honestly, Tru3 would probably be the one who would shift the convo to Clown if that were true. Tru3 helped steer that convo with Wraith after his buffs, after all. Almo is the last person I would expect having that much of an influence on the community, or having the capacity to understand high-level play. not saying only Tru3 could do that. I believe streamers like Scott or Otz can have that same influence and knowledge. Scott has his thing about Spirit and counterplay, so.
Actual interaction that I've seen multiple times on his stream. Person: I don't think Spirit's counterplay is fun, interactive, or healthy for the game. Tru3: Yeah but what about god pallets? Why are god pallets okay but not spirit? See the double standards man? Don't get it. Person: Sends a counterargument Tru3: Ignores That person said NOTHING about god pallets, and Tru3, not even addressing that person's argument about Spirit, assumed that person's stance on god pallets and used that to immediately shut down the argument, while then going on to talk about how his argument gets derailed all of the time. I've seen this happen multiple times, and it makes me laugh every fucking time.
I think the biggest problem with the dropping every pallet is that it requires the spirit to continue to chase one survivor. If she wants to win, then she'll leave and push gens till there aren't any pallets left.
that doesnt make sense, the moment she leaves chase that survivor will hop on a gen as well, thats the whole point in competitive, so instead of chasing the 1 survivor youre just wasting time leaving him and walking to another survivor which is all gen progression
@@paybackkiller very good point, but I'm wondering if the pallets already being dropped would make up for the lost time of switching targets in the long run
I like going against her only when she doesn't leave me in chase. If she does then my team get surprised bc none of us know if she left chase before its too late. Its not fun and I'm sure for the killer it is but the fun for survivors comes from the chase
I mean most of the community is just bad at the game and the devs tend to listen to the majority even if they're bad at the game and have no idea what they're talking about. Kinda why the game is so unbalanced
I don't mind going against a spirit. I DO despise going against a spirit who is using Make your Choice and literally phases away from a hook and always, without fail, phases back to a hook the second someone is unhooked. I get that it's a strat, but my GOD it makes me angry.
@@jordann2879 I mean most killers have their BS. Facecamping LF, Blight can use MYC too. Nurse can use it as well. Idk, Spirit is definitely a strong killer but she's not OP
I mean, that's not an argument for the debate being pointless. It's an argument for Tru3 having no clue about anything in this topic. You can't "choose" what definition you're gonna use for a word. "You know what? Today I'm feeling cranky and I believe 2+2 = 13". There is a definition to "counter play", and I don't believe Tru3 understands what it means.
above it all the points made i hate the most is the 1v1 1v4 point. because everyone knows the game is a 1v4. however, the so called '1v1' shows how fast a killer can dispose a survivor with little resistance. so if a spirit could down someone in like 15 seconds with little *RESISTANCE*. that means shes going to do it to each survivor. the "1v1" is the chase each survivor gets into
@@maddog130 Exactly, the only killer where that wouldn't apply would be Hag, but the appart from her the entirety of the killers have to chase 1 survivor at a time, and that can be simulated by a 1v1
What dbd players define as counter play is 100 percent safety which is what u dont have against spirit against her u need to do more than that and make reads (which is a skill in every good pvp game) but dbd players dont count that as an skill and counterplay ( watch some mk11 grab "counter" videos u will get it)
@@kasraabolfathi6601 i dont think anyone defines counter play as 100% safety. It's something you can do in an attempt to gain the advantage that isnt just a flat out "is she phasing towards me, or just standing still? Will she make her way around towards me if she is phasing, or be waiting for me to vault?" Only for her to end up doing the opposite once she assesses the situation, such as starting to phase if you start running away guessing she was standing still. A pretty good example would be not cleansing against plague. Yes, you stay injured the whole game, but you avoid giving the plague her ranged attack (though now she always has at least one). It's not a coin flip. I can have an impact on the future of the match based on my decisions, not just a mere delay
@@itscrab9124 which if you saw tru3,s video he says he doesnt like that either where there is not showing of she is phasing or not and i agree thats bullshit but not her whole kit
No hate it's judt how i see things based on what i have seen from Tru3 over 3 years. But he doesn't seem like a very smart person who thinks things over very logically and tries to find the best answer, he is more emotional type who can't debate agains solid arguments. I also watched a ''debate'' conversation of Tru3 and Otz. It was obious who had the better, more logical arguments and foresight.
Tru3 says something and says he's up for logical debates Someone opens up a counter point/dialog Tru3 takes it as a personal attack and closes the dialog Repeat
"Tru3 takes it as a personal attack and closes the dialog" Im guessing you havent watched Scotts first video? Literally attacks on tru3. Also a tweet from Scott saying hes mocking the disabled after only doing a silly voice which all people do regularly.
Can we get an F in the chat for Tru literally shitting on the survivor that helps Scott with his 1v1 "Lets be honest he could have gotten a better survivor for this" Jesus H Christ that was tacky. Even if what he says is actually true, he could apply that statement to literally any video Tru is in "I could have gotten a Better Killer to play this" or "I could have gotten a better Survivor" Holy crap I just felt that was kinda cheap and lame right off the bat.
Who's even surprised anymore? Tru3 is basically only known for saying the densest shit imaginable at this stage and then bitching when people call him out.
I know Scott said no harassment in comments, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tru3ta1ent is an arrogant, ungracious winner and an incredibly sore loser who scapegoats the game for his poor choices/plays. I watched one of his recent streams and his commentary is just cringe: "You can't do that man, I'm too experienced" or "Nice try man but I read that easy". Barf
If I had a team mate that dropped a pallet every 10 to 20 seconds then I would be more upset about that teammate then playing against the spirit in the first place
@@BaraPersson Seems like you’re the one with excuses. OP is clearly drawing attention to the fact that this strategy wouldn’t work in a pub match, since the other teammates would be screwed over by someone burning through all the pallets in their chase. Not sure why you’re ignoring that fact to try and lecture them with a take that doesn’t at all apply to their comment.
@@nadiapflug1353 "hes wasting pallets" This happens in every match? There are so many pallets in the game that this usually doesnt matter. Also, the gens would be popping. You wont get perfect teammates every game anyways correct? I dont see the problem with dropping pallets because thats how u play vs spirit
"The 1v1 doesnt matter" If a killer was so good every chase lasted 5 seconds and they ignored pallets and windows (So basically if Nurse had exposed) then every match would be a complete stomp. Whereas if a killer has a chase that takes more than a minute, the game is over for them. Saying the 1v1 doesnt matter is so objectively false its actually baffling anyone could think thats the case.
Obviously it does matter but unless you are getting downs insanely quick then the 4v1 is more important, want proof? Because Scott may not realize it but he already defended Tru3’s point in his Micro vs Macro skill So have at it
Yeah, had a match we weren't doing so hot in against huntress with two gens left, but two of us managed to escape. My only teammate left had aftercare active on us and she got pushed off her gen. I noticed, because of aftercare, and popped her gen while she got chased and subsequently downed. I was going to get a flashlight save, but she flipped around and picked up so I chose not to blow my cover. She gets hooked for the first time and as I'm saving, huntress comes back. I had borrowed so I wasn't worried, but she was after me instead anyway. Now this teammate saw the OTHER gen that I was working on when she got pushed off her gen and immediately went that way while huntress chased me in the garage on Freddy's map. The pallet downstairs was still up and I managed to dodge three of her hatchets, greed the pallet and use the window right up the stairs to keep greeding. I could've done it longer but I didn't realize she was pulling a hatchet as a tossed the pallet. So I get hit and I choose to run out the door instead of the window (after two loops of doing this so she tried to mind game me by cutting me off, but I was leaving to go towards school). She finally realized and about the time I got into school my teammate popped my gen and was opening a door and I could SEE HER WITH AFTERCARE. So I made my way over ducking behind objects so she might lose sight of me, but she never did. She was out of hatchets and as I got to the door it opened and I was free. Tl;dr, my ability to greed that ONE pallet, combined with her aftercare, saved us. Without aftercare I wouldn't have known what gen she was working on if any and it would've never gotten finished. Without aftercare, she wouldn't have known about my gen either. Without aftercare I didn't know where the doors were and I would have surely died without that guidance.
the worst part of this is that it’s NOT drama, but the internet loves to turn things into drama. This is debating wether a character in a video game has counter play or not, not wether or not scott or tru3 fucked a minor or something. People have gotten way too comfortable with picking a “side” and fighting than just using their brains to listen and have discussions.
2 minutes into tru3's video he says "nice read" when the claud vaults the pallet. it's a total guess. claud has no way to know if you just stand still. it's not a read predicated based on prior information, it's a guess. reads are not guesses. maybe the argument should come down to this instead of counterplay which has become muddled.
not to mention the fact that scott said for the 1v1s he is not allowed to do the standing still bait and also told the survs he faced that he wont do that. which means it wasnt even a read it was just abusing the knowledge he cant do the bait
Actually, reads are in fact guesses. In fighting games a read is a gambit on if you think the opponent will do A or B. So I really don't see how this is different. However, I'm not really here to debate the video contents with people. I think this whole thing just comes down to opinions, and it's only going to change if there's a sit down discussion.
He did debate about it and they finally both agreed that spirit has counterplay. Scott just says it isnt a fun one. Which is completely subjective anyway
I disagree. Debates can usually just devolve into screaming matches or have one person become dominant in the conversation and not allowing the person to respond, particularly if one of the people are unable to pull up facts and data at the time. Not to mention energy and time and all that. I *could* debate but I don't have much energy and negative situations or anything that raises my anxiety will rapidly drain that time. I disagree that Spirit has counterplay but a debate isn't end all be all.
@@shotgunammo A counter that affects all killers the same due to map design flaws has no correlation with counter play to spirits kit if you remove that flaw there remains counterplay for all killers but Spirit.
Goddamn Scott had his finger on that hair trigger to reply so quick Jesus. Shit starting to get real when these fellas are posting youtube videos to respond to each other within the same hour.
Shit got real when Scotty here insinuated that Tru was insulting autistic people or whatever tf and engaged in a witch hunt because Tru didn't give him the reaction he wanted. The intro of this video is disingenuous af
I've watched both this video and tru3's video to see both sides. And while scott is being very respectful i just have to say tru3 is acting very passive aggressively in his video and it seems his ego is a bit bruised from prior discussions.
He's insulting both Scott and the survivor, mocking scott by endlessly calling him a "self-proclaimed amazing spirit" then proceeding to never let go of any of the mistakes Scott makes, while at the same time before the video even goes for 10 seconds he says they could've gotten a better survivor, implying that the skill of the survivor is unsatisfactory to be worth using as an example. All in the same video where he says something along the lines of all humans make mistakes. He's so unbelievably passive aggressive in the video that he just comes off as petty and egotistical.
@@lazypayday4476 He's a clown tbh, a literal pro player is 'unsatisfactory' and making fun of Scott constantly lmao. Honestly hard to watch him usually but this whole situation is embarrassing for him
@@lowaimnobrain Two things One I'm going to assume saying "small brain" was an attempt at an insult, I give it a c-. And two, where is Scott "Digging" at Tru? aside from the obvious fact that Scott disagrees with tru which is not within itself inherently insulting.
Honestly Scott, don't waste your time/energy/grey matter on this guy. It's easier to reason with a brick wall than him Nonetheless, I commend the effort.
@@virus3x2 I think the only counterplay all things being equal was to drop every pallet which they established was only effective in a tournament scenario. Even the survivor Scott’s chasing says this would never be effective in regular play much less solo queue
For real, it’s why I stopped watching Tru. The man can’t accept differing opinions or being wrong, this also applying to his gameplay where losing means he ran into a sweaty SWF or what have you.
He shits on his followers too and talks to them like there some sort of child when they have a different opinion 💀 🤣 I've seen it to many times already, and he's right because he has X amount of hours in the game therefore your wrong. He can't debate or talk I've seen otz vs tru3 debate and it was clear that he has issues. To bad to cause he is a good killer but he let's his skill and ego go over his head thinking that's enough to be right
@@whothehellarewe same, use to love watching tru3 but his ego just got out of absolute control a couple years ago and he's been painful to watch ever since. He talks about empathy and humility yet displays so little of either
After scrolling through Tru3's comment section for 2 minutes, I've decided to hang back from this community discussion; His whole fanbase is entirely condescending and snobbish, while accusing everyone else of being so; Just with their attitudes in having this community discussion, It's obvious many of them don't understand the difference of personal attacks meant to cause harm and objective statements meant to teach, that may also happen to be criticism for an individual (Tru3). I get people don't like to be criticized in any capacity, but just blowing off or even demonizing the criticizer to denounce the entire argument they presented? Yeah I'm good, so God speed Scott.
Because that is the truth. His ego is massive and he can’t take criticism. At the end of his video he says something like “am I the one in the wrong?” He states this but will just ignore it as he believes he is right and no one can change his mind. I don’t hate true or anything but recently I’ve been losing some respect for him as this debate has really brought out his ego.
Everything against tru and 100% disrespect to all of his opinions because he’s a delusional, pathetic, insecure man child that can’t accept criticism, others opinions or failure. Nothing that ever happens in a game is because he was outplayed. He’d rather bully, harass and disrespect others for respectfully disagreeing with him and offering him actual evidence. Idk how he’s even a fog whisperer as he and his rancid little equally delusional community is more toxic than people like Ochido ever were.
I find it somewhat ironic that Tru will vehemently disagree with topics like Spirit having no counterplay or SWF stuff, but not want to defend his own reasoning. It reminds me of his own gameplay videos and streams where he’ll routinely begin to complain if things don’t go his way, but if they do- hey, perfectly balanced.
I feel like people always forget that spirit isn't only strong because she can end 1v1s really quick but because she forces survivors to pre-drop every pallet, make them constantly change loops where they are forced to go to another loop and pre-drop a pallet and/or go near teammates, which then the spirit can choose to either pressure the gens, swap targets or continue the chase, the spirit is literally a win-win in everything. I feel like the only pallet which is ok vs spirit is the shack pallet.
Yes, but not every Spirit is going to be really good. Even if you use every pallet on the map by pre-dropping it, you can still avoid going down for a decent while just by how you move when she's phasing, and IW helps as well. You don't need to avoid going down for long, just long enough by everyone, and splitting on gens, and you'll prolly still win.
I think your on a good point in a random lobby against a spirit if your the second person to be chased your going down way faster because half the map doesn't have palates and the spirit knows where to chase you. If you're the last person being chased there is actually no counter play besides hatch.
Bubba can destroy all pallets faster, but he not strong as Spirit. Spirit strong because: 1) Strong chase ability with almost no counterplay 2) High mobility.
@@originalvox2530 Bubba doesn't force you to pre drop a pallet, you can still loop him in filler loops before dropping it. He destroys pallets faster, he doesn't get them down faster.
@@orlandored9608 he actually force you pre-drop pallet, because if Bubba close enough, charge chainsaw, you be greedy and not drop pallet premature, he just insta-down you. I catch so many survivors with chainsaw just because they be greedy and committed to run one more circle withnout pallet-drop.
Imagine being a goalkeeper and you're about to try and save a penalty, you're looking at the penalty taker and then all of a sudden they're appear in front of the ball and are kicking it at goal and somehow you have to make the save. The majority of the time that ball is going into the back of the net, sometimes you'll save it, the times you save it wasn't skill, it was luck, which is how I feel playing against the spirit is like.
My man sry but what scotts video did was literally like if 2pac said sry to east coast and biggie before hit em up u cant say keep it civil then insult someone and excpect them to not get mad
The wording seems to be very important. Let's all say "counterplay to Phase Walk in a chase". I feel like this precisely describes what Scott is addressing. On the other hand there is "counterplay to Spirit in a match", which basically includes all the hooking, gen speeds, tunneling, perks, etc.
@Scarlet7Fever {Ade} I think that’s their point. Saying “Spirit has counterplay in the chase” is much different than “Spirit has counterplay in the match,” both of which are context sensitive in regards to all players involved. If we’re talking non-competitive, it’s counterplay in chase, since literally nobody is gonna do Gens since the Survivors spend more time crying about their problems than they do actually attempting to play the game. So because of that, just counterplay her in chase so you get blood points, then suicide on hook if less than 3 Gens were done. If we’re talking in competitive, absolutely it’s counterplay in match, since you know by the time you go down, the match is probably almost over. Even if you die, competitive scores team on team, so as long as your survivors are better than their survivors, you win. So yeah, she has counterplay, but it’s depth is like an empty glass: flavorless and unsatisfying.
@Scarlet7Fever {Ade} Omg, you didn't get the differentiation between counterplay in a chase and counterplay in the Match, did you? There are super many perks, which is good counterplay (match) against all the killers. Prove Thyself, Exhaustion perks, BT, DS, ... Edit: 5% of the community? Wow, that's a super bad estimation. I would say far less than 0.1% and even that is probably far off.
@@verrenos5825 Hmm, imo there is no counterplay to Phase Walk in chases in neither competitive nor non-competetive. The only counterplay is (which works against every killer) to drop all pallets instantly and rush gens. This definitely works in competitive and in non-competetive, if either the survivor team is a swf or the Spirit player is mediocre.
Yup, thing is she has both of those types of counterplay. Only thing you could argue is there is no counterplay,while injured against a spirit using stridor, while you do not have iron will and while she is phasing. That I might accept, though there are still things you can do to increase your chances (admittedly often not by much).
He can say whatever he wants but when he says it with arrogance and trying to belittle others just to protect his own ego and "talented" player image then its his own fault
I will say I think something i saw in a glitch gave me an idea but how about when the spirit phases you see her initial 2 seconds of movement is seen as normal but after wards she goes invisible this gives some level of counter play for both sides the spirit can double back from the initial movement or even keep going the same direction. The survivors are able to see when she phases and will be able to make their choices from that information
Every streamer has their own horde of sycophants - but man you kicked a hornet's nest by challenging Tru3. His supporters are next level kool-aid drinkers. I think only Pug's are quicker to snap out.
@@smokeycyrus7755 the difference between Scott and tru3 is that Scott brings up debates about general game balance, whereas tru3 abuses over powered things in the game without hesitation (which I have nothing wrong with, I use meta perks 80% of the time) but then complains when people do it on the other side. No person who plays both sides will agree with tru3 because is ridiculously biased.
@FlashlightAbuse Scott is agreeing with Tru3 on the factuality of the subject. But he's doing it in confrontational, public manner...a way which aligns him with the mass opinion (regarding the fun aspect, not actual subject material)...as he soaks in views and dollars. He's largely just using Tru3's personality flaws for profit.
I still think there should be a passive phase whilst phasing, like every second and a half or less, Spirit will phase back in revealing herself to the survivor whilst also being able to see the survivor as well for maybe say half a second, leading to more visual counterplay for both roles and giving more necessary info to make the chase less luck based and more about reading and predicting the player.
Do you have an email I can send clips to? I have footage that genuinely proves spawns are broken. Me and two other survivors spawn directly in front of eachother next to a gen
@@AirComma And if you spawned separately you could have had two gens done by the time he downed the third guy, who probably had half of his gen done by the time he was chased. Survivors splitting up is always worse for the killer then them starting together. That problem you're detailing with getting the gen done before he could arrive isn't due to spawns, it's due to maps being too big.
Cherry picking evidence to support your claim but ignoring anything that goes against it has always grounded my gears. People would think they’ve won an argument against you just because they’ve decided it’s won
@@shotgunammo Scott admitted that he had changed his perception of there being absolutely no counter play. But in fact the counter play is to drop every pallet within 10 seconds this screwing the rest of your team for later
@@TheShakenCondor thats absutelt not what he said. That's what you got out of it. There's no such thing as screwing over your team and he also never even mentioned the word 10 seconds NOR every pallet. It was a normal loop run where a pallet gets skipped where windows are used etc.
I just played against one that camped all game and had NOED. When the NOED popped up I just grabbed my phone and browsed reddit till the match was over. Worst designed killer in the game.
He has been clout chasing a lot recently. First the stuff with Otz and now this he seems to just say something really stupid about the games balance or how it should be changed, and he gets lots of attention for it from other creators and the community because he's been a huge part of it for such a long time. He seems to want to give a lot of "this is why I think something but you won't understand why I think it so I won't bother telling you" because at the end of the day, they're bad takes. For example the "12 hooks is a win for killer, not a 4k" idea is flawed massively because it means that even if the survivors lose, the killer does as well. If the survivors decide to do so many things because the killer is playing so well, the killer is then punished for it, meaning that the game wants to punish good play which is probably the worst thing you can do in any competitive game, after all who wold want to improve in a game where you lose more as a result. This then means that the game is entirely based on the survivors and how A) well they play B) polite they want to be C) the game is balanced because if it's more survivor favoured then the survivors have more opportunity to decide if the killer wins or loses. All in all he seems to make incredibly bad points supported by little evidence, but the DBD community eats it up as drama and screams at one side or the other, therefore bringing attention to the situation, which means more attention to their channels etc etc. Basically, it's probably a money grab because I think that simply put no sane person can make these arguments and be stubborn and ignorant enough to think he is completely 100% correct when no one agrees with him and he is presented with hundreds of counter claims that are very logically sound. He has to be doing it for the clout.
So from what I'm understanding here based on both perspectives and Hiron's perspective, Spirit has counterplay in competitive scrims and the like, but it doesn't apply to pub matches. Did I get that right?
yes, at least thats how i understood it as well, in a comp environment you can "stall" long enough to win but in pubs if you did this like 2 gens would be done then everyone dies
Yeah. Because the "counter play" is drop every pallet you get to and then force the spirit to guess which side you will end up on after the phase. In a regular match dropping so many pallets so quickly will screw over the team. In the competitive scene they need to hope spirit guesses wrong enough times for the team to get the gens done.
No. She bas counterplay because you as a survivor have control when to put her in a counterplay mode. It's just not 'fun' for most people to have to guess so they fill their own heads with lies like >she has no counterplay. Well scott admitted that she does have counterplay after having his eyes opened. He just doesnt think its fun counterplay.
@@shotgunammo I wouldn't call a 50/50 chance counter play no matter how much you delay the game, it's like saying the best way to get money is doing coin tosses. That's just my opinion though.
so if I'm understanding this right, the argument now boils down to whether or not pre-dropping every pallet you get too is acceptable counter for regular matches, cause on one hand it could work but on the other you'll probably make half the map a dead zone(god forbid you get a shit autohaven) for 3 gens then everyone starts going down like flies because of said dead zone not to mention possible giving them a 3 gen in said dead zone.
Yes and no, pre dropping pallets is a counterplay, or sort of a band-aid to the situation, it still results in rng based decision after the pallets are being dropped, which isn't counterplay
That's because his fans kiss his ass and he thinks he's awesome at the game because of the echo chamber his fans cause. He was wrong in the debate with Otz. He's wrong about the debate with Scott. He just likes to complain and whine when a match goes bad.
Ok iam just gonna ask this flat out : what is this ,,Scott tried to cancel Tru3talen on twitter,, thing I keep hearing about, I tried to look it up myself but only found a rather heated debate over slander from 2019 where I couldnt find anything like whats claimed here. Can anyone send my a link to the post that everyone but me seems to be aware of?
So I watched it all and you’re saying it’s only counterplay if the team is good and does gens? I don’t think any type of counter play helps if your team is potatoes and just urban evades all game.
Spirit is the easier version of nurse for killers to play, but is arguably harder for survivors to play against than nurse (unless they are one of the best nurse players). When I was rank 12 as killer and almost no perks (besides the default & spirit’s perks), I beat a team of almost full red ranks. If I had any other killer I probably wouldn’t have gotten a down at all that game. Seems kind of unbalanced tbh & Ive played way better spirits than in this video because they track you and move at speeds much quicker with better add ons. Also, you can’t use pallets nonstop in games, like in this example, because you have 3 other teammates that need them and using them to block the spirit from getting you just equals faster downs later.
man, i have a friend that don't even play killer, he plays just survivor with me sometimes, i let him play on my account one match with spirit at rank 1 and the dude 4ked
@@shotgunammo Is blight invisible when he rushes? No, he is able to be looped and countered through running loops in a unique way when playing him. If survivors don’t know how to loop him then they arent that experienced, but he is not even close to spirit in terms of lacking clear counter play.
Lets be clear though, saying now that all you and everyone else has been talking about is that the counter-play to her just "isnt fun", is being a little disingenuous also. The argument has always been that she has "no counter-play" vs "she does" period. If you guys want to change the argument you can now, but to retroactively say now that you meant something else is nothing but disingenuous.
@@ScottJund right, you adjusted your argument weeks ago to suit the current situation, but the argument that has been ongoing and what this is stemmed from is from over a year ago when that was not part of the argument. What im word for word saying is that it is disingenuous to act like that is what the argument has been the whole time which is how you present it in the video.
after watching it a second time, maybe i am misconstruing what you are trying to say. I do still however feel that what is happening between you guys is much less an argument and more a stand off of egos,. Take that how you want, but we all have egos and dont want to be wrong. It is kind of apparent to me that is what is going on here. You guys dont really like each other for whatever reason and I dont really care why. Im only a casual fan of both of you and have been commenting to him the same type of things. I see alot of twisting things and adjusting the argument to make it favor yourselves both ways, which just doesnt lead to anything except more arguing.
@@adeptgopnik I don't know how you could possibly think tru3 is not incredibly biased towards the killer side, scott, otz and dowsey are all way more concerned about proper balance for both sides - tru3 just cares about killers being stronger hence why you will never hear him say that a killer potentially needs nerfs.
Have you ever seen when playing as spirit one survivor kind of swap out for a survivor that ur chasing by leaving a trail near the injured survivor while the original survivor will walk into a nearby corner or something. I’ve seen it a few times and this might be considered valid counterplay
@@RaffoPhantom aye so there is somewhat of a valid counterplay but only if you are on voice coms and extremely coordinated. which shouldn’t be necessary
this whole discussion would be so much easier iif true understood that most people care more about the fun aspect than anything, pre dropping every pallet may be a counter play to spirit but that is just ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ
Yes but not only that. The guy in the 1v1 could pre drop pallets because he was alone but if they were playing a 4v1 the spirit could just change targets while the other guy waste a pallet thinking the spirit was still chasing him
It may be silly but at this point I feel you should make a video just on defining practical examples of counterplay in dbd. It seems there's a lot of people confused as to what that really means, if they end up considering basically throwing the match as such.
Been watching tru3 for about 3 years, and hes basically been my main source of dbd content. Learned the game from him and all, but I gotta side with Scott here. True isn't handling the situation/debate very well by accusing Scott of doing this for money and attention, claiming Scott is manipulative and sent a mob after him (he didn't, the internet just went after him, twisting what was said and blamed Scott for it, playing victim). He was dismissive and being kinda rude to Hiron, the person whos perspective he used for his video, after finding out he didn't agree with his opinion either, only to conveniently get an Oracle player that agreed with him to support his argument. This whole situation has definitely shown a different, kinda ugly side to tru3 imo
One of the few people that have nailed it with the analysis on the situation, especially the whole twitter thing - props to you, I've been saying the same thing.
I think it all comes down to perspective. One views the game as a 1v4, and the other views it as a 1v1. They're honestly both valuable opinions, but I think it just boils down to fun, and most of the players who play this game, lets be honest, are heavy casual players. I don't enjoy going against spirit in a competitive setting, but I do sometimes like going against her in a casual game. Everyone has different opinions and ways they like to play and view the game, but I don't think drama should be spread through this argument. Props for keeping it civil, but what we really need to do is start a movement to remove deathslinger from the game and add back insta blind flashlights to make the game a lot more healthy and balanced.
He didn't keep it civil sadly. At first I thought the same, but he tweeted so much crap directed towards Tru3. And he still does, as if he was obsessed with him. His girlfriend came up with the "Tru3 mocking disabled people" stuff which resulted in dozens of people coming into the stream to insult him etc. I can't blame Tru3 for not wanting to deal with his stuff. Edgaralanbro said Tru3 should drink Acid and die (no idea if directly or just in a group with his friends). Not to mention the shittalking from his streamer friends like Morf and how the mods in chat just continued. They spread so much toxicity, I'm actually speechless of what is going on. I hope you look into this one, dig a bit more. You will notice that Scott is just acting like a friendly person who wants a normal discussion
@@flevami OR, other people create drama where there is none .. ever consider that? yes scott is passionate about debates, but he is not responsible for what people create from these debates - twitter especially is an incredibly toxic place it's not a dbd only thing. Stop holding scott responsible for whatever people choose to say regarding tru3, A LOT of people dislike tru3 WAY before this debate ever happened. This is the world we live in, doesn't mean scott should limit his opinions just because others blow it out of proportion - for drama to exist there needs to be people that feed into it and many times makes it bigger than what it is. Tru3 also handles it bad in the sense that he is not open to debates and takes it personal, if he would be less emotional about it I guarantee you nobody would be making such a big deal out of it. The reason you are even making this comment is because tru3 acts like some victim over conflicting opinions, he essentially creates drama by being dramatic and condescending about it.
@@CrimsonHeart3 The reason I created my comment in the first place is because I can't stand people who tell others to die or spread misinformation about the said person. I know Scott isn't responsible for those things, but one of the people was his girlfriend and he knew about what she said and didn't do anything. I don't want to say Tru3 is a victim since I agree that it's his fault as well. But nobody deserves what people did in this scenario and since it's Scott friends, it's normal that he is hold accountable for it as well. He also acted way more personal on Twitter than he said he would be in his youtube videos. In the end it doesn't matter anymore because I honestly believe this isn't about the two anymore. I'm actually just sick about the toxicity in this community and sadly it's Scotts friends who spread a lot of it.
@@flevami I honestly don't want to choose sides on this, because I don't know the full drama and I don't want to. I just wanted to give my take on the spirit counter argument. Regardless of your opinion on Scott, he's publicly said he doesn't want hate on either side. Just keep your opinion to yourself, and let them deal with the drama personally. Attacking him just results in someone else defending him with hate on the other person, it's a lose/lose situation.
For those who don't know you can see the spirit phased on pallets with windows of opportunity not sure about breakables or windows though if anyone knows feel free to add in.
@@RaffoPhantom okay so when window of opportunity highlights pallets windows and breakables when a spirit is phase form you can see her through the highlighted pallets. Get it?
I can sense a new 69 episode long anime arch where scott and tru3 are mortal enemies and its unsure whether the end is survival of the fittest or about the friends they made along the way.
I think this whole discussion is getting tired and is going nowhere. At the end of the day everyone can agree Spirit is a strong killer and that playing against her is difficult, but not impossible. Not to mention that counterplaying her is reliant on many factors, including perks, add-ons, the individual skill of each player, etc. Toxic fans on either side are always going to believe they are correct, and will always attack people that disagree with them. I say just leave the whole debate alone tbh, there’s just no point.
There is a point. If someone responds to you with a poor argument, even if it isn't cordial and is tiresome, truth is being arrived at regardless. There wasn't a good counterpoint to Scott, we learned there isn't any instant btfo argument as to why spirit has any counterplay. In fact the arguments for it are quite flimsy
I'm enjoying these debates between the DBD content creators on the game. I would love to see Tru3 and Scott get together and do a live debate just like Tru3 did with Otz. Hell, it would be interesting to see all three of them (or more content creators if it could happen) discussing DBD together. To start I think it would be an amazing idea because it would provide entertaining content, but more importantly it would expose each other's communities to different views and perspectives on the game (which is good for combating the hive mind). I feel like a lot of people (including myself) could learn a thing or two from watching content creators discuss their opinions on the game.
I like the idea, I've seen it for another game I play (Escape from Tarkov), where many different streamers who all have a lot of experience with the game talk about issues and ways to make them less of a problem.
5:03 I do think you are coming from an odd place here. Unless you're a meme squad, you're playing competitively and are doing everything you can to not get downed or hit unless you don't want to give up a god pallet. Saying that people don't stop running and try to walk around to confuse Spirit's or other similar tactics is just nonsensical and a lie. You are a good survivor and you try to out think the killer, and vice versa. My understanding was Tru3 was saying it's a 1 v 1 and the survivor was wasting time, imagine if there were other players working on gens. However, I stopped playing last year and I definitely felt like going against a Spirit was worse than going against a Nurse, so while I think he makes a good argument that there is counterplay, it's hard to maintain that level of focus across multiple games and God only knows what level your other teammates are at. So maybe that is the point you are saying, where this only works in competitive. Interesting.
The problem with True is that he will NEVER admit he's wrong. He also never compliments survivors/killers when he plays against them, just constant complaining.
What are you talking about when a player makes a good move he says “oh nice” or if he knows he made a bad play he reflects on it do you even watch his videos
Respectfully, if you actually watched any of his streams, he does compliment his opponents. Does he complain a lot? Sure, we can say that. Is he arrogant? Sure, we can say that too. Does he only compliment them when they do something that HE is more likely to do in game? Absolutely. But he does compliment them :)
I'd like to see more videos of yourself addressing Tru3's numerous takes. For example, Ruin and Pop should be in the base game and how Wraith is a top 4 killer (even before these latest changes to him.)
This entire debate is an absolute mess, both communities are being overly stupid to each other and I really don’t think anyone with 30 IQ cares who is right or wrong. Its best to just give up scott, its not worth the time/energy
@@Obsolete386 I like it. We should also give the killer bottles to slow down survivors, and call him “The Clown” or something like that. Sounds like a good name
I think what they should do is remove the terror radius of the husk when she phase. When you hear the phasing sound your given an idea she phasing. But while your in her husk terror radius it takes away the only indication of her phasing which is the problem. So removing it makes it so the stand still mind games cannot work and survivor can have an indicator now. Also I think there should be a change between the interaction between iron will and strider not sure what they would do though
Idc if they change her power I just want a way to tell if she’s phasing. For example you can tell a nurse is blinking cause of the screech. Something like that would still make spirit fun to play and slightly less boring to go against.
I think you and True should have a proper structured debate. Maybe have Otz be the moderator. And you can both debate civilly each side because honestly it would be very interesting to see that since you both have such polarizing opinions on a lot of stuff and I think seeing you two debate and try and see what you also agree on would be insightful and fascinating.
Wasn’t your whole argument that spirit has no counter play whatsoever? I don’t think you ever mentioned how you were talking about how not fun is. Now, you’re essentially describing spirit counter play the way you were describing clown counterplay, which is that it’s boring and mindless. I don’t think you were talking about spirits counterplay in that manner before unless Im mistaken
pretty sure thats true of all his viewers. I didn't know how bad he was until I discovered other dbd youtubers and realized how much he whined and complained about pretty much everything
Why cant you see spirit??? I thought that was wraiths thing? Just make her blurry but fast when shifting and that fixes the character. You can now somewhat fight against her.
Hey Scott, is there any chance I could get a shot at the Spirit Challenge? I typically run off meta builds and don't usually have an issue with Spirit, and the videos you've posted haven't shown a Survivor attempting to juke the Spirit how I usually do. If not, I understand, you said you didn't want to do this 100 times and you've got to be getting pretty close to it now
I feel all killers have counter play. Spirit add ons just make her too strong. Like she feels like a cheap and easy Nurse. But nurse doesn't need add ons for her best performance. Of course mother daughter ring makes spirits the best killer arguable. But really I feel it is clear solo survivor queue is the weakest. But also swf and killer match making is upsetting. When I see four rank 1s and I'm rank 9 it kinda sucks. This game is complicated and I just want everyone to get along. Or at least everyone's community doesn't start being mean.
I want you to watch this clip as far as spirit counterplay goes, not to ask you to pick a side. Just to see your opinion on the matter clips.twitch.tv/EsteemedSingleHedgehogBloodTrail. Here is a similar version to the previous clip, Check out this clip! XenoDBD streaming Dead by Daylight! clips.twitch.tv/AnimatedCoyMinkMcaT-wVC7usWv14vjmAB9 These clips are intertwined and should be both watched.
True's confidence is slowly changing into arrogance.. only showing his good games, playing bad equals SWF. I once destroyed him with nurse and he didn't even upload the video because I was "streamsniping" which I wasn't. It's only counter play when it works for him and when it doesn't work he doesn't upload it. It's seems to be hard for True to acknowledge mistakes or getting outplayed
That's one of the reasons why I don't like Tru3Talent. To my mind he's a narcissist who can not take criticism or can not admit himself when he played shitty à la "I didn't played shitty, the other Players just were Tournament-Pro's". He really has to come down from the high horse. I think the real reason why he doesn't do the Challenge is because he's scared to blame himself cause he's obviously not too convinced of his opinion.
It is clear that both Scott and Tru3 are discussing different points (Tru3 argues that Spirit can be beaten and Scott argues that is unfun because you don't beat her with any specific skills other than gen-rushing). Scott, while agree with your core idea, in this video you say that 1v1 is a good representation for your argument because it's about how much you can do with your skills as a single survivor. Later, you agree to the fact that preventively dropping pallets is a good tactic if you can rely on your team doing all gens fast. However, imo, one point that is missed there is that if this happens in a real match and you are running all over the place dropping pallets, you will pass by nearby survivors that are doing gens, and the Spirit can decide to go for them to catch them off guard, and then they might run towards an area that is now turned into a dead zone, meaning they could go down fast (and gens could start regressing by ruin or soon popped with PGTW). Showing that you can run the Spirit for 1 minute at the beginning of the match is not a good measure to conclude that it is good counterplay. How many chases like that will you need to finish 5 gens? and keeping in mind that each subsequent chase will be harder than the previous one due to the lack of resources, and when somebody goes down there are a myriad of consequences depending on the strategy of the killer and the perks that they are using.
Let's be honest Tru3 will never do the Spirit 1v1 with you bc then it would show how trash his arguments are 😂 But I also love how he doesn't show the chases where the player did badly, and uses a top level player as an example of why she has ""counterplay"" (guesses)
Tru3talent's argument usually doesn't stagger as much as it has recently on a lot of debates. He's contending that "guessing" is considered counterplay. I mean if we're putting guessing as counterplay, then this debate is void as a whole. The 1v1 happens, but what killer chases a survivor for 50 seconds. They chase, inevitably runs into someone more in a bad decision, gets a down, then the game goes into a whirlpool. This is getting more and more silly as the days go on
@@hatboy7146 lie? He's literally said what I've stated in the comments a multitude of times during streams and even a couple of videos. And when someone like myself gives a counter argument to what he literally has said, himself and his fans say we're switching the narrative or lying. We're literally saying what he's saying is wrong and why its wrong. And yall are coming back to us by insulting us or saying we're wrong with nothing to back it up. Please sir or ma'am. Explain how I'm lying and then tell me his true point of view. I would like to hear what you believe is truth on this matter in a civil way for once
@@Nolandiscool He's expressly said that making reads is counterplay, and not guessing. You're free to not see a difference, but to act like Tru3 is presenting them as the same is a lie. I don't understand why you're getting so emotional?
@@hatboy7146 two things. First you and tru3 as well misunderstand what you're arguing then. You're not reading the spirit. Its improbable and almost impossible to read something you can't see or hear where they're coming from. You are making a guess. A 50/50 guess. Not a read. When you name a guess, a "read", you can understand why people will say you are wrong. Second, when you as closing statement say im getting emotional, all it shows is that you have no follow up. If you have nothing logical to add, don't try to assume and insult. It doesn't help you at all my friend lol
@@Nolandiscool Tru3 has said that its bullshit that you can't hear her phasing. And I haven't insulted at all, which is why its silly that you're getting emotional. All I said is that you're misrepresenting Tru3, and you are.
Hmm do you think tru3 should be posting videos that prove the opposite of his point? Because that is basically what you suggested. Of coarse he's going to share the parts that prove his point. Everyone does. He's of course going to find evidence that displays his argument. I don't even know what on earth you are rambling on about that for
@@monkymann5834 that's why I added the Meg's biggest downfall, a flashlight.... the compulsion to make a clicking noise and to blind the killer is unstoppable 🤣
it is harder in a 1v4 when you have chances to run into multiple survivors during a chase meaning added pressure. however against good survivors you can lead you away with bond but seeing as how no one uses bond well... odds are youll get more pallets than necessary out of a1v1 and a stronger late game
Игры
This is never gonna end unless Almo shows us that Clown is actually secretly a beast and the conversation shifts to him
clown op no counter gotta predrop pallets like you do against spirit, Almo was right all along!!! yellow bottles were icing on the cake /s
Title: CLOWN IS THE NEW SPIRIT!?!?! why clowns feet are meta breaking (Video Documentary)
it feels like 3 years old fighting in Kindergarden at this Point.
Wdym, clown is the best killer in the game, his yellow piss bottle is the most op thing they added in the game so far
honestly, Tru3 would probably be the one who would shift the convo to Clown if that were true. Tru3 helped steer that convo with Wraith after his buffs, after all. Almo is the last person I would expect having that much of an influence on the community, or having the capacity to understand high-level play.
not saying only Tru3 could do that. I believe streamers like Scott or Otz can have that same influence and knowledge. Scott has his thing about Spirit and counterplay, so.
Mom and dad have been fighting for a few weeks now, I'm gonna go stay at Uncle Otz's place for a bit until this all blows over.
This assumes that either Scott or True is brothers with a robot...
@@therhymingturtle5577 i mean, maybe he’s talking about otz, not that demon/robot/man/woman/thing?/ that is not otz
"Trust me little timmy the divorce was entirely your fault"
Otz is literally worse than all! The dude is soooo fake
@@HockeyFan102 I'll need to hear your logic on that one, not sure how Otz could come across as fake.
BHVR: “Eleven pallets a second? Say no more”
Gideon be like
BHRV: "Eleven pallets a second? Holly cow thats way too many pallets a second, dont worry i have the perfect solution"
Nerfs Twins*
And I am both of them.
I am also both of them
@@Samir9568 ew go rent a room you lovebirds
The real counterplay is the friends we made along the way
:)
Nope, he wants to nerf survive with friends too remember
best comment
Ayy, nice avatar.
@@TVenicci Time to mix drinks and change lives
"No you're wrong Spirit has counter play"
*refuses to elaborate*
ikr yet he says elaborate how she doesnt have counterplay and just ignores it when people explain it
@@WelcometotheNHK. "no you dont understand you see my opinion good your opinion bad, thank you for having this debate with me."
Actual interaction that I've seen multiple times on his stream.
Person: I don't think Spirit's counterplay is fun, interactive, or healthy for the game.
Tru3: Yeah but what about god pallets? Why are god pallets okay but not spirit? See the double standards man? Don't get it.
Person: Sends a counterargument
Tru3: Ignores
That person said NOTHING about god pallets, and Tru3, not even addressing that person's argument about Spirit, assumed that person's stance on god pallets and used that to immediately shut down the argument, while then going on to talk about how his argument gets derailed all of the time. I've seen this happen multiple times, and it makes me laugh every fucking time.
@@Daddix0 Jesus, Christ...
@@Daddix0 That's just textbook whataboutism is it not?
I think the biggest problem with the dropping every pallet is that it requires the spirit to continue to chase one survivor. If she wants to win, then she'll leave and push gens till there aren't any pallets left.
Yeah you could drop every pallet but if she leaves you then you would have dropped 2-3 pallets for a total of 45 seconds chase it’s a stupid point
that doesnt make sense, the moment she leaves chase that survivor will hop on a gen as well, thats the whole point in competitive, so instead of chasing the 1 survivor youre just wasting time leaving him and walking to another survivor which is all gen progression
@@paybackkiller very good point, but I'm wondering if the pallets already being dropped would make up for the lost time of switching targets in the long run
@@Glennjamyyyn wouldnt with spirit. Dropped or not dropped, they still have to guess which way you are
She cant break all the pallets in the time it takes a good team to do gens. It's not physically possible
I feel like it's been debated to death if Spirit has counterplay or not when most of the community seems to agree she's bullshit to play vs.
I like going against her only when she doesn't leave me in chase. If she does then my team get surprised bc none of us know if she left chase before its too late. Its not fun and I'm sure for the killer it is but the fun for survivors comes from the chase
I mean most of the community is just bad at the game and the devs tend to listen to the majority even if they're bad at the game and have no idea what they're talking about. Kinda why the game is so unbalanced
I don't mind going against a spirit. I DO despise going against a spirit who is using Make your Choice and literally phases away from a hook and always, without fail, phases back to a hook the second someone is unhooked. I get that it's a strat, but my GOD it makes me angry.
I feel the same against deathslinger with monitor. Its so good if he is on a good map
@@jordann2879 I mean most killers have their BS. Facecamping LF, Blight can use MYC too. Nurse can use it as well. Idk, Spirit is definitely a strong killer but she's not OP
This debate is pointless, it's just semantics at this point. The two parties don't even have the same definition of "counterplay."
I hate when stuff like this happens.
I mean, that's not an argument for the debate being pointless. It's an argument for Tru3 having no clue about anything in this topic. You can't "choose" what definition you're gonna use for a word. "You know what? Today I'm feeling cranky and I believe 2+2 = 13".
There is a definition to "counter play", and I don't believe Tru3 understands what it means.
above it all the points made i hate the most is the 1v1 1v4 point. because everyone knows the game is a 1v4. however, the so called '1v1' shows how fast a killer can dispose a survivor with little resistance. so if a spirit could down someone in like 15 seconds with little *RESISTANCE*. that means shes going to do it to each survivor. the "1v1" is the chase each survivor gets into
@@maddog130 Exactly, the only killer where that wouldn't apply would be Hag, but the appart from her the entirety of the killers have to chase 1 survivor at a time, and that can be simulated by a 1v1
Its like the debate of did the gun kill or the bullet or the person,all answers can be correct
Spirit has counterplay
"Define counterplay"
No
Tru3talent, 2021
iron will
and thats about it
What dbd players define as counter play is 100 percent safety which is what u dont have against spirit against her u need to do more than that and make reads (which is a skill in every good pvp game) but dbd players dont count that as an skill and counterplay ( watch some mk11 grab "counter" videos u will get it)
Who is that Notalent?
Who gives him permission to mock a guy when he is disagree with him?
Who is he to punish people for playing with friends?
@@kasraabolfathi6601 i dont think anyone defines counter play as 100% safety. It's something you can do in an attempt to gain the advantage that isnt just a flat out "is she phasing towards me, or just standing still? Will she make her way around towards me if she is phasing, or be waiting for me to vault?" Only for her to end up doing the opposite once she assesses the situation, such as starting to phase if you start running away guessing she was standing still. A pretty good example would be not cleansing against plague. Yes, you stay injured the whole game, but you avoid giving the plague her ranged attack (though now she always has at least one). It's not a coin flip. I can have an impact on the future of the match based on my decisions, not just a mere delay
@@itscrab9124 which if you saw tru3,s video he says he doesnt like that either where there is not showing of she is phasing or not and i agree thats bullshit but not her whole kit
I would suggest you two just get into a live debate and a custom lobby in dbd as well, so you can actively discuss and play alongside
The offer was given by Scott, and Tru didn't take it. He chose to make a YT comment and then make his "response" video.
@@kamikazeraider Are you serious
No hate it's judt how i see things based on what i have seen from Tru3 over 3 years. But he doesn't seem like a very smart person who thinks things over very logically and tries to find the best answer, he is more emotional type who can't debate agains solid arguments. I also watched a ''debate'' conversation of Tru3 and Otz. It was obious who had the better, more logical arguments and foresight.
I've literally wanted that for a week
@@corg5089 Not only am I serious, I'm also correct.
Tru3 says something and says he's up for logical debates
Someone opens up a counter point/dialog
Tru3 takes it as a personal attack and closes the dialog
Repeat
it's almost like it's a pattern for him
"Tru3 takes it as a personal attack and closes the dialog" Im guessing you havent watched Scotts first video? Literally attacks on tru3. Also a tweet from Scott saying hes mocking the disabled after only doing a silly voice which all people do regularly.
@@BaraPersson you must not have any reading comprehension if you think Scott said he mocked disabled people, lmfao
Dudes got some sorta personality disorder
@@xandervale Thats literally what he said in a tweet.
Fastest rebuttal in the west
Can we get an F in the chat for Tru literally shitting on the survivor that helps Scott with his 1v1 "Lets be honest he could have gotten a better survivor for this" Jesus H Christ that was tacky. Even if what he says is actually true, he could apply that statement to literally any video Tru is in "I could have gotten a Better Killer to play this" or "I could have gotten a better Survivor" Holy crap I just felt that was kinda cheap and lame right off the bat.
Who's even surprised anymore? Tru3 is basically only known for saying the densest shit imaginable at this stage and then bitching when people call him out.
He said that? Man I wish I could not watch him even more. But 0h a year has to do it
Hiron is a comp player on a pretty good team lmfao
@@sameplayer5220 I'm not defending True at all, but to think games are only intended for teens is just dumb.
I know Scott said no harassment in comments, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tru3ta1ent is an arrogant, ungracious winner and an incredibly sore loser who scapegoats the game for his poor choices/plays. I watched one of his recent streams and his commentary is just cringe: "You can't do that man, I'm too experienced" or "Nice try man but I read that easy". Barf
If I had a team mate that dropped a pallet every 10 to 20 seconds then I would be more upset about that teammate then playing against the spirit in the first place
Oh the excuses begin. Its not every pallet. This map is a 1v1, why would he be conservative with the pallets?
@@BaraPersson Seems like you’re the one with excuses. OP is clearly drawing attention to the fact that this strategy wouldn’t work in a pub match, since the other teammates would be screwed over by someone burning through all the pallets in their chase. Not sure why you’re ignoring that fact to try and lecture them with a take that doesn’t at all apply to their comment.
a good team would simply gain too much advantage after a single chase like that. It's gg.
@@nadiapflug1353 "hes wasting pallets" This happens in every match? There are so many pallets in the game that this usually doesnt matter. Also, the gens would be popping. You wont get perfect teammates every game anyways correct? I dont see the problem with dropping pallets because thats how u play vs spirit
@@BaraPersson because clearly I can use pallets across the entire map while being in the deadzone repairing a gen.
"The 1v1 doesnt matter" If a killer was so good every chase lasted 5 seconds and they ignored pallets and windows (So basically if Nurse had exposed) then every match would be a complete stomp. Whereas if a killer has a chase that takes more than a minute, the game is over for them. Saying the 1v1 doesnt matter is so objectively false its actually baffling anyone could think thats the case.
Obviously it does matter but unless you are getting downs insanely quick then the 4v1 is more important, want proof?
Because Scott may not realize it but he already defended Tru3’s point in his Micro vs Macro skill
So have at it
Yeah, had a match we weren't doing so hot in against huntress with two gens left, but two of us managed to escape.
My only teammate left had aftercare active on us and she got pushed off her gen. I noticed, because of aftercare, and popped her gen while she got chased and subsequently downed. I was going to get a flashlight save, but she flipped around and picked up so I chose not to blow my cover.
She gets hooked for the first time and as I'm saving, huntress comes back. I had borrowed so I wasn't worried, but she was after me instead anyway.
Now this teammate saw the OTHER gen that I was working on when she got pushed off her gen and immediately went that way while huntress chased me in the garage on Freddy's map. The pallet downstairs was still up and I managed to dodge three of her hatchets, greed the pallet and use the window right up the stairs to keep greeding. I could've done it longer but I didn't realize she was pulling a hatchet as a tossed the pallet.
So I get hit and I choose to run out the door instead of the window (after two loops of doing this so she tried to mind game me by cutting me off, but I was leaving to go towards school).
She finally realized and about the time I got into school my teammate popped my gen and was opening a door and I could SEE HER WITH AFTERCARE. So I made my way over ducking behind objects so she might lose sight of me, but she never did. She was out of hatchets and as I got to the door it opened and I was free.
Tl;dr, my ability to greed that ONE pallet, combined with her aftercare, saved us. Without aftercare I wouldn't have known what gen she was working on if any and it would've never gotten finished. Without aftercare, she wouldn't have known about my gen either. Without aftercare I didn't know where the doors were and I would have surely died without that guidance.
@@vonpepper3482 Glad to see actually smart ppl talking in comments, we are minority tho.
@@angrykouhai2053 Yeah smart people are a minority am I rite fellow 200IQ viewer.
@@thesenutties9740 y butthurt? sry
dbd drama is so fun to watch. Imo everyone has opinions but its what is more healthy towards the game should always be the main focus.
Except the part where half of each side is just yelling insults at each other calling them wrong and entitled X mains
@@Gaffywastaken true
the worst part of this is that it’s NOT drama, but the internet loves to turn things into drama. This is debating wether a character in a video game has counter play or not, not wether or not scott or tru3 fucked a minor or something. People have gotten way too comfortable with picking a “side” and fighting than just using their brains to listen and have discussions.
No this drama is annoying and is getting personal
Um no the most important thing for a game is the fun who the fuck wants a boring healthy game haha
2 minutes into tru3's video he says "nice read" when the claud vaults the pallet. it's a total guess. claud has no way to know if you just stand still. it's not a read predicated based on prior information, it's a guess. reads are not guesses. maybe the argument should come down to this instead of counterplay which has become muddled.
not to mention the fact that scott said for the 1v1s he is not allowed to do the standing still bait and also told the survs he faced that he wont do that. which means it wasnt even a read it was just abusing the knowledge he cant do the bait
If the guess ends up being favorable for the guesser it’s a read that’s what they are in general sense
@@TheLordShIIva No... You literally don't read anything. You good?
Actually, reads are in fact guesses.
In fighting games a read is a gambit on if you think the opponent will do A or B.
So I really don't see how this is different.
However, I'm not really here to debate the video contents with people.
I think this whole thing just comes down to opinions, and it's only going to change if there's a sit down discussion.
@@CrapcomLover almost right, except reads are informed guesses based upon prior interactions. If there is no prior information, it's always a guess.
If Tru3 doesn't want to debate Scott its probably because deep down he isn't confident in his own argument, and is just being stubborn about it.
He did debate about it and they finally both agreed that spirit has counterplay. Scott just says it isnt a fun one. Which is completely subjective anyway
I disagree. Debates can usually just devolve into screaming matches or have one person become dominant in the conversation and not allowing the person to respond, particularly if one of the people are unable to pull up facts and data at the time. Not to mention energy and time and all that.
I *could* debate but I don't have much energy and negative situations or anything that raises my anxiety will rapidly drain that time. I disagree that Spirit has counterplay but a debate isn't end all be all.
@@shotgunammo A counter that affects all killers the same due to map design flaws has no correlation with counter play to spirits kit if you remove that flaw there remains counterplay for all killers but Spirit.
i think it might be more or less pride and he doesnt see scott as a good enough person or something. thats just my guess.
I think people are confusing counterplay as specific counters. Its still a counter. Regardless if its universal
Goddamn Scott had his finger on that hair trigger to reply so quick Jesus.
Shit starting to get real when these fellas are posting youtube videos to respond to each other within the same hour.
The real counter play to Spirit is being able to have infinite RUclips videos to monetize.
He’s streaming right now. He pre made the video and uploaded it while streaming which is crazy that he’s that predictable
@@MrStevo7708 it’s merely counterplay.
@@zinab7490 lmao
Shit got real when Scotty here insinuated that Tru was insulting autistic people or whatever tf and engaged in a witch hunt because Tru didn't give him the reaction he wanted.
The intro of this video is disingenuous af
I've watched both this video and tru3's video to see both sides.
And while scott is being very respectful i just have to say tru3 is acting very passive aggressively in his video and it seems his ego is a bit bruised from prior discussions.
He's insulting both Scott and the survivor, mocking scott by endlessly calling him a "self-proclaimed amazing spirit" then proceeding to never let go of any of the mistakes Scott makes, while at the same time before the video even goes for 10 seconds he says they could've gotten a better survivor, implying that the skill of the survivor is unsatisfactory to be worth using as an example. All in the same video where he says something along the lines of all humans make mistakes. He's so unbelievably passive aggressive in the video that he just comes off as petty and egotistical.
Well honestly from any video i've seen of Tru3, he really just comes off as an ignorant and arrogant jerk most of the time.
@@lazypayday4476 He's a clown tbh, a literal pro player is 'unsatisfactory' and making fun of Scott constantly lmao. Honestly hard to watch him usually but this whole situation is embarrassing for him
A little bruised? Imagine living in an echo chamber and then getting a new butthole torn the moment you step out of it.
@@lowaimnobrain Two things
One I'm going to assume saying "small brain" was an attempt at an insult, I give it a c-.
And two, where is Scott "Digging" at Tru? aside from the obvious fact that Scott disagrees with tru which is not within itself inherently insulting.
Honestly Scott, don't waste your time/energy/grey matter on this guy. It's easier to reason with a brick wall than him
Nonetheless, I commend the effort.
Yeah, I really can't see Tru ever admitting that he's wrong about something
@@thebimaker5814 that's why I don't like that Egoistic Notalent!
@@priyanshu.sharma.0002 you've been yelling this all over the comments,stfu,no one asked
Didn't Scott already admit that spirit has counterplay afterall? Also you've clearly ignored the very first thing he said in the video.
@@virus3x2 I think the only counterplay all things being equal was to drop every pallet which they established was only effective in a tournament scenario. Even the survivor Scott’s chasing says this would never be effective in regular play much less solo queue
Scott shitting on everything that tru3 has been getting away with in his echo chamber of followers is the best thing since Scott becoming a Demo main
For real, it’s why I stopped watching Tru. The man can’t accept differing opinions or being wrong, this also applying to his gameplay where losing means he ran into a sweaty SWF or what have you.
He shits on his followers too and talks to them like there some sort of child when they have a different opinion 💀 🤣 I've seen it to many times already, and he's right because he has X amount of hours in the game therefore your wrong. He can't debate or talk I've seen otz vs tru3 debate and it was clear that he has issues. To bad to cause he is a good killer but he let's his skill and ego go over his head thinking that's enough to be right
@@whothehellarewe same, use to love watching tru3 but his ego just got out of absolute control a couple years ago and he's been painful to watch ever since. He talks about empathy and humility yet displays so little of either
After scrolling through Tru3's comment section for 2 minutes, I've decided to hang back from this community discussion; His whole fanbase is entirely condescending and snobbish, while accusing everyone else of being so; Just with their attitudes in having this community discussion, It's obvious many of them don't understand the difference of personal attacks meant to cause harm and objective statements meant to teach, that may also happen to be criticism for an individual (Tru3). I get people don't like to be criticized in any capacity, but just blowing off or even demonizing the criticizer to denounce the entire argument they presented? Yeah I'm good, so God speed Scott.
Well you know what they say; like attracts like.
Keep. It. Civil. Pls. Listen.
As if this fanbase wasn't condescending and snobbish a few days ago. Come on m8
@@shotgunammo *Shrugs*
@@cloudnein8114 those aren't fans
Nothing against Tru and I respect all of his different opninions but it really feels like he has a hard time being okay with others' opninions.
Because that is the truth. His ego is massive and he can’t take criticism. At the end of his video he says something like “am I the one in the wrong?” He states this but will just ignore it as he believes he is right and no one can change his mind. I don’t hate true or anything but recently I’ve been losing some respect for him as this debate has really brought out his ego.
Everything against tru and 100% disrespect to all of his opinions because he’s a delusional, pathetic, insecure man child that can’t accept criticism, others opinions or failure.
Nothing that ever happens in a game is because he was outplayed.
He’d rather bully, harass and disrespect others for respectfully disagreeing with him and offering him actual evidence.
Idk how he’s even a fog whisperer as he and his rancid little equally delusional community is more toxic than people like Ochido ever were.
@@LilGayyBoy Wow, what did he ever do to hurt you man? Calling him pathetic while writing this comment...
@@LilGayyBoy wow a tru3 hater such a surprise how dare he have different opinion what a monster
I find it somewhat ironic that Tru will vehemently disagree with topics like Spirit having no counterplay or SWF stuff, but not want to defend his own reasoning. It reminds me of his own gameplay videos and streams where he’ll routinely begin to complain if things don’t go his way, but if they do- hey, perfectly balanced.
I feel like people always forget that spirit isn't only strong because she can end 1v1s really quick but because she forces survivors to pre-drop every pallet, make them constantly change loops where they are forced to go to another loop and pre-drop a pallet and/or go near teammates, which then the spirit can choose to either pressure the gens, swap targets or continue the chase, the spirit is literally a win-win in everything. I feel like the only pallet which is ok vs spirit is the shack pallet.
Yes, but not every Spirit is going to be really good. Even if you use every pallet on the map by pre-dropping it, you can still avoid going down for a decent while just by how you move when she's phasing, and IW helps as well. You don't need to avoid going down for long, just long enough by everyone, and splitting on gens, and you'll prolly still win.
I think your on a good point in a random lobby against a spirit if your the second person to be chased your going down way faster because half the map doesn't have palates and the spirit knows where to chase you. If you're the last person being chased there is actually no counter play besides hatch.
Bubba can destroy all pallets faster, but he not strong as Spirit. Spirit strong because: 1) Strong chase ability with almost no counterplay 2) High mobility.
@@originalvox2530 Bubba doesn't force you to pre drop a pallet, you can still loop him in filler loops before dropping it. He destroys pallets faster, he doesn't get them down faster.
@@orlandored9608 he actually force you pre-drop pallet, because if Bubba close enough, charge chainsaw, you be greedy and not drop pallet premature, he just insta-down you. I catch so many survivors with chainsaw just because they be greedy and committed to run one more circle withnout pallet-drop.
Imagine being a goalkeeper and you're about to try and save a penalty, you're looking at the penalty taker and then all of a sudden they're appear in front of the ball and are kicking it at goal and somehow you have to make the save. The majority of the time that ball is going into the back of the net, sometimes you'll save it, the times you save it wasn't skill, it was luck, which is how I feel playing against the spirit is like.
You need to drop the goal to the ground so that she can't score, move to the next goal, repeat xd
@@javierfalco2535 thats actually how tru3's mind work. so sad
5:20 what about when mmr comes scott?last time they tested it i couldnt play blight or oni bc i only gave me 4k+ hr 4mans
Scott: “Plz don’t start shit, let’s keep this civil.” Tru3 for the next week: “They’re attacking me, my character.”
"You're acting very strange right now"-Tru3, in response to any criticism aimed at him in anyway.
Scott: says not to start shit
Also Scott: tru3 makes fun of disabled people because he made a mocking voice at one of my stans
And yet simultaneously here you are. Bitching about True's character. Did you even think for a second before posting this?
My man sry but what scotts video did was literally like if 2pac said sry to east coast and biggie before hit em up u cant say keep it civil then insult someone and excpect them to not get mad
@@Considerable_Ounce I have to check his stream for that
The wording seems to be very important.
Let's all say "counterplay to Phase Walk in a chase".
I feel like this precisely describes what Scott is addressing.
On the other hand there is "counterplay to Spirit in a match", which basically includes all the hooking, gen speeds, tunneling, perks, etc.
@Scarlet7Fever {Ade} I think that’s their point. Saying “Spirit has counterplay in the chase” is much different than “Spirit has counterplay in the match,” both of which are context sensitive in regards to all players involved. If we’re talking non-competitive, it’s counterplay in chase, since literally nobody is gonna do Gens since the Survivors spend more time crying about their problems than they do actually attempting to play the game. So because of that, just counterplay her in chase so you get blood points, then suicide on hook if less than 3 Gens were done. If we’re talking in competitive, absolutely it’s counterplay in match, since you know by the time you go down, the match is probably almost over. Even if you die, competitive scores team on team, so as long as your survivors are better than their survivors, you win.
So yeah, she has counterplay, but it’s depth is like an empty glass: flavorless and unsatisfying.
@Scarlet7Fever {Ade}
Omg, you didn't get the differentiation between counterplay in a chase and counterplay in the Match, did you?
There are super many perks, which is good counterplay (match) against all the killers. Prove Thyself, Exhaustion perks, BT, DS, ...
Edit:
5% of the community? Wow, that's a super bad estimation. I would say far less than 0.1% and even that is probably far off.
@@verrenos5825
Hmm, imo there is no counterplay to Phase Walk in chases in neither competitive nor non-competetive.
The only counterplay is (which works against every killer) to drop all pallets instantly and rush gens. This definitely works in competitive and in non-competetive, if either the survivor team is a swf or the Spirit player is mediocre.
@@maxmustermann3876 R/Whoooosh. That was the point of what I said, along with Scott’s point and many others
Yup, thing is she has both of those types of counterplay. Only thing you could argue is there is no counterplay,while injured against a spirit using stridor, while you do not have iron will and while she is phasing. That I might accept, though there are still things you can do to increase your chances (admittedly often not by much).
Tru3Ta1ent: *makes any statement*
The overwhelming majority of the player base: no
Well I mean because half of what he says is spat out his ass don't get me wrong true is a good player but fuck me man, egotistical
@@LegacizedApe egostiatical is very much true. Look at his name.
He can say whatever he wants but when he says it with arrogance and trying to belittle others just to protect his own ego and "talented" player image then its his own fault
I will say I think something i saw in a glitch gave me an idea but how about when the spirit phases you see her initial 2 seconds of movement is seen as normal but after wards she goes invisible this gives some level of counter play for both sides the spirit can double back from the initial movement or even keep going the same direction. The survivors are able to see when she phases and will be able to make their choices from that information
Every streamer has their own horde of sycophants - but man you kicked a hornet's nest by challenging Tru3. His supporters are next level kool-aid drinkers. I think only Pug's are quicker to snap out.
Glad you could comprehend Scott’s very first sentence about keeping it civil
@@johnwarner4178 sentence of the day.
@@johnwarner4178 Not attacking tru3 at all bud.
“Lets keep this civil”
You misinterpreted that rather heavily, friend
@@steveparker4215 you very clearly are
Mans made a response video in 19 minutes
@Frost Flurrythat wasnt even a joke trues video came out like 20 minutes ago lmao
@Frost Flurry who's y'all?
@Frost Flurry Doesnt respond to what? What are you even talking about
@Frost Flurry a hater of who exactly?
@Frost Flurry bruh what are you even talking about? Shut up lmao
I wish everyone respected eachother in this community.
Would it be too much or irrational to just remove sound when phasing?
No, absolutely not. Old Prayer Beads to be basekit for spirit would literally kill the game. Old Prayer Beads had to go.
We got another spirit video this year? Hoping this doesn't take away from our 2022 spirit videos
Guy with big ego only tries to get content for his narrative? *insert shocking meme here*
Its almost like that's what most people who have seen Tru3 associate him with...
If this is about Tru3, Scott is in the same boat. Attaining content is literally their livelihood
@@smokeycyrus7755 the difference between Scott and tru3 is that Scott brings up debates about general game balance, whereas tru3 abuses over powered things in the game without hesitation (which I have nothing wrong with, I use meta perks 80% of the time) but then complains when people do it on the other side. No person who plays both sides will agree with tru3 because is ridiculously biased.
@FlashlightAbuse Scott is agreeing with Tru3 on the factuality of the subject. But he's doing it in confrontational, public manner...a way which aligns him with the mass opinion (regarding the fun aspect, not actual subject material)...as he soaks in views and dollars.
He's largely just using Tru3's personality flaws for profit.
@@lo6379 Tru3 and Scott each play both sides.
I still think there should be a passive phase whilst phasing, like every second and a half or less, Spirit will phase back in revealing herself to the survivor whilst also being able to see the survivor as well for maybe say half a second, leading to more visual counterplay for both roles and giving more necessary info to make the chase less luck based and more about reading and predicting the player.
How is that for both roles lmao
Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice the "while phasing" 😂
so you mean aggressive phasing lol
That's interesting
I agree completely. Also scratch marks should be more delayed whilst phasing so u don’t just have to walk everywhere
Do you have an email I can send clips to? I have footage that genuinely proves spawns are broken. Me and two other survivors spawn directly in front of eachother next to a gen
you guys spawning there is better for the killer than you realize
@@andrewbaiocco304 it was trickster and we did the gen before he got over to us.
@@AirComma And if you spawned separately you could have had two gens done by the time he downed the third guy, who probably had half of his gen done by the time he was chased. Survivors splitting up is always worse for the killer then them starting together. That problem you're detailing with getting the gen done before he could arrive isn't due to spawns, it's due to maps being too big.
@@laminar2477 it was dead dawg but I've never thought about splitting up like that before you have a good point
Cherry picking evidence to support your claim but ignoring anything that goes against it has always grounded my gears. People would think they’ve won an argument against you just because they’ve decided it’s won
Scott admitted that he was wrong though
Reminds you of a certain ex President doesn't it?
@@shotgunammo Scott admitted that he had changed his perception of there being absolutely no counter play. But in fact the counter play is to drop every pallet within 10 seconds this screwing the rest of your team for later
@@TheShakenCondor thats absutelt not what he said. That's what you got out of it. There's no such thing as screwing over your team and he also never even mentioned the word 10 seconds NOR every pallet. It was a normal loop run where a pallet gets skipped where windows are used etc.
This ain't demo wtf
Spirits are the mosquitoes of dbd
Not a single truer statement exists
People like this are the reason this game sucks
I just played against one that camped all game and had NOED. When the NOED popped up I just grabbed my phone and browsed reddit till the match was over. Worst designed killer in the game.
@@CPhelps1247 worst designed perk in the game
@@AirLight1646 I don’t even care about NOED. My brain just melts when I see a fucking Spirit with it.
I’ve been seeing a lotta tru stuff in my recommended lately.
Sorry for your loss
I'm so sorry
He has been clout chasing a lot recently. First the stuff with Otz and now this he seems to just say something really stupid about the games balance or how it should be changed, and he gets lots of attention for it from other creators and the community because he's been a huge part of it for such a long time. He seems to want to give a lot of "this is why I think something but you won't understand why I think it so I won't bother telling you" because at the end of the day, they're bad takes. For example the "12 hooks is a win for killer, not a 4k" idea is flawed massively because it means that even if the survivors lose, the killer does as well. If the survivors decide to do so many things because the killer is playing so well, the killer is then punished for it, meaning that the game wants to punish good play which is probably the worst thing you can do in any competitive game, after all who wold want to improve in a game where you lose more as a result. This then means that the game is entirely based on the survivors and how A) well they play B) polite they want to be C) the game is balanced because if it's more survivor favoured then the survivors have more opportunity to decide if the killer wins or loses.
All in all he seems to make incredibly bad points supported by little evidence, but the DBD community eats it up as drama and screams at one side or the other, therefore bringing attention to the situation, which means more attention to their channels etc etc. Basically, it's probably a money grab because I think that simply put no sane person can make these arguments and be stubborn and ignorant enough to think he is completely 100% correct when no one agrees with him and he is presented with hundreds of counter claims that are very logically sound. He has to be doing it for the clout.
deeply sorry that you had to witness that.
@@diablofrag2177 What did he do to Otz?
So from what I'm understanding here based on both perspectives and Hiron's perspective, Spirit has counterplay in competitive scrims and the like, but it doesn't apply to pub matches. Did I get that right?
yes, at least thats how i understood it as well, in a comp environment you can "stall" long enough to win but in pubs if you did this like 2 gens would be done then everyone dies
Yeah. Because the "counter play" is drop every pallet you get to and then force the spirit to guess which side you will end up on after the phase. In a regular match dropping so many pallets so quickly will screw over the team. In the competitive scene they need to hope spirit guesses wrong enough times for the team to get the gens done.
No. She bas counterplay because you as a survivor have control when to put her in a counterplay mode. It's just not 'fun' for most people to have to guess so they fill their own heads with lies like >she has no counterplay. Well scott admitted that she does have counterplay after having his eyes opened. He just doesnt think its fun counterplay.
I think that pretty much sums it up.
@@shotgunammo I wouldn't call a 50/50 chance counter play no matter how much you delay the game, it's like saying the best way to get money is doing coin tosses. That's just my opinion though.
Here we go again
THE DEBATE MUST GO ON!!! Didn't have to wait for your reply :)
Got to love it😅
Can someone explain how blight is strong I don't see it
so if I'm understanding this right, the argument now boils down to whether or not pre-dropping every pallet you get too is acceptable counter for regular matches, cause on one hand it could work but on the other you'll probably make half the map a dead zone(god forbid you get a shit autohaven) for 3 gens then everyone starts going down like flies because of said dead zone not to mention possible giving them a 3 gen in said dead zone.
Yes and no, pre dropping pallets is a counterplay, or sort of a band-aid to the situation, it still results in rng based decision after the pallets are being dropped, which isn't counterplay
Tru3 starts beefs with every content creator on Dbd lol
Lol name one he started himself. I'll wait
That's because his fans kiss his ass and he thinks he's awesome at the game because of the echo chamber his fans cause.
He was wrong in the debate with Otz.
He's wrong about the debate with Scott.
He just likes to complain and whine when a match goes bad.
@@Alex-eu6rw Spoken like a real deep throat lol.
@@minigxns5278 >Says the guy fan boying for a man
@@Alex-eu6rw says the guy using a greentext format on youtube
"Please, lets look at this objectively." There's your first problem, thinking people can look at situations objectively.
If he could actually understand what Tru3 is actually saying then their might be an actual debate. SMH. I can’t watch the rest of this crap.
@@moegirl9754 maybe u should actually leave
Ok iam just gonna ask this flat out : what is this ,,Scott tried to cancel Tru3talen on twitter,, thing I keep hearing about, I tried to look it up myself but only found a rather heated debate over slander from 2019 where I couldnt find anything like whats claimed here. Can anyone send my a link to the post that everyone but me seems to be aware of?
So I watched it all and you’re saying it’s only counterplay if the team is good and does gens? I don’t think any type of counter play helps if your team is potatoes and just urban evades all game.
Spirit is the easier version of nurse for killers to play, but is arguably harder for survivors to play against than nurse (unless they are one of the best nurse players).
When I was rank 12 as killer and almost no perks (besides the default & spirit’s perks), I beat a team of almost full red ranks. If I had any other killer I probably wouldn’t have gotten a down at all that game.
Seems kind of unbalanced tbh & Ive played way better spirits than in this video because they track you and move at speeds much quicker with better add ons. Also, you can’t use pallets nonstop in games, like in this example, because you have 3 other teammates that need them and using them to block the spirit from getting you just equals faster downs later.
man, i have a friend that don't even play killer, he plays just survivor with me sometimes, i let him play on my account one match with spirit at rank 1 and the dude 4ked
Yeah my girl did the same with blight but im not gonna go around calling him an unbalanced fuck.
@@shotgunammo Is blight invisible when he rushes? No, he is able to be looped and countered through running loops in a unique way when playing him. If survivors don’t know how to loop him then they arent that experienced, but he is not even close to spirit in terms of lacking clear counter play.
Lets be clear though, saying now that all you and everyone else has been talking about is that the counter-play to her just "isnt fun", is being a little disingenuous also. The argument has always been that she has "no counter-play" vs "she does" period. If you guys want to change the argument you can now, but to retroactively say now that you meant something else is nothing but disingenuous.
i changed my argument in the video with hiron. i literally word for word say she can have counterplay in a competitive scene. this happened weeks ago.
@@ScottJund right, you adjusted your argument weeks ago to suit the current situation, but the argument that has been ongoing and what this is stemmed from is from over a year ago when that was not part of the argument. What im word for word saying is that it is disingenuous to act like that is what the argument has been the whole time which is how you present it in the video.
after watching it a second time, maybe i am misconstruing what you are trying to say. I do still however feel that what is happening between you guys is much less an argument and more a stand off of egos,. Take that how you want, but we all have egos and dont want to be wrong. It is kind of apparent to me that is what is going on here. You guys dont really like each other for whatever reason and I dont really care why. Im only a casual fan of both of you and have been commenting to him the same type of things. I see alot of twisting things and adjusting the argument to make it favor yourselves both ways, which just doesnt lead to anything except more arguing.
@@adeptgopnik I don't know how you could possibly think tru3 is not incredibly biased towards the killer side, scott, otz and dowsey are all way more concerned about proper balance for both sides - tru3 just cares about killers being stronger hence why you will never hear him say that a killer potentially needs nerfs.
@@CrimsonHeart3 did i say that?
Have you ever seen when playing as spirit one survivor kind of swap out for a survivor that ur chasing by leaving a trail near the injured survivor while the original survivor will walk into a nearby corner or something. I’ve seen it a few times and this might be considered valid counterplay
That would also kinda tie in with the "SWF op" argument. That level of coordination is really only possible if you are on voice coms.
@@RaffoPhantom aye so there is somewhat of a valid counterplay but only if you are on voice coms and extremely coordinated. which shouldn’t be necessary
Can we get a video on the lack of fun/counter play there is to exhaustion perks next?
everyone already knows that. dead hard is very annoying.
this whole discussion would be so much easier iif true understood that most people care more about the fun aspect than anything, pre dropping every pallet may be a counter play to spirit but that is just ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ
Yes but not only that. The guy in the 1v1 could pre drop pallets because he was alone but if they were playing a 4v1 the spirit could just change targets while the other guy waste a pallet thinking the spirit was still chasing him
@@diegorivera3631 yes.
yes.
A pallet 50/50 isn't counterplay lmao
It may be silly but at this point I feel you should make a video just on defining practical examples of counterplay in dbd. It seems there's a lot of people confused as to what that really means, if they end up considering basically throwing the match as such.
Been watching tru3 for about 3 years, and hes basically been my main source of dbd content. Learned the game from him and all, but I gotta side with Scott here. True isn't handling the situation/debate very well by accusing Scott of doing this for money and attention, claiming Scott is manipulative and sent a mob after him (he didn't, the internet just went after him, twisting what was said and blamed Scott for it, playing victim). He was dismissive and being kinda rude to Hiron, the person whos perspective he used for his video, after finding out he didn't agree with his opinion either, only to conveniently get an Oracle player that agreed with him to support his argument. This whole situation has definitely shown a different, kinda ugly side to tru3 imo
One of the few people that have nailed it with the analysis on the situation, especially the whole twitter thing - props to you, I've been saying the same thing.
I think it all comes down to perspective. One views the game as a 1v4, and the other views it as a 1v1. They're honestly both valuable opinions, but I think it just boils down to fun, and most of the players who play this game, lets be honest, are heavy casual players. I don't enjoy going against spirit in a competitive setting, but I do sometimes like going against her in a casual game. Everyone has different opinions and ways they like to play and view the game, but I don't think drama should be spread through this argument. Props for keeping it civil, but what we really need to do is start a movement to remove deathslinger from the game and add back insta blind flashlights to make the game a lot more healthy and balanced.
Lol hi ussylis
He didn't keep it civil sadly.
At first I thought the same, but he tweeted so much crap directed towards Tru3. And he still does, as if he was obsessed with him.
His girlfriend came up with the "Tru3 mocking disabled people" stuff which resulted in dozens of people coming into the stream to insult him etc. I can't blame Tru3 for not wanting to deal with his stuff.
Edgaralanbro said Tru3 should drink Acid and die (no idea if directly or just in a group with his friends).
Not to mention the shittalking from his streamer friends like Morf and how the mods in chat just continued.
They spread so much toxicity, I'm actually speechless of what is going on.
I hope you look into this one, dig a bit more. You will notice that Scott is just acting like a friendly person who wants a normal discussion
@@flevami OR, other people create drama where there is none .. ever consider that? yes scott is passionate about debates, but he is not responsible for what people create from these debates - twitter especially is an incredibly toxic place it's not a dbd only thing. Stop holding scott responsible for whatever people choose to say regarding tru3, A LOT of people dislike tru3 WAY before this debate ever happened. This is the world we live in, doesn't mean scott should limit his opinions just because others blow it out of proportion - for drama to exist there needs to be people that feed into it and many times makes it bigger than what it is. Tru3 also handles it bad in the sense that he is not open to debates and takes it personal, if he would be less emotional about it I guarantee you nobody would be making such a big deal out of it. The reason you are even making this comment is because tru3 acts like some victim over conflicting opinions, he essentially creates drama by being dramatic and condescending about it.
@@CrimsonHeart3 The reason I created my comment in the first place is because I can't stand people who tell others to die or spread misinformation about the said person.
I know Scott isn't responsible for those things, but one of the people was his girlfriend and he knew about what she said and didn't do anything.
I don't want to say Tru3 is a victim since I agree that it's his fault as well. But nobody deserves what people did in this scenario and since it's Scott friends, it's normal that he is hold accountable for it as well.
He also acted way more personal on Twitter than he said he would be in his youtube videos.
In the end it doesn't matter anymore because I honestly believe this isn't about the two anymore.
I'm actually just sick about the toxicity in this community and sadly it's Scotts friends who spread a lot of it.
@@flevami I honestly don't want to choose sides on this, because I don't know the full drama and I don't want to. I just wanted to give my take on the spirit counter argument. Regardless of your opinion on Scott, he's publicly said he doesn't want hate on either side. Just keep your opinion to yourself, and let them deal with the drama personally. Attacking him just results in someone else defending him with hate on the other person, it's a lose/lose situation.
For those who don't know you can see the spirit phased on pallets with windows of opportunity not sure about breakables or windows though if anyone knows feel free to add in.
I don't even understand what you mean.
@@RaffoPhantom okay so when window of opportunity highlights pallets windows and breakables when a spirit is phase form you can see her through the highlighted pallets. Get it?
@@ericmoberg7679 No way, are you serious 😂
@@ericmoberg7679 I don't if that's supposed to be intentional or not if you're telling the truth.
@@fanaria2469 I agree but it works
Is a calculator a type of counter ?
I can sense a new 69 episode long anime arch where scott and tru3 are mortal enemies and its unsure whether the end is survival of the fittest or about the friends they made along the way.
Imagine the sudden surge of hundreds of players randomly dropping all the palettes mid chase with no rhyme or reason, cus muh spirit counterplay
@m a i z I think you're mixing up counterplay vs. outplay here.
@m a i z Imagine thinking faking a window is counterplay and not outplay. Your stupidity hurts to read.
I think this whole discussion is getting tired and is going nowhere. At the end of the day everyone can agree Spirit is a strong killer and that playing against her is difficult, but not impossible. Not to mention that counterplaying her is reliant on many factors, including perks, add-ons, the individual skill of each player, etc.
Toxic fans on either side are always going to believe they are correct, and will always attack people that disagree with them. I say just leave the whole debate alone tbh, there’s just no point.
There is a point. If someone responds to you with a poor argument, even if it isn't cordial and is tiresome, truth is being arrived at regardless. There wasn't a good counterpoint to Scott, we learned there isn't any instant btfo argument as to why spirit has any counterplay. In fact the arguments for it are quite flimsy
I'm enjoying these debates between the DBD content creators on the game. I would love to see Tru3 and Scott get together and do a live debate just like Tru3 did with Otz. Hell, it would be interesting to see all three of them (or more content creators if it could happen) discussing DBD together. To start I think it would be an amazing idea because it would provide entertaining content, but more importantly it would expose each other's communities to different views and perspectives on the game (which is good for combating the hive mind). I feel like a lot of people (including myself) could learn a thing or two from watching content creators discuss their opinions on the game.
I like the idea, I've seen it for another game I play (Escape from Tarkov), where many different streamers who all have a lot of experience with the game talk about issues and ways to make them less of a problem.
5:03 I do think you are coming from an odd place here. Unless you're a meme squad, you're playing competitively and are doing everything you can to not get downed or hit unless you don't want to give up a god pallet. Saying that people don't stop running and try to walk around to confuse Spirit's or other similar tactics is just nonsensical and a lie. You are a good survivor and you try to out think the killer, and vice versa. My understanding was Tru3 was saying it's a 1 v 1 and the survivor was wasting time, imagine if there were other players working on gens. However, I stopped playing last year and I definitely felt like going against a Spirit was worse than going against a Nurse, so while I think he makes a good argument that there is counterplay, it's hard to maintain that level of focus across multiple games and God only knows what level your other teammates are at. So maybe that is the point you are saying, where this only works in competitive. Interesting.
The problem with True is that he will NEVER admit he's wrong. He also never compliments survivors/killers when he plays against them, just constant complaining.
Fookin ded ard
@@schorltourmaline4521 he’s a dick and wrong lol
@@schorltourmaline4521 literally in the hiron video i admit i am wrong and spirit does have counterplay at least in a tournament setting
What are you talking about when a player makes a good move he says “oh nice” or if he knows he made a bad play he reflects on it do you even watch his videos
Respectfully, if you actually watched any of his streams, he does compliment his opponents. Does he complain a lot? Sure, we can say that. Is he arrogant? Sure, we can say that too. Does he only compliment them when they do something that HE is more likely to do in game? Absolutely. But he does compliment them :)
I'd like to see more videos of yourself addressing Tru3's numerous takes. For example, Ruin and Pop should be in the base game and how Wraith is a top 4 killer (even before these latest changes to him.)
When is the 1v1 cowshed?
How many more episodes until they kiss?
This entire debate is an absolute mess, both communities are being overly stupid to each other and I really don’t think anyone with 30 IQ cares who is right or wrong. Its best to just give up scott, its not worth the time/energy
@@SeraphinaRivera even though literally everyone familiar with dbd streamers know who tru3 is and how much of an ass he can be
If he has to go through all these hoops to say that there is counterplay then there probably isn't counterplay
so what you're saying is the next DBD killer should be a Circus performer with hoops that the survivors can jump through
@@Obsolete386 I like it. We should also give the killer bottles to slow down survivors, and call him “The Clown” or something like that. Sounds like a good name
I think what they should do is remove the terror radius of the husk when she phase. When you hear the phasing sound your given an idea she phasing. But while your in her husk terror radius it takes away the only indication of her phasing which is the problem. So removing it makes it so the stand still mind games cannot work and survivor can have an indicator now. Also I think there should be a change between the interaction between iron will and strider not sure what they would do though
Idc if they change her power I just want a way to tell if she’s phasing. For example you can tell a nurse is blinking cause of the screech. Something like that would still make spirit fun to play and slightly less boring to go against.
who needs counterplay for blight when he's already lathered in butter?
I don't know man,y u start a drama by picking on tru. He is having a rough time. At some point u will get cancelled. So stop it pls
*Sees like-dislike ratio*
"Ah shit, here we go again."
I think you and True should have a proper structured debate. Maybe have Otz be the moderator. And you can both debate civilly each side because honestly it would be very interesting to see that since you both have such polarizing opinions on a lot of stuff and I think seeing you two debate and try and see what you also agree on would be insightful and fascinating.
Wasn’t your whole argument that spirit has no counter play whatsoever? I don’t think you ever mentioned how you were talking about how not fun is. Now, you’re essentially describing spirit counter play the way you were describing clown counterplay, which is that it’s boring and mindless. I don’t think you were talking about spirits counterplay in that manner before unless Im mistaken
Shh don't use logic in here you might get canceled like they are trying to do to Tru3 lmfao
My opinion of Tru3 drops lower and lower with every damn day, holy crap.
pretty sure thats true of all his viewers. I didn't know how bad he was until I discovered other dbd youtubers and realized how much he whined and complained about pretty much everything
Same, I always watched him on YT. My biggest mistake was watching him live on twitch.
His fan base consists of new players or seasoned players with mediocre skill
Why cant you see spirit??? I thought that was wraiths thing? Just make her blurry but fast when shifting and that fixes the character. You can now somewhat fight against her.
Hey Scott, is there any chance I could get a shot at the Spirit Challenge? I typically run off meta builds and don't usually have an issue with Spirit, and the videos you've posted haven't shown a Survivor attempting to juke the Spirit how I usually do.
If not, I understand, you said you didn't want to do this 100 times and you've got to be getting pretty close to it now
I’m a fan of both of you, but seeing Tru3’s and Scott’s community insulting each other makes me question my reason to live
It’s really shitty. Both sides tend to jump on the creators when they simply disagree.
I feel all killers have counter play. Spirit add ons just make her too strong. Like she feels like a cheap and easy Nurse. But nurse doesn't need add ons for her best performance. Of course mother daughter ring makes spirits the best killer arguable.
But really I feel it is clear solo survivor queue is the weakest. But also swf and killer match making is upsetting. When I see four rank 1s and I'm rank 9 it kinda sucks. This game is complicated and I just want everyone to get along. Or at least everyone's community doesn't start being mean.
I want you to watch this clip as far as spirit counterplay goes, not to ask you to pick a side. Just to see your opinion on the matter clips.twitch.tv/EsteemedSingleHedgehogBloodTrail. Here is a similar version to the previous clip, Check out this clip! XenoDBD streaming Dead by Daylight! clips.twitch.tv/AnimatedCoyMinkMcaT-wVC7usWv14vjmAB9
These clips are intertwined and should be both watched.
How do you feel that he says he got removed as a fog whisperer
Hes probably proud of himself
I'm sure he didn't got removed cause he had a diffent opinion on Spirit. There is another reason for sure.
True's confidence is slowly changing into arrogance.. only showing his good games, playing bad equals SWF. I once destroyed him with nurse and he didn't even upload the video because I was "streamsniping" which I wasn't. It's only counter play when it works for him and when it doesn't work he doesn't upload it. It's seems to be hard for True to acknowledge mistakes or getting outplayed
That's one of the reasons why I don't like Tru3Talent. To my mind he's a narcissist who can not take criticism or can not admit himself when he played shitty à la "I didn't played shitty, the other Players just were Tournament-Pro's". He really has to come down from the high horse. I think the real reason why he doesn't do the Challenge is because he's scared to blame himself cause he's obviously not too convinced of his opinion.
Why do I feel like this situation is spiralling very fast?
It is clear that both Scott and Tru3 are discussing different points (Tru3 argues that Spirit can be beaten and Scott argues that is unfun because you don't beat her with any specific skills other than gen-rushing).
Scott, while agree with your core idea, in this video you say that 1v1 is a good representation for your argument because it's about how much you can do with your skills as a single survivor. Later, you agree to the fact that preventively dropping pallets is a good tactic if you can rely on your team doing all gens fast. However, imo, one point that is missed there is that if this happens in a real match and you are running all over the place dropping pallets, you will pass by nearby survivors that are doing gens, and the Spirit can decide to go for them to catch them off guard, and then they might run towards an area that is now turned into a dead zone, meaning they could go down fast (and gens could start regressing by ruin or soon popped with PGTW).
Showing that you can run the Spirit for 1 minute at the beginning of the match is not a good measure to conclude that it is good counterplay. How many chases like that will you need to finish 5 gens? and keeping in mind that each subsequent chase will be harder than the previous one due to the lack of resources, and when somebody goes down there are a myriad of consequences depending on the strategy of the killer and the perks that they are using.
Let's be honest Tru3 will never do the Spirit 1v1 with you bc then it would show how trash his arguments are 😂 But I also love how he doesn't show the chases where the player did badly, and uses a top level player as an example of why she has ""counterplay"" (guesses)
Didn't he literally say they could of found a better survivor? Lol
Tru3talent's argument usually doesn't stagger as much as it has recently on a lot of debates. He's contending that "guessing" is considered counterplay. I mean if we're putting guessing as counterplay, then this debate is void as a whole. The 1v1 happens, but what killer chases a survivor for 50 seconds. They chase, inevitably runs into someone more in a bad decision, gets a down, then the game goes into a whirlpool. This is getting more and more silly as the days go on
Having actually heard Tru3's arguments before, its pretty funny seeing you lie about his beliefs and bring up things that he's addressed.
@@hatboy7146 lie? He's literally said what I've stated in the comments a multitude of times during streams and even a couple of videos. And when someone like myself gives a counter argument to what he literally has said, himself and his fans say we're switching the narrative or lying. We're literally saying what he's saying is wrong and why its wrong. And yall are coming back to us by insulting us or saying we're wrong with nothing to back it up. Please sir or ma'am. Explain how I'm lying and then tell me his true point of view. I would like to hear what you believe is truth on this matter in a civil way for once
@@Nolandiscool He's expressly said that making reads is counterplay, and not guessing. You're free to not see a difference, but to act like Tru3 is presenting them as the same is a lie. I don't understand why you're getting so emotional?
@@hatboy7146 two things. First you and tru3 as well misunderstand what you're arguing then. You're not reading the spirit. Its improbable and almost impossible to read something you can't see or hear where they're coming from. You are making a guess. A 50/50 guess. Not a read. When you name a guess, a "read", you can understand why people will say you are wrong. Second, when you as closing statement say im getting emotional, all it shows is that you have no follow up. If you have nothing logical to add, don't try to assume and insult. It doesn't help you at all my friend lol
@@Nolandiscool Tru3 has said that its bullshit that you can't hear her phasing. And I haven't insulted at all, which is why its silly that you're getting emotional. All I said is that you're misrepresenting Tru3, and you are.
Hey Scott if you have time please watch Otz video on the matter I think you'd like it and even see something that should help your case
Hmm do you think tru3 should be posting videos that prove the opposite of his point? Because that is basically what you suggested. Of coarse he's going to share the parts that prove his point. Everyone does. He's of course going to find evidence that displays his argument. I don't even know what on earth you are rambling on about that for
I feel like the debate would be like watching a rank 20 meg with a flashlight play against spirit 🤣
I feel like that isn't fair, the rank 20 meghead is way more useful of a player than Tru3.
@@monkymann5834 that's why I added the Meg's biggest downfall, a flashlight.... the compulsion to make a clicking noise and to blind the killer is unstoppable 🤣
So essentially the counter play is get lucky
I dont understand, Tru3 said spirit has counterplay or not? How about scott
it is harder in a 1v4 when you have chances to run into multiple survivors during a chase meaning added pressure. however against good survivors you can lead you away with bond but seeing as how no one uses bond well... odds are youll get more pallets than necessary out of a1v1 and a stronger late game