Just tuned in. Have owned a 2022 PAS since June of 22. Currently has 22,090 miles I put on it. I use it as a daily rider for commuter, backroads twisty corner carving and long haul touring. I love this bike very much. Its number 49 of bikes Ive owned and ridden. Only issue so far was a noisy fuel pump replaced under warranty. Fortunately my dealership is Rev Max friendly and the lead tech owns and rides a 2021 PAS. Most of the dislikes that I have read about do not bother me at all. Side stand, button locations engine heat wind screen etc. Having owned 49 various types and makes of bikes I adapt very easily. Here in the NE US the engine heat is welcome most of the year. My biggest concern is the reluctance of many dealers to embrace this machine. Also the MOCO lack of advertising of it. Would really hate to see it go the way of The HD backed Buell motorcycles ( I owned 11 of them). The Pan America is what the Buell Ulysses was trying to be. Well I will be subscribed and tuning in to keep up with your experiences on your PA. Keep the videos coming. Thank you , Paul
Much appreciated. I had that fear as well early last year when the 975 version didn’t come out as expected and I thought Harley may have given up. Internally I can say Harley looks committed now. Our training site has a lot of material and competition assessment. The info is there for dealers to learn. Some are just stuck in the dark ages. Future is bright but they need a mid-size adv to really compete.
@AlexUlleri I agree with you wholeheartedly. Its the midsized adv market showing the most growth at this time. I really dont see how a 975 PA will fullfill as a mud size machine. Given that the external engine dimensions are the same as the 1250. As you said in your presentation I too had read that they Rev Max platform was going to be a modular designed unit that would be based on a common crankcase utilizing a variety of cylinder sizes and bores to achieve a variety of engines with various bore and strokes. This would allow Harley to compete in a variety of levels of the motorcycle market.. Time will tell. BMW has had much success doing this while continuing their iconic boxer line of bikes. Harley should so likewise to remain competetive and innovative. I hope so.
@@paulwojnar2291 agreed. I read somewhere that they could not get the weight down and may have gone back to the drawing board. I’ve had the same fear about the engine weight. I hope they figure it out or the Pan-Am might be a one off. Fingers crossed.
I have a 2023 and the heat is a non-issue for me and I live in Florida. The air diverter on the left of the bike, with the catalytic converter heat shield manage the heat effectively. Back in the day, I owned a Buell, XB12X that you could cook an egg off. My Pan America has performed flawlessly. It is amazing.
Only heat on the bike that is a minor annoyance to me is the rear cylinder head on my right thigh when I'm stopped. Not hot enough to burn instantly, but its very uncomfortable and would burn you if you just ignored the discomfort.
I purchased a 21 Pan Am and had no real issues with it but there were glitches here and there. Sold the bike in 2023 and purchased the 2024 Pan Am. Night and day difference in the bikes. No electrical issues, glitches, or problems. The rear brake works now. All in all I would say the first year bike was not quite as refined as the 2024. This bike is just a blast to ride. By far one of the best motorcycles I've owned. If I had to have one thing negative to say, it would be the tail light is a joke. Small and barely visible when you have the tail pack on. Almost immediately installed the Denali tail/brake light plate kit and this really improved visibility from the rear.
@@khakimzhanmiras when I had the stock windshield I did not have problem with it. Maybe the rental unit had loose one. It should not rattle. I’d go test ride a new one from a dealer.
I've owned both. Sold my BMW to buy the Pan Am and have not been disappointed. BMW has some annoying traits that you did not hit on which have plagued the bike for years. Overall though, I thought your review was well done. The Pan Am is not perfect but neither was the BMW. I'm at 7500 miles now with zero issues. Overall what has impressed me most about the Pan Am is its ability to chew up miles without effort. What impressed me the least about the Pan Am and something Harley really needs to address is the size and placement of the rear tail light. Small and hard to see with full bags on the bike. Borderline dangerous. I rigged aftermarket LED's on my tail box to help with that. Otherwise, good scoot. 14 Reply
While I have given the GSA a few good floggings and have ridden enough bikes to make a quick assessment that it's in the same ballpark as the Harley. I much preferred the engine on the Pan-Am and preferred it's slimmer design to the GS among other things. :)
My dad had BMWs and I've always wanted one. The only thing keeping me away is there is no dealer anywhere near me. That makes the Harley very tempting. Even the KTM dealer is 3.5 hours away and Idk if they're even competent, as my used 390 Duke came overfilled and leaking oil when I bought it with like 800 miles on it.
@@AdamND701I wouldn’t touch a Pan, because the dealers here are woeful in Australia with service and aftermarket. I bought a GSA because a) warranty - 5 years, with 3 years roadside assist b) there are some Pan owners which have had a string of problems, more so then BMW c) was able to test ride the BMW d) low centre of gravity e) fuel range f) range of accessories from the aftermarket g) shaft drive - less to do on long trips h) air filter access - going on a long trip through the desert requires air filter checks. I cannot be arsed removing the tank i) refinement h) if the dealers don’t play ball, I have a bloody good specialist around the corner i) access to BMW Safaris
As a multiple Honda Goldwing owner, the Airbox issues....it's almost as if the engineers bought the air filter and then designed the bike around it. It's ridiculous that they bury maintenance parts so deep and make it a "shop visit" for the average owner. On an ADV bike, it's a TERRIBLE mistake, considering if you actually USE the bike for ADV, the airbox needs to be checked and maintained almost daily in harsh conditions.
One thing I didn’t mention is the bike has two spark plugs per head and one of the two also requires the removal of the tank. Not ideal but the rest of the bike makes up for it.
It’s only difficult the first time! Just like most things! Taking the gas tank off is common nowadays with big adventure bikes! No valve adjustment for the Pan American and its relatively easy maintenance! They also have affordable maintenance plans! 3yr maintenance for under $2500 ! Pays for itself in 5 services! 18,000 miles on my 22’ best adventure bike out there! It’s also the first big adventure bike to complete the ECO AFRICA race! BMW just stopped all sells on the new 1300 gs for faulty relay switches!
I own the 2023 RA1250S. The heat is a non issue for me... I did put the aftermarket (larger, tougher) skid plate on the bike early on. For serious off-road the new skid plate is a MUST. I agree with all your points for the most part; honest reliable truthful review. I have absolutely had a blast on my Pan America Special... my favorite bike ever. The two pain in the ass points I agree are the kick-stand, and the air-box. All live-able. This bike is a keeper! marcus
Good honest review! I also have a 21 and absolutely love the bike, pretty much the same feedback as you and making adjustments as I go. I did add the daymaker lights and they make a world of difference!!
Very well done! I purchased my first H-D touring machine in 1975, a ‘71 FLH and I’ve had an H-D touring machine since then. In 2021 I bought a 1250S and I’m absolutely smitten with this machine…yeah, it’s been a little fussy, but after 11k miles it’s never left me walking. There is an H-D TSB that will sort out these early machines.
I was so excited about this bike. Was #1 on the wait list when they first came in. Electrical and battery issues were annoying but bearable. After two years of ownership, and really wanting to LOVE this bike, the negatives finally won out and I traded it in for a KTM 890 Adventure. It has been an adventure.....
Excellent and fair review. I have a 2021 - and I've had no issues with it. 27,000 miles so far. The picking up issues is a real thing!!! LOL! It took me months to get the technique correct. I was puzzled as to why I could easily pick up mu 860+ pound Ultra Limited but struggled with the 560 pound Pan America. Then I looked at the videos carefully and realized that with the Ultra Limited, if you sit on the seat, you are automatically in the correct position. When lifting. This is not the case with the Pan America. You have to be at a MUCH more canted angle to align properly on the Pan America. In the correct position, your shoulders, hip bones, and ankles are in the same plane. Your knees are bent, and your arms are fully expanded. It does not matter what angle your body is in reference to the ground as long as you maintain that alignment. If you do that, all you have to do is keep your back straight and straighten your legs. The bike pops right up!! And all the work is done by your thighs, with no work done by your back. This works every time - and I'm a small almost 60 year old man with a torn left rotator cuff. It also helps to unload the top box and high side pannier first if you REALLY want to make it effortless. Please try it electively at home. Once you get used to doing that, it will greatly increase your confidence with riding alone off road.
Good review. I would agree with most of what you said, especially how much fun the bike is. My '22 with 38,000 miles has been running great since the March 2023 service bulletins were performed. I would add that the HD Connect interface is MUCH improved since I purchased the MC in February of 2022, and now am confident using the stock navigation system.
Excellent review of an awesome bike. This ride is always a thrill. No issues with reliability. My only problem has been a bad battery on the key fob. I agree it would be great to see the Motor Company put more advertising and dealer training behind it. There should be an adventure display, clothing, parts and bikes in every dealer.
I own 1250S 2021 , and I'm really happy with that. This thing is highly recommended . In my opinion PanAmerica is much better then BMW GS , or Honda Affrica . Engine is masterpiece, suspension is unbelievable. This bike worth it's money, for sure.
I agree with your video. I owned a 2022 Nightster and I sold it for a 2023 Street Bob. I love the bike as it is a no frill motorcycle without all of the electronics that failed on my Nightster. Did you have any ABS issues? My front wheel would lock up constantly on hard breaking and no one seemed to have an idea as to a fix for said problem.
Honestly I didn't have many issues at all with my bike. A few thrown codes, limp mode once. Had my right hand control replaced because the connection on the starter switch failed and that's it. Zero ABS issue, in fact works great on and off-road. Street Bobs a fantastic bike, tones of torque and very agile. Enjoy and thanks for watching and commenting.
When I first saw the PA, I thought it looked bizarre! I remember thinking that they were surely going to change the looks before they released it, right? Nope, and I'm so glad they didn't! Now, I think it looks awesome! I agree that it's a work of art. It is decidedly Harley Davidson! That big, muscular stance with the semi shark nose front end flowing into the tank and that sexy V Twin at the heart is gorgeous! Great looking bike! I really, really want one! If i didn't love my Low Rider S so much, I would absolutely get one! Once i get my FXLRS paid off, though? Hopefully, Harley doesn't discontinue it prematurely? I know it doesn't sell like they want, and Harley is struggling to sell anything right now!
Nice review.. Also good to see comments from other owners who have had good luck with the PA. I wanted one of these when they first came out but they really seemed plagued with electronic issues so I bought an Africa Twin. Last year, I looked at them again but ended up going with a new R1250 GSA. I love the look of the PA from the Rider's right, but the other side looks unfinished with wires dangling everywhere. The GSA has been good, 13,500 miles in 9 months on and off road, but I don't like the telelever front suspension off road at all. Fine for gravel but on rocky trails it's as unpredictable as an Italian woman. I hope HD continues to dial in the PA. Like you mentioned, some of the design elements and lines are art. But if HD is going to play in this market, they have to keep moving forward. No resting on laurels in the ADV categories these days.
Agreed. That is one thing that scares me about Harley. Upgrades come very slow and the new CEO is all about the core customers which has me worried about the future of the RevMax platform.
No it's not the engine. The engine is amazing. It's just a focus thing with him. He wants to focus on the core customer base and give them new products...which means a focus on touring. My hope is we will see something new mid season for the Revmax: A new Sportster or finally the Pan-Am 975
@@AlexUlleri Great point, their focus is all over the place. If HD does a 975 ADV, they need to come hard! Competing with the Ducati Desert X, KTM 890, Nordin 901, the new GSs, the AT, and the Tiger 900, to name a few won't be easy.
Cool thanks for letting us know. Can I ask how’s the bike running? Typically when you change the head pipe in a bike you need to tune it and Harley has no tunes for the bike. I believe fuel Moto makes one and I am curious if you left the time stock and how it runs.
Very good comments about the Pan America, I am a Pan Am owner myself and your assessment was both balanced and accurate. What smiles this bike brings to the rider. I have a 2022 and I have yet experience any issues with mine. Question for you, what cellphone holder do you use? It looks great in your video.
When the rev max engine was being design they talked about making a 500/750/975 and 1250. I am not sure what happen to those first two engines but Harley really needs to come out with the 500 and 750. The current cheapest bike the Nightster is too expensive to be the entry level bike. While a true dual sport would be nice I can't see Harley doing it but they really, really need the mid-size ADV and it needs to compete if Harley will ever be taken seriously in the space.
People keeping harping on about a ‘unicorn” they expect it to be around 135-150kg… can HD actually make a bike from ground up that light? Maybe they could, but the end cost would be huge. Then again, KTM already build one, it’s called the 690. People I think have to accept that it’s hard to make a twin that light and keep the price down. The 690 single, and other enduro singles are bikes which are below that weight.
I agree..I have a 23CVO..and 23 PAS..and the 23 is the best..I have ever owned..Ian not brand loyal..owned many different brands and models sizes..the PA is my favorite to ride for fun and all around comfort..GSA in the works this year..waiting for 1300..model..oh have had several problems with RGCVO but the PA has been rock solid..but only have Owen both bikes since Nov..of 23...1.1k on PA. 2k on RG..so still early in the honeymoon ...long run may change things..no worry though..machines have problems..you just fix them..
Rode my CVO pan am from Toledo to sturgis and back this year. Great luggage capacity, great comfort. Great handling except in south dakota crosswinds! Very suseptible to crosswinds. Really had to drop the speed across the plains. I am curious what tires you like for yours.
@@umpatas5468 they have been good in all terrain so far, pavement too. My only complaint is they don’t last long but their softness is their main benefit.
I've had a 2022 Pan Am Special since March 2023, I love it, and only had minor issues, like the starter clutch and the dealer not installing updated software at the start and when I had it serviced.
Sorry to hear. That might have been another good con to add that some dealers don't take the bike seriously either from what I have read. Luckily where I work they do but glad you're liking it.
I had an early 21 model and loved the bike but it was plagued with all the electrical issues. Traded it in and have a 24 on order. I have to say that Pan America was probably the best all around bike I've ever owned, when she was running right! The Cat heat shield does work well. I would love to see HD do a sport touring version of the bike with a17" front tire and proper fairing and good quality side cases.
I took delivery in May 2021 of a PAS and it has been a horrible experience. Electronic problems early on, I was stranded, also I had to trailer the bike to the dealer from my house. At 6500 miles the Stator quit. The electrical problems seem sorted out with software updates, but I don’t have faith mechanically. I am expecting the fuel pump, starter clutch, or ECM to go out. I live in North Idaho and the plan was to get out of traffic and into the woods. Also, there is no re-sale value, I wish it would get stolen. BTW, ‘23 model year has a side stand bracket that is beefier, it mounts to the motor and the side stand mounts to it. I have one (back) ordered to arrive in Feb ‘24. Mikes Motorbike Channel on RUclips has get info on the Pan (he owns a ‘21 also) plus he installed Bark Buster hand guards, and so did I. I have owned 6 new Harleys since 2016, including the first H-D Livewire in 2020. This Pan is my last Harley, back to the Japanese bikes for reliability.
I am sorry to hear. Some people got the short end of the stick. I had the complete opposite experience and that's not fair. I can understand your frustration.
My 22PAS is my first and last Harley. This bike is garbage. No support from the Manufacturer and the dealers obviously can't stand them as they are buried in the back of the showroom with the Live wires. Resale value is horrible (as you've stated)
QUESTION?? I've rode for years, my last bike was a '98 Softtail Springer, which I loved, but after an injury and having 5 back surgeries, one day of riding would leave me laid up hurting for the next 3+ days, I'm wanting to go back to riding, and heard good things about the Pan Am.. would it be a comfortable ride after having my surgeries?
Hmm, hard to say. What I can say is this. The Pan-Am has a upright sitting position, so it's easy to take pressure off your tailbone if needed. The suspension can be very plush and takes bumps much better than Harley's traditional suspension. Seat is plush as well. That being said it may not work due to your surgeries. My suggestion is to find a good dealer that will let you take the bike out for an hour and see how it feels or if you are in the States rent one from Eagle Rider to get a longer ride to see what a day in the saddle is like. Hope that helps
Question for you, I'm a rider in Kentucky and I ride year round want a Pan American for the weather, touring and eventually going out west to moto camp. I see a lot of European riders like the ADV bike for weather. Do you think this is a good choice. Thank you for your review of your bike.
I think when it comes to weather it's more about the gear you wear than the bike, although it is a factor. It just so happens that most ADV riders dress for all conditions due to the type of riding we do. That being said the bike does have a bit to do with it. Most ADV motorcycles have advanced rider aids that help a lot for varying conditions, plush suspension and good carrying capacity. Their versatility is what makes them so popular for weather and terrain. From what you have described as your ridding needs yes the Pan-Am or any large ADV would be great for that. Especially the camping.
You mention that some 2021 models had issues and that people still mention it when it doesn't apply to mid-2-2022 on bikes. Well, Honda had issues with the cam chain tensioner when they introduced the CX500. I bought one of these to get back into biking 15 years ago. Last weekend I went out on a group ride (most of the others have 1250 BMWs) and one guy mentions that they were unreliable, even though here in the UK they were a dispatch riders favourite.
That has always been the way. People parrot what others say when they don't have an real opinion of their own. The whole "Harley motorcycles are unreliable" is a constant battle I have to deal with at my work and it couldn't be further from the truth. Early days for the Pan-Am didn't help that stigma and gave fuel for the haters.
Thanks for the review. Have a 2021 PA-special love everything but the Seat/Instrument Cluster & Mapping-0/charging ports-0 Looking at a saddlemen seat and trying to locate a good connection for the funky plugs user the seat to run phone and accessory charging up at bars... Any suggestions? What are you running for mapping in video and bracketed? Different windscreen? thanks Side Note - Easy to do your own updates from H-D I recommend everyone keep them up to date...
The usbc port on the side of the tower does charge phones. If yours doesn’t work get it checked. I have the alumacycle gps holder installed to hold my Garmin Zumo xt. Windshield is the Harley short one.
@@AlexUlleri This USBC doesn't charge / only works when the bike is in accessory mode - not there for charging. There are 2 weird plugs under the seat to run accessories on these bikes. Thanks for the reply and info
@@kmern6979 it does work for charging when the bike is running. The two under the seat are typically used for heated gear and only work with the bike turned on. You can convert those to sae connector to run usb
Great honest pros and cons list. This comment is concerning lighting. I ride a 23 Tiger 1200 Rally Pro. The fogs are questionabe so I added some additional lighting. I chose a set of Denali D4’s, paired with a Hex EZcan PDM which allows for custom controls of the lights. They will surely light up the nighttime road into day (if you need). I usually ride with my lights at 20% day, 40% nighttime/highway. More than enough. Check em out.
You may not be a reviewer, but you did a pretty good job in doing so with your honesty anyway. It is not specific to Harley to better avoid the first model year of any new product.
Hello, as someone who owns a Pan Am and works there, I bought my 2023 sportster S September last year and was given a freedom promise trade in by september this year. I’ve got 5.3k miles on her right now, but I’d like to start going 50/50 off road. is it worth it trading for a Pan Am?
I am not sure what a freedom promise is but if you want to do off-road switching to a Pan-Am is a great idea. I always suggest test riding the bike to make sure it's the right fit first but if you like Sportster S you will love the Pan-Am, it handles better, has better suspension, more power, is more comfortable and versatile.
Really great review. I bought the first PAS delivered to my local dealer, and it was a demo to boot. Other than software gremlins (which have been mostly fixed), the crapy Nav, and the air filter location like you mentioned, it has been pretty much perfect.
I have a 21 and I agree with most. Engine replacement at 14k, I don't trust the bike to take long trips anymore. I hope to get the trust back. The fuel pump issue hasn't been addressed yet. I'm on #2.
I thought same thing with the head light not enough or maybe i need to adjust it good thing i dont ride much at night, what about fuel pump have you had to replace it?
Brother as someone who works in dealership you should know that as far as I know all V Twins have air filter under a gas tank. It has to be that way look at V-Stroms, Ducatis... parallel twins like yours KTM have it under the seat. I has to do with placements of cylinders.
If you are referring to ADV bikes I'll take your word for it as I am not familiar with the air box placement on all bikes but that is certainly not the case for all V-twins in general. Plenty of v-twins have the air filter not under the tank.
@@OrthodoxTrooper in the Harley world which I am most familiar with all the cruisers from old sportsters, dyna, softails and touring all have the filter on the side of the engine and other brands do that as well. Probably not a solution for an adv but my complaint is mostly to do with how annoying they made it to remove the tank. If it was easier I probably wouldn’t have even mentioned it.
@@AlexUlleri does it often needs cleaning? There was a fuss with Ducati Desert X, same problem and then some guy took it across Australia witch fas finest dust without cleaning and bike was fine. I thinknhe just oiled it before trip or something.
@@OrthodoxTrooper depends on your environment but typically most people do them at the 8k service intervals. An adv is done as needed based on how much dust and dirt it ate that day. Lots of people do it after each ride if there’s enough dust.
@AlexUlleri how tall are you? I'm 5'6" and sat on the PamAm @Daytona. I'm looking at the CVO and I tried to schedule test rides at two Harley Dealers but did not get a callback. How difficult is it to get it up on the kickstand? I heard what you said in the video, just trying to gauge if it's going to be impossible for me to get the PamAm up on the kickstand. Thanks in advance. If anyone else has any advice other than stretching my legs or boots with heels, I'd appreciate it 😂.
Couple things. First, Harley has a low seat. A low seat will drop you another inch. Second Kodlin USA make drop kits for the Pan-Am lowering it another 2in in the back and you can drop the front in the triple clamp to compensate.
It’s because apple CarPlay would take up the whole screen and by law you need gauges. You would not have speed, rpm, gears etc. the bike would need a second screen or a much bigger one. Old gen touring had analog gauges and the new screens are massive and CarPlay takes up only half the screen.
The Honda ST 1100 and 1300 had heat problems and owners wrapped the pipes which lowered the heat a lot, I know it does not look good but has anybody tired that? Thanks
This is the Swiss Army knife of motorcycle, a pioneer of innovation (ARH) It’s the First big bike to complete the ECO Africa race winning 10s of trophies during that race! I have a 22’ with 18,000 , I went through 4 fuel pump replacements (I believe it’s due to running the tank low on gas) which have never failed or left me stranded! A few glitches that were solved with a software update, dealer network everywhere you look, no valve maintenance, 2 year unlimited mile warranty! This is the best!
I don't remember exactly. I know I did over 180kph with the original tires not sure I ever hit the rev limiter which is probably just shy of 200kph. But I have had the anakee wilds on for so long and the bike gets twitchy on the knobs between 150 -160kph. So that's as fast as she'll go safely on those tires. Maybe someone who has road tires on the bike can chime in.
True it is possible to get it all to work but at the end of the day the system can't be relied on out in the bush and out of cell service. Would have been better if it was an actual satellite GPS system that also didn't require an app like on their touring models.
I remember the first day I got my pas. I was wearing shorts. Went for a quick ride, and it left a major red mark on my right leg. Heat was crazy. I don't recommend wearing shorts but definitely not on the pas.
The PanAm is a big dirt bike. I can ride mine like a 900cc mid size. I don’t weigh my bike down with giant block luggage. My PanAm will spank any other full sized ADV bike off road.
I went from a Softail to a Gold Wing a few years ago and I had forgotten how the softail used to burn my inner thigh. Sitting in traffic on a hot day was unbearable. The Gold Wing puts no heat whatsoever on the rider. Surprised that this engine puts out so much heat given that it's liquid cooled.
Thanks for the video. I agree with your review. Im 5 6 short and really struggle with that kick stand. I use the crown of the road to help like you said. I also made a mode (off road plus) and shut ride height off. For bush trail when I want the height And If I remember i switch to it when I stop. I also wait and roll back and forth till it goes up to high height before using the kick stand. Air box is retarded and battery. I love this bike. I live in northern Alberta and last May I rode the Us south west. 9000km worry free. It was amazing. Tent every night for 16 days. Filmed the trip from my helmet. Take care. Oh I pair my phone every time for my sena for music and control it off the bike work well. But use my phone for navigation. I gave up, but trying it again this season. Figured out a few things.
Did you know (as an employee of Moco) that Moco has had a battery and stator upgrade for 2024? Why not a bulletin to fix all the compromised 2021’s - 2023’s?
Thank you for doing this review. I am looking to drop the hammer on a used PA, but it is intimidating when there are tons of them for sale, with low mileage, and 10k less than what they sold for new a year ago. Makes my wallet get real nervous.
Same knock as the Triumph Tiger as far as the air box goes. A shitshow to get to the filter, which is necessary if you spend a lot of time on dirt. Road KIng owner and past KLR owner. Want to get a big ADV bike, liking the P.A. and the Tiger despite the air filter challenge. Both are better looking than the GS in my opinion, not a fan of the jugs sticking so far out. At 6''5" it is hard to find a well fitting bike. What is your opinion on the P.A. for bigger riders? Thanks so much for an honest, unbiased review. BTW, GO Habs!!😜
You're lucky my moms a Habs fan or I wouldn't answer your question. :) Harley makes a tallboy seat for the bike, Harley as well as other companies make risers if you need them and there may even be lower pegs available. These may or may not be needed for fitment but nothing is going to beat actually sitting on one and hopefully they have a tall seat/demo seat in stock. I find that the longer tank on the Pan-Am is just on the edge of reach for me, so for you and taller riders I can see that as being an advantage. I have a few customers in the 6 feet range that love the fitment.
As far as the airbox placement issue, I see Ducati must have consulted with Harley to determine the most inconvenient placement of the airbox. I think both companies just want the owners to bring them in for service. 😂 13:00
Thinking about a new bike that can just continue when the road turns to gravel, as is very often in ND. I would never consider a Harley except the PanAm. Thanks for this video. I'm so stuck and mad that motorcycle dealers don't let you test ride for the most part. If I go to a car dealer I can say "I want to drive that," and take it out.
@@AlexUlleri Thanks man. I haven't been to one because I'm not into Harleys at all. I'm a eurofag. Also like Japanese bikes too. I'm done with the PA though. Might need to make a visit.
I talked to a couple guys that have ridden it and they really didn't like it. I think it's a sharp looking bike, I hope to try it and make my own opinion.
Really want to love the PA... No way Id of bought 1st few years. I own a couple HDs (built bagger and Dyna LRS) in addition to other makes. Now the bugs are worked out and would love to get one. Where Im at with my touring, Ive been super spoiled with shaftdrive on my interstate tourer ADV. I just dont want to screw with chain drive touring interstate. Yes, I own a few chain drive bikes and live with maintenance with em.
I was very interested in the 975 bike that was supposed to be released last fall. Stupidly HD canq'd it. Lost interest in ever owning a another HD. Last one i had was a 1984 1200 sportster. Got rid of it after i spent more getting it repaired in the year i owned it than i paid for it brand new.
I will 100% buy a bike with airbox under the tank that I can daily ride in heavy rain than the typical open air filter on harley's. Hence why I traded in my street bob. I can go to work in sun, and have to ride home in downpours, and an air filter sock can't cut it
Yeah that's a good point. I went on a trip with my Street Bob and forgot the sock and nearly drowned my bike in heavy rain. It was sputtering down the road losing power. We survived, barely.
All of the big so called “adv” Bikes are too heavy. They’re all over tech’d. If you’re riding a full size bike in this class off road at 100% Full Tilt Boogie then more power to you and post videos so all of us can marvel at you! I like the PA as well as the Yamaha T12 as do it all Bikes. Ride what YOU like and a big middle finger to anyone who talks smack about rides they don’t own.
Agreed, I never understood people who smack others for their bike choices. As long as they enjoy two wheels it’s good enough for me. The reason I went big adv was the commute to the off-road. When I owned the KTM sure it was great off-road but getting there was tough as I live in a big city and it’s an hour ride on the highway to get anywhere remote. I know I give up off-road capability with the Pan-Am but I gain range.
If you want an adventure bike it's your best bet with the adaptive ride height. Maybe get the low seat as well. You will still be on your tippy toes but will be better than air on other big ADVs. My buddy is 5'7" ish and rides it. I would say go sit on one and see.
I had one for six months, and it was never any one big thing, but all the little things (but I did have the inaugural year). Little things like kickstand being too far out, if you have the kickstand out, put the center stand down, but now you can't get the kickstand back into position (that's stupid). With both the stock and Sundowner seat it never fully sat fully locked into position, you can move it around. Try that on a BMW, Triumph, KTM, they are fully locked into position and don't rattle around. Mode switch location. I get this is a Harley, but get rid of those ugly and useless sound system buttons. Put the modes switch there! Having the mode switch on the very top of the the throttle side is a very poor decision, even with large hands (I wear XL gloves), I could barely get to the mode switch. Battery position. While I never had a problem with mine, putting the battery under the bash plate where you're going to get water and mud just seems like a recipe for trouble. I was never in love with the LCD interface and I did have mine before they bumped up the font size, so I'm sure that issue went away, but I had issues reading it. I also thought the HD navigation system was pretty useless, but I think the same about all the nav systems on the market. While I have have issues with the Garmin/BMW nav system on the GS, the integration is second to none. Triumph and HD have both gone down the route of integrating it with a phone app which is fine until it isn't (US and Canada still have lots of places where there is zero cell coverage) and trying to preload and plan routes outside the bike is problematic at best. I was happy to see somebody finally came out with a GPS mount above the LCD display in your video, but that's something HD should have thought of... While not perfect, Buell hooked up with Garmin and and like BMW had a dedicated GPS for the Ulysses, HD should do the same. Engine was awesome, but that didn't make up for the things I think an ADV bike should have.
I agree on the quickstand. It made me chuckle when I notice that. I don't agree with the mode button as I just use my index finger to tap it. I like the placement. I like the seat and I feel locked in but we all have different shapes. Correct, nav system doesn't work for an adv and a GPS is needed when out of cell service. Unless Harley has a GPS to sell they wont make a mount for it. Thanks for the comment, lot's of great points.
To say this bike is all good now is not completely true .three's still plenty in the forums of folks having issue . The biggest issue is Harley service centers not knowing how 🎉 are actually wanting to even work on the bikes let alone wanting to sell them if I'm honest 15:01
When I say they are good I am talking about the main issues affecting the early bikes. Bikes will brake down, that is true of all bikes. The rate of issues is the same as any other bike in the line up.
Most enjoyable bike to ride out of the 22 motorcycles I have owned. That said, it is the worst bike I have ever owned, so many issues, lives at the dealership. I have had more problems with my PAS then all my other bikes combined and it is not even close!
your saying the PAS is better then the KTM ADV lol if you want a 50/50 you go with the Husqvarna Norden 901 id never trust a Harley off road...... plus the price you have to be brand loyal for what you get.... 15k less save your self the headache buy a NORDEN!!!!!!
Or just buy your first one two years later for $11k and skip buying new. Saves a ton of money. But I am glad there are tons of people out the willing to take the hit for me :)
We have a 2022 and 2023. They both do not inspire confidence. My 2023 had loose improperly torqued fittings, my usb was loose, and both bikes have had black screens, my 2023 failed to charge. Everyone we know that has a Pan Am has had issues…including the 2023. So if you are telling the public this bike is reliable…you are lying to your audience.
I can only speak from my experience and what I see happening here. You are living a different experience, clearly and I am sorry. If you have a good dealer all the updates should be done and your other issues fixed.
I got my GI edition about 9 weeks ago. Best bike i ve ever owned. Most people are missing out on this one. Ive had the whole harley lineup over the years.Mostly cvos , dyna , fat boys and even custome choppers. The Pan is the best PERIOD!!!!!!!@@noahgagnon7972
Aah man your not seriously comparing this to a 1250GSA ?? 😳 The only comparison is price !! And the Harley is MASSIVELY over priced !! Especially when you take into account its resale values 😢😢 My pal lost $9,000 in 12 months on his !! Thats no joke !! The electric issues arr NOT solved !! They are better at best ! The hard wear rusts on the 2021 models, has this been remedied ?? There is a danger of the kick stand going through the engine and your response was , " the bike has no frame , where else can they put it ? " Hey iv got an idea pal , maybe we ought to put a damn frame on this monstrosity !! So we have a sound place to put a kick stand as they might want to get off at some point 🤔?? You keep saying your not an engineer ?? Neither are we mate , maybe" YOUR" Engineers should make the bike "properly " BEFORE putting it on sale !! I would tell everybody looking at this , if you have just bought one of these and it is giving you problems, take it back and demand a full refund !! If they refuse , leave the bike there and put in writing that you have NO CONFIDENCE in this product any longer , you do not want it fixed as it was not fit for purpose from first sale , take no notice of any 14 day nonsense, I have done this before , any court will allow you up to 6 months if your case is legitimate, EG going back and fourth with a NEW bike and remember the resale values on these are horrendous!! I kid you not ! In writing give a time period of maybe a week for your refund, explaining that after this you will be going to small claims court , this initially will cost you but nowhere near what you lose in value, plus ANY COSTS are part of your claim and i assure you , you will win !! And get every penny back including costs 😉 You say other bikes are too tall lol 😆 Get yourself some big soles on your shoes pal or buy a BMW 1250GSA with the small frame , you'll thank me when you come to sell it 😉 But then you work for Harley so you can ride them for free cant you , Others are losing thousands on this rubbish !!
Just tuned in.
Have owned a 2022 PAS since June of 22.
Currently has 22,090 miles I put on it.
I use it as a daily rider for commuter, backroads twisty corner carving and long haul touring.
I love this bike very much.
Its number 49 of bikes Ive owned and ridden.
Only issue so far was a noisy fuel pump replaced under warranty.
Fortunately my dealership is Rev Max friendly and the lead tech owns and rides a 2021 PAS.
Most of the dislikes that I have read about do not bother me at all.
Side stand, button locations engine heat wind screen etc.
Having owned 49 various types and makes of bikes I adapt very easily.
Here in the NE US the engine heat is welcome most of the year.
My biggest concern is the reluctance of many dealers to embrace this machine.
Also the MOCO lack of advertising of it.
Would really hate to see it go the way of The HD backed Buell motorcycles ( I owned 11 of them).
The Pan America is what the Buell Ulysses was trying to be.
Well I will be subscribed and tuning in to keep up with your experiences on your PA.
Keep the videos coming.
Thank you ,
Paul
Much appreciated. I had that fear as well early last year when the 975 version didn’t come out as expected and I thought Harley may have given up. Internally I can say Harley looks committed now. Our training site has a lot of material and competition assessment. The info is there for dealers to learn. Some are just stuck in the dark ages. Future is bright but they need a mid-size adv to really compete.
@AlexUlleri
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Its the midsized adv market showing the most growth at this time.
I really dont see how a 975 PA will fullfill as a mud size machine.
Given that the external engine dimensions are the same as the 1250.
As you said in your presentation I too had read that they Rev Max platform was going to be a modular designed unit that would be based on a common crankcase utilizing a variety of cylinder sizes and bores to achieve a variety of engines with various bore and strokes.
This would allow Harley to compete in a variety of levels of the motorcycle market..
Time will tell.
BMW has had much success doing this while continuing their iconic boxer line of bikes.
Harley should so likewise to remain competetive and innovative.
I hope so.
@@paulwojnar2291 agreed. I read somewhere that they could not get the weight down and may have gone back to the drawing board. I’ve had the same fear about the engine weight. I hope they figure it out or the Pan-Am might be a one off. Fingers crossed.
Hell yeah Paul.
11 Buells? Nice! i rode Buell for 15 years.
I have a 2023 and the heat is a non-issue for me and I live in Florida. The air diverter on the left of the bike, with the catalytic converter heat shield manage the heat effectively. Back in the day, I owned a Buell, XB12X that you could cook an egg off. My Pan America has performed flawlessly. It is amazing.
Great to hear! Thanks
Awesome!!!
Only heat on the bike that is a minor annoyance to me is the rear cylinder head on my right thigh when I'm stopped.
Not hot enough to burn instantly, but its very uncomfortable and would burn you if you just ignored the discomfort.
@@Wyrmjello I still am looking for hurricane heads for my sportster rebuild. But you're right. The pan am is amazing.
I purchased a 21 Pan Am and had no real issues with it but there were glitches here and there. Sold the bike in 2023 and purchased the 2024 Pan Am. Night and day difference in the bikes. No electrical issues, glitches, or problems. The rear brake works now. All in all I would say the first year bike was not quite as refined as the 2024. This bike is just a blast to ride. By far one of the best motorcycles I've owned. If I had to have one thing negative to say, it would be the tail light is a joke. Small and barely visible when you have the tail pack on. Almost immediately installed the Denali tail/brake light plate kit and this really improved visibility from the rear.
Buying another one has crossed my mind.
does the windshield rattle?
@@khakimzhanmiras not really but I have the shorty one now
@@AlexUlleri does that resolve the rattling? I only rode one briefly as a rental, never looked into the cause of the issue.
@@khakimzhanmiras when I had the stock windshield I did not have problem with it. Maybe the rental unit had loose one. It should not rattle. I’d go test ride a new one from a dealer.
I just picked up a 2024 Pan America CVO this past Tuesday! Absolutely luv it!
Trying to trade the road glide for the pan am special tomorrow. One test ride and I'm done with baggers forever. The CVO looks incredible.
Dude! So jealous!!! I see your handle is Road Glide...i have a Road Glide and am very interested in the CVO PA...and im wondering if i keep the RG...?
2022 PAS, no major issues, just program issues that were taken care of with software updates. Still on original battery.
I've owned both. Sold my BMW to buy the Pan Am and have not been disappointed. BMW has some annoying traits that you did not hit on which have plagued the bike for years. Overall though, I thought your review was well done. The Pan Am is not perfect but neither was the BMW. I'm at 7500 miles now with zero issues. Overall what has impressed me most about the Pan Am is its ability to chew up miles without effort. What impressed me the least about the Pan Am and something Harley really needs to address is the size and placement of the rear tail light. Small and hard to see with full bags on the bike. Borderline dangerous. I rigged aftermarket LED's on my tail box to help with that. Otherwise, good scoot.
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While I have given the GSA a few good floggings and have ridden enough bikes to make a quick assessment that it's in the same ballpark as the Harley. I much preferred the engine on the Pan-Am and preferred it's slimmer design to the GS among other things. :)
agreed@@AlexUlleri
My dad had BMWs and I've always wanted one. The only thing keeping me away is there is no dealer anywhere near me. That makes the Harley very tempting. Even the KTM dealer is 3.5 hours away and Idk if they're even competent, as my used 390 Duke came overfilled and leaking oil when I bought it with like 800 miles on it.
Are you talking about a gs1250. If so you are full of it. The gs is superior to the panamerican.
@@AdamND701I wouldn’t touch a Pan, because the dealers here are woeful in Australia with service and aftermarket. I bought a GSA because a) warranty - 5 years, with 3 years roadside assist b) there are some Pan owners which have had a string of problems, more so then BMW c) was able to test ride the BMW d) low centre of gravity e) fuel range f) range of accessories from the aftermarket g) shaft drive - less to do on long trips h) air filter access - going on a long trip through the desert requires air filter checks. I cannot be arsed removing the tank i) refinement h) if the dealers don’t play ball, I have a bloody good specialist around the corner i) access to BMW Safaris
As a multiple Honda Goldwing owner, the Airbox issues....it's almost as if the engineers bought the air filter and then designed the bike around it. It's ridiculous that they bury maintenance parts so deep and make it a "shop visit" for the average owner. On an ADV bike, it's a TERRIBLE mistake, considering if you actually USE the bike for ADV, the airbox needs to be checked and maintained almost daily in harsh conditions.
One thing I didn’t mention is the bike has two spark plugs per head and one of the two also requires the removal of the tank. Not ideal but the rest of the bike makes up for it.
It’s only difficult the first time! Just like most things! Taking the gas tank off is common nowadays with big adventure bikes!
No valve adjustment for the Pan American and its relatively easy maintenance!
They also have affordable maintenance plans!
3yr maintenance for under $2500 ! Pays for itself in 5 services!
18,000 miles on my 22’ best adventure bike out there! It’s also the first big adventure bike to complete the ECO AFRICA race!
BMW just stopped all sells on the new 1300 gs for faulty relay switches!
I own the 2023 RA1250S. The heat is a non issue for me... I did put the aftermarket (larger, tougher) skid plate on the bike early on. For serious off-road the new skid plate is a MUST.
I agree with all your points for the most part; honest reliable truthful review. I have absolutely had a blast on my Pan America Special... my favorite bike ever.
The two pain in the ass points I agree are the kick-stand, and the air-box. All live-able.
This bike is a keeper!
marcus
Glad you like it Marcus. More people spreading the gospel. Thanks for watching.
Good honest review! I also have a 21 and absolutely love the bike, pretty much the same feedback as you and making adjustments as I go. I did add the daymaker lights and they make a world of difference!!
Right on! 👍🏻
Very well done!
I purchased my first H-D touring machine in 1975, a ‘71 FLH and I’ve had an H-D touring machine since then.
In 2021 I bought a 1250S and I’m absolutely smitten with this machine…yeah, it’s been a little fussy, but after 11k miles it’s never left me walking. There is an H-D TSB that will sort out these early machines.
I was so excited about this bike. Was #1 on the wait list when they first came in. Electrical and battery issues were annoying but bearable. After two years of ownership, and really wanting to LOVE this bike, the negatives finally won out and I traded it in for a KTM 890 Adventure. It has been an adventure.....
Excellent and fair review. I have a 2021 - and I've had no issues with it. 27,000 miles so far. The picking up issues is a real thing!!! LOL! It took me months to get the technique correct. I was puzzled as to why I could easily pick up mu 860+ pound Ultra Limited but struggled with the 560 pound Pan America. Then I looked at the videos carefully and realized that with the Ultra Limited, if you sit on the seat, you are automatically in the correct position. When lifting. This is not the case with the Pan America. You have to be at a MUCH more canted angle to align properly on the Pan America. In the correct position, your shoulders, hip bones, and ankles are in the same plane. Your knees are bent, and your arms are fully expanded. It does not matter what angle your body is in reference to the ground as long as you maintain that alignment. If you do that, all you have to do is keep your back straight and straighten your legs. The bike pops right up!! And all the work is done by your thighs, with no work done by your back. This works every time - and I'm a small almost 60 year old man with a torn left rotator cuff. It also helps to unload the top box and high side pannier first if you REALLY want to make it effortless. Please try it electively at home. Once you get used to doing that, it will greatly increase your confidence with riding alone off road.
I have to find that video than. I dropped it alone the other day and really struggled. Luckily someone passed by and helped.
Good review. I would agree with most of what you said, especially how much fun the bike is. My '22 with 38,000 miles has been running great since the March 2023 service bulletins were performed. I would add that the HD Connect interface is MUCH improved since I purchased the MC in February of 2022, and now am confident using the stock navigation system.
I'll have to see how much it's improved. I haven't connected the bike since I bought it three years ago. Thanks for the heads up.
Gary I have a 22 also .
Glad to hear yours is going well at 38,000.
As a none Harley guy, bikes like this and the Bronx are EXACTLY the bikes they need to branch out to.
Agreed. They need to do a better job with the rev-max platform.
Excellent review of an awesome bike. This ride is always a thrill. No issues with reliability. My only problem has been a bad battery on the key fob. I agree it would be great to see the Motor Company put more advertising and dealer training behind it. There should be an adventure display, clothing, parts and bikes in every dealer.
I own 1250S 2021 , and I'm really happy with that. This thing is highly recommended . In my opinion PanAmerica is much better then BMW GS , or Honda Affrica . Engine is masterpiece, suspension is unbelievable. This bike worth it's money, for sure.
I agree with your video. I owned a 2022 Nightster and I sold it for a 2023 Street Bob. I love the bike as it is a no frill motorcycle without all of the electronics that failed on my Nightster. Did you have any ABS issues? My front wheel would lock up constantly on hard breaking and no one seemed to have an idea as to a fix for said problem.
Honestly I didn't have many issues at all with my bike. A few thrown codes, limp mode once. Had my right hand control replaced because the connection on the starter switch failed and that's it. Zero ABS issue, in fact works great on and off-road. Street Bobs a fantastic bike, tones of torque and very agile. Enjoy and thanks for watching and commenting.
When I first saw the PA, I thought it looked bizarre! I remember thinking that they were surely going to change the looks before they released it, right? Nope, and I'm so glad they didn't! Now, I think it looks awesome! I agree that it's a work of art. It is decidedly Harley Davidson! That big, muscular stance with the semi shark nose front end flowing into the tank and that sexy V Twin at the heart is gorgeous! Great looking bike! I really, really want one! If i didn't love my Low Rider S so much, I would absolutely get one! Once i get my FXLRS paid off, though? Hopefully, Harley doesn't discontinue it prematurely? I know it doesn't sell like they want, and Harley is struggling to sell anything right now!
Nice review.. Also good to see comments from other owners who have had good luck with the PA. I wanted one of these when they first came out but they really seemed plagued with electronic issues so I bought an Africa Twin. Last year, I looked at them again but ended up going with a new R1250 GSA. I love the look of the PA from the Rider's right, but the other side looks unfinished with wires dangling everywhere. The GSA has been good, 13,500 miles in 9 months on and off road, but I don't like the telelever front suspension off road at all. Fine for gravel but on rocky trails it's as unpredictable as an Italian woman. I hope HD continues to dial in the PA. Like you mentioned, some of the design elements and lines are art. But if HD is going to play in this market, they have to keep moving forward. No resting on laurels in the ADV categories these days.
Agreed. That is one thing that scares me about Harley. Upgrades come very slow and the new CEO is all about the core customers which has me worried about the future of the RevMax platform.
I have seen the same complaints about the nightser. Is it the engine, or is Harley just giving up?
No it's not the engine. The engine is amazing. It's just a focus thing with him. He wants to focus on the core customer base and give them new products...which means a focus on touring. My hope is we will see something new mid season for the Revmax: A new Sportster or finally the Pan-Am 975
@@AlexUlleri Great point, their focus is all over the place. If HD does a 975 ADV, they need to come hard! Competing with the Ducati Desert X, KTM 890, Nordin 901, the new GSs, the AT, and the Tiger 900, to name a few won't be easy.
@@AlexUlleri I should've been more specific. I meant with the wiring.
Yes the arrow headers with tbr muffler made my exhaust 40% cooler and increases the power.
Cool thanks for letting us know. Can I ask how’s the bike running? Typically when you change the head pipe in a bike you need to tune it and Harley has no tunes for the bike. I believe fuel Moto makes one and I am curious if you left the time stock and how it runs.
With the Arrow headers, does it have a catalytic converter installed in the pipe? If not, does it throw a code for the O2 sensor readings?
nice to get a review by a guy that has spent some real time with the bike.
Thanks. Hope it was informative.
Very good comments about the Pan America, I am a Pan Am owner myself and your assessment was both balanced and accurate. What smiles this bike brings to the rider. I have a 2022 and I have yet experience any issues with mine. Question for you, what cellphone holder do you use? It looks great in your video.
Thanks. The one in the video is a quad lock on their x sticky mount with one tab cut off to make it fit. Works really well.
Owned one for two years. Tried to like it, learned to hate it. So relieved to scrape it off my shoe
Wish they would make a 650 dual sport to take on the Pacific Northwest. Harley please Make the Unicorn!!!!!!!!
When the rev max engine was being design they talked about making a 500/750/975 and 1250. I am not sure what happen to those first two engines but Harley really needs to come out with the 500 and 750. The current cheapest bike the Nightster is too expensive to be the entry level bike. While a true dual sport would be nice I can't see Harley doing it but they really, really need the mid-size ADV and it needs to compete if Harley will ever be taken seriously in the space.
I’ll take the 650 too
People keeping harping on about a ‘unicorn” they expect it to be around 135-150kg… can HD actually make a bike from ground up that light? Maybe they could, but the end cost would be huge. Then again, KTM already build one, it’s called the 690. People I think have to accept that it’s hard to make a twin that light and keep the price down. The 690 single, and other enduro singles are bikes which are below that weight.
Great review! Great insight from your personal experience.
I agree..I have a 23CVO..and 23 PAS..and the 23 is the best..I have ever owned..Ian not brand loyal..owned many different brands and models sizes..the PA is my favorite to ride for fun and all around comfort..GSA in the works this year..waiting for 1300..model..oh have had several problems with RGCVO but the PA has been rock solid..but only have Owen both bikes since Nov..of 23...1.1k on PA. 2k on RG..so still early in the honeymoon ...long run may change things..no worry though..machines have problems..you just fix them..
Thanks for sharing. I agree there’s something about the PA that makes it exciting to ride.
Best bike i have ever had. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Same!
Rode my CVO pan am from Toledo to sturgis and back this year. Great luggage capacity, great comfort. Great handling except in south dakota crosswinds! Very suseptible to crosswinds. Really had to drop the speed across the plains. I am curious what tires you like for yours.
I am on my third set of Anakee Wilds
@@AlexUlleri thanks! How are they in sand?
@@umpatas5468 they have been good in all terrain so far, pavement too. My only complaint is they don’t last long but their softness is their main benefit.
@@AlexUlleri I don't mind changing tires every 5k. The stickier the rubber the better.
I've had a 2022 Pan Am Special since March 2023, I love it, and only had minor issues, like the starter clutch and the dealer not installing updated software at the start and when I had it serviced.
Sorry to hear. That might have been another good con to add that some dealers don't take the bike seriously either from what I have read. Luckily where I work they do but glad you're liking it.
I had an early 21 model and loved the bike but it was plagued with all the electrical issues. Traded it in and have a 24 on order. I have to say that Pan America was probably the best all around bike I've ever owned, when she was running right! The Cat heat shield does work well. I would love to see HD do a sport touring version of the bike with a17" front tire and proper fairing and good quality side cases.
Thanks for watching. Glad you didn't give up and ordered a 24. What color? A road touring bike with this engine would be sick.
I guess the Alpine green, my 21 was Orange with a black nose and I loved that combination.@@AlexUlleri
@@fwg1961 Good choice.
I took delivery in May 2021 of a PAS and it has been a horrible experience. Electronic problems early on, I was stranded, also I had to trailer the bike to the dealer from my house. At 6500 miles the Stator quit. The electrical problems seem sorted out with software updates, but I don’t have faith mechanically. I am expecting the fuel pump, starter clutch, or ECM to go out. I live in North Idaho and the plan was to get out of traffic and into the woods.
Also, there is no re-sale value, I wish it would get stolen. BTW, ‘23 model year has a side stand bracket that is beefier, it mounts to the motor and the side stand mounts to it. I have one (back) ordered to arrive in Feb ‘24. Mikes Motorbike Channel on RUclips has get info on the Pan (he owns a ‘21 also) plus he installed Bark Buster hand guards, and so did I.
I have owned 6 new Harleys since 2016, including the first H-D Livewire in 2020. This Pan is my last Harley, back to the Japanese bikes for reliability.
I am sorry to hear. Some people got the short end of the stick. I had the complete opposite experience and that's not fair. I can understand your frustration.
My 22PAS is my first and last Harley. This bike is garbage. No support from the Manufacturer and the dealers obviously can't stand them as they are buried in the back of the showroom with the Live wires.
Resale value is horrible (as you've stated)
I have 2022 Special. Cool bike. I’m trading it in for the Ducati Multistrata Rally in November.
Nice, looks like a nice bike.
QUESTION??
I've rode for years, my last bike was a '98 Softtail Springer, which I loved, but after an injury and having 5 back surgeries, one day of riding would leave me laid up hurting for the next 3+ days, I'm wanting to go back to riding, and heard good things about the Pan Am.. would it be a comfortable ride after having my surgeries?
Hmm, hard to say. What I can say is this. The Pan-Am has a upright sitting position, so it's easy to take pressure off your tailbone if needed. The suspension can be very plush and takes bumps much better than Harley's traditional suspension. Seat is plush as well. That being said it may not work due to your surgeries. My suggestion is to find a good dealer that will let you take the bike out for an hour and see how it feels or if you are in the States rent one from Eagle Rider to get a longer ride to see what a day in the saddle is like. Hope that helps
Best video on pan am yet
Question for you, I'm a rider in Kentucky and I ride year round want a Pan American for the weather, touring and eventually going out west to moto camp. I see a lot of European riders like the ADV bike for weather. Do you think this is a good choice. Thank you for your review of your bike.
I think when it comes to weather it's more about the gear you wear than the bike, although it is a factor. It just so happens that most ADV riders dress for all conditions due to the type of riding we do. That being said the bike does have a bit to do with it. Most ADV motorcycles have advanced rider aids that help a lot for varying conditions, plush suspension and good carrying capacity. Their versatility is what makes them so popular for weather and terrain.
From what you have described as your ridding needs yes the Pan-Am or any large ADV would be great for that. Especially the camping.
I have a question for you riders, if anyone can answer honestly. Has this bike been tested in Moab and Baja?
You mention that some 2021 models had issues and that people still mention it when it doesn't apply to mid-2-2022 on bikes. Well, Honda had issues with the cam chain tensioner when they introduced the CX500. I bought one of these to get back into biking 15 years ago. Last weekend I went out on a group ride (most of the others have 1250 BMWs) and one guy mentions that they were unreliable, even though here in the UK they were a dispatch riders favourite.
That has always been the way. People parrot what others say when they don't have an real opinion of their own. The whole "Harley motorcycles are unreliable" is a constant battle I have to deal with at my work and it couldn't be further from the truth. Early days for the Pan-Am didn't help that stigma and gave fuel for the haters.
Thanks for the review. Have a 2021 PA-special love everything but the Seat/Instrument Cluster & Mapping-0/charging ports-0 Looking at a saddlemen seat and trying to locate a good connection for the funky plugs user the seat to run phone and accessory charging up at bars... Any suggestions? What are you running for mapping in video and bracketed? Different windscreen? thanks
Side Note - Easy to do your own updates from H-D I recommend everyone keep them up to date...
The usbc port on the side of the tower does charge phones. If yours doesn’t work get it checked. I have the alumacycle gps holder installed to hold my Garmin Zumo xt. Windshield is the Harley short one.
@@AlexUlleri This USBC doesn't charge / only works when the bike is in accessory mode - not there for charging. There are 2 weird plugs under the seat to run accessories on these bikes. Thanks for the reply and info
@@kmern6979 it does work for charging when the bike is running. The two under the seat are typically used for heated gear and only work with the bike turned on. You can convert those to sae connector to run usb
Great honest pros and cons list.
This comment is concerning lighting. I ride a 23 Tiger 1200 Rally Pro. The fogs are questionabe so I added some additional lighting. I chose a set of Denali D4’s, paired with a Hex EZcan PDM which allows for custom controls of the lights. They will surely light up the nighttime road into day (if you need). I usually ride with my lights at 20% day, 40% nighttime/highway. More than enough.
Check em out.
Denali look the business for sure.
You may not be a reviewer, but you did a pretty good job in doing so with your honesty anyway. It is not specific to Harley to better avoid the first model year of any new product.
I know but I was smitten with the bike and could not resist. Lucky for me it worked out.
Hello, as someone who owns a Pan Am and works there, I bought my 2023 sportster S September last year and was given a freedom promise trade in by september this year. I’ve got 5.3k miles on her right now, but I’d like to start going 50/50 off road. is it worth it trading for a Pan Am?
I am not sure what a freedom promise is but if you want to do off-road switching to a Pan-Am is a great idea. I always suggest test riding the bike to make sure it's the right fit first but if you like Sportster S you will love the Pan-Am, it handles better, has better suspension, more power, is more comfortable and versatile.
Very comprehensive, well thought out review
Really great review. I bought the first PAS delivered to my local dealer, and it was a demo to boot. Other than software gremlins (which have been mostly fixed), the crapy Nav, and the air filter location like you mentioned, it has been pretty much perfect.
Great to hear another 2021 survivor story 😁.
I have a 21 and I agree with most. Engine replacement at 14k, I don't trust the bike to take long trips anymore. I hope to get the trust back.
The fuel pump issue hasn't been addressed yet. I'm on #2.
Bummer, hope you get it sorted and fall in love again.
Good review for a guy that doesn’t do reviews!
Haha, thanks Brian.
youre real funny
I thought same thing with the head light not enough or maybe i need to adjust it good thing i dont ride much at night, what about fuel pump have you had to replace it?
I haven’t had any issues so far with the pump. Fingers crossed as my warranty period is over now.
You think the Panamerica airbox is a problem. Try getting to the air filter on a Goldwing!
That bad eh!
@@AlexUlleri Yes. Takes hours to remove all the body work and then there’s a lot more to remove to get to the air box!
Brother as someone who works in dealership you should know that as far as I know all V Twins have air filter under a gas tank. It has to be that way look at V-Stroms, Ducatis... parallel twins like yours KTM have it under the seat. I has to do with placements of cylinders.
If you are referring to ADV bikes I'll take your word for it as I am not familiar with the air box placement on all bikes but that is certainly not the case for all V-twins in general. Plenty of v-twins have the air filter not under the tank.
@@AlexUlleri which ones?
@@OrthodoxTrooper in the Harley world which I am most familiar with all the cruisers from old sportsters, dyna, softails and touring all have the filter on the side of the engine and other brands do that as well. Probably not a solution for an adv but my complaint is mostly to do with how annoying they made it to remove the tank. If it was easier I probably wouldn’t have even mentioned it.
@@AlexUlleri does it often needs cleaning? There was a fuss with Ducati Desert X, same problem and then some guy took it across Australia witch fas finest dust without cleaning and bike was fine. I thinknhe just oiled it before trip or something.
@@OrthodoxTrooper depends on your environment but typically most people do them at the 8k service intervals. An adv is done as needed based on how much dust and dirt it ate that day. Lots of people do it after each ride if there’s enough dust.
@AlexUlleri how tall are you? I'm 5'6" and sat on the PamAm @Daytona. I'm looking at the CVO and I tried to schedule test rides at two Harley Dealers but did not get a callback. How difficult is it to get it up on the kickstand? I heard what you said in the video, just trying to gauge if it's going to be impossible for me to get the PamAm up on the kickstand. Thanks in advance. If anyone else has any advice other than stretching my legs or boots with heels, I'd appreciate it 😂.
Couple things. First, Harley has a low seat. A low seat will drop you another inch. Second Kodlin USA make drop kits for the Pan-Am lowering it another 2in in the back and you can drop the front in the triple clamp to compensate.
...and I am 5'8" and use the stock seat in the low position.
Why is that the apple carplay not available on the pan , but it is on touring boombox? That would resolve a lot of issue for nav etc…
It’s because apple CarPlay would take up the whole screen and by law you need gauges. You would not have speed, rpm, gears etc. the bike would need a second screen or a much bigger one. Old gen touring had analog gauges and the new screens are massive and CarPlay takes up only half the screen.
Make sense, never thought about that! Thanks for the response! Have a great day!
The Honda ST 1100 and 1300 had heat problems and owners wrapped the pipes which lowered the heat a lot, I know it does not look good but has anybody tired that? Thanks
This is the Swiss Army knife of motorcycle, a pioneer of innovation (ARH) It’s the First big bike to complete the ECO Africa race winning 10s of trophies during that race!
I have a 22’ with 18,000 , I went through 4 fuel pump replacements (I believe it’s due to running the tank low on gas) which have never failed or left me stranded! A few glitches that were solved with a software update, dealer network everywhere you look, no valve maintenance, 2 year unlimited mile warranty! This is the best!
Agreed!!!
What’s the top speed from the factory without modifications?
I don't remember exactly. I know I did over 180kph with the original tires not sure I ever hit the rev limiter which is probably just shy of 200kph. But I have had the anakee wilds on for so long and the bike gets twitchy on the knobs between 150 -160kph. So that's as fast as she'll go safely on those tires. Maybe someone who has road tires on the bike can chime in.
There’s a couple of steps to go through to get your iPhone and Sena connected and it works great.
True it is possible to get it all to work but at the end of the day the system can't be relied on out in the bush and out of cell service. Would have been better if it was an actual satellite GPS system that also didn't require an app like on their touring models.
@@AlexUlleri you’re right, the navigation does require the H-D app open and running on your iPhone which is a little annoying.
I remember the first day I got my pas. I was wearing shorts. Went for a quick ride, and it left a major red mark on my right leg. Heat was crazy. I don't recommend wearing shorts but definitely not on the pas.
Oh no 😬
The PanAm is a big dirt bike. I can ride mine like a 900cc mid size. I don’t weigh my bike down with giant block luggage. My PanAm will spank any other full sized ADV bike off road.
Hell yeah!
I went from a Softail to a Gold Wing a few years ago and I had forgotten how the softail used to burn my inner thigh. Sitting in traffic on a hot day was unbearable. The Gold Wing puts no heat whatsoever on the rider. Surprised that this engine puts out so much heat given that it's liquid cooled.
I think it has something to do with the restrictive emission laws.
Good observation/review. Would be interesting to see how it compares to R1300GS.
Agreed looking forward to seeing long term reviews. Thanks for the kind words.
Thanks for the video. I agree with your review. Im 5 6 short and really struggle with that kick stand. I use the crown of the road to help like you said. I also made a mode (off road plus) and shut ride height off. For bush trail when I want the height And If I remember i switch to it when I stop. I also wait and roll back and forth till it goes up to high height before using the kick stand. Air box is retarded and battery. I love this bike. I live in northern Alberta and last May I rode the Us south west. 9000km worry free. It was amazing. Tent every night for 16 days. Filmed the trip from my helmet. Take care.
Oh I pair my phone every time for my sena for music and control it off the bike work well. But use my phone for navigation. I gave up, but trying it again this season. Figured out a few things.
Awesome. Thanks for watching and ride safe.
Did you know (as an employee of Moco) that Moco has had a battery and stator upgrade for 2024?
Why not a bulletin to fix all the compromised 2021’s - 2023’s?
That's a great question. I would love if they did that.
Thank you for doing this review. I am looking to drop the hammer on a used PA, but it is intimidating when there are tons of them for sale, with low mileage, and 10k less than what they sold for new a year ago. Makes my wallet get real nervous.
I get it. People gave up early but go read the facebook groups and you will find a tone of happy people.
Thank you.
Same knock as the Triumph Tiger as far as the air box goes. A shitshow to get to the filter, which is necessary if you spend a lot of time on dirt. Road KIng owner and past KLR owner. Want to get a big ADV bike, liking the P.A. and the Tiger despite the air filter challenge. Both are better looking than the GS in my opinion, not a fan of the jugs sticking so far out. At 6''5" it is hard to find a well fitting bike. What is your opinion on the P.A. for bigger riders? Thanks so much for an honest, unbiased review. BTW, GO Habs!!😜
You're lucky my moms a Habs fan or I wouldn't answer your question. :) Harley makes a tallboy seat for the bike, Harley as well as other companies make risers if you need them and there may even be lower pegs available. These may or may not be needed for fitment but nothing is going to beat actually sitting on one and hopefully they have a tall seat/demo seat in stock. I find that the longer tank on the Pan-Am is just on the edge of reach for me, so for you and taller riders I can see that as being an advantage. I have a few customers in the 6 feet range that love the fitment.
@@AlexUlleri Thanks for the info. Momma's a smart lady. 👍 Cheers.
As far as the airbox placement issue, I see Ducati must have consulted with Harley to determine the most inconvenient placement of the airbox. I think both companies just want the owners to bring them in for service. 😂 13:00
I wouldn’t put it past them lol
Oh they did. Idc. I'm ok with not servicing mine.
Thinking about a new bike that can just continue when the road turns to gravel, as is very often in ND. I would never consider a Harley except the PanAm. Thanks for this video. I'm so stuck and mad that motorcycle dealers don't let you test ride for the most part. If I go to a car dealer I can say "I want to drive that," and take it out.
Most Harley dealers will let you test ride. In fact it’s encouraged.
@@AlexUlleri Thanks man. I haven't been to one because I'm not into Harleys at all. I'm a eurofag. Also like Japanese bikes too. I'm done with the PA though. Might need to make a visit.
*down
The GS F900 Rally looks pretty sweet 2
I talked to a couple guys that have ridden it and they really didn't like it. I think it's a sharp looking bike, I hope to try it and make my own opinion.
Nice review, my man.
Much appreciated!
You’re not reviewer and you work for Harley. That’s all I needed to hear. Click!
Good honest real world review
Enjoy your riding...
Thanks! 👍
Couldn't agree more 👏
🙏
Really want to love the PA... No way Id of bought 1st few years. I own a couple HDs (built bagger and Dyna LRS) in addition to other makes. Now the bugs are worked out and would love to get one.
Where Im at with my touring, Ive been super spoiled with shaftdrive on my interstate tourer ADV. I just dont want to screw with chain drive touring interstate. Yes, I own a few chain drive bikes and live with maintenance with em.
Do you work for harley davidson motor company
Or harley davidson dealership
I work at a Harley dealership in Ontario Canada.
I was very interested in the 975 bike that was supposed to be released last fall. Stupidly HD canq'd it. Lost interest in ever owning a another HD. Last one i had was a 1984 1200 sportster. Got rid of it after i spent more getting it repaired in the year i owned it than i paid for it brand new.
I’m still holding hope but it’s not looking good.
what tires are you running for road and offroad.
The Anakee Wilds. So good for both road and dirt but they don't last long.
I will 100% buy a bike with airbox under the tank that I can daily ride in heavy rain than the typical open air filter on harley's. Hence why I traded in my street bob. I can go to work in sun, and have to ride home in downpours, and an air filter sock can't cut it
Yeah that's a good point. I went on a trip with my Street Bob and forgot the sock and nearly drowned my bike in heavy rain. It was sputtering down the road losing power. We survived, barely.
All of the big so called “adv” Bikes are too heavy. They’re all over tech’d. If you’re riding a full size bike in this class off road at 100% Full Tilt Boogie then more power to you and post videos so all of us can marvel at you! I like the PA as well as the Yamaha T12 as do it all Bikes. Ride what YOU like and a big middle finger to anyone who talks smack about rides they don’t own.
Agreed, I never understood people who smack others for their bike choices. As long as they enjoy two wheels it’s good enough for me. The reason I went big adv was the commute to the off-road. When I owned the KTM sure it was great off-road but getting there was tough as I live in a big city and it’s an hour ride on the highway to get anywhere remote. I know I give up off-road capability with the Pan-Am but I gain range.
curious to see what the Pan CVO will be.We will see on this wen
I find out today under an NDA but I suspect it's just paint and accessories.
i like the look of the cvo pan. @@AlexUlleri
@@greenrush4313yeah it’s pretty sweet
Is it worth almost 2 africa twins though?
For the features it has, to me, it is worth it. Would I prefer it be cheaper, of course. But for bikes it competes directly with it is priced well.
Does anyone know if a 5‘7“is a candidate for this motorbike?
If you want an adventure bike it's your best bet with the adaptive ride height. Maybe get the low seat as well. You will still be on your tippy toes but will be better than air on other big ADVs. My buddy is 5'7" ish and rides it. I would say go sit on one and see.
@@AlexUlleri thanks my friend
Nice review. More on bike footage would have been nice.
The after market is good to wait to see if HD will cancel this bike
Good honest video 👍
Thanks 👍
Wish HD would make an 8-900cc that's like 60lbs lighter.
Agreed.
You could ride a Super Cub down those tracks you filmed without baking a sweat.
I had one for six months, and it was never any one big thing, but all the little things (but I did have the inaugural year). Little things like kickstand being too far out, if you have the kickstand out, put the center stand down, but now you can't get the kickstand back into position (that's stupid). With both the stock and Sundowner seat it never fully sat fully locked into position, you can move it around. Try that on a BMW, Triumph, KTM, they are fully locked into position and don't rattle around. Mode switch location. I get this is a Harley, but get rid of those ugly and useless sound system buttons. Put the modes switch there! Having the mode switch on the very top of the the throttle side is a very poor decision, even with large hands (I wear XL gloves), I could barely get to the mode switch. Battery position. While I never had a problem with mine, putting the battery under the bash plate where you're going to get water and mud just seems like a recipe for trouble. I was never in love with the LCD interface and I did have mine before they bumped up the font size, so I'm sure that issue went away, but I had issues reading it. I also thought the HD navigation system was pretty useless, but I think the same about all the nav systems on the market. While I have have issues with the Garmin/BMW nav system on the GS, the integration is second to none. Triumph and HD have both gone down the route of integrating it with a phone app which is fine until it isn't (US and Canada still have lots of places where there is zero cell coverage) and trying to preload and plan routes outside the bike is problematic at best. I was happy to see somebody finally came out with a GPS mount above the LCD display in your video, but that's something HD should have thought of... While not perfect, Buell hooked up with Garmin and and like BMW had a dedicated GPS for the Ulysses, HD should do the same. Engine was awesome, but that didn't make up for the things I think an ADV bike should have.
I agree on the quickstand. It made me chuckle when I notice that. I don't agree with the mode button as I just use my index finger to tap it. I like the placement. I like the seat and I feel locked in but we all have different shapes. Correct, nav system doesn't work for an adv and a GPS is needed when out of cell service. Unless Harley has a GPS to sell they wont make a mount for it. Thanks for the comment, lot's of great points.
To say this bike is all good now is not completely true .three's still plenty in the forums of folks having issue . The biggest issue is Harley service centers not knowing how 🎉 are actually wanting to even work on the bikes let alone wanting to sell them if I'm honest 15:01
When I say they are good I am talking about the main issues affecting the early bikes. Bikes will brake down, that is true of all bikes. The rate of issues is the same as any other bike in the line up.
Love the videos, stop saying Ummm. Just pause for second
Ummm, I know, something I need to work on or edit out.
Most enjoyable bike to ride out of the 22 motorcycles I have owned. That said, it is the worst bike I have ever owned, so many issues, lives at the dealership. I have had more problems with my PAS then all my other bikes combined and it is not even close!
your saying the PAS is better then the KTM ADV lol if you want a 50/50 you go with the Husqvarna Norden 901 id never trust a Harley off road...... plus the price you have to be brand loyal for what you get.... 15k less save your self the headache buy a NORDEN!!!!!!
lol no, no I don’t trust a Harley Davidson salesman to give me the honest truth about Harley Davidson.
Sure, I get it.
working for a dealer is not working for the company. not imo anyways
Buy it for $23k sell it 2 years later for $11k😂
Or just buy your first one two years later for $11k and skip buying new. Saves a ton of money. But I am glad there are tons of people out the willing to take the hit for me :)
It is sad how unreliable these motorcycles are.
That’s not the case. They have fixed the early issues that some people experienced.
@@AlexUlleri Not according to many owners.
We have a 2022 and 2023. They both do not inspire confidence. My 2023 had loose improperly torqued fittings, my usb was loose, and both bikes have had black screens, my 2023 failed to charge. Everyone we know that has a Pan Am has had issues…including the 2023. So if you are telling the public this bike is reliable…you are lying to your audience.
I can only speak from my experience and what I see happening here. You are living a different experience, clearly and I am sorry. If you have a good dealer all the updates should be done and your other issues fixed.
@@AlexUlleri I just recently got a 22 pan america enthusiast edition and have had no mechanical or electrical problems with it whatsoever
I got my GI edition about 9 weeks ago. Best bike i ve ever owned. Most people are missing out on this one. Ive had the whole harley lineup over the years.Mostly cvos , dyna , fat boys and even custome choppers. The Pan is the best PERIOD!!!!!!!@@noahgagnon7972
Aah man your not seriously comparing this to a 1250GSA ?? 😳
The only comparison is price !!
And the Harley is MASSIVELY over priced !!
Especially when you take into account its resale values 😢😢
My pal lost $9,000 in 12 months on his !!
Thats no joke !!
The electric issues arr NOT solved !!
They are better at best !
The hard wear rusts on the 2021 models, has this been remedied ??
There is a danger of the kick stand going through the engine and your response was , " the bike has no frame , where else can they put it ? "
Hey iv got an idea pal , maybe we ought to put a damn frame on this monstrosity !!
So we have a sound place to put a kick stand as they might want to get off at some point 🤔??
You keep saying your not an engineer ??
Neither are we mate , maybe" YOUR" Engineers should make the bike "properly " BEFORE putting it on sale !!
I would tell everybody looking at this , if you have just bought one of these and it is giving you problems, take it back and demand a full refund !!
If they refuse , leave the bike there and put in writing that you have NO CONFIDENCE in this product any longer , you do not want it fixed as it was not fit for purpose from first sale , take no notice of any 14 day nonsense,
I have done this before , any court will allow you up to 6 months if your case is legitimate, EG going back and fourth with a NEW bike and remember the resale values on these are horrendous!!
I kid you not !
In writing give a time period of maybe a week for your refund, explaining that after this you will be going to small claims court , this initially will cost you but nowhere near what you lose in value, plus ANY COSTS are part of your claim and i assure you , you will win !!
And get every penny back including costs 😉
You say other bikes are too tall lol 😆
Get yourself some big soles on your shoes pal or buy a BMW 1250GSA with the small frame , you'll thank me when you come to sell it 😉
But then you work for Harley so you can ride them for free cant you ,
Others are losing thousands on this rubbish !!
Huge thanks for this feedback