What’s happened to stand-up comedy?
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2024
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 The Netflix Comedy Special
9:20 What's the point of modern stand-up?
20:13 The "punching down" paradox
25:39 Victims
27:07 The "horrible" internet vs. the comedian
30:00 Comedians as dehumanised and dehumanisers
32:13 The hopelessness message of modern stand-up
36:30 Is a joke real life? | Social media's impact on reality and stand-up
39:06 Nobody needs to be funny anymore
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FAQ
Q: Why do you pronounce "women" the same as "woman"?
A: I am South African with a particular Queen's English/south of England tinge to my accent. Please be understanding, respectful and don't send me emails or leave comments about this. Thank you :)
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SOURCES
inews.co.uk/culture/netflix-c...
www.rollingstone.com/culture/...
www.bbc.com/culture/article/2...
www.nytimes.com/2023/11/15/ar...
www.nytimes.com/2023/06/01/op...
www.vulture.com/article/edgy-...
thecritic.co.uk/boremageddon/
coveteur.com/defensiveness-in....
thecritic.co.uk/you-can-criti...
www.telegraph.co.uk/comedy/wh...
MEDIA SOURCES
• Rife For Cancellation ...
• "You're Either A Free ...
• Matt Rife On Why He'll...
• "My Mom Got Shot In Th...
• The holocaust vs 9/11
• The Rise of Matt Rife ...
#mattrife #rickygervais #davechappelle #standupcomedian #trevornoah #armageddon #thedreamer #kidology 
Развлечения
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Hey Kid, keep it up. Love your content!
Great coverage! Thank you for continuing to share our mission Kidology!
If anyone's interested in getting the full picture of issues like the one in this video, check out the link in the description and let us know if you have any questions.
Love your content. An idea for a video - passport bros - came across it on reddit
No offense Kid, but this video was a little bit dogshit. I decided to unsubscribe. Of course, comedians are gonna try to make jokes about social phenomena. It's not contrived, it's organic. As for them "punching down" or criticizing people that are trying to cancel them because of anti-woke jokes, that is totally justified. I watched the whole video and it felt like you were saying nothing most of the time. Thank God for the 2x speed feature.
If cancel culture is ruining comedy, it's because all comedians want to do is complain about cancel culture instead of telling jokes.
Simple as that really! 😂
THANK YOU
No, they don't want to get crucified for telling the wrong jokes.
@@wakkablockablaw6025most of these “edgy comedians” who were “cancelled” are still making bank, getting Netflix deals and selling out tickets .
None of them are being crucified. They aren’t even held accountable when it’s necessary.
They’re too rich and comfortable to think anymore, so they just complain
cute cope
"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying"
I feel like this quote by Terry Pratchett applies to the whole Matt Rife situation very well.
I would actually disagree, I really have little interest in Rife but satire shouldn't be something that needs to
A even be good or well done
B punch up
Satire gets thrown around as an excuse for being a dick a lot but the core point of satire is to mock something in a very certain way.
Not a stand-up example but I think Austin Powers and it's sequel works as a way to demonstrate how satire and parody differ.
Austin Powers 1 makes fun of 60's James Bond by placing him in a modern context "At that point of the 90's", many of the jokes are aimed at how stupid he comes across when removed from his time.
The sequel instead is set in the '60s and is more of a parody, rather than having Powers look ridiculous they instead play up every element.
In 1 Powers assaults an elderly woman because he thinks she's a man in a wig, most people find him strange and unappealing and the humor is aimed at satirizing the idea of Bond
In 2 Powers is attacked by a dwarf disguised as a baby, every woman throws herself at him and it's aimed at playing up the idea of bond to a insane degree
The same can be said for the villains.
in 1 the main henchman throws his shoes, which people just find mildly irritating, in 2 the main henchman is an obese Scottish man who eats babies and kills people with poisonous bagpipes.
Showing something as ineffective via mockery vs playing something up for parody.
@joebrookesPatch You all miss the point of matt rife, he literally did a bill burr bit verbatim, to then break away from his parasitic tik tok audience who were trying to dictate his comedy. People who likes Matt rife before the joke vs after the joke weren't comedy fans, they wanted a funny stripper.
@@Godfailedyoustophumpinghisleg I'm not talking about Rife, I've hardly seen him, I'm just saying that Satire doesn't need to be likeable, it just needs to mock something in a certain way.
@@joebrookesPatch I was agreeing with you but okay
@@joebrookesPatch Yes it is satire, but the point of the satire is more prolific in regards to his want to be an artist and practice his craft how he sees fit, not just about the joke, but the why of the joke, context is important
A lot of comedy I have traditionally liked was made by people just talking about subjects they were most familiar with. They were telling jokes about people and things they deeply understood, so you understood the joke wasn’t meant to denigrate or demean. As a Southern person, I never felt like Jeff Foxworthy was making fun of me or my neighbors because he was telling it from a perspective of being one of us. A lot of times now it feels like these comedians are trying to just talk about hot button topics, but because it’s things they don’t understand the jokes just don’t land. You can’t tell a joke about something you don’t understand, because a big part of telling a joke comes from that understanding, especially of the absurdity of the subject matter.
I agree, and as a New Yorker, this is also what made Seinfeld so funny. Jerry Seinfeld & Larry David both captured the hilarious self-absorption and quick (often mistaken) judgments that come from living in a city of millions
Very true. That was a huge criticism of Dave Chapelle, the fact that he doesn't understand trans issues and thus his jokes were at the very least not based in reailty and thus failed to hit. Being controversial used to mean saying the quiet part out loud, now it's just being openly ignorant about highly politicized topics.
Your comment was an excellent observation. Also well said. 🙏
I don't think i agree. You don't need to blunderstand NFTs or Teslas 9r whatever, to make fun of it. You just have to be able to point out faults
TBF _wink_ Look at Ricky's younger pictures. He apparently was into David Bowie a bit.
Punching down at disabled people and saying it's alright because it's a joke is literally, "It's just a prank, bro," with the very real harm that idiots will think it's okay to punch down _and not even as a joke._
Not the same at all, a prank is an action whereas a joke is words. There’s no action there and there’s no call to action, simply just a statement. Complete false equivalence
words form culture, which in turn motivates action. Jokes are never harmless if they form and inform other people's opinion
It would be the same for other medias like news and essays, if they don't have a standard, they may cause misinformation and even bigotry! Never underestimate the power of words
Except news and essays aren't jokes. The point of a joke is its not to be taken seriously. @@GustavoIto
What you're speaking about at the end has been dubbed "clapter" (which is a portmanteau of clapping and laughter ). Where instead of the audience laughing when they find something funny, they break out clapping when they agree with the point the comedian is making. As you said, instead of telling jokes, they just say things that will resonate with their audience and prompt an applause of consensus rather than a laugh.
I have noticed that. They just aren’t funny. Nobody laughs. They whoop and clap. The jokes are the same old shit. These comedians have self pitying monologues, putting themselves up as martyrs, and attack vulnerable groups. Is there a second coming of Andrew Dice Clay?
Man that’s so prevalent in this day with comedy it’s so painful…
I love this lol where did you reference this from?
listen to bill maher's audience clapping like horny seals. and if bill doesn't get an applause for a point of view, he literally asks the audience why there's no reaction.
Interesting.
I think Josh Johnson is a fantastic modern comedian. His style is laid back, kind of self-deprecating, and observational. He talks a lot about recent news headlines and making humorous observations that I would never have thought to make. He makes bizarre and unexpected connections and that's what makes me laugh.
He's my current favorite.
he is amazing indeed
100%. He’s nuanced without any need to be blue. Just real. Love Josh.
Matt Rife complaing about people being rude is ironic
God that early clip of Matt Rife putting down youngsters was such blatant, pathetic pandering.
Serious though, young people are dumb af these days. This channel is example of that. She actually said mar-tire and thought she was being clever 😂😂😂
ESPECIALLY since the audience (of I'm assuming older people) were hollering whenever Rife would say how much he hates young people. We get it Dave and Debra, your kids don't talk to you, maybe there's a reason why.
Gonna get on my armchair psychologist soapbox and say part of it is related to the anti-intellectualism movement. People aren’t allowed to have nuance, social media primes people to look for the next hit of dopamine, comedy bits and skits that require thought are “boring” thus you move onto the next clip that makes you feel good without too much effort. That’s how “comedians” like Matt Rife get propped up while realistically standing for rather shallow views.
I'm giving an upvote, because anti-intellectualism is such a GREAT term! We should use that word for pop culture as we just debate in circles.
"woman no hot so go to kitchen but no cook so abuse😂"
@@magical-soap5359 shut up nerd! 💥smack!💥 🤓 (that's a pop culture example anti-intellectualism..it's been around for eras)
Do you think there is some merit to the anti-intellectualism? Maybe that the intellectual world has widely regressed over the last 40 years and a lot of "intellectuals" nowadays are imperious people, who maybe know how to sound kind of smart, without much substance behind it? I would say this video is actually a prime example of this.
@@rogerx1258 Youin the comments sharing your shallow thoughts, so no anti-intellectualism isn't merited. The answer to bad faith "intellectuals" is finding people whose arguments you can respect, people who can think and argue respectfully. Not joining the anti-intellectualism crowd. You are smart you should know better. 🙄
males finding out their lockerroom/barbershop talk are actually not funny is comedy gold. like just cuz the collective of males can comfortably laugh at male r4p3 "jokes," they think women should laugh at violence against our gender too.
Those jokes are a sign of deep fear and insecurity.
@toomuchinformation what do you mean by fear and insecurity
@@modernphilosopher1268 male rape jokes are a sign of deep fear and insecurity amongst men.
@@toomuchinformation why do you say that?
@@toomuchinformation
Sure 😂😂
Matt Rife saying "im not like other... Boys" 😅 basically
When he's JUST LIKE the literal majority of XYs...
Which is heart breaking that this is the reality (toxic/dangerous males, not Matt being a leading figure of the POS epidemic 💀🤮😅)
Wait until I show Matt rife my mother's 1970s astrology book collection and her gigantic crystal cabinet that she keeps is a 64-year-old woman that will blow his f****** mind. Then I'm going to show him my dad's astrology book from the '70s that he used to pick up chicks because if men these days were smart they'd come in knowing their natal chart and be able to leverage that for dates and shit.
I've been WAITING for someone to do a deep dive into this topic. So glad to see our queen delivering
dead domain also has videos on this. they’ve done stand up comedy and they’re trans so they’ve got some fun insight
But she did a bad job?
It's not a deep dive, but A dose of Buckley recently did a video talking about this.
Their trans their trans their trans, what is your generations obsession of men in dresses, you talk about trans more in a month than the last 100,000 years of human history, get some real problems instead of your made up 1st world problems.@@babs_babs
@@babs_babs
This is the third analysis on comedy I've come across in the last week. James Woodall put one out about 3 weeks ago and that sparked the algos to recommend Wisecracks video and it lead to this. So I think it's about time that someone looks into this because comedians doesn't seem to know enough to reflect about it.
Right now, I feel like a lot of "edgy" comedians can't handle criticism. I'm convinced that their parents and everyone around them never said no or criticized them. Remember when comedians kept insisting for years that all millennials' parents told them that they were "special" and praised them for the bare minimum? Maybe that was projection, because I've never seen anyone more sensitive to criticism than these "edgy" comedians. It would explain why any time they get criticized or aren't laughed at, they immediately blame "society" for not understanding them or for being "butthurt", because they think, "There's no way that it's my fault. I'm super smart and funny! I never make mistakes or have bad jokes." Imagine if us regular folk immediately blamed everyone else every time we told a joke that no one laughed at?
There are better ways to handle criticism or a dead audience in a mature way. Jo Koy got criticized for his cringy jokes that he told during the Golden Globes monologue a few days ago, and what did he do? Did he call the audience "overly sensitive"? Did he rant about "wokeism"? Did he play the victim by crying about being "cancelled"? Did he paint himself as a "hero" for "fighting against political correctness"? Nope. He admitted that his jokes were flat and handled the situation with grace, like a level headed adult should. Why? Because he's not a narcissist like Dave Chappelle, Bill Burr, Matt Rife, or Ricky Gervais.
Literally, I tried asking someone where is the line drawn between critical feedback versus "hate" (I was criticizing Matt Rife and his defenders) but no one responded! Because as you said if you get poor feedback for your jokes but then blame everyone for being the problem, that is uncool. That's being immature if someone can't distinguish hate from criticism, because THERE IS A LINE. Not everything is just mindless hate.
I don't want to generalize to literally all comedians within the "edgy" category, but yeah, a lot of them seem remarkably sensitive for being in a profession that requires an incredibly thick skin.
i feel like the instagram post about the "hurt feelings helmet" (if this is the Matt Rife response your refering to) is a response to the comedians that HAVE apologized for their jokes. Because sadly what ends up happening is that the people criticizing the comedian just start asking for More and MORE apologises all the while....they weren't even fans of them to begin with.
like be honest, had you heard of Matt rife or heard his standup prior to his controversy?? bc i have and that DM joke was very in line with his existing comedy.
The people criticizing don't buy tickets. It actually hurts a comedians pocket book to accept criticism. The OG fans become angry at the comedian bc they fell into "woke pressure" and they abandon the comedian. Look at how Bill Burr is "a pussy bc he married a feminist black woman (Nia Hill)" and hes left the comedy scene almost altogether to do film. Patton Oswald is seen as a cuck and he left the comedy scene as well. It's not within a comedians best interest to apologize or have any introspection. It only makes them more popular to reject criticism bc look at all the podcasts he was featured on in this video! Kid is talking about him when she never wouldve before!
You just have to deal with comedians that you don't agree with.
@@X3nophiliac If you are replying to me then I'll tell you the reasons why I dislike Matt Rife is mostly outside his comedy, it's the way he treats people. For example he cheated on his ex girlfriend Brooke while she defended him from haters then blocked her when she found out then he pretends they never dated. He talks down about women, specifically their vaginas. He tweeted slurs which we as a culture should have left behind 100 years ago. As an individual he seems gross and generally disrespectful. Again, what he does for shock isn't new but it's trendy.
@@X3nophiliac Also, why would an entertainer make their craft about the culture war but not back up their ideas and opinions without enough introspection? That would not be witty or clever.
It's like these comedians lack the creativity to find funny subjects outside the controversial
YES!
i think its more that their sense of humor is shock value jokes about controversial subjects. it doesnt need to appeal to everyone. tho its strange he wants an older audience when i think controversial jokes mostly lean towards young men..? we'll see how he grows, or if at all
@@KidologyCO It's a feedback loop, it's not like jokes about 9/11 and the holocaust aren't controversial and I will still hold up Sticks and Stone as a solid return for Dave Chappelle, it's more that he is unwilling to move beyond his status as controversial to the point that it's almost all he talks about.
Hey Dave, just because people said some of your jokes are transphobic doesn't mean you have to dedicate a whole hour to talking about it, stop being a RUclips response video.
@joebrookesPatch Dave has always been controversial that why he blew up the way he did after Chappell show. It's people who were offended at his jokes about the alphabets that contributed to this hysteria.
It's more like people like you lack a sense of humor and find funny subjects "controversial" . There I fixed it for you
Couldn't agree more. I think Shane Gillis is a great modern example of nuanced comedy. He mixes his punches so well. Every time you think he's leaning one direction, he flips it and makes a dig from the other side. It's subtle and it makes you feel like he's a buddy joking around. Truly rare nowadays
Shane is great
I think Louis C.K. has been great at this as well. He’s really stayed in his lane and continued to deliver high-level observational comedy. I’m actually surprised he didn’t fall into the “they tried to cancel me” category and turn his special into a shock-based performance around that issue. He makes a few jokes about it in his specials, and he carries on to other substantive jokes.
Shane is one of the funniest guys out there, and the breadth of his content is super impressive in terms of traditionally controversial subject matter. As you suggest, he's very nimble and agile, seemingly without much effort too.
And he doesn’t hate women and the gays 💖we love
Totally agree. Louie's also always been great at using comedy to get audiences to re-examine their commonly held beliefs, a la George Carlin. Louie's bits on homelessness, language, pedophilia, racism, masculinity, etc... never fail to make me laugh and think.@@stephenobisanya
I think it‘s sad that there is so much focus on the edgy male comedian when there are funny comedians but they just don‘t get enough attention (I think mostly bc their material ISN‘T political or politically dominated). I cried laughing to Matteo Lanes stand-up, I’m howling to Jessicas audience interactions as well as Gianmarco Soresi and I also loved Taylor Tomlinsons stuff (who has 2 Netflix specials btw). I like comedy that is about personal experiences and through those can make a political comment/observation. I don‘t want a comedian to tell me what to think I want them to observe society in a comedic way and then let me come to my own conclusion. Or let me be part of their thought process to understand their position. Instead of starting with the phrase „I hate young people“ Matt could have put some work in and told a personal experience to illustrate exactly WHY he hates them. Instead he went „I hate them because they‘re disrespectful.“ ok? and? It‘s a comedy of statements rather than of stories/observations.
What you wrote is a pretty smart conclusion, thanks for this!
Love Taylor Tomlinson! She’s a good example of talking about what she knows deeply and then building rapport with the audience to laugh at the thing together. My biggest gripe with these guys is that when they punch down at a group, it’s based on a false presumed premise, so I’m taken out of it and the rest of the “joke.” Their fans find it funny because they’re ignorant of the true nature of that group, so they can stay engaged. No, Dave, trans women don’t just cut off their dicks or enjoy the “privilege” of being the hot topic at the moment.
Yes. Love the comedians you listed. Also Zoltan Kaszas and Josh Johnson.
People saying 'NO, we dont condone that behavior anymore!' is considered 'cancel culture'. Nah, we just dont enable the grape and DV-culture anymore... bruh...
Well, it is a form of cancellation to demand censorship and removal of content. If people just chose to not watch or post negative reviews, you would have a point. If their comedy was as bad as you assume and everyone shares your values, as you assume, then they would fail as comedians. Which is how things used to work. Now, you have heavily woke-leaning entities controlling social media, effecting society's free-speech - that's why you have to type grape instead of the actual word that you meant to use. You may not agree with their material but they do have a valid point. If they do not cross any hate-crime law threshold, there should be no right to cancel them or censor their words.
even if jokes “arent real life” they still have real life influence. constantly degrading minorities in jokes leads to people subtly start rhinking less and less of them. for example, my dad went from “i just think trans women shouldnt be in womens sports” to ranting about trans people at any chance he gets
Comedy is a performance art. And so as an art form. It tends to reflect elements about underlying societal norms, fears, anxieties and cultural differences. One must be aware & not ignorant of that, in order to make “good” comedy
alternatively, they can be completely unaware and it can occasionally make for great comedy.
i have a deep appreciation for naive camp that i refuse to change
@@babs_babs honestly camp is top tier ironic exaggerative comedy. Slay
If you can tell me one funny, socially relevant joke I’d give you a million dollars
Pfft lol no
The divide between the ways in which 2 individuals may define “socially relevant” is vast
Chris Rock released a stand-up special last year ("Selective Outrage") and it was also a straight up identity crisis on stage. It sucked. There are so many things you could make a joke about yet these guys are so immersed in their own opinions and reactions to opinions that they don't even remember what an actual joke is anymore, it's like 90 minutes of overly-defensive middle-aged man ranting about their loss of the right to rant. Idk Matt Rife but another commenter said he looks like Big Mouth and I agree lmao.
It's interesting how the subject matter of stand-up is changing as we become more entrenched in social media. If I were a comedian I'd bring a mirror on the stage, turn it around to the audience and say "Look at what you're all becoming! The horror!" and then I'd turn the mirror back around and ogle my own appearance for the rest of the set, make the audience address me only as Narcissus. (I'm not a comedian so obviously this isn't funny but maybe Dave Chapelle could pull it off. That was also a joke.)
I do feel like this could be two videos though, one on the political crisis of the modern-day comedian (social/political analysis) and one of the identity crisis of the comedian in a greater sense relating to career trajectory/age/irrelevance (psychological analysis). Thanks for making this video nonetheless!
you should be a comedian that's actually quite funny
Thank you so much for this feedback and perspective(s). Very interesting and thought-provoking for me for awhile!
I think quite a few comedians use comedy as a coping strategy because they did have insecurities growing up. At least that is true for Chris Rock, who said he was bullied as a kid. So he started making jokes and probably gained some notoriety because others found him funny. So, I'm not surprised by the content of the comedy. It's always been a therapy session in one form or another.
This is my issue w Kat Williams and all the attention he’s getting. Like… it’s not funny? He’s enraged about things. Whether there’s validity there or not. If you’re just raging at everyone around you. Casting everyone else as a problem. Then a) you’re not really as happy or as successful as you’re claiming. And b) I don’t really want to share your rage with you. It’s exhausting at a time when EVERYONE seems to be raging at everything. It’s just not enjoyable for me. This new age of resentful outrage “comedy”.
That Katt Williams interview was the funniest thing I saw all last week. Lol
No one is cancelling comedians. Literally no one is banned from tv because of saying one thing offensive. It’s just a way for people like Gervais and Chapelle to market themselves. There’s no shortage of offensive humour, just the better comedians don’t go on and on about what truth-blazing mavericks they are.
Great video, I agree with most of it, altho I disagree that ‘all modern comedians have to pick a side’. The best ones just don’t bother picking a side. Check out Stewart Lee, my fav comedian at the moment, he doesn’t endlessly go on about being woke or anti-woke.
Gervais used to be great. Armageddon was legit embarrassing it was so bad.
Comedians saying it doesn’t matter cos it’s just a joke makes me think of the dad from that family prank channel who would traumatise his kids then say “It’s just a prank bro!”, who got convicted of child abuse
Except when you're on stage and telling jokes to a crowd as a comedian that makes thing up, that's completely different than traumatizing your own kids. If you don't think a comedian is funny just don't laugh
@@shaxarts but it’s still confirming and emboldening people’s prejudices. Did you watch the video?
@@KristofskiKabuki of course I didn't watch the video. If your prejudices get emboldened by a then ur dumb. Robin Williams used to punch down and make fun of different groups all the time and he was universally beloved. People are just too soft
@@shaxarts why are you commenting on a video that you haven't watched? It talks about how studies have shown that while prejudice jokes don't make people more prejudice it does make those who already have prejudice more bold with them and more likely to act on it.
If you watch the video we can have an actually conversation about what it says rather than me having to explain its points to you
it's an inevitable reaction to half a decade of media identity politics hysteria coming full circle to the point where we are even becoming tired of the comedic reactions to it.
This was a great breakdown. I hate feeling fractured as an individual when it comes to comedy, because so many comedians that were great are now written off as hacks and bigots in my peer groups. I share alot of " leftist" values and beliefs, but I also have a really morbid sense of humor and find it cathartic to laugh at taboos in culture as a coping mechanism or an ice breaker. Its now unacceptable to like or laugh at certain things, its unacceptable to not have a concrete opinion on a topic or remain neutral, its unacceptable to continue interacting with friends or family who hold alternate beliefs. Any leniency toward these things will result in ostricization from the group. But when I stand back most of it no longer exists the second I log out of social media and i realize we're all in a massive competition of performance in an attempt to curate our own image, or claim achievement and social hierarchy for being in the first wave of social progress in our respective ideological corners.
The great pissing contest has definitely dealt a huge blow to standup, but i think theres still hope that we can stop it from taking over our everyday lives. For me its been as simple as unplugging from the digital world. Unfortunately i dont think thats a viable solution for people who haven't lived in the analog age
The great irony. Shane Gillis, canceled Day 1 from SNL, has risen without constantly whinging about cancel culture.
It has seemingly become too much of a challenge to find common ground that includes the whole audience. Some suggestions:
1) alienation
2) loneliness
3) need for personal distinction
4) need to be valued
5) need to receive compassion
6) need to feel deserving
7) freedom from defamation
8) need to be understood
Singling out groups is exclusionary.
essentially identity and compassion.
That was a surprisingly constructive comment.
I was put off by this toxic sexist bs, but your response was better than the video.
@@mcr257sexist how?? Can you give some detail about this
that shit is all boring and not funny though
@@piscinaiv7937 unless you're smart. I mean, Voltaire made comedy out of intolerance, superstition, and annointed incompetence. It changed the world.
That Matt whatver his last name is, is just... weird. Like, he has all the features of a atractive guy, but is put togheter like a character from Big Mouth.
Yes!
Lmfao
At one point the woke side dominated and previously hilarious comics, like Sarah Silverman, joined in, becoming hectoring moralizers . One of the responses from the right was to accuse the Woke side of favoring comics based on their status as members of victim groups rather than on how funny they were. Now though, the Anti-Woke themselves thrive on their perceived victimhood at least as much as they accuse their opponents of doing. It also leads to them increasingly making their comedy ABOUT their comedy. Which rarely pays of. Of course comedy isn't off limits for comedy but when both the Woke and the anti-Woke do it , it isn't with an intent of getting the best laughs.
sarah silverman was hilarious?
@@TheMightyWalk she had her moment in pop culture somewhere during the late 2000’s I believe
You're adding way to into it. Comics don't need to play victims. They are just putting a mirror to the people they are joking about because said people are playing victim
Not really. The comics are playing victim. Constantly. Boo hoo, people don't think it's funny when I make hack jokes about how I think minorities are icky and weird
Exactly
Ι wanted to say a lot as I was listening to you, but you ended up saying everything I wanted to say, just more eloquently and clearly that I could ever hope to.
Criticism with compassion and patience is so rare, so thank you for this. Just discovered your channel, insta-subbed.
Liz Meile is a good comedian that does not run down this rabbit hole. She has funny and relatable stories from her life and an awesome cadence to her delivery.
As a disabled woman I can say that the community aren't against jokes at our expense when they ARE DONE WELL and like you said, when there are jokes about other identities all around to level the playing field. The issue is that none of these men do disabled jokes well at all, they just come off as derogatory and lazy.
i personally have only ever been able to see Daniel Sloss snd Dylan Moran do jokes about this in a funny way and i wasnt offended at what they said cause i myself agree the same way that i agree with what you said. Him and Dylan Moran.
There are ways to be funny without putting other people down, I think many comedians either forgot about it, or they don't know how to be funny without being mean at the same time
Idk I'm a part of this problem lol. I don't like comedians that make people feel awful, it's basically school bullying but for grownups
If you were bullied by people like this it makes sense. I was ....
@@susanrichardson631 yeah, me too
Yeah, same. There are ways to be edgy without being offensive. It just takes more thought and effort. Most of these “jokes” are an equivalent of bullying a kid, pushing them onto the ground, and responding “what? It was just a joke” when people did not laugh.
Nice video. I liked that you gave good examples with Noah
I'm glad that someone is giving Jessica the respect she deserves as the *right* kind of edgy comedian
Jessica is top tier!
Great video, comedians have always been a tricky topic to me but i appreciate this discussion and the ability to find the nuance and complexity of an otherwise seemingly superficial industry.
Also, hair is on point Kid! 😉
I’m an aspiring comedian and this was a very productive video… I learned a a lot! Thank you!
I definitely think that Ricky and Dave's trajectory is based upon the condemnation they get. While i do agree you should be able to joke about anything, it still fundamentally needs to be a good joke. Dave's Jim Carrey joke, for example, was excellent
Jordan Peterson isn’t a comedian but he is a joke
There are so many great comedians today but theyre all so small and barely any of them have specials, still its a super promising scene. Jordan Jensen, Aaron Webber and Shane Gillis come to mind as fantastic modern comedians but there are so many more.
I like Shane Gillis as a comedian but cannot stand him when he's doing anything else.
Bill Burr is a legend though.
Continue to find you so refreshing. Thank you for your thought
28:58 unfunny jokes don’t make money. This is so true because you can even blame marketing: comedy isn’t about confected needs, you laugh or don’t laugh.
I recall a feminist comedian blaming sexism for her lack of success, who then convincingly gave a performance as a man, and failed to make people laugh.
Just because someone is a feminist and woke doesn't make them funny nor does it make what they're doing good content and non toxic. Also completely off topic. You're comparing apples and oranges.
I think people are wildly misunderstanding Matt Rife's fame. Matt rife is always been a comedian who did edgier jokes. Misogynistic jokes etc. If you look at him on wild 'n out he did those kind of jokes. He blew up on TikTok because he got his teeth done and he started being more appealing to women. And his crowd work was really big. But his actual stand-up work was different. I think people who think this is a "left turn" for him are just misunderstanding who he is and where he came from.
He still shouldn't act surprised that people are upset that all his "comedy" is literally punching already vulnerable groups down. Like of course you will receive a ton of backlash no matter what the expectations of him were
@@anny_draws3023 The ones who shouldn't be surprised are the leftifts that another comedian is doing jokes they don't like, he has no right to get upset over stupid backlash but the people have the right to get upset over... jokes? Hmm
@@anny_draws3023he wasn’t upset, and he wasn’t surprised. No one is surprised when progressive identity cult fanatics cry about everything, it’s expected.
@@anny_draws3023 Can you weirdos prove any real world harm? No? Then fuck off.
@@Oscar08814who cares what the “leftist” think? 99% of them were never interested in his comedy anyways .
A thousand thumbs up, great video, a lot to think over 👍
subbed to you last night and you posted TODAY???!! love your stuff dude keep at it.
Thank you very much! I appreciate it :)
Is this your first video of 2024? If so, yay! And happy new year, Kid 🎉 ✨️
Happy New Year to you too! Thank you!
I think the take away is that if you have a microphone then you have power and you can either be responsible with that power or selfish with it, constructive or destructive. Are you constructing through deconstructing or just destroying through maintaining bad constructions.
That's not what comedy is tho. They don't have any moral responsibility. Neither does a beat boxer just cuz they have a mic
I don't know very well the anglosaxon stand-up comedy scene since I'm a spanish speaker. Though what I've noticed here in Spain is that monologues are less common and less enjoyable than they were, however improv and holding a dialogue with members of the audience as some sort of wit challenge for the comedian is were the fun seems to be now. The only one comedian you name I've ever seen anything of is Jessica, in youtube shorts, who does the later (interact a lot with her audience). I suppose this trend is also on the english speaking sphere, since many of the trends my country experience usually had started before in english speaking countries.
Girl I needed this video 💋✨️
Absolutely brilliant analysis ❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
The way you said “Amy Schumer” sounded like “A Mishima” and on that note I’ve closed this video to go play Tekken 8. Thank you.
GREAT VIDEO GIRL!!!!! 💖
I NEVER understand kidology's argument or point.
Bill Burr is not really in this category. He is very aware of the silliness of his arguments and pokes fun at them. The others " comedians" take themselves so seriously they have become angry old, young, and middle aged men.
I don’t think she’s watched enough of almost anyone she’s cited.
Aw, Bill Burr is my DUDE!
Trevor's standup about the trauma of his mom getting shot was hilarious and relatable to different people.
It's so weird that Matt Rife is shitting on his fans because he wants guys to like him. It's so sad and desperate to everyone but him. He's trying too hard. And those boyfriends attending his shows with their girlfriends aren't going to be fans of his, they'll just say he wasn't that bad, but he isn't converting them.
Good video about punching up and punching down. Like there is no foundation for many comedians for punching down. It's lazy without a why.
Trying too hard and not working hard enough. Like if his jokes were funny to both men and women, he'd actually, yunno, grow his audience and even out the demographics. Weird to be so proud of having abysmal retention.
Honestly, I just find him kind of unappealing, the irony with him is I also don't tend to care for young people, I just question what he's on about when he complains about crystals, dude you're a Peterson fanboy, have some perspective.
Thank you for bringing up Trevor because he makes jokes about different peoples lives and his own life but you know that he is well read and he knows what the fuck he's talking about. I watched his special the other day and I was like this man is out here making jokes well meaning intelligent jokes
OH MY GOD YESSSSSS I've been waiting for someone to talk about this
I love Jessica Kirson thanks for mentioning her
"The recent rise of edgy comedy".
There has ALWAYS been edgy comedy. George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Dennis Leary, Jerry Sadowich, Billy Connolly, Norm MacDonald, Stewart Lee...Too name but a few.
There has been no recent rise, it's always been there. It's just gets analysed to death these days by the folk that spend 80% of their day looking for something to offend them on Twitter.
Dave Chappell didn't just appear...He's been doing his thing for over 20 years, he's just mastered the craft and got better as he got older.
Gervais has been doing his schtick since the 90s too.
Before that, you had the "blue" comics like Bernard Manning, Kevin Bloody Wilson and Roy Chubby Brown, who were always controversial and overtly sexist and racist at times.
Before them, it was comics who poked fun at absurdity of the establishment who were controversial.
There is no recent rise or surge. It's always been there.
I didn’t think Trevor Noah was that funny, but that bit was pretty good. Fair play
Thanks so much for a great video.
Comedian's taking a stab at cancel culture is akin to trying to humble the movement, since much of it is driven by the ego. Truth be told its much needed in this day and age.
"Comedy is the art of making people laugh at the things they're not supposed to laugh at." - Patrice O Neal
Bingo
i've never understood this outrage over stand-up. like, am i the only one who doesn't watch it and therefore doesn't care? stand-up is overrated, people really are acting like it's the only way of humor
this reminded me how funny trevor was before he went to the US. I'm gonna go back to watch his specials now. he was so funny, even when in really bad taste like when we was talking about the marikana massacre. it upsets me to hear what he said, but I can't help but laugh when he said "it's for emphasis baba"
What United States of America does to a mfr? Maybe there is something wrong with it.
@@romkobomko3200 yeah. I mean he went and tried to fill unfillable shoes as well as had to switch his comedy from talking about a culture he was immersed and saw change in all his life to one that he wasn’t. Also I think the daily show even though it has its moments, does terribly fall victim to the concept of “clapter.” Also when he was working as an individual he had less restrictions on what he could say. The daily show must preserve an image, as well as has a specific audience so he can’t be as edgy.
And also you’re right, the US also is just awful. I moved there as well and every time you have a good day something comes to ruin it straight up. Things are bad in South Africa, but geez the people in the US are so ignorant to how despicable US society is. Especially it’s military foreign policy. It just gets so depressing after long, when everyday you hear someone say something about the world outside the US that is almost nazi like in a way that they will never understand. Once I get my degree in December it’s back to RSA🇿🇦🇿🇦
wow I find it hard to believe that he was ever good
Let’s gooo, this was a good and insightful take
As a young stand-up comedian, I think there is a huge change happening in the artorm (not inly in the everchanging landscape of what jokes are acceptable, but also with comedians pushing the boundaries of what it means to be a stand-up comedian and what a "special" should be and look like), and out of that change, we see a lot of standups afraid of this change or clinging to the old ways rather than accept it. Matt Rife is the most curious one to me because he had a real opportunity to be unique and greater than those who inspired him, but he chose to be the same. This was a great video!
Even comedy is being taken too seriously. If you don’t like someone, don’t watch him. Everyone is constantly running everything through their social justice filter. It’s an exhausting and miserable way to be.
Exactly this!!
The logical response to any form of criticism is to say "if you don't like it you don't have to engage with it" unless of course there's literally no possible way for them to disengage it. At the same time, it's important to uphold people's right to criticize/complain about something if they want to. If they have something to say, I think it's good to listen and engage with their ideas even if we don't agree with them.
@@gigachad3925 exactly my point. You can criticize an artist and i can criticize your criticism. But this project of “holding people accountable for punching down” for JOKES doesn’t serve anyone except people who have a strong need do demonstrate how morally superior they are.
@@dolores7589that’s the thing though. Absolutely no one is being “held accountable” . It’s not a real thing and it’s just a buzz word. The people that have been “held accountable” have lost nothing. They still have the same fans and the same bank account. They need to stfu and just ignore their detractors.
@@dolores7589this tale is downright accusatory and doesn’t leave room for critique/nuance, which is severely losing touch in this topic as Kid points out. It isn’t as simple as being morally superior
The identity complex is caused by the criticism of masculinity, the war on masculinity. Trying to save themselves would then be symbolic of saving masculinity. I think then punching down is a show of status and its nuances which we all feel, so it makes intrusive thoughts materialize and relatable. I think comedy like Trevor Noah goes on to evolve to moral superiority narratives, whereas edgy comedy goes on to show that we are all the same. Trevor Noah comedy says we are equal because we're living in a system, edgy jokes say we're equal because we're animals.
Your framing at the beginning is spot on. Stand up comedy has honestly taken on an almost religious function in the media landscape
great video- bravo! !!
This is why I miss the unwoke 1960s when we had obscenity laws and comedians were regularly jailed. So much better than other people having opinions.
Why do you get on every video under this creator and leave a sarcastic comment that undermines the purpose of exploring these topics. Are you that bored that you're subscribed to someone whose content you apparently don't like?
Did you even watch the video or are you just arguing with a woman who exists in your head?
Lmao😂
@@nuclearseahorsewhy do you complain about comedians making jokes about "marginalized groups".
@@yourarchnemesis8453 I don't, I only respond when other people complain about them NOT being "allowed" to, like you're doing rn
People are like oh it’s no longer funny to make fun of marginalized people well I’m gonna double down
"the male stand up comedian"??? ...that's a redundant term ..there are only male stand-up comedians
Been a fan of Chappelle's for 30 years and it's disappointing how he's gone down the road he has, to some degree. Some of it I can still get behind but some of it feels lazy; like your example with Trevor Noah, if you're going to go at a particular group or punch down in some way you need to be way more nuanced and educated to do it in a way that takes all the audience (including that group) with you.
Don't agree with your take on him and Lil Nas X. I don't think he was denigrating him particularly; more using him as an out-there type of personality. It was very similar to his use of Rick James back in the day (if you've never seen the Rick James sketch i suggest you do).
The thing with Dave that i think a lot of people don't get (and which i don't think he understands doesn't always come across) is that his stage persona is meant to be the slightly stoned joker at the party that's fucking around. A lot of this isn't meant to be serious and i don't just mean that they are jokes; i mean they are meant to be understood as absurd. Unfortunately, he does mean some stuff and then doesn't adequately communicate the difference between the more absurdist. For example, it feels like he could do the disabled material in front of a disabled audience and make it work but he's assuming we know he's not serious, which is what makes the joke not work. Bill Burr is a master at this; he'll take a hot take on some taboo subject but you know he's not serious, whilst also making you second guess yourself around it.
My other point around this is that I think a lot of these guys, whilst being motivated by finding a receptive and lucrative audience, are also approaching comedy from it's original freedom of speech roots, like back in the day Lennie Bruce stuff and it's almost a point of principle that you should be able to say what you want. I think there's some merit to this but also that sensibilities change and they haven't changed with it. Comedy (and particularly that brand of american comedy) has been dominated by brash, kinda aggressive men and it's great that other people get to create and consume comedy too.
Last point would be that this stuff isn't really that edgy anyway, compared to edginess of old.
Dave made his career on this so-called lazy, punching down comedy you're talking about since his days on Chappelle's show and his older specials like Killing Em Softly. My guess is you don't like it because he's targeting groups you're a part of or have a soft spot for.
@@thedude8526 you guess wrong. I have no sacred cows at all.
Like I said, I've been a fan of his for 30 years. I've seen everything he has ever done, including new material nights, podcasts, interviews etc as well as seeing him live.
I'd agree that he has always had an aspect of punching down and often it has worked but the issues and perspectives have changed over time, he hasn't and it means he lacks the nuance to go at some these issues perfectly. Don't get me wrong, he is still a great comedian and just a naturally hilarious human being but I think he could have drilled down more into aspects of his act; ultimately he doesn't need to because he has a payday and a sizeable audience already and that is what makes him lazy.
@rupeoverlay3153 The only thing that's changed is that the LGBTQ community is now basically a protected class that many people deem as hands-off when it comes to any criticism or jokes. His material is still funny to a lot of people, and the fact that he continues doubling down on a community that can't take a joke, and are trying so hard to get him in hot water, makes it even funnier to me. Call it lazy if you want.
@@rupeoverlay3153You think you don’t, that’s your ideal. But I believe you’ve failed a bit. That’s alright though.
@thedude8526 Nah. That was his best era, in my opinion. His jokes today are meh.
While I agree with parts of what you said, I tend to disagree with other parts. What he said about only being able to hate those you're jealous of isn't true, you could hate someone that assaults you and not be jealous of them. On the other hand, when he said he hated younger people I think he was using the term hate very lightly, more so implying that he had a gripe with or dislike some attributes of younger generations.
Also, your stance on what comedy ought or ought not be is VERY close to what mine is. You stated something along the lines of seeing comedy as something we have to all relate to with our personal experiences, a shared thing, that our minds are similar. However, I'd argue that orthough that meets the mark closely, that only meets half the mark. IMO comedy and the purpose of comedy has been a way to find a way of understanding that our minds are similar and to break what's called "Collective Illusions". This is how we've broken taboo's and have been able to discuss topics that are sensitive towards people, teaching people to laugh at themselves rather than defend their oppressions every single time. I hear a lot of people say that women are extremely sensitive and can't take jokes, as though there's something biologically different about them and their brains. I highly disagree with that, I think that we've conditioned men to have thicker skin about certain jokes. The example I often use for this is big belly or baldness jokes. Most people would never go up to a woman and said "Starting to get a bit bald there!" or "Your belly is getting bigger putting on some chonk!", however they would do this with men. The idea of never ask a woman her age etc, these are the reasons why women tend to react more because they haven't been tested in the same way. What comedy does is tests people, it brings up sensitive topics and allows discussion to happen in a non-hostile way and mention collective illusions that make us think. You could even make a bit out of the baldness/belly thing I just said.
and when women do hear things about weight and appearance it usually isnt lighthearted
@@portaldolphin13 Yeah I 100% agree with that!
@@portaldolphin13 and when guys do?
@@sirosagaming8228 it's lighthearted?
@@portaldolphin13 why can't it be with women?
36:50 this is why children’s superhero suits have warnings for parents that wearing the suit doesn’t enable you to fly. The young child can’t read this. Is there a person alive that doesn’t understand this? No but there are millions of people that underestimate the intelligence of their fellow citizens.
"Crystals and astrology are young people shit", meanwhile my grandma and all her elders would have a fit if I were to marry someone who's stars aren't aligned with mine...
3:34 remember a number of comedians have advised that there performance is an act. Their goal is to get you to laugh, and they will do that however they can that works, regardless of their personal politics.
I think when it comes to these guys, I can't help but think about how you can get away with almost anything IF it's funny. And the jokes they tell that are controversial usually aren't. There's rarely any word play, unexpected outcomes or what have you. Dave Chappelle is becoming more and more just an old man asking "what were you doing with the pound cake?"
Matt Riff’s opening joke was so hack… How hack was it?
Laurie Kilmartin (An amazing comic with a very dark sense of humor) has a better bit listing off every dude that’s told that joke in their special since the 80’s 😂
Fantastic video, really put some things in context for me. Overal glad that I am not into standup comedy anymore
I find the biggest problem with regressive stand up comedy is all the lampshading. When every joke is prefaced with "this is gonna get me cancelled", the jokes don't have a chance to land even when they could be funny. They're self consciously choosing to be culture warriors, then choosing jokes on that basis, then trying to tip toe up to the line. If you can't say a joke boldly, it's not worth saying.
comedians have notoriously been arrested for offending the sensibilities of their public. look at all the obscenity law cases from back in the day. this is no different. that's why comedy belongs in clubs, not on network TV, or even Netflix, apparently.
The comedians who have sidestepped the culture war are doing a great job. John Mulaney and Shane Gillis are great.
Hearing guys do "I identify as an attack Helicopter" jokes in the 2020s or Dave Chappelle's jokes which rely on the idea that trans black people don't exist get exhausting.
I think the whole "it's a joke" vs "YOU ARE DOING HARM" thing tries to simplify a very complicated subject. The reaction to guys like Chappelle and Gervais is simultaneously "it's only a joke" and "this man is a truthteller". There are jokes rooted in absurdity and jokes used in trying to make a serious point and few are interested in trying to disentangle them.
Shane Gillis in particular is an interesting case because you can almost see him losing and winning back politically progressive crowds in real time.
At least part of it is that people have often over-egged comedians as truth-tellers, people like Carlin and Hick are held up more for their political status than for being funny.
Black trans what?..
Love your videos! Do you do your own editing ?
I feel my issue with Armageddon was that he didn’t tell any jokes. No matter how sincere he was, he was there to tell jokes, not wax philosophical.
Don't usually watch stand-up, but did most of these. Found your take on them to be similar to my own, tho I likely wouldn't have given it as much thought as you.
Thanks, you explicate well what I felt bout them, eh, for the most part at any rate 😊.
Not sure if I’m with you on this one Kido. I think what you are observing is just that you don’t think they are funny. Comedy is subjective and there is no comedian that is universally funny. Even Dave Chappell in his prime couldn’t get a laugh out of my parents not because he isn’t funny but they are from eastern Europe and don’t understand a lot of the references necessary to understand the jokes. I would often repeat polish jokes to my friends and while I would think they are hilarious, that particular style of dark humor makes you look like a psycho in the west, while back home they are witty and relatable.
I agree 👍🏽 She took them outta context too much. I watched these specials and thought they were funny 🤷🏾♀️ I can't remember if they did any punching up but she doesn't say so either way so it comes off as ... I don't wanna be one of censorship types but they all kinda suck, with some nuance, and aren't that funny... funny to who? The "woke mob" lol I believe in human rights for erbody. I also think we should be reasonable abt in/directly censoring opinions we don't like or labeling them 'mid life' crisis blah x3 🙃
@chanson8508 you have a problem if you find their material funny. They often dont even try to make a joke, or so called jokes are one dimentional, surface level and the first thought that would occur to everyone. After 80s comedy fad died down most of the hacks gone, but the ones you named belong in that category. Wish you were alive back in the day to witness how unfunny and preachy Carlin, Pryor, Lenny Bruce and hacks like them were.
Comedy writing on TV in the 90s was leagues above in speed, cleverness and sharpness. Nowadays its ok, but tainted by postirony, overabundance of meta, subversive, memey and referential half-jokes. I wont even talk how podcast culture brought down the standards. Now being authentic is on top of priority list compared to smth like you know, being funny. Thats a trend, but there are many outliers, so some still respect the craft in its pure form.
For universally funny I would say 5 names off the top: Conan O'Brien, Robin Williams, Simpsons, MST3k/RiffTrax and Animaniacs/Looney Tunes.
33:08 exactly! I should probably wait until the end before commenting. But then I’d have to make notes or only comment once. It helps the channel to comment many times.
I’ve noticed in recent decades “comedy” that punches down in the name of edginess or political incorrectness has become all too common victimizing the demonize and vulnerable
I feel extra sorry for the Make A Wish kids whose wishes include Ricky Gervais in any way shape or form.
The only current comedian I can think of who doesn't cater to either side is Joe Pera. Man just keeps it wholesome af and still makes you laugh
Have you checked out Josh Johnson?
44:14 now that's a projection if I ever saw one 😅
This is the first video of yours I've seen and the discussion was great and all but I'm mostly here to say you have a fantastic audiobook voice.
Respectfully, this was not as insightful as I was hoping. I recognize the ambition it takes to take on a complex topic in the industry, but I think you missed the mark on some of your main points, or there is some clarity lacking… example would be leaving out the evidence of Ricky’s “identity crisis”. He doesn’t show any doubt in his stances, and he hasn’t recently changed any stance afaik, and he hasn’t expressed that he’s in any personal distress about cultural issues. Saw him on “comedians in cars getting coffee” for example, and he’s very much entertained by these cultural changes. I also tend to think Rife was very intentional in his bait-and-switch… it makes sense to be a more palatable version of yourself when trying to gain online traction. And since his brand is not going to appeal to his old fanbase, he ripped off the bandaid and was not the least bit subtle in his anti-woke approach.
A comic, just like any other artist or person, doesn’t have to appeal to all demographics at all times. I don’t think it’s oversight, it’s intentional when they write jokes for a narrow demographic slice. Picasso doesn’t appeal to everyone, Terry Gilliam doesn’t appeal to everyone, Kidology doesn’t appeal to everyone. It’s fine to not cater to the entire world. A nihilist doesn’t care about hope, so it would be very inauthentic to force that point too much.
The internet is definitely a toxic swamp, the main platform of bullying now. I’ve only seen bullying IRL a couple times, but online bullying is normalized, not just cancellations, I mean bullying in general.
21:29 it is a performance to make money and you can’t help but laugh at the jokes.
It’s almost about free will: are you able to choose whether you find a joke funny or not? I don’t think so. I also think the most important factor in choosing to pay a comedian to watch them is whether you laugh at their jokes or not. Not funny = not getting money.
The issue is that success and failure are never acknowledged to be the point of a venture, it has to be about power or politics.
Your voice sounds exactly how I imagined Hermoine Granger's voice to sound like when I used to read the books
I LOVE that you highlighted Jessica Kirson! She's my fave omg