You are ignorant fool, the only current apartheid is done by musilms. Read about jizya, dhimmi and the pact of umar. Then read about the ottoman colonial apartheid oppressors fort he last 1200 years. 100 years of palestinians being geno**cidal has no impact on 1200 years of us indigenous folks druze, christinas etc.. TRYING TO SURVIVE FROM GENO MANIACS. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, WHAT A EVIL WORLD
and there is nothing remotley similar to the jim crow south to Israel. To imprint American history on the middle east it not just laughable, but its ignorant and unrelated.
@@MrHenryreynolds Yeah but what about the laws in israel that don't allow you to own property if you are not israeli.that you can't have any jobs not appointed by the goverment and many such cases of discrimination against palestinians?
@@Rod-f6m your bigger point is true: Israel does discriminate against non-citizens. But what you actually said is not true for a variety of reasons. But most importantly, since about 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinians, of course Palestinian Israelis are able to lease government land on the same terms as any other is Israeli.
@@Rod-f6m i’d also add that any kind of charges you’d make against Israel probably applies to all of Israel‘s Arab neighbors, right, obviously Saudi Arabia, and Iran, discriminate heavily on the basis of religion.
@@MrHenryreynolds Unfortunately, that's a red-herring and it's unrelated to the topic, beside these countries aren't democracies or ethnostates like Israel.
The host's consternation over "what if what I see will make clear what I know deep down to be true" is a perfect example of the fragility of liberal morality. He knows-knows!-on some level that, while the details might be complicated, the core truth is not. Living in that "complexity" is mere cover for cowardice, and this interview demonstrates that with precision. ETA: With that cowardice comes, in my opinion, the deep knowledge that the interconnectedness of these struggles ultimately puts the responsibility back on those in power and those with privilege to take their boots off the necks of the people they either directly oppress or whose oppression they benefit from. Another masterclass from TNC.
This was so beautifully written. I feel EXACTLY the same. His denial is only a revelation of his visit to Palestine would make it Certain. & he would then the undeniable truth, and would have to speak. And he is so scared and you can see the cowardice
The way Sean sighs is the same way west siders in L.A. react when dealing with discovering there's a wider world beyond their privilege but not wanting to face it lol
Pretending injustices are complex is the tactic of the oppressor. If you can't recognize things are wrong as they happen you are exactly like the bystanders we criticize in the past. This "gray area" nonsense is a great way to avoid taking a stance on anything, so thank you for recording this because history will have a record of how people rationalized this genocide.
Calling injustices complex is a reflection of reality, rather than the fact-free fantasy land young American activists are living in. It is possible to both acknowledge the tragedy of the humanitarian situation in Gaza, while realising that any country would do the same as Israel to protect its people. The reality is that practically all 'Free Palestine' activists do not care about humanity, they just hate Israel. There are so many terrible conflicts on our planet, many of which have a much greater humanitarian toll than the Arab-Israeli conflict. Yet these activists only care when Israel, which just so happens to be the one Jewish country, is involved.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian American here, my country literally did the same thing Israel is doing now. Wasted 20 years on a War on Terror after 9/11, defeating not one terrorist group. The Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS still exist to this day. Just a couple of years ago we gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban because warfare is the worst tool to use against a militant group. Now Israel is following in our footsteps. So...we just don't learn from history anymore? Every country, including currently Israel, would be foolish enough to do what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan despite it happening in their lifetime, their own memory? And least we Americans didn't have a recent war by an ally to tell us our wars would be failures. In any case, I hope you aren't talking about American activists hating Israel. Americans don't care about Israelis or Palestinians, they care about the US. You just want the US pulled into Israel's war so we can be weakened. Unless you are Israeli, stop simping for Israel, you loser.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian Israel exists because it colonized Palestinian land. Settler colonialism isn't rught no matter which group does it. Zionism is white supremacy!
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian you and people like you will never recognize that this all started when Yiddish speaking European Jews where given 55% of historic Palestine, WHY WOULD ANY PALESTINIAN ACCEPT THAT, you are incredibly IGNORANT and RIDICULOUS.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinianyes we care about Palestinians because they are part of our human society. They are human beings who deserve dignity, freedom, equality and a sovereign country. We will care about these occupied people whom you always want to see under subjugation.
Imagine having the honor to speak to THE Ta-nehisi Coates about one of the most important topics in today’s day and age and doing this sh!t…so fkn disappointing. Find someone that can match Coates Intellect or at least his humanity before you have him on again.
That speaks to how effectively these ideas have been blocked from entering mainstream liberal spaces. He's the first member of the elite liberal club to pierce the wall of silence. But my feeling is his membership in the club will be revoked, and the elites will not internalize any of the information he presented.
”Take the worst things about Hamas, multiply it by 1,000 and it still will not meet the Israeli repression and killing of Palestinians" ~Gabor Maté, Holocaust survivor
Gabor mate doesnt speak for jews or Israel. His son works for the radical far left and discredited "news organization" The Grayzone. Gabor isn't some magical figure just because he's a token holocaust survivor.
The host is so intellectually dishonest and doing all sorts of mental back flips. If you're for an apartheid state just own up to it stop sneaking about and making dishonest inconsistent arguments
Yeah. Like seriously. They might construct a more coherent argument that way. Just own up to the fact that you excuse apartheid, and state your reasoning for it. Or perhaps that you don't, but honestly explains the implicit biases you might be grappling with that makes you lean more towards segregating the Palestinian situation. They think people can't see the obvious mental gymnastics like the one this guy is doing (perhaps hesitantly), and that just makes him look worse.
@tedlogan-k8pWhy would "folk like him" get Sean of RUclips if he turned more to their side? That's what they want, why would they punish him for that? Your hatred for "black eggshells" is making you hella confused!
I honestly don't understand the host's recitence and hesitation. And I don't understand why someone needs to go to a place to understand injustice. This is bizarre.
Probably because his wages are tied to not openly speaking the truth. He knows the truth, as he knows his own child, and every child he sees everyday and night slaughtered by the GOF on his smart phone.
@@chazmack418 lol nope yall are ignorant about history and the colonial oppression brougth upon nonmuslims. What a evil world we live in where the oppressors continue to oppress.
This started back in Nov, 2nd 1917 with the Belfore Declaration not Oct 7th , when in 67 words, the original inhabitants, Palestinians, were reduced to “non Jewish residents.” A clear colonial setter ideology followed to create what is Israel now. One only have to look at their educational system from early childhood to see it clearly as a colonial settler from birth. Greatly appreciate Professor Coats for his humanistic works. Sadly, the control over our government by Pro Israel lobbies and the influence of billionaire on the media and higher education kept us in the dark. Professor Coats is one of those lights that shines to teach all of us. Keep going.
Yes it was absolutely heavily influenced and indirectly caused by the British elites from the UK. They were and still are part of the reasons that part of the middle east is a powder keg
"It matters that Jews are indigenous to the area." Most of the Jews who live there had grandparents who immigrated from Europe and live on land taken from Palestinian families who lived there for hundreds of years.
No, the Jews that live there were there long before the word Palestine even existed when many were forcibly removed by the Romans. If you want to play 'who was there first', you won't win.
Just like many Palestinians, Jews were historically expelled from the Middle East - which is why there were large Jewish populations in Europe. To argue that the Jews are not indigenous to the area requires you to set a completely arbitrary threshold for how long you have to have been present in an area. Most people claiming to be Palestinian were not born in Palestine - following your argument, I could just as easily argue that these people are not indigenous either. Obviously they are, and so are the Jews.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian You could argue whatever you like, you'd be a fool but you could if you wanted to. The reality is that there is essentially zero connection between Ashkenazi jews and the ancient jewish kingdom, who are much more closely related to Palestinians who simply converted over time in large part . its entirely mythical. Isrealis are majority European settler-colonists and always proudly claimed to be, its not a complicated issue. same way the majority of Christians are not descended from the first Christians or Muslims from the first muslims, people converted over time, the idea that Judaism is not a prostyltizing religion was a fairly recent idea and adaptation.
@@chriss780 Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly of European ancestry but it's not true to say there's essentially "zero connection". Most of them still descend in part from ancient Jews who migrated to Europe, as do Mizrahis and other subgroups. I will say though that even if Ashkenazi Jews can claim indigenous heritage to modern-day Palestine, that doesn't mean I support Zionism. I'm not a fan of ethnostates.
To add to your point, Palestinians have been living in Palestine even longer than hundreds of years. You can trace back specific Palestinian towns that have existed in the 20th century for more than 1,000 years. For example, the town of al-Lajjun (whose inhabitants were expelled in 1948, and the town was subsequently destroyed) can be traced back to chroniclers traveling there in 985. That's just one town that had a population of a few thousand Palestinians in a 1945 census.
The host is saying if he was a Palestinian who was pulling his family out of the rubble, he would vote for the end of the state of Israel in a fully democratic state. Where is the complexity then? Or are we just going to brush over the fact Palestinians have been getting killed before and after October 7th. There is a reason the attack on that date happened.
@@thenoblesavage I'm saying the exact opposite of whataboutism. There is no context that has any relevance whatsoever to October 7th since nothing could ever justify it. There is only, and only one, conclusion that can be made.
Sorry but the host here is missing some major things. First off when you say Israel “as a Jewish state” you are saying “Israel as a Jewish ethnostate”, we have long agreed that ethnostates are bad because it almost requires that you be oppressive because you have to maintain your demographic majority, which then by definition makes you NOT a democracy. Secondly, polls of the opinions of Palestinians have been taken over and over and it shows the same thing, support for peace is high when Israel isn’t extolling violence on Gaza and the Palestinian people as a whole but when they are, support for Hamas and their actions shoots up so yea the majority of Palestinians do want to live in peace with the people of Israel but they, understandably, become more supportive of violence when the other side is doing the same to them.
"we have long agreed that ethnostates are bad because it almost requires that you be oppressive because you have to maintain your demographic majority, which then by definition makes you NOT a democracy" You mean like Palestine, and practically every other Arab country? "Secondly, polls of the opinions of Palestinians have been taken over and over and it shows the same thing, support for peace is high when Israel isn’t extolling on Gaza and the Palestinian people as a whole" Interesting how the Israelis have repeatedly agreed to a two-state solution (e.g. the Camp David Accords), yet the Palestinians never have?
Although your points are 100% accurate and fairly articulated, you may be missing the _Bigger_ lesson of *Human Behavior.* Us Humans do not live in, nor share a common reality - speaking about the Universal Human Group here. Us Humans live only to survive as this is the prime directive of our beings. Thus there can be no peaceful compromise between sub-groups of humans in survival conflict. Even the definition of survival is vague and abstract depending on the cultural values of the sub-groups. There can be no hope for modifying our barbaric behavior. Its just who we are, and will always be.
The problem isnt its an ethnostate, the problem is 1200 years of islamic colonial rule. Jizya, Dhimmi, the pact of Umar. The destruction and appropriation of other rleigions (al aqsa is literally based off of a jewish word bait ul madas). SO, no, you have to look at the geno**cide done in the last 100 years by musli**m colonialists. Heck you dont even know the ethnica and religious make up of the region, these people have been under brutal apartheid for 1200 years from the islamic side. Fun fact: Druze, jews, christinas and muslims live in israel they are all indigenous. Maybe you need a bit more context on the historical regiion and the horrors, sheer horrors nonmuslims went through or sects that were not considered muslims. On top of that, you only choose to speak about the issues in Israel vs Palsetine. Completely ignore the geno**cides of others because it makes islamists look bad. Sheesh, yazidis have been missing from their geno***cide attempt by islamists from all islamic countries around the world when they went and fought for islamic colonialist muslim group called ISIS.
Undoubtedly many would be afraid to go to Israel/Gaza/West Bank--due to the fear of what they might see--THE TRUTH. Who better than Mandela, Bishop Tutu-men who visited Israel and lived under Apartheid throughout most of their lives said ,what they witnessed is worse than Apartheid.
“Jews are indigenous and have nowhere else to go.” Identity is complex, as is belonging. With respect, many Israelis have recent roots elsewhere and hold multiple passports.
Israel propagandize so they can commit settler colonialism, apartheid and genocide while claiming to be Indigenous to the land they are burning, bombing and contaminating. That sounds like mind f*ckery to me.
They are not indigenous. That’s why they can’t take dna tests there! Don’t you know?! Got nowhere to go? They are everywhere and in every government and big position in business. They have every passport that can travel anywhere. They have so much influence over your mind you can’t even be honest with yourself!
To say it's complicated is a cop-out. To say slavery and other forms of oppression are complicated is the biggest copout. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free..
Yup, as soon as someone says it's complicated, I know they are kidding themselves. I've seen non stop shredded children bodies, volunteer doctors who say children are being killed by snipers. Amputated children over and over and over. Starvation, orphans, bodies stiff under the rubble hugging their parents.
It's either intellectual laziness or moral cowardice that makes someone feel like they have to both side an issue that ultimately comes down to basic human rights.
"The First Genocide in History Where its Victims Are Broadcasting Their Own Destruction in Real Time in The Desperate, So Far Vain Hope That The World Might Do Something," --Lawyer for South African GV At The International Court of Justice in January
Man, they get aid, polio shots, food and a chance to negotiate a surrender from the people supposedly engaged in genocide. I guess the herrero victims or the armenian victims of genocide would have loved that. Weird that egypt had its border closed so long while appearently they were genociding palestinians. Did they not care?
@@ffershchhusd Sorry, the international community of 100+ nations who recognize Palestinian sovereignty and Holocaust scholars who coined the term "genocide" beg to differ. There is no definition you can mention that excludes 40,000+ civilians being bombed.
The clarity he has goes beyond his professional knowledge, it's all his human experience. It's beautiful to hear someone able and decided to be clear because he actually understand.
The crys of mutilated childern, screaming out for their murdered parents, as what's left of their limbs are being amputated without anesthesia will haunt me for the rest of my days. We have left humanity, and mammalia. We have become a virus. Non-thinking, non-feeling cluster that destroys all living things in its path.
The host is on the verge of learning a life-altering lesson; he is aware of this on some level, and it is frightening. He is feeling his guardian angel pushing him to grow spiritually. Let's give him the same grace we all would appreciate when we're on the cusp of redefining our most foundational beliefs about our world. ❤
If he were a layman off the street I'd agree, but he's in a broadcast journalism career and has a platform that reaches thousands and thousands. He's an embarrassment.
Right is right, Wrong is wrong! What needs to be understood is how and why action of right is taken and wrong is taken. What was wrong, can it be corrected and not repeated? What was right can it hold and be repeated? Complexity will be found!
All my support and admiration for Ta-Nehisi Coates. He knew the forces that would line up against him if he spoke the forbidden truth. But he did it anyway.
You don’t need to go there to see what’s happening! It’s all over social media. The images are horrific! It isn’t even a discussion. No need to push back and try and seem balanced. It’s not balanced.
What happened on October 7th, was no different from the Warsaw ghetto uprising on 1943. The Jews were put into ghettos and were slowly liquidated until they finally rose up in armed resistance. That's how I view what happened on October 7th. It was an uprising from people who have been systematically liquidated for decades. Everyday for a year leading up to October 7th a Palestinian was murdered
I hate that we have to massage people into believing that Palestinians are humans in essence. That they were done an injustice 76 years ago and ever since. That they do feel, love and suffer. That they dream, aspire and hope. That they do have rights. This colonial world is messed up.
"Never let a man imagine that he can pursue a good end by evil means, without sinning against his own soul. The evil effect on himself is certain." - Robert Southey
The error in this conversation is that Sean is starting off from Oct. 7th... like most Americans! A "chosen ignorance "... a tragedy in itself. Ta-Nehisi, what a light you are in this dark moment of history and humanity.
@15:50 I don't think it is just about going there to see it. People justify what Israel does because they claim if the Jews who live there don't do what they are doing then the Holocaust will be revisited on them. For me, it is about the fact that they have been engaging in crimes since the beginning, and their victimhood is always the justification...the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, the bombing of the King David Hotel, the murders of US soldiers on USS Liberty, the Nakba, the destruction of Palestinian libraries and hiding their historical texts and artefacts...all of these historical moments smack of decades of cruelty, evil and neo-colonialism. This isn't new, it is just that ppl are talking about it now! Knowing the history is part of it.
Everyone forgets that Judaism is not a race. It is a religion that was invented between 1200-400 BCE. There are people who adhere to that faith from Eastern Europe to the Americas, to Ethiopia, Yemen and India. It is not a race, and hence the believers are not indigenous to any stretch of land. Fwiw, I did live in Israel for three years, I left because of the virulent racism on the part of the colonial regime that occupies the land. I also could not stand the flagrant apartheid on display. That state is rogue. I'm with Mr Coates on this, except on one count: It is devastatingly simple. It's not even close to being complex. Lastly, it is not the suffering of the Palestinians that was most jarring for me. It's the fact that I was having brunch on a Saturday in Tel Aviv, business as usual, while Gaza was being invaded, bulldozed, and bombed in 2007 and 2008. October 7th was a horrible incident, but let's not forget it is the result of 80 years of oppression, land theft, and apartheid.
Judaism does have ethnic traits to it. Mizrahi Jews for instance are different from Ashkenazi Jews, who are different from Sephardic Jews. All differences based on ethnicity, thing is these terms were coined largely BY ISRAEL. Meaning the ethnic diversity given to Judaism is only a figment of imagination coined by an apartheid state wishing to come up with parameters by which they can oppress Arab Jews without a care in the world
I think reducing Judaism to just a faith can be problematic. It's the same kind of simplification that allows Islamophobes to get away with their racism and bigtory by pointing to the notion that they're merely critisizing a faith. That said, there's a powerful case to be made that Israel has created a unique new definition for Judaism that stands apart from both the faith and any ethnicity. When examined, this identity is an imagined hypernationalistic or hypermilitaristic one whose focus is extreme tribalistic loyalty to what's ultimately just a modern nation state. It readily throws both a faith-based and an ethnicity based Jewish identity under the bus if it doesn't suit its tribalistic or nationalistic purposes. We can see this merely examining how it defines Jewishness for aliyah purposes, selectively picking or rejecting elements from both the faith based and the lineage based criteria. It'll bypass the religious criteria for religious practice in favor of a lineage based one and visa versa so all that matters in the end is a sort of... 'Israeliness' instead.
I listened to the entire episode of grey area and Sean seems to be completely disingenuous if not outright dishonest in this “debate”. He doesn’t seem to listen to the guest at all. He keeps trying to make it “complicated” and tries really hard to highlight harm Israelis have suffered without ever trying to understanding or even acknowledging the heart of the matter. I used to think of Sean as an intellectually honest host but this episode changed all that. I don’t know if he’s worried about the backlash from powerful groups but this seemed totally out of character for Sean and his show. It was disappointing
I have friends that are Palestinians and many of them have lost half of their family in bombings.. I have Palestinian people that I go to their stores here in the United States and they have spoke about they can't even hear from their family members anymore their children's their mothers their grandfathers. Haven't spoke to them in months don't know if they are still alive. And are they terrorists is that child a terrorist is that grandmother that grandfather that daughter that auntie that Uncle are they terrorists. Do I not supposed to feel their pain do I supposed to look over what it is that they're going through. Because the United States got to deal with Israel my tax dollars and your tax dollars are going to fund them being murdered and being killed. Do I not supposed to feel their pain as me as a black man do I only supposed to feel the pain of black people. It hurts me to my core to see my friends and people that I know in my community who have family there and have lost half of their entire family.. we will pay for this the United States of America will pay God will judge us all. My mother and father always said to me if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.......
Bo ho , "i havent opined on this issue" they have no way of reaponding to Ta. Yet they just want to say its complicated. Dude wants to compare the occupation and nakba since 1948 commited till today by a UN recognised country with no sanctions to an event that lasted 24 hours by a terrorist group.
Why does Sean start off asking where do Jewish people go? They can go anywhere. They shouldn't be discriminated against anywhere. Safety is based on living in an ethnostate where everyone looks like you, thinks like you and believes like you. That safety is guaranteed through abundance for all and the rule of law and equal protection under those laws.
The fact that the guy cannot talk for once about Palestinians without mentioning Kibbutzes and Israelis is so disgusting. These people will NEVER change
This host wants wear rose colored glasses. The Palestinians have been undergoing 75 years of ethnic cleansing and he could easily watch what the Palestinians are going through but chooses not to.
to say its complicated is such a cop out. both sides are suffering but one side ( the Palestinians ) are suffering multiple billion folds than that of those who are oppressing them. stop Israel's war crimes on Palestinians,hold them accountable and treat Palestinians with humanity
Sean should go there and see it firsthand. Sign up to go with orgs that bring people to the West Bank to live with Palestinians and see what they go through.
Most Palestinians don’t support terrorism ie killing civilians, Hamas did. Most if not all Palestinians believe in resistance though. What an ignorant thing to say and not counter, by both speakers here. Secondly, one has a first-rate military and is the occupier. Not that complicated
Who told this man that Jews are indigenous to the land? Jews don’t share a single common origin-nearly half of Israel’s Jewish population traces ancestry to Europe, while others come from North Africa, Yemen, India, Iran, Ethiopia, and even Inca communities. Judaism, like other religions, has seen centuries of conversions. Under Israeli law, converts can immigrate to Israel, and anyone with just one Jewish grandparent qualifies for citizenship through the Law of Return. This makes Jewish identity far more diverse and complex than a simple claim to indigeneity
I'd also really appreciate if Sean would show evidence via the research that a significant number of Palestinians supported/still support what happened on Oct. 7th.
Before you go read as much as you can about the history of the conflict. Read Norman Finkelstein, Ilan Pape, Noura Erakat, Rashid Khalidi, Marc Lamont Hill's and other scholars who have written books and who are all over RUclips with interviews regarding the history and the context of the conflict.
When the oppressors whom historically has oppressed tell those whom are oppressed what they should feel and think because of their historical oppression, make it make sense!
Why is Sean so conflicted about going and seeing the situation first hand? It's like he is afraid he will go and see the truth about the oppression of the Palestinians and will then feel a moral obligation to address it. What moral cowardice.
@@justin___ I somehow think there is a slight difference between ethnically cleansing 80% of an indigenous population, occupying land, forcing the indigenous population to navigate checkpoints, arbitrary raids and arrests, apartheid, an open air prison, a genocide and eating meat.
@@JamesR1986 Ashkenazi Jews, who make up approximately half of the Israeli population, date their ancestry back to Central Europe, not West Asia. You'd be thinking of Mizrahi Jews, who Israel has also oppressed via policies like those that forcibly sterilized North African Mizrahi Jews.
@@JamesR1986 Yes! Obviously, yes! There are plenty of countries in Europe and North American where Jewish people can live in safety, where they aren't constantly being bombed by antisemitic neighbours. This PTSD from WW2 is utterly irrational.
Ta-Nehisi is correct occupations are wrong the same way the United States has occupied the people of Puerto Rico for 126 years in America's last colony.
Palestinian suffering did not begin on 7 OCT. They have been suffering since Israel started their illegal expansion and unrestrained violence towards them.
Jewish people can't claim to be "indigenous" to Palestine when most of the Jewish population in the world was living in Europe. It had been that way for _over a thousand years._ Some Jews were indigenous to Palestine...but that is a very small number. In 1900, only 3% of the population in Palestine was Jewish. By in 1948, after the Holocaust, there were still 3.5 million Jews still living in Europe. By contrast, there were only 800,000 Jews in the entire Middle East at that time. Like other religions, like Christianity, Jews migrated, converted, etc. over thousands of years. This is not indigeneity. Are all Christians indigenous to Palestine/Israel because that's where Christianity started out too? White Jews are Europeans. Ethiopian Jews are Ethiopian. Arab Jews are Arab. Persian Jews are Persian. They are not all Israeli and belonging to the Levant.
I grew up white in Jim Crow south Louisiana. There is nothing acceptable or redeemable about apartheid. Thank you Ta-Nehisi. You are awesome!
there is never a justification for a crime against humanity. Apartheid is a crime against humanity.
You are ignorant fool, the only current apartheid is done by musilms.
Read about jizya, dhimmi and the pact of umar.
Then read about the ottoman colonial apartheid oppressors fort he last 1200 years.
100 years of palestinians being geno**cidal has no impact on 1200 years of us indigenous folks druze, christinas etc.. TRYING TO SURVIVE FROM GENO MANIACS.
YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, WHAT A EVIL WORLD
and there is nothing remotley similar to the jim crow south to Israel. To imprint American history on the middle east it not just laughable, but its ignorant and unrelated.
@@magicari Israel is actually worse
@@magicari you dropped this 👑
You can't wake up somebody who is pretending to be asleep.
I typically use the water splashing and loud whistle blow method, but that's just me.
yup. it is indoctrinated. gaslighting at its best.
This is not complicated. This is on us.
Competing nationalism aren't that complicated, but they require a lot of hard work to overcome.
You don’t want to SEE the truth, because then you’ll have to TELL the truth, and then be challenged by powerful people who can harm you.
Aparthied is aparthied. Accusing Ta-Nehisi Coates of not understanding complexity is simple-minded.
So the fact that Israeli citizens are about 21% gentile, mostly muslim Arabs, that isn't a significant difference from Apartheid South Africa?
@@MrHenryreynolds Yeah but what about the laws in israel that don't allow you to own property if you are not israeli.that you can't have any jobs not appointed by the goverment and many such cases of discrimination against palestinians?
@@Rod-f6m your bigger point is true: Israel does discriminate against non-citizens. But what you actually said is not true for a variety of reasons. But most importantly, since about 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinians, of course Palestinian Israelis are able to lease government land on the same terms as any other is Israeli.
@@Rod-f6m i’d also add that any kind of charges you’d make against Israel probably applies to all of Israel‘s Arab neighbors, right, obviously Saudi Arabia, and Iran, discriminate heavily on the basis of religion.
@@MrHenryreynolds Unfortunately, that's a red-herring and it's unrelated to the topic, beside these countries aren't democracies or ethnostates like Israel.
The host's consternation over "what if what I see will make clear what I know deep down to be true" is a perfect example of the fragility of liberal morality. He knows-knows!-on some level that, while the details might be complicated, the core truth is not. Living in that "complexity" is mere cover for cowardice, and this interview demonstrates that with precision.
ETA: With that cowardice comes, in my opinion, the deep knowledge that the interconnectedness of these struggles ultimately puts the responsibility back on those in power and those with privilege to take their boots off the necks of the people they either directly oppress or whose oppression they benefit from. Another masterclass from TNC.
Underrated comment, very well said!
So well put. Courage is needed here. Courageous leaders willing to break the status quo
wow. i cant believe some of thus garbage. the badness of the situation???? this came out of his mouth?
He really doesn’t want to take any responsibility, truly sad. Better to stew in ignorance.
This was so beautifully written. I feel EXACTLY the same. His denial is only a revelation of his visit to Palestine would make it Certain. & he would then the undeniable truth, and would have to speak. And he is so scared and you can see the cowardice
The way Sean sighs is the same way west siders in L.A. react when dealing with discovering there's a wider world beyond their privilege but not wanting to face it lol
whew i know that's right
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Talking from experience?
I appreciate the comment, ‘you cannot occupy a people without visiting cruelty upon them.’ Powerful!!!
Pretending injustices are complex is the tactic of the oppressor. If you can't recognize things are wrong as they happen you are exactly like the bystanders we criticize in the past. This "gray area" nonsense is a great way to avoid taking a stance on anything, so thank you for recording this because history will have a record of how people rationalized this genocide.
Calling injustices complex is a reflection of reality, rather than the fact-free fantasy land young American activists are living in. It is possible to both acknowledge the tragedy of the humanitarian situation in Gaza, while realising that any country would do the same as Israel to protect its people. The reality is that practically all 'Free Palestine' activists do not care about humanity, they just hate Israel. There are so many terrible conflicts on our planet, many of which have a much greater humanitarian toll than the Arab-Israeli conflict. Yet these activists only care when Israel, which just so happens to be the one Jewish country, is involved.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian American here, my country literally did the same thing Israel is doing now. Wasted 20 years on a War on Terror after 9/11, defeating not one terrorist group. The Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS still exist to this day. Just a couple of years ago we gave Afghanistan back to the Taliban because warfare is the worst tool to use against a militant group.
Now Israel is following in our footsteps. So...we just don't learn from history anymore? Every country, including currently Israel, would be foolish enough to do what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan despite it happening in their lifetime, their own memory? And least we Americans didn't have a recent war by an ally to tell us our wars would be failures.
In any case, I hope you aren't talking about American activists hating Israel. Americans don't care about Israelis or Palestinians, they care about the US. You just want the US pulled into Israel's war so we can be weakened. Unless you are Israeli, stop simping for Israel, you loser.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian Israel exists because it colonized Palestinian land. Settler colonialism isn't rught no matter which group does it.
Zionism is white supremacy!
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian you and people like you will never recognize that this all started when Yiddish speaking European Jews where given 55% of historic Palestine, WHY WOULD ANY PALESTINIAN ACCEPT THAT, you are incredibly IGNORANT and RIDICULOUS.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinianyes we care about Palestinians because they are part of our human society. They are human beings who deserve dignity, freedom, equality and a sovereign country. We will care about these occupied people whom you always want to see under subjugation.
Imagine having the honor to speak to THE Ta-nehisi Coates about one of the most important topics in today’s day and age and doing this sh!t…so fkn disappointing. Find someone that can match Coates Intellect or at least his humanity before you have him on again.
I got “what’s the point of going to Palestine if I’m just gonna feel worse about it”
Dude spends 17 minutes slowly realizing that The Gray Area is a terrible name for his show
There is no gray area in genocide.
lol
I think this host is really disingenuous, and is very difficult to watch. Ta nehisi is awesome.
Exactly! Strange interviewer.
I agree. It was sickening right from his first statement. Will never listen to this again and spread the words.
This guy is a reflection of what the problem is... The way he can be so oblivious is so privileged and speaks typical.
I mean he should go but the lack of moral clarity with apartheid and genocide is wild
Incredible how he's being treated like a revolutionary thinker when activists and historians have been saying this for decades 😂
Exactly.
@@rebeccadent464it’s gotta be comical at this point
That speaks to how effectively these ideas have been blocked from entering mainstream liberal spaces. He's the first member of the elite liberal club to pierce the wall of silence.
But my feeling is his membership in the club will be revoked, and the elites will not internalize any of the information he presented.
And yet this host still claims "it's complicated"
Idiotic interview
Didn't know this was hosted by Mr. Both Sides of Apartheid.
Who knew there was some moral grey area of Apartheid
@@quepena4879 "but have you considered the context for the crime against humanity?"
”Take the worst things about Hamas, multiply it by 1,000 and it still will not meet the Israeli repression and killing of Palestinians" ~Gabor Maté, Holocaust survivor
My Man!
Professor Mate, u r a hero of mine. Ty for your life words and activism
Gabor mate doesnt speak for jews or Israel. His son works for the radical far left and discredited "news organization" The Grayzone. Gabor isn't some magical figure just because he's a token holocaust survivor.
_"It's like watching a holocaust on TikTok"_ - Gabor Mate, October 2024
The host is so intellectually dishonest and doing all sorts of mental back flips.
If you're for an apartheid state just own up to it stop sneaking about and making dishonest inconsistent arguments
Exactly.
Agree
Yeah. Like seriously. They might construct a more coherent argument that way. Just own up to the fact that you excuse apartheid, and state your reasoning for it. Or perhaps that you don't, but honestly explains the implicit biases you might be grappling with that makes you lean more towards segregating the Palestinian situation. They think people can't see the obvious mental gymnastics like the one this guy is doing (perhaps hesitantly), and that just makes him look worse.
@tedlogan-k8pWhy would "folk like him" get Sean of RUclips if he turned more to their side? That's what they want, why would they punish him for that? Your hatred for "black eggshells" is making you hella confused!
💯💯💯
I hope the the interviewer paid TNC a tuition fee because he was clueless at the beginning of the interview.
I honestly don't understand the host's recitence and hesitation. And I don't understand why someone needs to go to a place to understand injustice. This is bizarre.
He can't bring himself to face the idea that the white "civilized" ones are not the good guys
My question to the host is "Why are so afraid to see the truth?"
Because ignorance is bliss.
Probably because his wages are tied to not openly speaking the truth. He knows the truth, as he knows his own child, and every child he sees everyday and night slaughtered by the GOF on his smart phone.
@@chazmack418 lol nope yall are ignorant about history and the colonial oppression brougth upon nonmuslims. What a evil world we live in where the oppressors continue to oppress.
He can't bring himself to accept that the white western "civilized" people might be the bad guys
because this particular truth is bad for his career DAH
This started back in Nov, 2nd 1917 with the Belfore Declaration not Oct 7th , when in 67 words, the original inhabitants, Palestinians, were reduced to “non Jewish residents.” A clear colonial setter ideology followed to create what is Israel now. One only have to look at their educational system from early childhood to see it clearly as a colonial settler from birth. Greatly appreciate Professor Coats for his humanistic works. Sadly, the control over our government by Pro Israel lobbies and the influence of billionaire on the media and higher education kept us in the dark. Professor Coats is one of those lights that shines to teach all of us. Keep going.
Yes it was absolutely heavily influenced and indirectly caused by the British elites from the UK. They were and still are part of the reasons that part of the middle east is a powder keg
"It matters that Jews are indigenous to the area." Most of the Jews who live there had grandparents who immigrated from Europe and live on land taken from Palestinian families who lived there for hundreds of years.
No, the Jews that live there were there long before the word Palestine even existed when many were forcibly removed by the Romans.
If you want to play 'who was there first', you won't win.
Just like many Palestinians, Jews were historically expelled from the Middle East - which is why there were large Jewish populations in Europe. To argue that the Jews are not indigenous to the area requires you to set a completely arbitrary threshold for how long you have to have been present in an area. Most people claiming to be Palestinian were not born in Palestine - following your argument, I could just as easily argue that these people are not indigenous either. Obviously they are, and so are the Jews.
@@サンゴ礁Scleractinian You could argue whatever you like, you'd be a fool but you could if you wanted to.
The reality is that there is essentially zero connection between Ashkenazi jews and the ancient jewish kingdom, who are much more closely related to Palestinians who simply converted over time in large part . its entirely mythical.
Isrealis are majority European settler-colonists and always proudly claimed to be, its not a complicated issue.
same way the majority of Christians are not descended from the first Christians or Muslims from the first muslims, people converted over time, the idea that Judaism is not a prostyltizing religion was a fairly recent idea and adaptation.
@@chriss780 Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly of European ancestry but it's not true to say there's essentially "zero connection". Most of them still descend in part from ancient Jews who migrated to Europe, as do Mizrahis and other subgroups.
I will say though that even if Ashkenazi Jews can claim indigenous heritage to modern-day Palestine, that doesn't mean I support Zionism. I'm not a fan of ethnostates.
To add to your point, Palestinians have been living in Palestine even longer than hundreds of years. You can trace back specific Palestinian towns that have existed in the 20th century for more than 1,000 years. For example, the town of al-Lajjun (whose inhabitants were expelled in 1948, and the town was subsequently destroyed) can be traced back to chroniclers traveling there in 985. That's just one town that had a population of a few thousand Palestinians in a 1945 census.
The host is saying if he was a Palestinian who was pulling his family out of the rubble, he would vote for the end of the state of Israel in a fully democratic state. Where is the complexity then? Or are we just going to brush over the fact Palestinians have been getting killed before and after October 7th. There is a reason the attack on that date happened.
Doesn't matter. Nothing can justify October 7th.
@@8isthis whataboutism is absolutely tone deaf and the entire problem with this situation.
@@8is ok I can understand nothing justifying October 7 but why is October justifying what happens after October 7
@@thenoblesavage I'm saying the exact opposite of whataboutism. There is no context that has any relevance whatsoever to October 7th since nothing could ever justify it. There is only, and only one, conclusion that can be made.
News also forgets what happened before Oct.7th. They only think of Oct.7th and thereafter, never before.
Sorry but the host here is missing some major things. First off when you say Israel “as a Jewish state” you are saying “Israel as a Jewish ethnostate”, we have long agreed that ethnostates are bad because it almost requires that you be oppressive because you have to maintain your demographic majority, which then by definition makes you NOT a democracy. Secondly, polls of the opinions of Palestinians have been taken over and over and it shows the same thing, support for peace is high when Israel isn’t extolling violence on Gaza and the Palestinian people as a whole but when they are, support for Hamas and their actions shoots up so yea the majority of Palestinians do want to live in peace with the people of Israel but they, understandably, become more supportive of violence when the other side is doing the same to them.
"we have long agreed that ethnostates are bad because it almost requires that you be oppressive because you have to maintain your demographic majority, which then by definition makes you NOT a democracy"
You mean like Palestine, and practically every other Arab country?
"Secondly, polls of the opinions of Palestinians have been taken over and over and it shows the same thing, support for peace is high when Israel isn’t extolling on Gaza and the Palestinian people as a whole"
Interesting how the Israelis have repeatedly agreed to a two-state solution (e.g. the Camp David Accords), yet the Palestinians never have?
Although your points are 100% accurate and fairly articulated, you may be missing the _Bigger_ lesson of *Human Behavior.* Us Humans do not live in, nor share a common reality - speaking about the Universal Human Group here. Us Humans live only to survive as this is the prime directive of our beings. Thus there can be no peaceful compromise between sub-groups of humans in survival conflict. Even the definition of survival is vague and abstract depending on the cultural values of the sub-groups. There can be no hope for modifying our barbaric behavior. Its just who we are, and will always be.
@@サンゴ礁ScleractinianYou need to study the history of the region
The problem isnt its an ethnostate, the problem is 1200 years of islamic colonial rule.
Jizya, Dhimmi, the pact of Umar. The destruction and appropriation of other rleigions (al aqsa is literally based off of a jewish word bait ul madas). SO, no, you have to look at the geno**cide done in the last 100 years by musli**m colonialists. Heck you dont even know the ethnica and religious make up of the region, these people have been under brutal apartheid for 1200 years from the islamic side.
Fun fact: Druze, jews, christinas and muslims live in israel they are all indigenous.
Maybe you need a bit more context on the historical regiion and the horrors, sheer horrors nonmuslims went through or sects that were not considered muslims.
On top of that, you only choose to speak about the issues in Israel vs Palsetine. Completely ignore the geno**cides of others because it makes islamists look bad.
Sheesh, yazidis have been missing from their geno***cide attempt by islamists from all islamic countries around the world when they went and fought for islamic colonialist muslim group called ISIS.
@@basuta-dshrara They’re from Iraq, per the Old Testament
🤣
Undoubtedly many would be afraid to go to Israel/Gaza/West Bank--due to the fear of what they might see--THE TRUTH. Who better than Mandela, Bishop Tutu-men who visited Israel and lived under Apartheid throughout most of their lives said ,what they witnessed is worse than Apartheid.
“Jews are indigenous and have nowhere else to go.” Identity is complex, as is belonging. With respect, many Israelis have recent roots elsewhere and hold multiple passports.
@@dlitepix3752 doesn't matter
And US citizens are paying for their Healthcare with our tax dollars. Unbelievable.
Israel propagandize so they can commit settler colonialism, apartheid and genocide while claiming to be Indigenous to the land they are burning, bombing and contaminating. That sounds like mind f*ckery to me.
They are not indigenous. That’s why they can’t take dna tests there! Don’t you know?! Got nowhere to go? They are everywhere and in every government and big position in business. They have every passport that can travel anywhere. They have so much influence over your mind you can’t even be honest with yourself!
Of course they have 'roots' elsewhere.
Just Google "Jewish Diaspora" and you would understand the past century history, specially in Europe.
To say it's complicated is a cop-out. To say slavery and other forms of oppression are complicated is the biggest copout. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free..
Yup, as soon as someone says it's complicated, I know they are kidding themselves. I've seen non stop shredded children bodies, volunteer doctors who say children are being killed by snipers. Amputated children over and over and over. Starvation, orphans, bodies stiff under the rubble hugging their parents.
The interviewer…who gave him a job?
It's either intellectual laziness or moral cowardice that makes someone feel like they have to both side an issue that ultimately comes down to basic human rights.
"The First Genocide in History Where its Victims Are Broadcasting Their Own Destruction in Real Time in The Desperate, So Far Vain Hope That The World Might Do Something," --Lawyer for South African GV At The International Court of Justice in January
Not a genocide
Man, they get aid, polio shots, food and a chance to negotiate a surrender from the people supposedly engaged in genocide. I guess the herrero victims or the armenian victims of genocide would have loved that. Weird that egypt had its border closed so long while appearently they were genociding palestinians. Did they not care?
Words have 0 weight or meaning anymore. This being considered a genocide is a joke
Anne Frank
@@ffershchhusd Sorry, the international community of 100+ nations who recognize Palestinian sovereignty and Holocaust scholars who coined the term "genocide" beg to differ. There is no definition you can mention that excludes 40,000+ civilians being bombed.
The clarity he has goes beyond his professional knowledge, it's all his human experience. It's beautiful to hear someone able and decided to be clear because he actually understand.
If this discussion was about Ukraine he would be very clear about the injustice.
The Awe of this man Ta Nehisi Coates. You are a powerful speaker.
The host is the reason why the world is a bad place
The crys of mutilated childern, screaming out for their murdered parents, as what's left of their limbs are being amputated without anesthesia will haunt me for the rest of my days.
We have left humanity, and mammalia. We have become a virus. Non-thinking, non-feeling cluster that destroys all living things in its path.
The host is on the verge of learning a life-altering lesson; he is aware of this on some level, and it is frightening. He is feeling his guardian angel pushing him to grow spiritually.
Let's give him the same grace we all would appreciate when we're on the cusp of redefining our most foundational beliefs about our world. ❤
If he were a layman off the street I'd agree, but he's in a broadcast journalism career and has a platform that reaches thousands and thousands. He's an embarrassment.
"I feel like i have no idea what I'm talking about"... Yeah.. exactly
Ta-Nehisi coates is a Tiger
Right is right, Wrong is wrong! What needs to be understood is how and why action of right is taken and wrong is taken. What was wrong, can it be corrected and not repeated? What was right can it hold and be repeated? Complexity will be found!
All my support and admiration for Ta-Nehisi Coates. He knew the forces that would line up against him if he spoke the forbidden truth. But he did it anyway.
“We’re gonna pay for it.” Coates is incredible.
after this convo search "Michael Brooks it's not that complicated" and you will see this whole convo in 7 minutes.
just ask yourself why october 7 th hapend it will remove all of your doubts and be fare about it
You don’t need to go there to see what’s happening! It’s all over social media. The images are horrific! It isn’t even a discussion. No need to push back and try and seem balanced. It’s not balanced.
What happened on October 7th, was no different from the Warsaw ghetto uprising on 1943. The Jews were put into ghettos and were slowly liquidated until they finally rose up in armed resistance. That's how I view what happened on October 7th. It was an uprising from people who have been systematically liquidated for decades.
Everyday for a year leading up to October 7th a Palestinian was murdered
I hate that we have to massage people into believing that Palestinians are humans in essence. That they were done an injustice 76 years ago and ever since. That they do feel, love and suffer. That they dream, aspire and hope. That they do have rights.
This colonial world is messed up.
The host is so disingenuous. The airport in Tel Aviv is packed, where are they going? Back to their countries, mostly Europe.
If after this the interviewer doesn’t go and investigate himself, it’s on him. His choose to remain ignorant or he just doesn’t care.
"Never let a man imagine that he can pursue a good end by evil means, without sinning against his own soul. The evil effect on himself is certain."
- Robert Southey
Right. Palestinians will never have a state through violence. Never.
The error in this conversation is that Sean is starting off from Oct. 7th... like most Americans! A "chosen ignorance "... a tragedy in itself. Ta-Nehisi, what a light you are in this dark moment of history and humanity.
@15:50 I don't think it is just about going there to see it. People justify what Israel does because they claim if the Jews who live there don't do what they are doing then the Holocaust will be revisited on them. For me, it is about the fact that they have been engaging in crimes since the beginning, and their victimhood is always the justification...the assassination of Folke Bernadotte, the bombing of the King David Hotel, the murders of US soldiers on USS Liberty, the Nakba, the destruction of Palestinian libraries and hiding their historical texts and artefacts...all of these historical moments smack of decades of cruelty, evil and neo-colonialism. This isn't new, it is just that ppl are talking about it now! Knowing the history is part of it.
Everyone forgets that Judaism is not a race. It is a religion that was invented between 1200-400 BCE. There are people who adhere to that faith from Eastern Europe to the Americas, to Ethiopia, Yemen and India. It is not a race, and hence the believers are not indigenous to any stretch of land.
Fwiw, I did live in Israel for three years, I left because of the virulent racism on the part of the colonial regime that occupies the land. I also could not stand the flagrant apartheid on display. That state is rogue.
I'm with Mr Coates on this, except on one count: It is devastatingly simple. It's not even close to being complex. Lastly, it is not the suffering of the Palestinians that was most jarring for me. It's the fact that I was having brunch on a Saturday in Tel Aviv, business as usual, while Gaza was being invaded, bulldozed, and bombed in 2007 and 2008.
October 7th was a horrible incident, but let's not forget it is the result of 80 years of oppression, land theft, and apartheid.
Judaism does have ethnic traits to it. Mizrahi Jews for instance are different from Ashkenazi Jews, who are different from Sephardic Jews. All differences based on ethnicity, thing is these terms were coined largely BY ISRAEL. Meaning the ethnic diversity given to Judaism is only a figment of imagination coined by an apartheid state wishing to come up with parameters by which they can oppress Arab Jews without a care in the world
?? Bro. You can literlly do a DNA test to see if someone is jewish lol. How is that not a race & ethnic group?
Jews a race and they certainly aren’t white
Interesting thoughts and reminders, thank you for sharing!
I think reducing Judaism to just a faith can be problematic. It's the same kind of simplification that allows Islamophobes to get away with their racism and bigtory by pointing to the notion that they're merely critisizing a faith. That said, there's a powerful case to be made that Israel has created a unique new definition for Judaism that stands apart from both the faith and any ethnicity. When examined, this identity is an imagined hypernationalistic or hypermilitaristic one whose focus is extreme tribalistic loyalty to what's ultimately just a modern nation state. It readily throws both a faith-based and an ethnicity based Jewish identity under the bus if it doesn't suit its tribalistic or nationalistic purposes. We can see this merely examining how it defines Jewishness for aliyah purposes, selectively picking or rejecting elements from both the faith based and the lineage based criteria. It'll bypass the religious criteria for religious practice in favor of a lineage based one and visa versa so all that matters in the end is a sort of... 'Israeliness' instead.
Coates is so clear about apartheid and the treatment of the Palestinian people.
Coates is Brilliant
I listened to the entire episode of grey area and Sean seems to be completely disingenuous if not outright dishonest in this “debate”. He doesn’t seem to listen to the guest at all. He keeps trying to make it “complicated” and tries really hard to highlight harm Israelis have suffered without ever trying to understanding or even acknowledging the heart of the matter. I used to think of Sean as an intellectually honest host but this episode changed all that. I don’t know if he’s worried about the backlash from powerful groups but this seemed totally out of character for Sean and his show. It was disappointing
Love this man Coates
suuuuper powerful stuff from Coates...
I Love You Mr. COATES
You are such an amazing human being
I could listen to Ta-Nehesi all day!
lol sounds like Jay Z to me.
How am I just finding this genius mind?
I have friends that are Palestinians and many of them have lost half of their family in bombings.. I have Palestinian people that I go to their stores here in the United States and they have spoke about they can't even hear from their family members anymore their children's their mothers their grandfathers. Haven't spoke to them in months don't know if they are still alive. And are they terrorists is that child a terrorist is that grandmother that grandfather that daughter that auntie that Uncle are they terrorists. Do I not supposed to feel their pain do I supposed to look over what it is that they're going through. Because the United States got to deal with Israel my tax dollars and your tax dollars are going to fund them being murdered and being killed. Do I not supposed to feel their pain as me as a black man do I only supposed to feel the pain of black people. It hurts me to my core to see my friends and people that I know in my community who have family there and have lost half of their entire family.. we will pay for this the United States of America will pay God will judge us all. My mother and father always said to me if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.......
All the while, Bibi is expropriating thousands of new settlement acres. . .
It's funny to see how some Americans think, that their cultural specifics somehow translate around the world no matter what.
Thank you for pointing this important point out
what do you mean? and what are you referencing when you say this?
"I'm afraid to change my opinion on this so I stay in the dark."
Coates taking on more bad faith interviews with class and ease
Bo ho , "i havent opined on this issue" they have no way of reaponding to Ta. Yet they just want to say its complicated.
Dude wants to compare the occupation and nakba since 1948 commited till today by a UN recognised country with no sanctions to an event that lasted 24 hours by a terrorist group.
Great segment. Truth: host just said the modern version of "have the wolf...." Thank you guys
Why does Sean start off asking where do Jewish people go? They can go anywhere. They shouldn't be discriminated against anywhere. Safety is based on living in an ethnostate where everyone looks like you, thinks like you and believes like you. That safety is guaranteed through abundance for all and the rule of law and equal protection under those laws.
The host won't have the same reaction to 'knowing' first hand because he identifies more with the oppressor than the oppressed.
If you are watching this in 2324 I hope it is not complex anymore.
The fact that the guy cannot talk for once about Palestinians without mentioning Kibbutzes and Israelis is so disgusting. These people will NEVER change
This host wants wear rose colored glasses. The Palestinians have been undergoing 75 years of ethnic cleansing and he could easily watch what the Palestinians are going through but chooses not to.
to say its complicated is such a cop out. both sides are suffering but one side ( the Palestinians ) are suffering multiple billion folds than that of those who are oppressing them. stop Israel's war crimes on Palestinians,hold them accountable and treat Palestinians with humanity
Sean should go there and see it firsthand. Sign up to go with orgs that bring people to the West Bank to live with Palestinians and see what they go through.
Walk in the shoes of a Palestinian
That sight from the host @ 9:57 is the realisation that Coates is absolutely right. We have de-humanised them, it is on us to fix it..
Comments passed the vibe check im so happy.
i am as well ❤️ love to you friend
The solution is freedom. Period.
Vox is keeping up with good journalism. Come on Sean! go there and see
Most Palestinians don’t support terrorism ie killing civilians, Hamas did. Most if not all Palestinians believe in resistance though. What an ignorant thing to say and not counter, by both speakers here. Secondly, one has a first-rate military and is the occupier. Not that complicated
Privilege makes good people unwilling to do the right thing.
It is not that hard to put oneself into the shoes of Palestinians as the host is making it out to be. LOL C'mon.
Ta-Nehisi Coates is the best guest to have ❤
sean illing: xyz is terrible and inexcusable…. but
Who told this man that Jews are indigenous to the land? Jews don’t share a single common origin-nearly half of Israel’s Jewish population traces ancestry to Europe, while others come from North Africa, Yemen, India, Iran, Ethiopia, and even Inca communities. Judaism, like other religions, has seen centuries of conversions. Under Israeli law, converts can immigrate to Israel, and anyone with just one Jewish grandparent qualifies for citizenship through the Law of Return. This makes Jewish identity far more diverse and complex than a simple claim to indigeneity
Ta-Nehisi's mind is like a goldmine of knowledge and truth.
I'd also really appreciate if Sean would show evidence via the research that a significant number of Palestinians supported/still support what happened on Oct. 7th.
Yeah, and people should google “Hannibal directive”
This dude is real white
FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
@@ubik5453 🫡🫡🫡
@@Kenza4Luv 👍
FREE ISRAEL!
Before you go read as much as you can about the history of the conflict. Read Norman Finkelstein, Ilan Pape, Noura Erakat, Rashid Khalidi, Marc Lamont Hill's and other scholars who have written books and who are all over RUclips with interviews regarding the history and the context of the conflict.
When the oppressors whom historically has oppressed tell those whom are oppressed what they should feel and think because of their historical oppression, make it make sense!
FREE PALESTINE!!
Why is Sean so conflicted about going and seeing the situation first hand?
It's like he is afraid he will go and see the truth about the oppression of the Palestinians and will then feel a moral obligation to address it.
What moral cowardice.
Do you eat meat? :) Just curious. Moral cowardice is easy to denounce when it ain't your own.
@@justin___ actually no, I haven’t eaten meat in almost 26 years.
@@Base612 Awesome. No notes. :)
@@justin___ I somehow think there is a slight difference between ethnically cleansing 80% of an indigenous population, occupying land, forcing the indigenous population to navigate checkpoints, arbitrary raids and arrests, apartheid, an open air prison, a genocide and eating meat.
Weirdy.... You are weird.
Are you from the UK? because man you are the real weirdos.
Read some history man, it will help with the weirding.
2:30 "Jews are also indigenous in that land, and have nowhere else to go". WOW!?!?!?
So they do have somewhere else to go?
@@JamesR1986 Ashkenazi Jews, who make up approximately half of the Israeli population, date their ancestry back to Central Europe, not West Asia. You'd be thinking of Mizrahi Jews, who Israel has also oppressed via policies like those that forcibly sterilized North African Mizrahi Jews.
@@mars7304 what happened in europe in the 20th century...
Jews come from Judea, unlike Arabs who come from Arabia and in the last 400 years have colonized many parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa
@@JamesR1986 Yes! Obviously, yes! There are plenty of countries in Europe and North American where Jewish people can live in safety, where they aren't constantly being bombed by antisemitic neighbours. This PTSD from WW2 is utterly irrational.
Ta-Nehisi is correct occupations are wrong the same way the United States has occupied the people of Puerto Rico for 126 years in America's last colony.
Palestinian suffering did not begin on 7 OCT. They have been suffering since Israel started their illegal expansion and unrestrained violence towards them.
There’s an oppressor and the oppressed
It’s amazing that you feel you don’t know what you’re talking about, but have a lot to say in defense of apartheid. Lol incredible.
I applaud both for actually having a conversation about this topic.
Jewish people can't claim to be "indigenous" to Palestine when most of the Jewish population in the world was living in Europe. It had been that way for _over a thousand years._ Some Jews were indigenous to Palestine...but that is a very small number. In 1900, only 3% of the population in Palestine was Jewish. By in 1948, after the Holocaust, there were still 3.5 million Jews still living in Europe. By contrast, there were only 800,000 Jews in the entire Middle East at that time. Like other religions, like Christianity, Jews migrated, converted, etc. over thousands of years. This is not indigeneity. Are all Christians indigenous to Palestine/Israel because that's where Christianity started out too?
White Jews are Europeans. Ethiopian Jews are Ethiopian. Arab Jews are Arab. Persian Jews are Persian. They are not all Israeli and belonging to the Levant.
The Gray Area... I am not a convert. That guy seemed quite unprepared for the interview, and his affect was more that just a bit contrived.