A valuable lesson for even us private pilots... once you have or even suspect engine trouble the aircraft belongs to the insurance company; if you're flying corporate it's not yours to begin with. Screw the motor and get yourself down in one piece. Sort it out on the ground, not in the air and live to fly another day. Stay safe.
@scofab I liked that the Captain was very cautious about the engine issue and warning conflict, but he clearly was distracted during the event and having trouble concentrating perhaps. I wonder if he ever suffered a real engine failure on another flight at some point in the past that gave him grave concern...but how could you forget you idled the engine? F/O should have reminded him before the go around, but then again it seems like the Captain didn't give the F/O early enough warning of this...
scofab - That’s not the case. Pilot is paid to look after everything at all times. You must always do your best to ensure the safety of those on the ground and in the aircraft and then to look after the aircraft and the cargo and goods onboard. When you get it wrong it becomes the insurance company’s.
@@watershed44 Both pilots had only logged around 2,000 hours, they most likely never experienced engine failure in real life. The captain had failed engine out tests in his sim training. He was probably thinking more about crashing than flying, and thus failed to realize the idle engine would decrease climbing thrust power and then subsequently would cause thrust asymmetry on landing.
"In a twin engine plane, if you lose an engine, the second engine will get you to the scene of the crash." The pilot didn't know how to fly on one engine. Plus he didn't know what to do after the master caution, and he didn't follow the checklist which said to keep power on that engine. I think he was terrified of flying on one engine because he knew he was no good at it, which could explain his bad decisions.
Something that a lot of aircraft accident investigations fail to take into account is the added stress that noise brings into a situation..these flight sim videos are good at showing this..the incredibly loud noise of the aircraft adds a huge underlying layer of stress to any emergency situation where decisions have to be made, although it is hardly ever mentioned as a contributing factor...think about it..how many times have you had the radio in your car up loud and turned it down when you were unsure of where you needed to go or what to do??? Sounds funny, but noise is a HUGE unrealized stress factor...this is why a lot of emergency responders moved the siren from the top of the vehicles to the front of the vehicle in the bumper or grill..it moved the noise level farther away from the driver in order to take away some of the stress of the situation...planes are no different....pilots are human...they feel stress..add to that a potential emergency situation and lots of loud unrelenting noise and it is a recipe for making bad decisions...
Well said ! This is absolutely true. Even in a class room/outside environment, at home or any stressful situations, too much noise can be very distracting for any person from making the right decision. You just cant think straight when everything else around you is loud and distracting. I can honestly say this is by far the most important discovery in aviation history. It might not means much for the engineer or even flight experts and can be overlook over the years, but this little findings really broaden the perspective of the pilots during those critical moment, where sound could plays an important role in life and death situations.
@Guy DeCou - You’re absolutely right. The flight deck alarms do seem to be terribly aggressive. I’ve always thought this. The first thing I would want to do is shut off the alarm sound so that I can hear myself think how to fix the problem.
It was a huge improvement (just like you said) when a number of police vehicle's sirens were relocated to the front grill area. The first time I activated the siren I thought for a moment there was something wrong with it. Not having the loud siren blaring above your head did indeed decrease the stress level, especially during a pursuit. The analogy of the loud radio is also a good example regarding clearer thinking when noise levels are lower. Thanks for bringing this to the discussion.
Funny you should say that. In fact I felt the stress from the noise. If you start at about 10:30 to when they cut away to an external shot a about 11:20 you could feel what I mean. I couldn't believe how relieved I was when it went to an external view of the plane because the cockpit noise was gone.
A really good one. Thank you Allec The pilot didn't know how to fly on one engine. Private pilots sometimes have this problem on twin engine planes. "In a twin engine plane, if you lose an engine, the second engine will get you to the scene of the crash."
@@krisdunwoody7037 Wow that is a poignant and clever observation. We see the tragedy of you short to the point diagnosis of the problem. Some people may say that is harsh, but I wholly disagree. Political correctness is destroying economies, people have no trust in government. I do various training and I can tell you the tone of my electrically safe work practices program is not designed to offend anyone on purpose, but is like the parent standing on the side of a busy highway screaming at their disobedient child wandering around in the median! Can you see that picture? So Kris great comment, to the point and makes the lesson clear! Don't fly it if you are not skilled in an emergency that could and sooner or later will happen!
I remember finding your channel when you had a couple thousand subs thinking "The amount of time and work put into these videos, the research and then the recreation of them inside a flight sim are spectacular, how does he not have more sub?!" Now look at you with 200,000 subscribers, good for you. You deserve everyone of them too, Allec!
These videos are painful to watch, the loves lost, the seemingly simple problems that lead to catastrophe. You do a great service to the public with these videos, and the manner and style in which you portray the incidents is done in the most professional and respectful way. Keep it up Allec.
Quite astonishing that he appeared to have not concluded that setting one engine to idle would reduce climb performance! I wondered that during the simulation before it even reached the investigation conclusions. Also, how can he not realise that reducing the engine speed would also reduce oil pressure? He could have raised and lowered the engine speed a couple of times, and if the oil pressure changed in accordance with the change in engine speed then he would know that that the oil pressure gauge was giving an accurate reading. What this highlights is a recurring problem of pilots who rely on primal gut instincts at times when they shouldn't be. This is what brought down the Air France flight 447 for instance. There needs to be some testing to detect this pattern of behaviour because this can be dangerous in a wide range of circumstances.
Mike Hersee - Not many turboprop pilots realise where the zero thrust point is for their aircraft, the point where the thrust of an operative engine equals that of a shut down and feathered engine. It’s typically at around 12-15% torque. Not having this knowledge combined with two people incorrectly following the Emergency checklist were the main factors in this incident. The Air France incident was totally dissimilar. In that event the aircraft stall was not recognised and an inappropriate recovery technique was used.
@@Trevor_Austin thanks for that extra info. The relationship with the Air France accident was not the mechanical manner of the accident, but the fact that the pilot in error stopped following procedures and some primal perspectives seemed to take over. The pilot in the air France accident kept pulling back on the stick, as if he was afraid of diving
@Mike France 447 has to be the most befuddling piece of piloting I've witnessed, it wasn't even a moment of lapse, he genuinely kept pulling the stick up for minutes despite the reoccurring stall warnings.
@@timmi2198 I don't think it's befuddling. It's because there are different layers in the brain that in evolutionary terms were laid down in different periods over time. The oldest parts, such as the reptilian part of the brain, is the most primitive and also had the most control. The newest layer, the cerebral cortex, the conscious part of the brain, can handle the most complex issues well, but also has the least influence over what we actually do. That's why when people have phobias, no amount of rational explanation will overcome it unless therapeutic procedures are used that specifically reach down into the reptilian area of the brain. Similar thing with habits like smoking. So, in my view, what was going on here is that at some more primitive level within the brain, the pilot had a visceral FEELING that they were going to or were in danger of diving into the ocean, or a fear of diving into the ocean when he lost confidence in the instruments and couldn't see where they were. So that primitive part of the brain kept him pulling back on the stick because the cognitive part of his brain that should have been taking him to let go because of the stall warnings didn't have the authority to override the primitive part of his brain.
Like the AF 447 co-pilot this guy didn't seem to really know how his aircraft worked. On the subject of mechanically driven oil-pumps, hell even that is obvious to be as a non-pilot having fooled around with modifying cars in my youth. Something I note from working with many young mechanical engineering grads running instrumentation in a different industry; many have a nice degree but don't know one end of a spanner from another and have no feel for troubleshooting mechanical and electrical equipment. Perhaps like pilots, they may benefit from a more rounded education and development?
My cousin works for KLM and as an employee he took me with in several flights on the CityHopper in the exact same time period as this flight. As a young teenager it was even my first experience flying! Glad that I didn't know of this crash then, since maybe I didn't get my first flight experience on the CityHopper at all. Thanks for the video!
Could be to improve accessebility to controls. however with the shoulder harnas in unlock position youy still have this freedom exept in an crash.. same like a car seatbelt works
@@T0x1s1 I;'m pretty sure you're right (which basicly also was my statement). This goes even for airplanes with a larger cockpit which i was more familiar with.
I literally has no thing with airplane im a 13 year old boy i watched this since i was 10 or 11 love to see how you demostrate these fatal crashes good job allec!
Amazing how frequently, when a pilots records are investigated after a fatal crash, he turns out to have had trouble on multiple occasions in training.
After all, this was to happen...just a matter of time. So many others failed in single engine ops in the sim and they are still out there. Unbelievable, this is minimum requirement on multi engine.
Reminds me, sort of, of the ATLAS Air Cargo crash just outside Houston. The pilot flying panicked and suffered that phenomenon (can’t recall the name) where you think you’re going one way when you’re actually going another. The PIC was distracted and there wasn’t sufficient time or altitude to make necessary inputs and corrections. The recent NTSB report cited the FO’s astonishingly poor training record, and yet the pilot with glaring shortcomings was still allowed to proceed. Pilot training hopefully will address these issues in the future. RIP Captain and pax who died; hopefully the injured have healed. Great job, Allec! Another event I’d not heard of before. And I didn’t even know KLM had a little offshoot ferry service.
gomphrena -beautiful flower- the cityhoppers went to different places in Europe, mostly for well, as is in the name basically a citytrip or businesstrip.
Thank you for another fine vid, Allec. Keep up the good worlk. I always feel like I'm right up there with the crew. So sad they didn't just continue the flight like the manual said they could... prayers for the dead...
You are so cool, complaining about people using slang. English major here, with a stepmother who teaches elementary English. Kindly screw off. See, that's slang too.
@@KermitTheGamer21 Would your step mother allow slang in written communication? That is what this is. Telling me to "screw off" as you hide behind a fake name and a keyboard, a guy of real courage you are.
Kamusta Josh. You did a phenomenal job on this video, this is probably one of the most thorough videos you ever did and the computer graphics look like they have become even better, when the plane crashed. You did a phenomenal job in this video like you always do but this one you went the extra mile and it shows. Thank you.
Great video. I was the on duty controller at Cardiff that day waiting for an ETA on the AMS flight. It was a Sunday. The message board read delayed as news broke of an incident at AMS. I thought that it could be related to our flight but didn’t really believe it would be anything serious. Terrible tragedy, RIP to the victims. Encouraging to read KLM went on to improve training but it really should not have happened in 1994...
@@Anna-Rose- that’s right I remember now! He was a bit of a bully I think. Before the days of “CRM” when a FO was frightened to challenge the decision of a captain..!
I flew of S340’s of Midwest Express back in the day several times... we’d never get out of KMKE on time, as someone would ALWAYS get out to the plane and exclaim in surprise “what, there’s no bathroom?” And run back inside to pee, before a 45minute flight. Clockwork... every time!
A flight jus crashed at Karipur airport, which is near my home. Pilot feared dead. Aircraft is a Boeing 737. Flight operated by AirIndia Express. There were 177 passenger's. Karipur international airport is a table top airport. Let's take a moment and pray for them.🙏 Update 01: Total190 passengers were in the aircraft. 18 people including captain and first officer perished. There are unconfirmed reports that plane tried to make landing 2 times prior to the crash. And instead of taking the usual runway '28' plane landed from the opposite direction on runway '10'. Weather was bad and heavy rains was reported for last two days. Plane didn't catches fire may be because of this heavy rains. Also the timely intervention of local residents, who rushed to the accident spot saved many lives. Update 02: This airport was served a show cause notice on last July by DGCA (Director General of Civil Aviation) on concerns of excessive rubber deposits on runway, cracks and water deposit on parts of runway. Also pointed out more than permitted slope in many areas by DGCA. "Karipur is one of the most challenging runway I have experienced in my aviation Career. The runway guidance lighting system is very poor, Runway braking conditions is not monitored regularly. In a table top runway Night Condition + heavy rain & Wind is a nightmare for any pilot." - Anand Mohan Raj (Indigo Airline Pilot) Update 03: 2 hrs before the 'Air India Express' crash an 'Indigo' air craft (6E - 7129) landed on same airport in similar way. It missed runway 28 on first attempt and them came from the opposite direction to land on runway 10. Since it's a ATR 72 aircraft, easy for the pilots to bring it to complete stop even though the runway was short and slippery. Update 04: CCJ (Karipur International Airport) doesn't have a proper RESA (Runway End Safety Area), although 240m of RESA is suggested by DGCA a minimal of 90m RRESA is required. And should made of rocks found river sand or EMAS. CCJ used M-Sand to build RESA citing financial reasons. M-Sand became hard over time and was not serving the purpose. "Me and another staff were near the gate, looking at the ramp. The moment I saw Air India Express land I know that there's something wrong with this landing, it looks different. I haven't such a landing all these year's. Then a fire staff came rushing and told flight has gone down before getting his saftey equipments" - Sini Sanal (Witness/Air India staff) "No, the plane did not slide 35-feet down the hill. I saw it slightly take off from the cliff and then collapse on to the road, just 15 feet away from our post. All of it happened in less than 4 seconds.”- Ajith Singh (CISF assistant SI/Witness) At the time of landing the aircraft was at 326 km/h at an altitude of approximately 140 m above the surface of runway 10. The throttle was found to be in a fully forward position (go-around position) and the spoilers were retracted, all this indicates that the pilots might have tried for a go-around.
Another great video, thank you. Just a typo towards the end with regard to oil pressure; in that slide I think you use the word “below” instead of “above” 30psi with regard to the checklist allowing onward flight.
Noel Rabina - Jumbos require no more hours than regional aircraft. It just so happens that who flies what is decided by union agreements. More hours does NOT mean more competence, it should do but reality says otherwise.
This was due to pilot not understanding and implementing twin -engine out operation causing him to ignore asymmetrical thrust issues and how the airplane would respond. This situation crops up in radio controlled models also and we learn what our options are to avoid crashing the aircraft. Sadly, in a model, the actions occur so quickly we often lose control anyway.
@@whalesong999 RC models usualy have way more powerfull engines than the real thing. therefore performance is spectacular but asymetric power more dangerous. Solution on an engine failiure with RC: reduce power to resemble the original perfomance.. then again.. on a RC does the prop does feather ?
Actually this was caused by the PIC not controlling the aircraft on landing. If he had controlled the aircraft properly it would have just landed and it could have simply been a teachable moment. He called for flaps up right when he decided to go around but the question is did he have enough airspeed to maintain flaps up flight in that airframe at that time? He should have verified a positive rate of climb and sufficient airspeed before calling flaps up. I also seem to recall it not being a stellar idea to make your turn into the failed engine side on a multi engine aircraft. Either way this was a completely preventable accident regardless of the right engine oil pressure indication.
The hard part was deciding whether or not to continue the flight; and the Captain chose cautiously. The easy part (for a pilot with experience) was to land in clear conditions and then execute a one-engine go-around, and this he could not do. Strange and tragic.
This is sad I came here to veiw the full story of what happened and man you told it so amazingly. I was on another channel talking about flight crashes from the tv series but it never explained the full story.
I know people are going to blame the captain for returning instead of continuing on, which is fair, but in this instance I feel like some blame lies with the way the Emergency Operation manual was written. An added line explaining that the Master Warn/Caution alarm sounding with this kind of fault was a false warning (which was implied by the way the manual was worded, and was probably written that way by someone that knew the system could fault this way) would have gone a long way in helping the captain to make the correct decision to continue on.
First things first, I was initially shocked that anyone survived that calamity. Second of all, the captain's absolute negligence in the performance of his duties troubles the beans out of me.
Well in all fairness to the captain his lack of training (Airline issue?) and lack of certification by a really qualified Type Accepted Observing pilot, a lot of simulator time and a lot of hours flying FO banned from PIC until fully qualified in Twin Turbos he should not have been in the left seat to start with. Dan Gryder has been preaching this for years on his "itty bitty you tube channel" Single engine out, twin one engine out? How do you get trained? Moderate altitude training pilot shoves the throttle back to idle and see what the pilot does! If he noses down and does the right stuff you getting there! If not nose up stall and the ground awaits. Most good training pilots loosely hold the stick while doing these maneuvers to assure they DON'T end up on the ground.
Allec, I think you meant to say "...if the oil pressure light is on BUT the oil pressure gauge is ABOVE 30 psi, it would be safe to continue the flight." This is an important point, and you might want to change it. Otherwise, nice job.
@@AllecJoshuaIbay So RUclips is retroactively including mid roll ads to any video more than 8 minutes long. Even if you don't want them there as the author. Crazy...
CRM was excellent on this flight. It is incredibly sad a good man and obviously a good pilot and another innocent person had to die. Instruments are the pilots eyes and ears for what is happening inside the nacelle to keep up with engine performance. The fact a master alarm sounded 3 times is worthy of consideration. A problem with any aircraft, but especially turboprops of this make and similar is the plane is smaller and as such with a violent increase in torque on just one engine tends to want to make the aircraft roll violently. In relation to the torque being high on only one engine going from a much lower speed in a hard accell with abrupt application of full power on one engine a roll will likely occur. Maybe the captain God rest his soul needed more training and simulator time practicing one engine out/at idle confronted with a go around on lighter smaller turbos like this one. Maybe maintenance was negligent (based on significant experience with risk assessment and accident evaluations I am sure maintenance was a significant contributor as a trigger cause of the event) Everybody has to do their job 100%. 89% cause I am having a bad day WILL NOT DO! The captain and the civilian that died had a really bad day! Aircraft are so incredibly good and safe we have to be careful not to become lax in maintenance, pilot training, inspections, A_D checks at an aircraft maintenance facility. No slack-----😔 people die when we let the slick end slide!!!!
Dude, your videos are always awesome, but ya know what I like best? The very start of your vids......WHOOSH, RRRRPHP, BONK and then your logo shows up. LOL That is so cool! Never change that ok? 😉👍🏼
Of the two conditions #1 Oil pressure light on #2 Oil pressure less than 30 psi, am I to understand it is safe to continue flight if only #1 or #2 is true, then it is safe to continue flight and if BOTH #1 and #2 is true then it is not safe to continue flight? So the First Officer misread the checklist? The captain noticed the climb performance was degraded after he idled the right engine...duh?
At 13:24, you write that "According to the emergency checklist, if the oil pressure gauge is below 30psi, it would be safe to continue the flight". Is it possible to correct that to say "...if the oil pressure gauge is above 30psi"? Otherwise you will have made an oil pressure malfunction mistake just like our (clearly too nervous to function properly) Captain. Yours didn't cost anyone's life though...
Yes an error was made in the text. If the low pressure alarm is active and its is verified the pressure is good via gauge reading then you can proceed. Lastly aircraft performance at a predetermine power setting gives final confirmation that all is well.
Asymetric power from the engines can be compensated by opposite rudder and aileron inputs, which obviously were not applied in this situation. Probably why the captain flunked his last two sims on this scenario.
The critical error of the captain: Prior to landing he did not brief the possibility of a go-around, which had to contain an early decision to set both engines on full power in case they have to avoid landing and perform a go-around. Earlier he avoided shutting down the engine, probably with a view to use it if will be necessary. That was the right thinking, but the poor captain forgot about it when was coming close to the failed landing.
The message we lost an aircraft ... The message we lost a colleague ... The message we lost 2 pax The view of flags at half mast at the airport The sad mood at the airport The sight of the wreckage in the field I'll never forget . . .
Bless you my friend too many people, especially us guys have a hard time expressing what you have been so valiant to express. We are humans and basic kindness and respect/compassion for our fellow man is all but lost. I commend you for showing that much needed compassion and remorse for this terrible situation.
Allec, I think you might have made a mistake with your captions. You have two with "oil pressure light on and pressure below 30 PSI" but one says the flight can continue and the other says the engine is to be shut down. As an aside, as soon as I saw the crew left the engine in flight idle I could foresee the problem that was rearing its head. In a turboprop an engine in flight idle is like having a huge airbrake out on the wing with all the commensurate problems.
@@thedocnak not exactly, i trust neither was rightly done in this case. thankfully, the flight nowadays are getting better and safer since they keep updating their manual guide & technical feature after each bad incident.
@@bimogushatriastanto Sensors are double redundant, means you have two sensors per gauge. It's twice as likely that you have a good sensor working your gauge.Unless you are a 737 MAX....
I read an article yesterday that said in 60's it was widely believed by everyone and even insurance companies believed that twin engine plans were much safer than single engine planes. Some gentlemen spent years trying to change that because data proved it not true. The reason being was that pilots were not trained to fly a twin engine plane after one engine had failed. He was met with much resistance at the time but eventually data and facts prevailed.
As usual an excellent reproduction of the events and well explained . Great graphics . I feel that the pilots had too few flying hours to be at the grades they held especially in the case of the capt.
Richard agreed. He really did not handle the go around well. Deck kinda got stacked against him in the end but he was clearly not ready at low altitude for the torque spin the one engine imposed going to full throttle/power. The outcome bears it out. Too bad circumstances exacted the death penalty for he and a civilian.
@David Vance David, usualy there are two oil press sensors, one linear for the indicator, and one that just detects above or below a certain level....these are for the centralized warning system (which name depends on the aircraft manufactorer). It ocasionaly happens that such a sensor fails and causes false warning. For that reaseon always monitor your indicators before taking action.
@David Vance onderstand, but in general pilots are not paid to panic. Hmmm well to be honest i only felt comfy when things start to fail, came with the job ;)
I don't fault the decision to return, but with 50 lbs. oil pressure, reducing the power on #2 and not bringing it back up was overkill. Fly normally and closely monitor the GAUGE. If it dropped too low, you can cut it back. A twin on one engine requires training and practice to survive. The operating manual really did have it right.
@@Trevor_Austin he created the problem that he then misdiagnosed. He then turned that misdiagnosis into basis for action without critically analyzing the situation. In short, he leapt to a conclusion then accepted the consequences of that leap as proof of his misdiagnosis. That pretty much a definition of confirmation bias.
Unfortunate, but those warning sounds would bug anybody. If you drive your car, and you’re on the freeway going between 75-80 and a engine light comes on, or low oil pressure, or similar and the car reacts you have to react accordingly. You move over as fast as you can and check your gauges just the same. But in mid air it’s even more stressful.
As an Armchair Pilot i would have pulled the left engine back as well - to protect it from seizing up. But the Saab's engines are massively powerful - 3.500 HP. "per side". At some point, the Captain decided the one engine was gone. Deleted. not available. Void. And then he pushed the right hand engine to the max - at low speed. I broke many Havocs and Mitchells this way. May they rest in peace, and may we all learn from this.
As 35+ year mechanic. There some people no matter how hard you try to help them, They are just not mechanical inclined but this still a very important on operational engines planes so far don't fly far without them. Appears this might been a factor. Electronic components I don't trust near as much as your more mechanical components lot people don't know difference of what ones are more mechanical. I wonder if pilot had butt chew out over causing more damage to engine before over company cost. If this so? Appears training has proved this was the poor guy's weak area. Company should help them out little more in there time of need. It's bottom line all over operating cost to companies. I feel weak spots in pilots skills should pop up on computer screens when ever they happen to have any problem in air so to give them priority help in there weak areas of there skills. I have done this before on my own appears to have help. You don't want overload them with too much advise but still give them some expert advice in there weak areas. Sadly this is a business and bottom line is operations cost.
When low and slow never turn into the bad engine, or in this case the idled engine. Very high probability of a stall. Sad tale, the Captain aborted the flight out of safety concerns, chain of small mistakes led up to a tragedy. RIP victims of this crash.
A single engine go around in the Saab shouldn’t be much to worry about, nor is flight on a single engine. Alas, yet another example of a totally avoidable crash.
I was on the edge of my seat for this one, I had no idea what was coming, but I figured it wasn't good. Incredible that anyone survived.
Dam near EVERYONE. It's simply astonishing.
A valuable lesson for even us private pilots... once you have or even suspect engine trouble the aircraft belongs to the insurance company; if you're flying corporate it's not yours to begin with.
Screw the motor and get yourself down in one piece. Sort it out on the ground, not in the air and live to fly another day.
Stay safe.
@scofab
I liked that the Captain was very cautious about the engine issue and warning conflict, but he clearly was distracted during the event and having trouble concentrating perhaps. I wonder if he ever suffered a real engine failure on another flight at some point
in the past that gave him grave concern...but how could you forget you idled the engine? F/O should have reminded him before the go around, but then again it seems like the Captain didn't give the F/O early enough warning of this...
Rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
scofab - That’s not the case. Pilot is paid to look after everything at all times. You must always do your best to ensure the safety of those on the ground and in the aircraft and then to look after the aircraft and the cargo and goods onboard. When you get it wrong it becomes the insurance company’s.
@@watershed44 Both pilots had only logged around 2,000 hours, they most likely never experienced engine failure in real life. The captain had failed engine out tests in his sim training. He was probably thinking more about crashing than flying, and thus failed to realize the idle engine would decrease climbing thrust power and then subsequently would cause thrust asymmetry on landing.
"In a twin engine plane, if you lose an engine, the second engine will get you to the scene of the crash."
The pilot didn't know how to fly on one engine. Plus he didn't know what to do after the master caution, and he didn't follow the checklist which said to keep power on that engine. I think he was terrified of flying on one engine because he knew he was no good at it, which could explain his bad decisions.
Something that a lot of aircraft accident investigations fail to take into account is the added stress that noise brings into a situation..these flight sim videos are good at showing this..the incredibly loud noise of the aircraft adds a huge underlying layer of stress to any emergency situation where decisions have to be made, although it is hardly ever mentioned as a contributing factor...think about it..how many times have you had the radio in your car up loud and turned it down when you were unsure of where you needed to go or what to do??? Sounds funny, but noise is a HUGE unrealized stress factor...this is why a lot of emergency responders moved the siren from the top of the vehicles to the front of the vehicle in the bumper or grill..it moved the noise level farther away from the driver in order to take away some of the stress of the situation...planes are no different....pilots are human...they feel stress..add to that a potential emergency situation and lots of loud unrelenting noise and it is a recipe for making bad decisions...
That's a point I never even considered. Bravo!
Well said ! This is absolutely true. Even in a class room/outside environment, at home or any stressful situations, too much noise can be very distracting for any person from making the right decision. You just cant think straight when everything else around you is loud and distracting.
I can honestly say this is by far the most important discovery in aviation history. It might not means much for the engineer or even flight experts and can be overlook over the years, but this little findings really broaden the perspective of the pilots during those critical moment, where sound could plays an important role in life and death situations.
@Guy DeCou - You’re absolutely right. The flight deck alarms do seem to be terribly aggressive. I’ve always thought this. The first thing I would want to do is shut off the alarm sound so that I can hear myself think how to fix the problem.
It was a huge improvement (just like you said) when a number of police vehicle's sirens were relocated to the front grill area. The first time I activated the siren I thought for a moment there was something wrong with it. Not having the loud siren blaring above your head did indeed decrease the stress level, especially during a pursuit. The analogy of the loud radio is also a good example regarding clearer thinking when noise levels are lower. Thanks for bringing this to the discussion.
Funny you should say that. In fact I felt the stress from the noise. If you start at about 10:30 to when they cut away to an external shot a about 11:20 you could feel what I mean. I couldn't believe how relieved I was when it went to an external view of the plane because the cockpit noise was gone.
A really good one. Thank you Allec
The pilot didn't know how to fly on one engine. Private pilots sometimes have this problem on twin engine planes.
"In a twin engine plane, if you lose an engine, the second engine will get you to the scene of the crash."
I see you are a Ron White fan.
@@steveconkey7362 Traveling at the speed of smell can have dire consequences.
A very good point. Yes if there is going to be a crash, you can count on the Second engine to get you there (to the crash site).
@@krisdunwoody7037 Wow that is a poignant and clever observation. We see the tragedy of you short to the point diagnosis of the problem. Some people may say that is harsh, but I wholly disagree. Political correctness is destroying economies, people have no trust in government. I do various training and I can tell you the tone of my electrically safe work practices program is not designed to offend anyone on purpose, but is like the parent standing on the side of a busy highway screaming at their disobedient child wandering around in the median!
Can you see that picture?
So Kris great comment, to the point and makes the lesson clear! Don't fly it if you are not skilled in an emergency that could and sooner or later will happen!
I remember finding your channel when you had a couple thousand subs thinking "The amount of time and work put into these videos, the research and then the recreation of them inside a flight sim are spectacular, how does he not have more sub?!" Now look at you with 200,000 subscribers, good for you. You deserve everyone of them too, Allec!
These videos are painful to watch, the loves lost, the seemingly simple problems that lead to catastrophe. You do a great service to the public with these videos, and the manner and style in which you portray the incidents is done in the most professional and respectful way. Keep it up Allec.
Quite astonishing that he appeared to have not concluded that setting one engine to idle would reduce climb performance! I wondered that during the simulation before it even reached the investigation conclusions. Also, how can he not realise that reducing the engine speed would also reduce oil pressure? He could have raised and lowered the engine speed a couple of times, and if the oil pressure changed in accordance with the change in engine speed then he would know that that the oil pressure gauge was giving an accurate reading.
What this highlights is a recurring problem of pilots who rely on primal gut instincts at times when they shouldn't be. This is what brought down the Air France flight 447 for instance. There needs to be some testing to detect this pattern of behaviour because this can be dangerous in a wide range of circumstances.
Mike Hersee - Not many turboprop pilots realise where the zero thrust point is for their aircraft, the point where the thrust of an operative engine equals that of a shut down and feathered engine. It’s typically at around 12-15% torque. Not having this knowledge combined with two people incorrectly following the Emergency checklist were the main factors in this incident. The Air France incident was totally dissimilar. In that event the aircraft stall was not recognised and an inappropriate recovery technique was used.
@@Trevor_Austin thanks for that extra info. The relationship with the Air France accident was not the mechanical manner of the accident, but the fact that the pilot in error stopped following procedures and some primal perspectives seemed to take over. The pilot in the air France accident kept pulling back on the stick, as if he was afraid of diving
@Mike France 447 has to be the most befuddling piece of piloting I've witnessed, it wasn't even a moment of lapse, he genuinely kept pulling the stick up for minutes despite the reoccurring stall warnings.
@@timmi2198 I don't think it's befuddling. It's because there are different layers in the brain that in evolutionary terms were laid down in different periods over time. The oldest parts, such as the reptilian part of the brain, is the most primitive and also had the most control. The newest layer, the cerebral cortex, the conscious part of the brain, can handle the most complex issues well, but also has the least influence over what we actually do. That's why when people have phobias, no amount of rational explanation will overcome it unless therapeutic procedures are used that specifically reach down into the reptilian area of the brain. Similar thing with habits like smoking.
So, in my view, what was going on here is that at some more primitive level within the brain, the pilot had a visceral FEELING that they were going to or were in danger of diving into the ocean, or a fear of diving into the ocean when he lost confidence in the instruments and couldn't see where they were. So that primitive part of the brain kept him pulling back on the stick because the cognitive part of his brain that should have been taking him to let go because of the stall warnings didn't have the authority to override the primitive part of his brain.
Like the AF 447 co-pilot this guy didn't seem to really know how his aircraft worked.
On the subject of mechanically driven oil-pumps, hell even that is obvious to be as a non-pilot having fooled around with modifying cars in my youth.
Something I note from working with many young mechanical engineering grads running instrumentation in a different industry; many have a nice degree but don't know one end of a spanner from another and have no feel for troubleshooting mechanical and electrical equipment. Perhaps like pilots, they may benefit from a more rounded education and development?
Good news: We have corrected for a problem.
Bad news: The problem wasn’t real, so by correcting we now have a real problem.
ruclips.net/video/J-WFeIvMJAA/видео.html
We have corrected for a - NOT A REAL - problem
Awesome! Best comment ever!!!
I was not expecting this end, thanks Allec, I really like your videos
These are amazing video's, Allec. So authentic looking it's as if we're watching things happen in real time! Thanks for all you do!
Another excellent video Allec. I’ve always wondered about the circumstances around this flight and this answerd my questions. Good job and thank you
My cousin works for KLM and as an employee he took me with in several flights on the CityHopper in the exact same time period as this flight. As a young teenager it was even my first experience flying! Glad that I didn't know of this crash then, since maybe I didn't get my first flight experience on the CityHopper at all. Thanks for the video!
Wikipedia states: "the Captain's death attributable to not wearing his shoulder restraints."
It's always heart failure.
@@wallycleaver8267 to early to die from covid 19
Could be to improve accessebility to controls. however with the shoulder harnas in unlock position youy still have this freedom exept in an crash.. same like a car seatbelt works
Pascal Coole There is no reason to not use them. They wont affect your ability to reach anything at all. Source: I’m a SF34 pilot
@@T0x1s1 I;'m pretty sure you're right (which basicly also was my statement). This goes even for airplanes with a larger cockpit which i was more familiar with.
I literally has no thing with airplane im a 13 year old boy i watched this since i was 10 or 11 love to see how you demostrate these fatal crashes good job allec!
Amazing how frequently, when a pilots records are investigated after a fatal crash, he turns out to have had trouble on multiple occasions in training.
The passengers deserve better.
How many others who slipped through the training are still out there.
After all, this was to happen...just a matter of time. So many others failed in single engine ops in the sim and they are still out there. Unbelievable, this is minimum requirement on multi engine.
Reminds me, sort of, of the ATLAS Air Cargo crash just outside Houston. The pilot flying panicked and suffered that phenomenon (can’t recall the name) where you think you’re going one way when you’re actually going another. The PIC was distracted and there wasn’t sufficient time or altitude to make necessary inputs and corrections.
The recent NTSB report cited the FO’s astonishingly poor training record, and yet the pilot with glaring shortcomings was still allowed to proceed.
Pilot training hopefully will address these issues in the future.
RIP Captain and pax who died; hopefully the injured have healed.
Great job, Allec! Another event I’d not heard of before. And I didn’t even know KLM had a little offshoot ferry service.
gomphrena -beautiful flower- the cityhoppers went to different places in Europe, mostly for well, as is in the name basically a citytrip or businesstrip.
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043
Somatographic Illusion, I think...
Thank you for another fine vid, Allec. Keep up the good worlk.
I always feel like I'm right up there with the crew. So sad they didn't just continue the flight like the manual said they could... prayers for the dead...
You are so cool using the word vid instead of typing out video.
You are so cool, complaining about people using slang. English major here, with a stepmother who teaches elementary English. Kindly screw off. See, that's slang too.
@@KermitTheGamer21 Would your step mother allow slang in written communication? That is what this is.
Telling me to "screw off" as you hide behind a fake name and a keyboard, a guy of real courage you are.
Really enjoyed hearing this story even if there was a sad ending. Thank you Allec for all your hard work on these videos. So appreciated.
You need to do at least one of these with MFS 2020. I know you don't want to change sims but the graphics are unbelieveable.
Would have to wait until 3rd party aircraft are available on it
@@tomstravels520 PMDG should have the fixed quickly.
Duran Duranie what about airbus? The default A320 needs several fixes first and need a non NEO variant
MFS 2020 is included with Microsoft Game Pass (Game pass now available on PC), I signed up for one month for $1!
@@thedocnak can you elaborate? Is that a promo going on now?
another great video dude, i really enjoy the effort you put in to these lesser known flights, please keep it up.
I was wondering when Captain was gonna even out the thrust on short final. A ten second burst of power could have saved the entire flight.
Needless loss of life and a pretty plane. Nice work Allec.
Greetings from South Africa.
Kamusta Josh. You did a phenomenal job on this video, this is probably one of the most thorough videos you ever did and the computer graphics look like they have become even better, when the plane crashed. You did a phenomenal job in this video like you always do but this one you went the extra mile and it shows. Thank you.
I'm glad most of the souls on board survived. For the other, when your time is up, that's it. I like the Allec Joshua Ibay videos.
It's crazy isn't it?. The complete lottery of who survived and who died.
And what a coincidence that all those people on that flight that died had their time expire on the same flight.
@@macman975 OP is not saying the same thing you are.
@@bobbywoods684 So
@@macman975 Nothing to you really. Not picking a fight.
Great video. I was the on duty controller at Cardiff that day waiting for an ETA on the AMS flight. It was a Sunday. The message board read delayed as news broke of an incident at AMS. I thought that it could be related to our flight but didn’t really believe it would be anything serious. Terrible tragedy, RIP to the victims. Encouraging to read KLM went on to improve training but it really should not have happened in 1994...
No, it should not have happened in 1994, especially since it was one of their pilots who caused the deadliest aviation crash in history in 1977.
@@Anna-Rose- that’s right I remember now! He was a bit of a bully I think. Before the days of “CRM” when a FO was frightened to challenge the decision of a captain..!
These videos are gonna be on another level once FS2020 drops.
I flew of S340’s of Midwest Express back in the day several times... we’d never get out of KMKE on time, as someone would ALWAYS get out to the plane and exclaim in surprise “what, there’s no bathroom?” And run back inside to pee, before a 45minute flight. Clockwork... every time!
A flight jus crashed at Karipur airport, which is near my home. Pilot feared dead. Aircraft is a Boeing 737. Flight operated by AirIndia Express. There were 177 passenger's.
Karipur international airport is a table top airport.
Let's take a moment and pray for them.🙏
Update 01:
Total190 passengers were in the aircraft. 18 people including captain and first officer perished.
There are unconfirmed reports that plane tried to make landing 2 times prior to the crash.
And instead of taking the usual runway '28' plane landed from the opposite direction on runway '10'.
Weather was bad and heavy rains was reported for last two days. Plane didn't catches fire may be because of this heavy rains.
Also the timely intervention of local residents, who rushed to the accident spot saved many lives.
Update 02:
This airport was served a show cause notice on last July by DGCA (Director General of Civil Aviation) on concerns of excessive rubber deposits on runway, cracks and water deposit on parts of runway. Also pointed out more than permitted slope in many areas by DGCA.
"Karipur is one of the most challenging runway I have experienced in my aviation Career. The runway guidance lighting system is very poor, Runway braking conditions is not monitored regularly.
In a table top runway Night Condition + heavy rain & Wind is a nightmare for any pilot." - Anand Mohan Raj (Indigo Airline Pilot)
Update 03:
2 hrs before the 'Air India Express' crash an 'Indigo' air craft (6E - 7129) landed on same airport in similar way. It missed runway 28 on first attempt and them came from the opposite direction to land on runway 10. Since it's a ATR 72 aircraft, easy for the pilots to bring it to complete stop even though the runway was short and slippery.
Update 04:
CCJ (Karipur International Airport) doesn't have a proper RESA (Runway End Safety Area), although 240m of RESA is suggested by DGCA a minimal of 90m RRESA is required. And should made of rocks found river sand or EMAS. CCJ used M-Sand to build RESA citing financial reasons. M-Sand became hard over time and was not serving the purpose.
"Me and another staff were near the gate, looking at the ramp. The moment I saw Air India Express land I know that there's something wrong with this landing, it looks different. I haven't such a landing all these year's. Then a fire staff came rushing and told flight has gone down before getting his saftey equipments" - Sini Sanal (Witness/Air India staff)
"No, the plane did not slide 35-feet down the hill. I saw it slightly take off from the cliff and then collapse on to the road, just 15 feet away from our post. All of it happened in less than 4 seconds.”- Ajith Singh (CISF assistant SI/Witness)
At the time of landing the aircraft was at 326 km/h at an altitude of approximately 140 m above the surface of runway 10. The throttle was found to be in a fully forward position (go-around position) and the spoilers were retracted, all this indicates that the pilots might have tried for a go-around.
15 killed so far. Let's hope that doesn't go higher.
@@muffs55mercury61 17
@@tony.bickert Thanks for the update.
He died doing what he loved, screwing up in the air.
Another great video, thank you. Just a typo towards the end with regard to oil pressure; in that slide I think you use the word “below” instead of “above” 30psi with regard to the checklist allowing onward flight.
I wish all KLM liveries looked like this, they look pretty good.
Yeah, that is a nice livery. Just replace the Cityhopper on the tail with the KLM logo and we're all set.
Looks good getting hauled upside down from a ditch in a million pieces?
Its pretty similar (?) to the Lufthansa livery, the new one.
@@davidkendrick4453 Bet you're fun at parties.
@tinwoods His comment was just stating how he liked the livery and that doesn't mean you can say false statements so please, shut up.
Always good work.Thanks
13:12
747 KLM: oh man im so sorry for what happened
Saab Cityhopper: bye take care
they make big mistakes
13:12 747 KLM oh man I’m so sorry for what happened saab cityhopper bye take care
They make big mistakes
These are spine chilling n sooo well made.
Thks for sharing this. 👍👍
How did guy even become a captain?? A failure! And his complete lack of airmanship cost lives! Great video well done friend.
2500 hours flight time at 750/yr avg that's 3 1/2 years
Same with the co-pilot.
Poor testing and poor training
Why does an airline allow two inexperienced pilots to fly a passenger aircraft? 4,323 flying hours between the pair is not much.
Because it’s a regional plane. The Jumbos require many more thousands of hours.
Noel Rabina - Jumbos require no more hours than regional aircraft. It just so happens that who flies what is decided by union agreements. More hours does NOT mean more competence, it should do but reality says otherwise.
Eddie Glass - 4,000 hours is more than enough with the right people. I regularly used to fly with 200 First Officers. Most could outfly me any day.
Because you don't want to pay the price of a real ticket
Money, my friend. Money.
Saab 340 is a great aircraft
Yes I get they're less trouble prone vs similar ATR models.
Saab = the Volvo of the Skies ?
@A Car
I know. I was just being goofy.
Then again, that could just be a Saab story !
Damn, and to think this was caused by a false alarm
yup, when you think you're doing everything right and die for it and it all ends up being wrong.. sad to see.
This was due to pilot not understanding and implementing twin -engine out operation causing him to ignore asymmetrical thrust issues and how the airplane would respond. This situation crops up in radio controlled models also and we learn what our options are to avoid crashing the aircraft. Sadly, in a model, the actions occur so quickly we often lose control anyway.
@@whalesong999 RC models usualy have way more powerfull engines than the real thing.
therefore performance is spectacular but asymetric power more dangerous. Solution on an engine failiure with RC: reduce power to resemble the original perfomance.. then again.. on a RC does the prop does feather ?
@@pascalcoole2725 For sure. The principles remain the same though.
Actually this was caused by the PIC not controlling the aircraft on landing. If he had controlled the aircraft properly it would have just landed and it could have simply been a teachable moment. He called for flaps up right when he decided to go around but the question is did he have enough airspeed to maintain flaps up flight in that airframe at that time? He should have verified a positive rate of climb and sufficient airspeed before calling flaps up. I also seem to recall it not being a stellar idea to make your turn into the failed engine side on a multi engine aircraft.
Either way this was a completely preventable accident regardless of the right engine oil pressure indication.
Isnt it strange how a series of malfunctions has to happen in sequence to complete a disaster?
Such a sad and unnecessary tragedy !!! Valuable lessons for us all !!
Very good Allec
Wonderfully created video, excellent workmanship.
I’ve watched all your videos. Love love love them! Never stop. 🥰
Follow established procedures guys, don't make up your own...especially during an "issue".
The hard part was deciding whether or not to continue the flight; and the Captain chose cautiously. The easy part (for a pilot with experience) was to land in clear conditions and then execute a one-engine go-around, and this he could not do. Strange and tragic.
Sounds like they were the victims of a vicious circle of logic.
Great video as always Allec!!
Excellent job Mr allec joshua ibay
I'm your subscriber
you and 230,000+
Imagine how good-looking these videos will be when the new Microsoft Flight Sim releases :D
This is sad I came here to veiw the full story of what happened and man you told it so amazingly. I was on another channel talking about flight crashes from the tv series but it never explained the full story.
Great work Allec👍👍
I know people are going to blame the captain for returning instead of continuing on, which is fair, but in this instance I feel like some blame lies with the way the Emergency Operation manual was written. An added line explaining that the Master Warn/Caution alarm sounding with this kind of fault was a false warning (which was implied by the way the manual was worded, and was probably written that way by someone that knew the system could fault this way) would have gone a long way in helping the captain to make the correct decision to continue on.
First things first, I was initially shocked that anyone survived that calamity. Second of all, the captain's absolute negligence in the performance of his duties troubles the beans out of me.
Well in all fairness to the captain his lack of training (Airline issue?) and lack of certification by a really qualified Type Accepted Observing pilot, a lot of simulator time and a lot of hours flying FO banned from PIC until fully qualified in Twin Turbos he should not have been in the left seat to start with. Dan Gryder has been preaching this for years on his "itty bitty you tube channel" Single engine out, twin one engine out? How do you get trained? Moderate altitude training pilot shoves the throttle back to idle and see what the pilot does! If he noses down and does the right stuff you getting there! If not nose up stall and the ground awaits. Most good training pilots loosely hold the stick while doing these maneuvers to assure they DON'T end up on the ground.
Thanks Alex. Another good reason to not go to sleep!
Well done presentation!
Allec, I think you meant to say "...if the oil pressure light is on BUT the oil pressure gauge is ABOVE 30 psi, it would be safe to continue the flight." This is an important point, and you might want to change it. Otherwise, nice job.
These are addictive to watch!
Brilliant work with this video, as usual!
EXCELLENT VIDEO ALLEC!!! EXCELLENT!
I didnt know RUclips could pack so many commercials into a 17 minute video...
I'm curious. How many actually?
@@AllecJoshuaIbay there were 4 commercial breaks.
@@AllecJoshuaIbay still really enjoyed the video, tho
@@AllecJoshuaIbay So RUclips is retroactively including mid roll ads to any video more than 8 minutes long. Even if you don't want them there as the author. Crazy...
install Adblocker does away with ads altogether.
Thank you, Mr. Ibay.
CRM was excellent on this flight. It is incredibly sad a good man and obviously a good pilot and another innocent person had to die. Instruments are the pilots eyes and ears for what is happening inside the nacelle to keep up with engine performance. The fact a master alarm sounded 3 times is worthy of consideration. A problem with any aircraft, but especially turboprops of this make and similar is the plane is smaller and as such with a violent increase in torque on just one engine tends to want to make the aircraft roll violently.
In relation to the torque being high on only one engine going from a much lower speed in a hard accell with abrupt application of full power on one engine a roll will likely occur.
Maybe the captain God rest his soul needed more training and simulator time practicing one engine out/at idle confronted with a go around on lighter smaller turbos like this one.
Maybe maintenance was negligent (based on significant experience with risk assessment and accident evaluations I am sure maintenance was a significant contributor as a trigger cause of the event) Everybody has to do their job 100%. 89% cause I am having a bad day WILL NOT DO! The captain and the civilian that died had a really bad day! Aircraft are so incredibly good and safe we have to be careful not to become lax in maintenance, pilot training, inspections, A_D checks at an aircraft maintenance facility. No slack-----😔 people die when we let the slick end slide!!!!
Amazing you did this one! I have another idea: NLM Cityhoper Flight 431
True in cars too. Half the time a warning light means that the sensor or light is bad; not the system.
Dude, your videos are always awesome, but ya know what I like best? The very start of your vids......WHOOSH, RRRRPHP, BONK and then your logo shows up. LOL That is so cool! Never change that ok? 😉👍🏼
Good videos allec
Pilots: "You can *always* go around."
KLM 433: "😒."
ruclips.net/video/J-WFeIvMJAA/видео.html
Not with 50% of your engines in idle........
You can always go around, even single engine, but you do have to configure for a single engine approach.
I always get excited for your vids
You are so cool using the word vid instead of typing out video.
Of the two conditions #1 Oil pressure light on #2 Oil pressure less than 30 psi, am I to understand it is safe to continue flight if only #1 or #2 is true, then it is safe to continue flight and if BOTH #1 and #2 is true then it is not safe to continue flight? So the First Officer misread the checklist? The captain noticed the climb performance was degraded after he idled the right engine...duh?
Thanks!
At 13:24, you write that "According to the emergency checklist, if the oil pressure gauge is below 30psi, it would be safe to continue the flight". Is it possible to correct that to say "...if the oil pressure gauge is above 30psi"? Otherwise you will have made an oil pressure malfunction mistake just like our (clearly too nervous to function properly) Captain. Yours didn't cost anyone's life though...
No. What he said was correct. If EITHER shows it’s safe. If BOTH show it isn’t.
Yes an error was made in the text. If the low pressure alarm is active and its is verified the pressure is good via gauge reading then you can proceed. Lastly aircraft performance at a predetermine power setting gives final confirmation that all is well.
Asymetric power from the engines can be compensated by opposite rudder and aileron inputs, which obviously were not applied in this situation. Probably why the captain flunked his last two sims on this scenario.
True........ nobody here is talking about the simple fact that the cpt could not fly a SE go around or approach for that matter
The critical error of the captain: Prior to landing he did not brief the possibility of a go-around, which had to contain an early decision to set both engines on full power in case they have to avoid landing and perform a go-around.
Earlier he avoided shutting down the engine, probably with a view to use it if will be necessary.
That was the right thinking, but the poor captain forgot about it when was coming close to the failed landing.
Thanks Allec.
The message we lost an aircraft ...
The message we lost a colleague ...
The message we lost 2 pax
The view of flags at half mast at the airport
The sad mood at the airport
The sight of the wreckage in the field
I'll never forget . . .
Bless you my friend too many people, especially us guys have a hard time expressing what you have been so valiant to express. We are humans and basic kindness and respect/compassion for our fellow man is all but lost. I commend you for showing that much needed compassion and remorse for this terrible situation.
Can't wait to see your videos with FS2020!
I've decided..i don't want to go any higher than pulling corn and no lower than digging potatoes..lol
😂😂
Still traveling by air most safe than any other way
Allec, I think you might have made a mistake with your captions. You have two with "oil pressure light on and pressure below 30 PSI" but one says the flight can continue and the other says the engine is to be shut down. As an aside, as soon as I saw the crew left the engine in flight idle I could foresee the problem that was rearing its head. In a turboprop an engine in flight idle is like having a huge airbrake out on the wing with all the commensurate problems.
Approach did ask if the prop was feathered
Old Livery of KLM Cityhopper was beautiful!
HOW DOES THIS NOT HAVE A MILLION VIEWS
Best video ever.
Can you put the Australian Cessna UFO story on your upcoming schedule? Love the videos! 😎✔✌💪👍
@mrdynamite71 do you mean the plane where Frederick Valentich saw UFO before his disappearance?
That story's not really up Allecs alley. I mean there's no explanation of anything.
Thats the one! 😉
@@trent3872 ruclips.net/video/rggUfr6Zh5w/видео.html
@@trent3872 i assume you're new in this channel
Always trust the gauge over a switch! In Cars, Bikes, Planes, Subs, Rockets!
but how if the sensor or another measurement part also fails, then again trusting the gauge meters would be uncertain too.
@@bimogushatriastanto Then you trust the emergency checklist, which was not followed appropriately with this flight.
@@thedocnak not exactly, i trust neither was rightly done in this case.
thankfully, the flight nowadays are getting better and safer since they keep updating their manual guide & technical feature after each bad incident.
@@bimogushatriastanto Sensors are double redundant, means you have two sensors per gauge. It's twice as likely that you have a good sensor working your gauge.Unless you are a 737 MAX....
I read an article yesterday that said in 60's it was widely believed by everyone and even insurance companies believed that twin engine plans were much safer than single engine planes. Some gentlemen spent years trying to change that because data proved it not true. The reason being was that pilots were not trained to fly a twin engine plane after one engine had failed. He was met with much resistance at the time but eventually data and facts prevailed.
Well done!
Your videos are going to look awesome in MS Flight Simulator. Hopefully more aircraft will be added quickly.
As usual an excellent reproduction of the events and well explained . Great graphics . I feel that the pilots had too few flying hours to be at the grades they held especially in the case of the capt.
Richard agreed. He really did not handle the go around well. Deck kinda got stacked against him in the end but he was clearly not ready at low altitude for the torque spin the one engine imposed going to full throttle/power. The outcome bears it out. Too bad circumstances exacted the death penalty for he and a civilian.
If there is one thing in aviation which I learned after 46 years of flying: easy to judge if you don’t know all the facts.
ruclips.net/video/J-WFeIvMJAA/видео.html
I happen to know some more facts, it's really a long time ago though.
@David Vance NOTHING
@David Vance David, usualy there are two oil press sensors, one linear for the indicator, and one that just detects above or below a certain level....these are for the centralized warning system (which name depends on the aircraft manufactorer). It ocasionaly happens that such a sensor fails and causes false warning.
For that reaseon always monitor your indicators before taking action.
@David Vance onderstand, but in general pilots are not paid to panic. Hmmm well to be honest i only felt comfy when things start to fail, came with the job ;)
Great vid again. Have you done David Coulthards plane crash from 2000?
You are so cool using the word vid instead of typing out video.
@@Capecodham ty
I don't fault the decision to return, but with 50 lbs. oil pressure, reducing the power on #2 and not bringing it back up was overkill. Fly normally and closely monitor the GAUGE. If it dropped too low, you can cut it back. A twin on one engine requires training and practice to survive. The operating manual really did have it right.
And with both at 2 500 hours, that seems to be not enough time in turboprop
Confirmation bias can kill.
Laird Cummings - I’m not so sure this was confirmation bias. It was misdiagnosis combined with incorrectly executed checklists and lack of knowledge.
@@Trevor_Austin he created the problem that he then misdiagnosed. He then turned that misdiagnosis into basis for action without critically analyzing the situation.
In short, he leapt to a conclusion then accepted the consequences of that leap as proof of his misdiagnosis. That pretty much a definition of confirmation bias.
so can false alarms
Great trouble shooting and superb flying skills.
Allec, was the final report shown as 'pilot error' or not? Sounds to me like that was the inevitable conclusion.
Unfortunate, but those warning sounds would bug anybody. If you drive your car, and you’re on the freeway going between 75-80 and a engine light comes on, or low oil pressure, or similar and the car reacts you have to react accordingly. You move over as fast as you can and check your gauges just the same. But in mid air it’s even more stressful.
Thank you, for the opportunity to learn from the mistakes of others. The caption at 13:30 maybe wrong; 'above' not 'below'.
This is my request
This one is especially heartbreaking. The cause and effect of decisions we make and do not make. Just crazy.
Just seen an interesting documentary on the Canadair C-4 Argonaut G-ALHG Palma to Manchester 1967.
@@wobblybobengland
Thanks im going to have to check this out
As an Armchair Pilot i would have pulled the left engine back as well - to protect it from seizing up.
But the Saab's engines are massively powerful - 3.500 HP. "per side".
At some point, the Captain decided the one engine was gone. Deleted. not available. Void.
And then he pushed the right hand engine to the max - at low speed.
I broke many Havocs and Mitchells this way.
May they rest in peace, and may we all learn from this.
As 35+ year mechanic. There some people no matter how hard you try to help them, They are just not mechanical inclined but this still a very important on operational engines planes so far don't fly far without them. Appears this might been a factor. Electronic components I don't trust near as much as your more mechanical components lot people don't know difference of what ones are more mechanical. I wonder if pilot had butt chew out over causing more damage to engine before over company cost. If this so? Appears training has proved this was the poor guy's weak area. Company should help them out little more in there time of need. It's bottom line all over operating cost to companies. I feel weak spots in pilots skills should pop up on computer screens when ever they happen to have any problem in air so to give them priority help in there weak areas of there skills. I have done this before on my own appears to have help. You don't want overload them with too much advise but still give them some expert advice in there weak areas. Sadly this is a business and bottom line is operations cost.
When low and slow never turn into the bad engine, or in this case the idled engine. Very high probability of a stall. Sad tale, the Captain aborted the flight out of safety concerns, chain of small mistakes led up to a tragedy. RIP victims of this crash.
Good job KLM video like
A single engine go around in the Saab shouldn’t be much to worry about, nor is flight on a single engine. Alas, yet another example of a totally avoidable crash.