@@tourist6290its how they separate their tiers, thatll never vanish. Every company does it. Like x and x3d on amd or k etc on intel, cars, houses, sizing formats etc all have a name that makes them different
I was literally just at Micro Center and saw X870 boards [starting] at $229. It still had 5Gbe, 2x USB4 ports, Gen 5 PCIE, and WiFi built in. It’s really not bad given that the “worst” X870 is still on the higher end of things.
11:20 CORRECTION: Internal HDMI port, usually used nowadays for people who would like to utilise an internal panel in their case peeps, Overclockers don't give a stiff pertaining to this. Its internal so as to bypass routing a cable out back into the motherboard or GPU. Thanks Paul and Peace!❤❤☮☮
If you want an overbuilt board, the last gen asrock x670e taichi is plenty and already had usb 4. Only appeal of the new ones for me is stuff like quick release and moving around some buttons/leds
@@KiltedCritic almost forgot since it really doesnt feel that big compared to say a godlike or whatever asus version is since e-atx isnt a real standard
The one meaningful reason I can think of to not use that x670e taichi is that it only has 1 M.2 slot with gen 5 NVMe. Some other manufacturers allow for up to 3 slots, although they require you to downgrade your GPU slot to only 8x lanes, and the second x16 physical slot is usually routed through the chipset instead of CPU.
@@paulshardware asus still has their x670e proart with built in 10gb, and add in cards can fit on the bottom pcie 4x slot. msi has 10gb but they would charge $800
Why even use 5 Gbit when 10 Gbit is so well established in the industry?? Most common NICs like the Intel X540 only support 1 or 10 Gbit, but are super available for consumers.. So by having 2.5 or 5 Gbit, you might run into stability issues on the network. Which is why i upgraded to the X550 on my NAS, but 5 Gbit devices are rare and doesn't make sense! Just give us 10 Gbit LAN and make it the norm instead.. Or ditch the 40 Gbit USB-C ports which I'll NEVER use anyway..
I can appreciate wanting to save as much as possible. But there are also a lot of quality of life improvements with spending just a bit more cash on a motherboard. Take the MSI Tomahawk x870 for example. On that board you get screwless heatsinks, GPU lock, Error code reader.. etc. Plus, gen 2 boards almost always iron out the bugs from gen 1 boards. I would never pay retail, and anyone who currently uses a b650 or x670 board has little reason to upgrade. But for new system builders looking to finally get on AM5 I think these new X870 and the inevitable b850 boards will be the better buys. Especially when they inevitably fall in prices.
I'm happy with B650E performance as it is. HUB already stated that the gaming performance of X870 is virtually identical to X670 (and most likely B650 as well).
Well X670(E) and X870(E) are the exact same chip so it's obviously identical in performance. And i don't even know where people are still getting this nonsense that somehow chipset affects performance to begin with. Ever since the memory controller got moved to the CPU the only thing that motherboards can affect is signal strength through the quality of the PCB (but this is entirely separate thing from the chipset and only depends on the manufacturer and it's market segmentiation) and what the PCIe/M2 layout is.
@@adamtajhassam9188 I think the only thing noteworthy abt these boards is the wifi-7 support but I heard they still run at wifi 6e speeds, so then the extendable antenna maybe.
No X870 is not can only speak for my pricing region but if I'd want a 670E I'd still have to pay a minimum of 345€ for the cheapest board 670E (and in part 650E) are still bloody expensive
I've got an ASUS Prime X670E-Pro WiFi running a 7800X3D. I "should" be good for another 5 or 6 years so whatever Intel or AMD drops in the meantime will just be a "fun to watch" video/information. Sorry PC makers and Auto Industry, but I certainly do not need a new "thing" every year, advertising to the contrary.
That MSI Tomahawk board is unique. It's the only X870(E) board available that allows M.2_2 to run at full 5.0x4 by disabling USB4 instead of making M.2_2 share bandwidth from the PCIe x16 slot lanes.
yeah tomahawk is the only x870/x870e board that is not terrible in this regard the x670e boards are much better the video completely misses to mention that which is the biggest issue of the x870 mandatory usb4 feature....no idea why it's called explanation/rant, it's just a dumb product showcase with no added value
@@HeadBassVTEC Update: turns out the MSI MEG X870E Godlike also has the same design--you can fully disable USB4 and get full 5.0x4 speed on M2_2 without losing PCIe x16 lanes from the GPU.
@@nleippe I can't even find the godlike for sale in any local shop but pretty sure it will be about $600 if not $700 so the msi tomahawk and godlike are the only x870e boards I would want to have (with the tomahawk the only reasonably priced I would actually buy)...the carbon wifi also has that stupid lane sharing between m2_2 and primary pcie....what a crappy am5 generation I am not really in need to upgrade to AM5 anyway, just that I was a little sad that I did not upgrade my 5600x to 5800x3d before they axed it so was looking at the current AM5 boards, but really in most games I am gpu limited even with 4080, in only few games the 5800x3d would give me more fps as I play in 3440x1440@144Hz currently the best value mobo is the ASUS ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI, it has pcie5 for gpu, for two m.2s and external bclk overclocking....if I was buying 7800x3d today that is the best board to have from all 670/870 boards in b670e almost no boards have the eclk, only aorus master and extreme and according to buildzoid it doesn't work well on GB boards and then taichi/taichi lite taichi lite is the best board for the money but I can't stand their designs, taichi boards are always the ugliest....dunno why they make the taichis that ugly, the tomahawks are usally cool looking, currently on b550 tomahawk max wifi and the only thing that sucks is lack on usb-a ports but memory support is much better than x470 crosshair hero I had even though that board was twice as expensive the 9800x3d might actually have unlocked multiplier, but that will probably only allow fixed all-core OC while the eclk allows for overclocking while keeping the nice boosting algorithm for higher since core freq
My B450 Tomahawk handled my R7 1700 to my R7 5700x3d with bios updates since 2017 for 130$. Look at the longevity and performance increase over 7/8 years. Still strong as hell and AM4 is the GOAT.
There will be differences in UEFI features and RAM support. The 800 series chipsets will likely all support CUDIMM DDR5 with the Ryzen 8000 and 9000 CPUs. They also supposedly made changes to improve the memory traces on 800 series boards. The chipset itself is the same, but other features may make these worth it for 9000 series CPU owners. I have a 7800X3D on a ROG Crosshair X670E Hero so I can only hope that I'll get UEFI updates that add things like CUDIMM support with newer CPUs.
as long as they keep the 2 useless dimm slots/antennas it's no use DDR5 never worked and never will work properly with 4 dimms they need to stop the lie and remove those slots that nobody can use at proper speeds buildzoid explained x times leaving empty slots was bad and oc dedicated boards only have 2 there's a reason why
@@rangersmith4652 Not necessarily. For running Local Al faster ram may be beneficial. I hope sooner or later we will not need Vram for this purpose just fast Ram, lot or it. Still cheaper than buying 3 or 4 graphic cards.
I think the HDMI port on the Gigabyte X870E Aorus Master board is for the little mini displays people like to put in their computer case and have it display temps and speeds. EDIT: I do like the heatsink size on the Aorus Master board compared to the other 2 brands, apparently PCI 5.0 NVMe drives can get toasty.
I’m still on a 12700k with ddr4 and even watching reviews it’s super hard justifying upgrading my system yet for 2 reasons. One mainly when the hell did mobos get this expensive? Also mainly when looking into the 13,14th gen intel and ryzen 9000 cpus they all seem to have either really bad instability issues or there isn’t much of performance gain from the pervious gen 7000 series. This amd refresh seems like a panic move lol.
@@blakecasimir I have a 3080ti my issue is that I video edit and sometimes I like to over complicate my editing with masking stuff soo premier Pro likes to shit itself and I can never tell if it’s the cpu or ram (32gb currently). I upgraded from a 3700x to my current cpu because having 2 different obs footage playing side by side chugs it. I can only really see the gpu going to 100% and it only using one part of it. It’s very annoying issue if you like comparing things with video footage
@@DingleBerryschnapps I like staying in the loop to know if it’s worth it ya know! My pc runs fine but since editing with adobe software sometimes you can never know what upgrade may fix it or u spend $600 and it not fix the issue 😭
@3:41 A value-add of extra IO is a sound proposition. But, when I shop for motherboards and go up to the X670E I see no more or even fewer PCIe slots, m.2 slots, and/or SATA ports on the motherboards. So I guess I am just getting more USB connectivity. Is that correct?
Looking for budget options in a brand new product lineup at launch? You are going to need more than a pair of glasses to find such a rare bird in the fields of online shopping. Maybe something like this could be found in a Microcenter Bundle that you have to buy in store if you are extremely lucky. Really these boards seem to be requiring forward-looking options like pcie gen 5, looking at the next gen GFX cards there obviously. Nobody wants to release a board that is not going to be able to handle a new card within a few months of launch. Much better speeds on connections, moving from 6 to 7 on wi-fi, dropping gen 2 USB in some cases, more nice to have buttons, LED readouts are all general improvements. Let the initial price frenzy subside and buy on sale, as everyone really should be doing imo. For me the out of the box RAM compatibility is a sweet addition considering the platforms problems in this regard previously. Most buyers really want those working out of the box and to not have a need to fiddle with timings or updates to the Bios to get running I feel. And really if you are in the B series market to start with, stay there and leave the X series alone. Everyone should know which side of the board (heh heh...) they are on with the extras by now.
@@Valthalin are these motherboards without rear USB 2.0 support still providing internal headers for it? Cases often have front panel USB 2.0, and there are some devices that don't play nice with USB3 due to shielding of the power delivery (some Elgato devices, GPS receivers etc)
You mention in passing that 'recent' boards have WiFi 7 support - this is actually the other differentiator for X870(E) that you didn't mention. It's been a real hassle finding WiFi 7 cards that are reliably compatible with earlier X670(E) boards, which all have WiFi 6E; having this built in saves the hassle down the line.
Gigabyte was really hoping that everyone will Snatch up their AI motherboard. How the hell does the naming "Snatch" make it without somebody laughing and saying that might not be a good idea!
Got the B650 Aorus Elite AX motherboard for my build last year and it has been plenty good enough. I originally wanted a MB that had the USB 4, but they were all much more expensive at the time and didn't want to spend that much more for a port that, when I really thought hard about it, wasn't going to use anytime soon, if ever. I actually considered that ASRock board in addition to a couple others of theirs, but I liked the features on the Gigabyte a bit more. Planning to carry this MB all the way through to the end of AM5. I'm not missing wifi 7 or USB 4.
I could understand last gens since it was a new chipset and also using DDR5 Ram, but this gen doesn't have the same excuse, it should realistically be cheaper than last gens launch price.
It would be a mistake to assume that there's no difference between any given X670E board and its re-released X870E counterpart, even if the former did already have USB4 chips. Take the case of the Asus X670E/X870E Proart boards. Superficially they look practically identical, but significant alterations have been made to PCI-E lane distribution, and either one of the boards could be superior depending on the user's requirements. The X670E board has the USB4 controllers routed to the chipset, while the X870E revision has those controllers connected to CPU lanes instead. This has positive consequences for USB4 performance and congestion on the chipset, but potential negative consequences for M.2 expandability (populating the second M.2 5.0 slot will reduce the primary PCI-E slot to 8x). It's likely that similar differences exist in other boards now that it's mandatory to have USB4 controllers on CPU lanes for X870E.
My complaint is similar. going up in series from 670 to 870 there is no increase in the quantity of PCIE lanes directly accessing the cpu, both versions give the customer just 24 channels to allocate for their own choices.
I was waiting for the 9000 12-Core and X870E, I was underwhelmed and totally put off by the high prices in Canada. $700 just for the CPU. So I bought a new Intel 12700K 12-Core instead for $200 and built a system around that. It is to replace my old i7-6950X X99 64GB RTX-2060 system. 12700K is 200% the performance of the 6950X, plus I went with 192GB DDR5.
There's some big caveats with the extra gen 5 m.2 slots below the top x16 g5 slot, that seems to be present on all the Aorus boards (and probably other 870 boards). It shares bandwidth with the m.2 slots, and will downgrade to a pcie x8 connection if they are used. And that's for the *primary* GPU slot. This isn't nearly as much of an issue on a lot of x670(e) boards since most opt for g4 x4 slots for the m.2 drives. Definitely pay attention to the tech specs when it comes to the "sharing" of slot bandwidth and if that will be an issue for you for your planned configuration.
This was an excellent overview and dive into the AM5 chipsets available. Super useful and accessible information & advice, and timely to boot (heh). Thank you Paul!
I thought I heard or read that x870 had more PCIE-5 lanes. Same total number of PCIE lanes but like 4 or 8 that were previously PCIe4 are now PCIe5 so that M.2 storage didn't have to share PCIe5 lanes with the graphics slot. Did I get that wrong?
I am between MSI's 1. x870 Tomahawk wifi 2. x870 Pro Wifi 3. x670e Tomahawk wifi I am an advanced mixed use user, willing to get a 12 core cpu in the final zen5 series to extend its mobo life.
New sub here. I've been building my own Pc since the days of the 486 but thru out the years tech has really jump to the point that I can't keep up so I appreciate your channel in helping us old guys keep in touch with whats going on. Since my am4 is due for an upgrade should I look at these "Ai capable" Am5 mobo preferably at the entry level, my ol lady would freak if I spent more than 300 on just a motherboard! Im not into gaming more into video/audio editing instead. Thanks.
For me Wifi 7 is a huge reason to go with the new boards. Will upgrade my Home Setup next year to wifi 7 and don't want to add a seperate Wifi card. Very informative Video! Thanks
What is the difference as I assume there is one between an X series Motherboard vs a B series Motherboard. As in an X870 vs a B650 etc? What does the letter denotes?
I'm building an all-white rig currently, because I like being stressed out while hunting for parts. But I picked up the Gigabyte X870 AORUS Elite WiFi7 Ice MoBo for $279 with a $15 rebate. At Micro Ctr.
Thank you Paul! Either I am not looking hard enough or there are not enough dives into motherboards and their features, plus what features are actually useful. Why would you choose an X series board over a B series? Does the E extension provide more value? What features are better suited for gaming focused PCs vs production focused, or a hybrid of the two?
Question: What is max no. displays (4K @ 60Hz) which can be connected to these X870/X870E boards, to be driven from iGPU on 9900X? I understand all these boards have 1x HDMI and 2x USB 4 (supporting DP over USB). In principle, each USB 4 port could output to two 4K displays @ 60Hz (using an MST USB-C to dual DP adaptor). So I wonder whether it might be possible to drive FOUR, or even FIVE 4K @ 60Hz displays from the iGPU via X870/X870E Mobo? (of course, another limitation is max no 4K @ 60Hz displays supported by 9900X iGPU itself, I heard this might be a max of FOUR, but unconfirmed?) I am planning new build using Ryzen 9900X and an X870/X870E Mobo. Will not be used for gaming, for productivity only. I won’t install a discrete graphics card, will rely only on integrated graphics. I wonder if the answer is the SAME for all these X870/X870E Mobos, or would some of them allow to connect more 4K displays than others?
I am a little confused - you talked about "additional connectivity" for the 1st half of the video, but none of those boards had as many PCIe slots as my X570.
Sorry buddy it's too late,the corporations realized they could take away features and sell them back to you at a premium. The shareholders need a new yacht you know,won't you think of the shareholders?
Hey Paul. Would you mind a question? My best options right now for a 9800x3d setup is the MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk Wifi and the MSI PRO X870-P. The latter is 30€ cheaper. What would be your pick? Thanks!
I don't get it. adding a break in the naming (skipping 700) would indicate something major, not... a minor, MINOR revision that adds features nobody even has a use for yet (like USB4). And for 1/3 more money!
This would be for a Gaming Pc for a Motherboard i'm stuck on what to choose either the ASUS ROG STRIX X870-F GAMING WIFI Or GIGABYTE X870E AORUS ELITE WIFI7?
I decided to upgrade from AM4 to AM5 last week. I already purchased a 7900x (not x3d, because I'm not a gamer) for $340 and I ordered my B650 mobo an hour ago. I'll be buying RAM this weekend. I bought the cpu used on ebay and the mobo (MSI B650M Mortar WiFi) used-ish on Amazon (listed as used excellent like new condition).
I got the B650 Mortar WiFi + 7900 XTX + 7800X3D + 32GB DDR5 RAM during Black Friday 2023 - very happy with this setup for 1440p gaming so far. My only regret is the NZXT H5 Flow case (too noisy and cheap tooling).
Im building a new pc and i got a ryzen 9 9950x and I'm between the MSI x670 gaming plus and the MSI x870 carbon. Would the upgrade be worth it at around 200 extra buck ?
Having so many motherboard classifications really is extremely confusing, then add the countless models from each brand. How long until PCIE 5.0 GPU capability will be worthwhile?
will these new boards help with the slow boot times with AM5. I currently have the MSI x670 Carbon and the boot times are insane. Sometimes im not sure if the PC is stuck.
So, what would be a good choice for a white motherboard, to assemble a 7800X3D or even 9800X3D? I am not a pro user, don't need 1000 usb ports or NVME connections, but would be nice to buy something decent that would last me a few generations. Should I buy last gen X670E or B650E?
Question Mr. Paul, do you know if the Wifi 7 antennae is unique? I'm looking at getting a X670/B650 and just swapping out the wifi card for a 7 at some point, but don't know jack about the antennas from 6E to 7 wifi standard, only that the standards themselves are different.
@@myselfalex You will see, when you don't direct the antennas not towards the wall behind the metal box that the PC is, your reception will increase more than with some extra long antennas. The gain is minimal....
The Gigabyte X870E AORUS Pro Ice is sooooooooo pretty though! 😂 FYI The "internal" HDMI port on the Gigabyte boards is supposed to be for supporting a stat display.
@@SevenBlades, X870E should be fine. I currently run 2 gen 4 NVMe drives (Samsung 990 Pro) in a B650 board (no E) without any loss of read/write performance.
Will a b650 board be compatible with 9000 series cpus out of the box w/o a bios update? If not, how does one do a bios update without a 7000 series cpu?
I believe i read some manufacters have already installed the most recent update of bios right after someone purchase the motherboard So the user have no need to update it manually by putting everything and installing it just like very new system which just plugged in
wonder if the x870es will be able to run 4 sticks of ddr5 properly lol i have the msi x670e meg ace right now and even that cant boot with 4 sticks. i no u can mess around with setting to get it working but even then iv heard 2 sticks is better
I am so confused. I want to build a new pc for the first time. Do I wait for the next Amd cpus and or motherboards, or intel arrow lake or just build now.
unless someone really need USB 4.0 / Thunderbolt for "External GPU docking" (for a dekstop PC 🗿), there's no reason to upgrade from X680E / X680 to X870E / X870
Been a couple years since I last asked... but could you do a video on USB devices? Motherboards have so many USB ports now, but the only thing I ever really use them for is mouse, kb, flash drives or external storage. There are always left over ports that never get used. What can I do with them?
Awesomesauce video Paul and Joe! Paul looks for the kind of board that I look for. The lowest/cheaper version with the newest technologies. 😊 Caffeinator out.
For me the video was to long to watch completely. But a notion for the MSI Tomahawk X870. The second PCIe 5.0 M2 slot is only 2x connect because of the USB4. But you can deactivate the USB4 in the bios so you have PCIe 5.0 4x for that M2 slot as well connected to the CPU.
100000000000000000%, I know that I *always* blindly assume that a product will meet some arbitrary spec without spending 15 seconds looking up what it supports. I'm so happy Paul is looking out for people like me who are incapable of learning, reading, etc..
Since i trust your opinion, is there any itx or micro atx motherboards you'd recommend for creators? Ill be using 7950x until the 9950x3D comes out, i do mainly creator stuff, with gaming on the side.
You failed to mention on several of the 870 motherboards, that if u use more than 1 gen 5 nvme, it drops the x16 slot to a x8. Might want to mention that to people before they buy.
Can you use the DP Out on usb 4 if you have a GPU? Or you have to route a DP Cable from it to the MBoard? I could see the use if you have a economic build with Integrated graphics and a basic MoBo, but seems like a waste of DP out in a expensive setup
From what I remember this is an option since the AMD 7000 CPUs. I've looked it up, I think last year, but since I have an older CPU and AM4 platform there is no way for me to test it. It's a very little discussed feature.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I'd pay good money to NOT having idiotic AI branding on my PC parts, thank you very much!!
AI and GAMING are the worst. And these huge letters such as ROG or TUF can leave too.
it has become the new RGB gawdy marketing catch-all term!
@@tourist6290its how they separate their tiers, thatll never vanish. Every company does it. Like x and x3d on amd or k etc on intel, cars, houses, sizing formats etc all have a name that makes them different
My sister wants to marry you. I want to be the best man.
"AI" in the AI motherboards means autism infused.
Remember when motherboards used to only cost like $200 usd for the best of the best? Pepperidge farm remembers
since you specified "best of the best", then you are reaching so far back, you might as well not bother.
I was literally just at Micro Center and saw X870 boards [starting] at $229. It still had 5Gbe, 2x USB4 ports, Gen 5 PCIE, and WiFi built in. It’s really not bad given that the “worst” X870 is still on the higher end of things.
Back when you paired it with a single core cpu without HT and not even usb 2.0. It cost less then for a reason.
I don't...
I got an evga z97 classified for $400. I still use it and works great
11:20 CORRECTION: Internal HDMI port, usually used nowadays for people who would like to utilise an internal panel in their case peeps, Overclockers don't give a stiff pertaining to this. Its internal so as to bypass routing a cable out back into the motherboard or GPU. Thanks Paul and Peace!❤❤☮☮
If you want an overbuilt board, the last gen asrock x670e taichi is plenty and already had usb 4. Only appeal of the new ones for me is stuff like quick release and moving around some buttons/leds
Though worth mentioning that's an E-ATX sized board.
@@KiltedCritic almost forgot since it really doesnt feel that big compared to say a godlike or whatever asus version is since e-atx isnt a real standard
The one meaningful reason I can think of to not use that x670e taichi is that it only has 1 M.2 slot with gen 5 NVMe. Some other manufacturers allow for up to 3 slots, although they require you to downgrade your GPU slot to only 8x lanes, and the second x16 physical slot is usually routed through the chipset instead of CPU.
Or the B650E variant. I've been told that thee usb4 chip only provides up to 32 gigabit though, not the full 40.
The board that is still selling for 480€
gee, just say....
Thanks for this. Was debating on getting an X870 or X670 and i saw the price difference which made the X670 a no brainer. Saved over £200
im waiting for the day they make 10gb a standard for consumer boards without using another add in card
yeah ... me also ... anything less is just LAZY
True, I feel like they've dialed back on the 10Gb offerings in motherboards since 2.5Gb and 5Gb became a thing though
@@paulshardware asus still has their x670e proart with built in 10gb, and add in cards can fit on the bottom pcie 4x slot. msi has 10gb but they would charge $800
Why?
Why even use 5 Gbit when 10 Gbit is so well established in the industry?? Most common NICs like the Intel X540 only support 1 or 10 Gbit, but are super available for consumers.. So by having 2.5 or 5 Gbit, you might run into stability issues on the network. Which is why i upgraded to the X550 on my NAS, but 5 Gbit devices are rare and doesn't make sense! Just give us 10 Gbit LAN and make it the norm instead..
Or ditch the 40 Gbit USB-C ports which I'll NEVER use anyway..
I can appreciate wanting to save as much as possible. But there are also a lot of quality of life improvements with spending just a bit more cash on a motherboard. Take the MSI Tomahawk x870 for example. On that board you get screwless heatsinks, GPU lock, Error code reader.. etc. Plus, gen 2 boards almost always iron out the bugs from gen 1 boards. I would never pay retail, and anyone who currently uses a b650 or x670 board has little reason to upgrade. But for new system builders looking to finally get on AM5 I think these new X870 and the inevitable b850 boards will be the better buys. Especially when they inevitably fall in prices.
I absolutely can't wait to get it on with my Aorus AI snatch. Nothing sells computers like digital fanny named features.
I wonder how they tier their branding? Which is faster, the clunge, the chuff, the axe wound, or the foo foo
@@FredTheLard The Minge-Tier
Are you sure you want your PC to smell like fish?
Fake words are my favorite bri'ish prank.
"We totally say 'fanny' in real life like it's the actual word" haha,good one
I'm happy with B650E performance as it is.
HUB already stated that the gaming performance of X870 is virtually identical to X670 (and most likely B650 as well).
Wish I could be if they every produce 7800x3d again
Well X670(E) and X870(E) are the exact same chip so it's obviously identical in performance. And i don't even know where people are still getting this nonsense that somehow chipset affects performance to begin with. Ever since the memory controller got moved to the CPU the only thing that motherboards can affect is signal strength through the quality of the PCB (but this is entirely separate thing from the chipset and only depends on the manufacturer and it's market segmentiation) and what the PCIe/M2 layout is.
@@kerotomas1 i got almost 20usb device and hubs are not reliable...
So i have to go for x870(e) 🥺
@@ae86409888 well bro GG 😂 20 that’s insane
You need to shame these manufacturers for not including debug leds, etc in these expensive ass motherboards.
X870/X870E is too bloody expensive for what you get versus the X670E counterparts.
im still wondering if its really worth it - it was as expected small upgrades. the biggest uplift is usb 4.
or x370 for that matter
@@cadetsparklez3300still rocking mine 👌
@@adamtajhassam9188 I think the only thing noteworthy abt these boards is the wifi-7 support but I heard they still run at wifi 6e speeds, so then the extendable antenna maybe.
No X870 is not
can only speak for my pricing region but if I'd want a 670E I'd still have to pay a minimum of 345€ for the cheapest board
670E (and in part 650E) are still bloody expensive
The prices are out of control in Australia, the Msi Carbon wifi x870e comes in at $920aud
Always wild to me how much more expensive computer parts are when you don’t live in America. Its not like we manufacture them here either.
eek that is terrible 😫
Here in germany it's around 450 € (incl. 19% VAT) which is around $720 aud or $500 US.
We don't have the MSI boards yet, but the Aorus master is 618 USD or 898 AUD..
(We pay 25% VAT in Denmark)
It's the same price as a x570 meg ace was in 2019 here in uk at launch 420-450with 20% VAT included while expensive its not that bad
thanks paul nice to see a non news video from you and more of you int he week we do notice and appreciate :)
I've got an ASUS Prime X670E-Pro WiFi running a 7800X3D. I "should" be good for another 5 or 6 years so whatever Intel or AMD drops in the meantime will just be a "fun to watch" video/information. Sorry PC makers and Auto Industry, but I certainly do not need a new "thing" every year, advertising to the contrary.
The extra HDMI on one the Boards can probably be used for displays inside the case or on the front of the case.
That MSI Tomahawk board is unique. It's the only X870(E) board available that allows M.2_2 to run at full 5.0x4 by disabling USB4 instead of making M.2_2 share bandwidth from the PCIe x16 slot lanes.
lol tomahawk is a x870 only
@@aspyde your point?
yeah tomahawk is the only x870/x870e board that is not terrible in this regard
the x670e boards are much better
the video completely misses to mention that which is the biggest issue of the x870 mandatory usb4 feature....no idea why it's called explanation/rant, it's just a dumb product showcase with no added value
@@HeadBassVTEC Update: turns out the MSI MEG X870E Godlike also has the same design--you can fully disable USB4 and get full 5.0x4 speed on M2_2 without losing PCIe x16 lanes from the GPU.
@@nleippe I can't even find the godlike for sale in any local shop but pretty sure it will be about $600 if not $700
so the msi tomahawk and godlike are the only x870e boards I would want to have (with the tomahawk the only reasonably priced I would actually buy)...the carbon wifi also has that stupid lane sharing between m2_2 and primary pcie....what a crappy am5 generation
I am not really in need to upgrade to AM5 anyway, just that I was a little sad that I did not upgrade my 5600x to 5800x3d before they axed it so was looking at the current AM5 boards, but really in most games I am gpu limited even with 4080, in only few games the 5800x3d would give me more fps as I play in 3440x1440@144Hz
currently the best value mobo is the ASUS ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI, it has pcie5 for gpu, for two m.2s and external bclk overclocking....if I was buying 7800x3d today that is the best board to have from all 670/870 boards
in b670e almost no boards have the eclk, only aorus master and extreme and according to buildzoid it doesn't work well on GB boards and then taichi/taichi lite
taichi lite is the best board for the money but I can't stand their designs, taichi boards are always the ugliest....dunno why they make the taichis that ugly, the tomahawks are usally cool looking, currently on b550 tomahawk max wifi and the only thing that sucks is lack on usb-a ports but memory support is much better than x470 crosshair hero I had even though that board was twice as expensive
the 9800x3d might actually have unlocked multiplier, but that will probably only allow fixed all-core OC while the eclk allows for overclocking while keeping the nice boosting algorithm for higher since core freq
My B450 Tomahawk handled my R7 1700 to my R7 5700x3d with bios updates since 2017 for 130$. Look at the longevity and performance increase over 7/8 years. Still strong as hell and AM4 is the GOAT.
There will be differences in UEFI features and RAM support. The 800 series chipsets will likely all support CUDIMM DDR5 with the Ryzen 8000 and 9000 CPUs. They also supposedly made changes to improve the memory traces on 800 series boards. The chipset itself is the same, but other features may make these worth it for 9000 series CPU owners. I have a 7800X3D on a ROG Crosshair X670E Hero so I can only hope that I'll get UEFI updates that add things like CUDIMM support with newer CPUs.
Ok but far as dimms go. How fast before ya go past the suggested ratio for the infinity clock?
Yes, you should be able to run faster RAM that you bought for more money and get almost zero performance benefit from doing so. What a great deal.
as long as they keep the 2 useless dimm slots/antennas it's no use DDR5 never worked and never will work properly with 4 dimms they need to stop the lie and remove those slots that nobody can use at proper speeds buildzoid explained x times leaving empty slots was bad and oc dedicated boards only have 2 there's a reason why
@@rangersmith4652 Except, you know: we've already seen the performance benefits of faster RAM. You can get upwards of 5-10% uplifts in performance.
@@rangersmith4652 Not necessarily. For running Local Al faster ram may be beneficial. I hope sooner or later we will not need Vram for this purpose just fast Ram, lot or it. Still cheaper than buying 3 or 4 graphic cards.
Why did AMD skip from 600 series boards to 800? Where's X770 and B750?
I think the HDMI port on the Gigabyte X870E Aorus Master board is for the little mini displays people like to put in their computer case and have it display temps and speeds.
EDIT: I do like the heatsink size on the Aorus Master board compared to the other 2 brands, apparently PCI 5.0 NVMe drives can get toasty.
I’m still on a 12700k with ddr4 and even watching reviews it’s super hard justifying upgrading my system yet for 2 reasons. One mainly when the hell did mobos get this expensive? Also mainly when looking into the 13,14th gen intel and ryzen 9000 cpus they all seem to have either really bad instability issues or there isn’t much of performance gain from the pervious gen 7000 series. This amd refresh seems like a panic move lol.
If I had a 12700k I wouldn't even start watching tech videos again until at least the end of 2025.
Anyone on higher end AM4 are in the same boat IMHO. Maybe get a GPU upgrade before thinking about a platform upgrade...
@@blakecasimir I have a 3080ti my issue is that I video edit and sometimes I like to over complicate my editing with masking stuff soo premier Pro likes to shit itself and I can never tell if it’s the cpu or ram (32gb currently). I upgraded from a 3700x to my current cpu because having 2 different obs footage playing side by side chugs it. I can only really see the gpu going to 100% and it only using one part of it. It’s very annoying issue if you like comparing things with video footage
@@DingleBerryschnapps I like staying in the loop to know if it’s worth it ya know! My pc runs fine but since editing with adobe software sometimes you can never know what upgrade may fix it or u spend $600 and it not fix the issue 😭
@@TheLastDistress Premiere Pro sucks and it likes to crash, so your PC is most likely fine.
Nice touch MSI for the Drivers on USB.
Worth getting the X70e Taichi Lite or the B650 Taichi Lite... For upcoming 9800X3D and the RTX 5080/90
@3:41 A value-add of extra IO is a sound proposition. But, when I shop for motherboards and go up to the X670E I see no more or even fewer PCIe slots, m.2 slots, and/or SATA ports on the motherboards. So I guess I am just getting more USB connectivity. Is that correct?
For some people, USB 4 and WiFi 7 for a moderate premium may actually be not a bad deal.
My board has 4.0 already and I don’t own a WiFi modem with 7.0 support.
Looking for budget options in a brand new product lineup at launch? You are going to need more than a pair of glasses to find such a rare bird in the fields of online shopping. Maybe something like this could be found in a Microcenter Bundle that you have to buy in store if you are extremely lucky.
Really these boards seem to be requiring forward-looking options like pcie gen 5, looking at the next gen GFX cards there obviously. Nobody wants to release a board that is not going to be able to handle a new card within a few months of launch. Much better speeds on connections, moving from 6 to 7 on wi-fi, dropping gen 2 USB in some cases, more nice to have buttons, LED readouts are all general improvements. Let the initial price frenzy subside and buy on sale, as everyone really should be doing imo.
For me the out of the box RAM compatibility is a sweet addition considering the platforms problems in this regard previously. Most buyers really want those working out of the box and to not have a need to fiddle with timings or updates to the Bios to get running I feel.
And really if you are in the B series market to start with, stay there and leave the X series alone. Everyone should know which side of the board (heh heh...) they are on with the extras by now.
@@Valthalin are these motherboards without rear USB 2.0 support still providing internal headers for it? Cases often have front panel USB 2.0, and there are some devices that don't play nice with USB3 due to shielding of the power delivery (some Elgato devices, GPS receivers etc)
It sucks that even more new motherboards are dropping the 5.1 analog for just 2.0 + Mic. I guess they just assume everyone uses headphones?
You mention in passing that 'recent' boards have WiFi 7 support - this is actually the other differentiator for X870(E) that you didn't mention. It's been a real hassle finding WiFi 7 cards that are reliably compatible with earlier X670(E) boards, which all have WiFi 6E; having this built in saves the hassle down the line.
Gigabyte was really hoping that everyone will Snatch up their AI motherboard. How the hell does the naming "Snatch" make it without somebody laughing and saying that might not be a good idea!
Because it has a definition outside of Urban Dictionary.
@@Bob_Smith19 hardly, slang exists and has for some time.
you'd have to sell your snatch to afford one...
No way I'm touching Gigabyte's AI Snatch. I have seen USB condoms though that disable the data pins and only allow power through...
"Don't go to England!" ruclips.net/video/yAgI51QvWxs/видео.html
Hardly and upgrade at this point. I looked at them but the cost to performance wasn't with the upgrade.
Got the B650 Aorus Elite AX motherboard for my build last year and it has been plenty good enough. I originally wanted a MB that had the USB 4, but they were all much more expensive at the time and didn't want to spend that much more for a port that, when I really thought hard about it, wasn't going to use anytime soon, if ever. I actually considered that ASRock board in addition to a couple others of theirs, but I liked the features on the Gigabyte a bit more. Planning to carry this MB all the way through to the end of AM5. I'm not missing wifi 7 or USB 4.
Thankx Paul! Perfect timing. I have never had an issue with my MSI Unify boards so it's X670 now for me..
This and last gen motherboard have been too damn expensive
I remember my first super expensive MB and it was the Crosshair VII Hero and I thought $220 was a lot for a MB. Lol
I could understand last gens since it was a new chipset and also using DDR5 Ram, but this gen doesn't have the same excuse, it should realistically be cheaper than last gens launch price.
Really appreciate your thoughts, a lot of channels are going hard with the hype without considering the value proposition at all.
It would be a mistake to assume that there's no difference between any given X670E board and its re-released X870E counterpart, even if the former did already have USB4 chips. Take the case of the Asus X670E/X870E Proart boards. Superficially they look practically identical, but significant alterations have been made to PCI-E lane distribution, and either one of the boards could be superior depending on the user's requirements. The X670E board has the USB4 controllers routed to the chipset, while the X870E revision has those controllers connected to CPU lanes instead. This has positive consequences for USB4 performance and congestion on the chipset, but potential negative consequences for M.2 expandability (populating the second M.2 5.0 slot will reduce the primary PCI-E slot to 8x). It's likely that similar differences exist in other boards now that it's mandatory to have USB4 controllers on CPU lanes for X870E.
10 years ago a Mobo that cost 200 USD had debug display, on and reset button on them. Now you need to pay almost 500 for these "features".
Got a B650 msi tomahawk for my future 9800X3D upgrade.
I think im good.
Dont need 1000 usb ports in the back.
My complaint is similar. going up in series from 670 to 870 there is no increase in the quantity of PCIE lanes directly accessing the cpu, both versions give the customer just 24 channels to allocate for their own choices.
What ram and ram speed for x870e is the best?
I was waiting for the 9000 12-Core and X870E, I was underwhelmed and totally put off by the high prices in Canada. $700 just for the CPU. So I bought a new Intel 12700K 12-Core instead for $200 and built a system around that. It is to replace my old i7-6950X X99 64GB RTX-2060 system. 12700K is 200% the performance of the 6950X, plus I went with 192GB DDR5.
There's some big caveats with the extra gen 5 m.2 slots below the top x16 g5 slot, that seems to be present on all the Aorus boards (and probably other 870 boards). It shares bandwidth with the m.2 slots, and will downgrade to a pcie x8 connection if they are used. And that's for the *primary* GPU slot.
This isn't nearly as much of an issue on a lot of x670(e) boards since most opt for g4 x4 slots for the m.2 drives. Definitely pay attention to the tech specs when it comes to the "sharing" of slot bandwidth and if that will be an issue for you for your planned configuration.
This was an excellent overview and dive into the AM5 chipsets available. Super useful and accessible information & advice, and timely to boot (heh). Thank you Paul!
I thought I heard or read that x870 had more PCIE-5 lanes. Same total number of PCIE lanes but like 4 or 8 that were previously PCIe4 are now PCIe5 so that M.2 storage didn't have to share PCIe5 lanes with the graphics slot. Did I get that wrong?
I am between MSI's
1. x870 Tomahawk wifi
2. x870 Pro Wifi
3. x670e Tomahawk wifi
I am an advanced mixed use user, willing to get a 12 core cpu in the final zen5 series to extend its mobo life.
Snatch seems appropriate for gigglebyte, the guy that got that name through must be proud.
Even though I have never had a problem with any Asus motherboards, I regret getting the Asus Tuf B650-Plus Wifi over the ASrock B650 PG Lightning.
AMD shot themselves in the foot yet again. How do they not learn? Universities probably use them as examples of how not to properly launch a product.
If x870 is so close in design, why couldn't they have aligned this with the 9000 launch (either advancing the boards, or delaying the CPU's)
New sub here. I've been building my own Pc since the days of the 486 but thru out the years tech has really jump to the point that I can't keep up so I appreciate your channel in helping us old guys keep in touch with whats going on.
Since my am4 is due for an upgrade should I look at these "Ai capable" Am5 mobo preferably at the entry level, my ol lady would freak if I spent more than 300 on just a motherboard! Im not into gaming more into video/audio editing instead. Thanks.
For me Wifi 7 is a huge reason to go with the new boards. Will upgrade my Home Setup next year to wifi 7 and don't want to add a seperate Wifi card. Very informative Video! Thanks
What is the difference as I assume there is one between an X series Motherboard vs a B series Motherboard. As in an X870 vs a B650 etc? What does the letter denotes?
I'm building an all-white rig currently, because I like being stressed out while hunting for parts. But I picked up the Gigabyte X870 AORUS Elite WiFi7 Ice MoBo for $279 with a $15 rebate. At Micro Ctr.
Thank you Paul! Either I am not looking hard enough or there are not enough dives into motherboards and their features, plus what features are actually useful. Why would you choose an X series board over a B series? Does the E extension provide more value? What features are better suited for gaming focused PCs vs production focused, or a hybrid of the two?
I love these videos. Although, I always forget how much slower the M.2 slots go when you have a video card in the PCIE slot on top.
where are all the dual ethernet boards? where 5.1 optical audio? where many usbc connectors? i thought im in the future
Question: What is max no. displays (4K @ 60Hz) which can be connected to these X870/X870E boards, to be driven from iGPU on 9900X?
I understand all these boards have 1x HDMI and 2x USB 4 (supporting DP over USB). In principle, each USB 4 port could output to two 4K displays @ 60Hz (using an MST USB-C to dual DP adaptor). So I wonder whether it might be possible to drive FOUR, or even FIVE 4K @ 60Hz displays from the iGPU via X870/X870E Mobo?
(of course, another limitation is max no 4K @ 60Hz displays supported by 9900X iGPU itself, I heard this might be a max of FOUR, but unconfirmed?)
I am planning new build using Ryzen 9900X and an X870/X870E Mobo. Will not be used for gaming, for productivity only. I won’t install a discrete graphics card, will rely only on integrated graphics.
I wonder if the answer is the SAME for all these X870/X870E Mobos, or would some of them allow to connect more 4K displays than others?
This is the video I needed to see! I've been stressing on which 870E to get but I think I'm gonna go with the Asrock 670E Nova?
I just installed MSI X870E Carbon 10-2-24. I installed Realtek sound drivers BUT where is the equalizer software? Not on USB or MSI website.
Asrock PG lightning or Aorus Elite AX v2 for 20€ more? I've got a 7800x3d.
Thanks my tech gurus!
I am a little confused - you talked about "additional connectivity" for the 1st half of the video, but none of those boards had as many PCIe slots as my X570.
The ASRock X870 Pro RS at $190 looks like a good deal for a possible 9600X + RX 8600 build when RDNA 4 releases.
I just want debug LEDs on an affordable low to mid range board.
Really is no reason to not have an 8 segment display on every motherboard. They cost nothing.
I saw the LED debug things on amazon for pretty cheap and yet manufacturers only put them on high end stuff
Sorry buddy it's too late,the corporations realized they could take away features and sell them back to you at a premium.
The shareholders need a new yacht you know,won't you think of the shareholders?
Hey Paul. Would you mind a question?
My best options right now for a 9800x3d setup is the MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk Wifi and the MSI PRO X870-P. The latter is 30€ cheaper.
What would be your pick? Thanks!
One of the primary reasons I went with my X870 board is longer term support. Any thoughts on this?
12:37 why are some USB 3.2 slots blue and others are red?
The Red ports can do 10 Gbps, blue ones 5 Gbps. If you need to connect a 10 Gbps device such as a M.2 NVME to USB Adapter you want the red ones.
@@K05H thanks
Not one of these boards has Wifi antenna connectors at the top of the io shield. Is it too much to ask for that price?
I don't get it. adding a break in the naming (skipping 700) would indicate something major, not... a minor, MINOR revision that adds features nobody even has a use for yet (like USB4). And for 1/3 more money!
This would be for a Gaming Pc for a Motherboard i'm stuck on what to choose either the ASUS ROG STRIX X870-F GAMING WIFI Or GIGABYTE X870E AORUS ELITE WIFI7?
Thanks for the realistic realworld explanation of the new chipsets vs the existing.
What's the purpose of the 350-500$ boards?
The one feature I really want is 2xPCIE5 nvme slots.
As usual another great video!
I decided to upgrade from AM4 to AM5 last week. I already purchased a 7900x (not x3d, because I'm not a gamer) for $340 and I ordered my B650 mobo an hour ago. I'll be buying RAM this weekend. I bought the cpu used on ebay and the mobo (MSI B650M Mortar WiFi) used-ish on Amazon (listed as used excellent like new condition).
I got the B650 Mortar WiFi + 7900 XTX + 7800X3D + 32GB DDR5 RAM during Black Friday 2023 - very happy with this setup for 1440p gaming so far. My only regret is the NZXT H5 Flow case (too noisy and cheap tooling).
Am I the only one who would trade the m.2 slots in favor of more general purpose pcie slots? There is more to expansion than graphics and storage.
If big ass gpus weren’t a thing.
Im building a new pc and i got a ryzen 9 9950x and I'm between the MSI x670 gaming plus and the MSI x870 carbon. Would the upgrade be worth it at around 200 extra buck ?
Something I noticed with the 800 series is that you seem to Lose NVMe performance as a trade-off for USB4.
Having so many motherboard classifications really is extremely confusing, then add the countless models from each brand. How long until PCIE 5.0 GPU capability will be worthwhile?
11:20 The HDMI port that's off to the side is for the sensor panel.
will these new boards help with the slow boot times with AM5. I currently have the MSI x670 Carbon and the boot times are insane. Sometimes im not sure if the PC is stuck.
So, what would be a good choice for a white motherboard, to assemble a 7800X3D or even 9800X3D? I am not a pro user, don't need 1000 usb ports or NVME connections, but would be nice to buy something decent that would last me a few generations. Should I buy last gen X670E or B650E?
Question Mr. Paul, do you know if the Wifi 7 antennae is unique? I'm looking at getting a X670/B650 and just swapping out the wifi card for a 7 at some point, but don't know jack about the antennas from 6E to 7 wifi standard, only that the standards themselves are different.
WiFi 6 uses the same frequency bands as WiFi 7, so it should work (am also a novice at antennas though, am interested to hear other people's views)
First you need a WiFi7 router, then you can think of the antennas if you really want to....
@@Quast I'm in the market for a new mobo, therefor I'm worrying about that right now, because I plan to get a wifi 7 router. Useless ass comment.
@@myselfalex You will see, when you don't direct the antennas not towards the wall behind the metal box that the PC is, your reception will increase more than with some extra long antennas. The gain is minimal....
my question is the MB x870 as future proof as the asrock you said?
The Gigabyte X870E AORUS Pro Ice is sooooooooo pretty though! 😂 FYI The "internal" HDMI port on the Gigabyte boards is supposed to be for supporting a stat display.
I just bought it but now I’m wondering if I’m screwed trying to throw two nvme drives into it lol
@@SevenBlades, X870E should be fine. I currently run 2 gen 4 NVMe drives (Samsung 990 Pro) in a B650 board (no E) without any loss of read/write performance.
What about DDR5 128+ GB with AMD Ryzen 9 9900X CPU? Is it possible on these MBs and which RAM modules can be recommended for use?
Will a b650 board be compatible with 9000 series cpus out of the box w/o a bios update? If not, how does one do a bios update without a 7000 series cpu?
I believe i read some manufacters have already installed the most recent update of bios right after someone purchase the motherboard
So the user have no need to update it manually by putting everything and installing it just like very new system which just plugged in
@@RoyZennet but you have no idea how long that motherboard has been sitting on a shelf.
wonder if the x870es will be able to run 4 sticks of ddr5 properly lol i have the msi x670e meg ace right now and even that cant boot with 4 sticks. i no u can mess around with setting to get it working but even then iv heard 2 sticks is better
I am so confused. I want to build a new pc for the first time. Do I wait for the next Amd cpus and or motherboards, or intel arrow lake or just build now.
unless someone really need USB 4.0 / Thunderbolt for "External GPU docking" (for a dekstop PC 🗿), there's no reason to upgrade from X680E / X680 to X870E / X870
What’s that bottom connected on the Msi board? Looks like a 3rd cpu 8 pin?..
Been a couple years since I last asked... but could you do a video on USB devices? Motherboards have so many USB ports now, but the only thing I ever really use them for is mouse, kb, flash drives or external storage. There are always left over ports that never get used. What can I do with them?
Don't know much about motherboards, but long time snatch fan. Hope that helps!
Awesomesauce video Paul and Joe! Paul looks for the kind of board that I look for. The lowest/cheaper version with the newest technologies. 😊
Caffeinator out.
For me the video was to long to watch completely. But a notion for the MSI Tomahawk X870. The second PCIe 5.0 M2 slot is only 2x connect because of the USB4. But you can deactivate the USB4 in the bios so you have PCIe 5.0 4x for that M2 slot as well connected to the CPU.
would you recommend the msi x870 tomahawk with the new 9800x3d? only use it for gaming with a 4080 motherboard is the only thing that confuses me lol
Good you mentioned the nerf on X870 as I can see a lot of people getting caught out by that.
100000000000000000%, I know that I *always* blindly assume that a product will meet some arbitrary spec without spending 15 seconds looking up what it supports.
I'm so happy Paul is looking out for people like me who are incapable of learning, reading, etc..
i think someone at gigabyte got addicted to some AI snatch somewhere and it whispered that branding idea into his ear at gunpoint
What even is the difference between the ports that are connected to the cpu and the ports that are connected to the chipset?
Since i trust your opinion, is there any itx or micro atx motherboards you'd recommend for creators? Ill be using 7950x until the 9950x3D comes out, i do mainly creator stuff, with gaming on the side.
You failed to mention on several of the 870 motherboards, that if u use more than 1 gen 5 nvme, it drops the x16 slot to a x8. Might want to mention that to people before they buy.
Paul, which mobo would you recommend to pair with the 9800X3D?
11:20 a handy internal hdmi port for those cases with displays
Can you use the DP Out on usb 4 if you have a GPU? Or you have to route a DP Cable from it to the MBoard?
I could see the use if you have a economic build with Integrated graphics and a basic MoBo, but seems like a waste of DP out in a expensive setup
From what I remember this is an option since the AMD 7000 CPUs. I've looked it up, I think last year, but since I have an older CPU and AM4 platform there is no way for me to test it. It's a very little discussed feature.
If you have a gpu why would you need integrated graphics?