I truly do believe far too many people take this game much more seriously than how it is supposed to be taken. Casual play and messing around and just having fun is DBD at its best.
@@Brisingr73 It's not at all a bad thing to want to do well at something you're doing. Don't let people tell you otherwise. EDIT: Cause either way, you paid for the game so you can play it how/take it as seriously as you want to.
I totally agree. I had games where survivors would fool around with me and I just participate in that tomfoolery, it's really fun and the positivity in the chat is really rewarding if that makes sense. But I swear to the Entity if people send me to Cowshed, I let hellfire rain upon them. I tunnel the weakest link out of the game. I proxy-camp if I sense that the remaining two don't work on gens but try to go for the save. I slug the last two to prevent unbreakable hatch plays. I really hate Cowshed.
@@Brisingr73 fair point, but like a true hunter of Hircine I'd have to respectively disagree that a game feels right or good if I've blatantly used a unfair advantage to win. The only time I've ever gone back to the hook straight away when someone is unhooked is to get the unhooker next, how can you rate yourself by tunnelling?
Videos like this are why I'm subbed to scot, dude can come off like an "asshole" but he's never trying to be one, just speaks his mind, but is willing to clarify if he came off badly. Good guy.
There’s also another issue with these debates which is someone always has to lose. For every 200 Survivor escape streak there’s 200 killer games they lose. For every 2000 Nurse 4K streak there’s 2000 games where Survivors lose. The point is someone always loses so it’s preposterous to want to always win every one of your games. It’s simply stupid. If you find yourself losing more than you win and you care enough to want to win. Then a good way to start getting better is watching your matches back. Cuz I know it helped me realise a lot of mistakes I was making. Another thing could be trying to stick to just 1 or 2 killers instead of trying to play all 30 odd. And the MOST important advice I have is to play the other side or at least watch people play the other side. Because the more you know about the other side the more you learn how to counter and make plays more effectively
DBD reddit changes it's mind SOLELY to piss on the dev team. Every post was about how Eruption is ruining the game and when the nerf dropped, they all immediately complained about it being ruined and useless and also compared Eruption to Spine Chill in terms of power lol
@@dekudude8888 While I agree with you, the example used is poor because Eruption was very strong but got gutted. It will do basically nothing for most killers now because the 10% current progress regression is so minimal.
@@dekudude8888 yeah because perks should be nerfed not gutted . Your game doesn’t have good balance if the devs gut any perk that was op. Eruption should still be viable but not op.
@@dekudude8888od I HATED those memes when they purposely misinterpreted the frustration “well u asked for a nerf didnt u haha” when the argument is, the perk needed a nerf, not deletion
@@dumblenutz5561 I got disliked on a bunny subreddit for saying "Aw man, rabbits eat their own crap, gross!" Got Like 30 dislikes. It astounded me. Were they....offended? Did they eat their own DUNG? Moral of the story, anything pisses off reddit.
Honestly, I see the tunneling issue as this right now. You can't trust the players to behave themselves with the ability to tunnel or genrush, so someone either has to step in (behaviour), or it just won't ever sort itself out.
As far as I know, neither of those are against the rules. The fact people think these are somehow a form of misbehavior is actually fucking hilarious. People dwell way too long after one match of this game, it's so odd. Go next and stfu.
I definitely agree with Scott on this but it’s really hard and annoying. I’ve been trying to not tunnel as killer unless I absolutely have to (the unhooked person is body blocking etc) but then when I lose I get tbaged or called names in endgame chat. Or when I win I get told how bad I am…. Then when I play survivor and try to run fun builds I still get camped by killers and spammed hit on hook for looping well. So then I just go “f it” and play shitty again. And I feel like it’s just this reoccurring cycle.
I feel like that's a good chunk of us. We didn't come into the game with evil intentions. We wanted to have fun and were perfectly cool with letting survivors have fun, too. But when the toxicity on both sides is never-ending, sometimes you're just a human being that can't easily shrug it off, so you say eff it and start tunneling some mother f'ers.
Here’s my advice, just play with common sense. If you see a survivor on death hook, go after them, if they were literally just unhooked and you don’t want to immediately go after them, fine, give them a chance to get away. But if you’re at 2-1 gens, I would say just go after them. It shouldn’t be toxic to play with common sense. Why would I go after the Dwight who either hasn’t been hooked, or only hooked once, over the Nea who is on death hook? Look at it this way. When was the last time you saw a survivor forgo a strong loop for a weaker one? or let themselves be downed after getting chased for a set amount of time? or ignored the 90% gen to start repairing the 0% one? I’ve been playing for almost 2 years, about 80% being killer, and I’ve never seen a survivor do any of those things. So if they’re not expected to purposefully play worse for the sake of the killer. Then why are killers expected to purposefully play worse for the sake of survivors?
Dead by Daylight and Reddit is an ungodly abomination disturbing enough to shiver an average Twitter user's soul. Maybe a dbd redditor will be the next Killer???
Too fat to even move. Maybe they just roll and their main method of attack is to squirt soy at anything that moves withering it until it can no longer move itself and just dies
The number one thing I've taken away from reddit no matter what game it is if you tell them to just play better to solve the problem, and that is justifiably the solution you're gonna get flamed every time. They just cannot handle being told they're not playing well enough to counter what's upsetting them
At least he bothers to try and understand why, even if it's irrational/unreasonable; and then have the decency to address it reasonably anyway. First mistake *always* is logging on to reddit looking for reason and rationality though
@@jeremycorbin2178 I also fall into the habit of browsing Reddit. People just irrationally hate him, like they do with Otz, purely on the basis that he is a streamer.
@@nolanthedude At least Vile Scott sometimes sounds like a smartass (obvs without realizing it and I like it that way), Otz copping it on that godforsaken forum is only disheartening to hear. That guy visibly tries with all his might to be as wholesome as Santa on a Sunday even when he's being BM'd by four people in the same lobby; it's inspiring shit
@@nolanthedude I mostly browse Reddit for smaller communities, and to also be on the look out for Steam scams. Ever since I got scammed once, I've been trying to be weary of new and ever present scams being made, and to help people avoid being scammed.
@@nolanthedude Its kind of the opposite with Otz. Most people take his advice and commentary blindly without really grasping the points he is making sometimes. "If otz says this is a good build and using this playstyle is the most effective way to win then I must also do so."
Scott: You can get better at the game if you try What people hear: If you breathe you should be getting better at dead by daylight. Forget your family and play silly little party game
I agree somewhat on your points about “we don’t need to play to win every time.” After 2k hours of the game I started thinking of the game as a “horror super smash bros”. Some games I don’t even care about the gens and just go for the chases or silly perk loadouts (i’m a killer main). When I go up against bully squads who go out of their way to annoy me I just set my killer to stare at a corner and suddenly no one can play :D
Hell yeah brother, I'm a casual player. I take my 4 man out's on the nose, I actually recently, in the past year, have begun to play the game EXPLCITLY going for 8 hooks, and 4 Escapes on killer. Usually going in with literally only Shadowborn and holy crap. The game has gotten SIGNIFICANTLY more fun in this playstyle. I recommend people try it out, seriously. Made my entire mentality with the game become way softer and survivors are generally more chill and they hangout with me in post game.
I tried to do that one or twice but something in my brain just turn on and it COMPELLS me to 4k. Every time I try to play chill it just happens. I see that one nea t bag and click spam, I get cheated out of a Wesker dash and lose power, I hear two gens pop off back to back ECT. And then I go from chill to I will do any amount of ungodly things to you to plummet your fun into the ground and win
THIS. the game is way more fun when you give yourself alternative objectives. when i play survivor my goal is to have good chases and flashbang the killer once per game lol. on killer i’m just there to chill and get a bunch of hooks.
The post game chat is so different if you go for 8 hooks and play around, vs tunnelling and slugging repeatedly for a 4k. And from my experience, the bloodpoints you earn are roughly the same, whether you go for lots of chases and lots of hooks or less hooks, but tunnel for quick kills.
The community is so divided but they don’t seem to realize both sides hate rushed games. They have somehow all the perspective and none of the perspective.
An idea I heard before & work on it a bit myself, so here goes. If the killer goes for you just as you got off your first hook, you gain the "resistance" effect. (could use a better name, not sure what) You have a 25% on your wiggle bar. This effect will go away when the killer hooks someone else. I was thinking of making the second hook a 35% to 40% 25% on your wiggle bar as a "last-ditch effort" to escape however, it might be abusable so I would cap it to 25%.
Even at 25% it would be extremely abusable. Just force the killer to chase you and then go down in a corner with no hooks/have your teammates bodyblock/sabotage the hooks. It also wouldn't do anything if the killer just downs you next to a hook, or brings agitation/iron grasp.
@@sonodv1709 That was one of the strats that players could do; however, the other side of the argument a friend of mine said, there in the corner & bleeding out. If they don't have unbrakeabill, then someone has to get them, which that's two players, not doing gens.
@@spiritupgrades I guess that's true but then just bring unbreakable or overcome. I'd don't think giving players even more protection when being tunneled is a good solution because it can and will be abused. Even if it's not super strong, it still feels bad on the receiving end. Take your example situation, a surv in the corner bleeding out and a teammate having to save them, it still sucks and isn't fun to not be able to hook the surv you downed, and it also sucks as a teammate to have to go to the corner of the map and pick up your teammate cuz they got tunneled. Maybe I'm wrong though and this would stop tunneling in its tracks.
@@sonodv1709 Maybe you are right; it's not perfect & It does need more fixing to be workable; however, it's an idea that seems simple enough that it could work strictly for just tunneling. Although if bubba has iron & agiy, then there's no saving you from bubbas basement.
So, I used to take this game kinda seriously. 4k'd most of my games. Got kinda sweaty when the survs BM'd... But recently, I decided I won't play the game right. I decided to go for two hooks each, then let them all go. Any sacrifices I get are gonna be survs giving up, BM punishment, or challenge related... and in all honesty, it's made things so much more pleasant. No longer do I see someone getting mad in post game chat every session. No longer do I struggle to get some challenges done, no longer do I dread playing the game. It's fun again. Sure, most of the time I'm bullying babies, but I get what I want, and they get to escape like they want. We all win. Most (90%) chat interactions are fun and nice rather than the salt of high mmrs. Gods they get so salty.
Glad to see a fellow "2 hook everyone and done" person. I wish there was a better way to track who has how many hook states other than memory, because sometimes it gets quite hectic and I accidentally kill someone who I thought was on the hook only once.
my idea would work, killer downs me hooks me I get saved they got after me down and rehook 2x in row instead of going to 2nd stage I go back to first stage, if I was in second stage and then tunneled back to being struggle mode not death mode, it will keep killers from tunneling/hooking same person unless they really want to waste their time. a way to stop this from being abused by killers who just slug you right away and wait abtt to then hook you should count to, cause they still tunneled ya off hook they just didnt put ya on hook straight away. There lots of ways to fix tunneling. I seen killers hook someone chase someone else soon as saved they bee line back to the hook to down hook.
Scott, people are absolutely dumb. From someone who pays attention to the dbd community they don't know what they're talking about and just want attention or to be right. Coco is basically dealing with the same thing and people just want to be treated better than others and hate being called out, even if you don't do that. You're my favorite content creator for this game because of how you approach problems and seek solutions. Love your vids man.
This is literally every gaming community on Reddit. They get irrationally angry at some utterly minor nitpick, start diving deep into mob mentality over irrelevant and unimportant needling and smoothbrain takes, downvote anyone who even slightly disagrees with them into oblivion, then suddenly have a collective realization that the entire thing was idiotic and likely manufactured for clout by a handful of really toxic idiots with an agenda. Rinse, repeat, spawn at least one circlejerk sub mocking the whole thing in retaliation that soon falls into the same mentality. The Resident Evil sub for instance is just now starting to claw its way back from a truly bonkers level of hate for the Resident Evil 3 Remake when a bunch of the people fanning the flames had a mask-off incel moment and tried to turn the narrative into "Jill swears too much and doesn't show her tits enough to be fuckable" and they all realized how gross they had been about it.
Love this POV. As a survivor main with 5k+ hours, I refuse to use DH and hyper focus/stake out type builds because it's typically wholly unnecessary save for vsing full slowdown and even then not.. and since I mod for a killer main I've seen the damage DH can do. Plus it's much more rewarding to be able to actually vs and beat some of the strongest, nastiest meta killer builds with a build consisting of desperate measures/no one left behind/guardian and something like FTP or autodidact or other. It's actually quite a fun build to use against camping/tunneling. They never expect the quick grab and guardian prevents them from being able to ignore me and go look for the unhooked UNLESS they physically spot them because they're faster, leave no blood, no scratch marks and don't grunt. AND if it's after end game they get a 14% speed boost (from guardian and no one left behind stacking) on top of base kit BT boost. This actually saved ME because I got hit when I went for the unhook and as we were running to the open door that teammate was fast enough to body block the killer from reaching me with base kit borrowed. It's games like that where my niche stuff works out so well that make it worthwhile.
I think the nerfing of perks like pop, bbq, and similar perks that reward quick chases with an entry into another chase or a chunk of Gen pressure. It resulted in the most pressure being killing someone off. Fast chases aren't enough because the perks that help those have been nerfed and now it's like a gen maintenance Gen kick meta where chases are a second thing vs keeping the gens down. It's a clash of playstyles.
Makes me miss those days too. I was happy with the overall killer buff, but they just made perks like Eruption, Pain Res, and Jolt good that actually further reward camping and barely moving around the map. Never was a fan of passive slowdown that doesn’t even make you interrupt survivors on gens, since that only leaves hooks as an objective to protect.
The funadmental issue that has gotten me to stop playing DbD much lately is just that too many of the "anti-tunneling" changes which the devs implement are also able to be 'weaponized' by survivors against you even if you aren't tunneling. In some cases in ways that are even more damaging than if you were tunneling (having to go through 4x DS procs because unhooked survivors will body block to force you to down them for value if they see that you'll leave them and spread pressure too much). Rewarding non-tunneling play so that it is as valuable (or more valuable) to killers is the solution, more carrot, less stick.
>”to the people who say you can’t win without doing X, I can prove you win and you deserve some shit for that.” Ok, win without downing or hooking anyone or letting anyone DC.
The priorities are in the wrong place. This community is so worried about who’s camping , who’s tunneling , who’s toxic instead of being persistent on change and actually direct that energy towards dev’s to address problems. This community just can’t do that.
@@IBeSimmerz Yeah, it's very hard for people to point the finger in the right direction. And then there's the whole discussion on how much responsibility players have when they play the game. Some? None? Kind of subjective at the end of the day.
Maybe next time have Stoner Scott deliver the argument? Jokes aside though, I think we all agree it's a bit out there to expect the entire community to change but like you said, it's been 7 freaking years. And it baffles me how people keep expecting tomorrow to be the day and are content to no t even try anything. Almost every player of this game has a grievance with something that we've all been waiting for it to get fixed for months, in the best case scenario, or even years, in the worst case. Yet when someone points something out or tries to give a solution, everyone piles on them and attacks them while ignoring the overall issue.
I mean, at the end of the day… the people who are doing the tunneling *are* part of the community though, so I would definitely say it is still partly the community’s fault. The devs have had 7 years to fix it all yeah, but we’ve had 7 years to stop sweating in a casual game and just have fun and mess around. And the majority of the community/player base have shown that they just don’t actually care.
From my perspective as 70/30 survivor/killer split, the way I perceive the game is that killers often don't feel like they actually want to play the game in a normal or fun way, they want a 4k handed to them on a platter, now I know that this ISNT the case for all killers, but definitely some of them. For survivors the main gripe I hear is inability to just play the game, being camped/tunneled denies gameplay in the worst way imo. The survivor complaint that comes off as unrealistic is whining about hatch constantly, slow down perks, and obnoxious powers at times
To go in the other direction I think a balance is needed between purely casual and sweaty, I almost agree with you that sweaty is the worst version of this game, but if we removed ALL sweat and all went pure casual, by your estimation, every single solitary killer would face camp and tunnel HARD, and we'd accept it cause they are casual and do not want to learn. It's obviously never gonna work out ideally but the ideal is zero sweat, some casuals, and most of the rest in the middle area where they don't sweat with all the best perks and nurse / all the best perks on survivor / SWF comp squad, but they also don't face camp, tunnel, kill themselves on hook, etc.
I agree with a lot of what you said here. I do think there's a middle ground between needing to hard-core tunnel and camp every game and just getting better and not needing to do that. I think the middle ground is a bit of both. I've seen in myself as well as Otz when he's in a sweaty match and the smallest mistake ever can cost him the game and survivors aren't making any. They're a SWF with crazy medkits and toolboxes and gens are flying and it seems like no matter how quick your chases are gens are faster and you tell yourself at a certain point. "Alright I need to tunnel this person out. I'm losing gens way to fast." Which is completely different than tunneling from the very start of the game. I belive that's the middle ground between the two because at a certain point you face survivors who are so good that there's not many options. I also agree with you that the game is at it's worst when it's sweaty but only in terms of balancing. So like right now it's the sweetiest we have ever seen while simultaneously requiring the least skill. Right now we are seeing on both sides where one side wins that was heavily outplayed all game but there was very little that could be done. So I think the game is at its worse when it's sweaty in terms of balancing and meta. But I actually think it's at it's best (depending on the mood) when it is played sweaty because both sides are anxious and try. It makes it feel like an actual horror game a bit.
Im mostly a survivor main but like to play killer casually and yeah, Im rlly bad at it. I whiff all the time, I cannot for the life of me mind game survivors and the gens pop seemingly all in a row, and yet I find no joy in just standing around by a hook or seeing the poor same survivor on my screen until they die, it's just not fun (maybe that's just from my survivor experience). At the same time, I cant rlly blame inexperienced killers like myself for resorting to these strats bc at the end of the day, it feels good to get a 4k or at least eliminate the pesky flashlight loving teabagger. It's like you said, casual players cant rlly get shit for being casual, it's more of a community effort to make sure everyone has their moment of fun and what's not, and the fact reddit completely missed that is just confusing. Not every game is gonna be your time in the spotlight where you loop the killer for 5 gens and teabag at the exit gate, I think the community would be better off just taking the L sometimes and moving on to another match.
Bringing strong items isn't either. Neither are boons. Neither is holding a button to do a gen. Wtf is your point here? The survivor role is much easier to play. Why do you think that even after the killer patch, the role is consistently the role that gets extra BP for choosing it? Because it's still the tougher role to play.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming Killer definitely is more stressful, but it’s not easier. It’s always 100% or 50% bonus BP to survivors in my area and my killer queue times reach up to 20 minutes compared to seconds for soloq. I used to purely main survivor until a year ago and now I barely play it because my win rates went from 60-80% to barely 10%, with the complete opposite for killer. It went from meta survivors to only really unfavorable maps being a deciding factor. If I play sweaty myself on killer, I’ll be lucky to lose a match or two a week. My losses on killer may be more frustrating, but they are MASSIVELY less frequent. None of my old DBD friends even play survivor anymore, and even when I scrounge up enough to play they barely play through more then 3 matches before quitting. The game may be the most balanced it’s been in a long time, but it’s in a very unhealthy way that punishes people who want to play for fun.
There's also something to be said about the mindset of 'I have to *WIN*' What constitutes a 'win?' All four survivors dead? Getting at least all four survivors hooked at least twice? At least once? Killing at least one survivor or at least three? People getting so hung up on 'I HAVE TO WIN' are absolutely stuck on the idea that if any survivors completed any gens then it's some affront to their gaming ability. And that, in part, is on the Devs too. I say 'In Part' because let's face it, for nearly 6 years the game tells you that if you didn't kill at least 1 survivor period '**ENTITY DISPLEASED**' like it's your dad who's disappointed in you or something. Now, I think ( I haven't played the game in a long while ) they've relaxed that and you have to play super bad or it the game doesn't say it at all or something. Maybe it's reworded to 'The Entity Hungers' But the idea that you have to **WIN** in order to get any enjoyment out of the game is silly. It's a component of having fun, but I've had a lot more fun out of DbD with doing silly things like Freddy Gen-Teleporting on someone during a chase with them and jump scaring the hecc out of them, or using 'Reverse Wraith' to spook people with the terror radius and mess with their heads. Sure, hooking is fun, but I don't need to get all four people to consider it a *win*
You offered up a suggestion, 100% fair. The thing is.. where's the line between not being " sweaty " or playing like a competitive team and just.. not. Each side has very simple goals. Survivors have to survive and fix gens. until they can leave. Killers have to kill and stop their progression. I mean.. the objectives are pretty black and white. What would one side do specifically to tune down actions that the community have deemed frustrating? Idk. The whole " sweaty " and " try hard " ideology to me is borderline silly to boot. Not too sure when it became a bad thing to try and win. At the end of the day it's on the devs. to adjust their game in a way that's fun for everyone. To be fair I think you're on a good train of thought, I just think it's pretty unrealistic as that'd be a community wide effort ( as you said ) and DBD isn't known for having the most open community.
the thing is with most games if both teams are trying to win its at least a symmetrical and fair experience. in this game, if one side is significantly sweatier than the other its an absolutely miserable time
@@ScottJund isn't that every game? If you're playing overwatch and you're going against a 5 man squad who know every little strategy and here you are Joe Shmo solo queueing, just playing whatever character you like, you're gonna get stomped.
@@ScottJund Oh believe me, I definitely get that. And again, I DO think you're onto a good train of thought; I just don't believe it's possible across the community. Now that's not to say I couldn't be wrong. Either way it goes it's nice to hear suggestions on how to improve the experience on both ends, shows character imo.
@@sonodv1709 even then it doesnt feel as bad because you are both trying to complete the same objective. asymmetrical games REALLY bring out the unpleasant side of one team being more stacked than the other
I could see some status effect that survivors gain for like a minute after being unhooked: 100% faster wiggle progress + added swinging, 50% faster healing when being slugged and free unbreakable. You could still tunnel and down them, but you would need to have another hook really near to make it in time. And slugging would not be possible either. On the other hand, unhooked survivors still should not be able to bully/distract the killer, bc there is still a risk to being hooked twice, and being slugged would be time consuming even with some sort of unbreakable. Considering endgames, the effects and/or the duration should be reduced when there are only 3 or 2 survivors left.
Hey Scott whats the best area to move to in jacksonville? heard the west and north of jacksonville is not a good place to move to and to go either east or south. Your thoughts?
I don't think the community working together is more 'realistic'. As a matter of fact, I think expecting the people to work together is even less realistic than the devs to actually do something about it.
I don’t play much at all but when I do I love to play carefree, mix up perks and chill on my Sadako. I think what puts me off is just how demonised I’ve been by players who’ve utterly destroyed me for being “bad at the game” It might be why players are jumping to conclusions on Reddit and going straight on the offensive because I feel “playing casually” is generally looked down on by a lot of people. Everyone just needs to chill out haha.
Another mindset killer mains seem to have is "we not responsible for others enjoyment". That's where the problem starts even survivor mains to the whole were not responsible argument. It's not what your doing it's how your going about it. I don't care if the killer hooks me or if I end up dieing on the hook but it's how you do it. I haven't had no survivors curse me out when I played killer because I played fair game not fair as in letting them go but fair as in not being a dick about it. Also, escaping or killing a whole team isn't as rewarding as both sides try to make it. Killers are very vocal about swf when it not even common as they make it to be. I had a few share of them but not like I did with tunneling and camping killers.
Ngl, I'm impressed that DbD has lasted for years. I've always considered it perk-dependent, clunky and grindy mess that becomes extremely unfun if you take it seriously. The worst part is that many players take it very seriously for some reason. I do believe that this game never supposed to be that competitive as many players want it to be.
In what world is it realistic to think that a community of thousands of players will all rejoice and sing Kumbaya and not try and play in the most effective way possible?
@@ScottJund Exactly. And "coincidently", the day after otz posts a video about how necessary tunnelling is, I see a huge spike in tunnelling (even more than usual). Majority of DBD players are actually sheep 🤣
@@RitualBlood no one cares what you saw. Your situation isn't mine or anyone elses. Check your ego bud, you're just some random on the internet. Just because you saw that doesn't mean everyone else did. Lol
@@ScottJund You're basically arguing my point. My point is that people will always try and play in the most effective manner possible, no matter how much you try and tell them otherwise. This is correct. Otzdarva posting builds and people using them doesn't change that fact, it only reinforces it.
For tunneling I’ve had an idea that I think is good and it helps both sides, it’s a little bit more boring for survivor but I mean, you won’t get tunneled. Basically once you get off of hook, for the next 30 sec, 45 sec, or 1 minute, you cannot be hit by the killer and you have no collision so you can’t body block or take hits. You can’t work on gens or cleanse or bless totems, however you can heal your teammates and that is it. Once that time is up your collision enables and you can take hits and work on gens and so on. This is just a idea I’ve had for a while now and I’m open for ideas and interpretations of what can be changed to it or flaws.
I think a survivor just off hook should get a +x% haste status effect that lasts until they do a conspicuous action or until the killer is in a chase with another survivor for 7-10 seconds. For every 5-10 seconds in a chase the survivor gets an additional amount of haste speed. The killer should have a “tunneling” icon on screen telling them the survivor is getting stacks. If they survivor gets downed and hooked again, the next time they get off the hook they’ll keep all the previous stacks and get another +x haste status effect (and lose them if the killer chases another survivor for 7-10 seconds or if they do a conspicuous action) and the stacks now additionally apply bonus speeds to vaulting. None of this applies when all the gens are done. I think if you just improve a survivor’s ability to run away and prolong a chase, it would deter the killer from tunneling. If they go after another survivor for long enough even with the unhooked survivor following close by, they’ll completely negate the stacks and be able to go back to chasing that unhooked survivor, who didn’t want to take that window of safety.
I would just give them 130% speed(same speed as BL3) so the killer could never catch them until they do a conspicuous action or get to healthy status. Keep the 10 seconds of invulnerability we have now for survivors. If they take a hit after 5 seconds, they lose the speed. This would make it so the killer couldn't effectively tunnel them(the killer would need to wait 5 seconds before they got off hook to hit them, by which time they should be ahead of the killer enough to where they can't be hit). If the survivor tries to use that time to take a hit for whoever is unhooking them, they lose the speed, and can get what is deserved in case of coordinated insta unhooks. No need in making them gradually faster if the goal is to prevent tunneling to begin with, just make them almost uncatchable until they do anything to prevent the behavior in the first place. Thing is, the devs won't do this. Some of them camp on their own, and the devs have always felt that camping and tunneling are "correct" ways to play the game. They only put in the changes to tunneling because they were losing players, so losing players is the only way to create better changes.
Regarding the entire, "casual audience that doesn't have the time" I kinda disagree. Being honest, I am fairly confident in about 15 minutes I could explain/show just about everything you need as a killer, to 4k most of your games. Literally learning what a mind game is and how to moonwalk will probably get you to 4ks, and I could explain/show both in practice in less than a minute. The rest LITERALLY is just, "How to play the generic loops" such as T L walls, jungle gyms, etc. It's actually INCREDIBLY simple generally speaking on how to play those tiles as killer and would improve kill rates a TON. I have a lot of time in the game, roughly 1600 hours. Maybe 5% of that is as killer over roughly 6 1/2 years. I genuinely find like 90% of my killer games boring, because I know the most basic of ways to play better. Learning how to walk around some windows as killer, and remembering to occasionally try turning 180 degrees and holding W instead, those don't take long to learn. Longer to master? Sure, but that doesn't matter against most survivors anyways.
The problem IS that a lot of players in this game truly believe they have to camp and tunnel to win and for the last two years I have been playing this game IT HAS gotten a hell of a lot worse. It completely boggles the mind that killers arguably received a nice buff in this game after the "meta shake up" patch yet tunneling and camping got worse. Someone please explain to me how the game got easier for killers, yet they still whine they have tunnel and camp to win?? BTW where are the tideo videos, I have looked and can't find them WTF?????
yep, pretty much why I left that reddit. sadly the killer reddit is pretty much what you're saying too, actually casual but not wanting to admit it, coming from comp games it's been such a weird thing to get into, I guess I'm happy just to be a slightly above average sized fish in a tiny pond where I can take a few days off and come back and still just do well, feel like I'm still learning. not been in your stream for a while, since I started to work on my sleeping schedule but I'll be keeping my sub going because well - I enjoy the content.
Imagine if they replaced hooks with the souls resurrection system from home sweet home survive. How it works is basically when a survivor goes down, they drop their soul exactly where they died. This “soul” does not die or bleed out, and another survivor will come across to pick it up (you can also drop it anytime). There are multiple resurrection altars around the map in which the survivor who has the soul can resurrect his teammate. A more crazy radical idea would be to make the last downed survivor into a spirit/ethereal form where they can help out their teammates somehow (so they can at least do something) and once another teammate is downed, they respawn in a random location and the cycle continues. Obviously these ideas would mess up the hook interactions with perks and require a lot of rebalancing decisions but that’s just how fucked dbd’s game design is, that you need to fix 10 problems to fix 1 problem.
People say you can't win without tunneling if you have less than 100k hours against good survivors, but they keep playing freddy with noed and tunneling at 5 gens like it's life depending. I mean some people are just stupid.
Interesting perspective. “Sweaty version is the worst aspect of this game”. Totally agree but depending on where you are in SBMM this can be worse or better. If you are a mid skill killer then you are gonna be in a lot of sweaty games. If you’re S-tier (like Scott is) then you will see way less OP SWF at your level. It’s basic maths but it definitely skews all RUclipsrs opinions in the wrong direction. So the game sucks based on your skill level. Only really fix for sweaty is more game modes which all RUclipsrs seem to think it would be the end of the game. More game modes and take out SBMM for these modes to help with queue times. Dev issue.
100% casual here due to the horrible state of the game, the worst thing is these non casual pros getting casuals to play with them and teach them to be shitty aswell lol
Probably your best video tbh. I agree its a party game. And the game does not reward time investment, there is not much difference between a 200hrs and a 3000hrs player.
I don't think this is a realistic view point at all. I believe I have a perfect (but extreme) example to compare this to. I think suggesting players should "tunnel less" in order to stop tunelling, would be the same as suggesting that people don't steal in order to reduce crime. There will always be people who seek the easiest path in life, and tunneling is the easiest way to "win" on killer. Tunnelling will continue to increase until the devs find a way to make it the most difficult way to win.
I do recall your tweets a while back about tunnelling, and if I may vaguely quote, " idk why people don't like getting tunnelled, it's the most fun part of the game getting chased. Maybe that's why people were calling you disconnected or pompus. 90% of the player base (those casuals who keep the game alive)want to do the rift, progress challenges, try to have a single ounce of " fun ", Not get tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes. The whole " well, just get good and don't get tunnelled " (not saying you personally said that) answer also is not healthy for the game at all. I dont think you're super consistent with your views on things, though ig ppl change their minds over time...
The main issue with the "let the community fix it" statement is that the majority of sweater killers I see come from console and I bet they have never even watched a DBD video.
My suggestion for fixing tunneling is to make it so if the killer's total hooks (that number in the bottom left) is equal to a survivor's hook state then any future hooks on that survivor just puts them back at the 2nd hook stage. This way all the killer has to do to actually get the kill is either camp the hooked survivor to death (which allows some counterplay with kinship, reassurance, etc) or just hook one other person one time. I feel like the way to fix tunneling is to give the tunneled survivor just enough time to get healed and go hide and I feel like one chase is just long enough for that to happen.
Tunneling is at least more fun then camping through. Gives the survivor at least a chance to buy more time without wasting perk slots, and it just further reinforces the idea of hard focusing the weakest survivor to punish good ones. Being able to force at least 2 healthy survivors off objectives while another is incapacitated for a few seconds of standing in place is a lot worse then tunneling.
@@leiah6514 what I mean is that if a singular survivor is the only one being hooked and tunneled then the condition above should take place, where let’s say one survivor is being tunneled off the bat that survivor doesn’t die even if they get hooked a third time, the hook state just goes back to the 2nd stage. This condition is then removed if any other survivor is downed and hooked Basically just changing the minimum number of hooks needed for a kill from 3 (the scenario where a survivor is hard tunneled out of the game) to 4 (one survivor having 1 hook stage used and one other survivor dying)
Some people don’t understand that issues can’t be fixed artificially. Reassurance was added because of playstyles which proves how the community impacts this game with strategy and even perks. Reassurance wouldn’t exist if camping wasn’t in this game. DS was turned into an anti tunnel perk because it was too strong in its original form of an anti dying perk. Tunneling somewhat falls under the same category, but it can’t be fixed with perks (nothing should need to be fixed with perks.) A pretty good solution that would encourage people to not tunnel is removing (or nerfing) every gen perk on both sides. They should also make it do killers have more time to chase by basekit. Maybe keep a bit of gen regression on killer to slow the game down a bit, but that’s it. Imagine a DbD world where chase perks were meta, that would be so much better than gen regression vs gen progression. Again, tunneling is something the community does for a reason, get rid of the reason. But they can’t/won’t do the gen changes unless they decide to do another 6.1.0 type overhaul, so yeah lmao
chase meta on killer makes it even easier to quickly tunnel someone out of the game, chase meta on survivor leads to longer chases (rest of team on gens --> gens will fly and "force" the killer to tunnel). we already had a chase meta in dbd, tunneling has always been a thing. so give killers more time? that's exactly what they did in 6.1.0. with 90-second gens and basekit buffs and tunnelling got even worse. if gens take longer, you can afford to tunnel/camp someone to death and make the game a 3v1 and an easy win.
@@rubygarnet6220 Then they should just add another objective and remove gen perks, that would a. give killers more time to chase and b. extend the game naturally. At this point, killers wouldn't need to tunnel. As a result, the game would most likely be less sweaty and such. Another crucial flaw to making a chase meta a good option is map designs (like garden of joy) which are extremely unbalanced. If all maps are fixed to be way balanced, generators take longer overall but have another objective to keep objectives more fun, and killers have more time to chase? That would be the peak of this game, especially considering that chases are the most fun part of this game.
Saying you can win consistently while doing zero form of tunneling and camping is like saying it's easy to get rich playing roulette. Last time I checked, most people ain't millionaires. I don't get this notion where people think we need to make the game fun for the people we play against. Such a weird mindset to have and I'll never understand it. If I'm playing a game where the end result is losing or winning, why would I ever care whether the opponent is having an enjoyable experience? That is up to them, not me.
I must agree with the game being played at its absolute sweatiest is unfun. And I can say that is the case for every game, I feel we've been pushed a lot of high skill gameplay because it's entertaining to watch and could also inspire us to challenge ourselves to reach that point. I've played very high elo for League and Overwatch and can say I rarely had fun. I found myself playing bot games afterwards to decompress and just casually enjoy the game itself which showed me that going into every single game with the intention of dominating and climbing a ranked ladder can really take the fun and enjoyment out of a game. I do like to be competitive and play some sweaty games but it's easy to get burnt out on a game with that mindset. Now that I have a 9-5 job in the bay area (as well as a 3 hour daily commute), I essentially have very little time to play games except for maybe an hour or so when I'm free that night. I regularly enjoy your content amongst Otz, Tofu, and a couple other but I haven't played dbd in about 3 months I'd say but I must say it's been more enjoyable watching you content creators bring fun videos and builds rather than playing myself. This comment post kinda became a vent so my bad but anyways, great video Scott! Hope to catch your next stream :)
i feel that tunneling (and camping) wont go anywhere unless you remove the mechanic and impact of killing survivors. the game would have to change from getting kills to hooks. but i thought of a way taking aspects from competitive dbd to do this. you can make it a hook based point system, here's what i came up with that in mind: -2 points for 1st hooks -1 point for every other hook on the same survivor -.5 point if hooks are back to back on the same survivor -10 total hook points to end the game (as a placeholder value, would need to be tested) 2 points on fresh hooks to reward the killer for chasing everyone. to deincentivize tunneling you reward half a point (.5) instead of 1 point so a killer CAN tunnel but they're less rewarded for doing it so it'd take longer to reach their goal and since there's no death then the survivors can still play and help their team by distracting the killer. since survivors cant die new survivors wouldn't feel as bad starting out. but there's a problem, not being able to kill survivors makes it very difficult for killer since you cant massively reduce their productivity. so there would need to be a debuff, maybe if a survivor is currently hooked the gens get slowed down till the survivor is unhooked (maybe 30%, something that's impactful enough to make survivors need to unhook their teammate but not broken. idk yet). with these factors the bleedout and hook timer would be removed since survivors cant die, thus making camping worthless. unhooking yourself would still be on first hook and maybe if the unhook attempt fails maybe a debuff happens so there's a risk still ( 3 attempts only, slightly additional slower gens maybe until unhooked?). also maybe making it so that killers powers cant be used or deactived within 8 meters of a hook so hook trading isnt as easy (bubba obviously). but once the hook total is reached, all remaining survivors in the trial die. so if any survivor escapes they wont die if the total is reached. of course some perks would need a rework. of course this would be a massive shakeup to the game but i feel it's the best way to change how the game is currently played. i would love to hear any suggestions to this idea
This is really great for people who care about the game, but a lot of killers really just want the impact of seeing all four survivors dead, regardless of the impact it makes on matchmaking or the people they go against. Also, not to be a dick or anything, but removing the hook timer is an absolutely terrible idea, because what you're doing at that point is you're removing all possible map pressure that the killer could ever hope to exert
@@n8with8s no worries. one of the mechanics i mentioned that i wanted to introduce, with removing timers when a survivor is on a hook, is having gen speed slowed down thus affecting all survivors. i wouldnt want a survivor on a hook if it would make gens take a lot longer. you can change that value from 30 to whatever feels right (maybe 40 percent slower gens or even 50 depending). you could include more debuffs as well. also if the hook total is reached then all survivors that are remaining would die. so that feeling of getting a 4k would still be possible.
the fact is that the same changes that were meant to give killers more time (90s gens, more and more gen regression perks, hit cooldown buffs...) so they dont feel as pressured to tunnel, actually now let them tunnel MORE efficiently
I couldn't agree more with all of your points here. you're completely right. Ever since I began watching certain content creators (usually small time streamers who play blight or billy in the most cracked out ways possible), learning to be actually skillful has looked far more appealing to me than running 3+ slowdown, tunneling and camping. If people wanna run those things to have a fair shot at doing decently, that's fine. Perfectly understandable. My personal issue with those overly strong strategies though is as you said: too many people believe that you must run 3+ slowdown, tunnel and/or camp in order to do well at all. It's so untrue and unfair. It's unfair to expect to win more than 60% of your matches, and yet people expect to win EVERY match. I genuinely believe that, in order for everyone to have a good time, the community needs to take some of it into their own hands. As much as it is bhvr's responsibility to deal with this, I honestly don't see any realistic thing they can do to prevent tunneling and camping. If people hope to have a killer or swf not sweat their brains out and BM, they shouldn't make that exception about themselves. While yes, t bagging, hitting on hook, hard camping and hard tunneling will always exist, it's about setting a better example and feeling good about yourself and what you do
Between work, friends & family, anime etc. I play dbd pretty casually. I find myself having more fun trying to run into the killer and practice chase and it sucks being tunneled. Basically Cru5h’s playstyle.
Hard to not be tunneled when you RUN into them on purpose lol. You're literally saying "daddy im special and need ALL of your attention. Give it TO ME NOW" lol
I don't understand this comment. You enjoy practicing chase and running into the killer, but think it sucks being chased by the killer (tunneled)? If you play it casually, it doesn't make much sense why this would bother you. If you get tunneled, enjoy the chase that you're getting because of it, and move onto the next game if you die. Just my two cents.
Imo it isn't "the most realistic solution", mostly because it is impossible to get everybody to do the right thing willingly. It's like saying "oh yeah, we can fix pollution, we just need all of humanity to agree not to pollute at the same time" or "oh yeah, we can get rid of crime if we all just agree not to do it" and you can't, it's impossible and unrealistic
The phrase “some of Reddit is mad at me” has the emotional impact of seeing a quadrupedal animal walk backwards and I can’t explain why.
"Oh look at that..."
The perfect image for the phrase "He a little confused but he got the spirit."
“Wild black bear spotted moonwalking in Florida”
It was on sadako's tape
Biggest clickbait for me.
Don't let this distract you, scott still got spun by a quentin.
Scott "Spunned" Jund
Get Jund on nerds
Vile Scott strikes again
HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!
@@kakugowaii5854 IT*
this low effort comment needs to die.
Scott Blunt had to sit back for this one
I truly do believe far too many people take this game much more seriously than how it is supposed to be taken. Casual play and messing around and just having fun is DBD at its best.
It's not easy to do if you're a competitive person. Actively doing things that increase your chances of losing just doesn't feel right.
@@Brisingr73 It's not at all a bad thing to want to do well at something you're doing. Don't let people tell you otherwise. EDIT: Cause either way, you paid for the game so you can play it how/take it as seriously as you want to.
I totally agree. I had games where survivors would fool around with me and I just participate in that tomfoolery, it's really fun and the positivity in the chat is really rewarding if that makes sense.
But I swear to the Entity if people send me to Cowshed, I let hellfire rain upon them.
I tunnel the weakest link out of the game.
I proxy-camp if I sense that the remaining two don't work on gens but try to go for the save.
I slug the last two to prevent unbreakable hatch plays.
I really hate Cowshed.
@@Brisingr73 This feels like that person trying too hard at the Christmas monopoli
@@Brisingr73 fair point, but like a true hunter of Hircine I'd have to respectively disagree that a game feels right or good if I've blatantly used a unfair advantage to win. The only time I've ever gone back to the hook straight away when someone is unhooked is to get the unhooker next, how can you rate yourself by tunnelling?
0:14 to be fair they have a point. Only Satan can play this game for so many hours
le Vile Scott mwa ha haaa
What does that make Otz?
@@sorin_markov Satan²
"It's been 7 years!"
Man that hit different.
I was 11 when this game came out and I played it when it first came out 😨
@@welshshortie2345 toddler tier
@@king_slimy8859 that ain't their fault. You right, but it ain't their fault
Vile Scott using light mode, couldn't be more fitting
Videos like this are why I'm subbed to scot, dude can come off like an "asshole" but he's never trying to be one, just speaks his mind, but is willing to clarify if he came off badly. Good guy.
Vile Scott is too pure for this world
@@arxidiax2arxidiax276 Too Vile*
He is biased, 100%
@@blazeyprime4470 more like an survivor shill
@@blazeyprime4470 describe his bias, because I (and others) *doubt*
There’s also another issue with these debates which is someone always has to lose. For every 200 Survivor escape streak there’s 200 killer games they lose. For every 2000 Nurse 4K streak there’s 2000 games where Survivors lose.
The point is someone always loses so it’s preposterous to want to always win every one of your games. It’s simply stupid.
If you find yourself losing more than you win and you care enough to want to win. Then a good way to start getting better is watching your matches back. Cuz I know it helped me realise a lot of mistakes I was making. Another thing could be trying to stick to just 1 or 2 killers instead of trying to play all 30 odd.
And the MOST important advice I have is to play the other side or at least watch people play the other side. Because the more you know about the other side the more you learn how to counter and make plays more effectively
Dont forget that dbd reddit are the most "passionate" dbd fans so there isn't usually a lot of logic coming from reddit
DBD reddit changes it's mind SOLELY to piss on the dev team. Every post was about how Eruption is ruining the game and when the nerf dropped, they all immediately complained about it being ruined and useless and also compared Eruption to Spine Chill in terms of power lol
@@dekudude8888 While I agree with you, the example used is poor because Eruption was very strong but got gutted. It will do basically nothing for most killers now because the 10% current progress regression is so minimal.
@@dekudude8888 yeah because perks should be nerfed not gutted . Your game doesn’t have good balance if the devs gut any perk that was op. Eruption should still be viable but not op.
@@dekudude8888od I HATED those memes when they purposely misinterpreted the frustration “well u asked for a nerf didnt u haha” when the argument is, the perk needed a nerf, not deletion
@@dekudude8888 At least some people have a use for spine chill. Eruption was unofficially removed from the game.
If Reddit is mad at you, you're doing something right.
Reddit would be mad at someone for being right, wrong, or anything in between. Not a reliable compass for correctness in any direction lol
Kid named Cat-Kicking:
@@auctoritate8254 considering i once got people angry at me for simply debunking a dbd myth you are right
It's true, Reddit was pretty mad at humanity's greatest hero, Jeffery Epstein. Everything he did was right because it made Reddit mad.
@@dumblenutz5561 I got disliked on a bunny subreddit for saying "Aw man, rabbits eat their own crap, gross!"
Got Like 30 dislikes. It astounded me. Were they....offended? Did they eat their own DUNG?
Moral of the story, anything pisses off reddit.
As someone in that Reddit comment section stated “you could make such a good drama series based on this game's community lmao”.
As long as it ends with me making sweet love to Ada and Jill I'm for it
You'd make one episode and everyone would stop watching it because it would be THAT dumb lmao
Honestly, I see the tunneling issue as this right now. You can't trust the players to behave themselves with the ability to tunnel or genrush, so someone either has to step in (behaviour), or it just won't ever sort itself out.
yeah thats true, but you can.
As far as I know, neither of those are against the rules. The fact people think these are somehow a form of misbehavior is actually fucking hilarious.
People dwell way too long after one match of this game, it's so odd. Go next and stfu.
Personally, I think that BHVR should change the game in ways that make the most people angry.
I definitely agree with Scott on this but it’s really hard and annoying. I’ve been trying to not tunnel as killer unless I absolutely have to (the unhooked person is body blocking etc) but then when I lose I get tbaged or called names in endgame chat. Or when I win I get told how bad I am…. Then when I play survivor and try to run fun builds I still get camped by killers and spammed hit on hook for looping well. So then I just go “f it” and play shitty again. And I feel like it’s just this reoccurring cycle.
I feel like that's a good chunk of us. We didn't come into the game with evil intentions. We wanted to have fun and were perfectly cool with letting survivors have fun, too. But when the toxicity on both sides is never-ending, sometimes you're just a human being that can't easily shrug it off, so you say eff it and start tunneling some mother f'ers.
Here’s my advice, just play with common sense. If you see a survivor on death hook, go after them, if they were literally just unhooked and you don’t want to immediately go after them, fine, give them a chance to get away. But if you’re at 2-1 gens, I would say just go after them.
It shouldn’t be toxic to play with common sense. Why would I go after the Dwight who either hasn’t been hooked, or only hooked once, over the Nea who is on death hook?
Look at it this way. When was the last time you saw a survivor forgo a strong loop for a weaker one? or let themselves be downed after getting chased for a set amount of time? or ignored the 90% gen to start repairing the 0% one? I’ve been playing for almost 2 years, about 80% being killer, and I’ve never seen a survivor do any of those things. So if they’re not expected to purposefully play worse for the sake of the killer. Then why are killers expected to purposefully play worse for the sake of survivors?
Dead by Daylight and Reddit is an ungodly abomination disturbing enough to shiver an average Twitter user's soul. Maybe a dbd redditor will be the next Killer???
Isn’t that just Legion?
Isn't that just clown?
Isn't that just Dredge?
Too fat to even move. Maybe they just roll and their main method of attack is to squirt soy at anything that moves withering it until it can no longer move itself and just dies
You're pretending DBD Twitter is any better.
The number one thing I've taken away from reddit no matter what game it is if you tell them to just play better to solve the problem, and that is justifiably the solution you're gonna get flamed every time. They just cannot handle being told they're not playing well enough to counter what's upsetting them
A lot of people who are unhappy don't want to change their behavior. They want the world to change around them.
@@sanield2782 yup .9 K/D players want everything built around them
Your first mistake was going on Reddit, 4head. But yea, it’s just people screeching about a streamer they irrationally hate
At least he bothers to try and understand why, even if it's irrational/unreasonable; and then have the decency to address it reasonably anyway. First mistake *always* is logging on to reddit looking for reason and rationality though
@@jeremycorbin2178 I also fall into the habit of browsing Reddit. People just irrationally hate him, like they do with Otz, purely on the basis that he is a streamer.
@@nolanthedude At least Vile Scott sometimes sounds like a smartass (obvs without realizing it and I like it that way), Otz copping it on that godforsaken forum is only disheartening to hear.
That guy visibly tries with all his might to be as wholesome as Santa on a Sunday even when he's being BM'd by four people in the same lobby; it's inspiring shit
@@nolanthedude I mostly browse Reddit for smaller communities, and to also be on the look out for Steam scams. Ever since I got scammed once, I've been trying to be weary of new and ever present scams being made, and to help people avoid being scammed.
@@nolanthedude Its kind of the opposite with Otz. Most people take his advice and commentary blindly without really grasping the points he is making sometimes. "If otz says this is a good build and using this playstyle is the most effective way to win then I must also do so."
But Scott, if people of Reddit spend time getting better in DbD, then they won't be on Reddit complaining!
Scott: You can get better at the game if you try
What people hear: If you breathe you should be getting better at dead by daylight. Forget your family and play silly little party game
9:19 OMG TITTY O'S SOUNDS LIKE A CEREAL
I agree somewhat on your points about “we don’t need to play to win every time.” After 2k hours of the game I started thinking of the game as a “horror super smash bros”. Some games I don’t even care about the gens and just go for the chases or silly perk loadouts (i’m a killer main). When I go up against bully squads who go out of their way to annoy me I just set my killer to stare at a corner and suddenly no one can play :D
Look at what you have to do
Hell yeah brother, I'm a casual player. I take my 4 man out's on the nose, I actually recently, in the past year, have begun to play the game EXPLCITLY going for 8 hooks, and 4 Escapes on killer. Usually going in with literally only Shadowborn and holy crap. The game has gotten SIGNIFICANTLY more fun in this playstyle. I recommend people try it out, seriously. Made my entire mentality with the game become way softer and survivors are generally more chill and they hangout with me in post game.
I tried to do that one or twice but something in my brain just turn on and it COMPELLS me to 4k. Every time I try to play chill it just happens. I see that one nea t bag and click spam, I get cheated out of a Wesker dash and lose power, I hear two gens pop off back to back ECT. And then I go from chill to I will do any amount of ungodly things to you to plummet your fun into the ground and win
@@thedoomslayer5863 sounds like you should try playing single player games then 🤔
THIS. the game is way more fun when you give yourself alternative objectives. when i play survivor my goal is to have good chases and flashbang the killer once per game lol. on killer i’m just there to chill and get a bunch of hooks.
The post game chat is so different if you go for 8 hooks and play around, vs tunnelling and slugging repeatedly for a 4k. And from my experience, the bloodpoints you earn are roughly the same, whether you go for lots of chases and lots of hooks or less hooks, but tunnel for quick kills.
@@axcs_steele i do have more fun in them yeah. but im also addicted to DBD so that aint happening lol
Time for Reddit reacts to Scott reacts to Reddit reacts to Scott reacts to Otz
The community is so divided but they don’t seem to realize both sides hate rushed games.
They have somehow all the perspective and none of the perspective.
An idea I heard before & work on it a bit myself, so here goes.
If the killer goes for you just as you got off your first hook, you gain the "resistance" effect. (could use a better name, not sure what)
You have a 25% on your wiggle bar. This effect will go away when the killer hooks someone else.
I was thinking of making the second hook a 35% to 40% 25% on your wiggle bar as a "last-ditch effort" to escape
however, it might be abusable so I would cap it to 25%.
Even at 25% it would be extremely abusable. Just force the killer to chase you and then go down in a corner with no hooks/have your teammates bodyblock/sabotage the hooks. It also wouldn't do anything if the killer just downs you next to a hook, or brings agitation/iron grasp.
@@sonodv1709
That was one of the strats that players could do; however, the other side of the argument a friend of mine said, there in the corner & bleeding out. If they don't have unbrakeabill, then someone has to get them, which that's two players, not doing gens.
@@spiritupgrades But also 2 players doing generators and no hooks to show for the time loss. The "Comp Corner' strategy needs looking into tbh.
@@spiritupgrades I guess that's true but then just bring unbreakable or overcome. I'd don't think giving players even more protection when being tunneled is a good solution because it can and will be abused. Even if it's not super strong, it still feels bad on the receiving end. Take your example situation, a surv in the corner bleeding out and a teammate having to save them, it still sucks and isn't fun to not be able to hook the surv you downed, and it also sucks as a teammate to have to go to the corner of the map and pick up your teammate cuz they got tunneled. Maybe I'm wrong though and this would stop tunneling in its tracks.
@@sonodv1709
Maybe you are right; it's not perfect & It does need more fixing to be workable; however, it's an idea that seems simple enough that it could work strictly for just tunneling.
Although if bubba has iron & agiy, then there's no saving you from bubbas basement.
So, I used to take this game kinda seriously. 4k'd most of my games. Got kinda sweaty when the survs BM'd...
But recently, I decided I won't play the game right. I decided to go for two hooks each, then let them all go. Any sacrifices I get are gonna be survs giving up, BM punishment, or challenge related... and in all honesty, it's made things so much more pleasant.
No longer do I see someone getting mad in post game chat every session. No longer do I struggle to get some challenges done, no longer do I dread playing the game. It's fun again. Sure, most of the time I'm bullying babies, but I get what I want, and they get to escape like they want. We all win. Most (90%) chat interactions are fun and nice rather than the salt of high mmrs. Gods they get so salty.
Glad to see a fellow "2 hook everyone and done" person. I wish there was a better way to track who has how many hook states other than memory, because sometimes it gets quite hectic and I accidentally kill someone who I thought was on the hook only once.
@@Runko69 I used dice, but recently went to button badges, and just have them near my keyboard.
Good luck in your games!
Reddit being mad at you means you’re doing something right.
my idea would work, killer downs me hooks me I get saved they got after me down and rehook 2x in row instead of going to 2nd stage I go back to first stage, if I was in second stage and then tunneled back to being struggle mode not death mode, it will keep killers from tunneling/hooking same person unless they really want to waste their time. a way to stop this from being abused by killers who just slug you right away and wait abtt to then hook you should count to, cause they still tunneled ya off hook they just didnt put ya on hook straight away. There lots of ways to fix tunneling. I seen killers hook someone chase someone else soon as saved they bee line back to the hook to down hook.
Scott, people are absolutely dumb. From someone who pays attention to the dbd community they don't know what they're talking about and just want attention or to be right. Coco is basically dealing with the same thing and people just want to be treated better than others and hate being called out, even if you don't do that. You're my favorite content creator for this game because of how you approach problems and seek solutions. Love your vids man.
This is literally every gaming community on Reddit. They get irrationally angry at some utterly minor nitpick, start diving deep into mob mentality over irrelevant and unimportant needling and smoothbrain takes, downvote anyone who even slightly disagrees with them into oblivion, then suddenly have a collective realization that the entire thing was idiotic and likely manufactured for clout by a handful of really toxic idiots with an agenda. Rinse, repeat, spawn at least one circlejerk sub mocking the whole thing in retaliation that soon falls into the same mentality.
The Resident Evil sub for instance is just now starting to claw its way back from a truly bonkers level of hate for the Resident Evil 3 Remake when a bunch of the people fanning the flames had a mask-off incel moment and tried to turn the narrative into "Jill swears too much and doesn't show her tits enough to be fuckable" and they all realized how gross they had been about it.
Yay a 12 am skeet video I can watch while I suffer from being sick! Thank you scotter
Love this POV. As a survivor main with 5k+ hours, I refuse to use DH and hyper focus/stake out type builds because it's typically wholly unnecessary save for vsing full slowdown and even then not.. and since I mod for a killer main I've seen the damage DH can do.
Plus it's much more rewarding to be able to actually vs and beat some of the strongest, nastiest meta killer builds with a build consisting of desperate measures/no one left behind/guardian and something like FTP or autodidact or other. It's actually quite a fun build to use against camping/tunneling.
They never expect the quick grab and guardian prevents them from being able to ignore me and go look for the unhooked UNLESS they physically spot them because they're faster, leave no blood, no scratch marks and don't grunt. AND if it's after end game they get a 14% speed boost (from guardian and no one left behind stacking) on top of base kit BT boost.
This actually saved ME because I got hit when I went for the unhook and as we were running to the open door that teammate was fast enough to body block the killer from reaching me with base kit borrowed. It's games like that where my niche stuff works out so well that make it worthwhile.
Desperate Measures is underrated frfr
I think the nerfing of perks like pop, bbq, and similar perks that reward quick chases with an entry into another chase or a chunk of Gen pressure. It resulted in the most pressure being killing someone off. Fast chases aren't enough because the perks that help those have been nerfed and now it's like a gen maintenance Gen kick meta where chases are a second thing vs keeping the gens down. It's a clash of playstyles.
Makes me miss those days too. I was happy with the overall killer buff, but they just made perks like Eruption, Pain Res, and Jolt good that actually further reward camping and barely moving around the map. Never was a fan of passive slowdown that doesn’t even make you interrupt survivors on gens, since that only leaves hooks as an objective to protect.
@Leiah jolts always been good, even with the cool down it was amazing info to check gens around you.
i mean, reddit always cry about everything. they don't try to fix things
The funadmental issue that has gotten me to stop playing DbD much lately is just that too many of the "anti-tunneling" changes which the devs implement are also able to be 'weaponized' by survivors against you even if you aren't tunneling. In some cases in ways that are even more damaging than if you were tunneling (having to go through 4x DS procs because unhooked survivors will body block to force you to down them for value if they see that you'll leave them and spread pressure too much).
Rewarding non-tunneling play so that it is as valuable (or more valuable) to killers is the solution, more carrot, less stick.
>”to the people who say you can’t win without doing X, I can prove you win and you deserve some shit for that.”
Ok, win without downing or hooking anyone or letting anyone DC.
People who watch Scott , understand Scott. Not these internet goblins who complain just for sake of complaining and taking things out of context
The priorities are in the wrong place. This community is so worried about who’s camping , who’s tunneling , who’s toxic instead of being persistent on change and actually direct that energy towards dev’s to address problems. This community just can’t do that.
@@IBeSimmerz Yeah, it's very hard for people to point the finger in the right direction.
And then there's the whole discussion on how much responsibility players have when they play the game. Some? None? Kind of subjective at the end of the day.
Maybe next time have Stoner Scott deliver the argument?
Jokes aside though, I think we all agree it's a bit out there to expect the entire community to change but like you said, it's been 7 freaking years. And it baffles me how people keep expecting tomorrow to be the day and are content to no t even try anything. Almost every player of this game has a grievance with something that we've all been waiting for it to get fixed for months, in the best case scenario, or even years, in the worst case. Yet when someone points something out or tries to give a solution, everyone piles on them and attacks them while ignoring the overall issue.
I mean, at the end of the day… the people who are doing the tunneling *are* part of the community though, so I would definitely say it is still partly the community’s fault.
The devs have had 7 years to fix it all yeah, but we’ve had 7 years to stop sweating in a casual game and just have fun and mess around. And the majority of the community/player base have shown that they just don’t actually care.
From my perspective as 70/30 survivor/killer split, the way I perceive the game is that killers often don't feel like they actually want to play the game in a normal or fun way, they want a 4k handed to them on a platter, now I know that this ISNT the case for all killers, but definitely some of them. For survivors the main gripe I hear is inability to just play the game, being camped/tunneled denies gameplay in the worst way imo. The survivor complaint that comes off as unrealistic is whining about hatch constantly, slow down perks, and obnoxious powers at times
To go in the other direction I think a balance is needed between purely casual and sweaty, I almost agree with you that sweaty is the worst version of this game, but if we removed ALL sweat and all went pure casual, by your estimation, every single solitary killer would face camp and tunnel HARD, and we'd accept it cause they are casual and do not want to learn.
It's obviously never gonna work out ideally but the ideal is zero sweat, some casuals, and most of the rest in the middle area where they don't sweat with all the best perks and nurse / all the best perks on survivor / SWF comp squad, but they also don't face camp, tunnel, kill themselves on hook, etc.
I agree with a lot of what you said here. I do think there's a middle ground between needing to hard-core tunnel and camp every game and just getting better and not needing to do that. I think the middle ground is a bit of both. I've seen in myself as well as Otz when he's in a sweaty match and the smallest mistake ever can cost him the game and survivors aren't making any. They're a SWF with crazy medkits and toolboxes and gens are flying and it seems like no matter how quick your chases are gens are faster and you tell yourself at a certain point. "Alright I need to tunnel this person out. I'm losing gens way to fast." Which is completely different than tunneling from the very start of the game. I belive that's the middle ground between the two because at a certain point you face survivors who are so good that there's not many options.
I also agree with you that the game is at it's worst when it's sweaty but only in terms of balancing. So like right now it's the sweetiest we have ever seen while simultaneously requiring the least skill. Right now we are seeing on both sides where one side wins that was heavily outplayed all game but there was very little that could be done. So I think the game is at its worse when it's sweaty in terms of balancing and meta. But I actually think it's at it's best (depending on the mood) when it is played sweaty because both sides are anxious and try. It makes it feel like an actual horror game a bit.
Scott: "dont watch tittos, they are temporary, getting gud is eternal"
Im mostly a survivor main but like to play killer casually and yeah, Im rlly bad at it. I whiff all the time, I cannot for the life of me mind game survivors and the gens pop seemingly all in a row, and yet I find no joy in just standing around by a hook or seeing the poor same survivor on my screen until they die, it's just not fun (maybe that's just from my survivor experience). At the same time, I cant rlly blame inexperienced killers like myself for resorting to these strats bc at the end of the day, it feels good to get a 4k or at least eliminate the pesky flashlight loving teabagger. It's like you said, casual players cant rlly get shit for being casual, it's more of a community effort to make sure everyone has their moment of fun and what's not, and the fact reddit completely missed that is just confusing. Not every game is gonna be your time in the spotlight where you loop the killer for 5 gens and teabag at the exit gate, I think the community would be better off just taking the L sometimes and moving on to another match.
This’ll just make em mad. They don’t wanna admit that camping and tunneling isnt skillfull.
Bringing strong items isn't either. Neither are boons. Neither is holding a button to do a gen. Wtf is your point here? The survivor role is much easier to play. Why do you think that even after the killer patch, the role is consistently the role that gets extra BP for choosing it? Because it's still the tougher role to play.
@@WutTheDeuceGaming Killer definitely is more stressful, but it’s not easier. It’s always 100% or 50% bonus BP to survivors in my area and my killer queue times reach up to 20 minutes compared to seconds for soloq. I used to purely main survivor until a year ago and now I barely play it because my win rates went from 60-80% to barely 10%, with the complete opposite for killer. It went from meta survivors to only really unfavorable maps being a deciding factor. If I play sweaty myself on killer, I’ll be lucky to lose a match or two a week.
My losses on killer may be more frustrating, but they are MASSIVELY less frequent. None of my old DBD friends even play survivor anymore, and even when I scrounge up enough to play they barely play through more then 3 matches before quitting. The game may be the most balanced it’s been in a long time, but it’s in a very unhealthy way that punishes people who want to play for fun.
There's also something to be said about the mindset of 'I have to *WIN*'
What constitutes a 'win?' All four survivors dead? Getting at least all four survivors hooked at least twice? At least once? Killing at least one survivor or at least three? People getting so hung up on 'I HAVE TO WIN' are absolutely stuck on the idea that if any survivors completed any gens then it's some affront to their gaming ability. And that, in part, is on the Devs too. I say 'In Part' because let's face it, for nearly 6 years the game tells you that if you didn't kill at least 1 survivor period '**ENTITY DISPLEASED**' like it's your dad who's disappointed in you or something. Now, I think ( I haven't played the game in a long while ) they've relaxed that and you have to play super bad or it the game doesn't say it at all or something. Maybe it's reworded to 'The Entity Hungers'
But the idea that you have to **WIN** in order to get any enjoyment out of the game is silly. It's a component of having fun, but I've had a lot more fun out of DbD with doing silly things like Freddy Gen-Teleporting on someone during a chase with them and jump scaring the hecc out of them, or using 'Reverse Wraith' to spook people with the terror radius and mess with their heads. Sure, hooking is fun, but I don't need to get all four people to consider it a *win*
Calling everyone that disagrees with you a loser and posting their address was a bold move Scott, but I respect it
You offered up a suggestion, 100% fair. The thing is.. where's the line between not being " sweaty " or playing like a competitive team and just.. not.
Each side has very simple goals. Survivors have to survive and fix gens. until they can leave. Killers have to kill and stop their progression. I mean.. the objectives are pretty black and white.
What would one side do specifically to tune down actions that the community have deemed frustrating?
Idk. The whole " sweaty " and " try hard " ideology to me is borderline silly to boot. Not too sure when it became a bad thing to try and win.
At the end of the day it's on the devs. to adjust their game in a way that's fun for everyone. To be fair I think you're on a good train of thought, I just think it's pretty unrealistic as that'd be a community wide effort ( as you said ) and DBD isn't known for having the most open community.
the thing is with most games if both teams are trying to win its at least a symmetrical and fair experience. in this game, if one side is significantly sweatier than the other its an absolutely miserable time
@@ScottJund isn't that every game? If you're playing overwatch and you're going against a 5 man squad who know every little strategy and here you are Joe Shmo solo queueing, just playing whatever character you like, you're gonna get stomped.
@@ScottJund Oh believe me, I definitely get that. And again, I DO think you're onto a good train of thought; I just don't believe it's possible across the community. Now that's not to say I couldn't be wrong. Either way it goes it's nice to hear suggestions on how to improve the experience on both ends, shows character imo.
@@sonodv1709 even then it doesnt feel as bad because you are both trying to complete the same objective. asymmetrical games REALLY bring out the unpleasant side of one team being more stacked than the other
@@ScottJund I guess that's true, I somewhat disagree but I can understand ur point
"Some of Reddit is Mad at Me"
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
I could see some status effect that survivors gain for like a minute after being unhooked:
100% faster wiggle progress + added swinging, 50% faster healing when being slugged and free unbreakable.
You could still tunnel and down them, but you would need to have another hook really near to make it in time. And slugging would not be possible either.
On the other hand, unhooked survivors still should not be able to bully/distract the killer, bc there is still a risk to being hooked twice, and being slugged would be time consuming even with some sort of unbreakable.
Considering endgames, the effects and/or the duration should be reduced when there are only 3 or 2 survivors left.
Hey Scott whats the best area to move to in jacksonville? heard the west and north of jacksonville is not a good place to move to and to go either east or south. Your thoughts?
I don't think the community working together is more 'realistic'. As a matter of fact, I think expecting the people to work together is even less realistic than the devs to actually do something about it.
thats fine, we're allowed to have different opinions.
@@ScottJund you’re really expecting people to actually do something good for once?
@@shmekelfreckles8157 some people are
I don’t play much at all but when I do I love to play carefree, mix up perks and chill on my Sadako. I think what puts me off is just how demonised I’ve been by players who’ve utterly destroyed me for being “bad at the game”
It might be why players are jumping to conclusions on Reddit and going straight on the offensive because I feel “playing casually” is generally looked down on by a lot of people. Everyone just needs to chill out haha.
Getting the DBD community to agree on something is like having America and Russia becoming besties overnight.
Another mindset killer mains seem to have is "we not responsible for others enjoyment". That's where the problem starts even survivor mains to the whole were not responsible argument. It's not what your doing it's how your going about it. I don't care if the killer hooks me or if I end up dieing on the hook but it's how you do it. I haven't had no survivors curse me out when I played killer because I played fair game not fair as in letting them go but fair as in not being a dick about it. Also, escaping or killing a whole team isn't as rewarding as both sides try to make it. Killers are very vocal about swf when it not even common as they make it to be. I had a few share of them but not like I did with tunneling and camping killers.
Ngl, I'm impressed that DbD has lasted for years. I've always considered it perk-dependent, clunky and grindy mess that becomes extremely unfun if you take it seriously. The worst part is that many players take it very seriously for some reason. I do believe that this game never supposed to be that competitive as many players want it to be.
Casual players are the ones that play license killers they love, even if they are F tier. BHVR wouldn't make any money if not for casuals.
I am currently feeding my 1 month old baby as I watch this. I'm going right back to camping and tunneling when she sleeps after
punt that baby across the room and start learning to win you scrub
Drop the weak links and improve your grind further. Abandon your child and only play DBD
#SigmaMindset
Tbh people just need 2 start treating games like games again ffs
If I don't 4K at 5 gens, my family will disown me!
vilescott preaches to the choir for that sweet sweet youtube ad revenue
In what world is it realistic to think that a community of thousands of players will all rejoice and sing Kumbaya and not try and play in the most effective way possible?
do you see how many people will switch to a build otz posts a day after he does so? its not as silly as you'd think, though still super unlikely
@@ScottJund Exactly. And "coincidently", the day after otz posts a video about how necessary tunnelling is, I see a huge spike in tunnelling (even more than usual). Majority of DBD players are actually sheep 🤣
@@RitualBlood no one cares what you saw. Your situation isn't mine or anyone elses. Check your ego bud, you're just some random on the internet. Just because you saw that doesn't mean everyone else did. Lol
100% unrealistic, which is what makes this topic absolutely pointless.
@@ScottJund You're basically arguing my point. My point is that people will always try and play in the most effective manner possible, no matter how much you try and tell them otherwise. This is correct. Otzdarva posting builds and people using them doesn't change that fact, it only reinforces it.
For tunneling I’ve had an idea that I think is good and it helps both sides, it’s a little bit more boring for survivor but I mean, you won’t get tunneled. Basically once you get off of hook, for the next 30 sec, 45 sec, or 1 minute, you cannot be hit by the killer and you have no collision so you can’t body block or take hits. You can’t work on gens or cleanse or bless totems, however you can heal your teammates and that is it. Once that time is up your collision enables and you can take hits and work on gens and so on. This is just a idea I’ve had for a while now and I’m open for ideas and interpretations of what can be changed to it or flaws.
reddit: if you dont have a victim complex yet, you can get one there today
I think a survivor just off hook should get a +x% haste status effect that lasts until they do a conspicuous action or until the killer is in a chase with another survivor for 7-10 seconds. For every 5-10 seconds in a chase the survivor gets an additional amount of haste speed. The killer should have a “tunneling” icon on screen telling them the survivor is getting stacks. If they survivor gets downed and hooked again, the next time they get off the hook they’ll keep all the previous stacks and get another +x haste status effect (and lose them if the killer chases another survivor for 7-10 seconds or if they do a conspicuous action) and the stacks now additionally apply bonus speeds to vaulting. None of this applies when all the gens are done.
I think if you just improve a survivor’s ability to run away and prolong a chase, it would deter the killer from tunneling. If they go after another survivor for long enough even with the unhooked survivor following close by, they’ll completely negate the stacks and be able to go back to chasing that unhooked survivor, who didn’t want to take that window of safety.
I would just give them 130% speed(same speed as BL3) so the killer could never catch them until they do a conspicuous action or get to healthy status. Keep the 10 seconds of invulnerability we have now for survivors. If they take a hit after 5 seconds, they lose the speed. This would make it so the killer couldn't effectively tunnel them(the killer would need to wait 5 seconds before they got off hook to hit them, by which time they should be ahead of the killer enough to where they can't be hit). If the survivor tries to use that time to take a hit for whoever is unhooking them, they lose the speed, and can get what is deserved in case of coordinated insta unhooks. No need in making them gradually faster if the goal is to prevent tunneling to begin with, just make them almost uncatchable until they do anything to prevent the behavior in the first place. Thing is, the devs won't do this. Some of them camp on their own, and the devs have always felt that camping and tunneling are "correct" ways to play the game. They only put in the changes to tunneling because they were losing players, so losing players is the only way to create better changes.
“Twitters mad at me but I don’t care because Twitter isn’t a real place”
-Dave Chapelle
He said "sorry" oh dang! We got him boyz!
Regarding the entire, "casual audience that doesn't have the time" I kinda disagree.
Being honest, I am fairly confident in about 15 minutes I could explain/show just about everything you need as a killer, to 4k most of your games.
Literally learning what a mind game is and how to moonwalk will probably get you to 4ks, and I could explain/show both in practice in less than a minute.
The rest LITERALLY is just, "How to play the generic loops" such as T L walls, jungle gyms, etc. It's actually INCREDIBLY simple generally speaking on how to play those tiles as killer and would improve kill rates a TON.
I have a lot of time in the game, roughly 1600 hours. Maybe 5% of that is as killer over roughly 6 1/2 years. I genuinely find like 90% of my killer games boring, because I know the most basic of ways to play better. Learning how to walk around some windows as killer, and remembering to occasionally try turning 180 degrees and holding W instead, those don't take long to learn. Longer to master? Sure, but that doesn't matter against most survivors anyways.
The problem IS that a lot of players in this game truly believe they have to camp and tunnel to win and for the last two years I have been playing this game IT HAS gotten a hell of a lot worse. It completely boggles the mind that killers arguably received a nice buff in this game after the "meta shake up" patch yet tunneling and camping got worse. Someone please explain to me how the game got easier for killers, yet they still whine they have tunnel and camp to win?? BTW where are the tideo videos, I have looked and can't find them WTF?????
yep, pretty much why I left that reddit.
sadly the killer reddit is pretty much what you're saying too, actually casual but not wanting to admit it, coming from comp games it's been such a weird thing to get into, I guess I'm happy just to be a slightly above average sized fish in a tiny pond where I can take a few days off and come back and still just do well, feel like I'm still learning.
not been in your stream for a while, since I started to work on my sleeping schedule but I'll be keeping my sub going because well - I enjoy the content.
Imagine if they replaced hooks with the souls resurrection system from home sweet home survive. How it works is basically when a survivor goes down, they drop their soul exactly where they died. This “soul” does not die or bleed out, and another survivor will come across to pick it up (you can also drop it anytime). There are multiple resurrection altars around the map in which the survivor who has the soul can resurrect his teammate.
A more crazy radical idea would be to make the last downed survivor into a spirit/ethereal form where they can help out their teammates somehow (so they can at least do something) and once another teammate is downed, they respawn in a random location and the cycle continues.
Obviously these ideas would mess up the hook interactions with perks and require a lot of rebalancing decisions but that’s just how fucked dbd’s game design is, that you need to fix 10 problems to fix 1 problem.
The only thing I get mad at Scott for is not using dark mode on Reddit
People say you can't win without tunneling if you have less than 100k hours against good survivors, but they keep playing freddy with noed and tunneling at 5 gens like it's life depending. I mean some people are just stupid.
Interesting perspective. “Sweaty version is the worst aspect of this game”. Totally agree but depending on where you are in SBMM this can be worse or better. If you are a mid skill killer then you are gonna be in a lot of sweaty games. If you’re S-tier (like Scott is) then you will see way less OP SWF at your level. It’s basic maths but it definitely skews all RUclipsrs opinions in the wrong direction. So the game sucks based on your skill level. Only really fix for sweaty is more game modes which all RUclipsrs seem to think it would be the end of the game. More game modes and take out SBMM for these modes to help with queue times. Dev issue.
100% casual here due to the horrible state of the game, the worst thing is these non casual pros getting casuals to play with them and teach them to be shitty aswell lol
Probably your best video tbh. I agree its a party game. And the game does not reward time investment, there is not much difference between a 200hrs and a 3000hrs player.
more perks they won't use
I don't think this is a realistic view point at all. I believe I have a perfect (but extreme) example to compare this to. I think suggesting players should "tunnel less" in order to stop tunelling, would be the same as suggesting that people don't steal in order to reduce crime. There will always be people who seek the easiest path in life, and tunneling is the easiest way to "win" on killer. Tunnelling will continue to increase until the devs find a way to make it the most difficult way to win.
Pog new scoot vid
I do recall your tweets a while back about tunnelling, and if I may vaguely quote, " idk why people don't like getting tunnelled, it's the most fun part of the game getting chased. Maybe that's why people were calling you disconnected or pompus. 90% of the player base (those casuals who keep the game alive)want to do the rift, progress challenges, try to have a single ounce of " fun ", Not get tunneled out of the game in 2 minutes. The whole " well, just get good and don't get tunnelled " (not saying you personally said that) answer also is not healthy for the game at all. I dont think you're super consistent with your views on things, though ig ppl change their minds over time...
The main issue with the "let the community fix it" statement is that the majority of sweater killers I see come from console and I bet they have never even watched a DBD video.
I am not even saying the best killers are the console ones either. The ones most likely to camp or tunnel out at 5 gens.
Might get on my alt steam account and tunnel as trickster for fun after seeing this. Never done it in my life but you've inspired me
Vile Scott looks like he used to play tinker in his dota days, for some reason
Just another video where Scott tells his viewers to tunnel.
Don’t worry Scott. The Breaderhood hears you loud and clear.
My suggestion for fixing tunneling is to make it so if the killer's total hooks (that number in the bottom left) is equal to a survivor's hook state then any future hooks on that survivor just puts them back at the 2nd hook stage. This way all the killer has to do to actually get the kill is either camp the hooked survivor to death (which allows some counterplay with kinship, reassurance, etc) or just hook one other person one time. I feel like the way to fix tunneling is to give the tunneled survivor just enough time to get healed and go hide and I feel like one chase is just long enough for that to happen.
Tunneling is at least more fun then camping through. Gives the survivor at least a chance to buy more time without wasting perk slots, and it just further reinforces the idea of hard focusing the weakest survivor to punish good ones. Being able to force at least 2 healthy survivors off objectives while another is incapacitated for a few seconds of standing in place is a lot worse then tunneling.
@@leiah6514 what I mean is that if a singular survivor is the only one being hooked and tunneled then the condition above should take place, where let’s say one survivor is being tunneled off the bat that survivor doesn’t die even if they get hooked a third time, the hook state just goes back to the 2nd stage. This condition is then removed if any other survivor is downed and hooked
Basically just changing the minimum number of hooks needed for a kill from 3 (the scenario where a survivor is hard tunneled out of the game) to 4 (one survivor having 1 hook stage used and one other survivor dying)
Some people don’t understand that issues can’t be fixed artificially. Reassurance was added because of playstyles which proves how the community impacts this game with strategy and even perks. Reassurance wouldn’t exist if camping wasn’t in this game. DS was turned into an anti tunnel perk because it was too strong in its original form of an anti dying perk. Tunneling somewhat falls under the same category, but it can’t be fixed with perks (nothing should need to be fixed with perks.) A pretty good solution that would encourage people to not tunnel is removing (or nerfing) every gen perk on both sides. They should also make it do killers have more time to chase by basekit. Maybe keep a bit of gen regression on killer to slow the game down a bit, but that’s it. Imagine a DbD world where chase perks were meta, that would be so much better than gen regression vs gen progression. Again, tunneling is something the community does for a reason, get rid of the reason. But they can’t/won’t do the gen changes unless they decide to do another 6.1.0 type overhaul, so yeah lmao
chase meta on killer makes it even easier to quickly tunnel someone out of the game, chase meta on survivor leads to longer chases (rest of team on gens --> gens will fly and "force" the killer to tunnel). we already had a chase meta in dbd, tunneling has always been a thing.
so give killers more time? that's exactly what they did in 6.1.0. with 90-second gens and basekit buffs and tunnelling got even worse. if gens take longer, you can afford to tunnel/camp someone to death and make the game a 3v1 and an easy win.
@@rubygarnet6220 Then they should just add another objective and remove gen perks, that would a. give killers more time to chase and b. extend the game naturally. At this point, killers wouldn't need to tunnel. As a result, the game would most likely be less sweaty and such. Another crucial flaw to making a chase meta a good option is map designs (like garden of joy) which are extremely unbalanced. If all maps are fixed to be way balanced, generators take longer overall but have another objective to keep objectives more fun, and killers have more time to chase? That would be the peak of this game, especially considering that chases are the most fun part of this game.
Expecting people to play a certain way is just a fools errand though.
im not expecting anything, i just find it more reasonable than continuing to wait 7 years for the devs to fix it
I mean, it’s either hope the devs fix it or do something yourself, as annoying that is
i refuse to drink this kool aid, scott. it’s not even blue raspberry flavoured. try again
Saying you can win consistently while doing zero form of tunneling and camping is like saying it's easy to get rich playing roulette.
Last time I checked, most people ain't millionaires. I don't get this notion where people think we need to make the game fun for the people we play against. Such a weird mindset to have and I'll never understand it.
If I'm playing a game where the end result is losing or winning, why would I ever care whether the opponent is having an enjoyable experience? That is up to them, not me.
0:43 But that's impossible, as smart a place as Reddit would never use strawman arguments... it can't be!!!
I must agree with the game being played at its absolute sweatiest is unfun. And I can say that is the case for every game, I feel we've been pushed a lot of high skill gameplay because it's entertaining to watch and could also inspire us to challenge ourselves to reach that point. I've played very high elo for League and Overwatch and can say I rarely had fun. I found myself playing bot games afterwards to decompress and just casually enjoy the game itself which showed me that going into every single game with the intention of dominating and climbing a ranked ladder can really take the fun and enjoyment out of a game. I do like to be competitive and play some sweaty games but it's easy to get burnt out on a game with that mindset.
Now that I have a 9-5 job in the bay area (as well as a 3 hour daily commute), I essentially have very little time to play games except for maybe an hour or so when I'm free that night. I regularly enjoy your content amongst Otz, Tofu, and a couple other but I haven't played dbd in about 3 months I'd say but I must say it's been more enjoyable watching you content creators bring fun videos and builds rather than playing myself.
This comment post kinda became a vent so my bad but anyways, great video Scott! Hope to catch your next stream :)
i feel that tunneling (and camping) wont go anywhere unless you remove the mechanic and impact of killing survivors. the game would have to change from getting kills to hooks. but i thought of a way taking aspects from competitive dbd to do this. you can make it a hook based point system, here's what i came up with that in mind:
-2 points for 1st hooks
-1 point for every other hook on the same survivor
-.5 point if hooks are back to back on the same survivor
-10 total hook points to end the game (as a placeholder value, would need to be tested)
2 points on fresh hooks to reward the killer for chasing everyone. to deincentivize tunneling you reward half a point (.5) instead of 1 point so a killer CAN tunnel but they're less rewarded for doing it so it'd take longer to reach their goal and since there's no death then the survivors can still play and help their team by distracting the killer. since survivors cant die new survivors wouldn't feel as bad starting out.
but there's a problem, not being able to kill survivors makes it very difficult for killer since you cant massively reduce their productivity. so there would need to be a debuff, maybe if a survivor is currently hooked the gens get slowed down till the survivor is unhooked (maybe 30%, something that's impactful enough to make survivors need to unhook their teammate but not broken. idk yet).
with these factors the bleedout and hook timer would be removed since survivors cant die, thus making camping worthless. unhooking yourself would still be on first hook and maybe if the unhook attempt fails maybe a debuff happens so there's a risk still ( 3 attempts only, slightly additional slower gens maybe until unhooked?). also maybe making it so that killers powers cant be used or deactived within 8 meters of a hook so hook trading isnt as easy (bubba obviously). but once the hook total is reached, all remaining survivors in the trial die. so if any survivor escapes they wont die if the total is reached. of course some perks would need a rework. of course this would be a massive shakeup to the game but i feel it's the best way to change how the game is currently played. i would love to hear any suggestions to this idea
This is really great for people who care about the game, but a lot of killers really just want the impact of seeing all four survivors dead, regardless of the impact it makes on matchmaking or the people they go against.
Also, not to be a dick or anything, but removing the hook timer is an absolutely terrible idea, because what you're doing at that point is you're removing all possible map pressure that the killer could ever hope to exert
@@n8with8s no worries. one of the mechanics i mentioned that i wanted to introduce, with removing timers when a survivor is on a hook, is having gen speed slowed down thus affecting all survivors. i wouldnt want a survivor on a hook if it would make gens take a lot longer. you can change that value from 30 to whatever feels right (maybe 40 percent slower gens or even 50 depending). you could include more debuffs as well. also if the hook total is reached then all survivors that are remaining would die. so that feeling of getting a 4k would still be possible.
days since dbd reddit hasn't been cringe: 0
the fact is that the same changes that were meant to give killers more time (90s gens, more and more gen regression perks, hit cooldown buffs...) so they dont feel as pressured to tunnel, actually now let them tunnel MORE efficiently
I couldn't agree more with all of your points here. you're completely right.
Ever since I began watching certain content creators (usually small time streamers who play blight or billy in the most cracked out ways possible), learning to be actually skillful has looked far more appealing to me than running 3+ slowdown, tunneling and camping.
If people wanna run those things to have a fair shot at doing decently, that's fine. Perfectly understandable. My personal issue with those overly strong strategies though is as you said: too many people believe that you must run 3+ slowdown, tunnel and/or camp in order to do well at all. It's so untrue and unfair. It's unfair to expect to win more than 60% of your matches, and yet people expect to win EVERY match.
I genuinely believe that, in order for everyone to have a good time, the community needs to take some of it into their own hands. As much as it is bhvr's responsibility to deal with this, I honestly don't see any realistic thing they can do to prevent tunneling and camping.
If people hope to have a killer or swf not sweat their brains out and BM, they shouldn't make that exception about themselves. While yes, t bagging, hitting on hook, hard camping and hard tunneling will always exist, it's about setting a better example and feeling good about yourself and what you do
Love watching your tideos man
Telling ppl that they have to play the game in a certain way is even more dickish than the whole tunneling and camping in the world combined.
Its a good thing I'm not doing that then
Between work, friends & family, anime etc. I play dbd pretty casually. I find myself having more fun trying to run into the killer and practice chase and it sucks being tunneled.
Basically Cru5h’s playstyle.
Hard to not be tunneled when you RUN into them on purpose lol. You're literally saying "daddy im special and need ALL of your attention. Give it TO ME NOW" lol
I don't understand this comment. You enjoy practicing chase and running into the killer, but think it sucks being chased by the killer (tunneled)?
If you play it casually, it doesn't make much sense why this would bother you. If you get tunneled, enjoy the chase that you're getting because of it, and move onto the next game if you die. Just my two cents.
Imo it isn't "the most realistic solution", mostly because it is impossible to get everybody to do the right thing willingly. It's like saying "oh yeah, we can fix pollution, we just need all of humanity to agree not to pollute at the same time" or "oh yeah, we can get rid of crime if we all just agree not to do it" and you can't, it's impossible and unrealistic
I'd love to see you do reviews of other streamers ideas for removing tunnelling
Get vile scott out of here I say, honestly would rather chill with Scott Blunt that guy's super cool