This is true. But the thing about "forgiveness" is that its for you more than it is for the other person. it sets the forgiver free from the burden of hate...the forgiven person has different path to walk....they need more then to be forgiven in order to deal with their demons.
I'm watching this for the first time in 2024, and there couldn't be a better time for this to pop up on my recommendations. Fast forward to 10 years later, and our country is deteriorating. I really do pray that my generation is able to make a change for the better. There is never a day that goes by where I do not stop praying for South Africa I'm really hoping that this coming election will bring about improvement and peace among it's people 🙏🏾 God bless this country ❤
Mime was what about the terrorizing, torture, and murder targeting of white farmers to the response "blacks are more likely to suffer violence and incarceration. Wth is that!?? One is very INTENTIONAL hence "targeting" and is very obvious hatred and purely SYSTEMATIC RACISM (truthfully) the other is a result of the culture and crime within their own ranks. The two couldn't be further apart! And on the side of TRUE systemic racism, the very PRESIDENT sings about killing the bores/WHITES!
Reminds me (a white American) of those white Americans who say stuff like, "Where's our 'thank you' for abolishing slavery?" or, "We outlawed Jim Crow".
Watching this for the first time today in 2023. It’s a disappointing that as a young person, I had the idea that this kind of conversation wasn’t possible. But it happened, just a few years ago. They need to do this again.
This was NINE YEARS AGO nearly 10 not "a few". Trust me it is no better there by ANY means than in America! It is all an agenda to divide and these ideas are all put in their minds just like "systemic racism" in America. These are all built on lies or straight up lies period put out for the agenda of ultimate divide and conquer. Do you not notice the same words being used there as in America??? If not "racism/slavery" beingnused they use "systemic violence" which was caused by the TRIBES FIGHTING INE ANOTHER and the problem SIN...laziness, bitterness, covetousness! And the people use it to steel and take what doesn't belong to them in a lawful country. They begin with with small "debates" backed with known lies in order to grow bigger into pure hatred.
This is a African nation PERIOD! The discussion needs to start there. The "Rainbow Nation" is NOT anthropological. The Africans were in Africa long BEFORE the arrival of eurocoids to the planet. Notwithstanding, according to Dr. Johannes Krauss a biochemist from Germany... "100% of EHGs had black skin and blue eyes and seem to be the HERC2 gene deletion and the white phenotype is only about 4,000 years old..." In other words the first humans in Europe itself were from Africa proper and "they had black skin and blue eyes" long BEFORE the arrival of Europeans to the planet as we know them today. Finally, the African environment favored darker pigment specifically as a response to the African Sun's ultraviolet radiation. In the final analysis, it what your DNA says who you are not skin color. REVIEW: African Ancestry Testing Corporation Africanancestey.com REVIEW: CARTA "Human DNA and Evolution of Ancient European History" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany. ruclips.net/video/JTY9K1Q_Sbg/видео.html REVIEW: "The Genetic Differences between Europeans Explained" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany ruclips.net/video/B_p8pzGTXc4/видео.html
Black people are not native to South Africa the Zulus and Xhosa are BANTU TRIBES from west Africa who colonised and committed genocide against the khoisan and the white Dutch came to South Africa first.
The blacks have the power in South Africa. Since that, all minorities (whites,indians,coloureds, khoi, etc.) face discrimination against them, getting jobs for example. OF COURSE there is racism. The racism by the blacks against all others, especially whites.
The only thing that can fix black people around the globe that's facing Racism. Black people must first understand what is White Supremacy and how does it work. Until we learn and understand White Supremacy, everything we know about racism will confuse us. The White South Afrikaners stolen the black people land, properties and countries resources, instead of giving back what they stolen. They have to create three Societies to fight against black South Africans. It's sad for me to see black people in South Africa, called themselves Coloured People, because of our Ancestors been raped by Colonizers and a Political Construct to have the Coloured people on their side against black South Africans. Coloured People, you have mixes of Colonizers blood, but you are still black people, with lighter shades of blackness. This a trick they used in the United States of America.
Yes because we trying to accommodate whites in our country did us wrong so racist n arrogance we still caring pain they don't they think we stupid we see everything..
Im Kenyan and after watching this debate im so much in pain. South Africa has a lot of work to do to attain healing and reconcilliation. That boer shocked me.
They don't learn from their mistakes, they make it even harder and unintelligent for me. These politicians aren't fully trained. They're simply the things that have been used for nothing::
You're falling for the good cop bad cop shitt. That mlungu stated the obvious and didn't offer any solutions. Now ya'll think he's one of the "good ones"
It's because you are so focused on 'whites' that you aren't paying attention to yourselves. Whites just carry on, and make sure they educate our children come hell or high water, and make sure they are professionally okay. More of their energy goes into the right places. Poor families do not have access to the internet nor to good education. And since most poor families were black to start in 1994 the demographics remain the same. But there are plenty more middle class black people than there are white people. That's progress. It's just the percentages that are skewed. If 75% of whites are middle class then that's only 3.5 million people. You can't fix the poverty or the demographic disparity by 'solving' white people.
@@Sumarai21 Add to the conversation and I'll consider hearing you out. But if you throw unintelligible insults, then I'll just assume you are trolling - and not care 👋
This video showed me that the black men in the room were more concerned with white acceptance and interracial relationships rather than black equality. I appreciated the white people honestly admitting that they want to keep their race pure and that obviously bothered the black men in the room.
European people and African people live together because they have to accept each other. Black people know why white people are in South Africa, and it's not because they care about the country or the people, it's something else.
As a Afro 🇬🇾🇱🇨Caribbean American I love everything about this debate. Glad to see my brother and sister in Africa are speaking up for their rights. ✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾❤
@Malika Byron, my sister, that's how I identify as well. Afro Caribbean American. My husband, who's from Nigeria 🇳🇬 thinks am creating problems on the census every time. I thought I was the only one ooo.
We cannot "forget" our histories of oppression and say to "move on" until all of our children have the same starting point in society regardless of their skin colour
That’s crazy. Why would it take only a couple of generations to catch up to a civilization that is advanced by a couple thousand years? Forget history? I think we need to Truly know our history, the entire stretching story of it - instead of looking at specific sections, out of context, for political expediency
I'm not from Africa, but what I sense is black people are tiring of the "get over it" attitude of whites. There seems to be some healing that needs to be done. But that is difficult to do when the person/persons who are a product of the wound, tell you to get over it.
Yeah because they know that if the shoe was on the other foot and they themselves were on the receiving end of over 3 to 4 hundred years of oppression within their own countries they would be singing the same song, case closed
Healing in this sense means a place without whites. How do I know this? Well we have all the evidence we need right here in American colleges. Places of healing (where whites are not allowed). Blacks are the most racist people on the earth at this moment. Not just against whites either.
Simple... keep your culture, just know the land belongs to the nations. Being different isn't the problem, poverty and exclusion from economic equality is.
Listen you black South African I just want to get something off my chest. I am Zimbabwean and you black South Africans always sugar coat your racist bull shit mentality. Lets talk about xenophobia and how you people brutally murder Black Zimbabweans? I want a answer for that ASAP!
@Chi Oke If you say that I have inherited colonization from my ancestors you have a low IQ, Well anyway then you have inherited slavery from your ancestors if I'm a colonizer because of my ancestors were then you are a slave because your ancestors. Now that's the logic we talking about here you ignorant idiot, so it boils down to this, I'm a colonizer and you are a SLAVE.
Starting at 20:16, the professor has given the answer as to why racism exists. Racism has always been about POWER! Groups that oppress other people will CONTINUE to oppress other culture because they are wanting to keep the control they have! If people were not so greedy and power hungry, racism would have been abolished a long time ago.
This is what I have been telling people, the problem of racism stems from the systems that we have in place all over the world. Racists are Racists because of the power and privilege they aquire through these disproportionate systems that we all utilize today. If people of color, especially people of African descent were to focus on creating new systems and getting rid of the old ones, there would be an instantaneous shift in the social and economic power dynamic on the globe. The system is the disease, racism is a symptom.
I wish we have such debates in my country Sierra Leone to talk about the real reasons towards the backwardness of our country. One love to South Africa and Africa as a whole
I think the elephant in the room needs to be discussed. The problem is that Europeans since the 1400s have been the main issue. They have controlled the Americas, islands, and Africa. So, when Africans on the continent and in the diaspora express their disgust and displeasure with the white supremacy system, it always poses a problem for them. They feel we should not voice our opinion regarding the circumstances we are placed in by their force and systematic machinations. All of it was done on the basis of controlling capitalism and power
" CAPITALISM " DE - CAP THE HEAD OF THE OTHER MISOLOGY THEORY OF HATE and FORCE IMPOSING MISERY to Mis - REPRESENTA - TION TAUNTING - MOCKERY for BEING MA ' JORITY THE MOTHER LAND PRIMARY FIRST LEAD ADVERSARY PTOLEMY with LEGIONS " GOD TOLD ME GO INTO THE LAND . . . " ( INVADERS , A.D. ) SUMMARY by NEGRA Maggie PLEA ADVOCATE since 1960s " HINDSIGHT 20 20 " TAJ HEART CROWN WISDOM THE ONLY DOM N.I.S.A.I. by N.I.N.E. ; . . .3Sq PEACEMA ' NY !
You think africans are the only people who where oppressed?Do some research.How many afrikaner people do you see today that still blame the british for killing their families and took everything they had.Through history bad things happen but people get themselves out of it there are multiple examples of this.I do feel sorry for those who are affected but many people just blame others without even trying to put in the effort ,no one else is going to do it for you.Focus on solutions and not problems.@Terre Griffin
@@chesterdonnelly1212 Keep your foot on their throat? Well, when the tide changes to their favor over you, they might have more complex ideas of how to repay you with more brute than you could muster. Treat others exactly as you want to be treated.
@@chesterdonnelly1212 I am British too. Who you are doesn't make what I'v said untrue. What was done then is still happening now in many other ways, even in Britain. Whether you are a perpetrator or not is your choice to make.
Both black women are so incredible, the poet and the activist they are saying things with so much power and accuracy that you are being forced to listen to them with great attention. They have seduced handily the audience by their strenght of mind and broaden Knowledge updated over the time. I am so under the spell that I am being bound to write to pay tribute for their work over Blackness.
Stop with blackness, its all about being humanness. Blks want to be felt heard but that is not the point....All women need to be heard , as there is no women better than the other. BLM movement?? What happen to the monies raised by the movement?? Gone? Just like we have a blk government that continually rapes the people of basic service's. So lets move foward and speak about humans not blk and white.
why does every YT person need to apologize? most YT people have no power any anyone black nor do they actively do anything to harm them..its only the ones in power and with wealth...
I'm not from South Africa but I truly enjoy this type of debate where people from different races who share the same country are given opportunity to express themselves on issues facing their country. This is the best moment !
Only thing that is going to work is for all people to come to a great meeting place in the world of the fact that we are not separated by race for the fact that we are ONE RACE created but we have different in pigment by the area that we have inhabited on the world. Our environment has been the only thing that has made us different in appearance. It has to change or we will not survive with hate and bigotry for each other!!!
@@Mowizzy1 Please don't try fight racism with racist slurs. She is actually right-leaning or very conservative. Which is tied to the Big Five personality model. It's not because of the colour of her skin. There are plenty of left and right leaning people of all races.
@@broadcastmadnesss I'm happy with that. As long as you don't say she is privileged and /or ignorant because of her skin tone. She might be privileged due to her class, or due to other factors. But not because she is white. That's the core of my message.
@@oompaloompa3188 as everyone knows our people thats such a crazy generalization. I personally give away 100,000 a year to the less fortunate. i work 100 hours weeks. But I get your point, I'm just saying that the original south africans have been discriminated against and obviously slaughtered in the past (of course all past history has been full of slaughtering etc.) I'm not justifying the crimes of the colonists (started by the elite back then]
As a Nigerian i thought we have problem until i saw this, and this might be the same in every africa countries which shows the problem is not about tribe or colour but poverty ,why a nation is doing badly(bad leaders) people try to identify with their tribe and colour.
The main problem isn't bad leaders or poverty, the main problem that we face as a continent that cause all these socio-economic issues is the systems that we have in place, that enable such socio-economic to thrive. The systems that we utilize weren't structured to serve the African people, they were structured to serve foreign interests, that's why there's more capital going out of the continent, than in.
@Fezile Nkabinde Do you know how much western nations take from Africa annually? Trillions of dollars Corruption only contributes to $60 billion of the total amount of money smuggled out of the continent. The systems that you are utilizing are not helping you, the African people, to economically grow your continent. Do you know how much America takes out of our country annually? $400 billion, not rands, dollars, and they have been doing this for decades, long before the ANC. We have a $410 billion economy, even half of that amount of net worth is enough to develop the country, yet we don't see this development. You can't blame that on the ANC, no matter how long the ANC has been in power, they would not have been able to smuggle such an immeasurable amount of money out of the country, it's impossible. The systems that you work under weren't structured for you, dozens of economists have literally said this, Moeletsi Mbeki an economist himself, has said that our South African economy, and the broader African economy was structured to serve foreign interests, not African interests. Africa economy was not structured to be industrialist, it's wasn't structured to manufacture, it was structured to be a raw material exporter, that's why you see so much poverty and underdevelopment in the continent. The Continent is literally in a debt trap because of organizations like the WEF. Western nations can pay their debt in their own currency, even though they are trillions of dollars in debt, yet African countries can't do this, they have to pay their debts with their massively devalued currencies into dollars, you know how economically depriving that is? You are asking what is stopping the ANC from changing the system? The ANC doesn't have economic power 🙃 have you ever heard of the sunset clause? This is the same story throughout the continent, africans don't have economic control of their own economies. 85-90% of corporations in the continent are owned by westerners, Asians and Arabs. You could go to Namibia, Zambia, Angola, Zimbabwe etc, and see the exact same thing, you don't have control over your own economy, if you don't have economic power, you don't have any transformational power at all.
South Africa is a fractured mirror A paradox of schizophrenic selves Who do not talk to one another Who fear each other......I felt that Lebo, I felt that.
I am watching this in awe. I honestly am broken that this is reality. being from america and going through racism and to see in SOUTH AFRICA that they cant or are being told that they have no right to their ancestors land. And for the mixed race to say that the blacks dnt belong when they are part black. that is totally strange to me. And how the whites say that they have rights to the land that their ancestors took from the natives. I hope that one day this will be rectified and the people will heal emotionally and bring it all together. And as for me here i hope for the same because we are still going through the division. Once we as ppl of color understand that no matter how light or dark we are we are still the same in others eyes. Period
THE WHITE MAN SAID.... A BLACK SAID THEY NEED TO KILL WHITES.....AND WHITE MAN COMPLAINED THAT NO ONE REBUKED HIM ALL CALLED IT RACISM.....THIS IS TYPICAL.........I WAS ORDAINED ELDER IN ONE OF THE LARGEST BLACK DENOMINATIONS IN USA AND WE HAD A MEETING IN CHURCH AND BISHOP WAS SPEAKING AND HE SAID.."GO OUT AND KILL WHITEY.." AND NOT ONE BLACK PERSON STOOD UP AND CORRECTED HIM OR APOLOGIZED TO ME.....EXCEPT THE THE BISHOP SAID TO ME " EXCUSE ME REVEREND KING BUT THIS IS AMERICA..."...NOW IF ANY WHITE PREACHER IN MOST WHITE CHURCHES I HAVE BEEN IN EVER SAID GO OUT AND KILL BLACKIE THE WHOLE CHURCH WOULD RISE UP AGAINST THIS KIND OF HATE TALK.........I TOLD A BLACK PASTOR AND ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS THIS STORY AND THEY BOTH LAUGHED..AS SOME OF YOU BLACK BIGOTS MIGHT THINK IT WAS FUNNY.......BUT I KNOW LOVELY BLACKS THAT WOULD SAY THAT IS TERRIBLE...SO MAKE YOUR CHOICES IF YOU WANT TO BE A BLACK RACIST OR A WHITE RACIST...ME I WANT NONE OF THIS TRASH...BUT IT SEEMS LIKE BLACK RACISM IS ON THE RISE HERE IN USA AS IT IS IN SOUTH AFRICA.
I can remember a time when the church didn't have to say the words, they just used the bible to help pack millions of Black Africans on boats like sardines, ship to the west, die at sea, get tarred and feathered and the rest is history...the meek shall inherit the earth...slaves, servants...justified with the Holy Bible...Bigots have children, and grand, and great and great great grandchildren...in the Name of Jesus!
@Peter September but y'all are black too. This is why it's confusing. Like you are in Africa the land of the blacks and you called or see yourself different from all others. This is how the european beat us and conquer. They mobilize, come together and defeat. But us no matter what country u are from your are still and African born within your tribe. When ppl start to understand this only then can the continent be a power to recon with. Even in Europe they know they european within their respective groups. That's all. And if u dnt see ur self as such and have those who try to connect with u then what is it to do. From my experience i see a lot of coloreds be closer to the dutch travelers who settled there and is claiming it lands but u fight with ppl who are from there and migrated from surrounding countries. San ppl are my ppl as well. Born in America looking at how divided the clans are is very sad. I mean look at is here. Most are trying to come together to mend and repair the damage of many yrs of killing, divided and forced hate towards each other. It's not where we want to be but it's better than it was. And africans born in America are trying to become one unite knowing that we are different and part of many tribes but have one goal. Freedom, self sustaining and not allowing 5hose who wish us harm to control our stories, lives and culture anymore.
@faith umuk I was surprised someone like her would say that in all places Subsaharan Africa. I mean isn't there an Indian community in SA? Kind of to say "I'm not here as an Indian". Sounds slightly Rachel Dolezalish to me
Self hatred and self acceptance is one of the biggest problem in South Africa. Black people are divided among themselves... when a black man can see himself as coloured, and not black because he is mixed race. But much blacker than me who considers myself black. Then there lies the problem
Coloured people outnumber white people, but the debate is set up as black vs white. South Africa is not just black and white. Why must he choose a side? Coloured are not black or white. Coloured are coloured.
@@wandiledlamini4916 I’m not sure I want to fight for land. It’s sad how our grandparents were removed from their homes and dumped on the Cape flats. They suffered and our parents suffered. But I think we need to put that behind us and focus on improving our communities.
The Africans are 81% of the country. Coloureds and Asians ( from India) have some of the wealth. Whites have a large amount of the corporations. The Blacks have the Parliament since 1994!
I am 64 years old, read "Cry The Beloved Country" when I was 13, and lived through the end of "Jim Crow" segregation laws in the Southern United States, and the attempt to end "De Facto" segregation is large non Southern Cities. I'm also White. Until white people take a hard look at our centuries of racism that is deeply embedded in our culture and religion. Not much will chafe. And in all fairness, most people have difficulty with that sort of change after age 30, sometimes 20. South Africa has in immense amount of pain over race. Too many people on both sides of the equation hang on to that pain, and use it as a shield. And those who have power, are loathe tl give it up. I agree with Desmond Tutu, whites in South Africa are very lucky. But the larger issue that the whole country needs to deal with is moving from a mostly agricultural nation, that needs cheap labor, to an industrial and technological nation that is much more prosperous and can create jobs for more of it's people. It took Korea 40 years to move from a third world country to the powerhouse that it is today. You can do it too, but you have to stop the blame game (white folks) and accept that your black neighbors are God's children and deserving of a full measure of dignity, respect and INCOME. The United States is much closer to equality, mostly because the younger generation, people under 30, are much more aware of the current class warfare that is going on, and that if affects all races equally. It's taken 3 generations, but it's happened. Keep up the dialogue, let the angry white people march in the streets, their children will think they are crazy, their grandchildren will wonder what planet they were on. God save all of us from our own ignorance, fear and hatred.
I agree with you Edward however racism is so deeply inbeded in South Africa, In young black people who were not even there during the aparthied era and white people who were taught that black people are violent and ignorant. Being a South African and currently living in a specific area that has two towns very near each other but very very different I have little hope left. Some white afrikaans people are teaching their kids racism at a young age, the first town is white upperclass and benefiting greatly from Tourism, giving black people that have a deep history in this area only demoralizing jobs with low wage. Some of the older black people are very submissive and white children have been seen to discriminate them in front of their parents. They are producing a new generation of a racist society. People like this and Sunette the women from this video make it very hard moving forward because they still believe they should be superior and that their problems are of greater importance so they instill this into their kids. 50 % of the newer white generation are full on racist and arrogant, a quarter recognize in themselves some racist beliefs and are trying to change slowly(you have to give them props for this given the belief systems they grew up with) but find it increasingly difficult when racial tension arise from their white friends and relatives and the rest are mostly English and are living the South African rainbow nation dream with some privileged black people.
I really wish the aliens invade us, because then the the humans would realize the importance of togetherness. All our hearts will beat for each other at least? for sometime.
That wouldn't fix anything. Then it's an "Us vs Them" mentality all over again. District 9 explores that notion because the prawns are subjugated by everyone else in the country, even though the loophole in the story is that everyone then knows something that should have completely changed everything - that we are not alone in the universe - but conveniently forgets it to advance the plot. When people can accept others for who they are, accept that everyone's reality is different, that their life experiences are what shape them, that centuries of rule in a particular fashion have changed ingrained mindsets over hundreds of generations, then we can start practicing real tolerance. Otherwise, uniting the planet through a common enemy doesn't fix the root cause of the issue. The enemy of my enemy is my friend still leaves people as enemies when the external threat is diminished or defeated.
Lowen Herz black people here in America get all types of privileges that no other race gets.. they even have their own tv channels.. they have NAACP, affirmative action and plenty of other programs that give blacks people a 1 up in society.. if anything black people have more privilege than any other race in America..
Dakota Clarke just an FYI, for their first few decades of existence all of the tv networks were white. Affirmative action has benefited white women primarily. The only reason there are black media organizations is because there is a need. Obviously you’re not from the USA.
"The BIBLE" Greatest Book Ever Written. Last Days Prophesy! Babylon The Great (America) Is Falling. PSALM 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking LIES. All Praises To The Most High and his Son. My question is how did one class gain so much wealth?
I highly respect and admire the way the speaker “Khaya Dlanga” handled all situations which were ‘potentially offensive’ with a smile throughout the whole show. That’s the best way to carry out a constructive discussion, having a non-emotional mindset.💯
I remember I was a school kid and I used to love watching this show on SABC 2. Lol... it's funny I had already decided my career as a kid and didn't even realize.
@Corey Jones ... but it might be. Collectively they are horrible and the white supremacist systems and institutions they put in place is horrible. I have no love in my heart for their white supremacy. You can talk about individuals and lots of groups of good people, but that is not what is being talked about here.
Waouw!!!!! What a debate!!! Im stunned!!! I understand now...why my guy from Cape Town...told me that South Africa still has a long way 2 go...when it comes to race relations... As a Brasileiro🇧🇷 myself...I can say that we have our fair share of racism in Brasil...but not as harsh as what SA is still facing!!! I mean I still can't believe what "The Burg White man" said...on stage...unreal... Anyway praying that the situation will get better...
Sisonke Msimang makes a lot of sense and I think the proposal by made in her summing up about an appointed watchman in every institution tasked with the business of thinking through issues of racism and attending to it on a daily basis, makes a great deal of sense and I think it would be well worth pursuing.
Am from Kenya and i really do not know how i got here.... anyway, am here. I did not know South Africa was this divide. I really hope that such effort to bring reconciliation will bring exactly that.
Africans in SA are entering this conversation from a place of weakness. A place of begging. That is not going to work with the boers and other caucazoids. SA is an African country on the African continent. I never agree with Desmond on any of his utterances. But he is correct in saying that the caucazoids should be thankful for being allowed to go about their business in a peaceful manner. What I'm hearing is Africans still wanting to embrace the caucazoids and his values ala the red dress feminist. SA is not the USA. SA belongs to the Africans. Take pride in yourself SA. Go and resurrect Steve Biko.
The guy who spoke at 45:57 said it as it is. It is these old folks who hold on to memories of the past and try to instill them into this young generation. Otherwise us young folks we don’t see color instead we are curious and eager to learn each other’s cultures. Hence you see even interracial marriages nowadays
The first thing a country needs is a fair and strong justice system. Then it needs laws that reduce mass inequality. The inequality that places like the US or Europe experiences is small in comparison to South Africa.
"We have to want a better society more than we want to be right". So very true. We need to get beyond racism and just see ourselves as a society. Attack the issues not each other. Otherwise these issues will progress in the same way they did in the past. They might present themselves differently but they are the very same issues. As they say History repeats itself.
When you are defensive you would feel like you are being attacked because you don’t wanna change . You want things to be in your terms as perpetrators. You still Bhagwan to negotiate with us like you did with our land . You want to control our healing, thinking , trauma you wanna control everything and try to minimize our pain like it didnt happen, it’s history.,who do you think you are?
@BK , keep thinking you gave Africans anything. The day will come when any and every last one of you evil things will answers for that even the dead one.
This colored person told the bold faced truth : mixed race people thus colored people are not only left out of this debate here but have been left behind by post-apartheid society. Absolutely right.
If you look at the USA "coloureds"are blacks or mixed between black and white.They are black period.The whites don't even view them as part white as they came they view them as black.If you have any shade of blackness whites view you as black.Kudos to the Indian lady for coming to terms with her blackness
They are not left behind, they isolate themselves, and still believe they are different, that was apartheid classification. Yes they can maintain and retain cultural norms and practices.
@@alivebygrace3820 They are different. Always were. No subsaharan African ethnic group recognizes biracial and mixed race people as simply African / ethnic anywhere in the continent. They always considered mixed race . Africans know their own and mixed race people are not their own.
@@MultiSmartass1 tell me if the apartheid classification in them days had no colored classification and have it as black would we still have a coloured term today?
The question is "Has the Rainbow Nation project failed in South Africa?" The answer is in the political ideology of South Africa's (and most of Africa's) leadership and in the way the races think. I am a black Zimbabwean and the race debate has raged on in this country too and for too long. This is why... There are two different thought processes in people in general and I'm talking of people from both the main race groups, black and white. Both groups have people who on one side feel helpless to achieve what they aspire to in their lives on their own, as individuals, and need Government to intervene with some form of assistance, and both groups have people who think that they can better their lives through their own enterprise and believe Government actually intervenes too much and is actually mainly a hindrance to their progress in life. In Zimbabwe I can genuinely say most of our people (both black and white) are of the latter group, whereas, from what I've experienced with South Africa, it is the white population that seems to want a Government of a hands-off approach and the black population wanting one that assists them more. In Zimbabwe calls for racism largely and funnily come from the ruling elite and their supporters. There are plausible reasons why it is this way in SA, that it is the blacks who call for Government intervention, and it includes the deeper gravity of the segregation system of that country before Independence compared to Rhodesia's. Herein comes leadership - both South Africa and Zimbabwe, at independence, found themselves with leadership whose political ideology indulges more with the group that needs its intervention as these leaders had painted racism as THE issue which caused the majority of problems for the majority of the people before Independence. Racism WAS the issue! The black leaders of both countries have been in power now 40 years in Zimbabwe and almost 3 decades in South Africa and both countries are falling apart. Could it still be because of racism? A big, fat NO!!! Not among the peoples anyway. If anyone is really racist in these two nations today, it is the Governments of both countries. If we invite the Government to always jump in to sort out our problems as a people we will soon decay into basket cases, because the Government will happily oblige and grow larger and larger until it suffocates us all, especially these Governments with obsolete Marxist traits they inherited from socialist Soviet Union and communist China as they "helped" liberate Africa. The solution to this perceived racism is that people must stop whinging and 100 percent take care of their individual selves FIRST!!! We must stop being babies because someone white called me a darky (well, I AM dark skinned) or be hurt if another calls you a keffir (sp) when you know you believe in God. If there is still systematic racism that benefits the whites today then the present Governments have lied to us and must be voted out! Both Governments must free up the markets enough so that that lady whose kid is going to a school where all teachers are white doesn't face ridiculous red-taped hurdles to open up her own school in which she can have all black teachers, if she wishes; so that that black guy can be able to build or buy his own block of flats where he can rent them out to everyone else excluding the Afrikaans speakers, if he wishes. Let every individual be taught that they must take responsibility of their own lives. When you do that you are well on your way to prosperity and believe me, being prosperous of mind (having a mindset of abundance) gets you in an area where no outside forces (including ever intrusive Governments) can stop you from achieving your goals. These are greater values to teach the next generation than to give them false hopes that they will eventually inherit Oppehiemer's mines or Van Tonder"s farm The world is toooooooo full of goodness for anyone who is willing to go after it. You will not blame anyone or any system for your failures, but yourself. And you wouldn't blame history either. So, to summarize - South Africa's race problem is really a mindset problem. The whites want to just get on with their lives as best as they can without too much Govt interference and the blacks by and large want Govt to sort out their problems for them, and the Government's political ideology already encourages it to plough deeper into the peoples lives, which leads to disaster, welcome to Africa! If my poet sister is sincere that she really needs to hear how the whites agonize over past atrocities they committed then she must also be genuinely grateful that they did vote in the referendum to allow for democracy. Is she willing to go back in history to cry over injustices her own ancestors perpetrated? It is not practical The lesson we should learn from Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa is that when it seems you're on the greener side of the fence and someone on the dry side is saying they are being hurt by people on your side, listen to them and stand up for them because keeping quiet or even supporting your people can leave you with too many regrettable problems to deal with in the future, just as true as supporting and benefiting from the corruption of these two Governments today without hearing the cries of those outside the system will. Although the Rhodesia and the apartheid South Africa Governments ruled over free market economies, developing their nations faster than the rest of Africa, they excluded the blacks from participation.That was racist! True capitalism demands that everyone be included and the whole nation will prosper. As a result dissent arose, and look where both countries are now!
The conversation is not long enough to have an impact, but it is a start. I would love more. Eyes are still glued, mouth is sewed together ears are plugged may God please have mercy Help us all .
@Travis Decker. Not much has changed with the 'white' man's coward policy to divide and rule. He does not understand civility and living in harmony with others. It's no wonder many call him the devil.
That's like saying "what's the difference between an Italian and a Russian or what's the difference between an Chinese and a Indonesian" Khoi were the original inhabitants of Southern Africa that diverged from the rest of humanity tens of thousands of years ago. Blacks are Bantu peoples who arrived a few thousand years ago. Coloreds are a mix of Khoi, Bantu and Whites that spawned hundreds of years ago.
Khoi khoi is an indigenous tribe like other black tribes, black is a race not a tribe, coloured is a lost group who has no identity I mean they dont no if they r black or black or pink according their race,,
As a proud African and obviously black man, I am shocked at the level of division seen during this panel. To see clear black people who claim to be colored and believe to be a different race, I never thought I could see this somewhere, let alone in the country of Madiba. Clearly, I was mistaken. But I am glad I came across this Video because I am educating myself. Thumbs up for the debate over all because that is the way people could feel the pain of others.
Sir you must be consider that the the socalled white south arfikan has socially institutionalized the population into a caste system whereby the African at the bottom. And the end of apartheid is ended only on paper . You got indians and blacks calling themself colored. Now that is sick.
Watching this in 2024. This debate just proves there's no feasible way of dealing with racism in a country colonised, along with still having these people present in the country.
Thank you for this debate. I don't live in South Africa, however, I find these debates so educative, especially for an Eastern European as I am, who speaks quite well 4 languages( Romanian(native), Russian, French, and a little bit English), but who doesn't know very well the reality in Africa. I do agree with the fact that the Colonial Era has done terrible things to Africans and not only with them. Those were terrible times in your country as it were in mine during the Ottoman Empire or URSS. That is the History, unfortunately. We can change our future. However, I pray for your country. I do believe that segregation on racial issues can lead to horrible things like Haulocast as it happened with Jews(and to other people such as Slavs, gipsies, Chinese during the Second World War). So please, try to find solutions for all the people in your country and live in peace. My name is Anna and I am just me, not white, not black, not coloured. So you should feel the same and be proud of that as well.
A very insightful debate after all, however, it is sad to note that an expressive element like "Colour" is now used to sow seeds of discord in the lives of men by human beings. That shows how narrow minded people can be. Social injustice and economic inequality syndrome was brought to limelight in the 17th century, the intention was to adopt it as white propaganda to kill, steal, destroy and dominate. Of course, it was successfully operated for over 400 years in various regions in Africa and the dividends are visible in the so called " Civilized Nations ". Africans are yet to recover from the embarrassment they received from the strangers they gave much love. Now the narrative or the paradigm is beginning to shift......like " Climate Change" and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about that, because there is time and season for every thing under the sky. The natural law, the law of karma, and Divine law are together in this course.........treat others the way you would have them treat you. No nation can live in peace and harmony until there is equal right, love, tolerance and justice! And in every action, there is always a reaction.
I feel like we forgive people who didn't ask for forgiveness...
That is so true.
Damn...
This is true. But the thing about "forgiveness" is that its for you more than it is for the other person. it sets the forgiver free from the burden of hate...the forgiven person has different path to walk....they need more then to be forgiven in order to deal with their demons.
PREACHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
Forgiving is ok, but forgetting is not.
I'm watching this for the first time in 2024, and there couldn't be a better time for this to pop up on my recommendations.
Fast forward to 10 years later, and our country is deteriorating.
I really do pray that my generation is able to make a change for the better.
There is never a day that goes by where I do not stop praying for South Africa
I'm really hoping that this coming election will bring about improvement and peace among it's people 🙏🏾
God bless this country ❤
Me too
it wont because blacks will never take any responsibility for their actions. many support killing their own country man as a good thing.
No honestly
Amen to that, let's keep keeping on
I wish America would do this as well
You can preserve your culture without being racist or xenophobic.
No they can't 🤣 look at your history madam that is their culture
@@DNGM-fk5dv it's high time they learn to...
Very true
This goes for all races
Not racist.just LOVE OF SELF.
First time listening to this in 2023. The most eye opening comment was we allowed you to vote in 1992. And the response, "it wasnt yours to give."
Mime was what about the terrorizing, torture, and murder targeting of white farmers to the response "blacks are more likely to suffer violence and incarceration.
Wth is that!?? One is very INTENTIONAL hence "targeting" and is very obvious hatred and purely SYSTEMATIC RACISM (truthfully) the other is a result of the culture and crime within their own ranks. The two couldn't be further apart! And on the side of TRUE systemic racism, the very PRESIDENT sings about killing the bores/WHITES!
Apartheid talking.
Reminds me (a white American) of those white Americans who say stuff like, "Where's our 'thank you' for abolishing slavery?" or, "We outlawed Jim Crow".
@@JSmusiqalthinka white people did help.
😅@@JSmusiqalthinka
10 years later and nothing has CHANGED really!!!
Facts Just got Worse
Can't believe it bud, but it's true
It's go so until the end of human beings then comes back freedom without these people in this world
I am a Ghanaian and I really enjoyed this debate. It was very intellectual and peaceful. Long live South Africa, long live Ghana, long live Africa😘
Love that white guy he❤has great heart n mind
This UCT lecture is very wise and calm.
Brilliant man
I like his smile
@@TheKing60210❤❤❤
@@petersharma4770neely fuller is the answer
Watching this for the first time today in 2023. It’s a disappointing that as a young person, I had the idea that this kind of conversation wasn’t possible. But it happened, just a few years ago. They need to do this again.
You must live on the moon
This was NINE YEARS AGO nearly 10 not "a few".
Trust me it is no better there by ANY means than in America! It is all an agenda to divide and these ideas are all put in their minds just like "systemic racism" in America. These are all built on lies or straight up lies period put out for the agenda of ultimate divide and conquer. Do you not notice the same words being used there as in America??? If not "racism/slavery" beingnused they use "systemic violence" which was caused by the TRIBES FIGHTING INE ANOTHER and the problem SIN...laziness, bitterness, covetousness! And the people use it to steel and take what doesn't belong to them in a lawful country. They begin with with small "debates" backed with known lies in order to grow bigger into pure hatred.
Yes talking is the way to go about it
Yes it needs to come back
@@godswrath5626 lol
I can't believe i am only watching this in 2020. It's so important and i wish there was more of this dialogue.
What is white culture.
That is the question...?
This is a African nation PERIOD! The discussion needs to start there.
The "Rainbow Nation" is NOT anthropological. The Africans were in Africa long BEFORE the arrival of eurocoids to the planet.
Notwithstanding, according to Dr. Johannes Krauss a biochemist from Germany...
"100% of EHGs had black skin and blue eyes and seem to be the HERC2 gene deletion and the white phenotype is only about 4,000 years old..."
In other words the first humans in Europe itself were from Africa proper and "they had black skin and blue eyes" long BEFORE the arrival of Europeans to the planet as we know them today.
Finally, the African environment favored darker pigment specifically as a response to the African Sun's ultraviolet radiation.
In the final analysis, it what your DNA says who you are not skin color.
REVIEW: African Ancestry Testing Corporation
Africanancestey.com
REVIEW: CARTA "Human DNA and Evolution of Ancient European History" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany.
ruclips.net/video/JTY9K1Q_Sbg/видео.html
REVIEW: "The Genetic Differences between Europeans Explained" by Dr. Johannes Krauss (Biochemistry) Max Plank Institute of Germany
ruclips.net/video/B_p8pzGTXc4/видео.html
Black people are not native to South Africa the Zulus and Xhosa are BANTU TRIBES from west Africa who colonised and committed genocide against the khoisan and the white Dutch came to South Africa first.
@phola nzungu I can't believe I'm seeing this now
@@natanyaaberra8735 Who cares! We are all humans and bleed the red blood.
Isn't it a bit odd??
SA has more than 80% of black population but, they are the one discriminated!!!
How can it possible??!
The blacks have the power in South Africa. Since that, all minorities (whites,indians,coloureds, khoi, etc.) face discrimination against them, getting jobs for example. OF COURSE there is racism. The racism by the blacks against all others, especially whites.
Adri Norse Fire
so the black people are racist as well ?
Dimakatso Maubane You are an ignorant. Khoi are not black, just because they have black skin. They are capoids, that means other race idiot.
the same way it was during the apartheid period
Adri Norse Fire haha...who came up with that?
Can we have monthly sessions of these debates to facilitate healing amongst South Africans, it will be good for our country on all levels.
Not only talk about it but also give solutions.
The only thing that can fix black people around the globe that's facing Racism. Black people must first understand what is White Supremacy and how does it work. Until we learn and understand White Supremacy, everything we know about racism will confuse us. The White South Afrikaners stolen the black people land, properties and countries resources, instead of giving back what they stolen. They have to create three Societies to fight against black South Africans. It's sad for me to see black people in South Africa, called themselves Coloured People, because of our Ancestors been raped by Colonizers and a Political Construct to have the Coloured people on their side against black South Africans. Coloured People, you have mixes of Colonizers blood, but you are still black people, with lighter shades of blackness. This a trick they used in the United States of America.
@@michaelcampbell5817 Powerful
America doesn't even do this anymore
@@michaelcampbell5817 THEY NEED THERE BLACKS AMERICAN BROTHERS..
Making South Africa united is like trying to mix water and oil.
I'm guessing you've never used those ingredients to cook
Yes because we trying to accommodate whites in our country did us wrong so racist n arrogance we still caring pain they don't they think we stupid we see everything..
True
You need heat or pressure to mix the two.
@bororobo3805 Exactly.
So these "heated" conversations are what will bring us together
How do you speak from love when youve been hated for generations
True
Now the whites Hated for 2 generations in SA, im curious how world Will be in 2080
@@drinkwater9891 dude im 101% White but not stupid and even more not hatefull i hate that apartheid system too
@Nanda Das thanks💪🏻🙏🏻
@Nanda Das yes my man✊🏻✊🏿
Im Kenyan and after watching this debate im so much in pain. South Africa has a lot of work to do to attain healing and reconcilliation. That boer shocked me.
Why ?
Apartheid just ended Thirty Years ago so of course the SA Nation will always have issues of love and life you know.
They don't learn from their mistakes, they make it even harder and unintelligent for me. These politicians aren't fully trained. They're simply the things that have been used for nothing::
I am inpressed about the law lecturer views. He was been frank to the issues of racism in SA.
Yeah I was also wowed. Especially because he is white but acknowledges privileges he has because of the color of his skin.
You're falling for the good cop bad cop shitt.
That mlungu stated the obvious and didn't offer any solutions.
Now ya'll think he's one of the "good ones"
We are in 2024 and its still sad how this conversation changed nothing💔💔💔so sad
So long as we ignore Tommy Curry then this will persist
IT'S 5 YEARS since this conversation and THINGS REMAIN THE SAME. Why?
U know how our country operates all about talking but no action
It's because you are so focused on 'whites' that you aren't paying attention to yourselves. Whites just carry on, and make sure they educate our children come hell or high water, and make sure they are professionally okay. More of their energy goes into the right places.
Poor families do not have access to the internet nor to good education. And since most poor families were black to start in 1994 the demographics remain the same.
But there are plenty more middle class black people than there are white people. That's progress. It's just the percentages that are skewed. If 75% of whites are middle class then that's only 3.5 million people.
You can't fix the poverty or the demographic disparity by 'solving' white people.
@Nanda Das u r Indian south African aren't u ? I am one from natal.
@@VonBinde hai voetsek man ur gat
@@Sumarai21 Add to the conversation and I'll consider hearing you out. But if you throw unintelligible insults, then I'll just assume you are trolling - and not care 👋
This video showed me that the black men in the room were more concerned with white acceptance and interracial relationships rather than black equality. I appreciated the white people honestly admitting that they want to keep their race pure and that obviously bothered the black men in the room.
Interesting 🤔
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Bingo! This has always been their downfall. Same in America
So true💯
Thus is true everywhere...in Europe, Africa and North America. Marrying out for black males is their twisted idea of success and acceptance.
Homeboy in the orange shirt had his hand up damn near the whole show haha
I was starting to feel sorry for him😭😭
Yeah I saw that 😄😆😆😆
He’s probably wearing orange to draw attention after his failed attempt last time. Alas, he failed yet again.
YESSSS.
Ohh poor boy
I want to thank the YT algorithm for showing me this video! I learned a lot about South Africa as an American.
Skip to 46.02 this young man hit the nail on the head...One Love Umfowethu.
2:00 who told them to forgive
This young man doesn't know what he's talking about. This young man is a product of programming.
European people and African people live together because they have to accept each other. Black people know why white people are in South Africa, and it's not because they care about the country or the people, it's something else.
Forgive, but be wary, always remember white people did, and remember they haven't really changed, they're just hiding their time. Time will tell.
As a Afro 🇬🇾🇱🇨Caribbean American I love everything about this debate. Glad to see my brother and sister in Africa are speaking up for their rights. ✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾❤
🇯🇲❤️✊🏿
@Malika Byron, my sister, that's how I identify as well. Afro Caribbean American. My husband, who's from Nigeria 🇳🇬 thinks am creating problems on the census every time. I thought I was the only one ooo.
Not only they right but our right
💯🇬🇾🙌🏽
I want them to stand with anyone who right and stand against anyone that has wrong ideas!
The most saddening thing is that this is just going to end here and probably action and change will be seen the next few decades to come.
Neely fuller has remedies
It's crazy that blacks are discriminated by the people who colonised them. The cheek of it.
But they love it and prefer it than live with their brothers. Ask them.
@@seanfacts3498 As a person with Stockholm Syndrome comes to sympathize with their captor/oppressor.
We cannot "forget" our histories of oppression and say to "move on" until all of our children have the same starting point in society regardless of their skin colour
That’s crazy.
Why would it take only a couple of generations to catch up to a civilization that is advanced by a couple thousand years?
Forget history? I think we need to Truly know our history, the entire stretching story of it - instead of looking at specific sections, out of context, for political expediency
Yes there is poor whites but did they become poor at the extent of racism.? To be honest being poor is another conservation.
But that what it was history. Move on, no is a slave right now, so I don't get this whole debate, unless you hate white people.
Amen!!!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
right
Who is watching this today during Covid19 pandemic and #BlacklivesMatter ?
Me 😊
And I must admit that I am so ignorant coming form Arabic World not knowing about This problem 😢I guess we are sockets in our own problems 😱😥😥
Boring. One of the most common comments over the last 3 odd months.
Me and my answer is above.
I am. It's impossible to ignore the problems of our own country when we are to focused on #BLM in America
All black lives should matter, friend
6 years old & still a stunning debate. Hats off !
9yrs after this conversation and all I can think is same shit different year.
We need The Big Debate back again
What for? To hear more noise?
If we had more people like Mr De Vos and lebo the poet this country would be much better
I'm not from Africa, but what I sense is black people are tiring of the "get over it" attitude of whites. There seems to be some healing that needs to be done. But that is difficult to do when the person/persons who are a product of the wound, tell you to get over it.
You said it all
Yeah because they know that if the shoe was on the other foot and they themselves were on the receiving end of over 3 to 4 hundred years of oppression within their own countries they would be singing the same song, case closed
Healing in this sense means a place without whites. How do I know this? Well we have all the evidence we need right here in American colleges. Places of healing (where whites are not allowed). Blacks are the most racist people on the earth at this moment. Not just against whites either.
In the end all you can do is get over it and move on , or fight and kill, take your pick
Whites don't sy "get over it," they say "stop claiming that you are a victim or entitled to what you did not earn." Pretty logical to me
Africa belongs to africans, black n brown, no colonial bs
Europe belongs to Europeans sent the blacks home
Simple... keep your culture, just know the land belongs to the nations. Being different isn't the problem, poverty and exclusion from economic equality is.
Nah deport those fuckers. They wanted to genocide the whole of South Africa if it was up to them.
Listen you black South African I just want to get something off my chest. I am Zimbabwean and you black South Africans always sugar coat your racist bull shit mentality. Lets talk about xenophobia and how you people brutally murder Black Zimbabweans? I want a answer for that ASAP!
Now I am not talking about racism i'm talking of tribalism and how you murder black Zimbabweans. I WANT A ANSWER ASAP!
NOW
@Chi Oke If you say that I have inherited colonization from my ancestors you have a low IQ, Well anyway then you have inherited slavery from your ancestors if I'm a colonizer because of my ancestors were then you are a slave because your ancestors. Now that's the logic we talking about here you ignorant idiot, so it boils down to this, I'm a colonizer and you are a SLAVE.
Starting at 20:16, the professor has given the answer as to why racism exists. Racism has always been about POWER! Groups that oppress other people will CONTINUE to oppress other culture because they are wanting to keep the control they have! If people were not so greedy and power hungry, racism would have been abolished a long time ago.
Yup. The problem isn't race. It's human nature.
This is what I have been telling people, the problem of racism stems from the systems that we have in place all over the world. Racists are Racists because of the power and privilege they aquire through these disproportionate systems that we all utilize today.
If people of color, especially people of African descent were to focus on creating new systems and getting rid of the old ones, there would be an instantaneous shift in the social and economic power dynamic on the globe.
The system is the disease, racism is a symptom.
Right.
@@smokeyg.5060 *You're conflating what was said. Racism is not human nature.*
If we didn't see race as people we won't have a racism problem because we all human
Great show and this needs to happen every now and then until it sinks in. Thank you
Agreed 🤝 ❤
@@efremteenagebento67014:45 my people fight back
You can't solve a problem, until you admit that there is a problem.
Steve Biko warned them
I wish we have such debates in my country Sierra Leone to talk about the real reasons towards the backwardness of our country. One love to South Africa and Africa as a whole
Get the right, people-minded politicians into power in Sierra Leone.... corruption must go....or no progress
The real reasons have nothing to do with racism. Maybe host a debate on IQ.
We cannot focus on love, We need to focus on justice. Without justice there is no love.
Focus on yourself
@BK Sounds about white.
YES!!! I can only find love when the philosophy of the European has been crippled and killed.
@BK No, you need to sacrifice personal gain over everything just to see the next generation better than ours.
@bkanjilal you built nothing the Africans did
I think the elephant in the room needs to be discussed. The problem is that Europeans since the 1400s have been the main issue. They have controlled the Americas, islands, and Africa. So, when Africans on the continent and in the diaspora express their disgust and displeasure with the white supremacy system, it always poses a problem for them. They feel we should not voice our opinion regarding the circumstances we are placed in by their force and systematic machinations. All of it was done on the basis of controlling capitalism and power
Their comeuppance is coming. It's prophesied.
" CAPITALISM "
DE - CAP THE
HEAD OF THE
OTHER
MISOLOGY THEORY
OF HATE
and FORCE
IMPOSING
MISERY
to
Mis - REPRESENTA -
TION
TAUNTING -
MOCKERY
for BEING
MA ' JORITY
THE
MOTHER LAND
PRIMARY FIRST
LEAD ADVERSARY
PTOLEMY with
LEGIONS
" GOD TOLD ME
GO INTO THE
LAND . . . "
( INVADERS , A.D. )
SUMMARY by
NEGRA Maggie
PLEA
ADVOCATE since
1960s
" HINDSIGHT 20 20 "
TAJ
HEART CROWN
WISDOM
THE ONLY DOM
N.I.S.A.I. by
N.I.N.E. ; . . .3Sq
PEACEMA ' NY !
@@m.patsyfauntleroy9645 you'll say bad of socialism if you lived in Soviet Union.
You think africans are the only people who where oppressed?Do some research.How many afrikaner people do you see today that still blame the british for killing their families and took everything they had.Through history bad things happen but people get themselves out of it there are multiple examples of this.I do feel sorry for those who are affected but many people just blame others without even trying to put in the effort ,no one else is going to do it for you.Focus on solutions and not problems.@Terre Griffin
@@BecaCamarto you don't know that. And you don't even live in Russia. Your comment is very useless
😄😅😄 that Boer said we never wanted unity and he's telling the truth...
He was the only one telling the truth.
Yep... And I accepted his view because he is being honest
@@twentyfifty2050 seriously, when people tell you how they feel, we need to believe them. Some people will try to explain this away.
But there's black person there who keeps on voting for them and believes in their leadership 😅
This is a reminder that "When you are first to have the upper hand, treat those without it right, for the tide will surely change".
Or, keep your foot on their throat.
@@chesterdonnelly1212 Keep your foot on their throat?
Well, when the tide changes to their favor over you, they might have more complex ideas of how to repay you with more brute than you could muster. Treat others exactly as you want to be treated.
@@benban8055 too late. What is done is done. The past cannot be changed. I am British. Britain killed millions. But I didn't kill anyone.
@@chesterdonnelly1212 I am British too. Who you are doesn't make what I'v said untrue. What was done then is still happening now in many other ways, even in Britain. Whether you are a perpetrator or not is your choice to make.
@@benban805510:10 white peoples pain as more important
Both black women are so incredible, the poet and the activist they are saying things with so much power and accuracy that you are being forced to listen to them with great attention. They have seduced handily the audience by their strenght of mind and broaden Knowledge updated over the time.
I am so under the spell that I am being bound to write to pay tribute for their work over Blackness.
Stop with blackness, its all about being humanness. Blks want to be felt heard but that is not the point....All women need to be heard , as there is no women better than the other. BLM movement?? What happen to the monies raised by the movement?? Gone? Just like we have a blk government that continually rapes the people of basic service's. So lets move foward and speak about humans not blk and white.
I also encourage WHITENESS, dont call me a racist
The guilty never wants to apologize
TBOTSS how are we wrong own up to what your ancestors caused and we can work together to fix it
Blacks are always innocent
why does every YT person need to apologize? most YT people have no power any anyone black nor do they actively do anything to harm them..its only the ones in power and with wealth...
Guilty of what moron , you'll got on the slave boat on your own , you could have died right there, but noooo, you broke weak and got on the boat .
💯% TRUE.
bring these types of conversations back.
I'm not from South Africa but I truly enjoy this type of debate where people from different races who share the same country are given opportunity to express themselves on issues facing their country. This is the best moment !
That's America
@@lindaburnette195 basically
@@lindaburnette195 low key white south Africans sound like 1960’s southern Americans 😮
Don’t be silly my brother, we can’t let South Africa become another America, My Native Brothers tried to talk too.
Only thing that is going to work is for all people to come to a great meeting place in the world of the fact that we are not separated by race for the fact that we are ONE RACE created but we have different in pigment by the area that we have inhabited on the world. Our environment has been the only thing that has made us different in appearance. It has to change or we will not survive with hate and bigotry for each other!!!
The UCT lecturer is being very honest and Sunnet is ignorant
Typical white barbie throwing a tantrum because some of "her toys" are being taken away.
@@Mowizzy1 Please don't try fight racism with racist slurs. She is actually right-leaning or very conservative. Which is tied to the Big Five personality model. It's not because of the colour of her skin. There are plenty of left and right leaning people of all races.
@@VonBinde She's an ignorant. A privileged ignorant.
@@broadcastmadnesss I'm happy with that. As long as you don't say she is privileged and /or ignorant because of her skin tone. She might be privileged due to her class, or due to other factors. But not because she is white. That's the core of my message.
I agree with this line “it wasn't your vote to give because it wasn't your country to take ay first”
At the time, conquest was the way land was acquired. Zulus were doing the same thing.
Yes the western africans Bantus genocided the original south africans
@@chesterdonnelly1212 the first people had no conquest.
@@fullplates the first people were the San.
@@oompaloompa3188 as everyone knows our people thats such a crazy generalization. I personally give away 100,000 a year to the less fortunate. i work 100 hours weeks. But I get your point, I'm just saying that the original south africans have been discriminated against and obviously slaughtered in the past (of course all past history has been full of slaughtering etc.) I'm not justifying the crimes of the colonists (started by the elite back then]
This is the best debate I have ever seen. I love this.. Everyone's views can be used to change their country
As a Nigerian i thought we have problem until i saw this, and this might be the same in every africa countries which shows the problem is not about tribe or colour but poverty ,why a nation is doing badly(bad leaders) people try to identify with their tribe and colour.
Corruption and greed is problem. I look at Zimbabwe and Rwanda for an examples of violence that has to do with evil leadership
You do have a problem, worse than ours
The main problem isn't bad leaders or poverty, the main problem that we face as a continent that cause all these socio-economic issues is the systems that we have in place, that enable such socio-economic to thrive.
The systems that we utilize weren't structured to serve the African people, they were structured to serve foreign interests, that's why there's more capital going out of the continent, than in.
@Fezile Nkabinde Do you know how much western nations take from Africa annually? Trillions of dollars
Corruption only contributes to $60 billion of the total amount of money smuggled out of the continent.
The systems that you are utilizing are not helping you, the African people, to economically grow your continent. Do you know how much America takes out of our country annually? $400 billion, not rands, dollars, and they have been doing this for decades, long before the ANC.
We have a $410 billion economy, even half of that amount of net worth is enough to develop the country, yet we don't see this development. You can't blame that on the ANC, no matter how long the ANC has been in power, they would not have been able to smuggle such an immeasurable amount of money out of the country, it's impossible.
The systems that you work under weren't structured for you, dozens of economists have literally said this, Moeletsi Mbeki an economist himself, has said that our South African economy, and the broader African economy was structured to serve foreign interests, not African interests.
Africa economy was not structured to be industrialist, it's wasn't structured to manufacture, it was structured to be a raw material exporter, that's why you see so much poverty and underdevelopment in the continent.
The Continent is literally in a debt trap because of organizations like the WEF. Western nations can pay their debt in their own currency, even though they are trillions of dollars in
debt, yet African countries can't do this, they have to pay their debts with their massively devalued currencies into dollars, you know how economically depriving that is?
You are asking what is stopping the ANC from changing the system? The ANC doesn't have economic power 🙃 have you ever heard of the sunset clause?
This is the same story throughout the continent, africans don't have economic control of their own economies. 85-90% of corporations in the continent are owned by westerners, Asians and Arabs.
You could go to Namibia, Zambia, Angola, Zimbabwe etc, and see the exact same thing, you don't have control over your own economy, if you don't have economic power, you don't have any transformational power at all.
Ay ay ay Don't compare South Africa with world scammers. The way Nigeria is so fake I doubt it even exist
South Africa is a fractured mirror
A paradox of schizophrenic selves
Who do not talk to one another
Who fear each other......I felt that Lebo, I felt that.
I am watching this in awe. I honestly am broken that this is reality. being from america and going through racism and to see in SOUTH AFRICA that they cant or are being told that they have no right to their ancestors land. And for the mixed race to say that the blacks dnt belong when they are part black. that is totally strange to me. And how the whites say that they have rights to the land that their ancestors took from the natives. I hope that one day this will be rectified and the people will heal emotionally and bring it all together. And as for me here i hope for the same because we are still going through the division. Once we as ppl of color understand that no matter how light or dark we are we are still the same in others eyes. Period
THE WHITE MAN SAID.... A BLACK SAID THEY NEED TO KILL WHITES.....AND WHITE MAN COMPLAINED THAT NO ONE REBUKED HIM ALL CALLED IT RACISM.....THIS IS TYPICAL.........I WAS ORDAINED ELDER IN ONE OF THE LARGEST BLACK DENOMINATIONS IN USA AND WE HAD A MEETING IN CHURCH AND BISHOP WAS SPEAKING AND HE SAID.."GO OUT AND KILL WHITEY.." AND NOT ONE BLACK PERSON STOOD UP AND CORRECTED HIM OR APOLOGIZED TO ME.....EXCEPT THE THE BISHOP SAID TO ME " EXCUSE ME REVEREND KING BUT THIS IS AMERICA..."...NOW IF ANY WHITE PREACHER IN MOST WHITE CHURCHES I HAVE BEEN IN EVER SAID GO OUT AND KILL BLACKIE THE WHOLE CHURCH WOULD RISE UP AGAINST THIS KIND OF HATE TALK.........I TOLD A BLACK PASTOR AND ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS THIS STORY AND THEY BOTH LAUGHED..AS SOME OF YOU BLACK BIGOTS MIGHT THINK IT WAS FUNNY.......BUT I KNOW LOVELY BLACKS THAT WOULD SAY THAT IS TERRIBLE...SO MAKE YOUR CHOICES IF YOU WANT TO BE A BLACK RACIST OR A WHITE RACIST...ME I WANT NONE OF THIS TRASH...BUT IT SEEMS LIKE BLACK RACISM IS ON THE RISE HERE IN USA AS IT IS IN SOUTH AFRICA.
Those mixed race people in SA are a mess, white people have gotten deep into their heads
@Koko Doka Couldn't have said it better
I can remember a time when the church didn't have to say the words, they just used the bible to help pack millions of Black Africans on boats like sardines, ship to the west, die at sea, get tarred and feathered and the rest is history...the meek shall inherit the earth...slaves, servants...justified with the Holy Bible...Bigots have children, and grand, and great and great great grandchildren...in the Name of Jesus!
@Peter September but y'all are black too. This is why it's confusing. Like you are in Africa the land of the blacks and you called or see yourself different from all others. This is how the european beat us and conquer. They mobilize, come together and defeat. But us no matter what country u are from your are still and African born within your tribe. When ppl start to understand this only then can the continent be a power to recon with. Even in Europe they know they european within their respective groups. That's all. And if u dnt see ur self as such and have those who try to connect with u then what is it to do. From my experience i see a lot of coloreds be closer to the dutch travelers who settled there and is claiming it lands but u fight with ppl who are from there and migrated from surrounding countries. San ppl are my ppl as well. Born in America looking at how divided the clans are is very sad. I mean look at is here. Most are trying to come together to mend and repair the damage of many yrs of killing, divided and forced hate towards each other. It's not where we want to be but it's better than it was. And africans born in America are trying to become one unite knowing that we are different and part of many tribes but have one goal. Freedom, self sustaining and not allowing 5hose who wish us harm to control our stories, lives and culture anymore.
These are some very intelligent folks. That lady in red is golden! Was a pleasure viewing this debate.
She really is a gem! So eloquent!
"I'm not here as an Indian woman I'm here as a Black woman" bombshell I tell you
Love you sister from a Xhosa guy
She is a real one...very seldom do you come across that and I salute her✊🏿
She looks black
The dalits of Indian culture
Yes but she's Indian not a black woman.
How can you call yourself something you aren't?
@faith umuk I was surprised someone like her would say that in all places Subsaharan Africa.
I mean isn't there an Indian community in SA? Kind of to say "I'm not here as an Indian". Sounds slightly Rachel Dolezalish to me
The Whites will not even clap with the audience, THEY NEED TO CHANGE THEIR HEART
Their heart is filled with pure evil
Im in the same culture as those white men, and in our culture its not so mandated to clap for anything
Only God can change hearts...hearts that desire to change so they can love. Hate does not want to love
Self hatred and self acceptance is one of the biggest problem in South Africa. Black people are divided among themselves... when a black man can see himself as coloured, and not black because he is mixed race. But much blacker than me who considers myself black. Then there lies the problem
Are you South African?
Are you Coloured?
Being Coloured isn't as simple as "mixed race"
Coloured people outnumber white people, but the debate is set up as black vs white. South Africa is not just black and white. Why must he choose a side? Coloured are not black or white. Coloured are coloured.
@@wandiledlamini4916 of course, it would be nice to get our land back but I'm not going to waste my life wishing for something that will never happen.
@@wandiledlamini4916 I’m not sure I want to fight for land. It’s sad how our grandparents were removed from their homes and dumped on the Cape flats. They suffered and our parents suffered. But I think we need to put that behind us and focus on improving our communities.
@@wandiledlamini4916 things can always be better, or worse.
The Africans are 81% of the country. Coloureds and Asians ( from India) have some of the wealth. Whites have a large amount of the corporations. The Blacks have the Parliament since 1994!
I am 64 years old, read "Cry The Beloved Country" when I was 13, and lived through the end of "Jim Crow" segregation laws in the Southern United States, and the attempt to end "De Facto" segregation is large non Southern Cities. I'm also White. Until white people take a hard look at our centuries of racism that is deeply embedded in our culture and religion. Not much will chafe. And in all fairness, most people have difficulty with that sort of change after age 30, sometimes 20.
South Africa has in immense amount of pain over race. Too many people on both sides of the equation hang on to that pain, and use it as a shield. And those who have power, are loathe tl give it up. I agree with Desmond Tutu, whites in South Africa are very lucky.
But the larger issue that the whole country needs to deal with is moving from a mostly agricultural nation, that needs cheap labor, to an industrial and technological nation that is much more prosperous and can create jobs for more of it's people. It took Korea 40 years to move from a third world country to the powerhouse that it is today. You can do it too, but you have to stop the blame game (white folks) and accept that your black neighbors are God's children and deserving of a full measure of dignity, respect and INCOME.
The United States is much closer to equality, mostly because the younger generation, people under 30, are much more aware of the current class warfare that is going on, and that if affects all races equally. It's taken 3 generations, but it's happened.
Keep up the dialogue, let the angry white people march in the streets, their children will think they are crazy, their grandchildren will wonder what planet they were on.
God save all of us from our own ignorance, fear and hatred.
Thank you Sir couldn't have said it better my self.
Well said.
I agree with you Edward however racism is so deeply inbeded in South Africa, In young black people who were not even there during the aparthied era and white people who were taught that black people are violent and ignorant. Being a South African and currently living in a specific area that has two towns very near each other but very very different I have little hope left. Some white afrikaans people are teaching their kids racism at a young age, the first town is white upperclass and benefiting greatly from Tourism, giving black people that have a deep history in this area only demoralizing jobs with low wage. Some of the older black people are very submissive and white children have been seen to discriminate them in front of their parents. They are producing a new generation of a racist society. People like this and Sunette the women from this video make it very hard moving forward because they still believe they should be superior and that their problems are of greater importance so they instill this into their kids. 50 % of the newer white generation are full on racist and arrogant, a quarter recognize in themselves some racist beliefs and are trying to change slowly(you have to give them props for this given the belief systems they grew up with) but find it increasingly difficult when racial tension arise from their white friends and relatives and the rest are mostly English and are living the South African rainbow nation dream with some privileged black people.
We are joined = we will never be = .
Well said❤❤❤
Why are they wasting their time trying to reason with people who have no business their to begin with?
This is the question of a lifetime. If this situation was the other way around, there would be no talking.
You got that right.
+Danielle Rameau I've been saying that for years. I refuse to debate and argue with white people over racism and discrimination.
Carmen T it's going down now.
Puglous what do you mean
Wow!!! This is Really Bad, I had no idea it was this Bad. My African Brothers and sister stay strong.
such a racist
as a AFRO CARRIBEAN person i'm happy to see tge real AFRICANS BRO AND SIS is rising up hope all of us can ruse up togeher and help each other .
lol keep destroying yourselves.
My brother you are Caribbean AND African, if anything you’re as real an African as me an African from Africa don’t forget that✊🏿
@@hlogilehlogonolo5438what happened to Garvey
@@hlogilehlogonolo5438she channelled Walter Rodney
Take back what was stolen from the people.
You want war?
Exactly! European in Africa will never change, they must fokof
@@RSVPrr16:00 is that a wig
I really wish the aliens invade us, because then the the humans would realize the importance of togetherness. All our hearts will beat for each other at least? for sometime.
That wouldn't fix anything. Then it's an "Us vs Them" mentality all over again. District 9 explores that notion because the prawns are subjugated by everyone else in the country, even though the loophole in the story is that everyone then knows something that should have completely changed everything - that we are not alone in the universe - but conveniently forgets it to advance the plot.
When people can accept others for who they are, accept that everyone's reality is different, that their life experiences are what shape them, that centuries of rule in a particular fashion have changed ingrained mindsets over hundreds of generations, then we can start practicing real tolerance.
Otherwise, uniting the planet through a common enemy doesn't fix the root cause of the issue. The enemy of my enemy is my friend still leaves people as enemies when the external threat is diminished or defeated.
CataclysmZA second para - That would be heaven.
Sorry there r no aliens' BUT THERE IS A GOD' the only way
CataclysmZA You are a very intelligent individual. No truth greater than what you've said.
So race isn't real but aliens *are*.
Being black it´s hard no matter where you were born IT´S ALWAYS A BIG CHALLENGE
What advantages do white people have over black..?
@@dakota481 check some statistics data and realize by yourself.
Lowen Herz so you can not provide any ...? Give me one for an example.
Lowen Herz black people here in America get all types of privileges that no other race gets.. they even have their own tv channels.. they have NAACP, affirmative action and plenty of other programs that give blacks people a 1 up in society.. if anything black people have more privilege than any other race in America..
Dakota Clarke just an FYI, for their first few decades of existence all of the tv networks were white. Affirmative action has benefited white women primarily. The only reason there are black media organizations is because there is a need. Obviously you’re not from the USA.
God bless that black woman in red. This is a classicm issue!
"The BIBLE" Greatest Book Ever Written.
Last Days Prophesy!
Babylon The Great (America) Is Falling.
PSALM 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking LIES.
All Praises To The Most High and his Son.
My question is how did one class gain so much wealth?
I highly respect and admire the way the speaker “Khaya Dlanga” handled all situations which were ‘potentially offensive’ with a smile throughout the whole show. That’s the best way to carry out a constructive discussion, having a non-emotional mindset.💯
Django ? Unchained.....Jamie Foxx..
Especially the 6 cows for Sunette’s daughter which he sarcastically corrected as 50 cows 43:58
Whether the white man is in the minority or the majority, he rules
-Miriam Makeba
True unfortunately
That happens because the black man will always be too nice.
Once China takes over through trade, things will be better...lol.
@@gdaebb9179 compromising and succumbing
I remember I was a school kid and I used to love watching this show on SABC 2. Lol... it's funny I had already decided my career as a kid and didn't even realize.
Wow, this was posted 8 years ago and it still resonates in western countries around the world!!!!
Lebo......you are talking for a people, not for a race. You go girl!!!! We need more influential women and men like you.
28:28 Literally every single sentence she says is a lie before she gets corrected.
Disappointing watching this in 2023 I think we need something like this in Nigeria
Do you have racism there?
A plaster on a gunshot wound, what an apt analogy 👏
Great conversation, we need a show like this in America...
There is Race to Dinner
@@befitforlifegetone8114 looking forward to watching it
You late it was called the “Phil danahou “ show .. do your research
There is so much anger and hate in south Africa!
All this is due to racial segregation that lasted 400 years...
@Corey Jones
... but it might be. Collectively they are horrible and the white supremacist systems and institutions they put in place is horrible. I have no love in my heart for their white supremacy. You can talk about individuals and lots of groups of good people, but that is not what is being talked about here.
@aboutthetruthmedia organization I just stated a fact
The whole diaspora my guy.. SA has always been the melting pot
Waouw!!!!!
What a debate!!!
Im stunned!!!
I understand now...why my guy from Cape Town...told me that South Africa still has a long way 2 go...when it comes to race relations...
As a Brasileiro🇧🇷 myself...I can say that we have our fair share of racism in Brasil...but not as harsh as what SA is still facing!!!
I mean I still can't believe what "The Burg White man" said...on stage...unreal...
Anyway praying that the situation will get better...
Brasil has horrible racism so stop pretending.
I love this law lecture, he's so honest.
Truth!!!
Sisonke Msimang makes a lot of sense and I think the proposal by made in her summing up about an appointed watchman in every institution tasked with the business of thinking through issues of racism and attending to it on a daily basis, makes a great deal of sense and I think it would be well worth pursuing.
Power only respects power period. You always forgive and reconcile when you don't have power. You get social justice when you have power
So true and wise, exactly what I feel.
So get social justice through power and then forgive?
this is the mindset of a bully. and that's exactly what you are
Facts
Am from Kenya and i really do not know how i got here.... anyway, am here. I did not know South Africa was this divide. I really hope that such effort to bring reconciliation will bring exactly that.
Africans in SA are entering this conversation from a place of weakness. A place of begging. That is not going to work with the boers and other caucazoids. SA is an African country on the African continent. I never agree with Desmond on any of his utterances. But he is correct in saying that the caucazoids should be thankful for being allowed to go about their business in a peaceful manner. What I'm hearing is Africans still wanting to embrace the caucazoids and his values ala the red dress feminist. SA is not the USA. SA belongs to the Africans. Take pride in yourself SA. Go and resurrect Steve Biko.
Caucasoids arenot thatbad, after all you can't blame boers from something the anglos done to South Africa.
The arrogance in the white woman in her white suits is eyes is shining like a torch .
In 2019 in Africa, A debate is in the coloniser's language in Africa?
Tell me about it
Colonizers you say. Shame you sounding a bit EFF there
@Stephen Dave such colonial mentality.What luck do i get from having English as a primary language?
That's such an ignorant statement
The guy who spoke at 45:57 said it as it is. It is these old folks who hold on to memories of the past and try to instill them into this young generation. Otherwise us young folks we don’t see color instead we are curious and eager to learn each other’s cultures. Hence you see even interracial marriages nowadays
The first thing a country needs is a fair and strong justice system. Then it needs laws that reduce mass inequality. The inequality that places like the US or Europe experiences is small in comparison to South Africa.
The USA has a minority Black population which was oppressed, in SA the majority were oppressed.
Now both countries have a black population which isn't oppressed, but is still poor, violent and uneducated. What does that tell you?@@RSVPrr
The woman in the bleu dress is telling what the rest wouldn't see . Very intelligent.
Peggy De Weerdt very well said!! Bigs up! Watching in 2020, nothing seems to have changed !! I also feel the pain !!
@@julieraenemalidde5371
Why did they clap?
"We have to want a better society more than we want to be right". So very true. We need to get beyond racism and just see ourselves as a society. Attack the issues not each other. Otherwise these issues will progress in the same way they did in the past. They might present themselves differently but they are the very same issues. As they say History repeats itself.
When you are defensive you would feel like you are being attacked because you don’t wanna change . You want things to be in your terms as perpetrators. You still Bhagwan to negotiate with us like you did with our land . You want to control our healing, thinking , trauma you wanna control everything and try to minimize our pain like it didnt happen, it’s history.,who do you think you are?
@BK , keep thinking you gave Africans anything. The day will come when any and every last one of you evil things will answers for that even the dead one.
@@yahudaputy875 , @BK is the problem. He is not the solution! Keep speaking truth to power.
@BK Sounds about white.
@BK Well, whether you believe it's history or allegory, so did Lucifer, and look how that turned out for him. But you asked for it.
We need to have this debate done again
This colored person told the bold faced truth : mixed race people thus colored people are not only left out of this debate here but have been left behind by post-apartheid society.
Absolutely right.
If you look at the USA "coloureds"are blacks or mixed between black and white.They are black period.The whites don't even view them as part white as they came they view them as black.If you have any shade of blackness whites view you as black.Kudos to the Indian lady for coming to terms with her blackness
They are not left behind, they isolate themselves, and still believe they are different, that was apartheid classification. Yes they can maintain and retain cultural norms and practices.
@@alivebygrace3820 They are different. Always were. No subsaharan African ethnic group recognizes biracial and mixed race people as simply African / ethnic anywhere in the continent. They always considered mixed race . Africans know their own and mixed race people are not their own.
@@MultiSmartass1 tell me if the apartheid classification in them days had no colored classification and have it as black would we still have a coloured term today?
@@alivebygrace3820 The term is unimportant. Remove it and you still have mixed race people. The reality is what counts.
Don't wait for people to acknowledge they are wrong, just believe in the power you're born with and move on.
13:00 we are a social construct in this country
The question is "Has the Rainbow Nation project failed in South Africa?" The answer is in the political ideology of South Africa's (and most of Africa's) leadership and in the way the races think. I am a black Zimbabwean and the race debate has raged on in this country too and for too long. This is why... There are two different thought processes in people in general and I'm talking of people from both the main race groups, black and white. Both groups have people who on one side feel helpless to achieve what they aspire to in their lives on their own, as individuals, and need Government to intervene with some form of assistance, and both groups have people who think that they can better their lives through their own enterprise and believe Government actually intervenes too much and is actually mainly a hindrance to their progress in life. In Zimbabwe I can genuinely say most of our people (both black and white) are of the latter group, whereas, from what I've experienced with South Africa, it is the white population that seems to want a Government of a hands-off approach and the black population wanting one that assists them more. In Zimbabwe calls for racism largely and funnily come from the ruling elite and their supporters. There are plausible reasons why it is this way in SA, that it is the blacks who call for Government intervention, and it includes the deeper gravity of the segregation system of that country before Independence compared to Rhodesia's. Herein comes leadership - both South Africa and Zimbabwe, at independence, found themselves with leadership whose political ideology indulges more with the group that needs its intervention as these leaders had painted racism as THE issue which caused the majority of problems for the majority of the people before Independence. Racism WAS the issue! The black leaders of both countries have been in power now 40 years in Zimbabwe and almost 3 decades in South Africa and both countries are falling apart. Could it still be because of racism? A big, fat NO!!! Not among the peoples anyway. If anyone is really racist in these two nations today, it is the Governments of both countries. If we invite the Government to always jump in to sort out our problems as a people we will soon decay into basket cases, because the Government will happily oblige and grow larger and larger until it suffocates us all, especially these Governments with obsolete Marxist traits they inherited from socialist Soviet Union and communist China as they "helped" liberate Africa. The solution to this perceived racism is that people must stop whinging and 100 percent take care of their individual selves FIRST!!! We must stop being babies because someone white called me a darky (well, I AM dark skinned) or be hurt if another calls you a keffir (sp) when you know you believe in God. If there is still systematic racism that benefits the whites today then the present Governments have lied to us and must be voted out! Both Governments must free up the markets enough so that that lady whose kid is going to a school where all teachers are white doesn't face ridiculous red-taped hurdles to open up her own school in which she can have all black teachers, if she wishes; so that that black guy can be able to build or buy his own block of flats where he can rent them out to everyone else excluding the Afrikaans speakers, if he wishes. Let every individual be taught that they must take responsibility of their own lives. When you do that you are well on your way to prosperity and believe me, being prosperous of mind (having a mindset of abundance) gets you in an area where no outside forces (including ever intrusive Governments) can stop you from achieving your goals. These are greater values to teach the next generation than to give them false hopes that they will eventually inherit Oppehiemer's mines or Van Tonder"s farm The world is toooooooo full of goodness for anyone who is willing to go after it. You will not blame anyone or any system for your failures, but yourself. And you wouldn't blame history either. So, to summarize - South Africa's race problem is really a mindset problem. The whites want to just get on with their lives as best as they can without too much Govt interference and the blacks by and large want Govt to sort out their problems for them, and the Government's political ideology already encourages it to plough deeper into the peoples lives, which leads to disaster, welcome to Africa! If my poet sister is sincere that she really needs to hear how the whites agonize over past atrocities they committed then she must also be genuinely grateful that they did vote in the referendum to allow for democracy. Is she willing to go back in history to cry over injustices her own ancestors perpetrated? It is not practical The lesson we should learn from Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa is that when it seems you're on the greener side of the fence and someone on the dry side is saying they are being hurt by people on your side, listen to them and stand up for them because keeping quiet or even supporting your people can leave you with too many regrettable problems to deal with in the future, just as true as supporting and benefiting from the corruption of these two Governments today without hearing the cries of those outside the system will. Although the Rhodesia and the apartheid South Africa Governments ruled over free market economies, developing their nations faster than the rest of Africa, they excluded the blacks from participation.That was racist! True capitalism demands that everyone be included and the whole nation will prosper. As a result dissent arose, and look where both countries are now!
The conversation is not long enough to have an impact, but it is a start. I would love more.
Eyes are still glued, mouth is sewed together ears are plugged may God please have mercy
Help us all .
What is the difference between Black/Koi?/Colored/etc.....
It's like they have a different racial group for every shade.
@Travis Decker. Not much has changed with the 'white' man's coward policy to divide and rule. He does not understand civility and living in harmony with others. It's no wonder many call him the devil.
For real !?!!!!
That's like saying "what's the difference between an Italian and a Russian or what's the difference between an Chinese and a Indonesian"
Khoi were the original inhabitants of Southern Africa that diverged from the rest of humanity tens of thousands of years ago. Blacks are Bantu peoples who arrived a few thousand years ago. Coloreds are a mix of Khoi, Bantu and Whites that spawned hundreds of years ago.
Khoi khoi is an indigenous tribe like other black tribes, black is a race not a tribe, coloured is a lost group who has no identity I mean they dont no if they r black or black or pink according their race,,
Ei you lying the first tribe in S. A was a Xam! Ka followed by Sans then the khoi khois after khoi khois the nguniz n others followed after
South Africa has the same problems like USA 🇺🇸.
The United States is fucked.
like the rest of the world*
What!! Its not even compare abil
Yeah it's a mini American
@@georg706 you obviously have no concept of how the world is. The black problem ib the us is not worst in America. Fuckin arrogant Fuck
The Law Lecturer is on point, give that guy some Bells...
Racism can’t be eradicated whilst properties of human relationship archive no devotion.
"I'm not here as an indian, I'm here as a black woman."✊✊✊✊
Iconic or what
Virtue signalling at its best
sorry but she's still an Indian
@@yungkingshaka1227 still an indian but all POCS are treated the same
Delusional. She doesn't have the black experience, she's clearly an indian.
As a proud African and obviously black man, I am shocked at the level of division seen during this panel. To see clear black people who claim to be colored and believe to be a different race, I never thought I could see this somewhere, let alone in the country of Madiba. Clearly, I was mistaken. But I am glad I came across this Video because I am educating myself. Thumbs up for the debate over all because that is the way people could feel the pain of others.
Colours mean Biracial.
@@RoderickSpode no such thing. Why does it mean biracial to others and Khoi and San to some. It's an identity crisis
Samuel Bimbo they internalized labels created by the Apathied government
Sir you must be consider that the the socalled white south arfikan has socially institutionalized the population into a caste system whereby the African at the bottom. And the end of apartheid is ended only on paper . You got indians and blacks calling themself colored. Now that is sick.
@@RSVPrr Khoi 7 San not called coloured tough.
I loved the moment they spoke native languages... whewww I LOVE IT 🥰
Watching this in 2024. This debate just proves there's no feasible way of dealing with racism in a country colonised, along with still having these people present in the country.
Thank you for this debate.
I don't live in South Africa, however, I find these debates so educative, especially for an Eastern European as I am, who speaks quite well 4 languages( Romanian(native), Russian, French, and a little bit English), but who doesn't know very well the reality in Africa.
I do agree with the fact that the Colonial Era has done terrible things to Africans and not only with them. Those were terrible times in your country as it were in mine during the Ottoman Empire or URSS. That is the History, unfortunately. We can change our future.
However, I pray for your country. I do believe that segregation on racial issues can lead to horrible things like Haulocast as it happened with Jews(and to other people such as Slavs, gipsies, Chinese during the Second World War).
So please, try to find solutions for all the people in your country and live in peace.
My name is Anna and I am just me, not white, not black, not coloured. So you should feel the same and be proud of that as well.
I understand and I appreciate u but the European settlers in SA forget this is Africa and they will never be African
Yeah. Skin color isn't meant to be a means for segregation
@@ichoosegodfromnowon847 I hope that someone will welcome blacks comunity in Europe the same as you welcome whites comunity in SA .
A very insightful debate after all, however, it is sad to note that an expressive element like "Colour" is now used to sow seeds of discord in the lives of men by human beings. That shows how narrow minded people can be.
Social injustice and economic inequality syndrome was brought to limelight in the 17th century, the intention was to adopt it as white propaganda to kill, steal, destroy and dominate. Of course, it was successfully operated for over 400 years in various regions in Africa and the dividends are visible in the so called " Civilized Nations ".
Africans are yet to recover from the embarrassment they received from the strangers they gave much love.
Now the narrative or the paradigm is beginning to shift......like " Climate Change" and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about that, because there is time and season for every thing under the sky.
The natural law, the law of karma, and Divine law are together in this course.........treat others the way you would have them treat you.
No nation can live in peace and harmony until there is equal right, love, tolerance and justice!
And in every action, there is always a reaction.
@@razvan955 yes true but all Caucasians benefited