okay so after a lot of failing at this, I’ve found the general mistakes that I make and why they occur: forward air: jumping too late bair in the wrong direction: jumping too early neutral air: releasing the control stick too early
Often when I perform an "Attack Cancel Bair", my character jumps full momentum towards the opponent but does a Fair while his back to the opponent is therefore in a vacuum. I do not understand why. I tried to reproduce the error in training mode using frame by frame mode but I can't
Thanks alot for this guide! Been trying to practice this for a while but had wrong information on the frames.. now everything feels so much smoother. You honestly put just enough detail in that its hard to not understand what you are saying and thats amazing.
Oh right, I tried doing something like this myself but it wasn’t as good or consistent as rar back air, but I didn’t use ftilt first. Love the little controller display too, by the way
I see someone has taken note of the massive discussions Kirby Discord seems to have over Attack Cancel B-Air every other day. Needless to say this is greatly appreciated.
2:00 thxs for explaining this part, i wss wondering why i couldnt do this with random characters. I also find this to be the easiest video to follow so good job.
Alternate method for those of you who like having both L/R set to shield: Temporarily let go of R and Z access for a bit to comfortably claw to Y and C stick. You can do this on reaction to a Chrom/Roy jab landing and do a dashing AC Bair for the kill at a pretty wide percent range. This method also makes it easier to hit the tight frame window, since pressing Y down slightly gives you the input, vs having to press a shoulder button down further. Just a little tip I picked up when messing around with AC Bair when it was first discovered, now my favorite Chrom kill confirm.
Tilt stick is only required for the standing AC bair. You can actually perform the initial dash AC bair (i.e. the one from Roy's jab-bair combo) with smash stick.
Puff main here, wanted to learn how to access bair to help with my character’s notoriously bad killing, and may I say, while this is still tough, RAR makes it look like a piece of cake.
Maybe you can explain something. Every single time I hold the joystick forward and c stick backwards at the same time I ftilt forward instead of the other way. I only do the reverse tilt when I release the joystick
Ay I found a tech. It's called the forward tilt dash, you have to run forward and then go the opposite direction so you do your turn around animation then quickly do side tilt (preferably with tilt stick) to the same direction you were running at the start, or the opposite direction of the way your turning around. You will see that you slide forward as you side tilt. I would try it out with little mac because his is very good. It is better with certain characters, but it is still good with everyone. I would love for you to make a video on this to show people it. If you do (assuming you aren't cause I'm irrelevant) then I would love for you to at the least say "someone in my comment section named Octo Wave found........" Thanks in advance love your content.
The 2nd method is no longer needed to land jab to back air. You can just do a normal RAR input out of initial dash and get the same result. I'm not sure when they changed initial dash but it's a lot easier to just do the normal input in my opinion. Pivot cancelling is still faster than a normal turnaround though.
oh yeah, i remember this from my smash corner, the inputs are a bit inconsistent and riske in my opinion, i like using it after uptilts to follow up with a a back air or reverse up air, though i prefer using a reverse aerial rush when dashing and approaching instead
Me watching it for the first time what confuses me the most,are the frames. 😔 But what matters most is that I need to learn these inputs in order. Thank you for that 😊
I always just assumed people were doing like frame perfect turn around back airs and I just was too slow to make it a true combo. And then I see this video in 2022. Anyone else in the same boat lol.
You flicked the control stick as the third step for the video but it also works if you flick the control stick first for the initial dash and then follow it up with the c stick and jump.
1:55 Is there a technical reason why pressing left on the c stick makes you do a bair? Is it because the control stick is facing to the right, and the c stick input turned you around before the jump?
wow... I iterally noticed myself just 1min after asking... for anyone who had the same problem you´re probably pressing jump and tilt stick at the same time whick makes you move forward an than just a bair to the back. if you delay your jump just a little the inputtet tilt will correctly cancel into the bair to front
@@Jorgemgm-us7de You can actually, but it's harder because you need to manually turn around with the left stick and input a tilt quickly and without moving, then you immediately cancel the turnaround tilt with jump and immediately press the left stick in the direction you want to face. Doing it without tilt stick is possible, but way less practical
Watching these 2 years late but what are the optimal controls for smash? I like my jump button to be ZL and it works fine for me but something tells me that if i wanna get better, i need to change that
If you are cancelling a tilt into an up-air... you have to be holding up on the control stick. If you are just using the "c-stick" for your up-airs then you have a messed up controller.
Hey I play with a pro controller so I have 4 shoulder buttons but I jump with X and that's the button I get consistent short hops with, so changing one of my shoulder buttons to jump and stop using X would probably be pretty bad, and I know, without playing claw, it's pretty hard and inconsistent, or maybe imposible to do the jump with X, but is it viable to have one of my shoulder set as jump but to get use to just use that one when I'm atack canceling or anything that requires it but keep using X as my main jump button?
Soooo... I am able to do it consistently when performing a back air to the right but I will almost always get a forward air when trying this technique while facing to the left. At first I thought my controller was busted however, I tried a different controller and that just wasn’t the case. So basically, I get it 100% of the time while facing the right but it’s a 50% chance while facing the left side of the stage... What’s the issue? I hope you respond, thank you.~ 💫
DarkStar7564 Coordination is the “bump” you have to get over. I started out with basically the same ratio as you did, (100% Right, like 40% Left lol) so what helped was just labbing it out in practice. It’s easier (I think since we’re generally right handed) to push the C stick LEFT than it is to pull it RIGHT so you just got to keep practicing it. I’d personally recommend going to a LARGE stage such as Final Destination, Battlefield, or even Palutena’s Temple (I honestly forgot the name of the stage, but it’s the one with the Palutena statue, the bridge, the floating temple at the top left of the stage, and the clouds under the bridge), and just practice going left on those fields using the method taught in the video. Doing that helped me tremendously when I played as Falcon, and now that I’m an aspiring Roy main, that practice had great carryover. I wish you good luck and I hope this helped!
Okay he said if your doing it to the left the analog stick left and C stick right but when I do that I do it to the right, and when your supposed to do it to the right my bake comes out to the left UGHHHH HELP ME
Hopefully you do find a use for it one day, I used it with Ridley and got a bair->nair->bair and it was EPIC. Too bad the Capt. Falcon disconnected, so I couldn't save it.😔
doc8125 Roy main here. Absolutely no reason to not do RAR bair instead since attack cancel is harder, and you can’t do full hop bair with attack cancel
@@DairInNeutral i think rar is a bit slower. Your opponent might be able to get out of hit stun and react before you can land your rar bair, if they know what they are doing.
Often when I perform an "Attack Cancel Bair", my character jumps full momentum towards the opponent but does a Fair while his back to the opponent is therefore in a vacuum. I do not understand why. I tried to reproduce the error in training mode using frame by frame mode but I can't
This shit is hard. But I feel like once you learn it... your skill is leveld up significantly. My biggest problem is getting lots of damage on someone and not being able to finish them before my next stock. There’s so many times I’m way ahead in damage and can’t finish them. Once I learn these back airs they should be flying.
Why do I sometimes get a retreating forward-air out of this? I'll get the turnaround out of the dash, but it comes out as fair with backwards momentum instead of bair. At first I thought I just needed to git gud, but I've been digging into the mechanics of the game, and this behavior doesn't make any sense. I can't even isolate it in 1-frame mode with the c-stick (at least not with tilt-stick, but more on that in a second), but I have been able to determine a few other things in 1-frame: 1) As long as you are not in the run animation, you can get a "pivot jump" and turn yourself around on the first frame of jumpsquat by simultaneously pressing back on the left stick with jump during a dash, even when you're locked into a foxtrot after six frames (when you're locked in, you can obviously press the left stick back first, as long as you're holding it . 2) Inputting an A-button attack on the same frame as that pivot jump will buffer an attack, but the type of attack (fair, bair, etc) will depend on what direction the left stick is holding on your first frame in the air out of jumpsquat. (I'm not sure if this has an established terminology, so I'll just call this a "buffered variable aerial", or "vair", for my own purposes) 3) IF, however, you wait until the SECOND or THIRD frame of jumpsquat to input an attack, it will buffer an aerial in whatever direction you were holding the left stick, REGARDLESS of what direction you wind up holding on your first frame out of jumpsquat (unless you're holding up when you buffer the attack, which will initiate an up-smash). 3a) Thus, you can dash right, press jump+left on the analogue stick to do a pivot jump, keep holding left and press A on the next frame or two, then hold analogue-right by the time you're in the air, you will do a forward-air with backwards momentum. This actually turns out to be really useful to Mii Gunner, since his fair has a kick to it that will boost you in reverse if you have any kind of backwards momentum. 4) Points 2 and 3 are true even if you're standing still, although you can only do the pivot jump from my first point out of a dash, so you can't chage which direction you're facing without moving first. It does mean that you can buffer a dair on the second or third frame of jumpsquat and come out of the jump in whatever direction you want, as well as cueing up a backwards-jump and fair to come out on the same frame, even from a dead stop; two things that wouldn't be possible without the buffer system, even with frame-perfect execution. 5) With Smash stick, you actually can get the backwards-fair behavior in 1-frame mode: if you input c-stick-back and jump on the same frame during a dash, you will get a pivot jump, but if you HOLD the c-stick back, you will get a backwards fair. The behavior in 3a is what will sometimes happen to me when trying to do attack-cancel bairs as you illustrate in this video, but this makes NO SENSE as a mis-input in real-time if I'm holding the analogue stick in the same direction: if the c-stick is just a direction+attack macro, both inputs should come out on the same frame. If I'm dashing right inputting c-stick-left (I use pro controller, but I'll still call it c-stick for clarity) on the same frame as the jump (or two frames before), it should register as a "vair", read that I'm still holding right on the analogue while now facing to the left, and input a back-air. If I'm LATE, and inputting c-stick-left AFTER the jump, I shouldn't be getting the pivot turn, and should wind up just buffering a back-air in the other direction. The only thing that makes sense is that the c-stick is inputting the direction and attack inputs on DIFFERENT FRAMES, which I just can't even fathom, and although I can't observe this behavior in 1-frame or slow motion, I have had it happen to me on four different pro controllers (haven't tried GCC with this game).
Sam Williams I experience behavior like this whenever I play Ken or Ryu. It's not possible to use this strat with them because of autoturn. If you aren't playing them then I don't know what else.
@@_sticks311 Nah, I play Ness, Lucas and Mii Gunner. I want to say it's a controller malfunction, but as I say, it's happened on four different pro controllers.
Do the same thing, but when you press jump+attack, hold up on the control stick too. I'm not sure if that's gonna be possible to perform consistently though
Like, I know the input, and how to do it, but like I can't pull it off. I keep getting the timing wrong. Should I just set the timing to 1/4 and work it up from there?
what i do is i just repeat attack cancel f-tilt on the training stage to get a feel for the timing, then every once in a while i press the shoulder jump button along with it. it takes a little while, but once you break it down into individual steps, it becomes much easier ^^
Make sure to subscribe to see more tech videos like these in the future! Let me know if there are any topics that you want covered!
Juggleboy I’m getting the bair in the opposite direction
@@SSJUnderDog probably jumping to early
new tips : *press jump at the same time you c-stick and you did it*
okay so after a lot of failing at this, I’ve found the general mistakes that I make and why they occur:
forward air: jumping too late
bair in the wrong direction: jumping too early
neutral air: releasing the control stick too early
Maaaan, i kept doing it in the wrong direction and it was pissin me off. Thanks for this
holy shit this comment alone made me pinpoint where i was fucking up, still can't do it consistently but at least when i mess up i know why now. tyty
Omg tytyt!
You can also accidentally rising back air if you are facing the wrong way
Often when I perform an "Attack Cancel Bair", my character jumps full momentum towards the opponent but does a Fair while his back to the opponent is therefore in a vacuum. I do not understand why. I tried to reproduce the error in training mode using frame by frame mode but I can't
I was hesitant at first to attempt a new control scheme but it's definitely worth it since I play Falcon.
Also same man
Same! Falcon is the first character that I really want to learn this tech for
I just clicked on it cos I main chrom
How do you use smash attacks if you assign tilts to the c-stick? I find it very inconvenient to press A and the control stick at the same time
@@user-by9ks6nc9t It's more convenient than trying to tilt with the A button though
Ive been wondering how people did the down throw back air so easily with falcon.
I always did RAR bair, I don't know how. But I hit it pretty often
@Jae Seung Kim jup, must be. But I can do the cancel now anyway
Dara do you prefer RAR or cancel more?
I was wondering how people did joker's down throw back air combos
@@chad762 you can just do it with rat
Thanks alot for this guide! Been trying to practice this for a while but had wrong information on the frames.. now everything feels so much smoother.
You honestly put just enough detail in that its hard to not understand what you are saying and thats amazing.
Been preaching this since the game came out. Glad to see it's being shown in this video.
Kirby / Roy main here, nice to see some love for both my boys!
Oh right, I tried doing something like this myself but it wasn’t as good or consistent as rar back air, but I didn’t use ftilt first. Love the little controller display too, by the way
I didn't know the difference between dash cancel back air and a RAR back air until I watched this video.
Wait what’s rar b-air? Reverse aerial rush?
@@christianguest63 Yeah
In my opinion this is way more helpful than any of the other guides idk why it is just done well.
I see someone has taken note of the massive discussions Kirby Discord seems to have over Attack Cancel B-Air every other day.
Needless to say this is greatly appreciated.
What application does it have for the my pink boi? (Kirby) It does seem like a huge deal for him
Watching this 3 years later, but I appreciate it man!
I love this channel. Not only do I learn things for all my characters, but I learn stuff for my main as well! Keep up the good work juggle
2:00 thxs for explaining this part, i wss wondering why i couldnt do this with random characters. I also find this to be the easiest video to follow so good job.
Short and sweet love how you get right down to the controls, I learned this tech easily because of this video.
So useful on Joker ;).
Alternate method for those of you who like having both L/R set to shield:
Temporarily let go of R and Z access for a bit to comfortably claw to Y and C stick. You can do this on reaction to a Chrom/Roy jab landing and do a dashing AC Bair for the kill at a pretty wide percent range. This method also makes it easier to hit the tight frame window, since pressing Y down slightly gives you the input, vs having to press a shoulder button down further. Just a little tip I picked up when messing around with AC Bair when it was first discovered, now my favorite Chrom kill confirm.
I play claw 100% of the time, but people can more easily learn how to get used to one different button mapping as opposed to an entirely new grip
How do you use smash attacks if you assign tilts to the c-stick? I find it very inconvenient to press A and the control stick at the same time
Tilt stick is only required for the standing AC bair. You can actually perform the initial dash AC bair (i.e. the one from Roy's jab-bair combo) with smash stick.
But the timing for it is a lot stricter
Zss nair bair is so easy with this! Thanks for the tech, juggleboy.
This is a great video for me since I always needed a quick and easy way to bair
Zpywagen it ain’t easy though...
@@javierserna5284 its p easy if you get used to it
Zpywagen yeah I get what your saying but it’s pretty hard to be really consistent with it. I can only manage to get the back air like 7/10 times.
Why is bair so important?
@@Shekina-0 a good handful of characters have bairs that are fast kill options
thanks as a joker main i needed this
Thanks a lot dude, as a DK main my dash attacks to instant bair were so unconsistent before I watch your video now it’s getting better for sure !
Concise and well put together. Nice video!
Thank you! I've been wondering how pro players do it. Finally I can power up my swordies, especially Roy with this!
Oh my god. Thank you so so much! I was looking for this, by far the tutorial that helped me the most! :)
As much as I hate this game and the smash community, I have to admit....
This is some quality editing and explains it very well. Well done, boy.
while i respect your opinion i have to ask why you hate the game
also why are you calling him “boy”
Because his username is literally JuggleBOY.
Puff main here, wanted to learn how to access bair to help with my character’s notoriously bad killing, and may I say, while this is still tough, RAR makes it look like a piece of cake.
Came to this vid 3 months ago, and I’m just now returning to say I’ve finally mastered this
Maybe you can explain something. Every single time I hold the joystick forward and c stick backwards at the same time I ftilt forward instead of the other way. I only do the reverse tilt when I release the joystick
godlike tutorial. Thank you!
Thank you so much for this - I went from getting Roy jab > bair 1% of the time to getting it 75%+ straight away.
yo man i appreciate you so much man even 2 years later, solved my problem thanks man
Thank you so much! Your explanation and graphics made this so easy to understand.
Just learned how to do RAR yesterday. Looking forward to attempting this later at home.
I tried to do this myself a long time ago, not knowing this was actually its own movement. So be happy that you learned about this😂
Ay I found a tech. It's called the forward tilt dash, you have to run forward and then go the opposite direction so you do your turn around animation then quickly do side tilt (preferably with tilt stick) to the same direction you were running at the start, or the opposite direction of the way your turning around. You will see that you slide forward as you side tilt. I would try it out with little mac because his is very good. It is better with certain characters, but it is still good with everyone. I would love for you to make a video on this to show people it. If you do (assuming you aren't cause I'm irrelevant) then I would love for you to at the least say "someone in my comment section named Octo Wave found........" Thanks in advance love your content.
This is actually a tech called a Pivot Cancel, Izaw made a video about it a few months ago! Pretty cool that you discovered it on your own, though!
Oh shoot really lol, sorry.
It's no problem! When i first started I thought I had invented Reverse Aerial Rushes.
The 2nd method is no longer needed to land jab to back air. You can just do a normal RAR input out of initial dash and get the same result.
I'm not sure when they changed initial dash but it's a lot easier to just do the normal input in my opinion. Pivot cancelling is still faster than a normal turnaround though.
Good video
oh yeah, i remember this from my smash corner, the inputs are a bit inconsistent and riske in my opinion, i like using it after uptilts to follow up with a a back air or reverse up air, though i prefer using a reverse aerial rush when dashing and approaching instead
Thank you I’ve been trying to make my Roy better
practicing this stuff is hard on the hands lol
This was very helpful. I didn’t even know this was a thing!
I dont need a shoulder button set to jump since I play claw right
Correct!
Ay same
Thank you so much, I jaired in tourney thanks to you!
Best tutorial out there. Thabks
Me watching it for the first time what confuses me the most,are the frames. 😔
But what matters most is that I need to learn these inputs in order.
Thank you for that 😊
I always just assumed people were doing like frame perfect turn around back airs and I just was too slow to make it a true combo. And then I see this video in 2022. Anyone else in the same boat lol.
As a roy main i needed this
Awesome tutorial
Great video
You flicked the control stick as the third step for the video but it also works if you flick the control stick first for the initial dash and then follow it up with the c stick and jump.
You can also just dash then quickly flick the control to the oppsite way thenn jump then bair
whenever i try this, i b-air the wrong way w/o turning around
what am i doing wrong?
Jumping a frame or two early
I tried doing d throw bair as falcon and could not get the timing, until I learned about attack cancelling. Thanks!
Great video, just one question - why does the right stick need to be set to tilt?
You can't cancel a smash attack
@@trowftd ok, thanks
1:55 Is there a technical reason why pressing left on the c stick makes you do a bair? Is it because the control stick is facing to the right, and the c stick input turned you around before the jump?
This was super helpful! Thanks!
Noob question: can you do it pressing Jump and Forward and the same time. Or it has to be the three inputs really fast one after another
Keep up the good work !
Great explanation!
very nice working for diddy down tilt bair but most of the time Im doing the bair in the wrong direction? anyone knows what I do wrong?
wow... I iterally noticed myself just 1min after asking... for anyone who had the same problem you´re probably pressing jump and tilt stick at the same time whick makes you move forward an than just a bair to the back. if you delay your jump just a little the inputtet tilt will correctly cancel into the bair to front
Half a year behind but okay
I keep forgetting you can cancel attacks because Rosa is the only character I try it with.
I also don't play as Rosa.
Very informative vid you got a sub from me
Is there anyway to buffer a full hop back air though? I see people do it, is it just a small turnaround then back air or is there a specific input?
Thankyou very helpful for joker
Ryu/Ken says: YOS
excellent.. subbed
Can you use this technique without putting c stick as tilt? Nice video bro very well explained!
No, you can only cancel a tilt
Juggleboy Thanks for the answer man! I’ll practice it
@@Jorgemgm-us7de You can actually, but it's harder because you need to manually turn around with the left stick and input a tilt quickly and without moving, then you immediately cancel the turnaround tilt with jump and immediately press the left stick in the direction you want to face. Doing it without tilt stick is possible, but way less practical
Are there specific applications for kirby? Outside of being faster than rar
Like shown in the first clip, it can be used after a down tilt at high percents
@juggleboy, this forces a SH aerial though right? Cannot be used to perform FH aerials?
Indeed. Any attack performed within a certain amount of frames after a jump will lock the jump into a SH.
And just like that you’ve upgraded my Roy to quickplay A button masher to quickplay A button masher that can kill off a jab.
Watching these 2 years late but what are the optimal controls for smash? I like my jump button to be ZL and it works fine for me but something tells me that if i wanna get better, i need to change that
I have a question. When I using the stick for my tilts and in air. I try to do Up Air. But N Air comes out... Why?? Thanks for your time!
If you are cancelling a tilt into an up-air... you have to be holding up on the control stick. If you are just using the "c-stick" for your up-airs then you have a messed up controller.
I'm a year late but diagonal inputs count as neutral inputs in the air. I personally hate it but it is what it is I guess
Falcon also heavily benefits with this on his combos
I cant do short hops with my shoulder button, i wish they put button sensitivity like they did with the stick
I've been wondering how guys been doing this with Ryu since hes always facing his opponent
What’s the fastest way to do a falling bair while running?
how do i do this with ken/ryu :(
Hey I play with a pro controller so I have 4 shoulder buttons but I jump with X and that's the button I get consistent short hops with, so changing one of my shoulder buttons to jump and stop using X would probably be pretty bad, and I know, without playing claw, it's pretty hard and inconsistent, or maybe imposible to do the jump with X, but is it viable to have one of my shoulder set as jump but to get use to just use that one when I'm atack canceling or anything that requires it but keep using X as my main jump button?
Yup, thats completely viable! That's how many people end up doing it, exclusively using the shoulder jump for specific techs
@@Juggleboy ohh Thanks man!
I play joker and after a down throw I just hold top left on the analog stick and when I turn around I do a back air. If this the same?
Time to hit the training arena.
No matter how much I try, I just can’t get consistent with this. Is it easier on the GameCube controller or...?
is this harder to do with two joycons? would a pro controller work better?
Soooo... I am able to do it consistently when performing a back air to the right but I will almost always get a forward air when trying this technique while facing to the left.
At first I thought my controller was busted however, I tried a different controller and that just wasn’t the case.
So basically, I get it 100% of the time while facing the right but it’s a 50% chance while facing the left side of the stage...
What’s the issue? I hope you respond, thank you.~ 💫
DarkStar7564 Coordination is the “bump” you have to get over. I started out with basically the same ratio as you did, (100% Right, like 40% Left lol) so what helped was just labbing it out in practice. It’s easier (I think since we’re generally right handed) to push the C stick LEFT than it is to pull it RIGHT so you just got to keep practicing it.
I’d personally recommend going to a LARGE stage such as Final Destination, Battlefield, or even Palutena’s Temple (I honestly forgot the name of the stage, but it’s the one with the Palutena statue, the bridge, the floating temple at the top left of the stage, and the clouds under the bridge), and just practice going left on those fields using the method taught in the video. Doing that helped me tremendously when I played as Falcon, and now that I’m an aspiring Roy main, that practice had great carryover. I wish you good luck and I hope this helped!
This is really easy for me.
It always does back air in the wrong direction
I’m doing the back air but it’s not hitting my opponents it’s like I’m just jumping and bairing (standing version)
Okay he said if your doing it to the left the analog stick left and C stick right but when I do that I do it to the right, and when your supposed to do it to the right my bake comes out to the left UGHHHH HELP ME
I can do RAR Bair, This way consistently, But I can never do standing attack cancel, But I've also never found a use for it
Hopefully you do find a use for it one day, I used it with Ridley and got a bair->nair->bair and it was EPIC. Too bad the Capt. Falcon disconnected, so I couldn't save it.😔
It is pretty much needed to play for example roy, jab to attack cancel bair is his best kill comfirm
doc8125 Roy main here. Absolutely no reason to not do RAR bair instead since attack cancel is harder, and you can’t do full hop bair with attack cancel
@@DairInNeutral well, on some % it is not true unless you attack cancel it, at least from what I have heard
@@DairInNeutral i think rar is a bit slower. Your opponent might be able to get out of hit stun and react before you can land your rar bair, if they know what they are doing.
So goddamn hard
Often when I perform an "Attack Cancel Bair", my character jumps full momentum towards the opponent but does a Fair while his back to the opponent is therefore in a vacuum. I do not understand why. I tried to reproduce the error in training mode using frame by frame mode but I can't
Gotta time it right.
This shit is hard. But I feel like once you learn it... your skill is leveld up significantly. My biggest problem is getting lots of damage on someone and not being able to finish them before my next stock. There’s so many times I’m way ahead in damage and can’t finish them. Once I learn these back airs they should be flying.
Does this also work for Ryu and Ken considering they have an auto turnaround mechanic?
Why do I sometimes get a retreating forward-air out of this? I'll get the turnaround out of the dash, but it comes out as fair with backwards momentum instead of bair. At first I thought I just needed to git gud, but I've been digging into the mechanics of the game, and this behavior doesn't make any sense. I can't even isolate it in 1-frame mode with the c-stick (at least not with tilt-stick, but more on that in a second), but I have been able to determine a few other things in 1-frame:
1) As long as you are not in the run animation, you can get a "pivot jump" and turn yourself around on the first frame of jumpsquat by simultaneously pressing back on the left stick with jump during a dash, even when you're locked into a foxtrot after six frames (when you're locked in, you can obviously press the left stick back first, as long as you're holding it .
2) Inputting an A-button attack on the same frame as that pivot jump will buffer an attack, but the type of attack (fair, bair, etc) will depend on what direction the left stick is holding on your first frame in the air out of jumpsquat. (I'm not sure if this has an established terminology, so I'll just call this a "buffered variable aerial", or "vair", for my own purposes)
3) IF, however, you wait until the SECOND or THIRD frame of jumpsquat to input an attack, it will buffer an aerial in whatever direction you were holding the left stick, REGARDLESS of what direction you wind up holding on your first frame out of jumpsquat (unless you're holding up when you buffer the attack, which will initiate an up-smash).
3a) Thus, you can dash right, press jump+left on the analogue stick to do a pivot jump, keep holding left and press A on the next frame or two, then hold analogue-right by the time you're in the air, you will do a forward-air with backwards momentum. This actually turns out to be really useful to Mii Gunner, since his fair has a kick to it that will boost you in reverse if you have any kind of backwards momentum.
4) Points 2 and 3 are true even if you're standing still, although you can only do the pivot jump from my first point out of a dash, so you can't chage which direction you're facing without moving first. It does mean that you can buffer a dair on the second or third frame of jumpsquat and come out of the jump in whatever direction you want, as well as cueing up a backwards-jump and fair to come out on the same frame, even from a dead stop; two things that wouldn't be possible without the buffer system, even with frame-perfect execution.
5) With Smash stick, you actually can get the backwards-fair behavior in 1-frame mode: if you input c-stick-back and jump on the same frame during a dash, you will get a pivot jump, but if you HOLD the c-stick back, you will get a backwards fair.
The behavior in 3a is what will sometimes happen to me when trying to do attack-cancel bairs as you illustrate in this video, but this makes NO SENSE as a mis-input in real-time if I'm holding the analogue stick in the same direction: if the c-stick is just a direction+attack macro, both inputs should come out on the same frame. If I'm dashing right inputting c-stick-left (I use pro controller, but I'll still call it c-stick for clarity) on the same frame as the jump (or two frames before), it should register as a "vair", read that I'm still holding right on the analogue while now facing to the left, and input a back-air. If I'm LATE, and inputting c-stick-left AFTER the jump, I shouldn't be getting the pivot turn, and should wind up just buffering a back-air in the other direction. The only thing that makes sense is that the c-stick is inputting the direction and attack inputs on DIFFERENT FRAMES, which I just can't even fathom, and although I can't observe this behavior in 1-frame or slow motion, I have had it happen to me on four different pro controllers (haven't tried GCC with this game).
Sam Williams I experience behavior like this whenever I play Ken or Ryu. It's not possible to use this strat with them because of autoturn. If you aren't playing them then I don't know what else.
@@_sticks311 Nah, I play Ness, Lucas and Mii Gunner. I want to say it's a controller malfunction, but as I say, it's happened on four different pro controllers.
How do you do turnaround back air attack cancel (with jab and grab) can u please explain it in words in the description or on this comment pls
Is there a way to turn around while doing an up air instead of a bair? My character benefits more from the back hit of up air
Do the same thing, but when you press jump+attack, hold up on the control stick too. I'm not sure if that's gonna be possible to perform consistently though
You're like 7 months late, but I'll watch anyways.
Honestly yeah but tbh this video explains it better than the last one i watched haha.
Do your manually have to jump i use tap jump
Marx don’t use tap jump
@@DrSparr0w I use tap jump, and I can pull it off just fine
Zero dislikes,
That what I like to see
Is this how Mario down throws into bair?
Lol. Y'all suckers have to learn this tech. I play Zelda so I don't have to! :)
Same 😂
So can you not do this without the C stick? Is it specific to having tilt on that?
Tom Booker yep
Like, I know the input, and how to do it, but like I can't pull it off. I keep getting the timing wrong.
Should I just set the timing to 1/4 and work it up from there?
Yeah, definitely try and find the slowest speed that still gives you trouble and work your way up from there!
what i do is i just repeat attack cancel f-tilt on the training stage to get a feel for the timing, then every once in a while i press the shoulder jump button along with it. it takes a little while, but once you break it down into individual steps, it becomes much easier ^^