Rebutting Genesis Apologetics - 4th of 7 Alleged Myths
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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I am addressing this pseudoscience apologetics video, "Debunking the Seven Myths about the Bible, Genesis, and Noah's Flood":
• Debunking the Seven My...
Here is my discussion with Paster Bob Enyart
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As an Audiologist the ear is an inefficient junk heap that can only be explained throughout a process of evolution. If it was designed the designer should be fired.
Do you have some visualization how a semi efficient ear would be build?
Wait until this ear guy finds about how wholly inefficient our reproductive system is. 😁
(Just teasing, doc)
@@dr.floridamanphd it sure is inefficient. Sometimes it does not work, sometimes it does not work and sometimes it does not work, they are not even mutually exclusive and can all be found at the same time. You can have triple baby blocker. Impotens, with a steril man and woman, and they might think that it is because he can not get a boner that is stopping them for shooting out babies.
You study Audi cars? But I suspect they were designed. Agree though - badly slapped together junk, right?
@@Fanny-Fanny Are you suggesting Audi designers are expected to be god-like?
I was at a zoo with a Creationist once and we were marveling at a grizzly bear. At one point in the conversation he said "but we humans still has dominion over all life. That was God's promise to Adam." I replied "why don't you jump in there and show that bear who truly has dominion". He shut right up
Ain't no dominion without our weapons and tools lol
@@YokaiX all the weapons and tools Adam had lmao
I find it striking that proof exists about Jesus from unbiased sources outside of the Bible. Some of these writers have provided direct evidence of Christians, while others have provided indirect evidence of the existence of Jesus and of His crucifixion. The writings of these writers offer a peek into the current events taking place from the late first century to the late second century. I find difficulty in downplaying or explaining away these writer's writings on the account of the prestige and social position they held, and the disdain illustrated in some of their writing. I only provided writing for four writers and the remaining five writers are included in my table chart located on my channel.
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus, Phlegon, Thallus, Julius Africanus, Flavius Josephus
Tacitus, The Greatest Roman historian and senator
Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.
He then describes the torture of Christians:
Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man’s cruelty, that they were being destroyed.
Mara Bar-Serapion,
He was a Syrian philosopher, who wrote a letter to his son sometime after AD 73. There is only one manuscript of his letter in existence and preserved in the British Museum.
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."
Lucian,
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. … You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains their contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
Pliny the Younger,
Is another valuable historical source for information on Jesus and the early Church. Pliny was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia, located in Asia Minor. In the year 112 AD, he wrote to the Emperor Trajan, asking how he should deal with those in his region who have been accused of being Christians.
In the letter, Pliny describes the practices of these “criminals”:
“They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food-but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”
Have you wondered if there was any “proof” of the miracles of Jesus, outside the Bible (and outside of the writings of believers)? There are documents in which these writers provided us with evidence that Jesus worked miracles, but in writing, intended to downplay belief in such miracles.
The first comes from the Babylonian Talmud 43a. Babylonian Talmud (late first or second century AD) Babylonian Sanhedrin43a-b “On the eve of the Passover they hanged Yeshu and the herald went before him for forty days saying [Yeshu] is going forth to be stoned in that he hate practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel.
Here Jesus is accused of sorcery, in obvious parallel with the charge leveled in Matthew 12:22-23. The writer of the Talmud does not agree that Jesus worked bona fide miracles, but he reports that he did things which, to the enemy of Jesus could only be written off as sorcery.
In the very early century AD Jewish literature, in "tHul 2:22-23" it is reported that healings were done in the name of Jesus. So we have indirect confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus and of his working of public miracles-only charging that the miracles were worked by Satan, not God.
The point I would make from this material in the Jewish Talmud from the late first century is that it proves that Jesus was a person they felt they had to deal with and that it was sufficiently common knowledge that he worked signs and wonders that they felt they had to address this by claiming that Jesus did his miracles by the power of Satan (sorcery).
Does this “prove” that Jesus worked miracles? Maybe or maybe not.
What it proves is that many in his day were convinced that he worked miracles and that his enemies were aware of sufficient positive evidence of this that they felt they needed to explain it.
In summary, the request for “proof” in written documents that Jesus did in fact work miracles from non-believers is, logically, a very high bar indeed. We can assume that most of those who witnessed his miracles either came to believe in him or found ways to explain away what they saw. In fact, I believe that it is striking that we have these two documented examples of non-Christians feeling the need to explain what seems to have been common knowledge that there was much reason to believe Jesus worked miracles.
This does indeed corroborate the accounts of miracles and wonders performed by Jesus in the Bible.
Well for one at a zoo if you do that you'll get kicked out. However if you knew what that meant you'll know man can have dominion over all by simply vibrating at a higher level and not showing fear to an animal. Ask Mike Tyson. This man said a world wide flood never happened, guess he doesn't know about the meteorite that reshaped the entire world that caused the dinosaurs to die. Pangea ring a bell?
Anyone believing this emo kid from highschool advice should do the research themselves. Dressed in black, long hair, black background ok guy go cry in a corner or whatever goth people do lmfao.
Dr Dan: If creationists were honest, they'd read the rest of the paper.
There are two kinds of creationist: Dishonest ones, and soon-to-be former ones. As soon as they decide to be honest, they've done half the work towards leaving creationism.
Even rats have morals. I had 24 of them in my life and i have seen behavior that made my heart melt. One rats stored food for his passed away friend. He didnt understand that he was gone and expected him back. He wouldnt touch that food or let anyone touch it. They are so loving and they know who was nice to them and who wasnt
Last winter, a lost kitten found her way into my air vent. After fishing her out of the vent, she was starving and terrified. My cat (a male of about 12 years old, that cannot possibly be related to the kitten) immediately started cleaning her, guided her to his food bowl, stood back and patiently waited while the kitten ate. As well as always keeping her in line of sight when she got comfortable enough to get adventurous.
He still always lets her eat before him, even though they have separate food bowls now. (She was a stray and I couldn't find her a new home. And my cat has become very attached. I didn't adopt her, he did.)
Morality is emergent property of any social species. If only more humans stopped caring about being "uniquely moral" creatures and instead focused on behaving morally. (For example, if YECs would stop lying about data or deliberately misrepresenting scientific claims.)
And in a similar vein, I was on a school trip when I got a call that Violet - my rat - was looking ill, and seemed to be dying. She appeared to know it too, because despite being ill, she stayed alive for three more days until I returned home. As soon as I did, I held her, she cuddled in my lap, and died in my arms around ten minutes after I got home.
I have so many stories of animals (mine and others) displaying morals and general emotional attachment, that I often feel those things are more highly developed in animals than in humans.
Most all non-human animals are someone, a sentient being that has their own personality traits, wants and needs. I couldn't ignore this fact, and keep supporting the suffering of billions of land and sea non-human animals. We're all animals trying to survive on this mote of dust. Lets not cause unnecessary suffering in a world of suffering. Be vegan, yo!
@Jay M What an intelligent reply. 👌🏾
I almost had a hundred of them they are very smart you can even teach them sign language
Creationist: we’re too complex to have evolved from mud.
Also creationist: we were magically proofed into existence out of dust.
When people think alchemy is more plausible than cause and effect.
It makes me want to put a whole sock drawer in their stupid mouths and ask them if I have an easier time eating than they or if it's just up to "random" fucking "chance".
When they talk about their creation bs, I imagine when one says "Poofed" into existence from dust. Some deity accidentally poofs dust all over imaginary streets of gold that are in heaven. I always wondered how a god built streets of gold, but then remembered all those cities that Joshua destroyed with God laying claim to all their bling!
quote: Creationist: we’re too complex to have evolved from mud.
considering the mudbrainess of most creationists I don't think it took much evolving from mud.
@@kamion53 Primus "My name is mud" is a perfect song for a creationists mud golem spell.
@@MetallicAAlabamA have ya checked out "Conspiranoia" yet?
If my body was "intelligently designed", I'd like to speak to the manager of Customer Service Department 😒
The generalised form is a pretty versatile biped. I hope in future that humans will bring it up to better specifications. Perhaps someone should consult Musk while we're in the "window" before he makes us all unnecessary by proliferating Optimi. (That was fun)..
Aron I just want to say thank you. Your steady debunking of the apologetics I grew up tangential to is a large part of what brought me away from creationism as a ministers son, and your systematic classification of life affirmed my acceptance of evolution by giving more than enough evidence that it’s the truth of our reality. Because of you, in 6 years I have come from having no understanding of biology to wanting to go back to school to be a biologist because I’m obsessed with it. You opened a door to a whole new interest I never knew I had. So sincerely, thank you.
Your comment makes me hopeful.
Biology is the absolute best :)
:)
Biology is fascinating, I hope you do decide to study it 😊
That's amazing.
The most embarrassing thing about their videos is they claim these are college-level material.
Clearly aimed at Christian colleges, nobody else at that age is going to buy into this BS.
After the preacher couldn't answer my questions in front of the adult congregation, which were the same ones that got me kicked out of Sunday school, I didn't have to go anymore.
Like magic 🪄✨
Religious college level*
Well, it is for one of their diploma mil- sorry, ""universities"", ain't it?
@@thelord3561 taking the lords name in vain is a pretty big sin though. I don't think he's gonna like that. Plus, it's gonna make things pretty confusing in heaven if there are more than one the lord.
I know it's juvenile, but whenever someone says stuff like "Could they have all been wrong?!" I always think of the quote "Eat shit. billions of flies can't all be wrong!" and then I have to hold back a chuckle.
Can 1 billion Muslims be wrong?
Could billions of hindus be all wrong? Millions of nazis? Millions of communists? The answer is yes.
@@OsirisLord also a good one.
@@snaek2594 also don't forget Islam achieved in a life time what took Christians centuries to achieve. Islam must be the true religion it has more believers than any religion and it spread faster than any religion. Wait suddenly those don't become persuasive when it's a different religion? Weird.
"Without a real Adam, a real garden blah blah... the New Testament has nothing to stand on." Yes! He actually understands the problem, he's just reached the wrong conclusion.
Yes I think the logic, if we can call it that, then runs... "But I find the idea that the New Testament isn't true to be scary, therefore it must be true, therefore Book of Genesis must be true".
Yes, he understands the problem, but rather than address the problem he prefers to jump through hoops of fire in order to reaffirm his belief which he knows to be false.
Which is why I've come to believe we've been approaching this the wrong way by addressing Christianity. We should instead focus on debunking Judaism. Without Judaism, Christianity definitively has no basis at all (which of course already is the case, but ya know), and maybe even lsIam as well.
@@YokaiX I don't know enough about Judaism to be confident, but I understand that many Jews want Christians to stop willfully misinterpreting their holy book.
@@YokaiX actually no, Judaism and Christianity are very different in their core that despite they “sharing” the Old Testament each religion has a totally different interpretation from it.
It is quite astonishing all the outside influences and forces that had to act on this once Jewish sect to turn it on its head and do a complete 180.
" on the fourth day .he created the sun and the moon "
How can you have four days without a sun?
Anything is possible if you ignore logic and say GODDIDIT and refuse to elaborate further
their excuse is that "one day" is one rotation of the earth which is insanely eye-rolling as there would be zero frame of reference for when Earth supposedly completed one rotation. but I guess God can do whatever the story conveniently requires of him since he is supposedly...a god lol
I'd like to speak to the "intelligence" that designed my eyes as they are, requiring me to wear glasses since second grade because my near-sightedness has rendered me two times legally blind. So very fucking "intelligent".
Thank you again, Aron, for exposing these fraudulent liars for who they are. I dunno how you manage to sit through these videos without losing your mind, but you are awesome!
When that happens please ask something for me?
"What is with the proximity of the anus and vagina"?
Hi stranger. I was in a similar boat. I was told i couldnt get lasik or PRK due to a bit over -9 in both eyes with mild astigmatism. I got Implanted Contact Lenses (ICL) and it changed my life. I was in the army at the time so i got it for $0 which was a nice bonus but instantly corrected vision is a thing you might be able to actually get. You know, because science. god definitely sucks
lol yeah I too am "blessed" with eyes that don't work (enlarged retna making focus nearly impossible). That eye arguement didn't work on me even when I was a christian lol.
@Brandon Letzco hey, how did they fix your fallen arches? My youngest has really, really flat feet, but no doctor has ever said anything about it being fixable. 🥺
@@MaryAnnNytowl
Sports and outdoor shops do replacement "foot beds". you can get foot beds especially for flat feet.
If you are rich, go to a shop that does ski stuff, and they can fit you up on their ski boot machine with the correct stuff.
I use the Green, special feet ones.
PS
orthopaedic/ones from a shoe shop are stupidly expensive
"We sing, therefore we are special."
Birds: Aight, imma head out.
This video should go in a museum of skepticism. Absolutely fantastic systematic, dense critique. Well done. Again. 🤘🏻
New name for the channel?
I Love the closing comment! "I would rather be rational seeking to improve my understanding of how things really are!".
This will go in my list of memorable quotes!
Tough times all round in the UK! Drought, extreme heat, inflation and my own personal issues, so thanks Aron and co for making me smile and forget problems for a while!
Same here William, all the best to you👍🇬🇧
Just depressing times all around.That sattelite image of the desert / scorched land spreading is just miserable.
but I thought climate change was a lie? Damn ...
Don't worry, Matt Walsh doesn't understand the concept of too hot. So, it's all good.
@@DissedRedEngie Pretty sure lots of things that man doesnt understand.
39:50 I cracked up so hard when Aron said "No no show the whole image". 🤣 Like why are creationists always so deceptive? They literally cropped the picture. What happened to God hates lies? These people are just so dishonest.
Yep. They have no problem lying for their "truth" and see no irony in it.
I always love when you have Dr. Dan in the videos. He is very clear and easy to understand, while explaining things I have far less knowledge in then he has. (It is not always easy to explain things and not use jargon or "skip" steps, because they are so obvious for the one explaining.)
Creationism seems to be a question of: “the world is too complex for ME to understand, so my simplistic fairytale must be true”.
Whereas thinking people know that things can be true even if one doesn’t understand them.
A lot of times, to me at least, it seems to be an indication of a person's general sense of curiosity. Very few theists I've met seem to want to know how something works, and instead go "oh that's so mysterious, guess God did it". Almost every atheist I've met has had a well developed sense of curiosity of the world and the deeper mechanics of it.
Some people are simply too lazy to accept the burden/responsibility of understanding.
It is “easier” to accept someone else’s “explanations”.
This is what makes so many people easily manipulated and controlled... which has always been the true “purpose” of all religions.
@@bobinthewest8559 divine purpose as theyd believe
personal interpretation of the Genesis story: it was more of a prologue/tutorial to a simulation, the snake was the tutorial guide, and the choice of tree representing a choice of game mode (maybe creative/sandbox vs survival à la Minecraft).
So we could’ve had Minecraft instead of Skyrim?
I want to change the game mode.
@@dr.floridamanphd
We need more mods to come out.
@@dr.floridamanphd maybe. still trying to figure out why Lilith apparently skipped the tutorial -- speedrunner?
This shouldn't make so much sense...
Thank you Aron. This drives me crazy. DNA is a chemical not a code. We use a short hand notation (GCTA) to make it manageable. This makes it look like a code.
And I love “ evolution never stops.” All species are intermediate species.
Every individual is genetically intermediate also.
That zoom out at 40.08 shows how deliberately deceitful the "Lying for Jesus" crowd really is.
I've always found it curious how people could believe the Earth was formed only 6,000 years ago. However, that time does line up with one particular human invention: writing, in ancient Mesopotamia.
Exxxxxactly! & the “indoctrination by way of written (& spoken) stories begins..!.!.!.!”
They can believe anything when thoroughly indoctrinated and sufficiently delusional.
You're on to something, Reuben.
I love how thoroughly thought-out these videos are so any laymen can easily understand these topics. Thank you so very much for your diligence and service to uphold the truth.
Yes! You don't need a degree, but you can actually learn a fair amount.
I really enjoy these
I don't disagree with you but, those who would watch this also have to be able to be honest with themselves and their "conviction of faith"(whatever that really means) usually prevents it.
"If the bible said Jonah swallowed the whale", they'd believe it mentality.
Those mythological stories (forbidden fruit guarded by talking snake, flood-and-ark) existed before the biblical version, BUT the biblical version is the original one because R E A S O N S.
My version of an evil space empire fighting some ragtag rebels is the original one because I changed some details and made bigger claims.
BeCaUSe a BoOk sAYs
Like their argument that the devil either went back in time, or knew the future so he could copy the biblical account before it happened.
@@benarmstrong6363 - or like Paul likes to say:
🎶 For the Bible tells me so 🎶
@@Leith_Crowther the sacred tale of... Astro Conflicts
This video reminded me of something my late best friend said. He once had a plaque set up on his front door to keep religious indoctinators away, on it was " We belong to the Other People."
Thank you Aron for that memory.
If you believe in creationism I have a jolly red clad elf, an egg decorating rabbit and a tooth collecting fairy to tell you about too !
Thank you Aron for standing up for reason and discrediting superstition. There are sooooo many arguments against the omni god
Tell me more about this hare, my fine sir. My curiosity is truly piqued!
I’d love to tell you about the wonderful salvation that awaits all our hearts when we die. Have you heard of the all-powerful Keyblade?
@@JackieOwl94 lol, I've studied alot of scripture and watched alot of Christians. I don't have the patience for all that rot. I'm betting against the arrogance of mankind and taking my eternal rest someday like every other living thing on the face of this Earth has
@@NubsWithGuns So is a a good portion of New Testament
"There are sooooo many arguments against the omni god"
Indeed, but even if there wasn't a single such argument, every single arguments I've heard that was offered to support the claim that that a particular god exists was fallacious (except for a true deistic god, but that is like nihilism, who cares?) So.... in the end, doesn't matter how you look at it, the only thing we can state for certain is that according to available evidence gods are nothing but fictional characters...
So, I should demand god for a refund, my eyes always needed glasses. It looks like it wasn’t that perfect to begin with….. and I’m not alone with this…
That guy just said the chimp's genome was more complex than our own meaning that God put more thought and effort into "designing" chimps than him and i just find that hilarious
Well he did design a better eye for octopuses.
Since “intelligent design” is apparently “less than perfect”...
1) doesn’t that prove that “god” didn’t do it?
2) if god didn’t do it... who did?
3) if you still insist on believing there is a god... why would he spend so much time designing and creating “less than perfect” products? Does he have a sick and malicious sense of humor? Is he “just practicing”? Why would a “perfect god” NEED practice?
4) if there actually IS a god... and if he actually IS practicing to “perfect” his techniques...
Holy sh!+ ... I CAN’T WAIT to see what he will create once he’s got his techniques “perfected”... 😂🤣
"If this isn't true, it means god never existed, so that proves he did" LOL
Those creationists speak but it is not consistent human communication it is feelings expressions via noises disguised or mistake for language. You literally see the feeling twists behind some of the sentences. It goes from shock to feeling empty and lonely to denial and to be even prideful about the denial so that someone sticks to what makes his tummy feel nice and cozy at all costs.
Thanks Aron! I really appreciate the time, study & effort you put into this channel. I've been subscribed since the beginning yet I still look forward to each new video.
I heard Dr. Dan talking and I was worried I had blacked out and auto play took me to another video. All the same, I’m glad to see collaboration between people with different backgrounds and specialities.
Another great video. These are always a joy to watch Aron
I'm so happy you chose my music! I am just disappointed I have discovered it only now 😅
Haven't watched it yet, but just about to get started. Been waiting on the next one of these 😎
"Our hearing system proves a divine designer" Proceeds to describe what most engineers would say is a bad design. Good designs are simple and redundant - able to continue to function even if one part fails.
These people's entire series seems to be just an ad nauseum repetition of "Buh-buh-but da Buybull sez...!" And the only fitting response is, "Yeah, who gives a shit?"
I just realized, he's going to launch into a big list of "irreducibly complex" things you've already debunked a dozen times. I can't watch this right now, it's going to hurt my brain.
Yeah animals have morals, like how gorillas morn the dead. I even had a cat that if he got too agressive and hurt you, he'd go into this small cat box and stay there for about 10 minutes.
Yeah, I’ve had a parrot for the last 22 years. Like having a perpetual 3-year old.
My day is always brighter when an Aron Ra video shows up. Thank you for all you do. I live in a very small Michigan town of under 1200 with 4 churches in town, all conservative with another 5(or more) within 5 miles. I like hearing arguments I can make
Aron, THANK YOU for bringing in Dr. Dan from Creation Myths. He provided not only another person in this discussion, but such clear explanations that it was refreshing. I love all of the scientific parts, of course, but the best was when he explained how creationists have been dishonest in quote mining Ann Gibbons' paper. Kudos to you, Dan!
There will eventually be a response video where Aron Ra won't even have to make new material for it. It will just be a compilation of his rebuttals sourced and clipped from previous videos.
How would those people who didn’t know Cain, know that he had killed Abel?
Where did they get their Moses-like morality if not from Yahweh? The Bible didn’t exist.
Conclusion: Even the Bible says that morality doesn’t always come from a god.
Well God has magically carved his morality on your heart ofc. If it contradicts or is unexplained it's magic
@@hurrayboy1995 **miracles** That's the term they prefer... which is the same sht
Have you wondered if there was any “proof” of the miracles of Jesus, outside the Bible (and outside of the writings of believers)? There are documents in which these writers provided us with evidence that Jesus worked miracles, but in writing, intended to downplay belief in such miracles.
The first comes from the Babylonian Talmud 43a. Babylonian Talmud (late first or second century AD) Babylonian Sanhedrin43a-b “On the eve of the Passover they hanged Yeshu and the herald went before him for forty days saying [Yeshu] is going forth to be stoned in that he hate practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel.
Here Jesus is accused of sorcery, in obvious parallel with the charge leveled in Matthew 12:22-23. The writer of the Talmud does not agree that Jesus worked bona fide miracles, but he reports that he did things which, to the enemy of Jesus could only be written off as sorcery.
In the very early century AD Jewish literature, in "tHul 2:22-23" it is reported that healings were done in the name of Jesus. So we have indirect confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus and of his working of public miracles-only charging that the miracles were worked by Satan, not God.
The point I would make from this material in the Jewish Talmud from the late first century is that it proves that Jesus was a person they felt they had to deal with and that it was sufficiently common knowledge that he worked signs and wonders that they felt they had to address this by claiming that Jesus did his miracles by the power of Satan (sorcery).
Does this “prove” that Jesus worked miracles? Maybe or maybe not.
What it proves is that many in his day were convinced that he worked miracles and that his enemies were aware of sufficient positive evidence of this that they felt they needed to explain it.
In summary, the request for “proof” in written documents that Jesus did in fact work miracles from non-believers is, logically, a very high bar indeed. We can assume that most of those who witnessed his miracles either came to believe in him or found ways to explain away what they saw. In fact, I believe that it is striking that we have these two documented examples of non-Christians feeling the need to explain what seems to have been common knowledge that there was much reason to believe Jesus worked miracles.
This does indeed corroborate the accounts of miracles and wonders performed by Jesus in the Bible.
I find it striking that proof exists about Jesus from unbiased sources outside of the Bible. Some of these writers have provided direct evidence of Christians, while others have provided indirect evidence of the existence of Jesus and of His crucifixion. The writings of these writers offer a peek into the current events taking place from the late first century to the late second century. I find difficulty in downplaying or explaining away these writer's writings on the account of the prestige and social position they held, and the disdain illustrated in some of their writing. I only provided writing for four writers and the remaining five writers are included in my table chart located on my channel.
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus, Phlegon, Thallus, Julius Africanus, Flavius Josephus
Tacitus, The Greatest Roman historian and senator
Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.
He then describes the torture of Christians:
Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man’s cruelty, that they were being destroyed.
Mara Bar-Serapion,
He was a Syrian philosopher, who wrote a letter to his son sometime after AD 73. There is only one manuscript of his letter in existence and preserved in the British Museum.
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."
Lucian,
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. … You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains their contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
Pliny the Younger,
Is another valuable historical source for information on Jesus and the early Church. Pliny was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia, located in Asia Minor. In the year 112 AD, he wrote to the Emperor Trajan, asking how he should deal with those in his region who have been accused of being Christians.
In the letter, Pliny describes the practices of these “criminals”:
“They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food-but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”
@@jonathonrobinson7236 By that logic, child sacrifice works. The king of Moab sacrificed his son, which his enemies, the Israelites, “confirm” in the passage below. By your logic, this is evidence that child sacrifice works and can turn battles around.
2 Kings 3:24-27
When the king of Moab saw that the battle (against Israel and its temporary allies) had gone against him, he took with him 700 swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. Then he took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land, even tho Yahweh was on their side and had prophesied that Moab would be in their hands (3:18-19).
8:34 They didn't INDEPENDENTLY regard the account as historical, though, so you really can't just add them together like that.
It's like if a friend thinks he saw Elvis alive, tells me and I believe him. It doesn't make the sighting more likely to be true because there are now two people who believe it. The more people we tell and the more people who come to believe it, doesn't make the sighting more likely to be true. What you'd want is more independent sightings.
Old joke: An atheist dies and finds himself in the presence of God. The atheist says, “well I’ll be damned!”
Omg the whole picture..just shows how deserving they are . So much for honesty
This saxobeat outro of House of the Rising Sun is fucking fire.
Love that “House of the Rising Son” outro! Thanks for all your hard work….
Lol, they finally abandoned the "irriducibile complexity of the eye" for the "irriducibile complexity of the ear".
EDIT: too soon... they also have the eye argument.
Pardon?😜
There was an earlier Sumerian myth of the forbidden fruit which was actually sex. The fruit of the loom. The Goddess Inanna
One can certainly read the Eden myth as a fable of childhood's end - A&E gained greater understanding and sexual awareness but list their innocence and sense of safety in the process. This is, however, an inevitable fact of life, and its kind of worrying that Bible God got angry that his creations didn't remain naked oblivious children.
Pullman's His Dark Matetials trilogy in part aims to rewrite this myth to remove the shame from adulthood.
Eve's peach 🍑 must be sinfully succulent
Any relation to the goddess (ok, sub-goddess behind Kellyanne Conway) of lies, Kayleigh Mac-inane-y (aka Mac-e-ninny)?
Someone said that was what the fruit really was in the bible; could it be why God told Eve she would have pain during childbirth? 🤔
@@ninam.6781 Or it could be because like with so many of our human bodily processes, it was terribly and not very intelligently designed! My eyes, ears, teeth, sinuses.......etc. Definitely not because of Eve.
Just the simple fact that there is more than one religion should be a massive 'clue' to anybody who can 'think'...
Glad we got Dr Dan in. He is crystal clear about mutation rates.
Dominion over animals somebody didn't tell that elephant that that went berserk at that circus and killed its trainer.
Somebody tell the ants who keep coming into my kitchen!
Someone tell the cats that treat their owners like their servants.
"Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin (on Dapper Dino's bookshelf) is an excellent book.
Yeah the ultimate harem anime. That is the attitude of the Bible when it comes down to marriage.
Aron mentioning Dante's Inferno made my jaw drop. I absolutely love that game and the memories it gave me, and Aron played it!
Can’t tell if sarcasm, but Aron was probably talking about the 14th century epic poem.
@@cjfeinberg7613 it is sarcasm hehe
I was going to say, that story has been around long before the video game. Still an amazing game!
Wow, that bit about how the Bible was written by multiple authors "in 3 languages across 3 continents" is some of the most disingenuous BS I've ever heard, even from Christian apologetics standpoints. Yes, it's technically true, but only by virtue of the coincidence that the culture who wrote them happened to live in the "near east" at the crossroads between 3 Africa, Europe, and Asia. They want it to sound like these stories were more widespread than they actually were, but really, it only highlights how small and regional the stories are.
Have you wondered if there was any “proof” of the miracles of Jesus, outside the Bible (and outside of the writings of believers)? There are documents in which these writers provided us with evidence that Jesus worked miracles, but in writing, intended to downplay belief in such miracles.
The first comes from the Babylonian Talmud 43a. Babylonian Talmud (late first or second century AD) Babylonian Sanhedrin43a-b “On the eve of the Passover they hanged Yeshu and the herald went before him for forty days saying [Yeshu] is going forth to be stoned in that he hate practiced sorcery and beguiled and led astray Israel.
Here Jesus is accused of sorcery, in obvious parallel with the charge leveled in Matthew 12:22-23. The writer of the Talmud does not agree that Jesus worked bona fide miracles, but he reports that he did things which, to the enemy of Jesus could only be written off as sorcery.
In the very early century AD Jewish literature, in "tHul 2:22-23" it is reported that healings were done in the name of Jesus. So we have indirect confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus and of his working of public miracles-only charging that the miracles were worked by Satan, not God.
The point I would make from this material in the Jewish Talmud from the late first century is that it proves that Jesus was a person they felt they had to deal with and that it was sufficiently common knowledge that he worked signs and wonders that they felt they had to address this by claiming that Jesus did his miracles by the power of Satan (sorcery).
Does this “prove” that Jesus worked miracles? Maybe or maybe not.
What it proves is that many in his day were convinced that he worked miracles and that his enemies were aware of sufficient positive evidence of this that they felt they needed to explain it.
In summary, the request for “proof” in written documents that Jesus did in fact work miracles from non-believers is, logically, a very high bar indeed. We can assume that most of those who witnessed his miracles either came to believe in him or found ways to explain away what they saw. In fact, I believe that it is striking that we have these two documented examples of non-Christians feeling the need to explain what seems to have been common knowledge that there was much reason to believe Jesus worked miracles.
This does indeed corroborate the accounts of miracles and wonders performed by Jesus in the Bible.
I find it striking that proof exists about Jesus from unbiased sources outside of the Bible. Some of these writers have provided direct evidence of Christians, while others have provided indirect evidence of the existence of Jesus and of His crucifixion. The writings of these writers offer a peek into the current events taking place from the late first century to the late second century. I find difficulty in downplaying or explaining away these writer's writings on the account of the prestige and social position they held, and the disdain illustrated in some of their writing. I only provided writing for four writers and the remaining five writers are included in my table chart located on my channel.
Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus, Phlegon, Thallus, Julius Africanus, Flavius Josephus
Tacitus, The Greatest Roman historian and senator
Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.
He then describes the torture of Christians:
Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man’s cruelty, that they were being destroyed.
Mara Bar-Serapion,
He was a Syrian philosopher, who wrote a letter to his son sometime after AD 73. There is only one manuscript of his letter in existence and preserved in the British Museum.
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."
Lucian,
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. … You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains their contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
Pliny the Younger,
Is another valuable historical source for information on Jesus and the early Church. Pliny was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia, located in Asia Minor. In the year 112 AD, he wrote to the Emperor Trajan, asking how he should deal with those in his region who have been accused of being Christians.
In the letter, Pliny describes the practices of these “criminals”:
“They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food-but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.”
If Sauron didn't exist, Frodo's journey would have been pointless. Therefore, The Lord of the Rings is literally true.
Gotta love the tapdance when a Christian who believes the Bible is the absolute word of God, try to explain why they eat shell fish and wear banned fabrics and other inconvenient things
The Jesus excuse is typically used in that case. Then if you point out that Jesus himself said he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, they may point out that Jesus saying "It is done" was him fulfilling the prophecies and laws; thus Christians are bound by the New Covenant of Christ, rather than by the Old/Mosaic Covenant and Laws. Yet some denominations and sects will still care about the Ten Commandments. Just another classic "picking and choosing" Christian moment.
No one reads the Bible more literally than an atheist. I love that
I sniff, snide?
Skeptics' Annotated Bible is very helpful
Not only is this creationist totally wrong on everything, he also has a smug and annoying voice.
Don’t they all
The new outro music is amazing btw! I loved it. Definitely worth keeping
Im actually happy to admit im an animal
I would rather put off my animal body's dissolution. That reduces the fun aspect. But I need this brain to exist within. So it's great, I suppose.
Another great vid…. Loved that house of rising sun cover at the end!
Aron, you are a beautiful human being. I wish you were my teacher growing up. I would have learned so much. I come from a pentecostal family south of the Bible belt. Who are very stubborn in their ways when it comes to creationism. I was the only one who was always skeptical and asking questions that only infuriated them. Never a clear answer with backed up proof for my questions other than the "good book". I hope you are healthy and well Aron
Just the fact that someone asking a question about a story, infuriates the story teller... is enough reason to question the story they are telling. This is a telltale sign that their “belief” in the story is more likely the result of indoctrination rather than the inevitable conclusion of logic and reason.
A person who has arrived at a conclusion based on logic and reason, welcomes such questions... because they are genuinely excited by the opportunity to explain the logical answer.
It just occurred to me... these creationists must have never
had dogs, because had they'd seen a dog devour a bone, they'd know most bones laying around "in the field" would have been eaten by other animals, in due time.
45:53 So tell me again how the deity in the bible made Adam!!?? Seems even the narrator does not believe that story in his own book of fables?
Thanks for all your straight talking and reasonably clear delivery of actual facts Aron
diggin the jazzy outro Aron
If it weren't for great presentations like yours, these flim-flammers would be walking all over science in cruddy boots.
Second tune I learnt, badly, on the guitar back in 1982. ...the folk version had 6 verses. The Animals version must have been the apologetics, clipped version.
"Answers in Genisis" More like "Incredulity in Genisis"
Taking apart and destroying the creationist argument step by step and wonderfully done.
@@theviperman1947 Science isn't an opinion.
@@theviperman1947 Sorry, but no. Look up the term scientific theory before you use it, and radiometric dating does work, learn about it.
@@theviperman1947 Also there was no global flood, that's another falsehood.
@@theviperman1947 No it hasn't, you don't even understand what radiometric dating is.
@@theviperman1947 More lies for Jesus.
39:57 Oh goodness, that immediate refutation of their absurd dishonesty was beautiful. 😂
Really enjoying this series so far Aron
What the guy says in 42:26 is what I told a bishop when i visited one to ask for my excommunication. He told me that he believed that the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve and the flood were purely metaphorical.
I asked him "if that's the case, what's the point of dying for a mythological story? If there was no fall, there was no sin and therefore no reason for a sacrifice."
I don't remember his answer but i remember him going back to Jesus and just accepting the new testament.
The bible makes the claim..... Not supported by any evidence or anything other than an assertion.......
Oh hey, new music at the end... Nice one :) Very feelgood :)
I can actually feel asleep listening to Aron, only to get woken up by that heavy metal music 😂. So I downloaded the video, cut that part and play it. Nothing feels better than falling asleep listening to logic.
I can prove the existence of spirits.
*proceeds to open liquor cabinet*
I wonder how many ex fundies went to college because of Aaron Ra. I keep seeing it, and he is a big reason I'm going.
Love the comeback to House of the rising sun at the end 👌
I've missed this series for some time now
Many of my own questions you're asking out loud for me. Thank you for your knowledge and research.
I love when they reference Eve as the first woman when Judaism has writings about Lilith being the first woman, and because she disobeyed and had a mind of her own was cast out of the garden, then God took the rib and made Eve. If you take your scriptural roots from ancient Judaism, you have to take the parts you do not like as well.
42:23 Aron's silence and gesture speaks volumes. A fraction of a second after he made that gesture, I had done the exact same one while watching this! Great minds...
Thank you AronRa for bringing out the main points in this video great delivery like always.
Thank you so much for all of your work! You are my emotional support science communicator 😃
Thanks Aron For Defending People Who Can't Defend Themselves Against These Oppressive Christains
Excellent, well thought out, calm and thorough. Thank you for the hard work that went into this and the other content you've made.
Classic creationist upside-down-world projection to insist it’s a myth that their mythology with talking animals is a myth, but that mythology with talking animals itself is _true…_
That sax cover at the end is absolute ear candy.
This story of the DNA as “astounding code, product of an intelligent designer” needs a reality check.
1) more complicated machines requires a more complex design
2) more complex “intelligent” designs, require a more complex i.e. longer lines of code to be defined
3) therefore we predict that more complex or larger creatures need a longer DNA (the code !)
WRONG, The record (of the largest genome) is currently held by a rare Japanese flower named Paris japonica, coming in at 149 billion nucleotides - 50 times the size of the human genome! Among animals, the Australian lungfish’s genome is 43 billion base pairs long, which is around 14 times larger than the human genome.
So either the “intelligent designer” was a moron rejected by all Universities, or a totally random not guided mechanism, was involved in the genetic evolution of life.
I was thrown off by the music at the end of this video, since it was so different from the usual guitars, but then I realized it was a rendition of House of the Rising Sun. 😍 LOVE how you 'tied that bow.' 😁
I have been absolutely loving this video series!
will never understand how these people think the bible can be used to prove the bible... I mean by that logic then Lord of the Rings can be just as true...
I'm still confused by what Jesus's death supposedly accomplished.
Originally I thought the idea was his death purged us of Original Sin, the one we inherited from Adam, so that we'd all start with a pure sheet, and it is only the sins we commit in our lives that now matter... so that's why being a good boy is so important. This seems pretty coherent to me, God condemning all humanity for millenia for Adam's sin, until finally relenting and sending his son to purge us of that ancestral sin.
But I've been told that's not the case at all... we still have the Original Sin, which is why things are so bad in the world. So... what did Jesus actually do? Is it really that ALL sins are forgiven if you but believe? But then why all the emphasis on being good in life, what's the point if all sins will be forgiven anyway? This understanding doesn't add up nearly as well...
it's silly lore, lots of retcons and different authors disagreeing with each other, it's like modern comics just without dinosaurs
@@XraynPR Or WITH dinosaurs, depending on who you ask...
Jesus’s execution myth is an analogy of the scapegoat tradition; take two identical male goats (in this case Jesus and Barabbas, which means son of man i.e. also Jesus), sacrifice the first, and release the other one symbolically laden with the tribe’s sins into the desert, where it will undoubtedly also die.
@@kellydalstok8900 I think mixed in there is a Christology that plays upon the Levitical "sin offerings". The early Jesus-Followers could claim that they didn't need to make sin offerings at the Temple because their Jesus had ben the one final offering, which they could use by proxy. Pre 71AD this could be because they didn't like the (Hellenized) Pharisee cult that controlled the Temple, post 71AD because the Romans had trashed the Temple.
Well in Judaism for forgiveness of sins you are meet to go to the Temple in Jerusalem and sacrifice something to God depending on the sin. The Christians decided that Jesus death made sacrifices unneeded for Gods forgiveness for believers (I would have said it was a solution to the destruction of the temple but Paul wrote about Jesus dying for our sins before it was destroyed). Then later on someone came up with the idea of original sin which of cause became the reason Jesus had to die.
@AronRa please take on James Tour! He ACTUALLY is a scientist in chemistry with ACTUAL merits but also a creationist speaking against origin of life science by misrepresenting it and lying.
Professor Dave did that already, the series on Tour was really good. Especially considering the interview bits of actual OOL researchers who basically said that Tour is indeed lying.
Wait, he thinks atheists need to explain away the need for a savior?
How far from understanding things can he get?
Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. The mind boggles as to how far he can get.
Really appreciate the work that goes into your videos Aron. Love the cover of the Animals' original House of the Rising Sun that ends this one too. ;)
The Creation Museum, the Ark Encounter and AIG are I beleive in the State of Kentucky which was a major coal mining area however with the decline of the coal industry it seems certain people have now switched to mining quotes the spoil of which is an avalanche of Creationist BS.
A big thankyou to Aron Ra for creaning up the interlectual enviroment a kind of EPA that takes no prisioners.
I'm in for the horn section!! Nice outtro choice 😎