Watching your videos because I am about to get my hands dirty on my 2014 ES300h hybrid battery. I did not have a degree in Electrical Engineering for nothing. Wish me luck
In the day, radio control cars and planes, we discharge down go .4 per cell. They not lead or lipo. U can also pulse a higher voltage to bring the back. 3 or 4 quick taps 15 volts or higher
I assume that you have figured this out by now but you were reading up on NiCd cells which really do not behave like NiMH in that Nickel Cadmium cells do have a memory issue and yes they can be refreshed using a large flash of current but not so with the Nickel Metal Hydride cells/modules from the Toyota Prius cars. Anyhow, thanks for the information. I too used a headlight bulb to try to get a load test going. Should have used 2.
Yeah, I knew that the article was mainly talking about NiCd cells. Some parameters will be different as you said, but the general concept is the same, since they're both Nickel-based batteries, causing crystals to form the memory effect. NiMH cells were designed to fix this memory effect issue that NiCd cells had, therefore NiMH are less prone to the memory effect than NiCd. But they do still have the problem. Watch part 3 of this video series to see me bring some back to life!
The fancy multimeter is called Agilent 34401A but you don't need it. I just have one at home because I'm an engineer and it was my only 2nd multimeter I had available. Any multimeter should be fine as long as they're not too cheap, can display at least 2 decimal points, and are rated for at least CAT II (category 2 safety). Usually you'll see what CAT it's rated for at the inputs of the multimeter and/or on the probes. For example, the red handheld multimeter I used was from Harbor Freight Tools for $25-$30ish dollars and on the probes it says it's rated for CAT II
If this video helped you save time and money, please consider supporting me by donating using the "Thanks" button. All donations go directly into making more videos and better videos. Thank you!
Hi, I've heard that very important that reconditioned modules' capacity to be close to each other, some say variation should be no more than 200mAh, what do you think, and is it possible equalize capacity? I am reconditioning my gen 2 Prius modules now and see 500-600mAh variation. Thanks!
@@eugenevosko7832 Hi, thanks for watching! I am working on a new, deep-dive video of reconditioning NiMH batteries. There are some things I did not fully understand when I made this video series that I understand much better now. Hopefully the video will be ready in about a month or two... Working full time and doing extensive measurements and testing, while fixing my car is not easy! Not to mention putting together a video of all of that... To answer your questions: I think that the main thing that matters is making sure that none of the modules have a really low capacity, because the lowest one will dictate how much your entire pack can charge and discharge. The higher the capacity on the weakest module, the better. For mine, I'm aiming for at least 5000mAh per module. (My battery pack went bad again 2.5 years after fixing it in these these videos.) That being said, I haven't done extensive testing and measurements on this yet, but I will for that future deep-dive video I mentioned. So take my current answer with a grain of salt. I could be wrong.
@@FixitFox Hi and thank you for your prompt response! 5000mAh discharge capacity is my goal too. My understanding you reconditioned your battery 2.5 years ago, and your car is still running, that's great, I hope then that my Prius will run no less than 2.5 years too! Thank you for your great video!
@@eugenevosko7832 Sorry if my response was a bit confusing. The battery went bad again 2.5 years after reconditioning it. I'm in the process of fixing it again right now and making a new video. But last time, I think I had allowed modules to be as low as 4500mAh so it may have lasted longer if I was aiming for 5000mAh or higher. Also, I store my car outside, I don't have a garage. And where I live it's sunny and hot almost the entire year. So those could have contributed for the pack degrading faster.
@@FixitFox 2.5 years is not bad at all! The reason I am reconditioning myself now is because I paid $1400 for this to company that supposed to give lifetime warranty but the battery died in 13-14 months, I found the company was out of business, or changed their name, anyway I could not reach them. More than half modules were junk, possibly hot weather this summer contributed to this too, though I have garage and didn't drive much, most likely they installed shitty modules. My replacement modules look much much better, I hope after I finish, the battery will last at least a few years
Hi. Which DC supply you use to balance the voltage of the cells? I have seen some refurbishment people who use some sort of specific chargerdischagers and balancer with PC software (USA Made) and they doing very well. Don’t know which supplier can I get all those equipments from? Thanks
I'm not sure where you can get equipment like that from. I haven't heard of that but it sounds cool! I took it to a repair shop in the end and they balanced it for me. They didn't say what high voltage DC charger they used but I assume they used the prolong charger that I mentioned in part 3 of this video series. Go check it out, your questions might be answered there!
Nope! Some other prius models do count from the right to left, but I double checked and triple checked the correct way to count mine. Check part 3 if you're interested, I explain there what happened
You spent so much time reading about NiCd cells. Do yu realize that the cells you have in the Prius are NiMH and they have "a bit" different parameters. Like for charging, discharging, some memory effect and that NiMH cells are easily damaged by over discharging while NiCd cells are not damaged by over discharging, but by over charging, etc.
Good eye! Yeah, I knew that the article was mainly talking about NiCd cells. Maybe I should have clarified that in the video. Some parameters will be different as you said, but the general concept is the same, since they're both Nickel-based batteries, causing crystals to form the memory effect. I believe NiMH cells are also less prone to the memory effect than NiCd cells but obviously they still have the problem. I don't remember which one of the two is more prone to be damaged by over charging or over discharging, but should definitely be careful doing it with both.
Hi, I colored them by myself. I didn't get the information from anywhere. I just checked how long they took to discharge with the lightbulb, and I compared them to each other. Some of them discharged very fast and some took much longer to discharge with the lightbulb, so it was obvious which were bad. You can see later in this video that the cells I ordered from eBay held up even better than my "good" ones that I labeled in green. You can watch part 3 of this video series to see what I ended up doing to fix this problem.
It would have been easier if you would remove the mounting bolts of the 28 modules first and than remove the whole bottom assembly. Recommend you than remove only one of the compression blocks furtherest from the fan side and than replace which ever module you need to replace.
Good question. I used a headlight light bulb from my wife's 2007 Honda Fit. Not sure what the specs are for it but I don't think it matters. As long as you use the same bulb for all the battery cell modules, you will be able to compare apples to apples and see which ones deplete faster than others. But definitely watch this part fully and also watch part 3 of this video series because it will give you more insight to what's going on. Good luck and I hope you can get your car fixed too!
@@FixitFox one more question. so I started the bulb (using prius bulb) testing. however after 4 cells tested I shorted the leads on the fifth. these were 18 gauge leads from harbor freight. It said 300 volts and 1.6 A max. I focused on the voltage and the amperage slipped from my mind. any suggestions on gauge for test leads.
@@fnaeem77 I'm assuming you shorted the leads by accident? Also, I think 18 gauge leads should be fine. As long as the wire isn't getting hot while testing, you're good. The only problem a thin wire would pose in this scenario is a fire hazard. So just check and make sure your wires aren't getting hot while running your tests. But I'm pretty sure that an 18 gauge wire with 3.5A won't get hot.
Nice informative video, but you got the numbering of the modules backwards. In Japan they read from right to left, so module number one would be on the far right, not on the left.
Sorry for the late reply. For some reason my RUclips hasn't been notifying me of new comments even though I have it enabled. I looked up the seller but they don't have any listing on ebay anymore.
I used to drive taxi. My Camry is ex taxi with over 800,000kms. Anyway the owner of the taxis would take out the battery and leave it sit in the shed a few months and after put into another car and sometimes they come good.
@@FixitFox not really, into RC planes and old guy who use to use mainly NiMH battery would discharge them down to nothing with a light bulb, a few times. Bring back to better live.
You're right. You'd have to buy it from a reputable seller by checking their feedback. But even then you're running a slight risk of getting bad stuff. Ebay has always been like that. At least for me it has.
I have gotten the red triangle of death like 4 times now for the past 4 months. I had one two weeks ago but I always clear the codes with a scan tool. I took the batteries apart today and all the batteries modules voltages read from 8.20 to 8.10v. None of the modules was below 8v. What are my options to fishing out the bad batteries?
If you want to be 100% sure, your only option is to buy a battery charger/discharger and run a few charge cycles with it on each module. Check out part 3 of this video series.
I bought them from eBay. The seller who I bought from doesn't sell them anymore. You're going to have to look around for a trusted seller and buy from them. I hope it works out for you!
Unfortunately the dealer only sells the entire battery assembly together and not individual cells. For the charger details, you should watch part 3, but make sure you watch it all the way through because the chargers I bought didn't work very well and I give some more info/perspective throughout the video.
@@edwinbab705 When I was fixing my battery, I talked to Toyota and they said they don't fix the battery. They only replace the entire assembly. They consider individual parts of the battery "non-serviceable."
@@edwinbab705 Wish I could tell you where to go but I can't help, I'm sorry. I'm an engineer so I generally understand how things work. And for the things I didn't know or understand, I learned those through research online.
@@FixitFox I drive my Prius is on almost 10 hours and sometime light comes showing hybrid cooling needs maintenance but is clean so my car has 160k milage and battery tends to get hot I don't know why Toyota put the hot air vent inside trunk it should have put air goes to outside not in trunk bad design because that heat stays in trunk and makes car interior hot and also goes back to battery again
@@edwinbab705 I agree, it's not a very good design. Is the fan/blower running properly? Maybe it's not working, or only sometimes working? If that's working properly, I'm thinking that the issue might be related to your coolant under the hood. The coolant cools the engine as well as the inverter.
Brand new one is ~$4200 with labor included at Toyota. Take a look at the quote I received from them at 0:28 in this video. What you find on Google or eBay or anywhere else for $1750 are refurbished ones. They do the same thing that I do in these video series to refurbish the battery pack.
@@FixitFox Yea.. most things get cheaper with time... But new cars sure are an exception... Most dealers charging $4,000 over MSRP for a new car... really pays to fix the old one...
Both NiCd and NiMH have the memory effect. The concept is the same. Actually, NiMH was invented because of the memory effect issues with NiCd. But NiMH experiences it too. Just not to the same extent as NiCd.
@sashaviroviy5065 It's the exact same thing with crystal formation. Battery University website explains the crystal formation best on the NiCd page so that's what I used.
Watching your videos because I am about to get my hands dirty on my 2014 ES300h hybrid battery. I did not have a degree in Electrical Engineering for nothing. Wish me luck
You got this!
Awesome video really love that you added the website that tells you how to recondition the modules along with the science behind it 10 out of 10
17:56 appears :)
In the day, radio control cars and planes, we discharge down go .4 per cell. They not lead or lipo. U can also pulse a higher voltage to bring the back. 3 or 4 quick taps 15 volts or higher
You’re killing it !
Hi,
Did you buy refurbished module of used module? What would be your recommendation based on your research?
Thank you
I assume that you have figured this out by now but you were reading up on NiCd cells which really do not behave like NiMH in that Nickel Cadmium cells do have a memory issue and yes they can be refreshed using a large flash of current but not so with the Nickel Metal Hydride cells/modules from the Toyota Prius cars. Anyhow, thanks for the information. I too used a headlight bulb to try to get a load test going. Should have used 2.
Yeah, I knew that the article was mainly talking about NiCd cells. Some parameters will be different as you said, but the general concept is the same, since they're both Nickel-based batteries, causing crystals to form the memory effect. NiMH cells were designed to fix this memory effect issue that NiCd cells had, therefore NiMH are less prone to the memory effect than NiCd. But they do still have the problem. Watch part 3 of this video series to see me bring some back to life!
The 28 modules by theselves weigh 68 pounts. I recently weighed .
What is the name of the fancy multimeter ? and what kind of multimeter would you advice me to work on PRIUS before 2012.
Thank you
The fancy multimeter is called Agilent 34401A but you don't need it. I just have one at home because I'm an engineer and it was my only 2nd multimeter I had available. Any multimeter should be fine as long as they're not too cheap, can display at least 2 decimal points, and are rated for at least CAT II (category 2 safety). Usually you'll see what CAT it's rated for at the inputs of the multimeter and/or on the probes. For example, the red handheld multimeter I used was from Harbor Freight Tools for $25-$30ish dollars and on the probes it says it's rated for CAT II
If this video helped you save time and money, please consider supporting me by donating using the "Thanks" button. All donations go directly into making more videos and better videos. Thank you!
Hi, I've heard that very important that reconditioned modules' capacity to be close to each other, some say variation should be no more than 200mAh, what do you think, and is it possible equalize capacity? I am reconditioning my gen 2 Prius modules now and see 500-600mAh variation. Thanks!
@@eugenevosko7832 Hi, thanks for watching! I am working on a new, deep-dive video of reconditioning NiMH batteries. There are some things I did not fully understand when I made this video series that I understand much better now. Hopefully the video will be ready in about a month or two... Working full time and doing extensive measurements and testing, while fixing my car is not easy! Not to mention putting together a video of all of that...
To answer your questions:
I think that the main thing that matters is making sure that none of the modules have a really low capacity, because the lowest one will dictate how much your entire pack can charge and discharge. The higher the capacity on the weakest module, the better. For mine, I'm aiming for at least 5000mAh per module. (My battery pack went bad again 2.5 years after fixing it in these these videos.) That being said, I haven't done extensive testing and measurements on this yet, but I will for that future deep-dive video I mentioned. So take my current answer with a grain of salt. I could be wrong.
@@FixitFox Hi and thank you for your prompt response! 5000mAh discharge capacity is my goal too. My understanding you reconditioned your battery 2.5 years ago, and your car is still running, that's great, I hope then that my Prius will run no less than 2.5 years too! Thank you for your great video!
@@eugenevosko7832 Sorry if my response was a bit confusing. The battery went bad again 2.5 years after reconditioning it.
I'm in the process of fixing it again right now and making a new video. But last time, I think I had allowed modules to be as low as 4500mAh so it may have lasted longer if I was aiming for 5000mAh or higher. Also, I store my car outside, I don't have a garage. And where I live it's sunny and hot almost the entire year. So those could have contributed for the pack degrading faster.
@@FixitFox 2.5 years is not bad at all! The reason I am reconditioning myself now is because I paid $1400 for this to company that supposed to give lifetime warranty but the battery died in 13-14 months, I found the company was out of business, or changed their name, anyway I could not reach them. More than half modules were junk, possibly hot weather this summer contributed to this too, though I have garage and didn't drive much, most likely they installed shitty modules. My replacement modules look much much better, I hope after I finish, the battery will last at least a few years
Hi. Which DC supply you use to balance the voltage of the cells? I have seen some refurbishment people who use some sort of specific chargerdischagers and balancer with PC software (USA Made) and they doing very well. Don’t know which supplier can I get all those equipments from? Thanks
I'm not sure where you can get equipment like that from. I haven't heard of that but it sounds cool! I took it to a repair shop in the end and they balanced it for me. They didn't say what high voltage DC charger they used but I assume they used the prolong charger that I mentioned in part 3 of this video series. Go check it out, your questions might be answered there!
I've seen the cells are counted from the right to the left. Is that why you had unexpected results?
Nope! Some other prius models do count from the right to left, but I double checked and triple checked the correct way to count mine. Check part 3 if you're interested, I explain there what happened
You spent so much time reading about NiCd cells. Do yu realize that the cells you have in the Prius are NiMH and they have "a bit" different parameters. Like for charging, discharging, some memory effect and that NiMH cells are easily damaged by over discharging while NiCd cells are not damaged by over discharging, but by over charging, etc.
Good eye! Yeah, I knew that the article was mainly talking about NiCd cells. Maybe I should have clarified that in the video. Some parameters will be different as you said, but the general concept is the same, since they're both Nickel-based batteries, causing crystals to form the memory effect. I believe NiMH cells are also less prone to the memory effect than NiCd cells but obviously they still have the problem. I don't remember which one of the two is more prone to be damaged by over charging or over discharging, but should definitely be careful doing it with both.
Just can you tell me What is the range of voltage it will be green ;yellow ,orange, and red
And from where you got that information
Best regard
Hi, I colored them by myself. I didn't get the information from anywhere. I just checked how long they took to discharge with the lightbulb, and I compared them to each other. Some of them discharged very fast and some took much longer to discharge with the lightbulb, so it was obvious which were bad.
You can see later in this video that the cells I ordered from eBay held up even better than my "good" ones that I labeled in green. You can watch part 3 of this video series to see what I ended up doing to fix this problem.
It would have been easier if you would remove the mounting bolts of the 28 modules first and than remove the whole bottom assembly. Recommend you than remove only one of the compression blocks furtherest from the fan side and than replace which ever module you need to replace.
what kind of specs of the bulb to load test ? have been following your video to try to fix my battery ?
Good question. I used a headlight light bulb from my wife's 2007 Honda Fit. Not sure what the specs are for it but I don't think it matters.
As long as you use the same bulb for all the battery cell modules, you will be able to compare apples to apples and see which ones deplete faster than others. But definitely watch this part fully and also watch part 3 of this video series because it will give you more insight to what's going on. Good luck and I hope you can get your car fixed too!
@@FixitFox one more question. so I started the bulb (using prius bulb) testing. however after 4 cells tested I shorted the leads on the fifth. these were 18 gauge leads from harbor freight. It said 300 volts and 1.6 A max. I focused on the voltage and the amperage slipped from my mind. any suggestions on gauge for test leads.
@@fnaeem77 I'm assuming you shorted the leads by accident?
Also, I think 18 gauge leads should be fine. As long as the wire isn't getting hot while testing, you're good. The only problem a thin wire would pose in this scenario is a fire hazard. So just check and make sure your wires aren't getting hot while running your tests. But I'm pretty sure that an 18 gauge wire with 3.5A won't get hot.
@@fnaeem77 And keep your setup away from flammables. I did this on the carpet. I'm a bad example 😛
Nice informative video, but you got the numbering of the modules backwards. In Japan they read from right to left, so module number one would be on the far right, not on the left.
are you sure, hes working from the front of the battery not the rear. they are numbered from the cooling fan side
They are numbered from the cooling hand side.
I came here to say this
You should have used colored markers that matched the colors of your graph to mark the cells.
That's a good idea!
Yeah Dude. That song right now in covid19 sounds exactly like Metroid Prime!!! I love Nintendo games!!!!
Me too!
what's the name of the ebay seller you bought these modules from?
centexsi, but I haven't seen them sell those modules in over a year now
Where do you get your modules from ?
I got them from eBay. But the person I bought them from isn't selling any more at the moment :(
Who did you buy cells from?
Sorry for the late reply. For some reason my RUclips hasn't been notifying me of new comments even though I have it enabled. I looked up the seller but they don't have any listing on ebay anymore.
I used to drive taxi. My Camry is ex taxi with over 800,000kms. Anyway the owner of the taxis would take out the battery and leave it sit in the shed a few months and after put into another car and sometimes they come good.
Very strange!
@@FixitFox not really, into RC planes and old guy who use to use mainly NiMH battery would discharge them down to nothing with a light bulb, a few times. Bring back to better live.
How can you trust any used modules purchased on eBay?
You're right. You'd have to buy it from a reputable seller by checking their feedback. But even then you're running a slight risk of getting bad stuff. Ebay has always been like that. At least for me it has.
You can test them for capacity when they show up... :)
Do capacitance test.. Thats whatvi use and i do hybrid repair work.. It is more accurate with regards to the health of each battery.
what kind of tool(s) does one need to do this?
how do you pair or order the cells?
👍👍
I have gotten the red triangle of death like 4 times now for the past 4 months. I had one two weeks ago but I always clear the codes with a scan tool. I took the batteries apart today and all the batteries modules voltages read from 8.20 to 8.10v. None of the modules was below 8v. What are my options to fishing out the bad batteries?
If you want to be 100% sure, your only option is to buy a battery charger/discharger and run a few charge cycles with it on each module. Check out part 3 of this video series.
@@FixitFox ok thanks
The engine codes should tell you which blocks are bad at least... :)
greetings I have a lexus es300h does not start and the error code is c029A
This is the weirdest GC controller mod video I've ever seen.
"Bus bars" Not shaped like bars or a bus at all. My disappointment is immeasurable.
Hi can you tell me the guy you bought from on ebay? Thanks
Sorry but last time I checked he doesn't sell them anymore :(
Sir my car toyota aqua also showing battery fully charged but the car also asked for replace battery pack, where's the problem plz explain me
what codes? :)
Where you bought them I need some help
I bought them from eBay. The seller who I bought from doesn't sell them anymore. You're going to have to look around for a trusted seller and buy from them. I hope it works out for you!
im sure battery pack is designed to fail, surely they knew there was going to be overheating of cells.
Can u come check my toyota prius cause the battery is bad
Lol yea he is on the way now, just wait right there Mang
Me too, I'm coming customer, please wait by your front door!
Does dealer sell cells and what charger jse to test cells
Unfortunately the dealer only sells the entire battery assembly together and not individual cells.
For the charger details, you should watch part 3, but make sure you watch it all the way through because the chargers I bought didn't work very well and I give some more info/perspective throughout the video.
@@FixitFox where can I get training for Toyota to see how they fix battery
@@edwinbab705 When I was fixing my battery, I talked to Toyota and they said they don't fix the battery. They only replace the entire assembly. They consider individual parts of the battery "non-serviceable."
@@FixitFox I know I want get training
@@edwinbab705 Wish I could tell you where to go but I can't help, I'm sorry. I'm an engineer so I generally understand how things work. And for the things I didn't know or understand, I learned those through research online.
How much u paid for cells
The end of part 3 of this video series will show you all the prices of everything I paid for
@@FixitFox I drive my Prius is on almost 10 hours and sometime light comes showing hybrid cooling needs maintenance but is clean so my car has 160k milage and battery tends to get hot I don't know why Toyota put the hot air vent inside trunk it should have put air goes to outside not in trunk bad design because that heat stays in trunk and makes car interior hot and also goes back to battery again
@@edwinbab705 I agree, it's not a very good design. Is the fan/blower running properly? Maybe it's not working, or only sometimes working?
If that's working properly, I'm thinking that the issue might be related to your coolant under the hood. The coolant cools the engine as well as the inverter.
@@FixitFox they all work fine it's Justin keep car running 10 hours and driving
Mate it would have been cheaper to buy second hand battery and just take the modules u needed out of it.
I called nearby places to see how much a second hand battery would cost and it would have been 3-4 times the price.
@@FixitFox ok, but U have left over modules to sell
@@theaussienurseflipper.8113 That's true, I didn't think of that.
@@FixitFox I been thinking for a while. For the best way. second hand modules here in Australia r $60 each. They seam to sell them quickly.
Brand new one is $1,750.00
Brand new one is ~$4200 with labor included at Toyota. Take a look at the quote I received from them at 0:28 in this video.
What you find on Google or eBay or anywhere else for $1750 are refurbished ones. They do the same thing that I do in these video series to refurbish the battery pack.
@@FixitFox My neighbor bought one shipped to his house with all brand new cells with a 5 year warranty from a place in California… $1,750
@@skepticalmechanic nice! Things might have changed since I made these videos then :)
@@FixitFox Yea.. most things get cheaper with time... But new cars sure are an exception... Most dealers charging $4,000 over MSRP for a new car... really pays to fix the old one...
That packing job is...bad.
Reading about Ni-Cd - not about Ni-Mh?.. And other - not really informative.
Both NiCd and NiMH have the memory effect. The concept is the same. Actually, NiMH was invented because of the memory effect issues with NiCd. But NiMH experiences it too. Just not to the same extent as NiCd.
@@FixitFox I agree. But better to find info about what we have
@sashaviroviy5065 It's the exact same thing with crystal formation. Battery University website explains the crystal formation best on the NiCd page so that's what I used.