Nice review. I’ve put 11,000 miles on my PanAm Special in 18 months. Reliability has been GOOD with software updates taking care of any suspension, accessory charging or hard starting issues - bike has never left me stranded even when left parked and no trickle-charger for a week in sub-freezing nighttime lows temps. Off-road if your heavily loaded with supplies on ruts and steep hills when that suspension lowers at a stop it is the one feature you will fall in love with quickly. Someone mentioned below the bike feels cheap, no doubt getting off a CVO Street Glide then onto a PanAm the PanAm levers feel weightless and the display might seem lose on it’s mount. However the PanAm is deft at 135 mph and off-road in desert heat with extra tires and fuel/water the PanAm feels excellent. Finally I find the styling gorgeous. Friends with BMW R1250GS comment about their bikes myriad plastic beaks and and thin plastic panels - so there are design knocks to go around with most adventure bikes.
It seems to me a lot of people who are sour about the pan ams reliability were early 2021 buyers. Go figure I have a 2022 and it’s been amazing to me, few small bugs but nothing that stranded me
When this bike came out, I shared your opinion about its looks. As time has passed, I've learned how incredibly capable this machine is I have become quite less critical about its looks. One of Harley's most impressive technological offerings, a heck of a motorbike. Still, the battery location makes me crazy.
BMW’s GS is certainly no looker either however seems to have acquired a cult following due to function over form. Perhaps the HD will start to sell if they persevere long enough and get it recognized via major events etc.
Most bikes in this segment are blessed with looks that only their mother could love. I quite like this one but I do think it’s quite colour sensitive, H-D do a lovely dark green that really suits it.
For me it is definitely a love/hate thingy with this one. All kudos to HD for trying to make something new (for them). I agree with you, Andy, that the front is butt ugly, and from the side it looks very packed and stacked and mean. I wouldn't trust it when it comes to reliability, service costs and spare parts. If we are lucky it will stir the pot and make the competitors embrace features such as the Adaptive Ride Height - that is a god sent for those of us that are vertically challenged, or feel that we have the balls closer to the ground than most...
Great review 👍 But what were they thinking with that front end ? It just looks like the front light of an old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner. Surely HD could have come up with something better looking for this model....
Looks like a handsome chunk of Americana to me. I like it all except for the chain drive. I'm done with chains, what's the point when shaft drive is so good? Worst s/stand I ever had was on an Aprilia Falco, found the bike on its side several times. In the end I just started leaning it against walls.
Yes I think that is an insult to Marvin ,Horrid design for the front end but that goes along with all Harley design. Thanks for the review, Sargent Cycle makes a great comfy seat that looks a TREAT better too.
Personally I’m not a fan of Harley’s at all and the looks of this one actually make me dry heave. BUT Harley deserve some credit for introducing the lowering suspension to the market and for trying something different. Fair play to them this bike has changed my perception of them a little bit.
I love the HD cruisers but this bike does not emulate the title. The front end leaves a lot to be desired in the looks department and only one side of the engine looks finished. Just wondered if anyone else sees this.
Looking on eBay - prices for 2022 are around 11K with very low miles so value has sunk like a falling stone. So if purchased new you lose - if nearly new you win big time.
Great review Andy. I really love the look of the bike so definitely a subjective opinion. I think it’s so different that it breaks the rules of what bike should look like and that what I happen to like about it. As Henry ford said if I had ask people what they wanted the would have asked me to build a faster horse 😁 Great review as always mate 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You are a star Sir, doing a test on something I would never even consider, thank you for showing us HD are 'possible' now! If you think the switch-gear is JCB, then that headlight is definitely Ferguson tractor! lol
Looks are subjective for all of us. I absolutely love, love, love the look of this whereas I feel the complete opposite towards the KTM Adventure. And a GS is a GS. Good on Harley for stepping outside of their comfort zone and giving us their take on what an adventure bike should be.
Imo the benchmark is always the GS, and so it's hard to justify choosing the Harley because it's about 2k more without any tangible advantages. Personally I'd take the gs and put the savings towards a couple of trips. I can see why someone would choose a KTM or Tiger over a gs because of the performance characteristics, or a Africa Twin on price and reliability, but I think the only reason you'd pick the Harley is brand loyalty. That's the wonderful thing about the great choice of bikes we have these days though. The best it's ever been in my opinion.
In Australia it’s cheaper than GS when the beemer is optioned to get same equipment as standard on Pan Am. Pan Am has more horsepower and is close on torque but the game changer is the adaptive ride height
In Canada, the Pan Am Special is about $4-5k cheaper than a GS. BMW asks a premium price here, so you see few of them on the road. I priced a new 1250 GSA here and it was $36k out the door, just too much, lovely machine though. Currently looking at a V Strom 1050, HD Pan Am, and the Yamaha Super Tenere which is still available new here. The Yamaha unfortunately is very dated.
Tip with the side stand & ARH. Get on the bike then bring the side stand up 'before' turning on the ignition. Same thing works in reverse at a stop, power off, little bounce on the rear to add preload and down pops the stand. You can also adjust the timing of the ARH activating within the systems. Best colour is Deadwood Green, now discontinued sadly... Great bike with lots of character and surprising performance.
Do people really put their helmets inside panniers ? Usually mine are stuffed with items and I bring the helmet with me inside or hang it off the bike somewhere....
Hmm I think the Italians have the wood on the Americans when it comes to design. For that matter British bikes are way cooler too, chain or not. Everything American that I've owned, had bits start to fall off & cost a bomb to fix after about five years - mind you I've owned an earlier Ducati where that happened too. Good review. ruclips.net/video/XeuXShFIgyc/видео.html
Yeah I'd have that but the electronic suspension. A friend has an FJR13 Yamaha. The rear shock failed at around 20k miles. Yamaha want £3200 for a replacement unit! Now I know it's a different brand and others may be ok but it's something to be aware of .He went the aftermarket route at one third the cost but now has redundant switchgear. As long as electric units can be refurbished when required then all is well but it is really expensive to replace.
When they first came out I absolutely hated the looks of them. But when you look at is as a rugged, go anywhere, tractor/jcb kind of thing, it kind of starts to look half decent.
Nice one Andy, the Marvin-Electrolux is spot on🤣Totally with you on the looks of the Pan America. I ordered another quirky Harley (ex-Harley?) last week - the Livewire One - and should be taking delivery next week😎
From Triumph web page " A new Active Preload Reduction has been developed to reduce the rear suspension preload as the Tiger 1200 slows, allowing the seat heights to be reduced". I assume the 1300 GS also comes with the same feature. HD should be recognized for setting new standards 👌
In the U.S. there is this oddity that many traditional Harley Davidson loyalists are angry HD built an adventure motorcycle, and they refuse to waive to anyone on a Pan America or to otherwise accept them into the HD tribe. As an American who doesn't get the whole HD thing, this is one more head-scratcher. As for the looks, the PA's looks have grown on me. I prefer its decidedly masculine lines to the GS's beak and transformer looks. That said, the GS is far more refined and it has a shaft drive, which makes long-distance touring much easier. I would be happy riding a PA, and I am impressed with HD's effort here, but when it comes time to put down my own money I'll take a GS(A).
I don't know what Mrs Flyer put in your morning tea but I cant ever remember see you chucking any bike around like this before!!! I think you love it???
I’ve recently owned a couple of Harley cruisers and when I was looking to add an adventure/tourer bike to the stable, I considered the Panamerica. Considering it’s such a huge departure from HD’s traditional offerings, I think they’ve done a pretty good job. However, in the end, I went with an R1250GS for the looks and the shaft drive. The question is, who did the better job of trying to break into another sector? HD with Panamerica? Or BMW with the R18?
You are actually right about the Marwin-bit in the Pan Am's face. I used to call it the look of a depressed storm trooper. And yes, from the sides, it does look okay. And obviously it _is_ a great bike, it's just that front. I wonder if that ride height reduction is really a reliable feature, though. This one failing might be a bit of a bummer, and it's always those electronic gimmicks that bite the dust first.
After you reviewed the V85 "duckface", I ended up buying one. I love it to pieces, and think it looks marvelous. Funnily enough, I like the look of the Pan Am also. Next bike, maybe? 😁 I should add that the Pan Am was the best selling over 600cc ADV bike in 2021 in US/Canada, though sales tapered off in subsequent years. Early bikes had reliability issues, but recent ones seem to have it ironed out, for the most part. Love the review in any event. They always make for a great Saturday morning.
Fantastic review mate , I test road one ☝️ around 6 months ago in Australia both on and off road , I do love the lowering thing BUT agree with you only looks a grandmother would love 😂😂😂
America isn’t renowned for producing quality automotive. Having said that, at least they ARE still making stuff so want them to succeed. But THAT Harley has been tapped repeatedly and comprehensively with the ugly stick. And they look just as bad in the flesh (only my opinion of course). A local bloke has one and it’s not ageing well.
Hi missendenflyer! Is there any chance in the future to be able to do a retro review of the honda silverwing interstate? I understand how difficult that would be to source one as they're rare as diamonds these days but I'd thoroughly appreciate it if you did as it's probably the closest I will ever get
As an owner of a Pan Am, ill say this. Take out the baffle in the slip on and they sound great! They go like stink, handle well, the color will make the bike, grey or black look great and match the front end. However the reliability and engineering is extremely poor
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I agree with you that the suspension is quite good on the road, but off-road it's brutal. I took it for a demo ride during Adventure Bike Festival, and compared to my Tiger 900 Rally Pro this Harley had a wrist and ankle shattering ride off-road. Then again, most of the people that buy ADV bikes only use it on a motorway, so maybe that's fine for them 🤷♂
Spokes are the same as a BMW 1150gs I had back in the day!... Nothing wrong with chain drive, the only shaft drive I'd have these days would have Honda stamped on it! As you say the looks aren't for everyone, still KTM Adventure for me.
I agree. I think the bluff styling suits the genre. And I’ve never liked the beaks on many of the other adventure bikes. The suspension was a clever trick, but I see Triumph have just added a similar system to the Tiger 1200.
Yeah the front end looks like half a tractor, but the motor is phenomenal, shame it doesnt power more/all Harley models, having said that, I love kTm😁.
Kudos to Harley for that water cooled engine. Unfortunately they are way to late to the adventure bike segment. I've not seen many on the road so guessing not a sales success?? Its a shame the styling is so left field. The keyless system that doesn't work the steering lock and fuel tank and separate key for the luggage. Sorry but no.
Agreed. I'd love to see it on this this motor or even a slightly bigger version of it set up something like a Street Glide or Low Rider ST or Sport Glide. Power to weight could easily beat the big tourers plus braking & handling much better with the lighter platform. I'd always thought it a shame Harley didn't do something similar with the V Rod motor and now I'm hoping they'll eventually get around to it with this one. Imagine this platform in battle of the baggers...
I don’t believe H-D has ever made a bike with shaft drive. So, options would be chain or rubber belt, the latter would be terrible for ADV due to rocks or debris fouling the rear belt pulley.
My dealer had one of these taken In PX, they tried everywhere to move it on and no-one wanted it... even the two local Harley dealers.! So it would be interesting to know the sales figures and secondhand figures in sales and prices.. My local HD dealer just has one which is the demo bike, nothing in the show room. Never seen one on the road either.
I know two people who bought these and yes, ugly as sin, but both the ones I know of have been nothing but trouble and were got shot of in short order.
I really like this bike. I don’t think the white and yellow is the best colour, but HD should be applauded for stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to reach a new market. I like the looks, but then I really don’t like the drop style headlights on new style naked bikes, think they look terrible! But plenty of others love them… Great review, as always, thanks.
I’m glad you finally got to ride one. The first edition did not have a quick shifter and you are the first reviewer I have seen to test the H-D quick shifter. I am neutral on the looks of the bike and loved the way it rode when my local dealer sent a demo for us to ride. It is the one Harley I would buy and I just must. I would want one with just a soft top bag because I am not sure if my back would hold up on a long tour.
Fabulous review Andy.. im with you on the looks, being a die hard Harley fanboy, im prepared to give all their bikes a positive consideration, ill always take the trouble to get my head behind their thinking and see their direction on a design... but i just can't on this.. Like you, that front end is just not for me.. somehow reminds me of my Dad's Allegro Vanden Plas... im sure if they offered it in beige with 'tan' seats, they'd sell even more to the Werther's Original fraternity.. But it's not their first Visual Faux Pas.. check out the 1970 Super Glide Boat Tail. Truly comical..! have a great weekend chap, and lets catch up soon. D&Px
Good review as usual. I too am not a fan of the look of the front end (deal breaker for me), the sound, and the flat square windscreen. Your review also showed another thing I would hate and that is the side stand - that apparent "flex" after it does make contact is unnerving and unnecessary. Glad to see HD taking the step in the right direction and making something other than their "cruisers" and for all my dislikes I think that this bike is an excellent first effort, as there are many things to like about the bike otherwise.
I reckon Harley should stick to streamlined baggers with aerodynamic panniers & batwing handlebar fairings . I know ADV type bikes are never the prettiest creations ,but that Pan American front end looks like it was created for an episode of Thunderbirds . It makes the wacky headlight on my little V strom look respectable . Also never did get those 3 square metal boxes ,they stick out well too far no aerodynamic qualities ,& still opened easily by thieves in seconds. Also when it comes to adventure bikes the less tech the better & the less to break down in the middle of nowhere . This bike is more for those who blat down motorways & stay in hotels & make sure they are never too far from a Harley dealer, it sells the image of adventure more than really intending to deliver a machine that is really suitable for the job . I give you the 👍 for the review not the bike .
I’ll tell you what I think of this bike! That it’s not for me. But I’m glad it’s out there, trying something different and unique to see on the road. Each to their own! Side stand and panniers can all be swapped to third party anyway, so no worries there for me.
I love that front end. Hate that it's so BIG AND FOOKIN LARDY!!!!!!!!!!! 😬 Oh and one other thing: an iPad should not be a dashboard. Yuck. But love that HD shows it has some real imagination.
I love everything about my '22 HD PAS. I opted for the Sportbags instead of the boxes. My only complaint...I wish the heated grips got hotter. The looks...it may be that color, I prefer it in the black or the gray only myself. It's comfortable, goes like stink and can go on long trips, on pavement or dirt roads. Ride safe!
Not a Harley Guy, but impressed with this bike. I’m not sure on the looks. It’s ugly, but it’s also distinctive. I own a Honda Element and I like the looks of it so that probably is an indication of my subjective view 😂
"Spokes at the outside of the Rim for tubeless tires": The BMW GSes have that feature for years now! So it's not a good idea, it is good copied. And after all: Nothing, really nothing beats the GS!!
I’m not convinced that this HD pan America is competition in Europe for the GS or the GSA 1250, or for the Triumph Tiger 1200 Explorer or GT, and even to the KTM 1290 SAS or the Ducati Multistrada. It simply doesn’t overcome any of these motorcycles, not in looks wise, nor in technology. It simply gets near, nothing further that. It falls short on the Brand’s ambitions in what concerns to the European market. Maybe it can be an American alternative to these Adventure bikes in their domestic market, solely.
The (very very rapidly aging) traditional Harley fan base do want to cling to yesteryear's tech. The problem is that Harley Davidson the company can't survive if young people think of their bikes as rotting relics from a bygone era. They have to innovate, court younger riders or literally go under when the old coots who ride their bikes just die of old age.
@@KimmoJaskariMany, many people love the Harley Davidson and will continue to do so for decades to come. Alongside being the most customisable bikes on the planet, they are reliable and very well built. Harleys are aimed primarily at the American market and riders of all ages still get it. I often wonder if people who comment like this have ever ridden one? I don’t particularly like this model but I really don’t like adventure bikes at all, I really don’t see the point of them and they are ALL pig ugly, including the BMW’s but their Cruisers are fantastic! Yes, they are very basic with proper manual clutches and with very little in the way of technology but what’s the point of having a classic looking retro bike with all the bells and whistles? Kind of defeats the object if you ask me.
That front end spoils the bike , Side on not to bad 😊, Mirror arms look cheap compared to Triumph or BMW, Switch gear looks a bit complicated buttons everywhere, Enjoyed the review,
Just thought I spotted something there - is that the bike's rectifier poking out of the bash plate at the front? With that plus the stressed member engine I'm thinking this isn't a serious off-road machine so much as a bike that can cope with a gravel/dirt track *if you have to*, like, you've come 100 miles down this road in the Rockies, and the asphalt runs out, you know you got to get through to where it's OK again... Compare with the Africa Twin & BMW GS which can both ford rivers in flood & deal with big rocks given a decent aftermarket bash plate & crash bars. Looks like a lovely tourer though with ADV styling.
Bikes have to appeal to you to make it yours. Looks are very much part of the apeal. Harleys just don’t appeal to me. This one does. Not pretty but not fugly either. Having seen a black one at a dealer it’s not so bad. The front is kind of Harleyesque. Many of which seam kind of fugly to me. Similar to some of the big ass tour glides. Whats it like to ride? The big question with all these bike would you by this bike or a GS. For me. I went looking for a GS. I’m impressed by this bike, many reviews compliment its off road performance. The old timer behind the counter in Chicken reckoned he had seen one. He was a bit bored with my GS 9 out 10 bikes stop for gas there are BMW. According to him. The new GS better have some version of these revolutionary features. Particularly the ride hight lowering system. Or the old guys going see more variety.
Yes the front looks like an ugly emotional robot. Reminds me of a robot from Futurama (C). However, it is upright, comfortable, and performs above average from what I have heard. And yes the engine looks good.
A friend commented on my 1st BMW, (an airhead) it's so ugly no one would steal it. Possibly a similar comment could be said of this bike. But even a mother thinks her child is beautiful. Lol. Time will tell if it is a good seller. 👍👍🏍🏍🏍🙋♂️
This Bike looks better when it’s not two-tone you possibly picked or they gave you the worst color combination for this bike. When it’s a whole solid color it looks much better The front fairing to me, looks like the Turret of an M-1 Abrams Tank. , Google the Tank, and you’ll see what I mean. 😏 Also, this engine has had too many gremlins perhaps by 2025 all the bugs will be sorted ,??
I think yellow isn’t the best colour I think it looks better in the darker colours. Especially in the grey or the army green. You forgot to mention the seat is adjustable. If you take it off, it has two positions, high and low, the spotlight switchgear is an optional extra, so most of the bikes don’t have that. I test drove one in the summer and thoroughly loved It, I would like one, but they are above my price range currently but would be a possible future Bike for me.
I don't see what people like about the look of "traditional" Harleys. I find almost all cruisers horrendously ugly. First time I saw one of these I thought it was the best-looking Harley I've ever seen and I haven't changed my mind.
Even though I've owned several Ducati's, I still prefer the look of this bike over any of the Multistradas, strafing from the very first generation, those are just plain ugly to me. 😮
I like the look of the bike, but when I test drove one, found the clutch to be very touchy. It stalls upon takeoff very easily. The shifter is tight and hard to fit your foot under too. Other than that it's a fun bike, but when I was comparing it to my ATAS CRF1100L which is around the same price, I found the Honda to be of higher quality and design. So, I decided not to trade in my Honda for this bike.
I've warmed to the looks... and by warmed, I'm more on the Luke warm spectrum lol, I watched a video where they chatted to the Americans who designed it, and they said they wanted it to look "American" like an old charger or mustang .. so when you view it with that in mind, I do think fair enough... its Merica !!!
Sadly, looks better on a screen than in the showroom. But, don’t wanna drag on about it so, like others, I say Komodos to Harley for building it! Oh, wait, I meant kudos . . .
Sorry it’s the Porsche Panamera of motorbikes for me…🤢 being more expensive than a GS means they’re also relying partly on brand loyalty for sales too. But I applaud Harley for trying something different and sure in later versions they’ll correct the looks.
Bloody hot here. This was the fifth day with temperatures above 30°C. Two more hot days to go and then thundershowers. The headlight section is simply ugly and too big. The rest is functionally good looking. Shame they didn’t go for shaft drive. They should make another headlight for the rest of the world.
Initially intrigued by this bike but would never buy one. Talked to too many owners who've had all kinds of issues with theirs, especially with the electronics. New bike syndrome to a degree, but that's where decades of refinement pay off on a GS. Tip of the hat to Harley for going in a new direction at least.
Too right, this thing is dog ugly, although GS & Africa Twins are no oil paintings either. Form should follow function in this genre. Their beauty is in fitness for purpose.
Horrible looking thing, but the engine is good and Harley should've produced the Bronx with this very engine in it, at least for the European market. Most of us don't like the feet forward riding position as on the Sportster replacement, nor its wimpier state of tune.
That utilitarian-looking front end has all the visual 'charm' of something from the former Eastern Bloc countries during the era of the Soviet Union. Also, how disappointing to see that the Harley-Davidson name doesn't feature on the tank. They've instead used the shape of their badge sans the logo in a bland and nondescript design presumably intended to appeal to hipsters and millennials who feel triggered by the brand name and what they believe it represents.
The problems I have with the Pan Am is that I want one but cant justify spending the money on one. That and they are still so new and the fact that it's a Harley makes finding a cheaper used one difficult
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice review.
I’ve put 11,000 miles on my PanAm Special in 18 months. Reliability has been GOOD with software updates taking care of any suspension, accessory charging or hard starting issues - bike has never left me stranded even when left parked and no trickle-charger for a week in sub-freezing nighttime lows temps.
Off-road if your heavily loaded with supplies on ruts and steep hills when that suspension lowers at a stop it is the one feature you will fall in love with quickly.
Someone mentioned below the bike feels cheap, no doubt getting off a CVO Street Glide then onto a PanAm the PanAm levers feel weightless and the display might seem lose on it’s mount. However the PanAm is deft at 135 mph and off-road in desert heat with extra tires and fuel/water the PanAm feels excellent.
Finally I find the styling gorgeous. Friends with BMW R1250GS comment about their bikes myriad plastic beaks and and thin plastic panels - so there are design knocks to go around with most adventure bikes.
It seems to me a lot of people who are sour about the pan ams reliability were early 2021 buyers. Go figure I have a 2022 and it’s been amazing to me, few small bugs but nothing that stranded me
When this bike came out, I shared your opinion about its looks. As time has passed, I've learned how incredibly capable this machine is I have become quite less critical about its looks. One of Harley's most impressive technological offerings, a heck of a motorbike. Still, the battery location makes me crazy.
BMW’s GS is certainly no looker either however seems to have acquired a cult following due to function over form. Perhaps the HD will start to sell if they persevere long enough and get it recognized via major events etc.
They may sell more if Harley would spend some money on advertising the damn thing.
Most bikes in this segment are blessed with looks that only their mother could love. I quite like this one but I do think it’s quite colour sensitive, H-D do a lovely dark green that really suits it.
Agreed….
For me it is definitely a love/hate thingy with this one. All kudos to HD for trying to make something new (for them). I agree with you, Andy, that the front is butt ugly, and from the side it looks very packed and stacked and mean. I wouldn't trust it when it comes to reliability, service costs and spare parts. If we are lucky it will stir the pot and make the competitors embrace features such as the Adaptive Ride Height - that is a god sent for those of us that are vertically challenged, or feel that we have the balls closer to the ground than most...
Great review 👍
But what were they thinking with that front end ? It just looks like the front light of an old Hoover upright vacuum cleaner. Surely HD could have come up with something better looking for this model....
Looks like a handsome chunk of Americana to me. I like it all except for the chain drive. I'm done with chains, what's the point when shaft drive is so good? Worst s/stand I ever had was on an Aprilia Falco, found the bike on its side several times. In the end I just started leaning it against walls.
Yes I think that is an insult to Marvin ,Horrid design for the front end but that goes along with all Harley design. Thanks for the review, Sargent Cycle makes a great comfy seat that looks a TREAT better too.
Personally I’m not a fan of Harley’s at all and the looks of this one actually make me dry heave.
BUT Harley deserve some credit for introducing the lowering suspension to the market and for trying something different. Fair play to them this bike has changed my perception of them a little bit.
I agree 100%
I love the HD cruisers but this bike does not emulate the title. The front end leaves a lot to be desired in the looks department and only one side of the engine looks finished. Just wondered if anyone else sees this.
Yes, I’m certainly with you on that!
With looks like that only a mother could love
Looking on eBay - prices for 2022 are around 11K with very low miles so value has sunk like a falling stone. So if purchased new you lose - if nearly new you win big time.
I suppose they’ve made it distinctive just like ktm and Bmw adventure so if you see one out on the road you’re in no doubt as to what it is.
Great review Andy. I really love the look of the bike so definitely a subjective opinion. I think it’s so different that it breaks the rules of what bike should look like and that what I happen to like about it. As Henry ford said if I had ask people what they wanted the would have asked me to build a faster horse 😁
Great review as always mate 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You are a star Sir, doing a test on something I would never even consider, thank you for showing us HD are 'possible' now! If you think the switch-gear is JCB, then that headlight is definitely Ferguson tractor! lol
Looks are subjective for all of us. I absolutely love, love, love the look of this whereas I feel the complete opposite towards the KTM Adventure. And a GS is a GS. Good on Harley for stepping outside of their comfort zone and giving us their take on what an adventure bike should be.
That's well said 👍
Imo the benchmark is always the GS, and so it's hard to justify choosing the Harley because it's about 2k more without any tangible advantages. Personally I'd take the gs and put the savings towards a couple of trips. I can see why someone would choose a KTM or Tiger over a gs because of the performance characteristics, or a Africa Twin on price and reliability, but I think the only reason you'd pick the Harley is brand loyalty. That's the wonderful thing about the great choice of bikes we have these days though. The best it's ever been in my opinion.
In Australia it’s cheaper than GS when the beemer is optioned to get same equipment as standard on Pan Am. Pan Am has more horsepower and is close on torque but the game changer is the adaptive ride height
Agreed!
@@spargowombat5080won't be a game changer after September 28th!
Lost half their value in 2yrs...'22 with a few thousand miles can be had for £8Grand,chunk of bike for the cash!
In Canada, the Pan Am Special is about $4-5k cheaper than a GS. BMW asks a premium price here, so you see few of them on the road. I priced a new 1250 GSA here and it was $36k out the door, just too much, lovely machine though. Currently looking at a V Strom 1050, HD Pan Am, and the Yamaha Super Tenere which is still available new here. The Yamaha unfortunately is very dated.
Tip with the side stand & ARH. Get on the bike then bring the side stand up 'before' turning on the ignition. Same thing works in reverse at a stop, power off, little bounce on the rear to add preload and down pops the stand. You can also adjust the timing of the ARH activating within the systems. Best colour is Deadwood Green, now discontinued sadly... Great bike with lots of character and surprising performance.
Agreed! Dunno what he’s saying about vibes though… mine isn’t vibey and I’ve ridden for 14hrs straight on mine. No tingles at all
When i test rode 4 used bmws, each one vibed in a different way, even though they were the same model🤔
Doesn’t work for me sorry dude.. give me a Guzzi v85 or a GS any day just my opinion 😊Pete
The fastest hoover in the west! Shaft drive would be better and a longer front mudguard. Helmets won’t go in panniers. Apart from that it’s great!
Do people really put their helmets inside panniers ? Usually mine are stuffed with items and I bring the helmet with me inside or hang it off the bike somewhere....
My helmet fits fine in the top one.
Hi Andy, Yep it's got a Face only a Mother could love, seems a good bike otherwise ? ATB Wayne......
Hmm I think the Italians have the wood on the Americans when it comes to design. For that matter British bikes are way cooler too, chain or not. Everything American that I've owned, had bits start to fall off & cost a bomb to fix after about five years - mind you I've owned an earlier Ducati where that happened too. Good review. ruclips.net/video/XeuXShFIgyc/видео.html
Yeah I'd have that but the electronic suspension. A friend has an FJR13 Yamaha. The rear shock failed at around 20k miles. Yamaha want £3200 for a replacement unit! Now I know it's a different brand and others may be ok but it's something to be aware of .He went the aftermarket route at one third the cost but now has redundant switchgear. As long as electric units can be refurbished when required then all is well but it is really expensive to replace.
I asked Harley if they thought you could be used as a male model for the next brochure. They said NO
😂
That’s because I turned them down when they asked me….
I have one 2 years , 20,000km , no issues, have toured in spain on it 2 up. Love the bike
When they first came out I absolutely hated the looks of them. But when you look at is as a rugged, go anywhere, tractor/jcb kind of thing, it kind of starts to look half decent.
Nice one Andy, the Marvin-Electrolux is spot on🤣Totally with you on the looks of the Pan America. I ordered another quirky Harley (ex-Harley?) last week - the Livewire One - and should be taking delivery next week😎
Cool!
From Triumph web page " A new Active Preload Reduction has been developed to reduce the rear suspension preload as the Tiger 1200 slows, allowing the seat heights to be reduced". I assume the 1300 GS also comes with the same feature. HD should be recognized for setting new standards 👌
Agreed!
It seems to be a great bike apart from being pug ugly and kudos to H-D for developing the suspension lowering function for us short arses.
In the U.S. there is this oddity that many traditional Harley Davidson loyalists are angry HD built an adventure motorcycle, and they refuse to waive to anyone on a Pan America or to otherwise accept them into the HD tribe. As an American who doesn't get the whole HD thing, this is one more head-scratcher.
As for the looks, the PA's looks have grown on me. I prefer its decidedly masculine lines to the GS's beak and transformer looks. That said, the GS is far more refined and it has a shaft drive, which makes long-distance touring much easier.
I would be happy riding a PA, and I am impressed with HD's effort here, but when it comes time to put down my own money I'll take a GS(A).
I don't know what Mrs Flyer put in your morning tea but I cant ever remember see you chucking any bike around like this before!!! I think you love it???
I’ve recently owned a couple of Harley cruisers and when I was looking to add an adventure/tourer bike to the stable, I considered the Panamerica. Considering it’s such a huge departure from HD’s traditional offerings, I think they’ve done a pretty good job. However, in the end, I went with an R1250GS for the looks and the shaft drive. The question is, who did the better job of trying to break into another sector? HD with Panamerica? Or BMW with the R18?
Neck and neck , both fugly
I’m not sure either have done particularly well sales wise….
I have to agree with you on the looks of this bike. It truly did fall out of the ugly-tree and managed to hit every single branch on the way down!
Gotta big laugh lol !!!
The suspension lowering at stop would be very nice. I’m 5’9 with a 31” inseam. I have the factory lowered GSA and that works great.
Why do you want the suspension higher when you're moving anyway ?
Just like my wife, it's no looker, but does the job.
You are actually right about the Marwin-bit in the Pan Am's face. I used to call it the look of a depressed storm trooper. And yes, from the sides, it does look okay. And obviously it _is_ a great bike, it's just that front. I wonder if that ride height reduction is really a reliable feature, though. This one failing might be a bit of a bummer, and it's always those electronic gimmicks that bite the dust first.
After you reviewed the V85 "duckface", I ended up buying one. I love it to pieces, and think it looks marvelous.
Funnily enough, I like the look of the Pan Am also. Next bike, maybe? 😁
I should add that the Pan Am was the best selling over 600cc ADV bike in 2021 in US/Canada, though sales tapered off in subsequent years. Early bikes had reliability issues, but recent ones seem to have it ironed out, for the most part.
Love the review in any event. They always make for a great Saturday morning.
I’m delighted to hear that - thank you!
Fantastic review mate , I test road one ☝️ around 6 months ago in Australia both on and off road , I do love the lowering thing BUT agree with you only looks a grandmother would love 😂😂😂
Apart from the hoover front end 😂 Why does the engine look like a Monet from one side, while the other side looks like a Tracey Emin?
Arty!
It doesn't look too bad apart from that hideous headlight🤮
America isn’t renowned for producing quality automotive. Having said that, at least they ARE still making stuff so want them to succeed.
But THAT Harley has been tapped repeatedly and comprehensively with the ugly stick. And they look just as bad in the flesh (only my opinion of course). A local bloke has one and it’s not ageing well.
Even the old Honda Pan European have a good design than this bike.... Nice review btw 👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks! 👍
Hi missendenflyer! Is there any chance in the future to be able to do a retro review of the honda silverwing interstate? I understand how difficult that would be to source one as they're rare as diamonds these days but I'd thoroughly appreciate it if you did as it's probably the closest I will ever get
It’s on the list!
As an owner of a Pan Am, ill say this. Take out the baffle in the slip on and they sound great! They go like stink, handle well, the color will make the bike, grey or black look great and match the front end. However the reliability and engineering is extremely poor
I agree with you that the suspension is quite good on the road, but off-road it's brutal. I took it for a demo ride during Adventure Bike Festival, and compared to my Tiger 900 Rally Pro this Harley had a wrist and ankle shattering ride off-road. Then again, most of the people that buy ADV bikes only use it on a motorway, so maybe that's fine for them 🤷♂
Spokes are the same as a BMW 1150gs I had back in the day!... Nothing wrong with chain drive, the only shaft drive I'd have these days would have Honda stamped on it!
As you say the looks aren't for everyone, still KTM Adventure for me.
Personally I think it looks good for what it is, a huge adventure bike. I like the square head light and no beak.
Nice one Chris!
I agree. I think the bluff styling suits the genre. And I’ve never liked the beaks on many of the other adventure bikes. The suspension was a clever trick, but I see Triumph have just added a similar system to the Tiger 1200.
Who ever thought the gs was a pretty bike? People have just got used to it.
Yeah the front end looks like half a tractor, but the motor is phenomenal, shame it doesnt power more/all Harley models, having said that, I love kTm😁.
The front to me looks like the old Transit van
Kudos to Harley for that water cooled engine. Unfortunately they are way to late to the adventure bike segment. I've not seen many on the road so guessing not a sales success??
Its a shame the styling is so left field.
The keyless system that doesn't work the steering lock and fuel tank and separate key for the luggage. Sorry but no.
Yes I’ve not seen one on the road either - shame the looks miss the mark isn’t it….
great bike and surprisingly for harley well priced
If they made a touring model with shaft drive I'd be doing a lot of thinking about pursuing a long term relationship with this.
Agreed. I'd love to see it on this this motor or even a slightly bigger version of it set up something like a Street Glide or Low Rider ST or Sport Glide.
Power to weight could easily beat the big tourers plus braking & handling much better with the lighter platform.
I'd always thought it a shame Harley didn't do something similar with the V Rod motor and now I'm hoping they'll eventually get around to it with this one.
Imagine this platform in battle of the baggers...
I don’t believe H-D has ever made a bike with shaft drive. So, options would be chain or rubber belt, the latter would be terrible for ADV due to rocks or debris fouling the rear belt pulley.
@@admiralbeez8143 Indeed. But they've never made an adv either. I wouldn't expect it off the bat but maybe on the refresh a model would be added.
My dealer had one of these taken In PX, they tried everywhere to move it on and no-one wanted it... even the two local Harley dealers.! So it would be interesting to know the sales figures and secondhand figures in sales and prices.. My local HD dealer just has one which is the demo bike, nothing in the show room. Never seen one on the road either.
Yes, my guess is these haven’t sold well, certainly in Europe anyway.
I know two people who bought these and yes, ugly as sin, but both the ones I know of have been nothing but trouble and were got shot of in short order.
Oh dear!
Reminds me of an ex girlfriend. Not the best looker, but a nice ride, her mother was the same.
Nice work!
The front end does remind me of the MZ Trophy
I really like this bike. I don’t think the white and yellow is the best colour, but HD should be applauded for stepping out of their comfort zone and trying to reach a new market. I like the looks, but then I really don’t like the drop style headlights on new style naked bikes, think they look terrible! But plenty of others love them… Great review, as always, thanks.
Agree on the color! It's my least favorite. It looks much better in the military green with the white star, playing off the WWII WLA paint.
I’m glad you finally got to ride one. The first edition did not have a quick shifter and you are the first reviewer I have seen to test the H-D quick shifter. I am neutral on the looks of the bike and loved the way it rode when my local dealer sent a demo for us to ride. It is the one Harley I would buy and I just must. I would want one with just a soft top bag because I am not sure if my back would hold up on a long tour.
Fabulous review Andy.. im with you on the looks, being a die hard Harley fanboy, im prepared to give all their bikes a positive consideration, ill always take the trouble to get my head behind their thinking and see their direction on a design... but i just can't on this.. Like you, that front end is just not for me.. somehow reminds me of my Dad's Allegro Vanden Plas... im sure if they offered it in beige with 'tan' seats, they'd sell even more to the Werther's Original fraternity.. But it's not their first Visual Faux Pas.. check out the 1970 Super Glide Boat Tail. Truly comical..! have a great weekend chap, and lets catch up soon. D&Px
Yes it does look like an Allegro Del you’re dead right!!! 😂 Great to hear from you mate….love to Penn as always….
Those panniers look like SW Motech Trax that have been rebranded. Same as a VStrom
They are…
Good review as usual. I too am not a fan of the look of the front end (deal breaker for me), the sound, and the flat square windscreen. Your review also showed another thing I would hate and that is the side stand - that apparent "flex" after it does make contact is unnerving and unnecessary. Glad to see HD taking the step in the right direction and making something other than their "cruisers" and for all my dislikes I think that this bike is an excellent first effort, as there are many things to like about the bike otherwise.
The top box locking issue is a non starter for me. My BMW boxes are keyed to the main bike key and I usually leave the boxes unlocked.
I reckon Harley should stick to streamlined baggers with aerodynamic panniers & batwing handlebar fairings . I know ADV type bikes are never the prettiest creations ,but that Pan American front end looks like it was created for an episode of Thunderbirds . It makes the wacky headlight on my little V strom look respectable . Also never did get those 3 square metal boxes ,they stick out well too far no aerodynamic qualities ,& still opened easily by thieves in seconds. Also when it comes to adventure bikes the less tech the better & the less to break down in the middle of nowhere . This bike is more for those who blat down motorways & stay in hotels & make sure they are never too far from a Harley dealer, it sells the image of adventure more than really intending to deliver a machine that is really suitable for the job . I give you the 👍 for the review not the bike .
I’ll tell you what I think of this bike! That it’s not for me. But I’m glad it’s out there, trying something different and unique to see on the road. Each to their own! Side stand and panniers can all be swapped to third party anyway, so no worries there for me.
That front looks like a Japanese design disaster from the 80's
Not a great looker is it….rides nice though.
I love that front end. Hate that it's so BIG AND FOOKIN LARDY!!!!!!!!!!! 😬 Oh and one other thing: an iPad should not be a dashboard. Yuck. But love that HD shows it has some real imagination.
I love everything about my '22 HD PAS. I opted for the Sportbags instead of the boxes. My only complaint...I wish the heated grips got hotter. The looks...it may be that color, I prefer it in the black or the gray only myself. It's comfortable, goes like stink and can go on long trips, on pavement or dirt roads. Ride safe!
That bike is FUGLY!
Hardley Dangerous should stick to making cruisers...
Not a Harley Guy, but impressed with this bike. I’m not sure on the looks. It’s ugly, but it’s also distinctive. I own a Honda Element and I like the looks of it so that probably is an indication of my subjective view 😂
If you own an Element that’s a great choice vehicle !!!! People pay big money for a nice one nowadays where I live.
@@colingoldthorpe5918 There is a cult following for Elements! Mine just turned over 307,000 miles this week and running strong 💪🏼
"Spokes at the outside of the Rim for tubeless tires": The BMW GSes have that feature for years now! So it's not a good idea, it is good copied. And after all: Nothing, really nothing beats the GS!!
True!
All the adventure bikes, have ugly fronts, except for one, the Ducati MultiStrada
Nothing to dislike , sounds a peach, appears to go like stink, appart from Coyote Ugly from the front.Cheers TMF.
Needs more Harley logos on everything.
😆
I’m not convinced that this HD pan America is competition in Europe for the GS or the GSA 1250, or for the Triumph Tiger 1200 Explorer or GT, and even to the KTM 1290 SAS or the Ducati Multistrada. It simply doesn’t overcome any of these motorcycles, not in looks wise, nor in technology. It simply gets near, nothing further that. It falls short on the Brand’s ambitions in what concerns to the European market. Maybe it can be an American alternative to these Adventure bikes in their domestic market, solely.
The looks aren't the biggest problem - that it isn't air cooled & from 1957 is the actual controversy....
The (very very rapidly aging) traditional Harley fan base do want to cling to yesteryear's tech. The problem is that Harley Davidson the company can't survive if young people think of their bikes as rotting relics from a bygone era. They have to innovate, court younger riders or literally go under when the old coots who ride their bikes just die of old age.
@@KimmoJaskariMany, many people love the Harley Davidson and will continue to do so for decades to come. Alongside being the most customisable bikes on the planet, they are reliable and very well built. Harleys are aimed primarily at the American market and riders of all ages still get it. I often wonder if people who comment like this have ever ridden one? I don’t particularly like this model but I really don’t like adventure bikes at all, I really don’t see the point of them and they are ALL pig ugly, including the BMW’s but their Cruisers are fantastic! Yes, they are very basic with proper manual clutches and with very little in the way of technology but what’s the point of having a classic looking retro bike with all the bells and whistles? Kind of defeats the object if you ask me.
That front end spoils the bike ,
Side on not to bad 😊,
Mirror arms look cheap compared to Triumph or BMW,
Switch gear looks a bit complicated buttons everywhere,
Enjoyed the review,
Just thought I spotted something there - is that the bike's rectifier poking out of the bash plate at the front? With that plus the stressed member engine I'm thinking this isn't a serious off-road machine so much as a bike that can cope with a gravel/dirt track *if you have to*, like, you've come 100 miles down this road in the Rockies, and the asphalt runs out, you know you got to get through to where it's OK again... Compare with the Africa Twin & BMW GS which can both ford rivers in flood & deal with big rocks given a decent aftermarket bash plate & crash bars. Looks like a lovely tourer though with ADV styling.
Bikes have to appeal to you to make it yours. Looks are very much part of the apeal. Harleys just don’t appeal to me. This one does. Not pretty but not fugly either. Having seen a black one at a dealer it’s not so bad.
The front is kind of Harleyesque. Many of which seam kind of fugly to me. Similar to some of the big ass tour glides.
Whats it like to ride?
The big question with all these bike would you by this bike or a GS.
For me. I went looking for a GS.
I’m impressed by this bike, many reviews compliment its off road performance.
The old timer behind the counter in Chicken reckoned he had seen one. He was a bit bored with my GS 9 out 10 bikes stop for gas there are BMW. According to him.
The new GS better have some version of these revolutionary features. Particularly the ride hight lowering system.
Or the old guys going see more variety.
Yes the front looks like an ugly emotional robot. Reminds me of a robot from Futurama (C). However, it is upright, comfortable, and performs above average from what I have heard. And yes the engine looks good.
A friend commented on my 1st BMW, (an airhead) it's so ugly no one would steal it. Possibly a similar comment could be said of this bike. But even a mother thinks her child is beautiful. Lol. Time will tell if it is a good seller. 👍👍🏍🏍🏍🙋♂️
This Bike looks better when it’s not two-tone you possibly picked or they gave you the worst color combination for this bike.
When it’s a whole solid color it looks much better
The front fairing to me, looks like the Turret of an M-1 Abrams Tank. , Google the Tank, and you’ll see what I mean. 😏
Also, this engine has had too many gremlins perhaps by 2025 all the bugs will be sorted ,??
Sometimes an ugly bike can start a revolution. Remember the 2003 Ducati Multistrada? 🙂
I think yellow isn’t the best colour I think it looks better in the darker colours. Especially in the grey or the army green. You forgot to mention the seat is adjustable. If you take it off, it has two positions, high and low, the spotlight switchgear is an optional extra, so most of the bikes don’t have that. I test drove one in the summer and thoroughly loved It, I would like one, but they are above my price range currently but would be a possible future Bike for me.
Personally I think it’s the best looking adventure bike. Tho I do like the bmws especially in the right color scheme.
I don't see what people like about the look of "traditional" Harleys. I find almost all cruisers horrendously ugly. First time I saw one of these I thought it was the best-looking Harley I've ever seen and I haven't changed my mind.
Even though I've owned several Ducati's, I still prefer the look of this bike over any of the Multistradas, strafing from the very first generation, those are just plain ugly to me. 😮
I like the look of the bike, but when I test drove one, found the clutch to be very touchy. It stalls upon takeoff very easily. The shifter is tight and hard to fit your foot under too. Other than that it's a fun bike, but when I was comparing it to my ATAS CRF1100L which is around the same price, I found the Honda to be of higher quality and design. So, I decided not to trade in my Honda for this bike.
I've warmed to the looks... and by warmed, I'm more on the Luke warm spectrum lol, I watched a video where they chatted to the Americans who designed it, and they said they wanted it to look "American" like an old charger or mustang .. so when you view it with that in mind, I do think fair enough... its Merica !!!
Sadly, looks better on a screen than in the showroom. But, don’t wanna drag on about it so, like others, I say Komodos to Harley for building it! Oh, wait, I meant kudos . . .
Sorry it’s the Porsche Panamera of motorbikes for me…🤢 being more expensive than a GS means they’re also relying partly on brand loyalty for sales too. But I applaud Harley for trying something different and sure in later versions they’ll correct the looks.
Bloody hot here. This was the fifth day with temperatures above 30°C. Two more hot days to go and then thundershowers.
The headlight section is simply ugly and too big.
The rest is functionally good looking.
Shame they didn’t go for shaft drive.
They should make another headlight for the rest of the world.
No Harley Davidson sound on a HD? - I guess they've moved away from the single crank pin :/
Riding a Ducati I could never live with that face, just hate it, I do like the clever suspension though but I couldn’t see me riding any HD.
Initially intrigued by this bike but would never buy one. Talked to too many owners who've had all kinds of issues with theirs, especially with the electronics. New bike syndrome to a degree, but that's where decades of refinement pay off on a GS. Tip of the hat to Harley for going in a new direction at least.
I saw one at the dealership last year ,and I thought it was a beautiful bike ,except the headlight assembly looked like a Proctor-Silex toaster oven.
ONE OF THE WORST BUILD QUALITY BIKES I´VE EVER BEEN ON. TERRIBLE FIT AND FINISHES.
Oh dear! Why the capitals?
Excusez-moi. :)))))
But again, great video Andy. Thanks.
@@TheMissendenFlyer
Too right, this thing is dog ugly, although GS & Africa Twins are no oil paintings either. Form should follow function in this genre. Their beauty is in fitness for purpose.
Horrible looking thing, but the engine is good and Harley should've produced the Bronx with this very engine in it, at least for the European market. Most of us don't like the feet forward riding position as on the Sportster replacement, nor its wimpier state of tune.
Glad you agree, that's one pig ugly bike.
It would have probably helped if the front end was the same colour as the tank, but i doubt it.
That utilitarian-looking front end has all the visual 'charm' of something from the former Eastern Bloc countries during the era of the Soviet Union.
Also, how disappointing to see that the Harley-Davidson name doesn't feature on the tank. They've instead used the shape of their badge sans the logo in a bland and nondescript design presumably intended to appeal to hipsters and millennials who feel triggered by the brand name and what they believe it represents.
The problems I have with the Pan Am is that I want one but cant justify spending the money on one. That and they are still so new and the fact that it's a Harley makes finding a cheaper used one difficult