Looks are subjective for all of us. I absolutely love, love, love the look of this whereas I feel the complete opposite towards the KTM Adventure. And a GS is a GS. Good on Harley for stepping outside of their comfort zone and giving us their take on what an adventure bike should be.
I don't know what Mrs Flyer put in your morning tea but I cant ever remember see you chucking any bike around like this before!!! I think you love it???
You are a star Sir, doing a test on something I would never even consider, thank you for showing us HD are 'possible' now! If you think the switch-gear is JCB, then that headlight is definitely Ferguson tractor! lol
Great review Andy. I really love the look of the bike so definitely a subjective opinion. I think it’s so different that it breaks the rules of what bike should look like and that what I happen to like about it. As Henry ford said if I had ask people what they wanted the would have asked me to build a faster horse 😁 Great review as always mate 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Tip with the side stand & ARH. Get on the bike then bring the side stand up 'before' turning on the ignition. Same thing works in reverse at a stop, power off, little bounce on the rear to add preload and down pops the stand. You can also adjust the timing of the ARH activating within the systems. Best colour is Deadwood Green, now discontinued sadly... Great bike with lots of character and surprising performance.
I’m glad you finally got to ride one. The first edition did not have a quick shifter and you are the first reviewer I have seen to test the H-D quick shifter. I am neutral on the looks of the bike and loved the way it rode when my local dealer sent a demo for us to ride. It is the one Harley I would buy and I just must. I would want one with just a soft top bag because I am not sure if my back would hold up on a long tour.
When this bike came out, I shared your opinion about its looks. As time has passed, I've learned how incredibly capable this machine is I have become quite less critical about its looks. One of Harley's most impressive technological offerings, a heck of a motorbike. Still, the battery location makes me crazy.
BMW’s GS is certainly no looker either however seems to have acquired a cult following due to function over form. Perhaps the HD will start to sell if they persevere long enough and get it recognized via major events etc.
You are actually right about the Marwin-bit in the Pan Am's face. I used to call it the look of a depressed storm trooper. And yes, from the sides, it does look okay. And obviously it _is_ a great bike, it's just that front. I wonder if that ride height reduction is really a reliable feature, though. This one failing might be a bit of a bummer, and it's always those electronic gimmicks that bite the dust first.
Nice one Andy, the Marvin-Electrolux is spot on🤣Totally with you on the looks of the Pan America. I ordered another quirky Harley (ex-Harley?) last week - the Livewire One - and should be taking delivery next week😎
I own this motorcycle and I absolutely love mine. Love the looks think looks different than other bikes and it rides great. The right choice for me. Army green color.
After you reviewed the V85 "duckface", I ended up buying one. I love it to pieces, and think it looks marvelous. Funnily enough, I like the look of the Pan Am also. Next bike, maybe? 😁 I should add that the Pan Am was the best selling over 600cc ADV bike in 2021 in US/Canada, though sales tapered off in subsequent years. Early bikes had reliability issues, but recent ones seem to have it ironed out, for the most part. Love the review in any event. They always make for a great Saturday morning.
From Triumph web page " A new Active Preload Reduction has been developed to reduce the rear suspension preload as the Tiger 1200 slows, allowing the seat heights to be reduced". I assume the 1300 GS also comes with the same feature. HD should be recognized for setting new standards 👌
Yeah I'd have that but the electronic suspension. A friend has an FJR13 Yamaha. The rear shock failed at around 20k miles. Yamaha want £3200 for a replacement unit! Now I know it's a different brand and others may be ok but it's something to be aware of .He went the aftermarket route at one third the cost but now has redundant switchgear. As long as electric units can be refurbished when required then all is well but it is really expensive to replace.
Imo the benchmark is always the GS, and so it's hard to justify choosing the Harley because it's about 2k more without any tangible advantages. Personally I'd take the gs and put the savings towards a couple of trips. I can see why someone would choose a KTM or Tiger over a gs because of the performance characteristics, or a Africa Twin on price and reliability, but I think the only reason you'd pick the Harley is brand loyalty. That's the wonderful thing about the great choice of bikes we have these days though. The best it's ever been in my opinion.
In Australia it’s cheaper than GS when the beemer is optioned to get same equipment as standard on Pan Am. Pan Am has more horsepower and is close on torque but the game changer is the adaptive ride height
In Canada, the Pan Am Special is about $4-5k cheaper than a GS. BMW asks a premium price here, so you see few of them on the road. I priced a new 1250 GSA here and it was $36k out the door, just too much, lovely machine though. Currently looking at a V Strom 1050, HD Pan Am, and the Yamaha Super Tenere which is still available new here. The Yamaha unfortunately is very dated.
Fantastic review mate , I test road one ☝️ around 6 months ago in Australia both on and off road , I do love the lowering thing BUT agree with you only looks a grandmother would love 😂😂😂
I really like this bike. I don’t think the white and yellow is the best colour, but HD should be applauded for stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to reach a new market. I like the looks, but then I really don’t like the drop style headlights on new style naked bikes, think they look terrible! But plenty of others love them… Great review, as always, thanks.
I love everything about my '22 HD PAS. I opted for the Sportbags instead of the boxes. My only complaint...I wish the heated grips got hotter. The looks...it may be that color, I prefer it in the black or the gray only myself. It's comfortable, goes like stink and can go on long trips, on pavement or dirt roads. Ride safe!
Fabulous review Andy.. im with you on the looks, being a die hard Harley fanboy, im prepared to give all their bikes a positive consideration, ill always take the trouble to get my head behind their thinking and see their direction on a design... but i just can't on this.. Like you, that front end is just not for me.. somehow reminds me of my Dad's Allegro Vanden Plas... im sure if they offered it in beige with 'tan' seats, they'd sell even more to the Werther's Original fraternity.. But it's not their first Visual Faux Pas.. check out the 1970 Super Glide Boat Tail. Truly comical..! have a great weekend chap, and lets catch up soon. D&Px
I’ve recently owned a couple of Harley cruisers and when I was looking to add an adventure/tourer bike to the stable, I considered the Panamerica. Considering it’s such a huge departure from HD’s traditional offerings, I think they’ve done a pretty good job. However, in the end, I went with an R1250GS for the looks and the shaft drive. The question is, who did the better job of trying to break into another sector? HD with Panamerica? Or BMW with the R18?
I must be the only one who likes the look of this bike! 🤣 I like that big headlight and how it looks so different from all the other typical adventure bikes
I find myself quite taken with the looks of this bike. I suppose its a different scenario when it's sitting in your own garage. The functionality of it has endeared to me the appearance of it. Excellent video sir.
I think yellow isn’t the best colour I think it looks better in the darker colours. Especially in the grey or the army green. You forgot to mention the seat is adjustable. If you take it off, it has two positions, high and low, the spotlight switchgear is an optional extra, so most of the bikes don’t have that. I test drove one in the summer and thoroughly loved It, I would like one, but they are above my price range currently but would be a possible future Bike for me.
Do people really put their helmets inside panniers ? Usually mine are stuffed with items and I bring the helmet with me inside or hang it off the bike somewhere....
Nice review and very helpful for a prospective future owner of a Pan America, maybe in 2024 - if Harley can fix a couple of things like the side stand and adding backlighted control switches. (I personally have always fancied the looks of the classic Electrolux vacuum cleaner. So this machine's front-end appearnce doesn't bother me.)
I rode the all black Pan America. In black it doesn't accentuate the shark front. It was very comfortable, even 2 up. Good power and torque. Honestly, I have the Ducati multistrada touring s with all the packages, and I might have chosen this one instead.
I agree. I think the bluff styling suits the genre. And I’ve never liked the beaks on many of the other adventure bikes. The suspension was a clever trick, but I see Triumph have just added a similar system to the Tiger 1200.
My dealer had one of these taken In PX, they tried everywhere to move it on and no-one wanted it... even the two local Harley dealers.! So it would be interesting to know the sales figures and secondhand figures in sales and prices.. My local HD dealer just has one which is the demo bike, nothing in the show room. Never seen one on the road either.
That stand is only an issue on the models with ARh because once it lowers down, that causes you to tilt the bike to the right in order to engage the stand. You can try locking the ARH in high position and check and you would not face such an issue.
I have a friend that has this bike and he’s had a few problems. Mostly around the dealer support when he has a problem. I rode this bike at an adventure rally and was very impresses. I have a 2021 R1250GSA so I have no reason to change
Aesthetics are a funny thing, I fell in love with the look of this bike the first time I saw it. I honestly believe HD have created a bit of a classic-to-be with the Pan Am.
Great review Andy. I quite like the looks of the Harley. Ive never really liked the angry bird look of the multi strada or the duck beak on the s1000xr. (although they are both great bikes) When I make the move to an adventure bike I'll be testing this Harley for sure...
I own a Sportster S with the Revolution Max engine and the same electronics package as the Pan America. The Revolution Max engine a really good, and whilst Harley have built water cooled v-twins before, this new generation of engines is a big step forward.
Great review. Agree with you on the looks and, as an ex-Harley rider myself, pleasantly surprised at what you say about the handling quality and technology. Will stick to my S1000XR though.
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I agree with you that the suspension is quite good on the road, but off-road it's brutal. I took it for a demo ride during Adventure Bike Festival, and compared to my Tiger 900 Rally Pro this Harley had a wrist and ankle shattering ride off-road. Then again, most of the people that buy ADV bikes only use it on a motorway, so maybe that's fine for them 🤷♂
Like you, I noticed the high, slightly rear-set foot peg position. Quite surprising on what is supposed to be an adventure-touring bike. The looks I could get used to, but not the foot position!
Most bikes in this segment are blessed with looks that only their mother could love. I quite like this one but I do think it’s quite colour sensitive, H-D do a lovely dark green that really suits it.
Great review, thanks. I'm with you on the front end, I think it would look better without the headlight surround and just have a rectangular headlight, like my old xj750 seca did back in the 80's.
When they first came out I absolutely hated the looks of them. But when you look at is as a rugged, go anywhere, tractor/jcb kind of thing, it kind of starts to look half decent.
It looks better in total black. The orange tank etc does not flatter the contours of the bike. I looked at one but bought the Ducati Multistrada V2S instead.
Good review as usual. I too am not a fan of the look of the front end (deal breaker for me), the sound, and the flat square windscreen. Your review also showed another thing I would hate and that is the side stand - that apparent "flex" after it does make contact is unnerving and unnecessary. Glad to see HD taking the step in the right direction and making something other than their "cruisers" and for all my dislikes I think that this bike is an excellent first effort, as there are many things to like about the bike otherwise.
When I first saw the images of the Pan America I thought it had been styled by Lego ! But it is growing on me and I think in all black it looks better.
For the price I don't like that the hard luggage isn't soft lined! CFmoto 800 has soft lined luggage and that costs less than 10k on the road! Another great review 👏
That’s exactly what I noticed when I rode it when Launched a lot of heat of that v twin when you came to a stop. Ouch was 14k then big jump. I actually think it looks really nice different and yes a surprising chassis and engine. If I ever went down the adventure route would probably become a GS rebel 😅
HD have pulled out all the stops and built an excellent bike however the HD Adventure bike does not seem to have sold too well. Definitely not a looker ( neither is the GS for that matter) especially in yellow……black or grey seems to suit it better. Big discount deals available at main dealers if you’re in the market for one. Thanks for the review Andy 👍
Hasn’t sold well here stateside, although there are a lot of used ones for sale. A lot of issues and feels cheaply made. Too much poor quality plastic. Once the novelty and brand loyalty wore off they started popping up for sale used all over.
Thank you Mr. Flyer. I would never have guessed this was a "Harley" if one passed me in the street. I laughed out aloud at your comparison to a mix of Marvin (Hitchhiker's Guide) and an Electrolux upright. I think it's nice to see HD trying new ideas, although this bike is even less likely to be ridden by me than most of their others for many reasons. I still can't seem to find anything remotely likely to prize me from my "Striple" - even other Triumphs. I appreciate your review, as usual almost like having tried one without the effort lol. Keep riding and enjoying and stay safe. :>)
My only issue with the rev max engine is that I think it looks like a big molded plastic cover. The panniers are also identical to the ones on my Vstrom. No idea who made them, but they're obviously banging them out en masse.
Great review 👍 But what were they thinking with that front end ? It just looks like the front light of an old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner. Surely HD could have come up with something better looking for this model....
Re the side stand Motech do a pad for the stand which inspires a lot more confidence especially when parked on grass. Pricey but does the job extremely well.
@TheMissendenFlyer Sorry, my mistake. I started a comment near the end of the Mam Journals, (Michael Mam), your vlog started and the message went to you!!
The problems I have with the Pan Am is that I want one but cant justify spending the money on one. That and they are still so new and the fact that it's a Harley makes finding a cheaper used one difficult
Spokes are the same as a BMW 1150gs I had back in the day!... Nothing wrong with chain drive, the only shaft drive I'd have these days would have Honda stamped on it! As you say the looks aren't for everyone, still KTM Adventure for me.
Agreed. I'd love to see it on this this motor or even a slightly bigger version of it set up something like a Street Glide or Low Rider ST or Sport Glide. Power to weight could easily beat the big tourers plus braking & handling much better with the lighter platform. I'd always thought it a shame Harley didn't do something similar with the V Rod motor and now I'm hoping they'll eventually get around to it with this one. Imagine this platform in battle of the baggers...
I don’t believe H-D has ever made a bike with shaft drive. So, options would be chain or rubber belt, the latter would be terrible for ADV due to rocks or debris fouling the rear belt pulley.
You have to applaud Harley for doing something different. Apart from the front I think it looks ok. Perhaps an opportunity for an aftermarket manufacturer to bring out a better looking fairing.
Hi missendenflyer! Is there any chance in the future to be able to do a retro review of the honda silverwing interstate? I understand how difficult that would be to source one as they're rare as diamonds these days but I'd thoroughly appreciate it if you did as it's probably the closest I will ever get
Clean design design bike. The front light. It works. Those wheels, much same as our GS BMW, the bag lock. I remember them well with key in pocket looking in rearview mirror watching the bag explode when the car hit it when it fell off. Lock them every time. Good engine so far. A few friends have these and they are great for gravel roads and good trails. Not meant for hardcore dirt although a few have road the heck out of them without issue. That's the way mirrors used to be. Simple, don't oil them. All black or dark grey works best. It blends in better. A sow with lipstick. Do a Sargent seat. You have the premium model. Moto Guzzi, my Benelli 750 SEI and most all twin BMW's, /6 and 7 have the same style sidestand. Easy to forget and leave down in the old days. Doing wheelies on my Benelli and looked, yeap, it was down. A one legged ariel retraction. So glad to get it pulled up. Many were like that. You have to put them down then rock the bike back to make it take a set. Seems that could be a one size fits all for the model with out the lowering parking suspension. Don't know that for sure. Try a new Sportster sometime. Same engine all different riding style and design. Good review. Accurate in scope.
In the U.S. there is this oddity that many traditional Harley Davidson loyalists are angry HD built an adventure motorcycle, and they refuse to waive to anyone on a Pan America or to otherwise accept them into the HD tribe. As an American who doesn't get the whole HD thing, this is one more head-scratcher. As for the looks, the PA's looks have grown on me. I prefer its decidedly masculine lines to the GS's beak and transformer looks. That said, the GS is far more refined and it has a shaft drive, which makes long-distance touring much easier. I would be happy riding a PA, and I am impressed with HD's effort here, but when it comes time to put down my own money I'll take a GS(A).
Looks like a handsome chunk of Americana to me. I like it all except for the chain drive. I'm done with chains, what's the point when shaft drive is so good? Worst s/stand I ever had was on an Aprilia Falco, found the bike on its side several times. In the end I just started leaning it against walls.
Just thought I spotted something there - is that the bike's rectifier poking out of the bash plate at the front? With that plus the stressed member engine I'm thinking this isn't a serious off-road machine so much as a bike that can cope with a gravel/dirt track *if you have to*, like, you've come 100 miles down this road in the Rockies, and the asphalt runs out, you know you got to get through to where it's OK again... Compare with the Africa Twin & BMW GS which can both ford rivers in flood & deal with big rocks given a decent aftermarket bash plate & crash bars. Looks like a lovely tourer though with ADV styling.
Chief... 2 weeks riding my new MT 09 sp and i am blown away ... i will stick to Japan when it comes to motorcycles! And for HD ... "old bikes new prices" and it seems with this one they are late to the party !
I have had a test ride on one of these and they are nice to ride and a quick bike. My only issue was the price for an unknown/new bike in this market place. The looks didn’t bother me too much as I don’t think adventure bikes are particularly good looking anyway, the thing on looks for me was the left hand side of the engine was messy.
A review well up to your usual high standards, Andy - I feel I can trust you on your honest assessment of bikes you try out, including this one. Those spoked wheels with spokes to the outside of the rims so allowing tubeless tyres, featured way back in 2003 (and no doubt earlier than that) on my BMW R1150GS. The looks are hideous. Not a bike I could live with on that point alone. I know (and as you say) looks are subjective, but pig ugly is pig ugly. Even it's mother would not say it's a looker. The mirrors with ball joints are a bit like bar-ends I've had in that respect, including the tensioning screws. Why aren't self-cancelling indicators standard on all bikes? How many accidents would that preclude? My R9T had them, but disappointingly my Speedmaster doesn't. Nice to see HD have effective ones on this bike. HD need to sort out the looks and the transmission (shaft or maybe belt) and it would be a great bike. Cheers Vince
I agree with you about the looks. The tacho looks almost imvisible - is this just the camera? The sidestand doesn't look beefy enough for a 125, let alone a really heavy bike. Switchgear looks gross.
I’ll tell you what I think of this bike! That it’s not for me. But I’m glad it’s out there, trying something different and unique to see on the road. Each to their own! Side stand and panniers can all be swapped to third party anyway, so no worries there for me.
Only it’s mum will love it from the front but I love the look of the engine. I could be tempted with a second hand one for something different. I like the little touches such as mirrors, screen adjustment that look well thought out. Interstate to see if HD continue with this line or go back to tried and trusted. Yes the side stand would stop me buying it too
Comprehensive review.. I like it... but i do have a tendency for square boxy vehicles (Discovery). It looks the part and the lowering feature is of great interest as i have 29 inch inside leg at 5ft 10in (How did a shorty end up with 32 inch I/L)🤔😂 In my opinion all V engines give off a lot of heat and was expecting your comment earlier in the video but you got there in the end😂
I reckon Harley should stick to streamlined baggers with aerodynamic panniers & batwing handlebar fairings . I know ADV type bikes are never the prettiest creations ,but that Pan American front end looks like it was created for an episode of Thunderbirds . It makes the wacky headlight on my little V strom look respectable . Also never did get those 3 square metal boxes ,they stick out well too far no aerodynamic qualities ,& still opened easily by thieves in seconds. Also when it comes to adventure bikes the less tech the better & the less to break down in the middle of nowhere . This bike is more for those who blat down motorways & stay in hotels & make sure they are never too far from a Harley dealer, it sells the image of adventure more than really intending to deliver a machine that is really suitable for the job . I give you the 👍 for the review not the bike .
Andy I was wondering when you were going to get around to this, but today is the day? I’ve seen quite a few Pan America’s but not one in that particular colour scheme. The slate grey and black and black and bronze look a lot better and dual round not square headlights would’ve been much better, as per early 80’s Tour fairing. The side view engine looks amazing and I’ve not heard anybody complain about the performance on the streets and highway and it would be suitable for agricultural roads. It’s not a trail mule but definitely a Harley Ferguson.
The styling was influenced by the "Bender" character in "Futurama". And for chrissake, Harley: Paint the damned headlight fairing to match the tank, so it doesn't look like someone threw on an aftermarket part, and just left it coated with beige primer!
Reminds me in a way of the V Rod and we all know that happened to that, but I hope it continues even if it's just to keep the competition on their toes with other new innovations. Hats off to them for trying but those looks just don't do it for me or I suspect most riders looking to get an ADV bike. It would be interesting to know how many they've sold and if those were to existing HD customers but I guess that would be a little too commercially sensitive. I do like the fact they've put a hugger on to protect the rear shock but no shaft drive is a minus for me and it looks like they've done the usual HD thing and put the regulator right in the firing line from all the stones and water coming off the front wheel, why as no one else does.
@@DJPTEXAS Really, I guess that's not surprising though here in the UK I've never seen one on the road only time I've seen one in the flesh is at the annual Bike show. The GSA and GS are king here in the large adventure class, being the top sellers each month more or less since the LC model came out in 2013 and even with the 1300 due out soon it still tops the sales charts. No doubt the chiefs at HD are rightly pleased with their sales of the Pan America your side of the pond as their move into the ADV market seems to have paid off.
@@DJPTEXAS over here we say "Answers on a postcard to the usual address" (as that was how people entered TV quizzes before the Internet became popular ) 😂
For me it is definitely a love/hate thingy with this one. All kudos to HD for trying to make something new (for them). I agree with you, Andy, that the front is butt ugly, and from the side it looks very packed and stacked and mean. I wouldn't trust it when it comes to reliability, service costs and spare parts. If we are lucky it will stir the pot and make the competitors embrace features such as the Adaptive Ride Height - that is a god sent for those of us that are vertically challenged, or feel that we have the balls closer to the ground than most...
Don't mind the looks from a few steps back (then again I like how the Himalayan looks too). Up close though, it looked very unfinished and rough and ready to me. The big fan for example looks very untidy and fragile.
When they deliver a 975 Pan America, then I may be interested. My HD dealer in New York, USA has 3 sitting in the showroom collecting dust. Not a sales winner with the Harley crowd.
Sorry but that front end is “Bender” from Futurama! (With apologies to the Buell Ulysses as well) Still…. Fair play to HD …. It’s part of the way forward and looks pretty purposeful 🤗
I kind of like the lumpy ungainly look of it. The square light on the front reminds me of a tiger shark's square head. Harley dealer after dealer were so incredibly rude and dismissive when I looked into the Buell Ulysses years ago I'm not sure I could ever own one. A relative was a Harley mechanic and so few people ever learned the V-Rod or other new motors that I'm also not confident they will know how to service these when needed. This still interests me somewhat.
![Lil Uzi Vert - Chill Bae [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D7F42F_JM3U/mqdefault.jpg)
I have one 2 years , 20,000km , no issues, have toured in spain on it 2 up. Love the bike
Looks are subjective for all of us. I absolutely love, love, love the look of this whereas I feel the complete opposite towards the KTM Adventure. And a GS is a GS. Good on Harley for stepping outside of their comfort zone and giving us their take on what an adventure bike should be.
That's well said 👍
I don't know what Mrs Flyer put in your morning tea but I cant ever remember see you chucking any bike around like this before!!! I think you love it???
You are a star Sir, doing a test on something I would never even consider, thank you for showing us HD are 'possible' now! If you think the switch-gear is JCB, then that headlight is definitely Ferguson tractor! lol
Great review Andy. I really love the look of the bike so definitely a subjective opinion. I think it’s so different that it breaks the rules of what bike should look like and that what I happen to like about it. As Henry ford said if I had ask people what they wanted the would have asked me to build a faster horse 😁
Great review as always mate 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Tip with the side stand & ARH. Get on the bike then bring the side stand up 'before' turning on the ignition. Same thing works in reverse at a stop, power off, little bounce on the rear to add preload and down pops the stand. You can also adjust the timing of the ARH activating within the systems. Best colour is Deadwood Green, now discontinued sadly... Great bike with lots of character and surprising performance.
Agreed! Dunno what he’s saying about vibes though… mine isn’t vibey and I’ve ridden for 14hrs straight on mine. No tingles at all
When i test rode 4 used bmws, each one vibed in a different way, even though they were the same model🤔
I’m glad you finally got to ride one. The first edition did not have a quick shifter and you are the first reviewer I have seen to test the H-D quick shifter. I am neutral on the looks of the bike and loved the way it rode when my local dealer sent a demo for us to ride. It is the one Harley I would buy and I just must. I would want one with just a soft top bag because I am not sure if my back would hold up on a long tour.
When this bike came out, I shared your opinion about its looks. As time has passed, I've learned how incredibly capable this machine is I have become quite less critical about its looks. One of Harley's most impressive technological offerings, a heck of a motorbike. Still, the battery location makes me crazy.
BMW’s GS is certainly no looker either however seems to have acquired a cult following due to function over form. Perhaps the HD will start to sell if they persevere long enough and get it recognized via major events etc.
They may sell more if Harley would spend some money on advertising the damn thing.
My first thought when I saw the front was “Robofridge” and nothing has changed my mind since. I’d love one!
You are actually right about the Marwin-bit in the Pan Am's face. I used to call it the look of a depressed storm trooper. And yes, from the sides, it does look okay. And obviously it _is_ a great bike, it's just that front. I wonder if that ride height reduction is really a reliable feature, though. This one failing might be a bit of a bummer, and it's always those electronic gimmicks that bite the dust first.
Nice one Andy, the Marvin-Electrolux is spot on🤣Totally with you on the looks of the Pan America. I ordered another quirky Harley (ex-Harley?) last week - the Livewire One - and should be taking delivery next week😎
Cool!
I own this motorcycle and I absolutely love mine. Love the looks think looks different than other bikes and it rides great. The right choice for me. Army green color.
Yes a better colour than the example I rode for sure….
Same here. A ‘21 PAS in Army green. Looks like a tank! 👌🏼
After you reviewed the V85 "duckface", I ended up buying one. I love it to pieces, and think it looks marvelous.
Funnily enough, I like the look of the Pan Am also. Next bike, maybe? 😁
I should add that the Pan Am was the best selling over 600cc ADV bike in 2021 in US/Canada, though sales tapered off in subsequent years. Early bikes had reliability issues, but recent ones seem to have it ironed out, for the most part.
Love the review in any event. They always make for a great Saturday morning.
I’m delighted to hear that - thank you!
From Triumph web page " A new Active Preload Reduction has been developed to reduce the rear suspension preload as the Tiger 1200 slows, allowing the seat heights to be reduced". I assume the 1300 GS also comes with the same feature. HD should be recognized for setting new standards 👌
Agreed!
The suspension lowering at stop would be very nice. I’m 5’9 with a 31” inseam. I have the factory lowered GSA and that works great.
Why do you want the suspension higher when you're moving anyway ?
Yeah I'd have that but the electronic suspension. A friend has an FJR13 Yamaha. The rear shock failed at around 20k miles. Yamaha want £3200 for a replacement unit! Now I know it's a different brand and others may be ok but it's something to be aware of .He went the aftermarket route at one third the cost but now has redundant switchgear. As long as electric units can be refurbished when required then all is well but it is really expensive to replace.
The front end is my favourite part of the bike.
It's certainly unusual!
Imo the benchmark is always the GS, and so it's hard to justify choosing the Harley because it's about 2k more without any tangible advantages. Personally I'd take the gs and put the savings towards a couple of trips. I can see why someone would choose a KTM or Tiger over a gs because of the performance characteristics, or a Africa Twin on price and reliability, but I think the only reason you'd pick the Harley is brand loyalty. That's the wonderful thing about the great choice of bikes we have these days though. The best it's ever been in my opinion.
In Australia it’s cheaper than GS when the beemer is optioned to get same equipment as standard on Pan Am. Pan Am has more horsepower and is close on torque but the game changer is the adaptive ride height
Agreed!
@@spargowombat5080won't be a game changer after September 28th!
Lost half their value in 2yrs...'22 with a few thousand miles can be had for £8Grand,chunk of bike for the cash!
In Canada, the Pan Am Special is about $4-5k cheaper than a GS. BMW asks a premium price here, so you see few of them on the road. I priced a new 1250 GSA here and it was $36k out the door, just too much, lovely machine though. Currently looking at a V Strom 1050, HD Pan Am, and the Yamaha Super Tenere which is still available new here. The Yamaha unfortunately is very dated.
Re looks , so glad Harley stayed away from the duck bill look ! I love it, and available in many colours
I have to agree with you on the looks of this bike. It truly did fall out of the ugly-tree and managed to hit every single branch on the way down!
Gotta big laugh lol !!!
Fantastic review mate , I test road one ☝️ around 6 months ago in Australia both on and off road , I do love the lowering thing BUT agree with you only looks a grandmother would love 😂😂😂
I really like this bike. I don’t think the white and yellow is the best colour, but HD should be applauded for stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to reach a new market. I like the looks, but then I really don’t like the drop style headlights on new style naked bikes, think they look terrible! But plenty of others love them… Great review, as always, thanks.
Agree on the color! It's my least favorite. It looks much better in the military green with the white star, playing off the WWII WLA paint.
Proper, efficient review. Thank you for not wasting time off road. I find no joy taking a 500lbs, 150HP, $20K bike off an improved surface.
The front to me looks like the old Transit van
I love everything about my '22 HD PAS. I opted for the Sportbags instead of the boxes. My only complaint...I wish the heated grips got hotter. The looks...it may be that color, I prefer it in the black or the gray only myself. It's comfortable, goes like stink and can go on long trips, on pavement or dirt roads. Ride safe!
Fabulous review Andy.. im with you on the looks, being a die hard Harley fanboy, im prepared to give all their bikes a positive consideration, ill always take the trouble to get my head behind their thinking and see their direction on a design... but i just can't on this.. Like you, that front end is just not for me.. somehow reminds me of my Dad's Allegro Vanden Plas... im sure if they offered it in beige with 'tan' seats, they'd sell even more to the Werther's Original fraternity.. But it's not their first Visual Faux Pas.. check out the 1970 Super Glide Boat Tail. Truly comical..! have a great weekend chap, and lets catch up soon. D&Px
Yes it does look like an Allegro Del you’re dead right!!! 😂 Great to hear from you mate….love to Penn as always….
I’ve recently owned a couple of Harley cruisers and when I was looking to add an adventure/tourer bike to the stable, I considered the Panamerica. Considering it’s such a huge departure from HD’s traditional offerings, I think they’ve done a pretty good job. However, in the end, I went with an R1250GS for the looks and the shaft drive. The question is, who did the better job of trying to break into another sector? HD with Panamerica? Or BMW with the R18?
Neck and neck , both fugly
I’m not sure either have done particularly well sales wise….
I must be the only one who likes the look of this bike! 🤣 I like that big headlight and how it looks so different from all the other typical adventure bikes
Nice one!
I find myself quite taken with the looks of this bike. I suppose its a different scenario when it's sitting in your own garage. The functionality of it has endeared to me the appearance of it. Excellent video sir.
I think yellow isn’t the best colour I think it looks better in the darker colours. Especially in the grey or the army green. You forgot to mention the seat is adjustable. If you take it off, it has two positions, high and low, the spotlight switchgear is an optional extra, so most of the bikes don’t have that. I test drove one in the summer and thoroughly loved It, I would like one, but they are above my price range currently but would be a possible future Bike for me.
The fastest hoover in the west! Shaft drive would be better and a longer front mudguard. Helmets won’t go in panniers. Apart from that it’s great!
Do people really put their helmets inside panniers ? Usually mine are stuffed with items and I bring the helmet with me inside or hang it off the bike somewhere....
My helmet fits fine in the top one.
Nice review and very helpful for a prospective future owner of a Pan America, maybe in 2024 - if Harley can fix a couple of things like the side stand and adding backlighted control switches. (I personally have always fancied the looks of the classic Electrolux vacuum cleaner. So this machine's front-end appearnce doesn't bother me.)
I’ve just ordered mine. Thank you for the advice, I will be careful with the kick stand
Enjoy it and congratulations!
I rode the all black Pan America. In black it doesn't accentuate the shark front. It was very comfortable, even 2 up. Good power and torque. Honestly, I have the Ducati multistrada touring s with all the packages, and I might have chosen this one instead.
Personally I think it looks good for what it is, a huge adventure bike. I like the square head light and no beak.
Nice one Chris!
I agree. I think the bluff styling suits the genre. And I’ve never liked the beaks on many of the other adventure bikes. The suspension was a clever trick, but I see Triumph have just added a similar system to the Tiger 1200.
Who ever thought the gs was a pretty bike? People have just got used to it.
The top box locking issue is a non starter for me. My BMW boxes are keyed to the main bike key and I usually leave the boxes unlocked.
My dealer had one of these taken In PX, they tried everywhere to move it on and no-one wanted it... even the two local Harley dealers.! So it would be interesting to know the sales figures and secondhand figures in sales and prices.. My local HD dealer just has one which is the demo bike, nothing in the show room. Never seen one on the road either.
Yes, my guess is these haven’t sold well, certainly in Europe anyway.
That stand is only an issue on the models with ARh because once it lowers down, that causes you to tilt the bike to the right in order to engage the stand. You can try locking the ARH in high position and check and you would not face such an issue.
But then you loose the adavantage of the auto-ride height!
I have a friend that has this bike and he’s had a few problems. Mostly around the dealer support when he has a problem. I rode this bike at an adventure rally and was very impresses. I have a 2021 R1250GSA so I have no reason to change
The front end does remind me of the MZ Trophy
Aesthetics are a funny thing, I fell in love with the look of this bike the first time I saw it. I honestly believe HD have created a bit of a classic-to-be with the Pan Am.
Compared to the GS Advebnture I tend to agree! ....and great value too.
Great review Andy. I quite like the looks of the Harley. Ive never really liked the angry bird look of the multi strada or the duck beak on the s1000xr. (although they are both great bikes) When I make the move to an adventure bike I'll be testing this Harley for sure...
She does ride well!
I own a Sportster S with the Revolution Max engine and the same electronics package as the Pan America. The Revolution Max engine a really good, and whilst Harley have built water cooled v-twins before, this new generation of engines is a big step forward.
Yes, nice unit that!
Great review. Agree with you on the looks and, as an ex-Harley rider myself, pleasantly surprised at what you say about the handling quality and technology. Will stick to my S1000XR though.
I agree with you that the suspension is quite good on the road, but off-road it's brutal. I took it for a demo ride during Adventure Bike Festival, and compared to my Tiger 900 Rally Pro this Harley had a wrist and ankle shattering ride off-road. Then again, most of the people that buy ADV bikes only use it on a motorway, so maybe that's fine for them 🤷♂
Like you, I noticed the high, slightly rear-set foot peg position. Quite surprising on what is supposed to be an adventure-touring bike. The looks I could get used to, but not the foot position!
Most bikes in this segment are blessed with looks that only their mother could love. I quite like this one but I do think it’s quite colour sensitive, H-D do a lovely dark green that really suits it.
Agreed….
Great review, thanks. I'm with you on the front end, I think it would look better without the headlight surround and just have a rectangular headlight, like my old xj750 seca did back in the 80's.
I understand the latest update to the Tiger 1200 has suspension lowering too. I think you hold the home button in
When they first came out I absolutely hated the looks of them. But when you look at is as a rugged, go anywhere, tractor/jcb kind of thing, it kind of starts to look half decent.
It looks better in total black. The orange tank etc does not flatter the contours of the bike. I looked at one but bought the Ducati Multistrada V2S instead.
Good review as usual. I too am not a fan of the look of the front end (deal breaker for me), the sound, and the flat square windscreen. Your review also showed another thing I would hate and that is the side stand - that apparent "flex" after it does make contact is unnerving and unnecessary. Glad to see HD taking the step in the right direction and making something other than their "cruisers" and for all my dislikes I think that this bike is an excellent first effort, as there are many things to like about the bike otherwise.
best looking adv imo! Apsolutely love the front end
When I first saw the images of the Pan America I thought it had been styled by Lego !
But it is growing on me and I think in all black it looks better.
I personally love the look of the bike, I think it has a retro 1980s look to it which I love!!
For the price I don't like that the hard luggage isn't soft lined! CFmoto 800 has soft lined luggage and that costs less than 10k on the road! Another great review 👏
That’s exactly what I noticed when I rode it when Launched a lot of heat of that v twin when you came to a stop. Ouch was 14k then big jump. I actually think it looks really nice different and yes a surprising chassis and engine. If I ever went down the adventure route would probably become a GS rebel 😅
HD have pulled out all the stops and built an excellent bike however the HD Adventure bike does not seem to have sold too well. Definitely not a looker ( neither is the GS for that matter) especially in yellow……black or grey seems to suit it better. Big discount deals available at main dealers if you’re in the market for one. Thanks for the review Andy 👍
My pleasure!
Hasn’t sold well here stateside, although there are a lot of used ones for sale. A lot of issues and feels cheaply made. Too much poor quality plastic. Once the novelty and brand loyalty wore off they started popping up for sale used all over.
Thank you Mr. Flyer. I would never have guessed this was a "Harley" if one passed me in the street. I laughed out aloud at your comparison to a mix of Marvin (Hitchhiker's Guide) and an Electrolux upright. I think it's nice to see HD trying new ideas, although this bike is even less likely to be ridden by me than most of their others for many reasons. I still can't seem to find anything remotely likely to prize me from my "Striple" - even other Triumphs.
I appreciate your review, as usual almost like having tried one without the effort lol. Keep riding and enjoying and stay safe. :>)
Thank you for the kind words!
My only issue with the rev max engine is that I think it looks like a big molded plastic cover.
The panniers are also identical to the ones on my Vstrom. No idea who made them, but they're obviously banging them out en masse.
Great review 👍
But what were they thinking with that front end ? It just looks like the front light of an old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner. Surely HD could have come up with something better looking for this model....
Re the side stand Motech do a pad for the stand which inspires a lot more confidence especially when parked on grass. Pricey but does the job extremely well.
You'd have to tilt the bike over to the right even further then!!
Another good informative video Michael. Is the Nitron upgrade review on your friends CB1000R one of the upcoming videos?
No idea what you’re talking about - who is Michael?
@TheMissendenFlyer Sorry, my mistake. I started a comment near the end of the Mam Journals, (Michael Mam), your vlog started and the message went to you!!
The problems I have with the Pan Am is that I want one but cant justify spending the money on one. That and they are still so new and the fact that it's a Harley makes finding a cheaper used one difficult
Spokes are the same as a BMW 1150gs I had back in the day!... Nothing wrong with chain drive, the only shaft drive I'd have these days would have Honda stamped on it!
As you say the looks aren't for everyone, still KTM Adventure for me.
If they made a touring model with shaft drive I'd be doing a lot of thinking about pursuing a long term relationship with this.
Agreed. I'd love to see it on this this motor or even a slightly bigger version of it set up something like a Street Glide or Low Rider ST or Sport Glide.
Power to weight could easily beat the big tourers plus braking & handling much better with the lighter platform.
I'd always thought it a shame Harley didn't do something similar with the V Rod motor and now I'm hoping they'll eventually get around to it with this one.
Imagine this platform in battle of the baggers...
I don’t believe H-D has ever made a bike with shaft drive. So, options would be chain or rubber belt, the latter would be terrible for ADV due to rocks or debris fouling the rear belt pulley.
@@admiralbeez8143 Indeed. But they've never made an adv either. I wouldn't expect it off the bat but maybe on the refresh a model would be added.
You have to applaud Harley for doing something different. Apart from the front I think it looks ok. Perhaps an opportunity for an aftermarket manufacturer to bring out a better looking fairing.
I love your description of the front end.😂
I like it a lot apart from the plastic running along the tank. What is that?
Hi missendenflyer! Is there any chance in the future to be able to do a retro review of the honda silverwing interstate? I understand how difficult that would be to source one as they're rare as diamonds these days but I'd thoroughly appreciate it if you did as it's probably the closest I will ever get
It’s on the list!
Clean design design bike. The front light. It works. Those wheels, much same as our GS BMW, the bag lock. I remember them well with key in pocket looking in rearview mirror watching the bag explode when the car hit it when it fell off. Lock them every time. Good engine so far. A few friends have these and they are great for gravel roads and good trails. Not meant for hardcore dirt although a few have road the heck out of them without issue. That's the way mirrors used to be. Simple, don't oil them. All black or dark grey works best. It blends in better. A sow with lipstick. Do a Sargent seat. You have the premium model. Moto Guzzi, my Benelli 750 SEI and most all twin BMW's, /6 and 7 have the same style sidestand. Easy to forget and leave down in the old days. Doing wheelies on my Benelli and looked, yeap, it was down. A one legged ariel retraction. So glad to get it pulled up. Many were like that. You have to put them down then rock the bike back to make it take a set. Seems that could be a one size fits all for the model with out the lowering parking suspension. Don't know that for sure. Try a new Sportster sometime. Same engine all different riding style and design. Good review. Accurate in scope.
These things appear to depreciate pretty quickly from new so may be a good option for a bargain buy.
Handsome thing in side profile.
There are a few long term reviews with reliability issues and the active suspension playing up. Hopefully they are have sorted all the issues out
In the U.S. there is this oddity that many traditional Harley Davidson loyalists are angry HD built an adventure motorcycle, and they refuse to waive to anyone on a Pan America or to otherwise accept them into the HD tribe. As an American who doesn't get the whole HD thing, this is one more head-scratcher.
As for the looks, the PA's looks have grown on me. I prefer its decidedly masculine lines to the GS's beak and transformer looks. That said, the GS is far more refined and it has a shaft drive, which makes long-distance touring much easier.
I would be happy riding a PA, and I am impressed with HD's effort here, but when it comes time to put down my own money I'll take a GS(A).
Looks like a handsome chunk of Americana to me. I like it all except for the chain drive. I'm done with chains, what's the point when shaft drive is so good? Worst s/stand I ever had was on an Aprilia Falco, found the bike on its side several times. In the end I just started leaning it against walls.
Just thought I spotted something there - is that the bike's rectifier poking out of the bash plate at the front? With that plus the stressed member engine I'm thinking this isn't a serious off-road machine so much as a bike that can cope with a gravel/dirt track *if you have to*, like, you've come 100 miles down this road in the Rockies, and the asphalt runs out, you know you got to get through to where it's OK again... Compare with the Africa Twin & BMW GS which can both ford rivers in flood & deal with big rocks given a decent aftermarket bash plate & crash bars. Looks like a lovely tourer though with ADV styling.
Chief... 2 weeks riding my new MT 09 sp and i am blown away ... i will stick to Japan when it comes to motorcycles! And for HD ... "old bikes new prices" and it seems with this one they are late to the party !
I have had a test ride on one of these and they are nice to ride and a quick bike. My only issue was the price for an unknown/new bike in this market place. The looks didn’t bother me too much as I don’t think adventure bikes are particularly good looking anyway, the thing on looks for me was the left hand side of the engine was messy.
Hi. Does Harley use Imperial or Metric bolt sizes on their bikes? Suspect every bolt is torx?
I don’t know - sorry!
A review well up to your usual high standards, Andy - I feel I can trust you on your honest assessment of bikes you try out, including this one.
Those spoked wheels with spokes to the outside of the rims so allowing tubeless tyres, featured way back in 2003 (and no doubt earlier than that) on my BMW R1150GS.
The looks are hideous. Not a bike I could live with on that point alone. I know (and as you say) looks are subjective, but pig ugly is pig ugly. Even it's mother would not say it's a looker.
The mirrors with ball joints are a bit like bar-ends I've had in that respect, including the tensioning screws.
Why aren't self-cancelling indicators standard on all bikes? How many accidents would that preclude? My R9T had them, but disappointingly my Speedmaster doesn't. Nice to see HD have effective ones on this bike.
HD need to sort out the looks and the transmission (shaft or maybe belt) and it would be a great bike.
Cheers
Vince
I agree with you about the looks. The tacho looks almost imvisible - is this just the camera? The sidestand doesn't look beefy enough for a 125, let alone a really heavy bike. Switchgear looks gross.
I saw one at the dealership last year ,and I thought it was a beautiful bike ,except the headlight assembly looked like a Proctor-Silex toaster oven.
I’ll tell you what I think of this bike! That it’s not for me. But I’m glad it’s out there, trying something different and unique to see on the road. Each to their own! Side stand and panniers can all be swapped to third party anyway, so no worries there for me.
great bike and surprisingly for harley well priced
Only it’s mum will love it from the front but I love the look of the engine. I could be tempted with a second hand one for something different. I like the little touches such as mirrors, screen adjustment that look well thought out. Interstate to see if HD continue with this line or go back to tried and trusted. Yes the side stand would stop me buying it too
If only they redesigned that front light they could be onto something…
Comprehensive review.. I like it... but i do have a tendency for square boxy vehicles (Discovery). It looks the part and the lowering feature is of great interest as i have 29 inch inside leg at 5ft 10in (How did a shorty end up with 32 inch I/L)🤔😂 In my opinion all V engines give off a lot of heat and was expecting your comment earlier in the video but you got there in the end😂
I reckon Harley should stick to streamlined baggers with aerodynamic panniers & batwing handlebar fairings . I know ADV type bikes are never the prettiest creations ,but that Pan American front end looks like it was created for an episode of Thunderbirds . It makes the wacky headlight on my little V strom look respectable . Also never did get those 3 square metal boxes ,they stick out well too far no aerodynamic qualities ,& still opened easily by thieves in seconds. Also when it comes to adventure bikes the less tech the better & the less to break down in the middle of nowhere . This bike is more for those who blat down motorways & stay in hotels & make sure they are never too far from a Harley dealer, it sells the image of adventure more than really intending to deliver a machine that is really suitable for the job . I give you the 👍 for the review not the bike .
Andy I was wondering when you were going to get around to this, but today is the day? I’ve seen quite a few Pan America’s but not one in that particular colour scheme. The slate grey and black and black and bronze look a lot better and dual round not square headlights would’ve been much better, as per early 80’s Tour fairing. The side view engine looks amazing and I’ve not heard anybody complain about the performance on the streets and highway and it would be suitable for agricultural roads. It’s not a trail mule but definitely a Harley Ferguson.
Yes dual round headlights would have been a winner…
Needs more Harley logos on everything.
😆
The styling was influenced by the "Bender" character in "Futurama". And for chrissake, Harley: Paint the damned headlight fairing to match the tank, so it doesn't look like someone threw on an aftermarket part, and just left it coated with beige primer!
Reminds me in a way of the V Rod and we all know that happened to that, but I hope it continues even if it's just to keep the competition on their toes with other new innovations. Hats off to them for trying but those looks just don't do it for me or I suspect most riders looking to get an ADV bike. It would be interesting to know how many they've sold and if those were to existing HD customers but I guess that would be a little too commercially sensitive. I do like the fact they've put a hugger on to protect the rear shock but no shaft drive is a minus for me and it looks like they've done the usual HD thing and put the regulator right in the firing line from all the stones and water coming off the front wheel, why as no one else does.
Best selling Adventure bike in 2021 in the US and Canada.......
@@DJPTEXAS Really, I guess that's not surprising though here in the UK I've never seen one on the road only time I've seen one in the flesh is at the annual Bike show. The GSA and GS are king here in the large adventure class, being the top sellers each month more or less since the LC model came out in 2013 and even with the 1300 due out soon it still tops the sales charts. No doubt the chiefs at HD are rightly pleased with their sales of the Pan America your side of the pond as their move into the ADV market seems to have paid off.
@@Bazza47 And I have yet to see a Yamaha Tenere 7 over here ! Go figure....
@@DJPTEXAS over here we say "Answers on a postcard to the usual address" (as that was how people entered TV quizzes before the Internet became popular ) 😂
😂@@Bazza47
For me it is definitely a love/hate thingy with this one. All kudos to HD for trying to make something new (for them). I agree with you, Andy, that the front is butt ugly, and from the side it looks very packed and stacked and mean. I wouldn't trust it when it comes to reliability, service costs and spare parts. If we are lucky it will stir the pot and make the competitors embrace features such as the Adaptive Ride Height - that is a god sent for those of us that are vertically challenged, or feel that we have the balls closer to the ground than most...
Don't mind the looks from a few steps back (then again I like how the Himalayan looks too). Up close though, it looked very unfinished and rough and ready to me. The big fan for example looks very untidy and fragile.
When they deliver a 975 Pan America, then I may be interested. My HD dealer in New York, USA has 3 sitting in the showroom collecting dust. Not a sales winner with the Harley crowd.
Sorry but that front end is “Bender” from Futurama! (With apologies to the Buell Ulysses as well)
Still…. Fair play to HD …. It’s part of the way forward and looks pretty purposeful 🤗
Those panniers look like SW Motech Trax that have been rebranded. Same as a VStrom
They are…
I think they got their inspiration for the front end from the MZ Trophy.
the luggage and crash bars, fog lighs are sw-motech just branded as HD. The next bike test shuld be the kawasaki versys 1000 SE GT .
Certainly goes well, not the usual HD.. And, I thought you were getting ice creams out of the top box, that reminded me of Walls's😂
Thank you...
I kind of like the lumpy ungainly look of it. The square light on the front reminds me of a tiger shark's square head. Harley dealer after dealer were so incredibly rude and dismissive when I looked into the Buell Ulysses years ago I'm not sure I could ever own one. A relative was a Harley mechanic and so few people ever learned the V-Rod or other new motors that I'm also not confident they will know how to service these when needed. This still interests me somewhat.
Fashion segment? One of my favorite parts.
Yes maybe I should bring those back…?