So glad to see a Pastor who is not all about himself and willing to look out for his musicians. This is the first time I have seen a Pastor do this and it makes my heart glad. I wish churches locally would view this. I have been a church musician for 35 years and have never been done right.
I've played at my church for 10 years and have recieved less than $1000 in that 10 YEAR period. It hasn't bothered me up until last year when they denied my request to get paid $25 dollars for: Playing MY keyboard Teaching the Choir Composing music Buying supplies-music, ink, cds, paper, folders, paying other musician to play with me because I'm the only musician. (Hundreds of dollars from my own pocket) Not to brag but did I mention I am in school for my doctorate in music? I think I'm worth at least $25 a week. :-( I think I'm done being used.
That's sad bailing on Gods people for lack of money! We must trust God for the means of our survival and not the church! If they say no, it shouldn't bother you, that means that God has a plan! Trust God and not man is what i say!
I say pay the musicians. It's a lot of work for them to be at rehearsal, practicing on their on, and then expected to be at every event. It's a lot. Pay them.
It’s a job because the church treat us like it is a job they look at us funny if we’re late if we miss a service or engagement the question our loyalty they threaten to fire us they treat us like employees so we should get paid like employees not only that a lot of us musicians go to school for it in this profession just like anything else
Whoever liked my comment I would love to have a personal conversation with you because I’m so sick of this I’m playing for church right now during this pandemic and I’m not working I lost my job I’m only getting paid $50. And the church where are used to play yet in Virginia yes they paid me $788 monthly and I know some people are going to be like that’s a reasonable amount and to a certain degree it’s not that bad and I was grateful because that was the most I’ve ever gotten from a church however with that being said because the church was a big church it was not a make a church but it was a fairly large decent size church probably about 500 members it could seat. The church was busy we had five choirs each of the choirs had their own night for rehearsals and then on top of that we had two services on Sunday and whatever choir that was designated for that Sunday they sung both services so I had to be there Monday night Tuesday night Wednesday night Thursday night and Saturday mornings and also two services every Sunday 7:30 AM and 11 o’clock and the choir traveled a lot when I applied for secular jobs I did not get off the positions because my availability was very bad because it was not available because I was at the church. And if the Lord see fit that I was able to get the job in spite of my availability I got little to no hours
@@curtisdrummerellerbe9544 That's a problem. If the church wants to have consistent musicians then they should pay the musicians. Here's the deal, when an artist sells a painting, they are not getting paid for just the painting. They are getting paid for the painting AND the years of practice. Also, I can have a servant's heart and help park cars, clean up, or greet people at the church. But musicians are still practicing when they leave the church. So while others may be able to work OT on their jobs, go to school, or just hang out with their families...key musicians are probably using that time to practice. Either pay the musicians or don't complain if they can't commit.
Do you know what EVERY person who has ever told me "you need to have a servants heart" have in common? EVERY last one of them was on the church payroll.
@JeremyRice3 I totally feel you, I been playing in my church for over 8 years and never received a payment for playing. But the way you have to look at it is, your payment does not necessarily have to come from the the "Church's" bank account. What I'm trying to say is, keep your heart in the right place and God will provide no matter what. He has provided me with everything I need and more and I'm never out of work, he has never let me down and he will not let you down, God Bless
The thing is, most churches aren't looking at paying musicians in a scriptural type of way. The church wants it's musicians to participate for the passion of leading the church in worship, and only that. For some reason they think that if they pay musicians, we'll only be doing it for the money, which is completely backwards. When you pay your musicians, you can devote more time to the ministry. Your musicians can pay a babysitter so they can fit in an extra practice. You're musicians can use that money for the wife/husband and kids to go have a fun night so that they can make it to practice without feeling like they've dumped their family for the night. When you pay your musicians, you can expect more out of them... More excellence can be brought to the church... Things can get a lot better.
+Jake Smith Pls mate don't fool yourself... because in the Bible David wasn't paid to play the harp... if u think that you must be paid to play an Instrument in the house of the Lord you got to be out of your mind!!!
+Mr Richs don't fool yourself putting words in my mouth. I've never been paid to play at church and I've played every week for 8 years. We should be paid, but obviously ministry is more important so I'm fine playing for free.
Yes refreshing to see. I'm so used to pastors demanding that they get more money and even brag about how blessed they are. Even though the money that they are so blessed with originally came from the congregation, and for some people at great expense to their own personal lives just to make sure their pastors fat and happy.
For some of us, it's our ONLY full-time job. It took me two years after moving into this town to find a church with fair pay. If I ever have to go through the search again, and have some of those condescending statements made to me again, ESPECIALLY in some of the local mega-churches, I'm using all of these points. The best part of the church I play in, is the other musicians are also top notch, professional, and are still very Christian in their day-to-day activities. Pay your musicians!
I never knew thought about anyone else than the pastor getting paid for ministering. Now that I saw this video it makes sense. I've been singing for years and I am learning to play instruments now. I have never heard of a church in my country where musicians are paid, salaries are given to the clergy only. I am looking for a full time job at this moment and even thought about leaving the ministry to prepare and focus on my job search. Our music is usually ok and at times very bad because we don't have enough time to prepare. It is true that if we could do it full time we would be way better. Anyways I love music and I am happy to serve the lord with it. I trust that he will provide a way to earn what I need while having enough free time to work on my own and give better quality music.
@@mahmeezthree2939 Lol. As if my job isn't real. Don't talk down about someone's profession if you're so great. Maybe don't depend on your "real" job to make a living, either. I have "real" benefits from my union jobs, I pay into benefits from my non-union gigs, and in my at-will state, there's barely any state regulation, anyway.
Musicians please do your music where it pleases you..... serve God with your talents too just like a pastor who is a practicing doctor. Don't depend on church pay because this debate won't end anytime soon
Amen bro.... I am a church musician and the Pastors are not the only personsI treading the corn in the Ministry. I had to buy my own instruments, pay for music school and when i use my talent to help support the Ministry you have a problem blessing me???? that devil is a lier..
+HUMBLEMUSICIAN Andy Carpenter, Electricians and others who volunteer their time, energy and services have also purchased their own tools and paid for training. If our pipes break, then the plumber simply uses his tools and expertise and fixes it for the church. He doesn't ask for or expect monetary compensation in return. Why should musicians receive when others do not?
+BDP Mathew 10:13, and we all, musicians and nonmusicians alike are missing the point. ITS ABOUT WHAT GOD WANTS NOT WHAT WE WANT! If we seek to please him with all our heart, we'll do the right thing and God will take care of the rest. Ive played in a church where I received 150 for playing and I've played in a church where I received nothing, but because money wasn't my motivation, my family has never missed a meal, and I've always had a good paying job for my area.
+derrick beene You have the "right spirit", which is why you are blessed! Unlike many musicians you were still willing to play even if you were not given monetary compensation. The entire body of Christ would be a lot better off with musicians like you! May God continue to bless you and Yours!
I played in the church worship teams for 25 years. I never got paid, and I didn’t expect to be paid. However, biblically the Bible says in several places, that a laborer is worth his hire. So, in hindsight, if a church wants quality musicians, that will be dedicated to their craft, rewarding them with pay would be a beautiful gesture. It wouldn’t have to be much but, it would be a nice way to say, we appreciate you.
Thank you so much for preaching this - the Holy Ghost is just rolling through you - we have to give God our best and many churches trying to get a fatter bottom line use untrained musicians with no theoretical background to lead their churches' music programs- Musicians are some of the most highly trained professionals on the face of the earth - some of them have masters degrees in performance and have serious God-given talents - preach this brother preach this
So now I only PLAY at my local church 2 Sunday a month when I use to handle it every Sunday of the month....! I realize I need to work and keep roof and food on the table and the church folks can't see the BIG PICTURE, but have the nerve to say we need music for praise team, choir, solo singer, backing up the preacher, even to the point of having the go visit other churches and perform. The list can continue on and on but yet nobody can see that it cost to travel to church for rehearsals etc!
I played for my church for years never thought about taking a dollar nor did I know musicians were getting paid it blew my mind when I found out and dudes were treating sundays and I quote as gigs smh
Boy boy boy I felt that man this is just what I have been looking for. I am a young musician but I am very talented and it seems like every church I go to they all like for me to labor and to have me to take out my time and play for them but don't want to pay me and if they do every musician should know that they are going to try you with 50 dollars.
I don't want to get paid. I already consider my privilege to serve as God's gift because I have an avenue to express and overflow His love to the congregation. Being connected to God is already heaven to me. We get paid in our community but I would rather pay just to be able to do what I do and just serve God.
It alway the people who sit on there butts and enjoy our labor and hard work that think we shouldn't get paid what would Sunday be like if no musicians show up or minister's of music , praise leaders across the world just stayed home and blessed a god at their first ministry there home or marriage just a thought
vstokes1985 As a musician myself, I find that many a time, the songs that I either sing or play are just as much of an act of worship, if not more, as me praying. You would have to be a musician to understand that music is both a talent and a gift used many times as a ministry. It is used as a form of worship not only for the congregation but for the musicians themselves. This is key. Music is just as vital a component as prayer because many a song is a prayer put to music! Look at the Psalms of David. Singing is a talent. Preaching is a talent. Being a good church organizer or administrator is a talent. They are gifts that people cultivate and collectively, they are used in worship. So the same can be said of the preacher, or the singers, or anyone else. Music helps to usher in the spirit of the Lord, set the atmosphere for worship, provide another platform for praise and worship in addition to testimony and other non-musical praise, and gives an opportunity for everyone to engage in collective praise/worship through song (because music IS some people's ministry). It's so much more than just people playing instruments. Music is truly how many people express their love, joy, and gratitude to Christ. Whereas some pray silently, others meditate, and yet others shout or dance, they are all outlets to praise and worship. Music is such a wonderful part of the service because as other people are sharing their cultivated gifts and talents and expressing their own praise/worship, all those watching or participating are likewise blessed. Having said all this, I am in full support of paying musicians because of the time invested to become highly competent, play by ear, read music, play a dozen plus songs in a church service, spend 2-3 hours rehearsing with the choirs/praise team (which does not include the 3-5 hours on average of learning weekly material, lugging equipment, changing the key of the music (especially at the last minute), and generally being expected to do anything at little to no notice. The time they spend practicing, along with their skill is an investment in quality, Christian music. It should never be taken for granted.
I agree. I am a professional singer and I make sure my musicians are paid because I understand the labor involved. A church without musicians is a Bible Study. We all know how many people attend those...or Sunday School. It's the ANOINTING in the music that draws. Numbers 18 and 1st Chronicles 25 clearly defines that musicians and singers ARE to be provided for. A dollar bill is a piece of paper that shows you spent your life (time) somewhere. It is traded...time for time.
+dyphicult It would be (like it was) with Jesus and his Apostles who had ho musicians with them! This means it would be perfectly fine! What some people want and what some people need are not necessarily the same thing. In other words, wanting music does not mean that one needs music!
what makes you think there were no musicians then? Just because Hollywood filmed it like that??? Ya might wanna read the Bible....because they were ALWAYS there...and they got compensated well in those days....read Numbers 18 and 1st Chronicles 25...and Nehemiah 13. Blessings
Yo I don't like this fighting in some of these comments. For the most part it's been intelligent conversation, but to those who are trippin a little bit: Let's make sure love is at the top of our to do lists. We're all in this to glorify God over all, let's be brothers and sisters as God would want!
You know, I find it odd that any time a light is shone (shined) on "errors in OUR ways" - - when "we like 🐑 have gone astra-a-a-a-a-a-y" from what GOD has clearly stated we are to do, there's always someone who will pull out the "We need to be loving to each other" card. The comments get "rough & raw" because people don't like to be corrected OFF of a path THEY have chosen. People don't want to be told they are NOT going to get their way. GOD said, as this pastor has said, ALL the people "on the platform" & the gatekeepers are to be paid (a living wage) from the tithes of the Church. Since THIS is the will of God, you're right, there shouldn't be any argument/angry responses - - but just telling people not to argue is NOT A SOLUTION that addresses the issue.
No, they should not be paid. Only the Pastor or church minister is supposed to be paid. The rest, tell them to get a job or start business. They should sing and/play the instruments for the Lord.
@@pililani_blessings I've seen you post this ridiculous comment on multiple videos on this topic and I sincerely hope you're not in a leadership position of any church with this mindset. This pastor clearly outlined what the Word of God says on the matter. Did you even watch the video?
@@GatorTex Its ridiculous to those who think the gospel is for sale. Earning a living through God's calling or gifts is sin before God with the exception of the Shepherds. Seek clarification from God through prayer and fasting before its too late. Currently they are thousands of Christians in hell for this mistake of charging for the gifts of God like singing in the church/playing the musical instruments. Solution They need to get a job or start a business to a earn a living. . 1 Corinthians 2:14-15 New King James Version 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
@@pililani_blessings It’s ridiculous to think you don’t have a right to earn a living according to the Apostle Paul himself in 1 Corinthians 9. Again, I sincerely hope you’re not in a leadership position with this woeful mindset.
I'm so glad I was able to hear this! It is definitely speaking to my current situation right now. I'm dealing with a pastor who doesn't like to say no when people ask him to speak; so I'm left having to be at all these outside engagements and not get compensated for them. And in so many words he told me I needed to get a job because the church can't afford to pay me what I desire. BUT....the church can afford to use me for all these services. Thank you for posting this!!
AMEN BROTHA!! There is, however, an inverse to that. I am a full time musician myself, and I had to come to realize that being paid was not my entitlement. Being paid comes after you are committed to your craft for a certain amount of time, and u offer EXCELLENCE to God. All through Chronicles, particularly chapters 15 & 25 paint the picture. If your goal is money, then this ministry is not for you. Just sayin.
There are two different kinds of musicians in churches. Professionals (those who do it for a living), and those who do it on the side as a hobby. At my church, we have both. The church compensates the core professionals in the ministry because they respect the fact that this is how we make our living. Some of the other musicians make their living and are professionals in other fields besides music. They can afford to serve at church for no compensation.
Starting at 3:30 said it all. Church musicians go to school, work jobs and have families and STILL show up for practices (that aren't short). The congregation sees them on stage for a Sunday morning but don't see all the hours put in prior to the service that morning.
I have played guitar for about forty five years I always felt like it was an honor to play for my Jesus I could not I would not take money for playing for him that's how I feel about that after all the things he has done for me I will gladly play my guitar
Guitarist as well usually the last instrument added and the first critiqued. Pianos, drums and organs are provided but we provide our own instruments and are the least paid Wake up you deserve better.
Thank you.Every Church and Synagogue Congregation needs to hear this message. Church Musicians are Pastors who do a parallel and equal job as the Senior Pastor/Teacher/Preacher/Minister of the Congregation if they,the Musicians,are committed and faithful to God. Church Musicians proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ and teach and nurture Christ's Body,The Church. To do the job well requires many years of study and practice and exams.The cost of University/Conservatorum of Music training is very high as is the time and cost of musical instruments,printed music and travelling and accommodation as well as the need to keep up practising,rehearsal,education,choosing and learning new music.The responsibility and demands of the job are equal to the Church Minister/Pastor/Teacher. In the Biblical Israel, only Priests were allowed to be the Musicians in the Worship and Praise Services. Musicians today use their work time to prepare the church music program when they could be in higher paid jobs elsewhere. Musicians have to eat,pay for house,water,electricity,council rates,government taxes,superannuation,hospital and medical and old age pension and travelling costs. Musicians also provide for family,children,parents and others in need. Jesus said,"the worker is worthy of his wage". The Apostle Paul said "those who proclaim the Gospel" are entitled to make their living out of it and be paid. The Reverend Doctor Billy Graham,the famous and highly loved Evangelist to the world,insisted that his Musicians be paid. Musicians should be paid.
***** A musician who does the job faithfully does feed the sheep.That's what King David did.He was a shepherd boy before becoming King of Israel.He was also a very skilled Harp player who could heal people and he was skilled at having insight as to people's needs and God chose him.
***** David was both. God alone decides how big our job is.I have a priestly office which pastors/shepherds people and so do other musicians. I recommend you study the whole of the Bible in fine detail,my friend.
***** Musicians preach the gospel.Actions speak louder than words.The proof of your faith is in the good works you do.Faith without works is dead.J.S.Bach has been preaching the gospel long before Billy Graham was born.
It should always be done for the love of the work and know that yes, God does reward you, but instruments are not free. The education needed to learn your instrument is not free. It's true what he said, that people have full-time jobs and families and the church requires your "extra time." I don't see how that is giving the best. An hour at rehearsal is an hour spent that you will never get back, an hour you will never give your family. Why do people get so spiritual about blessing the man of G
A lot of what was he was saying really struck me . I understand what he was saying but not all churches can not afford to pay their musicians or who serve. We would like to bless those who serve but we have to pay for the necessities for ministry. Many churches cannot afford salaries for them and if you can thats great but we have to keep ministry our number one priority. You may have to end up serving without a paycheck but you are suppose to serve no matter what so that God will bless you.
I've been a musician for the Lord for years, and never got paid, nor want it to.Back in the world I did it for money, but now that I'm saved, I played for the Lord with great joy and with all of my heart, and I would never accept money or pay from any church. Prison ministry, revivals, etc, did it all with gratitude for my Lord Christ Jesus. He deserves that and more, for all of His blessings and love toward us, and specially for His Grace. Is a true privilege, Glory be to God in Christs name.
The workman is worthy of his wages. Period. Did you hear what the preacher says about 2 minutes in? Check out 5 or 6 minutes in also. Nothing wrong with volunteering to go street ministry and hospital/prison ministry, but leading corporate worship means you get paid. Levites were priests, MUSICIANS, and door keepers. The tithing supported them all!
Only part-time musicians who are not struggling with money ever say "I have never been paid, and never wanted to be." What a terrible thing to try to plant in the minds of musicians who were giving their ALL in time, effort, study, practice, research and more (organizing others, teaching, calibrating equipment, recording, shopping for upgrades, etc.) to make the corporate worship the _best it can be_ !!!!
Our motive should NOT be money. However, this video addresses the responsibility of the church body to it's servants, not the attitude of the servant to the church body.
I play for 3-4 churches per week (including my home church) just to barely survive. It's extremely exhausting & hard to commit. Memorizing multiple set lists of songs & keys they sing in per week is a crazy life. I haven't been on a vacation in years because missing a Sunday/Saturday is like missing a weeks worth of work..smh
Thanks for sharing this on behalf of a whole lot of musicians and people that work in church. People don't like to understand why musicians leave church and play for more financially beneficial gigs and artists. Church is one of the BEST place to be GOTTEN OVER on for your gift or talent. It's a shame, but hopefully one day the church will wake up and appreciate what they have. It's not all about money, but a pat on a shoulder does not take care of life's expenses. Be Blessed, Dre'
1) I do believe that any/all musicians should be paid. BUT!!! You just cant put anyone up in the altar. You will know them by their fruits as individuals and as A CHURCH. Truly understand the purpose of a church, then you know that there is plenty of things that should be going on before debating about how much "I" should get paid. Better to give then to receive my friend. Read verses: James 1:27, 1 Timothy 5:3, Galatians 2:10, James 2:2-6, 1 John 3:17-18. Church is not a building, is you.
Levites are musicians and singers. The Levites receiving pay for what they do, and the amount of time they spend is their rightful portion. Biblically the Levites should be taken care of so that they in turn can provide for their family. Those that do not understand that should Research all necessary chapters in the Bible concerning Levites.
@Exit the new covenant doesn't take away the practicality of tithing. The crops and livestock were their means of trade. We no longer trade crops. We use currency. Also, the purpose of the tithe is so that the church can function. People like to say tithing isn't necessary but will be the first ones complaining when the air, heat or lights aren't working. Also, for the ones that are against musicians getting paid, don't complain when they play other places to make income. Even though we enjoy playing, it's still our craft in which we make money to put a roof over our head and food on our table. If you are going to require me to render my services two or three nights a week and then all day Sunday, yes you have to compensate me. Just like, no professional electricians or carpenters are going to come change light fixtures and carpet for free.
All I have to say, is I pray you read the BIBLE when you open it... cause you speaking is what someone preached to you and not what the bible say...... I will give you just a few out of hundreds of Scriptures that show us they used silver and gold for money to trade and buy or pay debt for what ever the cause..... STARTING IN GENESIS!! this is to hope you read the bible and not sermons..... Genesis 23:15 My lord, hearken unto me: the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver; what is that betwixt me and thee? bury therefore thy dead. Genesis 23:16 And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron; and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current money with the merchant. >>>>> CURRENT MONEY>>>>>>
Genesis 41:57 And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands.............. Genesis 42:2 And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence; that we may live, and not die. if they had FOOD TO TRADE, for food in a famine..... does that make since to you.. they would not had to travel so far if they had food. they went to buy food. Deuteronomy 2:6 Ye shall buy meat of them for money, that ye may eat; and ye shall also buy water of them for money, that ye may drink. and we know they had money in Jesus' day, cause they spoke of who image was on it... but what was the tithe of the priest? oils, mint, spices and so on... not once did the Bible say the priest gave money to the temple or anyone for that matter...... THEY GAVE TO THE POOR, over and over again in the NT.... even Christ said when we give to the poor we do unto him.... it's called a tithe to preachers... therefore evangelist, teacher, deacons, everyone who do service to God should receive from the collected money..... because a pastor is not put in a place where they supposed to be treated greater than anyone else.
then anyone who do the ministry of God should receive a tithe. we are all priest unto God, to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ... if a "church" want to collect money say they can meet in a building that has heat, toilets and so on....then do that, but dont lie to the people and say God said they have to..... these buildings are not the House of the Living God... and anyone who calls them so is in idolatry because God said his House will NOT be built with man's hands... we his children is God's church and I would wonder what god they are worshiping when everything they do and teach is not The Word of God.,,,,,,,,, please put down those sermon when you pick up the Word of God... or else you will never see nothing but what was told to you.....
Please read Galatians chapter 3, we are not under the law of tithe, the law ended when Jesus Died, and rose again, and where grace began, we are under grace, and not the law, the church doesn't operate in tithing, but in giving, 2nd Corinthians 6:6-8 declares But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:, tithing was strictly for the levitical priesthood/the levite's, widow's, and orphan's also, the levite's were set apart to minister unto the LORD, and the tithe was collected from the tribes of Israel so that the levite's would have what they needed for themselves, Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation....this tithe was not a picture for us to continue in today, they didn't tithe every week? Deuteronomy 26:12 declares When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the ((third year, which is the year of tithing,)) and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled...so where does the weekly come from according to this scripture if we're going to mimic what they done back then?
kp, you MUST be a musician becuz your words ring so true. After 8 years of formal non-gospel lessons, a 10 year hiatus, and 4 years of self teaching in gospel I'm just now understanding where I need to be lol. It takes YEARS to be DECENT at it. Most people have no clue the effort, time and sacrifice we musicians make week in and week out. In most cases, the compensation we do get doesn't equal out, but many realize it's a ministry first and we have a passion to play and perfect our craft.
@@shyane6309 pastors should not be paid! Simple. No one should be paid then, if you are advertising your program on the radio, TV, magazine, you must not pay who is offering the service, if you are fixing the electricity in the church, the electrician must not be paid, if you are fixing the air conditioning the technician must not be paid since it's for God! You people comment not know what you saying at all, when it comes to musicians that's when you set unreasonable and unrealistic standards! One more, if you need musical equipments in church you must get it for free because it's for the Lord! Get out of here. Bible stated the groups 9f people entitled to the tithes of the church the poor, the Levites ( those who work in the church) strangers, widows and the fatherless. Read your Bible!
This is the reason why it's easy to get a blossoming musician at the start of his journey but as soon as his worth is recognized by someone or some place else he's gone
You know, I've been playing for free all my life and I'm the type of person that doesn't even think of asking because of my love for God, but this kind of opened my eyes a bit. I do agree that they should get paid, however much it is, and that churches should not have a problem if they have another job just to make an honest living.
Nice the hear this I’m one of those worship leaders that don’t get paid and I do two services a week sometimes 3 after working and commuting which makes a 12 hour day. I’m told that my church will never pay anything to it’s musicians even though we pay for equipment, lessons, music , spend our “free” time practicing and I do the programming of the Sunday set, rehearse the band, deal with peoples personal problems and habits. I try to give my best and get the other worship team members to do the same and it can get overwhelming sometimes. I know Hod will bless us in a special way if we do this out of love for him but it would sure be nice to have the church by us an instrument or some lessons to help us give our best. I tell you one thing, when I was playing secular music, we got paid and appreciated.
So this guy is running back to the OLD COVENANT for a basis to say that musicians should be paid from the TITHE? Well -- according to THE LAW of Moses, tithes were always CROPS and ANIMALS from within the borders of Israel. Even though the children of Israel had LOTS of money, God never ever told them to tithe MONEY. I repeat, according to THE LAW of Moses, tithes were always CROPS and ANIMALS. God commanded the tithe from what HE CREATED, not from what man created (money). Not everyone was required to tithe under the Law of Moses. Only FARMERS and SHEPHERDS who had crops and animals were required to tithe. The poor, widows, orphans and strangers were EXEMPT from tithing -- they RECEIVED tithes (as a form of charity) from the tithers. Only the TRIBE OF LEVI were allowed to collect the tithes. NO ONE ELSE was allowed to collect the tithes. According to the Law of Moses, tithers gave 3 separate tithes (The Levitical Tithe, The Poor Tithe, and The Festival Tithe). They did not tithe on Sabbath Years, because the land had to rest. To my knowledge, no one is obeying this today. According to Hebrews 8:13, the tithing laws are no longer in effect, because God rendered the Old Covenant obsolete and instituted a NEW COVENANT. The Levitical priesthood is GONE. The Old Covenant storehouses are GONE. NO ONE is tithing what GOD said to tithe (crops and animals from the land of Israel). To ask the question "should church musicians be paid from the tithe" IGNORES what the tithing laws teach. It IGNORES that the apostles taught freewill offerings and grace-giving in the New Covenant. Many of these church musicians aren't even saved in the first place, and the music is used to entertain and stroke the emotions of the congregation.
Greetings, i am with you on this, new covenant giving is: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, regular and motivated by love for God, fellow Christians and lost souls.However, take off tithe form the picture and you would see the pastor has a point. I am of the opinion that money given to church should be accounted for. I also think some of that money should be used to keep & train christian musicians who can bring down God's glory. The church uses unsaved musician because they are trained and devoted to their thing, funny enough they get paid when they come to play for churches. On the other hand christian musicians are under trained and laden with the burden of feeding families, even when they make time to play no one really cares. Who will train or musicians for us? We need to as a body address the issue of tithe and what our giving goes for. We need not undermine the power of true worship and praise by cutting it off !
Exit Churchianity You are right about tithes! They are using the lie of Replacement Theology if they go to the old testament to back up giving to the church. That being said. To pay a little bit to the musicians that take time away from their families just so Sister Complain and Brother Moan can have a good band would be nice. They preach 10% so they can guarantee a steady income instead of trusting God. But, you must do His will to be blessed. Some don't want to do his will. They just want that check!
I appreciate this message. I'm in transition. And YAH our father is opening up doors outside of where I am a member where they don't pay musicians. But you reap what you sow and, I've sown into them. Why would YAH our Father not have me reap a harvest.
Can anyone provide a BIBLE VERSE, not opinion, or denominational dogma, or tradition that shows the Tithe was money? We hear tithe tithe tithe all the time, and I would go out on a limb and say if anyone is using MONEY as tithe, BIBICALLY, you are not tithing, and are in fact disobedient to what God required as tithes....you can't substitute what you want to use as "tithe" and say you are doing it....sorry.......If God asked you for a yellow towel and you gave Him a red one, you are disobedient to His request....so is everyone who thinks they are Tithing using money......of course I'm not going to site any references, that's for you to study to show yourself approved unto God.....Furthermore, once you find where any New Testament church "TITHED" let me know.....
In the old days people used animals such as lambs or fruits as sacrifices. Today is different. How will the church bills get paid? I like to see you offer the light company a donkey as payment. Preaching the gospel is not cheap.
Andrea Steen Alabama Power or Alagasco aren't regulated by God's order, but the church is correct? If so, then we should "do it like the bible says" as we so have been taught. Not one scripture in the WHOLE BIBLE will indicate anyone using money for tithes. Abraham had shekels or gold and silver...that's money...Joseph was sold for shekels of silver, so the monetary system was in place wayyyyyyyyyy before the law of the tithe was given to the children of Israel. So my question again is if there was money before the law of tithes, and money during the law of tithes, why didn't God require that they give money? I guess I missed the scripture where God changed it from consumable goods to money...maybe you can give me the scripture. Don't assume that because many don't "tithe" they don't give. Giving and "tithing" are two separate things. I still give, I just can't give MONEY as a biblical tithe and be obedient to what is outlined in the bible. I am still amazed after all these years that even if there isn't any biblical proof people will still do, and have the nerve, not attacking you personally, to speak against someone who doesn't give money as tithe, and they have scripture to support their position.....
revolutonradioshow! You asked if anyone could show you in the Word that tithes were money! If you read and research the 14 chapter of Genesis, you wil find that the term "goods" imply gold, silver, fine linen, etc. 11 And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way. 16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. 20 And he gave him tithes of all. A despotic king name Chedorlaomer had previously conquered six nations of giants. He took the spoil of their land with him to fight the five kings, which included Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom owed back tribute payments, but refused to pay them. When Abram defeated these four kings he met the king of Salem (Melchizedek). The bible plainly states that he gave him tithes of ALL. In the all was the currency of these nations. There is the answer to your question. The tithes that were given were currency as well as food or victuals. Another resource of information is in the book of Job. The bible explains the wealth of Job, but calls it SUBSTANCE. When the bible list the inventory of Job's portfolio, it is primarily animals. Animals were currency in the economical system of that era. Job1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. An animal had a plethora of uses in those days and times. Animals were not just food, but currency!
I believe we all have a choice to make regardless of anyone's activity. Just because someone decides to wrong us... we cannot justify a wrong action on our part. The choice to do/play or not is up to the individual. Control what you can and let God handle what you can't. I think this debate is interesting because I've seen it from both sides and most people think it's really about money... but it's really about the state of people's hearts.
I just went through a huge break up with my church due to the church refusing to pay for my service. I worked for a year with no pay, then they gave a love offering and took it back, then paid for 2 Sundays when there are 4 to 5 Sundays in a month. To top it off I was told to just come and sit on the pew if I didn't like it. I stood up taller then every and left. Was hired at another church the next week with pay. Pay your musicians. Especially ones that provide the instruments and quality music
REAL MAN OF GOD... GOD BLESS SSSSSSSSS YOU... FROM GHANA ... please come here and tell our african pastors... gospel musicians in ghana are suffering to hell...
Doing music seriously for a living, there has to be a financial provision with anything you do including church as with any other profession ,that’s just good business.
Let us remember the laborer is worthy of his hire i am a Pastor @a PHD Musician and i agree musicians need to be paid because they render service to the Lord@churches lets be honest the churches that want to be cheap the music structure is not all that i been playing for 32 years i have seen the highs and lows of salaries to the churches that want to be cheap you get what u pay for
Thank God for such an awesome perspective. The relationship between the church and the musician needs heeling for sure and I believe it is on the way! Amen!!
He is preaching the truth!!! The worship prepares the heart for the word.... It goes hand and hand! One isn't better, stronger, nor more important than the other! They both are important to the Lord because He wants to prepare your heart with music, and encourage you/speak to you through the word. You can't have one without the other. Great word doc!
+Dr. Arthur D. Kemp He has left out critical information about the nature of the office. He leads one to believe that these individuals were compensated because of their musical talent. This is not so. they were compensated because they were Priest. Some of the priest just happened to be able to create music or provide security. Again, their compensation was due to their position as priest, not extracurricular activities.
+BDP And these are the singers, chief of the fathers of the Levites, who remaining in the chambers were free: for they were employed in that work day and night. 1 Chronicles 9:33
I read the verse that you posted here. But do you have literature to support this concept of payment for being in the office of Priest rather than as a musician BDP? I would be interested in reading something (historical information) if you can point me in that direction. That would be helpful to read. The reason is - following that line of thinking to today - since all saints of the Most High are Kingdom Priests - then all church labors could be compensated for their services (which some churches seem to come close to doing). Thanks very much!!! I would appreciate that.
Nehemiah did not say the Levites were also singers in chapter 13. He said the Levites and singers. And everyone is STILL missing the point. If we seek to please God and not ourselves, this won't even be an issue because the Holy Spirit will guide us.
The church should definitely seek to employ the workers so that they can have their undivided attention. I am a musician and i tell if I could earn anything from playing in church, let alone what i get from playing with secular artists, i would certainly play exclusively for the betterment of the kingdom
The church is a for profit business, It should pay it’s musicians. It should pay it's taxes like every other business. Make no mistake, the church is a business.
Most church musicians aren’t good enough to be paid; many of the people who can’t cut it in the real world end up playing in church where the standards are lower. They should be higher.
wow, I got goose bumps listening to this preaching! The brother speaks from the word & is anointed. Within our "Protestant" beliefs there are many different doctrines that may at times cause some confusion, often leaving us second guessing the VOICE of true leadership. But Jesus spoke of our Father's kingdom, never once mentioning a division amongst it. So let our listening of the Word be guided by the Spirit.
Amen Brother! I could write a lot here of things I’ve seen over the years that we’re just so painful. A professional musician many years before Christ . Read write arrange for any instrument lead worship teams from acoustic. Still play and minister nationally and internationally. So I’m not a novice writing here. Read and RE -read these scriptures on tithing giving sharing etc many times over the last 33 years. I’m thankful - very thankful this man of God is preaching this word at this time. And to all my fellow musicians who have given of their time talent treasure family time job time etc,. May the Lord who sees (El) and the God who provides Jehovah-jireh richly Bless you and your families. May He open His good treasure to you and may you come in to your Devine destinies using your awesome God-given gifts and be happy in the Lord All your days. Sincerely, -M
Church musicians should be paid if you employ them at your church. If you value having a church musician paid that musician. From the tithes, from the offerings, from a sponsor, from wherever you deem it necessary, pay your church musicians... I am a church musician. I worked for the state, and I play with a band. I GOT PAID! Good musicians get paid with no problem. I have never had a problem getting my check after service. My gift, of which I have honed, makes room for me. Don't be cheap!
I absolutely agree. Me being the only musician in my church playing everything is hard work. Plus I play for 3 other churches. But being a bass player at heart has it's times where I don't care if I get paid. I just love doing it because it's what God has blessed me with. But I have to have some money that will get me back home. There are several churches that place religion in front of the church. Certain people have no money or some money, so they believe in saving money for things. And then it carries into church to where someone doesn't want to pay you for playing. So sometimes religion has to do with it by majority. Me being in North Carolina, honestly, no one will really pay you at all. So I adapt around it sometimes. But I love music and I have goals to do something even bigger each day with it. So my labor has to pay off. I want everyone else to understand my goals. But every good musician doesn't expect money to be put in their hands. Not every church is rich or has a good amount I money. If God blessed you with a talent, he'll bless you for using it to minister through music.
Every SDA Churches need to hear this Sermon. Every denomination seem to recognize the importance of a good salary for their Ministers of Music, except the SDA Churches. A musician will run themselves to the ground with work for the SDA church, most SDA churches will drop a couple of hundred bucks in their pockets and act like that's a full time salary. Well said Preacher!!!
tithe is not JUST money. Read the context (which cuts both ways). The only greens that people produce today are money. People tithed from their increase. There is nothing wrong with linking tithes to money. Good point, somebody cook dinner every week specifically for their church ministry staff, that might suffice if money is a problem!
Since I gave my life to the Lord, I demanded that whatever money I’m to receive playing the drums, to put it in offering or my tithes. Church is one day a week. I’d be worried more about getting paid the other 6 days. Point is, i made myself a living sacrifice and whatever he need me to do, I’m a do for free. You see what happened to Elijah’s servant!!
How many churches and ministry leaders are taken advantage of and leave the ministry hurt, worn out, and their families struggling? Should those who serve us through faith live with such uncertainty? What other occupation is expected to tolerate this?
I am a perfect example of this message. I've studied, have the qualifications and experience. I volunteer at a Spanish ministry of a church of about 1000. Only have taken 3 Sundays off in almost 2 years. I play every instrument professionally and write for any instrument, style, anytime. I know God has sustained me & my family thus far. But that message is for me. I should be looking elsewhere. Although I know God acknowledges, still the factor of being compensated is a necessity. What ya think?
@Tokyobrwn......I mentioned the Black Church only because that's what I know. I don't know how the other cultural churches operate. I do agree with you at the same time though. 2 Chronicles 5-13 talks about the Singers and Musicians coming together AS ONE VOICE and when that happen,the glory of God filled the house so much that the priests could not minister.....but to get that,you have to have skillful Musicians to rehears,play and direct and that's a Job.
I'm a drummer and Guitarist-singer one that has decided 90 % of my time learning new music having rehearsal I play music for the lord every day to give God my very best every Sunday I can work full time because I'm dedicated to God I should be paid for that reason
I respect this man totally!!! He built his argument on sound biblical truth. You can fight against a man's word but you cant fight against the word of God!!! Well said pastor!
Doctors and nurses who works at the hospitals are doing it because its their job and its their work. But if they extend their profession inside the church like doing medical mission or any help inside the church, they call it service. Medical field can also be a spiritual gift. Musicians who plays outside the church is considered a job or work but when they play inside the church its called service. Playing instruments either it's acquired or its a talent if you used it inside the church its a spiritual gift. when i play on different churches Like Catholic church, pentecostal, Baptist and ETC. they pay me and its like a job/work when i play to them. But when i play inside my church i play for free its my service. So it depends upon the musician if he wants to be a fulltime gospel musician as a job then he should be paid. But some musicians do it for service. i respect all musicians coz we have all different personalities, perspective and goals. God bless us all.🙏✌🏽
@MrRobertresto I totally agree with you MrRobertresto, and God bless you and your music. my opinion is Biblical and correct, but don't forget to do it with all of your heart, and take it as a blessing and a priviledge, cause the Lord does not have a need for us, we, need the Lord. and thank Him for His blessings and health, specially salvation and grace. Blessings to all Musicians.
Some people speak out of ignorance. 2 Timothy 2:15 say a to study to show thyself approval unto God, a workman need not to be ashamed but rightly dividing the word of truth. I've read a lot of the comments and some of them are people who hasn't really studied their word. I believe in every word of the Bible. " even tithing " Someone stated, oh that's a Old Testament law. Well Jesus said I did not come to destroy the law but I've come to fulfill the law. Not only that He also stated, render unto
I have played at my church for 19-20 years. It is a lot of work but I choose to do it for free. No I do not consider myself an elite piano player but if you start singing I can meet you there and hang on! But those that can get it get it you make a difference in the service and I respect that! Some guys come to the church with other choirs and I’m always in awe of their musical talents! If the church can afford to pay them and choose to by all means! But the smaller ones like ours cannot and so I donate my services!
1. It is up to the pastor of the particular church or organization and the vision God gives him or her on how to run the affairs of that house according to his or her understood interpretation and application of the word of God. 2. He or she must give an account or is held accountable to God, family, the congregation, the denomination/organization/affiliation, and the government for those affairs. 3. All sheep have their own decision concerning which field they decide to graze in and why.
i play organ and drums. if i don't get paid thats alright because i'm not really doin it for the money. i'm doing it because i love God and i take advantage of the gifts he has given me.
@tokyobrwn It's not even about money. It's about MAINTAINING. A person can't maintain their gift/talent without investing in it. Anyone that know a musician that's serious about their craft understands that they make sacrifices behind closed doors...it's called practice and preparation. It's the part that no one sees before they get on stage or before they play, sing or do whatever. Even if it comes natural, it takes maintenance. Just like a car will break down if you don't keep it tuned up.
I totally agree woth this as a musican myself we should get something we have to at one or two services not including if theres services through the week and rehearsal time and having to travel with the pastor its a lot to do its like a second job which means put of all that we take time off the jobs we do work which means we dont get paid for that time off. yes we should get something for what we do.
I'm a Pastor, I have worked in ministry and preaching since I was 16, now 32. I don't look to get paid from the church. I do what I do for the kingdom. God has always took care of me. Now if the church sew a seed into my life I would take it but I don't do it for the money. God looks at the heart of a man and is moved through that.
I whole heartedly agree, but who is to say how much the minister should make. Also if the church is like a store front or some what small, should the pastor come in there each service with a fresh suit. Driving a new Lexus each year. Along with the church paying all his bills.
Right. Some musicians get paid in the churches that can afford it. But those that can't cause the pastor only gets 2 dollars.... I guess they are screwed.
amen... you're right. Churches need to re-priortize the church budget. I hard a church testimony where during the early part of the recession challenged members to but in the offering basket if they had it and take money out if they didn't... Sounds radical, but offerings actually grew... near the end offerings were so much that they began giving money to families to bless other families in the community. If members feel like there the church is truly blessing them, giving is natural.
{a sigh of relief} This is soooo TRUE!!! It is very hard to work a full time job and then come into a rehearsal to play for a choir.....and in my case to teach a choir and direct them. But all eyes are on US when things go wrong!!! Its not fair!!! Thanks for this post!!!
Numbers 18 To directly address the question "Should Church Musicians Be Paid from the Tithe?" YES!!! The old testament DOES give precedent that the levites (i.e. ALL church workers) be paid and, further, that payment should come from the tithe. From the tithe received, the levites gave 10 percent to THE priest. Further, the priest received ALL the offerings. Here's the caveat Levites were NOT TO HAVE ANY OTHER INHERITANCE Their tribe was not even given land like the other tribes.
I so agree!!! This preacher is on point. Even if we don't require payment, you should at least show a person appreciation and realize they are human other than just a church musician.
I have a brother that on his ⛪ they ask him to play 4 this ministry and that ministry.he never ever gets a dime 4 ⛽ instruments etc.when we play outside I always pay him.he needs to wake up.i send him this video.he always says is unto the LORD and drives a old van with a old Roland 350 amp ???
So glad to see a Pastor who is not all about himself and willing to look out for his musicians. This is the first time I have seen a Pastor do this and it makes my heart glad. I wish churches locally would view this. I have been a church musician for 35 years and have never been done right.
I've played at my church for 10 years and have recieved less than $1000 in that 10 YEAR period. It hasn't bothered me up until last year when they denied my request to get paid $25 dollars for:
Playing MY keyboard
Teaching the Choir
Composing music
Buying supplies-music, ink, cds, paper, folders, paying other musician to play with me because I'm the only musician. (Hundreds of dollars from my own pocket)
Not to brag but did I mention I am in school for my doctorate in music? I think I'm worth at least $25 a week. :-(
I think I'm done being used.
don't let the money discourage you don't accept the money anymore
play your piano from the heart and see what the lord do for you stay strong
+Luke W Yeah man if you're not at least being reimbursed for your expenses I would bail.
It's plenty of churches that will pay you for that. I'd recommend praying for God to lead you to one!
That's sad bailing on Gods people for lack of money! We must trust God for the means of our survival and not the church! If they say no, it shouldn't bother you, that means that God has a plan! Trust God and not man is what i say!
Wow brother, that's tough
I say pay the musicians. It's a lot of work for them to be at rehearsal, practicing on their on, and then expected to be at every event. It's a lot. Pay them.
Yeah thank you 🙏🏼
It’s a job because the church treat us like it is a job they look at us funny if we’re late if we miss a service or engagement the question our loyalty they threaten to fire us they treat us like employees so we should get paid like employees not only that a lot of us musicians go to school for it in this profession just like anything else
Whoever liked my comment I would love to have a personal conversation with you because I’m so sick of this I’m playing for church right now during this pandemic and I’m not working I lost my job I’m only getting paid $50. And the church where are used to play yet in Virginia yes they paid me $788 monthly and I know some people are going to be like that’s a reasonable amount and to a certain degree it’s not that bad and I was grateful because that was the most I’ve ever gotten from a church however with that being said because the church was a big church it was not a make a church but it was a fairly large decent size church probably about 500 members it could seat. The church was busy we had five choirs each of the choirs had their own night for rehearsals and then on top of that we had two services on Sunday and whatever choir that was designated for that Sunday they sung both services so I had to be there Monday night Tuesday night Wednesday night Thursday night and Saturday mornings and also two services every Sunday 7:30 AM and 11 o’clock and the choir traveled a lot when I applied for secular jobs I did not get off the positions because my availability was very bad because it was not available because I was at the church. And if the Lord see fit that I was able to get the job in spite of my availability I got little to no hours
@@curtisdrummerellerbe9544 That's a problem. If the church wants to have consistent musicians then they should pay the musicians. Here's the deal, when an artist sells a painting, they are not getting paid for just the painting. They are getting paid for the painting AND the years of practice. Also, I can have a servant's heart and help park cars, clean up, or greet people at the church. But musicians are still practicing when they leave the church. So while others may be able to work OT on their jobs, go to school, or just hang out with their families...key musicians are probably using that time to practice. Either pay the musicians or don't complain if they can't commit.
@@williamsmith3331 right.
Do you know what EVERY person who has ever told me "you need to have a servants heart" have in common? EVERY last one of them was on the church payroll.
Mark Clark keep your head up man!
Exactly, take away their pay and let's see if they still have a servants heart.
I also refer to Matt. 15:8-9.
I agree. I also used that same exact passage with another, last night.
Hello mark this is 3 years later. THIS statemnt STILL is sooooo felt.thank u
@JeremyRice3 I totally feel you, I been playing in my church for over 8 years and never received a payment for playing. But the way you have to look at it is, your payment does not necessarily have to come from the the "Church's" bank account. What I'm trying to say is, keep your heart in the right place and God will provide no matter what. He has provided me with everything I need and more and I'm never out of work, he has never let me down and he will not let you down, God Bless
The thing is, most churches aren't looking at paying musicians in a scriptural type of way. The church wants it's musicians to participate for the passion of leading the church in worship, and only that. For some reason they think that if they pay musicians, we'll only be doing it for the money, which is completely backwards. When you pay your musicians, you can devote more time to the ministry. Your musicians can pay a babysitter so they can fit in an extra practice. You're musicians can use that money for the wife/husband and kids to go have a fun night so that they can make it to practice without feeling like they've dumped their family for the night. When you pay your musicians, you can expect more out of them... More excellence can be brought to the church... Things can get a lot better.
+Jake Smith - Say that!! #YouBetterPreach
that's so true
+Jake Smith Pls mate don't fool yourself... because in the Bible David wasn't paid to play the harp... if u think that you must be paid to play an Instrument in the house of the Lord you got to be out of your mind!!!
+Mr Richs don't fool yourself putting words in my mouth. I've never been paid to play at church and I've played every week for 8 years. We should be paid, but obviously ministry is more important so I'm fine playing for free.
+Jake Smith YOU BETTER!!! Becuase was Jesus paid to die for our sins???
First time of hearing a pastor preaching about musicians payment God bless u
Yes refreshing to see. I'm so used to pastors demanding that they get more money and even brag about how blessed they are. Even though the money that they are so blessed with originally came from the congregation, and for some people at great expense to their own personal lives just to make sure their pastors fat and happy.
Yeah it’s refreshing to hear someone that gets it.
For some of us, it's our ONLY full-time job. It took me two years after moving into this town to find a church with fair pay. If I ever have to go through the search again, and have some of those condescending statements made to me again, ESPECIALLY in some of the local mega-churches, I'm using all of these points.
The best part of the church I play in, is the other musicians are also top notch, professional, and are still very Christian in their day-to-day activities. Pay your musicians!
I've always had a REAL JOB WILL REAL BENEFITS, STATE REGULATED LAWS, ETC. DONT DEOEND ON NO CHURCH TO MAKE A LIVING.
I never knew thought about anyone else than the pastor getting paid for ministering. Now that I saw this video it makes sense. I've been singing for years and I am learning to play instruments now. I have never heard of a church in my country where musicians are paid, salaries are given to the clergy only. I am looking for a full time job at this moment and even thought about leaving the ministry to prepare and focus on my job search. Our music is usually ok and at times very bad because we don't have enough time to prepare. It is true that if we could do it full time we would be way better.
Anyways I love music and I am happy to serve the lord with it. I trust that he will provide a way to earn what I need while having enough free time to work on my own and give better quality music.
@@mahmeezthree2939 Lol. As if my job isn't real. Don't talk down about someone's profession if you're so great. Maybe don't depend on your "real" job to make a living, either. I have "real" benefits from my union jobs, I pay into benefits from my non-union gigs, and in my at-will state, there's barely any state regulation, anyway.
Musicians please do your music where it pleases you..... serve God with your talents too just like a pastor who is a practicing doctor. Don't depend on church pay because this debate won't end anytime soon
Amen bro.... I am a church musician and the Pastors are not the only personsI treading the corn in the Ministry. I had to buy my own instruments, pay for music school and when i use my talent to help support the Ministry you have a problem blessing me???? that devil is a lier..
HUMBLEMUSICIAN Andy " A Very Important Issue That Determines The Growth Level of Most Ministries "....!
+HUMBLEMUSICIAN Andy Carpenter, Electricians and others who volunteer their time, energy and services have also purchased their own tools and paid for training. If our pipes break, then the plumber simply uses his tools and expertise and fixes it for the church. He doesn't ask for or expect monetary compensation in return. Why should musicians receive when others do not?
+BDP Mathew 10:13, and we all, musicians and nonmusicians alike are missing the point. ITS ABOUT WHAT GOD WANTS NOT WHAT WE WANT! If we seek to please him with all our heart, we'll do the right thing and God will take care of the rest. Ive played in a church where I received 150 for playing and I've played in a church where I received nothing, but because money wasn't my motivation, my family has never missed a meal, and I've always had a good paying job for my area.
+derrick beene You have the "right spirit", which is why you are blessed! Unlike many musicians you were still willing to play even if you were not given monetary compensation. The entire body of Christ would be a lot better off with musicians like you! May God continue to bless you and Yours!
Thanks Brother
I played in the church worship teams for 25 years. I never got paid, and I didn’t expect to be paid. However, biblically the Bible says in several places, that a laborer is worth his hire. So, in hindsight, if a church wants quality musicians, that will be dedicated to their craft, rewarding them with pay would be a beautiful gesture. It wouldn’t have to be much but, it would be a nice way to say, we appreciate you.
Thank you so much for preaching this - the Holy Ghost is just rolling through you - we have to give God our best and many churches trying to get a fatter bottom line use untrained musicians with no theoretical background to lead their churches' music programs- Musicians are some of the most highly trained professionals on the face of the earth - some of them have masters degrees in performance and have serious God-given talents - preach this brother preach this
So now I only PLAY at my local church 2 Sunday a month when I use to handle it every Sunday of the month....! I realize I need to work and keep roof and food on the table and the church folks can't see the BIG PICTURE, but have the nerve to say we need music for praise team, choir, solo singer, backing up the preacher, even to the point of having the go visit other churches and perform. The list can continue on and on but yet nobody can see that it cost to travel to church for rehearsals etc!
Finally someone articulating what should be an obvious truth...
I played for my church for years never thought about taking a dollar nor did I know musicians were getting paid it blew my mind when I found out and dudes were treating sundays and I quote as gigs smh
Boy boy boy I felt that man this is just what I have been looking for. I am a young musician but I am very talented and it seems like every church I go to they all like for me to labor and to have me to take out my time and play for them but don't want to pay me and if they do every musician should know that they are going to try you with 50 dollars.
I don't want to get paid. I already consider my privilege to serve as God's gift because I have an avenue to express and overflow His love to the congregation. Being connected to God is already heaven to me. We get paid in our community but I would rather pay just to be able to do what I do and just serve God.
It alway the people who sit on there butts and enjoy our labor and hard work that think we shouldn't get paid what would Sunday be like if no musicians show up or minister's of music , praise leaders across the world just stayed home and blessed a god at their first ministry there home or marriage just a thought
You better say that!
vstokes1985
As a musician myself, I find that many a time, the songs that I either sing or play are just as much of an act of worship, if not more, as me praying.
You would have to be a musician to understand that music is both a talent and a gift used many times as a ministry. It is used as a form of worship not only for the congregation but for the musicians themselves. This is key. Music is just as vital a component as prayer because many a song is a prayer put to music! Look at the Psalms of David. Singing is a talent. Preaching is a talent. Being a good church organizer or administrator is a talent. They are gifts that people cultivate and collectively, they are used in worship. So the same can be said of the preacher, or the singers, or anyone else.
Music helps to usher in the spirit of the Lord, set the atmosphere for worship, provide another platform for praise and worship in addition to testimony and other non-musical praise, and gives an opportunity for everyone to engage in collective praise/worship through song (because music IS some people's ministry). It's so much more than just people playing instruments. Music is truly how many people express their love, joy, and gratitude to Christ. Whereas some pray silently, others meditate, and yet others shout or dance, they are all outlets to praise and worship. Music is such a wonderful part of the service because as other people are sharing their cultivated gifts and talents and expressing their own praise/worship, all those watching or participating are likewise blessed.
Having said all this, I am in full support of paying musicians because of the time invested to become highly competent, play by ear, read music, play a dozen plus songs in a church service, spend 2-3 hours rehearsing with the choirs/praise team (which does not include the 3-5 hours on average of learning weekly material, lugging equipment, changing the key of the music (especially at the last minute), and generally being expected to do anything at little to no notice. The time they spend practicing, along with their skill is an investment in quality, Christian music. It should never be taken for granted.
I agree. I am a professional singer and I make sure my musicians are paid because I understand the labor involved. A church without musicians is a Bible Study. We all know how many people attend those...or Sunday School. It's the ANOINTING in the music that draws. Numbers 18 and 1st Chronicles 25 clearly defines that musicians and singers ARE to be provided for. A dollar bill is a piece of paper that shows you spent your life (time) somewhere. It is traded...time for time.
+dyphicult It would be (like it was) with Jesus and his Apostles who had ho musicians with them! This means it would be perfectly fine! What some people want and what some people need are not necessarily the same thing. In other words, wanting music does not mean that one needs music!
what makes you think there were no musicians then? Just because Hollywood filmed it like that??? Ya might wanna read the Bible....because they were ALWAYS there...and they got compensated well in those days....read Numbers 18 and 1st Chronicles 25...and Nehemiah 13. Blessings
All I have to say is Thank You Jesus...All of Jackson, Ms needs to see this...
You ain't never lied
My friend just told me that this is an SDA preacher.
I'm shocked.
And encouraged.
Hallelujah.
Do you know his name ?
What is SDA?
@@isaiahamos4276 Seventh Day Adventist
Yo I don't like this fighting in some of these comments. For the most part it's been intelligent conversation, but to those who are trippin a little bit: Let's make sure love is at the top of our to do lists. We're all in this to glorify God over all, let's be brothers and sisters as God would want!
You know, I find it odd that any time a light is shone (shined) on "errors in OUR ways" - - when "we like 🐑 have gone astra-a-a-a-a-a-y" from what GOD has clearly stated we are to do, there's always someone who will pull out the "We need to be loving to each other" card. The comments get "rough & raw" because people don't like to be corrected OFF of a path THEY have chosen. People don't want to be told they are NOT going to get their way. GOD said, as this pastor has said, ALL the people "on the platform" & the gatekeepers are to be paid (a living wage) from the tithes of the Church. Since THIS is the will of God, you're right, there shouldn't be any argument/angry responses - - but just telling people not to argue is NOT A SOLUTION that addresses the issue.
As a musician I must say that this is exactly what I needed to hear....
No, they should not be paid.
Only the Pastor or church minister is supposed to be paid.
The rest, tell them to get a job or start business.
They should sing and/play the instruments for the Lord.
@@pililani_blessings I've seen you post this ridiculous comment on multiple videos on this topic and I sincerely hope you're not in a leadership position of any church with this mindset. This pastor clearly outlined what the Word of God says on the matter. Did you even watch the video?
@@GatorTex
Its ridiculous to those who think the gospel is for sale.
Earning a living through God's calling or gifts is sin before God with the exception of the Shepherds.
Seek clarification from God through prayer and fasting before its too late.
Currently they are thousands of Christians in hell for this mistake of charging for the gifts of God like singing in the church/playing the musical instruments.
Solution
They need to get a job or start a business to a earn a living.
.
1 Corinthians 2:14-15
New King James Version
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
@@pililani_blessings It’s ridiculous to think you don’t have a right to earn a living according to the Apostle Paul himself in 1 Corinthians 9. Again, I sincerely hope you’re not in a leadership position with this woeful mindset.
@@pililani_blessingslmaooo, what a dumb take.
I'm so glad I was able to hear this! It is definitely speaking to my current situation right now. I'm dealing with a pastor who doesn't like to say no when people ask him to speak; so I'm left having to be at all these outside engagements and not get compensated for them. And in so many words he told me I needed to get a job because the church can't afford to pay me what I desire. BUT....the church can afford to use me for all these services. Thank you for posting this!!
AMEN BROTHA!! There is, however, an inverse to that. I am a full time musician myself, and I had to come to realize that being paid was not my entitlement. Being paid comes after you are committed to your craft for a certain amount of time, and u offer EXCELLENCE to God. All through Chronicles, particularly chapters 15 & 25 paint the picture. If your goal is money, then this ministry is not for you. Just sayin.
There are two different kinds of musicians in churches. Professionals (those who do it for a living), and those who do it on the side as a hobby. At my church, we have both. The church compensates the core professionals in the ministry because they respect the fact that this is how we make our living. Some of the other musicians make their living and are professionals in other fields besides music. They can afford to serve at church for no compensation.
This man of God is so awesome
Starting at 3:30 said it all. Church musicians go to school, work jobs and have families and STILL show up for practices (that aren't short). The congregation sees them on stage for a Sunday morning but don't see all the hours put in prior to the service that morning.
I have played guitar for about forty five years I always felt like it was an honor to play for my Jesus I could not I would not take money for playing for him that's how I feel about that after all the things he has done for me I will gladly play my guitar
Guitarist as well usually the last instrument added and the first critiqued. Pianos, drums and organs are provided but we provide our own instruments and are the least paid
Wake up you deserve better.
What ever is done in the body of Christ , should be done from the heart because you love the LORD.
Thank you.Every Church and Synagogue Congregation needs to hear this message.
Church Musicians are Pastors who do a parallel and equal job as the Senior Pastor/Teacher/Preacher/Minister of the Congregation if they,the Musicians,are committed and faithful to God.
Church Musicians proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ and teach and nurture Christ's Body,The Church.
To do the job well requires many years of study and practice and exams.The cost of University/Conservatorum of Music training is very high as is the time and cost of musical instruments,printed music and travelling and accommodation as well as the need to keep up practising,rehearsal,education,choosing and learning new music.The responsibility and demands of the job are equal to the Church Minister/Pastor/Teacher.
In the Biblical Israel, only Priests were allowed to be the Musicians in the Worship and Praise Services.
Musicians today use their work time to prepare the church music program when they could be in higher paid jobs elsewhere.
Musicians have to eat,pay for house,water,electricity,council rates,government taxes,superannuation,hospital and medical and old age pension and travelling costs.
Musicians also provide for family,children,parents and others in need.
Jesus said,"the worker is worthy of his wage".
The Apostle Paul said "those who proclaim the Gospel" are entitled to make their living out of it and be paid.
The Reverend Doctor Billy Graham,the famous and highly loved Evangelist to the world,insisted that his Musicians be paid.
Musicians should be paid.
***** A musician who does the job faithfully does feed the sheep.That's what King David did.He was a shepherd boy before becoming King of Israel.He was also a very skilled Harp player who could heal people and he was skilled at having insight as to people's needs and God chose him.
***** David was both.
God alone decides how big our job is.I have a priestly office which pastors/shepherds people and so do other musicians.
I recommend you study the whole of the Bible in fine detail,my friend.
***** A Music Pastor is my calling from God,my friend.Yeshua Ha Mashiach [Jesus Christ] is my Lord and Saviour.I get my orders from Him.
+Stephen Mayer speak brother..Yah is cleaning house of the false doctrines. PAY YOUR MUSICIANS
***** Musicians preach the gospel.Actions speak louder than words.The proof of your faith is in the good works you do.Faith without works is dead.J.S.Bach has been preaching the gospel long before Billy Graham was born.
It should always be done for the love of the work and know that yes, God does reward you, but instruments are not free. The education needed to learn your instrument is not free. It's true what he said, that people have full-time jobs and families and the church requires your "extra time." I don't see how that is giving the best. An hour at rehearsal is an hour spent that you will never get back, an hour you will never give your family. Why do people get so spiritual about blessing the man of G
This is the only way a church can be supported is by people giving to the church! If no one gives or donates churches wouldn't exist!
yes I have always said yes
Yes Sirrr!!!
A lot of what was he was saying really struck me . I understand what he was saying but not all churches can not afford to pay their musicians or who serve. We would like to bless those who serve but we have to pay for the necessities for ministry. Many churches cannot afford salaries for them and if you can thats great but we have to keep ministry our number one priority. You may have to end up serving without a paycheck but you are suppose to serve no matter what so that God will bless you.
Because it's a lie there is no real logic to it, this is why there is much chaos and ''playing music is fun'' where is the work in that?
I've been a musician for the Lord for years, and never got paid, nor want it to.Back in the world I did it for money, but now that I'm saved, I played for the Lord with great joy and with all of my heart, and I would never accept money or pay from any church. Prison ministry, revivals, etc, did it all with gratitude for my Lord Christ Jesus. He deserves that and more, for all of His blessings and love toward us, and specially for His Grace. Is a true privilege, Glory be to God in Christs name.
The workman is worthy of his wages. Period. Did you hear what the preacher says about 2 minutes in? Check out 5 or 6 minutes in also.
Nothing wrong with volunteering to go street ministry and hospital/prison ministry, but leading corporate worship means you get paid. Levites were priests, MUSICIANS, and door keepers. The tithing supported them all!
Only part-time musicians who are not struggling with money ever say "I have never been paid, and never wanted to be." What a terrible thing to try to plant in the minds of musicians who were giving their ALL in time, effort, study, practice, research and more (organizing others, teaching, calibrating equipment, recording, shopping for upgrades, etc.) to make the corporate worship the _best it can be_ !!!!
Say it Doc. God Bless the ones that are working on in the name of the Lord. Whether they get paid or not. Man.....This has helped me.
"Should Church Musicians Be Paid from the Tithe?" Awesome Word! Who is the pastor and how can I get this message?
Yes who is he please
Our motive should NOT be money. However, this video addresses the responsibility of the church body to it's servants, not the attitude of the servant to the church body.
I play for 3-4 churches per week (including my home church) just to barely survive. It's extremely exhausting & hard to commit. Memorizing multiple set lists of songs & keys they sing in per week is a crazy life. I haven't been on a vacation in years because missing a Sunday/Saturday is like missing a weeks worth of work..smh
Thanks for sharing this on behalf of a whole lot of musicians and people that work in church. People don't like to understand why musicians leave church and play for more financially beneficial gigs and artists. Church is one of the BEST place to be GOTTEN OVER on for your gift or talent. It's a shame, but hopefully one day the church will wake up and appreciate what they have. It's not all about money, but a pat on a shoulder does not take care of life's expenses.
Be Blessed,
Dre'
1) I do believe that any/all musicians should be paid. BUT!!! You just cant put anyone up in the altar. You will know them by their fruits as individuals and as A CHURCH. Truly understand the purpose of a church, then you know that there is plenty of things that should be going on before debating about how much "I" should get paid. Better to give then to receive my friend. Read verses: James 1:27, 1 Timothy 5:3, Galatians 2:10, James 2:2-6, 1 John 3:17-18. Church is not a building, is you.
AMEN PASTOR!! Thank you for "leading out" God's word through scriptural passages on this controversial topic!!
Levites are musicians and singers. The Levites receiving pay for what they do, and the amount of time they spend is their rightful portion. Biblically the Levites should be taken care of so that they in turn can provide for their family. Those that do not understand that should Research all necessary chapters in the Bible concerning Levites.
BTW: My pastor is speaking raw truth up there!
I agree... only word of caution. We should make a living, not expect to be rich!
@Exit the new covenant doesn't take away the practicality of tithing. The crops and livestock were their means of trade. We no longer trade crops. We use currency. Also, the purpose of the tithe is so that the church can function. People like to say tithing isn't necessary but will be the first ones complaining when the air, heat or lights aren't working.
Also, for the ones that are against musicians getting paid, don't complain when they play other places to make income. Even though we enjoy playing, it's still our craft in which we make money to put a roof over our head and food on our table. If you are going to require me to render my services two or three nights a week and then all day Sunday, yes you have to compensate me. Just like, no professional electricians or carpenters are going to come change light fixtures and carpet for free.
All I have to say, is I pray you read the BIBLE when you open it... cause you speaking is what someone preached to you and not what the bible say...... I will give you just a few out of hundreds of Scriptures that show us they used silver and gold for money to trade and buy or pay debt for what ever the cause..... STARTING IN GENESIS!! this is to hope you read the bible and not sermons.....
Genesis 23:15
My lord, hearken unto me: the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver; what is that betwixt me and thee? bury therefore thy dead.
Genesis 23:16
And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron; and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current money with the merchant.
>>>>> CURRENT MONEY>>>>>>
Genesis 41:57
And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands..............
Genesis 42:2
And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence; that we may live, and not die.
if they had FOOD TO TRADE, for food in a famine..... does that make since to you.. they would not had to travel so far if they had food. they went to buy food.
Deuteronomy 2:6
Ye shall buy meat of them for money, that ye may eat; and ye shall also buy water of them for money, that ye may drink.
and we know they had money in Jesus' day, cause they spoke of who image was on it... but what was the tithe of the priest? oils, mint, spices and so on... not once did the Bible say the priest gave money to the temple or anyone for that matter...... THEY GAVE TO THE POOR, over and over again in the NT.... even Christ said when we give to the poor we do unto him.... it's called a tithe to preachers... therefore evangelist, teacher, deacons, everyone who do service to God should receive from the collected money..... because a pastor is not put in a place where they supposed to be treated greater than anyone else.
then anyone who do the ministry of God should receive a tithe. we are all priest unto God, to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ... if a "church" want to collect money say they can meet in a building that has heat, toilets and so on....then do that, but dont lie to the people and say God said they have to..... these buildings are not the House of the Living God... and anyone who calls them so is in idolatry because God said his House will NOT be built with man's hands... we his children is God's church and I would wonder what god they are worshiping when everything they do and teach is not The Word of God.,,,,,,,,, please put down those sermon when you pick up the Word of God... or else you will never see nothing but what was told to you.....
Please read Galatians chapter 3, we are not under the law of tithe, the law ended when Jesus Died, and rose again, and where grace began, we are under grace, and not the law, the church doesn't operate in tithing, but in giving, 2nd Corinthians 6:6-8 declares But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:, tithing was strictly for the levitical priesthood/the levite's, widow's, and orphan's also, the levite's were set apart to minister unto the LORD, and the tithe was collected from the tribes of Israel so that the levite's would have what they needed for themselves, Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation....this tithe was not a picture for us to continue in today, they didn't tithe every week? Deuteronomy 26:12 declares When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the ((third year, which is the year of tithing,)) and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled...so where does the weekly come from according to this scripture if we're going to mimic what they done back then?
kp, you MUST be a musician becuz your words ring so true. After 8 years of formal non-gospel lessons, a 10 year hiatus, and 4 years of self teaching in gospel I'm just now understanding where I need to be lol. It takes YEARS to be DECENT at it. Most people have no clue the effort, time and sacrifice we musicians make week in and week out. In most cases, the compensation we do get doesn't equal out, but many realize it's a ministry first and we have a passion to play and perfect our craft.
Of course musicians should be paid
That's a lie and the truth is not in it.
@@shyane6309 Why shouldn't they be paid?
@@shyane6309 pastors should not be paid! Simple. No one should be paid then, if you are advertising your program on the radio, TV, magazine, you must not pay who is offering the service, if you are fixing the electricity in the church, the electrician must not be paid, if you are fixing the air conditioning the technician must not be paid since it's for God! You people comment not know what you saying at all, when it comes to musicians that's when you set unreasonable and unrealistic standards! One more, if you need musical equipments in church you must get it for free because it's for the Lord! Get out of here. Bible stated the groups 9f people entitled to the tithes of the church the poor, the Levites ( those who work in the church) strangers, widows and the fatherless. Read your Bible!
This is the reason why it's easy to get a blossoming musician at the start of his journey but as soon as his worth is recognized by someone or some place else he's gone
Tell the truth! Looking for $ that's why so easy for musicians to stop playing in church and go to the club just like the devil wants 😑
@@jumbojimbo3601exactly!
You know, I've been playing for free all my life and I'm the type of person that doesn't even think of asking because of my love for God, but this kind of opened my eyes a bit. I do agree that they should get paid, however much it is, and that churches should not have a problem if they have another job just to make an honest living.
Nice the hear this
I’m one of those worship leaders that don’t get paid and I do two services a week sometimes 3 after working and commuting which makes a 12 hour day. I’m told that my church will never pay anything to it’s musicians even though we pay for equipment, lessons, music , spend our “free” time practicing and I do the programming of the Sunday set, rehearse the band, deal with peoples personal problems and habits. I try to give my best and get the other worship team members to do the same and it can get overwhelming sometimes. I know Hod will bless us in a special way if we do this out of love for him but it would sure be nice to have the church by us an instrument or some lessons to help us give our best. I tell you one thing, when I was playing secular music, we got paid and appreciated.
So this guy is running back to the OLD COVENANT for a basis to say that musicians should be paid from the TITHE?
Well -- according to THE LAW of Moses, tithes were always CROPS and ANIMALS from within the borders of Israel. Even though the children of Israel had LOTS of money, God never ever told them to tithe MONEY. I repeat, according to THE LAW of Moses, tithes were always CROPS and ANIMALS. God commanded the tithe from what HE CREATED, not from what man created (money).
Not everyone was required to tithe under the Law of Moses. Only FARMERS and SHEPHERDS who had crops and animals were required to tithe. The poor, widows, orphans and strangers were EXEMPT from tithing -- they RECEIVED tithes (as a form of charity) from the tithers.
Only the TRIBE OF LEVI were allowed to collect the tithes. NO ONE ELSE was allowed to collect the tithes.
According to the Law of Moses, tithers gave 3 separate tithes (The Levitical Tithe, The Poor Tithe, and The Festival Tithe). They did not tithe on Sabbath Years, because the land had to rest. To my knowledge, no one is obeying this today.
According to Hebrews 8:13, the tithing laws are no longer in effect, because God rendered the Old Covenant obsolete and instituted a NEW COVENANT. The Levitical priesthood is GONE. The Old Covenant storehouses are GONE. NO ONE is tithing what GOD said to tithe (crops and animals from the land of Israel).
To ask the question "should church musicians be paid from the tithe" IGNORES what the tithing laws teach. It IGNORES that the apostles taught freewill offerings and grace-giving in the New Covenant. Many of these church musicians aren't even saved in the first place, and the music is used to entertain and stroke the emotions of the congregation.
Greetings, i am with you on this, new covenant giving is: freewill, sacrificial, generous, joyful, regular and motivated by love for God, fellow Christians and lost souls.However, take off tithe form the picture and you would see the pastor has a point. I am of the opinion that money given to church should be accounted for. I also think some of that money should be used to keep & train christian musicians who can bring down God's glory. The church uses unsaved musician because they are trained and devoted to their thing, funny enough they get paid when they come to play for churches. On the other hand christian musicians are under trained and laden with the burden of feeding families, even when they make time to play no one really cares. Who will train or musicians for us? We need to as a body address the issue of tithe and what our giving goes for. We need not undermine the power of true worship and praise by cutting it off !
HEYYYYYYYY EXITCHURCHIANITY.... LOVE YA SIS.
Cookie White
Love ya back sis!!
Exit Churchianity Okay, then how about paying the musicians from the freewill offering?
Exit Churchianity You are right about tithes! They are using the lie of Replacement Theology if they go to the old testament to back up giving to the church. That being said. To pay a little bit to the musicians that take time away from their families just so Sister Complain and Brother Moan can have a good band would be nice. They preach 10% so they can guarantee a steady income instead of trusting God. But, you must do His will to be blessed. Some don't want to do his will. They just want that check!
I appreciate this message. I'm in transition. And YAH our father is opening up doors outside of where I am a member where they don't pay musicians. But you reap what you sow and, I've sown into them. Why would YAH our Father not have me reap a harvest.
Can anyone provide a BIBLE VERSE, not opinion, or denominational dogma, or tradition that shows the Tithe was money? We hear tithe tithe tithe all the time, and I would go out on a limb and say if anyone is using MONEY as tithe, BIBICALLY, you are not tithing, and are in fact disobedient to what God required as tithes....you can't substitute what you want to use as "tithe" and say you are doing it....sorry.......If God asked you for a yellow towel and you gave Him a red one, you are disobedient to His request....so is everyone who thinks they are Tithing using money......of course I'm not going to site any references, that's for you to study to show yourself approved unto God.....Furthermore, once you find where any New Testament church "TITHED" let me know.....
I understand where you are coming from, but do you actually think that Alabama Power or Alagasco is going to take a goat or lamb for a bill payment?
In the old days people used animals such as lambs or fruits as sacrifices. Today is different. How will the church bills get paid? I like to see you offer the light company a donkey as payment. Preaching the gospel is not cheap.
Andrea Steen Alabama Power or Alagasco aren't regulated by God's order, but the church is correct? If so, then we should "do it like the bible says" as we so have been taught. Not one scripture in the WHOLE BIBLE will indicate anyone using money for tithes. Abraham had shekels or gold and silver...that's money...Joseph was sold for shekels of silver, so the monetary system was in place wayyyyyyyyyy before the law of the tithe was given to the children of Israel. So my question again is if there was money before the law of tithes, and money during the law of tithes, why didn't God require that they give money? I guess I missed the scripture where God changed it from consumable goods to money...maybe you can give me the scripture. Don't assume that because many don't "tithe" they don't give. Giving and "tithing" are two separate things. I still give, I just can't give MONEY as a biblical tithe and be obedient to what is outlined in the bible. I am still amazed after all these years that even if there isn't any biblical proof people will still do, and have the nerve, not attacking you personally, to speak against someone who doesn't give money as tithe, and they have scripture to support their position.....
vstokes1985 If i still gave money as tithes, I would ask for your paypal account to send you mine!!! AMEN!!!! lol
revolutonradioshow! You asked if anyone could show you in the Word that tithes were money! If you read and research the 14 chapter of Genesis, you wil find that the term "goods" imply gold, silver, fine linen, etc. 11 And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way. 16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. 20 And he gave him tithes of all. A despotic king name Chedorlaomer had previously conquered six nations of giants. He took the spoil of their land with him to fight the five kings, which included Sodom and Gomorrah. Sodom owed back tribute payments, but refused to pay them. When Abram defeated these four kings he met the king of Salem (Melchizedek). The bible plainly states that he gave him tithes of ALL. In the all was the currency of these nations. There is the answer to your question. The tithes that were given were currency as well as food or victuals. Another resource of information is in the book of Job. The bible explains the wealth of Job, but calls it SUBSTANCE. When the bible list the inventory of Job's portfolio, it is primarily animals. Animals were currency in the economical system of that era. Job1:3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. An animal had a plethora of uses in those days and times. Animals were not just food, but currency!
I believe we all have a choice to make regardless of anyone's activity. Just because someone decides to wrong us... we cannot justify a wrong action on our part. The choice to do/play or not is up to the individual. Control what you can and let God handle what you can't. I think this debate is interesting because I've seen it from both sides and most people think it's really about money... but it's really about the state of people's hearts.
I just went through a huge break up with my church due to the church refusing to pay for my service. I worked for a year with no pay, then they gave a love offering and took it back, then paid for 2 Sundays when there are 4 to 5 Sundays in a month. To top it off I was told to just come and sit on the pew if I didn't like it. I stood up taller then every and left. Was hired at another church the next week with pay. Pay your musicians. Especially ones that provide the instruments and quality music
REAL MAN OF GOD... GOD BLESS SSSSSSSSS YOU... FROM GHANA ... please come here and tell our african pastors... gospel musicians in ghana are suffering to hell...
Doing music seriously for a living, there has to be a financial provision with anything you do including church as with any other profession ,that’s just good business.
Let us remember the laborer is worthy of his hire i am a Pastor @a PHD Musician and i agree musicians need to be paid because they render service to the Lord@churches lets be honest the churches that want to be cheap the music structure is not all that i been playing for 32 years i have seen the highs and lows of salaries to the churches that want to be cheap you get what u pay for
Thank God for such an awesome perspective. The relationship between the church and the musician needs heeling for sure and I believe it is on the way! Amen!!
He is preaching the truth!!! The worship prepares the heart for the word.... It goes hand and hand! One isn't better, stronger, nor more important than the other! They both are important to the Lord because He wants to prepare your heart with music, and encourage you/speak to you through the word. You can't have one without the other. Great word doc!
This Great Man of God is really Making sense
Church musicians must be well catered for🙏🔥🙏We must be Paid🔥
Who is he?
This man has studied well. The statements made in this video are accurate and consistent with the scripture.
+Dr. Arthur D. Kemp He has left out critical information about the nature of the office. He leads one to believe that these individuals were compensated because of their musical talent. This is not so. they were compensated because they were Priest. Some of the priest just happened to be able to create music or provide security. Again, their compensation was due to their position as priest, not extracurricular activities.
+BDP And these are the singers, chief of the fathers of the Levites, who remaining in the chambers were free: for they were employed in that work day and night. 1 Chronicles 9:33
I read the verse that you posted here. But do you have literature to support this concept of payment for being in the office of Priest rather than as a musician BDP? I would be interested in reading something (historical information) if you can point me in that direction. That would be helpful to read. The reason is - following that line of thinking to today - since all saints of the Most High are Kingdom Priests - then all church labors could be compensated for their services (which some churches seem to come close to doing). Thanks very much!!! I would appreciate that.
When did the bible call the musician extracurricular?
Nehemiah did not say the Levites were also singers in chapter 13. He said the Levites and singers. And everyone is STILL missing the point. If we seek to please God and not ourselves, this won't even be an issue because the Holy Spirit will guide us.
The church should definitely seek to employ the workers so that they can have their undivided attention. I am a musician and i tell if I could earn anything from playing in church, let alone what i get from playing with secular artists, i would certainly play exclusively for the betterment of the kingdom
The church is a for profit business, It should pay it’s musicians. It should pay it's taxes like every other business. Make no mistake, the church is a business.
Most church musicians aren’t good enough to be paid; many of the people who can’t cut it in the real world end up playing in church where the standards are lower. They should be higher.
pay them to use their BEST TIME to utilize their God-given skills, Bro that was so powerful.
it's not ENOUGH for what He represents! c'mon Jesus, yesss!!
wow, I got goose bumps listening to this preaching! The brother speaks from the word & is anointed. Within our "Protestant" beliefs there are many different doctrines that may at times cause some confusion, often leaving us second guessing the VOICE of true leadership. But Jesus spoke of our Father's kingdom, never once mentioning a division amongst it. So let our listening of the Word be guided by the Spirit.
Amen Brother! I could write a lot here of things I’ve seen over the years that we’re just so painful. A professional musician many years before Christ . Read write arrange for any instrument lead worship teams from acoustic. Still play and minister nationally and internationally. So I’m not a novice writing here.
Read and RE
-read these scriptures on tithing giving sharing etc many times over the last 33 years.
I’m thankful - very thankful this man of God is preaching this word at this time.
And to all my fellow musicians who have given of their time talent treasure family time job time etc,.
May the Lord who sees (El) and the God who provides Jehovah-jireh richly Bless you and your families. May He open His good treasure to you and may you come in to your Devine destinies using your awesome God-given gifts and be happy in the Lord All your days.
Sincerely,
-M
Church musicians should be paid if you employ them at your church. If you value having a church musician paid that musician. From the tithes, from the offerings, from a sponsor, from wherever you deem it necessary, pay your church musicians... I am a church musician. I worked for the state, and I play with a band. I GOT PAID! Good musicians get paid with no problem. I have never had a problem getting my check after service. My gift, of which I have honed, makes room for me. Don't be cheap!
I absolutely agree. Me being the only musician in my church playing everything is hard work. Plus I play for 3 other churches. But being a bass player at heart has it's times where I don't care if I get paid. I just love doing it because it's what God has blessed me with. But I have to have some money that will get me back home. There are several churches that place religion in front of the church. Certain people have no money or some money, so they believe in saving money for things. And then it carries into church to where someone doesn't want to pay you for playing. So sometimes religion has to do with it by majority. Me being in North Carolina, honestly, no one will really pay you at all. So I adapt around it sometimes. But I love music and I have goals to do something even bigger each day with it. So my labor has to pay off. I want everyone else to understand my goals. But every good musician doesn't expect money to be put in their hands. Not every church is rich or has a good amount I money. If God blessed you with a talent, he'll bless you for using it to minister through music.
Every SDA Churches need to hear this Sermon. Every denomination seem to recognize the importance of a good salary for their Ministers of Music, except the SDA Churches. A musician will run themselves to the ground with work for the SDA church, most SDA churches will drop a couple of hundred bucks in their pockets and act like that's a full time salary. Well said Preacher!!!
tithe is not JUST money. Read the context (which cuts both ways). The only greens that people produce today are money. People tithed from their increase. There is nothing wrong with linking tithes to money.
Good point, somebody cook dinner every week specifically for their church ministry staff, that might suffice if money is a problem!
Great preaching,, I'm sure certain folk will object,, and if they do,, let them hear this preacher again,,AMEN!!!
Since I gave my life to the Lord, I demanded that whatever money I’m to receive playing the drums, to put it in offering or my tithes. Church is one day a week. I’d be worried more about getting paid the other 6 days. Point is, i made myself a living sacrifice and whatever he need me to do, I’m a do for free. You see what happened to Elijah’s servant!!
And bless you too man. I always enjoy a talk about Gods word. I pray that we both will continue to study and grow in his word.
How many churches and ministry leaders are taken advantage of and leave the ministry hurt, worn out, and their families struggling? Should those who serve us through faith live with such uncertainty? What other occupation is expected to tolerate this?
CMLeaders
Ouch...20 yrs of this. True!!!
I am a perfect example of this message. I've studied, have the qualifications and experience. I volunteer at a Spanish ministry of a church of about 1000. Only have taken 3 Sundays off in almost 2 years. I play every instrument professionally and write for any instrument, style, anytime. I know God has sustained me & my family thus far. But that message is for me. I should be looking elsewhere. Although I know God acknowledges, still the factor of being compensated is a necessity. What ya think?
@Tokyobrwn......I mentioned the Black Church only because that's what I know. I don't know how the other cultural churches operate. I do agree with you at the same time though. 2 Chronicles 5-13 talks about the Singers and Musicians coming together AS ONE VOICE and when that happen,the glory of God filled the house so much that the priests could not minister.....but to get that,you have to have skillful Musicians to rehears,play and direct and that's a Job.
I'm a drummer and Guitarist-singer one that has decided 90 % of my time learning new music having rehearsal I play music for the lord every day to give God my very best every Sunday I can work full time because I'm dedicated to God I should be paid for that reason
I respect this man totally!!! He built his argument on sound biblical truth. You can fight against a man's word but you cant fight against the word of God!!! Well said pastor!
Doctors and nurses who works at the hospitals are doing it because its their job and its their work. But if they extend their profession inside the church like doing medical mission or any help inside the church, they call it service. Medical field can also be a spiritual gift. Musicians who plays outside the church is considered a job or work but when they play inside the church its called service. Playing instruments either it's acquired or its a talent if you used it inside the church its a spiritual gift. when i play on different churches Like Catholic church, pentecostal, Baptist and ETC. they pay me and its like a job/work when i play to them. But when i play inside my church i play for free its my service. So it depends upon the musician if he wants to be a fulltime gospel musician as a job then he should be paid. But some musicians do it for service. i respect all musicians coz we have all different personalities, perspective and goals. God bless us all.🙏✌🏽
I DEFINETLY APPRECIATE THIS SERMON!!! IT WILL OPEN THE EYES OF THE BLIND CHURCH FOKE!!! HERE I AM IN PRAISE & WORSHIP. (CHAMPIONS-4-CHRIST) ATLANTA GA
@MrRobertresto I totally agree with you MrRobertresto, and God bless you and your music. my opinion is Biblical and correct, but don't forget to do it with all of your heart, and take it as a blessing and a priviledge, cause the Lord does not have a need for us, we, need the Lord. and thank Him for His blessings and health, specially salvation and grace. Blessings to all Musicians.
Some people speak out of ignorance. 2 Timothy 2:15 say a to study to show thyself approval unto God, a workman need not to be ashamed but rightly dividing the word of truth. I've read a lot of the comments and some of them are people who hasn't really studied their word. I believe in every word of the Bible. " even tithing " Someone stated, oh that's a Old Testament law. Well Jesus said I did not come to destroy the law but I've come to fulfill the law. Not only that He also stated, render unto
I have played at my church for 19-20 years. It is a lot of work but I choose to do it for free. No I do not consider myself an elite piano player but if you start singing I can meet you there and hang on! But those that can get it get it you make a difference in the service and I respect that! Some guys come to the church with other choirs and I’m always in awe of their musical talents! If the church can afford to pay them and choose to by all means! But the smaller ones like ours cannot and so I donate my services!
@tokyobrwn - the name of the book is "Minstrels and Psalmists: The Key To Davidic Praise & Worship.
1. It is up to the pastor of the particular church or organization and the vision God gives him or her on how to run the affairs of that house according to his or her understood interpretation and application of the word of God. 2. He or she must give an account or is held accountable to God, family, the congregation, the denomination/organization/affiliation, and the government for those affairs. 3. All sheep have their own decision concerning which field they decide to graze in and why.
i play organ and drums. if i don't get paid thats alright because i'm not really doin it for the money. i'm doing it because i love God and i take advantage of the gifts he has given me.
I've been saying this for years. He said everything. No need for me to add or takeaway.
@tokyobrwn It's not even about money. It's about MAINTAINING. A person can't maintain their gift/talent without investing in it. Anyone that know a musician that's serious about their craft understands that they make sacrifices behind closed doors...it's called practice and preparation. It's the part that no one sees before they get on stage or before they play, sing or do whatever. Even if it comes natural, it takes maintenance. Just like a car will break down if you don't keep it tuned up.
So Truthful! I prayed that more "PEOPLE" had this mind set.
I totally agree woth this as a musican myself we should get something we have to at one or two services not including if theres services through the week and rehearsal time and having to travel with the pastor its a lot to do its like a second job which means put of all that we take time off the jobs we do work which means we dont get paid for that time off. yes we should get something for what we do.
I'm a Pastor, I have worked in ministry and preaching since I was 16, now 32. I don't look to get paid from the church. I do what I do for the kingdom. God has always took care of me. Now if the church sew a seed into my life I would take it but I don't do it for the money. God looks at the heart of a man and is moved through that.
GOD BLESS YOU SIR FOR THIS..
I whole heartedly agree, but who is to say how much the minister should make. Also if the church is like a store front or some what small, should the pastor come in there each service with a fresh suit. Driving a new Lexus each year. Along with the church paying all his bills.
Right. Some musicians get paid in the churches that can afford it. But those that can't cause the pastor only gets 2 dollars.... I guess they are screwed.
amen... you're right. Churches need to re-priortize the church budget. I hard a church testimony where during the early part of the recession challenged members to but in the offering basket if they had it and take money out if they didn't... Sounds radical, but offerings actually grew... near the end offerings were so much that they began giving money to families to bless other families in the community. If members feel like there the church is truly blessing them, giving is natural.
{a sigh of relief} This is soooo TRUE!!! It is very hard to work a full time job and then come into a rehearsal to play for a choir.....and in my case to teach a choir and direct them. But all eyes are on US when things go wrong!!! Its not fair!!! Thanks for this post!!!
Numbers 18
To directly address the question "Should Church Musicians Be Paid from the Tithe?"
YES!!!
The old testament DOES give precedent that the levites (i.e. ALL church workers) be paid and, further, that payment should come from the tithe. From the tithe received, the levites gave 10 percent to THE priest. Further, the priest received ALL the offerings. Here's the caveat Levites were NOT TO HAVE ANY OTHER INHERITANCE Their tribe was not even given land like the other tribes.
I so agree!!! This preacher is on point. Even if we don't require payment, you should at least show a person appreciation and realize they are human other than just a church musician.
THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING OUT THE TRUTH!!!!
This absolutely breaks my heart
I have a brother that on his ⛪ they ask him to play 4 this ministry and that ministry.he never ever gets a dime 4 ⛽ instruments etc.when we play outside I always pay him.he needs to wake up.i send him this video.he always says is unto the LORD and drives a old van with a old Roland 350 amp ???