3MT: Anonymous for the Voiceless Loses Millions & Joey Carbstrong
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- Three Minute Thursdays // Episode 64 Sept 23, 2020:
Anonymous for the Voiceless loses millions in funding rather than informing the donor of how they were actually spending it - I'm breaking down your questions, AV's 70 minute explanation video and giving my cranky hot take on it all. Plus, why in the hell is Joey Carbstrong wrapped up in this?!
Jump ahead!
1) Your Questions - 01:05
2) What In The Hell Happened?! - 02:37
3) Keep It Cranky - 09:10
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➡ Twitter: / _jakeconroy
➡ Joey Carbstrong And Save Tried To Get AV Cancelled:
• Joey Carbstrong And Sa...
➡ Joey Carbstrong's Response:
docs.google.co...
#Vegan #AnimalRights #TheCrankyVegan
How would you invest $1.5 million annually into activism?
Billboards
Farm sanctuaries, and lawyer/politicians. Change laws, and educate people :-)
james aspey's Onlyfans
I need those really chill vibes
I can’t even conceive that much money. Definitely into grassroots organizations both nationally and locally rather than these corporate-like organizations. I’d definitely like to see more energy put into education in understanding what veganism is (an extension of social justice rather than a diet or consumer choice). legal funds for activists. sanctuaries and folks who care for the animals who are liberated.
but on a serious note, i'd hire lawyers to look for small ways to levy fines and restrictions on animal farms which are technically breaking established laws to hurt their industry in small but meaningful ways
Grassroots not cashroots
Crops not shops
Liberation involves everyone and everything being free
#grassrootsnotcashroots 🥰💚
I'd like to know how much Paul and Asal have been paying themselves.
Good luck with that!
@@tamcon72 anonymous donations for the voiceless
@@VeganRevolution I laughed despite myself!
Lots! Imho😃😃😃
I'd be willing to bet that they aren't living lavishly. The more important question here is what $$$ is Joey Carbstrong getting from the same donor. Keeping up with the whole transparency theme here.
If I had millions of dollars to give to activism, the majority would go into supporting sanctuaries. The rest would be divided between political and law driven activism, and independent/ local activist groups. No individuals sorry not sorry lol.
Exactly
Totally agree 👍🏻
More sanctuaries, taking up more land and resources that the planet is running out of. This is an emotional reaction, not a practical one. The only solution is to stop breeding these animals into existence, not supporting more of them.
@@Flobb1t I technically said supporting sanctuaries not investing in new ones. And of course the goal would be to stop breeding animals all together but that obviously won't happen if people are still eating them. And I'm pretty sure sanctuaries aren't the main contributors to lack of land and resources.
@@CRM-114 There is no hard proof that that is the only way to make real change, when it comes to animals rights. I think if we were to only focus on changing individuals it would take us way too long to make change, that doesn't mean I don't value changing individuals. As long as the government helps animal ag it won't really matter if more people go vegan. Farmers will still have incentive to kill animals and so far from research done by Agricultural Fairness Alliance, the growth of vegans have not meant less animals being killed.
IMAGINE IF WE PUMPED THAT INTO LOBBYING TO END ANIMAL AG SUBSIDIES. Then supply & demand will actually work.
Thanks for all that you do. I've attended your activism before (Down With Dairy). Be safe 🌱✌.
Also political lobbying varies around the world. Many comments seem to be specific to North America. The amount specified here is a pittance of what would be given on a regular basis to government bodies in lobbying and subsidies? Especially from organizations who wish to undermine veganism. And yes, we are all falling for it, as this 'bickering' shows!! We are all as bad as each other!!
Andrea is correct, without a change in subsidies laws, going vegan makes zero difference. Organisations like the vegan society are starting to be included in agriculture consultations in the UK, so yes, it is worth the investment into shifting policy. It's the only way to get changes to the laws, whilst grass roots activists carry on educating others.
I was a co-organizer for AV in Cape Town, South Africa 3 years ago. To my knowledge, the Cape Town Chapters (we had two) never received any funding from AV, nor did any other Chapter in South Africa. They did allow us to print their logo on our own T-shirts instead of buying their merchandise because of unfavourable currency conversion and customs fees.
how kind
Melbourne doesn't even get funding. Where AV originated.
I just found out my friend is an organizer in Slovenia, but there is also zero funding. He promised to organise 2 cubes a month and he has to do it all for free and get donations on his own. He works a normal job during the day and looks like he slaves away for an organisation getting millions of dollars in his free time. This is infuriating.
I like your content, very informative and useful. I was accepted as a chapter organiser for my local city for AV so I gave a shout out on the local city vegan Facebook group only to be met with activists strongly against AV, I wasn’t sure why, but your content was linked to me and it was helpful in making the decision to not rep AV and instead just do the same form of activism.... I mean why not? it’s easy to set up and I got more volunteers also.
Agreed - no one is saying don't do outreach, and even AV has said if you want to do it without their logos or approach, then people should. And I agree.
I was an organizer in FL. Knew most other organizers in the state. Never heard of anyone ever getting a dime from HQ. But they did try to yank away our donations after we ditched the AV branding when we found out how screwed up they were. We gave the money back to the donors who then gave it to local sanctuaries.
The organizational structure of AV basically comes down to a series of facebook pages. Not even regional organizers are paid. Photographers donate their photos. I think their 30 "employees" is either a gross obfuscation of the truth or a complete fabrication, and I can think of zero legitimate reasons they would need that money to run their operation, but plenty of illegitimate reasons.
They need to be investigated by the Australian government.
It was really disappointing to see AV had around 2100 sign ups, I personally had over thousand people in two years, who shared their phone number with me to help them go vegan and I had no external funding.
I for one live in a small town in a small country. I'm currently studying in a "larger" city, and the only organized animal rigths community here is an anonymous for the voiceless group. I joined it last week and it was wonderfull and transformative. I held the screen and was pleasantly shocked at the ammount of positive reactions and public support. If anything it restored my faith in humanity a little. I don't agree or disagree strongly with AV's method. It's just another thing to try and to do. Change needs to happen on every level of institution for any meaningful change in laws. I do however mind lack of transparancy in ideal organizations.
Chortling my way thru this. High 5 for going thru their video. I gave up after 15 minutes of self-serving, inarticulate, clearly (badly) preplanned to appear spontaneous schlock. More like this. Where did you get the AV spreadsheets from?
This makes my stomach hurt :( My career and my firm are dedicated to insuring nonprofits comply with laws in order to protect their mission and overall movement. The behavior your describing is suspect at best, and at least in the US could easily put their organization under government scrutiny. That's not good for them or the movement as a whole, shines a bad light on everyone.
Honestly, I'm a supervisor for Challenge 22 and I don't see the people signing up for C22 coming from street outreach events...
What are in your opinion & experience the top 2-3 sources from where people sign up for C22? I'd like to know where these plant-based enthusiasts/vegans come from.
@@umm_rit_ I honestly just think its word of mouth through social media or their own friends/family. A lot of the participants we get make posts in the groups saying their family member told them to sign up or their friend did.
There used to be an alternative link redirecting to challenge 22 for AV use only. Every month, Asal would post the number of people who entered the challenge through that link, in the AV organiser group. There were quite a few. But maybe that was only a fraction of the people joining from online.
@@crispsaturday // I believe that's what's used in my video.
@@thecrankyvegan ok sorry I haven't got there yet, still watching! :D
Wow this is absolutely incredible. The Boulder chapter and Denver chapter of AV were so underfunded that they constantly asked the community to chip in for TVs, speakerphones, masks, and supplies .. Not only did I spend my time doing activism at cubes but I also freaking donated so much money constantly to buy items. As recent as mid 2019.
This is absolutely sickening. These people need to come forth with a complete financial breakdown of their donations cause trashing Joey on their socials isn’t doing it for me.
Either come clean or get investigated but something isn’t right.
the 3 chapters most local to me all have their own donation pages,
barely any of their own TV's
everyone's asked to bring their own stuff...
Can second this...people have stood in cubes with tiny iPads and cell phones...they probably have a couple of TVs.
I know nothing about it, but if I had 1,3 Million to spend in animal rights, I would pay lobbyists in politics.
Some great arguments!
I don't know much about AV and they probably shouldn't have accepted that kind of money.
But I do think that they are being wronged against this time.
1. The donor didn't put any of his conditions in the agreement. Basically, AV could have spent the donation as they pleased. Additional conditions weren't agreed upon.
He could just have taken the money elsewhere.
2. Paul agreed to a third party professional audit, but the donor insisted on Joey. I find that very muddy.
3. What kind of friend asks for your bank login?! Why didn't bank statements suffice?! It is very suspicious. Would you share your bank login with anyone? Who is Joey going to audit next - Ed Winters?! He should have stayed away from it and in my sweet dreams. His statement is a joke.
4. Who the hell is this misterious donor and why is his privacy being respected, when he is such a big influence on the animal liberation movement?! We should know who is pulling the strings, not being kept in the dark.
BR!
If ai might add, I find your stance a bit conflicting. On one side you state that big money is bad, on the other that it is influential. Why not use the money in AR lobby? It is the world we live and we fight in. I don't think we can change the system fast enough to save the animals and the planet. Onvthe pessimistic note, it might be the only way.
The only true way to measure is supply and demand. The grocery stores are absolutely supplying more vegan options than ever before.
Sketchy af.
Reading between the lines on both accounts of the situation, the donor, the AV directors and JC all acted shady and unprofessionally imo. James Aspey’s probably been surfing and chillin’ on the beach this week marvelling at his luck that something came along to take the heat off him. lol
hahahaha i was just thinking that!
What happened with him? I keep seeing references but not the story?!
Hello, From what I can see and hear, you are an intelligent and sincere person. Here, you make some valid points regarding things that should indeed be examined. I will note, however, a missing element and a major flaw. The latter is that the "statistics" look quite incorrect or at least under-reported and potentially misleading, based upon experience. The former, the missing element, is your direct experience with AV outreach. I have been both an educator and a vegan for over 20 years, and I have been blown away regarding the power of cubes to awaken people's compassion regarding animal suffering. I have had so many profound, sincere conversations that have led to change for the animals. Seeds are planted, lives are transformed, over and over. I am continually encouraged by the effectiveness of every AV cube I have done, and similar experiences are seen throughout the world. Therefore, I encourage you to do a video on the effectiveness of these peaceful and artistic outreach experiences regardless of the politics and human errors potentially committed at the top. I'm grateful this tool was created, and with appreciation for the opportunity and determination for the suffering animals I will continue to create value through cubes. Here is a video of our most recent outreach. I hope you can be inspired. Thanks. ruclips.net/video/wqIA3k10JkU/видео.html
Thank you, one of your best videos so far!
Thanks!
Im shocked at the numbers presented. We had more than 200 people signing up for 30-day vegan challenge (the national version) one year and I live in one of the smallest european countries - Slovenia. It was all done basically for free.
This may have been mentioned already, but wanted to bring it up in case it hasn't. I am a former AV organizer and diehard, and I agree with pretty much all of the points you made in this video. The one thing I will say is that in cities like NYC (where I've done several cubes, including everyday of the week of truth) the majority of the people I have spoken to are tourists who don't live in New York (or they live in nearby NJ, Long Island, Connecticut etc,) which is part of the reason why the number is so low. And I think that's the case for a lot of the other big cities that have a lot of tourists as well. Does your point still stand that the number is significantly less than what they make it out to be? Absolutely. Are we going to be able to simply "talk our way into animal liberation," again, I agree, there's much more to it. But that was one small point I wanted to make, at the risk of looking like I'm defending AV, which I'm not.
I've known many A.V. organizers (and still know those who haven't resigned) and they all had to pay out of their own pockets to set up the chapters.
Yes. This is the case for all of the chapters in Colorado USA. Started and funded by broke college students
Thanks for sayiny, almost wanted to start a nee chapter here in The Netherlands lol
I heard joey and av what's going on it feels like av is hiding money
Certainly sounds that way...
Crazy its as if av has something to hide maybe they travel and use the donor's money to live in style all sounds very suspicious
Certainly sounds that way if you accept speculation and accusations before an independent audit and without any evidence of misconduct
If we are demanding transparency from AV, then who is this posh doner? The biggest obstacle to transparency, is capitalism. Being held accountable, is a socialist ideal, and people like their privileges and privacy. Your suggestion to make AV a co-op is brilliant, and would be the only option to save the movement, if that is where their passion lies. Thanks for your thoughts on the situation.
They don't need saving. They will carry on with their movement.
@@jonjonwp There is a lot of value of what AV has already done. For them to be "cancelled" would be irresponsible and harmful to the movement.
@@stephss They have said they will not be working with this donor now. They have no intention of being cancelled and already are moving on.
"I don't know if it does any good, but I know that doing nothing does no good" -Regan Russell
Did they just talk about themselves in the third person?
lots of vloggers start doing this - and also referring to themselves as WE
Ha, I was one of the people who said "you don't offer any solutions" :) your instagram account and your content in general gave me a lot to think about. Thanks!
They kicked me out of AV while I was in hospital after 2 major surgeries because I wasn’t able to commit to anything due to surgery. Then asked me while I was recovering “how long will you be till recovered” and “can you do a cube this month” bare in mind I was still in hospital with infections and blood clots
why is this guy not donating his 1.5 mil to agriculture fairness alliance? we need subsidies ended to animal ag.
Can vegans outspend animal agriculture?
@@vandelayindustries5814No
@@petter3995 I spent half a day looking into Agriculture Fairness Alliance and they seem totally fraudulent
@@vandelayindustries5814 Agree, they get 2 billion dollars from the government each year.
@@petter3995 doesn't make sense
I have just discovered you and seems you may become one of my favourite. I don't understand why such small channels like yours (or even mine ;) ) are more interesting than those big ones with massive funding? If I were a donor I would definitely invest into such small channels with high potencial and unique insight. For small channels it is a question of "to be or not to be" while for those "big" ones.... it is just another $1000. I think that is something that all the vegans should be aware of and feel responsible for. To support activists like you because you are doing something unique which will never be done by massive channels. People are different with so many different views and perspectives. Therefore also our outreach activities should be as diversified as possible. And only niche channels can do it.
And to think that Costa Rica's AV chapter was going to start doing raffles to afford* equipment for cubes 😑
Let's add a....SHAME ON THE DONOR. I get having more money than sense (well, in theory anyway), but AV has been problematic for a very long time and any local organizer could have shared with the donor that the main organizers were not financially supporting the local groups. They quite actually have virtually NO needs for funding, and any funding needs that are present could likely have been covered by merch sales and a small amount of fundraising. So, what was this donor thinking? Did they think they can give a bunch of cash and start dictating the inner workings of an organization? Calm down, mysterious donor. Give a bunch of money to a pack of shysters and you get what you have coming. Shame on the donor, shame on AV, shame on everyone too lazy to do their own advocacy and who need to hide behind the AV banner.
O.K., I'm glad I watched that. Sometimes I have seen you make assertions that are reall not well-founded (as also here that grass-roots organization "should be revolutionary"; even if one can logically argue that animal liberation entails a revolutionary change that doesn't mean that all steps towards that need to be), but this was a very informative video. I knew that there was some kind of feud but had avoided looking into it before. It does make me kinda proud that London is at least the highest but for some time I have felt (as have course have many people) that such outreach is really just a feel-good ego trip that does not have that substantial effect. I'm sure it does have a serious effect on many people who don't do Challenge 22 but look into veganism in other ways, but even if we quadruple the numbers they are small. (Another factor not to be dismissed, though, is that Cubes do get activists involved.) Anyway, I once commented on a video of Asal's outreach that Paul was lauding as exemplary, saying that it really wasn't good, because it wasn't. A couple of times I also highlighted having seen their transphobic messages. So just before the pandemic they petulantly banned me from all Cubes worldwide! (I heard the same day I saw that George Monbiot had quoted me about veganism in the Guardian after we'd been corresponding back and forth for a while, so you can guess how much I cared about the loss of their esteem.) The irony is that I am definitely the person who most shares A.R. events in London, virtually definitely nationwide and pretty likely worldwide (as I have lists for every different part of the world) so they would have shot themselves in the foot were I not the better person and continued to publicize all events (though I do now prioritize non-A.V. ones). (Not sure that actually is irony but I cannot think of another term.) I would also just go to any Cubes I wanted to and stand nearby doing outreach as I wanted to -- not sure why they imagine that they have control over whom the public talks to in the vicinity of their events. I realize that this post is rather self-aggrandizing, like those two and indeed Joey, but what can one do? It was nice to vent. Thanks for the video -- it actually flew by. I'll watch more of yours now.
It is too much of a nice coincidence not to mention that my first RUclips notification after watching this was this one ruclips.net/video/JvT2daG109I/видео.html&lc=UgzydApOyccf5dgp6Ut4AaABAg.9E0ejqx8Goa9EidfVNa-rX, someone after doing the programme thanking me for having previously recommended Challenge 22 to her in an otherwise nasty thread in which people were defending the breeding of pugs &c. (I have my reservations about Challenge 22 too, but I certainly think that in general it's better that someone does it than not.)
(O.K., clicking on that longer link doesn't take one to the specific thread like it does from my notifications, but you get the general idea.)
Looks like that 2 person board of directors found the dislike button
Imagine that, the big RUclips vegans are a bunch a grifters. Color me shocked!
Spot on as always! Thank you Jake!
The biggest take, personally, from all the videos that activists create is that it ultimately helps you navigate your way through the mental gymnastics that you’ll consistently be challenged or confronted with when the topic arises, whether it was health, environment or the animals that first caught your attention of the animal agriculture industry.
The easiest way to figure out how many people you’ve reached and have switched to plant based or vegan is to ask directly. Leave the question at the top of the page and have that be the criteria for entering the site. It’s a simple question to ask and answer.
Seeds are planted and they germinate and sprout at different times/speeds. We can try to determine how many at what speeds but until we have a good measuring tool, it's speculation.. no hard data.. just a guessing game of what works and what doesn't.
EDIT: @2:27:25 ruclips.net/video/vQe-AGDKyzU/видео.html they explain why/when they stopped promoting challenge 22 (stopped almost 2 years ago) So maybe it's not a good way to gauge how many are signing up through AV if they stopped mentioning challenge 22.
I highly recommend that anyone who is still working with AV watches this vidoe
Some VERY good points made in this video! You've certainly given me something to think about 🙏
Gary Yourofsky, come back!!!!!
GY has a relationship with AV
@@om-boi good. Maybe they'll learn something!
The numbers in the spreadsheet are shocking to be honest. Are these actually the numbers from 4 years?
What's the role of the Save Movement in the whole thing?
Save movement have same donor, but ten times more, or sooo AV said in that epic 💤 70 mins 💚
@@VeeTownsend Thanks! What was AV complaining about the Save Movement then? Do they still work with that donor?
What sort of dope donates to an organization without doing their due diligence and learning about the organization? Is there no such thing in Australia as an audit? JFC! I have said this elsewhere, but this is middle school bullshit and I'm cringing at the thought that this may cloud the public perception of veganism as an advocacy movement. Thanks for addressing this in your special cranky way, and TFP!
haha yeah, I work for an org and we do our independent audit every year. Which the findings are then made public so donors and funders and grants can see how money is spent. Maybe that's a US thing? But it should be a common sense thing.
Why do the ones pointing out divisive behaviour end up being blamed for being divisive?
Regardless of the internal skirmish the awareness is growing. Any dollar invested in animal rights whether in fake meat vegan restaurants vegan goods documentaries is appreciated and is having an impact. Combination of education awareness and quality alternatives is moving the dial. Shock to shop.
I'm giving in and watching this one now, but it's sixteen minutes long. I had always assumed that these were three minutes long.
2:13 I agree - I don't think we should hate on the wealthy just for being wealthy - wealth is just a tool - how you use it is something else. There's really bad people who don't depend on money for their wrongdoing, etc. - but no one will bother them - because it isn't cool to. If everyone was wealthy enough to do good in their own way, I'd be happy! I wouldn't be jealous or sad, as I'd have money for my own means too.
$100,000 is not high for an app. It's low. But they shouldn't spend that money on an app. Strategically poor decision.
Also, here's a tip: Most non-profits never move the needle. At all. How many billions are spent to eliminate poverty and homelessness? Is it eliminated? No. Read a case study called "Million Dollar Murray" to really see how futile it all is. Family foundations, especially, are just exercises in ego and reputation. ONE huge caveat is the Gates Foundation. They're purposefully structured to ensure effectiveness and results. And if they don't get results, they stop funding. Unlike many foundations they're also not set up "in perpetuity." Their money ENDS 100 years after the deaths of the founders. It adds URGENCY to what would otherwise be just another futile exercise in rich peoples' "performative philanthropy."
Indeed, there was never a time where I needed an app in order to become more active. Activists are usually well-connected and already use social media for free.
I love me a 16 minute Wednesday! Wow, have a look at those Challenge 22 metrics y’all 👏🏻
Great show-now I am cranky! The data analytics "what the f**k' is describing is a way of feeding into this individual ego-driven narrative where the individual feels some sort of ego rush the more people they get to turn vegan. (which is impossible to actually follow) Ugh. I hope the young people take these major warning signs (AB) among others before following and instead-- listen to the peeps who have been in the AR movement for decades...:-)
I have to subscribe to you. Your critique is valuable. I imagine you've spoken to Eisel Mazard a lot, you guys remind me of each other.
1 person dislike..
P Bash is that you?
Great video. Thanks for sharing!
I think comparing Earthling Ed to Aspey, Carbstrong and AV is unfair. The Surge, of which he is the founder and director, has ran many campaigns in UK (I'd say successful one at that), runs vegan restaurant and seasonal food truck, organizes marches. He's doing far more than just talking to individuals on the street. Whether those are valuable actions is beyond the point of this comment.
FYI that's not a large amount of money to spend on developing an app. The labour it requires is expensive.
who was the doner?
who was the döner?
EDIT: Oh, I see, same joke :D
Well done video but I disagree on a couple of things. The questioning of the cost of an app seems unusual to me. I've worked in places where I had a budget of $80,000 for myself for just apps I may need to do my contract. Involved in that were times where just a design element cost $45,000.00. Just reviewing AV's earlier video explaining their position in detail, they go into this and explain that they were actually having a couple of apps developed. But, at any rate, depending on how sophisticated the app is and what it does, is what determines the cost. Without that knowledge, then people pronouncing judgments on it being too expensive is unfair at this point. But, well done video and some good points and some things I'd disagree with in the mix.
Wow, just when you think they couldn’t get shittier.
I participate in one of those top10 cities and I can tell you we don't encourage challenge22 very much.
I feel uncomfortable that Joey posted that the amount was 1.5M dollars. Was it really his right to reveal that?
Didn't AV reveal that 1.5m in their video before Joey's responded?
@@hhancp I watched the video and they never said exactly how much but implied several thousands and stated that SAVE had 10 times their budget
Opaqueness is not a perk an activist should have.
The more I listen to all the different people and opinions, the less optimistic I become. 😥 Seems like we won’t talk the majority of people into veganism and animal rights. But we also cannot liberate all animals by breaking into locations. Sanctuaries get full, people get into prison, security gets better. I am already getting quite depressed and I am not even long in this movement. 😕
This is why it's important to remember that Vegansim is fundamentally about changing human nature .
We aren't doing that bad as a civilization ; People are much less racist ,sexist ,and speciesest than they were after the war .
You and I have changed , so it's fully possible that others will too. All we can really do is share the message with them . It's a powerful message, so there's reason to be optimistic .
That's why i think it's important to attack the systems and industries and corporations. We still use educational outreach as a tactic, but we also direct it towards something specific to make tangible change.
The Cranky Vegan What would you say how to ensure that, assuming we get a corporation to shut down, they also stay closed? I am thinking of Huntington or just a few weeks ago the LPT in Germany. Heavy pressure campaigns over a long time that made them shut down for some time but then they opened again.
And these shutdowns do not even affect most people in their day-to-day life so the acceptance of the society may be much higher than when we eventually get some big meat producer to shut down.
It seems AV is horribly cost-un-effective.
Also of note, these "statistics" are rarely if ever subject to actual scientific and statistical analysis. A lot of people who don't understand research and statistics throw some numbers out in a vacuum. I guarantee if you took these numbers and analyzed them vs time spent, effort, money, along with animal deaths vs human population size, etc you would find it's even worse and more wasteful than it looks on the surface. It doesn't help that there are those amateur activists also making poorly analyzed claims about who their "research" has shown to be most "effective." It's all so sick.
You made some good points, but the last one was pretty weak. To measure the success of the organization through the 22-challenge is complete nonsense. I know so many people who became vegan through AV and didn't take part in this challenge. I have no doubt that the organization is very successful. Even if it is perhaps too much money measured by success.
Paul and Asal have never had any integrity they have always been in it for their own ego and I'm so glad to see them get their karma
Why is it so hard for “ activists “ these days to break away from outreach and useless vigils ? There’s so much more that could be done .
Funny you say this but dont actually mention what more could be done.
Am I the only person that can’t tell Joey and paul apart they look exactly alike and the accents don’t help
The first and foremost thing I would do is train 100s of teachers on how to effectively talk to crowd of 100 people to help them go vegan. Get petitions from 1000 of educational institutes that teaching about veganism at early age is essential and get veganism involved in a the syllabus, while doing that a community needs to be established to support transition through various mentorship programs and community building activities.
I also didn't join the challenge but I went vegan. And I know from others too, who went vegan without the challenge, not only because they know how to also because just tried to. It doesn't show all the success that was reached. And as I know, the challenge was for free. At least this activism helpes them who likes to be vegan, to be again or to become vegan and let them eat what they want to eat and don't have to be no longer forced or harrassed by non vegans, who always say: "I think everyone should eat whatever they want" but are givin a damn on you if you just sit with'em for eating and don't eat dead animal bodys and also don't like to.
Why did you stoped beeing vegan? Eating not longer than 22 days vegan meals? Taste in your mouth again more value than the animal? So sounds like a lot of money this nearly 1'000'000, what it is, inevitably. Do you think it would be better invested for weapons to hunt animals 'till they die or kill them otherwise and then (?) going home and teaching the childrens how nice and heartfully heartwarming the guineapigs kept as a pet can be, or how heartfully heartwarming it is to let a duckfamily pass the street while you're sitting in the car, like others on the street, waiting 'till they reached the otherside just countable minutes before you serve them dead animalbodys for dinner? Would you also let a single duck or hedgehog pass the street? Or does their life also not matter for you?
Maybe they should hand out a card that says on it a website they can go to to take an online poll that they dont need to sign up to take, that says the definition of veganism then asks are you vegan partially because anonymous for the voiceless helped convince u to go vegan? Yes or no.
Then it could say, if you become vegan later u can come back and change your vote.
Do you have a nonprofit background? What are your nonprofit credentials?
Can't believe, AfV is still around. Thank you for talking about that issue !
I thought this was very concise and thoughtful. You're absolutely right about the animal rights movement no longer standing for animal liberation, but rather for a plant-based diet. And sure, that should be part of the activism but it should not be the face of the entire movement. I never really thought about it until now, but it seems as though over the past 20 years or so, we've taken the more socially accepted path.
just B V gan ❣️
Ombudsman's commentary is important, but difficult to do because of fairness and because is hard to talk about our own "side", but I'm glad you're doing it, at least in this case. You also is one of the only vegan channels that actually talks about animal liberation. It really bothers me vegans policiating if stuff under the sauce in the plate of someone in IG is egg or potato. You can't shame people to stick with the diet for the rest of their lifes and animal rights activism show result, contrary to the diet (imo).
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Yes, nice talking about capitalism and revolution. Grain and cereal companies like the idea of people eating plant-based, and I don't think its nice to replace industrial farmed animal foods for industrial farmed plant foods. The soil is being destructed anyway. Big corps need to change, whatever we eat.
One thing for sure ..I wouldn't give joey a penny ,av and joey have majorly embarrassed vegans. ..again I will repeat being vegan is not a saving grace ,
Did you watch the video ware they give a dog a bath in stream and it runs about and the Chinese man puts him on a lead
very sad that nothing works for nonvegans
a virus is the only solution
@@GeneralArmorus let's not slide into ecofascism
@@JonathanMoore1 lol vegan jihad and vegan reich!
@@JonathanMoore1 btw lets use words correctly. ecofascism should only be reserved for actual fascism which is more complex than just genocide.
I think that as you said, AV's investor was probably more interested in people eating grains then people caring about animal abuse. They may not be converting people, but they surely are causing an impression. =[
You should have hundreds of thousands if not millions of views.
Someone tell this donor to donate to AFA #veganbatgirl
YES
fly vegan. type in vegan/meateater neutral grounds by richard daly and watch the video
All vegans should sign your channel.
As you yourself know, the diet is hard to stick, like any other, so vegan activists should turn people animal activists more than boycotters-consumers, so they don't stray away if they don't manage to keep the diet
This campaign against AV stinks. It is nothing else than an effort to push them out. They offered a prof. audit of their accounts. This the donor refused. End of story.
If they are smart, they will hire an independent auditor and post the audit findings _publicly_ on their social media accounts. Let's see what happens.
@@tamcon72 You can easily contact Paul on Instagram and suggest anything you want. Do you suggest the same for Ed, Joey James and all the other big guns?
@@jonjonwp Defensive whataboutery. We're not talking about them; we're talking about AV. Do you disagree with what I said? If so, why? You should welcome such transparency and should have no doubt that, being honest brokers, they would willingly offer this information.
@@tamcon72 They have a yearly report if they are an organisation i presume. They offered to have a professional audit and that was refused. So obviously they have nothing to hide. No other org has a daily output like AV as they have on Instagram , doing workshops and keeping the ball rolling in cubes all over the world. If you expect Asal and Paul to have transparency then as i said you should be advocating for all activists with donations, funding and patron to also do that.
@@jonjonwp I welcome this transparency from all the others, but this situation has not happened with all the others and this video is not discussing all the others.
That the investor declined Paul and Asal's offer of having an audit is immaterial because it suggests nothing further about their honesty and only describes the carelessness of the investor. I am not aware that the investor has corroborated that the offer was made and he/she declined, either. It is at that point, in any case, when Paul and Asal should have announced that they would hire an independent auditor to audit AV anyway and post the results. That they have not done so yet may mean they _are_ hiding something, or are not business savvy, or are still considering it, or that it hasn't occurred to them to do so, or that not doing so gives the appearance of impropriety.
I have no idea which of these possibilities it is, because I find this whole thing stupid and my only wish is that this doesn't affect the progress of vegan advocacy. I realize that this may make other investors/donors wary of contributing to vegan ventures generally.
What else to these high profile AR organizers have in common? White/ Cis/ Men. Hmmmm
Can anyone sue them already?
For what
My opinion probably don't matter to most vegans since I'm no longer able to eat only plants, but my thoughts on where I'd put money as animal activist probably would be in lobbying for end any form or animal cruelty in industries. This would end some practices like sea world stuff and forced breeding and would make impossible to big companies to profit as much, open way to smaller family business. I wouldn't touch the diet thing considering that the dropping rate of any diet is so high and the vegan is risky and caused a lot of damage to people already, and it's not well studied or publicized to be tried in a minimally secure way for those interested.
Veganism is not a diet. You were not a vegan because you obviously do not understand what it means to be one.
@@YeeLeeHaw Oh, so one can be vegan and eat any diet? Of course not. You can say veganism is more than a diet, it's an ideology with an specific diet, but you can't say it's not a diet. The main thing you need to do to be considered a vegan is do the diet, so it's an absurd to say it's not a diet.
@@HDloly Don't put words in my mouth and straw man my comment. You can be a vegan and still eat animal products, it depends on the situation. If you know you do harm it's not vegan, if you can't find any harm in the process, e.g., leftovers, it's vegan with usually a lot of caveats attached to it. It's not a diet, no matter how you twist and turn it, it just happens to be plants that are the lowest form you can eat. Saying you were a vegan and you failed is not saying anything, you could've eaten chips and french fries as your main diet and drank your own urine as far as we know. You need to specify *WHY* you can't follow veganism anymore when you put so much effort in to make it seem bad, not just say that it didn't work for you when the point of veganism is to make an ethical stand and an ethical stance is not something you abandon; ever.
From the way you act here, there is no wonder you feel that you failed (or pretend that you failed), and it's no surprise that you try to bad talk it now.
@@YeeLeeHaw No, I don't need to specify, and if you think I own people this, you're crazy. If you want to know, you can ask.
Don't put words in other's people mouths and then accuse them of doing this. If you think you can eat animal products and be vegan, sorry, you're the vegan exception, so go be angry with the movement, not me, for saying what they say.
And you can't eat vegan if the criteria is "it's vegan if does no harm", there is almost no way to eat or live in civilization doing no harm, being vegetables or not.
You seem to not to be able to notice you're acting like a bitch, no politeness and all arrogance. You should be surprised that I'm even willing to give you an answer, not act like you're the right one. Full of accusations and insinuations. Be better or stop marking me. I'm not in the mood for pricks.
@@HDloly You took a little bit more than you could chew.
_"No, I don't need to specify"_
When making serious claims on a topic with real victims you need to provide information as to why you reach the conclusion that you made, otherwise don't come to a vegan channel and spread around nonsense.
_"Don't put words in other's people mouths and then accuse them of doing this."_
Explaining that someone is wrong is not putting words in their mouth.
_"If you think you can eat animal products and be vegan, sorry, you're the vegan exception..."_
Sorry, but that's how the logic is. Something that is clear that you still do not understand based on your next comments,which I will get to.
_"And you can't eat vegan if the criteria is "it's vegan if does no harm", there is almost no way to eat or live in civilization doing no harm, being vegetables or not."_
It's not absolute no-harm, it's about choosing the least amount of harm. Veganism is not anti-human, it doesn't mean that you should starve just because there is some collateral damage in the food making process.
_"You seem to not to be able to notice you're acting like a B, no politeness and all arrogance"_
The irony lol. It's called correcting misinformation, you need to grow some thicker skin if you're going to criticize veganism on a vegan channel.
_"You should be surprised that I'm even willing to give you an answer, not act like you're the right one."_
I explained why you are wrong, you can't deny this. You never were a vegan since you didn't understand the logic behind it, and I highly doubt that you had no other choice with the diet that you had.