All Purpose Joint Compound or Fast Setting Mud? Which do you need and when?
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- Опубликовано: 3 ноя 2018
- Learn Why you sometimes NEED Fast Setting Mud, and what's the difference between All Purpose Joint Compound and Fast Setting Mud. Open the description for more information.
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Great video as a contractor for over 30 years it’s great to see a side by side video and when time is of the essence you can see why hot mud was invented
This is why I bought a bag of 45 min. light weight compound. Learned so much from watching these videos.
I was impressed that you were even able to make the pre mixed mud look as good as you got it to when you first applied it.
Love your videos. It is great to see guys who are craftsmen letting people know what to expect. Many years ago I used mud where I should have used plaster. It finally worked but took a lot of coats and much time. Back when I first started some of the mud had asbestos in it. The same with the plaster.
Today when I do a plaster repair if it is small I use durabond or easy sand. I really love the durabond but you better get it right because like you say-no sanding there.
Keep up the good work and GOD BLESS !
Thanks for explaining why the cracks occurred in my attempt to level-out an uneven surface using all purpose mud instead of fast setting mud. Thank you.
You’re welcome and I’m glad I could help. I have hundreds more ideas for videos to help everyone so I hope you subscribed and clicked on the bell icon. I will see you on the next video, thanks, Guy
I like using 45 minute for everything (I'm not fast enough to use 20 minute) until the top coat where I use pre-mix. Your video hit all the reasons why this is the way to go! Strength underneath with a nice finish on top!!!
Hello, thank u very much for your videos. We’re first time home owners. U have given us hope for the feature of our old home that was built in 1928. 🌺🌸🌺🌸🌺🌸
Awesome I'm glad to hear it.
Awesome and very informative video! Thanks a lot for comparing the two products with your demo! It helps me understand their pros and cons and pick the right one for my DIY project. I feel more confident in working with the hot mud that I'm going to use for the first time tomorrow. Thanks again!
I always liked this Vets videos
Thanks for taking the time to film, edit and post this. Very helpful to demonstrate the difference. I'm very much a visual learner.
I have been enjoying your videos. Wish I would have found this video before I made a repair after bathroom mirror removal. I used general purpose and had the cracks and serious shrinkage....now I know why. Keep up the amazing work!
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for a real great overview of both products!!!
Well-researched and thought out lists of pros and cons. Good job!
Thanks so much for your knowledge...have a small project you have inspired me to go through with, can’t wait to see how it turns out...Your work is awesome👍🏾
You are so welcome! If you would like to email me before and after pics, I'll feature them in a future video. (emails in the video description)
Great video very informative, really helped me figure out which one to use for a thicker layer, thanks!
Glad I could help and thanks for commenting!
Excellent video Guy! I think some of your videos are finally getting thru my thick ( hot mud) skull!
Lol, glad to hear it.
Amazing difference between the two types of mud. Wow.
They are way different. Hot mud is excellent for low shrinkage and much stronger, but more expensive, much harder to sand, and harder to work with. Thanks for commenting!
Thanks for taking the time to do this experiment! Learned a lot!
Glad it helped
Excellent video explaining something I never knew.
Great video, and info, Thank you for ur Service...
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. Guy
Just what I needed. In my case I needed a large quantity of mud, needed to save money, and did not know ahead of time that I had a large area to potentially fill. I was contemplating whether there was a good way to use regular mud for the job, but thanks to your video I know not to waste my time. I actually have enough drywall on hand to remove the affected portion, shim the stud level with furring strips, and then tape and bed normally to finish the job. In my case I can replace and level the drywall in about the time it will take me to return with hot mud, plus the end result is preferred to having a thick fill on the wall.
It's good food for thought to know that hot mud is best for the first coats on tape in the future. I'm going to have to make do without it for the time being though. I used hot mud when I built my laundry room simply because I was so terrible at taping and bedding when I started that I needed the short cure time to make up for all the extra coats, sanding, etc I was doing at the start.
I will add this about hot mud, the shorter cure time really helped me truly learn the process because I could do so many steps in the same day. I was able to learn from mistakes I had made an hour or so earlier instead of the day before, and I was able to apply those lessons because I was still doing that same step on other seams the same day. With regular mud it's one step for the day then it gets resumed the next after curing. Also that long cure time tempts rookies, like myself, to overwork seams etc in a vain attempt to be able to sand and paint the next day rather than coat again and wait another.
Definitely anyone new to drywall finishing or who has always struggled to get good results needs to check out more of your videos as well as others. It's not an art. It's a craft. Anyone who learns the process can do it and get great results. You just need to ignore your preconceived ideas of how it's done and learn first how it is actually done. My laundry room walls still look amazing with crisp corners and not a single crack. That's because for the first time I actually learned how to do it from pros along the way. I also bought the right tools for the job rather than making do. Corner knifes are gold. I now prefer to tape inside corners rather than mess with bead. It takes practice but not as much as one might think once they are practicing the right process rather than trying to practice getting better results from the wrong one. Once a person gains some competence and confidence, finishing drywall is somewhat enjoyable and good results, especially in your own home, provide long term satisfaction and an ever present sense of accomplishment.
Update: I had some other spots needing a fill and then not long after commenting I discovered a leak which put me at Lowes anyway. I bought a bag of 45. Now I just hope it's enough and just maybe I can even test it as my first layer over some tape as a bonus.
Thank you very much you explained some of my questions
The all purpose didn't have a fighting chance on that vertical surface. From the moment it was applied to the surface, it was definitely not as thick and slowly sliding down the wall as the drying process was occurring. Good demonstration:)
Good comparison, thanks. As a newbie I intend to use 45-min mud for the blown out corners and large gaps. I'll probably also use it as pre-fill in the various regular dips and gaps. I think what will help me is to first mark several areas with painter's tape so that I don't mistakenly skip them. I've got plenty of time.
I do a LOT of small patches, and 20 minute easy sand is a godsend! I use it to tape, then clean my tools, come back and knock it down real quick with my knife before I skim with it one time, then clean my tools again, then top coat with multi purpose. Come back the next day to sand, texture, and paint.
If it's available in your area try the proform brand it's mixes so much better faster and sands better
I avoid using ez sand
Great video! Thanks for sharing this and putting in the time and effort for the rest of us.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you sir. Very informative!
Glad to help.
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These videos are Gold!!!
5 minute and 20 minute are my favorite. I top with proform all purpose compound black top
Guy I made a fatal arrow last week not having watched your videos. I wanted to text you a while very quickly so I use 5-minute hot mud in a hopper....
What a disaster..... It was already setting up in the bucket as I was mixing it. By the time I got it in the hopper it was setting really hard and trying to clean it out in a panic was quite funny....
Forget about trying to clean it out of the bucket.
Thanks for your videos
Wow. Sorry but that’s funny now that it’s over. I never ever use hot Mud for spray texture and I’ve rarely hand textured with it. Hope the Hopper still works.
Impressive. Thank you.
Helpful video thank you
Great demo. Thanks!
You're welcome. Thanks for the comment. 😎✌️
Great information, Thank you
Hot mud sands easier with a rough texture soaking wet rag than it does with sandpaper. Plus you get the advantage of not having to worry about dust. Perfect for patching and remodeling. Just skim with all purpose afterwards, let it completely dry and paint it.
Very instructional. Thanks much from a DIY hack-master!
Thanks, glad I could help you out 😎. And thanks for subscribing!
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Wow This is Great Info!!!🎉
I usually use hot mud for prefilling and smaller repairs
Awesome info!
Thank you very much
You're welcome. Thanks for commenting.
Thank you very much.
You are welcome! And, Thanks for subscribing and helping me hit the 100,000 subscriber mark by my birthday on June 10th, 2021. I truly appreciate it. Guy
Thanks for the video.
Great tips!
Thanks for the info. I’ve been doing drywall for 30 years. I recently started using hot mud thanks to your videos. I love it. >>>
Great to hear!
Thank you
I like hot mud for deep fills and second coat on repairs or small jobs like a bathroom so I can do more in one day. If you use metal corner beads they are usually deeper than the paper or on remodels where old walls, especially plaster, meets up with new drywall often there is an unevenness that needs to be leveled out first. If you're not experienced with it use the longer setting types like 45, 90 or even 210.
What about for new drywall and adding texture?
I hate how the different drywall compounds basically make no sense on the bag. Like you said.. Easy sand... NOT!!
All the companies need to agree on descriptions and purposes.
You have Video on taping mudd and gave finish mudd from big box store most of them only Carry 3 or 4 Types of mudd.
if you needed to fix a spot that deep, you'd be using mesh tape or California patch or similar. but good examples of the differences
Thank you for being elaborate!👌
Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it. Hopefully it clarified some things for you.
I use 20mix then do my second coat with the 20 thin always thin do a rough sand then I use the all purpose mix the blue bucket plus 3 for my finsh coat then my last sand ever one as there ways
I do it all with hot mud. Only time I'll use all purpose or light-weight is for skim coating ceilings and walls so I can sand it easier. Never use hot mud for topping on ceilings.
I mostly use hot mud since i do mostly repairs
So I tried 20 minute quickset for the first time. Usually, I just use general purpose and live with the cracking and shrinking (I run another pass over it). First, be aware they are not kidding about the 20 minute setting time. It started hardening during the work, so I threw out that batch and made a new one. I can't argue with the result. Its hours later and it clearly is not dry (its not white), but there is no cracking or shrinking. I am thinking of trying 40 minute for the next project, hopefully same result but a little more working time.
Thanks for the tips.
That’s the big benefit of hot mud along with being able to recoat it quickly. These slower setting versions will shrink slightly more but it’s barely noticeable.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY Yea I figured the contractor types would love the 20 minute stuffs. I could see how just moving faster I could have made it work.
Plaster of Paris is Gypsum powder which has been heated to drive off the water. It reacts with water in sort of a chemical reaction (hydration) to become hard without shrinking appreciably. But you have less than 10 min to use it. Joint compound is just Gypsum in water, like clay, and similarly dries over ~24 hr. Like clay, it shrinks. I suspect the "hotter" joint compounds are just different fractions of Plaster of Paris mixed with regular Gypsum powder.
Awesome video
Hey buddy you still doing ok? I just discovered you on RUclips, all I can say is thank you for the egg beater tip 👍
I’m having a hell of a time with my health but I’m still trying.
This was a huge help! Thank you so much for this video, while this is what I suspected, it was great to see this "science" experiment play out in a video. Thank you from the bottom of my mud pail! It does seem like some people recommend using the "all purpose" as a top coat to smooth things out (ultra thin of course)----any thoughts on that---maybe that is the only true use for the all purpose?
I pretty much use all purpose for everything including taping and coating but I use hot mud for deeper fills and quick re-coats
Hi kilted guy, this video was easily digestible and helpful for a first timer like myself. I looked at homedepot and one brand that sticks out to me is DAP. I’m curious if Plaster of Paris is used interchangeably with general fast setting compound or if they are different products altogether. I have a small project that needs repairing and I’ve seen good stuff with fast setting products from DAP from a previous product from them. So the project is a whole that’s about 2 to 3 inches deep and about 5 inches across. Would you recommend using plaster of Paris in 1” or less increment before applying additional layers or will it be ok to just go wild on the first go?
Well I’ve never tried plaster Paris and wouldn’t recommend it. I’d stick to no more than 1 inch deep at a time with fast setting mud.
Thanks so much for your video it was very well put together and very very informative!! Really appreciate the information!! I’m a texture artist, which materials do you recommend for just creating textured walls and then painting it creatively?? Do I need a sealer or something before I paint?? Thank you!
All purpose mud works for any texture and you do have to seal it with a primer before you do any painting. Thanks
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY thank you sooooo much!! Really appreciate the help and advice!!🙌🏽👏🏽🙏🏽
Hey Kilted Guy Would you rather do a faily large repair with hot mud and gamble if u could finish it? Or make two trips and make sure its on the money and not make as much?
I was taught by my father and my uncle who did this from their teenage years and were the fastest drywaller‘s I ever worked beside. My dad knew that time is money and in 1974 he moved us here to Grand Junction Colorado and opened up the first big O tires store. I remember him telling me that he had $150,000 in the bank to do this. My point is that he knew that the key to making a lot of money is to be fast, efficient and do a quality job.
So I always try to get a job done in one day and I can often fix as many as 10 repairs in that one day including texture and cleanup. That’s one reason I have switched to using the skim coating blades for repairs more often as it does speed up the job slightly.
I'm fixing damaged drywall. do you have to be a pro to apply this so it looks smooth whats the best way to sand it for a homeowner. do you use 2 coats of hot mud. if the hot mud finish isn't smooth can you smooth with a final coat of pre-mixed easy sand. i've done a lot of drywall with premixed joint compound. is this hot mud very difficult to make smooth. or for a beginner, you would suggest forget it forget it.
Hello. Well if you truly need that much help, I do offer a consultation page at: www.thatkiltedguy.com/advice-page
Great video! I'm a novice trying to prep a wall to tile my kitchen. When removing the old tile, I damaged the wall (making a big gouge in it). I tried filling the gouge with all purpose joint compound and it caused cracks (now I know why! lol!) It is still quite a bit sunken in from the rest of the wall. Is it possible to put hot mud over the joint compound at this point? Trying to figure out how to fix this. Thank you for your help!!
Hello, if the mud dried thoroughly, yes, you can coat over it. If not, I would dig out most of the old mud and dry the remaining. Then use hot mud. OR, just out that part and fix it like a hole, as is the video below.
ruclips.net/video/eYo0Q4NggJ4/видео.html
Hope that helps
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Thank you either way.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY thank you! That helps a lot! Happy to tip!
Thank you!
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY One last question! Is there is brand/type of hot mud that you particularly like or recommend? Thanks again!
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY oh
Hi!
Which joint compound should I use for skim coating?
An all purpose mud like USG plus 3
thx
Thanks, glad I could help you out 😎. And thanks for subscribing! Thanks for helping me build my channel to 100,000 subscribers and beyond
I always understood allpurpose to be for taping and it had more glue in it.
That’s true, but it can work for everything.
How does pre-mixed all purpose compare with hot mud and lightweight plus3? And what are each of their recommended use cases?
That's what the video is about
After how long can you paint over hot mud? And can I apply primer over hot mud?
Same as regular drywall mud, when it’s 100% dry you can prime and paint it
Skim coating over popcorn ceiling thats been painted, plus 3 is getting air bubbles will the bag mud give air bubbles also? Also concerned with the chemical reaction with bag mud on a ceiling?
They all bubble
Legend 🫡
I am repairing the bottom part of a corner bead on the wall in my living room.... I should give several coats of fast setting mud , am I correct?
With fast setting mud, two coats may be enough if you do it right.
Joint compound a good candidate for patching a hole in the wall? Or easy sand is better?
Fast set for deeper fills, plus 3 for the rest
I had to pull some tape out. I was under impression to use 90 to retape so thats what i did. Is 90 good for this or should i use the all purpose? Also the sheetrock 90 bag states do not use for skim coats. Can i apply all purpose skim coat over top of the 90? Should I do that?
You’re right on track on all
I am about to attempt filling a large gap (joint), not big enough for a patch, with 20 min mud ... 1-2 inches wide in places ... also an inside corner ... can I start filling this monster with thin set? Or go with the 20 min mud?
Use hot mud
Thanks. Watched this two days too late
What compound do you recommend for a metal 90 degree outside corner? Your videos are great! BTW!
An all purpose mud works good for this. Never use topping mud for the first coat though
Hey Sir,
Is there anything that you know of, That will make fast set 5 set up faster ?
I only do Repair work, Alot of small repairs, I need a pan full to set up in like 2 mins. If possible.
Thanks in advance for your time !!
Yes, hot water will speed it up but even I won't do that to 5 minute mud as I would end up not being able to clean my tools in time. Id rather put a Fan on it and fire it up the moment I finish coating it. I spend my down time while it's setting up masking, and doing other texture prep work, answering emails, etc.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY Thank You Sir, Appreciate Your Time !!
You're welcome
There is a product out there, a type of powder (gypsum something or other maybe?) that speeds up the setting process. I had a drywall guy I know show me once but I didn't like it. Like he said though hot water speeds it up, also I've found if I mix a batch with some water that I cleaned up tools with another batch of hot mud it sets up a lot faster too.
Yes, Dirty water will do that as well.
How do you keep box mud so it lasts a while after opening it?
I think this video will help- Drywall Mud- Buckets VS Boxes, There is a difference ruclips.net/video/weV_2Hs_vX4/видео.html
Since I am a novice, I need to do a lot of sanding. My last project was a half bathroom with a ceiling and lots of corners. I tried to vacuum up all the dust and my wet dry vacuum clogged up quickly. The filters I use specifically say not to use with dry wall dust. I have never seen a filter that specifically says that it can be used with dry wall dust. Can you make a recommendation on a filter brand or type?
One like this amzn.to/47rO5Sa
Maybe add this- amzn.to/46s2IUb
Or this- amzn.to/40WBYKj
I need advice on the best way to skim coat a very skinny area too small for my 9 in 1 tool. Lol mud butt
For those really skinny areas that are like 1 to 2 inches wide, I usually take a cheap plastic putty knife and cut it down to fit the opening. Cut it just slightly narrower than the opening and coat it like that.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY GREAT TIP!!!THX
Can I used 5 minute mud to also make a light texture? I am repairing 3 small areas in our utility room with a very light stomp texture. Or would you recommend a light setting on one of these Nomax brand spray cans by PPG?
I only use regular Mud for Texture
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY Alright. Thank you sir. Also, thanks for your service. 🇺🇲
Can i tape with easy sand 90 ?
If you’re good enough to not need to sand it, yes.
Is durabond a better alternative for pre-filling since it is stronger than easy sand? Thanks
I think easy sand is just as good, and at least a little sandable.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY Thank you sir!
Hello, if I am doing a small bathroom crack, long to let 20 minute set up before sanding? Thank you!
If you can't put the drywall mud on to where you don’t need to sand it flat, but only need to sand the edges and lap marks, I highly recommend using regular joint compound instead. Hot mud is very difficult to sand. But the rule for any mud is it has to be 100% dry.
So if you are going to use hot mud, make sure you don’t build up the depth like novices often do. Use the hot mud to get the depth you need, and then do your final coating with regular lightweight joint compound and it will make your life immensely easier.
Also if you’re not real familiar with hot mud, I would suggest no faster than 45 minute mud.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY thank you much. I have to do an area around the tub.
I love this guy. Willing to do something hes not comfortable with
But no excuses. True god.dam American!
Pulled off some laminate back splash while redoing counter tops and tore some of the paper... I ordered Guardz and am now prepairing my walls to get smooth again. How many coats of guardz? And then what type of mud or fast dry, or the Home Depot drywall fix do I use?
Check out this video. ruclips.net/video/J7zSqZhBHJo/видео.html
1-2 coats of Guardz.
I had a guy install sheetrock, one sheet he put upside down, can I use that 999
Often the backside won't blister. But yes you can put the 999 or Gaurdz ( link in the description) just to be safe.
So use hot mud for repairs and patch jobs. All purpose when you set new drywall.
I also often put regular lightweight joint compound on as the final coat when doing repairs as it will dry quickly with a fan and it sands much easier if need be.
Hello Anyone, drywall noob here. Can anyone tell me what the date on the bag of the lightweight setting-type drywall joint compound means? Is that the expiration date? Would you use this mud if it's a month over this date? I'm seeing last month's date on bags in Home Depot. Regards.
I honestly wouldn’t worry about it. But that’s most likely just the manufacture date. I have had box mud go bad as it will mold, lose moisture, etc. But I’ve never seen hot mud go bad unless it gets wet while still in the bag.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY Good to hear. Thanks for the reply.
You're welcome!
This video made me get mud butt
Lol, I hate when I get mud butt. Happens most when I'm coating without clothes and I drip mud wrong, lol.
Awesome clip. Now do a tppping/glazing vs all purpose one :)
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY And a reason for it: a lot of skilled people only talk about it - seeing the properties in practice with a list of pros and cons is amazing. I have used a bit 45min hot mud and I still find that I benefited from watching this.
Anything in particular about these 2 muds you would like me to test? Shrinkage? Sandability? Ease of use? etc
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY All of those parameters if there is a way to test them - as many you can think of if it makes a difference on the job: just to show the inexperienced, or those with the wrong understanding (superficial) how the material behaves. One other detail is to show the paint finish difference for a repaired dent - or something - with topping vs all purpose mud as a 3rd layer (the premise being that topping blends better and creates smoother transitions that are less noticeable after sanding - although I've repaired all purpose with no visible ridges after it was painted. So I guess that depends on sanding skills to a certain extent. So - Maybe you can do a batch where you put in the same time of sanding for both, and another batch where you spend enough time sanding both to show how much harder it is to sand all purpose to get smooth transitions so it looks perfect when painted).
And an interesting test - I would think so: topping vs all purpose finish durability once painted. I've always wondered if a weaker mud that sands easier makes the paint job more prone to scratching and whatnot (btw what's your experience with that - I've never used topping mud, I'm renoing at my folks place and I'm going by the numbers as much as I can so I plan on buying topping for wall finishes).
I'll keep all those ideas in mind. I have planned on doing a 'What sands easier' video one day, but not sure the name. And I don't use much topping these days. I tried it for skip trowel but found no advantage, and it weighed more. But it would be good to test it and list the manufacturer benefits.
Thanks for this tutorial I have a cracked paper tape beam that I tried to repair with the 20 quick set and I couldn't even get it out the pan guick enough its was completely rock hard so I wasted 2/ 3 of it, it's good to know about the pros and cons.
Yeah, 45 minute is safer for most novices. If you use 20 just mix quickly and use it quick. It doesn't have to be mixed up perfectly smooth. I often set a 15 minute timer on my phone so I don't go to long.
@@ThatKiltedGuyDIY Thanx.
So why do they say to use all purpose for taping
Because regular weight all purpose has more glue in it.
Is fast set mud equivalent to Uniflott in Europe?
I’ve never heard of it
Thank you for the drywall tutorials, Kilted Guy! You’re a bad a$$.
Thanks!
Are those muds available here in the Philippines? salamat po
Sorry. No idea. I would just look for a lightweight mud and that would be equal to+3. And the regular weight all purpose would be equal to the green label all purpose here.
Been trying to use this damn fast setting mud and I can't get the timing down and apparently I really suck at applying it, I just can't get it to go on the way people do in these videos. I waste so much of it because it hardens too fast. I'm going back to consumer crap lol
I’m going to be launching Drywall courses on my website at drywallacademy.com and will try to clarify the application process even more because I know a lot of you struggle with this. And there’s nothing wrong with regular joint compound. The only time you really need this is for a deeper fill otherwise just be patient and use the other stuff
I’m having a hard time finding the answer but is hot mud actually stronger than all purpose mud?
Yes, A Lot.
Cant u mix the 2 muds together??
Some people do but I don’t recommend it. I’m not a fan of experimenting. It may appear to work but may weaken the adhesion, strength etc. and the manufacturers all say not too. If you choose to do this and have a failure, you won’t be able to get a warranty claim or anything against the manufacture. It’s just not worth the risk to me as I get perfectly good results without experimenting.