Thank you! This is exactly the info that I needed. I just got my firtst drone ever. The nanohawk. I practiced in the tinywhoop simulator for a few days and was feeling confident. But the actual nanohawk was way more agressive than the sim whoops. So this video allowed me to tune down the throttle and rates a bit to more closely resemble the sim. Now I was able to actually fly my drone in the room. Thank you!
Thank you Sir! I just can't tell you how much your input has helped me over the years. If it wasn't for you I would have given this up a long time ago. You are the man! I learned something today.....
Great job on this whole tutorial. I just updated my good quad and now it flips out. Turns out it changed my rates to 1200 on center sensitivity and it was trying to do flips while I was keeping center stick. This guide made sense of what the numbers should be and now I can feel a degree of control I didn't know I needed.
For anyone it might help, to bring throttle stick position down on a quad with a high take off/hoover stick position, set expo to 0.5~1 and mid point to 1 (opposite mid to that stated in the video). I only figured this out after JB's great explanation of how it all worked! Thanks for the amazing videos!
Hmmm... around 25 mins where you talk about setting Throttle MID to 0 and adding some EXP, you say the quad will lift off at lower throttle, but the curve looks to be the opposite, i.e. it looks like it takes way more stick to get the same amount of lift. Seems like you really want throttle MID = 1 so that you have most of the stick motion available after lift off.
I think low center sensitivity is supposed to be for cinematic flying. It helps reduce jerky movements to get a more fluid look if you have shaky fingers. Low center sensitivity is detrimental for proximity flying though because it will slow your response time if you need to make slight heading adjustments to avoid obstacles. You need to find the best compromise between fluidity and responsiveness if you are doing a scenery fly-by with close proximity to obstacles. High expo is used in conjunction with a high max rate to allow sharp turns and tricks without compromising precision / accuracy when flying near obstacles.
Great videos as usual. I am a little confused about the throttle mid function though. The part I don't understand is about how changing throttle min to 0 helps you take off with a lower throttle stick position. If anything it looks like it would require more throttle because the throttle curve with 0 mid is under the linear throttle position the whole time. What am I missing?
No I think you're right. That curve meant more sensitivity near 0. It would have to be logarithmic (not exponential) to have take off closer to the bottom deflection
This is exactly the video i needed. Limiting the Throttle 🙌🙌🙏 One of the issues i was having was taking off tooooo quick and falling out the sky too quick. I used to give it what i thought was "little" throttle and it turns into a rocket. Definitely gonna play around till i find my sweet spot. Everyone's so obsessed with freestyle or racing that its difficult for cinewhoopers to know what to try.
ok lol so after a long night,(post rant) lol of consulting JOSHUA FROM THE PAST i made it to current stable set up , and seems crossfire aint such a bad guy. at some point I ran across the troubleshooting video where it was a bad receiver.....THANKS FOR ALL YOU DO AND HAVE DONE!
I think there's a problem with the 24:25 section. You say to put the mid point at the bottom to lower the hover point. I think it should be at the top. Say hover is at 50% throttle. With mid at .5, 50% throttle was 50% stick deflection. When you lowered it, 50% throttle went to 60% stick deflection. that RAISED the hover point along the stick position. Putting the MID at the top or bottom is trading more precision there for lower precision at the other end. You just flipped it the wrong way. lowering the hover point should be increasing the precision at the top (MID at top) for a loss at the bottom.
I was under the impression that quick rates was directly lifted from emu flight. So people transferring from emu flight over to betaflight would want to keep their same rates and curve. Either way, fantastic video series Joshua, this is going to be invaluable to guys just getting started, and I've learned a ton about 4.3 and the new configurator, so big props to you!
Is there any reason to not use "curves" in the radio controller with linear rates in BetaFlight? I feel curves give you more control for the rate curve than BetaFlight
You definitely want your max rate between Joshua Bardwell's 800 deg/s and Steele's 1100 deg/s. Because they're like the best freestyle pilots ever. Headmatza and Phantom too. he higher your rates, the bigger the man you are. More is always better. If you're flying 1300, you're the boss man of juicy, so you might as well start out there with the right 1000 or over rates to begin with, and if not, always try to push those rates always higher to your limits
hi Joshua and other guys I address that to everyone: in Liftoff where you setup rates there is an option that is not on Beta Flight, it’s called Throttle Idle and you can set it between 0.2 and 0.10 - where is that in Beta Flight? Or how is this option called in Beta Flight / how to “mirror” it from Liftoff?
I guess I passed all tests from your videos now, my quad is updated for the first time and it flies well! But my question is, is it possible that with same PIDs and same rates, drone is more aggressive/punchy? I dont feel it as cinewhoop anymore, but more like freestyler 😂 (Protek35HD)
Is there still a function in the modes tab to program a switch to swap between rate profiles? Most tutorials for doing that look to be on older versions of BetaFlight and I’m struggling to find it
I need some guidance since I have bought the Tinyhawk 2 RTF kid and there are none of the rate types/no drop down menu. Is this because i use the RTF controller?
Hey Joshua! Love your content as I have learned so much! Silly question, how do I "link" my DJI FPV remote so I can see my rate changes in the little model in Betaflight as you did in this video? Sorry for being a noob...
The remote binds to the air unit, then the air unit has an SBUS output wire that connects to the FC -- usually in the same plug the rest of the vTX is connected to. Then you have to set up the Betaflight Ports tab and Receiver tab to recognize the SBUS signal from the vTX.
I just realized I was attempting to do this with just usb power to the FC and no power to the Air unit. got it working. Thank you again for all you do for the community!
after updating to betalight 4.2.11 everything seemed to work fine now crossfire went bezerk and stays bound for seconds then disconnects agent x, agent m all dont show any of my devices and disconnects from web like the bind did , im so sick of how complicated it has become to just fly. originally switched because spectrum failsafe's so far tbs crossfire is a nightmare.
I have always used a linear stick feel, but since early 2018 I reduced the rate from 667 to 420. My old i6X has longer sticks than my shiny new Zorro, I have noticed that I'm more twitchy around centre stick now, LOL.
I'm 99% sure there is a CLI option to change that, yes. Go to the CLI, type "dump" and look through the rateprofile section and I bet you will see the parameter.
@@JoshuaBardwellhi Joshua and other guys I address that to everyone: in Liftoff where you setup rates there is an option that is not on Beta Flight, it’s called Throttle Idle and you can set it between 0.2 and 0.10 - where is that in Beta Flight? Or how is this option called in Beta Flight / how to “mirror” it from Liftoff?
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of expo correctly. In my mind, if more stick deflection is needed to get them same rate result as that of a linear curve closer when you're close to the origin, you have lost sensitivity not increased it. It's what allows you to make small corrections without a lot of movement. As you hit the hockey stick port of the curve, you use less deflection. To me that means sensitivity increases as the curve gets steeper because the rate (y) is function of the stick movement (x) using some variant of an exponential curve function. . To add to that, when you go into Actual Rates and lower the Sensitivity number you say get more expo, more softness and more sensitivity in the center. That sounds like a contradiction. How does one get more sensitivity by lowering sensitivity? Have I been having wrong the whole time?
Sensitivity in Actual Rates is really just a target deg/s rate value for the center-stick part of the curve. Calling it sensitivity, to me, is sort of backwards. I would rather see it referred to as center-stick rate and full-stick rate. The argument about sensitivity is semantic. I like to say that expo gives you more "sensitive" control because you are able to make small changes in output with large changes in input. You could also say that the output is less sensitive to changes in the input. As long as we both understand what is happening, it's fine.
When you have more measuring points in a given scale you increase sensitivity, that's what expo does in the center. You get more resolution. A thermometer would also be more sensitive if it's able to show more decimals. It's not sensitive if it's jumping up 10 degree in 10mm then it would be by just going one degree up in the same scale.
Ok so I'm following along and I messed up, I made a back up and then updated my hglrc xjb 145 but the newest version of beta flight is not compatible so my back up didn't work.. guess I need to do a factory pids tune? On hglrc they list 2 files a 40ch or a 48ch how do you know what one to use? So I'll be watching the rest of your videos to figure out what to do with the file when I figure out what one to use lol. Oh and I used the links got a mobula 6 on the way for the back yard!
When going from one major version to another, you can't restore the backup. Either re-build the configuration from scratch or go back to the old version and restore the configuration.
@@JoshuaBardwell thanks I'll try my best now is as good a time as any to learn! Lol bound to happen sooner than later. I think I'll set it to the default pids and see how it flys. I probably won't notice I'm not very good anyways.
Thanks! With the chip shortages, a new problem emerges: is it possible to copy the PIDs and rates from one FC to another of a different brand and expect the same performance? I had a F411 but I need either a new different brand F411 or F722.
Absolutely, two typical F7 or F4 chips will fly absolutely identical no matter the brand. If you "downgrade" from F7 to F4, you may need to dial down certain settings but modern BF has gotten more efficient and its rare that I see any speed problems with F4 FCs. You can use cli dumps to quickly transfer all your settings. But dont just copy and paste all of it, only paste the sections that you actually want.
I don't think your last example is correct, if you set your midpoint at 0 and add expo you're going to soften the start of your throttle curve. If you already have a quad that's hovering at 50% throttle that's just going to make you need a higher throttle position to hover as your early throttle movement won't have as much effect. It would definitely help if you had an overpowered quad with a super low idle point but it would be going the wrong way for your example.
I'm thinking the same thing Cassius. Negative expo would with a midpoint at 0 would seem to get to the hover point earlier with less throttle input.Or, alternatively, a midpoint of 1 with a positive expo. In both cases I think you end up with a concave curve instead of a convex one.
All this is on her drone basis, correct? Is there any way to just transfer your common settings to all of the drones in your fleet? Example throttle center and throttle expo if you want them all the same is there a way to do that as opposed to going into every drone and changing it or apply those settings to drones you build in the future
the only reason raceflight rates exist is for ex-raceflight pilots? i've never flown raceflight in my life and now i'm frustrated when i have to figure out what my raceflight rates are in betaflight numbers. and the expo is actually mathematically exponential instead of the bastardization that btfl uses
What a tremendous resource this BF tutorial is, well done Joshua, this is bread and butter for all FPV pilots. 😁❤
Thank you! This is exactly the info that I needed. I just got my firtst drone ever. The nanohawk. I practiced in the tinywhoop simulator for a few days and was feeling confident. But the actual nanohawk was way more agressive than the sim whoops. So this video allowed me to tune down the throttle and rates a bit to more closely resemble the sim. Now I was able to actually fly my drone in the room. Thank you!
Thank you Sir! I just can't tell you how much your input has helped me over the years. If it wasn't for you I would have given this up a long time ago. You are the man! I learned something today.....
Great job on this whole tutorial. I just updated my good quad and now it flips out. Turns out it changed my rates to 1200 on center sensitivity and it was trying to do flips while I was keeping center stick. This guide made sense of what the numbers should be and now I can feel a degree of control I didn't know I needed.
For anyone it might help, to bring throttle stick position down on a quad with a high take off/hoover stick position, set expo to 0.5~1 and mid point to 1 (opposite mid to that stated in the video).
I only figured this out after JB's great explanation of how it all worked! Thanks for the amazing videos!
Thanks JB!
As crazy as it sounds, I quickly understood betaflight rates from messing around with the color curves in Photoshop.
Hmmm... around 25 mins where you talk about setting Throttle MID to 0 and adding some EXP, you say the quad will lift off at lower throttle, but the curve looks to be the opposite, i.e. it looks like it takes way more stick to get the same amount of lift. Seems like you really want throttle MID = 1 so that you have most of the stick motion available after lift off.
I think low center sensitivity is supposed to be for cinematic flying. It helps reduce jerky movements to get a more fluid look if you have shaky fingers.
Low center sensitivity is detrimental for proximity flying though because it will slow your response time if you need to make slight heading adjustments to avoid obstacles. You need to find the best compromise between fluidity and responsiveness if you are doing a scenery fly-by with close proximity to obstacles.
High expo is used in conjunction with a high max rate to allow sharp turns and tricks without compromising precision / accuracy when flying near obstacles.
Thanks JB for the Rate Profile Tab explanations. 😊👍 next..
This has helped me tremendously to control my throttle and roll indoors with my 2s. Great video
Even if I fly for one year already, I always learn something new every time I look your videos ! Thanks
Bravo! Some great explanations there. You made rates exciting! I'm eager to experiment with some of those presets. Very helpful as usual. Thx :)
Great videos as usual. I am a little confused about the throttle mid function though. The part I don't understand is about how changing throttle min to 0 helps you take off with a lower throttle stick position. If anything it looks like it would require more throttle because the throttle curve with 0 mid is under the linear throttle position the whole time. What am I missing?
No I think you're right. That curve meant more sensitivity near 0. It would have to be logarithmic (not exponential) to have take off closer to the bottom deflection
This is exactly the video i needed. Limiting the Throttle 🙌🙌🙏
One of the issues i was having was taking off tooooo quick and falling out the sky too quick.
I used to give it what i thought was "little" throttle and it turns into a rocket. Definitely gonna play around till i find my sweet spot.
Everyone's so obsessed with freestyle or racing that its difficult for cinewhoopers to know what to try.
ok lol so after a long night,(post rant) lol of consulting JOSHUA FROM THE PAST i made it to current stable set up , and seems crossfire aint such a bad guy. at some point I ran across the troubleshooting video where it was a bad receiver.....THANKS FOR ALL YOU DO AND HAVE DONE!
Great walkthrough. Thx Joshua.
Great vid as always, thank you🙂
I think there's a problem with the 24:25 section. You say to put the mid point at the bottom to lower the hover point. I think it should be at the top. Say hover is at 50% throttle. With mid at .5, 50% throttle was 50% stick deflection. When you lowered it, 50% throttle went to 60% stick deflection. that RAISED the hover point along the stick position. Putting the MID at the top or bottom is trading more precision there for lower precision at the other end. You just flipped it the wrong way. lowering the hover point should be increasing the precision at the top (MID at top) for a loss at the bottom.
yep he got it wrong way round.
The DEFAULT RATES are PERFECT
If you are new if not they are way way too slow
Thanks for all the guides! FYI this video isn't in your full playlist
Very useful, as always.
Thank you!
I was under the impression that quick rates was directly lifted from emu flight. So people transferring from emu flight over to betaflight would want to keep their same rates and curve. Either way, fantastic video series Joshua, this is going to be invaluable to guys just getting started, and I've learned a ton about 4.3 and the new configurator, so big props to you!
Informativ as always
change my mind
Is there any reason to not use "curves" in the radio controller with linear rates in BetaFlight? I feel curves give you more control for the rate curve than BetaFlight
You definitely want your max rate between Joshua Bardwell's 800 deg/s and Steele's 1100 deg/s. Because they're like the best freestyle pilots ever. Headmatza and Phantom too. he higher your rates, the bigger the man you are. More is always better. If you're flying 1300, you're the boss man of juicy, so you might as well start out there with the right 1000 or over rates to begin with, and if not, always try to push those rates always higher to your limits
Can you do a beeper setup?
hi Joshua and other guys I address that to everyone: in Liftoff where you setup rates there is an option that is not on Beta Flight, it’s called Throttle Idle and you can set it between 0.2 and 0.10 - where is that in Beta Flight? Or how is this option called in Beta Flight / how to “mirror” it from Liftoff?
I guess I passed all tests from your videos now, my quad is updated for the first time and it flies well! But my question is, is it possible that with same PIDs and same rates, drone is more aggressive/punchy? I dont feel it as cinewhoop anymore, but more like freestyler 😂 (Protek35HD)
Is there still a function in the modes tab to program a switch to swap between rate profiles? Most tutorials for doing that look to be on older versions of BetaFlight and I’m struggling to find it
ruclips.net/video/F6xTZkAfpR0/видео.html
hi josh keep it up, very interested in budget digital, lol. find it please!!!!
So when u set to some one else's rates going with there profile,, how do u go back to yur own rates
Good information sir 🙂
I guess I have been keeping up with the Joneses. I have to look up that flight controller.
I need some guidance since I have bought the Tinyhawk 2 RTF kid and there are none of the rate types/no drop down menu. Is this because i use the RTF controller?
Hey Joshua! Love your content as I have learned so much! Silly question, how do I "link" my DJI FPV remote so I can see my rate changes in the little model in Betaflight as you did in this video? Sorry for being a noob...
The remote binds to the air unit, then the air unit has an SBUS output wire that connects to the FC -- usually in the same plug the rest of the vTX is connected to. Then you have to set up the Betaflight Ports tab and Receiver tab to recognize the SBUS signal from the vTX.
@@JoshuaBardwell thank you so much!
I just realized I was attempting to do this with just usb power to the FC and no power to the Air unit. got it working. Thank you again for all you do for the community!
ok so this time edge tx buddy erased and installed black pearl but the radio still wont turn on like the power button wont even turn red
after updating to betalight 4.2.11 everything seemed to work fine now crossfire went bezerk and stays bound for seconds then disconnects agent x, agent m all dont show any of my devices and disconnects from web like the bind did , im so sick of how complicated it has become to just fly. originally switched because spectrum failsafe's so far tbs crossfire is a nightmare.
I have always used a linear stick feel, but since early 2018 I reduced the rate from 667 to 420. My old i6X has longer sticks than my shiny new Zorro, I have noticed that I'm more twitchy around centre stick now, LOL.
Why would it be that I don't have the box "rates type" to choose if Betaflight rates or Actual rates? Simply I don't have this section!
You must be on an older version of Betaflight.
Hi can someone explain why in betaflight it shows rates instead of super rates? Is it the same?
ruclips.net/video/m3A9xgRmcws/видео.htmlsi=Bb3YQBPZZQ_GscAx
Great video as always.
Is there a way to create custom name for rateprofile to show in osd instead of the rate_1, rate_2 and so on?
I'm 99% sure there is a CLI option to change that, yes. Go to the CLI, type "dump" and look through the rateprofile section and I bet you will see the parameter.
@@JoshuaBardwell Ok, thanks, I'll look for it.
@@JoshuaBardwellhi Joshua and other guys I address that to everyone: in Liftoff where you setup rates there is an option that is not on Beta Flight, it’s called Throttle Idle and you can set it between 0.2 and 0.10 - where is that in Beta Flight? Or how is this option called in Beta Flight / how to “mirror” it from Liftoff?
Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of expo correctly. In my mind, if more stick deflection is needed to get them same rate result as that of a linear curve closer when you're close to the origin, you have lost sensitivity not increased it. It's what allows you to make small corrections without a lot of movement. As you hit the hockey stick port of the curve, you use less deflection. To me that means sensitivity increases as the curve gets steeper because the rate (y) is function of the stick movement (x) using some variant of an exponential curve function.
.
To add to that, when you go into Actual Rates and lower the Sensitivity number you say get more expo, more softness and more sensitivity in the center. That sounds like a contradiction. How does one get more sensitivity by lowering sensitivity? Have I been having wrong the whole time?
Sensitivity in Actual Rates is really just a target deg/s rate value for the center-stick part of the curve. Calling it sensitivity, to me, is sort of backwards. I would rather see it referred to as center-stick rate and full-stick rate.
The argument about sensitivity is semantic. I like to say that expo gives you more "sensitive" control because you are able to make small changes in output with large changes in input. You could also say that the output is less sensitive to changes in the input. As long as we both understand what is happening, it's fine.
When you have more measuring points in a given scale you increase sensitivity, that's what expo does in the center. You get more resolution.
A thermometer would also be more sensitive if it's able to show more decimals. It's not sensitive if it's jumping up 10 degree in 10mm then it would be by just going one degree up in the same scale.
Ok so I'm following along and I messed up, I made a back up and then updated my hglrc xjb 145 but the newest version of beta flight is not compatible so my back up didn't work.. guess I need to do a factory pids tune? On hglrc they list 2 files a 40ch or a 48ch how do you know what one to use? So I'll be watching the rest of your videos to figure out what to do with the file when I figure out what one to use lol. Oh and I used the links got a mobula 6 on the way for the back yard!
When going from one major version to another, you can't restore the backup. Either re-build the configuration from scratch or go back to the old version and restore the configuration.
@@JoshuaBardwell thanks I'll try my best now is as good a time as any to learn! Lol bound to happen sooner than later. I think I'll set it to the default pids and see how it flys. I probably won't notice I'm not very good anyways.
Sheesh… JB is catching up… two in a row! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
using btfl 4.1.1 with conf 10.7.2 want to go to 4.3 but do i need 4.2 first?
You will reset your config either way so you might as well go straight to 4.3.
Thanks! With the chip shortages, a new problem emerges: is it possible to copy the PIDs and rates from one FC to another of a different brand and expect the same performance? I had a F411 but I need either a new different brand F411 or F722.
Absolutely, two typical F7 or F4 chips will fly absolutely identical no matter the brand. If you "downgrade" from F7 to F4, you may need to dial down certain settings but modern BF has gotten more efficient and its rare that I see any speed problems with F4 FCs.
You can use cli dumps to quickly transfer all your settings. But dont just copy and paste all of it, only paste the sections that you actually want.
@@drkastenbrot Thanks!
Nice
you just keep nailing all tutorials is't it ?!!!!!
I don't think your last example is correct, if you set your midpoint at 0 and add expo you're going to soften the start of your throttle curve. If you already have a quad that's hovering at 50% throttle that's just going to make you need a higher throttle position to hover as your early throttle movement won't have as much effect. It would definitely help if you had an overpowered quad with a super low idle point but it would be going the wrong way for your example.
I'm thinking the same thing Cassius. Negative expo would with a midpoint at 0 would seem to get to the hover point earlier with less throttle input.Or, alternatively, a midpoint of 1 with a positive expo. In both cases I think you end up with a concave curve instead of a convex one.
All this is on her drone basis, correct? Is there any way to just transfer your common settings to all of the drones in your fleet? Example throttle center and throttle expo if you want them all the same is there a way to do that as opposed to going into every drone and changing it or apply those settings to drones you build in the future
Make a preset in betaflight 4.3 of your drone. You’ll use the save button in the preset tab
the only reason raceflight rates exist is for ex-raceflight pilots? i've never flown raceflight in my life and now i'm frustrated when i have to figure out what my raceflight rates are in betaflight numbers. and the expo is actually mathematically exponential instead of the bastardization that btfl uses
🙏👏👏👏
Actual 200 800 0 lemme know if anyone likes.
I’m Joshua bardwell and nobody’s gonna learn something today
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