Government collusion with Post Office over Horizon scandal exposed in Inquiry
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2024
- Founder of the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance Alan Bates was in front of the Post Office Inquiry today, where his correspondence with then-minister Jo Swinson was brought to light.
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Alan bates needs a medal or knighthood for his public service .
I'm sure he would just prefer proper compensation and lessons learned preventing the next mess.
I'll second that.
Could you just imagine what a fantastic country we would be living in if men like Alan were in charge.
We need people like Alan in the House of Lords
he chosen not to need such titles and honors to have intregity .thats for the tory who needs it .besides who wants to be labeled with such things that only leads to miss trust .after 14 years of tory making it a joke.
@@user-sd3ik9rt6dideally we’d get both. Proper compensation for the victims, proper consequences for those involved, AND a knighthood for Alan Bates.
It has to be prison sentences for these Post Office and Fujitsu truth twisters and personal fines too.
Truth twisters? They lied and then they committed crimes to put these Post Masters in jail knowing that they hadn't committed any crimes. The people at the top need to be put on trial and put in jail for a very long time.
Ministers and Civil servants. They need to be jailed. Start with the head of the CPS at the time. Another example
I wouldn't blame the tool too much, however P.O. *and the government* are a different story.
@@wolcek
1. Judges
2. Lawyers
3. Post Office employees [Top and Bottom]
4. Fujitsu
5. Civil Servants
Lots need to be asset stripped and jailed. For example, civil servants to lose their pensions. Judges to loose their pensions . Fujitsu bankrupted if need be.
Dont forget the BENT lawyers at Cartright & co in Bristol, they all know whats coming down the track for them...............
People lost their lives over this
People lost their liberty
People lost their livelihood
And Vennels goes for a jolly bike ride
There absolutely MUST be justice
then people went to jail after you tube chosen to farm our outrage.to look for ways to jail people for showing decent to tory by protesting again.
Glad I never got Vennereal disease from that woman !!
The Post Office underestimated the strength of a man wronged. They might have all the money, the resources, the top lawyers and even the Government on their side, but Alan Bates had truth and justice and a dogged determination to ensure that the little people were treated right. He has refused an honour until such time justice has been served, and when he does it better be to elevate him to the Lords. Lord Bates of llandudno? Yes?
Lord Bates of 'ahem' Liverpool. He's already been nominated for Freedom of the City. Liverpool has form in taking on the Establishment and finding truth, Margaret Aspinall springs to mind.....
The truth will out.
@@whatsthatnow308 He lives in Llandudno now, I believe. But if he would prefer Liverpool then fair play.
An amazing man
Don't insult him, this has all been about the Establishment. The Lords reform has failed, too.
Alan Bates is a great man. He had enough confidence in himself and his abilities that he didn't succumb to the bullying and threats of the Post Office. If it wasn't for people like him who stood up to the bully, the world would never have known of the criminal acts of the people at the top.
He deserves a knighthood
I beg to differ; he's not a great man, he's an ordinary man with significant knowledge and experience on the job, who's been pissed-off and slandered by 'big' people who thought they were clever enough to fuck people around until they got caught out, because this 'little man' knew he was in the right, and was doggedly persistent in defending himself and others in the same position.
We seem to have a habit of lionising ordinary people who defend themselves against a proverbial 'Goliath' and win, but the fact is, ordinary people often prove themselves capable of extraordinary feats when some 'big' clown tries to trample on them and feed them to a meat grinder. Alan Bates and the JFSA should not be seen as the exception, but the rule; put ordinary people under pressure in extraordinary circumstances, and you can be damn sure that if they are given the chance to unite, they will rise to the challenge.
Bullying threats AND lies and perjury.
we know it happens just look what it takes to stop it .
@@hydroknight01 i wrote a comment like this my rewared from you tube was to block the replies .as i had not broke cummunity standards but i did show decent to tory rule i screen saved it i filed the comment then screen saved and files my comlaint to you tube .then i did the same when i tried to warn youtbers when i was blocked from replying to people to show them the reply was blocked to such a anicent comment becuase .youtube has reasons
Can you just imagine the sheer stress all this has had on all these innocent people. How many dark days did they have when they also thought of suicide like some did. And they say stress kills. How many ended up ill due to it too. Every single person no matter how little their part in this cover up needs to go to prison. This is too much off the scale for any other outcome. I am just so sickened by it all.
the gov caused so much stress to so many people during Covid scamdemic as well.
They let people die alone.
How much that affected their family?
Sadly some sub-postmasters took their own lives. Families ruined. I don't expect anyone will be held properly accountable for this massive miscarriage of justice.
It is corporate manslaughter. Yes.
It’s completely sickening that all these people instead of quickly reviewing all cases they spent the time trying to cover their butts and not pay anything to any Sub post master.
The KC working for the Postmasters/Postmistresses is an absolute Gem! Worth every penny he gets for his services? 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
This man is an absolute legend, we need more people like this guy.
How many more times are we all going to be told that " lessons must be learnt" & then none ever are, I'm feed up of hearing it. This country had gone to pot.
What a difference between the demeanour of this honest man and the squirming, lying witnesses we have seen previously. If he is not rewarded with some kind of honour, and they are not given prison sentences there is something very wrong with this country.
He’s already turned down their little gongs , he’s better than that
@@karl9411 I didn't know that. I admire him even more now.
@@clarathordiss3663 he needs a reward out side of tory .one a tory can not earn or buy . a bigger one than a nighthood a noble peace prize more like for services to humanity .this mans needs medal not a knighthood tory can keep them .
last time i wrote this youtube blocked any one from replying so i must of hurt a tory nerve in youtubes algorithm
The resilience and perseverance of the sub-postmasters has been breathtaking.
Sadly some less than others
Does anyone expect any of the senior players to go to prison? Partygate showed that those who rule are above the law.
David Duckenfield was responsible for the deaths of 97 people. He lied to an enquiry and perverted the course of justice by getting officers to change their statements. Now living scott free on a massive pension. The answer to your question is a resounding 'NO'.
None will go to prison. There will be another enquiry followed years later with no lessons learned. There are previous examples of this with the Hillsborough enquiry , Jimmy Saville, and the Lucy Letby. What do all these have in common? All employed by government owned institutions; the Police, BBC and NHS, whose leadership lacks accountability.
Paula Vennells has said "SORRY".....bless her!!
So what do you really believe will happen to every slimey tricky evil player in this drama......nothing.
I would sooner believe in Father Christmas, UFOs, the Loch Ness monster and the Easter Bunny. Even though the evidence is thin, it is still more believable than any of the senior players facing true justice.
Has zero to do with the government. The post Office is a private company.
i cannot express the pain, frustration, disgust and real anger i feel about the behaviour of not only the post office senior staff, but also the government officials responsible for this outrageous crime. I hope i speak for the people when i say, prison sentences must be imposed, todo anything else will not only reinforce the idea of a two tier society in the UK, but will push our country a step closer to a tyrannical state owned by the rich.
Ed davey was the one that was responsible for government ignorance. At the time and still playing ignorant. But we are talking about a bloke that doesn't know what a woman is
Well, we don't impose prison sentences without a preceding trial. The passage of time makes me believe proving things about specific individuals beyond a reasonable doubt is going to be difficult.
But I wish them good luck. And I think it quite easy to prove the CEO lied to Parliament, so she definitely needs some time behind bars for that.
@@dizwell I share your concern. Also with all the publicity surrounding this case it's going to be difficult to find an impartial jury.
the rich truly rule the country, always have and always will , the only way is revolution, and the British are not revolutionaries'
Its not just one teeny weeney lie or mistatement. It is a pattern of lying perjury and deception resulting in ruined careers and lives. Triple damages what is called Punitive damages to signal to the succophants that there ARE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES for such egregious behavior.
Thugs in suits sums it up doesn't it ...are you listening Mr Bradshaw POL investigator
Government Gansters
So, all they cared about was protecting the brand, it seems they wished to collude in blocking redress, while protesting that they knew nothing.
They've not only ultimately trashed the brand but have created a shitstorm and hopefully long jail sentences, fines and losses of pension.
I think they started with the fear that announcing the system could not be trusted would leave all post office subject to fraud, as any malign actor could steal what they wanted while the system for cash tracking was unreliable. So I can understand the case for secrecy at the beginning, whilst you rush to fix the system.
But knowing what they knew, why on earth did they allow post master to be accused and prosecuted based on evidence they knew could be utterly false. And carrying on the cover up for years and years. And they didn't fix the system. The mind boggles at the levels of ineptitude and dishonesty.
No, not even the brand, just protecting themselves.
Rotten to the core.
it like the police if they do not want to know .they will do every thing they can to make sure they will not know.and if you try a little harder they call it harrasment.
No wonder Jo Swinson lost her seat, the public were way ahead of the game on this
Pure wickedness.
Susan crichton deserves a long jail sentence
The rot runs right to the core...
I'm thinking there's a score of government ministers who were involved in this malpractice who are now busy deleting any incriminating evidence against them, Ed Davey is just one of many I expect.
Every message has 2 ends and every message has been recorded as Julian Assange's situation can substantiate. Just try getting it though.
i emailed that knob and told him what i think of him after reading his respoces to alan.i thought he said people lied to him at the post office .looks to like he was lying and directly avoided talking to alan.snubing him many times .any tory here saying it all of them .i recormend you got to the finishing sentence written by alan .he said present goverment and hoped for a new one might help him.
@@DavidJohnson-yg8qm Like the COVID msgs.
The Tories have been desperate to smear Ed Davey and ignore that very many Tory ministers have been in post since him when the situation was much more well known and as we hear here, were clearly colluding with the post office in covering things up.
They don’t destroy evidence, they hide it on military bases until they need it.
The British people must never again trust their government and legal system. Anyone in government and the post office and Fujitsu who knew these prosecutions were false and kept silent must be sacked and imprisoned for at least 20 years.
"The British people must never again trust their government and legal system"
This case is a corrupt case with scumbags covering their own backs.. Im sure there are plenty more out there similar to this case.
But get a grip...
Has nothing to do with the Government. The Post Office is a private company.
@@vegasmike You are wrong. The Royal Mail was sold off and is a private company. The Post Office remain, partially, in government hands. You're another clueless criminal apologist making false comments to muddy the waters. Now go away and play with your toys.
@@vegasmike The Post Office was given the right to conduct criminal prosecutions, and used the power of the government to subjugate and silence those who they unfairly targeted with little oversight from authorities that should have protected these sub-postmasters from them.
Also, The Post Office is *not* a private company, it is a corporation owned by the Department for Business and Trade, Royal Mail is a private company that handles courier services for The Post Office and a range of other courier companies as a 'last mile' carrier.
how did the justice system not notice some thing cant be right for 20 years and they still be doing it for another 20 years if it was not for alan and the jsa groups bravery .alan deserves a medal not a knighthood there not given for bravery they given for services to tory .or an award that independant of the tory and international for services to humanity ..
The treatment Alan and all the rest of them received is standard for a corporate company, they will lie lie lie right to your face and never admit they were wrong. This normally works, but with Alan’s tenacity they will soon be some justice, Vennells is a vicar as well, such duplicity from a CEO and a lady of the cloth, they and her in particularly should be made to repay all bonuses they received and be imprisoned.
i guess we can not trust the taking of the donation tray in her church of england.
Deceit, skullduggery, self preservation…where to stop. Appalling is not strong enough a word. The words I should use would cause my comment to be censored. People have died due to this abhorrent shambles. Pathetic.
Bravo Mr Bates and thank you PJ for posting🙏🙏🙏
it happening here in real time youtube are removing blocking or stopping people replying to comments if it showing decent to the p.o. and tory rule and the justice system .i started keeping records of it over and over .
'The Banality of Evil' is perfectly illustrated by the actions of all involved.
Lock PO & Fujitsu execs involved up Now.
we got more chance of youtube farming our reactions showing decent to tory mate and jailing us
we got more chance going to jail for showing decent to tory .they been blocking people comments and what they cant block they dissalow a reply
we be on remand from the arrest they never let us free again untill sentenced served or maybe not served at all just kept with out charge .we have a few enemy of the tory sitting in jail.
They stole all their assets and money too, knowingly , and with intent . That's the worst of it . Not one second will any of them be in custody for it ,even though it's beyond any type of doubt ,reasonable or otherwise.
I wonder if the European Court of Human Rights has any jurisdiction over this scandal?
They soon won’t when the extreme tories get their way.
Haven’t you been reading or listening to the news? They’re bleating about leaving the ECHR now.
Our politicians would just ignore it and the public would support the politicians because it's called European.
@@Ghengiskhansmum but we cant trust the tory in a court of justice .it been proven right here .
God damn them.
looks at the moment paula hoping "her god" Mammon will protect her .i like to call him the tory party.
I think the public are angry. Heads will need to roll.
Yes-it is shameful and maybe a lot more will come out of this even at this late date. If there are any decent people left in Mi5, this case and its tentacles should be their number 1 priority.
I doubt that Paula Vennells has any understanding of her evil or of the outrage that her evil has caused.
IMAGINE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OTHER PARTS OF GOVERNMENT.
Has zero to do with the government. The post Office is a private company.
i think we need not imagine .we need to start listenig to the alans of this world and not the tory or the media.we not safe even here the ways youtube of gone to silence us and not even know it iis going to far on this subject to notice what side youtube is on.
seems we do that have to imagine much.
Lock up Paula Vennells!!
If as we understand that this is now under police investigation, it surely can’t be that long before Vennells is arrested. Love it if while she’s giving evidence to the enquiry live in a few weeks, plain clothes officers arrive to cuff her and take her away. That’d make great tv.
be carefull showing direct dssent to tory rule .youtube might find a way to lock you up for it.
The government need to be held accountable too , brushed under the carpet again
it not tory seem to think they got away with it but they forgotten .WE KNOW WHAT THEY DID .
You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off
Until these people go jail this is just a pantomime
-How much of our Corrupt MP's did know that the Post Office had gone Rouge, How many??
I think this inquiry should now be stopped and criminal proceeds should start immediately.
The people who were at the top of the Post Office and their Liars (sorry, Lawyers, an easy mistake to make) should be in jail.
We need to see Post Office executives and their lying lawyers and investigators serving jail time for this and heavy compensation for their victims and the families of lost victims.
thugs in suits.
perfect summation sir.
How horrible and disgusting millions and millions of pounds in damages!
No one in this class of crook ever goes to prison. They should but they won't.
After the investigation by Second sight in 2013 and the reporting of the findings to Paula Vennells, she terminated the contract. Did Paula act alone on this decision or was this on the advice of her employer, the government?
Paula Vennells' terminating of the Second Sight investigation tells me all I need to know about her.
No limit to what a determined man can achieve.
we many enemy of tory proffit sitting in jails with out charge .he almost one of them.
The government doesn’t care about the harm done to the people who gave them the job they have.
no one voted for a sunek to be pm.no one voted for cameron to have a seat in house of commons .at least it two things the tory cant throw in our faces and claim this is what we voted for .
Talking about protecting the "brand". The " brand " of the Church of England is now tainted and shown to be corrupt and hypocritical by Paula Vennells. Allowing such a woman to stand up and preach morality and compassion. .. yeah right!
The stench of rottenness is almost suffocating.
it always been this limit you just not noticed untill your tasting it.
One thing that should happen is there needs to be an Anton Pillar order made against the civil service, and investigators go in with what's effectively a search warrant to get all the emails, all the documents. That's then reconciled with what's been supplied. Any discrepancies checked, and people dealt with.
Will there be an inquiry on the behavior of mp’s will they be criminally be held responsible.
Agree, arise Sir Alan, off to prison with Venells and the others, including POL's lawyers.
in one letter they called him Bates' not Mr or Alan Bates and that shows the contempt ! and then Paula Vennells called herself PV as if she is some kind of rock star ! only jail for these scum will be justice
what is a pv google not help me :P
@@andydudley1775 that’s her name Paula Vennels
@@robertovers1863 ah ty im stupid lol
All those at the post office and in the government who colluded to have innocent people punished simply to keep the money machine going, all need to be charged and end up in court.
Bless his darling heart ❤️ a true gentleman xx
worthless to the tory his work counted as nothing and the criminals been rewarded .not just paid .
@@andydudley1775 …his integrity still stands despite the ‘Torrys’ efforts to destroy him and the rest of the country, time for a change xx
Fujitsu now handling the bid for UK's Digital ID? Sick!
This KC is a legend ...a true assasin in silks
Who is the minister, what’s his name, he swore an oath to be a member of parliament, they also had sponsors present for taking the oath. It’s about time the value of swearing the oath, is held accountable.
Post office corruption case - end result who’s liable and going to prison for fraud . It’s not difficult shouldn’t be this long winded.
Busted! 😜
i can never understand why the heads of large organisation that commit crimes get off scot free. the buck stops at those that have been lied to, which is a perversion of natural justice.
Of course the Government has let the Sub Postmasters down but also the British people trust has been lost in our institutions & to give Venells an honour after doubts had been raised is despicable Sunak still hasn't got this sorted
Has zero to do with the government. The post Office is a private company.
sunek sorted it out the 100 million of tax payers money given to the P.O. for court fee's should of ended alan and the jfsa .the knigthood should of secured the cherry on the top for puala.
sunek signed off 100 million of our money for legal aid to make sure this was walked over and the victims priced out of justice .for the .p.o. when the victims had to find there own money to prove inacence.this is how the tory get things done.he should be made to ask why he did that.and never be allowed any where near a crime he part of .how dare he pretend not to know .stand there a bullshit the entire nation with a grin on his stupid face behind dead eyes again.
PO are still not disclosing thr materials they are supposed. Why are we still paying the post office salaries let allow bonuses?
And they still haven’t learned anything 😢
Paula Vennells is incapable of learning anything. That is why she rejected being told that the Horizon system was faulty.
well they know exacty how much evidence we got .rats leaving the sinking ships and hiding in churches .secret tapes being leaked .they will try to throw lessor guilty people to the wolves .and we find a P.O. ceo coloney living in argentina for sure.my god there a lot of them.
Is this how our government works? How pathetic,the PO answers to the government. The sub postmasters did everything right and no-one helped,who the fuck was asleep at the wheel when these people called the"help line?" God love Alan Bates stepping up to fight the good fight❤ Who would've thought it's a 20 yr fight,how the hell is that possible???
It appears POL is the leader in corporate asymmetric contracting. The divide and conquer strategy of the gig economy where people who should be employees are turned into subcontactors so the corporation can divest itself of all moral and personal responsibility and ensure total obedience to the exercise of coercive power. Many corporates still do this .. with the connivance of government functionaries and the legal system that are appointed and paid to protect people against exploitation and uphold the rule of law. If it is still happening with POL then it is certainly happening throughout the gig economy. Shame.
If Alan Bates needs crowdfunding to bring about private prosecutions then I will be contributing and I WILL WAVE TO ALL I KNOW WHO THINK EXACTLY THE SAME AS ME
Dear, oh fucking dear.
The minister went behind his back to help the PO respond.
The civil servants involved need to be investigated. This is the antithesis of good practice. If they feel they are there to undermine the public in such cases, we will need to scrap the civil service completely and start again.
No one will get punished, no one will get justice, highly doubt they’ll get money. Gov and PO are going to do to them what’s already been done to others: ignore the problem long enough and then they start dying.
Fujitsu needs to pay the compensation not the tax payer then prison sentencing needs to happen.
I am at a loss to understand why the post office employees, post office lawyers and counsel, and the relevant civil servants who have quite obviously perverted the course of justice and in many cases committed perjury in the convictions against SPM s are not being arrested and charged now by the Met police.
Why does this have to wait for the end of the enquiry. The evidence is clearly all there and seems rock solid. Can someone explain please.
i do it been an admittence to the court are broken and the goverment and .p.o are not infalible and above the law .
The reason not to prosecute them as there is enough evidence to do so is it will open up a can of worms with how many were involved in the cover up including government ministers that the usual police inquiry will take place which will take an eternity to conclude as past inquiries with the supposed elite involved have proved to be the case using time to let it fade into the mist?
why not let a JURY sort this out ..... we are getting bogged down with over 20 years of lies and paper work
ALL CONVICTIONS must be quashed and the accused compensated as any conviction must be treated as an unsafe conviction
Corrupt government and politicians, corrupt business, corrupt solicitors and you end up with the post office scandal.
Mr Bates is thoroughly deserving an honor...he should again be offered one after the inquiry concludes, perhaps an OBE or similar, although I totally get why should he decline
All involved ,that have proven to have lied ,ignored deliberately blatent evidence, and the lawyers and judge should all be jailed!!!!
the jails wont have the room for them all!!
I’m of the opinion government wanted it under the carpet because of the post office sale.
"a government hands off approach" words spoken by the post office minister. You could not get more absurd than that.
ANYONE who genuinely and knowingly allowed innocent people's lives to be ruined belongs in prison. (Obviously, only if they had the power to do something to prevent it)
The Post office is a 'dead duck'.I won't forget those words in a hurry by Alan Bates giving evidence today. 😂
I want to know why fujitsu had a secret department that could interfere with the post office, who benefits from that?
First move could be to look at all the bonuses that were give to the top of post office and Fujitsu management, and give it to the people effected this should be Tax free and not effect the amount due as compensation. This may help with Solicitor cost incurred by the victims of this disgraceful scandle.!!!
Billion pound contracts.think we will find politician at top of the cover up pyramid. But they will play the blame game better than the po. Team
Only thing was the brand. Of post office. There care about brand post office. And Fujitsu as for seen as. Little people fight back
Also known as the Poo Office and Poo-Jitsu.
dont listen to the brand which of the church of england or the brand of the ceo's who using a corp name to hide behind .a name did not take people to court illegaly .that took an entire goverment of people .and was still making money sending people to jail hand over fist "STILL"very robustly untill the itv programe .
All hot air, i am convinced that not one of the senior managers or their Investigators will face justice , meanwhile the Post Office can see no problem in spending millions of taxpayers cash on extremely expensive lawyers to defend what is in effect indefensible, they sre guilty , they know they are guilty , we know they are guilty but that won't stop the government and the civil service doing their best to get these crooks off the hook, it is up to the press and the population to make sure that does not happen.
Bosses, bonuses, lying in commission and still out. Impunity of class...
We're moving to a phase where the main players seek to pile all the blame on one individual, called the SPOB. Single point of blame.
That will be Vennels. You can already see the Lib Dem mps doing this. Get ready for a master class from Crozier later this week.
Have all the people jailed been released yet?
depends we got people serving time enemy of the tory with no charge and no release date .
Getting harder and harder to see this as anything other than attempting to pervert the course of justice from the post office.
why we still calling it the P.O. it people who put people in jail.and the tory have shown us our worth.
Thanks for this video.
We now know that the system could be & very likely was accessed by horizon employees but why is nobody asking who did it & why.
“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."
The Post Office...A name you can trust 😂😂😂😂😂
Hmmm. Swinson suddenly doesn't look so innocent now either.
I trust no one will be buying Fujitsu
This interogation seems to be choregraphed, asking Mr Bates to respond to questions he had not been given in advance, remember every detail. Its the govt and the po that should be on trial not Mr Bates.
Another one for jail.
It's important that those of us who are infuriated by this debacle keep the interest alive because you may rest assured that the 'powers that be' are relying on the fact that the focus will 'fall off' (hunan nature) as time goes on.
Even the assignation of JFK diluted from full focus over a number of months (certainly from an international point of view), but we can't allow this to happen in this case. Retribution.
The media will be going through a list of scandals to take our minds off the one before .this been a tory plan for 14 years .can you remember what should of been the 1 st reason to boot this goverment out of office .was it brexit im not sure it been so long and so many
I think we need a Mr bates versus PO 2. Then a national movement to get real justice. People have to demand justice or society will continue to go downwards.
all to ensure FUJITSU got contracts ...some mps and civil servents are ON THE TAKE
Alan Bates said that Sir Ed Davie was Totally Unhelpful when he asked for help in Resolving the issue.
im sure he did not know he was avoiding questions to know.but he got his reward that knighthood will give him power and position.
the bbc should not be given the right to claim it a news channel any more .how many years did they decide this was not news worthy .i think they got a cheek if you ask me .
Around the 2:06 mark when Mr Bates reply was "I don't recall" was that a dig?
One wonders how Paula V is prepping..,