When Did the First Tiberium War Begin? - C&C Lore
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- The meteor carrying Tiberium arrived in 1995, but the events of Tiberian Dawn started some time after that. Let's see if we can find out when.
The game manual scans, GDI Style Guide, Kane's Criminal Dossier, and Intel Database are all available from www.cnc.gamepedia.com
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Music by Frank Klepacki and Jarrid Mendelson
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#commandandconquer #cncremastered
I think the reference to exposing GDI as liars is about the massacre in Tib Dawn (Bialystok, IIRC). You know, the one with "Is that camera still running?". It makes sense to me, that everyone within Nod would believe that GDI massacred a town full of civilians, and just ignore any claims to the contrary. Hence the reference to mainstream media. And of course, if Kane maintains this version of events, then it is canon to the Brotherhood. You don't question the Messiah. Just my interpretation.
Keep up the good work. This is nerd porn of the highest possible caliber. My heart jumps for joy whenever No Strings Prd pops up in my feed with a new vid. Much love from Denmark
I reckon you're right about Bialystok, makes a lot of sense.
Cheers, really glad you enjoyed it!
GDI did nothing wrong ;-;
Also there's little need to question Kane's version of events when you're a Nod soldier around TibWar3. Likely you were born in a Yellow Zone shortly before Tib War 2. The Nod Commander who would have pulled off the massacre likely died in Tib War 1 and the man who gave the mission to this commander was executed by Kane shortly afterwards.
The true story would be known by only a handful of people and most - if not all - were dead by the time TW3 began...except for Kane.
(For some reason I imagine the Nod Commander being the guy who shoots the other Nod soldier who runs away before the Sarajevo Temple is destroyed.)
@@Darkdaej one small problem with your timeline: I think the Bialystok mission comes _after_ Kane disposes of Seth. Seth oversees your efforts in Africa.
One more thing to add.
According to Tiberian Dawn the Ion Cannon is just out of preliminary test when the GDI commander were on the mission of taking out the bio research facility. So the time frame of Renegade is in the last few weeks, even days of the first war. Which means that 2020 is the end point of that war if the manual is considered canon.
2022. The war lasted for three years. Renegade takes place between the last 3 missions of the GDI campaign. Havoc assaulted the temple in Egypt, but Kane had already left to his temple in Europe, probably even earlier as throughout Renegade Kane was probably in Europe the entire time.
Nice job Hoping for a remaster of the TS / FS Next and hopefully a new game that follows ON from the end of Firestorm
and cast the old 1 back - plus resurrect CABLE
I knew it! I vaguely remember the 2019 date and something about renegade being in 2020 but reading wiki and other soruces would always imply that the war took place in the late 90s this always felt wrong to me! Thanks for validating this memory I was starting to think it was a Mandela effect! Go figure wiki was wrong
Hah, glad I could help, the mandela effect can be maddening! Yeah, there's a few things I disagree with the wiki over (Gamepedia tends to be better than Fandom since the latter is abandoned, but even still). I tend to bypass the wiki entirely and just go with whatever official sources I can find since the wikis have a history of fanfiction and very often don't cite sources, very useful as a starting place though but I can't just take its word
@@NoStringsPrd I really can't see it being 2019.
This is freaking amazing bro. Who knew the coof was actually Tiberium all along!!!
10:03 hey, waitaminute!
I love that Renegade was the thing that helped solve this mystery considering it's a game that is often overlooked.
It was crystal clear all along.
@@CaveyMoth Hahaha! took me a second, but that was good.
Renegade was my first FPS game before I played halo or COD, and it still feels fun and exciting to play, where cod feels sort of bland and uninteresting.
Love that game!
@@Commodore22345 I guess that makes sense... it could be that the start date was that far back, but it doesn’t make as much sense for it to be 1998 given the rate of spread of the tiberium if that is to be believed. 3 years and most of the world is covered? Humanity collectively couldn’t harvest fast enough to sustain that moving forward. It makes more sense for it to be in 2019, giving the countries in the world time to build infrastructure for tiberium while also threatening them... besides, 1998 would mean that all the technologies that were developed for the first game would have to appear in three years, which is to fast, I think, considering the rate of development of our own technology. And finally, I think the 2019 start date makes more sense because of the level of development of Kane’s control over the second and third worlds, considering Nod was only known about since around 1995. If they went from normal countries to mass supporting Nod, that would require levels of propaganda and control that would be bordering on psychic, even for Kane.
Ah, who knows. But thanks for posting this! I’ll have to think about it some more in depth
Try Renegade X ;)
Man, You're the kinda creator that my 2009 c&c obsessed self wanted to see videos from! All this research you do teaches me things about C&C that not even the WIKI could.
The combination of a long exposure to tiberium and chronosphere particels made us C&C obsessed.
WIKI's are notriously shit, revisionist, biased, or outright false most often. Scary how the WIKI format of info. control somehow proliferated into fandoms as well. hmmm
Abel was working for the GDI according to the Bible
Did it give any further info on what Abel was doing? I've read through the C&C bible once before but never saw any mention of him
@@Darkfire7881 I think he means the regular Bible :p
I like the idea of Kane Lives.
@Cristian Miguel OV According to the Bible, _everyone_ is Adam's bloodline, lol.
Kane/Cain whom murdered his brother Able fled to the land of Nod with a mark; that for whomsoever kills him shalt feel his wrath 7 fold.
What if Kane actually *dies* but he is resurrected after a period of time, by a curse that prevents him from staying dead? :o
So coronavirus in 2020 and italy was one of the most afflicted country.
EVERYTHING IS LINKED
nwo is gdi. bush did 911
@@Joker-no1fz Bouncing to my boy's Tiberium crystal for hours.
So what? Is there gonna be any fire rain from the sky? An invasion of alien follows?
grip="flu" & mushroom aka fungus.. Tiberium is fungus. It's alien. It forces mutations upon it's hosts with the presence of certain catalyst (often radioactive substances). It's cancer. A flesh eating, corrupting,evolving organism. That breeds new species of life!
Calm down Nod agent.
KANE LIVES so you don't have to
He is secretly the nostalgia critic, just look at his bookcase in one of the trailers, they're identical xd
Hello I'm the messiah Kane I live so you don't have too
Hahahaha
‘And then we found it. Renegade.’
Me:
:3
That was also me :3
:3
:3
:3
:3
Don't know when Tiberian Dawn truly started but we all agree the Tiberium saga hasn't ended yet after Kane's Wrath *wink wink*
I wonder how C&C4 devs feel like whenever they see their game mentioned. I kinda feel bad for them as they didn't even want to make a C&C game, they were making a unrelated game and the execs made them slap the C&C IP on top of it.
Yeesh, yeah, the devs really did their best with the bad situation they were dealt
@@NoStringsPrd On the upside, the RA2 "Tiberian Crisis" mod, while not good in story, managed to integrate the C&C4 factions with their branches really well in terms of gameplay.
I don't even consider anything from C&C3 as having happened, given how much the canon from that game conflicted with what came prior.
@@Freelancer117 I think the C&C 3 story fits pretty well with the previous games and doesn't contradict them (and if it does, it's just a little bit). Some things changed, indeed, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Last time I was this early, it was the early 2000s and I was playing C&C: First Decade collection on my Dad's PC.
Another wonderful video as always, keep up the great work.
First Decade Collection
So, i should expect a ion cannon strike into my house in the next year?
Mankind has forgotten you, Kane. And I'm not afraid of ghosts or you.
Okay who told him? That was supposed to be top secret guys
KANE LIVES! FOR THE BROTHERHOOD!
If the war started in 2019, and it took 3 years to end, then you will receive your ion strike delivery in 2022...
any updates on the ion cannon strike? how's the temple these days? how's sarajevo?
So that means we are now in the actual era where the First Tiberian War started. The original release was a look into the future we are now actually experiencing through the remaster.
"We are going to have to act
If we want to live in a different world
There is a very unstable situation on the ground
That is unfolding very quickly..."
Move towards more ideas that will actually help, uhh, bring this thing to an end.
Funny that with Trump the mainstream media, World Health Organization and UN and NATO were exposed in 2019 for been corrupt as was hollywood and the pedophile elites. And Antifa been declared by Trump as a Terrorist organization. All what Kaylen said happened in 2019. Weird stuff. Or a script that the elites are fulfilling?
@David Bros sorry, but Kaylen who?
@@redkiller3129 In the vid. The blonde chick that talked about how the Brotherhood exposed elites. Pretty sure that was her name.
Where's my dinosaurs then?
So TW1 was set in 2020? That's very interesting, and unfortunate that the C&C wiki seems to give conflicting info.
However, I do find it a bit odd, that the second war would begin less than 10 years later, and with such a huge tech gap. I know you can explain it away with Tiberium. But still seems too close together.
Regardless, awesome video!
Biplanes and jets were 10 years apart too, it’s just a product of them wartime booms
Anything and Nukes were 10 years apart, big jump
@@AVerySexuallyDeviantOrange
Sure there were big technological leaps between WW1 and WW2. But you have to think, if TW1 and TW2 are only 7 years apart, that's not much time for GDI to recover financially or militarily. Also Tiberium is causing massive ecological damage. Realistically GDI just wouldnt have the resources to redesign their entire military in 7 years. There was over 20 years between WW1 and WW2
@@Darkfire7881 The thing is, GDI didn't need to recover much at all. They almost completely unanimously won the first Tiberium War, and gained one of the most powerful weapons in the history of Mankind from it as well: The Ion Cannon. An Orbital laser that cannot be defended from in any way. Even a nuclear missile could in theory be realistically sabotaged in-flight. The Ion Cannon is completely unavoidable and would almost totally establish GDI's military dominance over the world. GDI having the backing of nearly every western nation in the world also helps in that regard. As well, the technology _used_ by GDI to make the Ion Cannon in the first place didn't go anywhere, as by the end of the first war they had already established the Philadelphia, GDI's orbital deployment and strategic center, and had multiple space-faring ships that can enter and exit earth atmosphere on a whim, such as the Kodiak.
@@Templarfreak We still have to consider 7 years is a short time, for GDI to completely overhaul its military from modern era machinery (Abrams, M113s, Humvees, etc) to Titans and the Kodiak, is a bit of a stretch for a 7 year period. Even with the help of Tiberium. Not to mention GDI, by Tiberian Sun, had begun resettling people to the Arctic circle within 7 years aswell? Again, possible, but I just find the time gap too small for all this to happen.
Then we have to factor in Nod. They lost the war hole handedly, and suffered a civil war right after, yet they recovered in 7 years?
I'm think in 2019 NOD
committed genocide in Białystok, just like in GDI campaign.
I had been assuming it was around 1997 - 2003 all along, thanks so much for giving us this, it makes more sense than I thought it would. Whilst 8 years doesn't seem like a long time between two fully fledge wars, it gives some credence to why TW2 might only have been a year with Nod not really recovering enough to wage a prolonged war despite seeming like the most well equipped version of Nod in all three games. Well 2019-2022 is an interesting time. Maybe they had to act if they wanted to live in a different world.
Sure we have all of these dates, but none of this adds up to what we see in the very first game: interlaced with the cutscenes, we have footage of what is airing on the tv programming of the time, and what is airing then is decidedly 90's cultural references. We may have a penchant for creating things based on nostalgia, so one could argue that it's nostalgia material, but for _all_ of it to be so predominantly identifiable as representing the times when the game came out, it can't just be 90's nostalgia, it must be true 90's tv, this creates a disconnect between the dates presented outside of the games (up to Tib Wars) and what we see in the game in question when the first tiberium war was happening.
Given that the GDI is fielding Abrams, Humvees, M113s, and A-10s, and with the camouflage patterns shown, I think the first war would have started in the late 90s or very early 2000s.
Also, Tiberium leading to no technolgical progress for 24 years, but then going from 90s tech to space stations, railguns, and hover tanks in just 11 years doesn't seem right.
interesting, but i have to politely disagree
1) it wasnt an abrams tank, just a yellow tank called medium tank. so in a way it's even worse, a war that broke out in 2019 still being fought by tanks with a ww2 type. in our timeline we havent had any non-MBT's since the 60s or so and some would argue that the germans invented it with the highly unreliable panther tank. but this is where stefan's question comes in. did the game play in the near future of the 90s or was it current but with near future tech? gotcha, wrong question. it's from another video about split timelines and how things have changed, ie einstein and so on. well, in the tiberium timeline it seems that the old tank types have remained. what is this info good for? medium tank implies there's a light tank (nod unit) and a heavy tank (mammoth tank). and historically the soviets have built experimental tanks with a single big turret with two guns. needless to say, the mammoth tank isnt even close in terms of looks to the abrams tank and at least 90% of the game seems to not yet be powered by tiberium like the laser tower and the walkers from tiberian sun, so we're left to assume that mammoth tanks are somewhat realistic heavy or superheavy tanks that we could build with our tech if we really wanted to. but for that to outclass the abrams tank so much that it appears as a medium tank...? that's a bit much. so here's my pick: the light tank of the nod is the t-54 from the soviets. they made a ton, sold it to all allies and when the soviet union collapsed their tanks spread even more on the black market for pennies on the dollar, perfect for some rebel groups to pick up. easy to maintain, fast, cheap, a gun that does its job, armor that protects its occupants from machinegun fire. on the downside, its 100mm gun is far stronger than the 75mm gun as noted for the light tank. on the wiki it says that it's actually the m2 bradley with a 75mm gun configuration which makes little sense to me, since that's american, a rarity by itself and also to call it a tank. the medium tank to me looks just like the leopard 1, but since that tank is actually faster than the t54 (which in turn is actually quite slow in comparison to modern MBTs) i guess i would have to choose the centurion mk 10, though that one doesnt perfectly resemble the medium tank anymore with the missing two black spots. at least the cannon is spot on at 105mm though! the mammoth or super-heavy tank of the gdi would have to be some crazy contraption. mbt's are usually very fast these days, so even the heaviest among them, the abrams, would outspeed virtually any non-light tank that came before the advent of mbt's. keep in mind that the abrams tank is around 10 metric tonnes heavier than the centurion mk 10 which itself is about 10 metric tonnes heavier than the t54. so what we'd be looking at would be german ww2 era tank construction fanfic like something between the maus or ratte which actually works, lol. the only thing that's at least in that spirit i can think of would be a vastly uparmored, modernised and reequipped version of the soviet land-battleship t35 with its multiturreted design, sheer size and slow speed. exchange two of those turrets for atgm launchers and fuse the remaining ones together for a single big double barrelled turret, shorten and widen it till it's roughly square shaped and we've pretty much got the mammoth tank. but let's not forget that the flame and stealth tanks are also a thing and while we've seen our fair share of flamethrower equipped tanks in ww2 and vietnam, none of them even looked remotely like the one depicted in cnc and the stealth tank is scifi entirely. all this said, do we really know if all the units that we can use or even build ourselves throughout the game are just what we're allowed to lorewise, ie the gdi/nod didnt want to escalate at first or didnt think more was necessary, whereas in the later missions you have a higher rank and at that point the war is total? could it also be that eg the mammoth tank was a brand new invention at the time and could only be achieved with the help of tiberium tech?
2) the iss is pretty old. construction began in 1998 and ended a decade later. the philadelphia was armored, i'll give it that. not sure what the ion cannon is precisely, but whatever weapon it could be it's probably powered by the sun, hence its long recharge time. would imply some truly massive sun sails, though. if it's actually nuclear, then that could make it smaller as seen in the clips, but than you'd need to get all of that up there, with or without engineers working on it 24/7. still reasonably realistic in my opinion, though.
3) the railgun on the mammoth walker mk 2 was definitely tiberium fuelled, just like i would assume any armored walker would be, as irl this is far off to be a real thing on the battlefield.
4) hover tanks? i only remember the hover mlrs that looked like mammoth tanks. but no, mlrs can be built relatively lightly in comparison to actual tanks, so it hovering isnt that crazy to me. what i dont get at all are the disruptors. dafuq is it even? beam something? and let's not even mention the super fast burrowers of all kinds that can be stopped by concrete
so yeah, without tiberium you cant really explain any of these things. but if we do accept tiberium fuel, tiberium materials or magic or whatever as a fact, all of these things make more sense. at first everyone just had outdated weapons bc they hoped these were all just gonna be short local conflicts. but as the war expanded and became more total, more and more and newer and newer equipment was thrown into the meat grinder and technologies started developing as rapidly as in ww2.
Well, the game was developed in the 90s so the devs obviously would not know what type of vehicles and guns we would have in 2019. I don't think camouflage patterns are relevant cuz GDI seems to sport a desert one and Nod a urban one in TibDawn, it seems it's more of a faction color than anything.
During TibDawn we also have things like the Ion Cannon and the stealth tank, so I wouldn't say it's all "90s tech", but if you meant the incredible transition between TibDawn and TibSun we can argue and speculate that it's plausible considering all the planet is being controlled by GDI and Nod. Maybe our modern States can't advance that much, but I'm sure GDI with all the funding, resources, shared tech and industries of the First World could.
And Nod probably has the resources of the other 100 countries, plus the Prophet himself who can design otherworldly stuff
Biplanes and jets are only ten years apart, so this is possible. On the other hand, the development of space stations, railguns, and hover tanks already begun since 1995 while 1st Tiberium War occurred in 2019. In 2030, these technologies conducted by GDI and Nod finally matured. Also the existence of Tiberium provided Nod and GDI much needed funds to facilitate the advancement of technologies.
I own a command and conquer based Discord RP server, this is definatly going into the server lore! (Just like your recent videos)
Awsome work!
What is the discord ?
Link?
Link p l o x ?
Link pls
i like how remastered collection came out the year first tib war begun in the tib universe.
Coincidence? We think not!
The only source that somewhat contradicts this analysis is the Tiberian Sun manual: 'In the decades following his disappearance, Kane sightings became common myth, especially prevalent amongst regions of former Nod
strongholds."
If the First Tiberium War began in 2019, decades couldn't have passed since Kane's presumed death by the time of C&C2, since its events begin in 2030. I guess Renegade did a minor retcon there, establishing that the First Tiberium War ended in the early 2020's, and C&C3 rolled with it.
Just curious - How many hours of research did it take you to figure this one out? I salute you for the effort put into this little conundrum.
Not too much for this one in particular, I go through the files quite regularly when making videos to make sure I'm along the right lines, and I came across the first mention of 2019 when I was making the Forgotten doc I think and just made a mental note, so it's kind of passive research while I'm making videos. CTRL+F is a lifesaver for searching documents for years as well
I just want to reiterate how much I'm loving these lore videos. The quality is just fantastic, and you voice is perfect for the job. I don't know about everyone else, but please keep these coming! =)
Wow that means a lot, thank you so much, glad you're enjoying them!
Hey Strings, I just thought of something. In Tiberium Wars, one of the Intel talks about Havoc still being alive by TW3, albeit retired. Doing some quick math, I'm not sure the average age most people are when they obtain the rank of Captain, but let's just say 30. And if TW1 was in 2000, then by 2047, Havoc would be 77, so not completely out of the question, but that's still fairly old.
Now if we go with your timeline, then he'd be 57.
Just wondered if that actually supported your position.
That's an interesting point I hadn't considered. Not sure whether it supports or not but absolutely worth taking on board, cheers!
I love how in depth you go into the lore
HOLY MOTHER OF MERCY... I don't know what to say it's just MIND-BLOWING revelation! In short, in 1995 we got the "Tiberium Dawn" and 25 years later we get Remaster... when true war begins. Almost as if it had been planned... 😗
BTW: Thx very much for making this video! It was very educational. Can't wait to watch your next material! 😆
I think the year 2019 is apt for the start of the First Tiberium War, as the spread of Tiberium is ensured by Kane to strangle the world on the economic front, although GDI noticed the alarming truth early, and moved to strike.
And thus, TW1 erupted.
I would try to explain how absolutely completely wrong you are but i am afraid GDI may confuse my home for another temple of nod.
This is mind blowing, if you'd made this earlier then we'd have a little fun celebration on March 12th. Great videos as always.
That is some impressive research. If I had to pick it apart though, I would have to point out that the weaponry doesn't seem to match the period. It's somewhat understandable that in the 90's, nobody would know where weapons development would go, and the props and renders Westwood used would have to be based on what was available and recogniseable then. There quite a few vehicles and weapons in Tiberium Dawn that don't fit in hindsight, and probably not even with foresight.
The HMMWV quickly became obsolete as a military vehicle in the 2000's after it proved vulnerable to IEDs left by the Taliban and insurgent armies in Afghanistan and Iraq, and is now more common amongst police forces (to much protest as of this writing). In the Tiberium universe, it likely would have suffered even worse.
The M113 remains common even today, so GDI having a surpluss makes sense despite their spotty record under the Israeli Defence Force. But with access to more modern APCs from a variety of nations, with better protection against anti-tank weapons, it seems strange for GDI to send its infantry into battle with outdated and vulnerable equipment.
The M16A1 assault rifle was still serviceable back in 1995, but by now it has already been replaced by a various other rifles such as the A4 variant. Renegade, with its assault rifle that seems more comparable to the H&K G36, fits the modern era much better.
The A-10 "Warthog" is an odd number. The US appears to have an on-again/off-again relationship with its pet pig and cannot make up its mind about replacing it. One might expect a higher attrition rate from the Tiberium war than in real life forcing the issue of retiring this one much earlier and replacing it with the F-35 despite the costs.
The M1 Abrams tank's longevity probably translates to the Tiberium universe as well, with the only suitable replacement being the fictional Mammoth tank. Likely as a response to tank losses at the hands of Nod. But its unchallenged supremacy over anything Nod can muster would probably guarantee it remains unaltered even after the Mammoth's debut.
Nod vehicles, like the Chenowth, the M2 Bradley and AH-64 Apache can probably be overlooked for outdatedness. Not only is it logical to assume that Nod would not have access to more modern real-life equavalent weapons, the Brotherhood does not even use them for conventional use in the first place. They are suitable platforms to build modified variants, or employed in a guerilla strategy where their inherent advantages better serve Nod's goals.
well, also a political environment of tiberian universe, especially if we account red alert 1 as canon, are a lot different from our world, so one could expect Nod to field ex-soviet, chineese, or sometimes french weaponry as most of 3rd world countries did in the 90s, but we see M2 Bradley fitted to be a light tank, which from military point of view makes no sense, as its armour doesnt stand a chance against any MBT, so they would not survive ecounter with M1 Abrams. Its just a fiction. If they rebooted series with a lot more tech capabilities which are offered but today IT, they would put a lot more sophicstication to the units and strategies. But last not least - the simplicity is the key for having fun from C&C.
@@Dollar1998 The Bradly was sold to a number of countries which by Tib Dawn are Nod Alinged. Principality Saudi Arabia. so it fits that Nod would have access to them and could clone the vehicle.
You could also say that even if a technology exists in an alternate reality, it doesn't mean that Nod would have had access to it (especially if Nod has limited diplomatic ties outside of Africa) or would want it. Countries and organizations decide for or against import and export all the time and weapons manufacturing of certain equipment is often restricted. You also have to remember that Nod starts out being heavily focused in the African region, which I think that their early army reflects. A lot of their early equipment comes across as light, open and fast vehicles, well suited for a desert environment, which obviously doesn't account for all of Africa, but still. It actually looks as if a lot of the equipment is improvised from desert vehicles or vehicles used in desert conflicts. Some lighter outdated equipment may even be better suited in a desert environment as one can easily imagine that heavy equipment such as a mammoth tank would overheat endlessly in the proving grounds of Nod. Even if the mammoth tank would be hopelessly outdated after having existed for half a century. Lore-wise, I guess the GDI would have access to a lot of the material that the defeated Allieds had. Although I am not sure why GDI would ever have had access to the mammoth tank in a universe where the Soviets won to be overtaken by Nod. Because in such a universe, the mammoth tank would have been passed onto Nod instead of the Allies. This actually presents a bit of a lore-wise problem for me. Remember that according to the time-lines of No Strings, the tiberium wars and Kane taking over only takes place if the Soviets win in RA1. I guess it could be argued that by the time of the first tiberium war, both sides would have had historical access to the prints of the mammoth tank after so much time had passed since RA1. But maybe Kane did not have access to appropriate production facilities or did not value the tank for combat in the region. Also, realistically, two-barreled tanks are not really a good thing, which may be what he had realized at this point. Then again, in an alternate reality, none of the weapons are likely identical to the weapons we have in our universe as those years would have developed differently in those two timelines. Therefore, it likely wouldn't be the same APC, medium tank, helicopter or rifle as we have or have had. Just like our sam sites aren't the same as those in neither RA1 or the first tiberium war, in spite of similarities.
You can hear the smile in Stefan's voice in the last 2 or so minutes. Giddy little bugger, cant lie though, joined in the giddiness myself.
huge respect to you Sir! it seems simple, just a date, but how much it changes in perspective of the game!
Love your work Stephan!
EA has probably given up 2019 as the start of TW1, the Designer Diary said TW1 begins in 2020:
www.gamespot.com/articles/command-and-conquer-3-tiberium-wars-designer-diary-1-the-story-behind-the-gdi-faction/1100-6155386/
But it has many problems, such as the fact that GDI is made up of the G8 rather than the G7, Mike Verdu's Blog (A Little About Tiberium,
Nov. 17, 2006)said :"We’ve updated our fiction describing the formation of GDI based on fan feedback."
We don't see 2020 or G8 in the game IDB, So they may have listened to their fans at the November 2006 meeting, But the cutscene will probably have been shot by then and cannot be changed.
CNCNZ's 2012 meeting show that 2019 remains a problem: Cypher:"But ultimately, it didn't do much for the game itself. Except for maybe the team taking back their "TD happened in 2019" factoid, which came with the announcement of C&C3."
The address is here: web.archive.org/web/20130101062855/www.cncnz.com/features/roundtable/2012/35/
In addition, Westwood is likely to make many changes to the date during the production process, they claimed in 1998 that TS occurred 20 years after TD, so TD is in 2010.
web.archive.org/web/20011006191257/westwood.ea.com/html/backstage/press/1998/pr_080398.html
The question is actually still up in the air.
Cheers for these sources!
@@NoStringsPrd I recently got some other information, Some of GameSpot writings can indicate that RA2 occurred 20 years after RA1(RA2 Collector's Edition seems to prove the point), and considering that RA2 was in 1972, RA1 occurred around 1952, although this may not be helpful for Tib Universe. In addition, the start time of YR is stated as two months after the end of RA2, so it occurred around September 1972.
www.gamespot.com/articles/new-red-alert-2-details/1100-2609466/
www.gamespot.com/articles/command-and-conquer-yuris-revenge-preview/1100-2707579/
ruclips.net/video/OW3bcIJ4igg/видео.html
I hope this helped you.
@@NoStringsPrd Aaron Kaufman has proven 2028 to be a mistake, Obviously they redefined it in KW as 2031.
forums.cncnz.com/topic/8366-mike-verdu-addresses-cc-3-fiction-inconsistencies/
TW Designer Diary 5 seems to have redefined TW1 as 1997
www.gamespot.com/articles/command-and-conquer-3-tiberium-wars-designer-diary-5-introducing-the-scrin/1100-6165297/
In the Gamasutra 2000 article, Rade Stojsavljevic said:"To solve this problem, we set the story 30 years after the end of the original"
gamasutra.com/view/feature/131595/postmortem_westwood_studios_.php?page=2
In 1999, Louis Castle said "If the player is successful in freeing the scientists and destroying Nod's research they will set back Nod's plans for 30 years." Which seems to suggest that Renegade took place in 2000 rather than 2020.
web.archive.org/web/20020222010241/pc.ign.com/articles/072/072271p1.html
Cypher previously explained that Renegade in 2020 was a mistake:"Not to mention the little fact that it was Westwood Studios who comissioned a screen writer that worked with them on Renegade, if memory serves, to create their In-House C&C Bible - a bible that states that Renegade happened in 2020... and not during TD."
And then Adam Isgreen mentioned this:"The bible was a marketing idea that none of us had any time to contribute to. The internal version was badly written, had no continuity and ignored by all of us that worked on the C&C story. It was out of date the moment it was first written and was never updated after. "
web.archive.org/web/20131221051338/www.petroglyphgames.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6182&start=0&p=93353
Dang, thank you so much for these sources! These are a massive help!
New Lore video? Perfect way to improve my lunch break!
bravo sir.. some mad bookwork there for those dates. ^^
Lore, lore and lore! Love the effort you put into this one!
Daaaamn, so do I get this right, you figured out that the first Tiberium War started in 2019? That's even news to me! Guess you're now officially a bigger CnC nerd than I am 😁 and that really means a lot! Anyway, keep up the good work, love your videos!
Very interesting video, I always thought the war started in the late 90s or so....but this has rather blew my mind a little. Oh, how perfectly into place the remaster fell xD
This, this is amazing. Thanks, for yet another great lore explanation!
Cheers, glad you enjoyed it mate!
each vid after the next never declines in quality. truly great work put into each. even this vid greatly helps on a C&C Project in the works....
i may need to revise over and edit some notes if this is all true :D
I cannot accept that the first war took place in 2020. TIberian Dawn and Tiberian Sun are way too different for there to be only a 10 year gap between the two. I guess I'll have to head canon that the first war took place in the later '90s.
Great video as always.
I mean, as other commenters have mentioned, Biplanes and Jet fighters were 10 years apart irl. War expedites technological advancements like nothing else. We know GDI was working on Wolverines immediately after the first war, its not too big of a stretch to get from there to Titans and Mammoth Mk. II. Nod already had lasers, they just made them more efficient and smaller. Cabal and Cyborgs are a bit harder to explain, but he had the deus ex machina box of the tacitus so we can hand wave that away if we want to.
@@LightningSaix I've checked the wikipedia, "In 1910 the Romanian inventor Henri Coandă filed a patent on a jet propulsion system which used piston-engine exhaust gases to add heat to an otherwise pure air stream compressed by rotating fan blades in a duct."
Within 7 years jet aircraft was born, but never flew.
Thats crazy for 26 years i always assumed cnc 1 was set in 1995
This research actually allows us to figure out most of the CNC timeline, thank you so much!
Man, I love your C&C videos. They are so well and professional done. Thanks.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed them mate!
I always thought TW1 started around 2000. 2020 is such a strange date for it, because tech seems to have advanced so far by 2030. The equipment of the GDI in the cutscenes matches that of US forces around the same time.
Does technology have to develop at the same speed as in our world, though? I mean, if Hitler never existed and it became a big cold war, there likely wouldn't have been the same technological development of weapons, at the same speed.
Very interesting detective work, Stefan!
I am surprised the date is 2020, I think "everyone", like you, assumed it was about 15-20 years earlier than the stated date. I assume the date that is refereed to in C&C3 is the "fake news" propaganda that Nod spread with the help of Greg Burdette. Perhaps? Probably. Roughly matches the dates. As there was no "great plan" from the get go, and considering the rough story of C&C, we should be impressed that the dates even remotely match up.
Still, I find it a bit weird. I always assumed Tiberian Dawn was kind of 1998-2000-ish while Tiberian Sun would be late 2020s. Apparently not?! Huh!
Also, thanks for acknowledging the Allied Nations-to-GDI reference from the (otherwise silly) ant missions from RA. :D
It probably was Bialystok Kilian was referring to, I wouldn't be surprised.
Haha, yeah, had to include a bit from the Ants! Even if 'It Came From Red Alert!' is non-canon, the portrayal of a GDI-esque Allied force as seen in it most probably existed in the canon timeline anyway
@@NoStringsPrd Indeed, I take it as an obvious reference and what-if even if the scenario itself is not canon. Just like the units provided, like the mammoth and medium tanks are canon, present in a non-canon situation
You think the 2019-reference by Kilian is a lucky chance, or did they actually put a bit of effort into it?
Best guess with why they mentioned 2019 throughout C&C3 material is probably because of the Renegade manual's claim. They must have had it written down somewhere that that's the year since Ren was the latest game, and the writers must have gone with that. Maybe they actively went back through the games, I'm to understand there were a fair few C&C fans and some ex-Westwood (maybe just Westwood Pacific for the most part?) employees at EALA, so maybe someone dug it up from there
@@NoStringsPrd Here is hoping!
Been waiting so long for you to release this. Since good content/narration
fantastic video! i would never have thought something like renegade to be the key to the timeline, but it definitely makes much more sense than the late 90's/early 2000's.
Lore fans: Wait, it's all renegade?
Westwood: Always has been.
Totem Arts: Allow us to introduce ourselves, as well as present RenegadeX Firestorm.
I'm not sure of its canonicity, but I recall reading on the CnC wiki that both the Nod Campaign and the GDI one are canon (with the Nod one, obviously, coming first). So perhaps in 2019 the ion canon was hacked (explaining Qatar's statement about revealing the truth about GDI) and then the war started in earnest after this.
Either way, mind *blown*
I don't think there were two wars. My understanding of the wiki's position is something that I agree with; the GDI campaign is canon. The Nod campaign also canon but only up to an extent; the events can be considered canon right up until the point at which it contradicts the GDI campaign. For instance in Tib Sun, the GDI campaign talks about the alien ship. The Nod campaign is non-canon, but it mentions how said ship is of alien design by Nod-built. So since this doesn't contradict the GDI campaign and instead gives extra detail, we can consider that canon. The Philadelphia being blwon up in the Nod campaign, not so much.
@@NoStringsPrd To be fair, the Philadelphia only blows as Nod' TS campaign ends, at which point GDI is defeated and defunct; naturally this'll contradict the GDI campaign. Well, unless you pull a Twisted Insurrection and help GDI rise again from its own ashes...
The other time the station blows is during the Nod and proper start of GDI campaign in TW, so that part is cannon.
Hehe, cannon...
There is one little problem with this theory - if the ion cannon was indeed hacked and used to destroy a major world landmark... why isn't this mentioned anywhere? It's a huge event, and it just gets forgotten? Besides, the Nod ending suggests GDI is facing the possibility of being disbanded for good.
Therefore, I don't think the Nod ending of Tiberian Dawn can be canonical in any way.
@@AlexeiVoronin It could be the reason they didn't specify which monument was destroyed to make any of the four possibilities canon, depending on the players' own choices.
But then "Nod hacked our Ion Cannon and destroyed an important/famous landmark and we got screwed in 1995/2019/2020" would have still been mentioned somewhere...
2020, such a lovely year it is, eh?
He that controls the past, commands the future.
He that commands the future, conquers the past.
Uhhhhhhh, so FR Yugoslavia managed to exist up to 2020? Damn
I really appreciate all the time you've put into researching every tiny facet of CnC lore. You're truely inspirational, and I love watching the outcomes of this research, please keep it up!!
That's really kind of you to say, glad you enjoyed it!
This year March I've bought a copy of renegade at a thrift shop for 50ct, just as a collector's item. I was supprised that the manual was referring to the same month and Year as when I have bought that copy.
>C&C Remastered launched the very year Tib War 1 occured
Damn. Jim Vasella played us
Your vidoes are amazing! So detailed and in depth. Also i enjoy the topics, the c&c universe is so mysterious and awesome. Thank you for looking into it 👏
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it!
Very much 👍 i hope you upload much more 👏
Bro Ive not even watched the video yet but I just wanna say: The thumbnail absolutely rocks.
Cheers, shoutout to the Tib Dawn boxart!
Agreed, thumbnail rocks!
Mind Blown..
what can i say, this is why i love your C&C documentary videos, well researched, well narrated, and well put together! you are the best!
I think this was a clear sign of divergent intention in canon.
Tiberian Sun happen in 2030. The Tiberian Sun manual states that Kane had disappeared for decades and the Philadelphia had also been there for decades. That would imply a more than 20 years gap between the First and Second Tiberium War.
An article by Rade Stojsavljevic in 2000 said that Tiberian Sun was set 30 years after the end of the first game.
Then C&C Renegade put its event at 12 March 2020 with remark that Nod entered into the 21st century.
The ending of C&C 1 put the length of the conflict at more than 3 years
The GDI ion cannon was already there in Renegade meaning it was nearing the end of the First Tiberium War.
So that would put the First Tiberium at possibly 2017-2020.
I think that's the best precise number that could be said for the First Tiberium War.
The statement of exposing GDI in 2019 was very vague, as well as the 28 years of fighting Nod, which could mean that Granger only entered service in war against Nod in 2019, not that the war started in 2019. Same with the remark of Kane travelling between 1995 to 2019.
C&C Bible was said by someone in Westwood to be non-canon even when it was written. It was mostly not canon to Tiberian Sun much less any game after it.
All of this talk about tiberium's proliferation across the globe. But no one talks about how we managed to exhaust the world's supply of ore. Or did ore just become worthless in the face of tiberium's limitless possibilities?
9:45 Oh, yeah, GDI mechs. Wouldn't it be a shame if they were made redundant 20 years in the future..because tiberium is too hard to walk on, I guess? But then Nod and the Scrin get their own mechs. You're tearing me apart, C&C3.
C&C3...is dubiously canon at best. I personally exclude it from what i consider canon, and generally dislike the game itself, but i know a lot of people really care for it. Different team, not working from the same story bible of the previous games, and they were intending to "re-invent" C&C with new gameplay styles and the like. Not a stretch to assume they ignored the original lore to write their own story as well. Though not as obviously flawed as C&C4 was/is.
Tiberium literally extracts ore from the ground and pushes it up to the surface. That's why it's such a precious resource in the lore: all the materials (precious metals, rare earth minerals, etc.) which previously took so much effort to extract could be so easily gathered. That was the lore explanation for the resource gathering mechanic, which had its roots in Dune II in which you harvested Spice. The resource didn't become 'ore' until Red Alert, in which case the base resource was once again just relabeled. In terms of gameplay mechanics there really isn't a difference. In terms of lore: you'd have to be a sucker to stick to old extraction methods in the face of a paradigm-shift like Tiberium.
Why did I read that last bit in Tommy Wiesau's voice?
@@Girder3 Whoa, that's brilliant. In the old Red Alert days, you had to dig ore out from deep in the earth..but tiberium brings all that goodness to the surface.
@Nod Lucario Anyway, how's your sex life?
Thanks again for a great vid!
Omg that throw-away line at the end.
Amazing video!
Nicely done
As always, a wonderfully documented vid. Congrats for your work!
Renegade was the trigger then... no wonder, the game was amazing! Another wonderful video Stefan! Keep up the good work!
I wish the Nod vehicles kept their TD designs though
@@hazelnotxyz I don’t know... I love a lot of the designs from Tiberium Dawn, but a lot of the designs were also borrowed from real life, and so as tiberium sun and tiberium wars roll by you can see the designs take on the features of the factions more and more. The light tank turns into the tick tank, then the scorpion, the medium tank used by both sides, into the predator from the third game, the Humvee from the first game into the ubiquitous amphibious apc and then into the APC of the third game. Each evolved into a unique design, moving away from the designs dictated by the member states and available units to designs purpose built to function in the new wartime paradigm.
I hope that makes sense, that’s just the way I see it. And it’s 100% not to say I don’t love the first games style. It was badass and fit the game perfectly
@@kerrican5283 Ehh, idk, the war took 3 years and the Renegade designs were used smack dab in the middle of the thing and then never seen again, and they feel a bit too cartoony for my taste. Nod in general was made too cartoon villain-y in that game tbh. Plus it's not like Nod has actual member states, they're just a terrorist organization at this point in time, they could've hung onto those Bradleys a bit longer 😅
@@hazelnotxyz Yeah I suppose you’re right... although I would classify the renegade designs as the beginning of the pre tiberium era being left behind. If you think about it you would notice that at the beginning of the war in 2019 GDI may have had their designs begging built and put into service, but the majority of their arsenal would have been made up of vehicles from their member states such as Bradley’s a Abrams and whatever the German tanks are called. This also would go for nod, as in the first game they are a entity moving in and exerting control over states to at have sided with them, which I suppose is kind of member states, and kind of not.
I guess what I’m saying is that it might make some sense for that discrepancy to be there logically speaking
@@hazelnotxyz sorry for the slow replies, I’m at work 😂😭
"Fuck the MSM"
-Tib Wars
"Fuck the MSM"
-2015 to now
Damn Westwood must either be visionaries or time wizards. How did they do it
In love with these C&C lore videos. They make me so excited to see them pop up! Or just any new vids from you lol
Someone needs to tell this to Jethild b/c he keeps saying that Tib Dawn was set in '95.
Interesting, though Jethild may use a different standard by which he assesses sources. I'd love to chat with him on this, he has my Discord if he wants to add me :)
7:55 Hey, I see Kuantan, Malaysia! So Malaysia in NOD territory?
Seriously....under Nod....Welp knowing my own country can't say I don't disagree. (with all the covid stuff)
I love how you do this not many people talk about C&C lore beautiful work as always.
Cheers, glad you enjoy the lore!
Big fan of your work regarding Mendicant Bias btw
@@NoStringsPrd Np my good man i hope you continue the C&C. I love how cheesey and crazy it all is and it is one of my childhood games.
This channel is so amazing.
I remember when I was a kid, I read the manuals and assumed that tib dawn was set around 1995, renegade was set in 2020 and tiberian sun was set in 2030, but I couldn't figure out if renegade was part of the tiberium war or a separate conflict because the years seemed wrong. Tib dawn being set around 2019 solves this problem.
Nice research!
Thank you.
God I fucking hate having "premieres" in my feed.
thank you for sharing this, one of the only youtubers that still remembers this gem of a franchise
My mind can't handle this
HOLY SHIT
Fantastic work as always!
Great video as always. Keep up the good work! and thank you :)
How could 2020 get any worse
August:
First tiberium war
I would like to hear what the benefits of tiberium are from my local Nod temple before I decide myself
@@raygiovanno8657 "fascist"
/s
Another C&C game, please. In the spirit of Westwood.
Tiberium Incursion
Lock the title
Properly add the Forgotten faction
I honestly did not know is that the timeline was this. I always thought that the original command of conqueror took place in 95
C&C 1995: Bosnian War
C&C Generals: War on Terror
2019 might have been when Nod tried to frame GDI for the Byalistok Incident.
After watching the rest of the video, I don’t take it back since Byalistok seemed to happen pretty early in the conflict but yeah your timeline makes sense.
God I freaking love your channel and videos man.
You do the franchise absolute Justice.
@no strings prd
Is there a connection between the philidelphia experiment document and the name of the philidelphia station? Why name the headquarters after philidelphia?
Hey! I think it's most likely coincidental. The TS story bible also describes McNeil (then-named Commander Eric Adams) as "All-American" so IMO if this was the direction they were aiming for GDI then the Philadelphia is probably just something that sounded appropriately American
1984. It was 1984.
I so love your videos! They’ve helped me fall in love with the series all over again, and just in time for me to buy the remastered version too.
Okay. I didn't expect something absolutely new to me. And THAT important. Allways believed, the war was in the 90's .. till today o_O
Assuming it's true, then tiberium would be relatively harmless for 25 years, and then start to evolve itself (and everything it touches) like crazy. Furthermore, Nod would require just 10 years to not only rise up from it's previous defeat (OK, they have a lot of T to fund their rebuild effort), but also get futuristic techs (UFO-like planes, laser weaponry, improved stealth etc.). I'm sceptical, though.
The lasers are easy to explain, they had them since the beginning. Obelisks of Light are large laser weapons. They simply made that tech more efficient and smaller. Stealth is similarly easy to explain, just improving existing tech (we went from Biplanes to Jets in about 10 years IRL so....). The onyl hard parts of Nod's tech to explain are Banshees and Cyborgs. But we can blame those on access to the crashed alien ship and tacitus.
@@LightningSaix I'm not sure. It would rather resemble going from ENIAC to modern PC. Lasers and stealth are more advanced than planes that at least are based on existing, easy to copy features (fuel, wings, aerodynamics). Still, 20-30 years is more realistic than mere decade.
Wait are you telling me right now, that the first tiberium war, aka the first CnC game, happened in 2019!??! AND WE GET THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT SAME YEAR THAT CNC REMASTERED IS A THING!??!
Makes you wonder what these people know that we don't. xD
Hi Strings. Amazing content, what piece of music is used at 7:41 when renegade is mentioned? Or if anyone else knows please let me know
sounds like Mechanical Man's Revenge from Renegade
@@NoStringsPrd thank you. Keep up the amazing work you do
GDI did something in 2019? Covid 19?
That make no sense.
this is not all of the story i think. because in red alert wbe see the beginning of NOD brotherhood and GDI global Defense. And this was in 1946 . but in that games there are two timelines i think and a misterym. If you win with Sowjets the brotherhood is aviable. But there is an Aftermath with allied. If you win that with alied you are in the timeline Of RedAlert 2 with yuri and a big sowjet union So the big winner is yuri that controls then the brotherhood and alied. If you win allied, there is an aftermath with sowjet and the big winner is NOD.. so you are in the tiberium timeline.
While RA1 probably took place roughly around the 40's or possible early 50's we don't know that it definitely took place in 1946 since the only time that date appears is for events in another universe, when Einstein is at Trinity site. RA1's Allied campaign does mention GDi, but all it says is that the UN was voting on a motion to consider starting a Global Denfense Agency, it wasn't actually the founding of GDI. The Brotherhood on the other hand is several thousand years old. I do agree with the Allies/Soviet split timelines, but I don't think there's any evidence of the Brotherhood existing in the RA timeline from RA2 onwards, and the one snippet of Joe Kucan in the Allied campaign is debatable and excusable, something we can consider retconned by RA2.
@@NoStringsPrd there is an gdi at allies campain in the Athen Mission. In Mission 4 There is a news anchor are saying . The sowjets
says the terror act of stalin and the
United Nations founded a new union called a G lobal D efends Agency but in the sentence before it called a uneque military I nitiative . Here we know that the GDI (Global Defends Initiative) is groundet at the alternative second world war 1946 . So in Sowjets Winning you see Kane and he says secret Brotherhood called NOD.. He is the future. ... also exist the brothehood longer as we know. and then yuri . Yuri use some technologys ins futures they are near the nod technology. flying ufos , green reactors? maybe tiberium reactor? and has very crinch employees . so this can be only done if sowjets win.. and if allies win so gdi and nod are future because sowjets are
weakened. this is the only way to explain the aftermath missions and the multiple universe of red alert 2 and tiberium wars. so if allies is strong sowjets are weakened but nod is strong. so aftermath missions are nod missions. If sowjets is strong nod is weakend and yuri is strong and you see allied missions with General Carvil an US Military in Red Alert 2. so America allied is strong. . And you see chrono tanks and so on. In red alert 2 of setup you can here that the sowjet occupied the complete continent... and romanov and co is comeing- . because you don't see the complete story of sowjets.. because the sowjet winning is the allied winning in aftermath. the allied winnig is the winning of NOD in aftermath..
so the notice of kane is : " He who controls the past , commands the future. He who commands the future conquers the past. -- This mean . the ending of the game isn't the trueth ending . because that who wins, haven't win the future. The other wins it. So if sowjets win they loose in this universe. Yuri is now the future and allies commands
Incredible
mind blown