Mobo's, GPU's, CPU's, PSU's, Cases...it's ALL becoming the same marketing drivel of "Bigger number with most XXXs = higher price"; and then they have to lie and/or obfuscate performance numbers to justify that price. Not to mention the extra headaches with buggy BIOS and H/W compatibility that seems to get more and more common
This needs to be part of a "demystifying x platform" playlist. It becomes difficult to understand what's what when you come back years later down the line to rebuild your pc... and this helps clarify a lot for return builders.
I saw someone reviewed all 870 and 870e mobos and i think only asrock mobos support pcie 5.0 1x16 without lane sharing meaning even if all m.2 slots are occupied and if they got m.2 pcie 5.0, the slot will not step down. the rest of brands will split to 2x8 so gotta take note of this when buying one
That's why I got the Asrock x670e pro rs. It doesn't share the lanes and has a lot of m.2 and ssd connections. I just simply love it. Yes it doesn't have rgb or fancy things on it, but it's a very good quality motherboard that gets the job done with no BS or errors.
I think I learned more about system architecture this refresh than in the past. Haven't been looking at hardware since I built my 3770k, so it's been a minute for sure.
@@Pi3XXAX i did buy the ASUS ROG Crosshair X670E Hero 4x full usable m2 no cutting down and i have 6 SATA that i can use and a 1x PCIE for stuff like sound cards
I got the b650 edge wifi from MSI, since the main m.2 slot is 5.0 and it has 2 more 4.0 m.2s AND it has 6 SATA ports and no splitting of x16 slot. Was the best package for me. Too many manufacturers leaving lanes out/disappropriating or using them for useless stuff. With zen4 and 5 boards you really need to read the specs carefully before purchasing.
It'll be a bit before I need a new MB/CPU, but I watch every single one of these because it increases my overall knowledge and ability to make an informed decision when the time _does_ come. Thanks.
The X870 and B840 "naming class" bumps are so scummy. All this deceptive marketing is *really* lowering my opinion of AMD. Maybe I should start reconsidering Intel products.
Companies are nicest to the customer when they're fighting each other for business. With Intel burning down its own brand with CPU failures, AMD's getting cocky. I'm not optimistic for the pricing of the upcoming 9800x3d.
For gaming, only buy a board if it’s got a 50 or higher. If it has 50 don’t buy the cheapest board, make sure it has a big heat sink. An extra 30usd gets you a much better board 50 board. If it’s higher than 50 they are all good. 600 or 800 bugger all differences just never buy the 840 or 620 Forget about PCIE 5.0 doesn’t matter.
@@drago939393yep for gaming PCIe5 is not needed. 4 is no where near saturating even the best GPU. It’ll be fine for a long time yet. I think HUB did video and even PCIe 3 still has enough bandwidth for current best GPU as long as it’s a 16 lane card and slot. If you are doing something that requires a lot of read/write with the best NVMe storage it might make a difference but if you just want gaming rig 4.0 will make no difference at all to your experience. Sure 5 is new spec but I personally would not spend money just for that. If it’s on Mobo you want get it, but if it’s not use the budget on better GPU or more storage etc
@@drago939393 definitely. For gaming anyway. Might make a small difference if you have a high read write requirement but the vast majority of people don’t. You’d probably know if you did. The top end GPUs are only now starting to max out PCIe3.0!! You’ll be fine with 4.0 only makes a difference for top NVMe storage read/write. For gaming will make zero difference until well past your system been obsolete. If Mobo has it that’s great but do t spend more money to get specifically that would be better used for more storage or better GPU
TooLongDidn'tWatch Its just mid cycle refresh of the motherboard. Added features/speeds but unless you need some certain feature, then you would have searched for it already. X870E is just refresh of X670E X870 refresh of B650 B850 refresh of B650
So, the biggest difference is the '8' for the '6'. And that USB 4.0 is mandatory for premium boards. Those were premium boards before, too, so it already was a hard sell to offer boards withouat USB 4.0
No one has ever, nor will ever need USB4 on desktop and the implementation on X870(E) is absolute shite on top of that. And even for those who wanted USB4 for some unfathomable reason, there were better implementations of it on X670E already, as well as the ability to just add it with a Thunderbolt card.
I kept my last build pretty simple. 7700x (budget reasons), B650 (although I wasn't really happy with the MSI PRO B650M-A WIFI board I got at 1st, recommended here, but updates have brought it around and its good now) and was able to score a Radeon RX 7900 GRE at msrp. I haven't had any issues, temps are good, and it does all the things I need it to do very well. probably the only upgrade I would like is the 7800x3d but things are good, and I can wait until it's cheaper.
The thing I find weird is that only A620 & B650 ITX motherboards seems to have standard 3x Audio Jacks rear I/O to connect 5.1 speakers. All of the higher tier ones lack those. I think the only "higher tier" one that actually has 3x at the rear in Asus B650E, but it is disqualified since it uses 2x rear ones and 1x front panel audio to connect 5.1 audio... which is an insanely weird design choice...
All I can say is that hardware as a whole is quite a mess imo. No chance I’ll buy now. Waiting for things to stabilise marketing and product wise but I fear it’s just going to get worse. Which will force me to look at budget options to not burn much money on little bang for buck. Either way. I see it as exercises in futility. Hope it improves
The market is mature and most of the effort is going into segmentation rather than improvement. Oh sure, they'll call both 'innovation' but it's surprisingly hard to get a quality board without LED vomit, without the wifi controller I don't want or need, and yet with the PciE5 lanes well allocated....
"Won't buy now" ... but you fear it will get worse.. which means you either want to buy in a more convoluted market or never upgrade. Or you're holding out hope that companies will segment the market less? In any case, the logic is a bit dodgy.
@@Scxegood question. Lemme exemplify… I don’t need to buy but want to buy. I’m ok not buying for a while. So I’m ok waiting. Yes. I’d like a decent Ryzen 9000 series but the bang for buck isn’t there. And. What’s the purpose of the 8000 range again? Is the 7000 what I should be looking at? What about the direction PCI lanes vs lanes offered via the chipset. This is all quite messy. What RAM speed is a good rule of thumb… does it depend on everything that there is no rule of thumb? Do I skip this and just buy a HP laptop and hope it’ll serve my needs for years or will it be need to be replaced within 18 months? This is what I kind of mean
it's hell. I'm looking at building a PC with a 9950x and good motherboards are freakishly expensive compared to when I last built a PC. and GPUs are just stupid...
These videos are very informative and I'm glad you make them. Been trying to get an asrock nova but it's never in stock, so I might as well find an x670e motherboard
Tech companies and changing naming schemes constantly and almost only for the worse. Name a more iconic duo. Have we had any releases to current gen parts from the RGB companies that haven't done this (excluding Arc because it is first gen, nothing to ruin)?
Absolutely incredible video. Thank you for the information, I've saved all the graphs here for personal reference. Shoutout to whoever made the graphs lol.
B650E was ahead of its time. AMD has upgraded it to X870 so prices will increase. Once B650E stock dries out, we will be left with upsold renamed 600 series boards.
Honestly, the dual chipset thing with x670 and x870E is just stupid. You just gain more "connectors" but not more bandwidth. And most of the boards, even the expensive ones aren't even close to using most of a single chipset...
Chipsets are more or less just glorified PCIe switches. It's not expected to fully saturate the uplink with a single device all the time. Similar to how in networking you hook up every device to 1 GbE on a 48 port switch despite only having a 1 GbE uplink.
I bought an MSI X670E GAMING PLUS WIFI on black week, almost 30% reduced in price. This is because im upgrading from 3700x to 9800x3d and after some research I felt that it filled my needs well and guaranteed a PCIe 5.0 slot for future upgrades. What I didnt know is that seems to be identical to the X870E, which would cost more than DOUBLE of what I just bought the X670E for (which was already pretty expensive). Literally insane. I was pretty confident with my purchase but this instead made me feel I made an amazingly good purchase.
I mean they could introduce much more lanes in their chipset, but to what avail? Most users won't use them. And then you only have a PCIe4x4 between CPU and chipset.
When you need more Pcie Lanes buy an Threadripper and TRX50 Plattform. The Amount of Lanes are fine for the most people on Mainstream Plattforms. And you dont find a higher or better Lane Amount on the Competition Motherboards included 1851 MBs next Time.
@@johnscaramis2515 on the top chipset the argument is not that users will not use them, the argument is users don't have them to use. Threadripper is dead, we need consumer level boards with lots of IO.
@@TheTaurus104 threadripper is a dead platform, we need more pcie lanes for high speed io, 300G network cards are right around the corner and in order to use a lot of those cards you need accelerator cards to obtain the actual speeds.
Motherboards have become way too convoluted at this point. Not only with the different chipsets for each generation, even each motherboard vendor has upwards of 10 different SKUs for each chipset (looking at you, Asus). Just a mess.
Thanks for explaining. I was torn between X870, X870E and X670E for my 9800X3D. I ended up with the X670E as that board was 359€ vs. the 511€ X870E Board. And I don't pay 152€ for a USB 4 Upgrade and some Comfort Features that I don't need. Thanks!
I watched the other mobo video by steve and eventually settled on a B650E PG Riptide Wifi. Trying to go over the specs feels like sorting fantasy magic ingredients.
I basically knew all those things but the sheer amount of data in this video still made my head spin. I'd never be able to remember that if I hadn't already known.
As an ITX user, is there any functional difference between the ASUS ROG STRIX X670e-i and the X870i? Both have the same number of rear USB 3.x ports, 2 USB 4 ports, 2.5Gb Lan, use the FPS-II card, stacked M.2 drives (1 PCIe 5.0, 1 PCIe 4.0), and a variation of the Strix Hive device, but obviously use different chipsets. There seems to be quite a bit of conjecture about whether or not ITX can even take advantage of the additional PCIe lanes offered by X670e, or whether the reduced number of promontory chipsets onboard could actually help control VRM/board temps better.
24 usable CPU lanes for X870(E) is a partial lie because four of those lanes are reserved for USB4. Partial because you can technically use those four lanes but only externally.
They are not even reserved for USB4, its just a loot easier to take them from the CPU then from the Chipset since the USB4 controller is located right next to the CPU, and it would be a pain in the ass to wire it up to the Chipset instead.
I miss having a bunch of PCIe expansion slots during the old days... Even an AGP port with 6 PCI slots (non-Express slots, mind you). I for one am going with 25GBit networking (QSFP) that connects from my gaming/workstation desktop to my server for fast transfer rates.
Yea, AsRock f up the naming there; they definitely wanted to replace the original, awful steel legend b650e, that also has pcie 5.0 x16 slot, with this one
@@seylaw because Asrock was feeling generous with the gamers and wanted to make them happy? But I am sure it's going to split and share the lanes if you occupie all the ssd, m.2 and pcie slots, and that will drop the speed. Asrock X670E Pro Rs is still the goat 🐐 🙌
Because the speed of the CPU lanes has absolutely nothing to do with the chipset, that's what Tim completely fails to mention. The speeds listed in the video are only the "minimum" required speeds, but manufacturers can totally design boards with faster PCIe or M.2 connections.
@@HAM_An1mA imo ASRock is goated, other brands are just that… brands Other brands are Starbucks while ASRock is the local coffeeshop with that super cute girl who makes the best coffee in the world
Thank goodness AM4 was so good, I have no need to do any upgrades anytime soon after going to an 5700X3D. Probably ride it out until AM6 hits so can wait until all this blows over.
Pretty sure we'll see the 600 series, and maybe excluding the A620, to be slowly phased out in favor of the refreshes. Look, it's already obvious that DIY desktop side isn't that much profitable for them currently so they'll try to squeeze out as much as possible before enterprise/data center side upward trend dies down.
Anyway, AMD/Intel... please make your next platforms to have more PCIe lanes. Ryzen | intel 9s are already workstation capable chips except for quad-channel and more pcie lanes for more pcie storage.
Tim was like "I am bringing too much clarity for free here, let's add some confusion to balance things out again". Meanwhile B-roll was adjusted on Patreon (jk).
This helped quite a bit. Thank you! B650E is my go to. If I can stretch the budget a bit, then maybe I will get a motherboard with an X870 chipset, but it doesn't really offer anything over B650E that would justify any price increase.
@@Gaius__ Luckily it was on sale and the other boards didn't have the USB I was after. I really don't care for the blinking lights either. Can you guess how much I got it for?
Proposal: 1. CPU can multiplex bandwidth for lanes (committed rate) or motherboard includes non-blocking PCIE switch: so lower PCIE generation = more lanes. 2. All slots are physical x16 (or higher) and wired into the CPU. 3. Active lane allocation (between slots & bifurcation) and PCIE generation usage is controlled in the BIOS 4. Chipsets are installed in PCIE slots
Do NOT buy X870(E) boards they are a straight DOWNGRADE from X670E/B650E boards. All they have done is remove choice and forced manufacturers to spend 4 CPU PCIe lanes on a crappy USB4 controller, thereby REMOVING your second PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot. There is no reason whatsoever to buy an X870(E) board because there are no features on it that couldn't be implemented on an X670E/B650E board; if you do, you are actively wasting your money and buying subpar capability.
I skipped over the B650 because of the lack of PCI 5.0 x16 slots. The B650E seemed like the better buy for the long haul as it had PCI 5.0 support across the board. Very useful video!!
Thanks for the video. Definitely reinforces keeping my X670E motherboard and not upgrading to the new boards. Just to have USB 4.0, I can buy an add on board for that. Great review
I waited 18 months, but i finally managed to buy an 670e motherboard for a good price (after being overpriced all that time). It peakesd at a ludicrous 364 last year, i grabbed it a month ago for 196. Now the wait for Black Friday for CPU sales on the 7000 series.
The government honestly needs to come in and regulate model naming for computer parts. You have to spend hours Googling to figure out what's meeting your desired specs.
I was planning to buy a new motherboard, this table really helped me. I think x870 is the most sensible offering this line up has. Not sure why anyone would even want a x870E mbd
Video starts @ 14:50. Everything is just specification reporting. Good information to have documented somewhere, but probably would have been better off as an educational piece to bookmark and reference via other videos. Edit: Also as a rebuttal to the point of B850 V B840 - If a typical consumer cares about I/O they are likely searching for a mobo by filtering based on the I/O configuration, and not necessarily what name is on the Chipset. I recommend that approach to users because it removes all the marketing from the mess. "Do you need USB4? Do you have many USB devices that run @ 10Gbps or faster? How many M.2 disks would you want to use?" This navigates the spiderweb of Chipsets, and nested-SKUs within each of them.
My Asus TUF Gaming B650 has a PCIe 5.0 Primary M.2 slot as do others as well. I think you should fix that on your chart as Optional PCIe 5.0. My B650 is essentially a B850.
Thank you so much for this!!! I am right now looking to upgrade from a b450 + 5600x to something with more connectivity speed and memory for some vm work and games. The direct comparison is what I need to make sense of the madding options available.
First AMD Build on my 9800X3D, so confusing with all these different boards but this was helpful, still tough to decide w pricing, might wait til the ASROCK X870 Nova is back in stock..
Most people slap 2 dims in the MB, 1 stick of NVME, 1 graphics card and they are good to go (yes fans, cooler, etc). Most do not need more than this basic setup so having anything better than a basic B840 really is not required. Yes go for the B650/ B850 for extra NVME and marginally better sound but in reality as a percentage of users very few use 3 NVME and need more than 1 to be PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 and / or require PCIe 5.0, fewer then overclock the cpu (expo available on the B840). Generally we buy better because we can not because we need to.
I understand that some X870E motherboards use 4 of the CPU PCI gen5 lanes for the (ASMedia?) USB4 controller. This means that they loose the 2nd gen5 M.2 slot compared to their X670E predecessor. I’d rather have 2 gen5 M.2 FWIW.
From what I saw, every single X870(E) board takes four lanes directly from the CPU. Not sure if they could in theory use chipset lanes for USB4 or if it has to be CPU lanes because it needs the IGP for display out.
Happy with Gigabyte X670E Aorus master that Steve also uses for testing :) Can recommend (quite a bit cheaper now but it seems it's going to be end of life (fewer shops have it in stock)).
Thanks for the much needed clarification. I am still in limbo if B650 or X870 is the right choice for a new config when B650 is more expensive than the X870.
The biggest thing to watch out for is many of the x870(e) boards have issues with splitting the 16x gpu slot to 8x with the additional of USB4. Given X series board owners are typically looking for more complex builds this is a huge issue. There are some terrible bifurcation choices out there.
It’s crazy how high bandwidth is now in desktop platforms. All anyone needs is usb 3 for like 99% of the peripherals that will be connected. Even a high bandwidth storage array would need one usb 4 port.
My basic rule of thumb is that for any generation my go-to boards are basically either Gigabyte Master, ASRock Taichi, or MSI Ace. With a preference for Gigabyte Master, followed by ASRock Taichi. I tend to avoid Asus, as they tend to be overpriced and have occasional issues. Even though they're considered high end. Not that I would never get them...just Gigabyte (and AsRock) generally has better value, are rock solid, usually offer a better layout for my purposes, and I like their BIOS.
It more accurately reflects their position against intel now, people used to compare b650 against b760, which was dumb because B650 allowed cpu and memory overclocking while B760 didn't, Atleast now their B series are closer. Also what A620 boards support pcie4 nvme from the chipset? that appears to be an old typo, Theres pcie4 to the chipset but seems only 3.0 from the chipset on every board I've looked at. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_chipsets#AM5_chipsets Going from 8x3.0 lanes to 10x3.0 lanes means they're 2 over intels h610 equivalent. amd X670E/X870E: 1x pcie5 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie5 gpu +extras amd B650/B850: 1x pcie5 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 (5 optional) gpu intel Z690/Z790: 1x pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie5 gpu* amd B840/A620: *2x* pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 gpu intel B760: 1x pcie4 cpu-m.,2, 1x pcie5 gpu* *(pcie5 NVME steals from the GPU)
@@gctypo2838 Like Z(690) is higher than B(660) is higher than H(610)? How generations count up 12th...13th....14th....200? Or like rebranding 13th gen as 14th gen? Or 14400 is a 12th gen architecture? I could go on but it's obvious you're new if you're still learning nothing in silicon valley is named consistently.
Motherboards are endlessly confusing, hugely valuable to have HWU here to cut through the marketing obfuscation and provide clarifying information.
Bigly
They forgot to mention that X870(E) boards are just downgraded X670E/B650E boards.
Mobo's, GPU's, CPU's, PSU's, Cases...it's ALL becoming the same marketing drivel of "Bigger number with most XXXs = higher price"; and then they have to lie and/or obfuscate performance numbers to justify that price. Not to mention the extra headaches with buggy BIOS and H/W compatibility that seems to get more and more common
Monitor names: Hold my stand
@@MajinOthinusdowngraded in what way? I was considering buying an x870e board so I’m quite curious
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, confuse them with bullshit. - Sun Tzu, Art of War.
lol
@@blakecasimir Dude, let's keep the politics out of a computer motherboard chipset discussion. OK?
@@blakecasimirNot everyrhing needs to be political.
Lol :)))
True af.. 😂
X870E = X670E
X870 = B650E
B850 = B650
B840 = A620??
Yep
Where's 700 series? B750?
@@hiriotapa1983they skipped 700 to match intel 800
@@hiriotapa1983 Same as "Ryzen AI 100 and 200", AMD skipped to "be ahead" of intel (yeah, that's dumb)
What the fuck is B650E??? Why does this even exist???
The x870 naming scheme is pure scumbaggery. That should be the B850, not pretend to be so close to the top end.
it should b3 b750
@@RN1441 b850e*
Or really X670F and B650F, or along those lines.
That implies someone is trying to cheat you. AMD doesn't care which one you purchase, so no, its not scumbaggery.
Booboo 69 XTC is a more appropriate name, not B850.
This needs to be part of a "demystifying x platform" playlist. It becomes difficult to understand what's what when you come back years later down the line to rebuild your pc... and this helps clarify a lot for return builders.
fr I had exactly this
What a confusing mess.
Got it X670E Taichi. Message received loud and clear.
Thank you for the effort in trying to make sense of this mess!
I saw someone reviewed all 870 and 870e mobos and i think only asrock mobos support pcie 5.0 1x16 without lane sharing meaning even if all m.2 slots are occupied and if they got m.2 pcie 5.0, the slot will not step down. the rest of brands will split to 2x8 so gotta take note of this when buying one
I like asrock boards anyways but didn’t know this
True, the only ones worth buying are Taichi and Nova
Who is buying that anyway 😅
That's why I got the Asrock x670e pro rs. It doesn't share the lanes and has a lot of m.2 and ssd connections. I just simply love it. Yes it doesn't have rgb or fancy things on it, but it's a very good quality motherboard that gets the job done with no BS or errors.
I probably read it wrong before, but can use a gpu and a sound card without losing pcie lanes on the 1st slot?
This is the best breakdown I've seen that actually goes through the pcie lanes, connectivity, etc. Great video!
To be fair though he was just reading charts/info you can read yourself ;)
@@lolly_bread still isn't broken down as clearly in a mobo manual as what he did.
Meanwhile my B450 Tomahawk Max is still going strong 💪
Same w/ B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC 💪
I use a320 with 5800x3d lol
my 50€ B450 MSI board running great with Ryzen 5600 OC'ed to 4.9GHz
Gigabyte B450 Gaming X + 5700X 👍
MSI B350 Tomahawk going for 6-7 years now, first generation Ryzen board that has been home to 1700, 56000x and 5800X3D
I think I learned more about system architecture this refresh than in the past. Haven't been looking at hardware since I built my 3770k, so it's been a minute for sure.
I did buy an X670E after seeing how bad the X870E was more usable SATA more usable m2 on the X670E no GPU cut down in lanes
Meanwhile there are Z890 boards with 6xM.2 slots that don't steal gpu lanes
May I which model did you buy? I was recently looking for a new PC, and found out the X870E sucks in lanes
@@nepnep6894 By attaching them to the chipset. Which would also be possible on AMD.
@@Pi3XXAX i did buy the ASUS ROG Crosshair X670E Hero 4x full usable m2 no cutting down and i have 6 SATA that i can use and a 1x PCIE for stuff like sound cards
I got the b650 edge wifi from MSI, since the main m.2 slot is 5.0 and it has 2 more 4.0 m.2s AND it has 6 SATA ports and no splitting of x16 slot. Was the best package for me. Too many manufacturers leaving lanes out/disappropriating or using them for useless stuff. With zen4 and 5 boards you really need to read the specs carefully before purchasing.
It'll be a bit before I need a new MB/CPU, but I watch every single one of these because it increases my overall knowledge and ability to make an informed decision when the time _does_ come. Thanks.
The X870 and B840 "naming class" bumps are so scummy. All this deceptive marketing is *really* lowering my opinion of AMD. Maybe I should start reconsidering Intel products.
Yeah, i don't understand why they're recurring to such scummy tactics when they have better products atm.
Companies are nicest to the customer when they're fighting each other for business. With Intel burning down its own brand with CPU failures, AMD's getting cocky. I'm not optimistic for the pricing of the upcoming 9800x3d.
If you had a drinking game where you drink every time Tim says X, you'd be blacked out.
I am confused more than I was confused before.
For gaming, only buy a board if it’s got a 50 or higher.
If it has 50 don’t buy the cheapest board, make sure it has a big heat sink. An extra 30usd gets you a much better board 50 board.
If it’s higher than 50 they are all good.
600 or 800 bugger all differences just never buy the 840 or 620
Forget about PCIE 5.0 doesn’t matter.
@@chrisbeauchamp5563 Are you sure PCIE 5.0 vs 4.0 doesn't matter..?
@@drago939393yep for gaming PCIe5 is not needed. 4 is no where near saturating even the best GPU. It’ll be fine for a long time yet.
I think HUB did video and even PCIe 3 still has enough bandwidth for current best GPU as long as it’s a 16 lane card and slot.
If you are doing something that requires a lot of read/write with the best NVMe storage it might make a difference but if you just want gaming rig 4.0 will make no difference at all to your experience.
Sure 5 is new spec but I personally would not spend money just for that. If it’s on Mobo you want get it, but if it’s not use the budget on better GPU or more storage etc
@@drago939393 definitely. For gaming anyway. Might make a small difference if you have a high read write requirement but the vast majority of people don’t. You’d probably know if you did.
The top end GPUs are only now starting to max out PCIe3.0!!
You’ll be fine with 4.0 only makes a difference for top NVMe storage read/write. For gaming will make zero difference until well past your system been obsolete.
If Mobo has it that’s great but do t spend more money to get specifically that would be better used for more storage or better GPU
TooLongDidn'tWatch
Its just mid cycle refresh of the motherboard.
Added features/speeds but unless you need some certain feature, then you would have searched for it already.
X870E is just refresh of X670E
X870 refresh of B650
B850 refresh of B650
Thanks for making this. I just bought a 7800x3d and have been looking at different motherboards to get. You made my decision a little easier.
Which one qre you getting
So, the biggest difference is the '8' for the '6'.
And that USB 4.0 is mandatory for premium boards. Those were premium boards before, too, so it already was a hard sell to offer boards withouat USB 4.0
No one has ever, nor will ever need USB4 on desktop and the implementation on X870(E) is absolute shite on top of that.
And even for those who wanted USB4 for some unfathomable reason, there were better implementations of it on X670E already, as well as the ability to just add it with a Thunderbolt card.
This video helped me to decide to go for an x670E board for the new 9000 x3D chip I'm gonna get.
Thanks Steve. Well done in the edit, its an eyecandy to look at!
I kept my last build pretty simple. 7700x (budget reasons), B650 (although I wasn't really happy with the MSI PRO B650M-A WIFI board I got at 1st, recommended here, but updates have brought it around and its good now) and was able to score a Radeon RX 7900 GRE at msrp. I haven't had any issues, temps are good, and it does all the things I need it to do very well. probably the only upgrade I would like is the 7800x3d but things are good, and I can wait until it's cheaper.
I am upgrading from the nzxt b650e in white to the gigabyte aorus ice x870e and giving my bro the b650e.
The thing I find weird is that only A620 & B650 ITX motherboards seems to have standard 3x Audio Jacks rear I/O to connect 5.1 speakers. All of the higher tier ones lack those. I think the only "higher tier" one that actually has 3x at the rear in Asus B650E, but it is disqualified since it uses 2x rear ones and 1x front panel audio to connect 5.1 audio... which is an insanely weird design choice...
All I can say is that hardware as a whole is quite a mess imo. No chance I’ll buy now. Waiting for things to stabilise marketing and product wise but I fear it’s just going to get worse. Which will force me to look at budget options to not burn much money on little bang for buck. Either way. I see it as exercises in futility. Hope it improves
The market is mature and most of the effort is going into segmentation rather than improvement. Oh sure, they'll call both 'innovation' but it's surprisingly hard to get a quality board without LED vomit, without the wifi controller I don't want or need, and yet with the PciE5 lanes well allocated....
@@RN1441 Some of us like them LED chunks... and you can disable them if it makes you woozy pal.
"Won't buy now" ... but you fear it will get worse.. which means you either want to buy in a more convoluted market or never upgrade. Or you're holding out hope that companies will segment the market less?
In any case, the logic is a bit dodgy.
@@Scxegood question. Lemme exemplify… I don’t need to buy but want to buy. I’m ok not buying for a while. So I’m ok waiting. Yes. I’d like a decent Ryzen 9000 series but the bang for buck isn’t there. And. What’s the purpose of the 8000 range again? Is the 7000 what I should be looking at? What about the direction PCI lanes vs lanes offered via the chipset. This is all quite messy. What RAM speed is a good rule of thumb… does it depend on everything that there is no rule of thumb? Do I skip this and just buy a HP laptop and hope it’ll serve my needs for years or will it be need to be replaced within 18 months?
This is what I kind of mean
it's hell. I'm looking at building a PC with a 9950x and good motherboards are freakishly expensive compared to when I last built a PC.
and GPUs are just stupid...
These videos are very informative and I'm glad you make them. Been trying to get an asrock nova but it's never in stock, so I might as well find an x670e motherboard
Be interesting to see what mobo you intend to test the 9800 x3d on
i was so overwhelmed by these new mobos and their futures, thank you for this video !
Tech companies and changing naming schemes constantly and almost only for the worse. Name a more iconic duo.
Have we had any releases to current gen parts from the RGB companies that haven't done this (excluding Arc because it is first gen, nothing to ruin)?
Absolutely incredible video. Thank you for the information, I've saved all the graphs here for personal reference. Shoutout to whoever made the graphs lol.
B650E was ahead of its time. AMD has upgraded it to X870 so prices will increase. Once B650E stock dries out, we will be left with upsold renamed 600 series boards.
This is a great video. Thorough yet pithy. I hope you continue with this sort of breakdown for future platform releases. Thanks.
Honestly, the dual chipset thing with x670 and x870E is just stupid. You just gain more "connectors" but not more bandwidth. And most of the boards, even the expensive ones aren't even close to using most of a single chipset...
Chipsets are more or less just glorified PCIe switches. It's not expected to fully saturate the uplink with a single device all the time.
Similar to how in networking you hook up every device to 1 GbE on a 48 port switch despite only having a 1 GbE uplink.
I bought an MSI X670E GAMING PLUS WIFI on black week, almost 30% reduced in price. This is because im upgrading from 3700x to 9800x3d and after some research I felt that it filled my needs well and guaranteed a PCIe 5.0 slot for future upgrades. What I didnt know is that seems to be identical to the X870E, which would cost more than DOUBLE of what I just bought the X670E for (which was already pretty expensive).
Literally insane. I was pretty confident with my purchase but this instead made me feel I made an amazingly good purchase.
It crazy how AMD purposely limited the amount of PCIE lanes even on its top chipset.
I mean they could introduce much more lanes in their chipset, but to what avail? Most users won't use them.
And then you only have a PCIe4x4 between CPU and chipset.
When you need more Pcie Lanes buy an Threadripper and TRX50 Plattform.
The Amount of Lanes are fine for the most people on Mainstream Plattforms.
And you dont find a higher or better Lane Amount on the Competition Motherboards included 1851 MBs next Time.
@@johnscaramis2515 on the top chipset the argument is not that users will not use them, the argument is users don't have them to use. Threadripper is dead, we need consumer level boards with lots of IO.
@@TheTaurus104 threadripper is a dead platform, we need more pcie lanes for high speed io, 300G network cards are right around the corner and in order to use a lot of those cards you need accelerator cards to obtain the actual speeds.
@@marktackman2886 Intel claims up to 48 PCIE lanes on arrow lake
I'm very happy with my Asus ROG Strix X670E-A Gaming Wifi board and 7800X3D as a combo. Just needed a bios update back then to support the X3D cpu.
I’m happy the new x870 boards came out. I just built my pc and all the good x670 boards prices were bloated more than the new x870
Motherboards have become way too convoluted at this point. Not only with the different chipsets for each generation, even each motherboard vendor has upwards of 10 different SKUs for each chipset (looking at you, Asus). Just a mess.
Thanks for explaining.
I was torn between X870, X870E and X670E for my 9800X3D.
I ended up with the X670E as that board was 359€ vs. the 511€ X870E Board. And I don't pay 152€ for a USB 4 Upgrade and some Comfort Features that I don't need.
Thanks!
I watched the other mobo video by steve and eventually settled on a B650E PG Riptide Wifi. Trying to go over the specs feels like sorting fantasy magic ingredients.
I basically knew all those things but the sheer amount of data in this video still made my head spin. I'd never be able to remember that if I hadn't already known.
As an ITX user, is there any functional difference between the ASUS ROG STRIX X670e-i and the X870i? Both have the same number of rear USB 3.x ports, 2 USB 4 ports, 2.5Gb Lan, use the FPS-II card, stacked M.2 drives (1 PCIe 5.0, 1 PCIe 4.0), and a variation of the Strix Hive device, but obviously use different chipsets. There seems to be quite a bit of conjecture about whether or not ITX can even take advantage of the additional PCIe lanes offered by X670e, or whether the reduced number of promontory chipsets onboard could actually help control VRM/board temps better.
Legend. Thank You.
24 usable CPU lanes for X870(E) is a partial lie because four of those lanes are reserved for USB4. Partial because you can technically use those four lanes but only externally.
They are not even reserved for USB4, its just a loot easier to take them from the CPU then from the Chipset since the USB4 controller is located right next to the CPU, and it would be a pain in the ass to wire it up to the Chipset instead.
I miss having a bunch of PCIe expansion slots during the old days... Even an AGP port with 6 PCI slots (non-Express slots, mind you). I for one am going with 25GBit networking (QSFP) that connects from my gaming/workstation desktop to my server for fast transfer rates.
Now explain to users that the Asrock B650 Steel Legend Wifi while being a non-E board still comes with PCIe 5.0 for the first PCIe slot and NVMe.
Yea, AsRock f up the naming there; they definitely wanted to replace the original, awful steel legend b650e, that also has pcie 5.0 x16 slot, with this one
Goated board, going to pair it with the 9800x3D.
@@seylaw because Asrock was feeling generous with the gamers and wanted to make them happy?
But I am sure it's going to split and share the lanes if you occupie all the ssd, m.2 and pcie slots, and that will drop the speed.
Asrock X670E Pro Rs is still the goat 🐐 🙌
Because the speed of the CPU lanes has absolutely nothing to do with the chipset, that's what Tim completely fails to mention. The speeds listed in the video are only the "minimum" required speeds, but manufacturers can totally design boards with faster PCIe or M.2 connections.
@@dereklang4451Wonder what makes it awful something wrong with that board? Just asking
Thank you so much for cutting through the bullshit and informing us in a simplified manner.
Did say if youre looking for a B650 or B650E then got for the ASRock X870 Pro RS. If you want a X670 or X670E then got for a ASRock X870E Nova
If you want something in de middle, Asrock B650e Taichi Lite might be an option as well. Has USB4, post code and an external clock generator.
@@HAM_An1mA imo ASRock is goated, other brands are just that… brands
Other brands are Starbucks while ASRock is the local coffeeshop with that super cute girl who makes the best coffee in the world
Who the fuck would ever go for X870(E) over X670E/B650E, you'd literally be downgrading.
recommended web sites to buy on the states (USA)? thanks in neweeg taaiichi lite is out od stock, thanks
@@MajinOthinus people who arent looking for an E-ATX board
Thank goodness AM4 was so good, I have no need to do any upgrades anytime soon after going to an 5700X3D. Probably ride it out until AM6 hits so can wait until all this blows over.
Pretty sure we'll see the 600 series, and maybe excluding the A620, to be slowly phased out in favor of the refreshes. Look, it's already obvious that DIY desktop side isn't that much profitable for them currently so they'll try to squeeze out as much as possible before enterprise/data center side upward trend dies down.
Anyway, AMD/Intel... please make your next platforms to have more PCIe lanes. Ryzen | intel 9s are already workstation capable chips except for quad-channel and more pcie lanes for more pcie storage.
Hey Tim, the chart @ 4:00, the Asrock BB650M-HDV/M.2 should be Asrock B650M-HDV/M.2. 4th from bottom.
Talking about "lower-tier" x870e boards while showing a x670e godlike .... priceless
Tim was like "I am bringing too much clarity for free here, let's add some confusion to balance things out again". Meanwhile B-roll was adjusted on Patreon (jk).
This helped quite a bit. Thank you!
B650E is my go to. If I can stretch the budget a bit, then maybe I will get a motherboard with an X870 chipset, but it doesn't really offer anything over B650E that would justify any price increase.
Fantastic summary, looks like my ASUS ROG STRIX X670E-F GAMING WIFI was a good buy last Christmas.
_Strix_ is only a good buy if you are fascinated by blinking lights and love paying 25% extra for nothing.
@@Gaius__ Luckily it was on sale and the other boards didn't have the USB I was after. I really don't care for the blinking lights either. Can you guess how much I got it for?
@@Soundmaster91 Well, anything below 200 bucks would be great. It is a good board, no doubt, just has the typical ASUS and especially Strix prices.
Proposal:
1. CPU can multiplex bandwidth for lanes (committed rate) or motherboard includes non-blocking PCIE switch: so lower PCIE generation = more lanes.
2. All slots are physical x16 (or higher) and wired into the CPU.
3. Active lane allocation (between slots & bifurcation) and PCIE generation usage is controlled in the BIOS
4. Chipsets are installed in PCIE slots
Is there a pd wattage component on the 800 series usb boards ?
You have to check, I think I saw one that delivered ~20-30W on one port but most seem to only deliver the standard 15W for USB-C ports.
Sounds like a way for them to charge midrange prices for entry level hardware, and high end prices for midrange hardware.
Do NOT buy X870(E) boards they are a straight DOWNGRADE from X670E/B650E boards. All they have done is remove choice and forced manufacturers to spend 4 CPU PCIe lanes on a crappy USB4 controller, thereby REMOVING your second PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot.
There is no reason whatsoever to buy an X870(E) board because there are no features on it that couldn't be implemented on an X670E/B650E board; if you do, you are actively wasting your money and buying subpar capability.
I skipped over the B650 because of the lack of PCI 5.0 x16 slots. The B650E seemed like the better buy for the long haul as it had PCI 5.0 support across the board. Very useful video!!
AMD lost too much potential income from AM4 motherboards so they are fixing it now with AM5
Thanks for the video. Definitely reinforces keeping my X670E motherboard and not upgrading to the new boards. Just to have USB 4.0, I can buy an add on board for that. Great review
And people laughed when I bought an X670E. Little did they know I bought an X870E 2 years early.
Thanks for the very informative video. Especially the B840 slippery slope... it is good to know.
I would rather have a AMD board with its "messy" chipsets over Intel with 13th and 14th gen a total disaster
I waited 18 months, but i finally managed to buy an 670e motherboard for a good price (after being overpriced all that time).
It peakesd at a ludicrous 364 last year, i grabbed it a month ago for 196.
Now the wait for Black Friday for CPU sales on the 7000 series.
The government honestly needs to come in and regulate model naming for computer parts. You have to spend hours Googling to figure out what's meeting your desired specs.
Get rid of that "b chipset" in intels naming scheme.
Thank you for the work that you do to clear up this up, very much appreciated!
Reminds me of Intel's oversegmentation back when they had overwhelming marketshare.
Love this video! This info is so valuable when shopping for a board. 💙
16:25 as if AM5 mb's aren't expensive enough
Very good and informative summary Tim, thank you. Awesome work!
I was planning to buy a new motherboard, this table really helped me. I think x870 is the most sensible offering this line up has. Not sure why anyone would even want a x870E mbd
As someone jumping from Intel (RIP 9700k) to AMD - thank you, hands down the clearest explanation of wtf is going on
Video starts @ 14:50. Everything is just specification reporting. Good information to have documented somewhere, but probably would have been better off as an educational piece to bookmark and reference via other videos.
Edit: Also as a rebuttal to the point of B850 V B840 - If a typical consumer cares about I/O they are likely searching for a mobo by filtering based on the I/O configuration, and not necessarily what name is on the Chipset. I recommend that approach to users because it removes all the marketing from the mess. "Do you need USB4? Do you have many USB devices that run @ 10Gbps or faster? How many M.2 disks would you want to use?" This navigates the spiderweb of Chipsets, and nested-SKUs within each of them.
I watched this video 3 times , I'm still overwhelmed
Incredibly helpful, thank you!
Much needed explanation 👏
My Asus TUF Gaming B650 has a PCIe 5.0 Primary M.2 slot as do others as well. I think you should fix that on your chart as Optional PCIe 5.0. My B650 is essentially a B850.
Really appreciate this summary of chipsets!
What a mess, thank you for the hard work of breaking it down!
Very nice summary, thank you 👌
@tim 16:25 E stands for extra spending ... you don't need it, but you will want it.
Thank you so much for this!!! I am right now looking to upgrade from a b450 + 5600x to something with more connectivity speed and memory for some vm work and games. The direct comparison is what I need to make sense of the madding options available.
First AMD Build on my 9800X3D, so confusing with all these different boards but this was helpful, still tough to decide w pricing, might wait til the ASROCK X870 Nova is back in stock..
Most people slap 2 dims in the MB, 1 stick of NVME, 1 graphics card and they are good to go (yes fans, cooler, etc). Most do not need more than this basic setup so having anything better than a basic B840 really is not required. Yes go for the B650/ B850 for extra NVME and marginally better sound but in reality as a percentage of users very few use 3 NVME and need more than 1 to be PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 and / or require PCIe 5.0, fewer then overclock the cpu (expo available on the B840). Generally we buy better because we can not because we need to.
I understand that some X870E motherboards use 4 of the CPU PCI gen5 lanes for the (ASMedia?) USB4 controller. This means that they loose the 2nd gen5 M.2 slot compared to their X670E predecessor. I’d rather have 2 gen5 M.2 FWIW.
From what I saw, every single X870(E) board takes four lanes directly from the CPU. Not sure if they could in theory use chipset lanes for USB4 or if it has to be CPU lanes because it needs the IGP for display out.
My z97 motherboard still going strong. I don’t do any rendering or play modern games so see no need to upgrade to newer hardware.
Great comparison. Thank you!
Picked up a MSI X670E Carbon for $399. I feel like that was a pretty good deal to pair with the 9800X3D.
Thanks for the efforts, Tim!
Happy with Gigabyte X670E Aorus master that Steve also uses for testing :) Can recommend (quite a bit cheaper now but it seems it's going to be end of life (fewer shops have it in stock)).
Thanks for the much needed clarification. I am still in limbo if B650 or X870 is the right choice for a new config when B650 is more expensive than the X870.
Sweet jesus. This has been extremely helpful.
The biggest thing to watch out for is many of the x870(e) boards have issues with splitting the 16x gpu slot to 8x with the additional of USB4. Given X series board owners are typically looking for more complex builds this is a huge issue. There are some terrible bifurcation choices out there.
It’s crazy how high bandwidth is now in desktop platforms. All anyone needs is usb 3 for like 99% of the peripherals that will be connected. Even a high bandwidth storage array would need one usb 4 port.
Thanks for the video, very useful in this chipset jungle 😉😊
My basic rule of thumb is that for any generation my go-to boards are basically either Gigabyte Master, ASRock Taichi, or MSI Ace. With a preference for Gigabyte Master, followed by ASRock Taichi. I tend to avoid Asus, as they tend to be overpriced and have occasional issues. Even though they're considered high end. Not that I would never get them...just Gigabyte (and AsRock) generally has better value, are rock solid, usually offer a better layout for my purposes, and I like their BIOS.
It more accurately reflects their position against intel now, people used to compare b650 against b760, which was dumb because B650 allowed cpu and memory overclocking while B760 didn't, Atleast now their B series are closer.
Also what A620 boards support pcie4 nvme from the chipset? that appears to be an old typo, Theres pcie4 to the chipset but seems only 3.0 from the chipset on every board I've looked at. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_chipsets#AM5_chipsets
Going from 8x3.0 lanes to 10x3.0 lanes means they're 2 over intels h610 equivalent.
amd X670E/X870E: 1x pcie5 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie5 gpu +extras
amd B650/B850: 1x pcie5 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 (5 optional) gpu
intel Z690/Z790: 1x pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie5 gpu*
amd B840/A620: *2x* pcie4 cpu-m.2, 1x pcie4 gpu
intel B760: 1x pcie4 cpu-m.,2, 1x pcie5 gpu*
*(pcie5 NVME steals from the GPU)
I'd rather a consistent naming scheme than something that seems like it's trying to pull one over on me.
@@gctypo2838 Like Z(690) is higher than B(660) is higher than H(610)?
How generations count up 12th...13th....14th....200? Or like rebranding 13th gen as 14th gen? Or 14400 is a 12th gen architecture?
I could go on but it's obvious you're new if you're still learning nothing in silicon valley is named consistently.
ALL X870E board PCie 5.0 GPP x4 is NOT Available, They are used for USB4 Controller.
that is why i went with a x670e so that i don't confuse myself even more.