Calibers, Weights & Velocities
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Randy talks about the strengths and weaknesses of different calibers, bullet weights and velocities to expect, and how this applies to the area of big game hunting. Always, proper shot placement, at proper distances. No sniping, please.
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Knowledge given by this ,Man.worth million
I have been in love with Barnes bullets for the last 12 years. I suffered a failure to expand with a 140 PSP core-lokt on a 150 yard shot and a total fragmentation with a 139gr hornady SST with a 45 yard shot with a .280 Remington. I recovered both deer due to extreme luck and diligence. The former was a small doe and the latter was a 225# buck. It made me really dig into bullets construction and impact velocities all those years ago. I decided on Barnes due to little to no risk of failure at 5 yds or 250 yds. At least 36 animals later zero problems. I Everything I have found in my studying is reiterated by the Real Gun Smith. Love this guy. I try to tell my peers this stuff and they look at me like I am crazy because they just don't understand the physics. It is crazy to me how the pendulum always swings. We went from the short magnum craze in the 2000's to the complete opposite today. How do people get to where they do in the industry with so little experience is beyond me. The sheep always listen too. At least until they wound enough game to make them rethink things.
We are where we are now, with this 6.5 CM craze, for big game hunting, because MOST young males these days are wussies. Replace that W for a P and you have the REAL TRUTH. I know a few, I tell them they are embarrassing. They think a .308 Winchester, withouta brake, is an elephant gun. They can't take recoil!
Should have used the 150 grain partition bullets.
So the sst is no good? Kinda what I been thinking but I’m at least using them for target cuz the partition cost so much more. For a reason I’m assuming lol
@servicedogojokeguys2967 This video is catered towards individuals that can hit a bail of hay at 400 yards. Next try a video for those that can hit a baseball at 400 yards, then another video for those that can hit a golf ball at 400 yards, and last for the very few that can kiss a marble at 400 yards, or any distance for that matter. I trailed wounded animals for Parks & Wildlife with my bloodhounds for decades. Most animals are wounded due to the hunter not being able to shoot their way out of a phone booth or severely suffering from Buck Fever, Doe fever, hog Fever, javelina fever or RUclips fever. Live long and prosper my friends.
Thanks for another great informative video Randy. You've just convinced me again to stick with my 30-06 . 165gr sst handloading, whitetails, mulies, elk and moose, 350yds or less as you say, right in the armpit. Know guessing, 100% confidence, clean and ethical. Thanks again.
30-06 is the goat!
The 30-06 is never a bad choice!
Hey Randy it’s always great to hear from you
You know Randy will share the good stuff...no fuss...
I will use my 300 win mag 180 grain and proper placement. It does its job well for many years.
Thank you Randy for sharing this very important information with all of us !!!
May our Heavenly Father bless you and Kathy !!!
Randy, thanks for sharing all the information and knowledge you have gained thru all the decades of your experience in hunting. You are a true gentleman and your knowledge is appreciated. You Sir are the real deal.
Thank you for taking time out of your schedule to share your wealth of knowledge with all of us.
Thanks for sharing your insight and knowledge. I agree that velocity and proper bullets take game effectively and humanly.
About time someone with some sense talks about the 6.5 NEED MORE. Everyone I talk to, I say the same thing. It doesn't have enough velocity without velocity you loose energy. And the 6.5 Need More just doesn't do it. But they did a great job marketing that cartridge!!!
Like you I am a .257 fan. First high powered rifle I had was a .257 Robert's in a ruger #1. At 9 10 years old I packed that thing with me everywhere. I now own a 25 wssm. I wish that had the marketing the 6.5 Need More had and still has. I think it would have been more of a success. Anyway I enjoy listening to you. And have agreed with you 100% . I also believe a lot of people over look the .257 cartridges. Sadly.
But thank you
I Truly enjoy you videos on calibers, Bullets and hunting ballistics.
Deer & hogs are the biggest critters I have to deal with and at ranges under 100 yards 95% of the time, the 223 and 30-30 either can do anything I need & I'm grateful for that
frank buck in Africa killed everything with a 30 06 back in the day , randy is right shot placement is EVERYTHING thanks again
Most of my 6.5 CM’s have been for target shooting. I have killed many deer with the CM, 260 rem, and 6.5x55 though. I live in the south so 300 yards is a rare poke though I’ve had some. Most of my 88 whitetails I’ve harvested have been between powder burn range to 200 yards 🤣. I did have a wicked little load in a 6.5 CM with Barnes 120 TTSX at 2940 fps that performed excellent for me. The 260 rem was very effective with 120 nosler BT. Last couple years I’ve only used the 9.3x62, a 416 Taylor improved, and 416 Remington on whitetail. I will say they are pretty viscous on those 30 yard shoulder shots. If I were to go on a elk hunt today I would carry my model 70 safari in 416 Remington. Loaded with woodleigh 340 pp at right at 2700 fps. I’m a long range target shooter, but not a long range hunter I like to be close.
I got me a bargara B 14 hunter in 6.5 creedmoor 4 years ago. I shoot Hornady eldx 143 gn. For white tails I’ve taken 5 bucks with it one neck shot and 4 high shoulder shots all went straight down a few kicks and it was all over all shot under 200 yards I’m totally happy with my 6.5 creedmoor and I’ve taken deer for 60 yrs. Using many different calibers. Shot placement is everything period
Randy, your spite for the 6.5 Creedmoor never ceases to make me crack a smile. The biggest problem I hear is the thought process, if the bullet is in the correct diameter, then it can be used to hunt with. Yes, it can, but that doesn't mean it's made to be hunted with out of your 6.5 Creedmoor. Maybe, it is meant to be used in a 6.5-300 or a 6.5-284, or if you're going to shoot something with that 153gn bullet at a deer, then don't do it outside of 75-100 yds max. Past that and the velocity drops off pretty fast. The 147 ELD-M for example, drops to 2500-2550 at 100 yds from a muzzle vel of 2750 out of my match rifle with a 26" heavy barrel at 7.5 twists. The 153.5 is down to 2450-2500 at 100yds.
What speed do you imagine these bullets need to have to dispatch game effectively???
Thanks Randy for what you do. Watching you is like watching my father if his life went the way he wanted instead of the way his father wanted. My father shot his first deer with a 250 Savage, so late in his life he had a local legend (Sam Adams) build him a Remington Model 600 Mohawk in 250 Savage for him. Today I have that gun, and a friend and I reload for it with 80 gr Barnes TTSX bullets. It is a 1/4 moa gun and those little solid copper pills are pumping out around 3200 fps. I say it is the perfect rifle. I won't ever be sitting a Creedmoor in the safe beside it.
The only 6.5 x55 that I have ever seen brand new was at Oshmans Sporting Goods in El Paso Texas, and it was a Ruger 77, walnut stock in 85 and it didn't have a cheek piece and 24 inch barrel. I remember it was between the 25-06 and the 270 winchester. The only Ruger I seen at the end of the Ruger section was The 338 winchester magnum which came complete 24 inch barrel.
I bought that Rifle and absolutely wondered why anybody would carry anything else. Very well balanced Rifle for anything using Handloaded 200 grain Speer Hotcore bullets. Sighted dead on at 200 yards, and only drops 30 inches at 500 yards, and you eat right up to the bullet holes that doesn't bloodshot no meat whatsoever! I have never seen anything like it! You'll never catch me hunting in Grizzly country without it. It's that damn good.
I agree that the solid copper bullets expand best with at least 2300 FPS terminal velocity, but that’s where the quicker expanding lead core bullets can still perform beyond them when the velocities fall to @1800 FPS, thereby extending the terminal range of the short action cartridges to match the long action cartridges. There is a place for the lead core bullet- Between 2500 and 1800 FPS.
Lots of cartridges push lead core bullets well beyond 2500 FPS and they don’t perform any less good
As always, Randy is absolutely right! Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge and experience. Many hunters should follow your advice! God bless you sir.
I've watched this about 5 times because it is so true! Randy keep taking us to school!
Most of the deer, black bear and moose I've gotten were at "30-30 type" distances... I've also gotten those with a 30-06. Generally with a 180gr partition PPT / semi spritzer with the heavier nose profile. That's been a great bullet for shots under 150-160 yards. O.361 B.C. & 0.271 S.D.
the 6.5 creedmoor is a 200 yard gun at best with a 140 gr Hornady interlock as I found out last fall in the antlerless portion of Missouri fire arm season.the bullet will not expand at 275 yards shooting 2690 fps at the muzzle.
What happens when you go to a 120gr bullet an up the velocity?
Why not use the 127 inter bond or sst @2950? Or 120gmx @3010? Not to mention the 140 inter bond even @ 2700 has the proper energy and expansion speed out past 400 yards according to manufacturers published data still moving @2100 fps with almost 1500ftlb of energy...
Sounds more like a trigger actuator problem
I thought a gun fired birdshot or artillery shells.
That is very true ! For a few years in the 1960’s I used a custom build 6mm for mostly deer but only two elk , both were head shots ! Fine flat shooting ctg but it’s not a elk Ctg !!
Sounds like it is an elk cartridge though
I think you hit the nail on the head, but even though some fast cartridges can do the job, many shooters however cannot hit reliably even at close range with their rifles. Too many green guys buy rifles in these fast calibers nowadays, shoot a few rounds at the range and think thereafter they can take potshots at anything that has an open season up to 1000 yards. Sure if conditions are good and one is very familiar with the capability of the rifle a somewhat longer shot can be taken. That should however be the exception and not the rule. Hunting is about getting close and placing a reliable kill shot. We were brought up with respect for the wildlife and long range shooting is fun but should be limited to paper targets.
😁 No Thanks, no 6mm or 6.5 for me, I'll stay with my beloved 270 Winchester! 😉 But, if you haven't tried the Swift A-Frame bullet (at reasonable hunting distances, of course), they are worth your time! They make a picture perfect mushroom and stay in one piece, as they drive clean through the elk! 🤑 I am Very Happy with their performance too! 😁 They are one reliable and tough bullet! 🤯
Where are you getting your Swift bullets? I never see them in stock.
You are correct! I have run out of the A-Frame's! I only have found Sirocco 2's in my caliber, at Bob Ward and Son's Sporting Goods Store! 🤷♂️
I like the 120g for hunting with the creedmoor, getting approaching 3000fps. It’ll always be a fairly short range big game cartridge, regardless of bullet weight. It’s so similar to the 7mm-08 it’s almost ridiculous. I like it though.
I think of my 6.5CM as a 6.5-08. I love it on deer with a 140 grain (ish) hunting bullet.
I'm going to test 150 accubonds put of 20 inch proof gas gun. Velocity will be 2550-2590
@@tylarhaugan7908 Should be a fine long range paper puncher.
@Master deBater tested on elk at 267 yards Shoulder shot. Passed threw shoulder and was bulging on hide. Never chrono gun but I'm running max charge Of h4350 Elk dropped. 6.5 creed don't care for it its a fine elk cartridge people just needs to know shot placement and remaining velocity. 6.5x55 has been killing moose in Europe for to many years to count
@Master deBater on my 7.7 pound 20 inch Tikka in 300 winmag is my go to hunting rifle need to swap to 20 inch 1 in 9 twist barrel 1 in 11 is lame. Tikka barrel super accurate they are generally slow I'm about to swap my 308 barrel to 7mm08 Ackley but do 22 inch
Randy, I have a 6.5mm Creedmoor and I like it. But the damn thing doesn't cure cancer! Sure it's a nice accurate round but it doesn't fit the bill for my deer shots around Central Texas. On average my deer shots are just a bit beyond the range (but not by much). So it stays home every year in favor of me taking my 270 Win. For the distances and my local deer size, it is a better fit for me and people I know disagree. I don't care, I drop every deer, every time. I don't like trying to fix what isn't broken and I'm not into hunting the same deer twice. My 270 does its job without me having to hike around, wondering where my deer is! Thanks for another great video.
I run the 6.5 Creed with125grn nosler partition at about 3000fps, the 129IL Hornady at at 2950fps average,and I run the Sierra 130grn hpgk at 2900fps with good powder like Reloader 17.
It has a 22 inch barrel and gives just over 1000 pounds at five hundred yards which is plenty of energy for deer sized game but I very rarely shoot them at that range,when it comes to game over mule deer, I use the 300win. GOD BLESS.
The 270 win. Firing a good 130 gr. Bullet is what I have been using in reloaded ammo. It's got what it takes to dump a Big Deer at 500 yds.
Very well said sir. The only thing I would add is be careful with those speeds and closer range shots. I have found excessive meat loss when impact velocities are over 3000fps. If you hit a deer inside 100 yds with 6.5-300 wby you will destroy a large part of your dinner. I have found impact velocity between 2400-2800 idea on deer. I have no experience on larger game. Very curious if you or others have found similar results.
You are absolutely right, I also have better results with my 7mm and 6.5mm downloaded to 2600 ft, but then again I shoot my deer and moose at close range. Most of my game including many, driven, fast running wild boars, were shot within 100 yards. Long range shooting is okay on paper targets but should not be promoted on our wildlife.
I started out 45 yrs ago with a .303 British. I killed aprox 25 big bodied deer
(Saskatchewan). The 150 gr. Bullets always left a hardball sized wound...always out the other side...never lost an animal.i then got hooked on the magnums ,went out and bought a .300 wby.
The bullets went so fast that game under 250yds.
Would only have a small wound channel, AND I lost 2 deer with that rifle.i shot a big bull elk across a river 300 or so yds, all the 180 gr way bullet did was put a 2 inch hole through both lungs...I did get the elk but not before he swam that river and back.
I sold that wby. 300 mag.
I'm 62 now...I'm back to shooting rifles in that 2800 fps range with a lot less recoil and WAY better controlled expansion bullets.
I will be clear, the .300 wby mag was used BEFORE the better bullets came onto the market.for the range I shoot most of my game (50-200yds) that ole
303 was the ticket. I bought a few husqvarna rifles with zero miles on them in 30,06 , 243, 22,250 7mm mag. ...I'm a happy camper
@@roonbooks1418 You need a very tough bullet with these hot rounds, that is why even Nosler produced Partition Golds. The softer regular partition often ripped apart the whole front end and the remainder worked like a Wad Cutter Full Metal projectile. Over the years I have killed two moose that had old wounds with remainders of extremely mushroomed .30 caliber projectiles (likely high speed cartridges) in the front leg muscle. Target style bullets either get stuck or come totally apart at these extreme speeds and proper bullet selection is by far more crucial than in slower more traditional rounds. In the hands of a responsible hunter and hand loader every round can be tailored to the task. The bad thing is, that many people think, influenced by the media, BIGGER IS BETTER!😉
Thank you Sir I highly appreciate your informative video's.
Please give us you views on the .243 and wat the best wight bullets and velosities is for the .243.
I think Randy is missing the point of the mid sized 6.5mms, I don't own a Creedmoor and never have but I have been a fan of the 6.5x55 for over thirty years and have taken plenty of heads of game with it. Sure there are people that think that high BC bullets means it can take down elk at 1,500 yards but those people are what I call insane, but what a 6.5x55 or 260 or 6.5CM are good for is a very practical real world deer rifle, low recoil, good effective range, and tend to be very accurate, sure they don't hit at 3,300fps but that is a good thing because it means less gunshot meat and you don't need high dollar premium bullets to keep your bullets from blowing up on impact. Think of all the added costs of using a .257 Wby vs a mild 6.5mm, ammo costs four times as much or more, last time I bought factory ammo for my 6.5x55 it was $13 a box. Barrel life, a .257 Wby won't hold up to a thousand rounds while a mild 6.5mm will hold up to four or five times that. Even if you do reload your own brass the component cost of the .257 is vastly more especially when you factor in proprietary brass, 50-60% more powder, and high dollar premium bullets because good ol Hotcores and interlocks will not hold up to the impact speeds. What does all that extra cost get you? 50 yards more effective range, yep 50 no kidding comparing max loads in both using 140gr vs 120gr Partitions both having to hold over 1,000fpe and 1,800fps to be effective the 132 year old 6.5x55 only gives up only 50 yards to the Weatherby Magnum, and that maximum range is 550 yards further than I have ever shot a deer or even wanted to even with my belted magnums. Would a .257 Wby kill more effectively than my little gun? Well if you want to beat my kill rate you would have to shoot through two or three at a time because everything I have shot with the 6.5 has been a one hit kill and most don't make it more than a few feet from where they were shot so if a wiz bang magnum can beat that in some way please tell me all about it.
You are right! (But I still love the 257 Weatherby!)
@@hinterseerherold And that is completely fine, I love having a cartridge that I have absolute confidence in and you should have one as well. I have hunted long enough to know that there are a million different situations that might call for a thousand different solutions and I have zero doubt that the 257 Wby is one of those solutions, if it is working for you and you don't mind the costs then keep rolling with what you got, just don't talk $#!^ about the solution that I have been working with for decades because I promise you it works for all the situations that I encounter, at leased all of them that involve deer.
@@lukethibodaux790 I like all cartridges (but of course I have favorites). Each and every one is perfect for certain applications.
I've got a 6.5 Creedmoor & will shoot against ANY STOCK gun/Round FACTORY LOAD up to 500 yards at a 6" target for any amount necessary
I don’t think he realizes that there are a lot more people shooting weatherby mags and RUMs that can’t put 3 rounds in their windshield at 100 yards because they’re shooting with their eyes closed than there are trying to shoot a CM at game 1000 yards away
a wise old timer told me some thing i havent forgotten, and i think it might apply here. you cant fix stupid, but keep up the good work. you will be blessed, and you to cathy
My 25-06 and 257 Weatherby both use the 117 gr. Interlocks and 120 gr. Partitions handloaded for whitetail, wild hogs, coyotes, and mule deer in Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado. Never had to chase nothing period. Killed a couple coyotes only 250 yards from the house in the draw with the 25-06 during last deer season.
7mm fan boy myself.
LOL 😆
Bullet used and shot placement is everything.
Haven't touched that copper yet.
Poor man's partitions for me.
Speer grand slam
Speer hot cor
Those are the poor man's hunting bullet ,for the price,available,and performance there worth every penny.
Great bullets, my 7 mag sure likes Grand Slams
I use Barnes Vortx 150gr for my 30-06. The Bear I got last year did not like it. That bullet does 1/2” groups at 100 yards out of my Tikka T3x lite roughtech with ember stock.
My 257 Weatherby loaded with the 117 gr. Sierra pro Hunter bullets or 120 gr. Partitions only has a one inch difference in groups at 100 yards.
The Partitions hits dead on and the pro Hunters hit exactly one inch high. That gun has earned its name as I have named it Roy, as it was his favorite, because it's a bolt of lightning 🌩. It has never let me down, not once.
As a relative newcomer to the rifle game (lifelong bowhunter) I am not understanding why someone would want all the work of turrets and dope charts, when you can just shoot lasers like the 257wby with brainless accuracy to 500 yards.
As with clothing industry, there is a big element of fashion involved. "Latest greatest effect"
Because I have been properly trained and know how to run my turrets and hitting somewhere in a 8, 10 or 12” circle isn’t good enough I want as close to center as possible.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣, your observation is right on.
Unfortunately, people are rarely satisfied. I guess that's why guys get married for a second or third time.
Because people are idiots.
Literally no different trajectory than .243 Win, but shoot your overbore inefficient cartridges if it makes you happy, hipster.
Shot a good sized whitetail buck with the 101gr LRX. Muzzle velocity was around 3050fps and the buck crossed in front of me around 30 yards. The bullet made am.257 entrance hole in between the first rib set bedhind the shoulder with a 25 cal exit hole. The heart was liquified and not damage to any other organs. Now that bullet showed no signs of expandsion and a couple days later had the same experience on a doe. Couldn’t use or buy other ammo cause I was on leave and 257 Roberts isn’t exactly filling the shelf’s. The 100gr TSX works wonderfully! I’m just really Leary of the LRX line.
Thanks for your input on this all of your videos are of great use and touch on the ethical issues of our time. Thanks Randy. I have a question that pertains to elk hunting. More specifically, scouting. When is a good time to begin scouting for an antlerless elk hunt on public land over the Thanksgiving holiday?
Your knowledge and experience of rifles and ammunition is envied by many of us. Thank you for sharing. I would like to get your opinion on federal assent bullets for close out to 300 yd max 270win 136 grain. I'm from the southeast, might have bought wrong caliber and rifle. Winchester model 70 featherweight (22 inch barrel).
Thanks Randy.
Always enjoy your considered opinion and experience.
Do you ever shoot smaller caliber? 17, 20, 224.
As a fox hunter, these are my interest..
Though..I guess...same rules apply..
22-50 is the king
@@chrisloveridge627 how's that on skins...I often save skins ..
6.5 Creedmoor Hornady 143 gr ELD-X works great on Michigan Whitetail at 200yrds. I would not attempt any larger game with this caliber. Double Lung shot at 200 yrds dropped a 185 lb 8 point last year.
It will work on elk too with proper shot placement people just love to hate on the Creedmoor ..is it the best no at nothing but it does most things ok the right bullet and placement is what matters the most
This gentleman isn't putting any hate on the 6.5 Creedmoor. He's educating people that use this caliber to hunt with, that they are using this caliber to hunt game with out at distances beyond it capabilities in a humane and ethical way to harvest and animal. This talk about bullet placement at distances 3 to 400 yards with the 6.5 is pure selfish and inhumane to risk harvesting an animal, and it suffering a horrible agonizing death. I could harvest a white tail deer at 75 yards with a .22lr but that's not how a real hunter harvest a animal. It's TOTALLY IN- HUMANE!!
6.5 eldx is a fine short to medium range elk bullet. My son has killed 2 elk with his, they dropped fast with no track job.
@@ronfillmore5735 bows are as equally inhumane but some argue it’s the only way to be a “true hunter” your argument doesn’t hold a lot of water here
@@DuoBart0n well the same could be said about trapping and using snares aswell. I just feel with all the choices we have today to harvest an animal today, l just don't see why someone would choose to use a weapon to harvest an animal and have it die a painful slow death for hunting and l should be clear the water here, if it was a life and death situation and your in the woods trying to survive l would use any means necessary. But let's not get off topic here and stay on point.
Terrific information. Thank you.
Oh man would I love to hear a talk on 358 calibers
A relation of mines great uncle took two different moose with his 250-3000 savage, very neat rifle.
Great Show Randy.
You can kill an elephant with a .22LR if you place the bullet in the right spot. It doesn't mean that it's a preffered calibre for that purpose.
I also have a somewhat distasteful feeling with the 6.5 CM, yet, I am not oblivious to it's capabilities and performance. The 6.5x55 Swede has been killing big game in Europe for more than 100 years. The 6.5 CM is just a modern, more efficient version of it's older relative.
The question you should be asking is: How well/ comfortable can a person shoot a certain calibre/ cartridge?
If a 30-06 is considered too heavy recoil for the next shooter, it doesn't mean they're a crappy shooter. It means they can shoot a 6.5 calibre equally well as a person shooting a 30-06. And within reasonable/ acceptable hunting distances, the animal will never know the difference if it has been killed with a smaller or larger calibre.
Older generations tend to screw with modern cartridges because they don't accept change or a difference in opinion very well. It's a mental approach. A 6.5 CM will equally kill a bull moose at 100 yards as a .375 H&H if it's put in the right spot.
One man's opinion is not the solution the everyone's needs, nor is one man's solution fit for everyone's problems. I hope the older generations start learning that phrase very fast, because a "yes sir, no questions asked" mentality is what brought us here where we are today.
What a load of bs. I’ve shot a ton of game up here in northern Canada. The largest bodied WT and mule deer to large bull elk and moose. Over the years I’ve shot them all with everything from a .243 win to a 338 win mag. I’ve noticed lil to no difference on kills of game such as moose out to 350 yards with the 25-06, 6.5x55, 270, 7mm08 & 7x57, 06, 300mag, or the 338win mag Shots are not just behind the shoulder either. The last large bull moose I shot was with a 24” barrelled 6.5 Swede and factory loaded 140gr Accubonds doing 2650 FPS at 350 yards. Shot was just inside the front shoulder with him facing me. The bullet broke the right front shoulder, eviscerated both lungs, went through the liver, through the guts, and exited the rear hip. The bull died right there. No 25-06 with 120s doing 3300fps would have done any better. Bullets weighing 115/120 - 180grains doing anywhere from 2600-3000fps all work just fine out to 300 - 350 yards. Pick the right bullet and shoot it above The minimum required expansion velocity and you will be fine.
6.5 300 wby mag, 26 nosler are the big sticks in this category
Velocity does kill I shoot hogs in Texas with my 22-250 with 60 grain nosler partitions and it's a one shot wonder on hogs up to 180lbs. Even shoulder shot they drop instantly.
True but energy can come from speed or mass. My 450 Bushmaster isn't good for long range anything, but is simply devastating under 150 yards. That big bullet leaves two big holes in game.
350 no further for me…and I base my distance on velocity (2200fps) by using my ballistic app, thanks for teaching us, no w I don’t feel so foolish in doing so.
Look, it’s another video from the cult of Randy Selby, and all of his minions who applaud in the comment section. Once again, Randy knows more than all the engineers at Hornady combined. This is a channel dedicated to people who can’t hunt.
So true . Randy has a love hate relations with the 6.5 and Hornady. He hates them both and it's all he can talk about . 8 come here for entertainment value. Love how everyone agrees with what ever he says . Not many real hunters here . They think you need a 338 Lapua Magnum for every hunt . Everyone hunts in different circumstances. Not everyone lives in Montana good lord .
If this troubles you stop watching it. No need to degrade people who do like it.
@@dpwhitaker7088 just tellin the truth. Randy hates hornady, hate to see people get sucked into his drama.
@@itsmisterbojangles I have no problem with you disagreeing with Randy but please don’t make the assumption that people that follow him aren’t hunters.
By this argument, my 6mm Remington shooting a 58 grain V max at 3700 fps, is a better "killer" than if I were to use a Berger 108 Grain Elite Hunter at 2800 fps?
Hrmmm.
No,go with 80 gr ttsx at 3450 and that is it.
@@goranmalnar5172 Yes, but at 1000+ yards, the 108 wins ; )
@@j.t.patton7820 I think that 6mm is good caliber but not 1000 yard caliber,maybe for target shooting and ther is no need for energy calculations,for hunting is not sutable for sure at this distances. Only my opinion.
@@goranmalnar5172 I agree with your "Ethical Hunting Range" but then that is contingent on what the quarry is ; )
The 108 Berger stays supersonic past 1400 yards.
@@j.t.patton7820 👍
6.5CM is bought by a lot of people who do purely want a target cartridge. The mistake, IMO is thinking it's an elk cartridge at 650 yards, or any game cartridge beyond about 200 or so yards. I've personally introduced some people to the longest shots they've ever made with it - or ever will make. Back to the safe it goes, and it'll never hunt. Ever. Yes - I already know that apparently everyone and their brother's taken huge game from the other side of the valley with it. So be it.
It's interesting to me that 308 and 7mm-08 also have these things in common. If you want velocity, you drop bullet weight away from higher BC. When that happens, you lose velocity at range. In theory 7mm-08 would have good reach with a slick 162gr projectile - but the velocity isn't there.
A lot of us, though will never see elk or antelope in the field. Instead - a pig or white-tailed deer at 125 yards or less yards is most likely. I don't think it can be argued that a well-constructed bullet, in the near-upper end of the caliber's velocity range will be effective at this range.
For 6.5 CM and it's 140gr target bullet, the BC helps it retain the velocity it does have without being a barrel burner. None of those are hunting considerations. There's no point saying you need "x" velocity as someone will always argue it. Also - as you go up to the medium, and especially the big bores the landscape does change. You won't see launch velocities of 3450 fps in a 416 or even a 375. The shots also are typically taken at short range.
The only 6.5 that I would ever want would be the 6.5-06, just because I have never doubted my 25/06 using 117- 120 grain interlocks and partitions. Maybe this is why the 6.5-06 never really took off like it should have, or the 270-06 really did do it in.
I have a Savage model 111 chambered in 25-06. I shoot 85gr and 100gr ballistic tips through it. My 300 Winchester i shoot Nosler Accubonds. My 25-06 has never had a factory round shot through it and it never will if I can do something about it
Well said sir .
Yep! Shame how many times you have to state it isn’t it? It’s NOT the BC, it’s shot placement, bullet construction and velocity. They need to go find some 25-06 rifles off the used rack at the pawn shop, and they will start to see a multi purpose cartridge. It can shoot varmints, deer, and is excellent bench rest for range fun, let the barrel cool between shots but still fun
Good evening sir, what do you think of the new 7mmPRC, probably a new flash in the pan as my opinion.
It does nothing more than the ones we have had for years.
Thanks for watching!
I’ve been waiting for this video
I have a 6.5c.m. and you have got me to the point where I don't want to use it on anything but varmints because I don't want to take the course of not making a good clean kill . Guess I will have to go back to my .308 .. never had any problems with it never lost a deer with it. Guess I have a ground hog rifle now. Thank you again for opening my eyes and learning me something that I had was misinformation on what it could do. Always listen to the one who has been there and don it and has the bumps to show for it. God bless and keep us informed.
No think again it’s not fast enough according to Randy’s distorted information
@@danel5611 what do you think about this I don't understand what you mean by distorted information
@@rogernichols9987 Randy makes it sound as if you need 3000 FPS or more to get the job done on big game.
A question for the more well informed hunters of pronghorn and mule deer, is a 30-06 SPR. 150 gr. Nosler Partition at 2850-2900 FPS an appropriate choice for an ethical kill between 200-400y?
It's not my personal experience but I bought my mec marksman single stage press from a reloading supplier based outside of Calgary Alberta, he also owns and operates a large ranch and as it turns out, he and his wife are great fans of the 30-06 and is the caliber of choice for their hunting needs on the prairie. Talking to him sounds like they're living in a sportsman's paradise, and have opportunities to harvest moose elk monster whitetails and mulies, all on his range land. And speed goats. He said that he handloads 110gr for pronghorn, for both he and his wife's 30-06. He also said that they use the same load for whitetails, mulies and predator control. So to answer your question, I think you'll be able to harvest pronghorn with complete confidence using 150gr bullet in your 30-06. Good luck and good hunting.
Yes it is. Also look at the Barnes 130gr tsx bullets. Great velocity and hit hard.
A 6.5 CM will push a 120g bullet 3000fps. For deer at reasonable range, it is certainly more than adequate and competitive with all non-magnum cartridges he mentioned.
Better 6.5 options out there, yet, you insist on using a round designed to punch holes in paper for hunting. I guess I don't get it.
@@atomicwedgie8176the 6.5 CM was designed to be a more accurate version of the 308 and ended up the ballistic twin of the 6.5x55. It can be used for any situation those two cartridges can be used for.
@@atomicwedgie8176 the 30-30 can and has killed more North American game than any other cartridge out there. It gets shit on in every aspect at every distance by the creed yet the creed is somehow inadequate? Make it make sense.
This comment is laughable. It’s about the bullet, not the cartridge. The animal doesn’t care what the brass was designed to do. The creedmoor performs so similarly to the 308 family of cartridges that it’s a wash.
Well phi D. I can see by your comments that your a ethical hunter!! I feel bad for all if any LOL, animals u have harvested. I was taught to harvest an animal humanely and ethically!! Bring the right tool for the JOB!! And don't give me it's all about bullet placement crap!! Bullet placement has a huge part in harvesting an animal, but when your taking game with a caliber beyond it's capabilities it's totally IN-HUMANE
What are your thoughts on the 375 Ruger? In my opinion it is the most versatile global hunting cartridge on game the size impala up to Elephant. Reaching out to 500yds. It drives me crazy that it got kicked to the curb because the 6.5cm came out the same time…
It’s not so crazy when you get to looking at the market base for the 2
The .375 Ruger is very good and makes a lot of sense, but only with a muzzle brake.
Thanks for watching!
Randy I have shot whitetail deer here in pa inside 100 yards with my 6.5 creedmoor with both hornady rounds the 129 grain interlock bullet a the 140 gr precision hunter bullets and I have noticed Much quicker cleaner kills with the lighter faster interlock bullets! It’s rare I use my creedmoor for hunting! I have a custom 25/06 on a Mauser action that I can’t leave at home! lol 😂
What is your recommended minimum foot pounds of energy for shooting elk with a .308 shooting a 165-168 grain bullet?
I consider 1800 ft lbs minimum.
Thanks for watching!
Energy doesn't kill things. Holes through vital organs do.
People are hung up on how far can I snipe an animal. BC is for paper punchers. Penetration and kinetic energy kills game animals. Bullet selection is important.
^This
And bc translates to down range velocity retention which equates to more energy down range.
I guess I need a new chronograph because it says my 140gr 6.5 cm is running at 2930fps.
Lol. You definitely need a new chronograph.
Yeah you definitely need a new chronograph. My rem 700 I built with a 26"match barrel runs 147gr Eld's at 2700fps in that long tube!
The 6.5 creedmoor shines once you get out past 500 and Hornady makes great bullets. It will definitely kill deer 300-400yds
At 500yds it's going 2081pfs and has 1414 ftlbs energy plenty for a deer and at 300-400 plenty for elk with proper projectiles.
Now I'd still rather use my 3006ackly and 178gr Eldx but the cm is capable but so are many othrrs
My 6.5 Creedmoor with a 140 hunting bullet is a 300 yard deerslayer. No more no less. It kills paper as good as any much further.
I though BC stood for Bullet Cillingpower? 😱. I’ve got some 150 mono Badlands bulldozer bullets coming for my 300 wsm. Hopefully I can get them going about 3300 fps for my D7 mule deer hunt this September. The 150’s aren’t sacrificing much if anything on energy, are much faster, drop significantly less and have less wind drift out to 600 yards in comparison to the 175’s at 3100 I was shooting.
I was able to get a rifle scope combo for 400 bucks in 6.5 Needmore, with barnes tsx bullets I plan on taking eastern whitetails under 150 yards, would never take a shot on anything further , even at the 6.5 best it's still a 400 yd max deer gun
Agreed because 1700ftlbs of energy is the absolute minimum for killing deer.
@@danel5611 where’s you come up with that asinine number? A 44mag doesn’t have that energy at the muzzle and yet I’ve killed 15 deer with one at 120 yards. 22-250 has that at the muzzle yet it stops deer in their tracks out to 150. Deer are not that hard to kill.
@@DuoBart0n it’s called sarcasm sir. The 1700ftlbs is the energy I have with my load out of my rifle chambered in 6.5CM at 400yds.
I don’t have a 6.5 Creedmore, I don’t consider it a serious cartridge. I do, however, have a couple of 6.5x57s, 6.5x55s, and a couple of .256 Newtons, custom built by me. The one with a 1:10 twist, as Charles Newton originally intended, will push a 125gr Nosler Partitions at 3290 average FPS. I consider the 6.5 Creedmore a novelty cartridge and pretty much junk…the cartridge just doesn’t have the capacity. Great video Randy & Cathy and I hope the floods haven’t bothered you too much. God Bless.
You call the creedmoor junk and it outperforms the 6.5x55 unless you are loading the 6.5x55 well past max to match the saami pressure that the creedmoor is set to.
@@DuoBart0n 🤣🤣🤣 What are SAAMI specs? I load with the slowest burning powder that fills the case to the bottom of the seated bullet. No, actually the 6.5x55 has more capacity than the 6.5 Creedmore, cubic inches = higher velocities. Apparently you are quite a novice when it comes to reloading. You should probably stay away from guns…you might hurt yourself.
@@richardkramer1094 You agreed with me and thought you did something. Like I said when you start matching pressures the 6.5x55 passes it.
@@DuoBart0n 🤣🤣🤣 Nope! But you are going to try to convince me that a cartridge, the 6.5 Creedmore, will outperform a cartridge, the 6.5x55, that is 1/4 of an inch shorter than the latter based on some irrelevant third party recommendations when those recommendations were established on the weakest rifle for which that cartridge, the 6.5x55, was chambered? Come now son, get your nose out of the book and get out onto the range and gain some experience with handloading in well built rifles. You seem to be worshiping at the alter of a false god. Every experienced rifleman knows the 6.5x55 will outperform the 6.5 Creedmore any day, hands down no matter what some third party ideologies say for the manufacturer of commercial ammunition. SAAMI specs are simply based on recommendations and not from actual practice at the bench. Pressure is measured at the base of the cartridge, not on the action and small ring Mausers are stronger than what the ideologues at SAMMI portend. Loading manuals must comply with SAAMI specs and yet, in actual practice, the loads listed are under loaded even for the pressure recommendations of SAAMI. So son, get your nose out of the book, and the clouds, and use practical application and logic and reason, set you bias aside, and get some experience on the bench.
@@richardkramer1094 they aren’t “under what saami recommends” they are at saami spec. Which is 51k psi. Any modern action will take more than that. Hell the 742s will take more than that. Fast twist 260s have more potential than the 6.5 as well. You are again agreeing with me. Where you are wrong however is using hot rod handloads in custom rifles as your benchmark. I load for about 12 different cartridges and have been for a couple decades now. I’m well aware that there are cartridges out there that are neutered down because of either the powder tech of the time or the rifles they were marketed towards. The 35 whelen is a big one. That being said 75-80% if the hunting community don’t do that. They use factory rifles with off the shelf ammo. Factory ammo is the one of the main reasons why the creed has such a following. Using those combos the creed is the same or in some cases have the edge over the Swede. Factory Swede ammo is more than enough to kill moose in Europe but somehow our whitetail deer are bulletproof in comparison on this side of the pond when using the creed according to some people. That more than likely can’t shoot for shit. Let alone game of comparable size.
Shot placement, velocity and bullet construction. I'm not a hunter but those are my take aways.
Thanks Randy. People keep trying to re invent the wheel.
Developing these new rounds because of short action rifles to fit the aR platform
@@chrisloveridge627 False.
Randy, what is the best 35 cal bullet weight and optimal velocity? I’m speaking in 35 Whelen terms using monos like the Barnes TTSX. 180 or 200 gr? 2800-2900 FPS? Thanks and God bless.
200 gr.
Thanks for watching.
Deer cullers favourite cartridge in nz was 223
no it wasn't ,Barry Crump used a .303 ,
WHAT ABOUT 7MM. REM. WITH 120GR.BARNES COPPER BULLET?
Just fine for deer sized game.
Thanks for watching.
I just wanna know what load is available in 6mm Remington that will push a 100gr. bullet at 3400fps? Or for that matter what load could be built to those velocity levels without going beyond normal pressures? I can't find anything in many different published manuals that will safely deliver those numbers.
A 6mm-.284 will give these velocities. Contact me if you need more information, Terry.
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith Randy, I watched your video speaking about 3400fps velocities from a 6mm Remington with a 100gr. bullet, or so I thought you said 6mm Remington. I own 2 different 6mm's, have loaded for them both for years and could never get those kind of velocities running 100 gr. bullets. In your reply you mentioned those velocities are capable in 6mm/284. Well, maybe I just heard you wrong from the get go. Although I don't own a 6mm/284 I agree you probably could attain those velocities with that bullet in that cartridge. I'm sure that case is a fair amount larger in capacity. Anyway, I guess I should clean the mud outa my ears. Just thought you were referencing the 6mm Remington. Have a great day!!
Terry
Ty for making this vdo. What caliber would you think best for all around caliber. I no this has been asked for many years. So if you could have only 2 calibers what would they be. Ty
A 25-06 and a 7mm-.300 Wby.
Thanks for watching!
In my area shotgun and muzzle loader must be used except rifle for bear. A slower heavier bullet works well for average shots being 50 yards. Stops deer from making it into the woods. In rifle zones I like the 35 WCF because I have a 1895 Win and it anchors game well with a 250 gr Speer HotCor. At 2300 fps the 35 doesn’t blow up meat. I had a 7mm Rem Mag but never found deer far enough away and a close shot is like putting a needle through one and not putting it down quickly. Need the distance for the bullet to expand.
There does seem to be this over emphasis on bullet weight when it comes to rifle cartridges and especially hunting. There seems to be this overly simplified mantra that heavier=better penetration and better killing power. Not only is that only half the story but using heavier than necessary bullets almost always limits your "killing power" at closer more practical ranges because you tend to get a clean pass through or at the very least you dont get full expansion because the bullet is so heavy the expansion doesnt slow the bullet down fast enough while its still inside the target in order to open up to its full potential before it exits the other side creating a smaller exit wound less bleeding less blood trail and less hydraulic shock.
Amen brother !!
If I missed the video, my apologies. But could you slow down and explain 150 grain to 165 grain 30/30? Is it worthless as some say or does it have a place in the hunt?
Both are very good in the 30-30.
From Cathy, The Real Gunsmith's Wife: I laughed when I read "could you slow down..." as many say he talks to slow. ;)
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith Yeah probably should have said go into more detail, but definitely enjoy the information. Glad he's sharing it.
Totally agree.
Is it possible to get you to talk about the 25 wssm and the 243 wssm? I would really like to hear your thoughts on these 2 catridges.
Thank-you
Winchester discontinued these years ago because of poor design, to discussing it now would be a no starter, IMHO.
Thanks for watching.
They are PITA cartridges to work with. They work, but the super short action is very limiting. The brass varies a lot per manufacturer. They don't do anything that isn't already done by cartridges that run in a standard short action.
Randy for deer size game to 300 yards, 308 Winchester with 130 grain or 150 grain.TTSX?
I use 135gr Sierra HP at 3000 fps in my 308’s and they kill instantly
Gonna try out a new one, 6.5 rpm. Accumark with a 2.5-15 Amplus 6. Shells are hard to find got 2 boxes 127 Barnes and 1 box 140 accubond. Guess it's about 200 fps slower than the 6.5-300.
I love watching these videos purely for the entertainment of "What caliber is he shitting on this episode? Will it be the 300PRC of 6.5Creedmoor?"
Just anything hornady normally gets a mouthful 😂
@@kingy300wby I haven’t tuned in in a while, I take it he doesn’t care for Hornady bullets?
@@latorgator23 He takes a dig at 6.5 Creedmoor **again**
@@latorgator23 he doesn't understand that Hornady has simply updated older cartridges like the 308 to use more efficient designs using hig SD bullets. The 6.5CM should be compared against the 308. Not a long action cartridge or magnum.
@@texpatriot8462 any cartridge should be compared to something within its own class. I already discount anyones argument when they start trying to compare short action cartridges to long actions or long actions to magnums. Blows my mind how crazy some people get with the apples to oranges comparisons.
I have a 6.5cm.. Randy is not lying either. I'll admit that. I'll also admit that 6.5cm is a product of advertisement hype. It's a normal medium game cartridge. If you shoot deer sized game within It's maximum point blank range you'll do just fine. A lot of gun writers do mislead people, especially when it involves their beloved 6.5cm. Yes It's about shot placement, HOWEVER, you do need that bullet to perform. Where I hunt in the hills of VA you rarely get a shot past 300 yards. Plus deer weigh on average 100lb to 140lbs, which is considered big In my neck of the woods. Cartridges like .243, .257 Robert's, and 6.5 Creedmoor are king. People also like 7mm-08 and .308. I chose 6.5 Creedmoor out of necessity. Ammunition availability, it's light recoiling accurate. It will do the job out to 300 yards. In fact I personally don't believe in shooting game any further. If you hunt with a 6.5cm know your limits, know the limits of the projectiles.
is there a book from this master gunsmith
Thanks for the kind thought. I am not sure where I'd find time to write a book, and am not, really, a writer. This format is my offering to the shooting world. Cathy has considered transcribing the videos, but again, currently no time for that.
Thanks for watching.
I hunt in North Alabama. The land is wooded with a few cutovers so about 300 yards will be the longest shots with my 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm-08. I'm using Barnes 139gr LRX.
I shoot a lot of deer with the 30 30 what bullet do you recommend! Thank you great video
150 gr Hornady. Good hunting and thanks for watching.
Shot placement is everything period. I will be 73 years old in August I’ve been killing deer since I was 12 yrs. Old sometimes 3 to 4 deer a year only lost 4 in all these years pour shot placement on my part. . I’ve used many different calibers from 300 magnum to a 243. I traded some older Remington 700 in 3006 and 308 for a new bargara B14 hunter in a 6.5 creedmoor it’s a tack driver 1/2in. Group at 100 yds. With 143 gr. ELDX. I’ve taken 4 bucks with it all under 200 yds. And all dropped in their tracks Like I said shot placement 1 neck shot and 4 high shoulder shots no tracking required. I guess you have a problem with the 6.5 creedmoor but your bad mouth a great caller
What about using .308WIN/7.62x51mm NATO in an AR-10/SR-25? Am I doing something right for killing the game? I also use 300 WIN MAG.
308 loaded with 165g Partition is what I used on 3 elk and had 0 issues . All shots were within 250 yards . I used 18" AR10 . Ultimately I stopped using AR10 just because of weight . 10 to 11 pound rifle gets heavy really quick .
Randy Newberg has taking quite a few elk with 308 or 7mm-08 . I know he also uses Nosler Bullets .
I'm hard CORE Nosler Partition fan . That bullet has never let me down .
Considering most of the 7.62 loads are FMJs no. FMJs are illegal to hunt with in some states and they won’t do much damage when they get inside compared to other hunting bullets
Explain why my 9.3x62 shooting 286gr nosler partitions are so effective at speeds around 2400
There are more things in Heaven and in Earth than are dreamt of in Randy's philosophy. That's it in a nutshell. He came of age in the first magnum craze, and never saw past it.
Just get the 30-06 and be done with it.
I shoot the 264 Winchester magnum and it will do anything that the creedmoor will do but it will do it at 400 fps faster and yes the 120 grain nosler accubond cost $70 dollars a box but i don't shoot a box of ammo a year
But their a real sledgehammer on impact.
I don't claim any great level of expertise,but still I don't see anyway that the 6.5 creedmoore could be competitive to the ancient 270 win. With the exception of being able to house the 6.5 in a bit smaller rifle.And I could buy loaded ammo at a box store at discount and then find premium component bullets to reload those cases with even during the great ammo shortage.Its not that I think every new cartridge that comes out is bad,I just don't understand so many people rushing out to buy the latest thing that duplicates or even fails to duplicate the performance of time proven standards.Having said that I wish that the 284 win. Could have gained a following amongst those short action fans even though it was a competitor to the 270!
127 barnes Is perfect for creedmoor