@Scott Jund at 14:30 u said that 25000 BP to pip up would be too much, but considering the extra BP that survivors gain from the actions of their teammates while in chase to equal out towards the killer BP gain, 25000 becomes a reasonable number to pip, as for now the pipping system rewards rather time effort than actual skill or game knowledge. what do u think?
Hm that's a good point. We're starting to go into layers and layers of hypotheticals to the point it becomes harder to actually tell what the good target would be.
@@ScottJund Another nuance to this to avoid the frustrations you mentioned Scott about potential for "leaving" bloodpoints in the game due to how the match is playing out. If a Killer chooses to camp and 4-hooks a game, the variance between what would have been the remaining 8 hooks should be allocated to the survivors (upon a Killer depip). In essence - If a Killer player decides to not play the game as intended, and proceeds to depip, the remaining potential bloodpoints can be awarded to the survivors divisible by how many remain in the match. This can be mathematically assessed to which it would effectively mitigate a depip by the survivors (protection) and punishment for the killer.
@@ScottJund Its incredibly difficult to truly know without a method of experimenting with the hypotheticals. without experimentation, they are just that. Hypotheticals. With the infrequency of tests regarding these kind of things from BHVR, its unlikely we'll ever see these ideas implemented.
@@3xpression296 "If a Killer player decides to not play the game as intended" There is no intended way to play killer or survivor, you only have goal(s). As survivor: finish gens and escape and killer is simply to kill people. Survivor should get more BP per action but I don't think we need to complicate things in that regard.
The current state of DBD just makes me sad. It's not that the game has gotten worse over the years (it's definitely better than how it was in 2017), it's just that the devs seem to have completely stopped caring.
Ngl I go through phases where I play it for a week or 2 and then I get pissed off constantly getting fucked over by the game. The game freezes every time I try to M1 or use my power (same with survivor) the auto aim for killer makes my hits not register, field of view makes me dizzy etc and this isn't mentioning the balance.
When big money rolls (skins, auric cells) devs stop caring because playerbase "eats" anything they receive DBD has no competition devs dont care about the insane grind It has, they make it worse As long people keeps buying overpriced skins they dont care about performance (exploits, bugs, glitches) 3 weeks later since RE chapter and game runs like trash on consoles
To be honnest, 5 years working on the same game with only 1 game mode (2 if you count both sides as their own thing), I can understand that after half a decade you start to really get fed-up and want to move on making a different game. Specially when you have to deal with spaghetti code.
@@dearcastiel4667 This isn't really a defense, though. 5 years isn't a crazy long time to make a game with no reward, much less make a game with constant monetary gain. In fact, it's an *average* amount of time. By comparison, Behavior doesn't have a very cohesive excuse for literally not following through with their plans; by the way, a lot of the things that aren't fixed in this game were supposed to be fixed 2 years ago. Two. Just another nail in the coffin.
The devotion store should have killer power cosmetics. Such as red lightning for the doctor, blue puke for plague, a victor skin, a cool looking chainsaw, a different wraith bell. Things like that
This would be really nice, its ultimately harmless (except maybe trapper cos of darkened traps and whatnot) and would be nice to see, you could maybe make cool cosmetic sets cooler with fitting killer power skins Also maybe have it so if you reach p3 you get the bloody version of a killers power if its applicable (like a bloody kanabo for oni, bloody Viktor, bloody chainsaw)
@@gab1077 or have different sound effects when it closes on a survivor. But yeah if it gives an advantage it definitely wouldn’t be in the store. Or you could just argue it’s like a survivor wearing a dark skin
Bro something little like this would motivate the shit out of me to play the game more. I grind enough as it is just so I can p3 everyone but after that I know I will get bored again.
I get the feeling that Killer BP is still considerably higher than Survivor BP because they want to make sure there's as many killer players as possible. If that incentive is changed I think the killer playerbase would actually reduce, even if it was just slightly. I do like the idea of partial gains for objective if you've run the killer for x gens though.
I've personally noticed that the reason why survivor BP is lower is because it's harder to get WGLF stacks compared to B&C. Simply because you're competing for the unhook or pallet save.
@@Deemel_ yea for sure, WGLF is (mostly) counterproductive for the survivor side because it causes too much altruism, whereas BBQ for killers gets you to hook evenly, which not only working toward your objective as a killer but also incentivising you to play in a way that makes the game more fun
Honestly, playing Survivor and Killer is like playing two entirely different games. I don’t mind Killers earning more, especially considering how much more stressful it is to play Killer at high ranks, let alone when the current player base is so unevenly split. We need more Killers, not less.
I feel like Killer deserve the high BP because your BPs are derived from YOUR actions alone. Survivors get so much BP from "Coop" actions and other sources that are just not due to their own effort and are literally "free BP". Also, lets be real: most survivors get low BP games because they're somewhat "bad" and inefficient. There's always that one guy with 25K+ that carries the rest. I do think there's still space for a buff on survivor BP, though. But I also fear that if you add too many sources that aren't derived from your own actions, you'll completely fuck the game by incentivizing people to be even more useless.
“We have heard your cries and want to take immediate action. There are glaring flaws that we need to fix and we have ignored you for too long. The community has given great suggestions and we’d like to take the time to thank you. We will start by nerfing the pig” -Some dev probably
Pig does not need to be nerfed. If anything a few tweaks could be made to the traps to make them more fair on both sides, but otherwise she’s good where she is.
@@mrgotmilk7238 I’m just stating something I’ve always wanted to say. Pig is probably my favorite killer when I just want to have fun on a bad day and watch survivors scramble to keep their heads from popping like a grape
I’d honestly be perfectly happy if they delayed releasing a new killer for 3 months if they just spent the time fixing the game and implementing a lot of these changes
They have a Bot Mode in the Moble version and it gives you points. you can even try new killers, perk load outs, and practice. You can even set the bots different skill levels and set them to have them set their own perk load outs. When you are in a lobby it, wait times is very low, bots fill, and bots play really good. I have watched bots loop human players, flashlight human players. and etc. Bot killers are really good too. They even try to counter your loops. You try to go to Killer shack and loop it leaves because it knows what you are going to do and wastes its time. I dont understand why this is in mobile when it should be on all platforms.
@@ManlyOBeeferton I dont get it either. It baffles me as well. I have improved my killer and survivor skills on mobile for pc than on pc. There are 2 blood webs Survivor Blood Web and Killer Blood Web. Both blood webs cater to Killers and Survivors all survivors share add-ons and sac's. Killers share all common sac's. They its more of a store with Killers. You need more Billy add-ons then buy billy. Need Plague add-ons then buy plague. This is all in the same web. GET THIS. They have different sacrafices as well. you can spawn the hatch. Killer can CANCEL the survivor HATCH SPAWN at main building and SPAWN IT at killer shack for fucking camp and shut. You can get XP sacrafices to level up your killer for more perks and choose the perks they offer for every level you killer levels up. Its like this is like a complete overhaul of the fucking game and a way better game imo.
i think it's just that the devs for mobile are 100% code wheras main company has to do art, get ips, design kits etc. this means mobile devs can try more unique ideas
You cant fill out perks for the bots, unfortunately. And custom mode doesn’t give you blood points or experience anymore. It’s annoying because real queue times are so long so I just play against bots because I like to join a game immediately and play and leave.
As long as theres no competition for the game, they wont start trying harder, cause they have no reason to do so. Unlucky. All the "serious" players ask for are quality of life changes.
@@boredguy5271 yes actually. It’s pretty bad, the devs are pretty incompetent when it comes to performance/stability. They added new pallet animations when breaking them when no one asked for that, just something extra that wasn’t necessary and ended up making pallets invisible. Just incompetence.
@@boredguy5271 the Mobile version for some of the Wwe2k games. Actually had more and better content than the console or PC versions as well, for example. A lot of entrances are a little more detailed.
24:05 I almost never run meta perks and I really dislike the fact that "you probably have bt / ds anyway" is being used as an excuse for very unnecessary tunneling before the gates are even close to being powered. It's also a frequent occurrence that if I get tunneled off of 1st hook the killer will try hard to tunnel me off of second hook (including instant pick up) as well since he knows there's no bt or ds. Punishments for tunneling/camping and rewards for getting lots of hooks (revamped pipping system) sound like a great idea. Leaving me on the ground for ages just to down me again once I finally get picked up is also not much better than hooking again instantly since being slugged or on the hook is basically as good as not playing the game at all, I see that slugging can be beneficial to winning a match but it's a really shit experience for the other side if a decent portion of the game consists of this.
You shouldnt have to spend a perk slot on countering a shitty situation. That basically forces you to run DS, Unbreakabe, BT and Camaraderie every match.
Prove thyself needs to be like We're gonna live forever but with this mechanic: Everytime you finish a coperative action (healing or repairing) you gain a token that gives you more bloodpoints
@@Promethe3u5 it just lets you reach the cap faster but doesn't increase it, with we're gonna live forever it gives you bonus bloodpoints increasing that cap
@@Promethe3u5 Since it's rewarded in-trial it doesn't make much difference since there's a cap. What they mean is: you do cooperative action gain tokens each token grants a stackable bonus ALL bloodpoint gains post-trial just like WGLF.
I have no clue why they don’t do the same daily quest system as they have on mobile. Mobile gives over half a dozen small challenges every day for shards, bp, and like 5-10 auric cells and also gives longer weekly quests that give even more currency.
I always thought something that shows dedication or skill to a degree would be earning killer based changes aka oni's aura that is red when he goes berserk, you could earn different colors through how many downs you have gotten while in that form like 1000 downs through berserk = blue aura, and such things like that same for blights rush but only downs with lethal rush, mainly to give back to players with dedication
Blue could make the killers aura blend in easier with the environment. Red stands out easily but on some of the darker maps with semi blue hues to the lighting it could hide the killers aura better than the red stain.
God, I fucking loved Deathgarden. The chase mechanics in that game were really interesting, focusing more on juking and climbing around structures and foliage to break line of sight and lose the killer. It really does suck that it got shut down, they needed to market it to people outside of the DbD playerbase.
@@sleeplessCC exactly! and fighting games like street fighter and tekken let you search for games while training. people stop giving the devs excuses that they haven't even made themselves
My biggest hope is now that they have bot matches I hope they add the ability to actually pick character/loadout for those matches, because playing no addon trapper won't help my aim with Deathslinger, Huntress or Trickster XD
I agree with this heavily. I was chatting to my own dbd group about the training mode with other killers whether you have them unlocked or not to test them out and such as it helps get better with skill and such but also gives others the ability to play s killer and decide if they want to purchase them or not
@@jackthejolteon2658 I reeeeeally wish they didn't get rid of the Splinter offerings. They gave people a chance to test out DLC killers so that they could see if they liked them..though maybe they got rid of them because they didn't want people finding out they didn't like a killer before purchasing them..
@@ManlyOBeeferton i remember that offering from a long time ago. Was the offering that gave me my ultra rare offering trophy lol. And i agree. But the Tutorial mode would be a good addition in replace of the splinters
A concept for a time limit in the game to discourage hiding would be having a timer before daylight approaches. That way, it would fit the title "Dead by Daylight" and force every survivor to participate otherwise they melt or burn into a crisp when daylight approaches. Killers don't have to go out of their way to find blendettes and survivors would be punished for wasting their time hiding all game.
There's another side to that coin. Killers (hag, trapper) who refuse to chase outside of a 3 genned area. What am I going to do as a survivor when I get in a chase and as soon as I get 10 steps away from the gen they stop chasing me? The 3 gen on some maps is INSANE. Literally a 3 second walk from one gen to another to another. There is nothing survivors can do against that.
@@reeepingk The point of having the timer is to end the game rather than holding it hostage. Yes, there are three gens on some maps are insane and that is the map design fault, there's not much to do against it but it at least ensures a victory to the killer rather than a long stalemate. Situations where a three gen results in a very long match are also very rare so it is not likely the situation you described will happen but I have had games which took around half an hour to finish because my teammates just gave up going against a three gen.
In that permadeath mode, instead of an insta escape, maybe make the gates open, so the survivor still have to go the gate, but still have to be good at looping and resource management
I know they probably wont address or fix issues stated in these types of videos which is why I dont complain if they dont but I do enjoy these types of videos its fun hearing what ideas the community can think of to help this game.
In regards to the basement thing. I think a good two sided solution would be to have a portal in the basement that is linked to the stairs the basement didn’t spawn at. It gives cross-map mobility to low mobility killers and gives the basement a second entrance letting survivors get saves or access basement chest easier.
I always thought since they added the Emblems that the Bloodpoint system was always better. It always felt so cheap getting around 30,000 points as killer but all 4 of them escape so the Entity is displeased. Assuming I played a non-meta killer and played as fair as possible, it's so so very hard to kill everyone in that situation and with the Bloodpoint system you get rewarded for playing like that. Though I still think this document doesn't address the issue of the lack of a defined Win Condition for both sides, and is probably the biggest thing keeping DBD from going in a better direction. Other games work around their win condition, it makes it easier to balance because if you're too good at completing the win con you're nerfed and if you're not good enough you're buffed.
I think its a bit hard to define a win in this game(the community can't even agree). For killer you could probably just say a 3k is a win because you got most of them or you could go by the number of total hooks(Again the community has basically started WW3 over this exact idea). For survivor it could also just be 3 escaping but that's only from a team perspective. As a solo survivor I would care more about escaping myself over my teammates in general. Meaning that a win for a solo survivor is escaping. Issue is that what really matters is what the person playing feels about the game. Does it feel like a win when they hit certain conditions? Does a killer feel good after a 4 man SWF has bullied him the whole game even if he got 3 of them? Does a survivor feel like they've won after they get tunneled/camped the whole game and their 3 teammates get out as a result? Again the community is going to be split on this no matter where it lies and that means that even if the devs defined it all we would see if complaining as a result. As with most things in this game it's kinda a lose/lose situation.
@@Raycu2 That's just why Behavior need to come up with what a "Win" is in Dead by Daylight. I don't know what a win is. I know what a win "feels" like when I'm in game, if I get a 3k then I don't feel like I lost but then I also don't want to sweat to get the 4k. Likewise as survivor. I could say I "won" if I survive, but then if everyone else dies for it is that really a win?
for the 2 minute hatch standoff suggestion, they should just give the survivor a weapon and the killer a healthbar and let them duke it out instead of your average chase
Prestige should remove "wreath's" and similar things from the bloodweb entirely, instead replacing them with "envelope" type items that do 25% at brown, 50 at yellow, 75 at green. Delete the current envelope and hollow shell, replacing them with the good version
Badham Preschool maps have a notorious house as well where it's the one with the boiler room basement. I've seen vids of really good loopers and god damn son lol.
14:30 That’s something I already do. I didn’t realize that wasn’t like common behavior for other survivors. If the match is almost over and I don’t think I’m gonna have enough points to pip I will naturally start looking for things that I can do to up my numbers like sabotaging hooks, opening chests, opening the gates, and doing totems. It does put me at a higher risk for a killer to come find me but that’s a calculated risk I chose. I’m more likely to go back for a person while standing in the exit gates and they’re on a hook because I don’t think I’m going to pip. I do however wish that there was a bar that I could pull out or side scroll that would show me how much progress I got in the different categories that way I would know which category I need to aim for more. I hate when I get to the end screen and I’m just like a fraction of a point away from getting an iridescent boldness emblem. My average is about 17,000 points and one pip with a broken controller.
Yeah, I thoroughly disagree with the "escaping = safety pip, otherwise depip". That just leads right back into one of the game's original problems, which was fucking selfish teammates immersing themselves and taking hatch or immediately opening the exit gates and leaving. We do NOT want to encourage that type of behavior again. The way the game is modeled should be to encourage cooperation and altruistic play, to HELP your teammates so they don't have a miserable experience. How to fix camping and tunneling: Draw more inspiration from Pyramid's cage mechanic. Maybe the killer performs a quick 3-5 second ritual to have the entity come and swallow up a survivor, who then gets placed onto a random hook on the map, which is not revealed to the killer for a set period of time (to incentivize survivors to unhook), but will be revealed after that time (make survivors gamble using the hook time to focus on gens instead of saving right away). The basement teleporter locker idea is too convoluted. Just make more ways to get in and out of the basement, instead of being a one stairway entrance/exit death trap. Definitely agree with Scott on that one.
I love the BP pip system. My idea for values: 15k - safety pip 25k - single pip 31k - double pip Perhaps 20k safety pip for killer as it’s really not hard to get 20k even when doing pretty badly. Also the killer solo KYF is a MUST!!! Edit: As a solo Q buff - built in kindred MINUS being able to see the killer. So when a survivor is on the hook in solo Q the survivors can see each other.
I have just given up on the game, i have been playing on console since 2017 spent 2.4k hours on this game and it's not that the gameplay has burned me out and stopped me from playing it's the state of the game. We have massive issues with optimization, none stop bugs, poor balancing decisions and what often feels like a lack of care in that aspect, and more and more of this games greed keeps becoming apparent. Yes i know they need to make money but just look at how much people spend on dlc's not to mention cosmetics and every update so little gets done and if that's from either the devs not caring and putting little effort or they simply have to put THAT much resources to prevent the game from falling apart when things change or maybe even both doesn't matter both of these are issues. I will see how the next "optimization" update feels like and even if it's good i probably won't stay with this game for long. We deserve better game performance as well as more care and thoughts from the devs when it comes to balancing decisions.
You have played on console since 2017 and yet NOW you feel the state of the game is bad? ... do you even remember the queue times in old console dbd? jesus people will always have complaints. The devs are far from perfect but man do they deserve credit for improving a lot of bs that happened in the past - people take things for granted.
@@CrimsonHeart3 The game was absolutely fucking atrocious back then. It has improved, but it's still fucking bad. Scott even mentioned in the vid that they've repeatedly said they'd implement changes (some of them very basic), and yet they haven't. And most recently, they had the new chapter in the PTB and they *still* didn't realise the fuckup with RPD and the constant stuttering on console before officially releasing it.
They wont do the bots idea with BP earning because how will those deranking teams bully totally new players with killers they never played before and even practised?
if the game allowed you to see your bp gain mid game then you could put yourself into situations to get more bp. if you have been sitting on gens and only have 10k bp then you could go try to get into a chase or heal another survivor and vice versa.
This game is getting worse every killer they add and it's mind boggling how after demo was released every killer just turned into amazing chase, bad pressure. I hate that they think hillbilly is broken so they nerf him but keep spirit broken which is arguably the easiest killer in the game. At this point they should just open up custom servers like a valve game with maps and all and just let us play how we want alongside the current game. The devs will never fix this once golden idea for a game and just keep putting it further in the hole while people just eat up their half baked dlcs.
Thing about removing perk tiers is that it also opens up design space. With tiers in place each perk needs some kind of number that increases with tiers. Without tiers we could have effects that are entirely new without having numbers attached to them (there can still be numbers but there wouldn't *have* to be).
I think the 'sudden death' mode is a good idea with a few tweaks: Replace the hatch searching game of "who finds the hatch first :P" with a 45 (or some decently long) timer that starts when the last survivor dies. Killer sees survivor aura, and at the end of that timer, the hatch opens. This idea would still need some fleshing out, but this is just an alpha consept.
@@justgeralt7762 iri shards are mostly useless for veteran players,cuz they probally have all characters of the game,so the extra shards are just for cosmetics,or if they want to wait long enough for another chapter that isn't licensed so they can spend their shards
Uhh I've been playing for 4 years now and extra bp is certainly not worthless. Getting p3 with all perks on every character(Surv/Killer) takes an absurd amount of bp and I'm willing to bet 99% of the community hasn't achieved that yet
As a survivor player, I like a lot of it. The only ones I do not agree with are: 1. "Sudden Death". Considering that most maps are just giant deadzones now, and killers with strong anti-chase powers are just an instant win. It would literally incentivize playing killers like Spirit/Twins even more. 2. Hatch open animation. If there's only 1 survivor left, it should always be an instant open. Also, I really don't think keys are the problem. I'd be more for a change in the hatch spawn mechanic itself. New Hatch Spawn Mechanic: The hatch will ONLY appear if there's only 1 survivor left OR all generators are completed. - If there's only 1 survivor left, then it's fair game and should come down to who finds it first. Nobody will know where it is. - If all gens are done, then as a killer you pretty much already lost and it's fair game at that point. Sure you can turn it around still, but it shouldn't be handed to you.
One suggestion for "sudden death" that I've read is that all killers should become 115% and have no power when it starts - this way it becomes as fair of a chase as possible
the option to choose what addons u want is a good thing imo the problem actually stems from those specific addons being too strong for the rarity they are, changing those to make them more relevant rarity or less overpowering would fix it. addons like billy engravings change his power in such a perfect way, making addons light blight speed addons reduce his slam duration or making alchemist ring an ultra rare would totaly fix them
About perk tiers. I think they should do what the early COD games did with their Pro Perks. So only tier 1 can be found in the Bloodweb, and each perk would have associated challenges that revolve around the use of the perk that would level it up on completion.
Objective completion like gens and saves should give some global BP (gens: moderate BP bonus, saves: small BP bonus) to all survivors, but obviously more for the ones completing them.
It would be better to just have one tier for prestige. Also, to give devotion a bit of a usage you could do that you require at least one level of devotion to be able to prestige any character.
No something me and my friend spitballed around for the camping problem was: if you are within a certain radius of the hooked survivor and people are not nearby, you gradually get blinded/slowed to root, and the effect does not wear off until you are away from the hook for a extended length of time or the survivor is off the hook.
Well then that just punishes the killer if a survivor is looping where the hooked person is. It’s also a bad idea to implement because camping is a necessity if you want at least one kill. You aren’t going to leave the hook during endgame collapse with 4 survivors still left and one on the hook.
Scott!! My dude, I 100% agree with you on all of this. I wish the devs would follow through on *anything* they say at this point. Don't hide ping Make store accessible during queue Make prestige not worthless Make devotion not worthless Put in bots for DCs All of these and more have been said by sooo many people so many times and it's like they don't even address it at all, even to say "sorry, we can't do it for such and such a reason" which makes the community feel neglected imo. Re: camping, why not pause hook timer if you're camping in a certain range? Or make BT base kit to minimize tunneling?
I was thinking of adding a ability to survivors to gave up when they are last person on the ground so we don't have to wait 4m to bleed aut or DC and lose all bb and 5m ban because killer doesn't want to hook you
I very much like a lot of Trickster's suggestions. And I do actually really like that idea of changing the end game after hatch is closed to a sort of sudden death. Currently it feels boring on both sides to me, pacing back and forth between doors looking for the last survivor, or hoping you can open the door quick enough before the killer walks back to that side, or just being screwed because the doors are right next to each other. Having it be some sort of forced interaction for the last survivor to get out kinda sounds fun.
I think the survivor being facecamped should also get points from their teammates actions. Right now, being facecamped is a surefire way to depip and get 4k points. With this change, the survivor would be rewarded for sitting there the 2 minutes and at least get something out of the shit situation they were put on just because some guy decided to ruin the game for them. Fairly easy to implement after the proposed chase code is there, just make it so if you're on the hook and the killer is within 16 meters for more than 10 seconds (cumulative) , you're getting points.
Instead of just doing skill checks, they could have the survivor do a little puzzle to try and stave off entity progression, like some kind of incantation that needs to be assembled.
One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that currently, the amount of BP one gets from a match is COMPLETELY determined by how long the match lasts. A short match, regardless if the survivors escape or get killed, results in low BP earnings for both killer and survivor. A long match, again, regardless if the survivors die or escape, result in high BP earnings. Furthermore, the emblem system does nothing but complicate this. It makes ZERO sense that I can get 22k BP in a match and BARELY safety or even DEPIP, (yes, I have depipped at 20k+ BP before), then the next game get 13k BP and almost pip of 15k and actually single pip. This all ties into what he was saying at the beginning of the video with the "survivors should get BP for other survivor's actions if they're doing something useful." It bothers me that one of the solutions was "making survivors seek out the killer" as I feel that goes against the spirit of the game. It is... technically.... a horror game. In horror games you... generally... want to avoid the killer. I feel "making survivors seek out the killer" is a bandaid for a larger problem (BP/pipping based on game length). Why would I, as a survivor, seek out the killer when someone on my team who is much better at looping is doing exactly that? Should it not fall to the killer to decide to find someone else? Is that not the killer's job? Why should the survivor be punished for bad decisions made by the killer (the decision being to chase the good looping survivor.) If I am a weak looping survivor, would I not ESSENTIALLY be feeding the killer hook states? And given the likely possibility of being camped if you DO get downed when the killer is losing, why on earth would I take that risk?
Most of these points have been pretty good, sympathise with almost every single one. Kinda hillarious that "Bloodpoints = Pip" , which was the original system, may turn out to be a better system than the one we currently have. Despite the bar being not that high in that context lol But when it comes up to the Sudden Death Mode : Make the amount and density of the pallets re-spawning dependant on who the Killer is. As you already said, set-up reliant Killers like Trapper and Hag won't be able to deliver the same 1v1 performance as a Spirit, Slinger or even Clown. Ofcourse a certain rng would still be involved due to how maps are built, but I think when the density and quantity of re-spawning pallets would be flexible and dependant on the Killer, it might turn out to become somewhat fair. This in addition with little things such as traps and pools dissapearing when the mode starts (to prevent pre-setting up and making the entire mode a meme against some Killers), may actually be a quite nice thing and make the entire hatch-thematic feel more fair in general. Just cause it'll be much more skill dependant than it used to be / is right now.
I think trickstershadow's idea on a sudden death after the hatch is closed isn't about "fairness" but rather just a more fun alternative. Just getting one final big chase in rather than playing the boring "walk between the doors" game as killer, and something that's actually fun as survivor. I honestly think that'd just be a good way to entirely replace the hatch imo since the hatch really just feels like a participation trophy. Then you'd also remove the slugging for the 4k thing too.
I hate the idea about Sudden Death. The killer should never be in a position where they won the match but have to race against a timer to catch their last prey in order to guarantee nobody escapes. I hated that in Deathgarden and I'd hate that in Dead by Daylight.
The issue with determining rank based on hooks is that it is entirely dependent on the survivors. You could have every intention as killer to get everyone hooked three times but if someone dies on hook because three Claudettes are playing Jenga in the corner of the backwater swamp maps, what else can you do? Hook based MMR could work in higher ranks but it could lead to issues in mid-low ranks where survivors are quite happy going about their day. Actually, even in higher ranks, survivors could intentionally decide to throw to mess with the killer’s ranking. I could definitely see it being a problem by helping stream-snipers mess with people’s games even more
The looping suggestion at the 28:00ish minute is a really good idea for a game mode, literally just make it 1v1 and best of 5 or something which shouldn’t be too difficult to create whilst not hampering queue times? Would be nice when you want to warm up, improve on a certain killer/looping or feeling tired of the regular game; could also throw in a mini ranking system and the odd challenge to make it interesting.
@@dot7084 you queue in the back ground as a separate dedicated server is given to your group in the same way a custom is this then closes when you find a game
I believe that the exit gates should start regressing when they aren’t being actively opened EGC was a big update and was supposed to change the game, but these days I feel like I rarely ever see it. 99’ing the exit gates is a cheap strategy used to completely ignore the pressure the EGC is supposed to add. If the exit gates have not been interacted with for a certain period of time (example: 5 seconds) they should start regressing at the same rate they go up. Either open the gates or don’t.
You said something to the effect of "I don't think there is a good way to reduce camping and tunneling" I disagree. The first is EASILY solved with a harsher/modified "around the hook" penalty. First off, the penalty does not have a definite cut off. Think of the penalty as a counter. If you're really close to the hook, the counter counts very quickly. If you're a bit further away, it counts more slowly. This is to counter killers who will just stand outside the "range" of the penalty. MOST IMPORTANTLY, this penalty is completely negated when the killer is in a chase. If the killer is in a chase, this penalty stops counting. It also doesn't START counting until say... 5 seconds after the player is hooked (to give killers enough time to break nearby pallets, reload, etc.) Furthermore, what this counter should ACTUALLY be, is a % of the BP or total emblem progression. So basically, if you spend a lot of time around the hook, you'll only get X% of your BP/emblem points. If you spend TOO much time around the hook, you'll eventually get 0% of the points, meaning they're forced to depip. Secondly, there should be a BONUS for finding and chasing someone new when someone is hooked. Incentivize good behavior, penalize bad behavior. What this does is two fold. One, it penalizes campers. Strictly campers. You won't get knocked down from 100% of your BP until you spend say.... 30 seconds near a hook without being in a chase. That number can obviously be adjusted (and should depend on the number of hooks in the game/length of game, easily done with a simple equation.) Secondly, it gives killers an incentive to GO FIND SOMEONE ELSE. With this type of system, there would be zero reason to actually spend time around a hook when someone is hooked. As an additional thing, to combat killers abusing this system to derank, there should be a hidden "camping counter" in the background that persists through games. If the killer reaches the highest tier of camping two games in a row.... 5 minute ban. If they do it the game they come back, 10 minute ban. Etc. Penalize the habitual campers. They make the game unfun for everyone. Yes, we're well aware it works. MAKE IT NOT WORK. You could even throw in a gen speed progression bonus when the killer is camping. If the killer wants to end the game early by bypassing intended game mechanics (chases, healing, unhooking) then let the survivors end the game quicker. Obviously the survivors would get BP bonuses during this time so they don't all depip (almost an inevitability with a facecamping killer.) So that's camping. It sounds complicated but it really isn't. It's a progressive penalty that increases faster the closer they are to the hook that can eventually end in forced depip for the killer. Simple as that. Tunneling is also easy. There are exactly zero perks that successfully counter tunneling. A survivor can get BT, have DS, and that still does nothing. The killer can tunnel straight through all of that and down the survivor in 30 seconds. This results in that survivor (and likely others) depipping because they have no other points other than gens. Killer mains will say "oh well survivors should try to take hits and protect their friends." But that's stupid. You're rewarding the killer for tunneling by GIVING them health states. Furthermore, this doesn't even work 90% of the time. The killer will just ignore you trying to take hits. Simple solution. Buff DS. 15 second stun. The survivor leaves no blood trails or scratchmarks during these 15 seconds. I think the new DS is still good (it turns off if the survivor does anything), but just make the stun long enough for survivors to get away. A 15 second stun is significant, and the survivor can be on the other side of the map before it finishes. Make killers AFRAID of DS, instead of it just being "oh I'll just keep chasing them after they DS me because they're still in my line of sight or I can easily just follow blood/scratchmarks." Lastly, the DS timer does NOT go down while someone is on the ground. This will combat slugging people who were just unhooked. Personally I believe all unhooked survivors should have a 5 second DS timer (as base kit, without having to bring a perk) that doesn't go down so long as they are in chase/slugged, but most people would probably say that's too far. There are few exceptions to these rules, with nearly all of them coming when there are only 1-2 survivors left.
Possible idea: When a killer hooks a survivor, all other survivors get a small debuff to repair speed(1%-5% depending on balance) until they are unhooked, or all gens regress 5% and pauses progress for 3 seconds(but don’t continue to regress). But simultaneously survivors gain a small 1%-2% run speed boost per hooked survivor. This can incentivize survivors to Stop doing gems are go for saves as doing gens would be slightly slower and going for the save would be faster than normal. The debuff to survivors could help reduce the need for pop goes the weasel, and with it could slightly need to to 20% as the 5% would already be incorporated. The buff would help incentivize players to run for the save as they would be traversing the map (seemingly) faster than normal, but in the end it would only save a few seconds but players willl be more eager to do things if they seem like they do it faster *cough* Spine Chill *cough*. Just a thought
I want a different animation for my final hook... Nothing in the auditory department that can fuck up the killer audio in anyway... Also the point made at 12:50 is so true in a lot of my matches as killer or survivor. You can get hammered down, b ut somehow people either start to play stupid or they start looking for extra bloodpoints when there's 1 gen left.
I was playing killer against the CPU survivors. I wanted to see if hatch rng was dependent on certain conditions so I left the last survivor on the ground. Since he was a CPU the hatch system would’ve just given them the hatch right at their location. I was right, hatch did appear directly next to them but I might need to have a second match prove that my theory was right.
I thought that the hatches position is determined before player load into the map, because there was a bug where bubba and blight would either tantrum or go into cool down if they went over the invisible hatch
Love the Survivor bp idea but Id still like to see more ways to earn Survival Bloodpoints. As it currently stands this is basically impossible to cap out on reliably unless you're the obsession.
That sudden death thing, I can think of one thing and I think that would make this fair and fun for both sides. The survivor side of it is fine I think, maybe just make sure that “god pallets” don’t respawn so that way they can choose to either save them for later if this happens or to use it then before and risk being without a big defense in the end. The killer part is trickier because of insta down killers, high mobility, and ranged killers. Here’s what I say. Make it so when this commences the killers power itself is deactivated like perks are in a way and the killer automatically becomes a normal base kit killer with 32 meter terror radius 115% killer. That way no matter who they play as everyone has an equal chance on both sides. This idea is both cool and sounds like a lot of fun, and I would hope something like this could be done in the future because EGC is a bit dirty on the survivor side sometimes.
i think babysitter base kit would genuinely help a lot with tunneling - it's a pretty under-utilised perk anyway, and having the aura of the unhooker be revealed while scratches and blood disappear for the one unhooked would make tunneling so much more difficult. When it comes down to it practically, you're generally gonna automatically start going for someone if you can see their aura for an extended period of time, this would also help for those situations where you accidentally tunnel because both survivors look the same or the unhooker hides somewhere.
My prove thyself rework would be if you’re the first person hooked in a match and there’s still more than 3 generators left then it’d have its current power and always have the bp bonus. This forces survivors to group up and play suboptimally throughout the early part of the game to group up while also having an early hooked state
On the idea to have an instant kill mode during hatch game. When the killer closes hatch, you loop the killer and you win when to get the escape. I think this will be balanced if the timer is up and instead of winning. The hatch reopens. The killer can go back and close it, resulting hatch being permanently close but the survivor could make distance to open the gate. So you feel rewarded for your chase. If the killer doesn't close hatch then you get rewarded for a good chase if you could get to hatch.
Ok but what the hell is happening? Are the devs being overwhelmed or do they literally not give a fuck? I will legitimately stop supporting the game if the devs have just become complacent and couldn’t care about the insane amount of bugs in the game
Pausing the video at 13:00 to make a quick comment. I already do this as survivor. If I find my team only has given up a hook or two or none, and there is just one Gen left, I stop whatever I am doing get in a fast chase and get hooked to force the altruism and more chases. I do this because for starters, I don’t want killers to not have fun. Secondly I also want killers to get good practice and be challenged. If my team slams the gens and the killer loses the whole match in one bad chase he’s not going to learn a lot and won’t be a better killer in the next lobby. In fact, what’s more likely is he will be bitter and toxic in his next lobby and develop horrible play habits. I know most survivor lobbies don’t do what I do because I also play killer and it’s been my experience as killer that most survivors for some reason think slamming 5 gens and teabagging at the exit gates is the only objective of the game and they are super excited to just get 13k points in a game where they escaped. I already measure the success of the game on either side by how many blood points was scored, and to this end I feel like both sides can actually win. I have definitely been killed and scored over 20k BPs and felt great about it, and I have had 4 people escape me as killer but I got over 30k BPs and felt great about it. One of the things that attracted me to this game when I first started is I had a buddy who played Clown, and I would watch him stream, and he would often get a 3 escape or 4 escape game, and I would console him about the tough loss, but he would always be super positive and say stuff like “look we all scored a ton of BPs it was a good game for everyone” like he played to kill them but his metric for success was simply reward for being active. I would joke to him that it’s not a coop game! I was confused a bit at first but then kinda bought into it, it helped me get over being salty at toxic SWFs for sure. Anyways, a lot of the changes being suggested are actually ones you can just implement without BeHavior having to bake it in with coding. I see a lot of top survivor streamers do this already. If the killer is good they play objective focused, and if the killer is demonstrably bad they slow down on gens and cleanse totems and sabotage hooks and go for flashlight saves etc for more points. It’s just that the community has chosen to focus on certain metrics to be the win condition priority in a really unhealthy way. Both sides are entitled as all hell, but something about a salty killer raging in the end game because he didn’t get any kills against us sweaty survivors when he got 8 hooks and 32k bps makes me lose faith in humanity.
I really like your take on the bloodpoint pip system returning and the strictness scaling with rank, I do have one argument to make to that though, if you bottleneck survivors into forcing interaction with the killer (by this I mean actively following them or creating a noise notification, anything to attract their attention) you ruin the essence of perks, diverse playstyles and you enforce a singular playstyle which would be the only way to progress your skill level, allow me to explain. Stealth perks, or perks which alert players to the killer's actions, motives would be pointless. Whilst you could currently say that playstyle is kinda irrelevant anyway, people do use spine chill, they urban evade around the map or they make use of a key to monitor the killer. If you forced survivors to chase after the killer in order to PIP, you disable an entire genre of playing. Looping the killer is fun and sure, it can make for some good laughs, but I personally (might not apply to everybody) have had equally as much fun watching a killer freak the fuck out because I keep hitting them with Red Herring, or using Spine Chill to remain undetected, both of which may not per say interact WITH the killer, however they consume the killers time, resources, and allow my team mates to safely unhook, heal or do generators. As such, it creates a situation similar to being chased, if I am using my perks, my skill and my wit to evade the killer, isn't that the same as being in a chase? It's food for thought, and I'd hate to be in a situation where I can't escape, or progress the game forward because I haven't been chased, yet he's come to 3 gens I've worked on and not found me once. The solution I offer isn't original, but I kinda hope people might read this little spiel and come to understand that for some people, Dead by Daylight isn't just about running a killer around a pallet, and pressing space when it's most applicable. Anyway, my solution is to have a 'milestone' system that would provide survivors bloodpoints on escaping. For example one could be, "Unharmed: Escape a trial without being damaged, healed or unhooked", another could be "Undiscovered: Remain within a 20 metres of a killer undetected for a total of _ minutes". These ideas probably aren't solid, and there's possibly more aspects of the game which may be denied or restricted because of the fact that "my team mate is so good, and even though we've supported him by completing generators and progressing the game so that he can escape (and I personally feel like escaping or atleast taking actions that allow teammates to escape like a lot of generators or whatever should be valued) I still need to risk my life to earn some points or else I haven't done enough? So those 3 generators and cleansing ruin weren't good enough for my team mates? Thank you whoever for reading, I appreciate it and please correct me, offer more or do really anything. I'm forever grateful for the content Scott and I wish everybody a good and happy day! :)
Not sure if it was mentioned in the document, but TricksterShadow did say on stream that survivors should always safety pip from escaping. So players wouldn't be punished for having unconventional play styles that don't involve chases as long as they do enough actions to gain bp or escape. Not to mention, category bloodpoints being uncapped would mean you can pip solely from doing a lot of actions in one category and not have to force yourself into chases
I don't agree with closing the hatch being killer sided, I feel like every time I've closed it, the last survivor still opens the gate and escapes. most killers don't have the mobility to watch 2 exit gates on the opposite sides of the map at the same.
@Scott Jund at 14:30 u said that 25000 BP to pip up would be too much, but considering the extra BP that survivors gain from the actions of their teammates while in chase to equal out towards the killer BP gain, 25000 becomes a reasonable number to pip, as for now the pipping system rewards rather time effort than actual skill or game knowledge. what do u think?
Hm that's a good point. We're starting to go into layers and layers of hypotheticals to the point it becomes harder to actually tell what the good target would be.
@@ScottJund Another nuance to this to avoid the frustrations you mentioned Scott about potential for "leaving" bloodpoints in the game due to how the match is playing out. If a Killer chooses to camp and 4-hooks a game, the variance between what would have been the remaining 8 hooks should be allocated to the survivors (upon a Killer depip).
In essence -
If a Killer player decides to not play the game as intended, and proceeds to depip, the remaining potential bloodpoints can be awarded to the survivors divisible by how many remain in the match. This can be mathematically assessed to which it would effectively mitigate a depip by the survivors (protection) and punishment for the killer.
@@ScottJund Its incredibly difficult to truly know without a method of experimenting with the hypotheticals. without experimentation, they are just that. Hypotheticals. With the infrequency of tests regarding these kind of things from BHVR, its unlikely we'll ever see these ideas implemented.
@@3xpression296 "If a Killer player decides to not play the game as intended" There is no intended way to play killer or survivor, you only have goal(s). As survivor: finish gens and escape and killer is simply to kill people.
Survivor should get more BP per action but I don't think we need to complicate things in that regard.
@@3xpression296 ain’t no “intended way” to play killer
"We've tried nothing and we're out of ideas."- BHVR
We have been telling the devs these changes for the past 5 years now, they never listened and they never will. I gave up quite a while ago.
Init. I got so fed up i just slowly lowered my hours and eventually stopped playing 2 months ago. Been playing other online games and having a blast.
Exactly I feel like they will only listen if DBD isn’t getting enough money or player count drop hard
same last time i started this shitty game was about a year ago
but don't forget you got blood points
everything peeps have talked to the devs about are in the mobile version. Its like a complete overhaul.
The current state of DBD just makes me sad. It's not that the game has gotten worse over the years (it's definitely better than how it was in 2017), it's just that the devs seem to have completely stopped caring.
Ngl I go through phases where I play it for a week or 2 and then I get pissed off constantly getting fucked over by the game. The game freezes every time I try to M1 or use my power (same with survivor) the auto aim for killer makes my hits not register, field of view makes me dizzy etc and this isn't mentioning the balance.
It been like this ever since they took years to actually fix DS and them nerfing Billy for no reason
When big money rolls (skins, auric cells) devs stop caring because playerbase "eats" anything they receive
DBD has no competition
devs dont care about the insane grind It has, they make it worse
As long people keeps buying overpriced skins they dont care about performance (exploits, bugs, glitches)
3 weeks later since RE chapter and game runs like trash on consoles
To be honnest, 5 years working on the same game with only 1 game mode (2 if you count both sides as their own thing), I can understand that after half a decade you start to really get fed-up and want to move on making a different game. Specially when you have to deal with spaghetti code.
@@dearcastiel4667
This isn't really a defense, though. 5 years isn't a crazy long time to make a game with no reward, much less make a game with constant monetary gain. In fact, it's an *average* amount of time. By comparison, Behavior doesn't have a very cohesive excuse for literally not following through with their plans; by the way, a lot of the things that aren't fixed in this game were supposed to be fixed 2 years ago. Two. Just another nail in the coffin.
The devotion store should have killer power cosmetics. Such as red lightning for the doctor, blue puke for plague, a victor skin, a cool looking chainsaw, a different wraith bell. Things like that
This would be really nice, its ultimately harmless (except maybe trapper cos of darkened traps and whatnot) and would be nice to see, you could maybe make cool cosmetic sets cooler with fitting killer power skins
Also maybe have it so if you reach p3 you get the bloody version of a killers power if its applicable (like a bloody kanabo for oni, bloody Viktor, bloody chainsaw)
@@MothDax maybe traps could be in different shapes/designs rather than colors ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Underrated idea
@@gab1077 or have different sound effects when it closes on a survivor. But yeah if it gives an advantage it definitely wouldn’t be in the store. Or you could just argue it’s like a survivor wearing a dark skin
Bro something little like this would motivate the shit out of me to play the game more. I grind enough as it is just so I can p3 everyone but after that I know I will get bored again.
I get the feeling that Killer BP is still considerably higher than Survivor BP because they want to make sure there's as many killer players as possible. If that incentive is changed I think the killer playerbase would actually reduce, even if it was just slightly. I do like the idea of partial gains for objective if you've run the killer for x gens though.
I've personally noticed that the reason why survivor BP is lower is because it's harder to get WGLF stacks compared to B&C. Simply because you're competing for the unhook or pallet save.
100%. A huge incentive for me to main killer is queue times and bp. Without that I wouldn't. Survivor is so much easier so there'd be no competition.
@@Deemel_ yea for sure, WGLF is (mostly) counterproductive for the survivor side because it causes too much altruism, whereas BBQ for killers gets you to hook evenly, which not only working toward your objective as a killer but also incentivising you to play in a way that makes the game more fun
Honestly, playing Survivor and Killer is like playing two entirely different games. I don’t mind Killers earning more, especially considering how much more stressful it is to play Killer at high ranks, let alone when the current player base is so unevenly split.
We need more Killers, not less.
I feel like Killer deserve the high BP because your BPs are derived from YOUR actions alone. Survivors get so much BP from "Coop" actions and other sources that are just not due to their own effort and are literally "free BP".
Also, lets be real: most survivors get low BP games because they're somewhat "bad" and inefficient. There's always that one guy with 25K+ that carries the rest. I do think there's still space for a buff on survivor BP, though. But I also fear that if you add too many sources that aren't derived from your own actions, you'll completely fuck the game by incentivizing people to be even more useless.
This actually made me kinda sad because there are so many good ideas here that will never happen
right? Like the endgame collapse thing seems like a really big change but i can´t help but feel it would be hella cool as a gamemode or such.
“We have heard your cries and want to take immediate action. There are glaring flaws that we need to fix and we have ignored you for too long. The community has given great suggestions and we’d like to take the time to thank you. We will start by nerfing the pig”
-Some dev probably
“Lets nerf dwight”
"We heard you all loud and clear. Clown will no longer have his purple bottles"
Pig does not need to be nerfed. If anything a few tweaks could be made to the traps to make them more fair on both sides, but otherwise she’s good where she is.
@@amethystrose3480 They were being ironic about how little the devs know about their own game.
@@mrgotmilk7238 I’m just stating something I’ve always wanted to say. Pig is probably my favorite killer when I just want to have fun on a bad day and watch survivors scramble to keep their heads from popping like a grape
Problem: Scoot Joond won’t play Hawkins
Solution: Give Scoot Joond and only Scoot Joond bonus BP to play Hawkins
Alternative Solution: Lose Hawkins entirely
Rip Hawkins
I’d honestly be perfectly happy if they delayed releasing a new killer for 3 months if they just spent the time fixing the game and implementing a lot of these changes
exactly but they don’t use their smol brain
This is BHVR we're talking about, I think they'd need a lot longer than 3 months :).
BUT if they rush it the money comes faster :)
At the same time there are these annoying players who contantly want new stuff released.
They have a Bot Mode in the Moble version and it gives you points. you can even try new killers, perk load outs, and practice. You can even set the bots different skill levels and set them to have them set their own perk load outs. When you are in a lobby it, wait times is very low, bots fill, and bots play really good. I have watched bots loop human players, flashlight human players. and etc. Bot killers are really good too. They even try to counter your loops. You try to go to Killer shack and loop it leaves because it knows what you are going to do and wastes its time. I dont understand why this is in mobile when it should be on all platforms.
"I dont understand why this is in mobile when it should be on all platforms."
Different (AKA *better*) dev team.
@@ManlyOBeeferton I dont get it either. It baffles me as well. I have improved my killer and survivor skills on mobile for pc than on pc. There are 2 blood webs Survivor Blood Web and Killer Blood Web. Both blood webs cater to Killers and Survivors all survivors share add-ons and sac's. Killers share all common sac's. They its more of a store with Killers. You need more Billy add-ons then buy billy. Need Plague add-ons then buy plague. This is all in the same web. GET THIS. They have different sacrafices as well. you can spawn the hatch. Killer can CANCEL the survivor HATCH SPAWN at main building and SPAWN IT at killer shack for fucking camp and shut. You can get XP sacrafices to level up your killer for more perks and choose the perks they offer for every level you killer levels up. Its like this is like a complete overhaul of the fucking game and a way better game imo.
i think it's just that the devs for mobile are 100% code wheras main company has to do art, get ips, design kits etc.
this means mobile devs can try more unique ideas
it might be easier to do on mobile. Or behavior is just incompetent which they are so you never know
You cant fill out perks for the bots, unfortunately. And custom mode doesn’t give you blood points or experience anymore. It’s annoying because real queue times are so long so I just play against bots because I like to join a game immediately and play and leave.
Please, wake me up when the devs care
You want to sleep forever? Have a good nap for eternity my friend.
This man dying
See you next century bud
As long as theres no competition for the game, they wont start trying harder, cause they have no reason to do so. Unlucky. All the "serious" players ask for are quality of life changes.
Exactly, hopefully the F13 lawsuit can wrap up so they can continue working on that game so DbD can have some competition
Why does DBD Mobile have a Queue Time indicator and the Main Game doesn’t?
Different devs
@Miguel Macêdo ...so the free game has more shit then the game I payed for?
Because the mobile devs are using their brains….. for now.
@@boredguy5271 yes actually. It’s pretty bad, the devs are pretty incompetent when it comes to performance/stability. They added new pallet animations when breaking them when no one asked for that, just something extra that wasn’t necessary and ended up making pallets invisible. Just incompetence.
@@boredguy5271 the Mobile version for some of the Wwe2k games. Actually had more and better content than the console or PC versions as well, for example. A lot of entrances are a little more detailed.
"We are so sorry but we cant fix the game, here 150k bloodpoints for you"
"... and we nerfed Pig again."
True
@@democlezz according to statistics, nurse has the lowest winrate, so we decided to give her 5 blinks without recharge base kit
As a pig main who sucks regardless as killer, I felt that.
Pig neeeds more attention
30 minutes of Scott Jund?? Hell yeah!
Y’all probably cream y’all pants when he boots up the live stream.
Simp
@@Andretti2Tone your God damn right.
Right, if only he wasn't such a duck
You can have 2 minutes of me, if you want ;)
24:05 I almost never run meta perks and I really dislike the fact that "you probably have bt / ds anyway" is being used as an excuse for very unnecessary tunneling before the gates are even close to being powered. It's also a frequent occurrence that if I get tunneled off of 1st hook the killer will try hard to tunnel me off of second hook (including instant pick up) as well since he knows there's no bt or ds. Punishments for tunneling/camping and rewards for getting lots of hooks (revamped pipping system) sound like a great idea.
Leaving me on the ground for ages just to down me again once I finally get picked up is also not much better than hooking again instantly since being slugged or on the hook is basically as good as not playing the game at all, I see that slugging can be beneficial to winning a match but it's a really shit experience for the other side if a decent portion of the game consists of this.
You shouldnt have to spend a perk slot on countering a shitty situation. That basically forces you to run DS, Unbreakabe, BT and Camaraderie every match.
"I don't know how they'd queue you in a training mode while waiting for a match" fighting games have been doing this for like, a decade
Also Call of duty AW had a thing like this too where you can go into a shooting range while in a lobby
Doesn't OW do it to an extent, too?
I think he wasn't saying it is impossible, but rather that the devs are too incompetent to know how to do it
@@amaterasu3099 i assumed he meant this as well
@@amaterasu3099 in that case why have the discussion in the first place
Prove thyself needs to be like We're gonna live forever but with this mechanic:
Everytime you finish a coperative action (healing or repairing) you gain a token that gives you more bloodpoints
It gives you more blood points already doesn’t it?
@@Promethe3u5 it just lets you reach the cap faster but doesn't increase it, with we're gonna live forever it gives you bonus bloodpoints increasing that cap
@@Promethe3u5 no, it just allows you to reach max faster, but it doesn't work like wglf which works to give you more bp like streamers do.
Ohhhh. Sorry I misread that.
@@Promethe3u5 Since it's rewarded in-trial it doesn't make much difference since there's a cap.
What they mean is:
you do cooperative action
gain tokens
each token grants a stackable bonus ALL bloodpoint gains post-trial
just like WGLF.
I have no clue why they don’t do the same daily quest system as they have on mobile. Mobile gives over half a dozen small challenges every day for shards, bp, and like 5-10 auric cells and also gives longer weekly quests that give even more currency.
I always thought something that shows dedication or skill to a degree would be earning killer based changes aka oni's aura that is red when he goes berserk, you could earn different colors through how many downs you have gotten while in that form like 1000 downs through berserk = blue aura, and such things like that same for blights rush but only downs with lethal rush, mainly to give back to players with dedication
Oh wow. That would be really cool imo
Blue could make the killers aura blend in easier with the environment. Red stands out easily but on some of the darker maps with semi blue hues to the lighting it could hide the killers aura better than the red stain.
Bloodharvest actually had a small "Testing area" while searching for a match.
Deathgarden was just a better game, and it died solely because it didn't have Leatherface, Myers, etc.
It's tragic, deathgarden was really fun. Shame that the game did shutdown.
God, I fucking loved Deathgarden. The chase mechanics in that game were really interesting, focusing more on juking and climbing around structures and foliage to break line of sight and lose the killer. It really does suck that it got shut down, they needed to market it to people outside of the DbD playerbase.
Deathgarden was a fun game till end (just played the game for 2 hours and had fun with it)
@@sleeplessCC exactly! and fighting games like street fighter and tekken let you search for games while training. people stop giving the devs excuses that they haven't even made themselves
I thought the new bot mode would be a “test killer stuff” kind of mode
My biggest hope is now that they have bot matches I hope they add the ability to actually pick character/loadout for those matches, because playing no addon trapper won't help my aim with Deathslinger, Huntress or Trickster XD
Haha fuck, now that you said it I started to think about this.
I agree with this heavily. I was chatting to my own dbd group about the training mode with other killers whether you have them unlocked or not to test them out and such as it helps get better with skill and such but also gives others the ability to play s killer and decide if they want to purchase them or not
@@jackthejolteon2658 I reeeeeally wish they didn't get rid of the Splinter offerings. They gave people a chance to test out DLC killers so that they could see if they liked them..though maybe they got rid of them because they didn't want people finding out they didn't like a killer before purchasing them..
@@ManlyOBeeferton i remember that offering from a long time ago. Was the offering that gave me my ultra rare offering trophy lol. And i agree. But the Tutorial mode would be a good addition in replace of the splinters
@@jackthejolteon2658 I got a few cheeky trophies with the offerings too :). Yeah it'd be a worthy replacement.
"So sorry you guys feel this way! Please shut up and take our bloodpoints." -BHVR
"hey devs we would love to see some changes to the game" Devs- hehe pallet go shakey now
Day 9 of asking Scott to demojam for a video
at this point i am certain the rocko's modern life shirt has become a part of scott's skin
I like how he said he was not going to read the whole thing and that is exactly what he did, but by golly am I happy he did, this was a great vid!
A concept for a time limit in the game to discourage hiding would be having a timer before daylight approaches. That way, it would fit the title "Dead by Daylight" and force every survivor to participate otherwise they melt or burn into a crisp when daylight approaches. Killers don't have to go out of their way to find blendettes and survivors would be punished for wasting their time hiding all game.
There's another side to that coin. Killers (hag, trapper) who refuse to chase outside of a 3 genned area. What am I going to do as a survivor when I get in a chase and as soon as I get 10 steps away from the gen they stop chasing me? The 3 gen on some maps is INSANE. Literally a 3 second walk from one gen to another to another. There is nothing survivors can do against that.
@@reeepingk The point of having the timer is to end the game rather than holding it hostage. Yes, there are three gens on some maps are insane and that is the map design fault, there's not much to do against it but it at least ensures a victory to the killer rather than a long stalemate. Situations where a three gen results in a very long match are also very rare so it is not likely the situation you described will happen but I have had games which took around half an hour to finish because my teammates just gave up going against a three gen.
In that permadeath mode, instead of an insta escape, maybe make the gates open, so the survivor still have to go the gate, but still have to be good at looping and resource management
I was wondering if you were gonna go over this lol
I was about to read this today, glad you uploaded before I started
"if we changed the win condition from escaping to getting blood points..."
-slams fist on desk
Yes!!! Yes please!!!
I know they probably wont address or fix issues stated in these types of videos which is why I dont complain if they dont but I do enjoy these types of videos its fun hearing what ideas the community can think of to help this game.
I reeeally like that end game 1v1 thing. Not even cause its a 'solution' it just sounds like a really fun thing to slap onto the end of a match
In regards to the basement thing. I think a good two sided solution would be to have a portal in the basement that is linked to the stairs the basement didn’t spawn at. It gives cross-map mobility to low mobility killers and gives the basement a second entrance letting survivors get saves or access basement chest easier.
Imagine going into basement and some claudette goes and does a Platform 9¾ play.
I always thought since they added the Emblems that the Bloodpoint system was always better. It always felt so cheap getting around 30,000 points as killer but all 4 of them escape so the Entity is displeased. Assuming I played a non-meta killer and played as fair as possible, it's so so very hard to kill everyone in that situation and with the Bloodpoint system you get rewarded for playing like that.
Though I still think this document doesn't address the issue of the lack of a defined Win Condition for both sides, and is probably the biggest thing keeping DBD from going in a better direction. Other games work around their win condition, it makes it easier to balance because if you're too good at completing the win con you're nerfed and if you're not good enough you're buffed.
I think its a bit hard to define a win in this game(the community can't even agree). For killer you could probably just say a 3k is a win because you got most of them or you could go by the number of total hooks(Again the community has basically started WW3 over this exact idea). For survivor it could also just be 3 escaping but that's only from a team perspective. As a solo survivor I would care more about escaping myself over my teammates in general. Meaning that a win for a solo survivor is escaping.
Issue is that what really matters is what the person playing feels about the game. Does it feel like a win when they hit certain conditions? Does a killer feel good after a 4 man SWF has bullied him the whole game even if he got 3 of them? Does a survivor feel like they've won after they get tunneled/camped the whole game and their 3 teammates get out as a result? Again the community is going to be split on this no matter where it lies and that means that even if the devs defined it all we would see if complaining as a result. As with most things in this game it's kinda a lose/lose situation.
@@Raycu2 That's just why Behavior need to come up with what a "Win" is in Dead by Daylight. I don't know what a win is. I know what a win "feels" like when I'm in game, if I get a 3k then I don't feel like I lost but then I also don't want to sweat to get the 4k. Likewise as survivor. I could say I "won" if I survive, but then if everyone else dies for it is that really a win?
It's cool to see what they've added so far from this list of suggestions. Would still like to see more of these be introduced, but baby steps lol
This makes me sad because this version of the game sounds so fun, and I just know BHVR will never make any of this happen . . .
for the 2 minute hatch standoff suggestion, they should just give the survivor a weapon and the killer a healthbar and let them duke it out instead of your average chase
I would love to see Meg battering the Oni with a plank of wood.
@@clobby9553 Claudette sneaking behind ghostface/pig and bashing them with the rock.
If they go against a Deathslinger during this collapse, the survivor can get their own gun and have an ol' fashion duel.
@@getthatcat520 if deathslinger's menu theme doesn't play during this, i'm uninstalling.
It would be cool if at the end of it the entity came up and took out the killer instead of the survivor, as like a "you have failed me" type of deal.
Prestige should remove "wreath's" and similar things from the bloodweb entirely, instead replacing them with "envelope" type items that do 25% at brown, 50 at yellow, 75 at green. Delete the current envelope and hollow shell, replacing them with the good version
The "Sudden death" is incredible dumb in a game with god pallets, infinity loops, and places like the Hell House in Haddon Field.
Badham Preschool maps have a notorious house as well where it's the one with the boiler room basement. I've seen vids of really good loopers and god damn son lol.
14:30 That’s something I already do. I didn’t realize that wasn’t like common behavior for other survivors. If the match is almost over and I don’t think I’m gonna have enough points to pip I will naturally start looking for things that I can do to up my numbers like sabotaging hooks, opening chests, opening the gates, and doing totems. It does put me at a higher risk for a killer to come find me but that’s a calculated risk I chose. I’m more likely to go back for a person while standing in the exit gates and they’re on a hook because I don’t think I’m going to pip.
I do however wish that there was a bar that I could pull out or side scroll that would show me how much progress I got in the different categories that way I would know which category I need to aim for more. I hate when I get to the end screen and I’m just like a fraction of a point away from getting an iridescent boldness emblem. My average is about 17,000 points and one pip with a broken controller.
Yeah, I thoroughly disagree with the "escaping = safety pip, otherwise depip". That just leads right back into one of the game's original problems, which was fucking selfish teammates immersing themselves and taking hatch or immediately opening the exit gates and leaving.
We do NOT want to encourage that type of behavior again. The way the game is modeled should be to encourage cooperation and altruistic play, to HELP your teammates so they don't have a miserable experience.
How to fix camping and tunneling: Draw more inspiration from Pyramid's cage mechanic. Maybe the killer performs a quick 3-5 second ritual to have the entity come and swallow up a survivor, who then gets placed onto a random hook on the map, which is not revealed to the killer for a set period of time (to incentivize survivors to unhook), but will be revealed after that time (make survivors gamble using the hook time to focus on gens instead of saving right away).
The basement teleporter locker idea is too convoluted. Just make more ways to get in and out of the basement, instead of being a one stairway entrance/exit death trap. Definitely agree with Scott on that one.
i'm just here so i can listen to scott talk for 30 minutes
I like these longer talking videos, could listen to you for hours. Especially since I usually find myself agreeing with a lot you say.
I love the BP pip system. My idea for values:
15k - safety pip
25k - single pip
31k - double pip
Perhaps 20k safety pip for killer as it’s really not hard to get 20k even when doing pretty badly.
Also the killer solo KYF is a MUST!!!
Edit:
As a solo Q buff - built in kindred MINUS being able to see the killer. So when a survivor is on the hook in solo Q the survivors can see each other.
I have just given up on the game, i have been playing on console since 2017 spent 2.4k hours on this game and it's not that the gameplay has burned me out and stopped me from playing it's the state of the game.
We have massive issues with optimization, none stop bugs, poor balancing decisions and what often feels like a lack of care in that aspect, and more and more of this games greed keeps becoming apparent. Yes i know they need to make money but just look at how much people spend on dlc's not to mention cosmetics and every update so little gets done and if that's from either the devs not caring and putting little effort or they simply have to put THAT much resources to prevent the game from falling apart when things change or maybe even both doesn't matter both of these are issues.
I will see how the next "optimization" update feels like and even if it's good i probably won't stay with this game for long. We deserve better game performance as well as more care and thoughts from the devs when it comes to balancing decisions.
@Nemmy Wemmy He is 100% right, don't talk for saying dumbshit
You have played on console since 2017 and yet NOW you feel the state of the game is bad? ... do you even remember the queue times in old console dbd? jesus people will always have complaints. The devs are far from perfect but man do they deserve credit for improving a lot of bs that happened in the past - people take things for granted.
@@CrimsonHeart3 The game was absolutely fucking atrocious back then. It has improved, but it's still fucking bad. Scott even mentioned in the vid that they've repeatedly said they'd implement changes (some of them very basic), and yet they haven't.
And most recently, they had the new chapter in the PTB and they *still* didn't realise the fuckup with RPD and the constant stuttering on console before officially releasing it.
Why wouldn't they add a devotion shop it would encourage more people to play longer
Because it doesnt bring them money
They wont do the bots idea with BP earning because how will those deranking teams bully totally new players with killers they never played before and even practised?
if the game allowed you to see your bp gain mid game then you could put yourself into situations to get more bp. if you have been sitting on gens and only have 10k bp then you could go try to get into a chase or heal another survivor and vice versa.
How to fix DBD step 1 proper optimization for all platforms.
This game is getting worse every killer they add and it's mind boggling how after demo was released every killer just turned into amazing chase, bad pressure. I hate that they think hillbilly is broken so they nerf him but keep spirit broken which is arguably the easiest killer in the game. At this point they should just open up custom servers like a valve game with maps and all and just let us play how we want alongside the current game. The devs will never fix this once golden idea for a game and just keep putting it further in the hole while people just eat up their half baked dlcs.
Thing about removing perk tiers is that it also opens up design space. With tiers in place each perk needs some kind of number that increases with tiers. Without tiers we could have effects that are entirely new without having numbers attached to them (there can still be numbers but there wouldn't *have* to be).
I think the 'sudden death' mode is a good idea with a few tweaks:
Replace the hatch searching game of "who finds the hatch first :P" with a 45 (or some decently long) timer that starts when the last survivor dies. Killer sees survivor aura, and at the end of that timer, the hatch opens.
This idea would still need some fleshing out, but this is just an alpha consept.
Also, I would just get rid of basements altogether. They are outdated and are either extremely weak or strong for killers to use.
What do u mean "fix dead by daylight?" The game is the pinnacle of balance and perfection
The solutions are good but most of them relies mostly on extra Bloodpoints which are worthless to veterans players like us.
But what about iri shards? Huh?
@@justgeralt7762 then they wouldn’t be getting any money since you can just buy it for free
@@justgeralt7762 iri shards are mostly useless for veteran players,cuz they probally have all characters of the game,so the extra shards are just for cosmetics,or if they want to wait long enough for another chapter that isn't licensed so they can spend their shards
Uhh I've been playing for 4 years now and extra bp is certainly not worthless. Getting p3 with all perks on every character(Surv/Killer) takes an absurd amount of bp and I'm willing to bet 99% of the community hasn't achieved that yet
@@umbrella1556 you basically explained in your own reply why iri shards aren't useless to veteran players lol cosmetics and new chapters
The idea that you had in another video where you said that looking for fuel cans for generator progress would be a cool idea!
As a survivor player, I like a lot of it. The only ones I do not agree with are:
1. "Sudden Death". Considering that most maps are just giant deadzones now, and killers with strong anti-chase powers are just an instant win.
It would literally incentivize playing killers like Spirit/Twins even more.
2. Hatch open animation. If there's only 1 survivor left, it should always be an instant open. Also, I really don't think keys are the problem. I'd be more for a change in the hatch spawn mechanic itself.
New Hatch Spawn Mechanic: The hatch will ONLY appear if there's only 1 survivor left OR all generators are completed.
- If there's only 1 survivor left, then it's fair game and should come down to who finds it first. Nobody will know where it is.
- If all gens are done, then as a killer you pretty much already lost and it's fair game at that point. Sure you can turn it around still, but it shouldn't be handed to you.
One suggestion for "sudden death" that I've read is that all killers should become 115% and have no power when it starts - this way it becomes as fair of a chase as possible
Id say 15-18k for bloodpoint pipping on surv side, and 20-25k for killer.
20K survivor, 25K killer, final offer.
They listened to the perk levels!
the option to choose what addons u want is a good thing imo the problem actually stems from those specific addons being too strong for the rarity they are, changing those to make them more relevant rarity or less overpowering would fix it. addons like billy engravings change his power in such a perfect way, making addons light blight speed addons reduce his slam duration or making alchemist ring an ultra rare would totaly fix them
About perk tiers. I think they should do what the early COD games did with their Pro Perks. So only tier 1 can be found in the Bloodweb, and each perk would have associated challenges that revolve around the use of the perk that would level it up on completion.
Objective completion like gens and saves should give some global BP (gens: moderate BP bonus, saves: small BP bonus) to all survivors, but obviously more for the ones completing them.
It would be better to just have one tier for prestige. Also, to give devotion a bit of a usage you could do that you require at least one level of devotion to be able to prestige any character.
No something me and my friend spitballed around for the camping problem was: if you are within a certain radius of the hooked survivor and people are not nearby, you gradually get blinded/slowed to root, and the effect does not wear off until you are away from the hook for a extended length of time or the survivor is off the hook.
Well then that just punishes the killer if a survivor is looping where the hooked person is.
It’s also a bad idea to implement because camping is a necessity if you want at least one kill. You aren’t going to leave the hook during endgame collapse with 4 survivors still left and one on the hook.
Scott!! My dude, I 100% agree with you on all of this.
I wish the devs would follow through on *anything* they say at this point.
Don't hide ping
Make store accessible during queue
Make prestige not worthless
Make devotion not worthless
Put in bots for DCs
All of these and more have been said by sooo many people so many times and it's like they don't even address it at all, even to say "sorry, we can't do it for such and such a reason" which makes the community feel neglected imo.
Re: camping, why not pause hook timer if you're camping in a certain range? Or make BT base kit to minimize tunneling?
I was thinking of adding a ability to survivors to gave up when they are last person on the ground so we don't have to wait 4m to bleed aut or DC and lose all bb and 5m ban because killer doesn't want to hook you
The only way any of us will ever play this version of dbd is in our dreams
I very much like a lot of Trickster's suggestions. And I do actually really like that idea of changing the end game after hatch is closed to a sort of sudden death. Currently it feels boring on both sides to me, pacing back and forth between doors looking for the last survivor, or hoping you can open the door quick enough before the killer walks back to that side, or just being screwed because the doors are right next to each other. Having it be some sort of forced interaction for the last survivor to get out kinda sounds fun.
8:39 This sentence sums up BHVR really well.
"They said they where gonna but didnt" its said how common this is
I think the survivor being facecamped should also get points from their teammates actions. Right now, being facecamped is a surefire way to depip and get 4k points. With this change, the survivor would be rewarded for sitting there the 2 minutes and at least get something out of the shit situation they were put on just because some guy decided to ruin the game for them.
Fairly easy to implement after the proposed chase code is there, just make it so if you're on the hook and the killer is within 16 meters for more than 10 seconds (cumulative) , you're getting points.
Instead of just doing skill checks, they could have the survivor do a little puzzle to try and stave off entity progression, like some kind of incantation that needs to be assembled.
One thing that I didn't see mentioned is that currently, the amount of BP one gets from a match is COMPLETELY determined by how long the match lasts. A short match, regardless if the survivors escape or get killed, results in low BP earnings for both killer and survivor. A long match, again, regardless if the survivors die or escape, result in high BP earnings. Furthermore, the emblem system does nothing but complicate this. It makes ZERO sense that I can get 22k BP in a match and BARELY safety or even DEPIP, (yes, I have depipped at 20k+ BP before), then the next game get 13k BP and almost pip of 15k and actually single pip.
This all ties into what he was saying at the beginning of the video with the "survivors should get BP for other survivor's actions if they're doing something useful."
It bothers me that one of the solutions was "making survivors seek out the killer" as I feel that goes against the spirit of the game. It is... technically.... a horror game. In horror games you... generally... want to avoid the killer. I feel "making survivors seek out the killer" is a bandaid for a larger problem (BP/pipping based on game length). Why would I, as a survivor, seek out the killer when someone on my team who is much better at looping is doing exactly that? Should it not fall to the killer to decide to find someone else? Is that not the killer's job? Why should the survivor be punished for bad decisions made by the killer (the decision being to chase the good looping survivor.) If I am a weak looping survivor, would I not ESSENTIALLY be feeding the killer hook states? And given the likely possibility of being camped if you DO get downed when the killer is losing, why on earth would I take that risk?
Most of these points have been pretty good, sympathise with almost every single one. Kinda hillarious that "Bloodpoints = Pip" , which was the original system, may turn out to be a better system than the one we currently have. Despite the bar being not that high in that context lol
But when it comes up to the Sudden Death Mode :
Make the amount and density of the pallets re-spawning dependant on who the Killer is. As you already said, set-up reliant Killers like Trapper and Hag won't be able to deliver the same 1v1 performance as a Spirit, Slinger or even Clown. Ofcourse a certain rng would still be involved due to how maps are built, but I think when the density and quantity of re-spawning pallets would be flexible and dependant on the Killer, it might turn out to become somewhat fair. This in addition with little things such as traps and pools dissapearing when the mode starts (to prevent pre-setting up and making the entire mode a meme against some Killers), may actually be a quite nice thing and make the entire hatch-thematic feel more fair in general. Just cause it'll be much more skill dependant than it used to be / is right now.
I think trickstershadow's idea on a sudden death after the hatch is closed isn't about "fairness" but rather just a more fun alternative. Just getting one final big chase in rather than playing the boring "walk between the doors" game as killer, and something that's actually fun as survivor. I honestly think that'd just be a good way to entirely replace the hatch imo since the hatch really just feels like a participation trophy. Then you'd also remove the slugging for the 4k thing too.
I hate the idea about Sudden Death. The killer should never be in a position where they won the match but have to race against a timer to catch their last prey in order to guarantee nobody escapes. I hated that in Deathgarden and I'd hate that in Dead by Daylight.
The issue with determining rank based on hooks is that it is entirely dependent on the survivors.
You could have every intention as killer to get everyone hooked three times but if someone dies on hook because three Claudettes are playing Jenga in the corner of the backwater swamp maps, what else can you do?
Hook based MMR could work in higher ranks but it could lead to issues in mid-low ranks where survivors are quite happy going about their day. Actually, even in higher ranks, survivors could intentionally decide to throw to mess with the killer’s ranking. I could definitely see it being a problem by helping stream-snipers mess with people’s games even more
The looping suggestion at the 28:00ish minute is a really good idea for a game mode, literally just make it 1v1 and best of 5 or something which shouldn’t be too difficult to create whilst not hampering queue times? Would be nice when you want to warm up, improve on a certain killer/looping or feeling tired of the regular game; could also throw in a mini ranking system and the odd challenge to make it interesting.
In regards to the in queue game mode Overwatch does this exact thing and isn’t that hard to achieve
Rocket League as well 🙌
How do you achieve it then genius?
@@dot7084 you queue in the back ground as a separate dedicated server is given to your group in the same way a custom is this then closes when you find a game
@@savagebritt3 hey I mean you told me how. Propz
I believe that the exit gates should start regressing when they aren’t being actively opened
EGC was a big update and was supposed to change the game, but these days I feel like I rarely ever see it. 99’ing the exit gates is a cheap strategy used to completely ignore the pressure the EGC is supposed to add. If the exit gates have not been interacted with for a certain period of time (example: 5 seconds) they should start regressing at the same rate they go up. Either open the gates or don’t.
You said something to the effect of "I don't think there is a good way to reduce camping and tunneling"
I disagree. The first is EASILY solved with a harsher/modified "around the hook" penalty. First off, the penalty does not have a definite cut off. Think of the penalty as a counter. If you're really close to the hook, the counter counts very quickly. If you're a bit further away, it counts more slowly. This is to counter killers who will just stand outside the "range" of the penalty.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, this penalty is completely negated when the killer is in a chase. If the killer is in a chase, this penalty stops counting. It also doesn't START counting until say... 5 seconds after the player is hooked (to give killers enough time to break nearby pallets, reload, etc.)
Furthermore, what this counter should ACTUALLY be, is a % of the BP or total emblem progression. So basically, if you spend a lot of time around the hook, you'll only get X% of your BP/emblem points. If you spend TOO much time around the hook, you'll eventually get 0% of the points, meaning they're forced to depip.
Secondly, there should be a BONUS for finding and chasing someone new when someone is hooked. Incentivize good behavior, penalize bad behavior.
What this does is two fold. One, it penalizes campers. Strictly campers. You won't get knocked down from 100% of your BP until you spend say.... 30 seconds near a hook without being in a chase. That number can obviously be adjusted (and should depend on the number of hooks in the game/length of game, easily done with a simple equation.) Secondly, it gives killers an incentive to GO FIND SOMEONE ELSE. With this type of system, there would be zero reason to actually spend time around a hook when someone is hooked.
As an additional thing, to combat killers abusing this system to derank, there should be a hidden "camping counter" in the background that persists through games. If the killer reaches the highest tier of camping two games in a row.... 5 minute ban. If they do it the game they come back, 10 minute ban. Etc. Penalize the habitual campers. They make the game unfun for everyone. Yes, we're well aware it works. MAKE IT NOT WORK.
You could even throw in a gen speed progression bonus when the killer is camping. If the killer wants to end the game early by bypassing intended game mechanics (chases, healing, unhooking) then let the survivors end the game quicker. Obviously the survivors would get BP bonuses during this time so they don't all depip (almost an inevitability with a facecamping killer.)
So that's camping. It sounds complicated but it really isn't. It's a progressive penalty that increases faster the closer they are to the hook that can eventually end in forced depip for the killer. Simple as that.
Tunneling is also easy. There are exactly zero perks that successfully counter tunneling. A survivor can get BT, have DS, and that still does nothing. The killer can tunnel straight through all of that and down the survivor in 30 seconds. This results in that survivor (and likely others) depipping because they have no other points other than gens. Killer mains will say "oh well survivors should try to take hits and protect their friends." But that's stupid. You're rewarding the killer for tunneling by GIVING them health states. Furthermore, this doesn't even work 90% of the time. The killer will just ignore you trying to take hits. Simple solution. Buff DS. 15 second stun. The survivor leaves no blood trails or scratchmarks during these 15 seconds. I think the new DS is still good (it turns off if the survivor does anything), but just make the stun long enough for survivors to get away. A 15 second stun is significant, and the survivor can be on the other side of the map before it finishes. Make killers AFRAID of DS, instead of it just being "oh I'll just keep chasing them after they DS me because they're still in my line of sight or I can easily just follow blood/scratchmarks." Lastly, the DS timer does NOT go down while someone is on the ground. This will combat slugging people who were just unhooked.
Personally I believe all unhooked survivors should have a 5 second DS timer (as base kit, without having to bring a perk) that doesn't go down so long as they are in chase/slugged, but most people would probably say that's too far.
There are few exceptions to these rules, with nearly all of them coming when there are only 1-2 survivors left.
Possible idea: When a killer hooks a survivor, all other survivors get a small debuff to repair speed(1%-5% depending on balance) until they are unhooked, or all gens regress 5% and pauses progress for 3 seconds(but don’t continue to regress).
But simultaneously survivors gain a small 1%-2% run speed boost per hooked survivor. This can incentivize survivors to Stop doing gems are go for saves as doing gens would be slightly slower and going for the save would be faster than normal.
The debuff to survivors could help reduce the need for pop goes the weasel, and with it could slightly need to to 20% as the 5% would already be incorporated. The buff would help incentivize players to run for the save as they would be traversing the map (seemingly) faster than normal, but in the end it would only save a few seconds but players willl be more eager to do things if they seem like they do it faster *cough* Spine Chill *cough*. Just a thought
I want a different animation for my final hook... Nothing in the auditory department that can fuck up the killer audio in anyway...
Also the point made at 12:50 is so true in a lot of my matches as killer or survivor. You can get hammered down, b ut somehow people either start to play stupid or they start looking for extra bloodpoints when there's 1 gen left.
I was playing killer against the CPU survivors. I wanted to see if hatch rng was dependent on certain conditions so I left the last survivor on the ground. Since he was a CPU the hatch system would’ve just given them the hatch right at their location. I was right, hatch did appear directly next to them but I might need to have a second match prove that my theory was right.
I thought that the hatches position is determined before player load into the map, because there was a bug where bubba and blight would either tantrum or go into cool down if they went over the invisible hatch
That could still be the case, although I could’ve sworn I ran over it with Hillbilly’s chainsaw once & it didn’t react...
Love the Survivor bp idea but Id still like to see more ways to earn Survival Bloodpoints. As it currently stands this is basically impossible to cap out on reliably unless you're the obsession.
That sudden death thing, I can think of one thing and I think that would make this fair and fun for both sides. The survivor side of it is fine I think, maybe just make sure that “god pallets” don’t respawn so that way they can choose to either save them for later if this happens or to use it then before and risk being without a big defense in the end. The killer part is trickier because of insta down killers, high mobility, and ranged killers. Here’s what I say. Make it so when this commences the killers power itself is deactivated like perks are in a way and the killer automatically becomes a normal base kit killer with 32 meter terror radius 115% killer. That way no matter who they play as everyone has an equal chance on both sides. This idea is both cool and sounds like a lot of fun, and I would hope something like this could be done in the future because EGC is a bit dirty on the survivor side sometimes.
i mean this whole game is one big grind, and i stopped playing because of it
yep and after that big grind you get rewarded with essentially nothing
i think babysitter base kit would genuinely help a lot with tunneling - it's a pretty under-utilised perk anyway, and having the aura of the unhooker be revealed while scratches and blood disappear for the one unhooked would make tunneling so much more difficult. When it comes down to it practically, you're generally gonna automatically start going for someone if you can see their aura for an extended period of time, this would also help for those situations where you accidentally tunnel because both survivors look the same or the unhooker hides somewhere.
My prove thyself rework would be if you’re the first person hooked in a match and there’s still more than 3 generators left then it’d have its current power and always have the bp bonus. This forces survivors to group up and play suboptimally throughout the early part of the game to group up while also having an early hooked state
On the idea to have an instant kill mode during hatch game. When the killer closes hatch, you loop the killer and you win when to get the escape. I think this will be balanced if the timer is up and instead of winning. The hatch reopens. The killer can go back and close it, resulting hatch being permanently close but the survivor could make distance to open the gate. So you feel rewarded for your chase. If the killer doesn't close hatch then you get rewarded for a good chase if you could get to hatch.
is there a way I can read the document myself?
It's on Trickstershaow Twitter
Took a while but I found it:
t.co/jBJmQIFqXD
Ok but what the hell is happening? Are the devs being overwhelmed or do they literally not give a fuck? I will legitimately stop supporting the game if the devs have just become complacent and couldn’t care about the insane amount of bugs in the game
Fixing bugs doesn't make them money, adding DLC does. Plus, they have no incentive to fix bugs because there's no other game competing with them
Pausing the video at 13:00 to make a quick comment. I already do this as survivor. If I find my team only has given up a hook or two or none, and there is just one Gen left, I stop whatever I am doing get in a fast chase and get hooked to force the altruism and more chases. I do this because for starters, I don’t want killers to not have fun. Secondly I also want killers to get good practice and be challenged. If my team slams the gens and the killer loses the whole match in one bad chase he’s not going to learn a lot and won’t be a better killer in the next lobby. In fact, what’s more likely is he will be bitter and toxic in his next lobby and develop horrible play habits. I know most survivor lobbies don’t do what I do because I also play killer and it’s been my experience as killer that most survivors for some reason think slamming 5 gens and teabagging at the exit gates is the only objective of the game and they are super excited to just get 13k points in a game where they escaped. I already measure the success of the game on either side by how many blood points was scored, and to this end I feel like both sides can actually win. I have definitely been killed and scored over 20k BPs and felt great about it, and I have had 4 people escape me as killer but I got over 30k BPs and felt great about it.
One of the things that attracted me to this game when I first started is I had a buddy who played Clown, and I would watch him stream, and he would often get a 3 escape or 4 escape game, and I would console him about the tough loss, but he would always be super positive and say stuff like “look we all scored a ton of BPs it was a good game for everyone” like he played to kill them but his metric for success was simply reward for being active. I would joke to him that it’s not a coop game! I was confused a bit at first but then kinda bought into it, it helped me get over being salty at toxic SWFs for sure.
Anyways, a lot of the changes being suggested are actually ones you can just implement without BeHavior having to bake it in with coding. I see a lot of top survivor streamers do this already. If the killer is good they play objective focused, and if the killer is demonstrably bad they slow down on gens and cleanse totems and sabotage hooks and go for flashlight saves etc for more points. It’s just that the community has chosen to focus on certain metrics to be the win condition priority in a really unhealthy way. Both sides are entitled as all hell, but something about a salty killer raging in the end game because he didn’t get any kills against us sweaty survivors when he got 8 hooks and 32k bps makes me lose faith in humanity.
Mmm yes, another fellow "actually wanting to make the game/match fun" player. How's your day been? Mine's been great
I really like your take on the bloodpoint pip system returning and the strictness scaling with rank, I do have one argument to make to that though, if you bottleneck survivors into forcing interaction with the killer (by this I mean actively following them or creating a noise notification, anything to attract their attention) you ruin the essence of perks, diverse playstyles and you enforce a singular playstyle which would be the only way to progress your skill level, allow me to explain.
Stealth perks, or perks which alert players to the killer's actions, motives would be pointless. Whilst you could currently say that playstyle is kinda irrelevant anyway, people do use spine chill, they urban evade around the map or they make use of a key to monitor the killer. If you forced survivors to chase after the killer in order to PIP, you disable an entire genre of playing. Looping the killer is fun and sure, it can make for some good laughs, but I personally (might not apply to everybody) have had equally as much fun watching a killer freak the fuck out because I keep hitting them with Red Herring, or using Spine Chill to remain undetected, both of which may not per say interact WITH the killer, however they consume the killers time, resources, and allow my team mates to safely unhook, heal or do generators. As such, it creates a situation similar to being chased, if I am using my perks, my skill and my wit to evade the killer, isn't that the same as being in a chase? It's food for thought, and I'd hate to be in a situation where I can't escape, or progress the game forward because I haven't been chased, yet he's come to 3 gens I've worked on and not found me once.
The solution I offer isn't original, but I kinda hope people might read this little spiel and come to understand that for some people, Dead by Daylight isn't just about running a killer around a pallet, and pressing space when it's most applicable. Anyway, my solution is to have a 'milestone' system that would provide survivors bloodpoints on escaping. For example one could be, "Unharmed: Escape a trial without being damaged, healed or unhooked", another could be "Undiscovered: Remain within a 20 metres of a killer undetected for a total of _ minutes". These ideas probably aren't solid, and there's possibly more aspects of the game which may be denied or restricted because of the fact that "my team mate is so good, and even though we've supported him by completing generators and progressing the game so that he can escape (and I personally feel like escaping or atleast taking actions that allow teammates to escape like a lot of generators or whatever should be valued) I still need to risk my life to earn some points or else I haven't done enough? So those 3 generators and cleansing ruin weren't good enough for my team mates?
Thank you whoever for reading, I appreciate it and please correct me, offer more or do really anything. I'm forever grateful for the content Scott and I wish everybody a good and happy day! :)
Not sure if it was mentioned in the document, but TricksterShadow did say on stream that survivors should always safety pip from escaping. So players wouldn't be punished for having unconventional play styles that don't involve chases as long as they do enough actions to gain bp or escape. Not to mention, category bloodpoints being uncapped would mean you can pip solely from doing a lot of actions in one category and not have to force yourself into chases
How to fix dead by daylight? Delete haddonfield
*rework
@@headrush8535 no
Delete any map that isn’t coal tower
@@headrush8535 it was reworked but they hardly made it better lol.
@@yeahhbuddy3932 indeed, they need to delete this map, find the people who were responsible for it and behead them
Oh wow I remember watching him when he was smaller on twitch few years ago…now Scott is covering something he did, neat
I really like the end game chase sequence that would be awesome it would make endgame fun for both killer and survivor.
I don't agree with closing the hatch being killer sided, I feel like every time I've closed it, the last survivor still opens the gate and escapes. most killers don't have the mobility to watch 2 exit gates on the opposite sides of the map at the same.