The stainless steel products are NOT poor quality as some are suggesting. Represented in my anchor and bridle system are Cromox, Wichard, OEM shackles, a Mantus anchor and swivel on the bridle, a piece of US stainless chain. All brand parts were stamped and from official sources. It stands to reason that if some of these parts had always been on there and never pitted and the remaining parts are now not pitting further the issue was environmental and not emanating from the hull or a product defect. There is junk in the soil there but I doubt that would cause this level of rapid and extreme corrosion. It must have been power from a house/dock. Further this issue stopped at the windlass due to resistance and it being isolated.
Correct. In this case there was electric current applied to the chain. Our cromox chains, made in Germany out of 318LN duplex material, are fully tested in-house in our Lloyd's Register certificated test laboratory and salt spray chamber as well as by many anchor chain testers around the globe.
If you think its happening when the anchor is in the water try fitting a sacrificial zinc near the anchor and see how quick it degrades. Stainless is far from bullet proof on anchoring systems. At least galvanized steel chain and anchors have zinc protection built in.
We had a 46 foot hi tensile masthead sloop we built from scratch about 40 years ago. She’s still around and in good nick. Apart from zinc bolted onto the prop shaft when at anchor we used two zinc blocks bow and stern. Zinc block was square in shape with a hole in the middle. Stainless cable wrapped through the middle etc was wrapped on the stainless bow and stern piping. Occasionally it needed freshening up with a wire brush.
I do have a Waelder 10 mm Chain made in Germany made from doublex stainless steel for almost 20 years in the Caribbean see and no corrosion. All other chains of lesser quality will corrode in the warm waters. Take a magnet and test the chain if it is complete free of magnetism
@@travelsketch 316 stainless is very non magnetic. 318 duplex is very noticeably magnetic. I have Ketten Walder 318 10mm chain on my boat. They do sell 316 chain with their mark on them also. Their rep told me a magnet should stick to 318 chain, but just fall off 316 chain. And yes, 316 is not appropriate for warm water, it's PREN is too low. Double check what your chain actually is, it's possible you have a Cromox chain that is only 316.
We are very happy to hear such positiv long-term experience! Resistance butt welding without additional material, ideal raw material, correct passivation, and frequent testing are required.
Electrical leakage on the windlass motor, a reasonably simple way around this is a high current relay on the negative side of the windlass supply activated before and after use, same with the starter motors on your main and genset. Realistically all the electrical ancillaries should be above earth with no chassis negative connections.
We are going to look at total isolation of the windlass if we replace the stainless steel chain with the same in future to reduce risk in the event of an electrical fault.
The windlass has a positive isolation point and relays. (it was + isolated at the time) Now it will have manual switches on all cables to the unit. The windlass suffered zero corrosion. I intend to isolate it completely to remove chance of future issue if a component on the yacht fails.
Thanks! Interesting you just see it on the anchor and anchor chain. My experience is one would see it on most all the stainless on the cat. So, I'm with you...the bay but very unusual.
I learnt a lot from the stainless chain guru interviewed by you tube channel - Sailing Fair Isle - episode Anchoring 101. 316 stainless will corrode in warm waters. They advise using 318 duplex stainless in tropics.
Tested 318LN Duplex material is the choice for warm waters. E-polished to get the most out of the material including less tangling and less adhesion of dirt.
Sorry to hear you are having more problems. You might want to check out wire connectors for good tight connections. Look for wires in the bulge area. You might want to ask gone with the wind sailing you tube couple if they have any answers about there boat with the same issues.
At least you found it before drifting onto another boat or washed ashore. Some times surprised that anchors don't have a sacrificial anode. Then a casual look will indicate galvanic problems.
It's been the worst experience of our lives and particularly for Trent, that says alot. The yard we were at is Power Boats - are you looking for a haul out spot?
For what it's worth, RUclipsrs, consider the advice of this 74 year-old long time cruiser. Forget all of glitter of expensive and complicated cruising sailboats unless you are a marine engineer and enjoy dealing with things like this.
There is no easy way out. Now I'm involved in it all I have a pretty good idea. I get your point. I do have an engineering background fortunately. Having a basic and simplistic boat does not allow for remote area cruising. It requires tech and understanding to balance watermaking with power etc. I keep the systems as simple and compartmentalized as possible. Since warranty approval and recognition I have torn out a bunch of garbage work and redone it.
I wonder how it would have been with Galvanized chain and anchor in the same conditions. in tens of thousands of miles of cruising I have never had this happen. But never anchored near DC underwater lights from houses either.
Hi Guys So sorry to hear about your new troubles. We have a 1999 46 foot Bavaria and have owned it for some 15 years, and we have sailed it all around the Med. The boat has 10 mm German made stainless steel (Inox) chain that is now some 25 years old…..We totally love it. No rusting, no corrosion, flops down in anchor locker, and mud and weed seem to just slide off it. Our chain is high quality German made stainless. Sadly, there is a lot of pure rubbish ss chain that is sold as German made chain, but is actually just packaged in Europe but made in Asia. I am sure the Chinese will have the best ss in a very short time, but currently I will never buy Chinese made ss chain or standing rigging. When we re-rigged in Turkey a few years back, I insisted on going to the workshop, and looking at the packaging. The rigging company was very accommodating, as they also had very bad experience in the past with Asian made ss rigging wire. You may also have stray current issues here. There are two schools of thought here. Bond or Insulate. Each camp has very good arguments. However in my 60 odd years of boating life I always insulate, never bond. That is my personal choice. I have never had electrolysis issues in any of my boats. However, I have seen lots of electrolysis issues in bonded boats. Do lots of personal research……Good luck. J
We always tell her she was the bestest puppy in the puppy patch 🥰 The first time Trent met her she leapt off a 1ft ledge at 8 weeks old, ran up and savaged his shoelace - he knew from that moment she was the troublemaker for us 😂
Yes but we have almost zero volts windlass to chain under all circumstances we can think of and the corrosion has stopped as far as we can tell now after moving.
SS needs a constant source of water to give it oxygen. If it doesn't get it, the saltwater interaction with the SS will create an acid which will eat away at the metal. This is called crevice corrosion. This is why I don't understand why cruisers use SS anchor and chains. Day/weekend sailors have no problem using SS because their gear isn't in the water much. Cruisers who have their gear down months at a time, well, it is a big chance they are going to get crevice corrosion on either the chain or the anchor as they can get buried in mud or silt which prevents fresh flow of water around it.
@@travelsketch Maybe that week everything was buried good but other times the wind was strong enough to move the chain around keeping it from being covered for long. I'm not saying this is absolutely what happened, but it can happen with SS.
Yet another expensive nightmare on this boat? Who woulda thought eh. This boat is cursed. btw why is it that Trent dude does bugger all and gets the fun jobs while the other 2 are doing all the work? who woulda thought he's "broken" as you put it and the other dude is in work mode, like always
You need to inspect your sail drives, they could have been compromised by the electrolysis. The Sailing Dauntless channel had new sail drives destroyed in about a week with a stray current issue!!!!!!
Good advice I did that. SS rudder when bonding removed is SS and gave the same DC reading in the seawater as the chain and anchor around 0.9VDC Boat has 0.2VDC which offsets the chain down to 0.5VDC which the chain produces the same 0.9V as the rudder.
We de-bond as much as possible on our cat. Ground isolation prevents so many corrosion issues. Anchor windlass is isolated on both +ve and -ve. Engines are isolated on +ve and -ve. All thru hulls composite. Rudder hydraulics (conductive) isolated. Rapid corrosion needs a circuit. No circuit, no dissimilar metal corrosion. We do not bond AC Gnd to DC -ve. AC Gnd is for shore, not for boat engines.
@@travelsketcheven 318 or other duplex alloys are not fantastic in water over 28⁰-30⁰C. I have looked at buying Chromox chain but I can get at least two galvanized chains for the price of one Chromox and it's just less fragile and less prone to sudden problems. I don't really trust stainless under the water.
Yep, in that first period we would have been within 50m of the houses/underwater lights. The only other boats were power boats but they all tie onto their own docks or moorings, they don't anchor.
What is so wrong with galvanised G70 chain that is half the price but more than twice the strength of stainless steel with far fewer failure-modes, that makes people still choose stainless? I can understand that it flakes better and sloughs of mud easier but when it comes to a real blow I'd be worrying far more. Working Load Limits, ultimate strength and the ability to take side-loading are of critical importance and G70 wins hands-down on them all at the same size. Sure, you can increase the diameter of chain but that places far more weight right up front which will compromise performance and even safety in a bad seaway. People seem naturally to equate price with quality, but in this case its necessary to research the details with great thoroughness.
You might want to check your zincs as there is going to be another end of this 'battery' somewhere in the equation, especially the ones on your sail drives current from underwater lights in the bay hmm>, current flows to ground, your anchor chain would be an unlikely ground for a source on the island. The reason this happens in marinas is because your boat is connected to the same ground as the source of the stray currents, via the shore power cable. galvanic corrosion is like a battery and in needs a closed circuit to run, it only occurs to the metals in the solution so I would not expect to see it dry side. I would suggest your investigations reconnected a loose grounding to the chain or windlass.
The zincs have what I would call slightly premature wear which has now stopped since leaving that bay. I have been cleaning and monitoring. The corrosion on the chain has ceased but the damage is done. Unless the fault is intermittent it must be environmental.
I was watching Gone with the Wynns sailing their brand new Cat and had problems with the bonding system it caused corrosion so much metal, Chain ,shafts, propellers, rudders, eyelets etc etc. it has been months since they took it back to factory service representative.
We still have things to finish off on the boat and SXM has tax free imports, is very easy to enter with a dog (many places require a pet permit application in advance) and had easy access to chandlers. Once we're done here we will look at where we want to go purely for cruising purposes :)
@@travelsketch Good points. You can usually get "yacht in transit waivers" but they're a hassle. I used to island hop with a charter business out of the BVI, my old boss used to lecture the guests on "next island itis" the desire to rush on to the next place without taking the time to appreciate the one you're at
We were anchored in Scotland Bay, Trinidad, for several weeks and found significant surface rust stains on our Ultra anchor, swivel and Chomax ( made in Germany) SS chain. I contacted, Ultra, they said this can happen in bays where a lot of metal and iron deposits are. It doesn’t surprise that was the case, there was a large US navel presence during WW II. Furthermore, there is still a fair amount of gas and oil production going on in the area. In any event, I reversed the chain and polished off the rust on every link. I did not experience the level of pitting that was on your video. Ultra was nice enough to send a replacement swivel under warranty.
Gone with the Wynns podcast the title was "we had to leave our boat" it was 2 months ago, a lot of the symptoms look similar to what u have found, other signs of electrical discharge they had found on there boat might point u towards your problem, there where electrical engineers in their comments from memory.
Shipping and packaging size is a key factor in the design of anchors. Manufacturers utilize a multi piece bolt together design to reduce packaging size. You could have the anchor welded together, which would eliminate the need for bolts, and you would never have to worry about parts of the anchor falling off.
my guess is you got ripped off and someone sold you some cheap chain (not what you thought you were buying). Is there a way to verify it? Isn't there a warranty?
@@travelsketch I wasn't implying to lie. I thought it was a defect of some sort. Galvanic corrosion is a real pain! I guess now you know to check for it on your boat or it can ruin multiple systems.
@@anthonyfrattalone9937 This wasn't galvanic corrosion, this was a current through the stainless steel anchoring components causing them to degrade at a rapid rate. It stopped at the windlass which is aluminium and coated brass/bronze (unsure) which is crazy.
@@trentspencer7991 oh i see. so more of a stray current situation. i watched a video by nigel calder once on youtube about how to test for the presence of these. i assume you know all about it now, but recommend his videos on it if you want to learn more. thanks for the video and repliies!
@ I’ve owned 9 new boats (both sail and power) and I have had a punchlist/warranty work on all. In fact I bought one catamaran boat in France and had the rudder drop 24 hours out in the Bay of Biscay……You talk about my blood pressure going from 120 to 220…..lol…..I have learned with all the boats (this is a generic statement), until you can put behind all warranty work and move on from that, you will never be able to enjoy the coat and cruising. I know fiscally you are in the red (by a lot), but settle it as quick as you can…..
0 volts AC/DC windlass to chain anchored in ground, isolated from each other. Ran a separate cable to everything and tested. All zero volts to chain. These tests were done in two other anchorages.
there are many grades of stainless steel, some rust in some waters, salt, fresh, acidic etc, one type of stainless will never suit all conditions, A2 AKA 304 or 8/18th is regarded as a good saltwater stainless (if my memory is working correctly) it is very anti-corrosion and very anti-wear, it is expensive but the best is never cheap,
We bought the best we thought. It was most probably due to dock lighting or a nearby earth fault. There is no AC or DC voltage from the windlass to the anchored chain when it is isolated from the windlass. If he issue is sporadic, we are monitoring and have not had a repeat.
@travelsketch *Can't Believe How Well Rose Obeys To Go Swim & Jumps in The Water...! Too Cute & Adorable 😍 Much Love To You 4...Be Safe ; Take Care & ENJOY....Was Looking At The 10 Top Catamarans 4 2025 ? WOW !!!*
Note: try future post with happy positives and let go the negatives. As you can see with your following and time online you hauled have much better numbers. Focus on positive!
I focus on trying to share the reality of our experience as we believe transparency and honesty are important. Conciously or unconciously, people watching the channel form various opinions on equipment, the model of boat, cruising grounds etc, so while it's not always happy days or positive experiences, being authentic and real rather than hiding things and creating a false representation of our story is important to us.
Unfortunately stainless steel is no longer stainless steel if it comes out of China. I had a stainless steel anchor that had a rust spot on the anchor neck and couldn't be polished out. They replaced it under warranty. Just a cheap idea that might work bang a small shaft anode on the chain down near the anchor, that should slow down the corrosion till you work out what is going on. Good luck and don't stop fighting till the fight is done. You have survived hell now these things are almost at an end.
In this case there was an electric current applied to the chain. The chain shown is a duplex 318LN cromox anchor chain fully produced, tested and approved in Germany.
@@FranzWälder-i2u Thank you for the ongoing support. Many of these people have supported the channel through the long hell of trying to get this boat rectified by commenting each week, the thanks is not directed at the opinions on current subject of the chain. We are still in this altercation with Leopard/Robertson and Caine even now.
Most probably due to dock lighting or a nearby earth fault. There is no AC or DC voltage from the windlass to the anchored chain when it is isolated from the windlass. If he issue is sporadic, we are monitoring and have not had a repeat.
@travelsketch yeah that's absolutely possible and most likely. I've been watching you guys go though hell and to see what's happening now really sucks. Wish I was in a better position to help more but trying and working my hardest right now to get on the water myself. But I am super happy to see y'all finally back on the water.
Just check that NOTHING and I mean nothing is earthed to the vessel Everything MUST BE INSULATED RETURN !! Alternators starter motors sensors etc etc etc
everything is earthed, rudders saildrives etc. it is how the boat was built. We tested 0V with Victron installer distributor themselves AC or DC before launch to an earth stake.
@@travelsketch Ok I got that BUT NOTHING electrical should be earthed to the vessel NOTHING at all The starter motors for example should have a positive cable and also a negative cable and not be earth through the engine Every sensor etc MUST have a power supply and and earth IE 2 wires to everything and terminate at the batteries Same goes for a generator it must be what is known as insulated return. If a gen is not wired correctly it would cause the corrosion as seen on your chain
Don't use all chain and you won't have the issue all you need is enough chain to weigh down your boat according to the weather and water depth use shackles and add more chain when conditions require it use a rope to break the possibility of electrolytic galvanic corrosion. It is 100% impossible to occur if the chain is not electrically connected back to the boat there can be no voltage difference to drive this reaction.
Stainless rusts very easily as any boat owner knows. It's a poor metal for underwater. The grade of stainless they have is 318LN also known as 2205. It's the best performing underwater stainless. All stainless steel is poor underwater or in other low oxygen environments, particularly in elevated temperatures, and around chlorides. It's why your local swimming pool pays big money for titanium heat exchangers and not stainless steel units.
Ouch, my sailing friend. W.T.F. I understand who wears the pants on your vessel. Come on, dude. It's your boat. Leave the hen at the next port. You would enjoy sailing so much more solo around the world. I hope you are doing well? I don't know how you can deal with her everyday?
China delivers much better quality in ANYTHING than e.g. the u.s.a. these days. I would never buy anything made in the u.s., have been buying a lot made in China and very satisfied with the Chinese quality. U.s. gear does not even last a year, it usually breaks when you look at it and is very often a health hazard.
fifty years boating I've never seen stainless chain do that. its quite unusual. that stuff lasts forever. it looks like manufacturer seconds or manufacturing error. its extremely strange to corrode in that way. its like there's some kind of crystalline failure. if you cut through is it all one material or is it apparently plated? if it seems plated its not stainless steel. is it 316 stamped? premature wear too. it needs a metallurgist examination in a lab to determine what that cause is. I have never seen stray current do that to stainless. it looks like sub standard perhaps Chinese manufactured. inox chain won't do that. I have dived and replaced mooring chains and seen stainless steel chain in Australia in salt water for a decade in better condition and that's in a harbour where there are lots of stray currents all the time that dissolve zinc in six months. really feel quite sorry for you, its not caused by you
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The stainless steel products are NOT poor quality as some are suggesting. Represented in my anchor and bridle system are Cromox, Wichard, OEM shackles, a Mantus anchor and swivel on the bridle, a piece of US stainless chain. All brand parts were stamped and from official sources. It stands to reason that if some of these parts had always been on there and never pitted and the remaining parts are now not pitting further the issue was environmental and not emanating from the hull or a product defect. There is junk in the soil there but I doubt that would cause this level of rapid and extreme corrosion. It must have been power from a house/dock. Further this issue stopped at the windlass due to resistance and it being isolated.
Stray current in the water around docks has been known to eat completely through propeller shafts.
Correct. In this case there was electric current applied to the chain. Our cromox chains, made in Germany out of 318LN duplex material, are fully tested in-house in our Lloyd's Register certificated test laboratory and salt spray chamber as well as by many anchor chain testers around the globe.
Try to get 300ft of galvanized hi-test chain for your main anchor, keep the ss chain for short term anchoring only.
If you think its happening when the anchor is in the water try fitting a sacrificial zinc near the anchor and see how quick it degrades. Stainless is far from bullet proof on anchoring systems. At least galvanized steel chain and anchors have zinc protection built in.
We had a 46 foot hi tensile masthead sloop we built from scratch about 40 years ago.
She’s still around and in good nick.
Apart from zinc bolted onto the prop shaft when at anchor we used two zinc blocks bow and stern.
Zinc block was square in shape with a hole in the middle. Stainless cable wrapped through the middle etc was wrapped on the stainless bow and stern piping.
Occasionally it needed freshening up with a wire brush.
Electric current, like in this case, applied to an anchor chain will damage every chain material within days. Accurate isolation is key.
I do have a Waelder 10 mm Chain made in Germany made from doublex stainless steel for almost 20 years in the Caribbean see and no corrosion. All other chains of lesser quality will corrode in the warm waters. Take a magnet and test the chain if it is complete free of magnetism
The chain is partially magnetic but so are other marine grade components we have. I'm not sure if the magnet test is 100% a reliable gauge?
@@travelsketch 316 stainless is very non magnetic. 318 duplex is very noticeably magnetic. I have Ketten Walder 318 10mm chain on my boat. They do sell 316 chain with their mark on them also. Their rep told me a magnet should stick to 318 chain, but just fall off 316 chain. And yes, 316 is not appropriate for warm water, it's PREN is too low. Double check what your chain actually is, it's possible you have a Cromox chain that is only 316.
It is meant to be 318LN chain so that makes sense. Cromox hasn't got back to us yet other than to acknowledge receipt of the email.
We are very happy to hear such positiv long-term experience! Resistance butt welding without additional material, ideal raw material, correct passivation, and frequent testing are required.
@@travelsketch Our sales team will contact you today. Your chain is made out of tested 318LN duplex material.
Electrical leakage on the windlass motor, a reasonably simple way around this is a high current relay on the negative side of the windlass supply activated before and after use, same with the starter motors on your main and genset. Realistically all the electrical ancillaries should be above earth with no chassis negative connections.
We are going to look at total isolation of the windlass if we replace the stainless steel chain with the same in future to reduce risk in the event of an electrical fault.
The windlass has a positive isolation point and relays. (it was + isolated at the time) Now it will have manual switches on all cables to the unit. The windlass suffered zero corrosion. I intend to isolate it completely to remove chance of future issue if a component on the yacht fails.
Thanks! Interesting you just see it on the anchor and anchor chain. My experience is one would see it on most all the stainless on the cat. So, I'm with you...the bay but very unusual.
Thanks for the support, these videos are not free to make so it goes a long way.
She DOES CARE!!! She wants comfort you!! ❤❤❤
She is such a good girl 🥰🥰 You should have seen her as a puppy, the cutest thing!
I learnt a lot from the stainless chain guru interviewed by you tube channel - Sailing Fair Isle - episode Anchoring 101.
316 stainless will corrode in warm waters. They advise using 318 duplex stainless in tropics.
That is what we are meant to have.
And when I pointed exactly that out to the idiot from Fair Isle he banned me from his channel. Moron.
Tested 318LN Duplex material is the choice for warm waters. E-polished to get the most out of the material including less tangling and less adhesion of dirt.
Sorry to hear you are having more problems. You might want to check out wire connectors for good tight connections. Look for wires in the bulge area. You might want to ask gone with the wind sailing you tube couple if they have any answers about there boat with the same issues.
I think the same chain corrosion happened to the Wynns new HH catamaran. It was traced to a faulty water pump causing the stray current.
At least you found it before drifting onto another boat or washed ashore. Some times surprised that anchors don't have a sacrificial anode. Then a casual look will indicate galvanic problems.
Once we are confident the issue is resolved we will be discussing the value of an anode with respective manufacturers.
What a nightmare you guys have endured.
What was the marina you guys stayed at in Trinidad
It's been the worst experience of our lives and particularly for Trent, that says alot.
The yard we were at is Power Boats - are you looking for a haul out spot?
For what it's worth, RUclipsrs, consider the advice of this 74 year-old long time cruiser. Forget all of glitter of expensive and complicated cruising sailboats unless you are a marine engineer and enjoy dealing with things like this.
There is no easy way out. Now I'm involved in it all I have a pretty good idea. I get your point. I do have an engineering background fortunately. Having a basic and simplistic boat does not allow for remote area cruising. It requires tech and understanding to balance watermaking with power etc. I keep the systems as simple and compartmentalized as possible. Since warranty approval and recognition I have torn out a bunch of garbage work and redone it.
I wonder how it would have been with Galvanized chain and anchor in the same conditions. in tens of thousands of miles of cruising I have never had this happen. But never anchored near DC underwater lights from houses either.
Check your thru hull's and seacocks. The current could impact those if they are metal.
Marelon, the damage is localised to the chain and anchor bridle.
You can buy anchor chain anodes
Hi Guys
So sorry to hear about your new troubles. We have a 1999 46 foot Bavaria and have owned it for some 15 years, and we have sailed it all around the Med. The boat has 10 mm German made stainless steel (Inox) chain that is now some 25 years old…..We totally love it. No rusting, no corrosion, flops down in anchor locker, and mud and weed seem to just slide off it. Our chain is high quality German made stainless.
Sadly, there is a lot of pure rubbish ss chain that is sold as German made chain, but is actually just packaged in Europe but made in Asia. I am sure the Chinese will have the best ss in a very short time, but currently I will never buy Chinese made ss chain or standing rigging. When we re-rigged in Turkey a few years back, I insisted on going to the workshop, and looking at the packaging. The rigging company was very accommodating, as they also had very bad experience in the past with Asian made ss rigging wire.
You may also have stray current issues here. There are two schools of thought here. Bond or Insulate. Each camp has very good arguments. However in my 60 odd years of boating life I always insulate, never bond. That is my personal choice. I have never had electrolysis issues in any of my boats. However, I have seen lots of electrolysis issues in bonded boats.
Do lots of personal research……Good luck. J
Thanks for the comment, yes when you own a yacht you must be an expert in everything and take nothing for granted.
Everyone needs a Rose. She warms my heart and makes me smile everytime I see her. ❤
Thanks for sharing.
We always tell her she was the bestest puppy in the puppy patch 🥰 The first time Trent met her she leapt off a 1ft ledge at 8 weeks old, ran up and savaged his shoelace - he knew from that moment she was the troublemaker for us 😂
People don't realize how important a corrosion free and tight the bonding system needs to be. You can destroy a whole lot of expensive gear very fast.
The issue does not seem to emanate from the hull.
that anchor sustained a LOT of current, wow
Yes very scary. We even considered if the anchor somehow caught an illegal cable underwater in the soil.
Woo! yea its eating away!
Eaten up by a tungsten caterpillar 😵
Dc to ac inverter.. microwave etc. Are always overlooked.. checked neutral earth
Yes but we have almost zero volts windlass to chain under all circumstances we can think of and the corrosion has stopped as far as we can tell now after moving.
Trent said he checked these but thanks for the feedback :)
SS needs a constant source of water to give it oxygen. If it doesn't get it, the saltwater interaction with the SS will create an acid which will eat away at the metal. This is called crevice corrosion. This is why I don't understand why cruisers use SS anchor and chains. Day/weekend sailors have no problem using SS because their gear isn't in the water much. Cruisers who have their gear down months at a time, well, it is a big chance they are going to get crevice corrosion on either the chain or the anchor as they can get buried in mud or silt which prevents fresh flow of water around it.
Why has it stopped now and only occurred for around a week?
@@travelsketch Maybe that week everything was buried good but other times the wind was strong enough to move the chain around keeping it from being covered for long. I'm not saying this is absolutely what happened, but it can happen with SS.
Yet another expensive nightmare on this boat? Who woulda thought eh. This boat is cursed. btw why is it that Trent dude does bugger all and gets the fun jobs while the other 2 are doing all the work? who woulda thought he's "broken" as you put it and the other dude is in work mode, like always
Do you have a silver silver chloride?
Coming in the post.
Davit question. When they strengthened it, did they increase bolt size at bottom it hinges on?
No, but in St Martin now. You're welcome to come and copy the system. Easier to explain in person.
You need to inspect your sail drives, they could have been compromised by the electrolysis. The Sailing Dauntless channel had new sail drives destroyed in about a week with a stray current issue!!!!!!
They are fine. Only items contacting the chain were compromised as far as we can tell.
A voltmeter from ground to the anchor chain . Stored and then at anchor .
0.5V DC which is what all the stainless is to sea water and millivolts AC, we tested all that and ran appliances etc.
@travelsketch That's perfectly okay in that it's the sort of data I've repeatedly noted in marinas
Good advice I did that. SS rudder when bonding removed is SS and gave the same DC reading in the seawater as the chain and anchor around 0.9VDC Boat has 0.2VDC which offsets the chain down to 0.5VDC which the chain produces the same 0.9V as the rudder.
looks fine to me
yeeehaaa
We de-bond as much as possible on our cat. Ground isolation prevents so many corrosion issues. Anchor windlass is isolated on both +ve and -ve. Engines are isolated on +ve and -ve. All thru hulls composite. Rudder hydraulics (conductive) isolated. Rapid corrosion needs a circuit. No circuit, no dissimilar metal corrosion. We do not bond AC Gnd to DC -ve. AC Gnd is for shore, not for boat engines.
Best and simplest solution- agreed
Isolation switches are in the mail.
So sad about this! We are currently rebuilding our catamaran - so many ups and downs, but such a thrill!
Less thrills and more boat usage is what we would rather.
@travelsketch hahaaa yes agreed!
The only that work in hot saltwater is 318 made I Germany and is very expensive
318LN is what we are mean to have.
@@travelsketcheven 318 or other duplex alloys are not fantastic in water over 28⁰-30⁰C. I have looked at buying Chromox chain but I can get at least two galvanized chains for the price of one Chromox and it's just less fragile and less prone to sudden problems. I don't really trust stainless under the water.
cromox s the best
are you sure you actually got cromox, was it in a branded box?
Yes from Cromox themselves.
You can't catch a break 😔
Not an expert - but how far were you from other boats and the underwater lights in the bay? Less than 50m?
Yep, in that first period we would have been within 50m of the houses/underwater lights. The only other boats were power boats but they all tie onto their own docks or moorings, they don't anchor.
What is so wrong with galvanised G70 chain that is half the price but more than twice the strength of stainless steel with far fewer failure-modes, that makes people still choose stainless? I can understand that it flakes better and sloughs of mud easier but when it comes to a real blow I'd be worrying far more. Working Load Limits, ultimate strength and the ability to take side-loading are of critical importance and G70 wins hands-down on them all at the same size. Sure, you can increase the diameter of chain but that places far more weight right up front which will compromise performance and even safety in a bad seaway. People seem naturally to equate price with quality, but in this case its necessary to research the details with great thoroughness.
Its difficult to get thick gal G70.
KW318LN is same strength rating as G70.
That said, we went with G43 at 1/5 or less cost.
You might want to check your zincs as there is going to be another end of this 'battery' somewhere in the equation, especially the ones on your sail drives
current from underwater lights in the bay hmm>, current flows to ground, your anchor chain would be an unlikely ground for a source on the island. The reason this happens in marinas is because your boat is connected to the same ground as the source of the stray currents, via the shore power cable. galvanic corrosion is like a battery and in needs a closed circuit to run, it only occurs to the metals in the solution so I would not expect to see it dry side. I would suggest your investigations reconnected a loose grounding to the chain or windlass.
The zincs have what I would call slightly premature wear which has now stopped since leaving that bay. I have been cleaning and monitoring. The corrosion on the chain has ceased but the damage is done. Unless the fault is intermittent it must be environmental.
I was watching Gone with the Wynns sailing their brand new Cat and had problems with the bonding system it caused corrosion so much metal, Chain ,shafts, propellers, rudders, eyelets etc etc. it has been months since they took it back to factory service representative.
Why the rush to St. Marten? Antigua, Barbuda, St. Kitts and Nevis are all worth seeing. From St. Marten there's Saba and St. Barts not to be missed
We still have things to finish off on the boat and SXM has tax free imports, is very easy to enter with a dog (many places require a pet permit application in advance) and had easy access to chandlers. Once we're done here we will look at where we want to go purely for cruising purposes :)
@@travelsketch Good points. You can usually get "yacht in transit waivers" but they're a hassle.
I used to island hop with a charter business out of the BVI, my old boss used to lecture the guests on "next island itis" the desire to rush on to the next place without taking the time to appreciate the one you're at
Sailing Aquarius latest episode did a test for stray current leakage. It might be helpful.
We were anchored in Scotland Bay, Trinidad, for several weeks and found significant surface rust stains on our Ultra anchor, swivel and Chomax ( made in Germany) SS chain. I contacted, Ultra, they said this can happen in bays where a lot of metal and iron deposits are. It doesn’t surprise that was the case, there was a large US navel presence during WW II. Furthermore, there is still a fair amount of gas and oil production going on in the area.
In any event, I reversed the chain and polished off the rust on every link. I did not experience the level of pitting that was on your video. Ultra was nice enough to send a replacement swivel under warranty.
What Tynan's initial assumption was. He has learned to communicate better.
Gone with the Wynns podcast the title was "we had to leave our boat" it was 2 months ago, a lot of the symptoms look similar to what u have found, other signs of electrical discharge they had found on there boat might point u towards your problem, there where electrical engineers in their comments from memory.
It is the same thing but I believe our current came from the dock to the anchor, not the boat to the ground. Testing continues.
Shipping and packaging size is a key factor in the design of anchors. Manufacturers utilize a multi piece bolt together design to reduce packaging size.
You could have the anchor welded together, which would eliminate the need for bolts, and you would never have to worry about parts of the anchor falling off.
Trent did consider this but we have not been near a good enough welder yet.
my guess is you got ripped off and someone sold you some cheap chain (not what you thought you were buying). Is there a way to verify it? Isn't there a warranty?
The evidence doesn't point to manufacturing defect so it would be unfair to suggest or claim warranty.
@@travelsketch I wasn't implying to lie. I thought it was a defect of some sort. Galvanic corrosion is a real pain! I guess now you know to check for it on your boat or it can ruin multiple systems.
@@anthonyfrattalone9937 This wasn't galvanic corrosion, this was a current through the stainless steel anchoring components causing them to degrade at a rapid rate. It stopped at the windlass which is aluminium and coated brass/bronze (unsure) which is crazy.
@@trentspencer7991 oh i see. so more of a stray current situation. i watched a video by nigel calder once on youtube about how to test for the presence of these. i assume you know all about it now, but recommend his videos on it if you want to learn more. thanks for the video and repliies!
Look for stray current ….it is possibly the cause
Have been, will dig deeper soon. Not the primary issue though.
So is all your claims against Leopard FINAL?
No, Trent is dealing with them in the background.
@ I’ve owned 9 new boats (both sail and power) and I have had a punchlist/warranty work on all. In fact I bought one catamaran boat in France and had the rudder drop 24 hours out in the Bay of Biscay……You talk about my blood pressure going from 120 to 220…..lol…..I have learned with all the boats (this is a generic statement), until you can put behind all warranty work and move on from that, you will never be able to enjoy the coat and cruising. I know fiscally you are in the red (by a lot), but settle it as quick as you can…..
Stay clear of those winch cables. RUclips won't allow me to post a pic of my hand. Too gruesome.
Not catching many breaks. I hope your fortunes will change. Soon.
Use a softer sacrificial anode until you can find the source.
Big zinc is good zinc best money spent.
We are not using an anode yet as we are monitoring if the problem has gone almost daily. The anode may mask a flair up.
Stray current on the chain…..probably from the windless. Check the ground.
0 volts AC/DC windlass to chain anchored in ground, isolated from each other. Ran a separate cable to everything and tested. All zero volts to chain. These tests were done in two other anchorages.
Let me know when you get here. We can swap lep 45 stories.
We arrived in SXM a few days ago, just getting our bearings and learning what's here at the moment - you?
@@travelsketch I keep my 45 ShowTime at Port De Plaisance marina. I'm here now.
@@travelsketch this could be great “content” ? 😢😅
I am happy for people to have an avenue to tell their story if they like.
there are many grades of stainless steel, some rust in some waters, salt, fresh, acidic etc, one type of stainless will never suit all conditions, A2 AKA 304 or 8/18th is regarded as a good saltwater stainless (if my memory is working correctly) it is very anti-corrosion and very anti-wear, it is expensive but the best is never cheap,
We bought the best we thought. It was most probably due to dock lighting or a nearby earth fault. There is no AC or DC voltage from the windlass to the anchored chain when it is isolated from the windlass. If he issue is sporadic, we are monitoring and have not had a repeat.
@@travelsketchonly DC can cause this. If you think about it one half of the AC cycle is removing material only for the other half to replace it.
@@deerfootnz How does it occur on a dock then due to shore power faults and lack of galvanic isolator in marinas?
😮😢 *O GOSH Guys...?!!* 😢😮
Soul destroying...
@travelsketch *Can't Believe How Well Rose Obeys To Go Swim & Jumps in The Water...! Too Cute & Adorable 😍 Much Love To You 4...Be Safe ; Take Care & ENJOY....Was Looking At The 10 Top Catamarans 4 2025 ? WOW !!!*
Note: try future post with happy positives and let go the negatives. As you can see with your following and time online you hauled have much better numbers. Focus on positive!
I focus on trying to share the reality of our experience as we believe transparency and honesty are important. Conciously or unconciously, people watching the channel form various opinions on equipment, the model of boat, cruising grounds etc, so while it's not always happy days or positive experiences, being authentic and real rather than hiding things and creating a false representation of our story is important to us.
Unfortunately stainless steel is no longer stainless steel if it comes out of China. I had a stainless steel anchor that had a rust spot on the anchor neck and couldn't be polished out. They replaced it under warranty. Just a cheap idea that might work bang a small shaft anode on the chain down near the anchor, that should slow down the corrosion till you work out what is going on. Good luck and don't stop fighting till the fight is done. You have survived hell now these things are almost at an end.
Thanks for the support. We are very tired, appreciate the comment.
In this case there was an electric current applied to the chain. The chain shown is a duplex 318LN cromox anchor chain fully produced, tested and approved in Germany.
@@FranzWälder-i2u Thank you for the ongoing support. Many of these people have supported the channel through the long hell of trying to get this boat rectified by commenting each week, the thanks is not directed at the opinions on current subject of the chain. We are still in this altercation with Leopard/Robertson and Caine even now.
If you guys did not have bad luck you wouldn’t have any luck at all, so sad to see this problem, but many good suggestions in the comments.
Very helpful viewers :)
Sounds like you guys may have some stray current to
Most probably due to dock lighting or a nearby earth fault. There is no AC or DC voltage from the windlass to the anchored chain when it is isolated from the windlass. If he issue is sporadic, we are monitoring and have not had a repeat.
@travelsketch yeah that's absolutely possible and most likely. I've been watching you guys go though hell and to see what's happening now really sucks. Wish I was in a better position to help more but trying and working my hardest right now to get on the water myself. But I am super happy to see y'all finally back on the water.
You guys were really disrespected.
Stray voltage can be a real bitch to figure out... But nothing that can't be solved...
The worst thing you can do is let MONEY stress you out!
The loss of opportunity, time and huge amounts of money make us feel subconsciously sick and there is not much you can do about it.
I'm afraid only those with loads of disposable money are the ones who can say this. Money, for 'normal', people is defacto a huge stressor.
or your bonding is shit not bonded look at the engine bay this is just the start
Everything exposed to water is bonded.
Just check that NOTHING and I mean nothing is earthed to the vessel Everything MUST BE INSULATED RETURN !! Alternators starter motors sensors etc etc etc
everything is earthed, rudders saildrives etc. it is how the boat was built. We tested 0V with Victron installer distributor themselves AC or DC before launch to an earth stake.
@@travelsketch Ok I got that BUT NOTHING electrical should be earthed to the vessel NOTHING at all The starter motors for example should have a positive cable and also a negative cable and not be earth through the engine Every sensor etc MUST have a power supply and and earth IE 2 wires to everything and terminate at the batteries Same goes for a generator it must be what is known as insulated return. If a gen is not wired correctly it would cause the corrosion as seen on your chain
Don't use all chain and you won't have the issue all you need is enough chain to weigh down your boat according to the weather and water depth use shackles and add more chain when conditions require it use a rope to break the possibility of electrolytic galvanic corrosion. It is 100% impossible to occur if the chain is not electrically connected back to the boat there can be no voltage difference to drive this reaction.
Piss poor quality Chinese stainless steel
In this case there was electric current applied to the chain. The chain shown is a duplex 318LN cromox anchor chain fully tested and approved.
All components from all brands from the anchor to windlass suffered damage due to the electrical current including Wichard and Mantus.
You bought a 10K gold plated chain with a 18K stamp. Stainless steel doesn't rust.
Stainless rusts very easily as any boat owner knows. It's a poor metal for underwater. The grade of stainless they have is 318LN also known as 2205. It's the best performing underwater stainless. All stainless steel is poor underwater or in other low oxygen environments, particularly in elevated temperatures, and around chlorides. It's why your local swimming pool pays big money for titanium heat exchangers and not stainless steel units.
Ouch, my sailing friend. W.T.F.
I understand who wears the pants on your vessel. Come on, dude. It's your boat. Leave the hen at the next port. You would enjoy sailing so much more solo around the world. I hope you are doing well? I don't know how you can deal with her everyday?
Looks like a Chinese chain and Anchor, never get Chinese gear, it is only good for a year if you're lucky.
China delivers much better quality in ANYTHING than e.g. the u.s.a. these days. I would never buy anything made in the u.s., have been buying a lot made in China and very satisfied with the Chinese quality. U.s. gear does not even last a year, it usually breaks when you look at it and is very often a health hazard.
No Chinese and ALL SS components attached to the chain failed. This strongly suggests that the product is not the issue.
fifty years boating I've never seen stainless chain do that. its quite unusual. that stuff lasts forever. it looks like manufacturer seconds or manufacturing error. its extremely strange to corrode in that way. its like there's some kind of crystalline failure. if you cut through is it all one material or is it apparently plated? if it seems plated its not stainless steel. is it 316 stamped? premature wear too. it needs a metallurgist examination in a lab to determine what that cause is. I have never seen stray current do that to stainless. it looks like sub standard perhaps Chinese manufactured. inox chain won't do that. I have dived and replaced mooring chains and seen stainless steel chain in Australia in salt water for a decade in better condition and that's in a harbour where there are lots of stray currents all the time that dissolve zinc in six months. really feel quite sorry for you, its not caused by you
Thank you, see the pinned comment it adds detail.
Thanks for the support