Ngl that jingyuan section felt so validating. Ive been using him ever since 1.0 its been frustrating to see CCs or people in general just trash on him that you'd think hes bottom tier trash so it refreshing seeing someone say a actually unbiased stance that says it as is
Hes not bad, just average. The fact that it needs almost every good support in the game makes people evaluate him lower as they are less likely to have them.
@kazekori9593 okay but all DPS need supports. Hypercarry is literally a team comp just like the others. Even Jade supports Erudition and AoEs. Him having many teammates isn't a bad thing.
@@Ordell1991 That being said, I know that Yanqing is hot garbage in-game but in-lore he's an absolute menace to face. He faced against both Blade and Inbibitor Lunae and put up a decent fight against Jingliu herself (High Cloud Quintet's leader/teacher) I sincerely hope that he gets a redemption arc. Or he just stays as he is
@@Gumballer92 He is not. He lost every fight. Blade, JL, Dan could have 1 tapped him the moment he started the fight but they didn't care and didn't bother. They just wanted him to stop interfering with their business. He didn't win against Sushang when he was possessed and the main character ran away to call for help for a long time. If he truly capable and didn't want to kill sushang he could have just knocked her out. But he couldn't even do that. And he just lost to the MC as well in Kafka story. And the competition with Yunli is the main story is also a losing ship. He couldn't control his sword and couldn't hit the enemies so Yunli just took his sword easily and catched up to the abomination while he was standing still. Wasn't he supposed to also be chasing? And when we get to the beating abomination number, if you only control YQ, he would be losing (he could lose). If you win it is because you are using 3 character to help the "Trial" YQ beating the enemies. While the "Trial" Yunli was solo-ing and basically 1v4. The March training event also had him as final boss and he basically "loss" to March in the sparing (he probably gave her handicap because it was a test). He had never had any victory on screen against other characters. The only thing we heard about him was that he was supposed to be the upcoming sword champion of xiazhou. But he never appeared so. JY despite most people always considered him being the weakest of the generals or the weakest of the surviving High Cloud Quintet, when he never loss a fight when he appeared on screen.
@@KKKuma I agree. The new story content was funny to me because I couldn't take Yanqing seriously. It's probably harsh of me but I couldn't stop thinking about how he got bodied every appearance and is like #1 ruiner of 50/50's.
@@KKKumaBro is hating, HARD. I read your comment and the first word that came to mind was "bias as f*CK* What kind of logic are you even using in here? In the recent quest where they have abomination killing competition between Yanqing and Yunli, there are scenarios where Yanqing either win or lose because of the player. And your excuse was because Yunli in that fight deal more damage than Yanqing? And when in Yanqing won, you complained that he only won because of us player? Are you seriously basing lore from gameplay? If so then Pela could be an emanator of nihility since Acheron can't even do a simple DEF reduction by herself. Speaking gameplay wise, the trial Yanqing is even worse than regular Yanqing, they nerfed him so we have to challenge ourselves with three characters we've built, it's not about the lore. And you do realize that they rigged Yunli entire cri rate cri dmg right? Therefore, your whole argument in this point is invalid.
I know 'mid Yuan' was meant as a slight, but if by 'mid' we mean 'decent/adequate despite not of current meta archtype' (solid A in the S/A/B/C grade scheme), then the name is apt. I've been using him in _every_ endgame contents - MoC, PF and AS - swapping supports to fit different mode and he's been doing fine while not beating the current 'flavour of the month' meta units/teams. Versatile and reliable are the words I describe him.
That's generally the problem with most people nowadays. They see certain characters becoming less relevant and think, "Oh they're bad now", which is far from the truth most of the time. It doesn't matter if a DPS is "mid", what matters is if they're reliable, and so far, the 1.0 DPS that's been constantly subjected to doomposting are STILL reliable. Seele still has DMG comparable to Acheron with the right setup (and is still the queen of 0 cycles), and Jing Yuan is just as strong as Argenti in PF and MoC. The only DPS that truly fell off is Blade unfortunately as HoYo still haven't made a support dedicated for HP scalers, and they likely never will at this point with Feixiao pretty much sealing Blade's fate.
Gacha player brains are wired to only pleasure themselves with the highest potential damage the newest, coolest, bestest characters can bring, as well as the hype their favourite NPC content creators amass, so "mid" is an insult in this space. "You'll be the best or you'll be nothing".
Jingyuan is so good bc he can do single target and aoe content. Not everyone can do that. Lightning lord can all go to one enemy without damage being wasted cuz it’s not real aoe, like argenti. I play him in all game modes and he just slays.
@@randyjr.arsenio5624 argenti's problem is that he wants multiple enemies to charge his ultimate (5 enemies for a 2-turn ultimate with huohuo and tingyun, atk rope), but also wants everyone else to die after the aoe hit so all of the random strikes can land on the boss. MOC bosses are becoming more and more tanky and it usually requires 2-3 uses of 2nd ultimate to kill a phase. And if he kills all of the smaller enemies in the first ultimate then he will have energy issue for the next rotation (need another turn to fill up the missing energy). PF format solves that by constant waves of reinforcement so he is a gigachad there.
I am pretty optimistic about Jing Yuan because of 2 reasons. 1) JY actually has very strong niche: Summon mechanic. From 2.5 leak, hoyo will releases 2pc ornament for summons. That set changes almost nothing, but this is simply a message from hoyo. They are working on summon mechanic related. Since summon is currently the most niche mechanic in the game, the buff could be very strong. (more niches, more rewarding) 2) Another niche: Stack mechanic. If hoyo releases a harmony unit who buff multiplier, (ex. add 50% multiplier each hit) then all of sudden LL's multiplier is as big as Fexiao's ult. Feixiao also has stack mechanic but cannot get benefit from this because Robin already took the place.
Considering how every single summon in the game benefits from Advance Forward, especially Jing Yuan's, if they release a character that advances summons Jing Yuan stonks are about to rise. Probably not gonna be a Tier 0 character since Lightning Lord is still weaker than Acheron's Ult, but maybe up there with the likes of DHIL and Jingliu. Also he'd absolutely annihilate Pure Fiction lol
I think Jing Yuans favorite support will be a 5* Yukong. One that can buff him EXTREMELY for a short amount of time (enough for his ult and summon) so he can absolutely one shot enemies.
@@jacoblee4709 That is actually opposite. Advance summon won't make JY better but in fact even worse. Even right now, it's still hard to maintain 10 stacks every cycle. If we advance LL, we barely get more than 5 or 6 stacks since LL moves too fast that surpass Sparkle speed.
Appreciate you highlighting Yukong's problems, because yeah numbers wise her buffs are competitive with our 5* supports but it's just so hard to use them. Don't get me wrong, I've seen her used to impressive effect in Acheron and Jing Yuan 0 cycles (Acheron pairs perfectly with Yukong if you can get around the 2 Nihility teammates restriction), but it's pretty difficult to use her in practice. Even if you use a Basic focused rotation with her E6 to alleviate her SP issue, you lose full uptime on her 88% ATK buff, which only loses in strength to Robin's huge ATK buff so you want it up as often as possible. In other news, it's pretty funny that she has 100% Toughness Reduction on her A2 talent before Break meta even became a thing. Toughness Reduction multiplies with Weakness Break Efficiency, too, making each powered up Basic do a ST Ult's worth of Toughness damage with Ruan Mei. Not to mention her being the only Harmony with a ST damaging Ult. In short, Super Break Yukong when??
I think it’s great if you can keep playing with the older (maybe less optimal) characters if you invest in the team around them. Or find new ways to use their kit. It gives healthy longevity to the characters and the whole game. Older pulls aren’t throw aways in few patches. I’ve basically been testing your theory in practice. Jing Yuan - the long game :) Day 1 player, saved for Jing Yuan. He was my first limited 5star. Even got his LC. Have pulled and built other characters just for him. Like Tingyun in the early days, HuoHuo, Sparkle… Jing Yuan isn’t perfect but I like him a lot so he’s still my main lightning dmg dealer.
Yeah, I have an E1 Jing Yuan, been using that mf without any problems to clear MOC/PF. Im waiting for a new 5 star erudition lc that will buff him even more. If not, I'll just get his sig
The golden rule of pretty much any gacha game is: Supports reign supreme. Like no matter what game you play, supports will always make the biggest impacts, even if it's not when they release. This isn't just a HSR thing, though it certainly applies.
Yukong feels made for Yunli. Almost all of Yunli's damage comes from her enhanced counter, and she can store two of them at a time to get giga buffed by a single Yukong ultimate.
Yukong is best for teams that weave attacks in between turns and don't rely on SP economy, hence why she's good with counterattackers and follow-up attackers.
@@DarkSeraph I reckon you want her to go before your dps, either right before or with 1 other unit in between. That's how I run her with DHIL anyway. Her biggest issue is that because of how her stacks work, she needs to be spd tuned according to the dps she's running with, she's not slap a spd and be done with it, like RM or Robin. While mine is stuck to only one team, I love playing her in that team. (Did an SD run once where she and Aventurine were the only ones left standing. Thanks to an SP generating blessing they could just constantly spam their skills and dealt dmg only with their ults. Yukong ulting with her own ult buff on is ridiculously good🤣)
His damaged is not bad he’s my favourite in the game and have been playing him since day one has his best team as well it just his damage is not so consistent wis his 10 stacks could go instantly 😢❤
It's a good thing that HTB is completely free then. Tho, I feel the main reason why they gutted her personal damage without buffs is because of how busted HTB is. They were likely unable to nerf HTB since they were already released before Firefly. Imagine if Firefly had 100% super break with HTB's 120% super break. That would be terrifying lol.
@@koko-hh2bqthe duo will break the game I mean they are breaking the even when the moc doesn't buff them it just like acheron she was so broken they had to nerf a new character because then with him she will break the game
I fully agree with this. I don't have any other fire dps, other than Himeko. She works so well now, because of the weird superbreak build and the new artifacts, lightcones and relic that just came. Firefly is definitely better, but all things that benefit Firefly indirectly buffs Himeko hahahaha. All content with fire weakness has been solved (full stars) by my Himeko c0 with the proper teams and builds.
To me the main issue is the fact the base kit of Jing Yuan is just clunky. They should've made it that at 10 charges the LL acts immediately even if it meant slightly lower multipliers. The fact you need to wait for the LL to move on the speed priority can lead to whacky things. (Such as the infamous image of PF of finishing and LL 1 space below) If they add something like lv 90 and a new trace, that should skyrocket him. Being weak to CC is also a thing tho not as a critical since most of sustains can cleans it asap. And we can see this on summoners that came afterwards. Numby being able to act while Topaz is CC, also getting accelerated by her summoner and peers, good damage multiplier and hit. Upcoming healer with summoner who acts independent, skill accelerates 20% and a 100% on ulti, they noticed the flaws on kit design
seele i feel is another good example of this, for a 1.0 unit without much utility, she still manages to stay relevant and a decent pick due to mono quantum, despite her age and hypercarry going out of fashion her teammates keep her strong because of the sheer versatility of mono-quantum
@@hentikirby7142 yes it can work (although I doubt that, there's a reason why natasha is atrocious) but it won't work the best and it won't make character or just whole team fill good. and being the best teammate is what it is about. it's not hard to understand. aventurine has a crazy synergy with ratio team. he's very sp positive, can trigger numby's AF, gives 2 debuffs, takes advantage of robin's buff and can often proc robin's dmg. natasha can't do any of it.
My idea to further buff Jing Yuan is if they release support that advance forward the last allies on the stack (including summon) it can be an effective way to speed up LL without being so niche that it can’t be used on another carry.
The take on Acheron is interesting because as of current testing, her best team, even at e0, is with 1 Nihility (JQ) and Robin, because Robin's buffs and team action adv are so strong they make up for losing the larger portion of her trace's multiplier buff.
Summons are getting support in the later versions. Source: trust me bro. But nah imagine sunday is harmony and buffs summons in every way shape and form. Jing yuan indirectly buffed again, baby!!
Hot take: Nihility was weak because Harmony was weak. The problem about Nihility character was that they were meant to be sub DPS/debuffer. That is why Nihility debuff is weaker than Harmony buff because they themselves do some damage. We couldn't afford to use them as subdps since subdps and debuffer both couldn't coexist. Then Robin came and changed everything. She rewards subdps role by giving them massive atk buff, action advance, additional damage. Moreover, her buff is simply massive to the point you better put nihility character to maximize overall damage. People start saying "oh Robin is so broken!!" and I sincerely agree. However, in my opinion, the problem was those old harmony units that they couldn't provide enough buff to the breakeven point that no longer needs to put another harmony units.
It could be right but i think the problem are they cook too hard for harmony (looking on how broken robin are), let's just say that they make nihility do sub dps damage but deal sama insane amount debuff as harmony buff, it would be too broken you see
I think at the moment both Robin and Ruan mei are definitely a cut above the rest of the units for Duo DPS. But for hyper carry she’s about a strong as all of the other 5 star and tingyun.
@@ForTheViolence Famous tCs and hundreds of showcases already proved even in hypercarry comp Robin is better. Ruan is not a cut above. She is only best at break and on par with Sparkle 100%.
Imo. It is purposely design by Hoyoverse. Harmony should able to synergies with other path. Hince the name, Harmony. Meanwhile Nihility is not the same. Again. Look at their name, Nihility. Understand?
As someone that has an insane jy build wise, sure he did get better, but his main problem was never fixed, and that is that nowadays you overstack LL (with sparkle or robin advance) but you cant advance LL so it doesn't matter cause his damage is still backloaded so he still feels like shit compared to other carry units
i absolutely love these theorem videos of yours. they really bring a much broader perspective to HSR outside of end-all, be-all builds and playstyles. could i ask if these videos take some inspiration from False Swipe Gaming's Pokémon videos?
Right now one of his competitive team is super break with HMC team. But HMC team is very competitive in itself. However he has never been in the FUA team line up because his FUA is slow. Most commonly you run him with 2 support 1 sustain or 3 support and go 0 cycle or 1-2 cycle depend on your relic. He has quite consistent clear because LL speed is fixed
I enjoy your ideas in this video, but I personally struggle with listening to your voice while also reading what's on the screen. I often find myself pausing to read and THEN listening to you. You're making the same point, and appreciate you wording things in 2 ways to make sure we understand, but processing them simultaneously is a bit hard sometimes. Loving your channel so far though!
I feel like jing yuan will get hella buffed in 2.6/3.0 with the future summon archetype support(there already is banamusement park where 48 crit dmg is stupid) and probably a summon harmony who speeds up summons so something. I do think devs have limited future units/teams since there is only so many unique gimmicks, like sp, shield, hp, break, crit, fua, ult, now summons, like what else can hoyo have without competing with previous units. Also maybe oroborus as an aeon for summons in su/du/gg
And yo like we all seen the thing with Hoyo sneak peaking future metas w units they release. And like how she should pay special attention to units that has “overlapping features” - like back with Kafka for dot (before blackswan, huohuo and ruanmei/robin to make the Dot got released to make dot team more powerful, more premium). But then she also has a every turn follow up that makes her go well with Robin Aven Swan teams i use these days. And the debuff lowkey synergies her with Dr Ratio (if you ever use them together for certain contents) - Ruanmei: she’s just such good support that i rolled for her, not knowing the hyperbreak meta’s coming with HMC, Gallagher, and ultimately Boothill and Firefly). And i’ve cleared the second half of the most recent Apocalyptic with a very F2P team: Himeko, Ruan mei, HMC, Gallagher. Her best team is undoubtedly Hyper break team but she’s also so good with Dot team, caused of her delayed break recovery thing. - Topaz: i dont remember if she’s released before Ruan mei or not but, back then she’s just not that good. But things changed when more frequen, fua units got released like Dr Ratio, Aventurine, Robin, and heck even follow-up units from the past benefitted from her. And now with even more Fua units coming; or like Feixiao with most of her dmg comes from follow-up and uul counted as follow-up. She keeps getting better and better. - My prediction, also inspired by this video: Lingsha is coming as a premium break team sustain. She has gallagher’s break scale, can do much toughness dmg, but also has very frequent attack that synergies well with Robin (more dmg procs, more energy recovered); but then she has a summon bunny. Makes me wonder if there’ll be a Summon meta coming, with the release of a harmony that can advance or boost summons speed and damage somehow. That way we can have a Jingyuan Topaz Lingsha SummonHarmony team as opposed to the variant with Robin i think of right now. Like topaz prefer units that has frequen follow up to push up Numby. And that lowkey has anti-synergy with Jingyuan (cause the Lord speed is fixed). But if there’s a Harmony as such, that somehow has Robin capability in buffing follow-up attack, but in a more niche Summons’ follow up attacks, then it’d be cool to see. And so far i truly believe that Harmony units is what shifting the game metas. Like i know with every other game the supports/sustain is much harder to powercreep and has more longevity over dps. But with Star Rail i see it as such more over-lapping, but universally good but then also has their best niche supports are what shaping the meta. Only the best sidegrades. So yea Ult meta next (acheron, feixiao has high ult dmg, and there’s jiaoqiu who’ll buff ult dmg specifically while having universal enemies’ dmg received) or Summon meta next? With the comeback of Jingyuan, Topaz being the queen she is, Lingsha, and a Summon Support So excited 🤩
If he releases now, he would have double scaling, double stack no CC weakness, over cap stack, stack carry over after waves, instant movement at full stack that is not counting a separate turn so he could get YK and Bronya buff. And all of those solution will be in the eidolon He is 1.0 so he is clearly old and usually in the first years, dev don't really know how to balance characters. And they have yet to put the solution of a character into the eidolon/duplicate. It is not very wise to push for it when the game is new, but rather pushing it slowly. For Seele or JY case, they are the first waves of units so their issue are not solved with eidolon. Comparing to other new character eidolon, even if you pull e6 they are not even that big of increase of those brand new chars at e1 or e2. I don't think he will ever get better to be meta even with new support coming out. The only good thing for JY is that he is infact very consistent in all game mode. LL is moving at a fixed speed and 1 a cycle so you can always expect him to finish everything in from somewhere like 0-2 cycle for the current and forseeable content with a decent build assuming each boss HP bar take 1 LL or less. When I bring him for a boss with 3 HP bar, I know that it will take 2 or less cycle and very comfy to arrange his team and put better support in the other team instead
You don't really get Yukong. She's all about lining up ultimates - that's the best way to make use of her. I have used a quite good team of Yukong Ratio Welt Aventurine, which could comfortably 3 to 4 cycle MOC 12
While he's by no means terrible, the best way to buff him would be something that MASSIVELY buffs a single attack that isn't just spammable. Even then, Lighting Lord can still be unreliable and that buffed attack may just get wasted on an enemy that is almost dead already.
Teammates are important, but I don't think Hoyo will ever release a chracter that make Hook, Arlan or Yanquing as at least Dr Ration (the one you could get for free) or free Hunt March. Like Yunli also straight powercrept Clara and regardles of team Yunli will always be better
Great vid, but if I may offer a feedback, don't do any flashing/flickering lights on the chapter title cards. It's really disorienting even for someone without epileptic tendencies. I know it's for the TV effect, but you can do other CRT TV-like effects like screen tearing and artifacting instead of making the whole screen periodically flash
Love jing yuan and argenti My life is pain sometimes but my e2 firefly fixes all my problems It doesn't matter if I clear in 8 cycles with jing my firefly 0 cycles so I can cope XD
If we had teamwide hp buffer support like ruan mei, robin. How much it will buff blade and fu xuan? Can you do a video about it? I see some hp scaling in fu xuan kit, she can do respectable damage I guess
every time a new Harmony character drops, they always "coincidentally" increase his damage by 20% compared to the previous one. i guess theyre just blueballing and cashmaxxing lol
unlike other characters they dont get restricted too much without the meta supports and can still do respectable damage. having jing yuan while not having any of the meta supports just means ur bricked ur jing yuan
you're kind of missing the point of the video? it's that Jing Yuan scales better with meta supports? and don't say "what if you have no meta supports" because your account is bricked either way
@@fuecocomaster5463 he scales better means he does considerably worse without them. i dont have ruan mei, sparle, fu xuan, or luocha. it takes me some effort to full star MoC, PF, and AS, but i can still get full stars. my JY however is completely unusable
To be fair, not having any of the new harmony supports either you are a new player, or you made the wrong decisions in your account, skipping any of them is downright killing your account in the long term
Skill issue at it's finest, did it in 3 with galagher sustain, Sparkle and tingyun, everyone was E0S0, taking 9 cycles is entirely your skill issue in using him
His damage multiplier is NOT that impressive, cuz Lighting Lord takes forever to attack. He's also bad for hypercarry cuz Lighting Lord is unpredictable and unreliable for buffing. Also, hypercarry is the strongest it's ever been since Firefly hypercarry is the strongest team EVER, it's not even close. Hypercarries in the past, while good and even the "best" team in some cases, were vastly overrated.
Ngl that jingyuan section felt so validating. Ive been using him ever since 1.0 its been frustrating to see CCs or people in general just trash on him that you'd think hes bottom tier trash so it refreshing seeing someone say a actually unbiased stance that says it as is
i just wish sunday actually advances summons man..... he really needs it
Hes not bad, just average. The fact that it needs almost every good support in the game makes people evaluate him lower as they are less likely to have them.
@kazekori9593 okay but all DPS need supports. Hypercarry is literally a team comp just like the others. Even Jade supports Erudition and AoEs. Him having many teammates isn't a bad thing.
@@vylet8270 his value is lower than others due to the fact he needs good supports to be equal to other characters that use less optimal supports
@_uh._.no_ again, not a real issue bc we have many harmony and Nihility characters.
The jjk brain rot is so bad I saw the thumbnail and audibly said potential man
lightning lord is just mahoraga but for King Yuan
@@bacongod5759q
@@bacongod5759😊😊q
aint no way, i thought it was "potential man" and not "mr. potential."
Jing Yuan and Yanqing, Mr. Potential and Potential Man. Like father like son.
Add Jingliu.
If only Jingliu helps Jingyuan to teach Yanqing from the start of trainings, higher probability Yanqing will be like Jingliu.
@@Ordell1991 That being said, I know that Yanqing is hot garbage in-game but in-lore he's an absolute menace to face.
He faced against both Blade and Inbibitor Lunae and put up a decent fight against Jingliu herself (High Cloud Quintet's leader/teacher)
I sincerely hope that he gets a redemption arc. Or he just stays as he is
@@Gumballer92 He is not. He lost every fight.
Blade, JL, Dan could have 1 tapped him the moment he started the fight but they didn't care and didn't bother. They just wanted him to stop interfering with their business. He didn't win against Sushang when he was possessed and the main character ran away to call for help for a long time. If he truly capable and didn't want to kill sushang he could have just knocked her out. But he couldn't even do that.
And he just lost to the MC as well in Kafka story.
And the competition with Yunli is the main story is also a losing ship. He couldn't control his sword and couldn't hit the enemies so Yunli just took his sword easily and catched up to the abomination while he was standing still. Wasn't he supposed to also be chasing? And when we get to the beating abomination number, if you only control YQ, he would be losing (he could lose). If you win it is because you are using 3 character to help the "Trial" YQ beating the enemies. While the "Trial" Yunli was solo-ing and basically 1v4.
The March training event also had him as final boss and he basically "loss" to March in the sparing (he probably gave her handicap because it was a test).
He had never had any victory on screen against other characters. The only thing we heard about him was that he was supposed to be the upcoming sword champion of xiazhou. But he never appeared so.
JY despite most people always considered him being the weakest of the generals or the weakest of the surviving High Cloud Quintet, when he never loss a fight when he appeared on screen.
@@KKKuma I agree. The new story content was funny to me because I couldn't take Yanqing seriously. It's probably harsh of me but I couldn't stop thinking about how he got bodied every appearance and is like #1 ruiner of 50/50's.
@@KKKumaBro is hating, HARD.
I read your comment and the first word that came to mind was "bias as f*CK*
What kind of logic are you even using in here? In the recent quest where they have abomination killing competition between Yanqing and Yunli, there are scenarios where Yanqing either win or lose because of the player.
And your excuse was because Yunli in that fight deal more damage than Yanqing?
And when in Yanqing won, you complained that he only won because of us player?
Are you seriously basing lore from gameplay?
If so then Pela could be an emanator of nihility since Acheron can't even do a simple DEF reduction by herself.
Speaking gameplay wise, the trial Yanqing is even worse than regular Yanqing, they nerfed him so we have to challenge ourselves with three characters we've built, it's not about the lore.
And you do realize that they rigged Yunli entire cri rate cri dmg right?
Therefore, your whole argument in this point is invalid.
I know 'mid Yuan' was meant as a slight, but if by 'mid' we mean 'decent/adequate despite not of current meta archtype' (solid A in the S/A/B/C grade scheme), then the name is apt. I've been using him in _every_ endgame contents - MoC, PF and AS - swapping supports to fit different mode and he's been doing fine while not beating the current 'flavour of the month' meta units/teams. Versatile and reliable are the words I describe him.
That's generally the problem with most people nowadays. They see certain characters becoming less relevant and think, "Oh they're bad now", which is far from the truth most of the time. It doesn't matter if a DPS is "mid", what matters is if they're reliable, and so far, the 1.0 DPS that's been constantly subjected to doomposting are STILL reliable. Seele still has DMG comparable to Acheron with the right setup (and is still the queen of 0 cycles), and Jing Yuan is just as strong as Argenti in PF and MoC. The only DPS that truly fell off is Blade unfortunately as HoYo still haven't made a support dedicated for HP scalers, and they likely never will at this point with Feixiao pretty much sealing Blade's fate.
@@hershyijustshatmyself9253 blade my beloved 😭😭
Gacha player brains are wired to only pleasure themselves with the highest potential damage the newest, coolest, bestest characters can bring, as well as the hype their favourite NPC content creators amass, so "mid" is an insult in this space.
"You'll be the best or you'll be nothing".
Jingyuan is so good bc he can do single target and aoe content. Not everyone can do that. Lightning lord can all go to one enemy without damage being wasted cuz it’s not real aoe, like argenti. I play him in all game modes and he just slays.
Hm? Have you seen how Argenti can land all 6 additional hits of his Ult on one target? That's anti ST ability right there.
@@randyjr.arsenio5624 argenti's problem is that he wants multiple enemies to charge his ultimate (5 enemies for a 2-turn ultimate with huohuo and tingyun, atk rope), but also wants everyone else to die after the aoe hit so all of the random strikes can land on the boss. MOC bosses are becoming more and more tanky and it usually requires 2-3 uses of 2nd ultimate to kill a phase. And if he kills all of the smaller enemies in the first ultimate then he will have energy issue for the next rotation (need another turn to fill up the missing energy). PF format solves that by constant waves of reinforcement so he is a gigachad there.
So unlike jing yuan, argenti still needs to be in multi target environment to works, despite having method of dealing single target damage
Wdym it's not real AOE
@@jmcMateo LL dmg is blast dmg. The hits are all going to a random enemy but they do blast dmg.
Feeling this right now cause feixiao falls off massively damage wise without robin and i skipped robins banner
same 💔
I know 😭😭😭 but I will get her in her rerun
My two favorite star rail tubers. Lets go!
Still pulling but damn it sucks to have characters bundled with a specific support in mind
Is this another Firefly/RM situation? If so then skipping for someone else who isn't single target
I am pretty optimistic about Jing Yuan because of 2 reasons.
1) JY actually has very strong niche: Summon mechanic. From 2.5 leak, hoyo will releases 2pc ornament for summons. That set changes almost nothing, but this is simply a message from hoyo. They are working on summon mechanic related. Since summon is currently the most niche mechanic in the game, the buff could be very strong. (more niches, more rewarding)
2) Another niche: Stack mechanic. If hoyo releases a harmony unit who buff multiplier, (ex. add 50% multiplier each hit) then all of sudden LL's multiplier is as big as Fexiao's ult. Feixiao also has stack mechanic but cannot get benefit from this because Robin already took the place.
I’m I’m gonna have my dad
Considering how every single summon in the game benefits from Advance Forward, especially Jing Yuan's, if they release a character that advances summons Jing Yuan stonks are about to rise. Probably not gonna be a Tier 0 character since Lightning Lord is still weaker than Acheron's Ult, but maybe up there with the likes of DHIL and Jingliu. Also he'd absolutely annihilate Pure Fiction lol
I think Jing Yuans favorite support will be a 5* Yukong. One that can buff him EXTREMELY for a short amount of time (enough for his ult and summon) so he can absolutely one shot enemies.
Argenti and Acheron (assuming you can fit them) would love that too, so I can actually see that character kit being added ngl
@@jacoblee4709 That is actually opposite. Advance summon won't make JY better but in fact even worse. Even right now, it's still hard to maintain 10 stacks every cycle. If we advance LL, we barely get more than 5 or 6 stacks since LL moves too fast that surpass Sparkle speed.
potential man? Sunshower heathcliff is that you?
of course the sleeper agents are here too
@@monochrome4937 At this point we're not even sleeper agents. The agents are fully awake.
Oh god not here too
into the coffin you go
Appreciate you highlighting Yukong's problems, because yeah numbers wise her buffs are competitive with our 5* supports but it's just so hard to use them. Don't get me wrong, I've seen her used to impressive effect in Acheron and Jing Yuan 0 cycles (Acheron pairs perfectly with Yukong if you can get around the 2 Nihility teammates restriction), but it's pretty difficult to use her in practice. Even if you use a Basic focused rotation with her E6 to alleviate her SP issue, you lose full uptime on her 88% ATK buff, which only loses in strength to Robin's huge ATK buff so you want it up as often as possible.
In other news, it's pretty funny that she has 100% Toughness Reduction on her A2 talent before Break meta even became a thing. Toughness Reduction multiplies with Weakness Break Efficiency, too, making each powered up Basic do a ST Ult's worth of Toughness damage with Ruan Mei. Not to mention her being the only Harmony with a ST damaging Ult. In short, Super Break Yukong when??
Edit: ! just tried it with HMC, March 7th, and Ruan Mei and 3 cycled MoC 11 Kafka. The best part is that you don't need any of her eidolons LOL
I think it’s great if you can keep playing with the older (maybe less optimal) characters if you invest in the team around them. Or find new ways to use their kit. It gives healthy longevity to the characters and the whole game. Older pulls aren’t throw aways in few patches.
I’ve basically been testing your theory in practice. Jing Yuan - the long game :) Day 1 player, saved for Jing Yuan. He was my first limited 5star. Even got his LC. Have pulled and built other characters just for him. Like Tingyun in the early days, HuoHuo, Sparkle…
Jing Yuan isn’t perfect but I like him a lot so he’s still my main lightning dmg dealer.
Yeah, I have an E1 Jing Yuan, been using that mf without any problems to clear MOC/PF. Im waiting for a new 5 star erudition lc that will buff him even more. If not, I'll just get his sig
man i wish i got e1 jing yuan but i wanted e2 sparkle but wiff last the 50/50, stuck with e1 sparkle. best character investment (day one jing main)
I saw someone use Jade's lightcone on him and he did almost a million dmg in MoC lmao
Isnt the Jade lc better than sig?
@@MrcreeperDXD777 I think it's his current BiS at the moment
If you can manage a basic atk and reach 200% or above cdmg, it is definitely his bis.@@MrcreeperDXD777
The golden rule of pretty much any gacha game is: Supports reign supreme.
Like no matter what game you play, supports will always make the biggest impacts, even if it's not when they release. This isn't just a HSR thing, though it certainly applies.
Y’all should try Yukong in pure fiction with Clara or Yunli. It’s pure bliss. Big numbers everywhere.
Yukong feels made for Yunli. Almost all of Yunli's damage comes from her enhanced counter, and she can store two of them at a time to get giga buffed by a single Yukong ultimate.
Yukong is best for teams that weave attacks in between turns and don't rely on SP economy, hence why she's good with counterattackers and follow-up attackers.
Thanks for giving me an idea
I suck at speed tuning how much does she need?
@@DarkSeraph I reckon you want her to go before your dps, either right before or with 1 other unit in between. That's how I run her with DHIL anyway. Her biggest issue is that because of how her stacks work, she needs to be spd tuned according to the dps she's running with, she's not slap a spd and be done with it, like RM or Robin.
While mine is stuck to only one team, I love playing her in that team.
(Did an SD run once where she and Aventurine were the only ones left standing. Thanks to an SP generating blessing they could just constantly spam their skills and dealt dmg only with their ults. Yukong ulting with her own ult buff on is ridiculously good🤣)
Jing Yuan took an arrow to a knee so Argenti could take an arrow to the other knee
His damaged is not bad he’s my favourite in the game and have been playing him since day one has his best team as well it just his damage is not so consistent wis his 10 stacks could go instantly 😢❤
Firefly if more hindered by teammates rather than boothill, she doesnt even function well enough without HMC
It's a good thing that HTB is completely free then.
Tho, I feel the main reason why they gutted her personal damage without buffs is because of how busted HTB is. They were likely unable to nerf HTB since they were already released before Firefly.
Imagine if Firefly had 100% super break with HTB's 120% super break. That would be terrifying lol.
@@koko-hh2bqthe duo will break the game I mean they are breaking the even when the moc doesn't buff them it just like acheron she was so broken they had to nerf a new character because then with him she will break the game
pull meta / broken character ❌
pull character you like ✅
when you being old, you will know playing game to release stress not make you stressful
“Kings and queens and everyone in between”
Yup, subscribed to the right creator right here (and i’ll take the phrase w me :)))
Intersex people
best video i have watched for honkai star rail so far. you deserve way more views man, keep up the hard work.
I fully agree with this. I don't have any other fire dps, other than Himeko. She works so well now, because of the weird superbreak build and the new artifacts, lightcones and relic that just came. Firefly is definitely better, but all things that benefit Firefly indirectly buffs Himeko hahahaha. All content with fire weakness has been solved (full stars) by my Himeko c0 with the proper teams and builds.
To me the main issue is the fact the base kit of Jing Yuan is just clunky. They should've made it that at 10 charges the LL acts immediately even if it meant slightly lower multipliers. The fact you need to wait for the LL to move on the speed priority can lead to whacky things. (Such as the infamous image of PF of finishing and LL 1 space below)
If they add something like lv 90 and a new trace, that should skyrocket him. Being weak to CC is also a thing tho not as a critical since most of sustains can cleans it asap.
And we can see this on summoners that came afterwards. Numby being able to act while Topaz is CC, also getting accelerated by her summoner and peers, good damage multiplier and hit. Upcoming healer with summoner who acts independent, skill accelerates 20% and a 100% on ulti, they noticed the flaws on kit design
seele i feel is another good example of this, for a 1.0 unit without much utility, she still manages to stay relevant and a decent pick due to mono quantum, despite her age and hypercarry going out of fashion her teammates keep her strong because of the sheer versatility of mono-quantum
Until another quantum dps comes
4 star xueyi > 5 star seele
@@dachosens1only apocalyptic shadow
Mono quantum is really bad for Seele though.
@@sa-jy4ve how 💀
The potential man of HSR
i wish his stacks sould overcap like everyone elses :(
No not another Sun-Cliff situation
By mentioning a project limbus character i now activate the project moon sleeper agents.
You mean why harmony is everything.
look at aventurine and topaz in ratio/fua teams, at gallagher/lingsha in break teams. it's not only about harmony.
@@leleli6973 it is lol. if u take any of those sust and replace them with natasha or march or gep it'd still work.
@@hentikirby7142 do you understand that aventurine is the best because he can move numby the best?
@@МаркВедров do you understand that harmony gives u the most dam?
@@hentikirby7142 yes it can work (although I doubt that, there's a reason why natasha is atrocious) but it won't work the best and it won't make character or just whole team fill good. and being the best teammate is what it is about. it's not hard to understand. aventurine has a crazy synergy with ratio team. he's very sp positive, can trigger numby's AF, gives 2 debuffs, takes advantage of robin's buff and can often proc robin's dmg. natasha can't do any of it.
My idea to further buff Jing Yuan is if they release support that advance forward the last allies on the stack (including summon) it can be an effective way to speed up LL without being so niche that it can’t be used on another carry.
The take on Acheron is interesting because as of current testing, her best team, even at e0, is with 1 Nihility (JQ) and Robin, because Robin's buffs and team action adv are so strong they make up for losing the larger portion of her trace's multiplier buff.
Once we get a support that buffs summons, Jing Yuan will get buffed even more
All units can be good. They just have to be in the right team and right armor and use in the right situation.
Summons are getting support in the later versions. Source: trust me bro. But nah imagine sunday is harmony and buffs summons in every way shape and form. Jing yuan indirectly buffed again, baby!!
I love witnessing the rise of My Man as new characters release.
Hot take: Nihility was weak because Harmony was weak.
The problem about Nihility character was that they were meant to be sub DPS/debuffer. That is why Nihility debuff is weaker than Harmony buff because they themselves do some damage.
We couldn't afford to use them as subdps since subdps and debuffer both couldn't coexist.
Then Robin came and changed everything. She rewards subdps role by giving them massive atk buff, action advance, additional damage. Moreover, her buff is simply massive to the point you better put nihility character to maximize overall damage.
People start saying "oh Robin is so broken!!" and I sincerely agree. However, in my opinion, the problem was those old harmony units that they couldn't provide enough buff to the breakeven point that no longer needs to put another harmony units.
It could be right but i think the problem are they cook too hard for harmony (looking on how broken robin are), let's just say that they make nihility do sub dps damage but deal sama insane amount debuff as harmony buff, it would be too broken you see
@@yohaneskevin1541 That's what I said. Nihility debuff is supposed to be weaker than Harmony buff since nihility themselves do some damage.
I think at the moment both Robin and Ruan mei are definitely a cut above the rest of the units for Duo DPS. But for hyper carry she’s about a strong as all of the other 5 star and tingyun.
@@ForTheViolence Famous tCs and hundreds of showcases already proved even in hypercarry comp Robin is better. Ruan is not a cut above. She is only best at break and on par with Sparkle 100%.
Imo. It is purposely design by Hoyoverse. Harmony should able to synergies with other path. Hince the name, Harmony. Meanwhile Nihility is not the same. Again. Look at their name, Nihility. Understand?
As someone that has an insane jy build wise, sure he did get better, but his main problem was never fixed, and that is that nowadays you overstack LL (with sparkle or robin advance) but you cant advance LL so it doesn't matter cause his damage is still backloaded so he still feels like shit compared to other carry units
i absolutely love these theorem videos of yours. they really bring a much broader perspective to HSR outside of end-all, be-all builds and playstyles. could i ask if these videos take some inspiration from False Swipe Gaming's Pokémon videos?
KingYuan was a hyper carry dps before but now he's a hyper carried flex unit by follow up team mates 😅
Right now one of his competitive team is super break with HMC team. But HMC team is very competitive in itself.
However he has never been in the FUA team line up because his FUA is slow. Most commonly you run him with 2 support 1 sustain or 3 support and go 0 cycle or 1-2 cycle depend on your relic. He has quite consistent clear because LL speed is fixed
I believe in the future all eng hsr youtubers will use your theorems in conversations)
you cool, I will watch you from now on, the most sane honkai star rail player. Nice vid
one day they might introduce a summon meta where topaz, jing yuan, lingsha, will receive new playstyles
I enjoy your ideas in this video, but I personally struggle with listening to your voice while also reading what's on the screen. I often find myself pausing to read and THEN listening to you. You're making the same point, and appreciate you wording things in 2 ways to make sure we understand, but processing them simultaneously is a bit hard sometimes.
Loving your channel so far though!
I feel like jing yuan will get hella buffed in 2.6/3.0 with the future summon archetype support(there already is banamusement park where 48 crit dmg is stupid) and probably a summon harmony who speeds up summons so something. I do think devs have limited future units/teams since there is only so many unique gimmicks, like sp, shield, hp, break, crit, fua, ult, now summons, like what else can hoyo have without competing with previous units. Also maybe oroborus as an aeon for summons in su/du/gg
And yo like we all seen the thing with Hoyo sneak peaking future metas w units they release. And like how she should pay special attention to units that has “overlapping features”
- like back with Kafka for dot (before blackswan, huohuo and ruanmei/robin to make the Dot got released to make dot team more powerful, more premium). But then she also has a every turn follow up that makes her go well with Robin Aven Swan teams i use these days. And the debuff lowkey synergies her with Dr Ratio (if you ever use them together for certain contents)
- Ruanmei: she’s just such good support that i rolled for her, not knowing the hyperbreak meta’s coming with HMC, Gallagher, and ultimately Boothill and Firefly). And i’ve cleared the second half of the most recent Apocalyptic with a very F2P team: Himeko, Ruan mei, HMC, Gallagher. Her best team is undoubtedly Hyper break team but she’s also so good with Dot team, caused of her delayed break recovery thing.
- Topaz: i dont remember if she’s released before Ruan mei or not but, back then she’s just not that good. But things changed when more frequen, fua units got released like Dr Ratio, Aventurine, Robin, and heck even follow-up units from the past benefitted from her. And now with even more Fua units coming; or like Feixiao with most of her dmg comes from follow-up and uul counted as follow-up.
She keeps getting better and better.
- My prediction, also inspired by this video: Lingsha is coming as a premium break team sustain. She has gallagher’s break scale, can do much toughness dmg, but also has very frequent attack that synergies well with Robin (more dmg procs, more energy recovered); but then she has a summon bunny.
Makes me wonder if there’ll be a Summon meta coming, with the release of a harmony that can advance or boost summons speed and damage somehow.
That way we can have a Jingyuan Topaz Lingsha SummonHarmony team
as opposed to the variant with Robin i think of right now.
Like topaz prefer units that has frequen follow up to push up Numby. And that lowkey has anti-synergy with Jingyuan (cause the Lord speed is fixed). But if there’s a Harmony as such, that somehow has Robin capability in buffing follow-up attack, but in a more niche Summons’ follow up attacks, then it’d be cool to see.
And so far i truly believe that Harmony units is what shifting the game metas. Like i know with every other game the supports/sustain is much harder to powercreep and has more longevity over dps. But with Star Rail i see it as such more over-lapping, but universally good but then also has their best niche supports are what shaping the meta.
Only the best sidegrades.
So yea
Ult meta next (acheron, feixiao has high ult dmg, and there’s jiaoqiu who’ll buff ult dmg specifically while having universal enemies’ dmg received)
or
Summon meta next? With the comeback of Jingyuan, Topaz being the queen she is, Lingsha, and a Summon Support
So excited 🤩
This is a good video. Very good examples and explanation!
Love me some false swipe gaming reference in the video title
I can only dream what jingyuan would have been like if he was released today and not the first patch.
This was such a good listen
700iq kingyuan having a dysfunctional kit that just about every support and relics buff him
The title reminds me of the quagsire theorem, a video about how high stats arent everything in competitive pokemon.
If he releases now, he would have double scaling, double stack no CC weakness, over cap stack, stack carry over after waves, instant movement at full stack that is not counting a separate turn so he could get YK and Bronya buff. And all of those solution will be in the eidolon
He is 1.0 so he is clearly old and usually in the first years, dev don't really know how to balance characters. And they have yet to put the solution of a character into the eidolon/duplicate. It is not very wise to push for it when the game is new, but rather pushing it slowly.
For Seele or JY case, they are the first waves of units so their issue are not solved with eidolon. Comparing to other new character eidolon, even if you pull e6 they are not even that big of increase of those brand new chars at e1 or e2.
I don't think he will ever get better to be meta even with new support coming out.
The only good thing for JY is that he is infact very consistent in all game mode. LL is moving at a fixed speed and 1 a cycle so you can always expect him to finish everything in from somewhere like 0-2 cycle for the current and forseeable content with a decent build assuming each boss HP bar take 1 LL or less.
When I bring him for a boss with 3 HP bar, I know that it will take 2 or less cycle and very comfy to arrange his team and put better support in the other team instead
the only way to fix him is by actually fixing his kit instead of releasing a bazillion ton of new supports and relics
Yukong , you can run cogs and skill every 3 turns when using bronya luocha. Or 2 turn with tingyun luocha. In il team. Otherwise you can spam.😂
You don't really get Yukong. She's all about lining up ultimates - that's the best way to make use of her. I have used a quite good team of Yukong Ratio Welt Aventurine, which could comfortably 3 to 4 cycle MOC 12
I see hypercarry as a generic setup,almost any dps can use it but its not its best team. I sorta like it cuz it can sumtimes eases options
While he's by no means terrible, the best way to buff him would be something that MASSIVELY buffs a single attack that isn't just spammable. Even then, Lighting Lord can still be unreliable and that buffed attack may just get wasted on an enemy that is almost dead already.
Imagine if Yukong e6 is in trace and e6 increasing stavk form 2 to 3. She gonna be fucking op😂
Jingyuan's worst problem is that lightning lord is slow af and the fact that it gets pushed back if jy is crowd control.
His dps honestly is alright
Teammates are important, but I don't think Hoyo will ever release a chracter that make Hook, Arlan or Yanquing as at least Dr Ration (the one you could get for free) or free Hunt March. Like Yunli also straight powercrept Clara and regardles of team Yunli will always be better
Great vid, but if I may offer a feedback, don't do any flashing/flickering lights on the chapter title cards. It's really disorienting even for someone without epileptic tendencies. I know it's for the TV effect, but you can do other CRT TV-like effects like screen tearing and artifacting instead of making the whole screen periodically flash
King Yuan theorem!!!!
teammates make my clara hypercarry go nuts
Love jing yuan and argenti
My life is pain sometimes but my e2 firefly fixes all my problems
It doesn't matter if I clear in 8 cycles with jing my firefly 0 cycles so I can cope XD
im guessing by the title that you're a fellow false swipe gaming fan?
"the Dozing General"
Can I ask where you got the excel chart for Acheron's support combos? Or did you calculate them yourself? That's a very interesting chart.
If we had teamwide hp buffer support like ruan mei, robin. How much it will buff blade and fu xuan? Can you do a video about it? I see some hp scaling in fu xuan kit, she can do respectable damage I guess
I'm planning to get him so i'll watch the vid either way
every time a new Harmony character drops, they always "coincidentally" increase his damage by 20% compared to the previous one. i guess theyre just blueballing and cashmaxxing lol
8:11 ah yes, the sleepy general)
Goated video
if only we have character that can buff summon to increase speed or dmg
Are you perhaps a fan of false swipe gaming and competitive pokemon?
Omg, the intro segment, then "kings and queens and everyone in-between" XD what an amazing start to this video already
Jing yuan the classic timelesss dps😊
very fun & cool theory !
I just took this as a Kaegan simp yap fest. Pretty good for my ears.
when seele theorem?
I thought this was the Tyranitar theorem
summon meta is coming soon
card swipe gaming
unlike other characters they dont get restricted too much without the meta supports and can still do respectable damage. having jing yuan while not having any of the meta supports just means ur bricked ur jing yuan
you're kind of missing the point of the video? it's that Jing Yuan scales better with meta supports? and don't say "what if you have no meta supports" because your account is bricked either way
@@fuecocomaster5463 he scales better means he does considerably worse without them. i dont have ruan mei, sparle, fu xuan, or luocha. it takes me some effort to full star MoC, PF, and AS, but i can still get full stars. my JY however is completely unusable
To be fair, not having any of the new harmony supports either you are a new player, or you made the wrong decisions in your account, skipping any of them is downright killing your account in the long term
@@JoaoVictor-hq8zv like i said, i did fuck up. but hes downright unusable unlike others
You don't have character bcz you lost 5050
I don't have character bcz i want to suffer.
Jk
I just thought of this team, yukong fexiao moze and lingsha sp positive.
What a fucking based intro
omg i can't believe u think Jing yuan is the best unit in the game didn't you know he got powercrept by acheron
For legal reasons this is a joke
Third
Potential man? You mean clearing moc in almost 10 cycle with his best support? Yea soo much potential man (E2) btw.
my e0 jing yuan is clearing stages at 3 cycles consistently in moc12 with e0 supports, i think you built him wrong
@@tsuki5993 and my e0 acheron can 0 cycle. I think you play the wrong character
blud this argument isn't helping you
Skill issue at it's finest, did it in 3 with galagher sustain, Sparkle and tingyun, everyone was E0S0, taking 9 cycles is entirely your skill issue in using him
His damage multiplier is NOT that impressive, cuz Lighting Lord takes forever to attack. He's also bad for hypercarry cuz Lighting Lord is unpredictable and unreliable for buffing.
Also, hypercarry is the strongest it's ever been since Firefly hypercarry is the strongest team EVER, it's not even close. Hypercarries in the past, while good and even the "best" team in some cases, were vastly overrated.
i know you said you’ve had writers block recently so just wanted to comment to say thank you for getting this video done!! great job! 🩷