Marciano vs. Ali: Joe Louis' Prediction
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- Joe Louis predicts Rocky Marciano vs. Muhammad Ali.
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Joe Louis fought the man, he knew first hand how powerful and relentless Marciano was.
Yea but Louis fought Rocky way after his prime when he owed tax money. I think that loss made him remember Rocky better than he was. In all seriousness a prime Ali probably easily beats Rocky.
John Durant author of The Heavyweight Champions wrote in 1971 (pg 123,) “Critics do not rate Rocky with the great ones, like Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, and Louis. He never faced topnotch fighters like they did. It was not Rocky’s fault, of course, that there was not much talent when he was fighting.”
Louis did not pick Terrell to win he said he thought he had a chance .A lot of top fighters have a chance of winning and often cause upsets .Like Norton vs Ali .
To put the "Weight" issue into better perspective, BoxRec has officially listed these Marciano opponents as middleweights and light heavyweights:
Eddie Ross - division "Middleweight"
Harry Bilazarian - division "Middleweight"
Ezzard Charles - division "Light heavy"
Archie Moore - division "Light heavy"
Harry Matthews - division "Light heavy"
Harry Haft - division "Light heavy"
Ted Lowry - division "Light heavy"
Willis Applegate - division "Light heavy"
Bob Jefferson - division "Light heavy"
Because of little Rocky's so called "tiny-Heavyweight" era is 'Exactly' why the 'Cruiserweight' division was created during the late 70s. There comes a point the size disparity becomes a bridge too far even for very good smaller boxers. Did the Klitschko brothers have the luxury of fightin middleweights and light heavyweights? "NOPE"
Heck, even a new Bridgerweight (200 to 224lbs) division has recently been added because too many 210 lb heavyweights complained. "SIZE MATTERS" like it or not.
For everyone out there blaming today's size increase on PEDs just remember that PEDs would not have helped Rocky's extraordinarily short flyweight arms grow longer. PEDs will not automatically make someone 6' 9" with an 85" albatross reach. Also if little 185 lb Rocky was so powerful why didn't he ever break any bones? He never broke one single rib, nose, eye-socket, jaw, etc.
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."
It's no wonder Vingo said, ""I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD"" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin
"ROCKY MARCIANO REASONS FOR RETIREMENT---@THE ROCKY MARCIANO ARCHIVES" ...Everything about why he retired in his own words. Bad back, nagging wife, migraines, all False!!!
"1993/08/23 THE ROCK - SPORTS ILLUSTRATED VAULT | SI" ...Very Important article which explains exactly why he abandoned his kids and wife then left them penniless.
Why is Marciano the 'ONLY' fighter being defended with he said "this", or he said "that", or he said "this", or he said "that", or he said "this", or he said "that", quotes, quotes, quote after quote, and more quotes? Because he 'CANNOT' be defended with his resume alone!!! Who did he fight besides washed light heavyweights masquerading and moonlighting as Heavyweights? Name 'ONE' topnotch prime 200+lb Heavyweight he fought? Waiting? TIC TOC TIC TOC? Still waiting? That's what i thought, ""ZERO""
Y'all Rocky fan's write a lot of interesting historical points, but never address the actual issue of 'BODYWEIGHT', so your historical research gets you nowhere. You have to beat credible "HEAVYWEIGHT" opponents to be respected as a legitimate 'Heavyweight' champion. Correct?
@Bobby D Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history.
Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."
Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START IT'S HOW YOU FINISH."
57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
*The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]].* Other notable mentions; *Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* ..Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko.
How many *"prime"* 200+lb HW Champions
did 185-lb dwarfism-arms fight? *""ZERO""!!!!*
Imagine little Marciano tryin to fight
top-notch Super Heavyweights with
80" to 86" albatross wingspans
and 40 to 90-lb weight advantages?
Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles was definitely Marciano's toughest opponent and is the only person that took him 15 rounds even *with ALS!!!*
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."*
*People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.*
*In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."*
*Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
@Bobby D Puncher of The Century Earnie Shavers is known for being the hardest puncher in Heavyweight boxing history. He scored 69 knockout wins, including 23 in the first round.
So powerful, both Joe Frazier and George Foreman told boxing writer Jerry Eisenberg they would never fight Shavers. Real fighters knew enough to avoid him. His incredible one punch power made him more than dangerous. George Foreman told him personally when Earnie lobbied for a fight, "hell no." Joe Frazier told Shavers bluntly when Shavers asked him for a shot, "No way, Earnie.”
Hall of Fame and all time greats Ali and Holmes both said Shavers power, especially his one punch power, was simply unrivaled. But they, and others, also said a lot more..
Angelo Dundee, the great trainer, said "Earnie wasn't really a good boxer, but God, his power was amazing."
Muhammad Ali said after his match with Shavers, "Earnie hit me so hard, he shook my kinfolk back in Africa"
And when fighters had to meet him, they left in awe. Tex Cobb said "Earnie could punch you in the neck with his right hand and break your ankle." He also said, "if a man hit any harder than Earnie I'd shoot him."
Ron Lyle: "Hey man, that's the hardest I've ever been hit in my life. And George Foreman could punch, but none of them could hit like Earnie Shavers did. When he hit you, the lights went out. I can laugh about it now, but at the time it wasn't funny."
Larry Holmes, comparing Shavers to Tyson, said "Earnie hit me harder than any other fighter, including Mike Tyson. He hit me and I was face down on the canvas hearing saxophonist Jimmy Tillis."
Jimmy Young, who was knocked cold by Shavers in his first fight, but survived the second, said "I was not gonna get tagged by him again, no sir!"
Nor were fighters and trainers the only ones who saw and marveled at Shavers sheer overwhelming power. Hall of Fame sports journalist Jerry Izenberg said of Shavers, "rarely did Earnie hit anyone below the neck; he was a headhunter and a good one. For me, Shavers was the greatest one-punch hitter I have ever seen."
"However, while Shavers struck serious fear into his opponents, such freakishly big hitting power had its drawbacks for the man himself," said Kenny Rainford.
“Being such a big puncher actually hurt my career,” says Shavers. “I relied on my power too much. I wish I’d had trainers that could have taught me more about combination punches."
“I used to gas out in five or six rounds because I put that much effort into my punches and it was impossible to punch for an entire fight without tiring out."
In the years that followed, Rainford met Ali and asked him about the famous fight with Shavers.
“I can not remember the last round of our fight,” Ali admitted. “He hit me so hard that for fourteenth round, I was on autopilot. I can’t remember a thing. When I’ve watched the fight back, and see the way I rallied in the fifteenth round, I was doing that off memory.”
Shavers reigned down on Ali with 266 punches that night. Afterwards, Rainford claims, the New York commission stated Ali would never fight in New York again after doctors discovered tears on his brain.
Eig's study, conducted by Arizona State speech scientists Visar Berisha and Julie Liss found that Ali's speech slowed by 16 percent after a 15-round bout with Ernie Shavers in 1977. Shavers, a brawler, landed 266 punches throughout the fight. If one fight had to be picked, Ernie Shavers inflicted the most damage.
Shavers is directly responsibly for the early retirements of Ron Asher, Frank Smith, Bunky Akins, Bill McMurray, Harold Carter, Eddie Parotte and Larry Sims, all of whom he knocked out and never fought again.
Louis doesn't have the credentials of the posters here. They know more about boxing 🥊 than Joe Louis. Marciano retired undefeated. Pounded everyone into submission.
EXACTLY
RIGHT
Greatest boxing historian to me is Don Turner, and whatever he says about boxing, I second it !
During round 6 Marciano said, "Why Doesn't He Go Down?" "What's Holding Him Up?" "I Can't Understand It, I'm Getting Arm Weary." Marciano hit skinny Charles full power dozens of times and still couldn't finish him. We just witnessed it. That's all the proof anyone needs that he was not a superior 'Power' hitter!
that vid is -- Main Event: Marciano vs Charles
from Majik Man
Rocky's commentary covers rounds 1 4 6 10 15
Great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS, who was like fodder fed to a pitbull, kinda like when they fed Larry Holmes to an angry Mike Tyson, or allowed Ali to be served up to Holmes.
John Durant author of The Heavyweight Champions wrote in 1971 (pg 123,) “Critics do not rate Rocky with the great ones, like Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, and Louis. He never faced topnotch fighters like they did. It was not Rocky’s fault, of course, that there was not much talent when he was fighting.”
Little white Rocky was slow as molasses. They wouldn't stand a chance against modern era Heavyweights. And the Peds have nothing to do with anything. It's the multi mega million dollar purses that's pulling in more authentic Super Heavyweights from the football fields and basketball courts.
You white Marciano lovers 💕 adore little Rocky's high-work-rate, but 6'2" 237 lb Ike "The President" Ibeabuchi threw a record breaking 975 punches vs David Tua in their 12 round fight, more than tiny penguin🐧arms was capable of. Authentic Heavyweight Ibeabuchi would've manhandled small Rocco and smashed him like a 🍇 grape.
Honestly I don't care about amusing anecdotes, cherry picked quotes and his embellished feats because you can do that with every great fighter. I don't care about broken bones and putting under matched fighters in a coma. (Ray Mancini killed a fighter in the ring, does that elevate his status as a boxer?).
Yeah, when you fight small, non mobile fighters who just stand flat footed and traded punches, a hard puncher can inflict damage.
Interesting you don't mention how many think LaStarza and definitely Ted Lowry actually beat Marciano, but we won't go there. What I care about is how many great boxers in their prime or close to their prime did he beat?
The great fighters he beat was a 37 year old Joe Louis (who's best years were in 37, 38 and 1939), 38-39 year old Walcott, 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore, and a past his prime light heavyweight Ezzard Charles.
You claim Charles wasn't the same fighter after fighting Marciano. Well he wasn't the same after losing twice to Walcott. Charles lost two of his previous four fights before fighting Marciano and Rocky had all kinds of trouble with him.
There's a reason all the professionals, boxing writers and historians in the 60s only rated Rocky #7 all-time (and this was BEFORE Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson, Vitali etc). Funny how his status rises as fewer people remain who actually covered him when he fought. Also nobody ever mentions the highly rated fighters in his era HE conveniently didn't fight. If you want to tell the story, tell the WHOLE story.
Wow all these comments. You must be pretty upset
a MUST read about the very disturbed psychopath Rocky Marciano ( @- 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI ) I'm not a hater, Marciano has always been my favorite. Rocky fans need to understand why he abandoned his kids and wife then left them penniless.
All u white Marchegiano lovers 💕 adore Rocco's high work-rate, but 6'2" 240 lb Ibeabuchi threw more punches than tiny penguin 🐧 arms Marchegiano could have imagined. Little Rocco would have been an absolute embarrassment fightin proven authentic Super Heavyweights.
If racial bigotry was not the order of the day. If white privilege was not the priority, if Rocky Marciano, did not have the complexion for the connection, especially given the fact he never fought ONE SINGLE Black fighter in his Prime, Rocky Marciano WOULD NOT have been heavyweight champion.
And consider this: Deontay Wilder, with a 93% KO Record, is doing WAAAAY BETTER as a heavyweight, than Marciano in his day could ever hope to do. AND YET, the racist, most white people call him “a bum.” Imagine that!
Rocky Marciano was a mediocre fight knocking out cherry picked mediocre bums to pad his record and satisfy the wishes of white supremacy.
Since his retirement 62 years ago, NOT ONE SINGLE white American has won the heavy title...NONE!!! Gee, I wonder why????!
Out of all the boxers in history why is little Rocky the only one that has to be defended through quotes? Quote after quote after endless quotes. Why? Because y'all cannot defend him with his resume alone. Why? Because he only fought former welterweights, middleweights, and light heavyweights moonlighting as Heavyweights. Ali said this or Louis said that, so it must be true. The funniest one is Don Turner saying, "Marciano could beat both Klitschko brothers at the same time in the same round." And of course Marciano casuals literally believed it as truth. Just because Ali said, "Rocky was like a bull and would be difficult to knock out," does that make it true? Holmes said, "Rocky couldn't carry his jockstrap," does that make it true? Foreman came out with his own top 10 greatest Heavyweights list and he didn't even include himself. It's called being humble, creating a public image. What else are they supposed to say? Marciano was horseshit?
I couldn’t agree more. The fighters who have the biggest casual fans are, Marciano, Hagler and Tyson. All of these men were legendary champions. But their fans seem to lack any sense of objectivity. I am the world’s biggest Ali fan. For me he was the greatest because no other fighter had a bigger impact on boxing than him. But does being “The Greatest” make him the best fighter? Of course not. He held his opponents continuously, couldn’t fight inside, hardly ever threw a body punch etc. A prime Holmes or Tyson would have given him hell, as did Norton and Frazier. But this doesn’t diminish his greatness any more than Hagler’s defeat to Leonard does, or Marciano’s weak opposition or Tyson’s losses. They were, and are still great champions. A real boxing fan can have his idols but should still be objective.
One word….Undefeated. Approximately 105 heavyweight Champions (I lose track with all the Alphabet titles today), over the course of about 138 years. All shapes and sizes, some tall, some short, some fast, some slow, some big punchers, some light hitters, many clever boxers, some a combination of both, a variety of races and ethnicities, some with great trainers and managers, a few not so much, some just crazy strong, others not so, some big, others not that big, an abundance of different styles, attributes and ability, many in the hall of fame and deservedly so. Just one undefeated. Just one.
You have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion, not light heavyweights moonlighting as Heavyweights.
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles weighed a 'Massive' 181 pounds when he won his vacant paper 'Heavyweight' championship against Walcott in 1949. Charles had the lowest ever 42 KO percentage and weighed a 'Huge' 182 pounds when he lost his HW title exactly 2 years later against Walcott of course. Journeyman Walcott was the closest thing to genuine Heavyweight as he fluctuated between 158 lbs vs Carl Mays up-to 197 lbs vs Rocky. So he was actually Middleweight, Light heavyweight, and Cruiserweight by today's standards. Problem was grandfather Joe was 39 when he faced prime 29yr old Marciano, and Walcott had already lost 40% of his fights.
The entire 1950s so called 'Heavyweight' division was a complete and utter joke by today's HW standards. Both Charles & Moore attained their HOF status as Light heavyweights, not Heavyweights. Heck Marciano even fought two Middleweights, Ross and Bilazarian. And seven Light heavyweights, Charles, Moore, Matthews, Haft, Lowry, Applegate, and Jefferson. Shameful for a Heavyweight. There was no such thing as Heavyweights. It was all about the Light heavyweights and little Cruiserweight. Period.
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
Rocky Marciano said of Liston, "he isn't faking his toughness, and his strength is just something you got to see, and that jab, he can knock a man out with the jab!" When asked how he would have fought him, the Rock shook his head and said “I’d have done my best, but Lord God he is strong…”
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
Marciano gives Ali a harder fight than liston does, but Liston will ko Marcianno.
Liston took a dive in the second Ali fight. Boxing has been corrupted for decades!
@@danielroberts6212 Especially with the 1950s during Marciano's era. The Sicilians controlled it all.
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike.
How about we throw a little spin on your theory... for example if we gave Rocky Marciano all the advantages that Tyson had for example being able to watch films of all the boxes for hours and hours a trainer I like the D'Amato, steroids ad performance drugs to boot! If a boxer like Holyfield could come up from cruiserweight and beat Mike Tyson then I believe under the right conditions so could Marciano!
The video is about Ali not Tyson….put down the 6 pack bros.
Combined, Walcott, Charles, Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Had little Rocky never existed nobody would be talking about Walcott, Charles, Moore. Truth is Marciano fans could careless about Walcott, Charles, Moore otherwise they would never denigrate and belittle other black fighters such as Ali, Liston, Holmes, Tyson, and Wilder. I've studied Marciano extensively for one year and it just dawned on me that is exactly what's happening. Rocky fans always besmirch black fighters EXCEPT for Walcott, Charles, Moore. I've witnessed it hundreds of times, pure Hate for Liston, Holmes, Tyson, yet pure Love for Walcott, Charles,
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
Stop with the black white crap.Marcaino was undefeated,you can't argue with that.He beat several world champs.
@@carlrball Undefeated against who? Light heavyweights and senior citizens.
@@carlrballUndefeated because of cherry picking and thrown fights…facts bro.
Southpaw Usyk is actually bigger than Ali. Joshua came in at 240-lbs, only an 18 lb weight advantage over a comfortable 222-lb Usyk who is 6' 3" with 78" reach.
Prime Clay/Ali was 6' 2.5" (passport) 212-lbs with 78" reach.
Holyfield was 6' 2.5" 218-lbs with 78" reach.
Michael Spinks was 6' 2.5" 208-lbs with 76" reach.
Mike Tyson was 5' 10" 220-lbs with 71" reach.
David Tua was 5' 10" 240-lbs with 71" reach.
And of course we mustn't forget 5' 10" 185-lb Marciano with his extremely famous "Shortest-Ever" 67" "Flyweight" reach.
Shocking isn't it. Those other small guys weren't so small after all. They had the natural weight advantage or the natural height and reach advantage so they were able to assimilate into the Heavyweight division with few to no problems. On the other hand 185-lb Marciano had some serious dwarfism problems going on with his reach. Simply put Marciano's bone structure was too short to assimilate effectively.
"Walking around weight" isn't a useful metric for determining a boxer's ideal weight division or in-the-ring weight unless one knows--at the very least--the boxer's bodyfat percentage at his "walking around weight". Some boxers stay lean between fights, others get quite fat. Marciano always stayed lean. For 7 years his average weight was 184lbs. His fighting weight of 184-189lbs during his title defences, he was not incredibly lean and he wasn't dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight or very small cruiserweight by today's standards. Marciano never was nor could ever be a natural 200+lb Heavyweight.
FWIW, I think Usyk and Holyfield are both between 6'1" and 6'2" and I don't trust their listed reaches either.
When people only look at video clips highlights you can make anyone look like a beast of a fighter.
That don't mean that ALL of 'em ain't beasts of fighters.
Put Louis, Walcott, Charles and Moore all at 27yrs of age and Marciano at 37yrs of age. What happens? Exactly. Had roles been reversed Marciano undoubtedly would have LOST!!! Also little Rocky had to fight genuine Heavyweights (not genuine light heavys) inorder to be considered an ATG @ Heavyweight,, Correct?
🔥Paranoid psychoses, overly aggressive and violent behavior--(symptoms Marciano suffered)--@ '1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI
Both Ted Lowry and Roland LaStarza went to their graves saying they beat overrated Rocco Francis Marchegiano first fight, and all the newspaper reporters and fans ringside agreed. The Great authentic Heavyweight Larry Holmes referred to little Rocco padding his record by fighting his brother Peter Marchegiano on at least 3 or 4 occasions so as to boost his record, his brother fought under alias names ..this has also been mentioned in various books. Marchegiano's 49-0 record is FLAWED.
Obviously size is a massive factor, Marciano never fought anyone as big as Fury Lewis Bowe Ibeabuchi Vitali Wlad Holmes Tyson Liston Cleveland Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Holyfield Usyk Cooney Tua Morrison Golota Dokes Mercer Povetkin Byrd Haye Bruno Rahman Whyte Ruiz etcetera. Rocky struggled with small Ezzard Charles and Walcott, who were both slick movers with solid defense, much like Fury.
You white Marciano fan boys make me laugh. Rocky was too small for dozens of proven authentic Super Heavyweights. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. And how does Rocky reach Fury with the extreme height-reach difference, and Fury's foot speed?
@@blackdavidfrost-n-margot727 true , the whole division wasent that tall in the 50s..... Rocky was a little under average size in that era
Sportswriters tabbed Nat Fleischer (1887-1972), founder of The Ring magazine, as “Mr. Boxing” because of his deep knowledge and association with his beloved sport. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future.
In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing.
Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate.
Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.”
In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.”
In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past…”
“…Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.”
“He has faced very few real punchers during his career. The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. Joe Louis is not included since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.”
When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle, and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two warriors stood toe to toe and gave it their all, showing exceptional heart and endurance.
I try my best to envision light heavyweights Charles & Moore fightin "The Tuamanator" and always end up laughing. And "The President" would have walked through cruiserweights Marciano & Walcott as if they were invisible.
Imagine penguin arms tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 85" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90 pound weight advantages? 184 pounds give me a break, what a joke. Marciano was the best during his little post war era 3-generations ago but unfortunately he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to undefeated 270lb Joyce, undefeated 263lb Makhmudov, undefeated 248lb Sanchez, undefeated 247lb Hrgovic, undefeated 245lb Anderson and undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few.
And then there are so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney and Wilder. I could easily list another 25.
Ibeabuchi did that because he was on steroids. I did like his fights though
Consider that in the December 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Rocky Marciano a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’ 5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Rocky? This is a key point. Nat Fleischer rated Marciano at # 10, Charley Rose rated him at # 9, McCallum's survey of old-timers had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time heavyweight and 67 years have passed since Rocky retired... WTF? HOW DOES LITTLE ROCKY GO FROM 7TH PLACE DURING THE EARLY 1960s TO TOP 5 IN 2023?
Because his ranking is determined by modern computer metric algorithms. Problem is this man-made program was coded to exclude "WEIGHT" from the equation. That's why tiny-165 pound 'Heavyweight' champion Bob Fitzsimmons from the 1800s is ranked ahead of giant Riddick Bowe. How's it possible 185 pound Marciano ranks higher than Fury Holmes Lewis Vitali Wladimir Foreman Bowe Tyson etcetera? Well now we all know why!!! Even though Heavyweight champions ranged from 165 (Fitzsimmons) to 328 (Valuev) pounds, ranking bodies still exclude "WEIGHT" from their metric, even though they 'Still Acknowledge Seventeen (17) Different "WEIGHT" Classes', imagine that.
"AGE" is another code omitted from the metric. The algorithms only see Marciano fought 4 Hall of Famers and went 49-0, it doesn't see Archie Moore was 41 years "old" and "light" heavyweight moonlighting at Heavyweight. That's why ALL Heavyweight rankings should be looked upon with a grain of salt. Unfortunately Rocky fanboys cling to his inaccurately coded rankings as if it were life and death.
The same reason Dempsey was ranked 6th or 7th in polls that came out in 1930. I can assure you Dempsey wouldn’t have had that same ranking only 2-4 years after he retired from the ring. People were still listing Jack Johnson and James Jeffries and Bob Fitzsimmons as GOAT in the 1930s. Joe Louis was champion from 1937 to 1948-he had been around a long time by the time of that poll. Marciano didn’t even win the belt until the early 50s
Do you expect modern boxing analysts to rank Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury in their top 10 if they’re ranking the best fighters of all time? It takes a while before people start to give them credit
@@Ditka-89 you don't know what your talking about
@@Ditka-89 just making up stuff as you go along
@@Ditka-89 Dempsey was NEVER ranked 6th or 7th in 1930!!!
@@Ditka-89 Dempsey was ranked ""FIRST"" in 1962!!!
UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou 6' 4" 260 lbs with 83" reach paid a visit to UFC Performance Institute where he created the world record for the hardest punch ever measured. Ngannou recorded a punch of 129,161 units on a PowerKube, which measures the power of a punch based on a variety of different factors, including force, speed and accuracy. Ngannou set that record in 2017 and nobody has surpassed him yet (185lb 67" flyweight reach Rocky couldn't do half that).
Vid: New world record for the HARDEST punch - Francis Ngannou - AFC
How do we know Rocky's punch test was real?
I've looked EVERYWHERE and every author has a different take. This is about the best you'll find: "Around 1955, Rocky Marciano had his punch measured at a USA military installation, where it is believed that the test was conducted on a ballistic pendulum. Rocky achieved a score of 925 foot-pounds whilst wearing a 12oz boxing glove." (Notice the words "Around" and "believed")
Was the test recorded? So our own USA military engineering science department creates a special gizmo to test Rocky's punching power yet nobody thought to record it. Where is the proof? Where is the paperwork? Where are the people? Where is the evidence? Why isn't any of this information written in any of Rocky's numerous biographies? Because biographies must be factual otherwise a defamation lawsuit could be filed.
Also watch The Strongest Man in the World Eddie Hall Try to Break UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou's World Record for Most Powerful Punch -(below)
{{ Can I hit Harder than Francis Ngannou / Punching Power Test }}
Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 40W 20L is nothing to brag about.
Roids ain't gonna make little white Rocky's penguin 🐧 alligator 🐊 dwarfism arms grow longer? Besides, if ya put 25 lbs on Rocky he would have moved slower than molasses, and he'd still need the use of a stepladder inorder to reach King Fury.
UFC? LOL! What a joke. We're talking boxers here, not schoolyard chumps.
No way Cassius Clay or anyone else would beat Rocky Marciano, he had too much strength, too much heart, too much guts for anyone!
In December 1962, a The Ring poll of 40 boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the #1 Heavyweight of All-Time, with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th. Two boxing historians, Herb Goldman and Charley Rose, and John McCallum's Survey of Old Timers (survey of a group of historians and writers) rated Marciano at #7, #8, and #9, of All-Time.
Despite his perfect record, Marciano is never rated as the top Heavyweight of All-Time. John Durant, author of The Heavyweight Champions, wrote in 1971 (p. 123): "Critics do not rate Rocky with the great ones, like Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney and Louis. He never faced top fighters like they did. It was not Rocky's fault, of course, that there was a lack of talent when he was boxing." Also in 1971, Nat Fleischer, a boxing historian and founder of The Ring, named Marciano as the 10th All-Time Greatest Heavyweight champion.
In 1998, The Ring named Marciano as the 6th Greatest Heavyweight.
In 2005, Marciano was named the 5th Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time by the International Boxing Research Organization.
In 2007, on ESPN's list, Marciano was the 5th highest ranked Heavyweight, behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Jack Dempsey.
It's very easy to see Marciano's progression. The key is understanding why? Because of Millions in donation's or because he's the White-Hope?
His best 3 opponents were two light heavyweights moonlighting as cruiserweights and one cruiserweight, making his resume the weakest of All-Time. What a shame.
Nonsense.
@Bobby D that's only *ONE* list.. other lists have him 7th, 9th and 10th.. he's dropping fast 😭
@Bobby D anyone can sit around a table and make a list.. That's what pays their bills.. If you knew anything about boxing you'd know he doesn't deserve to be top 15 let alone top 4.. we all know he shouldn't be ahead of Holmes Lewis Foreman Holyfield Frazier Wladimir etc.
@Bobby D you're simply ras-sist
Ali said: "those critics in the Ring magazine are a bunch of suckers, they don't know nothing of the boxing".
I agree!
Rocky and Louis were the all time great of there time .
Muhammad Ali is the greatest. Marciano wouldn't have stood a chance. Ali would've mesmerized Marciano and cut him to ribbons.
Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 40W 20L is nothing to brag about.
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
The more i investigate each one of white hype Rocky's opponents the more i realize just how undeniably pathetic and controlled his 49-0 actually was.
A couple days before D-Day Rocky Marciano committed assault and robbery. He was found unfit for duty and served 18 months in the stockade. While everyone went off to fight and die in battle Rocky stayed in bed (premeditated). After retiring he abandoned his family to sleep with thousands then left them penniless. Psychotic. Needed Help.
Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Holmes Wladimir Foreman Liston Tyson Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Holyfield Usyk Cooney Tua Morrison Golota Dokes Mercer Povetkin Byrd Haye Bruno Rahman Whyte Ruiz Cleveland Williams etc. are all faster than slow-little Rocky despite being so much Bigger. Marciano fans know that Rocky's not winning any of these fights but will never admit it. Stop living in denial. Rocky is so overrated and definitely doesn't deserve to be ranked within the top 10. Maybe 28th place in top 30.
@bobbyd719 *Cry louder Gregory. I can not hear you.*
There's a reason all the professionals, boxing writers and historians in the 60s only rated Rocky #7 all-time (and this was BEFORE Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson, Vitali etc). Funny how his status rises as fewer people remain who actually covered him when he fought. Also nobody ever mentions the highly rated fighters in his era HE conveniently didn't fight. If you want to tell the story, tell the WHOLE story.
Welp.... I suggest go to the 70's then and now and look up Big George Foremans list lol.. Dude knew wth he was talking about.. And hell while he's got Marciano at #2, Marciano absolutely destroyed his number 1 pick...
And no race has nothing to do with it. I suggest you go read how the black fighters in Marciano's time viewed the guy.. Literally ALL of em knew the motherfucker with his unorthodox constant pressuring moving forward style was a train wreck to deal with in the ring.. Especially the best and purest boxers because they had no time to get set and were unable to use their superior boxing style against Marciano because he simply didn't let em
People forget that Marciano and Ali spared 70+ rounds for their computer fight. Marciano was 46 at the time but had whipped himself into shape for the sparing sessions. According to those who were there Rocky brutalized Ali and even dropped Ali for the count with a body shot when Ali kept flicking at Marciano's toupee after being told repeatedly to stop. At one point Ali demanded more money. He said Marciano hit too hard and pulled up his shirt to show his welt covered torso to demonstrate his point. Afterward Ali said Marciano was much harder to hit than he expected and couldn't believe how hard he punched. Ferdie Pacheco was part of Ali's camp at the time and wrote a book called Ghosts in the Machine about the computer fight. He said Ali's people were shocked how easily Marciano was able to maneuver Ali against the ropes and corner him. Again, Marciano was 46. Ali said he couldn't imagine what Marciano was like in his prime. Ali disparaged most fighters but not Marciano. He had nothing but respect for the man and had publicly stated he wasn't sure if he could've beaten him.
Marciano is completely underrated by boxing novices. Guys who know better recognize his greatness. George Foreman ranked him as the third best heavyweight of all time and Holyfield's trainer, Don Turner, has said Marciano could've beaten any heavyweight past or present.
I think Marciano really took a liking to Ali once they met, and both had an admiration for one another. I know Marciano was not perfect, but he was a solid dude and did not discriminate among people.
Gotta love how people believe anything they hear or read.
You are correct I saw Ali speaks about maricno and Don too maricno was the men!
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history.
Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."
Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START, IT'S HOW YOU FINISH."
57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]]. Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson.
Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko.
How many "prime" 200+lb HW Champions
did 184 pound dwarfism-arms fight? ""ZERO""!!!!
A small penguin actually has a longer wingspan than Rocky's 67" inch flyweight reach. Imagine penguin arms tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 85" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90 pound weight advantages? 184 pounds give me a break,, what a Joke!
You again?
He was big a useless.
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost "Time" tends to give to a fighters ranking.
Rocky Marciano's All-Time ranking in 1962
" In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40
boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the
#1 Heavyweight of All-Time, with Joe Louis
2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th."
In 1971
" In 1971, Nat Fleischer, perhaps boxing's most
famous historian and also editor and founder
of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the
All-Time 10th Greatest Heavyweight Champion."
But by 1998, despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's et al, " In 1998, Ring named Marciano as the 6th Greatest Heavyweight Champion ever."
We float around to 2005, and " In 2005,
Marciano was named the 5th Greatest
Heavyweight of All-Time by the International
Boxing Research Organization."
We skip to the modern day,
and he's just been bumped up to 3rd.
Will he one day be Greater than Ali?
Just find it an interesting aspect of boxing,
that "0" carries a-lot of clout.
@Bobby D Why doesn't that "0" carry any clout for Light heavyweight Gold Medalist Undisputed "Undefeated" HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks??? Could it possibly be because of skin tone??? I mean I'm white and proud of it. But it's so obvious Bobby and you know it is..
@Bobby D that's why i emphasized the word -- Light
over and over again and again you're so
@Bobby D S
@Bobby D T
@Bobby D U
The overwhelming majority of Marciano fans just look at his 49-0. There's a reason boxing experts in 1962 (who actually saw him fight) only rated him 7th all-time and that was BEFORE Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's, Fury etc.
Mike Tyson was gifted with type II fast-twitch muscle fibers. He came out the gate sprinting like 220 pound Quarter 🐎 Horse, while 185 pound Marciano came out the gate shuffling forward like Little 🐢Turtle. 1980's 20yr old phenom Mike easily KO's Rocky 10 outta 10 times!
And everybody on the planet said tyson would destroy holyfield to. Lol so few really know the game of boxing.
@@coymatlock8711 Southpaw Usyk is actually bigger than Ali. Joshua came in at 240 lbs, only an 18 lb weight advantage over a comfortable 222 lb Usyk who is 6' 3" with 78" reach.
Holyfield was 6' 2.5" 218 lbs with 78" reach.
Michael Spinks was 6' 2.5" 208 lbs with 76" reach.
Prime Clay/Ali was 6' 2.5" (passport) 212 lbs with 78" reach.
And of course we mustn't forget 5'10" 185 lb Marciano with his extraordinarily shortest-ever 67" flyweight reach.
Shocking isn't it.
Those other small guys weren't so small after all.
They already had the natural height and reach so they were able to assimilate into the Heavyweight division with few problems.
On the other hand little 185 lb Marciano had some serious dwarfism problems going on with his reach. Simply put Marciano's bone structure was too short to assimilate effectively.
@@coymatlock8711 Holyfield was 10 times better than little Marciano and beats him 10 out of 10 times.
Yeah if Cus was still alive!
Great video! Really interesting! 🥊
Had little rocky had a normal duration boxing career like "Everyone" else did, he woulda had to face the likes of Patterson, Machen, Johansson, Folley, Liston, Jones, Clay, Terrell, Cleveland, and Chuvalo just to name a few. Instead he only had to deal with Light-heavyweights similar to Matthews, Lowry, Charles, Moore, etc. Little rocky is damned lucky he quit when he did.
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 40W 20L is nothing to brag about.
I bet he would have knocked your block off little boy
The theory that the Rocky didn't have a good competition in his era doesn't have any legs to stand on because In boxing like any sport good competition only makes you better at your craft!
You're entitled to your opinion
I think most people would disagree
Rocky's punching power and stamina
Was Superior to just about all the people you mentioned except for George Foreman
Marciano
Y'all Rocky fan's write a lot of interesting historical points, but never address the actual issue of 'BODYWEIGHT', so your historical research gets you nowhere. You have to beat credible "HEAVYWEIGHT" opponents to be respected as a legitimate 'Heavyweight' champion. Correct?
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
Great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS, who was like fodder fed to a pitbull, kinda like when they fed Larry Holmes to an angry Mike Tyson, or allowed Ali to be served up to Holmes.
Marciano was a T-34: clumsy, rough-hewn, ungainly - unstoppable.
To put the "Weight" issue into better perspective, BoxRec has officially listed these Marciano opponents as middleweights and light heavyweights:
Eddie Ross - division "Middleweight"
Harry Bilazarian - division "Middleweight"
Ezzard Charles - division "Light heavy"
Archie Moore - division "Light heavy"
Harry Matthews - division "Light heavy"
Harry Haft - division "Light heavy"
Ted Lowry - division "Light heavy"
Willis Applegate - division "Light heavy"
Bob Jefferson - division "Light heavy"
Because of little Rocky's so called "tiny-Heavyweight" era is 'Exactly' why the 'Cruiserweight' division was created during the late 70s. There comes a point the size disparity becomes a bridge too far even for very good smaller boxers. Did the Klitschko brothers have the luxury of fightin middleweights and light heavyweights? "NOPE"
Heck, even a new Bridgerweight (200 to 224lbs) division has recently been added because too many 210 lb heavyweights complained. "SIZE MATTERS" like it or not.
For everyone out there blaming today's size increase on PEDs just remember that PEDs would not have helped Rocky's extraordinarily short flyweight arms grow longer. PEDs will not automatically make someone 6' 9" with an 85" albatross reach. Also if little 185 lb Rocky was so powerful why didn't he ever break any bones? He never broke one single rib, nose, eye-socket, jaw, etc.
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."
It's no wonder Vingo said, ""I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD"" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin
"ROCKY MARCIANO REASONS FOR RETIREMENT---@THE ROCKY MARCIANO ARCHIVES" ...Everything about why he retired in his own words. Bad back, nagging wife, migraines, all False!!!
"1993/08/23 THE ROCK - SPORTS ILLUSTRATED VAULT | SI" ...Very Important article which explains exactly why he abandoned his kids and wife then left them penniless.
Do you really copy and past this same crap on every dam video with Marciano....lol Wtf dude
Shaddap.
There are some lies involved here, so lets add, you probably could have taken him.
Jess Willard was as big as Klitchko, and Dempsey pounded him to hamburger. Tyson was 5' 10", same as Rocky. You're talking BS, because you're a nitwit.
@@henrysniper8481 what lies??? name them or concession accepted
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he Quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's, Fury, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record. But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc. It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. Why is that? Because he's black?
Rocky never dodged anyone, and this was at a time when all the athletic talent in the world was concentrated into just boxing and baseball, before other sports got big enough to rival and surpass them.
Rocky was managed well, but only so that he fought the right opponents to prepare him for even greater ones.
@@surrealistidealist Name the greater ones. Name them
In 1962 Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the Greatest Heavyweight of all Time. These are people who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano was ranked 7th!!! The majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer rated Marciano at # 10, Charley Rose rated him at # 9, and McCallum's survey of old-timers also rated him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time heavyweight and 67 years have passed since Rocky retired. Marciano is regarded by so many as the Greatest Heavyweight ever. The absolute best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights? I don't see how his status moves up with the multitude of Great Heavyweights that came after him. In my opinion too many Marciano fans don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond. The experts in 1962 knew the Truth.
ruclips.net/video/3TV4nmM6Auc/видео.html
You know, they know and we all know Marciano was the best ever and hardest puncher of all time, period.
@bobbyd1776 How did they get wiser when they never saw him fight? All those polls and rankings have been created by white folk out of sympathy. Little cruiser Rocky only weighed 184lbs with flyweight reach. Yet u really believe he's the 4th Greatest Super Heavyweight of All Time LMFAO 😂
@bobbyd1776 Little 184lb cruiser Rocky with petite flyweight reach is the 7th Greatest Super Heavyweight Puncher of All Time LMFAO 🤣
Those old-school heavyweight champions like 165 lb Fitzsimmons, 175 lb Burns, 181 lb Charles, 182 lb Patterson and 184 lb Marciano are Gone Finished History. Welcome to the New SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT era that little Rocky wouldn't even be allowed to enter.
Modern day fighters go together with steroids and performance drugs at the old-school gladiators didn't have! For example Holyfield where would he have been without them...definitely not the heavyweight division!
Remember though these so called super sized Heavyweights had they fought in the 40s or 50s wouldn't have been as big as they are now and witj the lack of training skills and lack of skills , a guy like Tyson Fury or Deonty Wilder wouldn't have cracked the top 10.
You guys are dreaming
Everyone who thinks age is a factor it not! Foreman 45 and A. Moore 48 were world champions just think about it for a while
I'm not real big on boxing. But I do have a pretty good knowledge of boxing history. If Rocky Marciano had come out of retirement around 1960 as he said he thought of doing in another interview. He likely would have eventually fought Ali or Sonny Liston.
If either one of them had defeated Marciano it probably would have been a repeat of the Jack Johnson Jim Jeffries fight of 1910. Maybe even some rioting would have resulted as it did after the Johnson -Jefferies contest.
I’ve watched every televised bout of both these legends since 1979, Rocky was 5-10” and had the shortest reach of any HW Champ in history, and Ali was 6 foot 3” with a 80” reach, Rocky would make a helluva fight of it, but he wouldn’t of been quick enough or able to reach Ali often enough to beat him, Ali by decision or he cuts the Rock up for a late stoppage win depending on what era you fought them in 🥊
Throughout Clay's career he had trouble with short boxer's like Frasier and Norton and i do be Rocky is still the Champion Of The World!
Like Ali said, "when Joe Louis says I'm going to lose I know I've already won this one because Joe always picks the wrong one." 😂
Lois actually predicted a Frazier decision.because he was fighting regularly.
Oh well. Hell.. Go watch Ali's thoughts on how his fight with Marciano would have went.. No it wasn't 100% Marciano, but it was 50/50.. Take that with Louis' thoughts, I'd say yeah it would have been Rocky...
No way
@@evanbarr9270 even when Ali fought regularly Louis picked him to lose, Louis was world war 2 era old school and just didn't like Ali
@@youtoo2233 Ive seen many interviews with them together and when Lois was involved in calling a fight.He definatly respected Ali skills ,and I am quoting Joe when he said Frazier will win the fight ,because he had been fighting regular where ali was off .He also said Joe can win a decision it does not have to be by knouckout .Joe was a class act .would never let personel feelings come out in interviews.
Lennox Lewis Manhandles Low-Power Ali. He was much bigger-framed and clearly the bigger puncher. Ali wouldn't be able to out muscle him and Lewis would wreak too much havoc. Soft spoken Lennox at his best was the total package and when he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history.
Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses,, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and, "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."
Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha." IT'S NOT HOW YOU START,, IT'S HOW YOU FINISH.
Been involved with boxing many years in-n-outta the ring and small heavyweight Ali was missing one main ingredient 'POWER'. Ali's ability to eat thousands of head shots cost him his retirement. That's why 56 year old Lewis is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...(technically not all were "World Champions" but champions nonetheless). Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha, Phil Jackson.
How many Genuine Heavyweight Champions did little 185lb cruiserweight Rocky Marciano fight? "ONE", Joe Louis who was already over the hill but came back from the dead before Count Dracula of Transylvanian did.
Joe is correct
Rocky fans love to disparage and belittle today's Super Heavyweights by saying they could not go 15 rounds. Keep in mind that little Rocky only went 15 rounds "ONE" time!!! The rest of his bouts were 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 round fights!!! So where did all his famous endurance disappear to?? The incessant exaggerations y'all come up with is laughable.
I mean it wasn't only once, he certainly had 13 rounders, and the amount of time fighters have to rest after being knocked down, doctors stoppages, advanced gloves, and several months in between fights isn't nothin. And on top of that if ur nose literally splits in half u arnt allowed to keep fighting
Tommy Burns was the shortest heavyweight champ not Marciano.
Frazier once said if he could beat Ali, then Louis and Marciano could too. Then again, Frazier has said he could beat Tyson etc. They all talk all kinds of shit and contradict themselves at times. Ali was beat by Frazier, essentially in his peak and lost to Norton as well. He was beatable. Marciano is a dark horse, but can't be dismissed due to tape measure arguments, he beat too many opponents that had tangible advantages over him to make that case.
Frazier was a hell of a fighter, but he was dreaming, if he thought for one moment that he could beat tyson. tyson would have knocked him out.
@@louisvaccaro5865 Frazier had a better Left hook than Tyson and More of an iron will than Tyson! Sure I still think Tyson would be a favorite to win that fight but Frazier also had the potential to knock out Tyson with that deadly Left hook if he catches Tyson! FYI Frazier was also known as the black Marciano because of his relentless style especially when putting pressure on another fighter!🥊
@@John-vn1tv wuda,kuda,shuda, what if? one will never know. remember what forman did to frazier????. they were all great fighters. all the best.
When asked by Ken Harrelson (the day he got on the plane that crashed) in 1969 how he would have done against Ali in his prime, Marciano told him that Ali would have cut him up badly but that the Rock would have KOd him by the 15th round. Which is exactly what the Ali/Marciano computer fight model predicted would happen. Modest to the very end, on his last day on Earth, Rocky answered the question of the century by simply repeating what the computer calculated outcome would have been.
hi josh, what really pisses me off, is they never give rocky marciano his do!, when they list the best ten heavyweight boxers, they dont even mention rockys name!, as you know, rocky marciano retired with a perfect record, 49&0, with 43 knockouts!! yet they dont even mention his name, what a shame!!, they say ali was the greatest boxer, which is bullshit, oh yes, he was dam good, but i think he had 6 losses. not trying to compare, just stating the facts. all the best, Louie Vaccaro, las vegas.
Rocky was literally not fair for the heavyweight division if he would have fought today hed be a super middleweight which i dont believe he would have done good against men he size its very rare you have a little guy that can hit as hard as he did or being able to get hit and keep coming and being the smaller man he was going to hit you im an Ali fan all day but in reality I can't confidently say Ali woulda won
Why is Marciano the 'ONLY' fighter being defended with he said "this", or he said "that", or he said "this", or he said "that", or he said "this", or he said "that", quotes, quotes, quote after quote, and more quotes? Because he 'CANNOT' be defended with his resume alone!!! Who did he fight besides washed light heavyweights masquerading and moonlighting as Heavyweights? Name 'ONE' topnotch prime 200+lb Heavyweight he fought? Waiting? TIC TOC TIC TOC? Still waiting? That's what i thought, ""ZERO""
@Bobby D Who did Marciano fight? Those 4 Hall of Famers already attained their legacies before they faced little Rocky. Folks trying to say those 4 were still prime are clueless about boxing. Charles/Moore peaked at light heavyweight not cruiserweight. Louis was a shell of himself and Walcott's 41% losses (49-20) is nothing to brag about.
Mike Tyson was gifted with type II fast-twitch muscle fibers. He came out the gate sprinting like 220 pound Quarter 🐎 Horse, while 185 pound Marciano came out the gate shuffling forward like Little 🐢Turtle. 1980's 20yr old phenom Mike easily KO's Rocky 10 outta 10 times!
Oh let's see, Roland Lastarza, Rex Lane, Carmine Vingo, Lee Savold, Bob Satterfield, Don Cockell. Figured I'd give you more than one to show you your true ignorance. Rocky hit at over 1000 foot pounds, harder than all Heavyweights. Including Francis, and Shavers, Foreman, and Liston. He would have murdered todays fighters!!!
This response is also for Samantha Lavery, what the hell would she know about Boxing anyway. Lol...
@blackDavidFrost-n-margot Mike was great at 20, and pretty much done at 32. The 20 year old version, was one of my favorites. But truth be told, Iron Mike was the only great Heavyweight Champion that once he got clipped on the chin he couldn't come back from it !! Seen him get stiffed more than one too many times. Marciano would have dumped him by 10 rounds. 10 out of 10 times...
😮Joe Louis has been called the greatest fighter ever. I don't doubt that Louis was a great fighter, lasting longer than any champion in every division in boxing history (somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that). Anyway, there was an interview where the great fighters were asked about Rocky Marciano. Joe Louis stated that Marciano was the greatest fighter ever! Who really is the greatest fighter ever? That's an opinion, but the Rock must rank as one of the greatest! Y'all take care
Rocky wouldn't have a chance. He is too short, too slow, no reach and little skill.
No reach? No skill? You obviously have never seen him fight, it doesn't matter about his reach infact being shorter means you can hit harder due to the way the human body is structured
Joe Louis always had a problem with Ali, he didn't like him that's a well known fact.
Ali would be too big and too fast for Marciano , like a bigger version of Jersey Joe Walcott. And if Marciano lands a big punch, Ali has the ability to take it.
Marciano was a Big Puncher
but definitely not harder than
Foreman, Liston, Shavers,
Cleveland Williams and Ron Lyle.
I agree
Marciano knocked ali out
totally agreed, Marciano was way too short and slow, in his own words he once said; 'that kid would run rings round me' even Marciano (Rocco Marchiagano) never liked Ali, (jealousy that burnt to his soul) even on an ozz t.v station he couldn't keep his true feelings hidden, though different era's, even Smokin Joe (aged 26)would have given an early retirement to Marciano, and big hitters like Foreman, Tyson, and lennox Lewis (at 6ft 6inches ) would have been too much for him. Bless😇
No,Marciano had conditioning that Ali didn't.Marciano wasn't composing simple poems about how great he was,he was training.You can't get around undefeated lifetime.
Marciano could not hit harder than Foreman, Shavers, or Cleveland Williams, but he could hit harder than everyone else. And one thing you don’t understand is that Marciano is better conditioned than Muhammad Ali. He never stopped throwing punches. Per round he would throw 80-100. Prime Mike Tyson would only throw around 50 a round. And every one of those punches had the ability to knock out someone 30-40 pounds heavier than he was. Muhammad may be taller, but in this fight he would falter.
Joe Louis is still the greatest of allllll time! In his prime he would've put away Marciano like he did guys like Galento.
Marciano vs Louis is a 55-45 fight in favor of Joe. He was the better technician and the greatest finisher ever. But Joe could be hurt and knocked out and Rocky had devastating power in both hands along with a great chin.
A prime Ali who still had his legs beats Rocky 9 times out of 10. Too much speed. Rocky never gets inside against that jab and movement. Ali also had a Great Chin and could absorb all Rocky could give.
What? What? You're conceding to Ali. If u r conceding little dwarfism-arms to Ali then you also have to concede little petite flyweight reach to about 30 other Super Heavyweights!!!
Peter Marciano, Rocky's younger brother, admitted Rocky retired from the ring bcz, *"losing a fight would be a tremendous embarrassment to him."*
So that's why he quit, he was terrified of losing!
Rocky knew he was gonna lose, it was inevitable!
Peter says that, -@ 13:10 *ROCKY MARCIANO vs MUHAMMAD ALI - THE SUPER FIGHT | DOCUMENTARY from BBTV BOXING*
It's no wonder he had no losses with a measly 7yr boxing career! Joe Louis's 19yrs is acceptable,, Walcott's 22yrs fine,, Moore's 27yrs all good,, Charles's 20yrs no problems. BUT BUT Little Mr. Midget Man only fights 7yrs then pitifully runs away from "embarrassment."
The funniest thing about this documentary is they build little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky up as if he were a Phenom, but towards the end they all agree that a prime Ali would have beaten him in a real boxing match LOL
My overall opinion is that entire computer ordeal was a quick money grab from tens of thousands of Marciano casuals just like YOU!!!
After watching this documentary be sure to watch - *Muhammad Ali Discusses Fixed Computerised Fights | The Dick Cavett Show*
(How many have ever seen the alternate ending with Ali winning? Well this documentary includes that ending!)
Three weeks after filming their simulated computer fight, Marciano died in a plane crash. After Ali attended a screening of the film he immediately launched legal proceedings against Woroner stating defamation of character, alleging the film's marketing had misled audiences worldwide to believe the fight was actual, while also stating any version of the film which depicted him losing was a result of him not taking the simulation seriously. Ali also claimed American audiences were left angered by Marciano being depicted as the winner. -- @ *Muhammad Ali Discusses Fixed Computerised Fights | The Dick Cavett Show*
Archie Moore said, *"ROCKY MARCIANO WAS ABOUT 15 YEARS YOUNGER THAN I WAS"* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears
Archie Moore also said, *"I WAS IN MY (40's) FORTY'S VS. FLOYD PATTERSON,"* --@ Rare Archie Moore Interview
The host asks Archie Moore, (@ 6:35) "why does your mother say your one age and you say another?" Archie replies, *"I DON'T DENY ANYTHING"* .. *"I NEVER DENY WHAT MY MOTHER QUOTES"* .. *"I KNOW MY AGE"* .. *"AND I'VE BEFUDDLED A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REQUIRING ABOUT MY AGE CONSTANTLY"* .. *"AND THAT KEEPS ME IN THE NEWS."* --@ Day and Night: Archie Moore, boxer
*LH Moore was in his 40s vs. little 184lb cruiserweight Marciano and that's no longer debatable!!! Case closed!!!*
That's not all. When asked who was the hardest puncher he'd ever faced, Archie replied, *"CURTIS 'HATCHETMAN' SHEPPARD. I SAW SHEPPARD HIT OPPONENTS ON THE TOP OF THE HEAD, IN THE FOREHEAD, AND KNOCK THEM OUT LIKE HE DID HAVE A HATCHET IN HIS HAND. I SAW HIM HIT A GUY IN THE HEAD AND BREAK HIS COLLARBONE.”* -@ Archie Moore interview 1998 Heart of San Diego.
It's kinda eerie listenin to Archie describe Curtis.
Apparently 'The Hatchetman' traumatized Archie.
'The Hatchetman' is the only person to ever KO Joey Maxim. Light heavyweight Joey was flattened cold in only 0:51 seconds!
Many fighters similar to Curtis Sheppard and Ted Lowry were never gonna get a title shot for obvious reasons. It happened and can never be swept under the carpet. That's why they intentionally lost so many times. But hey,, they still made a good livin ($$$) takin-dives and paddin records.
And there's more. Archie Moore said, *"MICHAEL SPINKS WOULD HAVE AN EDGE OVER EZZARD CHARLES."* --@ Rare Archie Moore Interview
Assuming both fighters met in their prime, the nod has to go to Ali (1964 - 1967). His jab was lightning fast and deadly accurate, even against fighters with comparable reach. And against Marciano, he would have enjoyed a critical 10" reach advantage. Ali was a very difficult target, "dancing" away from aggressive fighters, and slipping and ducking punches better than any heavyweight in history. He had outstanding stamina, and could take a punch with the best of them. Marciano had a "bobbing and weaving" style that was problematic for taller opponents, could deliver punishment with both arms, and had energy and determination to burn. But he was also susceptible to cuts. Additionally, Ali was an expert at tying up opponents in the ring, leaning on them, neutralizing their aggressiveness and their ability to punish on the inside. An old boxing axiom states: styles make fights. No question this would be an outstanding bout, and I am not saying that it would be impossible for Marciano to ever defeat Ali. But if Ali fought smart, kept his distance, jabbed and then tied Marciano up when he moved inside, delivered his combinations when the opportunity presented itself -- he wins by a TKO in 12.
Marciano did not bob and weave. He had a style of his own. Definitely not Bob and weave.
One thing about any contest! Talk is cheap & the action thru that process decides the result of whom will ultimately success to victory of that contest & it's conclusion!
Ali was a terrible example of a good person
You got right in your last sentence total combat
JOE LOUIS WAS 37 COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT EITHOUT TUNE UP FIGHTS IN REALITY JOE LOUIS WOULD HAVE DESTROYED ROCKY MARCIANO, PERHAPS KO,BUT DEFINITELY A TKO BECAUSE ROCKY WAS A BIG BLEEDER!.
Ali is the fastest heavy I have ever seen (I am 67). I love both guys and there is no way a young Ali loses to anyone. But Marciano could have beaten the Ali who beat Big George. Marciano would never tire out plus his punch was as good as anyone else in heavyweight history.
Patterson had faster hands than Ali, and Tyson was about equal in hand speed to Ali.
Too short all ali had to do is jab and use his legs. Larry holmes would have beat rocky too
Consider that in the December 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Rocky Marciano finishing a distant 9th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 9th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’ 5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Rocky? This is a key point. Nat Fleischer rated Marciano at # 10, Charley Rose rated him at # 9, McCallum's survey of old-timers had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 9 all time heavyweight and 67 years have passed since Rocky retired... WTF? HOW DOES LITTLE ROCKY GO FROM 9TH PLACE DURING THE EARLY 1960s TO TOP 5 IN 2023?
Because his ranking is determined by modern computer metric algorithms. Problem is this man-made program was coded to exclude "WEIGHT" from the equation. That's why tiny-165 pound 'Heavyweight' champion Bob Fitzsimmons from the 1800s is ranked ahead of giant Riddick Bowe. How's it possible 185 pound Marciano ranks higher than Fury Holmes Lewis Vitali Wladimir Foreman Bowe Tyson etcetera? Well now we all know why!!! Even though Heavyweight champions ranged from 165 (Fitzsimmons) to 328 (Valuev) pounds, ranking bodies still exclude "WEIGHT" from their metric, even though they 'Still Acknowledge Seventeen (17) Different "WEIGHT" Classes', imagine that.
"AGE" is another code omitted from the metric. The algorithms only see Marciano fought 4 Hall of Famers and went 49-0, it doesn't see Archie Moore was 41 years "old" and "light" heavyweight moonlighting at Heavyweight. That's why ALL Heavyweight rankings should be looked upon with a grain of salt. Unfortunately Rocky fanboys cling to his inaccurately coded rankings as if it were life and death.
To put the "Weight" issue into better perspective, BoxRec has officially listed these Marciano opponents as middleweights and light heavyweights:
Eddie Ross - division "Middleweight"
Harry Bilazarian - division "Middleweight"
Ezzard Charles - division "Light heavy"
Archie Moore - division "Light heavy"
Harry Matthews - division "Light heavy"
Harry Haft - division "Light heavy"
Ted Lowry - division "Light heavy"
Willis Applegate - division "Light heavy"
Bob Jefferson - division "Light heavy"
Because of little Rocky's so called "tiny-Heavyweight" era is 'Exactly' why the 'Cruiserweight' division was created during the late 70s. There comes a point the size disparity becomes a bridge too far even for very good smaller boxers. Did the Klitschko brothers have the luxury of fightin middleweights and light heavyweights? "NOPE"
Heck, even a new Bridgerweight (200 to 224lbs) division has recently been added because too many 210 lb heavyweights complained. "SIZE MATTERS" like it or not.
For everyone out there blaming today's size increase on PEDs just remember that PEDs would not have helped Rocky's extraordinarily short flyweight arms grow longer. PEDs will not automatically make someone 6' 9" with an 85" albatross reach. Also if little 185 lb Rocky was so powerful why didn't he ever break any bones? He never broke one single rib, nose, eye-socket, jaw, etc.
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."
It's no wonder Vingo said, ""I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD"" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin
"ROCKY MARCIANO REASONS FOR RETIREMENT---@THE ROCKY MARCIANO ARCHIVES" ...Everything about why he retired in his own words. Bad back, nagging wife, migraines, all False!!!
"1993/08/23 THE ROCK - SPORTS ILLUSTRATED VAULT | SI" ...Very Important article which explains exactly why he abandoned his kids and wife then left them penniless.
I don't think tyson was faster than ali...
If Marciano and Muhammed Ali fought ten times, I cannot see either fighter winning all ten times. Marciano was the best for his time (I believe). But I don't know how he would have fared against Liston (who looked incredibly strong) and a younger Ali.
Liston had a glass chin and no heart. He had neither the mental or emotional stamina to withstand the unstoppable Marciano will to win.
Exept lois no commentary has ever put marciano over ali anyone can go through and see for himself
Muhammad Ali was very fast and quick he might have stayed away from Marciano won on points Marciano probably would have won but you got to remember Rocky Marciano never fought Joe Louis and his prime and Joe Louis would have been in his prime been a lot better fight
Proof Joe Louis didn't not know how good Muhammad Ali truly was.
Rocky would have won
Marciano's current ranking has a lot to do with two things: his suspicious undefeated record and his skin colour.
Cassius Clay was very vulnerable to powerful punchers with stamina that could throw the left hook. Marciano would give him all kinds of trouble. Clay's only chance would be to win by Rocky being cut. In modern times where they practically put dresses on boxers, advantage Clay. Back in the 50's. Marciano all the way.
Vulnerable took all prime foremans hit and ko him
@@wahabbaig9830 Clay didn't knock out Foreman to sleep. He was beyond exhaustion. It's called a technical knockout. Rocky could go 40 rounds if needed. The longer the fight went on the more beat up his opponent would be and the stronger Marciano would get.
@@rem1762 why not 50 rounds no end to imagination
@@wahabbaig9830 If Clay did the rope a dope with Marciano which he wouldn't do, he would get destroyed. Neither would he do it with prime Tyson nor prime Joe Louis.
@@rem1762 just go through all commentries on ranking tilldate you wont find marciano above ali anywhere exept jou louis opinion lets close debate we can all have our opinions
Joe Louis at the time did not know how well Ali could take a punch. and Ali was one of the few men who could match Marciano's stamina as well. Think of Jersey Joe Walcott, fought very similar to Ali but did not have his punch resistance or stamina. Ali would have made it the last two rounds and got the points win that Walcott failed to imho.
Ali did not have Marciano's stamina, not even close!
Louis picked Liston over Clay also.
In the gym and Mina was there watching list and work out list and start getting mouthy Rocky said give me the gloves. Let’s get get it on list managers ran him out of that so fast as far as I could get from they said are you crazy if he hits you, you gotta knock your head back to Arkansas, so no matter how big it is have lots of respect for Marciano
so Louis thinks Marciano would beat Ali,gave good reasons, and the video ends with maybe Ali would beat Marciano.What is this crap.
This isn't even a contest. Ali was 5 inches taller, 10 inch reach advantage and 30lbs heavier, he beat more all time great heavyweights than any boxer in history, Liston, Foreman and Frazier would've beaten Marciano. 49-0 looks great until you look closely at the 49, you'd struggle to find one top genuine heavyweight opponent in their prime.Frazier would've beaten every single one of Marciano's opponents. Marciano was easy to hit, prone to cuts and had to get really close to be effective, styles make fights, Ali would've cut him to pieces, and Marciano's not knocking him out, because nobody ever did, including many boxers who hit harder than Marciano.
Louis was hardly ever objective when it came to Ali (R). I can hardly think of a single time that he picked Ali to win in an epic fight. I believe it's quite apparent that he resented Ali. Ali got him back though by verbally putting him on blast like he did Terrell and Patterson
A prime Muhammed Ali would beat any heavyweight from the era of his predecessors! 👍🏻
Louis didn't say Terrel would have won but that there were no many good boxers around Clay so among them Terrel was probably the best and would only stand a chance against Clay.
At 212 lbs to 220 lbs, in his prime and way past his prime, Ali bested every hard-hitting juggernaut (Liston, Bonavena, Quarry, Lyle, Shavers) and taller rivals in his time (Foreman, Terrell, Big Cat Cleveland Williams), and fought everyone of them even as heavy as 256 lbs (Buster Mathis)…
He would have toyed the 186 lb Marciano like he toyed Floyd Patterson and would have knocked him out
I would put my money on Ali if they only fought one round lol
I agree
49 Fights and he couldn't be KOd by a lucky punch ?! What does that say about his jaw/head ? Because of his unique training ( Jogging 10 miles a day IN COMBAT BOOTS . Hitting a 250lb.bag for hours) he could punch relentlessly for 20 rounds !! He would go toe to toe with anyone ..in any era ! Thats just the way it is !
😂😂😂😂😂😂ROCKY
Both Ali and Marciano were very hard to hit and even harder to hurt, so any fight would at least get close to going the distance. But stylistically, Ali focused too much on going to the head while Rocky loved getting too low to hit and focusing on the body.
During sparring, Rocky had Ali down for 15 minutes with a rib shot, so I ultimately think Rocky could give more punishment as well as take more, even though Ali was fast and sharp enough to hit more and get hit less.
How much rhetoric and how many exaggerations on Marciano. It's not very difficult to remain unbeaten for only 3 years. How many boxers remained unbeaten for a longer period? Many, among many others. Ali and Louis, two giants compared to Marciano, remained at the top respectively for 14 and 12 years, an eternity. The first even had to stand still for 3 years, an eternity for a boxer. Marciano had the prudence to quit early. Just after 3 years. So he avoided being severely punished by a younger and stronger boxer as has always happened in the history of boxing. A fact more than certain if he had continued to fight for a few more years because he was a boxer without technique, crude, slow and very predictable in his movements.
Archie Moore went on a 21 fight streak before he faced Rocky Marciano. Moore's numbers may not lie, but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion. So let's examine those 21 opponents (not in order).
Bobo Olson 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Clinton Bacon 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Harold Johnson 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Harold Johnson (twice) 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Joey Maxim 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Joey Maxim (twice) 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Joey Maxim (thrice) 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Dogomar Martinez 175 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Sonny Andrews 177 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Rinaldo Ansaloni 178 lb WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Jimmy Slade 180 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Bob Dunlap 180 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Clarence Henry 184 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Toxie Hall 188 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Bert Whitehurst 186 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Frank Buford 199 lbs had a career record 22 wins 32 losses (F-level) with (two) 2% KOs
Al Spaulding 210 lbs had a career 25 wins 27 losses (F-level) with an abysmal 24% KOs
Leonard Dugan 209 lbs had a career 6 wins 2 losses (D-level) with an abysmal 25% KOs
Bob Baker 209 lbs had a career 51 wins 16 losses (D-level) with an abysmal 29% KOs
Nino Valdes 209 lbs had a career 48 wins 18 losses (D-level) with a low-power 51% KOs
Nino Valdes 209 lbs (twice)
Consider that in the Dec. 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano finishing a distant 7th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 7th in 1962 how does he propel to today's top 3, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Marciano? This is a key point. Nat Fleischer rated Marciano at # 10, Charley Rose rated him at # 8, McCallum's survey of old-timers had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 7 all time heavyweight and 67 years (3-generations) have passed since Rocky retired as champion.
40 Marciano opponents: We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using US school grades A, B, C, D, and F.
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level)
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs (F-level)
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs (D-level)
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs (D-level)
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs (D-level)
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs (D-level)
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs (F-level)
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs (F-level)
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs (F-level)
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs (D-level)
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (D to F-level)
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs (D-level)
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs (F-level)
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs (F-level)
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs (D to F-level)
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs (D to F-level)
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (D-level)
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (D-level)
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs (D-level)
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs (D to F-level)
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs (F-level)
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs (D-level)
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs (D-level)
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs (D-level)
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs (D-level)
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs (D-level)
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-level resume. Problem is he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. I thought this was the Heavyweight division? Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?
Even Marciano's best 3 opponents; Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0...D AND F-LEVEL HOMELESS WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine
37 LaStarza opponents: We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using US school grades A, B, C, D, and F. Marciano 183 lbs 25-0 vs. LaStarza 187 lbs 37-0. Their fight was officially called a draw then later changed to a Split Decision. Jessie Abramson of the New York Daily Herald said, "it was condemned around ringside as a miscarriage of justice." Anyhow here's LaStarza's first 37 D and F-level opponents:
#37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs (C-level). Brian's career record looks okay until ya see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians.
Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs (F-level)
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs (D-level)
Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs 23% (D-level)
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs (D-level)
Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs (D-level)
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs (D-level)
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (D-level)
Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs (D-level)
Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs (C-minus level)
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (D-level)
Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs (D-level)
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (D-level)
Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs (F-level)
Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level)
Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs (D-level)
Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs (D-level)
Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs (D-level)
Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs (F-level)
Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs (D-level)
Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs (F-level)
Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs (D-level)
Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs (F-level)
Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs (F-level)
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs (D-level)
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs (F-level)
Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs (F-level)
Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs (F-level)
Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
Promoters lookin for a way to get their prizefighters a big payoff will first invest thousands of dollars in padding his numbers against truly horrendous opponents. A guy who’s undefeated at 37-0, for example, might not be any better than a more seasoned boxer with a lousy record--The Ring Magazine
I've studied King Fury, Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, Klitschko brothers, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Ike Ibeabuchi etcetera and little Marciano's division was truly horrendous and dreadfully awful.
I read Uncle Tom. Tom is the hero of the book, escapes to get his family to Canada and eventually sacrifices his life...
In their primes both Marciano and Louis knock out Ali.
we'll never know for sure, louis was too static and predictable,Ali would have kicked his ass,as for Marciano, he would have been battered in 8/10 rounds, possibly on cuts and serious facial disfigurement , at his Peak in 1967 just before his licence was took away, HE WAS UNBEATABLE
@@sollykhan2385 l think you've been rope a doped once too many times lol
@@johnbarone8948 me,,,rope a Doped,,nahh,,Never,,LOL, 🤣
We'll never know for sure, but I highly doubt it. Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, Cleveland Williams, Earnie Shavers and George Foreman couldn't stop Ali. All huge punchers and in the Ring record books 100 greatest punchers of all time in 2003.
@@shahzadayub7191 The Liston Clay fight was rigged.
Size has nothing to do in a fight, Rocky was hard, Ali was tough, a prime frazier beat Ali, Cooper ko"d Ali, Norton licked ali, slinks beat Ali, Ali was good but rocky was great
your wrong, size is almost everything in boxing. I do favor marciano over Ali however
@@shawnjones7822 why favour Marciano? I he's smaller, slower, lighter, shorter reach, if size is almost everything then why choose the smaller man, surely its the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog
@@jondobbie I said size is pretty much everything...MEANING it can work for you or against you, marciano's was able to turn his size into an advantage. I favour marciano because he was a dog, Ali was too, but the power and conditioning of marciano would result in a late round knockout, goodnight Ali
@@shawnjones7822 [[[[[ 🏋️""SIZE-MATTERS""🏋️ ]]]]]
NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING HAS A 190 LB MAN BEAT AN ELITE SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION🥊
@@shawnjones7822 For pro fighters, even a relatively small difference in weight can lead to a huge advantage. Weight classes eliminate this kind of disparity, ensuring that skill remains the most important factor in determining the victor. With fewer weight classes, a smaller boxer would have poor odds of ever becoming a champion, no matter their skill. Furthermore, weight classes are designed with boxer's safety in mind. In a mismatched fight, the smaller opponent stands a much greater risk of suffering a serious injury. Simply put, boxing is dangerous enough already without pitting smaller fighters against physically larger opponents.
Sportscasting | Pure Sports
Why Are There So Many Boxing Weight Classes?
by Rick Thomas | Published on April 14, 2020
[[[[[ 🏋️""SIZE-MATTERS""🏋️ ]]]]]
NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING HAS A 190 LB MAN BEAT AN ELITE SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION🥊
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
2:37 - 2:39, save us the sily cliches mate! Blows which could level mountains?? Maybe mountains of rice or wheat flour.
The era of lois was not as great as the Ali era skill and size
Marciano was too small, slow and hittable to beat Ali, Frazier, Liston or Foreman who hit like a bear without claws.
Ali said Rocky was better than Frazier to piss Frazier off ,this all takes place when Ali was feuding with Joe.I like Rocky but I doubt he was any better than Frazier and I would not be surprised if Ali knocks him out He was actually a sharp puncher he stoped most guys who brought the fight to him and made him fight .no- way Rocky knocks out Ali he was never stoped .
Well said
Joe Louis comes from that old school hateration club stop, he must be crazy stopped Ali within six rounds he's just a great old dummy, I mean every time Muhammad Ali fought if you wanted to win just go for the opposite guy that Joe went for
this is rubbish...ali at 23 would have beaten anybody including dempsey louis and Marciano who would have spent the whole fight punching air.
Marciano was the most relentless intense fighter there as ever been,...Ali was arguably the fastest most skilled heavy weight there's ever been,....in my opinion the tough nonstop swarming brawling style of rocky would have worn Ali down, it would have been a tough fight, and remember Marciano outfought and outlasted everyone who.stepped into.ring the ring with him.....he'll of a fighter who refused to lose at all cost .....rocky kos Ali in 10th round...
LOL 😆
I don't read too much into Louis's take on Marciano and Ali.
Louis fought at a time, after Jack Johnson, when he wasn't allowed to speak like Ali.
After fighting a white guy, he wasn't allowed to gloat, stand over a fallen opponent, raise his arms, it was strictly business.
After fighting and KOing a white guy, in a few rounds, he would say "I fought a very tough man tonight I was lucky". While the white guy was in hospital getting his face sewn back on and his head x-rayed.
Like in the Braddock doco someone said about Louis "there was no luck involved he nearly killed him".
I have no doubt Ali would beat Marciano by UD or KO.
Ali would of belted the living shit out of those two no contest he was way too fast for them
Ali never had a convincing win over a top contender after exile ( not counting the rope-a-dope trick over Foreman) and before exile beat nobody that wasn't hurt (Patterson, Williams, Liston) or fixed (Liston, Foley). Ali was hardly touched in the ring until Frazier and Norton ended the myth of the Greatest, ending up with Parkinson's trying to prove to the world that he could take a punch long after his reflexes were gone. Easily the most tragic figure in sports history.
@@albanyorganics3030 Marciano never had a convincing win his entire career against a genuine topnotch Heavyweight. You'll degrade anybody and everybody at little Rocky's expense. Marciano's tiny era was horseshit.
@@albanyorganics3030 🌸Combined, Walcott, Charles, Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Had little Rocky never existed nobody would be talking about Walcott, Charles, Moore. Truth is Marciano fans could careless about Walcott, Charles, Moore otherwise they would never denigrate and belittle other black fighters such as Ali, Liston, Holmes, Tyson, and Wilder. I've studied Marciano extensively for one year and it just dawned on me that is exactly what's happening. Rocky fans always besmirch black fighters EXCEPT for Walcott, Charles, Moore. I've witnessed it hundreds of times, pure Hate for Liston, Holmes, Tyson, yet pure Love for Walcott, Charles,
@@albanyorganics3030 To put the "Weight" issue into better perspective, BoxRec has officially listed these Marciano opponents as middleweights and light heavyweights:
Eddie Ross - division "Middleweight"
Harry Bilazarian - division "Middleweight"
Ezzard Charles - division "Light heavy"
Archie Moore - division "Light heavy"
Harry Matthews - division "Light heavy"
Harry Haft - division "Light heavy"
Ted Lowry - division "Light heavy"
Willis Applegate - division "Light heavy"
Bob Jefferson - division "Light heavy"
Because of little Rocky's so called "tiny-Heavyweight" era is 'Exactly' why the 'Cruiserweight' division was created during the late 70s. There comes a point the size disparity becomes a bridge too far even for very good smaller boxers. Did the Klitschko brothers have the luxury of fightin middleweights and light heavyweights? "NOPE"
Heck, even a new Bridgerweight (200 to 224lbs) division has recently been added because too many 210 lb heavyweights complained. "SIZE MATTERS" like it or not.
For everyone out there blaming today's size increase on PEDs just remember that PEDs would not have helped Rocky's extraordinarily short flyweight arms grow longer. PEDs will not automatically make someone 6' 9" with an 85" albatross reach. Also if little 185 lb Rocky was so powerful why didn't he ever break any bones? He never broke one single rib, nose, eye-socket, jaw, etc.
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."
It's no wonder Vingo said, ""I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD"" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin
"ROCKY MARCIANO REASONS FOR RETIREMENT---@THE ROCKY MARCIANO ARCHIVES" ...Everything about why he retired in his own words. Bad back, nagging wife, migraines, all False!!!
"1993/08/23 THE ROCK - SPORTS ILLUSTRATED VAULT | SI" ...Very Important article which explains exactly why he abandoned his kids and wife then left them penniless.
@@albanyorganics3030 Consider that in the December 1962 Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts it was Jack Dempsey that was rated the # 1 Heavyweight of all time with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Rocky Marciano finishing a distant 9th, way behind Dempsey. If he was considered 9th in 1962 how does he propel to the top 5, when since then we have had Muhammad Ali who faced much tougher competition, the big power hitting George Foreman, Larry Holmes who made 20 title defenses, the bigger, faster and more powerful Mike Tyson, and the giant Lennox Lewis who at 6’ 5” 245 pounds would enjoy a 60 pound weight advantage over Rocky? This is a key point. Nat Fleischer rated Marciano at # 10, Charley Rose rated him at # 9, McCallum's survey of old-timers had him at # 9. No major historian who saw Maricano in their lifetime thought he was a top 9 all time heavyweight and 67 years have passed since Rocky retired... WTF? HOW DOES LITTLE ROCKY GO FROM 9TH PLACE DURING THE EARLY 1960s TO TOP 5 IN 2023?
Because his ranking is determined by modern computer metric algorithms. Problem is this man-made program was coded to exclude "WEIGHT" from the equation. That's why tiny-165 pound 'Heavyweight' champion Bob Fitzsimmons from the 1800s is ranked ahead of giant Riddick Bowe. How's it possible 185 pound Marciano ranks higher than Fury Holmes Lewis Vitali Wladimir Foreman Bowe Tyson etcetera? Well now we all know why!!! Even though Heavyweight champions ranged from 165 (Fitzsimmons) to 328 (Valuev) pounds, ranking bodies still exclude "WEIGHT" from their metric, even though they 'Still Acknowledge Seventeen (17) Different "WEIGHT" Classes', imagine that.
"AGE" is another code omitted from the metric. The algorithms only see Marciano fought 4 Hall of Famers and went 49-0, it doesn't see Archie Moore was 41 years "old" and "light" heavyweight moonlighting at Heavyweight. That's why ALL Heavyweight rankings should be looked upon with a grain of salt. Unfortunately Rocky fanboys cling to his inaccurately coded rankings as if it were life and death.
If Ali and the rock had met in there prime Ali is cleraly winer he has hight atvantage reach atvantage an the weight in his favor no contest