Life-Changing Lessons of Working Weird Jobs (ft. Derek Sivers)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- Get started with Rocket Money today using this link: rocketmoney.com/idgaf
Get a one-month trial with Spotify for just $1: shopify.com/idgaf
Successful people talk a lot about what made them successful. But they're rarely asked about all the things that went wrong.
What about all of the things that failed? Or all the times they got fired? Embarrassed themselves? Spent time in jobs that were just plain weird or awful?
No one asks this stuff. Until now of course.
In this episode, I talk to my friend Derek Sivers about the weird and awful jobs that eventually led him to become a millionaire. From circus ringleader to founder of one the most successful music start-ups of our time, this guy has a story to tell.
Derek Sivers is the author of four books, founder of CD Baby which he sold for $22 million (then gave most of it away), and just an all-around badass.
Derek’s website: sive.rs/
Derek’s upcoming book, Useful Not True: sive.rs/u
0:00 | Introduction
1:44 | How Derek became a circus ringleader
4:48 | Derek’s favorite circus act
8:19 | Has Derek actually worked as a clown?
8:50 | Mark’s stint as a stockbroker
13:47 | The “metaphorical time zone”
16:18 | Mark’s takeaway from his time in investment banking
19:40 | Lessons from Derek’s telemarketing job
24:27 | Is Mark always Mark?
26:32 | Mark’s stint as a bar doorman
30:30 | Getting fired isn’t the worst thing
31:55 | Hardship doesn’t have to suck
35:20 | Derek’s taste of Landmark
37:23 | Your goals should serve you
38:55 | Find a better reason than money
41:57 | Skills we don’t need to survive
43:15 | Derek’s definition of “home”
45:21 | How Derek became a rock star in Japan
49:33 | Derek being inspired by the great cities he’s lived in
53:41 | What Derek learned from his time in the rock band
57:10 | How to get a job when someone’s not hiring
1:01:06 | Mark’s lessons from being a men’s dating coach
1:08:46 | Closing
My stuff:
markmanson.net/
/ markmanson
/ iammarkmanson
/ markmansonnet
/ markmanson
/ iammarkmanson
Theme Song: "Lola (2020 Stereo Remaster)" by The Kinks
t.lickd.co/GePXo8w4wKd
License ID: dep3VveYaG2
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
So basically be a jack of all trades and master of none? Doesn't seem like good advice.
@@komoruthe full quote is: "A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." btw
I am in the process of saying yes to everything to now picking and choosing what I say yes to. Would love to hear more about how people navigate this transition.
Hii ji
Never clicked so fast. You both are literally my top two. Can't wait to listen to this.
‘It’s mostly just guys that have no one to talk to about this stuff’. While I was dating, that was so real. You ask a guy while he’s hitting on you with all that manic energy ‘you good man?’ And just watch them fall apart. I didn’t mind dates that ended as therapy sessions by the end, but I started asking new prospectives if they’d ever been to therapy.
Loved this episode! Been a fan since your blog days. Also howdy from New Zealand! Great as always guys.
Well, being rejected dozens and dozen and dozen of times, you get desperate and people can feel it with your body language.The pressure to men to succeed is gigantic, anything we do "badly" will be fuel to refusal and reinforce the "looser" state of mind that is already intense. It is the same behaviors during professionnal interviews, we are not secure deep down because we mostly don't have the power to say no. It's a dynamic of power in reality.
I was there, went to therapy and now I don't hit at all. I finally understood that others people will not make me happy, and that I am not that attractive as a man, I'm not even "seen" as a man and my experience confirm this. I need to change to be a "man" in the eyes of women and others mens, but do I really want to change myself to be respected? fuck no, you can all eat shit respectfully, I am living my life on my own terms, it's not normal that mens are in this situation, we are being slowly killed, exemple? in my town, there is the "day of the woman's rights" which is fine, but what about the mens and conditions of works? The answer is simple, it's not the problem doesn't exist, it's we are NOT seen as human beings....until you are an attractive motherfucker.
Sorry If I went overboard, but I think my experience is not unique at all. And why not talk to close ones? Because nobody give a shit about men. Share the difficulties in a vulnerable moment ? for only us to be humiliated and isolated socially. Be there, done that.Fuck this, I prefer a loaded revolver in my mouth.
What was the right answer? If they had been to therapy, was it good because they had a higher chance of had worked through or at least be self aware of their own issues? Or was it bad, because they needed therapy in the first place?
I really enjoy how podcasts with Derek turn into a two-way interview
And he turns every email into a two-way conversation. Try emailing him!
Wow, that Ryuichi Sakamoto story was inspiring. Even if I had amazing guitar skills, I'm sure I would've felt too nervous or not good enough to even try to submit anything to an artist I admired. Lesson learned!
Yes, I agree that’s hard-core stuff
It’s hard enough to do when you’re not exhausted, that’s totally epic
putting on a persona is SO helpful! i was so scared as a new teacher, i learned to put on a persona of a Mary Poppins type, and it worked wonders!
Kinda wished I learn about this when I'm much, much younger.
Derek Sivers is one of my favourite contemporary thinkers in this world, really looking forward to his new book!
Gotta love a Mark Manson and Derek Sivers collab ❤🙌
💯💯💯💯
This was great, Mark. Well done.
I have to second the strategy of "creating your own job" or the idea that you just need to show them they need you. That's how I get all my jobs. It took me from cleaning toilets to making $220k/yr.
Great advice.
The best hour spent in a very long time. Thank you gentlemen!
We need to remember. Most the advice on the internet where they talk about the success probably have a 90% fail rate in real life.
Working as a creative means to pay the bills in the past I've also worked as a receptionist, breakfast waitress, bar woman, supply teacher, stocking clubs and customer service. It has been tiring and brilliant and I've got many funny stories to tell and learnt to give less of a f*ck in the creative world. Through failing abominably infront of children in schools and random families heckling you in street theatre, it makes the real world a bit less scary. Thank God I've build a thicker skin (which I needed to because I'm a walking marshmallow)
All part of the rich tapestry we call life as my Grandad said...
I found putting on a persona and thinking “how would a responsible professional act in this situation” actually works way better than it should. But by the same token I feel like I’m lying to myself or I’m forcing myself to be someone I’m not and that lead me down a spiral of depression and anxiety about my life and career and it’s just like wow. How did that change so quickly. Felt like things were going well and now I’m an imposter? Weird
In a world that everything seems to be so confusing I find Mark and his work that actually makes sense
When i first started waiting tables a customer described his "special" order, but i was confused because it was exactly like it was listed on the menu. The other server knew that people want to feel special, so she had let him believe that he was getting it made special for him. She also knew customers tip more when they're made to feel special.
Fantastic timing as always. I got in to property management a year ago for the sake of learning and saving on rent before moving to NY. I didn’t love it, but it was good enough for the year and stuck it out.
I got to NY in january and took the leasing job at the property i live at, and already quit because i hated it so badly. But i sat as long as i could with it knowing that working this job i hate is still a good experience, it’s not bad to work a bad job. I learned that i simply can’t work with the public any longer and have to pursue a new career. If i hadn’t taken this job, i wouldn’t have learned that. Working a myriad of different fields is crucial to learning what works for us
happy for you!
I really like these two together. I just watched 24 mins without taking a breath. Easiest podcast to binge in the world
Just loving this! Listening in increments. Thanks Mark & Derek!
Great podcast and conversation you guys had, lots to think about...thanks for putting this out there 🙏🏼
This is probably my top favorite episode!
absolutely brilliant video, it really resonated with some problems i'm tackling in my life right now, from finding a fulfilling career path to dealing with childhood events, finding someone to speak with, realising healthy relationships. having been recently diagnosed as an emotional wreck i'm ready to start fixing things, and i'm hardly a good enough writer to express what it means to me to hear about these things from someone further ahead in life
thanks
When Derek says he like to work…I hear him say he likes to play:). Superb interview and thanks for the great content mark and crew!
Ps so true about the hedonic adaptation issue when you no longer worry about money…
Hi Mark (and Derek)! Your recent videos on Korea and this video stood out to me, as a recent college graduate who is healing from his trauma in his upbringing lmao XD Can I ask what books/resources you used to understand Confucian culture and East Asian culture better?
I also liked your comment about authenticity in Eastern vs. Western cultures: I've lived in France growing up, where I was once told I was "two-faced", which surprisingly can be a compliment in France. I wrestled with being multiple sides of myself in the US (while coming from an East Asian family), and suddenly I understood why those values of "being myself" were clashing, after hearing your comments in 25:20. I appreciate all the work you do! (:
I can't stand enough how much of a positive influence you are for me and a lot of people. After a day of hard work doing complex technical stuff (and sometimes boring), hearing your intro motivates me a lot 😊 Thanks Mark!! ❤ ❤ I will see a large chunk of this episode for sure ^_^
NZ is an amazing place to do great things, it depends on what kind of greatness you aspire to.
A very interesting episode. Thanks for sharing
Really enjoyed that. Thanks
You were in my dream a couple of nights ago and you were going to start a game show on RUclips! For this you decided to make an island (a literal island in the sea out of boulders and concrete). You made it in the shape of a giant cock and balls. I was so disappointed to wake up and find out it wasn't real haha
Mark and Derek will go down as two of the true thought leaders of our generation. Thank you for this collaboration. Will certainly be listening again down the road!
best man on earth
I would listen to every episode of a podcast that was just you and Derek talking.
I learned so much! This was an amazing interview! I too am enthusiastic like Derek- and am gleeful about most things! I will be listening to this again and again! Thank you!
- Home = no obstacles to do/ be you
- Meaning = You. You decide the meaning. Your perception defines a problem (Problem =
Desire - Perception)... Any problem is an emotional problem. Problem = You.
- You = Fluid. Roles you play at different times and context. Your role should serve your goal, and your goal should serve you
- Live to make a maximum positive impact (live to work)
- Monetizing a hobby, kills a hobby
- Teacher learns more than a student
Hey Mark, just wanted to let you know that this is the only podcast where it felt like host is not running after watch time.
I was under the impression, these last few years at least, that a huge part of happiness is just being your authentic self every where you go and with everything you do and just accepting yourself in these situations. This episode kind of threw me on my head
This is a great clip ❤
glad derek is back
This is my new favorite podcast. I find so much of what you say, your approaches to work and life, and your backgrounds so relatable and refreshing. I'm a recent subscriber and I can't express how much value I've been getting from these videos. Really appreciate the work you're doing ❤
Solid advice and interesting experiences shared!
~an American in Korea 🇰🇷
This was a great poddy
Omg, I love Derek Sivers! And your RUclips is a surprise favorite of mine now. ☺️
So cool that Derek got to play with Ryuichi Sakamoto. A true musical legend
32:50 It is also implied that you're an optimist with respect to where you're going.
14:02 - Wait Derek Sivers lives in New Zealand!? How do I meet up with him!! (I'm in Tauranga, New Zealand).
요즘 고민도 많고 걱정도 많아서 머리가 너무 복잡한데 영상보는 동안 아무런 생각 없이 재밌게 영상을 보니까 너무 좋네요! 저도 다른 사람에게 제 영상을 보는 동안 행복했으면 하는 감정이 가득합니다
😊😅
Why do I feel like I think like you and everyone around me gets pissed off at the way I think.😂.
Okay I am actually enjoying the podcast and I am getting bits and pieces of help from you / your work / life experience. Thankyou Mark.
Derek's eyes are filled with light as if he is looking at heaven 😂
It somehow made me laugh so hard this conversation... :D
30:39 that's because you live in the US, in Spain, if you lost your job, you are gonna be unemployed for years 😢 That's why most of us struggle with fear to be fired
What a flow of conversation, i learnt so much about being contrarian and choosing paths. Your stories were humorous and educational. Hope you all talk more in the future! keep up the insights Mark!
I just listened to this podcast and now I fell into a deep Derek Sivers hole. I am fascinated with this human glad that you brought him on your podcasts wonderful guest!
Gap yôq mazza qilib kôrdim👍👍👍👍👍
Derek is back!
God I love these!
I sent my ideas. They ripped me off - I never saw a PENNY.
THAT is why people don't just send stuff.
Couldn't help but notice the use of the Yes Ladder technique in the magazine sales story.
Ask a couple easy "yes" questions before you ask for the hard "yes".
"Hi, is this Mr.____?"
"Yes."
"You still live at _____?
"Yes."
"Hi this Bob from Time Magazine blah blah blah blah blah blah. It's a great deal. We're just going to renew you now, okay?"
"Yes."
SOLD!
Great video as always
fuck yea, the intro is back!
Andy Puddicombe, founder of headspace, also started on the path to the circus I believe. Trend?
A bit disappointed to hear you’re quitting your marathon goal. You seemed so stoked earlier. But hey, things change. I hope you keep enjoying those 6-8 miles runs Mark! Go get ‘em, babe.
Derek Sivers camera has a focus on his mic not on his face
Because of that his face is blur. Next time try to adjust your camera focus.
43:10 But making a good gin and tonic is pretty good to make friends and survive in a different country actually.
I honestly needed to hear the thing about being willing to work for free. I've been trying to get art going as a side gig and have had social media has ingrained in me that I should never work for free. But I think I've already missed some potentially very door opening opportunities because of that.
I wanted to be a programmer when I was in college... but shit happens and I wasnt able to finish my degree. I worked as an insurance agent for many years and I hated it. Now I am attending a progamming bootcamp at age 31 and hoping to get that dream I buried deep inside.
You have me at “ft Derek Sivers” ❤❤.
I'll join the professional pest business. As a fulltime caretaker it's all I'd have time for
Heyy Mark was Will Smith's character in Hitch based on your avatar as a dating coach ?.. ps love your RUclips avatar...
Please talk more about you time as dating coach. I could listen to hours of that.
I was literally just now looking for some video to listen in the background while working thinking "mark could upload something like now right god", well thanks for listening to my thoughts
Totally agree! I had to stop and get my phone to pause for certain parts lol
I usually listen on repeat 😅
@@evanhiggins7298 always have to rewatch some parts as well hahaha
@@aldajoao474 im rewatching every single video rn hahahah
Mascot work is the best 😆
I’m just wondering if this is from the same session as their first talk. (Since Derek is wearing the same outfit. But not Mark. Weird.)
I like Derek and you.
You need to watch the movie Captain Fantastic
If you've been training for a marathon only a couple of months, you should stay under 8 miles anyways.
Career advice for people that are autistic/ADHD would be nice. For those of us who don't have the the daily ability to function and can no longer mask and don't have or can't sustain people skills and don't fit anywhere.
Nice❤
IMO, Your friend should have stayed for the remainder of the advanced course. Every "cult" has some "dirt" in it and Landmark is no exception. They definitely have some stupid "rituals". I took the forum, the advanced, and a whole bunch of their additional seminars. The only problem with LM now, is that it appears that all their eleven week courses are now only available online. When I did it (2007 - 2011) it was great to interact with an entire room of people who were all there for the sole purpose of bettering themselves. Oh well.
Hey, you guys are talking a lot about not working for money but for another reason. I know working just for cash cannot be healthy in the long term, but what about for a girl who wants to earn money to pay all the debt for her parents and raise her upcoming nephew. I of course want to find a job that I love and I think I have found it(not very sure) but at the same time I want to make money to help people I love and not necessarily for a luxurious life cause I do not need it.
Easy with those cuts. My eyes are bleeding
I find a lot of what Derek says to be terrible advice and cliche'. Typical American society advice. A lot goes against what Mark teaches.
The moment he mentioned " The art of manliness" i got flattered 😊
❤❤❤
Great podcast 😊
If a job can be automated, it absolutely should. We need teachers and elder care nurses and carpenters. The world needs less desk jockeys.
I am trying to put down office work. But lve worked as a roofer and HVAC, when on a roof in 100 sunny day. It is really hard to care about jobs in doors in the shade. Those jobs really don't matter all that much.
I loved almost everything in the video. I just can not agree that good steak and gin tonic are "hedonistic pleasure things"...lol I don't think someone would be much "impressed" by those things though.
There is nothing wrong with comfort, good food and good drinks. If someone feels better after staying in sh*ty hostels...maybe it is good for them but why is it presented as general recommendation? Surviving skills are good thing to learn but living in a survival mode is not actually living a life.
Ugh your thumbnail looks a bit odd mate
i need mark help
W
First! Ugh, more like 8th
I Wana changed my Life 😞
lol giving away free work seems like bad advice
I am the 238th viewer
First
🏆
Wow 😮😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😅
"I've never worked for money." The definitive example of privilege. Man, try raising kids with that philosophy. (Your buddy had kids, sure, but he had money first.) Try NOT having 100 little safety nets of friends and family doing well enough that they're NOT living hand to mouth and can afford to take you in if you're broke. Trying to hear the wisdom, but hard to listen past that noise. At least acknowledge how friggin lucky you guys are to have friends/girlfriends/family who could and would CARRY YOU while you were basically an adult non-contributor, at least financially. Maybe you offered other things, but all the hugs in the world don't matter if you're freezing or can't eat or can't get to a doctor when you need it. You forgot the biggest lesson every adult needs: When the chips are down, do what you can with what you have. Real adults "work for money". No one should be ashamed of supporting themselves or their families in any legal way.
Early in my career I said yes to carving pumpkins for $40 an hour at pigeon forge.❤ It was some of the easiest and most fun money I ever made.
I got a great idea , how about i drive you around for free and as im driving i can tell you my ideas