As you say Randy, load development is a process of subtle changes. A different bullet, powder charge, different powder, different primer to get the most accurate load. Great information and another great video and I always enjoy your videos.
I have only been reloading for 10 years. I can honestly say. This is spot on. People's ego gets in the way of true science. Or savvy as one knowledgeable gent should say.
I agree wholeheartedly.I enjoy finding the pet loads for different rifles.Ive never had the luck of owning a custom rifle,only factory rifles.Ive always been able to take rifles that shoot factory loads all over the place,and with a little work,find loads that will shoot 1" or less for five shot groups.Many times,I pick the bullet I want,and then find a powder and load that shoots it to the group size that works for me.A perfect example of how things can change though,is I had a great load for a Ruger M77 in 06,using 180gr. Barnes X bullet.I was getting ready for an elk hunt,and thought I had my load,but I had to buy more bullets,and loaded some for the hunt.I took some to the range just to make sure it still shot right.When I shot my group,it shot over 3" for a three shot group.I shit another group,same thing.So I started talking to people I know that really keeps up with things,and come to find out that Barnes had change the ogive on the bullet some,thus causing my rifle to not like them anymore,or at least not with that charge.All of that just to say this,just because your rifle may not like one thing,keep trying and experimenting,you will find combinations that will work.As Randy said here,that is the fun and challenge of reloading.Yiull have great pride in knowing that you took a rifle that is shooting so so groups and turning it into a tack driver.
Always looking forward too see if you two have a new video out. Thank you both for sharing all of your videos with us. Lots of love to both of you & God bless you !!!
Growing up with absolutely no standards in accuracy because we were not allowed to hunt deer with rifles in my state, I was never interested in this type of accuracy. I never knew what the term actually meant. I am absolutely pleased to get around 1 to 1.5 inch groups out of any factory rifle I have now and compared to 6" groups at 100 yds with rifled slugs from a smooth bore we are miles ahead of where we were when I was younger. Your talking about striving for less than .5 inches. Amazing and thank you for your knowledge. I switched to a muzzleloader for all seasons when inlines became popular in the 90s looking for those one hole groups, and never looked back until they made straight wall cartridges legal. Now I shoot a 45/70 guide gun with 300 gr jhp handloads. I have some 405 gr hard cast but they tear up a lot of meat. The 300 gr behind the shoulder is perfect and kills like lightning and group about 1.5" at 100 yds. Which is about what I would get from my inline with 250 gr. sabots and 90 he of pyrodex.
I developed a load for my Browning A-bolt 25-06, using 4831 powder and Barnes TSX 100gr bullets. I used 4 different loading references, 3 of the 4 listed 54gr as the max charge, except my Nosler#3, which said 56 was max. I loaded up 20 rounds from 52gr to 55.8gr, shot them over a chronometer, found 2 powder nodes, selected 55.2gr as the charge. Then I played with bullet seating depths until I got to a 4 shot group at .78 inches. I shot 40 rounds to find a load, maybe I didn't do it perfectly or maybe I went about it differently than some would have done it, but it sure is satisfying when you see your changes make the groups tighter.
Barnes bullets wouldn't work well with data from other bullet manufacturers. Glad it worked out for you, but Barnes have a higher shot start pressure and are longer for their weight than jacketed bullets. Thus they need less powder to get to top pressure.
im a 50 yo guy/kid.kid at heart ,grew up in ,and live in connecticut,not much elk,or long range shooting in my world. i dont know anything about shooting. all i know about guns is the wood guns are beautiful i love old wood guns! my point is. i can watch and listen to this man all day! very very interesting . everything this man says is worth hearing . i am interested in shooting long rang,and maybe hunting . so much to learn . aroung here we used to duck,phesant,hunt. nowadays most of the land is gone. subdivisions asfar as you can see . anyway ty for this channel and the videos . i enjoy them all very much .and ty for sharing your knowledge. i really hope someone carries on this mans legacy , knowledge , etc . ty again ......
i almost forgot i have a .50 cal TC hawken muzzle loader , i love black powder ! love shooting my hawken . 80-90 grains i guess ya call it ,and a round ball .at 50 yards open sights .i can put it almost in same hole ...lots of smoke and fun ! hadtothrow this in ..lol
I gotta watch these at 1.5× so it's at regual speed ...I would usually dismiss these know it all folks but I trust when this guy says he knows he actually does know
Took me over 50 rounds to finally figure out an acceptable load for my latest rifle. Part of that was a broken scope ring in the middle of it but the main thing that tightened my groups was trying different primers as Randy recommends.
Totally agree with you, one thing we must take inconsideration, We live in different times every one wants an instant gratification & want it now it’s the new norm. Thank you for informative upload Ahmad
I have a .340 Weatherby that I couldn't get to shoot that great. Finally, after years of shooting factory ammo and even handloads, I found the rifles favorite loads. 185 grain Barnes TTSX bullets. Going around 3100 fps. 1 inch groups or less is now the norm. I'm still experimenting!
The winds always blowing in west Texas too . Almost every day when the gunrange just opens. It is a rare opportunity to shoot in ideal conditions out here. I have a logbook that has the pet load for my beloved hunting rigs just like he's doing. He's telling it like it is, and that's why I reload myself, extreme accuracy at a fraction of the cost, and you know exactly what it is.
When I start working up a load I start with the charge wight and increase it until I get good velocity and see low SD numbers. Then I work with the seating depth to tighten up the group. We all know that every cartridge is different and certain powders are suitable for each. As a general rule I look for a powder that yeilds a full case b4 it causes over pressure charges. I have nowhere the experience of most but I do understand I will never know everything and will continue to learn until I'm in the ground
Good video. I have been reloading for close to 50 years. All true what you said. I have a 270 that would not group and would kick straight back with a terrible wollap, finally checked the bedding and made it free floated then added a heavier butt to force the center of mass back slightly. Worked up a group with 4350 imr and a 140gr boat tail. Shot groups under 1inch and soft recoil. Learned the lesson to feel how the recoil along with barrel vibration. Tune the load to the barrel.
Thank you for this video. I only wish I could have seen you back in the 60's when I started out shooting my Mauser based 244 Remington. Younger shooters here should keep this video and review it many times, whenever they run into load development. Unfortunately, after being disappointed with many load combinations, I sold that rifle. Another of my regrets. Thanks again!
The nut behind the trigger causes most problems with any firearm. I have seen the same thing with handguns. A firearm is not a fashion statement but many people shoot them like they are, and that causes problems.
Finally someone that reloads and when starting off gets bad groups like I do. He's using a great rifle and his reloading experience and not getting much better than I do at first. How refreshing! Of course once I find a load that shoots under an inch I'm satisfied for the type of hunting I do here on the east coast. Last fall when starting off with a new bullet, my first charge shot close to half an inch! I didn't know what to do next! Still haven't decided. I have to tell you that this is the best group I've ever shot with this rifle. The velocity is a little low and I bought the bullet to try and extend my maximum range on moose but the low velocity isn't helping much. I'll keep trying other charges because I know the rifle likes the bullet. Wish me luck.
@Jess Hadlock Older Sako Forrester in 7mm-08 shooting 160 grain Federal TBT at 2540. ES was 5. No visible pressure or measurable case expansion. Its a very long bullet and my mag is the limiting factor. Lots of jump. I really don't expect much more from my combination and should just load the rest. It would be my eastern moose load with a limit of 250-300 yards with a good presentation.
I was once loading 308 with 168 hornady match for a long rang plinking load using varget. It was a new and inexpensive gun so I was beginning to think 1.5" was the best I could expect, SD was in the high teens as well. Swapped WLR primers for REM LR and SD dropped to 8-ish and .5-ish for the group size. For hunting moose, I would continue to experiment until I found a good load at higher muzzle energy or until you have to sight the rifle in before the hunt starts.
You didn't say it, but with your approach to building a load, it follows a principle that I always state when others ask for suggestions - "don't be afraid to try something different and shoot your gun more." It surprises me how many handloaders expect to find that accuracy result and down deep it pains them if they have to shoot they gun more than a minimum number of times. I generally approach handloading as a great opportunity to shoot more - GOOD!. I don't follow your approach in detail, but the general approach of try this, change one item, when you start to see results you like - start zeroing in on that recipe. I also appreciate your approach of measuring the cartridge base expansion as another method to identify pressure signs. Not many people do that. It's a simple step, that requires very basic tools to measure for consideration. If you could touch on a subject in a future video - what are your thoughts on the recently introduced Savage straight pull? I'm giving it serious consideration, for one reason because I am a left handed shooter. It may allow me to purchase a gun that does not depreciate in value so much because there are no right handed shooters that are interested in my left hand bolt actions. The ambidextrous nature of the gun may serve my needs well, and retain value as it's still a right handed gun for anyone that may want it to be right handed. But I would like to hear your thoughts on the integrity and strength of the action?
My gunsmith who shoots competition he is older so only shoots at 100 yrds but 5 round groups almost always go in the same hole a little egging but not much. He told me years ago he had a lot of people that wanted him to watch them at the range to see if he could pick up what they were doing wrong most times he told them that they are doing everything right at the range as far as shooting mechanics but where they are loosing their accuracy is on the bench. He would bring them to his shop at no cost and work up a load, show his in and outs of reloading and improve their game he built guns for people in all of the United States except Hawaii. He had vary high skills in gunsmithing maybe not Randy's skills but the best in our area he did most services dirt cheap and would give free info out to competition he was a class act I miss him very much he died last February. That being said he was training his son in law in the business which has worked out well he is good but not as cheap as the old man
Thanks again for the knowledge and yeah some times you have to keep trying right ,,,don't laugh to laud men but I have a Mossberg Patriot 308 she is a shooter lol,,thanks to Randy .I love to shot and reload jam about 60 now never to proud to listen .see you on the next one
Most of the people that complain about their rifles are shooting factory loaded rounds and sometimes that just don't work I have a remington 338 rum and it shoots 4 inch groups with factory remington ammo but .5 inch groups with my hand loads
i grew up shooting .243 and reloading for it. my dad had worked up a load that would shoot inch or less groups in all 4 of our .243 rifles. 30 years later I decided to start reloading, and spent all summer working up a load for my .270 and went thru exact experience just described. I was amazed at the difficulty in coming up with a load. I finally got it, after much head shaking and some profanity...lol
@@rickterrance4981 got that right been wanting to try a different grain bullet in my rum but don't want to burn a lb of powder to do it that I can't replace
I’ve just been blowing money stacking up different powders and primers as I can find them. It’s hard to start reloading right now. I got lucky finding a forester coax online tho
Thank you for sharing what you have learned up until now. I'm looking forward to many more years of it. I consider every rifle, and cartridge combination a classroom. You have attended more classes than many of us put together, so I find your conclusions valuable. Alot of the RUclips reloaders never show a mic in their videos, they do show their digital caliper to measure COAL, but never get around to measuring case head expansion. They are reading primers and bolt face marks on the case heads to judge pressure. The $300.00 rifle and scope combo often leave cratered primers at obviously low pressures, and when they pierce a soft cup primer, they declare that they have exceeded a max load, even though when they started the video, they stated Quickload predicted 55k psi, on a 63k psi cartridge. At this point I am trusting Quickloads prediction more than the "guru's' conclusion on pressure. Bush the firing pin and use a suitable primer, and track case head expansion and we can have a discussion. They not only may not have reached their best velocity, but also not reached the most accurate load. Not knocking the $300 rifle combo as it is perfect for the guy that can get through 3 deer seasons on 1 box of factory ammo, but it would be interesting to see the initial expansion of factory ammo. Are they chambered as carefully as the firing pins are fitted? Question for Randy: A long time ago when I was young and gun writers were old (but younger than I now am), they would frequently shoot 10 shot groups fired at a slow pace at 200 yards. Now that bullets are so much better, is this practice still beneficial?
I've only ever gotten lucky once when hand loading. First 5 were loaded up some .308 with federal brass, cci 250 magnum primers, 46 grains of H380, and Hornady 168 grain match bullets
Same here but unfortunately it wasn’t my rifle lol. My brother owns a beautiful wood stocked Winchester model 70 that absolutely shoots everything and anything I’ve ever loaded for it under an inch for 5 shots, and in some cases one ragged hole lol. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to get that rifle from him several times lol
Hey when this man speaks you shut up and listen because he’s dropping knowledge you can take to the bank!!!! Thank you for the videos and taking the time to teach !!
It takes a lot of work to get it done. It is always very rewarding when you finally get it done after 50- 60 rounds of fireformed brass with the right col.
Mr. Gunsmith, any chance you would do a video on your current reloading setup and process? While there’s several good reloading channels on RUclips, You have a great understanding of reloading and the way you are able to cut through the crap, would be a great addition to the knowledge of others! Thanks
Lots of information as usual Randy. I'm sure we've all started out with patterns liking to a shotgun instead of groups like a rifle, Lord knows I sure have.
Rifles are funny sometimes, Its really an art to get one to shoot good. I had a , I think it was a savage svsd in 308 , it only liked 110, and 168s, no matter what I did, it would not shoot 150s , nothing but 168s and 110 bullets, took me more than a year but , I got it running like a sewing machine. Great videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Hope y'all doing good!!!
It all comes down to barrel harmonics and whip. The old master is explaining how to find the frequency a barrel likes. At 51 years old I own one store bought rifle that groups factory loads. On the other hand I've got a hand built mountain gun that shoots 1/4" groups with me shooting it(I'm not a good bench shooter) after days of work up that started at 4" groups. Randy's explanation is the only way your going to find the sweet spot if it doesn't shoot from the start. I always look forward to hearing what you have to say Randy.
First consistent combustion. Second barrel harmonics. Consistent combustion by selecting best primer, powder, powder charge, case brand, neck tension, etc. A low muzzle velocity standard deviation is a good metric of consistent combustion. Barrell harmonics by selecting best cartridge base to ogive length.
Thanks for the advise. I’m not a reloaded but it’s absolutely fascinating. I bought a $370 30-06 savage axis with scope. Due to limited availability of ammo I purchased 150gr bullets which garnered a 2.4” shot group. The next box was 168gr SGK 1.1” shot group Then 180gr Cor-Lol .9” shot group and then I finally found 178gr ELD-X .6” shot groups. I wonder if bullet weight is relative to barrel twist and length. Gotta make sure all the screws are torqued properly. I found that out the hard way.
Happy new year from Australia Randy. Very interesting subject, I have found changes to groups in 338 W/M caused by the season. I hunt in area's that have high humidity and 35-40 degC temps and the group can clover leaf then take it hunting in dry cooler 25-32 degC little humidity and they will group out 1"-1.5" out of the same box. I don't change projectile weight (225gn SST) or primers WLRM I just reduce powder by .5gn and they tighten back up. It is an amazing science. Thank you. Grate filming by your wife. Stay safe.
I have been debating getting into handloading because I have a 90's era browning a-bolt 7mm rem mag that averages 1.5-2.0 inch groups with factory ammo. I was considering selling the rifle thinking it was a problem with the rifle. This gives me hope that with the proper loads I might be able to get it to consistently shoot MOA or better.
I’ve been resizing my brass so the bolt just snugs up at the end when the bolt closes. That’s what Randy said! And a bench rest shooter told me bump your should 1-2thou I measure and it’s the same what Randy said. He knows his stuff.
Guns are like people know 2 are alike but some do have a lot of the same characteristics and until you get to know them you are not going to know what they like and dislike!
Having the very problem you are talking about with a 270 win. rem. 700bdl. Been using imr 4064 for years out of this 22" bbl. Thanks for the ideas . gonna look it over once more. Seems like the older i get, the less i know. From Idaho
Here is my takeaway from your video; You were not able to make your reloads shoot acceptable groups but found a box of factory Hornady ammo which shot tight groups. Now as a fellow reloader my question is what was problem with the reloads? I have experienced same issue and areas that I tweak include distance bullet is off lands, brass (Lapua is my choice), primers (mag, target, standard), powder, bullet type/weight, and finally making sure barrel is free floated. Believe you commented that powder and primers were changed which did not resolve problem. I have found factory ammo that shoots well in my guns but never ran into a situation that my reloads could not be made to shoot as well and usually better than factory. I enjoy your videos and appreciate you and your wife teaming up to share your extensive background in the hunting, rifle making, and shooting business.
You didn't listen well. I used Hornady 180 gr SST BULLETS. I do not use factory ammo. Furthermore, my reloads did shoot with this bullet. Every rifle likes a different bullet/component combination, even rifles built of the exact same components. I put 60+ years of doing this and I believe I know how to wring top accuracy than it appears you do. Cartridges are just that. Bullets are not cartridges or ammo, well, only in the movies. Did you, for instance, "put bullets" in your rifles? It would be pretty silly to just put a bullet in a rifle. Totally worthless. A bullet, with case, primer and powder is a cartridge. Alone it is just that, a bullet. Alone. And I said nothing of using a different cartridge.
was able to get .750 group w/ 180 gr sst in 300 win ADL factory, load matters. that same rifle years latter was rebarreled, receiver was out of square, rust under left side of lug and barrel .
With low consistent SD's and repeated group size of the same measurements you may want to adjust distance from the lands. Start on the lands and work back. I'm sure you are aware of this, not sure why it wasn't mentioned.
randy rebarreled my 300 win mag with a trued up remington action and a brux barrel and he knows what the hell hes doing. it punches hornady match bullet through the same hole at 3150 fps it is accurate . i can hit pie plates at thousand yards almost every time
+ Question ~ in the situation with belted cartridges, is the belt dual functioning? Meaning, as I understand it, it can be for headspacing but was the original intent to strengthen the case head as well? Keep up the excellent content 👍🏻🙏🏻✝️
I love to set down and do the same thing with my black powder rifles I can change power , patch, or ball weight and get a 50 cal too 1" at 100 yards just keep working till you get it how u want it
I could use some help with a load for my .260 rem. . It's a browning A bolt micro hunter with a 1:9 twist with a 20 inch barrel. Tried alot of different powders and bullets. No luck. Thanks for any help you can give me.
Randy, I've been a toolmaker/machinist for over 20 years and have some good mics. What kinds of changes are you looking for when measuring the head of the brass? .0001 - .0005? .001 - 2? And what do I do with this measurement? Is it just an objective way to measure when you're approaching or over pressure?
For me it was part of my enjoyment in handloading was the search of the right combination for the particular rifle. With my loss of vision I have quit loading due to fear of making mistakes. I do have a question. What's your opinion on Vhit vouri powder line? I was experimenting with N540 with good luck in the old 30-06 in P17 Remington factory action I had built. I just found out my buddy I use to build, load,shoot, and hunt with out of kemmer passed away.
Randy ,how would you style or build a rifle for Jungle Hunting for a PAC officer today ( problem animal control) , one who also has maneating Leopard and Tiger on his list of animals to encounter with as part of his work schedule?
Peep sights and a rifle you know will function every time, in a caliber that will take them out with a single shot. Bolt or lever rifle. It is my understanding there are certain caliber restrictions, but I am not familiar with what they may be. Lightweight. Stainless. Thanks for watching. Good shooting!
Hello mr gunsmith, what do you think of Eric Cortina’s videos on Load development. Would be very interested in your thoughts. Eric Cortina is an F Class shooter for the USA.
Good day sir in my country the closest you can get to a rifle is a high power. 177 air rifle but many rifle aspects are related so many valuable information and knowledge are gained from watching your videos, with all respect I would like to ask if a rifling with smooth edges on land and grooves (better way to describe is curved or u shaped) can be as effective as the classic land and grooves that are square? Thnks in advance
Always enjoy your advice sir. Do you have a recommendation on powder for a 257 WBY MAG shooting some of the heavier bullets 110s or so? I have never loaded for a WBY cartridge so I'm looking forward to a new cartridge to tinker with.
Hello Real Gunsmith, I have questions about reloading sir, and would like to ask your professional advice. I’m brand new to re-loading and I understand some loads shoot more accurate at a specific bullet jump into the barrel. I have heard many choose .020 off the lands as a good starting point for hand-loads. My question would be, when a person is reloading a lighter grain bullet in a specific caliber “in my case .243 Win”, when should one decide that there isn’t enough bullet seating depth in the neck? Is there a minimum amount that one would want their bullet seated in the case neck for proper retention? In my case with a Hornady V-Max 87 grain and a choice of .020” off the lands the projectile appears it will be seated less than .243” depth in the case neck. How much less than projectile dia is acceptable for bullet seating depth using my Redding standard FL resizing die that uses the standard resizing method for case neck? The current 87 grain .243” V-Max projectiles I will be reloading don’t have a cannelure groove, so I assume they are not designed for a crimp to be used. Your thoughts on bullet seating depth for proper bullet retention vs desire for a certain off lands distance for accuracy?
not needed, trin your brass correctly and just neck size keeping your brass dedicated to your individual rifle chambers. do not mix brass and rifle chambers if you neck size. neck sizing prolongs the life of brass cases.
@@barryrickert6544 eventually annealing is needed, and sooner than you think. Annealing keeps the neck elastic which allows consistent neck tension. If the brass workhardens to the point where most of the elasticity is gone, when you seat the bullet you are sizing the neck again. Neck tension will be very light and inconsistent.
@@TheRealGunsmith All brass is annealed a few times during the manufacturing process. When it is loaded and fired repeatedly it workhardens and requires annealing again to maintain neck tension.
@@TheRealGunsmith What is good quality to one may not be to another. I have 30 yrs of reloading and metallurgy... my data says to anneal magnums every time and .308 capacity sized cases every other time.
Yes. And no. Accuracy is obtained with near perfect ballistic balance for our high velocity rifles, which is invariably at top, uniform velocities. Thanks for watching.
I’ve been reloading for 30+ years and I still am learning
40+ years here & *ditto*
Yup, 25+ and the more i learn, the more fun and enjoyment i get. 👍🇺🇸
Im new at it, only 15 for me! Haha
@@Don.E.63 then you are lucky to have found this activity so early in life. Enjoy it. You may be among the last to do so .🇺🇸♥️
50 years here still have problems. just learning
These videos are like a great western movie, I can watch them over and over and pick up on things I missed the first time. Thanks again.
As you say Randy, load development is a process of subtle changes. A different bullet, powder charge, different powder, different primer to get the most accurate load. Great information and another great video and I always enjoy your videos.
I have only been reloading for 10 years. I can honestly say. This is spot on. People's ego gets in the way of true science. Or savvy as one knowledgeable gent should say.
Watching your video's has helped me out a GREAT DEAL. I just been reloading 3 yrs. and I'm 72.
I agree wholeheartedly.I enjoy finding the pet loads for different rifles.Ive never had the luck of owning a custom rifle,only factory rifles.Ive always been able to take rifles that shoot factory loads all over the place,and with a little work,find loads that will shoot 1" or less for five shot groups.Many times,I pick the bullet I want,and then find a powder and load that shoots it to the group size that works for me.A perfect example of how things can change though,is I had a great load for a Ruger M77 in 06,using 180gr. Barnes X bullet.I was getting ready for an elk hunt,and thought I had my load,but I had to buy more bullets,and loaded some for the hunt.I took some to the range just to make sure it still shot right.When I shot my group,it shot over 3" for a three shot group.I shit another group,same thing.So I started talking to people I know that really keeps up with things,and come to find out that Barnes had change the ogive on the bullet some,thus causing my rifle to not like them anymore,or at least not with that charge.All of that just to say this,just because your rifle may not like one thing,keep trying and experimenting,you will find combinations that will work.As Randy said here,that is the fun and challenge of reloading.Yiull have great pride in knowing that you took a rifle that is shooting so so groups and turning it into a tack driver.
Always looking forward too see if you two have a new video out. Thank you both for sharing all of your videos with us. Lots of love to both of you & God bless you !!!
Growing up with absolutely no standards in accuracy because we were not allowed to hunt deer with rifles in my state, I was never interested in this type of accuracy. I never knew what the term actually meant. I am absolutely pleased to get around 1 to 1.5 inch groups out of any factory rifle I have now and compared to 6" groups at 100 yds with rifled slugs from a smooth bore we are miles ahead of where we were when I was younger. Your talking about striving for less than .5 inches. Amazing and thank you for your knowledge. I switched to a muzzleloader for all seasons when inlines became popular in the 90s looking for those one hole groups, and never looked back until they made straight wall cartridges legal. Now I shoot a 45/70 guide gun with 300 gr jhp handloads. I have some 405 gr hard cast but they tear up a lot of meat. The 300 gr behind the shoulder is perfect and kills like lightning and group about 1.5" at 100 yds. Which is about what I would get from my inline with 250 gr. sabots and 90 he of pyrodex.
seeing the way you remember how you shot those groups without marking them made me consider what you say even more. respect.
As a newer reloader this helps me for sure.thank you for your time and thanks for all your videos hope yall are doing well God bless
I developed a load for my Browning A-bolt 25-06, using 4831 powder and Barnes TSX 100gr bullets. I used 4 different loading references, 3 of the 4 listed 54gr as the max charge, except my Nosler#3, which said 56 was max. I loaded up 20 rounds from 52gr to 55.8gr, shot them over a chronometer, found 2 powder nodes, selected 55.2gr as the charge.
Then I played with bullet seating depths until I got to a 4 shot group at .78 inches.
I shot 40 rounds to find a load, maybe I didn't do it perfectly or maybe I went about it differently than some would have done it, but it sure is satisfying when you see your changes make the groups tighter.
Barnes bullets wouldn't work well with data from other bullet manufacturers. Glad it worked out for you, but Barnes have a higher shot start pressure and are longer for their weight than jacketed bullets. Thus they need less powder to get to top pressure.
im a 50 yo guy/kid.kid at heart ,grew up in ,and live in connecticut,not much elk,or long range shooting in my world. i dont know anything about shooting. all i know about guns is the wood guns are beautiful i love old wood guns! my point is. i can watch and listen to this man all day! very very interesting . everything this man says is worth hearing . i am interested in shooting long rang,and maybe hunting . so much to learn . aroung here we used to duck,phesant,hunt. nowadays most of the land is gone. subdivisions asfar as you can see . anyway ty for this channel and the videos . i enjoy them all very much .and ty for sharing your knowledge. i really hope someone carries on this mans legacy , knowledge , etc . ty again ......
i almost forgot i have a .50 cal TC hawken muzzle loader , i love black powder ! love shooting my hawken . 80-90 grains i guess ya call it ,and a round ball .at 50 yards open sights .i can put it almost in same hole ...lots of smoke and fun ! hadtothrow this in ..lol
We need more knowledgeable men like your self. Thank you for your timely response.
Guns are like people they like what they like. Patience and persistence is the key to accuracy.
Even a regular ol rifle has potential, just gotta work at it. Sometimes wanna throw it down the hill, so gotta set aside for a bit then start all over
I gotta watch these at 1.5× so it's at regual speed ...I would usually dismiss these know it all folks but I trust when this guy says he knows he actually does know
Yep
This guy is no bullshit he's the real deal. Love his content and its never been this relevant..
While I'm 2 yrs older, you are a great inspiration to me, especially when probably working on my "LAST" rifle!
(Yes, sayin' that fur years!)
Took me over 50 rounds to finally figure out an acceptable load for my latest rifle. Part of that was a broken scope ring in the middle of it but the main thing that tightened my groups was trying different primers as Randy recommends.
Totally agree with you, one thing we must take inconsideration, We live in different times every one wants an instant gratification & want it now it’s the new norm.
Thank you for informative upload
Ahmad
Dang, this makes me want to get back into reloading. Can't wait till components are available again.
I'm from the future. Bad news....
If you shot in your videos or showed us you loading, you’d be a hit!
I have a .340 Weatherby that I couldn't get to shoot that great. Finally, after years of shooting factory ammo and even handloads, I found the rifles favorite loads. 185 grain Barnes TTSX bullets. Going around 3100 fps. 1 inch groups or less is now the norm. I'm still experimenting!
The winds always blowing in west Texas too . Almost every day when the gunrange just opens. It is a rare opportunity to shoot in ideal conditions out here. I have a logbook that has the pet load for my beloved hunting rigs just like he's doing.
He's telling it like it is, and that's why I reload myself, extreme accuracy at a fraction of the cost, and you know exactly what it is.
When I start working up a load I start with the charge wight and increase it until I get good velocity and see low SD numbers. Then I work with the seating depth to tighten up the group. We all know that every cartridge is different and certain powders are suitable for each. As a general rule I look for a powder that yeilds a full case b4 it causes over pressure charges. I have nowhere the experience of most but I do understand I will never know everything and will continue to learn until I'm in the ground
Always appreciate you and your experience :)
Good video. I have been reloading for close to 50 years. All true what you said. I have a 270 that would not group and would kick straight back with a terrible wollap, finally checked the bedding and made it free floated then added a heavier butt to force the center of mass back slightly. Worked up a group with 4350 imr and a 140gr boat tail. Shot groups under 1inch and soft recoil. Learned the lesson to feel how the recoil along with barrel vibration. Tune the load to the barrel.
Enjoyed the the info and you explaining loads. Not a reloaded but just an old guy that likes someone who knows what their talking about
Thank you for this video. I only wish I could have seen you back in the 60's when I started out shooting my Mauser based 244 Remington. Younger shooters here should keep this video and review it many times, whenever they run into load development. Unfortunately, after being disappointed with many load combinations, I sold that rifle. Another of my regrets. Thanks again!
This would make another excellent video, if Randy has ever ran into a gun he couldn’t get to shoot.
The nut behind the trigger causes most problems with any firearm. I have seen the same thing with handguns. A firearm is not a fashion statement but many people shoot them like they are, and that causes problems.
Awesome advice I've had a "bad" name brand scope that had me chasing my tail that gave me second thoughts on my loads and rifle.
Finally someone that reloads and when starting off gets bad groups like I do. He's using a great rifle and his reloading experience and not getting much better than I do at first. How refreshing! Of course once I find a load that shoots under an inch I'm satisfied for the type of hunting I do here on the east coast. Last fall when starting off with a new bullet, my first charge shot close to half an inch! I didn't know what to do next! Still haven't decided. I have to tell you that this is the best group I've ever shot with this rifle. The velocity is a little low and I bought the bullet to try and extend my maximum range on moose but the low velocity isn't helping much. I'll keep trying other charges because I know the rifle likes the bullet. Wish me luck.
@Jess Hadlock I'm hoping too. But man that group! I was so proud.
@Jess Hadlock Older Sako Forrester in 7mm-08 shooting 160 grain Federal TBT at 2540. ES was 5. No visible pressure or measurable case expansion. Its a very long bullet and my mag is the limiting factor. Lots of jump. I really don't expect much more from my combination and should just load the rest. It would be my eastern moose load with a limit of 250-300 yards with a good presentation.
I was once loading 308 with 168 hornady match for a long rang plinking load using varget. It was a new and inexpensive gun so I was beginning to think 1.5" was the best I could expect, SD was in the high teens as well. Swapped WLR primers for REM LR and SD dropped to 8-ish and .5-ish for the group size. For hunting moose, I would continue to experiment until I found a good load at higher muzzle energy or until you have to sight the rifle in before the hunt starts.
You didn't say it, but with your approach to building a load, it follows a principle that I always state when others ask for suggestions - "don't be afraid to try something different and shoot your gun more." It surprises me how many handloaders expect to find that accuracy result and down deep it pains them if they have to shoot they gun more than a minimum number of times. I generally approach handloading as a great opportunity to shoot more - GOOD!. I don't follow your approach in detail, but the general approach of try this, change one item, when you start to see results you like - start zeroing in on that recipe. I also appreciate your approach of measuring the cartridge base expansion as another method to identify pressure signs. Not many people do that. It's a simple step, that requires very basic tools to measure for consideration. If you could touch on a subject in a future video - what are your thoughts on the recently introduced Savage straight pull? I'm giving it serious consideration, for one reason because I am a left handed shooter. It may allow me to purchase a gun that does not depreciate in value so much because there are no right handed shooters that are interested in my left hand bolt actions. The ambidextrous nature of the gun may serve my needs well, and retain value as it's still a right handed gun for anyone that may want it to be right handed. But I would like to hear your thoughts on the integrity and strength of the action?
Great advice. Be careful and methodical. Use high quality tools. Keep good records. Have fun.
My gunsmith who shoots competition he is older so only shoots at 100 yrds but 5 round groups almost always go in the same hole a little egging but not much. He told me years ago he had a lot of people that wanted him to watch them at the range to see if he could pick up what they were doing wrong most times he told them that they are doing everything right at the range as far as shooting mechanics but where they are loosing their accuracy is on the bench. He would bring them to his shop at no cost and work up a load, show his in and outs of reloading and improve their game he built guns for people in all of the United States except Hawaii. He had vary high skills in gunsmithing maybe not Randy's skills but the best in our area he did most services dirt cheap and would give free info out to competition he was a class act I miss him very much he died last February. That being said he was training his son in law in the business which has worked out well he is good but not as cheap as the old man
Thanks again for the knowledge and yeah some times you have to keep trying right ,,,don't laugh to laud men but I have a Mossberg Patriot 308 she is a shooter lol,,thanks to Randy .I love to shot and reload jam about 60 now never to proud to listen .see you on the next one
Most of the people that complain about their rifles are shooting factory loaded rounds and sometimes that just don't work I have a remington 338 rum and it shoots 4 inch groups with factory remington ammo but .5 inch groups with my hand loads
@@billdickson1142 my loads are 250 grain nosler accubonds and rifle has a 1 in 10 twist barrel
Hey Brother, you better start saving your primers!! Your the best!!
i grew up shooting .243 and reloading for it. my dad had worked up a load that would shoot inch or less groups in all 4 of our .243 rifles. 30 years later I decided to start reloading, and spent all summer working up a load for my .270 and went thru exact experience just described. I was amazed at the difficulty in coming up with a load. I finally got it, after much head shaking and some profanity...lol
Blessings and good health to you and your family, Sir.
It's hard to do load development in today's times with powder and bullets being so hard to find
Exactly its like best I can do is just guess..
Guess as in within the parameters of the book***
@@rickterrance4981 got that right been wanting to try a different grain bullet in my rum but don't want to burn a lb of powder to do it that I can't replace
I’ve just been blowing money stacking up different powders and primers as I can find them. It’s hard to start reloading right now. I got lucky finding a forester coax online tho
Thank you for sharing what you have learned up until now. I'm looking forward to many more years of it. I consider every rifle, and cartridge combination a classroom. You have attended more classes than many of us put together, so I find your conclusions valuable. Alot of the RUclips reloaders never show a mic in their videos, they do show their digital caliper to measure COAL, but never get around to measuring case head expansion. They are reading primers and bolt face marks on the case heads to judge pressure. The $300.00 rifle and scope combo often leave cratered primers at obviously low pressures, and when they pierce a soft cup primer, they declare that they have exceeded a max load, even though when they started the video, they stated Quickload predicted 55k psi, on a 63k psi cartridge. At this point I am trusting Quickloads prediction more than the "guru's' conclusion on pressure. Bush the firing pin and use a suitable primer, and track case head expansion and we can have a discussion. They not only may not have reached their best velocity, but also not reached the most accurate load. Not knocking the $300 rifle combo as it is perfect for the guy that can get through 3 deer seasons on 1 box of factory ammo, but it would be interesting to see the initial expansion of factory ammo. Are they chambered as carefully as the firing pins are fitted? Question for Randy: A long time ago when I was young and gun writers were old (but younger than I now am), they would frequently shoot 10 shot groups fired at a slow pace at 200 yards. Now that bullets are so much better, is this practice still beneficial?
Proven scope is a must. Don’t ask me how I know. 😤
Very well said you only get out of it what you put in it love your videos
I've only ever gotten lucky once when hand loading. First 5 were loaded up some .308 with federal brass, cci 250 magnum primers, 46 grains of H380, and Hornady 168 grain match bullets
Same here but unfortunately it wasn’t my rifle lol. My brother owns a beautiful wood stocked Winchester model 70 that absolutely shoots everything and anything I’ve ever loaded for it under an inch for 5 shots, and in some cases one ragged hole lol. I’ve tried unsuccessfully to get that rifle from him several times lol
Hey when this man speaks you shut up and listen because he’s dropping knowledge you can take to the bank!!!! Thank you for the videos and taking the time to teach !!
I tell people that a rifle is like a guitar it has to be tuned.
Absolutely, it's all harmonics whether we can hear them or not.
It takes a lot of work to get it done.
It is always very rewarding when you finally get it done after 50- 60 rounds of fireformed brass with the right col.
i have seen many sighting vids, most leave out a final ck with a plum bob .
Mr. Gunsmith, any chance you would do a video on your current reloading setup and process?
While there’s several good reloading channels on RUclips, You have a great understanding of reloading and the way you are able to cut through the crap, would be a great addition to the knowledge of others!
Thanks
Perhaps. I'll add it to my list.
Thanks for watching and the comment. We truly appreciate it.
Lots of information as usual Randy. I'm sure we've all started out with patterns liking to a shotgun instead of groups like a rifle, Lord knows I sure have.
Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please.
Rifles are funny sometimes,
Its really an art to get one to shoot good. I had a , I think it was a savage svsd in 308 , it only liked 110, and 168s, no matter what I did, it would not shoot 150s , nothing but 168s and 110 bullets, took me more than a year but , I got it running like a sewing machine.
Great videos, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Hope y'all doing good!!!
I reloaded my first cartridges 41 years ago.
It all comes down to barrel harmonics and whip. The old master is explaining how to find the frequency a barrel likes. At 51 years old I own one store bought rifle that groups factory loads. On the other hand I've got a hand built mountain gun that shoots 1/4" groups with me shooting it(I'm not a good bench shooter) after days of work up that started at 4" groups. Randy's explanation is the only way your going to find the sweet spot if it doesn't shoot from the start.
I always look forward to hearing what you have to say Randy.
First consistent combustion. Second barrel harmonics. Consistent combustion by selecting best primer, powder, powder charge, case brand, neck tension, etc. A low muzzle velocity standard deviation is a good metric of consistent combustion. Barrell harmonics by selecting best cartridge base to ogive length.
Thanks for the advise. I’m not a reloaded but it’s absolutely fascinating. I bought a $370 30-06 savage axis with scope. Due to limited availability of ammo I purchased 150gr bullets which garnered a 2.4” shot group. The next box was 168gr SGK 1.1” shot group
Then 180gr Cor-Lol .9” shot group and then I finally found 178gr ELD-X .6” shot groups. I wonder if bullet weight is relative to barrel twist and length.
Gotta make sure all the screws are torqued properly. I found that out the hard way.
Bibs and a red and black Buffalo plaid shirt is so dang good looking. Better than a tuxedo.
Another great video I just want to thank you for this video
Happy new year from Australia Randy. Very interesting subject, I have found changes to groups in 338 W/M caused by the season. I hunt in area's that have high humidity and 35-40 degC temps and the group can clover leaf then take it hunting in dry cooler 25-32 degC little humidity and they will group out 1"-1.5" out of the same box. I don't change projectile weight (225gn SST) or primers WLRM I just reduce powder by .5gn and they tighten back up. It is an amazing science. Thank you. Grate filming by your wife. Stay safe.
I have been debating getting into handloading because I have a 90's era browning a-bolt 7mm rem mag that averages 1.5-2.0 inch groups with factory ammo. I was considering selling the rifle thinking it was a problem with the rifle. This gives me hope that with the proper loads I might be able to get it to consistently shoot MOA or better.
I’ve been resizing my brass so the bolt just snugs up at the end when the bolt closes. That’s what Randy said! And a bench rest shooter told me bump your should 1-2thou I measure and it’s the same what Randy said. He knows his stuff.
Guns are like people know 2 are alike but some do have a lot of the same characteristics and until you get to know them you are not going to know what they like and dislike!
love the wild turkey feather hanging on the mantle(:
You should see what it's attached to. Check some of his other videos. It's awesome. His son made it from scratch.
Great video. Keep up the great work. A wealth of knowledge.
Having the very problem you are talking about with a 270 win. rem. 700bdl. Been using imr 4064 for years out of this 22" bbl. Thanks for the ideas . gonna look it over once more. Seems like the older i get, the less i know. From Idaho
Here is my takeaway from your video; You were not able to make your reloads shoot acceptable groups but found a box of factory Hornady ammo which shot tight groups. Now as a fellow reloader my question is what was problem with the reloads? I have experienced same issue and areas that I tweak include distance bullet is off lands, brass (Lapua is my choice), primers (mag, target, standard), powder, bullet type/weight, and finally making sure barrel is free floated. Believe you commented that powder and primers were changed which did not resolve problem. I have found factory ammo that shoots well in my guns but never ran into a situation that my reloads could not be made to shoot as well and usually better than factory. I enjoy your videos and appreciate you and your wife teaming up to share your extensive background in the hunting, rifle making, and shooting business.
You didn't listen well. I used Hornady 180 gr SST BULLETS. I do not use factory ammo. Furthermore, my reloads did shoot with this bullet. Every rifle likes a different bullet/component combination, even rifles built of the exact same components.
I put 60+ years of doing this and I believe I know how to wring top accuracy than it appears you do.
Cartridges are just that. Bullets are not cartridges or ammo, well, only in the movies.
Did you, for instance, "put bullets" in your rifles? It would be pretty silly to just put a bullet in a rifle. Totally worthless.
A bullet, with case, primer and powder is a cartridge. Alone it is just that, a bullet. Alone.
And I said nothing of using a different cartridge.
Very helpful. Thank you.
I’d like to see a video and just hear your opinion on 30-30 Winchester
was able to get .750 group w/ 180 gr sst in 300 win ADL factory, load matters. that same rifle years latter was rebarreled, receiver was out of square, rust under left side of lug and barrel .
With low consistent SD's and repeated group size of the same measurements you may want to adjust distance from the lands. Start on the lands and work back. I'm sure you are aware of this, not sure why it wasn't mentioned.
randy rebarreled my 300 win mag with a trued up remington action and a brux barrel and he knows what the hell hes doing. it punches hornady match bullet through the same hole at 3150 fps it is accurate . i can hit pie plates at thousand yards almost every time
+
Question ~ in the situation with belted cartridges, is the belt dual functioning?
Meaning, as I understand it, it can be for headspacing but was the original intent to strengthen the case head as well?
Keep up the excellent content 👍🏻🙏🏻✝️
You are a great wealth of knowledge
Thank You! Great video.
The jerk behind the trigger. thats me lol
Thanks for the information sir
I love to set down and do the same thing with my black powder rifles I can change power , patch, or ball weight and get a 50 cal too 1" at 100 yards just keep working till you get it how u want it
Great video
You are one cool guy !!!
I could use some help with a load for my .260 rem. . It's a browning A bolt micro hunter with a 1:9 twist with a 20 inch barrel. Tried alot of different powders and bullets. No luck. Thanks for any help you can give me.
Randy, I've been a toolmaker/machinist for over 20 years and have some good mics. What kinds of changes are you looking for when measuring the head of the brass? .0001 - .0005? .001 - 2? And what do I do with this measurement? Is it just an objective way to measure when you're approaching or over pressure?
.0005 as max expansion on brass to control pressure.
Thanks for watching.
For me it was part of my enjoyment in handloading was the search of the right combination for the particular rifle. With my loss of vision I have quit loading due to fear of making mistakes. I do have a question. What's your opinion on Vhit vouri powder line? I was experimenting with N540 with good luck in the old 30-06 in P17 Remington factory action I had built. I just found out my buddy I use to build, load,shoot, and hunt with out of kemmer passed away.
They are good powders. Thanks for watching.
Great tutorials. Always enjoy.
Well said the same goes for the bullet tips a lot of science goes into the chamber !🤔😏🙄
Randy ,how would you style or build a rifle for Jungle Hunting for a PAC officer today ( problem animal control) , one who also has maneating Leopard and Tiger on his list of animals to encounter with as part of his work schedule?
40mm grenade?
Peep sights and a rifle you know will function every time, in a caliber that will take them out with a single shot. Bolt or lever rifle. It is my understanding there are certain caliber restrictions, but I am not familiar with what they may be. Lightweight. Stainless.
Thanks for watching. Good shooting!
To summarize this video: the key to handloading accuracy is....CHAMBER THROUGH THE HEADSTOCK.
Bless you and thank you so much for imparting your knowledge your recommendation to chose a 270cal. (3shots touching at 200yds)
What 270 ammo you using? I just got a tikka t3. In 270 winchester.
Good advice!
Hello mr gunsmith, what do you think of Eric Cortina’s videos on Load development. Would be very interested in your thoughts. Eric Cortina is an F Class shooter for the USA.
I follow his load development process, using quick loads to help choose bets available powder. Been having good luck.
From The Real Gunsmith's Wife: He doesn't watch videos, he's too busy working, and shooting. Up in the mountains.
@@TheRealGunsmith pity would have loved to have known his opinion on that system.
@@TheRealGunsmith maybe he should
99.99% of the time, it ain't the wrench, but the nut on the handle.
Lookin good Randy
Quickload is fun. It's either that or buy a manual from every bullet company and every powder company.
Every powder company I own powder from has either a free manual or a web app to start.
You can also try GRT LOAD SOFTWARE...
@@justice1327 I'll check it out, thanks
Good day sir in my country the closest you can get to a rifle is a high power. 177 air rifle but many rifle aspects are related so many valuable information and knowledge are gained from watching your videos, with all respect I would like to ask if a rifling with smooth edges on land and grooves (better way to describe is curved or u shaped) can be as effective as the classic land and grooves that are square? Thnks in advance
Always enjoy your advice sir. Do you have a recommendation on powder for a 257 WBY MAG shooting some of the heavier bullets 110s or so? I have never loaded for a WBY cartridge so I'm looking forward to a new cartridge to tinker with.
IMR 7828 or H1000, each rifle is individual and you'll find the one yours likes best.
Good shooting and thanks for watching.
Thank you! Always a pleasure.
Hello Real Gunsmith, I have questions about reloading sir, and would like to ask your professional advice. I’m brand new to re-loading and I understand some loads shoot more accurate at a specific bullet jump into the barrel. I have heard many choose .020 off the lands as a good starting point for hand-loads. My question would be, when a person is reloading a lighter grain bullet in a specific caliber “in my case .243 Win”, when should one decide that there isn’t enough bullet seating depth in the neck? Is there a minimum amount that one would want their bullet seated in the case neck for proper retention? In my case with a Hornady V-Max 87 grain and a choice of .020” off the lands the projectile appears it will be seated less than .243” depth in the case neck. How much less than projectile dia is acceptable for bullet seating depth using my Redding standard FL resizing die that uses the standard resizing method for case neck? The current 87 grain .243” V-Max projectiles I will be reloading don’t have a cannelure groove, so I assume they are not designed for a crimp to be used.
Your thoughts on bullet seating depth for proper bullet retention vs desire for a certain off lands distance for accuracy?
What’s your opinion on annealing the brass in between shots ? Love your videos
not needed, trin your brass correctly and just neck size keeping your brass dedicated to your individual rifle chambers. do not mix brass and rifle chambers if you neck size. neck sizing prolongs the life of brass cases.
@@barryrickert6544 eventually annealing is needed, and sooner than you think. Annealing keeps the neck elastic which allows consistent neck tension. If the brass workhardens to the point where most of the elasticity is gone, when you seat the bullet you are sizing the neck again. Neck tension will be very light and inconsistent.
No need. Good quality brass has been annealed.
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith All brass is annealed a few times during the manufacturing process. When it is loaded and fired repeatedly it workhardens and requires annealing again to maintain neck tension.
@@TheRealGunsmith What is good quality to one may not be to another. I have 30 yrs of reloading and metallurgy... my data says to anneal magnums every time and .308 capacity sized cases every other time.
Ya hit the nail right on the head imo!
If I could wake up tomorrow and be anyone else in the world I'd want to be Randys grandson!
Randy i picked up a 270 win. I look to use a solid copper alloy like Hornady or federal. Do the copper fly different?
no, nothing really noticeable if the proper ammo or hand loaded ammo is shot in the rifle.
@@barryrickert6544 thank you. I got a 308 that doesn't like them. Other people say its only thing they'll use
How will reloader 19 work on Remington 700 2506
Awesome! With my 24” brl, with a 117 gr bullet, i get 3250 fps and low es/sd
Don't you agree, each type of bullet may require a different charge of the same powder? Closer to the middle charges usually run more accurate?
Yes. And no. Accuracy is obtained with near perfect ballistic balance for our high velocity rifles, which is invariably at top, uniform velocities.
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith I have several groups with various bullets, same charge and powder with varying results. Barnes TSX the best group.
I pray your wife is doing great sir Amen 🙏