Are CINEMA CAMERA'S Pointless in 2021?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
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Is the gap closing?
Absolutely yes!🔥
Especially when pairing a camera with an external recording monitor. Unlimited record times lots of extra features!
the gap is closing fast.....FX3 and the 7SIII is doing even great options as the cinema cams are doing. Watched Amondo's FX3 set up and that was so sick already...So the choice is indeed in what you want to see and Mirrorless cams are doing the most these day...Love your work Pete, can't wait to see ur next go to cam...😁🤘🏽
Yes Sir 🙌
Yeah I think so ☝🏽 would still like a Red though 🤭
cinema cameras are for cinema shooting. imagine that :) when movie makes 100 millions, price of camera is not a big deal. real problem is when youtuber that have ton of money thinks that he needs red 8k camera and zeiss master primes lenses for room vlogs
lol the people that do that crack me up.
This.
@@chrisw5742 It's overkill, but it doesn't hurt.
True
Actually the majority of production studios rent
It’s all about scale. In the beginning stay lean and nimble. Don’t let anything get in the way of making content quickly. Once you have a team, you can start getting into the bigger cameras. Don’t bite off more than you can chew.
Two words: Dynamic Range. That is the reason that I continue to grab a cinema camera. I shoot a majority of my projects outdoors and being to capture the full spectrum of light (or as much as possible) makes a huge difference.
how many stops does it have?
Also 12-bit color is something I aspire to
Guys, not only that: built in nd filters, built in cooling system, xlr audio inputs, time code... etc. etc.
My c100 mark ii is 12 stops in log but I think a lot of mirrorless have that nowadays as well.
It may make a difference to you, a person who is into cameras, but the general population does not notice or care one single bit. Save your money.
Watching from Uganda.. You're inspiring many here in my country.. It's your name they talk about 🇺🇬
gyebale ko ssebo
@@moseslatigoodida8465 kale ssebo.. nawe jyebale
There's something incredibly energizing about someone who gets this passionate and excited about something. I could listen to you get excited about chemex and lighting and details of anything for hours and feel like it was time well spent.
SOLID points bro. Hence why I sold my scarlet. The perfect in between. Red. Komodo. Love this thing.....Yet a few months later, I still use my FX3 more hahaha. There is no winning.
Recently shot a project on Komodo, needless to say that image quality is great, but not practical at all to use, especially as a one man crew... Really Komodo was born to be a B-Camera for her bigger sisters at RED
I think cinema cameras have a place... But they are becoming dinosaurs. Technology is moving quicker then they can keep up with.
@@bradleyc6564 couldn't agree more
I want an FX3 so badly but I'm destitute.
For the past 6 years, I've shot all my TV spots on the Blackmagic 4.6k Ursa mini pro. Beautiful images! However, I'm very impressed with the Sony FX3 Cinema camera coupled with the Ronin-S gimbal. The auto focus is really smart and locks on the subject really well. The idea of eliminating the follow-focus guy is appealing. Sony's new focus tech is astounding.
Epic video! Would love to hear thoughts on Blackmagic 6k
I have a 4K with a nice lens and I love the look.
It'll be a contender in a few years when its internal NDs match the 10 stops canon offers and the AF is on par with how canon/sony AF isnat now in 2021, that and finally offering a fullframe body
@@Citizenflaba full frame bodies are overrated....most movies in history have been shot on Super 35
I am planning on the BlackMagic 6k too along with a Panasonic S5 and Fujifilm XT4
@@sammymorales6838 Yes but anyone can easily crop on the sensor and go into the APS-C mode also Cinema APS-C is slightly larger horizontally than the normal APS-C this does allow me to get a wider shot to reframe later on in a full frame
Thanks for making this video, Pete! I was really discouraged because everyone keeps telling me that I cannot be a filmmaker because cinema cameras are really heavy (and I have back problems) BUT your video encourages me to continue with cinematography!
Filmmaking is less about the camera, and more about the art.
So many excellent points! All of which I took into consideration when upgrading my gear. I struggled so hard between the Komodo and the C70 and most of your points really touched on why I ended up going with the C70. While it's labeled a "cinema" camera, it really fills the gap between a true cinema camera and a mirrorless. I love working with a crew but getting to do that is becoming increasingly rare in a world where clients want to pay less for more. Thanks for touching on all of these points.
Man, I've been thinking about this for years. The SLR game has stepped it up so much that it is just so hard to not lean toward them over a $25K dollar Red. Like you said, it all comes down to what your needs truly are.
The right tool for the job. For people that need a cinema camera, its not a question.
Love that you are still pursuing some D’Avella simplicity! So pumped for you, can’t wait to see how your speed and creativity will grow.
Sony is definitely creating some cinema camera competitors like the A7siii and especially the A1. I love how compact the tech is getting while also maintaining cinema quality!
Peter: do you really need a RED camera for RUclips?
MKBHD: *hold my beer*
At the end of the day it's content over video quality
Linus Tech Tips: Hold my 12K camera.
@@RockyLeong Those cameras were a clear step-back in image quality for the channel. K's are not everything... or even much of anything.
@@RockyLeong reds and arri alexas are much superior in quality than blackmajic
@@starnutron6147 As a professional, I have to say that I disagree. With technology at the stage it is, RED, Arri, and Blackmagic all produce amazing images that to an untrained eye are indistinguishable. Graded right, and using the same lenses, I doubt that the vast majority of even pros could tell the difference between any of them. Certainly if they could, the difference is so negligible that I wouldn't be worried by being forced to shoot a given project on any one of them.
Edit: This applies primarily to the URSA Mini Pro and onwards, earlier Blackmagic cameras certainly had a number of issues that make them noticeably worse than a RED or Arri.
Great content 👏🏾🔥
That selling the “package” is a great point. I remember meeting a photographer who was doing H.S. senior portraits with these huge lights, that were old. I asked him why he doesn’t update to new light weight gear? He said the lights actually have no real bearing on the photos, I’m faxt he had a high power strobe that lit it all perfectly, but he sets up the big lights to give people that photoshoot feel and experience.
If ppl admit it or not if it looks really cool and important even if you know it does nothing you definitely feel differently than if there was nothing there
@@BrianZuma so true. Same thing is true for the food industry. I was on a Food Network show and Anne Burrell told us that studies showed people enjoyed food that was presented nicely, compared to same exact fold that wasn’t presented as nice. A good thing to remember, after all people are buying the experience as much as the results.
I remember when I made a video for a client… I walked in with my iPhone 11 on a tripod with a mic clipped on top and a soft box…. And his words… is that your phone !? Haha imagine what he would if said with a red!!! 😂 at least he lived the final product haha
I mean if the client doesn't pay you enough, why should you film it with a red camera. You did the right thing. Small budget? Okay just use my phone.
With some planning and editing both 11 and 12 iPhones can rock it.
I've run a video production company for 7 years and last year just decided that the A7Siii was pretty much all needed.
It's a bit tricky on the audio side but I love the consistency from gimbal to tripod to track. And it's so damn portable.
This is Pete I subscribed to, many moons ago. This is what I am here. Keep THIS going man, because your style can be copied but not duplicated. Love the energy, speedy recovery.👍
So glad you did this. I’ve been asking this for a year now. I’m no filmmaker but I’m obsessed with learning it. Companies are putting out smaller cinema style cameras everyday. And if you “just do RUclips” there is zero reason to spend that money. Some one my favorite channels are still shooting in a freaking M50. And if they didn’t tell me, I wouldn’t notice the difference.
4:47 ~frictionless~ Cody Ko and Peter McKinnon both making frictionless the Canadian adjective of choice
Scrolled the comments to see who also caught it 😂
@@stefankoen Same 🤣
must be some smart guys
Thanks for always advising what is practical with your videos peter! Hope to start my photography journey soon
Wow perfect timing as ever Pete. Touched my first cinema cam TODAY and had these questions. Keep up the great work.
I have moved my entire workflow over to the blackmagic 6k pro. I am really enjoying it. I would also say the Panasonic s1 is also killing it at the film making especially since you have Prores raw and b-raw support on those platforms.
Same here ! sold Ursa and scarlet :D
Ive been working on the 4k for about 2 years now...just got a 6k about 4-5 months ago. Atem mini....it's a godsend for the money, having this rig alone
Yeah that s1H is great. I’m wondering if the new gh6 will support b-raw too. I think I can live (kinda) without nd filters if that’s the case.
@@gatewoodsensei If it does support B-Raw it would be killer. That said. you will still need ND. I can tell you that one of my shoots had I not had ND I would have been screwed. I was shooting during the day at ISO 100 on a 75mm lens. Even stopped down t of16 my shutter speed was basically unusable. After adding 4 stops of nd I was able to get the shot I wanted.
@@photognate88 my bad! I meant internal nd filters.
It does present professionalism, especially to the corporates. I think if you work with big companies its vital to have those cinema cameras.
You’re right in some respect but even big companies see the value in smaller content. Film and content is produced in tiers and there’s ALWAYS room for that range of production value even in multi million dollar industry.
If it's a type of job that doesn't come around that often you'd be better off renting it for that shoot
@@garritgreen true, otherwise you will seat next to expansive gear that has taken a lot from you financially and yet returning drops.
@ItsChrisVee totally agree, but I’m pretty sure the client has seen your profile. Sometimes your profile speaks for you, which is why even if you show up with you R6 on a Gimbal alone thy have no doubts due to the previous work of yours that thy saw.
Depends on the job requirements. I've worked with clients that have been brainwashed thinking they need cinemagrade cameras, even though the company I work for will be doing all the work for from pre to post production 🤦
I agree so much. Every time I have showed up to a client shoot with just a Sony a7iii setup they didn’t believe I could pull it off, but when Ever I used like an ursa cinema camera setup the client was over whelmed and super confident before I even started shooting. Great video Pete, you’re a big inspiration to mee 👊💯
So excited to see what you come up with in your documentary. This was great!
The image quality/DR difference between an R5 and a Komodo is substantial, so yes definitely still worth having a cinema camera. But I love both of them. Different tools for different jobs
Well the r5 has one of the worst dynamic range out of most modern full frame mirrorless cameras (worst being the r6), not a very high bar to beat ;)
true I'm buying an fx6 lol I have a fx3 its great but I need internal NDs
I'm with you on mirrorless and gimbal and drone that's how I literally roll
Same here, better then an iPhone and osmo mobile.
Really interesting vid peter ! Love that format
Such a solid video with so many amazing points to keep in mind! This is one of the best informative type videos youve put together. I've been waiting for this topic forever! THNK YOU!
Z Cam is an awesome and “affordable” option for cinema cams for anyone who is interested in starting a rig 🎥
My RED has sat on my shelf since December 2019. It's officially the most expensive paper weight ever. You nailed it on this one.
C70 seems like the good marriage of cinema and mirrorless tech.
@@dlovisuals that it is - once you get past the sensor crop the image it produces is beautiful 🤙🏼🤙🏼
@@richiedieckhoff 16-35 all day son
Sell that puppy!
@@BrendanEvan It's my baby.... but it may be time
Dude I love the minimalistic style! This video really has me thinking about what I actually need!
Been waiting 4 this Pete!! good one..nice listening to you talk on clubhouse 😀
They’re not pointless, but they’re getting more niche…
I remember I turned up with a Canon M50 and Zhiyun Crane M2 and the client was like oh.......IS THAT IT!?? .......AWE THATS SO CUTE 😂
Some event is happening at your local park that your interested in. You say to your self I would like to film that. Turns up with that beastie red camera and a whole crew. Not intimidating much.
Watching your videos after a very long time. Still inspiring as they did before. Love your work bro.
Stay on the RED for the doc, Pete! I’d love to see your work on Netflix. You deserve all of the success you earn. ❤️
This video pretty much cured me from wanting to upgrade (again). I already have a nice 4k full frame Canon and I'm just shooting my laundry room/"studio" making talking head education videos for RUclips. It sounds like I already own what I need. Thank you, Peter.
I would like to do something simular with my channel
I love rewatching your videos whenever I’m in a slump and need to get my motivation back.. . Thanks dude
Love the video bro! As always!!
Peter: "You've got brands like Canon, Sony, Fuji..."
Me (Nikon shooter): Well... =(
nobody ever mentions Panasonic :/
@@kaikayoru1316 And it is very good too.
@@kaikayoru1316 and most M43 users still forget about Olympus...
I am also a Nikon user.... And I felt the same😂😂👍
Nikon doesn’t count.
Would love to hear your thoughts on new “entry level” cinema cameras like the Canon C70 or Sony FX3 which are smaller and priced like pro photo cameras 😁
Don't expect him to make a video on a sony video...
@@srijonmondal8842 I’ve been following him for a while now. Sony doesn’t exist in his world
C70 it’s a pro and fx3 more cool I guess.
Those are $4K cameras. Entry level cinema cameras are Zcam and black magic
Regarding the FX3: Unless you really need the XLR inputs, unlimited recording (cooling) and the tally lights, you could also go for a A7SIII. Same insides, but cheaper and has a view finder.
Hey! This video I've enjoyed! The spark is back :) Thank man
@Peter McKinnon, I see you rockin' that PM tee!!! Dope, keep it up brother! Love your content, always looking forward to your next video.
I've shot a ton of projects on just a Sony A7III and had them come out great.
However I will say, having shot with both cinema cameras and mirrorless/DSLRs, despite them being heavier I vastly prefer working with the cinema camera. There are certainly exceptions (using the a7 on a small gimbal in a tight space is sooooo much easier then a big rig), but like if I'm doing handheld work, I actually like the extra weight. It helps me steady up a bit and it's much easier for me to get a full solid grip on it.
You can totally rig a photography camera out to work better, but something like a c300 or FX6 just sits so well in my hands in a way the a photo camera just doesn't.
5:30 that was my life when I tried to be filmmaker lol
Lol try showing up to a wedding with the baby Fuji f2 lenses. A lot of side-eyeing going on
Probably one of your best videos. Every aspiring film maker should watch this. Awesome stuff!
Great video Pete!!!
For real sometimes you gotta make your setup bigger to impress a client. I'll put my A7SIII and RS2 on a monopod with a mattebox just to make it look a tad more impressive but I still keep that run and gun style. I shoot exclusively dance videos so that's why I need run and gun lol
Yes, there is still a need for cinema cameras, but not the cinema cameras of even 2 years ago. Canon C70...Panasonic S1H...Canon EOS R5c. Those are examples of the cinema cameras of today and the near future.
Always, always useful and very honest considerations and insights. Thank you!
Nice video Peter, it's so true what you need or not...
For a person that has worked in the film industry for 20+ years, I can totally say this is 100% accurate.
Hi Peter - funny, was just watching reviews on cinema cameras as finally got a big client and got money to buy my first cinema camera!
the question is are you gonna buy it?
*Stoked to see the new site for the Gear, Presets and Videos* . 🤙🏼
Really amazing info peter ❤️👍
He says he would love to hear what we think. Really? 😀Do you even read these comments? But anyway, We come here because you're our inspiration, no matter what, we'll watch your videos ☺️🙏 LEGEND FOREVER!❤️
This was a dope video, cinema cameras and mirrorless DSLR’s are closing the gap between each other
Very true
And iPhones/gopros are closing the cap between them and dslrs
@@theroadnottakentravel Still pretty far off. There's no flexibility with smarphones and gopros. The look is different. Dynamic range is also insanely different. The smaller devices do have tricks like merging frames for hdr video, but with a ultra compressed 8 bit file, nothing you can do on it in post production.
Thanks for this video. This is something that was certainly on my mind the past few months. I bought a Canon EOS C100 last year - simply because it was what I could afford - with the goal of using it to make shorts and _maybe perhaps_ no-budget features, and I even used it for a few of my RUclips videos. And as you mentioned, Peter, it's a lot of work with the setup and everything. But then about a month ago, I got the Canon EOS RP. An inexpensive foray into full frame? I figured, why not? And while the RP absolutely has its shortcomings, it's good enough for RUclips, I think it might be good enough for short projects, but most important, it's shown me what's possible - and what might be to come. So I'm pumping the brakes on my cinema camera dreams for now (I was eyeing the C70 for a while) and I'm gonna see what happens in the world of full-frame mirrorless first. Because really, at the end of the day, it's not the camera that matters. It's all about the content you create with it. Thanks again, Peter. Cheers! ✊🏾
Very informative video! Thanks!
Let’s goooo!!!! Thank you Pete!! Now give me a cup of 13hour old coffee 😂😂
Lol
What does Peter McKinnon think about Black magic pocket cinema cameras?
Yeah, curious aswel!
same, I would love to hear his take on Black Magic
I was having this thought right as I saw this comment. What does PM think of BM?
Really interesting topic. Thanks for that! And of course again super exciting to watch! 👍😎
loved this video. big fan of this confusion. and exited discussion. great in knowing even you were confused in this discussion at some point.
From a youtuber’s stand point I would never need a cinema camera. My R6 is amazing for what I got goin on!
Exactly, also a lot of people seem to forget about all the additional costs for all that is needed for a cinema camera. My R6 and my R are all I need from a RUclips perspective!
@@ElBoyoElectronico this is my setup now that I got my R6!!!! How is it matching the footage from both cameras?
@@Ed_Scott Not that easy tbh, since they seem to render colors a but differently. If I find the time, I will also use my colorchecker before shooting my footage, which helps a ton. Generally the R6 tends to render colors warmer and has a bit of a yellow tint (also red skintones), while the R tends to have a green cast to its footage. Nothing too crazy though. But it shows if not corrected for.
@@ElBoyoElectronico appreciate the response. Some definite food for thought as I start this journey.
Awesome video Pete! I shot a short film as the DP a few months ago and I was shooting on my Panasonic GH5S. One of the producers was actually judging me pretty negatively for showing up with it because she was used to seeing Arri's and Red's on set. But because I had a lot of lights to work with (which I always prioritize first), she went from saying "Why are we shooting on this piece of shit camera?" to "Ohh....that piece of shit camera can do THAT?" Hahaha. To me cameras are so good nowadays that as long as you have good lighting and good lenses, you could make it look like a cinema camera. All about the person behind the camera, not the camera itself
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Great video. Thank you for being down to earth and real about this topic
That was an AMAZING video 😍 wow it was great the footage the dialogues the way it covered everything we needed to know … after this I feel like I have to subscribe
Here’s how you work out if you should buy or even rent a cinema camera
If you’re wondering, then don’t.
Wow, I really like how you make a "pure talking video" really entertaining - I really didn't realize, I had just spent 13 minutes until the end. Goood job!
The value and quality of your videos is just incredible! btw what happened to the PFFWHATS UP?
Peter: "First: let's talk about price!" **never tells the actual price**
hahahha good video sir! as always! Those cameras look insanely good, but as a youtuber, I would "never" consider buying one, the huge difference in price is a dealbreaker for me, plus I need portable/light/fast equipment. Thanks!
It's a great video and question. To me it comes down to the client. Are they paying for high end cinema gear? If not, don't buy it. Buy what you are using most for the people that are paying you the most.
i love all your videos, you are amazing 🤩
Excellent video summary on this question! I've been reflecting on that for months. Decision made. Thanks.
Everything start with BMPCC 6K PRO as a really mobile CINEMA CAMERA. Just 2 years after Canon C70 or Sony FX3 is another step closer to real pocket thing. Need less equipment... everything can handle the camera body it self.
Anyway I think 6K Pro has best looking footage. Sony is the best in low Light so far and Canon has 16 stops of dynamic range... Hard to compare. I love them all.
I get in my car to drive to an appointment 15 minutes away and Peter drops a 12-minute video 🤜🤛
You’re the 🐐 Peter. Blessed to have learned from you for so long
I needed this video so hard right now. Thank you!
Did Pete just recognised the quality of Fujifilm cameras?😍
We have him referring to Peter McKinnon in the third person, ladies and gents.
Love hearing your thoughts all the time
Honestly I agree and found myself in similar situations and have a smaller faster run and gun set up that Im really happy with. Less stress when you know your camera turns on quickly and your set up time on gear is faster. Makes creating content more fun!
I prefer to watch creators using equipment that is available to the average person.......If that makes sense.
They are only for the biggest projections but due to corona no one goes in to cinema theatres ❤️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks mate
Oh you are so good at getting me to watch every single second of your videos! Right down to waiting for you to close the door on the lens at the very end … and then you don’t!! Although I visualize cinematic movies in my head and often wish I had a lot of the gear and crew, reality is that I don’t need any of that and I don’t have a crew, and I actually work very well on my own. What this video did for me however, was make me aware that I certainly need to upgrade from my little Canon M 50 Mark II. Thank you again Peter for your inspiration, great advice and entertaining content. 😊❤️
Using a RED 8K with a Canon EF lens on it is like killing a fly with a shotgun. It's not just about the camera, it's the optics!
That definitely struck a cord! It’s like a Rolls Royce with Ford rims! I hate seeing photography lenses on Reds
I have a Cinema camera I’m not even using anymore. Once I sell it I’ll just rent newer models for special projects ! 🤙🏻 Better to keep that money (or invest it) and get clients to pay for fancy cameras on projects if needed, super easy to rent these days.
I'll give you a grand for it.
Or u can just rent it out to other people
@@tyrongeorgetown6378 True..
Great content as always
This was very informative, thanks so much!! 💯
Just bought a Canon C70 today. There’s always room for quality in the ocean of low level mediocrity out there!
He’s attempting to be partial. NO. The answer is big income, big camera.
Loved it..... Super informative and you really mentioned the things that we need to think about. P.S So glad to see you getting done with the healing process.
Great talking points and thoughts in this! It's an interesting topic but like you eluded to, at the end of the day it depends on what type of work you do and what your needs are. My production company does a lot of work with some bigger national companies and we film all their stuff on a freaking A7III cause at the end of the day they can't tell the difference as long as it looks good!
Ignoring quality, what shots can a cinema camera do that the modern day mirrorless can't? Story is everything.
So,w really great points Peter! I definitely agree that there are still some uses for cinema cameras, but only really on the super professional scenarios, such as selling to Netflix like you mentioned. At the end of the day, if you know how to properly light, compose a shot, edit, and color grade, any camera can look cinema quality!