Derecka Purnell - Making the Argument for Abolishing the Police | The Daily Show
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2021
- Derecka Purnell breaks down what abolishing the police really looks like and why it’s a better option for society in her book “Becoming Abolitionists: Police, Protests and the Pursuit of Freedom.” #DailyShow #TrevorNoah #DereckaPurnell
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Get Rid of the Privatize Jail , the city/state will cut off at least Half of the Police for you!
1 % of prisoners are held in private prisons
@@timeWaster76 : common sense is what you lack of!
@@daveton9033 "what you lack of!" What ? How would "Rid of the Privatize" amount to "will cut off at least Half of the Police for you!" ... assuming that make a shred of sense
@@timeWaster76 1% is too much.
@@timeWaster76 legalizing private prisons have been a bad idea.
Non profit prisons ran by the state would be more efficient and safer... private prisons for profit encourage more inmates.
Finally. I'm so glad to see this perspective on the issue allowed to play out without one side ending up yelling at the other before they stop to listen.
Why would that happen, they are on the same political side 🤣
@@nathanbarnes8625 Even if they were not, it should not end up in a yelling match. I hope that is an issue we will resolve.
I do wish she would have answered his questions.
Its a delusion idea but hey we need comedy dont we?
I get the idea of building up society to remove the catalysts for many crimes, but I feel like you have to do that work first before abolishing the police. We all want to live in that neighborhood where everyone feels safe leaving their doors unlocked but you don't do that while you're still in a rough neighborhood. That step comes last. Don't take away my buckets until you've patched the holes :)
I think Trevor was asking the right questions and I'm glad we're having the conversation.
My thinking exactly. Utopia sounds great but is it actionable.
History has showed us that police have disrupted efforts to fix the roof because it threatens their jobs. I write about it in the book. We gotta do both, at the same time, over time, for a long time!
@@MrsBbp Interesting, I guess that makes sense. I like the sound of the meet-in-the-middle approach
I mean.. I totally get where she's coming from and all that, and I absolutely agree that we need to seriously reimagine what policing in America looks like, but I don't believe completely getting rid of all policing is the solution.
It's absolutely impossible to get rid of all crime, so we do need law enforcement to do just that - enforce the law. I'm totally for the concept of dradtically shrinking the police funding and number of police, and instead offer strong social programs that prevents crime from happening.. but even in the most utopic and safe world, crime will never be eradicated. We should absolutely focus more on prevention, that's key to true reform and justice.. but that's complicated, and requires reform on not just policing, but every other aspect of governing. That includes ensuring affordable and quality housing for every single person, ensuring affordable/free, quality and accessable health care to again literally every single person, ensuring every single person quality employment with quality pay, the list goes on.. you get the idea. The thing is though, even with all these things in place, you'll never be able to 100% prevent all crime. Proper policing is not just about preventing crime, but bringing justice when it occurs, which it always inevitably will. That's just the sad reality.
We need reasonable solutions that actually makes sense. American policing today is totally indefensable, and it needs to drastically and systematically change. We need to look more at alternatives to deal with homeless people, domestic disputes, drug issues, mental health crisis', and all non-violent offenses, but as well look critically at all existing laws, and reevaluate what we deem illegal and not. Prison reform is also massively important, as well as complete drug reform. Policing is a massive issue, but by far not the only issue. Police unions needs drastic change as well.
I just think that colmpletely aboloshing the police isn't reasonable.. a dradtic reduction on the other hand is reasonable AND necessary. Redistributing funding is as well - that's one of the more attainable solutions to the issue at large. Social programs supporting lifting people up and out of desperation, homelessness, health issues including drug addiction and all of these things are real solutions that can be done. Completely aboloshing the police simply isn't realistic. I certainly wish that COULD be a reality, but that's wishful thinking. We need to look at other solutions. I recommend looking at how other countries, those with the least amount of crime are doing policing.. they're obiviously doing something right, and have figured out great stuff that America hasn't yet. That includes getting money and "lobbying", aka legal bribery out of politics, so real solutions CAN take place, instead of quality, meaningful policies being dead at arrival due to police unions, prison "lobbyists" etc. bribing politicians to not change anything.
Money in politics is what we keep coming back to - it truly is the root of all evil, and the thing that mostly obstructs progress from taking place.
Murders will always occur until we can fix things we can’t fix now.
Mental health crisis, just plain mean, sadists, psychopaths, the list is endless. You’re not going to stop all murders so you NEED a uniformed agency which enforced laws that typically operate within local jurisdictions... or as it’s better called- police. A city law enforcement.
You just need it. You can’t get around it. It would be nice to not need police but if you think having police is bad now, imagine not having police and just having mob rule.
You’d see more crime in general, then they’d default back to having a group of armed people enforcing laws... so we’re back to “ police “ without the title.
It just doesn’t work. It won’t work. Atleast not yet.
Should be called crime abolition
This is actually kind of an interesting rhetorical take.
Or even “crime abolition, Police abolition.” After the whole issue with “defund the police“ being rhetorically twisted to other people you think supposedly intelligent activist would do a better job in the future.
Plus, I would say the defund the police movement seems to not have worked out properly in many cities around this country. Wasn’t at Seattle that really cut the budget of the Police quite a bit, had crime spike, and then started begging for cops to come back.
I like the idea of treating the root cause of the issues. This is a very ambitious ideology for our current society. I hope that one day, we can achieve to make our society a peaceful and understanding one. It will take a lot of work and faith in one another.
Yes you are right.Only if we really try and work thogeter we can archive our dreams and make a better future
When I moved to Sweden, I was immediately struck by how safe I felt. It took years for the anxieties to subside. I could respect that they created a society where there is equal opportunity for people to thrive, a low presence of cops that when present, they engaged with people respectfully and I could go into any neighbor with little to no worry. I would argue that this ideal has been challenging to achieve over the past 5 years but hopefully they will get it under control.
The US could learn from countries similar to Sweden but first the US has to get some control over their corruption. Right now too much power and money is supporting it.
I have faith that this is possible. A better world/society is possible and I'm excited to be part of the positive change.
Dude that is a pipe dream. I wish it was that way too. Looked at history. She's correct thinking police can't solve everything. We need to do spiritually religiously. Still this defies common sense and history.
@@magsbayou Sweden is a ideal society but unfortunately America and many other nations have so much infighting, historical injustices that it won't work like that.
Still never answered the question, “What do you do when someone kills”?
She's just like our two faced pro-establishment politicians.
The bucket story had me convinced... We really need to throw away these buckets...
Actually...can you explain how the bucket analogy makes sense. It seems like she is saying lets get rid of the bucket and then makes some vague claims about maybe fixing the roof.
@@Jeremy-ql1or Hie Jeremy, the problem is not lack buckets... The problem is a leaky roof... The presence/absence of buckets does not change that fact... Why are we wasting our efforts on not fixing the problem?
The analogy is trash and she inadvertently proves she’s operating off woke fumes. The “bucket” (the police) is not the leak. The leak is the “root cause” and the roof is the nation (its laws and regulations). She wants to remove the buckets without fixing the roof lol. Logically, you should fix the roof and then remove the buckets.
@@pseudo_ra Not if the buckets can fight back with guns and tanks. As long as the police are around, i don't think they will just sit down and watch themselves rendered useless...
@@cyizarwanda5488 U have misunderstood what she said. 6:11 she explained how u can’t get rid of the buckets overnight, if u focus on the root cause of the problems and find solutions (impossible for now) then the buckets will have their power reduced naturally! There’s no need for them!
I mean.. I totally get where she's coming from and all that, and I absolutely agree that we need to seriously reimagine what policing in America looks like, but I don't believe completely getting rid of all policing is the solution.
It's absolutely impossible to get rid of all crime, so we do need law enforcement to do just that - enforce the law. I'm totally for the concept of dradtically shrinking the police funding and number of police, and instead offer strong social programs that prevents crime from happening.. but even in the most utopic and safe world, crime will never be eradicated. We should absolutely focus more on prevention, that's key to true reform and justice.. but that's complicated, and requires reform on not just policing, but every other aspect of governing. That includes ensuring affordable and quality housing for every single person, ensuring affordable/free, quality and accessable health care to again literally every single person, ensuring every single person quality employment with quality pay, the list goes on.. you get the idea. The thing is though, even with all these things in place, you'll never be able to 100% prevent all crime. Proper policing is not just about preventing crime, but bringing justice when it occurs, which it always inevitably will. That's just the sad reality.
We need reasonable solutions that actually makes sense. American policing today is totally indefensable, and it needs to drastically and systematically change. We need to look more at alternatives to deal with homeless people, domestic disputes, drug issues, mental health crisis', and all non-violent offenses, but as well look critically at all existing laws, and reevaluate what we deem illegal and not. Prison reform is also massively important, as well as complete drug reform. Policing is a massive issue, but by far not the only issue. Police unions needs drastic change as well.
I just think that colmpletely aboloshing the police isn't reasonable.. a dradtic reduction on the other hand is reasonable AND necessary. Redistributing funding is as well - that's one of the more attainable solutions to the issue at large. Social programs supporting lifting people up and out of desperation, homelessness, health issues including drug addiction and all of these things are real solutions that can be done. Completely aboloshing the police simply isn't realistic. I certainly wish that COULD be a reality, but that's wishful thinking. We need to look at other solutions. I recommend looking at how other countries, those with the least amount of crime are doing policing.. they're obiviously doing something right, and have figured out great stuff that America hasn't yet. That includes getting money and "lobbying", aka legal bribery out of politics, so real solutions CAN take place, instead of quality, meaningful policies being dead at arrival due to police unions, prison "lobbyists" etc. bribing politicians to not change anything.
Money in politics is what we keep coming back to - it truly is the root of all evil, and the thing that mostly obstructs progress from taking place.
Have you even listened to this interview in full before writing this treatise?
As I've pointed out in other comments, only civilized society has crime. So it is possible to live without it.
I suggest reading Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.
sick of you ACAB whites saying “i’m an abolitionist but we still need some police” stop using our language if you’re not seriously about it. if you’re contributing to the movement with your time, energy, and labor then step the f*ck back
You didn't LISTEN and then wrote all this.
Seems like you have many solid critiques of the united states. There's no need to limit your imagination within boundaries you actively recognize are unjust. Abolition is about destroying the cop in your mind, the prison in your mind, the lobbiest in your mind. The voice that tells you that it can't happen even though you know it's right. Police abolition and prison abolition are possible. We can and will do it.
How did we become this dumb?
Yay!!! Go Derecka!!!
Having a society with millions of people without crime is a utopia. It's impossible for the human race to live in a world like that. Therefore, the all concept of abolish Police is ridicolus. You can work on making the Police better and that would improve the society, but it's more important to improve the issues that cause all the crime.
You’ll continue to learn about poverty
and zero answers to the basic questions asked : what do you THEN do about the killers? she's dodging like a pro but the questions remain unanswered.
She didn't say anything about the breakdown of families as being a cause. That's an important piece when it comes to crime reduction. We don't need police reform. We need to reform society/culture.
Based.
Of course she wouldn't: because then she'd have to criticize African-Americans, thereby positioning them in a position of responsibility which takes away the power of them being a privileged victim.
Before we go through the trouble of abolishing anything, can we just get rid of qualified immunity and ensure cops are held accountable? Let's see if that helps.
I agree. I don't know how the idea of burning the whole house down got so much momentum, yet we can't seem to find the appetite to push hard for reform, which is much more likely to get passed anyway,
Apparently it doesn’t even help them now. Qualified immunity is for things done without malice. Soon cops will find other jobs for fear of being blamed a killer or racist while trying to do their jobs. You ask kids now what they want to be when they grow up! It’s not cops and doctors….it’s rappers and professional athletes! This country is heading for disaster and people like this lady is costing the way!
Yeah, seems like we could insist on making the first steps before we just jump to the end.
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Qualified immunity is just a tool police can use to prevent lawsuits against them. These lawsuits would not result in the police paying money anyways
Crimes of opportunity is not an excuse.
Crime is crime
The bucket analogy is so amazing I think I will use that sometime
yeah? remember that it implies that you have to fix the roof FIRST.
The bucket analogy is fantastic. I really appreciate all the work Trevor and his guest do. Their efforts are so inspirational. Keep waking people up. ✌🏽🖤✨🌺🫐🐞🦋🌍
The bucket analogy is far from being fantastic.
1) we need buckets till the roof is fixed.
2) nothing guarantees that the roof won't leak again (in the same position or elsewhere).
@@doulahaa I’m not saying buckets are fantastic. Her analogy makes a lot of sense to me. You and I are saying the same thing.
I agree looking at why crimes are committed should absolutely be a priority. But just with people *knowing* that there is the police who will enforce repercussions for any crimes committed, decreases crime. If there is no enforcement of punishment, crime will go up since people know they aren't in trouble for doing so.
I think you express a widely held belief, which is very understandable, but it is ultimately not backed up by empirical evidence. Most law abiding citizens do so because it is in their nature to do so; they wouldn't commit a crime even if they knew they could get away with it because they have their own moral compass. Criminals are mostly people who have suffered childhood traumas whose brains function differently in ways most of us cannot imagine. For them, they are not thinking about the consequences when they commit the crime, or if they do they have convinced themselves why they won't be caught. Please indulge me with 2 anecdotes: 1) During my honeymoon in Scotland in the 1990s, my wife and I went to a village with no police and walked into a B&B where the owners were apparently out. The door wasn't locked, and there was fine china and silverware laid out on the table. We left and took nothing, not because we were afraid of being caught but because we knew it was the right thing to do. 2) One of my professors in college in the late 1980s explained to us that there is a strong correlation between the number of people 18-30 and crime. Based on demographic trends, he showed us how the post-WWII baby boom had fueled rising crime in the 70s. He also predicted that crime would start dropping around 1992 or 1993. That's exactly what happened - not necessarily because of increased policing, which wouldn't happen until the mid-90s, but simply because there were fewer people liable to commit crimes. Which makes me think of Japan: few young people, fewer police, almost no crime.
@@stevenklein5240 It is backed up by randomised trials of hot spot policing. In these experiments, you take a group of high-crime areas, and randomly choose some of them to have increased police patrolling. The results have been that crime in those areas is reduced relative to areas who were not chosen to have more patrolling.
@@kaiserblazer Thanks, I am sure those trials reflect short-term trends, but they don't apply to long-term macro trends. In the end, we'd all like to see less violence in the long term. And it still seems to me the answer involves the issues Ms. Purnell raises as well as others to address and prevent childhood traumas, which requires directing resources toward community development, support for at-risk families and children and (a less punishment-oriented) education
@@kaiserblazer Reality is much more nuanced and complicated than what you presuppose from what I'm assuming you're referencing to be the randomized trials conducted by the government (NIJ). I recommend research done by Dr. Forrest Stuart that explores how (over-)policing erodes communities and community cohesion, such as that in LA's Skid Row, as residents come to learn how to better avoid police contact with increased surveillance (by becoming "cop-wise"), rather than stop criminalized behaviors. In turn, many residents who may need critical life services are deterred and inhibited from accessing them as they are pushed farther into the shadows of communities.
High policing and stop and frisk policies lead to racial and socioeconomic disparities in arrest and law enforcement attention and ignores and exacerbates underlying dynamics that generate conditions for "crime" to occur. For more on this, check out this Law & Society article, pg. 1498-1500 (www.cambridge.org/core/journals/law-and-social-inquiry/article/policing-social-marginality-contrasting-approaches/FDCA048E7D4CA9EDA434663008A0BCB3).
Trevor PLEASE LOSE THE SUIT🙏😣AND
TURN UP THE VOLUME!! 😭🙋
This is a conversation that needs to continue. I’m someone who has embraced the idea of abolition a long time ago and I think more people would embrace it too if they actually understood what it was really about, which many who are against it do not. Derecka presented this extremely well. Thanks so much for bringing her on!
IF WE ONLY CAN GET RID OF THAT EVIL MINDSET IN THE HEARTS OF HUMANKIND. BECAUSE DESPITE WHAT WE DO, EVIL WILL STILL PERSIST.
I always thought that as long as we have laws and we keep on making them, enforcers are needed to uphold these laws.
Finally! Someone in this comment section with common sense! I 100% agree!
Yes the enforcers should be sheriffs tho. Sheriffs are voted. Police are hired by the city corporation to protect rich people’s property and keep blacks away that’s quite literally their job. Oh ain’t to hunt down black people for free prison labor
Her argument sounds like a incomplete thought…
You're judging her whole argument on 9 minutes. Try reading her book first.
@@freedumb_3.0 Yeah. Not the best book advertisement though. They're probably better books on policing alternatives out there.
@@maxwellmurdoch There are tons of ways to fix this problem. You just got to get through this tribal 2 party bickering.
@@freedumb_3.0 I also don't like the Republicans nor Democrats however I occasionally vote for Democrats/Republicans depending on the policies of the people running for office.
I think the whole idea is that no one really knows how to do it, but that she and others are committed to experimenting and trying to change the system. So, yes, it is an incomplete thought, but not an irrelevant one.
Appreciate having her on and letting her give her perspective...but this just sounds like "as soon as we fundamentally alter human nature so everyone is perfect, we won't need police or prisons." Like, yeah, but there is no reason to think we can get to a perfect state where there's no harm ever done.
correct
Someone stole your car, go.
You can’t just create a society where that didn’t happen or shouldn’t happen.
I am okay with the idea of an utopia. It's like shooting higher than you think you can go, because it inspires you to try for better things. If you don't have any ideal to push you forward, you shrug and give up on doing anything. It's okay to have ambitious goals for society :/
Abolishing police is an over-correction, a focus on societal welfare in conjunction with a oversight of law enforcement is more appropriate.
@Robert Arnold The police ? Cost you ? Sounds more like you are the reason we have to have cops. All they did was arrest you. And I am sure you did noting wrong as no one ever does. Some how I relieved you're not a doctor. And that you are not a cop even more relieved.
I don't think you would have made it through medical school.
over-correction to an over-stated problem
There is no such thing as an over-correction when it comes to public safety, police brutality, and wasted tax dollars.
@@truettadevil There's always such a thing as over-correction in any area. I'd like to quit smoking, but I'm not going to cut off my hands so that I stop doing it.
@@thenostalgiabusiness cutting off your hands would not stop you from smoking, no more than it would stop you from dressing yourself, painting, etc. Your comment sounds very ableist...
Really tried to listen but she did a horrible job advocating for abolition, she is talking about a world with no crime and while she is 100% right that a lot of crime is caused by disenfranchisement we need to work through, the fact she kept jumping around the question of “what do we do with murderers” by responding with “well with these programs there definitely won’t be murderers” shows while optimistic and halfway right when it comes to looking at our obsession with law enforcement over basic things to actually help communities and lower crime rates, she is just wildly off on how people actually are.
Did you watch the whole thing? She extrapoled on that exact thing after 6 mins.
Police can still be useful if they actually do their jobs and *follow the law like everyone else.*
Most So-Called black/white people (caste) have issue with the police because of police brutality, rightfully so, and police brutality conveniently so happens to be done by *officers with HISTORIES of prejudice/racist/extremist-affiliated behavior* , but they are protected by politicians AS IF they were above the law (they're not).
Luckily Nationality can at least address the issue of brutality *Because NO CELEBRITY IS TALKING NATIONALITY OR THE POWER OF **_NATIONS_** and I STG if you delete this comment or this video to hide this info... you have your answer.*
*OR you can Just ask The Moors.*
1°eac3
@Robert Arnold IMO, most crimes are committed for economic reasons. You can legalize all the drugs all you want, but if the person who wants it can't afford it, he will rob or steal to get it. Kids join gangs because it's a way for them to earn money so they can buy the latest fad. Gangs kills because they don't want someone else making money on their territory.
@Robert Arnold if you have a local politician who has a loosey police force VOTE THEM OUT.
Democracy is a gift of my forefathers for the PEOPLES NATURAL/NATIONAL-Living Beings.
@@freedumb_3.0 true but place the money that would be spend on the war against it on education and rehab to get the people help, stop addiction and the mobsters will earn a lot less and you won't need to invest in a police drug war
I have to say I enjoyed listening to her argument. I have to think on it a bit to counter it but I definitely can appreciate the idea of "if we keep doing things the same way, we will get the same results." So I definitely like the approach of researching alternatives to solving problems.
I do believe what will serve as an obstacle is corruption. Policing and prison now makes money and someone is capitalizing on it. Some people are elected on the fear mongering of using the atrocities of those afflicted communities and in turn welcome being bribed to contribute the atrocities. They have a need to make Black people the negative talking points to appeal to their white constituents, i.e. divisiveness.
However there are ways to reach utopia and circumventing the corruption but it will take a community working together. An example is the all boy's school they created in Chicago with the intention to put young boys and men on a different path and their success was achieving a 100% graduation rate from high school and a near 100% rate of them continuing on to college. Supplement it with programs that also places them in entry level career making positions, then we start decreasing poverty, the need for police and supporting prisons but this route takes time and patience.
Ngl the solutions she presents are overly idealistic and barely practical even under the most ideal conditions
In our current system it will take an extraordinary amount of work, but it’s at important to at least have the conversation and work towards what we can.
@@Skywacker47 She hasn't provided any specific solutions in the form of clear policies that are written out. At least, not in this video. Maybe she does in her book. But American activists are more anti-establishment than they are pro-solution.
@@Skywacker47 I dont work to even start to work in a delusional idea. Law enforcament has existed sinced the first civilizations for a reason. We need a strong Police
Without listening her point of view ,it easy to just disagree with her...her view is example of why we should listen before we respond
I listen and i fully disagree
Every policy maker who advocates abolishing the police is a clear and present danger and needs to be treated as such!
Count me in
Interesting idea and glad to have her voice, but I disagree about getting rid of the police entirely
You clearly didn't listen to the interview. She clearly stated, the goal was to remove the need for the police. She also said, in America, it would be impossible to get rid of the police entirely.
@@truettadevil That'd be fantastic, but it's also fantastical. I think we'd all be on board for not needing anyone to prevent or punish crimes, but that necessitates that there isn't any crime. No society in the history of humanity has been able to figure that out, so I'm not exactly hopeful that we'll be the first.
@burningfeet57 police in the UK don't carry guns. And they are required to have degrees.
@@thenostalgiabusiness you're exposing the fact that you either 1. did not watch the full interview (because she addressed the argument of there never being a utopia), or 2. have terrible listening comprehension (because she addressed the argument of there never being a utopia).
People like you are exactly why we can’t seem to get anywhere lol you didn’t even try to understand.
It's driving me mad how bad the cutting from Trevor's team is at the moment..
That woman just said some om the most idiotic, crazy and most disturbing things I have ever heard. She has absolutely no idea how reality works....
I do think it's a utopia idea and I don't see it happening. Instead of abolishing the police the world needs to focus on anger issues, mental health and healthy eating which is core to mental health. So there is so much work to be done and as Trevor pointed out there will always be those that don't go along with it. Such as now the anti mask wears and anti Vax people. We will always need some policing for those people. Don't mean to be a downer but this is not new.
excellent!
It will be by no means an easy feat (what liberatory, democratic endeavor is?) but her argument makes great sense. Just as our society imagined police as a solution to a myriad of social ills, which they have failed at preventing (and often exacerbate) we can imagine/invest in new solutions to those ills. If we designed a society aligned with the ideals that our constitution and laws profess to value, what kind of world this could be 👏🏾. Dr King said it best: "All we say to America is, 'Be true to what you said on paper. '"
Firstly, I openly admit that I, as a young black male, aspire to go into law enforcement myself. Secondly, I'm sorry but I have to say that this is some performative BS, that at best makes zero sense, or at worse is absolutely dangerous. I completely get that we all want to feel safe at all times, be able to live our lives without the need to constantly look over our shoulders for the slightest sign of danger, but no matter how much we want that for ourselves and future generations that won't negate two longstanding truths that people are what they are and have been for thousands of years, and that violence is far reaching and can effect others at anytime and anywhere, and no amount of social or law enforcement protection can, for the most part, change that, we try to mitigate it, but never truly change it. Sincerely, I don't mean to be a fear monger and to stoke people's anxieties or fears about their safety, but I don't think as a society we would be better served by ignoring these truths no matter how much we desire a "police-free society." Ignorance is bliss, but it also can be dangerous. Police need reform and better funding going into areas like proper emergency response, training, quality recruitment and retention, community engagement, and criminal rehabilitation to better serve the public; not abolish leaving the public wide open to the dangers, abuse, and intimidation from criminals. We need better police, not no police.
But really focusing back more on the segment itself, I have some thoughts:
1) Purnell firstly argues that regardless of the current amount of sworn officers in the US, people already don't feel safe, not from crime and not from the police. What that statement highlights is that people are aware of the constant threat of danger that unfortunately comes with living a society, where the threat of violence is ubiquitous and can come from anywhere, whether it be from those who supposedly love you like family or sit comes from a place of complete randomness like a stranger on the sidewalk, or even outside the borders of the US; making it that more important for there to be a well funded, trained, informed, and equipped institution to exist to respond to some of the worse situations imaginable, capable of intervening and resolving emergency situations as they happen
2) Purnell then argues that police don't prevent crimes, a statement that for the most part defeats itself. Its a statement that only validates itself through hindsight, and only proves the obvious truth that police officers are not clairvoyant and are unable to see into the future. That and combined with the fact that there are certain laws and restrictions in place that protect everyone's right to privacy and due process, promoting "innocent until proven guilty," police are oftentimes put a position where they have to wait for a crime to occur for them to take action. Also, especially in crimes relating to murders, rapes, kidnappings, and the likes, while its true that oftentimes arrest occurs only after the fact of the crime, that arrest prevents the offender from committing the again, protecting others from harm who would have otherwise been made victims of, saving lives.
3) Purnell argues that a strong economy, education, jobs, and healthcare are guaranteed to eliminate crime. As a person raised in a singe low income household, in no way am I arguing against a better economy, better education, and better healthcare, the issue I take with this argument is that it frames crime as solely being a symptom of a dysfunctional society, as oppose to being a symptom of society in-general; that crime is a result of human circumstance instead of human greed. Selfish desires like money, respect, and feelin of a thrill are oftentimes peoples motivating factors for committing particularly violent crimes and that's unlikely to change no matter how strong societal infrustructure becomes especially as long as there is "more" to be gained. There have been plenty of cases involving well-off people engaging in heinous crimes lawyers involved in human trafficking, doctors trafficking of narcotics and pharmaceutical pills, and wealthy people committing murders, rapes, crimes against children, and fraud against already poor people. Strengthening societal infrastructures is a must we shouldn't confuse it for a solution to human dysfunctions.
Honestly, I can go on, Purnell's statements towards the end about most crimes being committed by men wanting to control the sexuality of women is a lot in it of itself and the idea of "abolish the police" is an utterly nonsensical scheme that seems to be backed up vague arguments that refuses to recognize the independent agency a person who commits an act of violence has, but this entire segment puts the issue I have with late night talk shows on full display. Having a supposedly thorough discussion about a topic but offering the bare minimum in the way of resistance ultimately resulting in a performative puff piece for the guest that presents their point as unmistakingly valid.
Ultimately, I don't know Purnell personally, but don't see her anytime soon investigating and hunting down murders or rapists, I don't see her taking on violent, high level narcotic, firearm, or human trafficking organizations. But really, in all honestly, necessary
i find it kinda peculiar how people outside of america understand defunding or abolition of police better than americans even though in most other countries this won't work. it's almost as if what america does now is probably gonna impact the future of gen z outside of america
Great work Trevor. I personally recommend you to all my friends.
If you arrest a killer you prevent them from killing other people in public now in jails it’s all segregation if you don’t think so you haven’t be to a prison or jail
Why call it "Police abolition" if supposedly it is merely "police obsolescence"
2:50 arresting them prevents future murders and rapes. I don’t think she’s thought this through. What about serial killers?
It’s a great idea to build up education.
Economy and all that. But there are always bad seeds and mental illness.
you know serial killers are not as common as people think? we just have so much media that makes it seem like there’s a serial killer in every corner and that’s just not true. if the billions we spent on policing every year went into mental health, food security, housing, etc there would be so much less crime. statistically most crimes are property crimes.
Mad Max, what do you call the car chase?
Maybe the narrative should not be "abolish the police", but "build a society where, one day, we could abolish the police"? It is just a matter of tenses 😊
As long as there have been humans there has been violence and the need to protect the weak and the innocent. It's got nothing to do with society, it's human nature.
Utopia does not exist.
Go tell that to the victims killed by criminals gangster
This sounds like a conversation in highschool when you have all of these ideas before you really lived. There was less murders in the 1950's than now, but why? When the American family structure is healed and father's are back in the house raising their boys and girls than things go back in order.
There was a study on elephants with the older alpha male removed from their herd. The young male elephant testosterone surge and started acting overly aggressive. They were aggressive towards the females and babies in the herd. They also started exhibiting destructive behavior by ways of ripping up roots from trees and not allow other in to goto the water holes. They again inserted an older alpha male elephant in herd. The younger male elephants challenged the alpha and the alpha won. Then the younger male elephants testosterone drop significantly and they start behaving like how they supposed to behave. The herd became stabilized again. We need strong men back into the family structure and our society will start to heal.
2:27 👍🏼
Cheers
🥃✌🏼🙏😎
WOW!
I'm sure there is a stat somewhere that I can't find of people somehow getting killed from buckets 😅
I believe that a mental health professional or crisis counselor should be sent to any call for people having mental health problems, or domestic violence situations. If they realize it is that kind of situation when they get there, they should be legally bound to call those folks in immediately and try to stay out of the situation as much as possible. A few hours of training for these situations, each year, isn't going to help the Police solve these issues. They require people with degrees and an understanding of the situation.
yup. I think police should train to be general or specialized just like doctors do. I feel like this would help to sharpen their skills in identifying/diffusing/resolving specific situations. And may help to lighten their work/stress levels... In a way re-structuring of the current policing system would be an abolition. So a more concrete idea of what their version of abolition would be nice for the abolitionists to define. In order for them to succeed they have to discuss this outside of the echo chambers with persons who would challenge their ideas.
@@Akilahfoye It seemed like even she realized that abolition isn't really attainable in our lifetimes, but something to work toward. Which I agree with. I meant for them to call a separate professional, but I do like the idea of Police specializing.
Fund it.
We don’t have enough money to give out police body armor or proper uniforms... much less a part time or on call crisis consoling!
Those are usually the most dangerous calls for police so it would be better just to train them to deal with those situations so we don't end up sending people to their deaths
Seattle shows what could happen if you have no cops.
I think that's their point
Really, call Desch. Located in Eastgate.
Derecka, want to experience police abolishment, come live in Honduras, you are welcome.
Have people not heard of supply and demand? As if Dunkin wasn't expensive enough as it is. Sure abolish the police so our coffee and donuts can inflate by a few thousand percent. Smh.
Can’t wait to read this!!
@7:00 is the best analogy I have yet heard, to explain the intent behind the pooly-named defund/abolish ideas. Both "defund" and "abolish," when followed by "the police," are scary concepts and unappealing titles, and often that's the entirety of the info upon which people build their entire opinion. If it could be explained like that, I believe it would be a far more popular set of ideas.
No, abolinists are people that want to get rid of the roof.
If they want the popularity of these ideas to increase they have to stop dodging the two main questions:
In a practical and legal sense how do we transition?
And what do we do with murderers and rapists etc after abolishing police and prison?
Until they actually answer these, rather than dodge them, no one will be accepting of these ideas.
Everyone have mental illness thats why you can't stop the crime.
If you like something, you can do crime for it.
When some random guy hurt someone you like, you will think killing him was REASONABLE.
But if u dont have any feeling, u cant be human.
When u can hurt someone but u think its right, u have to know that u r crazy.
No one know whats right n wrong, but everything can be wrong even if u do it right.
I went into this interview thinking, wow, somewhat of an insane idea, but she articulates it so well, I could hear it out, and it even made sense.
Same lol
The police aren't really our focus. We're concerned with sky high crime in the cities. The people want criminals off the streets and an end to rampant crime and victimization.
There's been an upswing in homicide, but most kinds of crime are not sky-high. In fact, most of those categories are still in decline, or have at least flatlined.
@@scottcharney1091 Did you catch the news coming out of Chicago today? My comment aged well. The mayor Lori Lightfoot was ousted and it wasn't even close. Violence in that city increased by 52% from last year and over 100% from 2021. There's a runoff next month but Paul Vallas, the normal on crime candidate who wants to make the city safer and actually supports the police is the cleaar frontrunner.
@@X2LR8 True, and irrelevant. I wrote that there has been an upswing in homicides.
The police need to be changed not abolished
During the transitional period, perhaps, but ultimately, we don't want to keep getting different kind of buckets, we want to fix the roof and abolish the buckets. We don't want our slogans to inspire progress to be "get a different bucket" we want it to be something along the lines of "how can we get rid of all these buckets?" The term "abolish" is simply a slogan that inspires more creative innovation.
@@damiangreen299 no I meant what I said there does need to be a revolutionary change of the police but we do need a police and abolishmement is not the solution
Now I really want to read her book - trusting you here, Trevor. Even though I must be honest and say that it kinda sounds like she hasn't thought that whole no police thing through to the end. Because even in a perfect society there will always be crime in one form or another...
Hunter-gatherer societies didn't even have a word for "crime" in any case that I can think of. Crime is a symptom of civilization.
I recommend reading Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.
@@LemurWhoSpoke well, we do know of a few massakers and murders committed in prehistoric times - so there still was crime.
@@LemurWhoSpoke how do you know that they didn't have a word for crime? The oldest written records in Humanity is about 5300 years old. We can only guess what the hunter-gatherer societies from before the Agricultural Revolution thought.
@@LemurWhoSpoke doesnt mean robbing and killing dindt happen in those times
You are being immensely easy on her. My first thought is she is extremely unintelligent, but I don’t believe that’s true. I believe she is intelligent. But she’s a liar. Because it would be easy to say there’s always gonna be somebody who commits crime, but she can believe that most crime comes from a lack of opportunity. People who make over $100,000 a year rarely commit any violent crime whatsoever. They actually don’t commit financial crime that much either. But that just stick with violent crime as an example. Even though they almost never commit violent crime, obviously they do commit it sometimes. So she can imagine a world where everybody commits crimes at approximately what people who make $100,000/year currently commit crimes. That would be virtually a perfect world. But she doesn’t act like that is actually a gold it would take a miracle to reach, she acts like you can actually eliminate every bit of crime. And that’s obviously preposterous.
Police as it is anywhere must go. It is not an effective institution to solve human problems.
You're alive and kicking, aren't you. Not so sure if that was the same without police.
I do feel safe. There were times I called the police and they always answered. And I'm a minority. I love the police. I don't own a gun and don't want to police anything myself.when there is a school shooter, call the police please.
@amber67bam I didn't say there Is police brutality. My neighbor is a black cop and a great man.
@amber67bam he knows more about being a cop and being black than you and if he doesn't think we should eliminate all police, I'm going to side with him. Your argument has nothing to do with the merits of her idea while my argument is that we shouldn't eliminate all police.
@amber67bam that's not what the lady is proposing. Stay on topic
Never advertise that you don't own gun, it makes you a target. School shootings would reduce or stop if they had more armed police and people with concealed permits in school.
If someone robs you by gun point and takes your bag, your keys, all your money, etc, 99.999 times out of 100, the police will not be there to intervene with that crime. Truthfully, even if the perp was caught, tried and convicted, you still have a high chance of not getting that stuff back..in fact, you would have had to spend the time, money and resources recovering your belongings and mental health way before conviction.
The idea is, what are the conditions that lead people to take from others? Is it possible we can reduce theft and robbery and the desire to take from others by providing opportunities and resources?
The police called, the perp MAYBE caught and maybe convicted sounds quick, sounds easier, but it’s reactive. It’s not sustainable. It doesn’t prevent robbery.
The video is "Unlisted" so thats why it has only a few views. I found it via twitter post. Probably a mistake because everyone should hear what Derecka Purnell has to say.
It will be posted later on RUclips channel
Hey, just wondering...what does "Unlisted" mean?
@@ravimakwana992 not in the main channel yet.means not directly uploaded
I found it in my feed a few minutes ago. Great interview!
@@erikserum9519 ohh...but I just found it in my subscription videos...in the channel "The Daily Show with Trevor Noah" Is that not the main channel?
Dear Derecka, READ William Blake's!
She said my thoughts better than I thought them. ❤️
Preeeeaaach!
Society needs enforcement. If it were up to here there would be gang controlled hood courts ruling black gang members innocent while white business owners defending against looting get put behind bars. Her whole argument then ends up becoming an analogy about buckets and water damage.
This is an insane take considering class and race oppression, racist ramblings of a lunatic
We need her help in Baltimore city
There's not a cop around for miles where I live, and I don't miss them.
Well you certainly don't need cops when there aren't people. People are the problem that requires cops
Scary that you don't get how crazy that is. It's so blatant I am not sure I can explain it and if a did not sure you would get it. I'll just say where I live I do need cops.
That lipstick is electric though.
Music too loud- uh, noise pollution Trev😑.
Unless they playing SWV on a Thursday 🙃.
Otherwise glazed windows are a thing. Sound proof was a great invention.
Really a long island table would not hurt. Futhi the camera angles would be great, as in we won't have to look at people's backheads while looking at you 😘.
So there are places in Detroit where police don’t go, do you think that is the safest part of Detroit?
There should remain a select few police officers like State Troopers who carry guns and such with the standard being a 'peace' officer with less than lethal weapons and larger oversight. Police Officers must graduate from peace officers.
P,
And what do they do when someone pulls a gun and all they have is a non lethal weapon
@@notamurderer6226 use the LTL weapon. swat does it all the time with pepper bullets to take people alive, and a single pepper bullet has plenty stopping power.
To be honest, Trevor is making a better argument in her favor than she is....!
Been shouting this concept at the top of my lungs. However, no one is ready to make ANY COMMITTMENTS! Our society is complacent with NOT solving problems. On the flip side, our society is NOT complacent with what tangible things, monies, and pseudo-power we must pocess.
I am not here for abolishing the police but I am 100% here for extreme defunding, dismantling, and doing a 180 on training them
If you defund the police, how are you going to pay for additional training? Honest question, not taking a side here. Paying Teachers more leads to better teachers, some of the police talk sounds counter intuitive. I don't have an answer.
@Robert Arnold That military grade stuff is practically given to them for free which is Another problem to tackle. Fed programs 1033 and 1122 pay for it.
@@bairdbiz if you don't have an answer, buy the book. Abolitionists have the answers.
Let’s just make better trained officers instead of hiring any washed up highschool drop out with a grudge into the force
Unfortunately the reality of government is that it always goes for the lowest bidder, so hiring policy is that they hire from the least qualified so as to pay less.
It's not about training. It's about their immunity. They are not held accountable. All they have to say is they feared for their life. Even if the shooting is deemed a bad shot the victims' families get a payout from tax payers. The police have no skin in the game.
Does the book say which day we should Purge?
😂😂😂😂😂
are they not? 7:19
Definitely buying this book!
If you abolish the police, it'll be a Trayvon Martin everyday
So when an angry person with a gun is kicking in your door you just ask him why hes doing that and that will solve the problem or do you call 911 and hope the cops get there in time?
Remove the gun and what does the angry person have?
Neither; you make sure your Glock 19 is ready for them. Then you can call the clean up crew... errr I mean cops
*narrator's voice* The cops won't get there in time.
@@freedumb_3.0 a bat? a knife? fists?
@@DarkShadowPain twitter?
There are bad (thieves, rapists, murderers, bullies etc.) people in the best of societies. How do you protect the rest of the people without a force like the police?
Abolishing the police because some bad apples is throwing the baby with the bath water. Makes no sense!
she basically to me just wants chaz
Why doesn't she focus all her efforts on "conditioning" people not to commit crime first, rather than removing cops?
Seal up the hole in the roof and the buckets will be obsolete.
The truth is, she wants the buckets thrown out long before any attention gets paid to the roof, if it ever does. She wants the floor to flood
This is too idealistic and unreasonable. Our society as it stands is not mature enough to even begin moving in this direction. Our best bet is to make sure the police are held accountable for their actions, abolish the war on drugs and poverty by eliminating certain laws and policies and last focus on a rehabilitation based public prison system that restores all rights to all but the worst offenders so the rate of recidivism is reduced.
“Rehabilition based prison” is an oxymoron. If you wanna rehabilitate someone and make them a functioning member of a society you dont isolate them from society with other people who have done anti-society things. data will show you that the effects of prisons are opposite to rehabilitation
The craziest people have the loudest voices
Amazing positivity, that clearly makes sense. Root cause research and application problem solving does it again. Much continued success.
One of the root causes is the breakdown of the nuclear family and the absence of Father's.
How do you fix that?
LOL - Trevor is scared about the absence of police but not about the fact that cops always turn up after a crime already has happened. 🤣
Yes we should always work to solve the root causes of crime. However, I think a well-funded police department will always be necessary. Our world is not perfect and this idea of a utopia that doesn’t need any police just isn’t realistic.
Sorry but nah you can’t get rid of the police it’s insane to think about this it’s nuts
Yeah..
I mean.. I totally get where she's coming from and all that, and I absolutely agree that we need to seriously reimagine what policing in America looks like, but I don't believe completely getting rid of all policing is the solution.
It's absolutely impossible to get rid of all crime, so we do need law enforcement to do just that - enforce the law. I'm totally for the concept of dradtically shrinking the police funding and number of police, and instead offer strong social programs that prevents crime from happening.. but even in the most utopic and safe world, crime will never be eradicated. We should absolutely focus more on prevention, that's key to true reform and justice.. but that's complicated, and requires reform on not just policing, but every other aspect of governing. That includes ensuring affordable and quality housing for every single person, ensuring affordable/free, quality and accessable health care to again literally every single person, ensuring every single person quality employment with quality pay, the list goes on.. you get the idea. The thing is though, even with all these things in place, you'll never be able to 100% prevent all crime. Proper policing is not just about preventing crime, but bringing justice when it occurs, which it always inevitably will. That's just the sad reality.
We need reasonable solutions that actually makes sense. American policing today is totally indefensable, and it needs to drastically and systematically change. We need to look more at alternatives to deal with homeless people, domestic disputes, drug issues, mental health crisis', and all non-violent offenses, but as well look critically at all existing laws, and reevaluate what we deem illegal and not. Prison reform is also massively important, as well as complete drug reform. Policing is a massive issue, but by far not the only issue. Police unions needs drastic change as well.
I just think that colmpletely aboloshing the police isn't reasonable.. a dradtic reduction on the other hand is reasonable AND necessary. Redistributing funding is as well - that's one of the more attainable solutions to the issue at large. Social programs supporting lifting people up and out of desperation, homelessness, health issues including drug addiction and all of these things are real solutions that can be done. Completely aboloshing the police simply isn't realistic. I certainly wish that COULD be a reality, but that's wishful thinking. We need to look at other solutions. I recommend looking at how other countries, those with the least amount of crime are doing policing.. they're obiviously doing something right, and have figured out great stuff that America hasn't yet. That includes getting money and "lobbying", aka legal bribery out of politics, so real solutions CAN take place, instead of quality, meaningful policies being dead at arrival due to police unions, prison "lobbyists" etc. bribing politicians to not change anything.
Money in politics is what we keep coming back to - it truly is the root of all evil, and the thing that mostly obstructs progress from taking place.
Even if you disagree with the idea of abolishing police; it's not insane to think about the concept. I mean, you're just thinking. How else are we supposed to figure out what works best if we're afraid to consider out of the box ideas? Solutions we dislike, can often be the catalyst for solutions that we do like:)
"In patriarchy men are conditioned....We can teach them". How exactly would that teaching look different from the conditioning? There is just a nicer ring to that word.
Both of those words have definitions... you should look them up.
Well, for the starters, a charitable interpretation would be that teaching involves questioning the basic assumptions about society, the status quo, and deconstructing it. It'd be something along the lines of---the way our society is structured, is it natural?; Can we devise better methods of organizations that's democratic and fulfilling to all who're involved instead of working for just privileged individuals/groups. That's basically all the social sciences for you, asking questions about why the society is the way it is, and can their be better alternatives. Prison abolition is a part of that equation alongside police abolition. There's a broad swath of literature on it, it's just that people who like to harp over "thinking outside the box" do not actually think outside the box, you see, sociology is too much work.
I think this is a beautiful idea. A beautiful concept and certainly something we should aim for to some extent but lacks realism. What fears me (and I heard apprehension from Trevor as well) hyping people up over something that could take centuries to achieve. The advertisement should be getting people on board for the first baby steps and seeing success from that will build support for a bigger goal. I haven’t read her book but other teachings about abolition and it is a common gap.
she hasn't even said a word and he's already completely framed the issue as a personal political fight.
because it is, police abolishing is anarchist ideal. It's merely political.
@@kitcloudkicker14 yeah fr its never gonna happen
So the bucket is the problem? Hes just there to keep you from drowning...
acab forever and always. i'm definitely gonna read that book. thx, derecka. solidarity to you.
ACAB is a terrible generalization. We're supposed to be the ones against broad, sweeping generalizations about entire groups of people.
@@thenostalgiabusiness I disagree
@@vinw3246 That's fine, but why?
@@thenostalgiabusiness maybe read that long reply I wrote
@@vinw3246 Where? I don't see it.
I am frustrated that she didn't answer Trevor's question about what do we do if a crime is committed. No, police don't always have the answers but at least there is someone looking for those answers. Policing in this country is not perfect and we do need to invest in Social systems that will better care for our people. But I do not agree that Law Enforcement should be abolished. We do not live in a perfect world, unfortunately. There will always be a need for law/order/justice.
I believe in police/prison abolition and am willing to have a conversation regarding that question if you are open to it.
What category does she fall into ruclips.net/video/4TKQ7cqiD4Q/видео.html