I really hope one day the franchise revives wholesale. The hanging plot threads and left over questions here make my brain tingle. Especially for a game essentially about armies laying into each other over resources.
i dont have a ton of confidence in EA's ability to handle a new C&C title, but i guess i have some slightly revitalized confidence in their ability to handle the C&C franchise _in general_ due to how incredible Remastered was.
@@rvh1999 It is a 1 to 1 remaster, not a remake. Of course all the old issues are still there. Now if they were to to a complete remake, then they can fix all that, I would think.
@@DoomStarRequiem 2 year old reply aside- age only factors as much as if Joe wants to do it or not. Plenty of older actors still smashing it, JK Simmons is 68, Takaya Kuroda is 58 (same age as Joe)- Peter “Optimus Prime” Cullen is 82. Plenty of ways around old age.
It also shows that the Scrin and Ascended have a common ancestor as their dependent on Tiberium also shows that it has to be infused in a controlled environment, inplying that they didn't originally evolve with the stuff. I have some theories: Theory 1: The common ancestor of the Scrin and Ascended discovered the element and a religious cult eventually got their hands on the data. The element was most likely contained as they brought it back to their home world, but the fanatical cult eventually took it and started spreading it around their planet, and some of them escaped to space, while the rest stayed to continue using the stuff, eventually becoming dependent on the radiation it emits. Theory 2: The element was introduced to their planet by some natural disaster (meteorite impact) and eventually lead to the same outcome as theory 1. Theory 3: Ichor was never a natural element but made by a fanatical cult to bring potential members to them, leading to the same outcome as theory 1, but the knowledge of its creation was eventually forgotten.
According to former C&C designer Adam Isgreen, however, Tiberian Dawn in fact follows on the conclusion of Red Alert's Allies campaign, while Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge take place in a second parallel universe, created by a new attempt to alter history in "Incursion", the working title of Westwood Studios' cancelled version of Command & Conquer 3. Isgreen also implied that Nikola Tesla may have been responsible for inadvertently having attracted the attention of the Scrin through his experiments, and thus for the arrival of Tiberium on Earth. An alternate way of connecting the two universes was through one of the drafts of the Renegade 2 storyline, but the two games were cancelled in 2003.
@@nodcommanderthe5823 see that, this how to made great plot of the story take that C&C4 EA timeline this why Westwood always win. both me and XYCH are right
I just can't buy RA1 being connected to Tiberian Dawn. Tiberian Dawn takes place in our current timeline circa 1995. If mean mustache man was killed in 1924 and the Soviet Union occupied West Europe for 40 years following an alternate World War 2, that world would look completely different to our own, not the very familiar one we see in TD.
@@ausaskar Good point but even then, at the end of the RA1 Soviet campaign Nadia notes that the Soviets will collapse in the 1990s. Whether this is just an note to the actual Soviet collapse or was apart of Kane's plan to move the Soviets into collapse (as he possibly believed that a major global event needed to happen by then) is anyone's guess.
I honestly hope that if we do get another new entry into either the RA or Tib universes it is a game that connects the two universes together. Whether it starts after RA1 (1952) which you would have 45 years to play with or after YR (1973) with 24 years to play with depends on one's preference. I personally wouldn't started it after RA3 because I liked the whole Yuri was a agent of Kane idea that was thrown around in "Incursion"
Finally someone got it, I noticed long ago that in the Scrin campaign that there is a hidden line of dialogue where the Supervisor said "Species must be Scrin" when talking about humans, implying that their whole invasion was about finding out more about their enemy, the actual Scrin.
So maybe Scrin is not the name of a species or group, but the moniker for a concept. Something like antichrist, with the meaning of a powerful enemy that will (and can) oppose tiberium. The transformed Scrin call the other side this way because they did not embrace the tiberium but used it to ascend. And the ascended ones call them that because they did not overcome the mutation and dependency of the tiberium but surrendered themselves to it.
The idea I had was that Kane was exiled to Earth from another planet, and that Earth is "The Land of Nod". Which still doesn't preclude him originally being from Earth.
Nah, there's an actual Land of Nod right here on Earth. Go find older maps of the area around ancient Sumeria, east to the mountains from which the Euprhate and Tigris spring; you'll find a name for the place, Noqdi. With the i in most languages on Earth denoting a possessive form, it really becomes The Land of Noqd, or as a different language drift calls it, Nod. The Land of the Nomads is very much an actual place on Earth.
I find it amazing that that there are still people who propagate and love the lore of a game that hasn’t had a release in almost a decade (let’s ignore everything cc4 and beyond plz). The fact that people still conjecture about the lore to this day should be reason enough for a team to be allowed to make a proper sequel to the franchise.
Perhaps the Scrin were manufactured by the Ascended for the purpose of Tiberium exploitation, I mean they have no names only titles (Overlord, Advisor, Foreman etc) and they have no agency beyond the cultivation and harvesting of what they call Ichor but we know as the blood of gods.
I think the Scrin are like the Hierarchy in Universe at War, and Kane is the last survivor of the the Masari equivalent whose entire race's existence has been erased from the Scrin history to prevent the lower ranks from finding out that they wiped out their creators/saviours.
That may explain why the Scrin want Earth and Kane wiped out after the retreat through the Threshold, like Kane they don't like people digging in places best left undisturbed.
Another possibility is that they are both Scrin, and calling their enemy Scrin just means that they aren't united as a race. So there's mutated Scrin (the ones in C&C3) and the ascended Scrin.
A most intriguing perspective on the Ascended, the Tacitus and Kane. I enjoy these videos you and Jethild put out about the Tib saga. I can also appreciate the inspiration of the background music alluding to Tiberian Sun's soundtrack; Gloom.
One of my favorite RUclips channels. Always an enthralling video, a well written script, perfect pacing, etc. And, it's about my favorite games. Keep it up!
... Could it be that Kane was on the Scrin Homeworld, before they became Tib scrin? Could it be that he wanders from Planet to Planet trying to unlock the secret of Tiberium Mutation dooming entire Planets and civilizations in the process? It's a shame that C&C 4 was never made. Kane isn't getting younger... *sigh* I hate corporates.
Kane is the very same Kane from the vibe. Son of Adam and Eve, killed his own brother and cursed by God to forever wonder to earth and never die or know peace. That's why Kane always preaches about his ascension
What is really interesting is Kane's view of God When McNeil confronts Kane saying he cant play God, Kane agrees but says that he's a close second and in TibDawn Seth says the line; "From God, to Kane to Seth" implying that while Kane sees himself as the Messiah, he doesnt consider himself a god and probably acknowledges the existence of one The most confusing clashing contradiction of lore elements is the nature of Divination/Ascension as depicted in the TibSun Nod ending where Kane achieves Ascension using the World Altering Missile and without the aid of a Threshold Tower and in 3 where he is somehow is unable to replicate the Missile for the Third game and needs a Scrin Tower to achieve Ascension, like with GDI's anti-missile defenses down couldnt he just do the World Altering Missile launch again?
I'd say almost certainly not, Seth is just some guy who worked for Nod and got a bit too big for his boots, might have even taken the name Seth by choice
Wonderful vid as always, Stefan! I've always treated Kane's origin as Cain from the bible, and I was pretty much very influenced by the last Renegade mission where there's his alleged brother Abel's tomb directly under the nuke silo. Given that Cain was exiled and cursed to wander the earth forever, I've assumed (without quoting C&C4) he found a way to "hack" God's curse. Maybe to him, if there are aliens, there's possible habitable planets out there, and if he can leave earth, he can't be curse to wander the earth if he's no longer on earth! I wish the devs would have leaned more into the direction of relating to historical mythos as opposed to him being from the future or an alien... That's so cliche and so many stories have done that
even if this one didn't have the fancy visuals, i still love your Lore videos! it's kinda eerie to draw parallels of the scrin to the ascended as the forgotten is to the humans.. it would open up so many possibilities..
If the data given on what was said about the Scrin and “Ascended” are to be taken at face value then is it possible that they’re actually the result of the “Nod Tib sun ending”. As in what Nod and Kane failed to do in Tib sun during the canon timeline, has actually happened before with the Scrin? I ask this since the translated message in GDI In Ops seems to point to this speculation which means that humanity may have prevented the same fate. As for Tiberium itself, I personally believe that Dr. Mobius may have been correct in saying that Tiberium is a new sentient life. Perhaps it came from its own planet and spread on its own. Given the psionic powers of the Forgotten, it maybe possible that Tiberium maybe passively controlling other species and individuals to facilitate its continued spread, especially on the Scrin. Frankly a topic going over the potential sentience of Tiberium is both interesting and frightening given what we’ve seen of the crystal so far.
I can actually see this being a thing in all honesty that would give further explanation as to why the Scrin seeded the world. Not because they needed to do so to survive but because the crystal was compelling them to do so. And more then likely to many other words as well.
@@xianderthest8014 alternatively given the parasitic nature of the crystal themselves to terraform anything they come into contact with, there is the possibility that the crystals may force a dependency from them to keep their control to the point of needing it to live despite the mutations as we see with the Scrin. Alternatively this may not be the case due to the mutation and it’s simply their technology that needs Tiberium to work. I bring up the latter point as the Forgotten don’t seem to be as driven to spread Tiberium during Tiberium Sun, especially as they ally with GDI in the combatting of the spread despite being mutated by it. Nod is the opposite where they seek the total spread of the crystal with religious fervent to it. If it’s true that the Crystal is using psionic powers to influence others to spread it, then there are two possibilities. Either mutated Tiberium sentient life will seek to spread it further and further or mutated Tiberium sentient life have a resistance to the control of the crystal. The strange part is that two factions support either possibility with Reaper-17 supporting the former while the Forgotten support the latter.
The Tiberium FPS seemed to be heading in the direction of "Kane is from the future, the Scrin are future humanity", which explained why Kane could always come back from the dead (he's from the future, and he fails to change it every time, leading to his death in the past, the Forgotten becoming the Scrin, Humanity going extinct and sending Kane and the Tacitus back in time, etc.). Kane's only way to break the cycle, would be to escape Earth in the past and/or drastically alter the timeline. This also explains why the words "Ascended" and "Brother" were used in that transmission, and why Nod also strangely uses those same terms - Nod and The Forgotten are what become the Scrin/Ascended in the future. At least that's my take on what they were going to do with the story, based on the story bible for Tiberium. Most of this is unverifiable theory, but it checks out with what was written in the Tiberium story bible. There was also an image from Richard Taylor III's, the C&C3 cinematic director's website, that showed the Scrin but with a human face - implying that the Scrin face (Supervisor) we see in C&C3 has some image-altering (much like what CABAL did to Kane's face in TS to hide the damage to his face) done to it, or that the Supervisor is an even more mutated form of the Scrin (Perhaps that Human face was an Ascended?), or again it had a helmet on. So it would seem like at one point, the Scrin, Kane and the Tacitus, were all from Humanity's future, and the Scrin were going to be future, mutated Humans.
@@Alex06CoSonic This is honestly the first time I've heard of a Story Bible for C&C along with the first time I'm hearing of this information overall. I will admit that I know absolutely nothing about the cancelled Tiberium FPS aside from it being directly after C&C3 on the timeline but much of this information seems...Strange. I don't doubt that a story bible doesn't exist but for the most part, Westwood seemed to only start developing the story more following Red Alert 1 into Tiberium Sun. If the Bible was created during this time, then it's safe to say that the information provided likely was just concept ideas and cancelled material since C&C Insurrection was cut with Tiberium Wars using the general ideas from Insurrection's development but changing a lot. In saying that also, the information provided seems quite weird since it's never implied that the Scrin are humans as they don't seem to have much knowledge of Earth nor even Kane. If they were from the Future as humans, they would surely remember important things like GDI, Nod, the events of the different Tiberium Wars, and especially Kane. Sure the Overseer seems to mention that Kane was already in the databanks, or well...One like him already since he refers to him as a creature but they clearly no nothing about him. I should also mention that while the Tiberium universe is directly connected to the Red Alert universe, Time Travel is entirely absent in the Tiberium verse. Not because it doesn't exist but likely because the creators don't want the Tiberium verse to infringe too much on the Red Alert universe outside of the connections that lead to the Tiberium Timeline (Though I suppose it's also important to remember that Red Alert hasn't taken place far enough into the timeline for Tiberium to even show up to begin with...) Honestly just thinking over the entire topic, C&C is far more complex then originally made out to be.
@@Alex06CoSonic I totally agree with you buddy and actually your view reflects one oldie but good game called Battlezone II: Combat Commander where basically the "alien" faction (called the Scions, kinda similar to Scrin) were future mutated/evolved humans. What I loved about that old game was how it seamlessly combined FPS with RTS... by being commander and going into the commander hub bunker, then the game becomes an RTS... however you can snap out of the bunker and enter into one of your super powered mechs. I kinda like that game design idea for something like Warhammer 40K... it'll be fun to play as RTS commander for a bit, create yourself a Titan, and then hop into it, and go on a final destructive spree to destroy the opponent's base, while still giving out some commands aka Bannerlord style. I dunno, just some ideas for a next C&C5 or Warhammer 40K game.
This would give Kane an nice, extra layer of character. Ultimately what he's doing is for selfish reasons I suspect, but after 4 millennia, seeing everything and everyone you've ever known crumble to dust, can you blame the man?
If the mutations of the Forgotten and the Scrin made them incompatible with Ascension due to their corruption by tiberium, what does that make of Kane's attempts to see the planet altered by it and the process of "Divination"? Was he simply using Tiberium as a means to an end, sacrificing humanity and Earth to achieve his this mythical ascension, or is the fusion of machine, flesh, and tiberium in a directed mutation (or "evolution") truly a step along the way for humanity to achieve this goal, and to save humanity from what he may have seen as an impending doom from his early contact with "the Ascended"?
Probably ascension = directed mutation instead of randomized mutation like what happened to the Forgotten. The world altering missile in Tib: Sun was designed to change Earth from a carbon based planet to a tiberium based. Changing life on it too. Kane does say that through the Tacitus he found a way to achieve Humans next stage in their evolution. As for Kanes and Nods view of the Forgotten. It probably stems from them being unworthy of Tiberiums "gifts". They were not followers of Nod, they were random people who happened to survive and evolved to depend on Tiberium. To Kane, only those who are amongst the truly faithful are worthy of such gifts.
Another thing to mention, is mutation is a very hectic form of biological adaption. There are two variants: 1. Directed Mutation - Hyper-accelerated Evolution. Basically, evolution that is hastily evolving and adapting but at a steady, stable rate. One factual example would be butterflies and other creatures that adapt and evolve at different stages. However, in theory, not every creature that "evolves" would do so at the same speed, even in that kind of "stage". Humans are still evolving even after all this time, but it's slowed to barely a crawl. That said, the entire concept isn't a bad thing, but left unchecked or should someone go wrong, it turns into Variant 2. 2. Unstable Mutation - Generic, randomized, unstable mutation. This would be the stereotypical, bizzare, unnatural and unhealthy form of "forced evolution", gone wrong. Even the redhead-witch Triss Merrigold in The Witcher 2 touched on this, that "mutations are evolution rapidly altering at a unprecedented pace. It's considered the opposite to the natural process of evolution, which takes centuries to thousands of years to develop, evolving based on rational circumstances", such as habitual adaptation. What Kane has been attempting to do, is achieve Variant 1 on a global scale, to advance humanity. In his eyes without him, humanity would still be crawling through the dirt as they were when he first arrived, and he's probably right. He is far wiser and more intelligent than any average human. Even highly-skilled scientists amuse him to some extent.
Keep in mind how Machiavellian Kane is. He manipulated countless entities throughout the games in order to advance his plot. He destroyed the Philadelphia not to defeat GDI, but to weaken and goad them into using the ion cannon on Temple Prime, killing millions of Nod adherents and attracting the Scrin. It seems any loss is acceptable if it means Kane himself can achieve ascension. Everything is disposable for the sake of Kane's ascension.
What if...what if Kane was right all along? What if Kane needed to ascend us humanity achieving divination in order to fight off alien invaders? That's what I'm going with. One Vision, One Purpose!!
"Message from the Scrin we are coming" This quote comes from TW's third faction propaganda picture. We used to think that this meant that the invading aliens were Scrin, But in conjunction with TW's story, it might mean that the invading aliens think of us as Scrin.
Another awesome video. Definitely a plausible idea, and one i never considered. The Scrin and Ascended being the same race, but divergent due to Tiberium makes a lot of sense. I also seem to remember plans for a Scrin rebel faction for Westeood's C&C3. Of course none of those original ideas are Canon, but perhaps some idea survived into the Ascended?
So Tiberium is basically like the Markers from Dead Space. They both arrive in meteors and influence the life on the planet, but also cause the dominant lifeform to create a Zealous religion that is not limited to self mutilation or human sacrifices. Both can also be used for raw material, but are the key for end of days in the end. Also, in Dead Space there existed an Alien race that have been dubbed the Tau Volantians. We don’t know much about them other than that they were likely a type of aquatic creatures who found the Markers just like humanity and began to replicate them, and just like any Markers eventually they began to transform into Necromorphs, but at the last minute these aliens were able to activate a machine that would freeze the planet and the brother moon, but the Markers wouldn't give up and try reacht out to anyone to turn off the machine. They even further manipulated people into thinking it would be like a self destruct for the markers if it was turned off. We also don't know if there was ever any infighting betweens these aliens or any religion formed around the markers such as between Unitoligy and EarthGov. Interesting food for thought.
The Tiberium universe has the perfect mix of known stated facts and loose unanswered questions and story threads for fans to theorise over in my opinion, with an Tiberium itself serving as a fascinating plot device. Is it alive? Is it a terraforming agent? It certainly poses a threat to life on Earth as we know it which in my opinion leads to a great deal of existential horror, humanity slowly losing its place on the only world we have (some real life implications there too). The Scrin being such an enigma only adds to this and these ideas you present in this video brings some seriously fascinating and disturbing implications. I really can't overstate how much I love this universe.
Nice video, love the explanations of the lore and the interpretations. Also you got one of the best voices for this kind of stuff together with Stuart Brown(AHOY). Clear, soothing and with enough tonation to keep it interesting. Don't ever stop :P
if we have another Tiberium game(hope the remake gave EA the confidence), a plotline of the Forgotten slowly becoming more like the Scrin, and the humanity and forgotten can no longer live side by side due to tiberium would be really cool.
If you're correct, what we call Scrin might actually be more like a combination of Nod and the Forgotten. The reason I say this is because of the religious implications of Scrin lore, especially Reaper 17. If so, then would the Ascended be the alien equivalence of GDI? If so, then what would GDI look like in thousands of years? The digitization of minds has often been called ascension in other fictions. That's one option anyway.
I can't believe I never came across the Intel Entry mentioning The Ascended. then again, I always miss at least one. Great video, and I agree its best to propose ideas and ask questions than it is to say; "my Game Theory is the correct one!". You're theories on Kane are pretty good, and draw from more of the established lore than mine, but if we are putting theories out there, how about this one: What if Kane's end-goal is not to end his Immortality or seek Revenge? What if Kane encountered these Ascended, creatures so far beyond what we know describing one would be impossible. And Kane, faced with this Cosmic Horror, went insane. He saw mankind as a colony of ants, who's anthill was in the middle of a busy road. If mankind had any hope of surviving, it needed to evolve, to ascend, to become the equal to these beings before one of them, through accident or design, wiped out mankind. Morality, Ethics...none of that ever entered the equation. he *had* to enlighten mankind, to show them what needed to be done. This would be why he created the Brotherhood of Nod. This is why he considers Tiberium, and directed Tiberium mutation so important. This is only a theory of course, and like I said, yours pulled more from the lore of Command and Conquer. but there's something about this idea I find so appealing. Perhaps because I enjoy villains that truly believe themselves to be a hero, even if they seem obviously evil to us. I certainly think it fits with the character we've seen in the games thus far. relentlessly driven, but not completely emotionless. And Kane has never been seen ordering the use of his WMDs on (purely) civilian targets, despite having them in all 3 Tiberium Wars.
"He saw mankind as a colony of ants, who's anthill was in the middle of a busy road. If mankind had any hope of surviving, it needed to evolve, to ascend, to become the equal to these beings before one of them." It almost sounds like the plot of Dark Reign: The Future of War.
But if Kane's goal was to save all of humanity, why was he not an active part of their history and instead always remained hidden? If Kane was recorded in ancient texts and observed to outlive everyone around him as well as being immortal (or at least very hard to kill), humans would worship him and he would've never had to fight the GDI.
@@DemoniteBL As far as I know, Kane having supernaturally long life was simply a rumor, and never confirmed fact until C&C 4. For obvious reasons, I prefer to pretend that does not exist. To answer your question, I would say he *did* reveal himself, and those who believed what he had to say became the Brotherhood of Nod. But the evidence of his supposed immortality was so questionable that he could not simply convince all mankind to follow him as you suggest. And finally, I submit that Kane uses secrecy to protect himself, because he *is* the bad guy here, and despite his altruistic motives, he is somewhat selfish at heart and does not want to sacrifice himself to elevate mankind, preferring to convince others to sacrifice instead. He desires understanding, to elevate mankind, but he wants to be alive to experience this himself. But this is all just my take on Kane.
Damn, I'm a Catholic, but I never knew about the "Marked of Kane" in the Bible, which actually makes sense since Tiberium also has its way to turn lands into barren wastelands. Great work!
Ultimately Kane viewed the Forgotten as an Evolutionary Dead End. The Forgotten Mutations were too Random, they may adapt sufficiently to survive Tiberium, but not to Thrive. Kane seemed to be working towards a form of Human that could Exploit the Benefits of Tiberium without becoming Stagnant from it. The Forgotten were likely seen to be as dependent upon Tiberium as the Scrin had become.
The ''Brother,Ascended,Enemy,Scrin'' line always made me think of the Brotherhood of Nod whose goal was seemingly something they call ''Ascension'' , became enemy to the rest of Humanity and would eventually leave the Earth and possibly become something similar to the Scrins.
Interesting theory. One thing I found interesting about the Scrin campaign was the Overlord’s interest in Kane. It seemed rather personal. Even to the point of risking the harvest operation and the lives of the commanders assigned to it. So, the interesting bit is that if the biblical references are to be believed with this context Kane’s story is as follows: Kane was a farmer, likely a member of the ascended, and probably farmed tiberium. He then murders his brother in a fit of jealousy to claim his more fruitful resources. This angered Overlord, who marked him and sent him to Earth to live amongst the humans who were primitive compared to the splendor he had. This makes his actions make more sense. Spread tiberium, mutate the populace , and build an army to be able to overthrow the other ascended for revenge, and use the Tower to go right to the ascended to kill them. Overlord freaks out seeing Kane again, thinking he was killed by Earths savage wildlife, and risks the operation to be sure. Kane saves a tower and guaranteed his way off the planet. Ascension is killing the ascended and taking their place.
Interesting fan theory so this would draw even more comparisons between spice melange which inspired tiberium and tiberium itself. Also the scrin could still be the scrin if their parent race was the scrin xD
For me I think that Kane needed an army for some war in heaven and that army is the brotherhood of nod all branch included and the icor hub is not his final destination but he need the nod to take what ever is behind the portal of the scrin tower . There is Soo much potential to the plot it can go far enough to breed 10 more games
Ascended theory: a bunch of Scrin claims Pineapple on Pizza is a good thing and thus dub themselves ascended Other Scrin were not happy with such a motive...
Great video! Just to flip the script a bit, but what if the Scrin view themselves as the ascended, rather than their brother race? It seems there's a bit of speculation rather than 100% confirmation on who really 'ascended' here. If the Scrin are the ascended ones, what does that imply about Kane's plans for Ascension? And what does that imply about the fate of the brother race? I really do hope we get a new game to give the series a proper ending and answers to all these questions, but I guess one can only dream lol
10:56 well, with Kane being there during the WW2 alongside Stalin, it's not too farfetched to think that he's some sort of super, but twisted, man. I wish we could have the writers for the CNC saga come back to write something like that website that explains the whole Metal Gear storyline. Also it's lovely how they chose "Kane" as is sounds exactly like "Cain".
Will we get fully noticed by the sleeping giant 'westwood'? We held the creativity of it's revival! Kane still live among us, goofier than ever. I had tons of idea to share. GDI needs a powerful and iconic representative, Kane needs more reckless agenda and aggresive arsenal, Scrin needs a lore for it's origin and tiberium needs to reveal it's creator! I maybe a temporary poor dude with no aquipment, I wouldn't denied my passion for C&C. I'll see it happens no matter how long it'll take.
10,000% awesome! It’s to bad that we will never get to know more about that part of the universe. I also hope to god we don’t see another game though... it’s been too long and after the game we don’t mention because it never happened it would get inevitably corrupted
I choose to believe that all the non-canon endings in all the C&C games happen in alternate timelines. If the Soviets win the original Red Alert, Cain gains access to Chronosphere tech and repeatedly travels into the past, using his knowledge of the future and advanced tech to entrench the Brotherhood across history. The Scrin are the result of Cain's World Altering Missile. That world uses Chronosphere tech to seed and harvest entire universes in other timelines. Divination/Ascension is just a way of saying "self-sustaining time loop".
That is what would it most likely be if Westwood contued the CNC franchise but in CNC3 Kane say's something like "So I can finally escape this God forsaken rock and the species that calls themselves man kind" ik that this isn't exactly what he says but I know he said it in a way like he wasn't human more like he is an alien of some sort.
I do believe that the overlord that rules over the current scrin is a Ascended. Maybe that's why the overlord was so intrigued into Kane or what the overlord would call him "The Anomaly"
I think a good way to look at the terminology used in-universe is like this: if we were accompanying the story from the perspective of some hypothetical aliens -- let's call them gammas -- and the gammas came into contact with humanity, specifically, let's say... the Brotherhood of Nod, the gammas would call them "the Humans", because that is _all_ the gammas would know of humanity, that is their only point of contact. Little would the gammas know that GDI exists, that the Forgotten exist, and that several non-aligned, non militarized groups of survivors exist on Earth, who have no love for Nod nor no allegiance to them, humanity is not monolithic, the impression that the gammas would have of humanity would be terribly misguided. So for us, calling a faction of the scrin just... "The Scrin", as if they were monolithic, demonstrates our simple bias of thinking of entire alien species as a single whole, when the reality of things is that there's no guarantee they would be unified like that, we basically just watch too much science fiction, and write too much simple minded science fiction where aliens are all united as a people.
So... Long ago on an alien world there's an advanced civilization. Tiberium shows up (because it does) and they have a similar strife as on earth; at some point there are those who are mutated (their forgotten) that go on to become what we know as The Scrin, and those who survive and harness the power of tiberium without themselves becoming mutant - the Ascended. They don't get along. Fast forward, and the Ascended are advanced and space-faring and what not, and visit early earth. Kane kills one of them. They put the immortality "curse" on him (somehow) and leave, but left the tacitus (oops). Eventually, tiberium comes to earth, and we know how that goes. Kane knows about it from the Ascended thousands of years ago - and he wants to harness its power and become like they are. Summoning the Scrin will give him a gateway to their world - whether to join them or seek revenge. Brother (of the) Scrin. Enemy (of the) Ascended.
Something I always pondered about this idea of using the Scrin tower to supposedly go somewhere. Let's say the idea is Kane wants to go to the name-dropped Ichor Hub. Ok, so this is a place no human has any business being in because odds are the very act of entering it, considering if we assume it a planet of some sort, likely makes it devoid of anything a human would need to sustain themselves. For one, it's probably full of Tiberium to such a massive quantity, entering it would utterly devastate any human. But...if we assume Kane's motive is to end his millennia long life, then perhaps that's the point? Him bringing any followers along for the ride sure seems like a lot of dead Noddies, to be fair. I can't imagine the local Scrin forces being too amused by such an intrusion into one of their empire's very vital Ichor related facilities either. One big issue arises here, though. If we assume Kane is a human cursed with immortality looking to die, and all it would take to break that immortality is for him to in essence jump into a massive Tiberium field, he surely would have just gone for a walk in a Red Zone, or locked himself in a chamber with cultivated Tiberium in it soon after it arrived rather than go through all this extra effort. I will point something out relating to this in a bit. So Kane needing the Scrin tower and the Ichor hub to exterminatus himself seems unlikely. Especially, because if he arrives and does not die, he basically is now hanging out with those Scrin I mentioned on a one way trip to have a chat with their Overlord about something, or another. The moment Kane steps though that Threshold, assuming it doesn't kill him, he would be entering most likely a place where he has nobody as backup, and is alone, because anyone who does come along for the ride will not be surviving on the other end. Kane though? Welllll... Now to point that something out. Remember in Tib Sun when Kane has Umagon prisoner and shows her the world altering missile? Sure seems like Kane isn't too fussed about hanging around the funny green liquid she is being injected with. Green liquid stored in quite vulnerable looking bags, mind you. Green as in Tiberium is in that liquid. One of them breaking would probably be lethal for any human in the room...but hey, considering how long Kane himself spends hanging around areas with very heavy Tiberium infestation and seemingly doesn't display any symptoms of Tiberium doing anything to him, then perhaps Kane's immortality also means Tiberium cannot kill him? Thus, reasons, it cannot mutate him either. So...if we go with the idea to become Ascended you need to not be biologically dependent on Tiberium (Scrin and The Ascended), yet you need Tiberium to do this to fuel the needed technology, meaning almost certain exposure, it's worth examining Kane is now in a very very unique position due to his potential immunity. As he would be, per assumption, qualified per this requirement to Ascend, if he only figures out how to do so. Seems to go hand in hand with his megalomania too, plus giving a potential explanation to where it could stem from. After all, if you were a unique anomalously immortal being capable of literally rising to a higher state of being than most if only you put the puzzle pieces (that you have knowledge, or some knowledge of being a thing) together in the correct combination, don't tell me it wouldn't go to your head.
Or is kane an ascended being who committed a crime against a fellow ascended and they banished him in human yet immortal form to earth to suffer amongst the ignorant and underdeveloped. And se hes been advising and directing humanity over time to develop technology he can use to finally ascend back. Makes sense to me
I do believe that, based on what I've been told and evidence I've seen, that No Strings is correct here - EALA had plans, with Tiberium, to expand on Kane's backstory. My theory goes something like this: - Kane was from the future. - Something happens in the future, possibly in an alternate timeline - perhaps an energy crisis - leading to the creation of Tiberium. - Kane is tied to the events around that situation and is exiled into the past, starting the loop of the Tiberium universe. - Kane forms Nod and Tiberium is seeded by the Scrin on Earth. - TW1, 2 and 3 happen. - The Forgotten mutate over time and some Nod subjects become mutated. - Kane is thought to be finally defeated. - The Earth is left in a bad state after the second Scrin invasion is destroyed, forcing Humanity, eventually, in the far future, to create a system to channel Tiberium off-world or control it in some way. - More humans mutate, and an addiction to Tiberium becomes common, changing the biology of those who become addicted. - A human grows and ages. People find he reminds them of Kane. He adopts the name. - As more and more humans become mutated, Humanity becomes the minority and mutants the majority, leading to a conflict. - As the Earth becomes hostile to Humans both physically and socially, Humans develop a way to "ascend", either by becoming AI and leaving the confines of their human bodies, or by trying to travel through time. They send the Tacitus as well. - Kane rebels against the mutated human race - events unfold that lead to his judgment. He is then exiled through the "Ichor Hub" into the past. He is now stuck in this loop over and over again, unable to leave or die. Should he die, another Kane is born in the future and the same events unfold again. - Kane seeks to alter the future. "He who commands the future, conquers the past...", yadda yadda. He seeks ascension through the Scrin threshold tower because it travels both through time *and* space, which would allow him to alter his future and thus, his fate. - "Brother" (carefully chosen here to imply a link to Nod) refers to Humans in the future. "Ascended" is what they become. They are the Scrin. The Forgotten are just as much "Scrin" as the ones we call the Scrin. - This is why the Scrin know of Kane, but don't have more info, like his genetic derivation (their paths cross in the future, and the "Ichor Hub" database they check probably crosses time and space - perhaps it doesn't, but they were sent into the past with an incomplete or redacted database ("just the essentials")). Due to timeline shenanigans, it is very probable that the Scrin forces in C&C3 are from a time that does not know of Kane properly (perhaps he is an old legend to them, forgotten in their far, distant future where they came from - or perhaps those Scrin come from before Kane is known). It's also possible this Kane is slightly different, as he is from a different timeline than them, or that he has undergone some mutation (be it deliberate or not). - The Scrin are essentially Humans. Nod mutants and the Forgotten become, over many eons, the Scrin we fight in C&C3, and the "original Scrin" are the ones who sent the Tacitus and are future humans (basically "us"). There are many things that hint at this - especially in Tiberium, the cancelled FPS. There was an art of a character that looked like Kane, but was referred to as not being Kane, by the artist who drew said piece. There is a theme from the game called "From the Future". There is also concept art showing the Scrin supervisor's "face" from Tiberium Wars, but it's revealed that beneath the "face", which is either a sort of helmet or digital distortion effect, is the face of a human. Of course, there are many more hints. IIRC, the "Tiberium Bible", which I believe drew inspiration from the TS Story Bible, dated an artifact to being older than was scientifically possible, which is a classic fiction trope that is meant to evoke that this "something" was actually sent back from the future. I might be misremembering this last part, though. Again, this is from stuff I read about and heard 10+ years ago. Some of the information might be jumbled in my head. But that's the jist of it.
So if we were to follow the speculation regarding Kane wanted a revenge against the Ascended, it IMPLIES that the Ascended is actually "God" in which Christianity believed in, since God gave Cain his ironic eternal punishment, that means the elimination of The Ascended, and replacing the Ascended with Kane and his most loyal followers. Sort of makes sense, but that leaves a hole in which it contradicts what we believe as Ascension to become one with higher beings and not to eliminate them. I guess Kane wanted a seat of power alongside with the Ascended of Tiberium(?). I will still go by with the terms "God" of Christianity (it just makes sense for the lore), and that leaves the Ascended are beings under the Three Supreme Ascended (The Holy Trinity, and one of them, Jesus "The Son" have descended upon earth to share the goodwill of the Ascended towards mankind, as if mankind are the one closely resembles the Ascended or maybe the more beloved kind amongst others) or rather there are just three Supreme Beings/Ascended (theoretically). That leaves the Ascended must have the same roles as the Old Ones (or whatever it is called) from Warhammer, and Kane wanted to play a part in Godhood within the Ascended. Or maybe, since it's the only way for him to end his immortality, he chose to Ascend as if the Ascended will have to eliminate him for good as it would create an imbalance of the Universe which the Ascended had created. Idk if there's any holes in my speculation and this is getting religiously controversial (sorta), it is up for interpretation, thanks for reading 🙏.
I have a question that I would like to see answered: To who does the "Scrin" ship belong? This might seem an easy answer, "It's NOD's ofcourse!". But It's not that simple to me. For example even Kane refers to it as "we constructed an alien ship". Perhaps he meant "reconstructed" or even "repaired". I see 4 options for the ships origins: 1: It's NOD's. Nod made it using knowledge perhaps gained from the Tacitus, although for what purpose is unknown since as far as we can tell the ship didn't carry weapons. Kane does tell his followers they build it, so maybe it's a design for an alien ship found in the Tacitus that they somehow managed to recreate. That is why they would still call it an alien ship and a Scrin ship. There do remain some questions like why he never builds more or why such an enormous and valuable ship is never used for any of his plans other than "it's full of technology that we need". This is in stark contrast to all his other technology, like Cabal/Legion and stealth tech, which he does keep using in his plans. Instead he refocuses on subterranean technology... Perhaps for the purpose of finding more burried Scrin/Ascended tech? Which leads to the second option. 2: It's from the Scrin. Kane might say they build it, but he's a charismatic leader who uses propaganda to further his cause all the time. Telling his subordinates that he has the power to build such a ship is a perfect way to enhance his status even more and make sure the unstable leaders he has gathered won't think of killing their Golden Goose. However the ship itself could have been build by the Scrin instead, perhaps this ship was the one that seeded the original asteroids and launched them at earth, or it was a scoutship meant to moniter Earth while it was being seeded but somehow was crashed and captured by NOD. 3: It's from those you call the Ascended. It could be a ship from the Ascended themselves, perhaps it crashed in ancient times and actually held the Tacitus back then, only to have the Tacitus taken from the ship and later reunited by Kane's inquisitive hoarding. This would help explain the differences between the Scrin designed ships and the crashed alien ship, which is much less the biological type with moving parts that almost every building, unit and ship of the Scrin has. It also explains why the Tacitus holds data about how to combat tiberium, which would not be a line of research that the Scrin themselves would go for while the Ascended who are fighting against Tiberium definitely would. 4: It's the ship from Kane and Abel themselves. Kane is too weird to be a human. He's too resiliant (although that fluctuates as getting stabbed gets him "killed" but getting shot is A-OK), he knows to look for technologies and knowledge before anyone else and he seems to have been pushing humanity into conflicts and force them to expand their technology faster which suggests an agenda. So what if he and Abel actually crash-landed on Earth but without the means to get back home? Their Crash could have come from a battle with the Ascended which also crashed and left the Tacitus, which Kane did not realize for millenia. This explains how Kane got there and perhaps why he's so different from both humans and Scrin. So when he says that he build the alien ship he's correct: He had the ship build by his own race and at his temple he was repairing it.
Galaxy brain theory: The Ascended and the Visitors used to be human, and now Kane has travelled back in time to help humanity escape becoming Visitors after aeons of tiberium exposure
"Brother", "ascended", "enemy" and "scrin". What if "scrin" is a word in these aliens' native language that essentially means 'enemy' but has a different emphasis than the normal word for 'enemy'? Maybe something more akin to "heretic" but lacking sufficient context in the tacitus for us to be able to translate accurately? We have several words with the same basic meanings but different contexts in every language I'm aware of on earth. An example (albeit maybe not the best example) would be "lake" "pond" "sea" "ocean" "river" "stream", etc. All these words refer to bodies of water, but all have different contexts. Just a thought.
An interesting question is how Tratos came to have any knowledge of how to translate the Tacitus. CABAL through Kane is understandable, but how did the leader of the Forgotten learn anything about the Ascended? Why not Mobius? It could be Tratos has a connection to the Bolivian temple where the second Tacitus shard is kept, but that's only speculation, the mundane but more likely option. A second option that's less likely but more interesting IMO is that Tiberium not only retains minerals/original matter in it's replication but can also contain and transmit information. A race/species(?) like the Forgotten that is increasingly linked to Tiberium might also develop a mutation that allows contact with the information Tiberium contains. Even partially understood it would Tratos the foundation to be relevant in the Tacitus' translation.
To me Cain and Able found a Scrinship in the desert. Cain walked inside and was overtaken by a hivemind and in a fit of insane rage he kills his brother. The technology on the ship keeps him young (and more insane). The hivemind is what drives him forward because the entity in his mind wants to go home.
_"Brother. Ascended. Enemy. Scrin."_ Unless the order GDI incripted from this is out of whack, it also seems to suggest that *maybe,* the Aliens we call the Scrin are actually these Ascended, who "ascended" through their mutation by Tiberium, similar to what Nod supposedly is trying to do and the Forgotten ironically are closer to resembling. Thus, the ACTUAL Scrin may have been the non-mutated members of the species that ended up waging war against them. Thus, the possible phrase: *_"Brother Ascended, enemy Scrin."_* Given the apperant religious aspect of Scrin society, like the Traveler *Sect* and the *Cult* of Reaper, the terms "brother" and "Ascended" would make sense. The mutated aliens developed a religion around this "Ichor" (blood of the gods) and saw their own mutations as "evolutions", "ascensions". Meanwhile, those not mutated by Tiberium were seen as heretic, as the enemy. Who knows? Maybe "Scrin" is not the name of their species, but a sland used by the mutated aliens to describe their non-mutated brethren. Well, this is just my take on this at least.
I think Kane was one of the Pre-Tiberium Scrin, the son of the first 2 Scrins who went to Earth for unknown motives (maybe colonization?), but because Kane killed his brother, the Pre-Tiberium Scrins cursed and banished him to "Noqdi", which the "i" was used to mean "The Land of" and after taking "q" away, leaves us with "The Land of Nod". A few centuries pass and Kane heard about "Ascension" through unknown ways, and wanted to end his suffering by achieving his goal of "Ascension". Or just, you know, Kane and the Scrin are future humans like Westwood originally wanted before EALA came in. TL;DR: Ascended came to Earth and placed two people, Kane gets cursed and banished to Noqdi, learns about Ascension and wants to replicate it to end his suffering.
Elerium from XCOM is also basically the same material. In fact, in the prequial game it's mentioned/shown that *refined* Elerium is literally indistinguishable from Tiberium in any given property. Makes me like to think that the "What is to come" the Elders REEEEEE about as you beat them is a competing alien empire, The Skrin.
![TW Advanced Mod Gameplay [CABAL] | C&C 3 Tiberium Wars](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VaR3_xsIapA/mqdefault.jpg)
I really hope one day the franchise revives wholesale. The hanging plot threads and left over questions here make my brain tingle. Especially for a game essentially about armies laying into each other over resources.
i dont have a ton of confidence in EA's ability to handle a new C&C title, but i guess i have some slightly revitalized confidence in their ability to handle the C&C franchise _in general_ due to how incredible Remastered was.
@@Templarfreak by some miracle let’s hope Petroglyph gets given it. Though that’s likely pie in the sky thinking
@@rvh1999 It is a 1 to 1 remaster, not a remake. Of course all the old issues are still there. Now if they were to to a complete remake, then they can fix all that, I would think.
The problem is Joe Kucan would be too old to play Kane, and c&c without Kane just isn't c&c.
@@DoomStarRequiem 2 year old reply aside- age only factors as much as if Joe wants to do it or not. Plenty of older actors still smashing it, JK Simmons is 68, Takaya Kuroda is 58 (same age as Joe)- Peter “Optimus Prime” Cullen is 82.
Plenty of ways around old age.
Now that is interesting
Also explains why Kane never calls them the Scrin, he calls them the visitors. Because he knows they are not the actual Scrin
Ohhh! Yeah!
Oh crap, you're right, that makes perfect sense now!
@Mobysimo
They USED to be Scrin. until they mutated into a insect-like race. Now they're a sickening parody of their origins.
It also shows that the Scrin and Ascended have a common ancestor as their dependent on Tiberium also shows that it has to be infused in a controlled environment, inplying that they didn't originally evolve with the stuff.
I have some theories:
Theory 1: The common ancestor of the Scrin and Ascended discovered the element and a religious cult eventually got their hands on the data. The element was most likely contained as they brought it back to their home world, but the fanatical cult eventually took it and started spreading it around their planet, and some of them escaped to space, while the rest stayed to continue using the stuff, eventually becoming dependent on the radiation it emits.
Theory 2: The element was introduced to their planet by some natural disaster (meteorite impact) and eventually lead to the same outcome as theory 1.
Theory 3: Ichor was never a natural element but made by a fanatical cult to bring potential members to them, leading to the same outcome as theory 1, but the knowledge of its creation was eventually forgotten.
No strings: mentions Jethild
The fanbases of both: 👀
We NEED a podcast with both of them!
@@autoloadable or, at the least, a collab video
Same here! I watch both of them in same session. They are not even competition. They should seriously consider cooperation.
According to former C&C designer Adam Isgreen, however, Tiberian Dawn in fact follows on the conclusion of Red Alert's Allies campaign, while Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge take place in a second parallel universe, created by a new attempt to alter history in "Incursion", the working title of Westwood Studios' cancelled version of Command & Conquer 3. Isgreen also implied that Nikola Tesla may have been responsible for inadvertently having attracted the attention of the Scrin through his experiments, and thus for the arrival of Tiberium on Earth. An alternate way of connecting the two universes was through one of the drafts of the Renegade 2 storyline, but the two games were cancelled in 2003.
I do personally much prefer this version than the other's thrown about.
@@nodcommanderthe5823 see that, this how to made great plot of the story take that C&C4 EA timeline this why Westwood always win. both me and XYCH are right
I just can't buy RA1 being connected to Tiberian Dawn.
Tiberian Dawn takes place in our current timeline circa 1995. If mean mustache man was killed in 1924 and the Soviet Union occupied West Europe for 40 years following an alternate World War 2, that world would look completely different to our own, not the very familiar one we see in TD.
@@ausaskar Good point but even then, at the end of the RA1 Soviet campaign Nadia notes that the Soviets will collapse in the 1990s. Whether this is just an note to the actual Soviet collapse or was apart of Kane's plan to move the Soviets into collapse (as he possibly believed that a major global event needed to happen by then) is anyone's guess.
I honestly hope that if we do get another new entry into either the RA or Tib universes it is a game that connects the two universes together. Whether it starts after RA1 (1952) which you would have 45 years to play with or after YR (1973) with 24 years to play with depends on one's preference. I personally wouldn't started it after RA3 because I liked the whole Yuri was a agent of Kane idea that was thrown around in "Incursion"
Finally someone got it, I noticed long ago that in the Scrin campaign that there is a hidden line of dialogue where the Supervisor said "Species must be Scrin" when talking about humans, implying that their whole invasion was about finding out more about their enemy, the actual Scrin.
Come again 👀
A hidden dialog? In the game files? Or can one find it in the Scrin Campaign?
@@TurKlack in the game files, it's in the unused subtitles. I only learned about it because of an unofficial subtitles patch.
@@SuperFeatherYoshi wow, Guess Its time to check the files, tho i wont find anything new
So maybe Scrin is not the name of a species or group, but the moniker for a concept.
Something like antichrist, with the meaning of a powerful enemy that will (and can) oppose tiberium.
The transformed Scrin call the other side this way because they did not embrace the tiberium but used it to ascend. And the ascended ones call them that because they did not overcome the mutation and dependency of the tiberium but surrendered themselves to it.
The idea I had was that Kane was exiled to Earth from another planet, and that Earth is "The Land of Nod". Which still doesn't preclude him originally being from Earth.
Nah, there's an actual Land of Nod right here on Earth. Go find older maps of the area around ancient Sumeria, east to the mountains from which the Euprhate and Tigris spring; you'll find a name for the place, Noqdi. With the i in most languages on Earth denoting a possessive form, it really becomes The Land of Noqd, or as a different language drift calls it, Nod. The Land of the Nomads is very much an actual place on Earth.
So maybe tiberium acts out the curse of making his land barren?
@@williamshakemilk2192 interesting theory, if the scrin hadn't harvested tiberium from other planets like this before
I find it amazing that that there are still people who propagate and love the lore of a game that hasn’t had a release in almost a decade (let’s ignore everything cc4 and beyond plz). The fact that people still conjecture about the lore to this day should be reason enough for a team to be allowed to make a proper sequel to the franchise.
Perhaps the Scrin were manufactured by the Ascended for the purpose of Tiberium exploitation, I mean they have no names only titles (Overlord, Advisor, Foreman etc) and they have no agency beyond the cultivation and harvesting of what they call Ichor but we know as the blood of gods.
I think the Scrin are like the Hierarchy in Universe at War, and Kane is the last survivor of the the Masari equivalent whose entire race's existence has been erased from the Scrin history to prevent the lower ranks from finding out that they wiped out their creators/saviours.
That may explain why the Scrin want Earth and Kane wiped out after the retreat through the Threshold, like Kane they don't like people digging in places best left undisturbed.
Another possibility is that they are both Scrin, and calling their enemy Scrin just means that they aren't united as a race. So there's mutated Scrin (the ones in C&C3) and the ascended Scrin.
Kind of like how "Ascension" for the Brotherhood is different from Mutation
I wouldn't be surprised if the Ascended visited Earth long ago and humanity considered them God, and they gave Cain his immortality...
A most intriguing perspective on the Ascended, the Tacitus and Kane. I enjoy these videos you and Jethild put out about the Tib saga.
I can also appreciate the inspiration of the background music alluding to Tiberian Sun's soundtrack; Gloom.
I was tempted to do something like Gloom, but in the end, went my own way. (:
Wait this is basically the Humans and the Nephilim or the Watchers and Angels combined with the Descendents of Cain and the Great Flood.
Who and what?
@@TurKlack
Decendants of Kane = Nod
Humans = GDI
Nephilim and Watchers = Scrin
Angels = Not Scrin
One of my favorite RUclips channels. Always an enthralling video, a well written script, perfect pacing, etc. And, it's about my favorite games. Keep it up!
Dang, thank you so much! This really meant a lot to hear, thank you!
... Could it be that Kane was on the Scrin Homeworld, before they became Tib scrin? Could it be that he wanders from Planet to Planet trying to unlock the secret of Tiberium Mutation dooming entire Planets and civilizations in the process?
It's a shame that C&C 4 was never made. Kane isn't getting younger... *sigh* I hate corporates.
I still think he's a Martian who betrayed his brother who was the General leading the resistance against the Scrin as they harvested Mars.
He’s not getting older either! Seriously, has he even aged a day?
@@AVerySexuallyDeviantOrange Tiberium really helps with your skin, and can give it healthy glow. As Kane has demonstrated
@@charleswilliam6234 Maybe I was born with it. Maybe it's Tibelline.
Kane is the very same Kane from the vibe. Son of Adam and Eve, killed his own brother and cursed by God to forever wonder to earth and never die or know peace.
That's why Kane always preaches about his ascension
I like the idea that the scrin are to the galaxy what the forgotten are to earth, scrounging around like Eliksni
There's a reference I didn't expect lol
The Eliskni are underrated af
If a Tib Sun remaster is coming, they better give out the tacitus as a USB flash drive
in the form of a prism tower of RA2
@@obelic71 A Tacitus flash drive, and Prism Tower lamp
@@baseddugalle1838 it seems we are craving for the second remaster 😁
@@obelic71 You bet we are.....
@@obelic71 it would be the second time i would give EA my money since Mass Effect 3 (the other time was Tibwar remaster)
How you don't have more subs surprises me. Your lore videos are in depth and captivating!
What is really interesting is Kane's view of God
When McNeil confronts Kane saying he cant play God, Kane agrees but says that he's a close second and in TibDawn Seth says the line; "From God, to Kane to Seth" implying that while Kane sees himself as the Messiah, he doesnt consider himself a god and probably acknowledges the existence of one
The most confusing clashing contradiction of lore elements is the nature of Divination/Ascension as depicted in the TibSun Nod ending where Kane achieves Ascension using the World Altering Missile and without the aid of a Threshold Tower and in 3 where he is somehow is unable to replicate the Missile for the Third game and needs a Scrin Tower to achieve Ascension, like with GDI's anti-missile defenses down couldnt he just do the World Altering Missile launch again?
This man’s content is my favorite thing I’ve seen on RUclips in a long time
You're very kind, glad you enjoy it!
@@NoStringsPrd What do you think the odds are, if Kane is the Biblical Kane, that Seth could really have been his brother?
I'd say almost certainly not, Seth is just some guy who worked for Nod and got a bit too big for his boots, might have even taken the name Seth by choice
@@dincc8568 If that's the Bible Seth,I think he should rise up again moments later after being shot by Kane.
I really appreciate these videos. I don't have anything to add past that.
Wonderful vid as always, Stefan! I've always treated Kane's origin as Cain from the bible, and I was pretty much very influenced by the last Renegade mission where there's his alleged brother Abel's tomb directly under the nuke silo.
Given that Cain was exiled and cursed to wander the earth forever, I've assumed (without quoting C&C4) he found a way to "hack" God's curse. Maybe to him, if there are aliens, there's possible habitable planets out there, and if he can leave earth, he can't be curse to wander the earth if he's no longer on earth!
I wish the devs would have leaned more into the direction of relating to historical mythos as opposed to him being from the future or an alien... That's so cliche and so many stories have done that
even if this one didn't have the fancy visuals, i still love your Lore videos!
it's kinda eerie to draw parallels of the scrin to the ascended as the forgotten is to the humans.. it would open up so many possibilities..
Another Tib Universe document... you just made my day again, brother. 🥳
If the data given on what was said about the Scrin and “Ascended” are to be taken at face value then is it possible that they’re actually the result of the “Nod Tib sun ending”. As in what Nod and Kane failed to do in Tib sun during the canon timeline, has actually happened before with the Scrin? I ask this since the translated message in GDI In Ops seems to point to this speculation which means that humanity may have prevented the same fate.
As for Tiberium itself, I personally believe that Dr. Mobius may have been correct in saying that Tiberium is a new sentient life. Perhaps it came from its own planet and spread on its own. Given the psionic powers of the Forgotten, it maybe possible that Tiberium maybe passively controlling other species and individuals to facilitate its continued spread, especially on the Scrin. Frankly a topic going over the potential sentience of Tiberium is both interesting and frightening given what we’ve seen of the crystal so far.
I can actually see this being a thing in all honesty that would give further explanation as to why the Scrin seeded the world. Not because they needed to do so to survive but because the crystal was compelling them to do so. And more then likely to many other words as well.
@@xianderthest8014 alternatively given the parasitic nature of the crystal themselves to terraform anything they come into contact with, there is the possibility that the crystals may force a dependency from them to keep their control to the point of needing it to live despite the mutations as we see with the Scrin. Alternatively this may not be the case due to the mutation and it’s simply their technology that needs Tiberium to work.
I bring up the latter point as the Forgotten don’t seem to be as driven to spread Tiberium during Tiberium Sun, especially as they ally with GDI in the combatting of the spread despite being mutated by it. Nod is the opposite where they seek the total spread of the crystal with religious fervent to it. If it’s true that the Crystal is using psionic powers to influence others to spread it, then there are two possibilities. Either mutated Tiberium sentient life will seek to spread it further and further or mutated Tiberium sentient life have a resistance to the control of the crystal. The strange part is that two factions support either possibility with Reaper-17 supporting the former while the Forgotten support the latter.
The Tiberium FPS seemed to be heading in the direction of "Kane is from the future, the Scrin are future humanity", which explained why Kane could always come back from the dead (he's from the future, and he fails to change it every time, leading to his death in the past, the Forgotten becoming the Scrin, Humanity going extinct and sending Kane and the Tacitus back in time, etc.). Kane's only way to break the cycle, would be to escape Earth in the past and/or drastically alter the timeline. This also explains why the words "Ascended" and "Brother" were used in that transmission, and why Nod also strangely uses those same terms - Nod and The Forgotten are what become the Scrin/Ascended in the future. At least that's my take on what they were going to do with the story, based on the story bible for Tiberium. Most of this is unverifiable theory, but it checks out with what was written in the Tiberium story bible. There was also an image from Richard Taylor III's, the C&C3 cinematic director's website, that showed the Scrin but with a human face - implying that the Scrin face (Supervisor) we see in C&C3 has some image-altering (much like what CABAL did to Kane's face in TS to hide the damage to his face) done to it, or that the Supervisor is an even more mutated form of the Scrin (Perhaps that Human face was an Ascended?), or again it had a helmet on. So it would seem like at one point, the Scrin, Kane and the Tacitus, were all from Humanity's future, and the Scrin were going to be future, mutated Humans.
@@Alex06CoSonic This is honestly the first time I've heard of a Story Bible for C&C along with the first time I'm hearing of this information overall. I will admit that I know absolutely nothing about the cancelled Tiberium FPS aside from it being directly after C&C3 on the timeline but much of this information seems...Strange. I don't doubt that a story bible doesn't exist but for the most part, Westwood seemed to only start developing the story more following Red Alert 1 into Tiberium Sun. If the Bible was created during this time, then it's safe to say that the information provided likely was just concept ideas and cancelled material since C&C Insurrection was cut with Tiberium Wars using the general ideas from Insurrection's development but changing a lot.
In saying that also, the information provided seems quite weird since it's never implied that the Scrin are humans as they don't seem to have much knowledge of Earth nor even Kane. If they were from the Future as humans, they would surely remember important things like GDI, Nod, the events of the different Tiberium Wars, and especially Kane. Sure the Overseer seems to mention that Kane was already in the databanks, or well...One like him already since he refers to him as a creature but they clearly no nothing about him. I should also mention that while the Tiberium universe is directly connected to the Red Alert universe, Time Travel is entirely absent in the Tiberium verse. Not because it doesn't exist but likely because the creators don't want the Tiberium verse to infringe too much on the Red Alert universe outside of the connections that lead to the Tiberium Timeline (Though I suppose it's also important to remember that Red Alert hasn't taken place far enough into the timeline for Tiberium to even show up to begin with...)
Honestly just thinking over the entire topic, C&C is far more complex then originally made out to be.
@@Alex06CoSonic I totally agree with you buddy and actually your view reflects one oldie but good game called Battlezone II: Combat Commander where basically the "alien" faction (called the Scions, kinda similar to Scrin) were future mutated/evolved humans. What I loved about that old game was how it seamlessly combined FPS with RTS... by being commander and going into the commander hub bunker, then the game becomes an RTS... however you can snap out of the bunker and enter into one of your super powered mechs. I kinda like that game design idea for something like Warhammer 40K... it'll be fun to play as RTS commander for a bit, create yourself a Titan, and then hop into it, and go on a final destructive spree to destroy the opponent's base, while still giving out some commands aka Bannerlord style. I dunno, just some ideas for a next C&C5 or Warhammer 40K game.
Another great theory-ridden vid. God I love these. Bloody well done Stefan ;)
"Vid"
This would give Kane an nice, extra layer of character. Ultimately what he's doing is for selfish reasons I suspect, but after 4 millennia, seeing everything and everyone you've ever known crumble to dust, can you blame the man?
Loved the episode as always! Looking forward to the next one. Stay safe mate.
If the mutations of the Forgotten and the Scrin made them incompatible with Ascension due to their corruption by tiberium, what does that make of Kane's attempts to see the planet altered by it and the process of "Divination"? Was he simply using Tiberium as a means to an end, sacrificing humanity and Earth to achieve his this mythical ascension, or is the fusion of machine, flesh, and tiberium in a directed mutation (or "evolution") truly a step along the way for humanity to achieve this goal, and to save humanity from what he may have seen as an impending doom from his early contact with "the Ascended"?
Probably ascension = directed mutation instead of randomized mutation like what happened to the Forgotten. The world altering missile in Tib: Sun was designed to change Earth from a carbon based planet to a tiberium based. Changing life on it too. Kane does say that through the Tacitus he found a way to achieve Humans next stage in their evolution. As for Kanes and Nods view of the Forgotten. It probably stems from them being unworthy of Tiberiums "gifts". They were not followers of Nod, they were random people who happened to survive and evolved to depend on Tiberium. To Kane, only those who are amongst the truly faithful are worthy of such gifts.
Another thing to mention, is mutation is a very hectic form of biological adaption. There are two variants:
1. Directed Mutation - Hyper-accelerated Evolution. Basically, evolution that is hastily evolving and adapting but at a steady, stable rate. One factual example would be butterflies and other creatures that adapt and evolve at different stages. However, in theory, not every creature that "evolves" would do so at the same speed, even in that kind of "stage". Humans are still evolving even after all this time, but it's slowed to barely a crawl. That said, the entire concept isn't a bad thing, but left unchecked or should someone go wrong, it turns into Variant 2.
2. Unstable Mutation - Generic, randomized, unstable mutation. This would be the stereotypical, bizzare, unnatural and unhealthy form of "forced evolution", gone wrong. Even the redhead-witch Triss Merrigold in The Witcher 2 touched on this, that "mutations are evolution rapidly altering at a unprecedented pace. It's considered the opposite to the natural process of evolution, which takes centuries to thousands of years to develop, evolving based on rational circumstances", such as habitual adaptation.
What Kane has been attempting to do, is achieve Variant 1 on a global scale, to advance humanity. In his eyes without him, humanity would still be crawling through the dirt as they were when he first arrived, and he's probably right. He is far wiser and more intelligent than any average human. Even highly-skilled scientists amuse him to some extent.
@@jordanread5829 From a comment from the Forgotten video
They want Tiberium mutation not to control them or something
Keep in mind how Machiavellian Kane is. He manipulated countless entities throughout the games in order to advance his plot. He destroyed the Philadelphia not to defeat GDI, but to weaken and goad them into using the ion cannon on Temple Prime, killing millions of Nod adherents and attracting the Scrin. It seems any loss is acceptable if it means Kane himself can achieve ascension. Everything is disposable for the sake of Kane's ascension.
What if...what if Kane was right all along? What if Kane needed to ascend us humanity achieving divination in order to fight off alien invaders?
That's what I'm going with.
One Vision, One Purpose!!
Even with very little to go on, you are still able to make an amzing top notch video, awesome work as usual mate!
So what happened to Scrin is basically what will happen to Earth if Nod wins the war like TibSun - would be a nice twist.
"Message from the Scrin we are coming"
This quote comes from TW's third faction propaganda picture. We used to think that this meant that the invading aliens were Scrin, But in conjunction with TW's story, it might mean that the invading aliens think of us as Scrin.
Another awesome video. Definitely a plausible idea, and one i never considered. The Scrin and Ascended being the same race, but divergent due to Tiberium makes a lot of sense. I also seem to remember plans for a Scrin rebel faction for Westeood's C&C3. Of course none of those original ideas are Canon, but perhaps some idea survived into the Ascended?
A surprise to have a new video so soon, but a welcome one, awesome
It's not exactly a "Video", now is it?
So Tiberium is basically like the Markers from Dead Space.
They both arrive in meteors and influence the life on the planet, but also cause the dominant lifeform to create a Zealous religion that is not limited to self mutilation or human sacrifices.
Both can also be used for raw material, but are the key for end of days in the end.
Also, in Dead Space there existed an Alien race that have been dubbed the Tau Volantians. We don’t know much about them other than that they were likely a type of aquatic creatures who found the Markers just like humanity and began to replicate them, and just like any Markers eventually they began to transform into Necromorphs, but at the last minute these aliens were able to activate a machine that would freeze the planet and the brother moon, but the Markers wouldn't give up and try reacht out to anyone to turn off the machine. They even further manipulated people into thinking it would be like a self destruct for the markers if it was turned off.
We also don't know if there was ever any infighting betweens these aliens or any religion formed around the markers such as between Unitoligy and EarthGov.
Interesting food for thought.
The Tiberium universe has the perfect mix of known stated facts and loose unanswered questions and story threads for fans to theorise over in my opinion, with an Tiberium itself serving as a fascinating plot device. Is it alive? Is it a terraforming agent? It certainly poses a threat to life on Earth as we know it which in my opinion leads to a great deal of existential horror, humanity slowly losing its place on the only world we have (some real life implications there too). The Scrin being such an enigma only adds to this and these ideas you present in this video brings some seriously fascinating and disturbing implications.
I really can't overstate how much I love this universe.
Nice video, love the explanations of the lore and the interpretations.
Also you got one of the best voices for this kind of stuff together with Stuart Brown(AHOY).
Clear, soothing and with enough tonation to keep it interesting. Don't ever stop :P
I am completely fascinated with this. Damn you're brilliant.
I really like these lorebits, cheers mate.
I already get so enticed listening to your Lore breakdowns of the Tiberium universe, but it can't be understated that your accent REALLY helps.
Seriously. His voice/accent make its 💯.
Could listen to this guy read the back of a shampoo bottle
if we have another Tiberium game(hope the remake gave EA the confidence), a plotline of the Forgotten slowly becoming more like the Scrin, and the humanity and forgotten can no longer live side by side due to tiberium would be really cool.
If you're correct, what we call Scrin might actually be more like a combination of Nod and the Forgotten. The reason I say this is because of the religious implications of Scrin lore, especially Reaper 17. If so, then would the Ascended be the alien equivalence of GDI? If so, then what would GDI look like in thousands of years? The digitization of minds has often been called ascension in other fictions. That's one option anyway.
I can't believe I never came across the Intel Entry mentioning The Ascended. then again, I always miss at least one. Great video, and I agree its best to propose ideas and ask questions than it is to say; "my Game Theory is the correct one!".
You're theories on Kane are pretty good, and draw from more of the established lore than mine, but if we are putting theories out there, how about this one:
What if Kane's end-goal is not to end his Immortality or seek Revenge? What if Kane encountered these Ascended, creatures so far beyond what we know describing one would be impossible. And Kane, faced with this Cosmic Horror, went insane. He saw mankind as a colony of ants, who's anthill was in the middle of a busy road. If mankind had any hope of surviving, it needed to evolve, to ascend, to become the equal to these beings before one of them, through accident or design, wiped out mankind. Morality, Ethics...none of that ever entered the equation. he *had* to enlighten mankind, to show them what needed to be done. This would be why he created the Brotherhood of Nod. This is why he considers Tiberium, and directed Tiberium mutation so important.
This is only a theory of course, and like I said, yours pulled more from the lore of Command and Conquer. but there's something about this idea I find so appealing. Perhaps because I enjoy villains that truly believe themselves to be a hero, even if they seem obviously evil to us. I certainly think it fits with the character we've seen in the games thus far. relentlessly driven, but not completely emotionless. And Kane has never been seen ordering the use of his WMDs on (purely) civilian targets, despite having them in all 3 Tiberium Wars.
"He saw mankind as a colony of ants, who's anthill was in the middle of a busy road. If mankind had any hope of surviving, it needed to evolve, to ascend, to become the equal to these beings before one of them."
It almost sounds like the plot of Dark Reign: The Future of War.
But if Kane's goal was to save all of humanity, why was he not an active part of their history and instead always remained hidden? If Kane was recorded in ancient texts and observed to outlive everyone around him as well as being immortal (or at least very hard to kill), humans would worship him and he would've never had to fight the GDI.
@@DemoniteBL As far as I know, Kane having supernaturally long life was simply a rumor, and never confirmed fact until C&C 4. For obvious reasons, I prefer to pretend that does not exist.
To answer your question, I would say he *did* reveal himself, and those who believed what he had to say became the Brotherhood of Nod. But the evidence of his supposed immortality was so questionable that he could not simply convince all mankind to follow him as you suggest.
And finally, I submit that Kane uses secrecy to protect himself, because he *is* the bad guy here, and despite his altruistic motives, he is somewhat selfish at heart and does not want to sacrifice himself to elevate mankind, preferring to convince others to sacrifice instead. He desires understanding, to elevate mankind, but he wants to be alive to experience this himself.
But this is all just my take on Kane.
Huh, I was just thinking about if you'd made a Scrin vid and couldn't remember it. Crazy!
Damn, I'm a Catholic, but I never knew about the "Marked of Kane" in the Bible, which actually makes sense since Tiberium also has its way to turn lands into barren wastelands.
Great work!
I bet that all Kane means by "Ascension" is...Death. Breaking the mark of Kane that God has placed on him and finally dying.
I’ve watched this multiple times because it’s so much fun.
Desperate for the series to come back. I love the law behind this game and will forever be waiting for it. Goddamn corporate ruin everything.
Ultimately Kane viewed the Forgotten as an Evolutionary Dead End. The Forgotten Mutations were too Random, they may adapt sufficiently to survive Tiberium, but not to Thrive. Kane seemed to be working towards a form of Human that could Exploit the Benefits of Tiberium without becoming Stagnant from it. The Forgotten were likely seen to be as dependent upon Tiberium as the Scrin had become.
Yesterday - Railguns from @Jethild, today this... What an amusing weekend!
You asking questions was indeed quite a lot of fun.
Can’t wait for the scin
14 years later...
The ''Brother,Ascended,Enemy,Scrin'' line always made me think of the Brotherhood of Nod whose goal was seemingly something they call ''Ascension'' , became enemy to the rest of Humanity and would eventually leave the Earth and possibly become something similar to the Scrins.
Ichor Hub exists
Me, with Ion Canon .... please
You missed one.
Oh oh, quality stuff incoming. Love it!
Spinning logo while discussing about the topic reminds me on Human song meme.
13 minutes 37 seconds long.... nice
Dude it's 38 seconds
@@DKArmstrong it was showing as 37 seconds on my desktop web browser
@@Wirespeed91 And we all know... PC master race right :p
So?
Interesting theory.
One thing I found interesting about the Scrin campaign was the Overlord’s interest in Kane. It seemed rather personal. Even to the point of risking the harvest operation and the lives of the commanders assigned to it.
So, the interesting bit is that if the biblical references are to be believed with this context Kane’s story is as follows:
Kane was a farmer, likely a member of the ascended, and probably farmed tiberium. He then murders his brother in a fit of jealousy to claim his more fruitful resources. This angered Overlord, who marked him and sent him to Earth to live amongst the humans who were primitive compared to the splendor he had.
This makes his actions make more sense. Spread tiberium, mutate the populace , and build an army to be able to overthrow the other ascended for revenge, and use the Tower to go right to the ascended to kill them. Overlord freaks out seeing Kane again, thinking he was killed by Earths savage wildlife, and risks the operation to be sure. Kane saves a tower and guaranteed his way off the planet.
Ascension is killing the ascended and taking their place.
Personal head canon: The Skrin are the species that XCOM's Elders interstellar empire is struggling against.
Good Video yet again Stefan !
The more the info and speculation is layed out, the more I think the Tiberium universe is just a divergence from the Stargate universe.
wow, aliens and portals, must mean it's Stargate! /s
Interesting fan theory so this would draw even more comparisons between spice melange which inspired tiberium and tiberium itself. Also the scrin could still be the scrin if their parent race was the scrin xD
Considering that Tiberium makes the land barren, it seems to me the direction they were wanting to go was that it was the curse upon Kane.
God job!
Thank you mister.
For me I think that Kane needed an army for some war in heaven and that army is the brotherhood of nod all branch included and the icor hub is not his final destination but he need the nod to take what ever is behind the portal of the scrin tower .
There is Soo much potential to the plot it can go far enough to breed 10 more games
Ascended theory: a bunch of Scrin claims Pineapple on Pizza is a good thing and thus dub themselves ascended
Other Scrin were not happy with such a motive...
@ down to the person's own taste tbh. Some admire the combination of sweet and salt, others just don't
Great video! Just to flip the script a bit, but what if the Scrin view themselves as the ascended, rather than their brother race? It seems there's a bit of speculation rather than 100% confirmation on who really 'ascended' here. If the Scrin are the ascended ones, what does that imply about Kane's plans for Ascension? And what does that imply about the fate of the brother race? I really do hope we get a new game to give the series a proper ending and answers to all these questions, but I guess one can only dream lol
"rising for become creatures of consciouness alone."
ALRIGHT TIME TO COOL DOWN RASSILON WE ARE NOT DOING THIS SHIT AGAIN!
The phrase was too perfect not to use, good catch
10:56 well, with Kane being there during the WW2 alongside Stalin, it's not too farfetched to think that he's some sort of super, but twisted, man.
I wish we could have the writers for the CNC saga come back to write something like that website that explains the whole Metal Gear storyline.
Also it's lovely how they chose "Kane" as is sounds exactly like "Cain".
Will we get fully noticed by the sleeping giant 'westwood'? We held the creativity of it's revival! Kane still live among us, goofier than ever. I had tons of idea to share. GDI needs a powerful and iconic representative, Kane needs more reckless agenda and aggresive arsenal, Scrin needs a lore for it's origin and tiberium needs to reveal it's creator! I maybe a temporary poor dude with no aquipment, I wouldn't denied my passion for C&C. I'll see it happens no matter how long it'll take.
tiberium incursion is that you
10,000% awesome! It’s to bad that we will never get to know more about that part of the universe. I also hope to god we don’t see another game though... it’s been too long and after the game we don’t mention because it never happened it would get inevitably corrupted
"Kane is anomalous"
*The SCP foundation would like to know the anomaly location*
_"SCP-073 has escaped"_
Yay another video.
I choose to believe that all the non-canon endings in all the C&C games happen in alternate timelines.
If the Soviets win the original Red Alert, Cain gains access to Chronosphere tech and repeatedly travels into the past, using his knowledge of the future and advanced tech to entrench the Brotherhood across history.
The Scrin are the result of Cain's World Altering Missile. That world uses Chronosphere tech to seed and harvest entire universes in other timelines.
Divination/Ascension is just a way of saying "self-sustaining time loop".
Quess i'll have to replay the whole scrin campaign :p
That is what would it most likely be if Westwood contued the CNC franchise but in CNC3 Kane say's something like "So I can finally escape this God forsaken rock and the species that calls themselves man kind" ik that this isn't exactly what he says but I know he said it in a way like he wasn't human more like he is an alien of some sort.
So cool
The Scrin are actually mutated Ewoks and this was meant to be a Return of the Jedi/CnC crossover before LucasFilm pulled out
Where is the GDI video man? I want that juicy lore!
Ah my favorite commander what do have for me
well done! Can't wait for the next video
I do believe that the overlord that rules over the current scrin is a Ascended. Maybe that's why the overlord was so intrigued into Kane or what the overlord would call him "The Anomaly"
suddenly, Tiberium universe has a depth of Mass Effect saga.... only if someone would give developers enough support...
I think a good way to look at the terminology used in-universe is like this: if we were accompanying the story from the perspective of some hypothetical aliens -- let's call them gammas -- and the gammas came into contact with humanity, specifically, let's say... the Brotherhood of Nod, the gammas would call them "the Humans", because that is _all_ the gammas would know of humanity, that is their only point of contact.
Little would the gammas know that GDI exists, that the Forgotten exist, and that several non-aligned, non militarized groups of survivors exist on Earth, who have no love for Nod nor no allegiance to them, humanity is not monolithic, the impression that the gammas would have of humanity would be terribly misguided. So for us, calling a faction of the scrin just... "The Scrin", as if they were monolithic, demonstrates our simple bias of thinking of entire alien species as a single whole, when the reality of things is that there's no guarantee they would be unified like that, we basically just watch too much science fiction, and write too much simple minded science fiction where aliens are all united as a people.
Damn I love this universe
So... Long ago on an alien world there's an advanced civilization. Tiberium shows up (because it does) and they have a similar strife as on earth; at some point there are those who are mutated (their forgotten) that go on to become what we know as The Scrin, and those who survive and harness the power of tiberium without themselves becoming mutant - the Ascended. They don't get along. Fast forward, and the Ascended are advanced and space-faring and what not, and visit early earth. Kane kills one of them. They put the immortality "curse" on him (somehow) and leave, but left the tacitus (oops). Eventually, tiberium comes to earth, and we know how that goes. Kane knows about it from the Ascended thousands of years ago - and he wants to harness its power and become like they are. Summoning the Scrin will give him a gateway to their world - whether to join them or seek revenge.
Brother (of the) Scrin. Enemy (of the) Ascended.
Oh boy, this gonna be amazing!!
I think the wording brother and enemy, rather than brothers and enemies implies a singular entity. Perhaps a specific person from the BROTHERhood?
Something I always pondered about this idea of using the Scrin tower to supposedly go somewhere. Let's say the idea is Kane wants to go to the name-dropped Ichor Hub. Ok, so this is a place no human has any business being in because odds are the very act of entering it, considering if we assume it a planet of some sort, likely makes it devoid of anything a human would need to sustain themselves. For one, it's probably full of Tiberium to such a massive quantity, entering it would utterly devastate any human. But...if we assume Kane's motive is to end his millennia long life, then perhaps that's the point? Him bringing any followers along for the ride sure seems like a lot of dead Noddies, to be fair. I can't imagine the local Scrin forces being too amused by such an intrusion into one of their empire's very vital Ichor related facilities either. One big issue arises here, though. If we assume Kane is a human cursed with immortality looking to die, and all it would take to break that immortality is for him to in essence jump into a massive Tiberium field, he surely would have just gone for a walk in a Red Zone, or locked himself in a chamber with cultivated Tiberium in it soon after it arrived rather than go through all this extra effort. I will point something out relating to this in a bit.
So Kane needing the Scrin tower and the Ichor hub to exterminatus himself seems unlikely. Especially, because if he arrives and does not die, he basically is now hanging out with those Scrin I mentioned on a one way trip to have a chat with their Overlord about something, or another. The moment Kane steps though that Threshold, assuming it doesn't kill him, he would be entering most likely a place where he has nobody as backup, and is alone, because anyone who does come along for the ride will not be surviving on the other end. Kane though? Welllll...
Now to point that something out. Remember in Tib Sun when Kane has Umagon prisoner and shows her the world altering missile? Sure seems like Kane isn't too fussed about hanging around the funny green liquid she is being injected with. Green liquid stored in quite vulnerable looking bags, mind you. Green as in Tiberium is in that liquid. One of them breaking would probably be lethal for any human in the room...but hey, considering how long Kane himself spends hanging around areas with very heavy Tiberium infestation and seemingly doesn't display any symptoms of Tiberium doing anything to him, then perhaps Kane's immortality also means Tiberium cannot kill him?
Thus, reasons, it cannot mutate him either. So...if we go with the idea to become Ascended you need to not be biologically dependent on Tiberium (Scrin and The Ascended), yet you need Tiberium to do this to fuel the needed technology, meaning almost certain exposure, it's worth examining Kane is now in a very very unique position due to his potential immunity. As he would be, per assumption, qualified per this requirement to Ascend, if he only figures out how to do so. Seems to go hand in hand with his megalomania too, plus giving a potential explanation to where it could stem from. After all, if you were a unique anomalously immortal being capable of literally rising to a higher state of being than most if only you put the puzzle pieces (that you have knowledge, or some knowledge of being a thing) together in the correct combination, don't tell me it wouldn't go to your head.
Or is kane an ascended being who committed a crime against a fellow ascended and they banished him in human yet immortal form to earth to suffer amongst the ignorant and underdeveloped.
And se hes been advising and directing humanity over time to develop technology he can use to finally ascend back.
Makes sense to me
I do believe that, based on what I've been told and evidence I've seen, that No Strings is correct here - EALA had plans, with Tiberium, to expand on Kane's backstory. My theory goes something like this:
- Kane was from the future.
- Something happens in the future, possibly in an alternate timeline - perhaps an energy crisis - leading to the creation of Tiberium.
- Kane is tied to the events around that situation and is exiled into the past, starting the loop of the Tiberium universe.
- Kane forms Nod and Tiberium is seeded by the Scrin on Earth.
- TW1, 2 and 3 happen.
- The Forgotten mutate over time and some Nod subjects become mutated.
- Kane is thought to be finally defeated.
- The Earth is left in a bad state after the second Scrin invasion is destroyed, forcing Humanity, eventually, in the far future, to create a system to channel Tiberium off-world or control it in some way.
- More humans mutate, and an addiction to Tiberium becomes common, changing the biology of those who become addicted.
- A human grows and ages. People find he reminds them of Kane. He adopts the name.
- As more and more humans become mutated, Humanity becomes the minority and mutants the majority, leading to a conflict.
- As the Earth becomes hostile to Humans both physically and socially, Humans develop a way to "ascend", either by becoming AI and leaving the confines of their human bodies, or by trying to travel through time. They send the Tacitus as well.
- Kane rebels against the mutated human race - events unfold that lead to his judgment. He is then exiled through the "Ichor Hub" into the past. He is now stuck in this loop over and over again, unable to leave or die. Should he die, another Kane is born in the future and the same events unfold again.
- Kane seeks to alter the future. "He who commands the future, conquers the past...", yadda yadda. He seeks ascension through the Scrin threshold tower because it travels both through time *and* space, which would allow him to alter his future and thus, his fate.
- "Brother" (carefully chosen here to imply a link to Nod) refers to Humans in the future. "Ascended" is what they become. They are the Scrin. The Forgotten are just as much "Scrin" as the ones we call the Scrin.
- This is why the Scrin know of Kane, but don't have more info, like his genetic derivation (their paths cross in the future, and the "Ichor Hub" database they check probably crosses time and space - perhaps it doesn't, but they were sent into the past with an incomplete or redacted database ("just the essentials")). Due to timeline shenanigans, it is very probable that the Scrin forces in C&C3 are from a time that does not know of Kane properly (perhaps he is an old legend to them, forgotten in their far, distant future where they came from - or perhaps those Scrin come from before Kane is known). It's also possible this Kane is slightly different, as he is from a different timeline than them, or that he has undergone some mutation (be it deliberate or not).
- The Scrin are essentially Humans. Nod mutants and the Forgotten become, over many eons, the Scrin we fight in C&C3, and the "original Scrin" are the ones who sent the Tacitus and are future humans (basically "us").
There are many things that hint at this - especially in Tiberium, the cancelled FPS. There was an art of a character that looked like Kane, but was referred to as not being Kane, by the artist who drew said piece. There is a theme from the game called "From the Future". There is also concept art showing the Scrin supervisor's "face" from Tiberium Wars, but it's revealed that beneath the "face", which is either a sort of helmet or digital distortion effect, is the face of a human. Of course, there are many more hints. IIRC, the "Tiberium Bible", which I believe drew inspiration from the TS Story Bible, dated an artifact to being older than was scientifically possible, which is a classic fiction trope that is meant to evoke that this "something" was actually sent back from the future. I might be misremembering this last part, though. Again, this is from stuff I read about and heard 10+ years ago. Some of the information might be jumbled in my head. But that's the jist of it.
So if we were to follow the speculation regarding Kane wanted a revenge against the Ascended, it IMPLIES that the Ascended is actually "God" in which Christianity believed in, since God gave Cain his ironic eternal punishment, that means the elimination of The Ascended, and replacing the Ascended with Kane and his most loyal followers. Sort of makes sense, but that leaves a hole in which it contradicts what we believe as Ascension to become one with higher beings and not to eliminate them.
I guess Kane wanted a seat of power alongside with the Ascended of Tiberium(?). I will still go by with the terms "God" of Christianity (it just makes sense for the lore), and that leaves the Ascended are beings under the Three Supreme Ascended (The Holy Trinity, and one of them, Jesus "The Son" have descended upon earth to share the goodwill of the Ascended towards mankind, as if mankind are the one closely resembles the Ascended or maybe the more beloved kind amongst others) or rather there are just three Supreme Beings/Ascended (theoretically). That leaves the Ascended must have the same roles as the Old Ones (or whatever it is called) from Warhammer, and Kane wanted to play a part in Godhood within the Ascended. Or maybe, since it's the only way for him to end his immortality, he chose to Ascend as if the Ascended will have to eliminate him for good as it would create an imbalance of the Universe which the Ascended had created.
Idk if there's any holes in my speculation and this is getting religiously controversial (sorta), it is up for interpretation, thanks for reading 🙏.
I have a question that I would like to see answered: To who does the "Scrin" ship belong?
This might seem an easy answer, "It's NOD's ofcourse!". But It's not that simple to me. For example even Kane refers to it as "we constructed an alien ship". Perhaps he meant "reconstructed" or even "repaired". I see 4 options for the ships origins:
1: It's NOD's.
Nod made it using knowledge perhaps gained from the Tacitus, although for what purpose is unknown since as far as we can tell the ship didn't carry weapons. Kane does tell his followers they build it, so maybe it's a design for an alien ship found in the Tacitus that they somehow managed to recreate. That is why they would still call it an alien ship and a Scrin ship. There do remain some questions like why he never builds more or why such an enormous and valuable ship is never used for any of his plans other than "it's full of technology that we need". This is in stark contrast to all his other technology, like Cabal/Legion and stealth tech, which he does keep using in his plans. Instead he refocuses on subterranean technology... Perhaps for the purpose of finding more burried Scrin/Ascended tech? Which leads to the second option.
2: It's from the Scrin.
Kane might say they build it, but he's a charismatic leader who uses propaganda to further his cause all the time. Telling his subordinates that he has the power to build such a ship is a perfect way to enhance his status even more and make sure the unstable leaders he has gathered won't think of killing their Golden Goose. However the ship itself could have been build by the Scrin instead, perhaps this ship was the one that seeded the original asteroids and launched them at earth, or it was a scoutship meant to moniter Earth while it was being seeded but somehow was crashed and captured by NOD.
3: It's from those you call the Ascended.
It could be a ship from the Ascended themselves, perhaps it crashed in ancient times and actually held the Tacitus back then, only to have the Tacitus taken from the ship and later reunited by Kane's inquisitive hoarding. This would help explain the differences between the Scrin designed ships and the crashed alien ship, which is much less the biological type with moving parts that almost every building, unit and ship of the Scrin has. It also explains why the Tacitus holds data about how to combat tiberium, which would not be a line of research that the Scrin themselves would go for while the Ascended who are fighting against Tiberium definitely would.
4: It's the ship from Kane and Abel themselves.
Kane is too weird to be a human. He's too resiliant (although that fluctuates as getting stabbed gets him "killed" but getting shot is A-OK), he knows to look for technologies and knowledge before anyone else and he seems to have been pushing humanity into conflicts and force them to expand their technology faster which suggests an agenda. So what if he and Abel actually crash-landed on Earth but without the means to get back home? Their Crash could have come from a battle with the Ascended which also crashed and left the Tacitus, which Kane did not realize for millenia. This explains how Kane got there and perhaps why he's so different from both humans and Scrin. So when he says that he build the alien ship he's correct: He had the ship build by his own race and at his temple he was repairing it.
Galaxy brain theory: The Ascended and the Visitors used to be human, and now Kane has travelled back in time to help humanity escape becoming Visitors after aeons of tiberium exposure
"Brother", "ascended", "enemy" and "scrin".
What if "scrin" is a word in these aliens' native language that essentially means 'enemy' but has a different emphasis than the normal word for 'enemy'?
Maybe something more akin to "heretic" but lacking sufficient context in the tacitus for us to be able to translate accurately?
We have several words with the same basic meanings but different contexts in every language I'm aware of on earth.
An example (albeit maybe not the best example) would be "lake" "pond" "sea" "ocean" "river" "stream", etc.
All these words refer to bodies of water, but all have different contexts.
Just a thought.
An interesting question is how Tratos came to have any knowledge of how to translate the Tacitus. CABAL through Kane is understandable, but how did the leader of the Forgotten learn anything about the Ascended? Why not Mobius?
It could be Tratos has a connection to the Bolivian temple where the second Tacitus shard is kept, but that's only speculation, the mundane but more likely option.
A second option that's less likely but more interesting IMO is that Tiberium not only retains minerals/original matter in it's replication but can also contain and transmit information. A race/species(?) like the Forgotten that is increasingly linked to Tiberium might also develop a mutation that allows contact with the information Tiberium contains. Even partially understood it would Tratos the foundation to be relevant in the Tacitus' translation.
To me Cain and Able found a Scrinship in the desert. Cain walked inside and was overtaken by a hivemind and in a fit of insane rage he kills his brother.
The technology on the ship keeps him young (and more insane).
The hivemind is what drives him forward because the entity in his mind wants to go home.
So C&C is basically an EU version of Ancient Aliens?
_"Brother. Ascended. Enemy. Scrin."_
Unless the order GDI incripted from this is out of whack, it also seems to suggest that *maybe,* the Aliens we call the Scrin are actually these Ascended, who "ascended" through their mutation by Tiberium, similar to what Nod supposedly is trying to do and the Forgotten ironically are closer to resembling.
Thus, the ACTUAL Scrin may have been the non-mutated members of the species that ended up waging war against them. Thus, the possible phrase: *_"Brother Ascended, enemy Scrin."_*
Given the apperant religious aspect of Scrin society, like the Traveler *Sect* and the *Cult* of Reaper, the terms "brother" and "Ascended" would make sense. The mutated aliens developed a religion around this "Ichor" (blood of the gods) and saw their own mutations as "evolutions", "ascensions".
Meanwhile, those not mutated by Tiberium were seen as heretic, as the enemy. Who knows? Maybe "Scrin" is not the name of their species, but a sland used by the mutated aliens to describe their non-mutated brethren.
Well, this is just my take on this at least.
I think Kane was one of the Pre-Tiberium Scrin, the son of the first 2 Scrins who went to Earth for unknown motives (maybe colonization?), but because Kane killed his brother, the Pre-Tiberium Scrins cursed and banished him to "Noqdi", which the "i" was used to mean "The Land of" and after taking "q" away, leaves us with "The Land of Nod".
A few centuries pass and Kane heard about "Ascension" through unknown ways, and wanted to end his suffering by achieving his goal of "Ascension". Or just, you know, Kane and the Scrin are future humans like Westwood originally wanted before EALA came in.
TL;DR: Ascended came to Earth and placed two people, Kane gets cursed and banished to Noqdi, learns about Ascension and wants to replicate it to end his suffering.
sweet... can't wait
Just makes me think that the Ascended are actually the HomoDeus from ARK.
(I mean, Element and Tiberium are already very similar)
Elerium from XCOM is also basically the same material. In fact, in the prequial game it's mentioned/shown that *refined* Elerium is literally indistinguishable from Tiberium in any given property. Makes me like to think that the "What is to come" the Elders REEEEEE about as you beat them is a competing alien empire, The Skrin.
@@MeepChangeling I always just thought Elerium was just an exotic material the Elders used