What Jubilee ATTRACTIVENESS RANKINGS expose about the culture wars
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
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0:00 Intro to the culture wars
4:07 Thank you, Skillshare!
8:11 [THE WOMEN] "Close our eyes" | Feel the vibes...
16:17 "Nobody wants to be last"
18:06 [THE MEN] "You're attractive, you're not" | Honesty vs. nicety
24:44 Final ranking
FEATURED JUBILEE VIDEOS
• Whose Boyfriend is the...
• Men Rank 5 Women by At...
• Ranking Women By Attra...
• Ranking Women By Looks...
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Q: Why do you pronounce "women" the same as "woman"?
A: I am South African with a particular Queen's English/south of England tinge to my accent. Please be understanding, respectful and don't send me emails or leave comments about this. Thank you :)
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The first 500 people to use my link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare skl.sh/kidology01241
Salutations! Thank you so much for all your questions for my upcoming Q&A video. Because I currently have over 3hrs of footage responding your questions, it will be out in February once I've edited it down sufficiently. If you have any more questions, leave them under my community post! Take good care out there, gobble gannets :)
OOOOH you upgraded your camera lenses! I knew you were glowing more than usual… nice 👌
at 13:52 I think you're thinking of the word fake. I've noticed a lot of people think women are completely different than men or that women know women. To be a Bl*ck queer woman or a Bl*ck person in general in dating ethnicity is a far bigger factor than many realize. If I want to match with people attracted to my gender and have the same hobbies it's more challenging than if my appearance were different.
Wyt people love to say "Be yourself". I feel a Black person is more likely to experience those compliments at first but no commitment behind those compliments. More of a concern of "I want to look good" than wanting to be genuine.
Kidology, you're a solid 8 imho. Wanna get pregnant? :)
Hey been a minute since I sat down to watch a full video, always working.
This maybe the best video I have seen. Out of you. Geuinely I like your perspective here a lot and I'm glad to see you sharing it. I honestly think there has been this strange dynamic youre describing in the culture since even I was a boy growing up in the dog days of the internet in the late 00s. There has a been a strange attitude around transparency and honesty. Thank you for seeing it and making a video over it. Best of luck kid.
"incredibly distrusting of anybody who approaches me"
No kidding.
Here is the problem: you cannot "not hurt people's feelings" if you do a beauty hierarchy, no matter if it is fake.
Nobody wants to hear they're ugly even when they are
I disagree. I think it's very possible.
The problem lies with relying so much on external appearances for our self-worth. Imagine if the contest was about height instead of physical attractiveness. Would anyone be butthurt about it? Probably not, because height is an objective measurable standard. However, all the scientific evidence we have on the matter indicate that physical attractiveness is also quite objective and culturally universal. And since other traits like personality matter when choosing a mate, then why should being last in a physical attractiveness contest matter? A person can have the most symmetrical face with the perfect mathematical proportions and an ideal muscle/bodyfat ratio, but if they're unpleasant to be around, then nobody will want them.
There is also very obvious selection bias. Because, the type of person who would participate to such an event as a physical attractiveness contest is also the type of person who would value it in a disproportionate manner, either positively or negatively.
PS: Besides, physical attractiveness is greatly affected by other factors, like style or poise. Being well-dressed, well-groomed, having good posture, exhibiting positive body-language, or having an earnest smile, can easily outweigh natural physical attractiveness.
@@noxterynwhile I mostly agree with you I do have to push back on beauty standards being culturally universal as while there may be similarities between cultures there is a lot of variation in what different cultures find beautiful. There is even variation in what the same culture finds beautiful but in different periods of time.
"People who call themselves brutally honest are more often concerned about the "brutally" than the "honest"" is a quote that I think explains the honesty argument pretty well
I was thinking the same thing
Then ignore the "brutal" part and just get the "honest" message. Emotional answers will always try to convince you everyone is at fault and not you. Whoever gave you that quote wants to be able to emotionally control you. You know, the "Im saying it nicely therefore i can't be manipulative"
Exactly, I think of my ex friend who insulted my appearance without me asking for her opinions and followed with saying that she was being honest. I realized that she was coping with her jealousy and insecurity by bringing me down.
@@Luixxxd1 na. This ain't it. If you care more about being rude then the honesty part is just the cherry on top.
@@jonathanthompson592 the only people focusing on rudeness are the ones crying about how mean the messenger is for saying the things they said. Nobody is looking to hurt you, stop chasing this victim status and work on yourself
I love how unconvinced they look after reshuffle. 😂 The idea that any woman is clueless about her own or another woman’s perceived attractiveness is objectively laughable. We are painfully aware of the beauty standards, and how we and the women around us measure up to them.
Painfully aware but also painfully unable to be objective at the same Time, just my 2 cents
@@Jordan-jv1tz Women are actually very objective when it comes to measuring attractiveness. We simply don’t have enough freedom to call everyone average or unattractive so openly (either because we’re aware we could be called ugly as a comeback if we do that, or because we don’t find it necessary to put someone down over their looks).
@@aquaaria3489 EXACTLY. 😂 What’s already understood needs no explaining.
tbf there is a problem that they have lined themselves up in the first place, because those who rate are often compensating too much wanting to be fair. For instance, if a girl that they would otherwise rate 3, is lined up as the last one, they could give her the second or even the first place (assuming good personality and that no one is super attractive). If she is the first when they walk in, she can fall to 4th. The best would be if the people are in completely random positions or even won't line up.
Another problem is that none of those girls are actually ugly (understandably so, because a few ugly people would ever go there), they look very similar to each other. One is fat, one is tall, but their faces look normal.
Also, in that lighting everyone seems unflattering in my mind, very clinical stock photo feel. I can't imagine feeling any attraction there, though people are usually always normal looking.
@@aquaaria3489 women put men down on all the time randomly dont act or pretend lol
kindness without honesty is manipulation
honesty without kindness is cruelty
Kindness without honesty is manipulation.
Cruelty are lies.
How can Honesty without kindness be cruel, when cruelty is lying? Your logic makes no sense. Honesty doesn't cater to feelings, it caters to truth, which is often unappealing... the whole Pretty lies and ugly truths, that is more accurate
Honesty without kindness is not cruel, it’s just blunt. Cruelty is taking delight in the suffering of others. Don’t get it twisted
I agree with @rhett3185 honesty shouldn’t always be sugar coated
@@Luixxxd1 cruelty can be more than one thing
Going up to, idk say a collegue, and just listing off things you dont like about them (they are annoying, they have bad music taste, they are not pleasant to look at, maybe acomidating for their disability is annoying to you, etc.) may be honest but it is also cruel.
@@rhett3185 i see what you are saying, however most definitions i have found say its deliberate, not necessarily to take delight.
and id say that in many cases you have to be kind in order to make sure that your bluntness is not unnecessarily cruel. (for example, there is a difference in being blunt in private and in front of a crowd, or between saying it in a moment of distress and in a calmer moment)
It was hilarious when they put the Asian girl last.
I'm an andro looking dark skinned BW. In certain environments I'm treated worse than furniture. I know there are some things I could change about my appearance to be more likable, but being attractive to men feels like a double edged sword. Sometimes I would rather just be furniture.
Felt
I know exactly what you mean, exactly. However my feelings stem from childhood sexual abuse and my own suppressed emotions about it. ❤
Tbh the girls did the same they put the black guy last. Most people prefer people of their own race many of them are racist as well. And it’s honestly better to not get. Chosen if you knew the scum that many humans actually are you really wouldn’t care
That thing about lesbian spaces is so true. We're all so obsessed with beauty that we fall over ourselves to tell each other that we're beautiful. I'm very secure with myself, I know that I'm not the most attractive woman in the world and I don't feel the need to be. Yet the way these women speak to me you'd think I was a goddess... until it actually comes to having further interaction with me, and then suddenly, they're not interested. As much as they know the rules of body positivity and they know that they are supposed to act like I'm the most beautiful woman they've ever seen, they are still governed by western beauty standards, and can still tell that I do not meet them.
Maybe you're just not their type? I can find women pretty and still have 0 romantic interest in them. I don't think that's unusual.
@@payasoinfeliz I'm not talking about something once or twice, I'm talking about my experience with almost every woman I interact with. Of course I'm not their type. I'm not anyone's type. I'm fat. That's what I mean: these women know that they're supposed to call me pretty, that they are supposed to perform positivity, but at the end of the day almost everyone is unwilling to date a fat woman. Of course, I have been in relationships, with people who I met in person and had a solid foundation of friendship with first. Once personality comes into play, people are interested, but dating apps are not really a place where personality comes into play.
Actually, I haven't been on dating apps in about a year and a half, and I've lost a significant amount of weight since then. I do still think of myself as fat, but I'm finding that other people no longer think of me in that way. I wonder if my experience would be different if I downloaded a dating app right now.
Women usually do that when they see someone well put together. Like you have good style sense. Why would they just go out of their way to be nice. Don't be so cynical all the time. They are probably sincere.@@sarahclayton5845
@@sarahclayton5845the more fit you become the different your experiences on these apps will be. I think the short gist of this whole video is that women are more likely to be fake and say the “right” things in order to appear like good people,and not be hurtful but they forget that most of us aren’t dumb, we know what’s attractive we understand the reality and it’s more hurtful to lie to someone than to be honest. nobody understands this better than incels, and yet they have been demonized by the mainstream. It’s almost like there’s an effort to keep people believing the lies. those days are over, the truth has always been the best way.
Would you rather be rejected and know why or rejected and not know why.
@@sarahclayton5845 Go for it. I met my fiance on a dating app and my sister met her husband there too. 😊
I'm a straight black girl and get told I'm "pretty" all the time but it's mostly by other straight (often white) girls that I wouldn't date and who wouldn't date me. Because of this, I tend to catch myself wondering what being considered "pretty" even means when you're black and I sometimes can't help but rather not get called "pretty" at all...
As long as you're smiling 😁
From my experience it's social signalling: reassuring the person that we mean them good will and we're prepared to flatter them. But yes, you're correct in being skeptical when White people say Black people are 'pretty' or 'handsome' when clearly indigenous European societies have selected bright, colourful appearances over dark ones.
@@BarriosGroupiethere’s nothing wrong it.
Sometimes straight girls just pick up on you putting effort into your appearance, and they think that's the compliment you'd appreciate. I really don't think they put much thought into it besides wanting to make you feel good.
I'm confused is it not seen as a compliment because a lighter girl said it...
I think the discussion of pretty privilege is really complex. I've seen some women talking about how they don't like their pretty privilege because it leads to them being sexually harassed, though I do think that women who stand out (because of various reasons, including beauty) can be more harassed than others, it really undermines the fact that a lot of women, of various backgrounds and appearances, get harassed. Also, this will sound awful, but if you really don't want pretty privilege, it's quite easily to lose it. Gain weight, eat something that you know will break you out, get a bad haircut, don't wear makeup, wear unattractive clothing; the reality is that being both ugly/invisible are harder realities to endure, than being pretty or beautiful.
I am a fat old lady, and still experience sexual harassment. When I was a geeky 10 year old, pedos harassed. I fought off a number of attempted rapes. I was 11-14, and not acceptably attractive. When I was in the 8th grade, a group of boys sexually harassed me with impunity. whenever I called the cops on stalkers back in the 80s , they said “Maybe he just wants to date you”, and WOMEN thought I was boasting. Stalking was what happens to every woman. One “friend” responded “you’re not THAT attractive”
Yea I don't trust anyone who supposedly complains about their pretty privilege. All you have to do is not wear makeup, put on a baseball cap, and not wear form-fitting clothing and all of a sudden you're average. Of course attractive women wouldn't do this though...because then nobody would notice them lol
>Also, this will sound awful, but if you really don't want pretty privilege, it's quite easily to lose it. Gain weight, eat something that you know will break you out, get a bad haircut, don't wear makeup, wear unattractive clothing; the reality is that being both ugly/invisible are harder realities to endure, than being pretty or beautiful.
This is true - if someone really hates their pretty privilege to the point that they would prefer to not have it, they can more easily take action to lose pretty privilege than someone can take to gain pretty privilege. There are some who have been sexually assaulted who do intentionally gain a lot of weight or wear boxy clothing, etc, as a "shield" against attention from men.
But except in these kinds of cases, the benefits of being pretty outweigh the downsides.
@@RFdaniel I think it becomes an inconvenience among same gender groups because it triggers distrust and cruelty.
People may perceive you to be mean and assume that you think you’re better than everyone else.
People will try to “humble” you before you even open your mouth and feel righteous doing it because they anticipate you being a b1tch first.
It’s harder to make friends when people think you’ll sleep with their husbands.
People will be suspicious in the workplace if they think you’re sleeping your way to the top.
If something bad happens to you like an attack, suddenly it will be ‘understandable’ because they think you’re very attractive.
You’ll never be aware of why someone is talking to you and when they’ll lose interest. Every close interaction is questionable.
Even if you don’t wear makeup, other women can get even more insecure because you ‘aren’t trying too hard and still more beautiful’. Which invites accusations of being a pick-me, etc, etc.
Anyway, there are definitely inconveniences to beauty. Mostly when you’re among the same gender.
@@-...-zed-...- thank you for saying the truth, people think its easier being ugly, theres a reason why its called pretty privilege
Ah yes, the biggest privilege that no one seems to want to do anything about. Pretty privilege.
And one that overwhelmingly benefits one gender over the other...
@@M_P_N no it doesn't the difference is in the way it manifests and how much it matters, as for women it is a much more of a factor in employment, salary etc., because men are oddballs. Ironically your statement is flipped on it's head, because it means for any women who is not pretty enough, they have less opportunities. Whereas for men that privilege matters less, meaning there is less to gain from being pretty, but that is because employment and salary is less likely to have factors based on looks.
People don't even wanna talk about it let alone do anything about it
@@M_P_N No way, it's definitely a huge issue on both sides.
"Any minority would rather be called the worst racial slur according to their group than be pointed out as unattractive" Doug Stanhope.
Now let me also point out that men are by no means honest in these situations either, men pander to each other, they'll rank women in a way that they think other men would, but their personal attractions are rarely if ever discussed amongst each other. There are men that specifically find fat women attractive, there are men that will always pick blondes over brunettes or the other way around, there are men that have preferences for specific facial features and so on. As a fat woman I can tell you that men care a LOT about how they're being perceived and so their partner being seen as attractive by other people often is a strong reason for being in a committed relationship with someone, but when it comes to aesthetic or sexual attraction they'll often seek it out outside of their relationships (either inbetween relationships or actually 'on the side').
I'll never have a shortage of people sliding into my DM's, but men (or women even for that matter) that want to be in a public relationship with me are far more rare because they are incredibly concerned about their friends and family judging their partner's looks.
Petite women with moderate curves, an average pretty face, long hair and approachable clothing style will usually end up being ranked as most attractive, not because an individual finds it most attractive but because it is the most acceptable way of being attractive in the eyes of society as a whole.
If you are alternative looking, not white, have short hair, distinct facial features or are taller/fatter than the ideal then you're already being shoved into a box, whether any specific person finds you attractive doesn't matter because society deems you less desirable.. So I don't think this video illustrates women's pandering vs men's brutal honesty, I think it shows that both sides will conform to societal expectation and group pressure.
i agree, men are more likely to follow the oppinion of other people when it comes to what "should" be attractive, but women who dont get into the conventionally attractive box at least get validation and sex (wheter that is good or not is up to the individual) but men who are not conventionally attractive maybe get a platitude if they dont make things awkward when they talk about their dating woes, but no woman is cheating on their average/above average man with a short/fat/skninny/bald guy, they are cheating with even more attractive men.
exactly, we are all great at deluding ourselves and eachother.
Well said.
I totally agree. This video lacks insight and forms a very surface level examination.
I completely agree! As an average Black woman I can get dates, but finding a guy that will commit to me? That's been a real uphill struggle.
The men were more honest, but when it comes to attractiveness it’s also hard to discern honesty because everyone has different preferences. There’s a difference between conventional attractiveness and personal taste. If I rated women’s attractiveness, my answers would be different if I was basing it on beauty standards vs personal preference.
I think atrative and beautful is duferents things
This. Not to mention the peer pressure of a majority of the men having the same preferences, so even if one of them doesn’t fully agree, men tend to yield to that peer pressure. You see it here and IRL!
That and straight men generally have no real sense of beauty. There is a reason why good male artists and fashion designers tend to swing gay.
@Sylvester272 I'm a lesbian, and I agree that I would put those two higher up than the men did. Jordan isn't necessarily my "type", but I think she has a pretty face and her style especially makes her curves look good. I feel like these Jubilee videos are mainly meant to be rage bait. The women are also being put in a completely different situation than the men are because they're speaking directly to the people they're rating. If they brought in one group of straight women to rank a different group of women who can't hear them, I wonder if the results would differ.
yeah you are right
I don't understand drawing conclusions from videos like this because the execution is automatically flawed.
Had each individual been in their own private booth with only pictures of each woman in a similar nuetral-colored outfit, then it would be more genuine. And, if personality is also being used as a metric for attractiveness, then they would have each woman interact with each guy for like 2-5 minutes then rate. Group settings cause people to yield to each other's opinions, and filming only amplifies this.
Essentially, there's too many external variables but it's easier to make generalizations like "Men = honest & Women = fake" because it helps validate the perspectives people already want to have rather than considering those extra variables. Even then, none of this can really compare to the billions of real world interactions.
That said, I'm tired of the "Beauty is objective" stance people love to have because one look at history and you'd be surprised by what people idolized. In the middle ages, a large forehead was so attractive that there was a practice of plucking out hairs so far back to give the illusion of a big head. Along with plucking eyebrows and eyelashes, they wanted an extreme hairless look which today would be deemed "unnatural." China had a weird footbinding practice that impact nearly 50% of women up to the 1900's because men found broken feet arousing...Right now, short hair is shunned as manly when historically women's hair was covered or braided up-even the 1950's are filled with updos that curl just above the shoulders. Hell the 1980s west favored a flat chested "boyish look" to the point extreme dieting was common; now curves are promoted.
Beauty is subjective
Best comment 🙌
yeah you are right
More like women=honest,,men=fake
Love this comment, I had the same thoughts. If they were in their own private booth, wore the same neutral outfits AND had their identities hidden for the full extent of the video, then you’d get some interesting results. But yeah, even then it’s obviously just a small sample size anyways and I completely agree that these kinds of videos are internet rage bait for people looking to reaffirm their own confirmation biases.
yes... i'm glad you made this video because those videos are beyond disingenuous. and you're right-- there's this use of PR like language to uplift people who are normally marginalized or forgotten about but then when brought back down to reality... that language is rendered as irrelevant since NONE of it holds up. the fat, the disabled, the POCs, etc are not really characterized as being beautiful when the rankings come out. i also think jubilee does not create these videos for the sake of honesty, it's more for sensationalism and reactionary content coming out afterwards. like... jubilee could easily have people who are similarly yolked in terms of appearance come on and then that would be more interesting, but could be racially diverse, instead, they take the most divergent people and create a game of how polite/pc people can be and we just know it isn't aligned with real life.
body neutrality is a thing that looks more realistic and effective than body positivity (that just make a box of what people can see as beautiful bigger imo)
Lets fix the previous made up concept with a new made up concept. This will totally not go the same way.
But body positivity *IS* body neutrality.
@@Luixxxd1Body neutrality is just about placing less of your personal worth on your appearance, therefore not caring much if you get called ugly or pretty because it doesn’t matter very much to you. You focus more on keeping your body healthy and hygienic, and otherwise have other concerns in life. Looks do matter, and an attractive person lands dates more easily, but in the grand view of life and its hardships, attractiveness is irrelevant, and it’s your own character that gives you peace.
@@reckonerwheel5336 exactly, let use this made up subjective concept to replace this other made up subjective concept. I swear people have learned what words are but didn't stop for a second to understand HOW words work. Subjectivity is going to be the bane of human race for a long time. Democracy was a mistake
@@reckonerwheel5336 how about this: let's stop creating new terms to pretend we are part of something brand new, unique and especial, and instead people start using the words we already have, like fat, health, obesity, overweight and exercise, instead of trying to appeal to group think? is that too much to ask?
I remember seeing a short about this and a lot of men in the comments were like "The last girl is first because her beauty is kindness!" Sir, all these women are exactly like her on some level of their "kindness". You and I both know you're full of it.
I mean she was objectively pretty attractive and her personality also shined through. No wonder she was placed the first
maybe it was the underdog effect?
IMO not really. She wasn't really that much different. Perhaps slightly more silent, of which doesn't really display her personality at all but rather the opposite.@@bratwurstmitbiryani
This I agree with a little plus physical looks obviously. It had nothing to do with her personality though, those men didn't know her and the idea that you can sense someone's personality is a lie. It's either to do with charm, or silence, nothing more. Otherwise people would sense they're around a serial killer when the unfortunate circumstance has come up.@@lectivalzahard8533
@@murtleturtle4027 our opinions differ then
I think beauty standard is not a synonym for attractiveness. I think beauty standard is what is pushed by media and rewarded (financially and socially) by infrastructures. Attractiveness will always be subjective, beauty standard not so much. Plus, who people want vs. who they can get are different so that skews attractiveness too. Someone might say they like short girls but who knows if that would be their preference if it weren't for the social stigma of being shorter than your gf. When Kim Kardashian came on the scene she wasn't the beauty standard but she was undeniably attractive. Other examples are Beyoncé, J Lo, and Salma Hayek who were all attacked for being "too curvy" or whatever bs but are undeniably attractive
Honesty tempered by kindness is truly the rarest card to find in the real world.
yeah it is truly rare
This is why truth spoken in love is a really important Christian ethic. Truth is supposed to be edifying, but truth without love is not really beneficial. Likewise, love is redemptive, but love without truth has no substance and is not really loving. Only when they are together are love and truth expressed in their fullness.
Thank you. It’s refreshing to hear anyone say that men and women can both bring positive and negative perspectives to the table.
I definitely feel like men are way into “telling it like it is” when in reality it’s like you say, there’s a nice way to go about discussing things.
There’s a good expression about ‘brutal honesty’ and ‘the ugly truth’- “Some people enjoy the brutality much more than the honesty.” I think about that a lot.
No one will be honest about rating someone's looks in front of a camera. That's why Tinder data is a much better source to indicate what men and women are REALLY looking for.
Tinder isn't the best metric either since there are fewer women on the platform.
Tinder data is heavily skewed and the app is literally acknowledged as the “hook up app” I don’t think that is credible
This is true, and it's why I think everyone interested in the subject should read the book Dataclysm. It was written by the founder of OKCupid, and contains all the results from the years of collecting their users' data. One of those findings was that what people claim to be attracted to (ie what they say) and what they are actually attracted to (ie what they do) are often very different.
Heavily disagree for the reasons the other two people mentioned. Also it’s a self-opting in sample, not a random one
I think the biggest factor was accents, I found it funny that the guy with the posh accent was described as baby-ish etc. Before he was allowed to speak and as soon as he spoke they were saying how put together his life is etc. Complete 180 mainly because of his accent. That's good for you Kidology with your super posh accent.
The problem with this whole concept that reflects on modern society at large isn't so much the fact that people aren't honest about their personal 'rating', but rather that they are conditioned to rate attractiveness in the first place.
And this is by no means just an incel thing. So many people think they're looking for someone who is 'their type', when in reality they are just subconciously acting upon what they have been conditioned to by modern culture and media.
The obvious truth is that different people find different people attractive, but it takes effort (and sometimes courage) to acknowledge this. To say 'yes, I'm into this person' - even if you know that society (or family or friends or followers) might deem them undesirable or even ugly.
I'm starting to think that's the point: the struggle to recognize what we find attractive and to differentiate that from what we think "the world" or "society" finds attractive. That's why I think the phrase "ugly-hot" exists so we can express that... dichotomy? I don't think that's a perfect word to use here but you know what I mean.
Joanna Angel said once that she was a big loser in high school, but there was this one jock who definitely had a thing for her because they both wound up making eye contact with each other for longer periods of time than their friend groups. She thought it would have been preferable for both of them to just fuck in private and not tell anybody about it so they could have what they wanted and not get judged for it. As someone who felt a similar way about a lot of people in high school, I understood the idea: *you can't admit what you like without being mocked for it.*
Exactly.
Fact
I love this comment so much! a huge problem I have in this video is that Kid seems very bitter and jaded about her individual experiences that she assumes that the culture she lives in has an objective monopoly over beauty, and that there is a set hierarchy of beauty of everyone should "acknowledge", when in reality there is a conditioned hierarchy of beauty. Her bad experiences experiences with dating is a result of people conditioned to find certain features more desirable than others. This myth of objective beauty leads to pointless embarrassment that some might feel about dating those who fit in the conditioned category of "not desirable"
I've experienced fatphobia my whole life, and seeing this video was no surprise. For 2 ish years in my uni, my classmates ignored me and would choose to talk to other people over me.
But then during the holidays I lost around 15kgs, and suddenly everyone is nice to me and I feel like a part of the group.
I remember watching videos by leftists that were like OMG personality over appearance anyday bro, but then IRL people are obsessed with being conventionally attractive. It's pathetic, really.
I would love for people to be more honest while being nice, as Kidology said.
I can really relate to this, I also lost a lot of weight a time ago and I really struggle to accept all the kindness and friendliness people offer me now, because they didn’t ever offer it when I was less conventionally attractive…
@@leah_566 tbh it's like a blessing in disguise, because you can now separate people who genuinely care about personality from the "politically correct" side. My experience helped me learn to not be a doormat to people who are kinda nice to me. You won't really put people on a pedestal after having seen their "real" side
I would see this as a motivator for people to become more healthy. Humans are usually attracted to more healthier lifestyles appearance included
Yeah I guess that if you know that you're not attractive and everyone says you are because they feel sorry for you, don't actually make you feel better about yourself. Though facial beauty matters more than weight in my mind.
@@analogueapples if you’re a normal weight you’re already doing better than 72% of americans
Tbh I’ve come to the point where I view every adult’s compliment towards me as disingenuous. Not because I think you’re a liar, but because most people are capable of just saying what feels right.
I’ve had people tell me one thing than participate in another. We still heavily gatekeep “what is beautiful”, and as a black woman…y’all can keep it. I love beauty culture and aesthetics but, it’s too far gone. The only compliments I’ll consider are the ones from close family/friends and children. There’s always some agenda to this beauty thing, and it’s quite exhausting.
Edit, I also deeply appreciate compliments that attach value to the creative process of my appearance. Like when someone notices how you paired colours together in your makeup, or outfit. It’s much more thoughtful than saying someone is just “hot”. So no I’m not a sociopath for thinking general comments on your appearance are surface level. If I could pay bills off someone saying “you’re so pretty”…then I might change my opinion
I would highly recommend therapy if you haven't sought it out and have the means for it.
@@sepulcher8263 ?
I think of it as a script that we all know we are supposed to follow.
I go off script once in awhile, and people don't like that. I know when I'm doing it. Like now even haha.
Truly though, that was a beautiful comment, and I know you're beautiful by it.
@@sepulcher8263you don't need therapy for not caring for strangers compliments LOL. Pls....
@@sepulcher8263 lol I have gone to therapy but I would also encourage it for yourself
I agree. I prefer the honesty. Lol I'm not convinced and they don't look convinced lol
I can't deal with people who deny the fact pretty privilege doesn't actually mean or do anything. The hell it doesn't.
I knew from the third grade it was a real thing because though I was very similar in personality and intelligence to my more-popular girlfriends, I wasn't as conventionally attractive as them and quickly fell out of touch with them as the gaps between cliques grew over time.
(Edit: Not to mention I was bullied for all kinds of things by the "mean girls" and these friends were just...left alone, basically, or even recruited by the "mean girls". ...Y'all remember the song "High School Never Ends" by Bowling For Soup?)
And yes, this absolutely does start in grade school.
Some people are prettier than others. That's just a fact. It being a "privilege" is only a myth your brain is trying to convince you to not feel bad about your issues instead of owning them "oh it's not my fault, it's just because I'm ugly". In the same sense that, some people are more intelligent than others, but is there intelligence a "privilege"? Only a person blinded by victim mentality would consider these privileges. Some people suffer BECAUSE of their beauty/intelligence not in spite of it and you cannot ignore that fact.
Every person in this life has been given different cards to deal with. You included. Just because you don't understand what hardships your "pretty" friends face because of their beauty doesn't mean that they're "privileged". Just because a person is born with high IQ or a pretty face doesn't mean they'll be privileged in life it might actually ruin them. The same is with a person of low IQ and an ugly face. It's what you do with the cards you've been given that makes it into a privileged life or a disadvantaged one.
@@yuzan3607 They have literally done studies that show being more attractive actively grants you more benefits than less attractive people lmao
@@yuzan3607you’re acting as if you can’t change to look better? Some things have been studied upon and have concluded that looking prettier does give you real world advantages
@@yuzan3607certain attributes can create certain advantages. A person can be disadvantaged in one area and privileged in the next. If a person is "pretty/handsome" they often are able to get hired more easily and get less harsh prison sentences. Of course we all come with a mixed bag of traits and it's up to us how to use these traits but there are still objective truths in how these traits either benefit or disadvantage us within the society we live in.
@@Dr_DingleI don’t think they are disagreeing with you, but they are pointing out that it can be a double edged sword, and it is less talked about
The thing about these kinds of videos that annoys me is that while pretty privilege is definitely real (expressive eyes, fertility signs/signs of sexual maturity, symmetry etc are pretty universal as pretty traits all over the world), beauty is also so SUBJECTIVE. For example, I live in Sweden, and while a lot of people romanticize Swedes as super hot, I find blond hair and blue eyes very BORING, and because I have trouble recognizing faces I get very confused (There are five dudes at my campus who I thought was the same person, and I have interacted with all of them).
I also find myself wishing I was shorter or taller, that I had darker eyes or maybe freckles, because although I have been told I am "objectively attractive", I feel there is nothing about me that is noteworthy where I live. I am so so average in everything. I am the kind of person who loves novelty and I search for novelty all the time, so people who stand out of the crowd visually entice me and I am more attracted to them. I think a lot of others also love novelty, it is very human to love new things or unusual things.
I also think that fellow artists will agree that there is beauty everywhere. If I sit down and draw even those I think look too similar, I will in the end find differences and maybe "flaws" that I think make them stand out and very beautiful. Maybe not all people share this type of outlook but if I was in a Jubilee video I would rank us in our "character design" aka "would it be fun and exciting to draw this person or not". That is beauty to me.
Also, I have been attracted to so many "generally attractive" people for example, but as soon as they show me a really nasty side or treat me bad I stop seeing them as attractive subjectively, even if I can admit they are still objectively hot. Like that Roald Dahl comic about the ugly vs pretty lady.
Would be fun if the jubilee rankings were made in a vacuum where people let their actual subjective opinions show.
If you out there reading this are a person who seems to get no action whatsoever, I do think there is someone out there who would find you cute, because of personal preferences. For example my taste in men has been notoriously "bad", as in I have had friends jokingly ask when I would date someone hot (newsflash I thought the people I dated were hot).
My personal issue is that I am loud and annoying, but one day maybe I''ll date someone who enjoys that HAHA
Hi kidology. Thank you for being here to always cheer me up. The way you have such a goofy personality but also are super informative and humanitarian always makes me feel happy to look forward to your videos. ❤
I think one thing we don't consider is that a lot of us men rate people's looks not based on an objective measure of how good looking they are but a subjective point of view on who we are more attracted to. Attraction doesn't always equal objective beauty because we all know people who aren't conveniently attractive that we find irresistible and conveniently attractive people who just don't do it for us and visa versa. I think it's hard to get this information from these people because many of them are seeing who is the most attractive to them and that's not a reliable way to measure objective beauty because subjective opinions come with a lot of bias and so that influence true data.
A thing to point out is that it takes a special type of weirdo to even particpate in Jubelie video. You could not pay me to have my looks rated by randoms and i would never want to rank other people as if they were cuts of meat. The whoke thing is so degrading...and all for an internet video.
Honestlyyyy these people are all LOCO!!!
I just stopped the video at the beginning to go watch the 2 jubilee videos and you are quite right " by trying to avoid to hurt everybody's feelings you end ...hurting everybody's feelings."
Excellent video
In their pursuit of making others feel "comfortable", it results in things being more awkward and uncomfortable.
I think the thing that confused me the most was how often the women would say that one of the others is more attractive was "personality." I had to rewind to check if I missed something because I don't understand how you can talk about the personality of someone you've just met.
Its a common tactic that people use in real life. "Personality" is often seen as some intangible thing that can't be described beyond a surface level and because of that its mostly just used as a euphemism. I've noticed even among men they'll struggle to be more specific when talking about "personality." When men describe a woman they find physically attractive they'll always be more specific and say she has beautiful eyes or a great figure or something (Usually something a bit more explicit)
Whenever one of my friends says they're talking to someone and they really like their personality I ask them to be more specific. I think the way someone looks actually tends to obsfucate their personality and people will only be attracted to a potential partner and will tout their personality as a bonus when they're just saying that in an attempt to not seem superficial.
I think when people say "personality", they usually mean extroversion and charisma. Especially in that context. You just notice who talks a lot and laughs at your jokes. You won't know any of participants at all, maybe they would steal your stuff the first chance they get or be just really boring if you want to have any deeper conversations, and the less talkative participants can be actually much more interesting. Not always the case, but usually having a personality means being outgoing.
I didn't even look at her face, but already don't want to date her. Because I disagree with her and feel angry and unpleasant she looks disgusting. How you see a person really depends on how they talk and about what, how they move, smell, laugh. There are so many things and nevertheless beautiful people are considered to be unpleasant as a partner. Very arrogant and selfish. It's a stereotype, but it also influences me and many other people.
Yup. Someone made a comment here that in the short showing the men vs women ratings men in the comments were saying the girl ranked last (by women) was ranked 1st by men partially due to her personality. Yeah no. They mention personality after the fact but the judgement was made due to the girls looks first.
Guys will say someone they find attractive and just met has a good personality, but really can’t describe it past “bubbly” or “interesting”.
Personality is charisma how someone carries themselves as respectful or mannerisms it's not that hard to understand
People say personality because they can't say that the person is attractive😂
You're right, the men's shuffle is what would happen more so in reality than the women's. But the women represent how women talk to each other in real life, which is why it's so hard to take compliments from other women when it comes to appearance as sincere. Having been in both a big body and a small body, there's a huge difference in how men interact with you in a lot of different spaces, but you get gas lit by friends who can't be honest with you in this capacity saying "It's just in your head, that's not how it actually is ". I think this really does a disservice to women in dating, especially because women already don't handle rejection well. And it's not about saying that you're completely undesirable or anything like that but I think when it comes to dating there really is an element of managing expectations and understanding that some people are just going to be much more attractive to much more people than others. And that's okay. Although dating is a big part of life, it is not the only part of life.
Congrats on going for your PhD.🎉🎉 I hope you don't stop uploading every once in awhile.
I've seen a meme in the feminist online spaces, something along the lines of *a generation of women raised on romance and men raised on porn is a recipe for disaster*, and I think there's a distant echo of this sentiment in your video. Like, women focus on the inner beauty (which in romance is lauded in the male love interest), while men focus on the outer beauty (which in porn is often kind of uhhh desecrated). I genuinely believe men and women are different, and it would be in everyone's best interest to acknowledge it. It's so dumb that the gender war became a culture war. I'm so glad to be a lesbian lol
anyway I always come back to that little two-part "boys alone" and "girls alone" social experiment documentary where they left two separate groups of 12 year old boys and girls unsupervised in a house for 5 days, and how it went down. Girls cooked and played and did fashion and talent shows, boys trashed the place on day one, quickly established a leader and hierarchy, and tortured a goddamn hedgehog.
Holy shit lol (that study)
I think men are more romantic than women.
"Girls cooked and played and did fashion and talent shows, boys trashed the place on day one, quickly established a leader and hierarchy, and tortured a goddamn hedgehog."
All of this does not eliminate the variable of upbringing and society, it's not a "tabula rasa." Nor is it human nature ("girls are like this, boys are like that", the old naturalistic fallacy)
personality is really important, I think most guys want a 6/10 + girl and from there will pick on personality, but when guys are prompted to rate attractiveness that just means visual, asking 'who is the most attractive woman in the world?' and 'what woman would you most want to date?' will have different answers.
I think you on to something
I do worry ppl draw too much of their ideas for how most ppl work from videos with small numbers of ppl mostly from a certain subjection of society. Not that there can't be interesting things to take away from these videos but they aren't a random definitive representative sample of all people and I also doubt how attracted you are to people you meet and get to know through the course of normal human life neccesarily maps onto how you would feel about strangers in the context of a social experiment youtube video.
I think the nuances of this stuff is that it reminds me of those experiments where people do the 'worst thing possible' out of politeness or even honesty. When they should just be rebelling against the system presented like a bunch of smart-asses in a show of solidarity. I think at the most reductive, stuff like this is really good at showing how solidarity can break down in the midst of 'controversy' with pointless shows of useless kindness and or honesty.
Also like, 'normal' people really are not so 'normal' in the face of all this contentious bullshit. To take the political abstraction even further, they are the same reason why they would reveal the target of prejudice to the fascists for extermination, just so they can appeal to some kind of 'order' and not think about anything but themselves.
It’s funny cause they try to be subversive by saying everyone is pretty or beautiful but ultimately just end up reinforcing the status quo
Reminds me of the "would you say the n word to end world peace" with people saying "no no I could never"😂
Do-gooder politics is such a perfect expression, and really boils down to innate narcissism and insecurity. We need more honesty.
Just like when someone is dismissive of someone having issues dating down to the person only as if toxic people don't exist and downplaying that
It's one thing to tell someone...
"I know it hurts and you been burnt alot but don't allow it to change you into becoming as toxic as them "...
Compared to "Not everyone is toxic you have to just have an upbeat attitude and be confident and you will find the one "
When they're doing that , they're creating more issues than solutions
The wlw online dating atmosphere is just genuinely insane to me😭. You dont HAVE to swipe on these people, they certainly wont know if you don’t, but you do, just to satisfy your politically correct do gooderness. Ill never understand it, thats why i try to stay far away from such apps. As someone who is wlw its hard tho because there is so few of us and dating apps just seem like the only way.
wholeheartedly disagree with most that was said. men are not “brutally honest”. in regard to attractiveness they just stick to what’s the current beauty standard without questioning the said standard. men pander to other men and disregard their own secret opinions (on what they find beautiful)
Thank God there are still people like you!
I’ll say it. I’m a bit disappointed you didn’t use a clip of Cusco saying “let me guess, you have a great personality” from Emperors New Groove.
everybody sure were thinking that and certainly waiting for someone to take up the mantle. Love It Thank You For You're Service.
13:05 Holy shit yes, dating online in wlw spaces is such a nightmare. I can't count how many time I've had a short back and forth conversation with someone "omg you're so gorgeous" "thank you so are you!" and then be completely ghosted when I try to take things to a real life date or onto a different platform to talk more. I just wish people were more honest in their interest/attraction to someone. It's hard out here for lesbians. 😭
Online dating is so bad I just gave up because I had the same issues as you sorry that happened to you
Yes the lesbian is all about looks .
Attractiveness is still subjective. There's a market for Tess Holliday out there, and also a market for Eugenia Cooney. Anya Taylor-Joy and Mia Goth are not the most physically attractive actresses according to the beauty standard, but they have armies of fans who consider them very attractive. I think they should ask the girls to rank themselves in terms of beauty standards and not attractiveness in general, because the beauty standard often dictates what the majority of people find attractive. The outcome would be better.
I remember Kid laughing about getting sponsors back in the day, glad you are making it.
I still hate the whole fact that racism among the left seems to massively exist when it comes to dating. "I will absolutely fight for equality for you and with you. Not judge you based on your skin colour in every aspect of your life...HOWEVER, like Kirachats, the idea of kissing a black person makes me feel physically sick".
"FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH!!!!"
Calling them out for it makes them show how defensive they are about it too. They know it's messed up but can rationalize it by playing the part of the "ally"
I say this as a lefty by the way. I'm half white yet dating outside of cities and in the ounk and metal scene can definitely be a bit sketch.
Young and tell everyone just wants their favourite band member, and most of them aren't black or even light brown.
It's not racism, it's a preference.
@@KidologyCO I followed her for a bit before I found out about hiw mental she is (got banned from twitch recently for basically being pro-terrorism). I got banned from her channel as I called her and her closest mods out for constantly being in the centre of racism related drama while pretending to give a crap about black people. She comes across as an actual psychopath. Like. For real.
I like that I can watch your videos and enjoy them even if I don’t agree with everything you’re saying. You speak very well and portray your thoughts in a clear way.
I like your attitude here. Balanced. For me, I feel honesty is the most caring thing one can do. But people need pampering and if my honesty can't be appreciated, or I get demonised for it, I'll save it for those deserving ones.
First of all: great video, strongly agree.
Second of all. I've always described this as "some people what what you say DOES and some people care whether what you say is TRUE." I definitely strongly prefer truth in all contexts, even if it means other people telling me I'm ugly, it's like: I own a mirror, you're not saying anything new I haven't heard before.
Also, I think one of the core features of how to be nice while being honesty, is non-repetition. This goes for both self-talk and talking to others. it's one thing to have a dark or cynical view of reality, it's another thing to linger on it. Being aware of ones flaws is good, constantly and repeatedly kicking yourself for them not so much. And when interacting with others it's one thing to be honest with someone and tell them you think they're unattractive, it's another to go out of your way to remind them of that fact, that's when it starts to be bullying.
it's all about remembering that we're irrational, and that we can hold something as being true in our head without hurting our feelings, but when someone else emphasizes it repeatedly it breaks down our ability to rationally separate ourselves from it.
This video is one of the deepest and most eye-opening analyses of our society's mental status quo. You are dropping one truth bomb after the other.
Dude, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I feel like the issue sweeps even more generally than issues around culture. Do you ever get the feeling that it's hard to do anything real now, maybe vis-a-vis Graber's "bullshit jobs"? That this gendered dynamic you've described isn't just isolated to cultural issues, but infects material economic reality?
Very good video, as always. Very direct and truthful while being kind and even handed.
I really appreciate your knowledge and overall understanding or at least the attempt to understand people as just people. I’m so glad I found your channel. Thank you so much!!
Thank you for covering this topic
This was cathartic!
But also… this is kind of programmed to go in a certain way… I mean they choose the nicest girls and the most aswhole guys they can find. Extrapolating this is kind of broken because it’s designed to be like this.
You are absolutely brilliant and so on point.
Love your videos.
This episode in particular fire ☄️🔥
Thought the comments were very very interesting under the original "attractiveness" video
for me it's a mind over matter thing. i know i'm not the most conventionally attractive but i surround myself with people who lift me up and boost my confidence. it makes living as a woman just a bit easier when im inundated with stuff meant to tear women down. i don't see whats so bad about it?
Most people want partners though and it doesn't help a lot of our physical attributes are out of control and it plays a heavy part on attraction.
I found you recently and liked a couple of your other videos because you articulate things that I can't quite put my finger on. However, this one has more self loathing than it does commentary.
Additionally, I would argue it's not a bad thing to question this "reality" mentioned in the video. It's not fake. It might be idealism but the "reality" we live under isn't fixed in stone. Trust me, I get where you're coming from wrt racial discrimination or being perceived as ugly in one way or another. This video leaves a lot to be desired in terms of commentary. I say this with kindness because I like your content.
queen of hunky dory sponsorships!!
13:52 exactly, the same people i see say these things about us, don’t associate with not one black person and don’t date any black people and normally, sticks to their own spaces, which is fine but don’t say you’re about something and your actions/ the way you treat people speak differently. Its like men/ women who complain “guys aren’t this or women aren’t that” yes the ones you CHOOSE to CHOOSE because the ones who aren’t like that don’t match the aesthetic of what you find attractive. Be real
I do think it’s worth saying that the ranking of the men isn’t law. I would argue that aside from maybe the woman ranked last, all the women there are conventionally attractive and that how they’re placed is largely based on personal preferences.
Accuse me of virtue signaling, but I don’t think the Black woman is the second-least attractive woman here. That could be my own personal bias, but that’s my point. I suspect a different racial or cultural makeup would yield different results. Maybe other panels are more racially diverse or at least aren’t all majority White.
And maybe that’s part of your point. That the women don’t take into account societal bias when ranking themselves. But I think we need to make a distinction between objective beauty and societal bias.
I think if the women ranked themselves based on objective beauty, their ranking would still look different because women are attracted to different features than men. The tallest woman would still be ranked the highest because women find height to be attractive. For a long time, a woman’s height has been seen as attractive. It’s why models tend to be tall.
Men tend to be attracted to women they see as feminine. Petite and Asian women tend to be seen as most feminine, while height and dark skin are seen as masculine. And the only thing worse than being masculine is being fat. Hence the way the women are arranged by the men here.
This is really interesting 🤩
I think that people usually don’t understand the medium… it takes a while for them to. The medium between honesty and niceness. The medium between masculinity and femininity. I think as a gay man I understand the balance between these energies. That could be an ego thing but I do value balancing these energies. Btw I know you say you don’t trust anyone saying you’re beautiful. However, I’m sure as you know attractiveness does not have to be entirely physical. Your soul is incredibly attractive and tbh you’re very beautiful.
this was a banger
Arguably the best and most honest video i have seen in a while. Well done. 👏 U have a new subscriber. 👍
I have a hypothesis about why women in general act like that. We have been socialized to care about how everyone around us feel, because in the past the consequences of hurting or bothering people around us were very harsh to us and not that harsh to men, so women adopted a strategy for socialization based on agreability. Me personally, I'm very honest, and I get some degree of backlash from friends who are women because of it, but eeeverytime, after some days or when the environment responds positively to my personality, those same women friends compliment me on my honesty. Another thing is that, because of how I am, some men have felt comfortable showing their true, selfish and douchbaggy selves to me, and well, they are terrible people, and I have ended those friendships after them not being able to see the flaws in their personality. I think that is why men who only have male friends are so socially behind and feel like society should change for them to be able to have sex and do other things that kinder, smarter men can do.
the philosopher is back....👌
I want to start that the premise of the videos ranking attractiveness if the people participating relly thought attractiveness is subjective and everyone is attractive in their own way, why would they even participate in this? Second: I think Kidology and other people confuse some terms. "Political correctness" to equate those that say that attractiveness depends on more than physical attributes and that everyone is attractive in their own way. The thing is, that is that is the reality. For example, the reality is that some men find fat women attractive, or that they are attractive regardless of their fat in their body. That doesn't mean it is the opinion of the majority. An opinion held by a majority (i.e.:"fat people are unattractive") doesn't make it "objective reality". Attractiveness is not objective with maybe very few exceptions (symmetry, proportions, smells...). Attractiveness has a very important cultural component. This is why in my opinion the women are not being politicallly correct, nor the men are being more objective. I agree that the women try to control how others feel and men care less, but I think women are more self aware of the subjectivity of attractiveness whereas men are less so.
It's been a while since I've watched one of your videos. I'm not sure why I haven't really been seeing them. I'm glad to know i have a backlog to catch up on.
Great video
This is an interesting comparison
Great job. Makes me wanna make more videos, thank you
Great video, but I think there's a point missing from your analysis of how the women rank themselves: people's obsession with taking confident women "down a notch."
18:40 Kidology said Men are more honest , but it is all about themselves it is not about anybody else. This got me thinking is this really true. On the surface this seems correct (especially seeing the attractiveness ranking example). My view is this is not true. Women I think are not so much concerned about others, rather they are keen to avoid conflict and social disorder. Their emphasis is on social cohesion Typically I think women are extraordinarily selfless when it comes to looking after children, and men are extraordinarily selfless when looking after their families. The current malaise of society is that no one is selfless when it comes to looking after men, so when men suffer no one cares in the least, including other men.
Yasslighting
Well put!
Thanks for another interesting video. Really enjoyed it.
I liked hearing your take on this and I agree that people should be more honest but be respectful about it.
I think though that this rating attractiveness is the wrong way to go.
This is a kind of currency, and people are trying to access their own worth and other peoples, but this is a worthless currency. Someone won't always like the most attractive person, but they might be convinced to get them becuz they are deemed the most valuable. This leads people to seek the wrong partners and not appreciate them.
So I think its a good philosophy to not care what anyone else thinks, man or woman.
This is one of those issues tho, that I don't know if it can ever be solved .
Thank you for your videos Kidology! They really help me evaluate the way I think :)
I’m wondering: Is this a generational thing? I’m middle aged (46) and it would never occur to me to engage in ranking attractiveness with myself and a group of my friends. It seems like a Gen Z social media stunt. Why else would people do such a bizarre activity? Or is it a personality thing? As an introverted engineer/analyst, I have always competed in terms of ability/achievement and my appearance didn’t factor into the equation. 😮 Wait, have other women been secretly comparing and ranking me in their minds for 46 years and I’m only just finding out about it now?
There's nothign selfless about spinning a web of social relations where you come out on top.
I think you make great points, but I wouldn't say so decisively that the men were absolutely objective vs the women avoiding objectivity. We have to keep in mind that these are straight women ranking each other (how could they rank on attractiveness when they have never felt attraction towards women?) while on the other side, we only have straight men ranking women (can't definitely say lesbians would have the same ranking). What I'm getting at is I do believe men and women have different attractiveness criteria that influence how they approach this. To explore this idea, I'd love to see your take on reality dating shows because to me, it's obvious how men will all subconsciously collectively decide who the hottest woman is and ALL hit on her while the women seem to have a higher variance on who they personally find most attractive. Maybe even compare straight vs queer shows.
I have my doubts that men are really THAT honest. If you wanted a true approximation to honesty, you'd make the participants anonymous as to rule out pressure from how their peers will perceive their preferences. But I mean, I suppose Jubilee typically is more interested in what the consensus of a particular demographic is, so it's on brand.
I'm torn because from what I understand, when people refer to "objective beauty", they typically are trying to make it measurable, by looking at facial harmony, citing studies, etc. But I think it's hard to divorce external pressures such as beauty standards, stereotypes, classism, etc. from this so-called "objective beauty". Does that qualify as chill and objective, or are these external factors skewing the results? Idk, I'm going back to my homework
When you said men and women complement each other with how their thinking differs and if they worked together, they'd work pretty efficiently(or so you implied)
Is pretty spot on. But men want to dominate and control women which makes women react in a particular way and now we have this. If we could just work together, things would be way better.
A friend of many years recently blocked me for allegedly being an incel because I was in an online argument challenging the emphatic declaration that women don't care about looks. My position was that women DO care about looks IN TANDEM with non-visual considerations but I was attacked for ignoring what women were telling me. What was SMH about all this was how reflexively multiple women just blanketly refuted the position--like a memo they all received and were taught to learn--and labeled me an Incel rather than list ANY personal preferences in physically attractive qualities in men. They just pretended like the very idea of preferring looks was an invention of mine.
I chalk it up to Second Wave Feminism's late-stage (1970s) argument that femininity was the mirror opposite of masculinity and that women's libidos have no overlap with male ones (EX: men are turned on by visuals, so women are overtly NOT; men like meat, so women are naturally vegetarian, etc.). The lurid extremism of that period still lingers because it gives a reflexive pride in being a woman, and therefore, somewhat more enlightened than men.
It's interesting you say this because we see the same thing coming from misogynists ("women are emotional, men are rational", "womens' interests are vapid, mens' are meaningful", etc). It's that "men are from mars and women are from venus" mentality which, if you actually interact with the opposite sex in the real world, is positively nonsense.
We are like Syamese Twins fighting eachoter 🙈
Don't worry you don't have to be black or a lesbian to get nice remarks about you while also being rejected, it's universal for the most part.
The Asian woman coming first is the least shocking thing, I've been messing around a lot with AI, and well, I have noticed that AI image-generation software clearly prefers Asian women.
Personally, I wouldn't want to put myself in Jubilee rankings, it doesn't really do anything other than make you feel crappy and out of place but at the same time getting mad at them is like getting mad when the best game or film of the year is in the red on Metacritic, "well far as I'm concerned both the critics and people are wrong" so while I totally think there's some degree of understandable attractiveness in terms of just looking healthy I kinda just think the rest of it is down to culture, ok, so maybe darker skin is seen as masculine and Asians look more like children so that does go some way to explaining the men's rankings.
Not sure where that lies when it comes to being a douchebag VS just being honest, I'm just trying to be as scientific as possible.
It’s the years of social conditioning that impact why Asian women are fetishized and infantilized and dark skin people are masculinized. There’s no scientific reasons or evidence for these phenomenons…they’re just due to eugenics.
Considering who is mostly creating the foundation for AI technology it’s unsurprising that it prefers one particular race
@@zzraven777 Yep.
stop the cap, white women will always be the standard of beauty
@@LoneWulf278 It's actually quite strange, it doesn't do it for men but for women it does tend to make them all look slightly Asian, and I don't think it's down to AI tech being made in the Asian market, I did a search on the most popular Lora's
I've been watching your videos for a long time, and you always bring new things to the conversation. I am very grateful for that. I have to say, however, I'm disappointed that you didn't mention the main reason why women act like this - women's objectification. For years, women didn't have anything other than their looks. Of course, now it's different. Women objectify men as much as men did it to women. It's still different just because of our history. All those years, men were seeing women as objects, even living incubators. All those times i've heard men talking about us in a way that made my throat clench. That's why when women were ranking themselves in a "politically appropriate" way, it's just a defense mechanism. I know it's wrong in many ways. But you articulated your thoughts in a way it made me think you feel better than the women from those videos. It's not wrong to feel that way, but I've always thought that because we're women - we're in this together. Beauty standards are very harsh and not attainable for all women. Since i was young, I've always wanted to protect other women. And if it means I will bring women I know men will put lower higher - I will do it. I don't think it's wrong to do this. Some people might say it's not sincere. I undersand, but do not agree. Some women have enough hard time with men, so if i can make them feel a little special by ranking them higher - again, I will do it.
I'm sorry if my english is not particularly good, but it's not my first language.
I agree with what you're saying, but I think I also see her side. I would also like to think women are in it together. But the older I've gotten, I realize that's not necessarily the case. Some women use their proximity to men of power over other women. And they don't think twice while doing it. Think of the pick me's, tradwives, all other online nonsense with "kept" women. As long as THEY are picked and kept and taken care of by men, other women don't matter.
@@diandriasmith889 thank you for your opinion! i totally agree
@@_._kate_._I always support women especially older receive alot of hate I remind they are important and are beautiful
17:33 - People getting their looks rank-ordered online is a silly idea to begin with. Begs conflict.
I think that its good to be honest but I often feel that when people don't have great communication skills for that. There is always a better way to be honest about things. Such as my friends fiance who loves to publicly shame her and his daughter about their weight. Then when I confronted him about it he said he is just being honest...though I gave him other ways to help their weight journey like leading as a role model and doing fun workouts he just told me it was a private issue and he was just being honest. But I don't think yelling to them to put the chips down because they'll get fat or grab their fat while lecturing them in front of people makes people feel motivated nor is it very private.
sounds more like abuse
18:58 It’s still about them because they are concerned about how they’ll appear to both the other women and the internet as a whole.
It's the same thing as parents and school districts. On a societal level, you have your desires for how things are organized, and want every child to have equal opportunity, and schools to be diverse. As a parent of your kid in the context of current reality though, you'll take every advantage you can to get your kid into the best school you can find, and then protect their school from change.
The women rated each other the way people talk about schools from a policy perspective. The men did so as a parent talks about their kid's school.
[Identity politics isn't about morality but about ourselves.]
Naturally. Morality is a personal endeavor because "good" on a collectvie level is necessarily a matter of consensus. The most brutal travesties can accrue enormous social credibility. it's all a contest. Even when it's pointed out what a sham it is, it only shakes things up for a week or so and then it's back to peddling one's humility for gain.
As much as any sensible person has distaste for this, it isn't the fault of social system but their nature. The state cannot decide for you what is right and wrong. Only what is favorable or disfavorable. (Although it will call what it favors "right.")
There are no moral societies because the collective cannot discriminate -- and I mean that in the most literal sense of not being able to tell one thing from another. The individual discerns where the collective can only act.
This failure to "face facts" is actually an adaptation that gives socities the moral laterall clearance tey need to operate: how are these women supposed to rank order themselves in terms of attractiveness? Honestly breaks the rules of social conduct. Falsehood also breaks the implicit rules of social conduct because if they don't make a choice the showw can't go on. So they do this obviously contradictory thing and call forth a myth: "It's alright if you get put in last; it means you're more humble than I am. I'm arrogant. I'm the bad one. I deserve to be considered the most attractive here. Punish me. We're all so co-operative and have such solidatiry that we can arrange ourselves thus without fighting about it and not take offense at the obvious disparity between each other. We personally didn't arrange ourselves anyway. it was all intuition! And I'm sorry to say that my bad intuition thinks I'm more attractice than you."
Myth is like the cure found in the disease: the paradox that cures contradiction. It's not avoiding reality because if these women had been honest with each other, they wouldn't be able to cooperate. But the myth allows them to form a unity even though it's an unfair one. Just like the myth that America is a meritocracy. It's a myth that let's the rich steal from the poor as though the poor deserved it. But at least there isn't an interminable condition of anarchy where the country fails to opperate as a cohesive social unit. At least the class warfare isn't literal violence, which is what ensues when a socially sustiaining myth breaks down and itsn't albet to serve it's purpose of smoothing away contradictions of the kind shown in the video.
It has the apperance, to the outside observer, of this surreal double think, but it's actually a highly adapted form of ignorance that deals with reality in the most pragmatic manner, ignorance though it may be.
The fact that we have myths shows that we _can't_ deal with reality. A person who deals with reality is a pariah because no society and survive either in the presence of naked paradox without a myth covering it up.
We can confront reality privately, as people, and make of them what we can in our personal lives but not as parts of social entites: not as our personae.
Much of the problem, I think, with politics, why it's so stuck in the mud all the time and nothing is acheived, is that the average person never understands what they are asking for because they never realize they are dealing with myths and that myths are not a symptom of barberous irrationality but actually a very high order of civilization. So much so that it's stifling. So if you get rid of the myth, you don't get a better society but rather a society that can't function. Just like if you removed all of the swallows from a farm ecosystem, instead of getting a more bountiful crop, all your food gets eaten by locusts. Because you didn't understand that you have to reckon with the ecology. Myth is the ecology of civilization. Some social myths may be part of a religion, but by far and away the majority of social myths are purely secular. Religions that accounted for this, like Christianity, spread very far. Religions that don't tend tobe landlocked to a particular geographical area, like Hinduism.
So beware of critisizing myths because you're not clever for doing it. Hidious and an affront to the intellect that they are, like the sight of a grown adult who believes in Santa Claus, they are highly important social rituals.
That all said, the project before us then isn't to expose contradictions -- if we could handle those, our societies wouldn't have problems -- but to devise better myths. More equaitable myths. Or perhaps working around existing myths to change real conditiosn such that the myth is no longer necessary. In doing so we can can perserve the harmony and function of the social ecology.
this was mindblowing, again! please let me know where i can read more about such topics 🙏
I agree with everything bit one thing, the idea that the women are genuinely considering others before themselves. In reality, what is happening is social manipulation. By artificially pumping up the other women, the women are increasing the likelihood that the others see them in a better light (i.e., the halo effect). Through this manipulation of others' perception of them, the women are all covertly actively trying to "be the best" while ensuring that their enemies have nothing of substance to complain about when they fall short. I honestly think the women's side of this analysis is far more Machiavellian than it seems.
I feel for my black brothers and sisters when it comes to dating. And I know there were some guys who said they would date a black woman but it's usually a Zendaya or Beyonce looking woman, not the average looking black woman. Wish there was more people like my brother who is down with dating black women that appeared on Jubilee but a lot of men are not down with that.
I think this is a very online perspective. Most stats show approx 85% black men who are married to black wives, and 90+% of black women married to black men. No chance even a large portion of these women look like Beyonce. Overwhelmingly, black men do prefer black women. The issue I'd say is that not enough black people are getting married overall and having a family. Too many of us are having kids out of wedlock and creating dysfunctional settings for children. That I see as a real issue as opposed to a mostly online debate about colorism. Reality doesn't really reflect this especially when you go into heavily black areas and see all types of black people in relationships of all different skin tones. I think people just see who celebrities date, apply that to the whole population and run with it, but celebrities live in their own world and interact with a completely different demographic of people.
The black guys that are desired are ugly v muscular and tall not the average black guy so I don’t think they have it much better than the world in my experience.