Auto Focusing with Manual Lenses - PDMOVIE Live Air 3 Smart LiDAR and wireless Focus Controller
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2023
- Review of PDMOVIE Live Air 3 SMART wireless focus controller with build in LiDAR for auto focusing with cine or vintage lenses.
#pdmovie #lidar #autofocus
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Хобби
Great video. I've been focus pulling for a few decades, these new toys are totally worth testing and using, even on feature films and commercials, for certain shots.
I've been an early adopter of PDMovie since the beginning, they work great for, again, specific applications. Their motors are stupidly strong, but their customer service
and support is really weak. Their hardware is built more like Arri and less like Canon, and their function settings are really well thought out most of the time.
Great review, I agree with most of what you say. I work in a different world than you, but I get it. I like that you're to-the-point and don't mess around. It is what it is and
these tools work really great for what they are. I tend to use Preston and ArriWCU kits, but I really do use these too, they have their place and this review really supports that.
Well done Pav SZ and well done PD Movie!
Well I had no idea this even existed! Looks like a great option with cinema glass for sure. Thanks for putting it on my radar. Subbed!
Thanks for the sub!
Yes! It's not perfect but it is a game changer for me personally
Always trust your reviews, just bought my self a one this will make me use my cine lens more
I'm still loving mine and using it regularly
Uh, nice little device! Thanks for the review Pavel!
Thanks Luca!!
Thanks for this. Finally a solution to the Sony FS5's slow autofocus system when run and gunning! Life is good again!
It certainly is a good solution!
Killer review, Pav, great job!
Thanks Shane!
Oh very cool! I’ll be trying that at some point for sure. Come a long way, that’s for sure.
I will be making a follow up video very soon
Very cool gadget and great review as usual!
Thanks Richard!!
very tempting! thanks for showing
for me personally, its a game changer
This looks so cool thanks!
Thanks for watching!
I want this. Was thinking about selling my manual focus lenses yesterday, rethinking that idea now.
Same! I stopped using manual lenses all together until this came out - game changer for me personally
This is EPIC! The price isn't too bad either.
Game changer for me
great review dude! I may need to try this out
Thanks! You should!
Thanks uncle PAV, this is exactly what the world need right now instead of a combo RS3 Pro LiDar 👍👍
Thank you for watching
I disagree. this is only center focused while RS3 Pro lidar has tracking. also you don't need the RS3 Pro all the time. once programmed into the lidar you don't need the gimbal. this is an ok system but I prefer tracking AF
but good video PAV
@@binaryinfections yes of course, AF tracking is always going to win with this.
This is not center focus though. It will focus on the subject close to the LiDAR, everywhere in the frame
@@PavSZ ah nice nice !
Looks fantastic!
It is!
Awesome video. Thanks for sharing. Stunning bokeh.
Thanks for watching!
I've been waiting for such solution for 2 years and for this particular one around 6 months already ... I hope I can preorder it on time, cause there are only 10 days left and I'm broke :D.
I've been waiting for it all my life. Not perfect but a game changer for me personally
Thank you for this - its awesome!!!
You're very welcome!
Great review and I like that lens
thanks!
Which lens?
awesome! great job!
Thank you! Cheers!
I’m by myself a lot and film myself so this is great.
me too! game changer
Looks like the 3rd batch will be delayed by about a week. Just got an email about it. Can't wait to work it on a shoot once it is in! (Your video made me decide to get it ;P)
oh no! at least it is not moth wait.
I am testing it with Sirui nightwalker and vintage lenses soon
Oh that's gonna be rad. I want to use mine with an array of lenses including vintage lenses too! Can't wait to see it!
I can't wait to put this on my Lumix s5ii with an anamorphic lens!
Me too but my sirui 35mm is a touch too hard to turn for it
@@PavSZ I wondered this, my HELIOS 44m-4 lens is sooo stiff to turn. Gutted
I used to have the old 3d focus with the rs2, it was pretty revolutionary back then (and still is).
My big issue though is that you can't set infinity focus - it assumes infinity to be at the hard stop of the lens, which in my experience, rarely is the case with vintage lenses. I would like a system where I can program the exact right point for infinity focus too. Have you've had this problem with any of your vintage lenses, or do all your lenses actually have infinity focus at the hard stop?
good point. More lenses than you think focus to infinity before the infinity.
I think this device makes impossible, possible. It allows to change focus easier when filming yourself or doing basic filming. Unfortunately it's not for everything
Mine come tomorrow 🤩
Nice!
I want one yesterday 👍
haha!
Another great thing is built in power - running usb-c cables (tilta nucleus) to the motor is just such a hassle - and its a shitty connection. Having a built in power is such a gamechanger - def going to test it out
so true.
Their new MOTOR SMART (this is Mini) is even better. I'm making a video about it now
Only thing that I could see being an issue is if it can't be used with a matte box, because if I can't use a matte box that is a non-starter for me. I had a Ronin gimbal with DJI's LiDAR system and returned the whole thing because it never worked properly for me. This looks promising.
Thanks for doing this! Only question I have is if your subject needs to be centre frame or if they can be off to the side like you are in the video?
Thanks for watching!
As long as LiDAR can see the subject, it doesn't matter where in the frame it is.
Sometimes, the lens obscures the right side of the frame a little
I got mine, great device, just keep in mind that you can calibrate 5 lenses max
Yes but you can delete calibration and add another one
@@PavSZ Yes but not so easy in the field, best to get two motors if you have more lenses
Where did you order from?
Interesting device. :)
it really is
This only works for a single point sort of auto focus right? Like no way to say “focus on this person’s head in the frame regardless of where I have the camera framed”?
pretty cool.
it is!
Excellent video Pav, keep them coming! Do you think it could work with lenses like lumix 50 1.8 when you set them to the LINEAR in the camera or you really need a hard physical stop? Another one: How does the setup behave when your talent is more than 5 meters from the camera? The manual says it sets it to approx. 30 meters away and wait, which would not be the correct focus plane. Should you in this case switch quickly to manual follow focus and try to set it on your talent?
I think it is not designed for lenses with focus by wire. It needs hard stops to be calibrated properly.
When there is nothing to focus within 5m range it goes into infinity. It does not do micro adjustments anymore.
Right now there is no quick way to switch it to manual to continue shooting. As soon as you go to manual the motor calibrates (looks for the hard stops) to be able accurately manual focus. Shame
@@PavSZ Thank you for your answer. Well, I saw the producer's statement that i can work with hard stop lenses or lenses that have physical focus scale on the lense (so being a focus by Wire lense does not mean anything yet). Is there any chance that you test these kind of things and make a follow up video or story, talking specifically on ways it can help lumix users? I'm suremany people would be interested in this. I own a few of 1st gen lumix cameras that I love and I am not sure if I should buy an S5ii (i am not a fan of S5 body compared to S1) or buy this device instead to cover most of my desired AF use cases :)
@@Verde88 I will be making a follow up video very soon. I'll test it out then
Great, thanks for the answer @@PavSZ ! One more question: Is it possible to remap the focus throw? Eg. 'convert' an old manual nikkor with a focus throw of something like 30 degrees into something way more useable, lets say 180 degrees from close to infinity? I know you can program it with the Tilta Nucleus Nano II (which looks sick, is cheaper, but has no LiDAR)
I was looking at the DJI system but that seems really complex and expensive. I didn't know about this, so thanks for telling me. I'm guessing it's useless on focus-by-wire lenses though. Is it a worthwhile upgrade from my GH5 to improve the autofocus, or am I better off upgrading the camera?
Yes, it is easier to use than the DJI system.
Although they say it will work with focus by wire lenses I never managed to make it work. It works best with old school lenses with hard stops.
It would be great with GH5 if you were using cinema lenses on it (not fool proof though).
G9II or S5II are much better cameras now in my opinion.
great vid! What if a person or object cross while you are recording? will it just autofocus that instead of the correct object? or could you add somehow any delay on how long would it take to autofocus a new object?
And is it possible to set focus points on screen? or will it only focus at middle of screen?
this is a very simple device. It detects the distance between itself and an object in front of it.
It would change to someone closer. There are focusing speed settings but very basic. Slow ot fast.
There is no electronic connection with the camera or a screen.
when I looked at a review of a similar system from dji, they said that the lidar does not work well with glossy surfaces like a car body and also does not work in fog
same here I guess
did you film this in V-LOG? I don't get these colors straight out of cam
yes, I always film in LOG. All my footage is colour graded
looks nice, if you focus with the Lidar and then change to MF, does the focus stay in place so you can recompose?
I don't thinks so
If you change the manual the focus will move the to current rotation position of the controller
This is something I’ve been looking but for photos. Will this work the same?
theoretically yes but it is not meant for photography
What happens if you are shooting throw a window? for example a car window, will it focus on the background or on the glass? thank you!
most likely it will focus on the glass
what about photography with this using manual lenses does it work just aswell?
it will work but it's not meant for that.
Is it possible to choose your focus point? I'm new to this af system.
no, this is completely camera independent. It detects whatever is the closest to the lens in front of it.
It's nothing like sophisticated auto focusing systems of the cameras but it is auto focusing lenses that were not meant to do that at all
With only 3 focus marks to calibrate, i have trouble understanding how it can be reliable?
Probably not 100% accurate all the time but it works way better than trying to manually focus most of the time
What accessory did you use to attach the motor? Could you link it from Amazon? I don't really want to get a cage.
the cold shoe adapter and the rod come with the kit so you can attach it to the camera without the cage. The problem with it is that if the lens is hard to turn it might wiggle itself out a little
@@PavSZ okay thank you!
Could you try it with longer focal distance lenses, like 50mm at least, perhaps 80mm as well. I hear it does not work so well above 45mm, which makes the system rather pointless, since 50mm on a FF is a standard focal distance, very often used.
I will be testing that in my next video about it soon.
Do you have a meike 35 T2.1? i would love a comparisons with your 7artisans t2.0
Sorry, I don't
Will this work with cameras with no autofocus like the Blackmagic cameras?
it does work completely independently from the camera, so yes, it will work with any camera
this is so good man, I wonder if You can adjust the speed?
yes, three speeds available, slow, medium and fast
thank You man, just checked out their site and it's a magnificent tool cheers@@PavSZ
I want to buy it but I have a doubt... before removing the battery, how do you turn it off? Since there isn't an off button, won't I risk ruining it if I just remove the battery? thank you for the reply
you just remove the battery. That's it
I've recently picked one of these up, I've found the motor can jump off, even when the mounts are as tight as i can make them, have you found this? Also the lack of power button is pretty annoying, having to pull out the battery, which itself is pretty hard to do. A wide, mid and narrow setting would also be good for the lidar detection.
yes, same here but I found that some fiddling with it makes it tighter. The battery is a pain to remove sometimes. They provide little stickers that help getting better grip on the battery
For the battery I found it gets pushed right side of the housing if looking at the lense. So I pull it to the left then pull and it seems to work every time.
Same here: The gear wheel jumps the gear ring on the lens EVERY SINGLE TIME I go to calibrate the range of focus. The included cold shoe mount is useless. No matter where I mount it, on my Sony A7S III hot shoe or the cold shoe on my Smallrig cage, the motor always disengages in calibration. I couldn’t possibly mount it any tighter!
how do you switch from lidarAF to MF while recording? thanks
the motor will have to detect the hard stops of the lens when going into the manual mode. So you can't go from LiDAR to manual and continue focusing by hand. One or the other unfortunately
Is this only for shooting video or can be used for stills?
it's an external device so theoretically it would work for photos but it's not meant for that. A little impractical for photos in my opinion
does it work well when using a telephoto lens?
it will work with any lens but the lens, hood or matte box cannot obscure the clear line of sight of LiDAR
Have you used it with a lens that does not have hard stops?
I've tried. Instruction manual says that there is way to set it up with focus by wire lenses but I was unsuccessful doing so
It looks as though the kit I saw on their website does not come with the lens gear. Appears like you need to buy the pricier "PRO" kit to be able to use it with vintage lenses.
are you sure? It comes with the previous model as well.
You can also but very cheap lens gears from SmallRig
@@PavSZ It was an error on their website. I texted with them and they assured me that it was included but when they checked their page it wasn't listed as part of the kit, so they told me they would correct it. Thanks for replying to my post!
have you tried it with many vintage lenses, my question is does it have enough torque to turn a Helios 44-2, Mine is super smooth but tight. I wonder if this can be adjusted.
not yet but I will; be making a video a out using it with Helios 44-2 soon (if it works)
Mine feels pretty powerful, on the fastest setting it often comes off because it's too fast. In December they're realising a 1nm powered motor, this one is 0.75nm.
@@andytrace If it becomes off it can be because the lens has some play, or you are using a rubber focus gear
@@LarsSteenhoff I am indeed using a rubber focus gear! That's probably it, thanks for the insight 🙏
How strong is the motor? Do you think it’d work with the Sirui Mars anamorphic lenses? Their focus ring is a little tight…
it struggled tiny bit with Sirui Saturn lens that I have tried it but I'll do more tests with it soon
how did you go with testing on the saturns? I have just ordered a 50/75mm set of full frame saturns and keen to know if this works with them. Thanks!@@PavSZ
@@awa303 it is ok. It needs good, tight contact to the gears and it works ok with my 35mm Saturn
@@PavSZ thanks Pav
Thanks Pav....do you think this miraculous gadget could save my Lumix S5 of being replaced due to the bad AF system that has. ?
it possibly could but ... it works best with lenses that have hard stops
Key thing you remember is that it only focuses well up to 4m. The other thing is, it only focuses on whatever is closest Infront of the lens. So if you like to shoot through things for depth, it often gets confused and focuses on the nearest object or biggest object. I'd say for more documentary style shoots it's great, but for more creative stuff, it will be a bit hit and miss
Would be great for manual only lenses. I don’t see this doing well with a lumix s prime. The s5ii is amazing and worth the upgrade!
@@CartyCantDance unfortunatelly, i find s5(ii) not very ergonomic, and not a worthy upgrade from the S1...
@@Verde88 he’s talking about upgrading from the s5, not the larger s1
What's the battery life like? Can you power it externally?
I was running it for few hours non-stop without any problem. You also get double batteries in the kit.
There is no way to power it externally
Will this work on any mirrorless camera?
yeah. It's totally external device. It will work on all cameras
The biggest hesitation for me in getting this is the fact that when you switch from auto to manual focus it will jump. If it just stayed where the last focus point was, then I'd definitely be up for it. Firmware update...?
Yeah, that's a bummer. Maybe they will fix it with the future firmware updates
Please let us know if there is a full manual focus option with this
@@AdamLangdon there is
@@AdamLangdon there is
Damn so it won’t work with manual focus lenses that have infinity symbol on it? Lol. I’m trying to find a cheaper alternative to the noct. 0.95 lenses. I tried fotodiox autofocus adapter from Leica m to Nikon z with .95 TTartisian but it works better for pics than video
it might not work very well with lenses without hard stops.
sooo... did you test it with a matte box?
no, I don't use matt boxes as they are only good for making the rig look bigger for the clients but I have seen some people using this system with matt boxes on instagram. If it works will hugely depend on the lens and its size, it has to be in the right place for Lidar to have clear line of sight
My big problem (deal breaker) matte box. Other units keep the tof LiDAR af separate from the motor for flexible mounting. Never use a matte box no problem.
yeah. Also if the focus ring is more towards the camera body and the lens is large, it will get in the way.
Please take my money PDMOVIE!
haha! use my affiliate link if you do buy it
Will do, thank you for creating content for us! @@PavSZ
If you consider that every manual lens becomes auto focus then it seems an interesting proposition. My one fear: how much grunt is in the motor.
It will depend on the lens but it is hearable. Not ideal fore recording the sound on camera for sure
What if there are multiple subjects?
I'll be doing a follow up video about it soon
I’m guessing their is no tracking like all the older tof LiDAR af prior to the new dji rangefinder. I really want to be proven wrong, but not holding my breath.
Finally an affordable solution! What's the location?
Thank you for watching!
Whalley, Ribble Valley, Lancashire, UK
no English people left in England....where r u originally from?@@PavSZ
@@HEsounds what do you mean by that?
I lived in the UK late 90s. Went there last year. I heard very few ppl speak English...@@PavSZ
@@HEsounds not true
This video needed to be longer with more testing, especially with human subjects.
I'll be doing a follow up video about it soon
I think it isn't the best solution to have sensor and motor in the same housing. Big advantage of the DJI, even dealbraker for most who are using matt boxes and other accessories. It just doesnt make sense. Imagine those long lenses like Fujinon, like you said in your comment, they will totally pertrude the vision on the right side of the lidar. I dont get why they did it that way instead of beeing able to have a little bit of play idk even a 30cm cable would be sufficient. 😐
Yes agreed, also the motor position can change when changing lenses, so it would need to stay in the same place for it to work well.
yes, that's a problem with it.
I have used it with a sets of cinema lenses that were the right size for it and not much of obstructing of the Lidar.
It's not universal for all, for sure but if you film yourself or need that autofocus when filming from the gimbal, you need to use the right lens for it and you'll make it work.
It would be good if the Lidar was separate but then someone would hate it as you would have to have the camera in the cage or rig to use it. Now you can attach it to the camera's hot shoe without the need for a cage. It's all contained in one device.
It's not perfect but I think it is OK overall - It makes it possible to auto focus when it was not possible at all before
Get to the chopper!!!! 😂😂😂
wrong accent, wrong country and a little bit offensive
Would this this be useful for photography?
it would be possible but it's not meant for that
@@PavSZ The possibility is all I needed to hear😂
why wont you let us see the background
top secret 😉
I think characterizing this as a "gamechanger" is a bit much. Seems to work ok in pretty narrow circumstances- on a lens where the focus ring happens to be fairly far forward, with no mattebox or hood, and shooting a composition with no foregroumd elements- but outside of those situations it's not going to fare well.
It is a gamechanger for me.
You are right, it has got these limitations but I do not use manual lenses to film myself with at all as I not only have to be completely still (and not be able to get out of the frame and come back easily) but also not be able to show anything to the camera. It's all great when I have someone filming me but this is impossible on my own. This makes it possible and for that reason alone, it is a game changer.
It will not work well with every lens or matt box but it does work when used right under right conditions
Thanks for this, but it appears your eyes are out of focus on most shots
They are? I'm sure i could get eyes sharper manually focusing but I can't do it when filming myself
I've pre-ordered one and have considered this limitation. It will probably focus on the nose instead of eyes because it's closer. It may be an issue with wide open apertures and at close distance. But I also have 200 manual focus lenses and an 18 month old son that won't hold still for a second. I understand the devices limitations and am still excited to use it. I'll use a lens hood instead of matte box. No big deal.
I guess this wouldnt work with a matte box on 😅
it needs to have a clear line of sight
first comment 🎉
🎉 WooHoo!
But you also proved setting it up might be an issue and precision is depending as much on your calibration as precision of astrophotography equatorial mounts, its nearly 100% depending on on the calibration how precise the stuff will work.
As long it doesnt have multiple modes, probably even visual + lidar + ai combined, and it probably should cost less, i wont buy such a thing. Autofocus is pretty decent nowadays, no lidar needed i guess
This technology is geared towards cinema lenses - which do not have autofocus.
@@Eyeofkamau still it doesnt make much sense especially since modern autofocus systems can control autofocus very smooth and precise.
„Cine“ lenses… i bet you guys believe even in „cinematic“ tips on the internet?
@@harrison00xXx I think I either misinterpreted your initial message or you may be confusing things. What do you mean way you say “modern autofocus systems”? Because this Lidar is a modern AF system.
Please leave out the childish remarks too, if you can. I’m here to have a normal conversation with another human being, not to speak down on one another.
I know this, as a cinematographer myself, and as that has had my fair share in the film industry. The vast majority of Cinema Lenses do not have AF capability, while Still lenses do - this Lidar system is designed to bring the luxury of AF to Cinema lenses for those that are looking to have it.
@@Eyeofkamau as long this system doesnt even have presets to set manually where to and how fast it is focussed, its a overpriced gimmick
@@Eyeofkamau i have only a little experience with autofocus systems for telescopes but even they are more advanced than this lidar autofocus system despite serving an extremely simple usecase
The website you list wont take my card, stating the website as suspicious due to previous people getting scamed. That's what paypal told me. Anyone order from the site with success?
it's a manufacturer website. I just tried it and I get all the way to the checkout OK.
I'll contact them to ask about it. It should work ok
@@PavSZI was able to resolve. Was a PayPal thing.
@@errol3184 I'm glad! thank you
BIG FAIL - how do you mount a matte box without blocking the lidar sensor. Notice there are no videos with an MB. Earth to PD Movie - if you use filters, you use matte boxes.
I have never used matte box and I do use filters. Matte boxes are overrated and only add unnecessary weight to the rig in my opinion.
I have seen people mounting it over the mattbox, from the top and make it still work. I guess it will hugely depend on the lens that you are using. Bigger the better here
@@PavSZ Depends on the work you do. Sometimes you (or client) don't want flare, or you need to swap filters faster than screwing them on, or are not into vignetting.
If it was closer to $100 it would be good but $500 for something a lot of us are already good at, doesn't seem worth it.
no matter how good you are at manually focusing, you can't focus on yourself when you are filming yourself and you want to show a product closer to the camera. This is perfect for that. For me, personally, it is worth every penny
500 to get a half decent focus puller? Expencive, well... Now... I dont't know about that...
Acquired taste, is how I look at it
A wireless follow focus is several $100 for decent. Then you add wireless video, and you know, a whole other person. $500 for something that gives you the functionality is a pretty good deal actually. Especially when that device includes the wireless follow focus that would be at least $200 for a crummy one.
Fact checked myself. The Tilta Nucleus Nano 2 is currently $260 on amazon, this includes that functionality but adds lidar. That’s a win…
Its great but I cant buy it from Vietnam. 😂😂😂 so sad!!!
🙁
My camera is $499, i am not spending $500 for that thing mr PAV.
Post a video when you find one for 50 bucks.
This device is obviously not for you.
It is for people who want or have to use manual lenses and need to film themselves for example. This allows them to move freely, show things to the camera and most importantly do it by themselves.
It is also a game changer for those who film with cinema or vintage lenses on gimbal by themselves. You can change the distance between you and your subject easily and have everything in focus without doing 20 takes and try to do it manually. If you do this professionally, $500 is a very small price to pay for convenience and the time you are going to save.
Awesome but haha $500.. NOT that hard to manual focus.
try manually focus by yourself on someone when filming on a gimbal and walking while changing the distance between you and the subject all the time 😉
Also manually focusing is not really practical when you film yourself by yourself - this is when this comes in
It's a sponsored video.
You have to say it from the beginning buddy.
It is not sponsored video. I was not paid or asked to say anything specific about it and I bought it with my own money