After spending a lot of hours studing compressor maps: 10- 11 - 12 blade compressors are more % efficient but have narrower map plus they keep that efficiency at higher boost levels.They like higher boost levels AKA work well at high rotating speeds. 6+6 / 7+7 wheels have lower efficiency but wider maps and also seem to like peak power at 1.5-2 bar pressure ratios. If your engine NEEDs boost go for FULL blades. If your head is very good like hondas youll rotate the turbo slower for the same target power and you dont need full blades 5+5 6+6 7+7 will work. Also compressor with big exducers like bigget turbine wheels because they need the longer lever of the turbine wheel since the compressor exducer is longer lever too.
The 11 blade will flow the most, it will also be the quietest. There are no splitter blades on the 11, there are 12 blades in a 6 blade with splitter. this video is a bit misleading to all. These are all KTS wheels which can be purchased direct from them.
So I have a 62mm 10 blade rated at 71 lb/min with a .82 hotside, I also have a 6 blade t66 rated at 72 lb/min .84 hot side. If they flow pretty much the same, but the 10 blade delivers its flow faster, isnt that more efficient? Why would you want a slower delivery 6 blade?
I just did a 62mm six blade upgrade in my HX35w. Previously running in 8 blade 54 mm inducer HX35w. Hoping to see a big difference in power. Without much sacrifice in spool.
I bet it’s a lot laggier huh. I stepped back down to a 60 from a 62 for that reason. But I learned the biggest thing with spool is ur blade number. If its a lil too laggy thro a billet 8 blade u could even do an 11 just remember there more blade the faster it will light but the more u lose up top. If that makes sense
@@Bray-tl1kx I already did the 11 on the smaller turbo and a drag radial. I'm going to a six-blade 62 mm. Using the same exhaust wheel and housing. So it shouldn't be too laggy. Considering it's a hybrid
Read elsewhere, where? The internet? Cause what he's saying is true, it's all based off aerodynamics. As the air inlet Mach number rises, the air flow within the blades goes transonic or sonic, forming a wake that starts to effectively block the passageway. If you don't believe me, grab a copy of NA cumptsys "compressor aerodynamics" yourself, or believe the internet...
Joe Kirian based on Robert Young from Forced Performance (highly respected turbo builder in motorsports) he explains how basically the volume of air between each blade of greater, so more air more per revolution at lower shaft speeds. However this becomes inefficient at higher shaft speeds, hence moving to a higher blade count. While I don’t dispute what you are saying, what I’m saying is that there is a disparity between theory and practice. and these guys have the real world experience so to speak.
The higher blade count has to do with the wheels processing ability. Due to a phenomenon called compressor wake, where the pressure is unevenly spread throughout the blades flow path, a higher blade count better seperates the air so pressure is more evenly distributed. Inducer blade count and angle is determined by flow rate and planned inlet flow speed.
@@170turbo Thats correct. If you look at Garretts first GTX line (which pretty much what everyone else copied the 11 full blade design from) their compressor maps shows they flow less peak lbs/min, but has a taller compressor map which means higher PR capability(more boost), whereas with the later GTX Gen2 and G-series, they reduced the blade count to promote higher lbs/min numbers so the turbos are capable of flowing more air but being efficient at lower PRs. Which is also pretty much the same thing Robert from Forced Performance explained.
It depends. They do flow worse at lower pressure ratios but are more efficient at high pressure ratios, which may improve flow in the top end if you're running the turbo out of its efficiency range on a 6+6 or 7+7 wheel. They do have a quicker boost response, but they also have a narrower torque band. You can have an 11 blade flow more than a 6+6 in the top end if your 11 blade has geometry that is focused towards that top end flow at really high turbine rpms, but you'll lose some of that low end despite having a faster perceived spool if that makes sense. For some applications a 6+6 or 7+7 makes more power, particularly at lower pressure ratios and lower shaft speeds if you're looking to make peak power. For others, like say you are dealing with boost tapering off hard at high rpm, you may be able to get a bit more pressure in the top end with a full bladed wheel like a 9+0 or 11+0. Say you're turning up the torque request on a car with a stock turbo on it, and you're pushing the turbo hard enough, and spinning it fast enough to the point where it's not flowing more air, it's just making more heat. That is when a full bladed wheel may actually perform better. A really large turbo may benefit from a cut down wheel because you're going to be spinning it at lower speeds and generating less heat to begin with, so the lower efficiency at high speeds doesn't matter as much.
What about a 9 blade? I'm trying to make 500awhp in my Evo8 until I rebuild the block this summer for my GTX35r kit. So I'm upgrading my stock Evo9 turbo with a 20g Comp Cover & wheel & Td05hr turbine. I'm just not sure which Comp wheel to use. 7 or 9 blade? I even found a 10 blade! I guess I'd rather have faster spool, but if I can make 500 with the 20g 7+7 & tdo5hr turbine on E85 I'll be happy.
No it isn't. It's pretty simple, when all things are equal. Reducing surface area by adding more or taller blades increases pressure sooner. Less blades have less surface area, take longer to create the same pressure - allowing higher pressures, thus also creating more mass flow.
Only if the aero is different between the two which is hard to understand because most of the Chinese compressor wheels don't note the difference clearly. Some of them call it extended tip if the aero is different but you never know.
Upgraded my is20 on my gti mk7 with a bigger billet and made 425hp too the wheels , spools up really quick and you get boost that could definitely rival an is38 , obviously the is38 ball bearing tpc38 or vortex eqt xl are out of this world but I made good power .(car has a gutted stock downpipe and custom res delete, stock intake I just put in a highflow performance filter and bigger intake tubing .(keep in mind it was a stage 3 setup so ballbearing billet hpfp and lpfp was done , rs3 injectors, bigger intercooler, ttrs coilpacks but stock internals and that run was on pump gas )it definitely outpowers the OEM is38 even at top end . I am currently in the process of going tpc38 though but the upgraded ballbearing billet for the is20 is worth it no doubt .
In is completely opposite! Half blades are for better power band distribution, and odd number blades with all full blades, are for high rpm applications(mostly track used) or in twin charge/twin turbo setups(whether parallel or sequential)
I bought upgraded & rebuilt turbos from Turbo Lab a few weeks ago for my N54. Just had them installed by local independent shop. Mechanic was supposed to be done last week but promised the car do be completed and delivered tomorrow. I'm excited to drive it and feel the improved power. My mechanic told me that he was impressed with the appearance of the turbos.
Hello, with which of the 2 wheels I have the best performance, both wheels have the same average TD04HL 45.65/52mm 5+5blades turbo wheel/ turbine shaft&wheel for MITSUBISHI TD04HL 45.65/52mm 9 blades turbo wheel/ turbine shaft&wheel for MITSUBISHI
Going off of what you usually tell people when you haven't rub the turbos side by side, either driving or Dyno, is not wisdom, experience, or science. It is guessing. Educated as it can be, it's still guessing.
I have a 94’ Eclipse GSX that I’m currently trying to build in order to make 300-400 HP it is running a stock eBay Big 16G what services do you recommend In order to accomplish those goals?
Sweet. How did you turn out with whatever you did. I'm building a meth injected turbo charged 2003 Passat. Stage two plus tune. Tore down the turbo and am upgrading as big a wheel as I can tryna find the diff between 6 n 7. Got a 7 46.5/56 inch now. With cutback. All that stuff size makes a diff. A few. MM can make a huge difference.
I have a 4 x 8 that’s 4 main blades and 2 splitters between each main it’s only a 66mm Smooth Bore hub less compressor wheel and no map grove or as some call a anti surge grove but anyways it’s making 1134hp to the tire on the dyno it’s also on a Duramax diesel with no injectable’s fuel only and Air to air Intercooler
Nice. I have a Borg Warner 85mm compressor wheel. 6 blades. It laggs so much. It's on a 12.7 Detroit 60 series I want to add the 11 blade compressor wheel. It has a 1.32 t6 ( 96 turbine wheel. The one found on a 171702 Borg Warner Can u help me out with a Billet compressor wheel?
What you want is the “T51R Mod”. You will need a minimum 4” compressor intake with the smallest being a G30 Series sized turbo 400-650hp. The mod only can be done on 4-6” compressor housing. Nothing smaller that. That’s the “turbine” sound that everyone wants, about 400$usd for the mod, with your own turbo used.
Hehe just curious I kinda like knowing ahead of time cause yes I have been looking around to figure out how to know if a turbo has a 6 blade or not partially for the power and the sound cause I like stupid loud turboes that’s just me but I really really really do it’s just personally my kind of thing
Around how much less power are you talking when you say the 11 blade will have less power?
After spending a lot of hours studing compressor maps:
10- 11 - 12 blade compressors are more % efficient but have narrower map plus they keep that efficiency at higher boost levels.They like higher boost levels AKA work well at high rotating speeds.
6+6 / 7+7 wheels have lower efficiency but wider maps and also seem to like peak power at 1.5-2 bar pressure ratios.
If your engine NEEDs boost go for FULL blades. If your head is very good like hondas youll rotate the turbo slower for the same target power and you dont need full blades 5+5 6+6 7+7 will work. Also compressor with big exducers like bigget turbine wheels because they need the longer lever of the turbine wheel since the compressor exducer is longer lever too.
I chose the 11 blade to get great low end spool up and holds peak boost through the rpm range
abec777hondatec ....... so this guy in the video is wrong ? more blades mean better in quicker spool and more air at higher PSI ?
I'm acutely wrong more blades mean less air but a quicker spook down low
Which is better for building boost at lower RPMs for those of us who get bogged going uphill unless we're driving fast
Would like to see the flow figures, some actual science here.
no kidding.
The 11 blade will flow the most, it will also be the quietest. There are no splitter blades on the 11, there are 12 blades in a 6 blade with splitter. this video is a bit misleading to all. These are all KTS wheels which can be purchased direct from them.
what do u mean quietest ? less turbo noises?
I have 11 blades. By quietest you mean you can hear it everywhere when you want to hear it. And sneak around when you don’t 🚔
im glad i found this channel before i pulled the trigger on turbo size. You have the best turbo info on utube.
So I have a 62mm 10 blade rated at 71 lb/min with a .82 hotside, I also have a 6 blade t66 rated at 72 lb/min .84 hot side. If they flow pretty much the same, but the 10 blade delivers its flow faster, isnt that more efficient? Why would you want a slower delivery 6 blade?
I just did a 62mm six blade upgrade in my HX35w. Previously running in 8 blade 54 mm inducer HX35w. Hoping to see a big difference in power. Without much sacrifice in spool.
I bet it’s a lot laggier huh. I stepped back down to a 60 from a 62 for that reason. But I learned the biggest thing with spool is ur blade number. If its a lil too laggy thro a billet 8 blade u could even do an 11 just remember there more blade the faster it will light but the more u lose up top. If that makes sense
@@Bray-tl1kx I already did the 11 on the smaller turbo and a drag radial. I'm going to a six-blade 62 mm. Using the same exhaust wheel and housing. So it shouldn't be too laggy. Considering it's a hybrid
With regard to blade count, everything you said is opposite to what I’ve read elsewhere
Links?
Read elsewhere, where? The internet? Cause what he's saying is true, it's all based off aerodynamics. As the air inlet Mach number rises, the air flow within the blades goes transonic or sonic, forming a wake that starts to effectively block the passageway. If you don't believe me, grab a copy of NA cumptsys "compressor aerodynamics" yourself, or believe the internet...
Joe Kirian based on Robert Young from Forced Performance (highly respected turbo builder in motorsports) he explains how basically the volume of air between each blade of greater, so more air more per revolution at lower shaft speeds. However this becomes inefficient at higher shaft speeds, hence moving to a higher blade count. While I don’t dispute what you are saying, what I’m saying is that there is a disparity between theory and practice. and these guys have the real world experience so to speak.
The higher blade count has to do with the wheels processing ability. Due to a phenomenon called compressor wake, where the pressure is unevenly spread throughout the blades flow path, a higher blade count better seperates the air so pressure is more evenly distributed.
Inducer blade count and angle is determined by flow rate and planned inlet flow speed.
@@170turbo Thats correct. If you look at Garretts first GTX line (which pretty much what everyone else copied the 11 full blade design from) their compressor maps shows they flow less peak lbs/min, but has a taller compressor map which means higher PR capability(more boost), whereas with the later GTX Gen2 and G-series, they reduced the blade count to promote higher lbs/min numbers so the turbos are capable of flowing more air but being efficient at lower PRs. Which is also pretty much the same thing Robert from Forced Performance explained.
Would you recommend upgrading the K04-022 to a billet wheel? I see advertisements for a stock replacement of a 9-11. Thank you for your videos.
I tried to listen to the whole video but mannnn dude was wearing me out. I couldn’t struggle through it anymore.
The 11 bladed one creates more pressure, doesn't it create more power?
It depends. They do flow worse at lower pressure ratios but are more efficient at high pressure ratios, which may improve flow in the top end if you're running the turbo out of its efficiency range on a 6+6 or 7+7 wheel. They do have a quicker boost response, but they also have a narrower torque band. You can have an 11 blade flow more than a 6+6 in the top end if your 11 blade has geometry that is focused towards that top end flow at really high turbine rpms, but you'll lose some of that low end despite having a faster perceived spool if that makes sense.
For some applications a 6+6 or 7+7 makes more power, particularly at lower pressure ratios and lower shaft speeds if you're looking to make peak power. For others, like say you are dealing with boost tapering off hard at high rpm, you may be able to get a bit more pressure in the top end with a full bladed wheel like a 9+0 or 11+0. Say you're turning up the torque request on a car with a stock turbo on it, and you're pushing the turbo hard enough, and spinning it fast enough to the point where it's not flowing more air, it's just making more heat. That is when a full bladed wheel may actually perform better. A really large turbo may benefit from a cut down wheel because you're going to be spinning it at lower speeds and generating less heat to begin with, so the lower efficiency at high speeds doesn't matter as much.
Nice video, what about 7+0 wheel? Could u plz explain if its better to power or spool up?
11 blades spools faster ? Less lag?
Not accurate at all everything he's saying is 100% "backwards"
What about a 9 blade?
I'm trying to make 500awhp in my Evo8 until I rebuild the block this summer for my GTX35r kit.
So I'm upgrading my stock Evo9 turbo with a 20g Comp Cover & wheel & Td05hr turbine. I'm just not sure which Comp wheel to use.
7 or 9 blade? I even found a 10 blade! I guess I'd rather have faster spool, but if I can make 500 with the 20g 7+7 & tdo5hr turbine on E85 I'll be happy.
All of this is speculation, if you don't do a flow test on each wheel it's just your opinion,
No it isn't. It's pretty simple, when all things are equal. Reducing surface area by adding more or taller blades increases pressure sooner. Less blades have less surface area, take longer to create the same pressure - allowing higher pressures, thus also creating more mass flow.
It’s butt dyno proven
Only if the aero is different between the two which is hard to understand because most of the Chinese compressor wheels don't note the difference clearly. Some of them call it extended tip if the aero is different but you never know.
@@turbolabamerica do you recommend using an 11 blade compressor wheel on a vw jetta 1 4 tsi k03 turbocharger?
How about the 5×5 blade compressor wheels such a the MAP EF2? How do those play into the equation?
Upgraded my is20 on my gti mk7 with a bigger billet and made 425hp too the wheels , spools up really quick and you get boost that could definitely rival an is38 , obviously the is38 ball bearing tpc38 or vortex eqt xl are out of this world but I made good power .(car has a gutted stock downpipe and custom res delete, stock intake I just put in a highflow performance filter and bigger intake tubing .(keep in mind it was a stage 3 setup so ballbearing billet hpfp and lpfp was done , rs3 injectors, bigger intercooler, ttrs coilpacks but stock internals and that run was on pump gas )it definitely outpowers the OEM is38 even at top end . I am currently in the process of going tpc38 though but the upgraded ballbearing billet for the is20 is worth it no doubt .
"just the tip... height"
In is completely opposite! Half blades are for better power band distribution, and odd number blades with all full blades, are for high rpm applications(mostly track used) or in twin charge/twin turbo setups(whether parallel or sequential)
can you show any dyno hp - rpm results !
What about the turbo whistle/spool up sound, which one is the most quiet wheel? Is it the 11 blade???
I'd like to know as well. Whats the sound differential between the two.
The 11 blade is the quietest by far. 6 and 7 blade wheels scream like Jets
@@AU10ZC i had my 11 and sounds like a supercharger or something was leaking
I bought upgraded & rebuilt turbos from Turbo Lab a few weeks ago for my N54. Just had them installed by local independent shop. Mechanic was supposed to be done last week but promised the car do be completed and delivered tomorrow. I'm excited to drive it and feel the improved power. My mechanic told me that he was impressed with the appearance of the turbos.
TheMortgageDoctor definitely want to know your feedback
any updates?
Nothing in 4 years after this post
Has no idea what he's talking about
Can you make a 7 blade in a 63.5? Would that help with spool??
Use with the 63.5mm upgrade for the 6.0l ??
With antisurge housings the 6 blades are way louder in sound then A 11 blades
what do u mean way louder?
@@1bad335ii by sound and spool up.
Wouldn’t a 6 blade be louder than an 11 even without an anti surge housing? Less blade = more noise??
@@tayvonrose2528yes
So what’ will make more power at higher boost?(30+psi) an 11 blade or a 6+6 compressor wheel?
6+6 make more power at hight boost
So why is the 11 blade better you never pointed that out
More space between blades = more airflow which equals faster spooling and better cooling
Thank you for posting this!! I think I just requested this as well!
Hello, with which of the 2 wheels I have the best performance, both wheels have the same average
TD04HL 45.65/52mm 5+5blades turbo wheel/ turbine shaft&wheel for
MITSUBISHI
TD04HL 45.65/52mm 9 blades turbo wheel/ turbine shaft&wheel for
MITSUBISHI
kinda in coherent here...he's allover the place,no start or finish just random facts
Going off of what you usually tell people when you haven't rub the turbos side by side, either driving or Dyno, is not wisdom, experience, or science. It is guessing. Educated as it can be, it's still guessing.
I want to modify my turbos of my Ford 2.7 EcoBoost do you do that?
Hi Turbo Lab, thanks for the informative video, is it possible to upgrade the Compressor Wheel without upgrading the Turbine Wheel?
I have a 94’ Eclipse GSX that I’m currently trying to build in order to make 300-400 HP it is running a stock eBay Big 16G what services do you recommend In order to accomplish those goals?
Sweet. How did you turn out with whatever you did.
I'm building a meth injected turbo charged 2003 Passat. Stage two plus tune. Tore down the turbo and am upgrading as big a wheel as I can tryna find the diff between 6 n 7.
Got a 7 46.5/56 inch now. With cutback.
All that stuff size makes a diff. A few. MM can make a huge difference.
What compressor wheel should I run with a kt67 turbine wheel
How does the blade max out the airflow? Larger compressor housing won't make a difference?
Hey my guy am trying to get in touch with you hit me up about some work
Thanks for the video man, appreciate it! I decided to go for a 7 blade.
Have a link for one?
@@fbi6540 for which?
Are you powder coating the compressor housings too?
I don’t powdercoat
I have a 4 x 8 that’s 4 main blades and 2 splitters between each main it’s only a 66mm Smooth Bore hub less compressor wheel and no map grove or as some call a anti surge grove but anyways it’s making 1134hp to the tire on the dyno it’s also on a Duramax diesel with no injectable’s fuel only and Air to air Intercooler
Wow never seen one of those that's cool!
Great information thank you
This is 11.18 mins of my life i will never get back.
What about single plane vs dual plane compressor wheel?
@Turbo Lab America, how about point milling vs flank milling production process of compressor wheel?
Nice. I have a Borg Warner 85mm compressor wheel. 6 blades. It laggs so much. It's on a 12.7 Detroit 60 series
I want to add the 11 blade compressor wheel.
It has a 1.32 t6 ( 96 turbine wheel. The one found on a 171702 Borg Warner
Can u help me out with a Billet compressor wheel?
My engine rpm is between 1000 -2350
An 85mm inducer on a 12.7 Detroit? You're WAY off. Too big for a work truck.
@@kanehoward7050
Yeah I know but it's not stock.
Its my little hot rod wok truck. I'm pushing 50psi instead of my stock 20psi
i had a 6+6 and upgraded it to 11+0 and its more laggy
Really? Oh man. Don't tell me that.
What turbine matches a 19t compressor wheel?
Can you upgrade my civic 1.5t turbo?
Do you have to balance a turbo after installing a new compressor wheel that was already ballanced?
I do not know. Are you not willing to find out if the shaft is straight and balanced?
Thank you for posting this. it answered my question.
Good info especially I'm having ya upgrade my vgt
Hiii
can you help me by e-mail?
Thanks bro
hey man i know this is old but which one has the most turbo whisle
What you want is the “T51R Mod”. You will need a minimum 4” compressor intake with the smallest being a G30 Series sized turbo 400-650hp. The mod only can be done on 4-6” compressor housing. Nothing smaller that. That’s the “turbine” sound that everyone wants, about 400$usd for the mod, with your own turbo used.
solid informations. Thank you sir
Which online store is preferable to buy these compressor wheels
I have stock of a lot of them, which one are you looking for?
How to get a hold of you sir..
Is there a certain trim level or ar that favors a 6 blade turbo or no or am I just complicating things
Since diesel guys like 4+4 5+5 a lot. I bet 6+6 is better with smaller trim AKA small inducer big exducer for higher boost.
Which blades whistle the loudest? so I can know what to buy. Thanks!
10 blade turbine
@@zoelguy5195 The turbine and compressor are different.
Did you find out witch was the loudest?
👍🏻
Also I have a b207r 04 Saab 93 areo TD04, how much do you sell your TD04 HL 20t for
We do the v6 upgrade for 500 and the 4 cylinder upgrade for 650
Hehe just curious I kinda like knowing ahead of time cause yes I have been looking around to figure out how to know if a turbo has a 6 blade or not partially for the power and the sound cause I like stupid loud turboes that’s just me but I really really really do it’s just personally my kind of thing
How exactly do I know how to spec this on a turbo
cant you machine a turbine wheel from steel?
The turbine wheels is inconel casting which gets welded to chromoly steel the it all gets machined down to size.
Yes I am a turbo noob and to be fair I just like really really loud turbo spoils it just really really is a turn on for me
11 blades makes the most power.
Jonathan Craig it’s a reason why turbo companies using 11 blades now they perform better all the way around.
@@SIRICKO yeah because all turbochargers are made the same. Lol come on now.
@@rickyr7790 Facepalm
@@SIRICKO I'm with you man. 11 blade is what I got and it rocks! Garrett gtx series and newer all use at least 11 blade for a reason.
@Jonathan Craig same exact size?