willing to pay compensation.
@@SibusisoMaseko1 SA is full of refugees from Zimbabwe because the economy is bankrupt. Land expropriation would bankrupt SA overnight. If you think it's bad now it would be ten times worse with expropriation. The better solution is for blacks to go to agricultural colleges and learn how to farm, then rent farming land, if they really want to farm. But I don't think they want to farm. They just want the land.
You can't counter the argument . You can empathise with them either. Shows hiw selfish you really are. This is ablut greed for you, not ablut fairness.
Eff is built on race, the party doesn't represent any other race. So when PA represents the colored people you have a problem. You are not the original habitats of the southern tip...this is not your land
I also noticed that. Sadly almost all of them were quite shallow in their responses and failed to give concrete answers. Only Naledi Chirwa came close to giving sensible answers
If after 30 years of race based affirmative action which favours black people in jobs, (DEI/BEE) contracts, business opportunities and 30 years of ANC schooling, free houses to black people only, it now rests solely on being given free land to achieve economic parity? Which has been widely done across the country anyway. What did you not learn from the Zimbabwe model.
I think it's fair to say that African politicians struggle to maintain a government. It's best to look for other races that are found in South Africa to potentially drive this country and maintain our government. This country has so much potential that is being exploited by the same people who were fighting for democracy.
Maybe because these governments are your peoples creation. If you left the Africans alone with their own cultures without trying to influence them with your media, maybe they would be 1000 times better
Calvin, lets not forget that because of colonialism and apartheid a numerical minority has become a cultural majority, whose world view, ways of seeing and ways of being have become dominant. Ways through which we refract political, social, economical, cultural and other realities of SA.
How about you say, you have corrupted African leaders and make them your puppet to the point that your, you coming to talk nonsense about African leaders as if they've than that by themselves by your very own to continue your devide and conquer.
You're thinking lacks research and common sense ... Funny how you're blatantly absolving your own contributions. Privileged opinions like yours should remain in the Toilet 😂
With the ANC in power and it's corrupt leadership NOOO ! Even the GNU is not going to solve the problem, instead; the problem is worsening because the president of the so-called GNU is the same president of the ANC who is there to make sure the ANC 's ideologies are executed.See what is happening as of now, always quarrels that has got nothing to do with the economy and equality of the people of South Africa.
Tribes fought tribes, countries fought countries if you lost the war you lost your land. Land is not going to solve the problem we have in this country. Jobs, investment and education is what is going to change equality. If you have a job, contributing to the economy and making an income you then can save to buy your land wherever you want in RSA. Whites, blacks, coloured, Indians, bushman or whatever race you are you are South African we need to work together leave the past look to the future. We need work, I'm white I can't find work I can't survive I can't contribute to the economy or to RSA, my abilities are ignored because of my colour. We must get rid of this colour of your skin entitles or means you are this or that way inclined. We must be united as one. Make our own language with a mix of our 11 language we need to get rid of this race issue
The part where he was like "we need to have tough conversations around Identity"....made me realize that he was referring how the land was taken in the first place, through divide and conquer.
The National Party (NP), which governed South Africa during apartheid, officially dissolved in 2005. Before that, its political alignment shifted over time: 1. Joining the ANC: In 2004, the New National Party (NNP), a rebranded version of the NP, officially merged with the African National Congress (ANC). This marked a significant shift for a party that once opposed the ANC ideologically and politically during apartheid. 2. Relationship with the DA: Before merging with the ANC, the NNP had initially joined forces with the Democratic Alliance (DA) in 2000. However, ideological differences and conflicts led the NNP to leave the DA in 2001. Thus, while the NNP had a brief alliance with the DA, its ultimate fate was to merge with the ANC in 2004, and the party formally dissolved the following year.
@ She is fine where she is. She (and they) know what their principles are. YOU are at where your principles are aligned with. EFF is a Pan Afrikan party and that is the hardest philosophy to align to in this day. I applaud them because I know the burden of the goals they carry, they are close to impossible due to current populism and a White hegemony.
Unfortunately this felt rushed and none of the panelists, except for Naledi perhaps came close enough to giving sensible answers. Most answers were shallow and failed to really give SOLUTIONS and Ashley Sauls had NO SOLUTION whatsoever to anything as all he kept saying was his identity 😂. Sadly with South Africans thinking like this and the fact that no white South African was on the panel (and white South Africans own most of the wealth) is a sign of how solving inequality in SA is still a long way off.
😢... the forgotten generation are the senior citizens: They were the youth of the 70s ,80s, and 90s suffered within the country under apartheid, sanctions, discrimination, and were in the Frontline demanded Mr. Deklerk to free the struggle leaders,but they are senior citizens who have not yet benefited, 😢 💔 💙 😕 have no voice or representation of their plight, especially financially 😢, these are the majority of the poor of the poor 😢 that liberated the country for all to enjoy but they are forgotten 😢 and unrecognized, yet the old men and women in government have been hording state funds and fattening their stalls.Were is the human rights of the poor of the poor senior citizens of za 🇿🇦 😢????
When i visited Robin Island in 2015 , it was isolated. It could be a beautiful island if restored back but without the prisons, but the prisons as a monument. They're churches, schools and other. Its livable.
South Africa has the highest economic inequality in the world, what nonsense are you talking about😂 We are number 1 in the world. Don't be dumb please.
Too many challenges they've got. Maybe they should figure out how to solve the energy crisis, which disrupts economic activity, with spillover effects.
People don't really want land , most young people in South Africa want the soft life, Most of South Africa's land is owned by the government - they must give the land owned by the government to people looking for land. The issue of land is really about the mineral rights - government need to have the political will to transfer mineral rights to communities and to really empower communities to prosper.
Nothing has changed with these debates No one will ever take responsibility and accountability for all the reckless decisions in this country We got BEE But that’s just been used to enrich their friends
There are millions of South Africans of all colours who just get on and live their lives , making a difference in their community without continuing talking about the past. They are the South Africans that are living in the present and are happy. Stop living in the past and start making a difference in your community and you will be happy. The past is the past and every country around the world has a history, move on life is short.
Its nice to see these discussions with such a diverse pannel. SA has come very far in a very short time. Well done guys. The countrys politics is still terrble but its nice to see people talking a bit more. Maybe the new generation can get it right
As a white male doctor, I am doing much better than in 1990. In 1990 , as a conscripted medical doctor, the army was paying me one American dollar a day. ... that is 20 American dollars per month. Now, sometimes, I am doing much, much better... depending on whether I get contracts or not.
The BBC must have a show about the UK and how far it's gone backwards in 30 years. Morally, spiritually, ethically and financially. That would be very interesting. The world has many problems.
Im watching from cape town township where i stay all my life we still have a lot of informal settlement without proper sanitation here in cape town who has no flushing toilets thats human rights violation.
Black people don't want land they want handouts. We have rural land that's available to all black South Africans from different regions, but instead of people utilizing this land for industrial use they move to the cities to go work for another white person. There's a huge agricultural sector in South Africa but we don't even develop skills to farm and learn how to trade. Suka! Our government needs to develop the existing land and maintain the infrastructure that's already there and not be concerned about expropriating land from white people, who have built their own town(Orania) without state funds.
That PA guy is talking nonsense, he wants special treatment. We are all Africans the over emphasis of Coloured is people wanting special treatment, more if tribalism. We won't allow that
Land redistribution seems a policy of limited benefit. Not everyone wants to be a farmer. Not everybody can farm. Why is Vietnam doing so well? It’s from a secure investment environment. Enterprise seems a better path to growth and employment.
Khoi/San people are mostly Tswanas, the Bushmen from Botswana. Coloured are born here, and no one knows exactly what races they are other than the human race, hence Black people adopt them because Black means the previously oppressed even though the skin colour of the Coloured gained them favour above darker skinned human beings in this land. Anyways, these a-historical debates lead to no change at all.
Thanks for sharing such valuable information! Just a quick off-topic question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
This deeply unequal situation did start in the early 1800's started by the then colonizers and being perpetuated until the late 1900's, when democracy came into being but has been destroyed by the push towards central total control by a very communistic world view by the new leaders. This view until now has been proven to be disastrous world wide, and the racial policies is used to create a bogyman like previous regimes ( the nazis denigrating the jews Hutus Tutsis etc.). The politicians and the so-called elite movers and shakers up to now has proven themselves to be totally out of touch with reality, human nature , aspirations and values pertaining to what is important for a well educated working class able to think for themselves, take responsibility for their lives and that of their offspring. The emphasis placed on government's rule instead of service to the community, where the community should be able to democratically run their own situation bound by the constitution and not political party agendas, dictates and ideology.
It’s gone backwards, every social metric proves that incorporating blacks was a dismal failure! There is not a single thing that has improved and all these 30 years has shown is that multi culturalism can never work, democracy is an absolute failure and blacks will collapse everything that they are apart of! Blacks cannot lead, they honestly believe that whites stole them dry when in actuality it was whites they found here in Europes colonial migration plans. These things cannot be resolved, they not excluded they have overstayed their visit
Anyone can own land. That will not make you wealthy. It's how you utilize that land that counts. Historically when land is "given" to someone who does not have the fortitude to develop the land that person will sell it and live off the money until it's gone. Rhodesia/Zimbabwe is a perfect example of what happens when there is a clear lack of intelligent & hardworking entrepreneurship. Notes: The land that is 'given' will not be respected as much as when the land is saved up for with sweat and tears.
Train people first then give them land to be used profitable for the people of the country.the word land sound good to your mouth but it work hand and gloves with responsibilities.let us come together to have a wayforward to the issue of the land.
The real big problem is all the talk about Race. There should be equality for all no matter what ethnicity or religion as long as they are citizens. They should talk about reforms and how to create a better situation in the country. Instead they are talking about injustice in the past. It is a pity.
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ANC shouldn't be lying to people and stop bringing up apartheid every time they are asked about their failures.The ANC has failed the country especially black people. period.
Even black people say white people should govern RSA.
get this person a bells
They failed everybody
They are so annoying with apartheid that doesn't exist anymore since 1994.
Start going forward instead of going backward.
The ANC has failed minority groups far more than anybody else.
Black people have far more privileges than any other race in the country.
Stop thinking ANC has failed Black people when you have gotten more for free and gave more undue advantages than anybody else in the country
Racist !
Only corruption has increased 1000%.
not so fun fact: in the 1990s south africa was ranked on the Corruption Perception Index in the 21st spot next to economies like Japan, Belgium, Austria.
today it is ranked 83rd.
And that is still a rather conservative estimate
Yes, we all want a better life but first and foremost " Corruption " must be stopped
Digital social transactions have greatly reduced corruption in India. Now, social benefits for the poor come directly to their bank without paying any corrupt government men. I don't know how it is in South Africa. In Kerala (India) communist government distributed land from landlords to poor. The society has more equality now. In many North Indian states, landlords possess the majority of the land, and they are part of Indian politics. Thus, so much inequality there!!
You would think that if you know nothing about the history of governance during apartheid
South Africa is a beautiful country with a great potential but it has been ruined by the ANC.
Who should rule it
Nope
Yeah,it was wonderful and glorious before "cANCer" right😅😅😅
@karabokhwiane7593 Yes ANC has ruined South Africa I'm black I used to support ANC until the Zuma Era.. if you know the kind of potential South Africa had and still has you wouldn't disagree that they ruined the country. If you know what happened to Eskom, what happened to SAA, to transnet and to all other state owned entities. If you know what happened at the borders to this point where we find ourselves with millions of foreigners in an economy that cannot even support the local. Do you know that our ports are so dysfunctional to the point that majority of cargos that are supposed to be shipped directly to SA are being shipped to Mozambique because in SA ports it takes forever to offload them. What led the food prices to go up? Did you go to university? Did you witness the outright corruption that is happening at that entity.
I can go on forever man ANC has ran this country down after the Thabo Mbeki tenure.
And illegal immigrants
Since when did land expopriation lead to better jobs.....only ending corruption and good governance will lead to better jobs
No discussion on illegal immigration (million) which has had a huge economic impact not to mention crime, increase of informal settlements.
Our country is kaput. I’m tired of living in constant fear. Just yesterday I was able to survive an attempted home invasion.
Deal with inequality = deal with crime. Even europeans are deal with the equality issue for stability
This is such a one sided conversation. Thirty years later, we gained democracy but we have gone backwards economically. That's what it is all about. How can land reform make the economy better? Are you going to give the unemployed small parcels of land to farm? What about education, crime and corruption? Start at top and vote for people who can actually create an overall plan to kick start the economy, enforce the rule of law and let integrity rule the day no matter the colour of your skin. What every South African deserves is a job, a home, free health care and education.
I agree my sister the better solution I have is if the DA can have 30-35% of the votes next election then other black parties combined have 65-70%. It would be a well balanced government no one would want to embezzle the money and get away with it also the DA would not have absolute power to create laws that only seem good to the privileged ones. I do not doubt that the DA can make SA great again but I don't trust them enough to have majority votes.
EFF is short sighted. You take the land, you destroy the economy. We will follow in Zimbabwes footsteps with this studpidity
The issue is not land trust me most black folks don’t care about the land so let’s not use scare tactics here. How can 8,5% of the SA population own 90% of means of production and economy that has been held for 500 years by whites then you come with that Zimbabwe when blacks are poor.
Right!! Naledi has so much potential but she has been so indoctrinated and stuck on one point. It's like that's the only policy she can quote
The whites have both land and economy ,EFF wants to take both, not just the land. There's nothing special about white people, what they can do we can also do.
So the land must continue to be owned by those who stole it?
@justhumble1 go to the land court if you have land that needs to be claimed. Government controls most of the land in SA already
The ANC will never improve the lives of people as poor people are easier to control.
Courtesy of Cyril Phala Phala Ramaphosa
It's so weird that coloured people are trying to push exclusive ownership of the khoi/san identity, when in reality, the khoi/san people were mostly absorbed by Xhosa and Tswana tribes.
If you visit the northern cape particularly the remote parts of it you would understand why. The link is blatant. The problem is these aren’t the people you think of when you hear “coloured”
@ RandomSoutgAfricanMan, the fact is is that archeology proves that the Xhosa came/moved down from central Africa more than 500 yrs ago. Yet the Khoi traded with the early travelers even before the Dutch came past cape of good hope.
Many Zulu people can also lay claim to Khoisan ancestry as well
@morneheemro8775 you trust those studies 😂😂wow. Than u can beleive that ancient Egyptians were arabs
True this first nation claim is not logical from the coloured community. How does a community who had to have other races exist before them and have them as offspring claim to be the first nation.🤔 Descendants is more accurate.
They all say they want land but 90% of land claims the claimants took the money and didn’t want the land…
If the EFF can use the hate they have for fellow white South Africans to love their black communities, the country will change for better. Hating each other won't alleviate poverty in our communities.
We don't want to be loved.
Why don't you love yourselfs.
Why do you want to be loved by your oppressors
@@siohonelson9078why do you want to hate?
@@siohonelson9078This one of yours is stupid.
@@siohonelson9078people with your mindset is the reason why racism will forever be a lingering problem. South Africa is a multiracial country. If you aren't gonna love every race just leave. And I say that as a black South African
It’s gotten worst in every way
Every way and every day we sink further
Hayi idrama
the inequality, yes
Except I can vote in my own country, live where I want, work where I want, and basically have a thing called human rights under the rule of law.
Black Empowerment is apartheid. So apartheid has not left South Africa
Everyone is now equally poor, unhappy and unsafe. Thank you Mandela!
It's called Reverse Apartheid! Courtesy of the ANC CADRES
Not Mandel. Those who followed him.
A few corrections at the 3:30 minute mark. Black ownership on the JSE is closer to 70% than 30%. The biggest holder of equity is the government employees pension fund PIC. Second, every government policy leads towards favouring African people, through ruthless implementation of Apartheid policies. Third, the country is so transformed, it has to now be repaired. I can no longer watch this utter drivel.
Thats a lie a white man tells himself to make him justify his evilness of his system.
Under white apartheid, there was total job reservation act ,only white had all good jobs ,not whites only had labour and low paying jobs.
Indians played a major role in getting rid of apartheid since 1860.
But under this Mandela government,there is a job reservation act called BEE ,that exclude lndians and coloureds
Another racist act is entry to university and medical school, only a few lndians and coloured are allowed, there are many such acts .
Black politicians are very racist
In Parliament they shout
" lndians must go back to lndia"
Indians have overstayed their welcome in SA ,it is time they went back to lndia"
We lndians were brought as slaves in 1860,suffered with blacks ,this is how we lndians are treated.
More lndians have been killed by black criminals then during apartheid. This is the truth ,SA is a black racist government
"suffered with blacks" is crazy, lol.
@@karabokhwiane7593 saying "blacks" is crazy but saying "indians" is not? Apartheid has broken you comrade
getting rid of apartheid since 1860.. wake up it only went in to law in s a in 1948. durban was not even built or the sugar cane industries slavery for the empire ended in 1807 . but i know you speak the rest true as. best immigrate out of s a we did. life is good out of s a then dump the dam anc pass book its useless for travel. we did. good luck.
The internal squabbles and greed within the ANC has resulted in 30 wasted years to address inequality. It took the apartheid government 20 years to enrich and share land among Afrikaans people.
Many mines closed down after 1994 but the ANC government couldn’t give those mines to communities or black people to address the wealth gap.
Strategy re redistr of land is not limited to agrig land only.
20 years? Lol. To "enrich and share"? Lol. I guess thieving goes by a different name these days. Agriculture/mining declined globally since demand crashed.
The applause is disturbing
I'm a Cameroonian and studied at CityVarsity on Roeland Street, not too far from where this debate took place. I later studied at Wits and my time in SA was one of the most rewarding times in my life for which I will forever remain grateful. My time in Cape Town in 2018 made me realize the deeply entrenched idea of race in SA but especially among coloreds. I find it wild how Ashley Sauls cannot answer a simple question without having to make the case that the Khoi are indigenous to the land. Of course that makes them African as he rightly said and I'm not sure why the Apartheid machinery split hairs like this but Black people lived in SA before the white man came with his racism. Shaka fought them off too. You cannot solve economic issues by simply declaring people as the owners of the Western Cape(whatever that means). If South Africa is to work, clinging to racial classifications must not be the way to do it. All South Africans need to work together and the ANC with its majority needs to take rougher laws especially around land reform and prove that they are willing to STOP crime and CREATE JOBS. They can't keep walking on eggshells for fear of offending white people. Take drastic measures that make SA WORK FOR EVERYONE
Brilliant, especially your point on Ashley Saul's sole emphasis on the Khoisans. Too exclusive for our rainbow nation. Are you still in SA or did you go back to Cameroon?
@LuzukoLangeni hey man, I left to work in Chad and Madagascar. Currently home in Cameroon for the holidays. Merry Christmas to you
@@ngalahansel6066 alright, i'm a south african. Since you studied in SA, i was thinking that you were still here but i'm also not surprised that you left. Things are bad here and this debate captured that fact, with precision.
You are still misinformed.
How could land expropriation with or without compensation solve anything? Land has to be farmed by competent farmers with access to capital. Just turning millions of people who know nothing about farming onto the land will lead to mass starvation. Zimbabwe is the clear example.
Those who work the land are ought to keep it, we also have to acknowledge that there’s a lot of vacant land owned by people living overseas, not all land is farmland!!!
@@everythingelsesport2000land shall be expropriated...yall can evacuate to where exactly? 😂
@everythingelsesport2000 land is just an expense if you do not know how to use it productively. surely you're aware of what happened in Zimbabwe. They're asking the old white farmers to come back, and they're willing to pay compensation.
@@charlo90952 This is SA, not Zimbabwe. Land belongs to black South Africans weather it is farmed or not.
@@SibusisoMaseko1 SA is full of refugees from Zimbabwe because the economy is bankrupt. Land expropriation would bankrupt SA overnight. If you think it's bad now it would be ten times worse with expropriation. The better solution is for blacks to go to agricultural colleges and learn how to farm, then rent farming land, if they really want to farm. But I don't think they want to farm. They just want the land.
PA failed dismally to answer simple questions. He just made the whole thing about being coloured !! EFF delivered.
You can't counter the argument . You can empathise with them either. Shows hiw selfish you really are. This is ablut greed for you, not ablut fairness.
Eff is built on race, the party doesn't represent any other race. So when PA represents the colored people you have a problem. You are not the original habitats of the southern tip...this is not your land
I also noticed that. Sadly almost all of them were quite shallow in their responses and failed to give concrete answers. Only Naledi Chirwa came close to giving sensible answers
EFF delivered? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
If after 30 years of race based affirmative action which favours black people in jobs, (DEI/BEE) contracts, business opportunities and 30 years of ANC schooling, free houses to black people only, it now rests solely on being given free land to achieve economic parity? Which has been widely done across the country anyway. What did you not learn from the Zimbabwe model.
They had to bring the blackest coloured
😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
That's one confused colored
Am a South African but my country is so beautiful but ,,,,,,some people just take the country down and it's break my heart
Easy on the “but”
I think it's fair to say that African politicians struggle to maintain a government.
It's best to look for other races that are found in South Africa to potentially drive this country and maintain our government.
This country has so much potential that is being exploited by the same people who were fighting for democracy.
Maybe because these governments are your peoples creation. If you left the Africans alone with their own cultures without trying to influence them with your media, maybe they would be 1000 times better
Maybe if the Africans were left Alone they'd be a thousand times better
Calvin, lets not forget that because of colonialism and apartheid a numerical minority has become a cultural majority, whose world view, ways of seeing and ways of being have become dominant. Ways through which we refract political, social, economical, cultural and other realities of SA.
How about you say, you have corrupted African leaders and make them your puppet to the point that your, you coming to talk nonsense about African leaders as if they've than that by themselves by your very own to continue your devide and conquer.
You're thinking lacks research and common sense ... Funny how you're blatantly absolving your own contributions. Privileged opinions like yours should remain in the Toilet 😂
Say no to greed , anxiety amongst abundance, and institutional racism/apartheid.
With the ANC in power and it's corrupt leadership NOOO ! Even the GNU is not going to solve the problem, instead; the problem is worsening because the president of the so-called GNU is the same president of the ANC who is there to make sure the ANC 's ideologies are executed.See what is happening as of now, always quarrels that has got nothing to do with the economy and equality of the people of South Africa.
Zille will Trump Ramaphosa
That PA guy doesn't know who he is. If only he knew better.
PA are the most confused people in South Africa
Proud to have been part , thank you BBCWQ for coming to cape town , question by me in 15:50 minutes
Google "does the death penalty decrease crime". Your question answered in 1 min.
What happens in case where by an individual is sentenced wrongfully, and executed, what would be your excuse.
Good people who all want a better future for the country. I hope they can work together in peace despite disagreements.
Why doesn’t the EFF lady talk about Malema & VBS?
Not improved at all,worst than apartheid years 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
ANC in 30 years he do nothing...
Tribes fought tribes, countries fought countries if you lost the war you lost your land. Land is not going to solve the problem we have in this country. Jobs, investment and education is what is going to change equality. If you have a job, contributing to the economy and making an income you then can save to buy your land wherever you want in RSA. Whites, blacks, coloured, Indians, bushman or whatever race you are you are South African we need to work together leave the past look to the future. We need work, I'm white I can't find work I can't survive I can't contribute to the economy or to RSA, my abilities are ignored because of my colour. We must get rid of this colour of your skin entitles or means you are this or that way inclined. We must be united as one. Make our own language with a mix of our 11 language we need to get rid of this race issue
These guys just wasted our time, only EFF gave sober analysis
But you left out the main opposition party in parliament. Mkhonto wesizwe party.
Im not EFF but they was better in this panel. Also, what's up with the PA, are they that desperate for "coloured votes"?😂😂😂😂
It's their only voter base
The part where he was like "we need to have tough conversations around Identity"....made me realize that he was referring how the land was taken in the first place, through divide and conquer.
EFF was very impressive. I will not state which representative was representing so much self interest it was appalling for a national party.
That girl in the EFF wasting her talents in that party.... Only a matter of time she leaves, seen that ship is already sinking
The National Party (NP), which governed South Africa during apartheid, officially dissolved in 2005. Before that, its political alignment shifted over time:
1. Joining the ANC:
In 2004, the New National Party (NNP), a rebranded version of the NP, officially merged with the African National Congress (ANC). This marked a significant shift for a party that once opposed the ANC ideologically and politically during apartheid.
2. Relationship with the DA:
Before merging with the ANC, the NNP had initially joined forces with the Democratic Alliance (DA) in 2000. However, ideological differences and conflicts led the NNP to leave the DA in 2001.
Thus, while the NNP had a brief alliance with the DA, its ultimate fate was to merge with the ANC in 2004, and the party formally dissolved the following year.
Taivemo ,anogona Naledi uyo
@ She is fine where she is. She (and they) know what their principles are. YOU are at where your principles are aligned with. EFF is a Pan Afrikan party and that is the hardest philosophy to align to in this day. I applaud them because I know the burden of the goals they carry, they are close to impossible due to current populism and a White hegemony.
@@iforget6940Therefore the NP still had their say over south afrucans.
Shows how disingenuous ANC were back then
3500 STATE OWNED farms are not being utilized
Unfortunately this felt rushed and none of the panelists, except for Naledi perhaps came close enough to giving sensible answers. Most answers were shallow and failed to really give SOLUTIONS and Ashley Sauls had NO SOLUTION whatsoever to anything as all he kept saying was his identity 😂. Sadly with South Africans thinking like this and the fact that no white South African was on the panel (and white South Africans own most of the wealth) is a sign of how solving inequality in SA is still a long way off.
What about Coloured people??
Always such question?
Beautiful, most friendly people in SA...
Coloured ppl are black people they just wanna feel special
@@MrsLekker😂😂😂
@@MrsLekker Cape flats
😢... the forgotten generation are the senior citizens:
They were the youth of the 70s ,80s, and 90s suffered within the country under apartheid, sanctions, discrimination, and were in the Frontline demanded Mr. Deklerk to free the struggle leaders,but they are senior citizens who have not yet benefited, 😢 💔 💙 😕 have no voice or representation of their plight, especially financially 😢, these are the majority of the poor of the poor 😢 that liberated the country for all to enjoy but they are forgotten 😢 and unrecognized, yet the old men and women in government have been hording state funds and fattening their stalls.Were is the human rights of the poor of the poor senior citizens of za 🇿🇦 😢????
What a load of bulshit
A good discussion. It is easy for South Africans today to take for granted the freedom that they have to engage on such questions.
Why there was no MKP representative in that panel!?
The BBC should check our History with the British during Colonization and Union S.A. before remarking.
Absolutely. Us boertjies always stayed quiet. Now we're paying a price as white Africans because we have manners.
And how the Brits killed the Boers and raped and killed there wives and children fighting to save SAF ....
They don't answer the questions
When i visited Robin Island in 2015 , it was isolated. It could be a beautiful island if restored back but without the prisons, but the prisons as a monument.
They're churches, schools and other. Its livable.
Extremely unbalanced debate due to the choice of speakers.
Of course equality has improved - everyone now has equal status under the law
Lol
South Africa has the highest economic inequality in the world, what nonsense are you talking about😂 We are number 1 in the world. Don't be dumb please.
This is very shallow and boring.
Too many challenges they've got. Maybe they should figure out how to solve the energy crisis, which disrupts economic activity, with spillover effects.
People don't really want land , most young people in South Africa want the soft life, Most of South Africa's land is owned by the government - they must give the land owned by the government to people looking for land. The issue of land is really about the mineral rights - government need to have the political will to transfer mineral rights to communities and to really empower communities to prosper.
Reverse Aparthied 30 years into it ... time severed I think.. if payback was the objective
Nothing has changed with these debates
No one will ever take responsibility and accountability for all the reckless decisions in this country
We got BEE
But that’s just been used to enrich their friends
There are millions of South Africans of all colours who just get on and live their lives , making a difference in their community without continuing talking about the past. They are the South Africans that are living in the present and are happy. Stop living in the past and start making a difference in your community and you will be happy. The past is the past and every country around the world has a history, move on life is short.
I am 2:27 in watching, with this panel, I just don't think it's worth it for me wasting my time watching...
Im in tourism and the eff has no idea what they are talking about as always
Coloured doesn’t mean mixed race !!!
EFF is direct and on that it deals with the heart than having to check the leg whilst the real problem is in the heart.
Its nice to see these discussions with such a diverse pannel. SA has come very far in a very short time. Well done guys. The countrys politics is still terrble but its nice to see people talking a bit more. Maybe the new generation can get it right
Your suffering from The kamala Harris effect if you think anything positive about racist monstrosity that is 70% of SA political parties
As a white male doctor, I am doing much better than in 1990. In 1990 , as a conscripted medical doctor, the army was paying me one American dollar a day. ... that is 20 American dollars per month. Now, sometimes, I am doing much, much better... depending on whether I get contracts or not.
Yes but what about the accommodation and food you got over and above
South Africa belongs to coloured race Argue all you want
Keep on dreaming, a language u don’t even speak
The BBC must have a show about the UK and how far it's gone backwards in 30 years. Morally, spiritually, ethically and financially. That would be very interesting. The world has many problems.
A hell of a moderator!
Im watching from cape town township where i stay all my life we still have a lot of informal settlement without proper sanitation here in cape town who has no flushing toilets thats human rights violation.
I wish they had academics as panellists instead of politicians
Koisan people did not arrive here, black people did not arrive here. Terribly disappointed in the PA for further pushing bulkanisation of Africa
I want to join the ANC in Cape Town. What is the name of the ANC representative?
Black people don't want land they want handouts. We have rural land that's available to all black South Africans from different regions, but instead of people utilizing this land for industrial use they move to the cities to go work for another white person. There's a huge agricultural sector in South Africa but we don't even develop skills to farm and learn how to trade. Suka! Our government needs to develop the existing land and maintain the infrastructure that's already there and not be concerned about expropriating land from white people, who have built their own town(Orania) without state funds.
That PA guy is talking nonsense, he wants special treatment. We are all Africans the over emphasis of Coloured is people wanting special treatment, more if tribalism. We won't allow that
So you must get first preference but other's can't 😂😂😂😂Okay that's nice😂😂😂
South Africa is like that genius learner who doesn't take school serious.
Interesting
Only Naledi was worth listening to, she was on point
And where will you put all these criminals...in the jails thats full?
Stop the corruption and half the battle will be won! Education and health care without which there is no way we will be able to walk forward.
In Kerala, India communist government distributed land from landlords to poor. The society has more equality now.
Thank you Chairman Mao.
How did that end up in China?
Land redistribution seems a policy of limited benefit. Not everyone wants to be a farmer. Not everybody can farm. Why is Vietnam doing so well? It’s from a secure investment environment. Enterprise seems a better path to growth and employment.
No... Next question
Boost small businesses
Khoi/San people are mostly Tswanas, the Bushmen from Botswana. Coloured are born here, and no one knows exactly what races they are other than the human race, hence Black people adopt them because Black means the previously oppressed even though the skin colour of the Coloured gained them favour above darker skinned human beings in this land. Anyways, these a-historical debates lead to no change at all.
Thanks for sharing such valuable information! Just a quick off-topic question: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
Same system. Different face. Same controller. Black face. Don’t be fooled
This deeply unequal situation did start in the early 1800's started by the then colonizers and being perpetuated until the late 1900's, when democracy came into being but has been destroyed by the push towards central total control by a very communistic world view by the new leaders. This view until now has been proven to be disastrous world wide, and the racial policies is used to create a bogyman like previous regimes ( the nazis denigrating the jews Hutus Tutsis etc.). The politicians and the so-called elite movers and shakers up to now has proven themselves to be totally out of touch with reality, human nature , aspirations and values pertaining to what is important for a well educated working class able to think for themselves, take responsibility for their lives and that of their offspring. The emphasis placed on government's rule instead of service to the community, where the community should be able to democratically run their own situation bound by the constitution and not political party agendas, dictates and ideology.
This is World Service Broadcast, who is producing this show. Guys you failed to get The official Opposition party (uMkhonto Wesizwe Party-MKP).
They're not the official opposition, the DA is....
Definitely worse off than we ever have been. I was "born free" but I don't feel very free.
KZN police is protecting it's citizens, they can't wait for future legislation.
Nope, we are on the breadline. Bleak, very bleak down here in the colony. There is no peace.
I think if you're trying to compare a then and now it would seem South Africa is certainly a lot more pretentious.
It’s gone backwards, every social metric proves that incorporating blacks was a dismal failure! There is not a single thing that has improved and all these 30 years has shown is that multi culturalism can never work, democracy is an absolute failure and blacks will collapse everything that they are apart of! Blacks cannot lead, they honestly believe that whites stole them dry when in actuality it was whites they found here in Europes colonial migration plans. These things cannot be resolved, they not excluded they have overstayed their visit
Anyone can own land. That will not make you wealthy. It's how you utilize that land that counts. Historically when land is "given" to someone who does not have the fortitude to develop the land that person will sell it and live off the money until it's gone. Rhodesia/Zimbabwe is a perfect example of what happens when there is a clear lack of intelligent & hardworking entrepreneurship. Notes: The land that is 'given' will not be respected as much as when the land is saved up for with sweat and tears.
Population has increased and the anc has kept them in corrugated iron
How does BBC hold a discussion of South African political parties without including the official Opposition of the country which is the MK party.
As long the man he's still the president, is youth responsibility to ensure that we'll never vote for ANC
Panel needs Sizwe Mpofu Walsh🙏🏾
Train people first then give them land to be used profitable for the people of the country.the word land sound good to your mouth but it work hand and gloves with responsibilities.let us come together to have a wayforward to the issue of the land.
The real big problem is all the talk about Race. There should be equality for all no matter what ethnicity or religion as long as they are citizens. They should talk about reforms and how to create a better situation in the country. Instead they are talking about injustice in the past. It is a pity.
Ms Chirwa is on point.
She's not South African though
@@alxk310 so what?
Wow editing team😂! The cuts are crazy as people make their points
Naledi Chirwa speaks eloquently about land and create job how, I'm talking about practical job