"She Is LYING!" - Solicitor Reveals Post Office Scandal Victims' Reaction To Testimony At Inquiry
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- Опубликовано: 25 апр 2024
- A former top Post Office executive has said she never “knowingly” did anything wrong in the Horizon scandal.
Angela van den Bogerd began her evidence at the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry in central London on Thursday by saying she was “truly, truly sorry” for the “devastation” caused to wrongly convicted subpostmasters and their families.
Ms van den Bogerd, who was played by Coronation Street actress Katherine Kelly in the ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office, later said: “I didn’t knowingly do anything wrong, and I would never knowingly do anything wrong.”
Jason Beer KC, lead counsel to the inquiry, pointed out that she had not apologised for her own role in the scandal in her witness statement.
Ms van den Bogerd replied: “I’ve reflected on this quite a bit and the disclosure that I’ve seen through this process, there are things that, documents that I’ve seen that… clearly knowing what I know now, I would give further weight to some of those documents than I did at the time, so they would have more significance.
“So things that I might have missed at the time I really regret that and wish I’d been able to see that back then.”
Mr Beer pressed again, asking: “You don’t apologise for anything that you did wrong, do you?”
She responded: “I apologise for not getting to the answer more quickly. But with the evidence I had and the parameters of my role at the time, I did the best I could to the best of my ability.”
Solicitor Albert Harwood says Post Office scandal victims were "shocked" at Angela Van Den Bogerd's testimony at the Post Office Inquiry.
"We already know what her credibility is like, she is lying... She refused to give a full, proper apology. It was meaningless in a sense!"
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She should be stripped of her pension................. and jailed...............
Stitching Mail Bags !
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
It won't happen senior managers all piss in the same pot thats why they're never held to account. I wanna know why the PO was allowed to abuse their power of running their own prosecutions and seize assets yet Rishi Sunak hasn't abused that same power and made the PO give back the money they stole. Of course that won't happen though the PO will keep everything they stole and it will come out of our taxes. Good ol' British Justice don't exist.
Well - a friend of mine at church had another idea re jail. Rather than that, make her do some unpleasant type of community service but, even more, apologise IN PERSON to each and every one of the sub-postmasters who were falsely accused and whose lives were ruined.
What I have learnt so far. No-one at the Post Office knew anything, wasn't in charge of anything, can't remember anything, didn't do anything and nothing was their fault.....but they did the best they could.
Your summation fits the bill perfectly !
I am amazed these epeople drew down HUGE salaries yet apparently knew nothing about their organisation, didn't speak to anyone, didn't hear anything and wore a blindfold all day at work. What the heck were they paying them for?
and all whilst getting big salaries, bonuses etc!
Exactly!
Yep, and Mr. Mills, the ex-HSBC guy who tried to get them into some sort of shape, gave up after a few years.
The emplyment histories show far, far too many counterstaff over-promoted over the years to high positions within the organisation, still only seeing their role as 'balancing the til'. When interviewed so many seem blind to any moral issue beyond that. Sad, immature people really.
The only thing this woman is sorry about is being caught out! She has lied through her teeth. Because of her people have suffered incredible loss of reputation, been imprisoned, lost their homes and several have been driven to suicide. Bet she has a wonderfully luxurious life style!
The phrase is "I'm all right Jack". As long as they were raking in the big wages, thats *all* that matters to them.
Interesting how the level of incompetence and selective memory is never weeded out when they are earning top dollar
I used to work in local authority and saw it many times. People promoted to the highest level of their incompetence. Then it was because their face fitted, now its box ticking!
Elites never face real justice, system is rigged in their favour I bet you at then end of this not one Post Office big week loses their pension, gets fined or goes to jail. Real justice is a myth, only vigilantism will get any meaningful redress.
Not no more … whatever happens she’s toast …
If she can be proven a liar then why is she not prosecuted????
The rich are exempt. When they cause devastation they always walk away with *massive* pensions. Often, if they feel their trough is not yet full enough they walk into another high paying job. The system looks after its own. The last thing they will allow is a precedent of huge wages = responsibility.
Patience! It will happen, I believe.
@@juliemchugh8828 Yep, that comes next.
The civil service might not be keen on that.
she probably will be after the inquiry is finished, published it's conclusions, etc; in the meantime the Police and CPS ought to be paying very close attention to the whole inquiry
Van der Boggoff - another showing utter contempt for those accused of fraud - due to a bad Fujistu product being installed under HER WATCH - but utter incompetence at doing her job. IMO HER assets should be frozen, ALL monies she has received in that role removed and ALL pensions / shares/ other removed and used towards the payments towards the Post Office accused.👎😡😠
Civil servants don't get prosecuted.
Lawyers have said Police are investigating them for purgury, perverting the course of justice, fraud, and corporate manslaughter.
im sorry to give you this info .we got more chance of you tube getting us jailed for showing dessent to tory rule. and they are making an effort for the tory .it election year how many warning have you had for desperat attempts to silence us so far,
And....the reason behind the lies is not the reputation of the Post Office..... it's money.
Of course it is about money. A high paid job where you could not do anything wrong (with help from the courts) is kind of royal status. But, to get a job like that you have to be a good liar and lack any morals.
marmon worship with tory backing .
@@andydudley1775 Mammon not marmon
This must proceed to a trial in a court of law, she is obviously trying to avoid incriminating herself.
She isn't truly sorry she is only sorry she got caught
How did they employ so many senior people with clearly ‘Dementia’ levels of memory loss - Jail time NOW! 😡😡😡
tory worship of marmon .even you tube are disliking our reaction to tory crimes by threatoning us too into silence and even on the sly too.the reputation of the tory party is protected by youtube on here .and showing dessent to tory scams with get you judged by youtube with no content to reflect on .no proof presented just swift punishment with no trial and no evidence .worst than the PO.just before an election too .while tory can say what they like .we being farmed into silence .
It WASN'T an apology. Saying you're sorry about something and admitting responsibility for something are two entirely different things.
and the nasty woman knows that all too well
@@childofthe50s53 I'm fast approaching 70, and one of the things I've learned is that the truth always emerges - later if not sooner. Whatever these conspirators were protecting - the brand, their own backs, whatever - is now blackened beyond all redemption, and their own individual reputations are in the gutter. It's always best to be completely truthful and preserve honour and integrity, no matter how difficult that may be.
These characters know just how cheap words are and there isn't an atom of sincerity in any of it. Only jailing the corrupt hierarchy of the Post Offfice will bring any kind of justice for the victims. These reptiles put the Postmasters in prison to "save face".
She recalls everybody else's part played but her own actions remain a foggy mist of amnesia.
Just like the rest of the board at the top. Reclaim their salaries and their pensions, then go after their assets. This money can go to to the sub-postmasters, and back to the British tax payers. Easy, peasy.
I am watching this woman give live evidence (26/4/24) and I’m astounded by how deep the conspiracy goes throughout the PO. I’m absolutely disgusted all these executives need very long jail terms for the damage they have done.
Yes, it's sickening. And it must be so hard for those affected to sit through it all again. They really have suffered.
But it's not just the Post Office, all our Society is run by people with this mindset, the Estabishment is a self-perpetuating racket, look at the NHS, still has more Managers than Doctors !
Prison sentence for them all, they knew dam well what was going on 😡
Moral imperative that she’s JAILED
And major clawback of monies.
Anything less than a jail sentence will be an injustice
They should be treated the same way as they treated the sub-postmasters even when the evidence said they were innocent they were still jailed
I watched her squirm her way through her evidence. She lied and lied so obviously that anyone could see she allowed those poor post masters to go to prison. She should be sentenced for perjury.
They seem serve a very special tea at the PO. It causes selective amnesia and compulsive lying.
It seems that senior officials are hired on the basis of a positive diagnosis of psychopathy.
Actually it is well recognised that a huge proportion of CEOs demonstrate psychopathic tendencies. In the POs case this seems to have been a preference in recruitment though right down the chain of command an unusually long way as fwr as their investigators (who are the most unprofessional and intellectually challenged I have ever seen in the investigation field)
She is protecting all her gains...salary, bonuses, pay increases and most of all her final salary related pension........it's all about money it's nothing to do with acting morally!!
It all needs recouping......what price accountability......blood money even!!
If you watch the enquiry live on the official channel you will note the most professional and committed manner by which the lawyers question the POL executives. It is not designed to condemn, merely to elicit the substantive issues that led to the misery of the sub-posties. The Chair and his staff are to be commended for their diligence and thoroughness. Special mention to Mr Beer whose composure and stamina are awesome to behold. I hope the Sub-posters are justly compensated quickly and we can all move on.
Yes, the absolute pinnacle of professionalism I think. Though I find it curious they are allowed to alter sworn statements! Kind of defeats the whole point.
They are brilliant!
@@Frank-cd2ijI don’t think his questions focused on IT. They were focussed on her awareness of and attitudes to how this mess unfolded. She was a manager of network services, and I do believe she was in a position beyond her capability and expertise because she relied so heavily on others.
This woman is lying. She knew. A cold, heartless person. Her family must be proud.
Hard as nails
When will there be enough evidence to start charging people?
They have the information, but not, apparently, the will.
Van den bogey’s body language says she most definitely is NOT sorry. Only sorry her shockingly bad behaviour and shameful behaviour was caught out. She needs to go to jail.
Word salads, lies & euphemisms, = sociopathic behaviour……
Has to be grounds for a pervert the course of justice case!
Only one simple question. When are we going to get a proper trial, with judge and jury, and hopefully no hiding place for liars?
Send her to jail. Take away her pension and all her wealth.
Did she get a bonus that was dependent on profits & did the money Victims were forced to pay contribute to Post Office profits thereby setting a criminal conflict of interest ? If that is the case she along with others will be charged ,the Justice System has failed & it's vital trust is restored .
A) YES she did get a bonus that was linked directly to Post Office profits. B) YES the money the victims were forced to pay did go into/contribute to, the overall Post Office profits.
@@jamesthompson3674 it would be called Unjust Enrichment.
Either criminal, or incompetent or both.
Apalling person who should be in prison
She must go to prison and be stripped of her pension.
The arrogance of the PO Senior Execs is beyond belief. Someone needs to actually go to jail to show these ‘untouchables’ that the party is over…time for the Government to stand for something.
Judge Peter Fraser criticised Van De Bogherd her testimony and said she "did not give me frank evidence, and sought to obfuscate matters, and mislead me".
She is as hard as nails, take her to jail asap.
The fact that she was able to hide away & act as she did for so long in the Post Office says everything you need to kn ow about the toxic culture of the Post Office, a culture that continues to this day. Alan Bates referred to it on several occasions when he gave his evidence recently. I don't think she has tried to claim too much about her abilities (one hopes she hasn't got the nerve, but who can tell?) but it should be remembered that when she left the Post Office & took a role with the Welsh FA - in some sort of personnel/human resources capacity - she lasted one year. Several references as to the reason(s) for her short tenure of that post can be found online with a bit of research.
she daren't admit to much or anything or at least be "selective" in her so called recollections as she probably knows she'd be in serious legal trouble after this inquiry concludes, and I seriously hope she is
Either way she's commited fraud. She's revealed she didn't do any work at the PO apart from redirecting a few emails, then hoping someone else would sort them out as she forgot about them straight away, as they weren't within her remit. She couldn't have worked full time.
"its hard to understand the reasoning behind the actions of these people" - yes, it is hard to understand how someone could be so lacking in principle, empathy and good faith that even to this day they are defending a corporation above the lives of people who have been ruined. Hard to understand, yes, but you don't get to be a top executive in a company like post office unless you are such a twisted, rotten little human.
It's not hard to understand they were motivated by greed and money.
Did she remember to collect her money jail her sewing mail bags ideal job😅
If she continues to lie, surely she can be taken to court.
Day 2 of her giving evidence was very much the same pattern of selective memory retention and lies. Edward Henry questioning of her was very strong and he suggested whether she had any idea of the suffering she had caused.
Can we have more questions asking what the legal repurcussions are of willfully lying to the court, gross negligence and incompetence, wrongful prosecutions, leading to strokes and suicide? Surely there must be prison looming for all these execs, not just Vennels?
Unfortunately there is nothing criminal in most awful human traits. Perverting the course of justice is criminal but is hard to prove after a long tie has elapsed, as here.
Angela 'no comment' van de thingy......absolute joke!😮
Can someone please explain why all these thieving lying bastards at the Post Office both past and present cannot have their ill gotten bonus's tripped from them ???
Very convenient forgetting those specific emails. There is not one shred of regret for the victims, the only regret she has is for her own situation. Nasty lady.
They should be forced to submit to a Polygraph.
Why ,after so much
proof , has there been nk convictions...jail sentences for all of them immediately!!!
no one is innocent, some are more guilty than others
Why r people so shocked at them lying there all sorry but hold onto positions money bounces power NEVER held to account while people have SUFFERED with what these people did
LIAR! LIAR! PNTS ON FIRE! Even a Judge called her a Liar! She should be jailed immediately! It's shocking that she can lie so much under oath! Pack your bags Mrs you will be jailed pretty soon I hope
Shocking they ruined so many lives 😮 Jyst to cover up their incompetence 😮
" Did you get your bonus after you lied in the high court " " Yes " deafening silence...... GOTCHA.. Incoming perjury charges I expect.
Sub post office workers lost everything while post office (tops exec) all collected there bounces KNOWING they had people imprisoned suicide lost everything while they collect
How can anybody with such a terrible memory rise to become a senior executive at a large company? Or could it be (I'm such a terrible person for suggesting this) that she is lying through her teeth?
Gareth Jenkins, chief IT architect at Fuj is one of only two people involved in the POscandal facing possible legal consequences, as the Met Police investigate him for potential perjury.21 Mar 2024
The reason is very simple the post office has the culture of the civil service in its DNA and the civil service would rather the lives of the public be ruined than ever admit that there are flaws anywhere within the system, because the system must be beyond reproach. History is clear small mistakes in the systems are always made a thousand times worse by covering up the small mistakes and yet they still do it!
Looking forward the court proceedings…….so many charges in the possible mix, manslaughter, fraud, lying……..jail time and total asset stripping is needed to the guilty parties!
Why are people going back to 2013?? If anybody has watched this enquiry it goes back to 1999 (Mills and Miller. In 2003 there was the Coyne report (Day 59). It was a long time ago but why does everybody in the end say well I should have done this. Did they turn up for work or was it just another loss making public company that the taxpayers funded and nobody knew what they were supposed to do! Utter Incompetence and lies.
It actually goes back a lot longer - search "Origins of a Disaster - Eleanor Shaikh" which tells the whole sorry saga of Horizon from conception to its introduction when ICL/Fujitsu were warning of potential problems.
Fujitsu need to be accountable and should pay billions back to the tax payer and a minimum 10 year jail sentences should be given to internal lawyers, directors and engineers at Fujitsu
Because of the technical product failures I doubt there is any criminality of individuals apart from egregiously perverting the course of justice. That is difficult to prove because of the lapsed time. In which case it needs to be a case for damages against the Fujitsu Corporation. Any resultant bankruptcy creates its own societal dilemmas. Unfortunately a corporation has no soul to be damned, and no body to be kicked. Senior management morph into the same if they are not careful as we see in this enquiry.
These despicable individuals must face charges for at least perjury and serve jail time
They know it was all wrong but did nothing, Fake apologies, still no empathy or shame…..They all look guilty…..All covering their own backs….Prison
If she was a director she should have known exactly what was going on.She is definitely not telling the truth about what she knew.
If money went missing
The post office didn't get it the sub post office manager didn't get it. Who did?
If SPMs were forced to pay back the supposed "money missing", then the PO DID get it!
SPMs paid back many thousands of £s of supposedly "missing" money. POL got it.
@@juliemchugh8828 Not in a single case did the POL investigators prove or even try to prove how or where the Sub-posties had used the money. Because there was no proof. How could any conviction for theft ever stand on that basis? Were the courts as incompetent as POL?
what did they do at work when they was not busy forgetting after recieving payment of work with a bonus for job well done.the goverment are there employer's by the way. and i know it confusing this is not about the tory i'm talking about just the p.o.but the same could be said abourt them too
The money boosted their bonuses...
I ran investigations for an energy company. I can remember every single case that was extreme. She is a liar or incompetent.
far too late to apologise
Put it in prison and throw away the key she had 25 years of living in guilt for a hair part of a scandal
Now Justice should be saved on here and liberties should be taken away and locked inside for very very very long
I want to know why van den Bogerd was appointed in the first place given her obvious incompetence.
Why then no contempt ? Why no purgery she must be jailed
It was all about retrieving money to boost her bonus. No ability whatsoever. Selective amnesia to protect the cover up!!
The actions these post office directors have taken to protect their brand has had exactly the opposite effect. Thank goodness they have been shown up for what they have done. How many will be taken to criminal court ? If none then I hope civil courts will be well used.
Agreed but they are also protecting themselves and there pensions !
Police arrest this person immediately. No more time wasting
If Angela van den Bogerd gets locked up and they throw away the key it wouldn’t surprise me 🤬🤬🤬🤬
This should have been in the Police and Political heard. Where was/is the Minister responsible. This has taken Years and LIVES. If evidence is Under Oath and whoever Lies to anyone else thats Jail.
This time around, Mrs van den Bogerd has been caught taking money from the till. Now she has to prove that she didn't take her salary on false pretences and accept a bonus which was probably the savings of the people she accused of stealing. Crown should seize the assets of ill gotten gains and reimburse the people who were prosecuted.
I’m probably saying what everyone else has already said but every person who is found to be guilty of covering up the truth in this post office scandal, and by that I mean all the senior post of management staff, should not only be sent to prison but also be stripped of their fat cat pensions and made to pay every penny back that they earned in bonuses etc, I’d like to swear at this point but won’t 🤬
Memory failure seems to have been a key requirement to work at Post Office.
It is not protecting the brand - it is just that showing incompetence is better than being involved in a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice!
i do not call this protecting i call it hiding behind a brand reputation and calusion at the cost to us it's owner.with all the might of the tory party who has conflict of interets and partnered companies linked to fijitsu like a sunak .for example .
Only thing she is sorry for is being caught out in her lies. Don't recall, don't remember, the serious cases of amnesia is unbelievable, she's a liar
Jail for all involved
She was completely out of her depth , along with most of the others who were running the P.O..
Now they are all in denial.
They are happy to admit to bugs because the real problem was the access and the theft of money by Fujitsu has still not been exposed and called out.
a rishi has companies partnered to fijitsu/this link makes perfect sense now we can understand why the tory are fully behind criminals in the P.O.
You mean she left a sinking ship
STINKING ship surely, Margery...
She was pulling the plugs out on the way she was on the first boat away with all the other rats 😮😮😮😮😮
How can these PO officials sleep at night !? This investigation beggars belief, the guilty MUST face prosecution, stripped of their rights and imprisoned.
Fentalin me thinks .
How did AVDB get the role in the first place if she seems to be someone not competent to fulfill the role? And does this explain her allegiance to the Post Office brand?
Talk is Cheap......
Beer KC, lead counsel to the inquiry, challenged Ms van den Bogerd's opening statement, as he accused her of not saying sorry for her own role in the scandal
Nor familiar with the UK legal system but are there no perjury laws ? Can you lie with impunity to the courts and MP's oversight people and nothing happens?
Jail her and the rest
Are they being advised by their lawyers to say that they can’t remember?
Fujitsu knew from inception of Horizon.
I can't wrap my head around why it is still not settled. No one in positions of authority has been prosecuted and most likely won't as they retire early on. Yes, people had to know when it involves hundreds of post offices. Do they think people are stupid? But like my old granny would say is " Money talks nobody walks"
All about their management bonuses. There Shouldn’t be bonuses.
Darkest Deepest Criminals … even I heard of the problems a descade ago … she’s wicked
You are all so right
Ms Bogerd, did you eat the chocolate?
No I did not.
But Ms Bogerd, your face and tongue are covered in chocolate!
Yes but I did not eat the chocolate.
I put it to you, Ms Bogerd, you DID eat the chocolate as the evidence clearly demonstrates!
So I remember the chocolate coming towards my mouth and my mouth opening, but I did not eat the chocolate. I think there is a difference. 🥺😵💫😂🤷🙇🤦⚖️🙏
Brilliant
Priceless!!
Mocking the dead , not right , she is disgusting.
I was glad to see how worried she was. She is obviously thinking how much time she has left before she will be in jail along with all the others.
I have given testimony in a trial from events up to 12 years ago. I could see words I had written but I had no recollection of the thought process behind them. Unless you have been there you have no idea what it is like.
In my experience working in the public sector - often those who get to the top of the organizations senior team are selected because of their ruthlessness and willingness to put the needs of the organization before the needs of front line staff and the public. This is usually encouraged by local and central gov politicians through bonuses that benefit the organization rather than primarily those of its staff or the public. The PO is an extreme example of what happens with this type of culture but it is not overall unusual across the public sector. One of the lessons from this inquiry is that this type of culture needs to change - bureaucracy should be applied with the rule that those making decisions that affect others should not be shielded from those who the decision affects. Perhaps then we might get some re-balancing and services that are real public services rather than serving their own interests.
What would have happenned if she had not lied and had told the truth, and about all the others too?
When they all start claiming bad memories we know that they have either been conspiring and being coached by lawyers and you can bet your life that we are all paying for their lawyers along with everything else .
These people should be prosecuted now!They are an utter disgrace & spend their time lying to cover their miserable backs!