In 1995 I was still using a much loved Remington .270. I'd taken Antelope, deer and Elk. That year I drew my first Black Bear tag. Well, I did get my bear. It was a big bear by Colorado standards, about 500 lbs. It took 4 very well placed shots at roughly 300 or so yards to get him down. I felt bad for the bear. That day after getting my bear taken care of. I wandered in to a local gun shop. That day I purchased a .338 win mag! I have since shot Antelope, Deer, Elk and yes Bears with it. The .338 win mag is a beautiful round. It is not bad on meat and will put game down right now. I do like 250 grain Swift A Frames and 225 Barnes. I personally can't wrap my head around BC and extreme long range. I do hand load but, I load for accuracy at my feel good ranges and that is was counts. Thank you for a great video!!
My first hunting rifle, purchased back in 1985 is a Interarms (Mauser clone) bolt action in .270 Win. I still have it and love it. It's taken moose that were pushing 1000 lbs. I started reloading with Hornady 150 gr. InterLocks and haven't seen the need to change. On deer and antelope I've yet to need a second shot. On moose, I've occasionally taken a second shot if it looked like the moose wasn't hit properly but examination always showed I got the boiler room. The moose simply was slow getting the message. (It is common with moose.) On black bear, all but one went down with one shot. That one took off like a scalded cat so I put in a second when it was running. Turns out the first shot was good and the second was a gut shot (go figure). One factor in my favour is that where I live and do most hunting, north central BC, shot distances rarely go past 200 yards. I once shot a moose way out in a cut block that I judged to be 325 yards but that was a one off. Sometimes things just don't go as planned. Why you needed four shots on that black bear is a mystery. At 300 yards, bullet speed wouldn't cause breaking up with a well made hunting bullet. I guess my point is that after a lot of success with a certain cartridge, I wouldn't abandon it because of one let down. Black bears in northern BC can be very large and I've never had an issue taking them with my .270. Of course, there's always next year...
@@stephenland9361 your right. I have a 270 for 40 years I have 300win mag 6.5 and more. My 270 is my favorite gun. It will kill any thing I want to shoot. 😊🎉Love it. Thy are making so many different rounds now. It all for a bench shooter not a thing wrong with that. But I am a hunter. Big difference than putting your gun in a gun vaich. Thank you for your time
So sorry to hear about Duke. Love all of the videos. Randy has forgotten more than the so called current experts will ever learn. Humility is a lost virtue.
I work under the same roof that the 6.8 and the WSM's were born. All of these work great, and I own one of the first model 70 Featherweight rifles chambered in .270 WSM. It's one of my favorites, but doesn't make any animal anymore dead than my old model 94, or my grandfather's Garand that I inherited 20 years ago. Thanks for your honest and unbiased opinion.
Randy I liked the picture of Duke riding shotgun with his Papa. He was a very lucky pup to be picked by your family and bless you and your wife for giving him the best life a nose to the ground hound could ever have. Thanks both of you for the quality video.
Frankly, bullet selection is everything, and I don't shoot anything other than Barnes. Period. Also, the 270WSM is a gem and shouldn't be forgotten to the new 6.8W.
@@chadwallace3598 honestly, if you shoot accurately and are within an ethical 300 meters from your game, it really doesn't matter too much if its 27 or 30 cal. My experience the bullets expand just fine. People get too hung up on partisanship to a certain calibre. Some will disagree, and so be it.
@@chadwallace3598 it’s not so much to get expansion so much as solid copper weighs less per volume than lead does. A 175gr solid copper is going to be larger than a 175gr lead with a copper jacket. Because they are larger you typically need faster twists to stabilize them. So they cheat down in weight. I shoot them out of a couple non mag calibers and my 280ai. Haven’t had one not expand. Haven’t reached way out there with them yet though.
I truly appreciate you two taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. I love it when a new video pops up in my watch list. I will admit that I do kind of take ballistic coefficient numbers into account when I load hunting ammo, but they usually range between .473 and .474. Yes I usually use Partitions and try to hunt under 300ish yards. My area has fairly heavy vegetation. Thanks again and God Bless.
I agree with what you're saying. And if you already have a 270 caliber rifle, then there's little advantage, if any, to buy a 6.8 western. But I didn't already have one and was looking to buy one last year. The reason i decided to buy a 6.8 western was that it met more of my criteria than the other .277 caliber cartridges. Namely: Short action, mild recoil, fast twist barrel so i can stabilize HEAVIER .277 bullets. (BC be damned!) I hunt with Barnes bullets and i wanted to be able to use the 155gr LRX. These things make the 6.8 western more versatile for my needs. Also, I couldn't agree with you more about these flimsy high BC bullets for hunting. The ELDXs are JUNK!
I'm with you 110 % on this , I keep my yardage under 300 yards . We owe it to our game animals to get as close as possible to assure a clean harvest. I use my 270's with 150gr nosler partitions and am working up loads of the 160gr nosler partitions.
I javelin recently purchased a 6.8 western. I wanted a short action magnum with manageable recoil. I do agree with Randy that the bullets currently loaded in this cartridge are not hunting bullets so I will be loading my own 180gr round nose hawk bullets. While I admit that this bc solves everything mentality is a detriment to hunting. I believe this cartridge does offer something useful that other cartridges can't so I'm gonna give it a fare shake. Thank you so much for you knowledge and wisdom mr Selby, love the videos and hope to see more.
Once again you're absolutely correct! Bullet selection and shot placement is key. I personally use Nosler Partition bullets. My Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Winchester loves Nosler's 150 grain Partition bullets. Used for deer and black bear in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The nice thing is the Nosler's 160 grain Partition bullets will stabilize in current 270 caliber rifles with a 1 in 10" rifling twist rate. We have large predators (Gray Wolves and Black bears) smaller predators too (coyotes, fox and bobcat) all are devastating to our deer population.
Message sent & Message received! I process my own deer and decided that we are done with polymer tipped bullets last year. I am not sure that finding this video sooner would have opened my eyes, but Randy's lecture on bullets hit home and confirmed my experience. It really is obvious when you hunt and process the animal yourself. The thinly jacketed bullets do not drop deer as consistently and damage a lot more meat than the old bonded hunting bullets or the newer partition or monolithic bullets. Hornady SST sucks for game, and while it is marketed as having a thin enough jacket to expand at lower velocity I have found that the only way I get reliable drops with this bullet is to hit at full velocity at very near ranges and get a 4-6" exit hole. but that sucks. At medium ranges the SST makes a mess and does not reliably drop. We have had more consistent drops and better terminal ballistics for processing with bonded soft points.
Randy, you just got kicked off the Winchester/Browning/FN Christmas card list for this year but I nodded and chuckled as you spoke! Seems like many recent wonder rounds are merely redo’s of whatever the accountant/engineer guy was told to recycle for the next deer season! What a great video!
Thank you for telling the truth. Marketing is killing the shooting sports. At the Expo in SLC back in February. There are young fellas “assembling” rifles and calling them “custom build” and they have no business doing so. It should scare us all that I can go to Sportsman’s Warehouse and find limited supplies of 6.5 and 6.8 ammo and there is NO TRADITIONAL CALIBER AMMO in stock. We are being railroaded, folks! Remember this: After the animal rights sector gets enough film footage and pictures to support their case, they are going after “hunting” and try to shut it down. Same thing is happening with 100 yard archery shots. We absolutely must be honest about this wrong way of doing things.
he is lying about ballistic tips in general and the velocity he states for the .270 winchester is 200 fps faster that max load data for that bullet. at 400 yards the 6.8 western on average has 300-400 ft/lb more energy depending on load than the .270 win has with any load. if you have a .270 winchester that shoots great and can take the game you want at the distance you shoot at, there is no reason to buy a 6.8 western unless you want another gun, or are going to start hunting elk at ranges over 300 yards regularly. the 6.8 is a great all around round, but shines for long range.
He has his opinion about ballistic tips. Problem is he states it like it’s fact. I personally use a 50 gr 22-250 on white tails and have shot several over 300 yards with it. Haven’t had to follow a blood trail since I stopped shooting an 06 25 or so years ago. My opinion is very different than his on caliber, bullet weight and x bullets but I still respect his opinions. Just wish he didn’t state them as fact. Because there’s plenty of proof his poorly constructed bullets and underpowered rifles work just fine in the hands of the right people.
I hunt Whitetails and Hogs in the Southeast. The .270 was my first rifle purchased decades ago. I shot factory Winchester 130 grain Silvertips out of it on hundreds of deer. It never let me down. I did pick up a box of Nosler Partitions at some point and began using them. The issue I experienced on a Whitetail buck with the Partition was that the bullet was too well constructed and penciled completely through the deer without expanding to its proper shape. Internal damage was minimal and the blood trail was small and hard to follow. I did however recover the deer after it ran over 100 yards. Field dressing the deer revealed that the bullet had indeed passed through both lungs but again, the internal damage was not up to snuff. The shot was about 90 yards. I went back to shooting Silvertips and then, when those became hard to find, moved on to the Nosler Ballistic Tips in 130 grain. Never had a problem again. In my opinion, Partitions are great on heavier sized game with thicker hide, deeper chest cavities and larger bone structure. But on lighter skinned and smaller deer like where I hunt, a better bullet that expands quicker just does the trick. I don't really give a rip about BC. And I have never shot a deer over 250 yards. It's the proper bullet put in the proper area that will take game. Thanks for sharing Sir. I really respect your incredible amount of practical knowledge. Stay well and God Bless.
Thank you, Randy. The basics are the basics. They never change. I always trust the man who has the skills, the experience and the ability to honestly assess what he has seen and done. It is easy to identify the commenters who have not researched their chosen subject. I learned decades back, for example, that: boat-tail bullets were created to extend the useable range of crew-served machine guns and further developed to win target shooting competitions at ranges out to 1,000 yards (or 1,100 and 1,200 yards in some locations). They obviously can be used in hunting cartridges but that was not the original intended use of that bullet conformation.
When this video came out 2 years ago I was looking into the 6.8 western and into getting one and that’s how I found this video!! After watching this video I decided to check out the 270 weatherby!! Well needless to say the 270 weatherby was what I ended up going with. I built the rifle on a terminus action and a krieger barrel 27 inches long with an 8 twist! And with the 150 grain swift A frame my rifle with Retumbo is running at 3230 fps!! Seriously devastating on deer and iv shot 5 with it this far only one has taken a step after the shot and it went about 60 yards and was done!! I’m glad I took randys advice on this cartridge!
6.8 western, in my opinion, is a 270 with a makeover. It is a good cartridge, I definitely believe so, given proper bullet choice for what you are hunting. The faster twist lets you shoot heavier bullets that are more aerodynamic, giving you more retained energy, less bullet drop, and less wind deflection. However I feel that the heavier bullets they are designing leave lots of gaps when it comes to medium to large game options, as you say, due to bullet construction. Great cartridge design, lots of potential, but still lots of room to grow.
what is wrong with the nosler accubond LR at any range on any game. you say room to grow, but the cartridge released with a bullet that has 90% weight retention at 2900 fps and 100% at 1800 fps but still expands to twice the size... what more room to grow IS there? a monolithic solid for buffalo?
@@hotramen5952 i think 6.8 is a great cartridge with lots of potential. But its still in its still new and may not make it long term. 6.8 shines with heavy high bc bullets. Otherwise you might just as well get a 270 Most of the bullets available were designed and intended for 270 with its slower twist and shorter throat. For the cartridge to survive and flourish, imho, there need to be more manufacturers chambered in 6.8 to make it more accessible. And there need yo be more heavy high bc offering. While the accubond can be a good option, 1 or 2 good bullet cannot carry a cartridge. For the price of a 6.8 in its current offerings i could get a savage and have a custom barrel cut with the fast twist and longer throat and do the same thing.
@@jonathanrogers9961 i agree we need more bullet options, i really want federal fusion personally as thats my favorite deer load. that said , a .270 win will not keep up with the heavier bullets even if you get one twisted for it. in factory ammo a 6.8 puts out 175 grain bullets faster than a 7mm rem mag...
Thanks for the video Randy I agree BC doesn't kill game without a good bullet and good shot placement you don't have what it takes to harvest game ethically and everyone should give all game the respect they deserve.i just don't see why people use bullets that just blow up on impact that are really just target bullets. Thanks again and God bless yall
the nosler accubond LR (the bullet from the article he references) is a bonded bullet that retains almost all its weight at max velocity. they "dont blow up."
I was part of 8 elk being taken this past hunting season by the 6.8 Western. In every case, the rifle/cartridge/bullet combo did the job very well. Out of 8 elk, we did lose one front quarter due to a bad shot placement, but that happens with EVERY cartridge. They were very nice rifles to shoot, with little recoil, and very accurate. Is it a bad cartridge? No, it’s not. Will it last in the shooting and hunting market like many of the older cartridges? I think probably not. The timing of the release was probably the worst thing about the 6.8 Western. It won’t be supported by ammo manufacturers like the 7mm PRC will be, and so will probably be eclipsed. I’m not sad about it, it didn’t fill a need for me, and didn’t do anything a lot of other cartridges already don’t do pretty well.
Sometimes I think marketing is the worst enemy of the shooting sports. I’ll stick with my 270win over the 6.8 western. I don’t need a new cartridge to get the job done. I have no issue trying something new, but there is a big difference between shooting paper and game. Being an ethical hunter is very important if we want to continue on with the sport. We are under enough criticism as is.
I am old and simple. I have been using Nosler partitions for over 30 years and have never looked for anything else. I haven't come up with a reason to alter from them. Guess I am missing out. Thanks Mr. Selby for another great video!
Thanks for putting out another great video . If you can do the 8 inch twist on a 270 you can match that 6.8 western step for step. All you gotta do is change a barrel. And heavier Bullet construction absolutely does less damage to the rest of the meat. It just punches through and takes out the vitals without wasting too much of why you're hunting. I've only taken one long range hunting shot in my entire life. Because that of hundreds of hunts, only one had the right conditions to take. And that was with a 338 Lapua Magnum. On elk. He dropped right where he stood. And then I had to walk and climb and walk and climb because it was only 700 yards line of site, but it was a mile and a half up and down the hill. Which ment a 3 mile drag back to where I took the shot from. And I was already 5 miles in.
Randy tell it like it is your knowledge of how bullets are constructed and how they perform is very informative and an eye opener for a new hand loader ,i now have some projectiles that will be up for sale or put aside for target shoots only,bullet placement is key but having the right bullet to put in the right spot is equally important,keep talking sir and we will keep listening.
Well I love tinkering and was thinking of getting a 6.8 only due to the fact I like the new copper monolithic bullets and I believe they do better in faster twist barrel.
Right in some areas, less so in others. The Accubond LR has a good, thick copper base that makes it a great big game bullet. Winchester makes a solid copper bullet 6.8 load that is also great for big game. I would say he’s wrong in attacking the 6.8 for all the poorly constructed bullets created. Just about every caliber has loads with improper bullets billed for hunting. The 6.8 is what it is, and if nothing else, it is making heavier for caliber .277 bullets extremely available. These manufacturers can’t just load up heavy bullets in a regular 270, change the chamber, and the twist and sell it without legal ramifications. I.e., the “new” chambering. I certainly do agree that the marketing leaves a lot to be desired, but that is ALWAYS the case.
And do not get me wrong, I don’t support this new long range movement. If there was a way to legally limit shots to 300 yards, I’d be completely fine with it.
Thank you Randy , it is nice to get the true answers without all the run around. . So much of this is done in the industry anymore. Keep up the great work
Sorry to hear about Duke. I’m in my late 60’s and have hunted,handloaded , and shot 55+ years with many different rifles and cartridges. Randy is only one of a very few who has my full attention. I could not agree more with Randy in regards to B.C. You hear about a lot of super long distance shots, but I’m confident there are more sad stories from bad shooting and wounded game at those 500 plus yard shots along with under powered cartridges.
Randy, i dont shoot anything above a 243win but i love listening to your knowledge of these bigger calibers. The info of what it takes to take game ethically is great. I feel like in today's world we are taking cartidges that are designed for long range target shooting and saying they are great hunting cartridges. I feel like the difference is, we are designing cartridges that are inherently accurate and low recoiling to be pleasant to shoot and saying they are good long range hunting cartridges. But what you've been explaining is, is that to harvest game at long range it takes lots of horsepower and energy to take game to kill ethically. I love what your saying and believe we need to take onto consideration the knowledge of folks like you that actually live this knowledgs!
Everyone that subscribes to your channel and has listen to your videos through and through should know that you run your channel with integrity and honesty. I have never even thought of you being sponsored. I know better than that! Now I don't condone 500 yd shots on game but if that is what a man is after, why not just use a 7mm mag shooting a partition bullet? You have a correctly engineered hunting bullet with enough powder to drive it the distance that you seek. Or am I missing something here... I love this channel and I love what you are doing Randy so keep doing it please.
"We're going to talk about the 6.8 westerner, I'm gonna give you the honest dope..." *dog groans in background* 😂 Good common sense knowledge from a guy who knows what he's talking about. 👍
@@TheRealGunsmith thank you for the kind words. I know it’s hard for sure nothing can replace them. Also I wouldn’t mis a video any chance I can I tune in and watch. It’s pure passion and love for firearms and our hunting heritage. You folks are both special gems in our crazy world. Thanks for sharing
The significant advantage of the 6.8 Western is not a high BC bullet so that you can shoot at game 700 yards away. The advantage is that it will stabilize a 180g bullet in 277 caliber that will penetrate deeper because of its higher sectional density than you will get with a 270 Winchester. You don't have to use the thin walled accubond long range bullets. Use the bullet you prefer for normal hunting range and forget about the 650 yd unethical shots
Deer dont die at the sound of BC I am tired of being told that I need a newer bullet. There are so many factors like sectional density, interior geometry, projectile composition, and sheer weight to name four alone. Killing paper is easy! Anything will do it! Well, not just anything will drop a big game animal. You have to have the right engineering and if it means that the hunter gets up and closes some distance for the kill, then that's hunting! I run a 60-year-old bullet and it is as close to perfect as it gets. I'll never switch from Partitions because they kill. It's proven every day of every season. And they are less expensive than most of the others too. I agree with you, Randy!
I'm interested in the 6.8 because I am switching from lead to copper. Faster twist lets me shoot 160 gr coppers. No lead, high bc, high SD most importantly and will give me plenty of speed out to 350 yards. I don't shoot further than that at game anyway. Mostly, though, I use 110 or 117 grain hammers right now in my 270 winchester. Those start out at 3400 or there abouts and are great for deer. 160s would give me the ability to shoot larger game at 300 or so.
I don’t hunt. I benchrest shoot. 6.8 western is basically my dream cartridge. I could certainly build a gun around that cartridge and destroy everything in its class and from 6.5 to 7mm easy breasy. Hunting… bullet selection, bullet placement, range. It’s not rocket science. High BC does not mean accurate not does it mean good hunting. Keep in mind I’m a 270 win fan boy more than anyone. Just saying the 6.8 western is hands down better for a handloading benchrest shooter.
While I typically appreciate your videos and opinions, lately I cant help my self from asking, when they necked down the 06 to 270 Winchester how many old timers claimed "we've gotten way off track"
I've had great success with Barnes out to 400+ yards. I don't call myself a long range hunter, but occasionally that is what is required. I practice shooting year-round, running a thousand or so rounds through my rifle every year. My confidence at shooting under 500 yards is as high as it can be, understanding the environmental factors (uncertainty) we are faced with in the field. With that in mind, I will only take a shot over 400 yards if all conditions are perfect for such a shot. Any time I take a long shot, I do so knowing that Barnes will achieve the kind of penetration and do the damage needed to put down large game at distance. You, obviously, know what you are talking about when it comes to terminal ballistics. Cheers!
My 6.8 western is hand loaded with 150 grain partitions, velocity right at 3200 fps. I agree bullet means everything. 150 partitions have a bc of .465 depending on elevation and temp. Good video, I personally want to be 500 yards or closer, the 6.8 is very accurate with 150 partitions. 160 partitions are semi spire points very accurate also, good close range bullets. Great video good content
Always a pleasure learning from your videos Randy. Can you give an in depth honest vid like this on the 6.5prc. For mule/whitetail deer out to 500... Love to hear the breakdown of this caliber...
Unfortunately I know some of these long range IDIOTS!!!! If they shoot at game over 600 yds and the animal does not show signs of being hit, they won't even go over and look for blood or the animal. I'm sick of it and regularly voice my opinion. Lost friends over it. Take care and good hunting!
@@davidfornkahl8374 thank you for speaking your opinion….. Montana Game and Fish estimates wounding loss at 15 to 30% every year……………. This long range murder needs to be halted or it might just be the demise of our big game hunting altogether …..of course todays youth will most likely not listen……….
@@joshwilcox8941 I stand corrected---it's this new long range 'hunting' craze where our game animals are being used for target practice at ridiculous distances -is what I don't agree with. If they want to shoot paper targets or steel plates etc etc at 20 miles, go right ahead. Thank you for pointing that out. I wish you good hunting this fall.
Hi I’m a big game guide..I’ve done a lot of shooting and seen a lot shooting for over 40 years. I like the 6.8 western I think it has the potential to be the next 270 win, here’s why ; :High bc. Better penetration (with good expansion ability) is a good thing! :Moderate recoil. If you flinch like a Like a rabid coyote and piss your pants when shoot it, you won’t practice enough. Putting the bullet where you want it is a good thing! :Short action. . When you have to hoof over ugly ground for a mile and use more than one bottle of nitro glycerine! You need to lighten your load! lighter weight, shorter length is a good thing! :Average price of cartridges. All hunters can afford to practice. Practice shooting is a good thing.(And I’m not talking about bench rest! A one eyed squirrel with three fingers can shoot from a bench! Stand up and shoot! : decent point blank range in the mid to upper 300s. Not having to bring a spotter,wind meter,trigonometry calculator, temperature, humidity metre. Etc. just up and shoot! (Remember you’ve been practicing) That’s a good thing! : versatile .Not to much for coyotes and I wouldn’t be afraid to go for a moose! Good for all. That’s a good thing! : long range fun. The nice little true 7 mm bullets don’t care too much about wind! Couple that with 7 1/2 to 8 inch twist rate and you got a nice long range cartridge. That’s a good thing! Once I called a nice big bull moose in for a couple of (experienced) clients, they proceeded to Broadside the surprised swamp donkey with a matching pair of Browning autos in 338 a deafening roar of what seemed like fully automatic fire and the screams of I’m out I’m out reload reload echoed Across the once peaceful marsh. The moose stumbled off into the bush unseen. I guess because of the smoke from a small grass fire in front of the blind and the mass confusion of boxes of amo being ripped apart the shiny brass cartridges flying around the small blind like lead confetti. After coming out of my shell shock I gained control of the two still smoking Browning autos and let hunters know the moose had gotten away. I convinced my two friends to stay put and not load their firearms grabbed my old 30-30 and started tracking. Although there was surprisingly very little blood (that I later contributed that to the extreme muzzle flash lol) Tracking was not that hard due to 1700lb adrenaline powered beast knocking over a lot of trees for about 300 yards I finished the job. Wasn’t a lot of good meat on the one side. Unfortunately I have seen this too many times with cartridges with even more hitting power than the 338. I guess my point is even if you have a high powered rifle with good bullets you still have to hit what you’re aiming at if want a clean kill. I know what you’re saying about some of the bullets available right now but with better bullets in the future the 6.8 western is going to be even better. Time to put the 270 win to bed.
Randy is spot on. I built a 6.5x300 win mag. 142 accubond long range at 3350. I shot a whitetail buck at 300 yards. Impact velocity around 2800. It blew so bad it did not make it through the shoulder blade. My uncle shoots a 260 remington. Maybe they will behave in that but junk when you push them fast. I called Nosler. On the box they print velocity unlimited!! What a joke!!! The man at nosler said (well they are meant for long range) I would not buy another box on a bet. It is a shame federal will not up production on their terminal accent. That is the ONLY lead high BC bullet that works near to far. I have never been good at telepathing to an animal how far away to show up lol. Now I use only hammer and bulldozer bullets by badlands precision. Always open and cannot blow up.
I have always and will always use my Winchester Model 88 .308. I have taken everything from coyote to moose and bear with it, and have always used a 150 gr SP bullet. If you can place your shot with the gun you use for years it will always work. To many times have i seen long range shots from people with "new" guns and bullets that shot it 5 times before they came hunting and miss every shot. Ive used my .308 for 30 years. Best bush gun on the planet in my humble opinion. To be honest i will never switch.
I DID NOT KNOW IF I LIKE IT BECAUSE I LIKE THE 270 AND THE 06/30, TODAY I USE THE 308 OF 125, BUT I SUPPOSE THAT AS LONG AS IT IS A FLAT TAIL IT WILL WORK, SEDINITIVELY I DID NOT HAVE GOOD RESULTS IN 165
Look objectively at the info. and make up your own mind without poo pooing Randy. I have hunted my whole life and have opinions about rifles etc etc but have learned more from the Real Gunsmith than any other source. Thanks and God Bless Randy & Cathy
It makes you think that we've come so far in trying to make shooting easier that we're losing point of what makes a good shot and that's the person holding the rifle. People dog the 308 but it used to be the 308 was the sniper caliber of choice for the US military before that it was your grandpa's 30-06. Put a good gun in the hands of a great shooter and put a great gun in the hands of a good shooter and see who comes up on top
Another fine video Randy. Thank you. And always speaking the truth and the reality of this new craze of long range shooting of game. Such foolishness I will stick with my go to 270 don't need nothing else but a well placed shot within 200 yards
In 1977 I made up a 30 338 I shot 200 nosler partition handloads at a muzzle velocity of 3050 fps It never let me down on Wyoming elk it was fast flat and effective I never used it over 525 yards and that was the longest shot I ever used it on one shot kill right in the crease
🤠 I Love your point on the changing B.C. of the bullets and the Serria bullet only comming out of the muzzle at just over 2,800 ft/s! Bullets are what kill the game - Period! Yes, velocity is every bit as important as the bullet weight - because it is what helps the bullet to perform right (alot of people don't seem to understand that concept either - another great point)! Actually, in the formula, velocity is squared - while the bullet weight is not! GREAT DISCUSSION (I agree that ethics always should be a part of the discussion)! Why bullet quality is so overlooked is beyond me - though I do prefer to use the heaviest bullets in any caliber that I am hunting with to maximize it's killing potential! But, I would also love to hear your thoughts on the 280 AI next! 👍😉
🤠 The resting B.C. of the bullet is not what matters, nor is the resting bullet diameter! Until the bullet leaves the muzzle and strikes the animal, nothing regarding bullet performance can be adequately evaluated - just predicted! So, here is another interesting topic for you to discuss - the powder pushing that bullet (i.e. temperature stable powder vs. non-temperature stable powders)! I just got put on to Reloader 16 and went Shopping for H4831SC, H4831, and H1000 for my 270 Winchester! Velocity is important, but accuracy and consistency are even more important - "if you can't put the bullet where it is supposed to go, then nothing else matters!" Most people have a hard time doing that much (and that is even at "ethical" hunting distances), but that is another topic for another day! These are usually the same people that are talking about taking 1/2 mile shots at game animals too! 😱
My old sportsman 78 .270 has been around for a long time and all I have to say is that them there other outfits ain't gonna kill anything any deader than my old sportsman 78 using the 150 gr. Partition smack dab in the boiler room.
You are correct in your advise Mr Selby. The two things i look at in a bullet for game is construction first, and sectional density 2nd. BC is way overrated. A Frames are my favorite. Get a well constructed bullet with a sectional density of 300 or better and go hunting
🤠 A-Frame's are my favorite bullet too! But, here is the problem with "Sectional Density" - once the bullet strikes the animal, that immediately changes! So, bullet "performance" is totally based on "bullet construction"! And, since the A-Frame is esentially a "Bonded Nosler Partition", it mushrooms beautifully and cinsistantly every time and has no core jacket separation (unlike the cup and core Nosler Partition)! It has proven itself in Africa against the toughest of game Animals in the World and shoots well out of Big Magnums because of it's flat based bullet design (boat tails don't often stabalize as well in real high velocity calibers, but the flat based ones often do, and provide greater consistency in performance/accuracy)! So, if your shooting the 150 grain 0.277 diameter bullet or 0.308 diameter 200 grain bullet, their B.C.'a are both 0.444! Not bad, but not an issue if you are shooting at reasonable ranges anyway! If their is a tougher bullet out their, it will only be in a monolithic solid, but not a good performing bullet for medium sized "Big Game" like elk (we aren't hunting Cape Buffalo 🐃 in North America, unless it is some Texas "game farm", which I wouldn't do anyway)! So, you have chosen well! 🦌🏆
Your point is well taken on sectional density changing once said bullet strikes an animal. Still, all else being equal, i would rather have a longer heavier bullet in any given caliber striking an animal than a shorter lighter one. Especially on elk size game or larger where penetration can be an issue. Heavy for caliber A Frames are thee best expanding bullets made for that job IMHO!
i am old,shooting for 50 years,i do not under stand people think one gun can do it all, i shoot 3 guns a 25-06 a 300h&h and a under and over 308 scrub gun,the 2 rifles have the wright barrels 26 inch with the wright twist and good trigers, with a good scope the 308 has a good open scope for close work,i use differnt bullits range and hunting, my 25-06 shoots as well as all this new fancy stuff, i go to the range most weeks ,that is more important than a fancy rifles, i read all your comment and think the same as Mike
If you’re shooting big game at 300 yards or less BC numbers mean absolutely nothing. Ever. Period. The construction and placement of the bullet is all that matters.
Thank you sir, another great lecture. I wish I could afford to have you build a rifle to replace my beloved but recently departed Ithica LSA55 chambered in 6mm rem.
Randys points are common sense . # 1 Optics , people at my local range shooting 22 silhouette at ranges out to 100 yards & they mount Optics on a 22 rimfire that is madness . Eg : 4 to 24 x 56 mm object lens . With the high mounts it makes the best gun a chore to use . At the end of the day you have only got to see out to 100 yards . I think a 2x7 to 30 is all that's required Max ! On calibres , know your limits ! Just because a book tells you or a salesman says so doesn't mean it's right . To give you a practical example is my experience with the 22/250 cartridge . I have personally owned four of them & shot the barrels out . My current 22/250 wears a 1"&1/8 no taper barrel . It's 16 & a half pounds with its second barrel . Shoot foxes , goat & pigs . My go to load is 60 grn hornady flat based hollow points . Every fox was a head shot & goats & pigs depend on range . In my gun cabernet I have a 6mm Ackley Improved & 300 WM and a 375 H&H . I also have loaded 223 , 270 , 30-06 , 8x57 Mauser , 30-30 Winchester & handguns , my first was a 357 security six . Moved on to a 686 distinguished combat commander . Heavily modified . My CZ-75 in 9mm was my first venture into IPSC . IF you disagree with Randy you are a fool & so Am I .
I love my new 6.8 western with a 26 inch barrel Im getting 2825 fps with a 175 gr sierra game king. From Noslers reloading date the fastest speeds I could see was 2820 with a 160 grain bullet. Im shooting just over half inch groups and I am not even at max load charge so I am sure I could get even faster speeds out of my 6.8 wester. At the end of the day, cool cartridge and if people want it get it, if you get so hung up on we shouldn't push the boundaries of what we know when it comes to guns then shoot a 30-06 grandpas old rifle, probably kill just as dead as any other .30 caliber hunting cartridge. I really like that we are pushing the boundaries of what we know and I encourage further testing of new cartridges. That being said Hornady please make brass for your cartridges you come out with abundant to the public before you create a new round.
He didn’t say they weren’t. He said target bullets and thin jacketed bullets aren’t good for hunting. Also said that the 6.5 Western doesn’t really do anything the 270 can’t accomplish especially with the same bullets and powders and twist rates. Happens a lot, mostly to sell more guns. Sales of guns on a popular caliber slow down they turn out another cartridge and call it the next best thing. It isn’t best and does nothing an existing cartridge doesn’t except sell more guns to people who don’t take the time to consider whether they have one that’ll do the same work. I didn’t even have to listen for long to get that out of it. I wonder how you got something that wasn’t said.
I agree. The newer advancements are hard to swallow but they are better. I agree with his statements on thin jacketed bullets and rifle companies marketing fire arms for distances that are ridiculous. He is correct. He never reviewed the 6.8 “Westerner”!!! Why? Because he used a story he heard from a friend of a friend on shooting an elk five times after he said he only tells facts about what he sees! All he has seen is a article and some ballistic information that none of us really know is correct or not. I’ve shot a lot of game with the 6.8 (no elk) and it definitely drops em harder than the good ole 270 with a 130 grain bullet. I agree with a lot of what he said but we didn’t get a good review. It’s hard for some people to like new things and hopefully he gets the chance to use the 6.8 with a good bullet
He is not really criticizing the cartridges. He is criticizing the way they are being promoted and the compromises they are choosing. Most people don't have a clue and they really don't get that a bullet that works at 800 yards is unlikely to be the right choice at 200 yards fired at the same muzzle velocity. I suspect that 6.8 Western would have done a lot better on that Elk if he had been using 180 gr Woodleigh Weldcore. They have no problem dropping similar size African Antelope.
This guy is so full of it. A 150 grain bullet out of the .270 Winchester at 3120 is so far above Sammy limits for pressure. It should be outlawed and so should he. He obviously has an agenda and is talking out his, well, you know.😊 8:37
What if I loaded 140,130 grain nosler, barnes or swift bullet up for the 6.8 western? I know it’s basically the same as the 270 wsm but it’s hard to find anything chambered in the cartridge around me. Is the 6.5 prc a better route to look at? Just for hunting whitetail deer but want something that shoots flat.
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My 6.8W will shoot a 165g Accubond LR at 2950 fps. That will get it done on most game in North America.
In 1995 I was still using a much loved Remington .270. I'd taken Antelope, deer and Elk. That year I drew my first Black Bear tag. Well, I did get my bear. It was a big bear by Colorado standards, about 500 lbs. It took 4 very well placed shots at roughly 300 or so yards to get him down. I felt bad for the bear. That day after getting my bear taken care of. I wandered in to a local gun shop. That day I purchased a .338 win mag! I have since shot Antelope, Deer, Elk and yes Bears with it. The .338 win mag is a beautiful round. It is not bad on meat and will put game down right now. I do like 250 grain Swift A Frames and 225 Barnes. I personally can't wrap my head around BC and extreme long range. I do hand load but, I load for accuracy at my feel good ranges and that is was counts. Thank you for a great video!!
My first hunting rifle, purchased back in 1985 is a Interarms (Mauser clone) bolt action in .270 Win. I still have it and love it. It's taken moose that were pushing 1000 lbs. I started reloading with Hornady 150 gr. InterLocks and haven't seen the need to change. On deer and antelope I've yet to need a second shot. On moose, I've occasionally taken a second shot if it looked like the moose wasn't hit properly but examination always showed I got the boiler room. The moose simply was slow getting the message. (It is common with moose.)
On black bear, all but one went down with one shot. That one took off like a scalded cat so I put in a second when it was running. Turns out the first shot was good and the second was a gut shot (go figure). One factor in my favour is that where I live and do most hunting, north central BC, shot distances rarely go past 200 yards. I once shot a moose way out in a cut block that I judged to be 325 yards but that was a one off.
Sometimes things just don't go as planned. Why you needed four shots on that black bear is a mystery. At 300 yards, bullet speed wouldn't cause breaking up with a well made hunting bullet. I guess my point is that after a lot of success with a certain cartridge, I wouldn't abandon it because of one let down. Black bears in northern BC can be very large and I've never had an issue taking them with my .270. Of course, there's always next year...
@@stephenland9361 your right. I have a 270 for 40 years I have 300win mag 6.5 and more. My 270 is my favorite gun. It will kill any thing I want to shoot. 😊🎉Love it. Thy are making so many different rounds now. It all for a bench shooter not a thing wrong with that. But I am a hunter. Big difference than putting your gun in a gun vaich. Thank you for your time
Maybe it was the cocaine bear!!!@@stephenland9361
So sorry to hear about Duke. Love all of the videos. Randy has forgotten more than the so called current experts will ever learn. Humility is a lost virtue.
Thank you sir. This is plane spoken wisdom. This long range, small target bullet BS needs to stop. It's harming our sport and harming our game.
I personally like both but I consider it two totally different sports. For me hunting is as close as possible and targets at long distance.
@@charleswilson577 👍. Right keep the extreme range stuff for the things that don't bleed or wander off.
Big bullets big power for hunting
I work under the same roof that the 6.8 and the WSM's were born. All of these work great, and I own one of the first model 70 Featherweight rifles chambered in .270 WSM. It's one of my favorites, but doesn't make any animal anymore dead than my old model 94, or my grandfather's Garand that I inherited 20 years ago. Thanks for your honest and unbiased opinion.
Randy I liked the picture of Duke riding shotgun with his Papa. He was a very lucky pup to be picked by your family and bless you and your wife for giving him the best life a nose to the ground hound could ever have. Thanks both of you for the quality video.
Frankly, bullet selection is everything, and I don't shoot anything other than Barnes. Period. Also, the 270WSM is a gem and shouldn't be forgotten to the new 6.8W.
Do you still have to go light for caliber on those to get good expansion? Or did they fix it yet? I shoot 30-06
@@chadwallace3598 300wsm is better
So sounds like a yes to my question?
@@chadwallace3598 honestly, if you shoot accurately and are within an ethical 300 meters from your game, it really doesn't matter too much if its 27 or 30 cal. My experience the bullets expand just fine. People get too hung up on partisanship to a certain calibre. Some will disagree, and so be it.
@@chadwallace3598 it’s not so much to get expansion so much as solid copper weighs less per volume than lead does. A 175gr solid copper is going to be larger than a 175gr lead with a copper jacket. Because they are larger you typically need faster twists to stabilize them. So they cheat down in weight. I shoot them out of a couple non mag calibers and my 280ai. Haven’t had one not expand. Haven’t reached way out there with them yet though.
I truly appreciate you two taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. I love it when a new video pops up in my watch list. I will admit that I do kind of take ballistic coefficient numbers into account when I load hunting ammo, but they usually range between .473 and .474. Yes I usually use Partitions and try to hunt under 300ish yards. My area has fairly heavy vegetation. Thanks again and God Bless.
Guys like Randy are very rare! He’s telling the truth! God bless Randy
Everyone likes to think of themselves as a low key sniper.
I agree with what you're saying. And if you already have a 270 caliber rifle, then there's little advantage, if any, to buy a 6.8 western. But I didn't already have one and was looking to buy one last year. The reason i decided to buy a 6.8 western was that it met more of my criteria than the other .277 caliber cartridges. Namely: Short action, mild recoil, fast twist barrel so i can stabilize HEAVIER .277 bullets. (BC be damned!) I hunt with Barnes bullets and i wanted to be able to use the 155gr LRX. These things make the 6.8 western more versatile for my needs.
Also, I couldn't agree with you more about these flimsy high BC bullets for hunting. The ELDXs are JUNK!
I'm with you 110 % on this , I keep my yardage under 300 yards . We owe it to our game animals to get as close as possible to assure a clean harvest. I use my 270's with 150gr nosler partitions and am working up loads of the 160gr nosler partitions.
Agreed. In “theory” I can take grey squirrels at 100yd with my field Mossberg 320k. In reality I keep shots under a guesstimated 35yd slant range.
My 30-378 weatherby and 338-378 weatherby disagrees but agree to disagree 🙂also some ua are much better shooters than others
@@MrJtin69 for sure man keep your shots to within your limits. Don't let other people's limits limit your shots.
Amen brother its not about your ego. And shooting a fning artilery piece. Its about recovering a animal
I agree Donald Anderson! I consider 300 yards a long poke. I also have had success with 150 grain partitions in 270 powered by Reloader 26.
I javelin recently purchased a 6.8 western. I wanted a short action magnum with manageable recoil. I do agree with Randy that the bullets currently loaded in this cartridge are not hunting bullets so I will be loading my own 180gr round nose hawk bullets. While I admit that this bc solves everything mentality is a detriment to hunting. I believe this cartridge does offer something useful that other cartridges can't so I'm gonna give it a fare shake. Thank you so much for you knowledge and wisdom mr Selby, love the videos and hope to see more.
Once again you're absolutely correct! Bullet selection and shot placement is key.
I personally use Nosler Partition bullets. My Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Winchester loves Nosler's 150 grain Partition bullets. Used for deer and black bear in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
The nice thing is the Nosler's 160 grain Partition bullets will stabilize in current 270 caliber rifles with a 1 in 10" rifling twist rate.
We have large predators (Gray Wolves and Black bears) smaller predators too (coyotes, fox and bobcat) all are devastating to our deer population.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience to bring us to true understanding of what is actually important in quick dispatch of our game .
I wish i could stay awake for a month just to hear you speak. Agree 110percnt with you and your wisdom is unlimited. Thamk you sir for your videos
Message sent & Message received! I process my own deer and decided that we are done with polymer tipped bullets last year. I am not sure that finding this video sooner would have opened my eyes, but Randy's lecture on bullets hit home and confirmed my experience. It really is obvious when you hunt and process the animal yourself. The thinly jacketed bullets do not drop deer as consistently and damage a lot more meat than the old bonded hunting bullets or the newer partition or monolithic bullets. Hornady SST sucks for game, and while it is marketed as having a thin enough jacket to expand at lower velocity I have found that the only way I get reliable drops with this bullet is to hit at full velocity at very near ranges and get a 4-6" exit hole. but that sucks. At medium ranges the SST makes a mess and does not reliably drop. We have had more consistent drops and better terminal ballistics for processing with bonded soft points.
Mr Selby, your information shared is a beacon of light in a world of darkness, THANK YOU
Randy, you just got kicked off the Winchester/Browning/FN Christmas card list for this year but I nodded and chuckled as you spoke!
Seems like many recent wonder rounds are merely redo’s of whatever the accountant/engineer guy was told to recycle for the next deer season!
What a great video!
Thank you for telling the truth. Marketing is killing the shooting sports. At the Expo in SLC back in February. There are young fellas “assembling” rifles and calling them “custom build” and they have no business doing so.
It should scare us all that I can go to Sportsman’s Warehouse and find limited supplies of 6.5 and 6.8 ammo and there is NO TRADITIONAL CALIBER AMMO in stock.
We are being railroaded, folks!
Remember this: After the animal rights sector gets enough film footage and pictures to support their case, they are going after “hunting” and try to shut it down. Same thing is happening with 100 yard archery shots. We absolutely must be honest about this wrong way of doing things.
Just like politicians are ruining america
Thank you Randy for your honest appraisal of this cartridge. I was wondering what the hype was about, now I know the facts. I'll keep my 270
he is lying about ballistic tips in general and the velocity he states for the .270 winchester is 200 fps faster that max load data for that bullet. at 400 yards the 6.8 western on average has 300-400 ft/lb more energy depending on load than the .270 win has with any load.
if you have a .270 winchester that shoots great and can take the game you want at the distance you shoot at, there is no reason to buy a 6.8 western unless you want another gun, or are going to start hunting elk at ranges over 300 yards regularly. the 6.8 is a great all around round, but shines for long range.
He has his opinion about ballistic tips. Problem is he states it like it’s fact. I personally use a 50 gr 22-250 on white tails and have shot several over 300 yards with it. Haven’t had to follow a blood trail since I stopped shooting an 06 25 or so years ago. My opinion is very different than his on caliber, bullet weight and x bullets but I still respect his opinions. Just wish he didn’t state them as fact. Because there’s plenty of proof his poorly constructed bullets and underpowered rifles work just fine in the hands of the right people.
I’ve killed more than a few deer with a 22-250. Think I’ll have to call BS if your suggesting it out performs the 06
I hunt Whitetails and Hogs in the Southeast. The .270 was my first rifle purchased decades ago. I shot factory Winchester 130 grain Silvertips out of it on hundreds of deer. It never let me down. I did pick up a box of Nosler Partitions at some point and began using them. The issue I experienced on a Whitetail buck with the Partition was that the bullet was too well constructed and penciled completely through the deer without expanding to its proper shape. Internal damage was minimal and the blood trail was small and hard to follow. I did however recover the deer after it ran over 100 yards. Field dressing the deer revealed that the bullet had indeed passed through both lungs but again, the internal damage was not up to snuff. The shot was about 90 yards. I went back to shooting Silvertips and then, when those became hard to find, moved on to the Nosler Ballistic Tips in 130 grain. Never had a problem again. In my opinion, Partitions are great on heavier sized game with thicker hide, deeper chest cavities and larger bone structure. But on lighter skinned and smaller deer like where I hunt, a better bullet that expands quicker just does the trick. I don't really give a rip about BC. And I have never shot a deer over 250 yards. It's the proper bullet put in the proper area that will take game. Thanks for sharing Sir. I really respect your incredible amount of practical knowledge. Stay well and God Bless.
The winchester copper impact bullet is avaliable now. It should be an acceptable bullet as far as terminal performance.
Thank you, Randy. The basics are the basics. They never change. I always trust the man who has the skills, the experience and the ability to honestly assess what he has seen and done.
It is easy to identify the commenters who have not researched their chosen subject. I learned decades back, for example, that: boat-tail bullets were created to extend the useable range of crew-served machine guns and further developed to win target shooting competitions at ranges out to 1,000 yards (or 1,100 and 1,200 yards in some locations). They obviously can be used in hunting cartridges but that was not the original intended use of that bullet conformation.
When this video came out 2 years ago I was looking into the 6.8 western and into getting one and that’s how I found this video!! After watching this video I decided to check out the 270 weatherby!! Well needless to say the 270 weatherby was what I ended up going with. I built the rifle on a terminus action and a krieger barrel 27 inches long with an 8 twist! And with the 150 grain swift A frame my rifle with Retumbo is running at 3230 fps!! Seriously devastating on deer and iv shot 5 with it this far only one has taken a step after the shot and it went about 60 yards and was done!! I’m glad I took randys advice on this cartridge!
6.8 western, in my opinion, is a 270 with a makeover. It is a good cartridge, I definitely believe so, given proper bullet choice for what you are hunting. The faster twist lets you shoot heavier bullets that are more aerodynamic, giving you more retained energy, less bullet drop, and less wind deflection. However I feel that the heavier bullets they are designing leave lots of gaps when it comes to medium to large game options, as you say, due to bullet construction. Great cartridge design, lots of potential, but still lots of room to grow.
what is wrong with the nosler accubond LR at any range on any game. you say room to grow, but the cartridge released with a bullet that has 90% weight retention at 2900 fps and 100% at 1800 fps but still expands to twice the size... what more room to grow IS there? a monolithic solid for buffalo?
@@hotramen5952 i think 6.8 is a great cartridge with lots of potential. But its still in its still new and may not make it long term. 6.8 shines with heavy high bc bullets. Otherwise you might just as well get a 270 Most of the bullets available were designed and intended for 270 with its slower twist and shorter throat. For the cartridge to survive and flourish, imho, there need to be more manufacturers chambered in 6.8 to make it more accessible. And there need yo be more heavy high bc offering. While the accubond can be a good option, 1 or 2 good bullet cannot carry a cartridge. For the price of a 6.8 in its current offerings i could get a savage and have a custom barrel cut with the fast twist and longer throat and do the same thing.
@@jonathanrogers9961 i agree we need more bullet options, i really want federal fusion personally as thats my favorite deer load. that said , a .270 win will not keep up with the heavier bullets even if you get one twisted for it. in factory ammo a 6.8 puts out 175 grain bullets faster than a 7mm rem mag...
Thanks for the video Randy I agree BC doesn't kill game without a good bullet and good shot placement you don't have what it takes to harvest game ethically and everyone should give all game the respect they deserve.i just don't see why people use bullets that just blow up on impact that are really just target bullets. Thanks again and God bless yall
the nosler accubond LR (the bullet from the article he references) is a bonded bullet that retains almost all its weight at max velocity. they "dont blow up."
I was part of 8 elk being taken this past hunting season by the 6.8 Western. In every case, the rifle/cartridge/bullet combo did the job very well. Out of 8 elk, we did lose one front quarter due to a bad shot placement, but that happens with EVERY cartridge. They were very nice rifles to shoot, with little recoil, and very accurate. Is it a bad cartridge? No, it’s not. Will it last in the shooting and hunting market like many of the older cartridges? I think probably not. The timing of the release was probably the worst thing about the 6.8 Western. It won’t be supported by ammo manufacturers like the 7mm PRC will be, and so will probably be eclipsed. I’m not sad about it, it didn’t fill a need for me, and didn’t do anything a lot of other cartridges already don’t do pretty well.
Sometimes I think marketing is the worst enemy of the shooting sports. I’ll stick with my 270win over the 6.8 western. I don’t need a new cartridge to get the job done. I have no issue trying something new, but there is a big difference between shooting paper and game. Being an ethical hunter is very important if we want to continue on with the sport. We are under enough criticism as is.
I am old and simple. I have been using Nosler partitions for over 30 years and have never looked for anything else. I haven't come up with a reason to alter from them. Guess I am missing out. Thanks Mr. Selby for another great video!
Thanks for putting out another great video .
If you can do the 8 inch twist on a 270 you can match that 6.8 western step for step. All you gotta do is change a barrel. And heavier Bullet construction absolutely does less damage to the rest of the meat. It just punches through and takes out the vitals without wasting too much of why you're hunting. I've only taken one long range hunting shot in my entire life. Because that of hundreds of hunts, only one had the right conditions to take. And that was with a 338 Lapua Magnum. On elk. He dropped right where he stood. And then I had to walk and climb and walk and climb because it was only 700 yards line of site, but it was a mile and a half up and down the hill. Which ment a 3 mile drag back to where I took the shot from. And I was already 5 miles in.
Randy tell it like it is your knowledge of how bullets are constructed and how they perform is very informative and an eye opener for a new hand loader ,i now have some projectiles that will be up for sale or put aside for target shoots only,bullet placement is key but having the right bullet to put in the right spot is equally important,keep talking sir and we will keep listening.
Thank you for your knowledge and honesty Mr. Selby. People need to watch your VDO on bullet construction.
Well I love tinkering and was thinking of getting a 6.8 only due to the fact I like the new copper monolithic bullets and I believe they do better in faster twist barrel.
The 162 copper impact in my browning X bolt will shoot 1/2” moa. It killed my pa deer and pa black bear worked perfect!!!!
Randy is right yet again! People should listen to his words of experience and common sense! Facts-not Fiction is what Randy gives people!
Right in some areas, less so in others. The Accubond LR has a good, thick copper base that makes it a great big game bullet. Winchester makes a solid copper bullet 6.8 load that is also great for big game. I would say he’s wrong in attacking the 6.8 for all the poorly constructed bullets created. Just about every caliber has loads with improper bullets billed for hunting. The 6.8 is what it is, and if nothing else, it is making heavier for caliber .277 bullets extremely available. These manufacturers can’t just load up heavy bullets in a regular 270, change the chamber, and the twist and sell it without legal ramifications. I.e., the “new” chambering. I certainly do agree that the marketing leaves a lot to be desired, but that is ALWAYS the case.
And do not get me wrong, I don’t support this new long range movement. If there was a way to legally limit shots to 300 yards, I’d be completely fine with it.
I have the highest respect for Randy because he tell the truth.
Thank you Randy , it is nice to get the true answers without all the run around. . So much of this is done in the industry anymore. Keep up the great work
Sorry to hear about Duke. I’m in my late 60’s and have hunted,handloaded , and shot 55+ years with many different rifles and cartridges. Randy is only one of a very few who has my full attention. I could not agree more with Randy in regards to B.C. You hear about a lot of super long distance shots, but I’m confident there are more sad stories from bad shooting and wounded game at those 500 plus yard shots along with under powered cartridges.
I sure appreciate your efforts, Randy.
i know you are speaking from the heart. people should listen to you.
Randy, i dont shoot anything above a 243win but i love listening to your knowledge of these bigger calibers. The info of what it takes to take game ethically is great. I feel like in today's world we are taking cartidges that are designed for long range target shooting and saying they are great hunting cartridges. I feel like the difference is, we are designing cartridges that are inherently accurate and low recoiling to be pleasant to shoot and saying they are good long range hunting cartridges. But what you've been explaining is, is that to harvest game at long range it takes lots of horsepower and energy to take game to kill ethically. I love what your saying and believe we need to take onto consideration the knowledge of folks like you that actually live this knowledgs!
Everyone that subscribes to your channel and has listen to your videos through and through should know that you run your channel with integrity and honesty. I have never even thought of you being sponsored. I know better than that! Now I don't condone 500 yd shots on game but if that is what a man is after, why not just use a 7mm mag shooting a partition bullet? You have a correctly engineered hunting bullet with enough powder to drive it the distance that you seek. Or am I missing something here... I love this channel and I love what you are doing Randy so keep doing it please.
"We're going to talk about the 6.8 westerner, I'm gonna give you the honest dope..."
*dog groans in background* 😂
Good common sense knowledge from a guy who knows what he's talking about. 👍
We just wish we could listen all day to Duke groaning as he settled down for a nap. Miss that old boy so very much!!
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith Sorry to hear that I didn't realise he'd passed away, it's never easy to say goodbye to a good dog.
All the best.
Love your information and stories. Thanks for the education!
You are doing a great svc to our country. Ty
Thanks you for the words of wisdom. Sorry to hear about your duke. Prayers to the family.
Thanks. It will have been a year the end of this month and it is still hard, he was such a huge part of our hearts!
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith thank you for the kind words. I know it’s hard for sure nothing can replace them. Also I wouldn’t mis a video any chance I can I tune in and watch. It’s pure passion and love for firearms and our hunting heritage. You folks are both special gems in our crazy world. Thanks for sharing
.277- bullet, 160 grain bullet has a high sectional density, a very important thing.
Good show. Thanks. The 270 Win.'s a go.
The significant advantage of the 6.8 Western is not a high BC bullet so that you can shoot at game 700 yards away. The advantage is that it will stabilize a 180g bullet in 277 caliber that will penetrate deeper because of its higher sectional density than you will get with a 270 Winchester. You don't have to use the thin walled accubond long range bullets. Use the bullet you prefer for normal hunting range and forget about the 650 yd unethical shots
that new barnes 155gr lrx looks great and I can't wait to get my hands on it.
A 270 win with a Nosler 150 partion will go all the way through a bull Elk at 300 yds ! I guess that’s not good enough !
I can just put a 1 in 8 twist barrel on my 270 Winchester for less cost then a new rifle and come to the same conclusion.
Deer dont die at the sound of BC I am tired of being told that I need a newer bullet. There are so many factors like sectional density, interior geometry, projectile composition, and sheer weight to name four alone. Killing paper is easy! Anything will do it! Well, not just anything will drop a big game animal. You have to have the right engineering and if it means that the hunter gets up and closes some distance for the kill, then that's hunting! I run a 60-year-old bullet and it is as close to perfect as it gets. I'll never switch from Partitions because they kill. It's proven every day of every season. And they are less expensive than most of the others too. I agree with you, Randy!
The 6.8 Western is great and does all it claims. Love it!
Does it claim any other ammo producers will take a chance loading this caliber? Cause right now it’s only Winchester that I can see.
Nothing more than 270 wsm. The 6.8 western is the case just the neck trimmed down .2020
I'm interested in the 6.8 because I am switching from lead to copper. Faster twist lets me shoot 160 gr coppers. No lead, high bc, high SD most importantly and will give me plenty of speed out to 350 yards. I don't shoot further than that at game anyway. Mostly, though, I use 110 or 117 grain hammers right now in my 270 winchester. Those start out at 3400 or there abouts and are great for deer. 160s would give me the ability to shoot larger game at 300 or so.
Thanks for all the knowledge randy. I stick to what i know what works. I try not to fall for all these hype job cartridges/target bullets...
I don’t hunt. I benchrest shoot. 6.8 western is basically my dream cartridge. I could certainly build a gun around that cartridge and destroy everything in its class and from 6.5 to 7mm easy breasy. Hunting… bullet selection, bullet placement, range. It’s not rocket science. High BC does not mean accurate not does it mean good hunting. Keep in mind I’m a 270 win fan boy more than anyone. Just saying the 6.8 western is hands down better for a handloading benchrest shooter.
While I typically appreciate your videos and opinions, lately I cant help my self from asking, when they necked down the 06 to 270 Winchester how many old timers claimed "we've gotten way off track"
Best comment on here
BINGO! This guy makes the average, everyday, garden variety curmudgeon look like Pee Wee Herman! 😂
I like that 257 weatherby with 80gr ttsx for mule deer
Maybe Barnes bullets would be a good choice also. Nosler partitions are the old dependables.
I've had great success with Barnes out to 400+ yards. I don't call myself a long range hunter, but occasionally that is what is required. I practice shooting year-round, running a thousand or so rounds through my rifle every year. My confidence at shooting under 500 yards is as high as it can be, understanding the environmental factors (uncertainty) we are faced with in the field. With that in mind, I will only take a shot over 400 yards if all conditions are perfect for such a shot. Any time I take a long shot, I do so knowing that Barnes will achieve the kind of penetration and do the damage needed to put down large game at distance. You, obviously, know what you are talking about when it comes to terminal ballistics. Cheers!
My 6.8 western is hand loaded with 150 grain partitions, velocity right at 3200 fps. I agree bullet means everything. 150 partitions have a bc of .465 depending on elevation and temp. Good video, I personally want to be 500 yards or closer, the 6.8 is very accurate with 150 partitions. 160 partitions are semi spire points very accurate also, good close range bullets. Great video good content
Always a pleasure learning from your videos Randy.
Can you give an in depth honest vid like this on the 6.5prc. For mule/whitetail deer out to 500... Love to hear the breakdown of this caliber...
I believe he has done a talk on the 6.5 prc, there should be a video on his channel.
I appreciate your opinion and experience , and I would like your opinion of the speer grandslam bullet.
Thanks for your honesty Randy. If I was there I'd buy ya breakfast and a cup.
Thanks
Right on!!! i love my 300 weatherby and my 338-378 weatherby!!!
This long range shooting craze should instead be called--long range wounding.
Unfortunately I know some of these long range IDIOTS!!!! If they shoot at game over 600 yds and the animal does not show signs of being hit, they won't even go over and look for blood or the animal. I'm sick of it and regularly voice my opinion. Lost friends over it. Take care and good hunting!
@@davidfornkahl8374 I wish you good hunting as well.
@@davidfornkahl8374 thank you for speaking your opinion….. Montana Game and Fish estimates wounding loss at 15 to 30% every year……………. This long range murder needs to be halted or it might just be the demise of our big game hunting altogether
…..of course todays youth will most likely not listen……….
Long range shooting or long range hunting?
@@joshwilcox8941 I stand corrected---it's this new long range 'hunting' craze where our game animals are being used for target practice at ridiculous distances -is what I don't agree with. If they want to shoot paper targets or steel plates etc etc at 20 miles, go right ahead. Thank you for pointing that out. I wish you good hunting this fall.
I like my 6.8 ,going to load partition bullets in it for next deer season.
Hi I’m a big game guide..I’ve done a lot of shooting and seen a lot shooting for over 40 years. I like the 6.8 western I think it has the potential to be the next 270 win, here’s why ;
:High bc. Better penetration (with good expansion ability) is a good thing!
:Moderate recoil. If you flinch like a Like a rabid coyote and piss your pants when shoot it, you won’t practice enough. Putting the bullet where you want it is a good thing!
:Short action. . When you have to hoof over ugly ground for a mile and use more than one bottle of nitro glycerine! You need to lighten your load! lighter weight, shorter length is a good thing!
:Average price of cartridges. All hunters can afford to practice. Practice shooting is a good thing.(And I’m not talking about bench rest! A one eyed squirrel with three fingers can shoot from a bench! Stand up and shoot!
: decent point blank range in the mid to upper 300s. Not having to bring a spotter,wind meter,trigonometry calculator, temperature, humidity metre. Etc. just up and shoot! (Remember you’ve been practicing) That’s a good thing!
: versatile .Not to much for coyotes and I wouldn’t be afraid to go for a moose! Good for all. That’s a good thing!
: long range fun. The nice little true 7 mm bullets don’t care too much about wind! Couple that with 7 1/2 to 8 inch twist rate and you got a nice long range cartridge. That’s a good thing!
Once I called a nice big bull moose in for a couple of (experienced) clients, they proceeded to Broadside the surprised swamp donkey with a matching pair of Browning autos in 338 a deafening roar of what seemed like fully automatic fire and the screams of I’m out I’m out reload reload echoed Across the once peaceful marsh. The moose stumbled off into the bush unseen. I guess because of the smoke from a small grass fire in front of the blind and the mass confusion of boxes of amo being ripped apart the shiny brass cartridges flying around the small blind like lead confetti. After coming out of my shell shock I gained control of the two still smoking Browning autos and let hunters know the moose had gotten away. I convinced my two friends to stay put and not load their firearms grabbed my old 30-30 and started tracking. Although there was surprisingly very little blood (that I later contributed that to the extreme muzzle flash lol) Tracking was not that hard due to 1700lb adrenaline powered beast knocking over a lot of trees for about 300 yards I finished the job. Wasn’t a lot of good meat on the one side. Unfortunately I have seen this too many times with cartridges with even more hitting power than the 338. I guess my point is even if you have a high powered rifle with good bullets you still have to hit what you’re aiming at if want a clean kill.
I know what you’re saying about some of the bullets available right now but with better bullets in the future the 6.8 western is going to be even better. Time to put the 270 win to bed.
Well put.
Good information. Another example "if it ain't broke--no need to fix it''.
Randy is spot on. I built a 6.5x300 win mag. 142 accubond long range at 3350. I shot a whitetail buck at 300 yards. Impact velocity around 2800. It blew so bad it did not make it through the shoulder blade. My uncle shoots a 260 remington. Maybe they will behave in that but junk when you push them fast. I called Nosler. On the box they print velocity unlimited!! What a joke!!! The man at nosler said (well they are meant for long range) I would not buy another box on a bet. It is a shame federal will not up production on their terminal accent. That is the ONLY lead high BC bullet that works near to far. I have never been good at telepathing to an animal how far away to show up lol. Now I use only hammer and bulldozer bullets by badlands precision. Always open and cannot blow up.
" The 6.8 westerners "
I wish that I had 10 boxes of the 160 partition, but I don't know if they will ever be made again, I have not seem them produced in a while.
Thanks for sharing we always enjoy your videos, learn much and have a Blessed Day an happy Hunting. As you said we have a problems with Wolves.
I have always and will always use my Winchester Model 88 .308.
I have taken everything from coyote to moose and bear with it, and have always used a 150 gr SP bullet.
If you can place your shot with the gun you use for years it will always work.
To many times have i seen long range shots from people with "new" guns and bullets that shot it 5 times before they came hunting and miss every shot.
Ive used my .308 for 30 years. Best bush gun on the planet in my humble opinion.
To be honest i will never switch.
I DID NOT KNOW IF I LIKE IT BECAUSE I LIKE THE 270 AND THE 06/30, TODAY I USE THE 308 OF 125, BUT I SUPPOSE THAT AS LONG AS IT IS A FLAT TAIL IT WILL WORK, SEDINITIVELY I DID NOT HAVE GOOD RESULTS IN 165
Look objectively at the info. and make up your own mind without poo pooing Randy. I have hunted my whole life and have opinions about rifles etc etc but have learned more from the Real Gunsmith than any other source. Thanks and God Bless Randy & Cathy
It makes you think that we've come so far in trying to make shooting easier that we're losing point of what makes a good shot and that's the person holding the rifle. People dog the 308 but it used to be the 308 was the sniper caliber of choice for the US military before that it was your grandpa's 30-06. Put a good gun in the hands of a great shooter and put a great gun in the hands of a good shooter and see who comes up on top
Pray tell how Wayne got 3120 fps with na 150gr bullet out of a 270 Winchester.
Another fine video Randy. Thank you. And always speaking the truth and the reality of this new craze of long range shooting of game. Such foolishness
I will stick with my go to 270 don't need nothing else but a well placed shot within 200 yards
In 1977 I made up a 30 338 I shot 200 nosler partition handloads at a muzzle velocity of 3050 fps It never let me down on Wyoming elk it was fast flat and effective I never used it over 525 yards and that was the longest shot I ever used it on one shot kill right in the crease
🤠 I Love your point on the changing B.C. of the bullets and the Serria bullet only comming out of the muzzle at just over 2,800 ft/s! Bullets are what kill the game - Period! Yes, velocity is every bit as important as the bullet weight - because it is what helps the bullet to perform right (alot of people don't seem to understand that concept either - another great point)! Actually, in the formula, velocity is squared - while the bullet weight is not! GREAT DISCUSSION (I agree that ethics always should be a part of the discussion)! Why bullet quality is so overlooked is beyond me - though I do prefer to use the heaviest bullets in any caliber that I am hunting with to maximize it's killing potential! But, I would also love to hear your thoughts on the 280 AI next! 👍😉
🤠 The resting B.C. of the bullet is not what matters, nor is the resting bullet diameter! Until the bullet leaves the muzzle and strikes the animal, nothing regarding bullet performance can be adequately evaluated - just predicted! So, here is another interesting topic for you to discuss - the powder pushing that bullet (i.e. temperature stable powder vs. non-temperature stable powders)! I just got put on to Reloader 16 and went Shopping for H4831SC, H4831, and H1000 for my 270 Winchester! Velocity is important, but accuracy and consistency are even more important - "if you can't put the bullet where it is supposed to go, then nothing else matters!" Most people have a hard time doing that much (and that is even at "ethical" hunting distances), but that is another topic for another day! These are usually the same people that are talking about taking 1/2 mile shots at game animals too! 😱
🧐 Mabey Randy can give us his take on the 280 AI? 🤑
@@ronlowney4700 he has in a couple videos. At least made mention when comparing it to the 7 mag.
I would like your opinion of my model 70 Winchester in 7mmstw with nobler 175 grain bullets
Nosler makes heavy .277 calibre bullets now . The 270wsm still out performs the 6.8 with a 150 ablr
Seems like the stocks on some of the x-bolts are awful flimsy. I think they are overpriced myself but I’m not keen on a lot of this new stuff
Thank you, for sharing you vast knowledge.
I bought a 6.8 western because it was all I could find ammo for. I did NOT buy it because I thought it was better.
This is why I fallow your channel / information..
My old sportsman 78 .270 has been around for a long time and all I have to say is that them there other outfits ain't gonna kill anything any deader than my old sportsman 78 using the 150 gr. Partition smack dab in the boiler room.
You are correct in your advise Mr Selby. The two things i look at in a bullet for game is construction first, and sectional density 2nd. BC is way overrated. A Frames are my favorite. Get a well constructed bullet with a sectional density of 300 or better and go hunting
🤠 A-Frame's are my favorite bullet too! But, here is the problem with "Sectional Density" - once the bullet strikes the animal, that immediately changes! So, bullet "performance" is totally based on "bullet construction"! And, since the A-Frame is esentially a "Bonded Nosler Partition", it mushrooms beautifully and cinsistantly every time and has no core jacket separation (unlike the cup and core Nosler Partition)! It has proven itself in Africa against the toughest of game Animals in the World and shoots well out of Big Magnums because of it's flat based bullet design (boat tails don't often stabalize as well in real high velocity calibers, but the flat based ones often do, and provide greater consistency in performance/accuracy)! So, if your shooting the 150 grain 0.277 diameter bullet or 0.308 diameter 200 grain bullet, their B.C.'a are both 0.444! Not bad, but not an issue if you are shooting at reasonable ranges anyway! If their is a tougher bullet out their, it will only be in a monolithic solid, but not a good performing bullet for medium sized "Big Game" like elk (we aren't hunting Cape Buffalo 🐃 in North America, unless it is some Texas "game farm", which I wouldn't do anyway)! So, you have chosen well! 🦌🏆
Your point is well taken on sectional density changing once said bullet strikes an animal. Still, all else being equal, i would rather have a longer heavier bullet in any given caliber striking an animal than a shorter lighter one. Especially on elk size game or larger where penetration can be an issue. Heavy for caliber A Frames are thee best expanding bullets made for that job IMHO!
I am so sorry to hear about your hound. They are like our children here.
i am old,shooting for 50 years,i do not under stand people think one gun can do it all, i shoot 3 guns a 25-06 a 300h&h and a under and over 308 scrub gun,the 2 rifles have the wright barrels 26 inch with the wright twist and good trigers, with a good scope the 308 has a good open scope for close work,i use differnt bullits range and hunting, my 25-06 shoots as well as all this new fancy stuff, i go to the range most weeks ,that is more important than a fancy rifles, i read all your comment and think the same as Mike
I've been very happy with accubond and partitions...Hornaday anything not so much
Hornady bullets suck for huntin. I use accubonds and partitions too.
If you’re shooting big game at 300 yards or less BC numbers mean absolutely nothing. Ever. Period. The construction and placement of the bullet is all that matters.
Maybe true in some situations but better bc is never a bad thing.
@@rockie307 I agree, it’s not a bad thing but if you’re shooting a big game animal at 300 yards or less it makes no difference.
Thank you sir, another great lecture. I wish I could afford to have you build a rifle to replace my beloved but recently departed Ithica LSA55 chambered in 6mm rem.
Randys points are common sense . # 1 Optics , people at my local range shooting 22 silhouette at ranges out to 100 yards & they mount Optics on a 22 rimfire that is madness . Eg : 4 to 24 x 56 mm object lens . With the high mounts it makes the best gun a chore to use . At the end of the day you have only got to see out to 100 yards . I think a 2x7 to 30 is all that's required Max ! On calibres , know your limits ! Just because a book tells you or a salesman says so doesn't mean it's right . To give you a practical example is my experience with the 22/250 cartridge . I have personally owned four of them & shot the barrels out . My current 22/250 wears a 1"&1/8 no taper barrel . It's 16 & a half pounds with its second barrel . Shoot foxes , goat & pigs . My go to load is 60 grn hornady flat based hollow points . Every fox was a head shot & goats & pigs depend on range . In my gun cabernet I have a 6mm Ackley Improved & 300 WM and a 375 H&H . I also have loaded 223 , 270 , 30-06 , 8x57 Mauser , 30-30 Winchester & handguns , my first was a 357 security six . Moved on to a 686 distinguished combat commander . Heavily modified . My CZ-75 in 9mm was my first venture into IPSC . IF you disagree with Randy you are a fool & so Am I .
I love my new 6.8 western with a 26 inch barrel Im getting 2825 fps with a 175 gr sierra game king. From Noslers reloading date the fastest speeds I could see was 2820 with a 160 grain bullet. Im shooting just over half inch groups and I am not even at max load charge so I am sure I could get even faster speeds out of my 6.8 wester. At the end of the day, cool cartridge and if people want it get it, if you get so hung up on we shouldn't push the boundaries of what we know when it comes to guns then shoot a 30-06 grandpas old rifle, probably kill just as dead as any other .30 caliber hunting cartridge. I really like that we are pushing the boundaries of what we know and I encourage further testing of new cartridges. That being said Hornady please make brass for your cartridges you come out with abundant to the public before you create a new round.
Thank you for saying the truth.
Hate to tell ya but the 6.8 western and 6.5 prc are very good cartridges!!
He didn’t say they weren’t. He said target bullets and thin jacketed bullets aren’t good for hunting. Also said that the 6.5 Western doesn’t really do anything the 270 can’t accomplish especially with the same bullets and powders and twist rates. Happens a lot, mostly to sell more guns. Sales of guns on a popular caliber slow down they turn out another cartridge and call it the next best thing. It isn’t best and does nothing an existing cartridge doesn’t except sell more guns to people who don’t take the time to consider whether they have one that’ll do the same work. I didn’t even have to listen for long to get that out of it. I wonder how you got something that wasn’t said.
I agree. The newer advancements are hard to swallow but they are better. I agree with his statements on thin jacketed bullets and rifle companies marketing fire arms for distances that are ridiculous. He is correct. He never reviewed the 6.8 “Westerner”!!! Why? Because he used a story he heard from a friend of a friend on shooting an elk five times after he said he only tells facts about what he sees! All he has seen is a article and some ballistic information that none of us really know is correct or not. I’ve shot a lot of game with the 6.8 (no elk) and it definitely drops em harder than the good ole 270 with a 130 grain bullet. I agree with a lot of what he said but we didn’t get a good review. It’s hard for some people to like new things and hopefully he gets the chance to use the 6.8 with a good bullet
Does anybody see this guy saying “Ahhhh…humbug!”? lmao
He definitely a Hornaday hater I do agree about thin jacket bullets for elk but for whitetail the eldx works just fine for me.
He is not really criticizing the cartridges. He is criticizing the way they are being promoted and the compromises they are choosing.
Most people don't have a clue and they really don't get that a bullet that works at 800 yards is unlikely to be the right choice at 200 yards fired at the same muzzle velocity.
I suspect that 6.8 Western would have done a lot better on that Elk if he had been using 180 gr Woodleigh Weldcore. They have no problem dropping similar size African Antelope.
Sorry for your loss
I agree with and understand you're opinion 100%. Ballistics are no more complicated then a man throwing a rock "projectile" at an animal.
This guy is so full of it. A 150 grain bullet out of the .270 Winchester at 3120 is so far above Sammy limits for pressure. It should be outlawed and so should he. He obviously has an agenda and is talking out his, well, you know.😊 8:37
Any opinion on a 270wsm (Kimber) 10 inch twist using 160 gr as a hunting round?
A good load.
Thanks for watching.
What if I loaded 140,130 grain nosler, barnes or swift bullet up for the 6.8 western? I know it’s basically the same as the 270 wsm but it’s hard to find anything chambered in the cartridge around me. Is the 6.5 prc a better route to look at? Just for hunting whitetail deer but want something that shoots flat.
I would choose a .270 Win with these bullets.
Good shooting.
Thanks for watching.
Have you done a video on the all copper bullets?
Not at this time.
Thanks for watching.