Malazan: Gardens of the Moon (spoiler free review) by Steven Erikson
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2024
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I just finished Gardens of the Moon for the third time, and am attempting to read the entire series again for a third time, as the furthest I’ve made it is Midnight Tides. I love Gardens more and more each time I read it. It’s interesting the things I picked up on the third time. I can only imagine what it would be like reading it after completing the series. I’ll be dropping my review Monday (shameless plug 😂). I agree with everything you said. Oddly enough, similar to Erickson, one of your least favorite authors (NK Jemisin) spent a long time creating her world first before crafting the story and characters for The Broken Earth Trilogy, but with completely different results of course. Great and passionate review of one of the best fantasy books I’ve read. I can’t wait to re-read Deadhouse Gates, which still has the greatest prologue I’ve ever read.
Do it! I've done two reads of tbe series now, planning to do round 3 in w few years. This series is so much better than anything else out there
Looking forward to your review, I want to try reading GotM soon...
I've only made it through Memories of Ice mostly because I love Gardens so much that I want more of it 🤔🤪
@@ithrahmunchswallow468 Same!
I struggled getting into the first book. I have read a lot of fantasy and have waaaaay more to go. But malazan will always always be my favorite ❤
I love Matt's reviews. He does such a great job of explaining things. He himself is a great writer with how he describes all of these books. Best straight up book reviewer on the internet.
Decided to jump in on this because of you, Matt! It has spent several years on my TBR but I am so happy I made the jump. I LOVE IT. Can’t wait for Deadhouse Gates!
I read the series as a beginner in the fantasy genre and it was definitely a wild struggle to get through the Malazan books the first time.
I have re-read the first two books and currently on Memories of Ice.
My experience the second time is much more enjoyable. I think Memories of Ice has been some of the best reading I have ever experienced.
I am quite happy that I have endured the Malazan books.
I just restarted this series after about 10 years from finishing it the first time . Absolutely brilliant , better the second time. Thank you for giving me the idea & motivation . Amazing
Awesome! Enjoy!
Put down the books on my third read because my husband was finally reading ALL of the wheel of time so I wanted to reread them too. Love malazan so much. It’s my comfort read at night 😊
I am still reading this book, but one interesting thing I read on the Wikipedia page about this series is that Erikson took very minimal, if any, inspiration from Tolkien. In one book about the genre, a professor wrote that, "Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings looms over all the fantasy written in English-and in many other languages-since its publication; most subsequent writers of fantasy are either imitating him or else desperately trying to escape his influence." To which, Erikson replied, "with many of my fellow epic fantasy writers, our first experience of the Tolkien tropes of epic fantasy came not from books, but from Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying games ... As my own gaming experience advanced, it was not long before I abandoned those tropes ... Accordingly, my influences in terms of fiction are post-Tolkien, and they came from conscious responses to Tolkien (Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series) and unconscious responses to Tolkien (Cook's Dread Empire and Black Company series). So, Professor James, when you say 'since [Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings]... most subsequent writers of fantasy are either imitating him or else desperately trying to escape his influence'-sorry. You're flat-out wrong."
You are the reason I picked this up now! Thank you for having this buddy read!
I don't really reread books anymore, but this review got me to think about just ploughing through Malazan once again. And I loved it the first time through, starting from the Gardens of the Moon that just blew me away right from the start.
Read the book with the buddy read for the first time and loved it! First buddy read as well, and I loved the structure and following along everyday with a manageable amount of reading to commit to. Highly recommend!
Bought this book when I first started reading fantasy and DNF’d it. I was immature and not ready for it.
In my mid 30s and by god this is the best fantasy book ever written. Masterful prose with engaging characters in a world with consequences.
Thanks for your video as a reminder to try this book again. Forever in your debt.
Thanks for the review Matt! I think its apperent you enjoy talking about the Malazan books. Gardens of the Moon is amazing and I look forward to a reread after I finish the series.
Love the way you explain the series. This video is awesome! Glad to find your channel ❤❤
Great review and fantastic series. I am looking forward to rereading once TBB's edition comes out. I did the audio for the first 8 books (so far) and love them, but I bet a physical read be so much clearer.
First time I read this book, I fell in with the category of readers who found it incomprehensible. I continued on to read three more books in the series with little more success until I felt ready to go back and give it another shot.
Second time through, I was blown away by how clear everything seemed to be, and by how much of a page turner Gardens of the Moon is. Characters, action, story dialogue, everything... It was like a book I had never read before.
Malazan BotF is an incredible series I'm still in the middle of reading. (I'm moving on to The Bone hunters next). I recommend to everyone who enjoys fantasy (especially dark fantasy) to stay with it if it seems like a tough read in the beginning.
I've reread this series three times and I always love going back to GotM. There are so many little things to pick out that you wouldn't have the context to understand on a first read through. The book does show it's age a bit, in that the authors style is noticeably more developed from the second book on (imo). Things like Quick Ben shouting something like "awaken the seven within me!" (before he starts blasting) stand out to me in GotM, in that I can't see him saying something like that in later books.
On another note. I'm glad you are getting back to The Second Apocalypse. That's the series that finally knocked Malazan off the top spot for my greatest fantasy series. I am wondering how you will remember who is who though because that is another complex series and I think it has been 4-5 months since you read The Darkness That Comes Before. I personally would not be able to remember the plot and characters to my satisfaction after such a long break, but that's just me. Hopefully you don't run into that issue!
Thanks for the excellent review!
Friend and I are gonna buddy read the whole series after Stormlight 5 comes out, and I am so excited to finally sink my teeth into this series
out of all the reviews you are doing I wish so much that these are spoiler filled and your thoughts on specific plot points and what find interesting on rereads. Not just book but whole series. Basically for people that read and are looking for reread.
Even if it's only on patreon it would be great
I read this book around ten months ago and liked it a lot. I’m now on Midnight Tides. I started listening to the audiobooks around four months ago and liked it even more the second time. I also understood a lot more. Amazing series so far!
Do you think I'd be able to read this book, English is not my first language but I've enjoyed the stormlight archive and the first 3 of the wheel of time books
I've read GoTM, DG and part of the third. I think my biggest problem with the books is that except for a few characters I couldn't distinguish one person from another. Many of the characters read with the same tone to me. Also, sometimes I feel like the author is telling me "this is a really big deal", but since there are often no immediate or noticeable repercussions I find myself thinking, "ok" and moving on. I think I do better when I can figure out the rules of the world a bit easier. Which is more powerful? Gods? Dragons? Mages? Creatures? Demons? I have no idea, but they all exist here and do their thing. When one comes into conflict with another I like to know something about them so I can realize the stakes. So, yes, I struggle a bit with this series, but I am pretty dogged. I know people say it all, or most of it, comes together on a re read, but damn, this is a loooong first read.
what is more powerful - a guy with a gun or the dude behind him with a knife...
what is more powerful - the president of the US or his cook with a dose of poison
what is power?
@theriddler2277 all those things can be pondered, because i understand the premise. Sometimes coming into a confrontation it helps to know the odds or the risk.
You pretty much said it all man, I'm already planning to re-read First Law later this year (it's been like a decade at this point) but you're making me want to redo Malazan also (it's also been a hot minute for me since I read those). Any plans to read any Glen Cook? Dread Empire in particular, you're going to recognize A LOT of elements that pop up in the first two Malazan books.
I completely agree with your analysis. I’m planning on re-reading Malazan for the third time somewhere in the future. But even on second reading of Malazan Gardens of the Moon was like 100% better than on my first read. I remember even on first read i even gave up on the book for some time and then picked it up again, but feeling at times I had no idea what was going on. But after having read the entire series, GOFM is just awesome as you just see and pick up on so much more essential stuff.
Now I get that reading ten books, with the goal of enjoying a second reading even more is a big task, but I can only advise every fantasy reader to give it a try. On first read the books really started clicking for me in Deadhouse Gates, and after that I couldnt put them down.
I honestly hope that Erikson brings out 10 book hardcover series so I can buy it and read this wonderful series again!
You’re totally right about not reading this series too soon - I did, in high school no less. Now in my late 20s, I think I’d like to read them again in the next decade if I can… Alas I should probably finally do A Song of Ice and Fire first - I have long saved myself for that in the pale hope I might be able to read a completed series straight through but at this point I think it owe it to myself just to try it.
I read Gardens of the Moon a little before the buddy read. I enjoyed it but it didn't amaze me. A solid 4 stars. I was lost a lot of the time, yes, but I just went along with it. And I think that's the best attitude. If you go in trying to understand everything at all times, you're gonna get frustrated. Reading that power point after each chapter was also very useful to understand what's going on. Yes, the book is confusing, but it's not that bad. I think people blew it out of proportion.
My only gripe is that I didn't connect with any character. They all sounded and felt the same, honestly, and didn't have as much dept as I'd wanted. I hope this improves going forward. For those that read the series, do you think the characters are done better in the next books?
Yes absolutely the character work is stronger in every other book, imo. The next book is a great barometer for how you’ll feel the rest of the series. It’s also much more tightly focused on a few characters groups/arcs and if THAT doesn’t work for you then the series might not be for you. But you’re gonna love it I bet 😍
Looking forward to finally starting this next year.
I think people should read this book and series in whatever way works for them. I’ve never understood the highlighting/note-taking approach to reading fiction. Doesn’t work for me and that’s okay. I just finished “Toll the Hounds,” and I will say I’ve learned at this point that straining over every character’s waxing, philosophical inner-monologues is not necessary. I just open the book and let her rip, I enjoy the hell out of these books and I know that I’ll pick up things I missed upon reread.
Whoever might read this, (probably no one), Malazan is a great series and in order to read it, all you have to do is read it.
You're making me miss Malazan. I read this book in Jan 2021, so a little over 3 years ago. I finished the series in June 2022, and then read Esslemont's 6 books after that. I want to re-read the whole series one day, but I thought I would wait until 5 years has passed...but I do miss it now!
I've read Malazan the same dates as you, starting in January 2021, both Erikson and Esslemont.
I'm still buying the books but I'm not gonna read the other series until the author's finish them
Path to Ascendancy
Kharkhanas
Witness trilogy
Best fantasy series ever written
@jameswitts3793 did you start it with Mike's channel read-along too? Lol. I need to read Witness and Kharkanas still.
@@akellerhouse83 it was more of a coincidence, I'd read loads of fantasy and heard about it online.
But then Mike was doing his reviews around the same time so I'd take breaks in-between books to watch his stuff
As well as a podcast and A Critical Dragon as I wanted to soak up as much as possible
I've read Forge of Darkness but it was probably the hardest to read with such heavy philosophical text
33 POVs in one book? 453 over 10? I can't even imagine what reading that must be like
You don’t have to imagine… you can read it yourself!
Not that hard as you imagine. It’s not Sanderson to write words and words and words… you see everything with our though the characters. No info dumbs. Remember? That’s how you see both sides of the things. You get POVs from the Malazan but from the others too. The 2nd book won’t be on the same continent, nor with the same characters.
Im in the middle of deadhouse gates right now and LOVE this series so far!
Re-read it last year and LOVED it, need to restart my re-read of Book of the Fallen. Never once did I get the sense that Erikson didn't trust me as the reader.
Reread GotM last year and loved every second. Erikson and Esslemont’s world is so good
Been putting off this series for to long. I like hearing there is a file to follow along after you read a chapter. Where is this said file?
Is it for the whole series?
It's for the first 6 books I think. But after the first couple you won't need it anymore. Google search "gardens of the Moon PowerPoint" or ask around in my discord server.
I just finished it today. I read it once around 8 years ago, but then I tried to read the second book like a year later and it did not click. This time I am planning to finish it.
The same way book one builds up and by the end it all comes together, so does book two. Im like two chapters away from finishing deadhouse gates. Its a much longer build up compared to the first book but its worth it by the end. I would imagine that deadhouse gates would even be better than book 1 on a reread after completing the series.
I am in the midst of House of Chains. This series.. Erikson so expertly dispenses information and context about the world and characters. He generates so much intrigue. I’ve never read another fantasy series that creates a need in me to know more. And Erickson drip feeds that information in a way I didn’t know I needed.
I decided to start reading the series after hearing so many good things about it. I'm at around page 400 of Gardens of the Moon and I enjoyed every page so far. I don't understand why people complain so much about the books being difficult. It's a bit dense in that the author gives you a ton of information in just a few pages and many other things remain a mystery, but I'm always a "journey before destination" kinda guy and I just love reading purely for enjoyment, so for me everything is really cool. Tattersail, Kruppe, Crokus and Rallick are my favourite characters so far, but the last few pages made me love Kalam and Quick Ben as well, so we'll see how that goes. I have the second book with me as well and just ordered the 3rd, so I can't wait to dive even deeper.
I finished the main series of Malazan back in 2017 and i love it, top 3 series all time for me. I remember liking the plot of GotM but also having no clue what the overall story is lol I'd be curious to read it again and see what i can catch
I've read this series, and the sister series and a few stand alones. It's likely the best fantasy I've ever read
Dope hat! Nice beard! If you're doing a read along of Memories of Ice, I will be there. I've been trying to finish it for almost 2 years now, I'm afraid of the third act.
Do you have a fantasy book that you would recommend to couples. With a good mix of fantasy and mild romance?
This was an excellent review, especially the part about how and why GotM is confusing to many readers!
I have re-read this at least half a dozen times, and yes it keeps getting better.
I'm actually so angry at my exams for SIDE TRACKING ME HALF WAY THROUGH THE READALONG 😖😖
BUT i really enjoyed the first half and after I'm done with exams I'm finishing it straight away :D
I am also having exams right now¡¡¡¡¡
But they will be over in few days so excited to read all my tbrs....
BTW i have finished this series and love it by my heart¡¡¡¡
@@HamedRaza-bo3mtI’m starting tomorrow and I have them non stop until Friday but Friday afternoon I CANT WAIT to continue 😊 glad to hear u love the series !
I can’t wait just got the audible
I definitely want to read the Malazan books but it might be a few years until then. There are so many books I want to read after many years of not having read any fiction.
Read Malazan three times. STOP MAKING ME WANT TO PICK IT UP AGAIN
I been reading along but I’ve read it so many times I don’t really know how to interact with the group. I forget what people are supposed to know when so it’s hard to not spoil. But also I tend to think it’s fine to spoil some things in this series cuz the reveals are so slippery sometimes
I am working my way through the series for the second time. I am currently on Toll The Hounds, which is my least favorite. It somehow seems bigger on a reread, like I make connections that I didn't the first time around. I ended up reading Gardens of the Moon 3 times and it is one of my favorites. Oh, and I'm not sure what it says about me but Joe Abercombie was one of the first adult fantasy series I read and Malazan was not far behind. 😆
Great video, as usual! I need to read this series already. Unrelated, this video has a strange buzzing/static sound in the background, in case you didn't notice (just saying).
LOVED GotM!!! I feel like when you read Malazan BOTF you just gotta accept the fact that you won't know what's going on all the time and be okay with that. If you can do that then you will not be disappointed!
Totally missing the point but I love Miss Congeniality! Gardens of the Moon is on my TBR but I'm not going to start it until I have finished a few other series first.
Dang, I really need to start this series now !!
50 1st dates is easily the best Rom Com ever
alright shoot I gotta get in on this. Hopefully there will be a little while before book 2 so I can catch up
Fun fact even Steven Erikson doesn't remember everything that happens in Malazan
Lol that is hilarious.
I’m starting House of Chains in May but after the first book, I knew I’d want to re-read the series!
I don't think I will ever read this series. I REALLY want to, but I can't get through it because it's so dark. I read the first few chapters of Gardens a few months ago and I had to stop after the fisherman's daughter got her soul taken from her and she was kidnaped. I understand that most people wouldn't consider Malazan grimdark, but even so I just can't read it, although I wish I could. I love your passion for this series though Matt and I'll watch every Malazan video you put out despite that! :D
I am giong to start Toll the Hounds for the first time and cant wait. But I am now at a point, where I am counting down to the Finale, because I desperately need to know, how it ends. 😂
While usuallyblow in the rankings, except for AP, this book gets better the farther you get away from it.
On a reread you see how much is set up here and some of the foreshadowing is painfully obvious.
it's called GURPS, from Steve Jackson, that they gamed this world from.
Do you have a video about why you should or shouldnt read books back to back in series?
These are a long read but I think it would be hard to read one book and sit it down for a long period of time. I’d forget everything lol
This was a really good video!
This is a great series. I don't love it as much as you do but it's a top 5 all time for me. And there are a few 5 star books in this series but this isn't one of them, lol. I have it as a 3.5 on my initial read. I do expect it to go up on a reread but I don't see it ever making 5 stars. The series just doesn't have good enough character work in the early books in my opinion. In the 2nd half of the series Erikson does a much better job on that but in this one he is concentrating on building the world and I completely understand doing that so I'm fine with it.
Malazan is incredibly immersive to read, theres nothing like it
half way through House of Chains. Wish I knew what was going on xDDD
Ok youve sold it too me! Will make a start on GoTM. Do you think immersion reading with audiobook would help understand?
Yeah that would help! Getting the Google doc on the book for chapter summaries helps a lot too!
that's what i did and it helped a lot!
I can't say I understood everything that was going on, but this is definitely one of the most intriguing books and start of a series I've read.
I have two takes on whether or not this series is good for new fantasy readers:
From a purely fantasy point of view, I think this is the perfect series to start with. So many people say they struggle because it doesn't follow the familiar narrative beats of following a few characters, giving you heaps of backstory etc, (even saying it's poorly writen becuse if this) and if that's what you've come to expect then it makes sense that Malazan would feel off. But if you don't have all of these expectations and ideals of 'this is how a story should be told' then it feels very natural. In fact, it becomes strange to read more traditionally written books because you are left wanting more out of them.
From a philosophical standpoint (which is a huge part of this series), I think a younger person reading this would gain a lot of understanding of how complicated the world and people in it are. Malazan was the first adult fantasy series I read as a teenager, it was deeply impactful both in a literary and emotional sense and I am very grateful for that. I guess it's one of those life-shaping events for me. It's somewhat of a philisophy/documentary series in a fantasy skin. Sure all of the people and places are made up, but the things the characters do and feel are very real. Erikson's knowledge of anthropology and cultures is often overshadowed in this series despite it's massive influence.
There is merit to reading Malazan as a more mature person though. The philisopical themes and emotional messages do hit more once you've experience more of life (death of loved ones, exposure to more cultures, hardship etc). It becomes less of a learning experience and more of 'damn, that's how i felt when that happened to me'.
That said, it has ruined me for getting into new series and authors (especially ones with less 'flowery' prose and/or simpler worldbuilding)
Bro had to put on his thinking cap on.
No way! There is absolutely NO WAY that YOU, Matt, gave "Gardens of The Moon" 5 Stars. I think this is the opportunity to find a reason to believe the gods are speaking to me through you to finally read this.
LOL
neat pal
I wanted to stay away from Malazan, but now I kind of want to read it
Why would you want to stay away from it?
Go with your gut and don’t waste your time on this pretentious self indulgent drivel hidden in a fantasy setting. Most overrated author of all time for sure.
Yep, pretty much worth it.
For me, the thing that will make or break this series is the ‘funny’ characters. I’m thinking of Kruppe but there’s also one in DHG whose name escapes me.
If you find them funny, no worries. If on the other hand you find them the most excruciatingly annoying characters ever written, as I did, it makes an already difficult series almost unbearable.
That’s said, I have the highest of respect and admiration to the author for this series, even if I bailed out at book 5
Woah Matt has de-aged like 25 years with the addition of the hat
11:39 Genebackis is pronounced with a hard "G" (like in garden 😊)
I don't think saying there is no info dumb because nothing gets explained is as big of a praise as you think
It does get explained, it's just not in your face and takes a long time to piece together.
I’ll never understand why the fanatics of this series get so ecstatic about not knowing what’s going on for the majority of the time. Feels cultish
@@RLX5201 You do know in general what's going on. But there are important secrets that take a while to reveal.
When you don't have any other work or major purpose in life
You turn into a booktuber😂😅
Are you saying I don't have a job or purposes in life? I'm a chief of staff for a politician, a father of two, husband, and sports coach.
Wuchu talkin' bout?
I’m almost done with my third read of Malazan. I think people vastly overstate its difficulty. You just have to read carefully, for the most part.
In Gardens of the Moon, there are a few elements that are crucial to the ending that are introduced way too late, and not explained at all until later books (if at all). It’s not clear to me that anyone fully understands what an Azath House is, including Erikson and Esslemont.
One other thing that strikes me as funny here: much of the reasons you are praising Malazan here are close to, if not exactly, the reasons you disliked The Book of the New Sun. I guess that comes down to the element of trust. For whatever reason, you trusted Erikson, but you don’t trust Wolfe.
I think the problem with Wolfe is I didn't know what to expect when reading. I thought I was reading a book about "A" but it was really about "B" and I had no idea to even expect "B".
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews The funny thing is that you start thinking it’s about A, then you think it’s about B, but it may actually be about D or E. And then you understand, perhaps, that it’s been about all of them, and they all interrelate.
(And I still prefer Malazan.)
Such a fan boy lol
My fantasy hot take is how incredibly overrated this series is. Vague spoilers.
I don't think the emotional beats really hit at all, because so many people Ascend that you basically stop caring when people die, and by the end of it, so much awful shit had happened I was just completely numb to awful shit happening and didn't care about the vilest stuff in the series, like the Hetan thing for instance.
I know that's basically the opposite of what Erikson intended, but that's always been my take on it. The ending is good though, and there is some great stuff in there like Karsa's arc, Tehol and Bugg, etc.
I agree with you on all of that, both good and bad. Another thing that made me not care for characters and made every single death scene completely pointless is that everyone either comes back to life, or appears in some other warren (whatever those are), essentially nobody really ever dies. And don’t get me started on multiple characters suddenly deciding to go by a completely new name for no reason halfway through the story…
Sounds like something to cry about on Reddit
@@slidenaway Explaining things that didn’t work for you isn’t equal to ‘crying’ about them👍
@@RLX5201 then maybe they should have said that instead of saying the series is overrated and saying “you” instead of “I”
Just saying the overall tone isn’t “this didn’t work for me”, it’s “this is bad”
Absolutely loathed this book.