'We stand up for the little guys,' she said. Coming from a member of a party that continues to behave in the most corrupt way, in order to further the interests and the fortunes of their wealthy friends and supporters, I'm afraid that the crocodile tears don't wash.
There's an old poem from the 1600's about this "The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common But leaves the greater villain loose Who steals the common from off the goose. The law demands that we atone When we take things we do not own But leaves the lords and ladies fine Who take things that are yours and mine. The poor and wretched don't escape If they conspire the law to break; This must be so but they endure Those who conspire to make the law. The law locks up the man or woman Who steals the goose from off the common And geese will still a common lack Till they go and steal it back." Anon, sometime in the 1600's In this case the law locked up the men and women who didn't even steal anything, but the people responsible got promoted, extra government contracts, and even medals.
Hang on a minute, I thought marxism was invented five minutes ago by woke lefty trans right activists? Do you mean to say this has been going on for 400 years?
Yes. The English enclosure movement, probably known as kleptocracy these days. The poem describes the state of the world even today, especially when we see the commons (ie public land, hills, forests, rivers, coastal waters, islands and other public property that belongs to everyone) being sold for a pittance, privatised, stolen or seized with impunity. All for the so called entitled elitists.
In UK, the legal aid budget has been cut to the bone by successive governments. And you only have to look at any civil or criminal cases, and know that the deeper your pocket, the better lawyer or lawyers you can have, and at the very least, drag the case on and on.
I've seen multiple cases against companies dropped because the council or police ran out of cash for prosecution. Definitely a feature rather than a bug.
Did i really just hear a Tory MP claim 'We stand up for the little guys'. It's like she isn't aware her party has a track record of doing the exact opposite.
No one can trust this bunch ,lying,cheating no vision Tory party.they do no one except the rich any favours. They detest the lower orders..it’s quite evident..our public services are a disgrace and it will get beyond salvaging for long.
Well, maybe he isn't quite as unique as you suggest. But I do concur wholeheartedly with the sentiment. As familiar as I am, I was stunned with his ridiculous attempt to paint it in some sort of positive or even equitable light. I rewatched it, to make sure I was grocking his drift correctly. These people really do inhabit an entirely different world to the rest of us Hoi Poloi. They very often appear delusional or completely out of touch. Why, I wonder do they assume that they understand and can identify? Dunning Kruger effect? Or merely arrogance? Not that they are in any way exclusive. Likely pretty inclusive.
A rare case of a miscarriage of justice coming to light while it's still sortable. Has been going on for a long time,and people have known,and nothing was done.
@@timwoodger7896 "empathy disordered" is a kind way of saying "sociopathic" or "psychopathic." Every single Tory politician and voter has proven themselves to be in need of psychological evaluation. How anyone could think a vacuous stooge like Davies is suitable for government is lost on me.
@@holdmusic_ indeed 👍 there is a empathy scale and it has been proven through brain scans that those with low to no empathy vote to the right and those with higher empathy vote to the left. I wouldn’t say all Tory voters lack empathy totally but when you consider 65% of all people are apathic and 30% are empathic that leaves 5% with no empathy. It’s very easy for sociopaths to manipulate apathic people with lies Usually with fear and pretending they are the saviours. Fear fear but don’t fear because I will save you. It’s quite a trick. They also make out that those with empathy are crazy because of it Hence the “ loony left”
When you pay some attention: "The system is broken and needs to be fixed." When you pay enough attention: "The system is working exactly as intended and needs to be destroyed."
Post Office should be stripped of its ability to prosecute as they appear to have ignored CPIA 1996. When I say ignored they have deliberately circumvented it. The decision to prosecute will have been made by identifiable individuals who should be held accountable. Heads must roll.
@@MrTidymarkyes Dale True Blue no matter what they do and that is repugnant and gravely wrong. This little guy is a nonsense reason as to must retain ECHR
Ian Dale completely misses the blindingly obvious point that "the little guy" shouldn't have to battle against such appalling injustice in the first place. His remark is idiotic and reveals just how tory ideology lacks empathy and morality.
No it's okay, 30p Lee has made it clear it's ALL Ed Davies fault. If you ignore every Conservative and Labour post office minister who has also held the post, it's all on him!!!
however, that doesn't mean we should believe everything we see & hear on tv! especially if it's about jeremy corbyn, who should have an opinion on the post office scandal!
Or maybe the British public only understand or become aware of a Problem when it's turned into a TV drama. After all, the politicians respond to their constituents. This has been known about since 2009 and it hasn't stopped people voting Tory. Time to stop blaming the politicians and start looking in the mirror.
Just a thought on the Post Office scandal. In 2010 an average of 2 post offices were being closed each week and thousands have been shut down since the Horizon scandal started. Could this have been done intentionally to speed up the closures and avoid paying out redundancies? It would be interesting to see if any post offices run by convicted subpostmasters are still up and running. I can't find any details on these online!
We stand up for the little guys" - this has dragged on for more than a decade with initial reports of problems 'appearing in computer magazines since 2009 and the scandal appearing in Private eye since 2013. It's been discussed in parliament since 2015..... and yet that woman, sitting at the head of this corruption, was given an honour in 2019
The best quote I have heard is “the law courts are like the Ritz open to anyone but it’s only the rich that can afford it”. Anything involving the government there’s always an enquiry never a criminal investigation. If it wasn’t for ITV the Post Office scandal would just be swept under the carpet and forgotten about. I very much doubt if those involved in the scandal will be prosecuted. What normally happen in situations like this the corporation will be fined,or in other words the public will be made to pay for the crime. In fact taxpayers money was being used to prosecute the Postmasters.
We're through it at the moment. Having to go to court to get justice for my son, who was negligently treated, and suffered enormously because of it when he was 14.. Facing denial and delay, hoping we will be intimidated and/or run out of money. Disgrace but symptomatic of all these public and private bodies. They say they listen and learn, but from my experience, they do not and aim to cover up and protect each other. Our case has been ongoing for nearly 7 years.
Alan Bates managed to get justice because he found 500 people. What if he'd only found 450? It takes 500 little people to equal one rich person, aparently.
This is definitely not a case of the little man triumphing over the big corporate institutions. It’s 500 little guys, 25 years and a ITV1 prime time TV series with massive viewing ratings that finally shamed the government into talking about this. Despite this they still haven’t got proper compensation for ruined lives. Tell me, how can anybody see this as a triumph for the little man over big corporate institutions Iain ‘Tory’ Dale?. The British justice system is stacked against ordinary people towards the rich and powerful. I always say that you shouldn’t think law and justice are the same thing in this country because they are not.
What really annoys me is the post office and the computer company knew there were faults in the system before it was launched,it was decided to continue with the roll out of the system and try to sort out the bugs whilst it was being used.This was never going to work correctly,seeing as this system is still being used I wonder what the postmaster’s contracts have now been rewritten to exclude the responsibility for paying back shortfalls.
The fact that it has taken this long and needed a tv drama to bring this story to the front pages where now mps are falling over themselves to berate the post office for a little reflected glory tells you all you need to know about justice in the uk.
@@Dynasty1818Lol. Happening under a particular government isn't even relevant, the Post Office has the authority to pursue it's own cases and it was the POs own system that was at fault. Government didn't play a part in that The governments role was when it came to light under the Tories that people had lied about about what happened and certain people involved in that scandal were given a CBE
Ian Dale making out this is the little guy beating the big guy… really??? How has the big guy been beaten? One person has given up their CBE whilst on the other side people have lost their lives, their freedom, their livelihoods etc etc. What a strange way to see the situation
It is now imperative that those that allowed the worst case of a miscarriage of Justice in British history now be arrested under caution, charged and imprisoned. There can be no excuses.
oh my this Tory woman is talking absolute tripe, complete deluded word salad. She talks about not rushing to assumptions , but that’s exactly what the post office did you silly woman. These people are unbelievable. It’s been going on for 20 years ffs.
People are told to protect that name (business/organisation) at all costs but when it comes down to it a name can’t be prosecuted because it has no face. My child with Sen needs was let down by his school he is now 15 and will not be able to do his exams due to unmet disability. The school lied in professional meetings about how he was coping because they wanted to protect the school at the cost over my child’s mental health. Where is the logic in putting a organisation over the lives of people.
I'll be proved wrong about agreeing there's a 2-tier justice system in this country, when I see real consequences for those corporate and government bullies who abuse their power and privileges. This is only one case we're aware of. It's terrifying to think what other scandals are out there or simply been forgotten over time. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on nobody getting the punishment deserved here, relative to their appalling behaviour and destruction of people's lives.
Dodgey computer system exist in all government departments. In HMRC they introduced an auto reconciliation process which makes obvious mistakes, often doubling periods of benefits and sending out letters asking for money that staff know are not accurate. "The onus is on them to check' they say, "you have to let the system do it's thing" they say.
I’m a Canadian railway worker. Here, I am embroiled in a similar situation as the Post Office within the industry which operates on a business model called Precision Scheduled Railway, a comical oxymoron for the ‘precision’ and ‘scheduled’ components. By any other name, this is pure corruption that has contributed to vast destruction and the loss of many lives since its inception. I watch the Post Office scandal with much interest as I correlate many of the same issues here with railways. In North America, these are private companies given an appalling carte blanch by government regulatory agencies to operate completely outside of the law, which is sickening. It strikes me, like the managerial class here, that it is very easy to accuse others of one him or herself is doing, aka gaslighting. Post Office leadership should be investigated for corruption where it accused its subpostmasters. My instinct is that something deeper than malicious incompetence is at play here. The personalities at the head of the Post Office need to be named and shamed as is about to happen with North American rail executives.
Sir Tim Parker was Chairman, and Paula Vennells was CEO while this was going on. He should lose his knighthood at the very least. There are plenty of other Board members who are also culpable.
Nailed. If you move in the correct circles then you get to do whatever you want while always failing upwards. We the working class dont get the luxury. One mistake and you get sacked, one late appointment to the Job Centre and you get sanctioned.
The same applies to local councils ie developers, with large pockets, taking councils to court when councils object to their applications eg when challenging reducing the number of social housing built. The councils cannot afford to defend these cases. Result: the big pockets win every time.
I don’t agree. It’s political and in fact, many applications are prevented by NIMBY councils which actually doesn’t help their budgets and can cause issues with them going bust. Schools struggling to fill places and so on. Planning permissions have never been more costly and more difficult to achieve due to politics. So I completely disagree with that part of your point. The viability stuff with social housing is sometimes true but councils can and do defend all appeals and win 70%+ on average.
How is it that Fujitsu are allowed to install back doors in their software, allowing them access to and the ability to alter highly sensitive and supposedly confidential data?
I was just wishing the Tory would just stop rattling her gums, all she did was say all the things that should happen but never did. Darren is an excellent MP who if you go and watch some of his committee work actually cares about how the working class are treated by those in power.
The way things are in this country I would doubt if any Lawyer, boss, government official or any person that was in a position of power will ever be brought to justice. How can you say that the little guy won, people committed suicide and they all had their and their families lives ruined. This is disgusting and unacceptable but it doesn’t surprise me.
Mims Davies is having a laugh when she says they (politicians) stand up for the little people. It is exactly because a succession of ministers from all parties clearly didn`t stand up for the little people that we have this scandal. Politicians from all sides have been in the pockets of big business for decades now and up till now the PO and Fujitsu executives are unaccountable. We still have the ongoing scandal of the water companies routinely polluting our waterways with raw sewage but the executives of these companies face no punishment and regularly award themselves massive bonuses. We need the government to start holding these criminal companies to account.
He's not, he and his rich buddies have known about this for years, think about the outrage we have all felt since it was all laid out for us by the itv drama - those in power knew exactly what was going on and they let it continue. Now we're all talking about it they want us to shut up so they're giving breadcrumbs and thinking about what they can do to distract us, just as they did with grenfell, partygate and all the other outrageous displays of how little we actually matter
The little guy got one back how cliche that opinion. The UK government gave the post office way too much autonomy in investigating the horizon debacle. Hundreds of people’s lives were destroyed and no government watchdog had the insight to overlook how the Post Office was operating with their investigation. I have so much destain for the entire post office board and the government they never questioned anything the little guy was hung out to dry it’s disgraceful 25 years this has been going on.😡🤬😤😤😡🤬
What should have been a massive red flag when the Post Office scandal occurred was the fact that over 700 people were supposedly stealing money at the same time. Surely that should have made someone question that, and investigate other possibilities such as software fault. Had it been just a few individuals then I could understand the Post Office assuming they were possibly on the take and stealing money, but not over 700 people, that's just a massive red flag that there were other issues, one being a software glitch.
That is very true. But British business is run by massive self promoting egotistical characters, who aren't bothered about any human. The human is just a statistic, a number of digits on the company payroll.
Your point is very valid and that is why this stinks of government collusion. In a normal business a big increase in small scale possible offences, often from previously reliable staff, would indicate a system or training fault. Why therefore would the post office investigators have stuck their own noses out to actively bully/lie to and fit up the post masters. It must have been pressure from very high up. This reeks of state criminality. As does the gong for the CEO and the almost no talk at all of action against the Post Office management.
There wasn’t “a” red flag saying 700 fraudulent postmasters - it was deliberately 700 red flags of 1 postmaster at a time This is the insidious truth - it was a conscious decision to gaslight the victims here
We need honest people running our country, The problem is we haven't. There's probably a Law out there somewhere that says If you are an MP you will be exempt from prosecution.
It's called political immunity. The prime minister is protected from prosecution even if it means lying to parliament based on false information and killing millions of innocent people like in Iraq. The UK political system is messed up.
So the majority of SPMs decided to commit fraud when the PO introduced a computer system to detect that fraud. The amount of individuals highlighted would have been known to PO. This should have raised a red flag that had to be investigated & not from a presumption of guilt on the part of the SPMs.
So far… History says, Don’t hope On this side of the grave, But then, once in a lifetime The longed-for tidal wave Of justice can rise up And hope and history rhyme. S.Heaney
Re imbalanced accountability - it took the tory govt; via Gove, a week approx to give £69M to Michelle Mone for her useless PPE, which she still has. The inquiry into the 'post office scandal' is now over 3 years old & has yet to be resolved
At its peak there were over 9,000 Post Office Local branches being operated as franchises of sorts by private retailers. The new owners (post 2011 privatisation) ended the franchise arrangement because they hoped that people would just travel further and use official post offices, internalising the small profits previously made by corner shops and mini markets. Just another case of privatisation gone wrong. Still waiting for a successful example because it can't be just ravenous shareholders, could it?
"You can look at it that way, but you can also look at it as the little guy winning over the corporate power". Ian is truly shameful. "The little guy"... 700 of them! 30 years later, multiple suicides later, after destroying their lifes (job, reputation, employability, loans, ...). And only when another corporation decided to profit from it.
@@Dynasty1818 boring, I am not even voting Labour myself, no amount of partisan brained whataboutery changes the fact the the Tories support that the least. Also, objectively, Labour has a larger share of working class votes, although they represent those interests less and less these days, still much more representative than a party of privately educated posh boys led by a billionaire richer than the King, who boasts about diverting funds from deprived areas to rich areas, scraps inheritance tax during a cost of living crisis and who uses any and all situations to further enrich their chums. If you cared about working people in reality, you wouldn't be simping for them, how did they get you? Was it scapegoating some powerless minority for the results of BS you voted for again?
Piper Alpha, Hillsborough, Grenfell, The Post Office…all examples of those without power having to fight with everything they have over DECADES to get a semblance of justice.
The establishment has dragged this out for as long as possible in the callous hope that many of the 732 victims will have died off by the time any resolution happens. The same happened with the tainted blood scandal; forty years on and it still hasn’t been satisfactorily resolved.
Oli Dugmore is increasing the voice of reason. PoliticsJOE is excellent as is his work on LBC. He has both youthful energy and knowledge on his side. Hats off big style.
Nobody answered what would have been the outcome if the 500 cases could not have been found and the civil case had not gone ahead. What other course would have been open to these victims? Also it seems that we shall very soon find out who recommended the CBE and in the same way Vennells pre-empted being stripped of it maybe the misguided person/people would do well to own up now?
This seems to be a common problem everywhere... I live in the US and took "mandatory training" at my company yesterday where I learned (again since I have to take it EVERY YEAR) that things like insider trading and bribery are illegal and I'll go to jail if I engage in them... yet in Washington the politicians fight anything that might limit their ability to use insider trading to profit off their elected seats... and we have leaders openly in the news pitching quid pro quo's as a way to advance their personal or political positions. And apparently we're all supposed to just shrug and say "oh well".
First caller was spot on. Whoever has more money is most likely to win in a court. Not exactly what you call justice is it. Also, the postmasters may be winning in the end but it should never have got to that should it.
Every conviction that used the computer system as evidence, is unsafe. They should all be released and the evidence re-evaluated, which should squash 99.9% of them. Investigations should also be made into what the post office knew, when and why it went through unlawful prosecutions when they knew the evidence was faulty.
@@Dynasty1818 Nope, that's you putting words at my fingertips which I did not say. So please kindly step away from the keyboard and have a think about why you wished to put words at someone else's fingertips, and what that says about you as a person.
@@KidarWolf Oh please. You're an LBC listener, so pro-Labour all day every day. Anyone whining about a government here is suggesting Labour will do better, which is moronic. And as usual, you whine about the Tories for something outside of their control. In this case, Labour let this happen. And you're whining about a Tory spokesperson here. You should be ripping Labour's apart but nah, as usual, "Tories innit".
@@Dynasty1818 That's a bold assumption - I actually don't like any of the political choices in the UK at present, I think they're all awful, and it's a case of choosing the lesser of many evils. So again, you're placing words at my fingertips which I had not actually typed. Do you have nothing better to do than to be upset over imaginary slights? How terribly sad for you. Might I suggest a hobby?
The Government has presided over a culture of contempt for working people that have not inherited enormous amounts of money & privilege ,they also rewarded people that have slimed their way up the greasy pole plus Starmer did nothing Ed Davey turned his back & the Law is Lazy
The bulk of the compensation, such as it is and for those who've got it so far, is being swallowed up in legal fees. The "little people" may have been vindicated reputationally, but only partly, and they are not being anything like adequately compensated, most of them not yet at all.
If it’s OK for postmasters to go to jail over this then let’s have the real culprits doing time. Purjury alone will Do for starters and the barristers investigated that represented to PO too.
Let's get one thing straight here. There is one reason and one reason only why she handed it back, she was shamed into it by 1.2 million people. How to go from nearly commiting the perfect crime to being the most despised person in the country.
There are innumerable scandals in the UK. This country is finished. We can't build scholls, railways, roads without it taking years but the big business people get millions. The little guy hardly ever wins as he or she is poorly educated, misdirected and diverted from getting into politics. We live under Capitalism, a system of rich getting richer and foreign wars being essential. And this is what we see. Politicians only show concern when a disaster happens or when they get caught out.
It is the most OBVIOUS statement on the planet. Of course justice and peoples rights depends on how big your pockets are. As Ollie listed all of those disasters from Piper Alpha to Grenfell to now the Post Office even if people get a judgement in their favour it still takes years to receive any money !!
As a British woman who went to live in the Caribbean for 28 years, and came back, its crystal clear that the UK is still very much a Plantation to the upper 'class' elite., from its tools of its masters, to its psychological conditioning of its native people with media. No wonder they are intolerant of immigrants and Europeans, they resist such colonial mindset. And now Brexit has effectively restricted movement of the plantation workers off the plantation. It wouldn't surprise me that learning languages gets dropped at some point from the national curriculum or dimminish.
Whats frightening is that the postmasters were prosecuted outside of the CPS, by their own team. Likewise TV licencing, RSPCA, DWP and many others are able to bring their prosecutions. Archaic!!!
After twenty years of known issues with Horizon and years of reporting, I've found the fact that now people are very concerned is a bit of a joke. But "Or you can look at it well this was the little guy actually triumphing in the end it's taken a long time but triumphing over the big corporate institution"? Really? A handful of cases addressed, pitiful compensation, people dying before having their names cleared and the only reason there's any movement now is they've lucked out that ITV has decided to make a series. The police have had years to do something, so has the government. If this is the speed the little guy gets action when dozens of people have been unjustly incarcerated imagine what's happening when your fight isn't being turned into a drama. And even now, with all the newly outraged reporters people still don't seem to understand how this destroyed lives. That's years of living with a record. Being exonerated doesn't get back the money you lost because of that record and those sentences. It's a moral victory but you've still been financially damaged meaning the government should be talking about compensation. A process that May and Gavin Williamson made virtually impossible for the average wrongfully convicted citizen incidentally. That's why the numbers of people receiving compensation for false imprisonment has functionally stopped over the last few years but that's not an ITV drama yet so no one cares about that. It's also not even addressing the people who went into their own pockets to make up non existent shortfalls to avoid prison. The post office essentially extorted citizens, pay us money or we'll destroy your life. How many people haven't come forward yet to talk about those years of being ostracized or living abroad to avoid the scandal? Then they took that ill gotten wealth, knowing full well the software didn't work, and aren't just keeping it. No they're using those resources to fight their victims so lawyers are seeing the bulk of the compensation. And it's likely the remaining sub post-masters and post-mistresses, who have possibly already been required to make up shortfalls, will end up footing part of the bill if an actual compensation scheme starts running. And Dale thinks this is what "the little guy actually triumphing in the end" should look like?
"We stand up for the little guys" - and yet this has been going on for 24 years and something is only happening now because of the negative publicity via the TV series.
We are in a situation where in the eyes of the state, (King Charles, the responsibility comes with the title), corporate bodies and those that walk in the corridors of power can leave a path of destruction, littered with the bodies of the innocent and they receive little more than a frown of disapproval from the courts or regulatory bodies for the utter ruination of countless lives. Compare that to the prosecution, guilty verdict and sentencing of an autistic woman who, whilst not in control of her own finances due to her difficulties, didnt pay for a TV license. The question of if there is a two tier justice system is clear and obvious and will only be denied by those that sit on top of the pile hoping it remains that way. The new anti protest laws and anti strike laws are there to beat us down and criminalize us all if we ever found the collective courage to say no more we've had enough.
What was that opening take Iain? 20 years of fighting to get next to nothing in terms of compensation but now MP's have noticed it while its the hot story this week somehow they've won and beaten the big corporation? Noone responsible is going to jail for this. There is no way to look at the struggle these people are still going through and say "yay they won, lets change the story."
I have been told that I may have been betrayed and in the right but I couldn’t afford the legal charges to win any litigation so Lies led to me becoming homeless My mother lost her home due to a £25 Debt that Sue Essex and Clare Short tried to get the scandal sorted out that made my mother homeless but couldn’t If we had been able to afford legal charges the outcome would have been different sadly the legal profession are not concerned with justice only their fees
A question that needs answering is were the Horizon Shortfalls deliberately targeted at certain Post Offices using Fujitsu's back door access. It seems quite a coincidence that Michael Rudkin from the Federation of SubPostmasters should visit Fujitsu and find out about this back door only the Post Office run by his wife to suffer such a shortfall the next day. It's almost as if he was targeted! I wonder how many of the Post Offices that suffered a shortfall were on the Post Offices closure list, or were run by Sub Postmasters who were regarded as being trouble makers by the Contracts Manager. In other words the shortfalls were created deliberately for Corporate gain in many cases.
I think there should be a drama done to show how thr withdrawal of legal aid has affected little people. They could pick 6 different cases where you now cant get legal aid and do a 6 part series.
'We stand up for the little guys,' she said. Coming from a member of a party that continues to behave in the most corrupt way, in order to further the interests and the fortunes of their wealthy friends and supporters, I'm afraid that the crocodile tears don't wash.
Exactly my thoughts!
It’s like Harold shipman saying he was just trying to help.
There is no legal aid.♥️🌻🙏🧑🏻🦼
To be fair, she was talking in the context of being an MP and doing constituency work
@@MikeRyan-vd1qw Then irrelevant to this discussion.
There's an old poem from the 1600's about this
"The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose.
The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine.
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break;
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law.
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back."
Anon, sometime in the 1600's
In this case the law locked up the men and women who didn't even steal anything, but the people responsible got promoted, extra government contracts, and even medals.
Hang on a minute, I thought marxism was invented five minutes ago by woke lefty trans right activists? Do you mean to say this has been going on for 400 years?
Yes. The English enclosure movement, probably known as kleptocracy these days. The poem describes the state of the world even today, especially when we see the commons (ie public land, hills, forests, rivers, coastal waters, islands and other public property that belongs to everyone) being sold for a pittance, privatised, stolen or seized with impunity.
All for the so called entitled elitists.
I recommend the short poem/fable 'The Animals Stricken with the Plague' by Jean de La Fontaine
@@JoelJoel321I just searched and read it. Thank you and best wishes.
@@angr3819 you're welcome!
The evidence of a 2 tiered system is that no one will go to prison for this.
Lessons will be learnt.
Or face any real punishment.
People responsible will need to pay for 24/7 365 personal security and pay them well...
Someone might go to prison but no one with power
The lesson learned: Add an extra coat of white wash next time.
In UK, the legal aid budget has been cut to the bone by successive governments. And you only have to look at any civil or criminal cases, and know that the deeper your pocket, the better lawyer or lawyers you can have, and at the very least, drag the case on and on.
Yet the illegals get lawyers for free.
I've seen multiple cases against companies dropped because the council or police ran out of cash for prosecution. Definitely a feature rather than a bug.
The Tories designed it to work out like this.
Legal aid for illegal immigrants doesn't help either
@waynegodwin426 neither does public funding for Boris Johnson's fanciful Partygate defence .
How did Johnson manage to gain access to taxpayer money to defend the indefensible at Partygate ???? Rubs salt in a very deep wound
Did i really just hear a Tory MP claim 'We stand up for the little guys'. It's like she isn't aware her party has a track record of doing the exact opposite.
how many little guys died in the grenfell tower block
No one can trust this bunch ,lying,cheating no vision Tory party.they do no one except the rich any favours.
They detest the lower orders..it’s quite evident..our public services are a disgrace and it will get beyond salvaging for long.
@@garyowen4112how many died through forced austerity, that number is 10,000+...
Maybe she personally stands up for her constituents!
It was a Tory MP who was instrumental in helping the victims get justice and trying to hold the PO to account.
Only Ian Dale could try to paint this story as the little guy winning…
Well, maybe he isn't quite as unique as you suggest. But I do concur wholeheartedly with the sentiment. As familiar as I am, I was stunned with his ridiculous attempt to paint it in some sort of positive or even equitable light. I rewatched it, to make sure I was grocking his drift correctly.
These people really do inhabit an entirely different world to the rest of us Hoi Poloi. They very often appear delusional or completely out of touch.
Why, I wonder do they assume that they understand and can identify?
Dunning Kruger effect? Or merely arrogance? Not that they are in any way exclusive. Likely pretty inclusive.
A rare case of a miscarriage of justice coming to light while it's still sortable.
Has been going on for a long time,and people have known,and nothing was done.
@@tonytricks "while it's still sortable." - That only makes it more painful when it won't get sorted.
Not sortable for the deceased, divorced, broken and bankrupt.
@@slayerrocks2 no,it isn't
Just absolutely no compassion from the tory. She sat there and made an election speech.
That’s the problem with the empathy disordered. They lack emotional intelligence and a real sense of reality. “ it’s all about me”.
@@timwoodger7896 "empathy disordered" is a kind way of saying "sociopathic" or "psychopathic." Every single Tory politician and voter has proven themselves to be in need of psychological evaluation. How anyone could think a vacuous stooge like Davies is suitable for government is lost on me.
Just looking out for her own as always, look how they rallied behind James Cleverly
@@holdmusic_ indeed 👍 there is a empathy scale and it has been proven through brain scans that those with low to no empathy vote to the right and those with higher empathy vote to the left. I wouldn’t say all Tory voters lack empathy totally but when you consider 65% of all people are apathic and 30% are empathic that leaves 5% with no empathy. It’s very easy for sociopaths to manipulate apathic people with lies
Usually with fear and pretending they are the saviours. Fear fear but don’t fear because I will save you. It’s quite a trick. They also make out that those with empathy are crazy because of it
Hence the “ loony left”
She did what all Tories do; tried to exploit a situation where they've messed up into someone else's fault.
When you pay some attention: "The system is broken and needs to be fixed."
When you pay enough attention: "The system is working exactly as intended and needs to be destroyed."
A great summary of where we find ourselves!
yesssssss this is the way
Exactly right 👏👏👏
Post Office should be stripped of its ability to prosecute as they appear to have ignored CPIA 1996. When I say ignored they have deliberately circumvented it.
The decision to prosecute will have been made by identifiable individuals who should be held accountable. Heads must roll.
The little guys were bankrupted, jailed and have taken their own lives but still winners in the eyes of Ian Dale. The man is deluded 🤷♂️
I was hoping some one would comment on that. I feel like he shows his true colours.
@@MrTidymarkyes Dale True Blue no matter what they do and that is repugnant and gravely wrong.
This little guy is a nonsense reason as to must retain ECHR
Ian Dale completely misses the blindingly obvious point that "the little guy" shouldn't have to battle against such appalling injustice in the first place. His remark is idiotic and reveals just how tory ideology lacks empathy and morality.
Why is she trying to point score when 4 people killed themselves...disgusting behaviour
Just look at the royals
She has returned the CBE NOW return the £5m u took in salary’s and bonus, whilst presiding over this scandal. 💩
Can see where this is going, a horrendous scandal committed by a known, named organisation where many people were affected and nobody is responsible.
Yep, no doubt ultimately the old "lessons to be learned ..." line will be trotted out as we conveniently move on.
Why did it take an ITV drama to get Rishi to act? Populism driven politics at its worst.
but, they never are!@@_Damian_.
No it's okay, 30p Lee has made it clear it's ALL Ed Davies fault. If you ignore every Conservative and Labour post office minister who has also held the post, it's all on him!!!
@@PpP-y2u”Rishi”? When did this repellent habit of calling these corrupt incompetents by their first names begin? It needs to stop.
Politics has become a popularity contest and the TV program was the only thing that made them take any action.
sure seems that way
however, that doesn't mean we should believe everything we see & hear on tv! especially if it's about jeremy corbyn, who should
have an opinion on the post office scandal!
Or maybe the British public only understand or become aware of a Problem when it's turned into a TV drama. After all, the politicians respond to their constituents. This has been known about since 2009 and it hasn't stopped people voting Tory. Time to stop blaming the politicians and start looking in the mirror.
Agree....it's convenient that it is an election year.
mind you, the sub posties were treated like 2nd class citizens!!!@@garymcmanus9946
Just a thought on the Post Office scandal.
In 2010 an average of 2 post offices were being closed each week and thousands have been shut down since the Horizon scandal started.
Could this have been done intentionally to speed up the closures and avoid paying out redundancies?
It would be interesting to see if any post offices run by convicted subpostmasters are still up and running. I can't find any details on these online!
I find your suspicion unnerving but highly accurate.
Yes 👍 it’s no coincidence that the neoliberal politicians stood back and let it happen. It goes way deeper than a selective computer glitch.
Woah! I think your suspicions are not ludicrous.
Really wouldn't put it past them tbh.
Sounds legit 🤔
We stand up for the little guys" - this has dragged on for more than a decade with initial reports of problems 'appearing in computer magazines since 2009 and the scandal appearing in Private eye since 2013. It's been discussed in parliament since 2015..... and yet that woman, sitting at the head of this corruption, was given an honour in 2019
When a population loses faith in the Justice system, society is on a knife edge..the UK is in a very dodgy position now..
The best quote I have heard is “the law courts are like the Ritz open to anyone but it’s only the rich that can afford it”. Anything involving the government there’s always an enquiry never a criminal investigation. If it wasn’t for ITV the Post Office scandal would just be swept under the carpet and forgotten about. I very much doubt if those involved in the scandal will be prosecuted. What normally happen in situations like this the corporation will be fined,or in other words the public will be made to pay for the crime. In fact taxpayers money was being used to prosecute the Postmasters.
@keithburrett
What a great quote. Sums things up perfectly.
The courts and lawyers are used to threaten people who are not wealthy. The costs are incredible.
We're through it at the moment. Having to go to court to get justice for my son, who was negligently treated, and suffered enormously because of it when he was 14.. Facing denial and delay, hoping we will be intimidated and/or run out of money. Disgrace but symptomatic of all these public and private bodies.
They say they listen and learn, but from my experience, they do not and aim to cover up and protect each other. Our case has been ongoing for nearly 7 years.
Is this woman already taking her own personal "victory-lap" over this ongoing travesty?!?
Which woman? ‘One collar’ or Eddie Izzard?
Alan Bates managed to get justice because he found 500 people. What if he'd only found 450?
It takes 500 little people to equal one rich person, aparently.
This is definitely not a case of the little man triumphing over the big corporate institutions. It’s 500 little guys, 25 years and a ITV1 prime time TV series with massive viewing ratings that finally shamed the government into talking about this. Despite this they still haven’t got proper compensation for ruined lives. Tell me, how can anybody see this as a triumph for the little man over big corporate institutions Iain ‘Tory’ Dale?. The British justice system is stacked against ordinary people towards the rich and powerful. I always say that you shouldn’t think law and justice are the same thing in this country because they are not.
What really annoys me is the post office and the computer company knew there were faults in the system before it was launched,it was decided to continue with the roll out of the system and try to sort out the bugs whilst it was being used.This was never going to work correctly,seeing as this system is still being used I wonder what the postmaster’s contracts have now been rewritten to exclude the responsibility for paying back shortfalls.
Absolutely spot on Oli Dugmore👍
👍🏾
The fact that it has taken this long and needed a tv drama to bring this story to the front pages where now mps are falling over themselves to berate the post office for a little reflected glory tells you all you need to know about justice in the uk.
I love the way the Tory MP pretends to be an interested outsider. You wouldn’t know they have been in power for most of the time.
I love the way you're all ignoring how this was all done under Labour in the first place.
@@Dynasty1818Lol. Happening under a particular government isn't even relevant, the Post Office has the authority to pursue it's own cases and it was the POs own system that was at fault. Government didn't play a part in that
The governments role was when it came to light under the Tories that people had lied about about what happened and certain people involved in that scandal were given a CBE
Ian Dale making out this is the little guy beating the big guy… really??? How has the big guy been beaten? One person has given up their CBE whilst on the other side people have lost their lives, their freedom, their livelihoods etc etc. What a strange way to see the situation
It is now imperative that those that allowed the worst case of a miscarriage of Justice in British history now be arrested under caution, charged and imprisoned. There can be no excuses.
oh my this Tory woman is talking absolute tripe, complete deluded word salad. She talks about not rushing to assumptions , but that’s exactly what the post office did you silly woman. These people are unbelievable. It’s been going on for 20 years ffs.
People are told to protect that name (business/organisation) at all costs but when it comes down to it a name can’t be prosecuted because it has no face. My child with Sen needs was let down by his school he is now 15 and will not be able to do his exams due to unmet disability. The school lied in professional meetings about how he was coping because they wanted to protect the school at the cost over my child’s mental health. Where is the logic in putting a organisation over the lives of people.
Companies can and are regularly prosecuted. Punishment is usually in the form of a fine or payment of compensation.
I'll be proved wrong about agreeing there's a 2-tier justice system in this country, when I see real consequences for those corporate and government bullies who abuse their power and privileges. This is only one case we're aware of. It's terrifying to think what other scandals are out there or simply been forgotten over time.
If I were a betting man, I'd put money on nobody getting the punishment deserved here, relative to their appalling behaviour and destruction of people's lives.
Dodgey computer system exist in all government departments. In HMRC they introduced an auto reconciliation process which makes obvious mistakes, often doubling periods of benefits and sending out letters asking for money that staff know are not accurate. "The onus is on them to check' they say, "you have to let the system do it's thing" they say.
"Rushing to assumptions" after 20 odd years 😂!
I agree! We should rush to vacate all the convictions.
Cameron's removal of legal aid for civil cases has fuelled this
I’m a Canadian railway worker. Here, I am embroiled in a similar situation as the Post Office within the industry which operates on a business model called Precision Scheduled Railway, a comical oxymoron for the ‘precision’ and ‘scheduled’ components. By any other name, this is pure corruption that has contributed to vast destruction and the loss of many lives since its inception.
I watch the Post Office scandal with much interest as I correlate many of the same issues here with railways. In North America, these are private companies given an appalling carte blanch by government regulatory agencies to operate completely outside of the law, which is sickening. It strikes me, like the managerial class here, that it is very easy to accuse others of one him or herself is doing, aka gaslighting. Post Office leadership should be investigated for corruption where it accused its subpostmasters. My instinct is that something deeper than malicious incompetence is at play here.
The personalities at the head of the Post Office need to be named and shamed as is about to happen with North American rail executives.
Sir Tim Parker was Chairman, and Paula Vennells was CEO while this was going on. He should lose his knighthood at the very least. There are plenty of other Board members who are also culpable.
Mims is horrendous with her “I’m so normal I watch Netflix like you” and “Governments of all sides” interjections.
Nailed. If you move in the correct circles then you get to do whatever you want while always failing upwards. We the working class dont get the luxury. One mistake and you get sacked, one late appointment to the Job Centre and you get sanctioned.
Yes! and why did it take an ITV drama to get Rishi to act? Populism driven politics at its worst.
The same applies to local councils ie developers, with large pockets, taking councils to court when councils object to their applications eg when challenging reducing the number of social housing built. The councils cannot afford to defend these cases. Result: the big pockets win every time.
I don’t agree. It’s political and in fact, many applications are prevented by NIMBY councils which actually doesn’t help their budgets and can cause issues with them going bust. Schools struggling to fill places and so on. Planning permissions have never been more costly and more difficult to achieve due to politics. So I completely disagree with that part of your point. The viability stuff with social housing is sometimes true but councils can and do defend all appeals and win 70%+ on average.
@@craiglee3038you mean " affordable" Housing, not Social housing...
@@craiglee3038 Gratefull if you provide evidence of the 70% and identity which councils. With thanks.
How is it that Fujitsu are allowed to install back doors in their software, allowing them access to and the ability to alter highly sensitive and supposedly confidential data?
I was just wishing the Tory would just stop rattling her gums, all she did was say all the things that should happen but never did. Darren is an excellent MP who if you go and watch some of his committee work actually cares about how the working class are treated by those in power.
The current Tories don't stand up for the little guys. They have broken Britain. The gap between the rich and poor has grown under the Tories!
The way things are in this country I would doubt if any Lawyer, boss, government official or any person that was in a position of power will ever be brought to justice. How can you say that the little guy won, people committed suicide and they all had their and their families lives ruined. This is disgusting and unacceptable but it doesn’t surprise me.
Mims Davies is having a laugh when she says they (politicians) stand up for the little people. It is exactly because a succession of ministers from all parties clearly didn`t stand up for the little people that we have this scandal.
Politicians from all sides have been in the pockets of big business for decades now and up till now the PO and Fujitsu executives are unaccountable.
We still have the ongoing scandal of the water companies routinely polluting our waterways with raw sewage but the executives of these companies face no punishment and regularly award themselves massive bonuses.
We need the government to start holding these criminal companies to account.
Why do they keep calling it compensation, it was their own money they are not giving them anything that doesn't already belong to them
If this wasn't a GE year would Sunak be so keen to bring this scandal to a close ?
Definitely not
He's not, he and his rich buddies have known about this for years, think about the outrage we have all felt since it was all laid out for us by the itv drama - those in power knew exactly what was going on and they let it continue. Now we're all talking about it they want us to shut up so they're giving breadcrumbs and thinking about what they can do to distract us, just as they did with grenfell, partygate and all the other outrageous displays of how little we actually matter
The little guy got one back how cliche that opinion. The UK government gave the post office way too much autonomy in investigating the horizon debacle. Hundreds of people’s lives were destroyed and no government watchdog had the insight to overlook how the Post Office was operating with their investigation. I have so much destain for the entire post office board and the government they never questioned anything the little guy was hung out to dry it’s disgraceful 25 years this has been going on.😡🤬😤😤😡🤬
What should have been a massive red flag when the Post Office scandal occurred was the fact that over 700 people were supposedly stealing money at the same time. Surely that should have made someone question that, and investigate other possibilities such as software fault. Had it been just a few individuals then I could understand the Post Office assuming they were possibly on the take and stealing money, but not over 700 people, that's just a massive red flag that there were other issues, one being a software glitch.
That is very true. But British business is run by massive self promoting egotistical characters, who aren't bothered about any human. The human is just a statistic, a number of digits on the company payroll.
Your point is very valid and that is why this stinks of government collusion. In a normal business a big increase in small scale possible offences, often from previously reliable staff, would indicate a system or training fault. Why therefore would the post office investigators have stuck their own noses out to actively bully/lie to and fit up the post masters. It must have been pressure from very high up. This reeks of state criminality. As does the gong for the CEO and the almost no talk at all of action against the Post Office management.
There wasn’t “a” red flag saying 700 fraudulent postmasters - it was deliberately 700 red flags of 1 postmaster at a time
This is the insidious truth - it was a conscious decision to gaslight the victims here
what shoulld'e been a cluye was that people were seeming to steal more money than they had in takings
Also nothing was stolen prior to the new system then all of a sudden there was a huge discrepancy.
We need honest people running our country, The problem is we haven't. There's probably a Law out there somewhere that says If you are an MP you will be exempt from prosecution.
What we need is aware people who don't get their information from TV dramas and the tabloid press.
It's called political immunity.
The prime minister is protected from prosecution even if it means lying to parliament based on false information and killing millions of innocent people like in Iraq.
The UK political system is messed up.
14 years....
no tghere isn't
I wouldn't say the little guy "triumphed" when they all lost their livelihoods and some went to prison. They just got some semblance of justice.
So the majority of SPMs decided to commit fraud when the PO introduced a computer system to detect that fraud. The amount of individuals highlighted would have been known to PO. This should have raised a red flag that had to be investigated & not from a presumption of guilt on the part of the SPMs.
Well said Ollie
I think we also need to take a look at the judges in these cases too. They seem to have assumed guilt based entirely on the word of the plaintiff.
If only RIshi took as much interest in this as Nigel Farages bank account
😂😂
Of course there are two sets of rules. Always has been, always will be. Our masters will prevail.
I could not agree more. What you said should be painfully clear to all.
Not always. King Louis XVI didn't chop his own head off.
Not much fear of that from a nation which cannot stop illegal immigration. @@Code_Dee
So far…
History says, Don’t hope
On this side of the grave,
But then, once in a lifetime
The longed-for tidal wave
Of justice can rise up
And hope and history rhyme.
S.Heaney
Re imbalanced accountability - it took the tory govt; via Gove, a week approx to give £69M to Michelle Mone for her useless PPE, which she still has. The inquiry into the 'post office scandal' is now over 3 years old & has yet to be resolved
At its peak there were over 9,000 Post Office Local branches being operated as franchises of sorts by private retailers. The new owners (post 2011 privatisation) ended the franchise arrangement because they hoped that people would just travel further and use official post offices, internalising the small profits previously made by corner shops and mini markets. Just another case of privatisation gone wrong. Still waiting for a successful example because it can't be just ravenous shareholders, could it?
The entire purpose of “private prosecutions” is to advantage those who have resources and disadvantage those without.
"You can look at it that way, but you can also look at it as the little guy winning over the corporate power".
Ian is truly shameful.
"The little guy"... 700 of them!
30 years later, multiple suicides later, after destroying their lifes (job, reputation, employability, loans, ...).
And only when another corporation decided to profit from it.
Darren Jones is always on the mark....a fantastic speaker...
The Tory MP larping as a hero for the little guy, come on!? 😂
It's how johnson fooled everyone in 2019 and they're sticking with it til the end.
The little guy who made it from middle class, well educated entrepreneur to corporate wealth. Rags to riches.
Labour being for "the working man" yet truck drivers and electricians and alike DON'T vote Labour.
@@Dynasty1818 boring, I am not even voting Labour myself, no amount of partisan brained whataboutery changes the fact the the Tories support that the least. Also, objectively, Labour has a larger share of working class votes, although they represent those interests less and less these days, still much more representative than a party of privately educated posh boys led by a billionaire richer than the King, who boasts about diverting funds from deprived areas to rich areas, scraps inheritance tax during a cost of living crisis and who uses any and all situations to further enrich their chums. If you cared about working people in reality, you wouldn't be simping for them, how did they get you? Was it scapegoating some powerless minority for the results of BS you voted for again?
Darren Jones for PM. Seems like a genuine stand up guy who wants to hold people to account.
I have yet to see him not do an amazing job at anything he's pointed at.
I hope Labour are reading this.
Piper Alpha, Hillsborough, Grenfell, The Post Office…all examples of those without power having to fight with everything they have over DECADES to get a semblance of justice.
The establishment has dragged this out for as long as possible in the callous hope that many of the 732 victims will have died off by the time any resolution happens.
The same happened with the tainted blood scandal; forty years on and it still hasn’t been satisfactorily resolved.
Capital punishment is best summarised by the trope that the more capital you have the less punishment you will face
How many government scandals do we need to hear before people stop believing a single word these clowns say to us
When said scandal has a chance of dragging the world into nuclear war. Then people might wake up.
Oli Dugmore is increasing the voice of reason. PoliticsJOE is excellent as is his work on LBC. He has both youthful energy and knowledge on his side. Hats off big style.
Nobody answered what would have been the outcome if the 500 cases could not have been found and the civil case had not gone ahead. What other course would have been open to these victims?
Also it seems that we shall very soon find out who recommended the CBE and in the same way Vennells pre-empted being stripped of it maybe the misguided person/people would do well to own up now?
This seems to be a common problem everywhere... I live in the US and took "mandatory training" at my company yesterday where I learned (again since I have to take it EVERY YEAR) that things like insider trading and bribery are illegal and I'll go to jail if I engage in them... yet in Washington the politicians fight anything that might limit their ability to use insider trading to profit off their elected seats... and we have leaders openly in the news pitching quid pro quo's as a way to advance their personal or political positions.
And apparently we're all supposed to just shrug and say "oh well".
First caller was spot on. Whoever has more money is most likely to win in a court. Not exactly what you call justice is it. Also, the postmasters may be winning in the end but it should never have got to that should it.
Darren Jones nails it when he says that this was a fundamental human failure.
Every conviction that used the computer system as evidence, is unsafe. They should all be released and the evidence re-evaluated, which should squash 99.9% of them.
Investigations should also be made into what the post office knew, when and why it went through unlawful prosecutions when they knew the evidence was faulty.
5:32 We do know the details, we've know the details for years.
And once again, a Tory speaks empty words, offering nothing of worth to the discussion.
Suggesting Labour are better aren't you. It's not like this whole scandal happened under Labour. OH NO WAIT!
@@Dynasty1818 Nope, that's you putting words at my fingertips which I did not say. So please kindly step away from the keyboard and have a think about why you wished to put words at someone else's fingertips, and what that says about you as a person.
@@KidarWolf Oh please. You're an LBC listener, so pro-Labour all day every day. Anyone whining about a government here is suggesting Labour will do better, which is moronic. And as usual, you whine about the Tories for something outside of their control. In this case, Labour let this happen. And you're whining about a Tory spokesperson here. You should be ripping Labour's apart but nah, as usual, "Tories innit".
@@Dynasty1818 That's a bold assumption - I actually don't like any of the political choices in the UK at present, I think they're all awful, and it's a case of choosing the lesser of many evils. So again, you're placing words at my fingertips which I had not actually typed. Do you have nothing better to do than to be upset over imaginary slights? How terribly sad for you. Might I suggest a hobby?
The Government has presided over a culture of contempt for working people that have not inherited enormous amounts of money & privilege ,they also rewarded people that have slimed their way up the greasy pole plus Starmer did nothing Ed Davey turned his back & the Law is Lazy
This is nothing new and will always be. Very sad situation and totally agree this is symptomatic and instructive of the UK.
The bulk of the compensation, such as it is and for those who've got it so far, is being swallowed up in legal fees. The "little people" may have been vindicated reputationally, but only partly, and they are not being anything like adequately compensated, most of them not yet at all.
If it’s OK for postmasters to go to jail over this then let’s have the real culprits doing time. Purjury alone will
Do for starters and the barristers investigated that represented to PO too.
Always has been one law for the little people and one for the elites. Nothing has changed.
Let's get one thing straight here. There is one reason and one reason only why she handed it back, she was shamed into it by 1.2 million people. How to go from nearly commiting the perfect crime to being the most despised person in the country.
Exactly, she didn't want to admit responsibility. Giving it back now is a token gesture...
There are innumerable scandals in the UK. This country is finished. We can't build scholls, railways, roads without it taking years but the big business people get millions. The little guy hardly ever wins as he or she is poorly educated, misdirected and diverted from getting into politics. We live under Capitalism, a system of rich getting richer and foreign wars being essential. And this is what we see. Politicians only show concern when a disaster happens or when they get caught out.
Come on guys it was an ITV drama that unblocked this issue.
It is the most OBVIOUS statement on the planet. Of course justice and peoples rights depends on how big your pockets are. As Ollie listed all of those disasters from Piper Alpha to Grenfell to now the Post Office even if people get a judgement in their favour it still takes years to receive any money !!
"some what makes it a mockery" it is a mockery. the honours system is a joke.
As a British woman who went to live in the Caribbean for 28 years, and came back, its crystal clear that the UK is still very much a Plantation to the upper 'class' elite., from its tools of its masters, to its psychological conditioning of its native people with media. No wonder they are intolerant of immigrants and Europeans, they resist such colonial mindset. And now Brexit has effectively restricted movement of the plantation workers off the plantation. It wouldn't surprise me that learning languages gets dropped at some point from the national curriculum or dimminish.
Absolute nonsense.
Whats frightening is that the postmasters were prosecuted outside of the CPS, by their own team. Likewise TV licencing, RSPCA, DWP and many others are able to bring their prosecutions. Archaic!!!
The level of corporate crime that goes on is disgusting!
After twenty years of known issues with Horizon and years of reporting, I've found the fact that now people are very concerned is a bit of a joke. But "Or you can look at it well this was the little guy actually triumphing in the end it's taken a long time but triumphing over the big corporate institution"? Really?
A handful of cases addressed, pitiful compensation, people dying before having their names cleared and the only reason there's any movement now is they've lucked out that ITV has decided to make a series. The police have had years to do something, so has the government. If this is the speed the little guy gets action when dozens of people have been unjustly incarcerated imagine what's happening when your fight isn't being turned into a drama.
And even now, with all the newly outraged reporters people still don't seem to understand how this destroyed lives. That's years of living with a record. Being exonerated doesn't get back the money you lost because of that record and those sentences. It's a moral victory but you've still been financially damaged meaning the government should be talking about compensation. A process that May and Gavin Williamson made virtually impossible for the average wrongfully convicted citizen incidentally. That's why the numbers of people receiving compensation for false imprisonment has functionally stopped over the last few years but that's not an ITV drama yet so no one cares about that.
It's also not even addressing the people who went into their own pockets to make up non existent shortfalls to avoid prison. The post office essentially extorted citizens, pay us money or we'll destroy your life. How many people haven't come forward yet to talk about those years of being ostracized or living abroad to avoid the scandal? Then they took that ill gotten wealth, knowing full well the software didn't work, and aren't just keeping it. No they're using those resources to fight their victims so lawyers are seeing the bulk of the compensation. And it's likely the remaining sub post-masters and post-mistresses, who have possibly already been required to make up shortfalls, will end up footing part of the bill if an actual compensation scheme starts running.
And Dale thinks this is what "the little guy actually triumphing in the end" should look like?
The Post Office were high minded and aggressive,
They can't say we made a mistake were sorry .
"We stand up for the little guys" - and yet this has been going on for 24 years and something is only happening now because of the negative publicity via the TV series.
We are in a situation where in the eyes of the state, (King Charles, the responsibility comes with the title), corporate bodies and those that walk in the corridors of power can leave a path of destruction, littered with the bodies of the innocent and they receive little more than a frown of disapproval from the courts or regulatory bodies for the utter ruination of countless lives. Compare that to the prosecution, guilty verdict and sentencing of an autistic woman who, whilst not in control of her own finances due to her difficulties, didnt pay for a TV license. The question of if there is a two tier justice system is clear and obvious and will only be denied by those that sit on top of the pile hoping it remains that way.
The new anti protest laws and anti strike laws are there to beat us down and criminalize us all if we ever found the collective courage to say no more we've had enough.
RUclips why are you censoring my comments?
Equality of justice for all or there is no justice at all.
What was that opening take Iain? 20 years of fighting to get next to nothing in terms of compensation but now MP's have noticed it while its the hot story this week somehow they've won and beaten the big corporation? Noone responsible is going to jail for this. There is no way to look at the struggle these people are still going through and say "yay they won, lets change the story."
Frustrating that a lot of MPs are talking about any of this like it's new information to them. This has been known about for nigh on 10 years now.
Spot on, apart from one or two mps who took up the case early, the rest of them in both main parties were deaf to it
I have been told that I may have been betrayed and in the right but I couldn’t afford the legal charges to win any litigation so Lies led to me becoming homeless My mother lost her home due to a £25 Debt that Sue Essex and Clare Short tried to get the scandal sorted out that made my mother homeless but couldn’t If we had been able to afford legal charges the outcome would have been different sadly the legal profession are not concerned with justice only their fees
A question that needs answering is were the Horizon Shortfalls deliberately targeted at certain Post Offices using Fujitsu's back door access. It seems quite a coincidence that Michael Rudkin from the Federation of SubPostmasters should visit Fujitsu and find out about this back door only the Post Office run by his wife to suffer such a shortfall the next day. It's almost as if he was targeted!
I wonder how many of the Post Offices that suffered a shortfall were on the Post Offices closure list, or were run by Sub Postmasters who were regarded as being trouble makers by the Contracts Manager. In other words the shortfalls were created deliberately for Corporate gain in many cases.
Spot on . The computer system was fine , the figures were deliberately altered. It's fraud on a massive scale. Sometimes altered overnight remotely .
Of course they have different rules always have
Not rocket science.
The Labour government were informed of this issue many years ago and ignored it.
I think there should be a drama done to show how thr withdrawal of legal aid has affected little people. They could pick 6 different cases where you now cant get legal aid and do a 6 part series.