Fender factory probably didn't use that Mustang bridge, which is 7 1/4" radius, but the neck radius is 9 1/2" radius, which is over 2" more, a significant difference. My 2020 Vintera Jazzmaster has a 7 1/4" radius fretboard, so the Mustang saddles work on that model.
Don't spend your time or money there again. Learn to do set ups from watching videos. Then if you have a problem you can't remedy yourself you'll be able to communicate better with the guitar shop and if you are being taken advantage of...
I have the same guitar. Troy Van Leeuwen Jazzmaster in that same Copper Aged color. From the shop, I bought it brand new and I kid you not, it's terribly crafted coming from a major brand. It's not cheap either so it's kind of like a bummer. I needed to send it to a luthier to improve most of the discrepancies. Such a hassle.
Can I ask, do you charge the customer for a normal setup in this situation or did you charge hourly for the extra work? Just curious how that stuff works on your end since you did much more than what I'd consider a normal setup to be
As someone who goes to university for business management, I do not currently possess enough expertise in really any subject to help you with your questions
I had to loosen the intonation screws, then simply lifted the saddles up, and used tweezers to slide some shim material underneath. In this case I used some mahogany wood veneer and mylar film stacked together, but in a perfect world, metal shims would be best. You could probably put together your own using metal shim stock that they use for Floyd Rose nuts, or you could just buy some thin brass or aluminum. Only the Low E and High E saddles needed to be shimmed because they were too low. The technical explanation is the bridge is the wrong radius -- the saddles are not adjustable, and the bridge is set for a 7.25" radius fingerboard, while the fingerboard is 9.5". The simpler explanation: Just measure the action individually at each string. That way, knowing the radius doesn't even matter. Generally, I get the GBE strings to the same height, and the EAD strings set so the Low E is highest, A a little lower, and D a little lower, but the D is a little higher than the GBE. By measuring individual string action, it's very quick and easy to identify problems. GBE should be about the same height -- so if you see that the G and B are about the same, but the high E is much lower, you've got to raise the high E. And same for the Low E. I know it should be higher than the A, but in this case, it was *lower* than the A.
In this case, it wasn't neck angle, but the wrong bridge radius. The outer E strings were disproportionately lower compared to the rest of the strings, which will happen if a 7.25" bridge is used on a 9.5" fingerboard. Anytime the bridge radius is smaller than the fingerboard radius, this will happen. I always check the action on each individual string for this reason -- knowing the radius is OK but what really matters is the individual string heights at the 12th or 17th frets. I find I actually prefer the same action on the GBE strings, then D a little higher, A a little higher than D, and Low E the highest. On my own guitar I set GBE to .030" at the 12th, then around .034" on the D, .040" on A and .046" on E. I knew something was up when the E strings were so low...not good! Also good idea on the bridge pickup. Important to have a collection of screws and spacers for that reason, good call.
Do you allow the bridge to rock or do you tell the customer to never use the trem and push the bridge back towards the trem and tell the customer to make sure it stays that way or the guitar police will come take you away?
They're hugely underrated. Cheap guitars are usually my favorite to work on and the sky's the limit. My main preference is Mighty Mite necks or other aftermarket necks and an aftermarket body, then customizing everything from there. Save a ton of money and if you know what you're doing they can and will out play and out-tone guitars worth thousands more.
And on the 6th day the heavens opened up and god spoke, "let there be the mastery bridge" and it was done. The earth shook from jazzmaster and jaguar players everywhere, together, playing in unison, the chord of the gods. And it was in tune. And the guitars were set up perfectly. And it was good. On the 7th day, god rested. And the angels at the factory accidently used three bolts to connect the guitar necks instead of four.
I think it is! I forgot to ask the guy but now that I think about it, I think he did mention this. However, I'm pretty sure I saw "Made in Mexico" on the headstock, so on second thought...maybe not. It might explain the mismatch of the bridge too. Perhaps on the official models they're more meticulous and have appropriately matched the bridge radius with the fingerboard.
@@guitar_mdI wouldn’t say so much as the bridge is “mismatched”, I’m pretty sure TVL Jazzmasters have a Mustang style bridge rather than the traditional Jazzmaster bridge. I forget exactly why Troy included it in his signature model (I think it’s because it was a more stable bridge, especially for stuff that’s in C standard like a bunch of the earlier QOTSA songs) but regardless, it’s not mismatched. Definitely cool, but not mismatched at all
@patrickcurran4879 I mean mismatched strictly in the sense of radius. The Low E and High E strings are way too low because the radius on the bridge saddles doesn't match the radius of the fingerboard. The bridge saddles are too small of a radius for the fingerboard to get a proper setup. For a bridge with non adjustable saddles like this one, it's a mismatch on those terms. The outer E strings need to be shimmed to get them where they need to be. An easy fix, but I'm not sure what the thought process was here. I can't imagine any advantage to having a mismatch between the fingerboard radius and bridge saddle radius. This is the Mexican model though, I'm not sure if they make an American model but maybe that one matches the radius between the two
Just used tweezers to put some shims under them. Lift the saddle up, place the shim material underneath, put the saddle back down -- and done. The tweezers are just a helping hand, also, certainly not required, and you can just place it by hand with no issues. Cutting the shims to the proper size takes a lot longer than placing them. In this case I used some wood veneer and mylar film as that's all i had on hand at the time. I did not notice any effect on tone whatsoever. But if you want to be a purist, a metal shim like brass or aluminum would be optimal, similar to the metal shims they make for Floyd Rose Locking nuts.
@@lucaserojas No, not on this guitar. You can use double stick tape if necessary to hold them in place, but on this guitar the saddles are actually extremely firm against the top. They don't move around even when there's no string tension on them at all. For most saddles that will move around freely without string tension, some kind of adhesive will help, usually thin double stick tape under the shim.
Absolutely! Unorthodox but it works. Similar to how locking nuts on Floyds can't have their slots filed or filled like a traditional nut -- so you gotta use shims (or file the nut channel down). I used wood veneer here but metal would probably be ideal. I don't think it makes a tremendous difference but brass or aluminum shim stock would probably be ideal if you're obsessed about tone. Veneer or mylar film are pretty soft materials and will absorb a lot more vibration than metal will
Absolutely, but only because these saddles were naturally very solid and firmly in place even with no string tension. I thought of using double stick tape underneath, which you can do, but didn't think it was necessary. That would work however, and would be easily reversible. If these saddles weren't so solid and tightly in place, I would have used double stick tape. Metal shims like brass or aluminum would probably be better for tone as well but I couldn't hear any difference with the material I used.
RUclips shorts have a 59 second limit. This was not about rounding the nut corners or setting the intonation or a complete setup from beginning to end. It was about the improper radius at the bridge and how to correct it when you don't have any height adjustment.
@@guitar_md I didn't ask you to show either of those things, you stated that you had worked on the nut & the bridge, & neither was worked on correctly.
@BaroqueBlues I would love to know how they weren't done correctly. Please explain to me how you would change the radius on the saddles of a bridge with non-adjustable saddles. There are only two ways. And rounding the edges of the nut has nothing to do with getting the slots to the proper depth. There are also only two ways to adjust the height of the strings at the nut. Please enlighten all of us about what the correct way to do this would have been.
The saddles weren't in the correct pattern that they should be, the low E string was set further back than it should, & the G & D were in the same spot. The nut the corners of it were super sharp & jagged. Also, literally every single vintage jazzmaster, Jaguar, mustang I've ever seen with those type saddles, you have to put shims under the outer 2 strings, it's something every repair person knows & most vintage ones have pieces of fender medium guitar picks under them.
@@BaroqueBlues I hadn't set the intonation yet and this video was not about intonation. I also didn't show rounding the edges of the nut because that's not what this video is about. Straw man. You just confirmed that I did this repair correctly in this video. But are accusing me of doing it incorrectly by listing things that this video was not about. That is the definition of a straw man. I rounded the edges of the nut as I always do and I set the intonation like I always do, after doing this. The reason that wasn't shown here is because this video was about the need to shim the outermost saddles. Maybe it's something every repair person knows but laypeople don't know that and they're not going to understand why their guitar isn't playing well.
Because the saddles aren't adjustable. The bridge saddles are the wrong radius, 7.25" when they should be 9.5" -- so the wrong bridge was installed at the factory Adjustable saddles are a totally different story, like a Strat or Tele. One reason I prefer those heavily, makes everything way easier
I don't know if he did anything right without playing the guitar, which he never does. Because someone makes a video, they are an expert. When the original guy bought the guitar, how did it play? Did it need a setup? Why buy a guitar that doesn't play great. Not good or acceptable.
Playing it in a video will not show anything. But on my main channel I have many setups with full demonstrations. I've been doing guitar work for almost 20 years and have tons of videos demonstrating my areas of expertise if you're questioning my credibility. Why won't playing it show anything? Because setups are all 100% explainable with measurements. Playing it will not tell you the specs. I didn't give exact measurements as RUclips Shorts have a 1 minute time limit. In my full videos I go into great detail. Almost no guitars play great off the shelf. And if you think they do I can show with specific measurements how they could improve. It's extremely rare to see a guitar for example with .035" treble and .050" bass side action at the 12th fret, .000" to .002" of relief, and .018" bass / .010" treble side action at the 1st fret. It does happen rarely. But it certainly is not the norm. The guy I learned from has been doing guitar work full time since 1968 and has done tens of thousands of repairs -- we've had many discussions and have seen thousands of guitars. And they almost always will benefit from a setup. That, and some more advanced things like a new nut. The string spacing at the nut is absolutely critical and I've seen many custom shop and even vintage Fenders that totally drop the ball on this. Many, many examples from guitars of all kinds of values. I do agree though about buying guitars that play well. I tried pitching this idea to Guitar Center but they weren't interested. My thought is like a used car lot. Who would want a car with issues? You take it on a test drive and the steering wheel can't turn left. Who would buy that? But many guitars on the shelf are set up like crap....and not given a fair chance to show how they really play. Most of the time there's way too much relief and the nut slots are cut way too high. Those alone will totally ruin how a guitar feels, and there's a lot more that can go wrong too. Like poor nut slot spacing, for one.
Using a 7.25” bridge with a 9.5 or even 12 inch radius fretboard. Half the times, vendors don’t even list the radius when selling mustang bridges.
50s bridge contor,verses modern fretboard contor
This is what happens to that geometry after you shim the neck
A unique guitar like that deserves some good attention like that. Well done!
Thank you so much!
always blame the fender factory.
I smashed a strat. Fender didn't even give me a brand new replacement for free! It's all their fault!
In is incredible the complexity and subtility of an electric guitar setup and also the importance of a luthier's job.
Fender factory probably didn't use that Mustang bridge, which is 7 1/4" radius, but the neck radius is 9 1/2" radius, which is over 2" more, a significant difference. My 2020 Vintera Jazzmaster has a 7 1/4" radius fretboard, so the Mustang saddles work on that model.
Beautiful Guitar. I want one!
I took my guitar to get setup and the guy just eyeballed it said it was fine. What a bastard, I guess he didn’t want to work on my cheap guitar :(
Don't spend your time or money there again. Learn to do set ups from watching videos. Then if you have a problem you can't remedy yourself you'll be able to communicate better with the guitar shop and if you are being taken advantage of...
How come no Jazz players (masters) play the Jazzmaster
That's the best question I've heard all year!
I have the same guitar. Troy Van Leeuwen Jazzmaster in that same Copper Aged color. From the shop, I bought it brand new and I kid you not, it's terribly crafted coming from a major brand. It's not cheap either so it's kind of like a bummer. I needed to send it to a luthier to improve most of the discrepancies. Such a hassle.
That’s a clean machine right there.
Pretty guitar❤
Can I ask, do you charge the customer for a normal setup in this situation or did you charge hourly for the extra work? Just curious how that stuff works on your end since you did much more than what I'd consider a normal setup to be
As someone who goes to university for business management, I do not currently possess enough expertise in really any subject to help you with your questions
I want that!!
Great fix.
Thank you!
Where can I send my H575 for your expertise?
What a nice thing❤
How did you shim the saddles? Why was it only the low and high E that needed shimming and not any of the other saddles?
I had to loosen the intonation screws, then simply lifted the saddles up, and used tweezers to slide some shim material underneath. In this case I used some mahogany wood veneer and mylar film stacked together, but in a perfect world, metal shims would be best.
You could probably put together your own using metal shim stock that they use for Floyd Rose nuts, or you could just buy some thin brass or aluminum.
Only the Low E and High E saddles needed to be shimmed because they were too low.
The technical explanation is the bridge is the wrong radius -- the saddles are not adjustable, and the bridge is set for a 7.25" radius fingerboard, while the fingerboard is 9.5".
The simpler explanation: Just measure the action individually at each string. That way, knowing the radius doesn't even matter. Generally, I get the GBE strings to the same height, and the EAD strings set so the Low E is highest, A a little lower, and D a little lower, but the D is a little higher than the GBE.
By measuring individual string action, it's very quick and easy to identify problems. GBE should be about the same height -- so if you see that the G and B are about the same, but the high E is much lower, you've got to raise the high E.
And same for the Low E. I know it should be higher than the A, but in this case, it was *lower* than the A.
i want this guitar
This is what happens if the neck angle is changed. I also make little spacers for the bridge pickup because the screws end up being too short.
In this case, it wasn't neck angle, but the wrong bridge radius. The outer E strings were disproportionately lower compared to the rest of the strings, which will happen if a 7.25" bridge is used on a 9.5" fingerboard.
Anytime the bridge radius is smaller than the fingerboard radius, this will happen. I always check the action on each individual string for this reason -- knowing the radius is OK but what really matters is the individual string heights at the 12th or 17th frets.
I find I actually prefer the same action on the GBE strings, then D a little higher, A a little higher than D, and Low E the highest. On my own guitar I set GBE to .030" at the 12th, then around .034" on the D, .040" on A and .046" on E.
I knew something was up when the E strings were so low...not good!
Also good idea on the bridge pickup. Important to have a collection of screws and spacers for that reason, good call.
Where is your shop? Can i bring my guitar to you
You can email me at guitarmdofficial@gmail.com
Just for privacy to keep my details hidden, would rather not say in public. Thanks!
that’s the fender troy van leuwing signature jassmaster
*Van Leeuwen
Do you allow the bridge to rock or do you tell the customer to never use the trem and push the bridge back towards the trem and tell the customer to make sure it stays that way or the guitar police will come take you away?
the guitar police took me away and I was unable to respond.
But yes!
I have a Jaguar bass. Why is it humming now?
Never had a problem with a squire
They're hugely underrated. Cheap guitars are usually my favorite to work on and the sky's the limit.
My main preference is Mighty Mite necks or other aftermarket necks and an aftermarket body, then customizing everything from there. Save a ton of money and if you know what you're doing they can and will out play and out-tone guitars worth thousands more.
And on the 6th day the heavens opened up and god spoke, "let there be the mastery bridge" and it was done. The earth shook from jazzmaster and jaguar players everywhere, together, playing in unison, the chord of the gods. And it was in tune. And the guitars were set up perfectly. And it was good.
On the 7th day, god rested. And the angels at the factory accidently used three bolts to connect the guitar necks instead of four.
She sure is a beauty.
I was looking at this exact guitar today! Is that the Troy Van Leeuwen signature?
I think it is! I forgot to ask the guy but now that I think about it, I think he did mention this. However, I'm pretty sure I saw "Made in Mexico" on the headstock, so on second thought...maybe not.
It might explain the mismatch of the bridge too. Perhaps on the official models they're more meticulous and have appropriately matched the bridge radius with the fingerboard.
@@guitar_mdI wouldn’t say so much as the bridge is “mismatched”, I’m pretty sure TVL Jazzmasters have a Mustang style bridge rather than the traditional Jazzmaster bridge. I forget exactly why Troy included it in his signature model (I think it’s because it was a more stable bridge, especially for stuff that’s in C standard like a bunch of the earlier QOTSA songs) but regardless, it’s not mismatched. Definitely cool, but not mismatched at all
@patrickcurran4879 I mean mismatched strictly in the sense of radius. The Low E and High E strings are way too low because the radius on the bridge saddles doesn't match the radius of the fingerboard. The bridge saddles are too small of a radius for the fingerboard to get a proper setup.
For a bridge with non adjustable saddles like this one, it's a mismatch on those terms. The outer E strings need to be shimmed to get them where they need to be. An easy fix, but I'm not sure what the thought process was here.
I can't imagine any advantage to having a mismatch between the fingerboard radius and bridge saddle radius. This is the Mexican model though, I'm not sure if they make an American model but maybe that one matches the radius between the two
I need to find a proper guitar Tech because long & McQuad music is slacking lately
How did you shim the bridge saddles?
Just used tweezers to put some shims under them. Lift the saddle up, place the shim material underneath, put the saddle back down -- and done. The tweezers are just a helping hand, also, certainly not required, and you can just place it by hand with no issues. Cutting the shims to the proper size takes a lot longer than placing them.
In this case I used some wood veneer and mylar film as that's all i had on hand at the time. I did not notice any effect on tone whatsoever. But if you want to be a purist, a metal shim like brass or aluminum would be optimal, similar to the metal shims they make for Floyd Rose Locking nuts.
@@guitar_md dont they slide around with the shims on?
@@lucaserojas No, not on this guitar. You can use double stick tape if necessary to hold them in place, but on this guitar the saddles are actually extremely firm against the top. They don't move around even when there's no string tension on them at all.
For most saddles that will move around freely without string tension, some kind of adhesive will help, usually thin double stick tape under the shim.
Hol up you can shim the saddles? Holy shit this might help fix up my jazzmaster
Absolutely! Unorthodox but it works. Similar to how locking nuts on Floyds can't have their slots filed or filled like a traditional nut -- so you gotta use shims (or file the nut channel down).
I used wood veneer here but metal would probably be ideal. I don't think it makes a tremendous difference but brass or aluminum shim stock would probably be ideal if you're obsessed about tone. Veneer or mylar film are pretty soft materials and will absorb a lot more vibration than metal will
will the shims hold?
Absolutely, but only because these saddles were naturally very solid and firmly in place even with no string tension. I thought of using double stick tape underneath, which you can do, but didn't think it was necessary.
That would work however, and would be easily reversible. If these saddles weren't so solid and tightly in place, I would have used double stick tape. Metal shims like brass or aluminum would probably be better for tone as well but I couldn't hear any difference with the material I used.
Nece explanation!
Quick money lol
He left the corners of the nut super sharp & the saddles were out of intonation.
RUclips shorts have a 59 second limit. This was not about rounding the nut corners or setting the intonation or a complete setup from beginning to end.
It was about the improper radius at the bridge and how to correct it when you don't have any height adjustment.
@@guitar_md I didn't ask you to show either of those things, you stated that you had worked on the nut & the bridge, & neither was worked on correctly.
@BaroqueBlues I would love to know how they weren't done correctly. Please explain to me how you would change the radius on the saddles of a bridge with non-adjustable saddles. There are only two ways.
And rounding the edges of the nut has nothing to do with getting the slots to the proper depth. There are also only two ways to adjust the height of the strings at the nut.
Please enlighten all of us about what the correct way to do this would have been.
The saddles weren't in the correct pattern that they should be, the low E string was set further back than it should, & the G & D were in the same spot. The nut the corners of it were super sharp & jagged.
Also, literally every single vintage jazzmaster, Jaguar, mustang I've ever seen with those type saddles, you have to put shims under the outer 2 strings, it's something every repair person knows & most vintage ones have pieces of fender medium guitar picks under them.
@@BaroqueBlues I hadn't set the intonation yet and this video was not about intonation. I also didn't show rounding the edges of the nut because that's not what this video is about.
Straw man. You just confirmed that I did this repair correctly in this video. But are accusing me of doing it incorrectly by listing things that this video was not about. That is the definition of a straw man.
I rounded the edges of the nut as I always do and I set the intonation like I always do, after doing this. The reason that wasn't shown here is because this video was about the need to shim the outermost saddles.
Maybe it's something every repair person knows but laypeople don't know that and they're not going to understand why their guitar isn't playing well.
Ah, the mexican TVL JM that costs more than $1200
Why would you blame the fender factory if somebody already set it up before you
Because the saddles aren't adjustable. The bridge saddles are the wrong radius, 7.25" when they should be 9.5" -- so the wrong bridge was installed at the factory
Adjustable saddles are a totally different story, like a Strat or Tele. One reason I prefer those heavily, makes everything way easier
@@guitar_md got it. I just jumped the gun before you said it. Sorry 🙏👍😜
@@chucklasher6061 No need for apology, perfectly reasonable question!
I don't know if he did anything right without playing the guitar, which he never does. Because someone makes a video, they are an expert. When the original guy bought the guitar, how did it play? Did it need a setup? Why buy a guitar that doesn't play great. Not good or acceptable.
Playing it in a video will not show anything. But on my main channel I have many setups with full demonstrations. I've been doing guitar work for almost 20 years and have tons of videos demonstrating my areas of expertise if you're questioning my credibility.
Why won't playing it show anything? Because setups are all 100% explainable with measurements. Playing it will not tell you the specs. I didn't give exact measurements as RUclips Shorts have a 1 minute time limit. In my full videos I go into great detail.
Almost no guitars play great off the shelf. And if you think they do I can show with specific measurements how they could improve. It's extremely rare to see a guitar for example with .035" treble and .050" bass side action at the 12th fret, .000" to .002" of relief, and .018" bass / .010" treble side action at the 1st fret.
It does happen rarely. But it certainly is not the norm. The guy I learned from has been doing guitar work full time since 1968 and has done tens of thousands of repairs -- we've had many discussions and have seen thousands of guitars. And they almost always will benefit from a setup.
That, and some more advanced things like a new nut. The string spacing at the nut is absolutely critical and I've seen many custom shop and even vintage Fenders that totally drop the ball on this.
Many, many examples from guitars of all kinds of values.
I do agree though about buying guitars that play well. I tried pitching this idea to Guitar Center but they weren't interested. My thought is like a used car lot. Who would want a car with issues? You take it on a test drive and the steering wheel can't turn left. Who would buy that?
But many guitars on the shelf are set up like crap....and not given a fair chance to show how they really play. Most of the time there's way too much relief and the nut slots are cut way too high. Those alone will totally ruin how a guitar feels, and there's a lot more that can go wrong too. Like poor nut slot spacing, for one.
Avoid all that, get a P.R.S.