Tbh i dont think Ned brings Jon home in this timeline. He just saw what lannisters are capable of and for all he knows Cersei is just as bad. He would give Jon to Howland and not take the risk
Perhaps,unless he falls in love with Cersei, which is possible. She's beautiful & very charming, especially in her younger years. And Ned's a reasonable guy and wouldn't blame his wife for her bro's and dad's actions, especially if he already loved her. She would possibly kill baby Jon or try to,ruining their relationship.
@@damonwade6591 im actually gonna take this one further. If she openly says she will kill jon if brought to court, I think ned might actually tell the truth as to who jon really is. It might ingratiate her into now understanding her point of him not being a cheater as he could use the "its my sisters child" logic since she "loves" her brother so much. The hard part is her keeping it secret from tywin who would definitely would keep it on his back pocket
We know Cersei doesn’t do well with bastards, so I can see Jon going to Howland. However, Robb is older than Jon, so by definition not!Joffrey would be the eldest and his position is not threatened by Jon’s existence Further, it isn’t like Ned has any further dalliances. He’s doggedly loyal to Cat, and by the time we see them they’re the loving, cuddling, quietly affectionate Perfect Parents Sexy In Love (cause Rickon ain’t that old😅) So now imagine a Cersei who’s faced with “his mother died and I’m an honourable man, so I need to raise him… but I swear to you there shall be none other than you from here out, I give you my apology and my word” … a Cersei who still wants to be loved by her husband might mellow out. And as she keeps having pretty babies and Ned keeps his hands warming in the correct kirtle… She might never looooooove Jon, but her husband’s base born son might grow up to be Notffrey’s solid brother And that’s assuming Tywin doesn’t just throw in with Rhaegar, depose Aerys, marry Cersei to Ned and then IMMEDIATELY betrothe little Sancella to wee baby Aegon - and probably baby rhaenys to little Aemond Targaryen-aka-Jon Snow
@@ericjimenez4360 Or Ned might lie in a simple "yeaaah in fact he is my brother's bastard but i don't want anybody to use him to usurp us and i won't harm him. Let's just say that he is a bastard and nobody would think twice of it." Cersi wouldn't be dumb enough to hurt herself by revealing it and would just have to treat him from far away as possible with just a few "ho yeah, my children and my husband's son are training together" In the main timeline nobody cares about Jon being a bastard apart from well, telling that he is a bastard. Nobody is like "waaaait could this child not be Ned's son ?". As far as we know everybody accept the idea.
If Ned married Cersei, let’s be honest, Tywin would make sure Ned became king, not Robert. Wouldn’t even need to be violent (not that Tywin was above it) - he could easily convince Jon Arryn that Ned would be a good King and Robert not so much. (And that the ‘Targaryen grandmother’ thing is really immaterial when the throne was won by right of conquest.)
And not like Robert would mind, he'd probs be like "Yeah, lets give my buddy Ned the throne! Now if you need me, Im gonna go off and be a sellsword". Then the events of the "What if Ned Stark became the King of Westeros" video happens, this time with Cersei as his wife and three different kids. Johanna would be set to marry Jon and either Robb is set to marry Dany or Viserys marries Dany first to keep her away from the Lannisters and Starks. Alternatively, Viserys insists of getting Dany to marry Jon, as per family tradition.
The problem was always Ned. Arryn put together a masterful display of politics but made two mistakes. He got Ned to marry Cat too soon. His marriage to Lysa should have been enough to secure the Vale. And, did the three of them ever discuss who would be king when they were done? Because none of the big 3 actually wanted it.
I don't think Cersei and Jaime would fall back into their old relationship in this scenario. Cersei was apparently loyal to her marriage vows for the first months of her marriage to him, only giving up after being faced with evidence of his infidelity with a cousin at Greenstone. But since Ned wouldn't continue to be unfaithful to Cersei after bringing Jon Snow to Winterfell, I think Cersei would calm the frell down and accept the situation. It would probably help that this "shame" was taking place in what she considered the backwoods instead at court. In fact, not being at court with all its games and intrigues would reduce a lot of the stress on Cersei. In the North people are focused on survival, and can't be bothered with constantly vying over power and status. Being separated from Tywin Lannister would remove even more stress. It would also help that Ned isn't a domestic abuser. And after thinking about it, she'd realize that since she *hadn't* married the king, then Maggy the Frog's prediction couldn't possibly be true, which be a huge relief. In fact, without anyone to fight, manipulate, or perform for, Cersei might began to ask herself what *she* wanted to do.
And women in the North are allowed much more agency. Cersei like “I should have wielded the sword!” And Maege Mormont like “GLAD TO HEAR IT let’s get some calluses on those soft southern hands of yours!” “Whoa wait what!!” “Yea! Come along, my lady, you’re about my Dacey’s height, we’ll get you some britches.” “My husband-“ “is too large, my lady, you’d step right out of his pants.” “………. What does your husband thing of your mace, Lady Maege?” “What husband? When I want a daughter I just go out and find myself a bear.”
Yep i agree with your take, most of the times she is just pushed by the stress by her father, the court and robert. Ned is a really loving man, although he will take longer to reconcile with cersei he will eventually did it and cersei not getting stressed all the time aside the cold would probably forgive ned although she will demand that jon goes to the wall as soon as possible.
I think there's a fanfic that was built on this very scenario though. It's called 'Lady Stark', and Ned marries Cersei in that fic while Robert gets Catelyn as his wife.
I think I found a decent reason to why Tywin would want Ned to marry Cersei. During the 18th and 19th centuries, pine trees held naval importance as masts. Asha Greyjoy (Game of Thrones renamed her Yara Greyjoy to avoid confusion with the wildling Osha) wanted to use the Pine Trees of Sea Dragon Point in the North to make ships. It's possible Tywin would want to marry Ned to Cersei to use the same tress, build more ships for the Lannister Fleet to defend Lannisport.
That‘s great. I was thinking that Robert just rejecting the offer to marry Cersei (for whatever reason, perhaps he‘s still grieving Lyanna, maybe he doesn’t want Lannisters at his court), and Ned jumping in to keep the Lannisters as allies The Lannisters probably know that Ned wouldnt ever betray Robert, and the Starks are well-respected and likely to benefit from Robert‘s rule in the coming decades.
Pausing at 16:29 to note that what bothered Catelyn most was that Jon Snow was raised at Winterfell alongside his legitimate half-siblings. She even thinks that she could excuse a dozen bastards if they'd been raised far from Winterfell. None of Robert's bastards are raised in the Red Keep. He once suggested bringing his firstborn Mya to King's Landing, but Cersei shut that down immediately. Catelyn probably wouldn't stoop to a veiled threat to the girl's life, but I'm sure she'd express her disapproval clearly. Another irritation was that Jon looked more like Ned than any of her sons, with only Arya inheriting the Stark coloring. That's not going to be an issue with Robert, who's apparently incapable of siring a child who doesn't have coal black hair. All in all, I think Catelyn will be able to cope with being Robert's wife.
And considering that Cat is a more pleasant person than Cersei, I can see Robert at least liking her as a friend or appreciating her as a nice roommate and company, especially since his bastards are out of sight, out of mind
Plus Mya is a daughter, part of her problem with Jon was that he was a son and that his potential children could be a threat to Robb's in the North, a bastard daughter is unlikely to pose such a threat, most likely she would just end up as a companion to one of Catelyn's daughters.
Rhaegar was acting crazy long before Lyanna was even born, and Robert only idolized a version of her he created in his mind, an obsession- just like with targaryens and with Dany later.
@@anastasiab9506 Rhaegar wasn’t ‘crazy’ by any means. He was a child of prophecy it’s hard not to think you have all of the answers, and we never know if Robert killing him was or wasn’t a detriment to the realm at large.
If Cersei feels punished by Tywing for having to marry Ned, she might side with Ned to punish Tywin after the rebellion, which could make them closer. Their marriage would also lead to Ned getting to know Jaime and learning about the wildfire plot, making him probably less judgemental and improving their relationship. I could see the Lannister family coming out better, but Tywin personally weaker.
If Cersei married Ned, that would also prevent the whole thing with Jaime from going on for long, since they‘d not be near each other for a considerable amount of time,
Cat wasn’t upset that Ned had a bastard. She says as much in the books. She was upset that he brought Jon home and raised her amongst his other children. Maya Stone wouldn’t have been raised amongst the royal children. Ned states that there is no room for bastards at court. Maya could be brought to court but never raised like a royal child.
I think in this timeline Tywin would pull the king's landing plot way sooner. Navigating a way to keep the Baratheons fighting, but making sure Ned ends up on the throne instead of Robert. Especially since this would make his daughter the next queen anyway. He would need to find a better way however to dispose of Rheagars children and wife as he would probably be more aware of Ned's honor. Perhaps he can chase them into the city where they die in a skirmish or something.
@@Jeppe_P realistically it’s even better to keep them. Ned’s honour can be trusted, and there’s no faster way to extinguish a civil war than by marrying the losing side. Just ask the Yorks and Lancasters XD So the obvious solution: Queen Rhaella and Prince Aegon to the Faith - or given a dignified retirement in the North (winterfell, perhaps?) Prince Viserys can be sent to Oldtown. Elia returned to Dorne. Rhaenys and Danaerys are kept at Court, as they’ll be married into the loyal families of Stark and Baratheon.
I honestly think Cersei wouldn't try to cheat on Ned with Jaime. Cersei didn't start cheating on Robert until after he started cheating on her which Ned would never do. Also Cersei would be allowed to rule in Ned's absence like he has Catelyn do which she would enjoy. When Robert was out Jon Arryn or the council would have ruled on his behalf and not Cersei. For Jon it'd be an issue but I could also see Cersei pushing to take him south when Ned becomes hand. There would also be nothing about it being bad for a bastard at court if Robert did bring Mya Stone. Robert may even try to marry the two bastards in addition to his son and Ned's daughter. Ned and Cersei's second son would bring up an interesting hook from Tywin. At this point Tywin's only heir is Tyrion whom he never wants to take lordship so Tywin would try to argue to let the second son become his heir and I could see Cersei pushing for it so one son rules the North, one the Westerlands and their sister being queen.
lol Cersei cheated on Jaime multiple times and he was completely devoted to her. She would have had Jon murdered on his very first night at Winterfell.
@@emnameherzi3342yes but Cersei didn’t really love Jaime, but more so the power she had over him. He acts as a sense of affirmation for her. I think she would’ve respected Ned more as a man and grew to love him lol
People forget that the Starks are crazy powerfull and respected, too bad that their biggest enemy are themselves. It´s not weird to think that Tywin would marry Cersei to them.
Here’s a simple answer to make this work: Tywin and Rickard both offered sons to Hoster’s daughters. In these three families there are three sons and three daughters. What if they both offer their sons to Hoster and Hoster, seeing the signs of discontent against Aerys, he suggests a 3 way pact. Brandon is oldest and marries Catelyn. Jaime marries Lysa. Ned marries Cersei.
if this accident happened , we can all agree that robb would be cercei's favorite and far more deadly ,and arya would definitely be tywins favorite granddaughter .
Nope.. Arya would have been absolutely CRUSHED. Remember tywin values family prestige over everything and to do so you need to adhere strictly to your roles. Arya was anything but that. People refer to Arya tywin bond which is JUST THE FACT that Arya was sharp and tywin was stuck with dumbasses and he just enjoyed her company. She's a servant who humored him. If he knew who she's, he'd have no qualms in sending her head to Robb or using her as a pawn.
Context and possible reasons: Tywin heard the rumors of the Arryn,Stark and Baratheon alliance and Tywin was in and send Cerise and Brandon. Love this AU
You could’ve made the premise of this scenario a bit less contrived by saying Steffon Baratheon introduced Jon Arryn and Rickard Stark to Aerys Targaryen and Tywin Lannister during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Ergo, Tywin Lannister sought out a marriage pact between Brandon and Cersei once Jamie was named to the Kingsguard because Tywin saw the growing power block emerging between the North, Vale and Stormlands.
in fairness, tywin always wanted cersei to become queen of westeros, hence the planned betrothal to rhaegar, and people have defo bought up the fact that ned could very easily have taken the throne instead of robert if he had wanted (i cant remember if this is book or show canon), so cersei marrying ned isnt too far fetched as far as asoiaf spectulation and fan theories go
22:10 oh that’s an very fascinating and interesting scenario to think about! I was thinking about this hypothetical when I first read the title of this what if, and I’m glad I wasn’t disappointed. Instead of being someone else’s kid, it’s Cersei’s son, who discovered his mother doing the nasty with her twin brother, wondering if he’s a Bastard? Now she nor Jamie couldn’t simply push the kid out now, they have to be very careful and gaslit the kid into not telling Ned. This is the most interesting part of this what if scenario in my opinion, would’ve love to read a fanfic about this happening! I need to know more about this part so much oh my god!!! Awesome what if! 👍🏽❤️
One thing to always take into consideration when it comes to Cersei is her persona. She be extremely resentful and “depressed”. The North is like the hillbillies, the savages, the not so civilized. She was the “great lady” of her generation, being beautiful, rich, from a Great House of fertile women who hardly die in labor, etc. Marrying her to Ned would be a sentence of exile for her. She would be far from everything that remotely resembled her luxurious life. The closest thing to those memories would be White Harbor and it would be considerably far for her to go continuously. Furthermore, being a narcissist, knowing that her daughter could be Queen would really create heavy conflicts, besides that she would probably despise the “northern children” and favor the “southern children” especially those who most resembled her or Jaime physically. It would be an interesting scenario however she against Jon, but it would still be a cliché of “The Wicked Stepmother”. One thing is certain she would severely punish her children who had contact with him and would emotionally manipulate them to hate, fear and despise Jon. The Stark children would be different too. Maybe some would be less moral and ethical. What would become of Rob would also be very different, since his mother would spoil him a lot and he might not even become Jon's friend. Theon would be in an even more dangerous situation, sending a Greyjoy to be in the custody of a Lannister, after they attacked Lannisport, is not a safe idea. The boy would probably suffer “accidents”. She would also not allow herself to be referred to as Cersei Stark, Lady Stark. She would always insist on still being a Lannister and calling her Stark would be an insult to her.
@ He would have serious problems with Cersei and would even be melancholic, believing that his own wife hates him and that he condemned them both to this hell. He would not love her and their relationship would not be good. However, he would still be Ned, honorable and respectful to Cersei, which might make her at least not want to kill him at the right time. Maybe she would even respect him, as much as possible.
@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 The thing with Cersei is she is not particularly worried about her husband being a good person. Yes, one who mistreats her or brings shame publicly is distressing to her, but she is unlikely to care for him just because he's a good man. While her years with Robert hardened her, she was already an abusive narcissist long before that. I imagine she would view Ned as rather simple and set about trying to manipulate him. He may try to be a good husband, and even feel bad for her and want to help her at first, but I imagine once he saw who she was he would struggle to feel any real affection for her. I do think their children would be more spoiled then the Stark children from canon, but I don't believe they would be anything like Joffrey. Ned as an involved father who instills his principles in them would curb that kind of behaviour.
@@missmay713 Perhaps the Stark children would become less innocent and more aware of the malice of others, as well as understanding the Southern mentality more adequately.
Interesting two point that could come up: little finger would now hate the king, and the some of the stark kids would have multiple wolves? Or maybe ned and cersei?
You're right there. I can absolutely see Littlefinger scheming to get rid of Robert. Both to get Catelyn for himself and because he would be offended by the king constantly cheating on and potentially mistreating the woman he "loves"
@@nathanpilakowski6282 Id legit think she would off herself after being depressed. Seeing how far she'd be from the people she knew like Jaime, Her father, and anything Lannister.
Who knows, Cersei might mellow out a bit living in the North with a husband that isn’t horrible. Though I think Tywin would still be ambitious and incite unrest then back Stark’s claim to the throne in some way.
Look at the map, it's pretty plain to see why Tywin would want the Tully Alliance. The whole of the Riverlands. Especially if you consider how other lesser Lanisters were marrying into the houses around those places. Simply an extension of influence.
The thing is, I don’t see her trying to seduce her brother. Ned is a good husband and part of the reason she did seduce her brother was because her original husband Robert was not pulling out.
@TheUnseenPath iirc during the flashback in the book Cersei was banging Jaime since they were kids after seeing 2 people go at it. I think the book was Feast for Crows but possibly a Storm of Swords.
Cat’s problem wasn’t the cheating (she expected it honestly), but the fact that Ned kept his bastard close to home. Robert doesn’t keep his bastards around. While she will be uncomfortable with the cheating and whoring and what not, as long as her heirs are safe and undisputed, she would care.
Not exactly, Arryn was killed because Littlefinger wanted a war among the Great Houses, so he made it appear that the Lannisters killed him because he was about to find out the truth about Cersei's children.
Jon Arryn's murder also happened in large part because he was planning to send off his son Robert as a ward to Stannis Baratheon, which Lysa absolutely would not accept
Cersei's greater hostility to Jon might actually be enough to motivate Ned to just tell her the truth. That would calm her down, but years later after Ned is executed I can see this causing problems because at that point Cersei want to scheme to use Jon as a means to greater power.
I think in order to get in Tywin's good graces, Robert would retire Jaime from the King's guard, and Jaime wouldn't really care as much to stay without Cersie there
If Tywin was so smart and strategic, he would’ve wed Jaime to Catelyn and sent Cersei to marry Ned in the North. If he'd paid attention, he would’ve realized Cersei wasn't as politically savvy as he was and that her attitude would bring trouble for their family in the future if she wasn’t brought to heel. Ned wouldn’t have abused or neglected Cersei, but he also wouldn’t have put up with her nonsense. Catelyn is all about her family's motto and being a proper highborn lady, so her loyalty to Jaime as his wife wouldn’t have been in question. This would've given Tywin an alliance with the North, which is the largest kingdom in Westeros, and the Riverlands, which is one of the more fertile kingdoms when it comes to growing food. Cersei had a low cunning, but she had no business being anywhere near a throne. Nor should she have ever been given a crown. She lacked the traits necessary to be a good queen. She also put her entire family at risk by passing her brother's bastards off as a king's children-an act of treason. Had the truth been revealed sooner, Robert would’ve probably tried to wipe out the entire Lannister family, and would've had the right to execute Cersei for being an unfaithful wife. This would likely leave Robert to marry Lysa, which would've been a match made in the seven hells.
What if Ned never had robb and passed Jon as his true born son? What if Robert took Jon Snow in as a deathbed wish from Lyanna Stark? Edit: I didn’t say he had to be kind to Jon. Knowing Rob, he would likely abuse Jon and treat him even worse than Tywin treated Tyrion because of who Jon’s father is. However, if Lyanna begged Rob to take care of him, maybe he would agree, given how much he loved her. As for Ned, perhaps Robb would still be born, and Ned could pass Jon off as a true Stark but as a second-born son instead, after getting him legitimized.
The Jon one is out of character for Ned to force Cat to take on Jon, the only way is for him to tell her about Jon’s true identity so maybe. The Rob taking on Jon one is more plausible, if Rob isn’t as hurt and goes with Ned to the Tower. Rob would have 2 emotions either rage and wanting to kill Jon or sorrow and wanting to honor the wish. It depends on how she tells him cause Rob would be pissed if she was in love with Rhaegar and the war was all for nothing. But if it’s a grape type thing and she has Rob see Jon as her blood so he’s a part of her, then he might be more open to taking in Jon or Aegon.
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie & Tywin Lannister knows about Jon Snow? What if Ned won against Jamie at the Tower Of Joy? What if Gerold Hightower kill The Mad King Aerys-II while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy? What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion? What if Robert Baratheon has a Trueborn daughter by Cersei Lannister? What if the Cordyceps from *The Last Of Us* was in Westeros?
In a fanfic I saw about Ned x Cersei, Cersei treats Jon well but because she discovers his truth much earlier, through Howland, and plans to use him as a card if necessary, although in the end she sees him with some affection and Jon thinks of her as a mother, and the children Cersei has with Ned also see him as a brother, but that fanfic was clearly a mirror fanfic. Leaving that aside, I think that Ned, in order to keep his promise, would have brought him with him, but he wouldn't say that he's his son... I think that telling Cersei that would seriously put Ned's life at risk, and there are other alternatives to say that would be safer for Jon.
Something I find interesting about this alternate scenario is that both Stark and Lannister are based off of real houses and people. York and Lancaster who fought during England's Wars of the Roses from 1455 to 1485. And it did eventually end with the Marriage of Henry VII to Elizabeth of York, beginning the Tudor Dynasty.
I don’t think Ned actually becomes hand of the king in this timeline because there’s no reason for Jon Arryn to be killed. I’d also be surprised if Cersei became the same cold person she did because a lot of that comes from how Robert treated her. Ned isn’t Robert though. I do think she’d be much more pissed about John Snow but I hope Ned would recognize that beforehand and hopefully say it’s his brother’s son or at least have someone else in Winterfell raise him.
I feel Jon would go for the throne, he lived up to Cats house words so this time he would live up to Cersei's house words and he would probably live up to the prophecy.
16:33 the books make sure to hammer home that Cat's problem with Jon is that she is treated like he is true born, and that she would have been fine with him having hundreds of batards as log as she could not see them. So no I don't think this would be as much of a problem. She fears that Jon may out claim her children, she knows that because the exact number of Robert's bastards and their names an locations. they would pose no threatto her children.
I think things would work out for them. Jon would be sent to the wall and the years of being a good husband would help mend things between them. Not to mention, she'd probably train in combat as to not be completely bored. And as time goes on her family colors will fade more and more with Stark colors replacing them.Till they go to King's Landing, where Jamie would try to get it on with her. Even reminding her of Ned "cheating" on her. Something like this. J: Sister, it's been years since we've seen each other. Why don't we catch up? (Jamie makes a move to kiss her) (Cersei shoves him away) C: Yes. And not a single raven from you or father. Almost as if I didn't exist. J: I tried. Father and the king kept me busy. (Jamie makes another move with a smug look) J: But, you're hear now and there is much to makeup for. (Cersei shoves him once again) C: Things are different now Jamie. I am wed with children. J: And? C: And, I will not betray Ned. (Walks around him toward a table to pour wine for herself) (Jamie walks behind her with a look of annoyance) J: Is this the same honnorable Ned Stark that brought home a bastard? (Cersei puts down her cup, turns around and slaps Jamie) (Jamie tumbles a bit from the slap with a look of surprise as he puts a hand to his slaped cheek while looking at her) J: Well sister, what a surprise. You manged to move me a bit. Seems your time in the North was well spent. C: He made a mistake. And that mistake has been taken care of. (Jamie straightenes himself out) J: Ah. Yes. The wall. A perfect place for all unwanted bastards. Who knows how many he has there? (Cersei walks towards Jamie with a look of anger) C: Careful brother. You do best not to anger a wolf. (Jamie looks at her with a teasingly rasied eyebrow) J: A wolf now? (Jamie laughs) J: By the gods. I never thought I'd see the day Cersei Lanister, would trade her mane for fleas. (Cersei walks toward the door and stops right infront of it to turn around to at look at Jamie) C: Better to have fleas and be honorable. Then to have a mane and not have any at all. Isn't that right Kingslayer? (Cersei turns around, opens and walks out the door)
One thing that would be interesting is what happen between Catelyn and Littlefinger. If she’s left in a loveless marriage in King’s Landing and he stays at court to make his fortune, she might eventually be drawn into the “comforting” arms of a childhood friend…
I honestly cannot believe anything would come from it, though I agree Littlefinger would try his best. First because Catelyn cared for Littlefinger as a brother, and I doubt loniness would make her go for a man she viewed as a family member. But also because Catelyn embodies her house words of "Family, Duty, Honour" to her core. I cannot believe she would never break her marriage vows and duty as a wife.
Another scenario that I could see where Ned and Cersei marry is if Lyanna survived childbirth but Catelyn didn't. I believe that Lyanna would still have sent Jon with Ned to protect him, but would have married Robert to increase that protection. In this scenario, there wouldn't be very many noblemen left for Cersei to marry. I also believe that Tywin would play the long game and press for a pact of a future marriage between Cersei/Ned's daughter and Robert/Lyanna's son to marry so that one of Cersei's children could potentially still end up as Queen.
Have everything proceed the same until after brandon dies. Have Aerys call for aid from the westerlands. When Tywin does nothing he kills Jamie in his madness, prompting him to join the rebellion in revenge and have catelyn marry robert and cersei marry ned. Without jamie the marriage could possibly work.
I think if the King kills Brandon and he’s married/betrothed to Cersei, Tywin will have a strong excuse to oppose the king and back the rebels immediately. However I think he might be in a good position to make a grab for the throne himself.
16:20 I think Cat might not mind Robert's indefinitely that much precisely because his children are all scattered in the winds so to speak, what made her resent Jon is the fact that he was living under her roof, he wasn't just a bastard, he was a recognised bastard who looked just like his father and was well known and well liked by Ned's bannermen, not to mention he was getting the same education as her children both by maesters and swordmasters, all of this together means he could potentially gather an army and become a threat to her children's claim to Winterfell after Ned's death, and even if she knows Jon loves his siblings too much to even consider trying to steal their inheritance from them there's no way to predict what his potential children would do, they could try to raise arms against Cat's grandchildren. Cat's hate for Jon is a product of her anxiety, which is very realistic given the recent history of her world, she is much more politically aware than her husband (she was raised as her father's heir after all and Ned wasnt) she remembers what happened the last time a bastard of a great house was given as much privilege as his true born brothers (a civil war) In her first pov chapter she says she wouldn't care if Ned had a dozen bastards as long as he kept them far away, if he married Robert who gets women pregnant and then instantly forgets about them and their babies she would be okay with that as that's something she would expect from any husband of noble birth The only one she would have a problem with is Edric Storm because his mother is highborn and therefore Robert was forced to acknowledge him meaning he could potentially be a threat to her children, but she would be less anxious about him because Edric lives far away and Robert clearly has no interest in him
Please Consider these: What if Stannis Baratheon won the Battle of the Blackwater and became King? What if Robb Stark married Myrcella Baratheon? What if Jon Snow was born a girl? What if Daenerys died shortly after being born just like prince Baelon in house of the Dragon? What if Ned Stark had turned down King Robert's offer to become Hand of the King?
I think you missed a big ramification of this; Catelyn marrying Robert puts her in the direct path of Littlefinger much, much earlier. He was *obsessed* with her, and believed they slept together. No *way* that doesn't end up exploding at some point over the years.
Personally cersei and Ned make sense. Because if catlin's still being married after the elder star Robert still going to be paired off with Liana and the heir to the reach I believe was a bit older than them so he's probably already married off. That only really leaves stanis and Ned and I think stanis is too uptight even for tywin lol and that's actually a good person can possibly deal with cersei and get her to chill the fuck out. Plus Jamie's not going to be there so no twinsect. And you can also always swing oh Ned and cersei become the Lords of castily Rock but the only way that happens is if their children take the name of Lannister because of course Taiwan doesn't want Tyrion to be Lord can't have that and Jamie's currently occupied and refusing to give up the white cape But then you got during and after the rebellion. Most likely tywin seeing the ned in the throne room in the King dead would probably convince Ned to take the throne instead of Robert because Rob's already fucked up and then he got the Lannisters behind you so he'd probably take over because then cerse becomes queen and she becomes all happy. Robert probably marries Catlin then and then John probably still marries her sister. And I'd imagine Ned and cersei probably have one true-born kid before the incest starts because then their king queen and Jamie's right there pumping from behind lol😅 And then you could always say the Ned sends John back to winterfield to be raised by benjam and benjin is sitting lowered in the meantime. And you could always say oh it's benjin's bastard child and then possibly legitimize him
Honestly reading the title I just think they would be upset, so finding the important details like no War of 5 Kings is good. I wonder who Baelish would try to set up as being an enemy. WHAT IF... Myrcella survived being poisoned? Euron killed Balon before Theon first return home? Ramsey missed Rickon? Margaery escaped the Wild Fire?
One thing I feel the scenario skipps out on a bit is Tywin trying to push Ned to the throne. In the main timeline we're told that Robert does not want the throne and tried to push it on Ned, but he redused because of a lack of claim. Cercei wanted to be Queen and Tywin wanted controll over the throne. I can see both trying to manipulate Robbert into giving up the throne using his hatred of targeryans. "The Starks are the only one's without targeryan blood, they should rule by that right." This could be a timeline where anti-targeryan revisionism is pushed 100 times harder with all all the Targeryan buildings renamed, etc. I feel in this case of events Cercei would still cheat with her brother on Ned. Jamie would be kicked out of the Kingsguard by Ned for breaking his oath, but would be spared after some sort of symbolic punishment. John Snow would be much more of a black horse however because once it's turns out that all of Ned's heirs are bastards... he'd be the closest thing to an Heir as Ned lacks truborn children and his closest trueborn relatives are Uncles or cousins at best.
The Tully's definitely would've come to the side of the rebels, if only because they'd be surrounded by the North, Westerlands, and the Vale and wouldn't want to risk fighting them basically alone.
If Brandon had survived the execution of his father he would have married Cat and inherited winterfell. Then, when the Great Council chose Robert to be king Robert would have given Ned Dragonstone instead of stannis. Stanis would keep storms end and would not resent Robert as much. Ned would keep the direwolf as his Sigel but adopt the Targaryen colour scheme Meanwhile Jon Snow would have been raised at dragonstone in his Ansestial seat. And Jon Arryn would suggest that Robert marry The Lannisters but instead would make his friend do it. Ned would frequent court. And without cersei poisoning his soul would end up a much better king. Cersei's children would still be jamies. And the book would still proove it. Stannis and ned would become close friends with similar temperments. But the real question is who would Robert marry here?
So for this timeline to work it would mean that Ned would either have to lose his first wife in some freak accident be it natural or not before the rebellion or that he would have two wives. I feel like they would actually be rather well fitting together just Ned was already married at the point in time so he wasnt an option for Cersei. What I mean is, while Cersei did always want to be queen, she also cares deeply for her family/children and so does Ned. Also if were building off the fact that Tywin carried about making allies without regards to who the allies are, it make sense to make an ally with the future "king of the north"
Now here's an idea, what if Cersei is betrothed to Brandon and both being two wild and passionate people, they don't wait for a wedding to end up sleeping together resulting in Cersei having a son by Brandon before he is killed.
I dont think Cerci would brood if Ned went to kings landing without her.i think the shit would hit the fan. I think she would take the opportunity to increase her influence in the north. She would likely murder John at this point without Ned around to keep her in check. She would probably still try to form alliances in the north with people like the Boltons. As for her reasons, she's Cerci,she doesn't need a reason beyond because she has the power to do it. Lets face it, without a reason to sceam, Cerci would be board and would probably drink herself to death with shades of the evening wine, with a double dose of milk of the poppey.
In this timeline, I think both sets of children will grow to resent their parent however. Cersei will manipulate her kids to hate Ned, and without Cateline to teach their kids the value of family, these children will be more distant to one another, like how Cerseis original kids were. And Cateline will instill the value of family into her kids with Robert, who will grow to resent their father for cheating on their mother and probably for neglect aswell.
"She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight" - A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II I think Catelyn would be fine with Roberts cheating and bastards as long as her children had a politically promising future. She saw Jon as a threat to that from her prejudices against bastards.I don't think Cat+Robert would be loving, but it would work. Two people at court not interacting too much, except ruling the realm together and producing princes and princesses out of duty, not love. When it comes to Ned+Cersei, I think Cersei would have had Jon killed, and that would be the end of the marriage. Not sure what Ned would do to end it, but I can't imagine Cersei would have permission to have any power at all and Ned would probably be public about how she is not to be obeyed too.
Between Ned being too trusting and “honorable”, and Cersei being too stupid for her constant manipulation to be successful, they’d be dead within a year 😂
It would be good, if Ned told Cersey, that John is son of his sister. Just to protect John from her, and ask her to be silent about it. But will be treated like bastard. It would be nice Cersey growing close with John Snow, knowing the truth.
So I think my ideas for a what if are: What if Robert proposed a marriage between Robb and Myrcella instead of Joffrey and Sansa? (Maybe with Myrcella as the oldest Sibling similar to your Tommen born first video.) What if Robert stripped Jaime of his Gold Cloak? (Ideally, Robert still pardons Jaime, but he relieves him of his duties for being an Oathbreaker) What if Lyanna Stark was married to Rhaegar instead of Elia Martell? What if Stannis won the Battle of the Blackwater? (ie, Tywin and the Vale never managed to be the Calvary.0 What if Aemond didn't kill Lucerys? What if Viserys decided to forsake his duties and not remarry at all?
I see them actually making a really good pair. They’d probably empower each other, I bet she’d be told Jon’s parentage and pull the strings to get him on the throne with her daughter as queen.
Yeah, someone else pointed out that littlefinger would probably try to kill Robert due to him having married catalyn, and Cersi being Cersi, would keep Jon in her back pocket after having learned who he really is, to install him on the throne when the time is right to ensure the stark and lannisters have power over the 7 kingdoms, but especially strong bases in the north and westerlands. Would be quite the powerhouse
No doubt about it guys. It’s just a dumb off hand comment.👏 p.s he also wouldn’t say….”b*tch behave” ether but you big brains probably got that already.
What if the ancient Starks didn’t burn their northern fleet? Would the Starks and the north be even more powerful with the ability to have their own trading deals with Essos and the ability to more quickly deploy armies in the GoT world without that several month of hike over the Trident and thru the Neck?
Would have been better if Oberyn married Cersei, as they tried to arrange it when they were kids. If only Tyrion wasn't born as he was, Martell's wouldn't take it as an insult to marry off Ellaria later to him. Southern alliance would look crazy good, and North in general would be more defiant.
Tbh i dont think Ned brings Jon home in this timeline. He just saw what lannisters are capable of and for all he knows Cersei is just as bad. He would give Jon to Howland and not take the risk
Perhaps,unless he falls in love with Cersei, which is possible. She's beautiful & very charming, especially in her younger years. And Ned's a reasonable guy and wouldn't blame his wife for her bro's and dad's actions, especially if he already loved her.
She would possibly kill baby Jon or try to,ruining their relationship.
@@damonwade6591 im actually gonna take this one further. If she openly says she will kill jon if brought to court, I think ned might actually tell the truth as to who jon really is. It might ingratiate her into now understanding her point of him not being a cheater as he could use the "its my sisters child" logic since she "loves" her brother so much. The hard part is her keeping it secret from tywin who would definitely would keep it on his back pocket
We know Cersei doesn’t do well with bastards, so I can see Jon going to Howland.
However, Robb is older than Jon, so by definition not!Joffrey would be the eldest and his position is not threatened by Jon’s existence
Further, it isn’t like Ned has any further dalliances. He’s doggedly loyal to Cat, and by the time we see them they’re the loving, cuddling, quietly affectionate Perfect Parents Sexy In Love (cause Rickon ain’t that old😅)
So now imagine a Cersei who’s faced with “his mother died and I’m an honourable man, so I need to raise him… but I swear to you there shall be none other than you from here out, I give you my apology and my word” … a Cersei who still wants to be loved by her husband might mellow out.
And as she keeps having pretty babies and Ned keeps his hands warming in the correct kirtle…
She might never looooooove Jon, but her husband’s base born son might grow up to be Notffrey’s solid brother
And that’s assuming Tywin doesn’t just throw in with Rhaegar, depose Aerys, marry Cersei to Ned and then IMMEDIATELY betrothe little Sancella to wee baby Aegon - and probably baby rhaenys to little Aemond Targaryen-aka-Jon Snow
@@ericjimenez4360 Or Ned might lie in a simple "yeaaah in fact he is my brother's bastard but i don't want anybody to use him to usurp us and i won't harm him. Let's just say that he is a bastard and nobody would think twice of it."
Cersi wouldn't be dumb enough to hurt herself by revealing it and would just have to treat him from far away as possible with just a few "ho yeah, my children and my husband's son are training together"
In the main timeline nobody cares about Jon being a bastard apart from well, telling that he is a bastard. Nobody is like "waaaait could this child not be Ned's son ?". As far as we know everybody accept the idea.
Tbf cersei is a hell of a lot smarter than catelyn, she wouldnt spill the truth unless she hated ned and wanted to do something to him
If Ned married Cersei, let’s be honest, Tywin would make sure Ned became king, not Robert. Wouldn’t even need to be violent (not that Tywin was above it) - he could easily convince Jon Arryn that Ned would be a good King and Robert not so much. (And that the ‘Targaryen grandmother’ thing is really immaterial when the throne was won by right of conquest.)
That's actually a very good point.
And not like Robert would mind, he'd probs be like "Yeah, lets give my buddy Ned the throne! Now if you need me, Im gonna go off and be a sellsword". Then the events of the "What if Ned Stark became the King of Westeros" video happens, this time with Cersei as his wife and three different kids. Johanna would be set to marry Jon and either Robb is set to marry Dany or Viserys marries Dany first to keep her away from the Lannisters and Starks. Alternatively, Viserys insists of getting Dany to marry Jon, as per family tradition.
🎯
The problem was always Ned. Arryn put together a masterful display of politics but made two mistakes. He got Ned to marry Cat too soon. His marriage to Lysa should have been enough to secure the Vale. And, did the three of them ever discuss who would be king when they were done? Because none of the big 3 actually wanted it.
@@natebaxter9551😂 .. maybe they didnt think they could actually win
I don't think Cersei and Jaime would fall back into their old relationship in this scenario. Cersei was apparently loyal to her marriage vows for the first months of her marriage to him, only giving up after being faced with evidence of his infidelity with a cousin at Greenstone.
But since Ned wouldn't continue to be unfaithful to Cersei after bringing Jon Snow to Winterfell, I think Cersei would calm the frell down and accept the situation. It would probably help that this "shame" was taking place in what she considered the backwoods instead at court. In fact, not being at court with all its games and intrigues would reduce a lot of the stress on Cersei. In the North people are focused on survival, and can't be bothered with constantly vying over power and status.
Being separated from Tywin Lannister would remove even more stress.
It would also help that Ned isn't a domestic abuser. And after thinking about it, she'd realize that since she *hadn't* married the king, then Maggy the Frog's prediction couldn't possibly be true, which be a huge relief.
In fact, without anyone to fight, manipulate, or perform for, Cersei might began to ask herself what *she* wanted to do.
And women in the North are allowed much more agency. Cersei like “I should have wielded the sword!” And Maege Mormont like “GLAD TO HEAR IT let’s get some calluses on those soft southern hands of yours!” “Whoa wait what!!” “Yea! Come along, my lady, you’re about my Dacey’s height, we’ll get you some britches.” “My husband-“ “is too large, my lady, you’d step right out of his pants.” “………. What does your husband thing of your mace, Lady Maege?” “What husband? When I want a daughter I just go out and find myself a bear.”
Yep i agree with your take, most of the times she is just pushed by the stress by her father, the court and robert. Ned is a really loving man, although he will take longer to reconcile with cersei he will eventually did it and cersei not getting stressed all the time aside the cold would probably forgive ned although she will demand that jon goes to the wall as soon as possible.
Just hear to appreciate the frell reference, and I LOVE it. Also your take lol
She wasn't loyal though she literally had relations with Jamie on the morning of her wedding day
@@cloverazar5315
Great comment
I think there's a fanfic that was built on this very scenario though. It's called 'Lady Stark', and Ned marries Cersei in that fic while Robert gets Catelyn as his wife.
Yes, it's very good
Ooo, I’d love to check it out. Can I get a brief synopsis?
They’re the best ship
Link pls
@@Hektolsbruh i was gonna say that
I think I found a decent reason to why Tywin would want Ned to marry Cersei.
During the 18th and 19th centuries, pine trees held naval importance as masts. Asha Greyjoy (Game of Thrones renamed her Yara Greyjoy to avoid confusion with the wildling Osha) wanted to use the Pine Trees of Sea Dragon Point in the North to make ships. It's possible Tywin would want to marry Ned to Cersei to use the same tress, build more ships for the Lannister Fleet to defend Lannisport.
Lumber. Smart
That‘s great. I was thinking that Robert just rejecting the offer to marry Cersei (for whatever reason, perhaps he‘s still grieving Lyanna, maybe he doesn’t want Lannisters at his court), and Ned jumping in to keep the Lannisters as allies
The Lannisters probably know that Ned wouldnt ever betray Robert, and the Starks are well-respected and likely to benefit from Robert‘s rule in the coming decades.
Pausing at 16:29 to note that what bothered Catelyn most was that Jon Snow was raised at Winterfell alongside his legitimate half-siblings. She even thinks that she could excuse a dozen bastards if they'd been raised far from Winterfell. None of Robert's bastards are raised in the Red Keep. He once suggested bringing his firstborn Mya to King's Landing, but Cersei shut that down immediately. Catelyn probably wouldn't stoop to a veiled threat to the girl's life, but I'm sure she'd express her disapproval clearly.
Another irritation was that Jon looked more like Ned than any of her sons, with only Arya inheriting the Stark coloring. That's not going to be an issue with Robert, who's apparently incapable of siring a child who doesn't have coal black hair. All in all, I think Catelyn will be able to cope with being Robert's wife.
And considering that Cat is a more pleasant person than Cersei, I can see Robert at least liking her as a friend or appreciating her as a nice roommate and company, especially since his bastards are out of sight, out of mind
Plus Mya is a daughter, part of her problem with Jon was that he was a son and that his potential children could be a threat to Robb's in the North, a bastard daughter is unlikely to pose such a threat, most likely she would just end up as a companion to one of Catelyn's daughters.
Lyanna must’ve been bad af if she had both Robert and Rhaegar acting crazy.
Facts 😂
Rhaegar was acting crazy long before Lyanna was even born, and Robert only idolized a version of her he created in his mind, an obsession- just like with targaryens and with Dany later.
@@anastasiab9506 Rhaegar wasn’t ‘crazy’ by any means. He was a child of prophecy it’s hard not to think you have all of the answers, and we never know if Robert killing him was or wasn’t a detriment to the realm at large.
Shekindabadtho
If Cersei feels punished by Tywing for having to marry Ned, she might side with Ned to punish Tywin after the rebellion, which could make them closer. Their marriage would also lead to Ned getting to know Jaime and learning about the wildfire plot, making him probably less judgemental and improving their relationship.
I could see the Lannister family coming out better, but Tywin personally weaker.
If Cersei married Ned, that would also prevent the whole thing with Jaime from going on for long, since they‘d not be near each other for a considerable amount of time,
Cat wasn’t upset that Ned had a bastard. She says as much in the books. She was upset that he brought Jon home and raised her amongst his other children. Maya Stone wouldn’t have been raised amongst the royal children. Ned states that there is no room for bastards at court. Maya could be brought to court but never raised like a royal child.
Didn't Robert wanted to bring Maya to Kingslanding, but Cersei convinced him not to? (Thank god, bc she would have had her killed)
I think in this timeline Tywin would pull the king's landing plot way sooner. Navigating a way to keep the Baratheons fighting, but making sure Ned ends up on the throne instead of Robert. Especially since this would make his daughter the next queen anyway. He would need to find a better way however to dispose of Rheagars children and wife as he would probably be more aware of Ned's honor. Perhaps he can chase them into the city where they die in a skirmish or something.
@@Jeppe_P realistically it’s even better to keep them. Ned’s honour can be trusted, and there’s no faster way to extinguish a civil war than by marrying the losing side. Just ask the Yorks and Lancasters XD
So the obvious solution: Queen Rhaella and Prince Aegon to the Faith - or given a dignified retirement in the North (winterfell, perhaps?)
Prince Viserys can be sent to Oldtown.
Elia returned to Dorne.
Rhaenys and Danaerys are kept at Court, as they’ll be married into the loyal families of Stark and Baratheon.
Tywin would do anything possible to make sure Ned sat on the Iron Throne in this scenario.
I honestly think Cersei wouldn't try to cheat on Ned with Jaime. Cersei didn't start cheating on Robert until after he started cheating on her which Ned would never do. Also Cersei would be allowed to rule in Ned's absence like he has Catelyn do which she would enjoy. When Robert was out Jon Arryn or the council would have ruled on his behalf and not Cersei.
For Jon it'd be an issue but I could also see Cersei pushing to take him south when Ned becomes hand. There would also be nothing about it being bad for a bastard at court if Robert did bring Mya Stone. Robert may even try to marry the two bastards in addition to his son and Ned's daughter.
Ned and Cersei's second son would bring up an interesting hook from Tywin. At this point Tywin's only heir is Tyrion whom he never wants to take lordship so Tywin would try to argue to let the second son become his heir and I could see Cersei pushing for it so one son rules the North, one the Westerlands and their sister being queen.
I can see that Cersei will love the idea of her two sons becoming rulers and doughter married to ruler.
lol Cersei cheated on Jaime multiple times and he was completely devoted to her. She would have had Jon murdered on his very first night at Winterfell.
I can see their two sons ruling the whole country (elder: North, younger: South), depends if they're raised enough to get along.
@@emnameherzi3342yes but Cersei didn’t really love Jaime, but more so the power she had over him. He acts as a sense of affirmation for her. I think she would’ve respected Ned more as a man and grew to love him lol
People forget that the Starks are crazy powerfull and respected, too bad that their biggest enemy are themselves. It´s not weird to think that Tywin would marry Cersei to them.
Here’s a simple answer to make this work:
Tywin and Rickard both offered sons to Hoster’s daughters.
In these three families there are three sons and three daughters.
What if they both offer their sons to Hoster and Hoster, seeing the signs of discontent against Aerys, he suggests a 3 way pact.
Brandon is oldest and marries Catelyn.
Jaime marries Lysa.
Ned marries Cersei.
This makes it work out nicely.
If she lives long enough and somehow finds out that Jon is actually Rhaegar's son, there's going to be an influx of bastards in the North.
Bro 😂
Hey at least they would be part stark .
all i could think is ''what are you doing step mom''
if this accident happened , we can all agree that robb would be cercei's favorite and far more deadly ,and arya would definitely be tywins favorite granddaughter .
Nope.. Arya would have been absolutely CRUSHED. Remember tywin values family prestige over everything and to do so you need to adhere strictly to your roles. Arya was anything but that. People refer to Arya tywin bond which is JUST THE FACT that Arya was sharp and tywin was stuck with dumbasses and he just enjoyed her company. She's a servant who humored him. If he knew who she's, he'd have no qualms in sending her head to Robb or using her as a pawn.
there's a really good fanfiction called "Lady Stark" that explores this whatif
@@ohnobees8033 do you know where I can find it
Context and possible reasons: Tywin heard the rumors of the Arryn,Stark and Baratheon alliance and Tywin was in and send Cerise and Brandon. Love this AU
You could’ve made the premise of this scenario a bit less contrived by saying Steffon Baratheon introduced Jon Arryn and Rickard Stark to Aerys Targaryen and Tywin Lannister during the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Ergo, Tywin Lannister sought out a marriage pact between Brandon and Cersei once Jamie was named to the Kingsguard because Tywin saw the growing power block emerging between the North, Vale and Stormlands.
in fairness, tywin always wanted cersei to become queen of westeros, hence the planned betrothal to rhaegar, and people have defo bought up the fact that ned could very easily have taken the throne instead of robert if he had wanted (i cant remember if this is book or show canon), so cersei marrying ned isnt too far fetched as far as asoiaf spectulation and fan theories go
22:10 oh that’s an very fascinating and interesting scenario to think about!
I was thinking about this hypothetical when I first read the title of this what if, and I’m glad I wasn’t disappointed.
Instead of being someone else’s kid, it’s Cersei’s son, who discovered his mother doing the nasty with her twin brother, wondering if he’s a Bastard?
Now she nor Jamie couldn’t simply push the kid out now, they have to be very careful and gaslit the kid into not telling Ned.
This is the most interesting part of this what if scenario in my opinion, would’ve love to read a fanfic about this happening!
I need to know more about this part so much oh my god!!!
Awesome what if! 👍🏽❤️
One thing to always take into consideration when it comes to Cersei is her persona.
She be extremely resentful and “depressed”. The North is like the hillbillies, the savages, the not so civilized. She was the “great lady” of her generation, being beautiful, rich, from a Great House of fertile women who hardly die in labor, etc.
Marrying her to Ned would be a sentence of exile for her. She would be far from everything that remotely resembled her luxurious life. The closest thing to those memories would be White Harbor and it would be considerably far for her to go continuously.
Furthermore, being a narcissist, knowing that her daughter could be Queen would really create heavy conflicts, besides that she would probably despise the “northern children” and favor the “southern children” especially those who most resembled her or Jaime physically. It would be an interesting scenario however she against Jon, but it would still be a cliché of “The Wicked Stepmother”. One thing is certain she would severely punish her children who had contact with him and would emotionally manipulate them to hate, fear and despise Jon.
The Stark children would be different too. Maybe some would be less moral and ethical. What would become of Rob would also be very different, since his mother would spoil him a lot and he might not even become Jon's friend. Theon would be in an even more dangerous situation, sending a Greyjoy to be in the custody of a Lannister, after they attacked Lannisport, is not a safe idea. The boy would probably suffer “accidents”.
She would also not allow herself to be referred to as Cersei Stark, Lady Stark. She would always insist on still being a Lannister and calling her Stark would be an insult to her.
What about Ned? He is a good man, good ruler, good husband, good dad. How would that affect the scenario?
@ He would have serious problems with Cersei and would even be melancholic, believing that his own wife hates him and that he condemned them both to this hell. He would not love her and their relationship would not be good.
However, he would still be Ned, honorable and respectful to Cersei, which might make her at least not want to kill him at the right time. Maybe she would even respect him, as much as possible.
@thedrinkinggamemaker9749 The thing with Cersei is she is not particularly worried about her husband being a good person. Yes, one who mistreats her or brings shame publicly is distressing to her, but she is unlikely to care for him just because he's a good man. While her years with Robert hardened her, she was already an abusive narcissist long before that. I imagine she would view Ned as rather simple and set about trying to manipulate him. He may try to be a good husband, and even feel bad for her and want to help her at first, but I imagine once he saw who she was he would struggle to feel any real affection for her.
I do think their children would be more spoiled then the Stark children from canon, but I don't believe they would be anything like Joffrey. Ned as an involved father who instills his principles in them would curb that kind of behaviour.
@@missmay713 Perhaps the Stark children would become less innocent and more aware of the malice of others, as well as understanding the Southern mentality more adequately.
@@dllpsexactly lol Cat did not prepare Sansa for life AT ALL lol its a miracle Arya had the sense she had lol
Interesting two point that could come up: little finger would now hate the king, and the some of the stark kids would have multiple wolves? Or maybe ned and cersei?
Oh wow! You’re right! Cat may not try to kill Robert but Littlefinger absolutely would!
You're right there. I can absolutely see Littlefinger scheming to get rid of Robert. Both to get Catelyn for himself and because he would be offended by the king constantly cheating on and potentially mistreating the woman he "loves"
She’d become even more crazy just bc of cold alone
I feel like Cersei goes nowhere regardless there’s nothing for her to do it brandon stark has nothing for her
@@nathanpilakowski6282 Id legit think she would off herself after being depressed. Seeing how far she'd be from the people she knew like Jaime, Her father, and anything Lannister.
Idk man… Tormund’s got a couple pretty good suggestions for how to warm up in the cold and I can assume Cersei’d be down with at least one of them 😂
@@cloverazar5315okay, but what’s the second one?😅
Who knows, Cersei might mellow out a bit living in the North with a husband that isn’t horrible. Though I think Tywin would still be ambitious and incite unrest then back Stark’s claim to the throne in some way.
Look at the map, it's pretty plain to see why Tywin would want the Tully Alliance. The whole of the Riverlands. Especially if you consider how other lesser Lanisters were marrying into the houses around those places. Simply an extension of influence.
The thing is, I don’t see her trying to seduce her brother. Ned is a good husband and part of the reason she did seduce her brother was because her original husband Robert was not pulling out.
@TheUnseenPath iirc during the flashback in the book Cersei was banging Jaime since they were kids after seeing 2 people go at it. I think the book was Feast for Crows but possibly a Storm of Swords.
Cat’s problem wasn’t the cheating (she expected it honestly), but the fact that Ned kept his bastard close to home. Robert doesn’t keep his bastards around. While she will be uncomfortable with the cheating and whoring and what not, as long as her heirs are safe and undisputed, she would care.
Would Jon Arryn even need to be replaced? Wasn’t he killed because he suspected the children were bastards
Not exactly, Arryn was killed because Littlefinger wanted a war among the Great Houses, so he made it appear that the Lannisters killed him because he was about to find out the truth about Cersei's children.
Jon Arryn's murder also happened in large part because he was planning to send off his son Robert as a ward to Stannis Baratheon, which Lysa absolutely would not accept
Littlefinger
Poor Ned. The man would be drinking as much if not more than Robert.
I don't think he will become drunkard, but he will be very irritated most of the times.
Women☕
Cersei's greater hostility to Jon might actually be enough to motivate Ned to just tell her the truth. That would calm her down, but years later after Ned is executed I can see this causing problems because at that point Cersei want to scheme to use Jon as a means to greater power.
I think in order to get in Tywin's good graces, Robert would retire Jaime from the King's guard, and Jaime wouldn't really care as much to stay without Cersie there
If Tywin was so smart and strategic, he would’ve wed Jaime to Catelyn and sent Cersei to marry Ned in the North. If he'd paid attention, he would’ve realized Cersei wasn't as politically savvy as he was and that her attitude would bring trouble for their family in the future if she wasn’t brought to heel. Ned wouldn’t have abused or neglected Cersei, but he also wouldn’t have put up with her nonsense. Catelyn is all about her family's motto and being a proper highborn lady, so her loyalty to Jaime as his wife wouldn’t have been in question. This would've given Tywin an alliance with the North, which is the largest kingdom in Westeros, and the Riverlands, which is one of the more fertile kingdoms when it comes to growing food. Cersei had a low cunning, but she had no business being anywhere near a throne. Nor should she have ever been given a crown. She lacked the traits necessary to be a good queen. She also put her entire family at risk by passing her brother's bastards off as a king's children-an act of treason. Had the truth been revealed sooner, Robert would’ve probably tried to wipe out the entire Lannister family, and would've had the right to execute Cersei for being an unfaithful wife. This would likely leave Robert to marry Lysa, which would've been a match made in the seven hells.
What if Ned never had robb and passed Jon as his true born son?
What if Robert took Jon Snow in as a deathbed wish from Lyanna Stark?
Edit:
I didn’t say he had to be kind to Jon. Knowing Rob, he would likely abuse Jon and treat him even worse than Tywin treated Tyrion because of who Jon’s father is. However, if Lyanna begged Rob to take care of him, maybe he would agree, given how much he loved her.
As for Ned, perhaps Robb would still be born, and Ned could pass Jon off as a true Stark but as a second-born son instead, after getting him legitimized.
Trueborn son of who???
@@Aaron_Guest Ned
The Jon one is out of character for Ned to force Cat to take on Jon, the only way is for him to tell her about Jon’s true identity so maybe.
The Rob taking on Jon one is more plausible, if Rob isn’t as hurt and goes with Ned to the Tower. Rob would have 2 emotions either rage and wanting to kill Jon or sorrow and wanting to honor the wish. It depends on how she tells him cause Rob would be pissed if she was in love with Rhaegar and the war was all for nothing. But if it’s a grape type thing and she has Rob see Jon as her blood so he’s a part of her, then he might be more open to taking in Jon or Aegon.
@@Sad_Boy_Konrad_Curze12 What woman??? Cat won't go for it, nor would it be believed.
@@Sad_Boy_Konrad_Curze12 Go EAD
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?
What if Jamie & Tywin Lannister knows about Jon Snow?
What if Ned won against Jamie at the Tower Of Joy?
What if Gerold Hightower kill The Mad King Aerys-II while Jamie was at the Tower Of Joy?
What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion?
What if Robert Baratheon has a Trueborn daughter by Cersei Lannister?
What if the Cordyceps from *The Last Of Us* was in Westeros?
Jamie was never at the Tower of Joy.
@
What if Jaime was at the tower of joy and Ned defeated him?
Jaime was never at the Tower of Joy, that was Arthur Dayne.
@@discountplaguedoctor88
*What if*
@@matheusdemello2323 Should've listed that specific what if earlier then.
In a fanfic I saw about Ned x Cersei, Cersei treats Jon well but because she discovers his truth much earlier, through Howland, and plans to use him as a card if necessary, although in the end she sees him with some affection and Jon thinks of her as a mother, and the children Cersei has with Ned also see him as a brother, but that fanfic was clearly a mirror fanfic.
Leaving that aside, I think that Ned, in order to keep his promise, would have brought him with him, but he wouldn't say that he's his son... I think that telling Cersei that would seriously put Ned's life at risk, and there are other alternatives to say that would be safer for Jon.
Something I find interesting about this alternate scenario is that both Stark and Lannister are based off of real houses and people.
York and Lancaster who fought during England's Wars of the Roses from 1455 to 1485. And it did eventually end with the Marriage of Henry VII to Elizabeth of York, beginning the Tudor Dynasty.
I don’t think Ned actually becomes hand of the king in this timeline because there’s no reason for Jon Arryn to be killed. I’d also be surprised if Cersei became the same cold person she did because a lot of that comes from how Robert treated her. Ned isn’t Robert though. I do think she’d be much more pissed about John Snow but I hope Ned would recognize that beforehand and hopefully say it’s his brother’s son or at least have someone else in Winterfell raise him.
I feel Jon would go for the throne, he lived up to Cats house words so this time he would live up to Cersei's house words and he would probably live up to the prophecy.
What if Robert named Stannis hand instead of Ned?
Renly is more likely. Robert and Stannis never liked each other
16:33 the books make sure to hammer home that Cat's problem with Jon is that she is treated like he is true born, and that she would have been fine with him having hundreds of batards as log as she could not see them. So no I don't think this would be as much of a problem. She fears that Jon may out claim her children, she knows that because the exact number of Robert's bastards and their names an locations. they would pose no threatto her children.
I think things would work out for them. Jon would be sent to the wall and the years of being a good husband would help mend things between them. Not to mention, she'd probably train in combat as to not be completely bored. And as time goes on her family colors will fade more and more with Stark colors replacing them.Till they go to King's Landing, where Jamie would try to get it on with her. Even reminding her of Ned "cheating" on her. Something like this. J: Sister, it's been years since we've seen each other. Why don't we catch up? (Jamie makes a move to kiss her) (Cersei shoves him away) C: Yes. And not a single raven from you or father. Almost as if I didn't exist. J: I tried. Father and the king kept me busy. (Jamie makes another move with a smug look) J: But, you're hear now and there is much to makeup for. (Cersei shoves him once again) C: Things are different now Jamie. I am wed with children. J: And?
C: And, I will not betray Ned. (Walks around him toward a table to pour wine for herself) (Jamie walks behind her with a look of annoyance) J: Is this the same honnorable Ned Stark that brought home a bastard? (Cersei puts down her cup, turns around and slaps Jamie) (Jamie tumbles a bit from the slap with a look of surprise as he puts a hand to his slaped cheek while looking at her) J: Well sister, what a surprise. You manged to move me a bit. Seems your time in the North was well spent. C: He made a mistake. And that mistake has been taken care of. (Jamie straightenes himself out) J: Ah. Yes. The wall. A perfect place for all unwanted bastards. Who knows how many he has there? (Cersei walks towards Jamie with a look of anger) C: Careful brother. You do best not to anger a wolf. (Jamie looks at her with a teasingly rasied eyebrow) J: A wolf now? (Jamie laughs) J: By the gods. I never thought I'd see the day Cersei Lanister, would trade her mane for fleas. (Cersei walks toward the door and stops right infront of it to turn around to at look at Jamie) C: Better to have fleas and be honorable. Then to have a mane and not have any at all. Isn't that right Kingslayer? (Cersei turns around, opens and walks out the door)
One thing that would be interesting is what happen between Catelyn and Littlefinger. If she’s left in a loveless marriage in King’s Landing and he stays at court to make his fortune, she might eventually be drawn into the “comforting” arms of a childhood friend…
I honestly cannot believe anything would come from it, though I agree Littlefinger would try his best. First because Catelyn cared for Littlefinger as a brother, and I doubt loniness would make her go for a man she viewed as a family member. But also because Catelyn embodies her house words of "Family, Duty, Honour" to her core. I cannot believe she would never break her marriage vows and duty as a wife.
A what if Agegon the uncrowed defeated Maegor the cruel would be very cool
Damn the entire genetic line changes
Re Robert marrying Catlyn - Robert’s brother, Renly would put House Tyrell front and centre for resources. Robert would marry Margaery.
When I saw this I went “oh no Jon”
Nice what if! I would have liked to see, how Littlefinger would have tried to destabilize the realm and apply his "chaos is a ladder".
What if Jaime married Lyanna Stark
Cersei Lady of Winterfell ? R I P Jon
Another scenario that I could see where Ned and Cersei marry is if Lyanna survived childbirth but Catelyn didn't. I believe that Lyanna would still have sent Jon with Ned to protect him, but would have married Robert to increase that protection. In this scenario, there wouldn't be very many noblemen left for Cersei to marry. I also believe that Tywin would play the long game and press for a pact of a future marriage between Cersei/Ned's daughter and Robert/Lyanna's son to marry so that one of Cersei's children could potentially still end up as Queen.
Have everything proceed the same until after brandon dies. Have Aerys call for aid from the westerlands. When Tywin does nothing he kills Jamie in his madness, prompting him to join the rebellion in revenge and have catelyn marry robert and cersei marry ned. Without jamie the marriage could possibly work.
Robert doesn’t acknowledge his bastards and she is ok as long as they are not around
Ned would actually be loyal to her which at least in the show Cersei tried to love Robert but he was to disloyal to her
I feel this needs a part 2
If Robert married Catelyn, Littlefinger 100% plotting Robert’s death to make him look like he’s rescuing Cate from an awful marriage
For part 2
I think if the King kills Brandon and he’s married/betrothed to Cersei, Tywin will have a strong excuse to oppose the king and back the rebels immediately. However I think he might be in a good position to make a grab for the throne himself.
16:20 I think Cat might not mind Robert's indefinitely that much precisely because his children are all scattered in the winds so to speak, what made her resent Jon is the fact that he was living under her roof, he wasn't just a bastard, he was a recognised bastard who looked just like his father and was well known and well liked by Ned's bannermen, not to mention he was getting the same education as her children both by maesters and swordmasters, all of this together means he could potentially gather an army and become a threat to her children's claim to Winterfell after Ned's death, and even if she knows Jon loves his siblings too much to even consider trying to steal their inheritance from them there's no way to predict what his potential children would do, they could try to raise arms against Cat's grandchildren.
Cat's hate for Jon is a product of her anxiety, which is very realistic given the recent history of her world, she is much more politically aware than her husband (she was raised as her father's heir after all and Ned wasnt) she remembers what happened the last time a bastard of a great house was given as much privilege as his true born brothers (a civil war)
In her first pov chapter she says she wouldn't care if Ned had a dozen bastards as long as he kept them far away, if he married Robert who gets women pregnant and then instantly forgets about them and their babies she would be okay with that as that's something she would expect from any husband of noble birth
The only one she would have a problem with is Edric Storm because his mother is highborn and therefore Robert was forced to acknowledge him meaning he could potentially be a threat to her children, but she would be less anxious about him because Edric lives far away and Robert clearly has no interest in him
Those that curios, there's a fanfic of this... Called "Lady Stark" by jpena
Please Consider these:
What if Stannis Baratheon won the Battle of the Blackwater and became King?
What if Robb Stark married Myrcella Baratheon?
What if Jon Snow was born a girl?
What if Daenerys died shortly after being born just like prince Baelon in house of the Dragon?
What if Ned Stark had turned down King Robert's offer to become Hand of the King?
I think you missed a big ramification of this; Catelyn marrying Robert puts her in the direct path of Littlefinger much, much earlier. He was *obsessed* with her, and believed they slept together. No *way* that doesn't end up exploding at some point over the years.
Personally cersei and Ned make sense. Because if catlin's still being married after the elder star Robert still going to be paired off with Liana and the heir to the reach I believe was a bit older than them so he's probably already married off. That only really leaves stanis and Ned and I think stanis is too uptight even for tywin lol and that's actually a good person can possibly deal with cersei and get her to chill the fuck out. Plus Jamie's not going to be there so no twinsect.
And you can also always swing oh Ned and cersei become the Lords of castily Rock but the only way that happens is if their children take the name of Lannister because of course Taiwan doesn't want Tyrion to be Lord can't have that and Jamie's currently occupied and refusing to give up the white cape
But then you got during and after the rebellion. Most likely tywin seeing the ned in the throne room in the King dead would probably convince Ned to take the throne instead of Robert because Rob's already fucked up and then he got the Lannisters behind you so he'd probably take over because then cerse becomes queen and she becomes all happy. Robert probably marries Catlin then and then John probably still marries her sister. And I'd imagine Ned and cersei probably have one true-born kid before the incest starts because then their king queen and Jamie's right there pumping from behind lol😅
And then you could always say the Ned sends John back to winterfield to be raised by benjam and benjin is sitting lowered in the meantime. And you could always say oh it's benjin's bastard child and then possibly legitimize him
I can hear the screams of the damned.
Poor Ned.
Thanks For this ❤❤❤❤
Ned would join the Wall
Honestly reading the title I just think they would be upset, so finding the important details like no War of 5 Kings is good. I wonder who Baelish would try to set up as being an enemy.
WHAT IF...
Myrcella survived being poisoned?
Euron killed Balon before Theon first return home?
Ramsey missed Rickon?
Margaery escaped the Wild Fire?
Robert's marksmanship is unmatched
The drama on this one.. 😄😄
One thing I feel the scenario skipps out on a bit is Tywin trying to push Ned to the throne.
In the main timeline we're told that Robert does not want the throne and tried to push it on Ned, but he redused because of a lack of claim. Cercei wanted to be Queen and Tywin wanted controll over the throne. I can see both trying to manipulate Robbert into giving up the throne using his hatred of targeryans.
"The Starks are the only one's without targeryan blood, they should rule by that right."
This could be a timeline where anti-targeryan revisionism is pushed 100 times harder with all all the Targeryan buildings renamed, etc.
I feel in this case of events Cercei would still cheat with her brother on Ned. Jamie would be kicked out of the Kingsguard by Ned for breaking his oath, but would be spared after some sort of symbolic punishment. John Snow would be much more of a black horse however because once it's turns out that all of Ned's heirs are bastards... he'd be the closest thing to an Heir as Ned lacks truborn children and his closest trueborn relatives are Uncles or cousins at best.
What if Rhaenyra married a Prince of Dorne?
Far, far more people would rise up against her
Marge and Robert in this time line 🦌🏵️
What if Renly supported Stannis's claim to the Iron Throne?
The Tully's definitely would've come to the side of the rebels, if only because they'd be surrounded by the North, Westerlands, and the Vale and wouldn't want to risk fighting them basically alone.
not trying to nitpick here, but i thought i should point out that Tywin was trying to marry Cersei to Willas Tyrell, not Loras
If Brandon had survived the execution of his father he would have married Cat and inherited winterfell. Then, when the Great Council chose Robert to be king Robert would have given Ned Dragonstone instead of stannis. Stanis would keep storms end and would not resent Robert as much. Ned would keep the direwolf as his Sigel but adopt the Targaryen colour scheme Meanwhile Jon Snow would have been raised at dragonstone in his Ansestial seat. And Jon Arryn would suggest that Robert marry The Lannisters but instead would make his friend do it. Ned would frequent court. And without cersei poisoning his soul would end up a much better king. Cersei's children would still be jamies. And the book would still proove it. Stannis and ned would become close friends with similar temperments. But the real question is who would Robert marry here?
So for this timeline to work it would mean that Ned would either have to lose his first wife in some freak accident be it natural or not before the rebellion or that he would have two wives. I feel like they would actually be rather well fitting together just Ned was already married at the point in time so he wasnt an option for Cersei. What I mean is, while Cersei did always want to be queen, she also cares deeply for her family/children and so does Ned. Also if were building off the fact that Tywin carried about making allies without regards to who the allies are, it make sense to make an ally with the future "king of the north"
thanks for creating this theory
Pls make a part 2
I imagine robb stark would be blonde in this timeline
When I first read this I couldn’t stop laughing bc of how crazy that relo could’ve been
Now here's an idea, what if Cersei is betrothed to Brandon and both being two wild and passionate people, they don't wait for a wedding to end up sleeping together resulting in Cersei having a son by Brandon before he is killed.
I dont think Cerci would brood if Ned went to kings landing without her.i think the shit would hit the fan. I think she would take the opportunity to increase her influence in the north. She would likely murder John at this point without Ned around to keep her in check. She would probably still try to form alliances in the north with people like the Boltons. As for her reasons, she's Cerci,she doesn't need a reason beyond because she has the power to do it. Lets face it, without a reason to sceam, Cerci would be board and would probably drink herself to death with shades of the evening wine, with a double dose of milk of the poppey.
I think ned and cersei would have gotten along well tbh. Ned is everything cersei wanted out of robert except for the body
In this timeline, I think both sets of children will grow to resent their parent however. Cersei will manipulate her kids to hate Ned, and without Cateline to teach their kids the value of family, these children will be more distant to one another, like how Cerseis original kids were. And Cateline will instill the value of family into her kids with Robert, who will grow to resent their father for cheating on their mother and probably for neglect aswell.
Very good wish it was longer
What if Brandon Stark and Elbert Arryn were stopped by Rickard Stark? With Rickard going to the Red Keep in their stead ?
"She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned's sake, so long as they were out of sight" - A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II
I think Catelyn would be fine with Roberts cheating and bastards as long as her children had a politically promising future. She saw Jon as a threat to that from her prejudices against bastards.I don't think Cat+Robert would be loving, but it would work. Two people at court not interacting too much, except ruling the realm together and producing princes and princesses out of duty, not love.
When it comes to Ned+Cersei, I think Cersei would have had Jon killed, and that would be the end of the marriage. Not sure what Ned would do to end it, but I can't imagine Cersei would have permission to have any power at all and Ned would probably be public about how she is not to be obeyed too.
Interestingly Kat doesn’t have a problem with the infidelity she has a problem with the fact Ned goes above what is normal for his bastard son.
its blowing to know that had rhaegar married cersei lannister the targaryen family wouldnt have been killed.
Elbert Arryn (Jon Arryn's Heir) died at the battle of the bells? I thought he died in King's Landing with Brandon Stark? I'm confused.
There was another guy, Denys Arryn, who was heir after Elbert died. Denys is the one who died during the Battle of the Bells.
Minor correction, because you might have misspoke. But Brandon was the older brother.
Between Ned being too trusting and “honorable”, and Cersei being too stupid for her constant manipulation to be successful, they’d be dead within a year 😂
It would be good, if Ned told Cersey, that John is son of his sister.
Just to protect John from her, and ask her to be silent about it.
But will be treated like bastard.
It would be nice Cersey growing close with John Snow, knowing the truth.
So I think my ideas for a what if are:
What if Robert proposed a marriage between Robb and Myrcella instead of Joffrey and Sansa? (Maybe with Myrcella as the oldest Sibling similar to your Tommen born first video.)
What if Robert stripped Jaime of his Gold Cloak? (Ideally, Robert still pardons Jaime, but he relieves him of his duties for being an Oathbreaker)
What if Lyanna Stark was married to Rhaegar instead of Elia Martell?
What if Stannis won the Battle of the Blackwater? (ie, Tywin and the Vale never managed to be the Calvary.0
What if Aemond didn't kill Lucerys?
What if Viserys decided to forsake his duties and not remarry at all?
I see them actually making a really good pair. They’d probably empower each other, I bet she’d be told Jon’s parentage and pull the strings to get him on the throne with her daughter as queen.
Yeah, someone else pointed out that littlefinger would probably try to kill Robert due to him having married catalyn, and Cersi being Cersi, would keep Jon in her back pocket after having learned who he really is, to install him on the throne when the time is right to ensure the stark and lannisters have power over the 7 kingdoms, but especially strong bases in the north and westerlands. Would be quite the powerhouse
John aaron's nephew and air died when brandon stark was captured because he was a squire
The only way Cersei would’ve been betrothed to Ned is if he took the iron throne. Tywin wanted his daughter to be queen no matter the cost!
He'd be dead, poisoned like Jon Arryn or something. Cersei wouldn't care for all his notions of honor and such so.
Cersei “hubby, you win or you die when you pla….”
Ned *smack “b*tch behave”
And she would be a loyal wife of the north.😂🎉
Don't be daft, Ned doesn't hit😅
Ned is far too honourable to strike his wife. Besides, Robert did that on many occasions and look how well that worked.
No doubt about it guys. It’s just a dumb off hand comment.👏
p.s he also wouldn’t say….”b*tch behave” ether but you big brains probably got that already.
What if the ancient Starks didn’t burn their northern fleet? Would the Starks and the north be even more powerful with the ability to have their own trading deals with Essos and the ability to more quickly deploy armies in the GoT world without that several month of hike over the Trident and thru the Neck?
Would have been better if Oberyn married Cersei, as they tried to arrange it when they were kids. If only Tyrion wasn't born as he was, Martell's wouldn't take it as an insult to marry off Ellaria later to him. Southern alliance would look crazy good, and North in general would be more defiant.