Prince of Nothing: The Darkness That Comes Before (spoiler free review)
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
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R Scott Bakker, K J Parker, R J Barker. I can’t keep anything strait
I find myself picking up this book and reading the odd page or random chapter just to dive back into the world for a few moments. It had such atmosphere and the prose is unmatched in my opinion.
If you like the first book you'll probably enjoy the whole series. I'm re-reading it for the third time now with friends on the forum
That's awesome, I can't wait! Great to hear from you Steve!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews we’re doing a part at a time every other week on the podcast and on Varsha channel if you’d ever like to join us Matt!
My favorite series and author. Since I finished the seventh book 4 years ago I have not stopped contemplating of these books. I have already reread them twice, each time even more rewarding.
In general I do not think there are many similarities with Malazan. Both authors are insightful but Bakker is more focused in his storytelling and characterization. He is not meandering with countless characters and arcs. He is more philosophical while Erikson is more of an anthropologist. Bakker is much darker in the long run and in my opinion he is a better writer as prose goes. Bakker has an incredibly way with words. He has such gravitas. He writes with such purpose. He has this uncanny ability to describe abstract feelings. Tension, awe, dread, immensities. It grips you. His writing is almost scriptural.
I really hope you will love these books but they are the most underrated fiction I can think of. This is the best debut of an author in the genre as far as I concerned. Along with a Game of Thrones. But in my opinion Bakker only gets better and more powerful in his writing as he goes forward. The last two books of the Second Apocalypse, the Great Ordeal and the Unholy Consult are the most powerful, bleak, apocalyptical true epics I can think of. I just cannot stop thinking of them all the time!
P.S. Really be careful with spoiler because Bakker is relentless
P.S. Goodread is 3.8. I really think it is because it is really bleak and explores controversial themes in a thought provoking way.
P.S. Cnaiur is my favorite character
Cnaiur is pretty cool, but I found myself really liking Cleric and Varalt Sorweel. I've tried to message Bakker on his blog page to rouse any word on whether he will add to this novel series, and share with him the idea I had with Kellhus, but, obviously, he didn't reply and there is still, as of yet, no word on whether these stories will continue. It's sad because this is my favorite series outside of _The Lord of the Rings_ . Such a fantastic world setting and incredibly complex back story. It's weird that people rave about Sanderson and Erickson when Bakker blows these guys out of the water. To each their own, but the measure of these books--characters, setting, plot, creativity, philosophy, back story, prose--is objectively better than so many other books out there. Underrated doesn't scratch the surface when discussing these books.
Such an underrated series. Can't understand the mixed reviews. Amazing set of books.
OMG another converted. My favorite fantasy of all time Prince of Nothing/ Aspect Emperor
100% agree with your take on the worldbuilding and how it just feels alive and real. Many fantasy series these days just say (the north is cold with ice and the south is warm with sand) and call it the day but with this one you can easily tell why it took Bakker 20 years to create this intricate and nuanced world
So glad to see R. Scott Bakker getting discovered by a few booktubers here and there over the past couple years, I think he deserves to be in the conversation not just for "top 5 grimdark fantasy series of the 21st century" but top ONE of that list and top 5 fantasy series, period, of all time. Every time I see a listicle or top X youtube video that his Second Apocalypse books aren't included in for fantasy, it makes me sad because he should be in those conversations but people just don't read him!
Bakker is one of those writers who easily could have written literary fiction that would have wound up with glowing reviews in New Yorker magazine but he stuck with the speculative fiction genres he loves, kinda like Gene Wolfe (and he's inspired in part by Wolfe, as well as obviously Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay, Frank Herbert, etc as well as Cormac McCarthy and other literary giants), and I will always respect him for elevating the genre...and be eternally disappointed that no one puts him up there in the best of the genre where he belongs! As a prose stylist he really has very, very few equals in the fantasy genre and his characterization and world building are MIND BLOWINGLY good! I wish he was more widely read, he really deserves it.
I don't really see the Malazan connection short of Erickson and Bakker's use of language is amazing. Bakker has an uncanny ability to set the mood of a scene and often a sense of.dread and impending doom. You are just waiting for something bad to happen, then something worse does
Bakker is the only real grimdark author I can think of. Abercrombie maybe if you squint.
People love or hate these books due to a lot of the graphic subject matter.
Yes, lots of walking and talking. But the characters are fascinating and the action picks up a lot in Warrior Prophet.
But these books do worm their way into your head and just won't leave.
This is on my top 10 all time list.
Re reading this now. Starting Aspect Emperor next year. Brilliant
Phenomenal book. I was blown away by it as you were. It continues to surprise me how this series fails to get talked about alongside many of the beloved heavyweights of fantasy. It deserves it.
You know what? This has been marinating in my TBR pile. I think it is high time I get this series started. Thank you FBI agent!!
Yes, this is one of my top 3 along with malazan and book of the new sun! Absolutely phenomenal, and I wish there where more like this
I have all these three in my TBR😮
Book of the new sun?
@@9snaga book of the new sun by gene wolfe
The Second Apocalypse is my favorite fantasy series. The Prince of Nothing trilogy really had me at attention when I first read it, but the follow-up The Aspect-Emperor tetralogy blew my mind. I think about The Great Ordeal and The Unholy Consult all the time as if I just set the books down even though it's been 4 years since I read them. Really interested in hearing your thoughts as you progress through the series.
The amount of people that get put off from this series because of things they’ve heard about it before even giving it a try don’t know what they are missing out on. NO ONE can finish this series and tell me it’s not one of the best stories they’ve ever read.
Also best final line ever to end a series. The Great ordeal and Unholy consult will stay in your head years after finishing
So many truths in your comment. Those last two books are the most powerful fiction books I have read
Probably my fave series, and it is consistently awesome throughout.
I knew you would love this one! It’s the perfect balance of grimdark grit, fascinating worldbuilding and philosophical musings.
Wich were the filosofical musings of the book?
@@adamnesico Start with Gnosticism. The title suggests the nothingness that pre-exists our existence. Your state of consciousness is preceded by an unmeasured, unknown state of darkness. As was the universe. Have you read the books?
@@jasonuerkvitz3756 the first one.
Erickson, Esslemont and Bakker.. Canadian authors for the win!
Matt, you are one of the few people who finally convinced me to start Malazan (very grateful for that btw). Recently finished MOI, and I'm absolutely loving the series! It's truly EPIC, and Erikson is a genius. End of. The funny thing is, I also happen to have TDTCB on my shelf, and seeing quite a lot of Malzan fans saying what you mentioned here - that it's the closest thing to Malazan, has me excited.
Second is the best one, I thought.
Nice to see that you liked it! The Second Apocalypse is pretty divisive, but it's definitely something special. I was quite obssessed with this series for a long time and still remember it fondly. The name is pronounced "Baker" btw.
"The name is pronounced "Baker" btw."
According to the author himself, yes. But I've been stubbornly insistent for a number of years that he is just plain wrong. Dude's mispronouncing his own name, IDC.
The Warrior Prophet will get Ya Mahn. Took Me some time to get into Book 1 but once I started TWP I was hooked and also grasping better what was happening and the style...finished the Trilogy and the Four Books after back-to-backk..
Color me surprised you like this book. As others have said, it’s pretty divisive. Bakker’s prose is amazing. Glad you enjoyed it and continue to read the series. Can’t wait to see your reaction to the next one. The second book is my fav. Bakker’s magic descriptions are metal as all hell. Good stuff!
Glad you liked it! These are my favorite books by my favorite author. I'm confident you'll love the rest of The Prince of Nothing. Cheers!
You are so lucky to start this series. It is a revelation. It is good in the best way. I've read it 3 times. Enjoy!
So damn good. I got turned onto this series awhile ago by Slowly Red here on RUclips and its been an awesome ride.
Glad you liked it, I finished The Unholy Consult - the final book of sequel Aspect Emperor series a few weeks ago and I was so blown away. As much as I love The Darkness that comes Before it only gets better, in fact I now believe Bakker is the greatest living author. I read all seven books more or less back to back with only LeGuins "Lathe of Heaven" to break up the early books. By the time I was at Aspect Emperor there was no reading anything else till I was done. Cheers.
The Aspect Emperor books are just mind blowingly dark and epic! What a mix
@@Red21Viper absolutely , i stayed up all night finsihing Unholy Consult, holy shit.
The writing is super good. Haven't quite gotten into it yet. Will give it another try tonight as I just wrapped up Tyranny of Faith and am taking a break from Queen Robin Hobb of whom we are not worthy.
Yes Matt! I knew you'd love it. It's so damn good
On paper I should have loved this. Malazan is my favorite series, I love grimdark, I love expansive stories without good vs. bad settings. I also love the holy war frame of the story. But after finishing the 3rd book I decided not to read further. It ultimately didn't click for me. Bakker writes great prose but he's also incredibly horny with never ending weird sex and rape scenes (there's scenes where inanimate objects get penetrated...). Not the first author who writes gratuitous sex and sexual violence this but he was getting overboard with it, especially later in the trilogy.
Another problem for me was Kellhus. I couldn't stand him as a main character, but unfortunately in a "I don't want to read about him" way. Uninteresting, gary sue infallible kind of protagonist. So yeah, you lost me with Bakker but still I'm happy for you to have found a new series that you like :)
Wow, didn't expect you to like this series. This is very out of comfort zone for most readers, me including, sadly, read only one book so far.
Such a great series. Baffles me how its so underrated.
Will reread it many times im sure! Glad you loved it!!
Great series, I read it years ago and definitely in the works for a re-read. Aspect Emperor is the next series, its 4 books I believe. I found its darkness and bleakness to really suck me in in a way I can't quite explain, it really stuck in my mind. Some scenes I replayed over in my head after I'd put the book down and thinking about the characters experience and what they'd been through and pondering where exactly they were going to go next. Almost like a morbid fascination you get when watching serial killer documentaries lol. Nice to see people picking this up and talking about it. I agree the prose is fantastic and though it's bleak and dark, I never felt it was gratuitous in the sense that it was just there for people who enjoy suffering. More like, even in all this, people still struggled to be something more, to fight through it and challenge it as best they could.
So, this series is just goreporn, thats its target audience?
I didnt found this really interesting, neither I find interesting the serial killers.
@@adamnesico no.
It's been close to 20 years since I read this and I still think about it at times. It's a hard read in more ways than one but, in my opinion, a worthwhile one. I do not know if I'll ever re-read it though, as I grow older I find that I gravitate towards more optimistic tales :P
I have so much big fantasy to catch up, but I want to read this eventually and I'm so glad it gets talked more about because it sounds amazing! Also love your editing, the little animations on the book covers are always very cool!
This book has been on my radar because I've been finally reading through Malazan and the Malazan-heads seem to recommend this frequently! Glad to hear you liked it, which probably means I'll enjoy it as well once I finally get around to it haha
I believe it’s pronounced as Baker
I love this series of books…
Very underrated in my opinion…
It's on my TBR shelf thankyou for the review
Yes, this book is fantastic! The last two in the first trilogy is also fantastic. I love the ending. The second part is also great, but it starts off so slow and boring.
This series has been in my TBR for a while now. I agree with everything you said about grimdark and those types of serious/grim stories, they have something about it that makes them very enjoyable. I need to read this!!!! Thank you for confirming that this series is for me.
So so glad You loved it so much! I read the first trilogy and it was great! For some reason I thought You will not like it or even hate it! Fortunately I was wrong!😂🤣
Yes Yes Yes!! I was definitely one of those telling you to read this series. I thought you would either hate it or it would be one of your favorite series. I can't wait to hear what you think about The Warrior Prophet because it blows Darkness out of the water imo. Great review Sir.
I CANNOT WAIT! Thanks for putting this on my radar :)
I do think this is a very underrated series. Baker had the skill of Roofuls as a writer, then this series would be in peoples top 5.
Instantly added to my TBR!
this makes me happy knowing that I have the books sitting on the shelf and worried that it wouldn't land for me
So excited for the Second Apocalypse content! It definitely has a tighter scope than Malazan, and I think we can safely eschew the discussion of which is better. They're both true works of literature, and alongside the beloved GGK they make up the Canadian fantasy trifecta.
The third trilogy is becoming a reality, so I'm planning a reread for when those come out!
Third series coming? Where do u got that?
@@adamnesicoSorry, I thought I replied lol. It's only based on what his brother has said, and there was new content online.
I may end up eating those words, but I'm optimistic that he will return
When it comes to fantasy genres grimdark is goat imo!
Just finished the first book a few days ago as well. I enjoyed it and the narrator is pretty good. It took me a little while to understand what was going on but now it feels clear in my mind.
Malazan is next..
I know what you mean! Just like you I love to be pleasantly surprised.
Really enjoyed your thoughts on this Matt! It wasn’t a great book for me, but I enjoyed it enough to continue…someday. 😂
Loved the first trilogy. The Quartet was very grating after a while.
I loved first book! However, while I enjoyed the rest of trilogy as well, none of them toped the TDTCB. Can't wait for rewiew of The Warrior-Prophet :)
I agree... This book doesn't have any light moments.. It's not like Other grim dark such as First Law It's really different.. It's Grim Grim Dark.
TSA is incredible, but yeah its not for everyone. I, like you, love its prose, its world, its characters, everything about it, but many find the prose overwrought, the world too large and unexplained, its characters unlikable and unrealistically grand and brutal. Bakker is pretty clear he isn’t looking to be palatable or average lol.
Good luck on the slog, The Warrior Prophet is my second favorite of the entire series, and my favorite of the trilogy so have fun with it!
Many of the negative reviews. from what I have seen, are to do with the perceived sexism in the book (and that criticism is probably warranted, I'm maybe not the best person to comment on it). The few female characters in these books, especially the first series, don't seem to have much agency, and the world is incredibly patriarchal. If you can get past that fact, then this is one hell of a ride. I think the second series was actually better than the first, and you can tell that they are supposed to be read together as one series. Hope you continue to enjoy!
It's pronounced like Baker.
The logos is without beginning or end.
commenting for Bakker exposure
This was an obvious 5 star for you. Can't wait to see the review of Book of the New Sun - I don't think you will love that one as much.
I've been really hesitant to read this one. I don't think I like grimdark, although I love Malazan and First Law. I just have the impression that this series is too dark for me.
I read only the first book of both Malazan Empire and The Second Apocalypse and Bakkers book is so much better
Hands down
I tried reading it once. But too difficult with the many names, achools, history, politics, factions et c.
This is on my TBR for probably 2025, my next big series is wars of light and shadow.
You plan your reading 2 years in advance?!?
@MattsFantasyBookReviews no, not really. Just for these big dense series, I know I can't do it next year, so I'm just saying 25 for now. It could always be sooner, or later. I don't wanna read two huge dense series at once.
Example being I really wanna read wars of light and shadow. But I need to finish malazan first, so that's next year. And so on, haha
What would you recommend? Reading Malazan or the prince of nothing first?
Still Malazan for me.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Thank you ,Matt! I will be starting it now.
My favourite series is Malazan, but there was way too much philosophy.
I also love WoT and Stormlight but they are a little too YA.
First law had incredible characters but I found the plot disappointing and the world building too shallow.
Faithful and the Fallen could have been my favourite but some plots were repetitive and I lost interest during the third book.
So my question is…for my next series should I read Realm of the Elderlings or Prince of Nothing?
Bakker has one of the best settings in fantasy, but also one of the most watered down narrations.
I've heard these books are the grimdarkest of the grimdark and people have avoided or stopped reading them for being too bleak.
Is true they are very dark, but they are still a kids tale compared to The Road or Blood Meridian of Cormac McCarthy.
He is the true grimdark king.
@@adamnesico kids tale lol....man you have only read the first book and talk like you know everything of these books from some summaries. Trust me you have no idea how bleak they are in the long run.
@@Red21Viper The Aspect emperor was a commercial faiure, so wasnt translated in my country .
I read about them, I know how they end.
Maybe the series would have continued if the author wouldnt have dropped to half the sales by being a stupid uncreative mysoginist.
@@adamnesico the series is finished and generally you have no clue of what you are saying. Its so funny to see such negative passion by someone for something he has no read
@@Red21Viper it was planned a next series, in fact the last book hinted it.
Its finished because the commercial failure didn’t enabled to continue it.
Is true that the last perfectly serve as final, but that wasn’t the plan.
Life is too short for read books that one doesn’t enjoy.
The third book was tuff to get through
1:52 Many people reject Malazan because they dislike the first book.
It could be nice a video about alternate staring orders for Malaz, as the series isnt linear.
I'd start by book 2 or 5.
2:41 Of course was influenced, both authors are canadian scholars, Malaz premiered in 1999 and this book in 2003.
2:58 I'd resume all in a word + an acronym: Grimdark LotR
8:41 Its curious how a traduction can enhance or ruin a book. I really loved the Witcher, the traduction was excellent. Everyone says that in english is othing special, must be bad tradcuted. Here I felt nothing what you comment about the words, I guess the traduction to spanish is mediocre.
11:04 Hehehe. I hate grimdark, it feels unreal, reality isnt so bleak. Characters may be more real, but the world isn't.
For me everything felt plagiarism from LotR.
Seriously, you didnt got ALL the similarities?
So, Malaz is like this? Uf, keeps lowering in my list of priorities.
Well, for me, this book left my cold, I wondered if read it more. I read resumes of the next book, and Kellhus was incredibly overpowerred. Knowing too that he is the only blonde character who knows filosofy( like the author) this felt an irreal masturbatory power fantasy, so I chose to not follow it.
Time later I chose to read a resume of all the saga.
The plot twist of the third book was good, it partially explained the "All was too easy"
I lamented to not follow it.
I kept reading about the next tetralogy, wich aniways isnt tranlated, and
XDXDXDXD
with good reason.
I seriously think this is gonna be the greatest disappointment ever for u.
Enough to say, the editors refused to continue the series, it even seems the last book was written only for contract, they were already tired of the series by the point.
Good series but no malazan
I'm getting triggered by way he's pronouncing Malazan.
It's the way the authors say it!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Well then the author is wrong haha. I enjoyed your The Darkness that Comes Before review dude. I finished the book 2 days ago and agree with you 100%.
Welcome to peak of literature, nothing you read outside of Bakker will never be as good as him
thats ur impression, for me it was just a grimdark LotR/ author masturbatory fantasy.
And the third par of the series ws cancelled due to how bad was the second.
@@adamnesico well for some the content might be a little complicated!
@@dadefectivedunyain 🐮 females isn’t complicated, is the opposite.
@@adamnesico if things are going over your head i would suggest you read the series again. But i think that brandon sanderson is more your level so maybe start there
@@dadefectivedunyain
So simple is?
Ive never read Brandon.
What did u saw of cool in this book.
And can u explain me the author filosofy in this book?
I didn’t got it.
Or simply apears in later books?
And again, 🐮 females aren’t complicated, the author didn’t wanted complex women, that was probably what ruined the series for the audience.
And Brandon Sanderson world building is more complex and creative than this plagiarism.
Oh those books. The first three have lots of good points (and lots of bad) the other trilogy continues to dwell in the author fetishes and it just couldn't keep reading. One can take that much surprise buttsex and cuckolding without it geting way old.