The sexism and treatment of women in this series is a message, part of the themes, and you get it. It frustrates me to no end when people bash the Second Apocalypse series for the, frankly, feminist grimdarkness of being EXTREMELY thorough in showing what patriarchy and misogyny do to a society, to women in society and even the ways in which patriarchy harms men (and can be exploited by those attuned to those harms) in a way that is hard to notice on a shallow read but extremely obvious on a deeper read. The grimdark fantasy genre so often does harm to women for "grimness" sake, just to be "dark", and there is absolutely much much more to that in the Second Apocalypse books. I won't spoil anything, but there is big expansion of those feminist themes in the even grimmer and even darker tetralogy that follows the Prince of Nothing trilogy, and in a way that I think is maybe more obvious to drill home that it was always present.
The Second Apocalypse blew me away when I read it. I dnfed every fantasy book I picked up, for almost two years after, because it gave me such a series hangover. The Warrior Prophet is one of the best books I have ever read, but I found the final three books of Aspects-Emperor to be even better. I really appreciate how commited Bakker is to staying true to his vision even when it means that it will hurt sales. A lot of fantasy fiction gets too caught up in pandering and fan service; it's a breath of fresh air for me when I come across a work in the genre that's not afraid of being confrontational and thought provoking. The thing I like about both Bakker and Steven Erikson is that they just drop you into their worlds and let things unfold organically.
I believe I read the first book in this series after watching one of your vids. And I just finished the Warrior Prophet yesterday so this video was perfectly timed. My thoughts are the same... This book is absolutely brilliant, brilliant! There are definitely tons and tons of names thrown out there, especially in battle scenes, and even though 10 of them may be ones you've never heard of until that page, it all adds to the chaos and depth of the world. I hope that as more book tubers read this series, the more recognition R Scott Bakker duely receives.
I'm so happy your are enjoying this series. It's one of my favorite series ever and it just keeps getting better. Welcome to the Slog of all Slog my friend.
Oh man, I’ve been waiting for this! What an excellent review, Matt! Regarding the patriarchy/misogyny, etc., Bakker is taking pains to show (and not tell) a world where our cast of characters are entangled in systems of judgement and morality. Esmenet and Achamian are prime examples, with morality and magic seemingly mutually exclusive. Bakker brings up jnan and benjuka as well to illustrate the tension of being a small actor in a world of systems that define everything about your life, and everything you can do. What comes before determines what comes after, no? He then inserts a character who is uniquely able to perceive this tangle, who can see how everyone is suffering and what everyone fears, and from this point on the reader knows they are watching an unknowable, mechanical intellect play with great forces, deep emotions, and traumatized characters. We also see that he has the power to emancipate, if he chooses…
"Entertaining" is not the word. "Engaging" is the word for me to describe the SA series. Intellectually and emotionally, I have been thoroughly engaged in this narrative.
It's been some time since I read both this trilogy and the follow-up quartet, but your saying that this is bleak/grim/etc. feels entirely spot on from what I recall. After hearing what tropes are in the more recent times, I think of this overall as a unique twist on a chosen one trope, not singularly, but definitely has that sense for me.
Excellent video. A couple of things that really stand out Bakker from what Erikson does in my opinion is that it is a more tight story and very importantly what you mentioned too. Erikson is way too fantastical. I understand many people love that but for me thats why Bakker's storytelling is much more impactful. It feels more real, more relatable. It has a scriptural feeling like it tells about the actual tribulation's times of real damned world. Things happening have impact. Have gravity. When it happens it is special. It cannot be undone. Its Doom. In the end it all comes to Bakker's powerful, versatile, economical writing. I cannot think of any other author in the genre who can stimulate my thinking in so many ways with such few words in a sentence. Everything is so well thought and placed. So beautifully stated. The dialogues are gripping. The foreshadowing is so subtle. The thematic experimentation so meaningful. No other has such an uncanny skill in describing abstract feelings in such a striking way. Feelings of dread, tension, belief, awe, the sheer overwhelm of an immensity etc etc. I respect people who say he might be self indulgent but come on. Writing is an art. We read hundreds of books. Something must stand out. Art must be transcendental. Bakker transcends the genre. He expands its limits. I think that If you keep up with the same mindset you are going to love the series. Bakker will not hold our hands. He will not care for our emotions. He will just lead us down to an apocalyptical vertigo that If you appreciate how he does that he is going to mark you. A little hint. The next books are pretty much the sequel of what happens in the Prince of Nothing. The first trilogy is the foundation for what will follow. In my humble opinion, the last two books are the most powerful, devastating, epic books I have read.
That's what I like about both series, both are offering something different (and more complex, and richly nuanced) to what a lot Fantasy usually offers. I hold both deeply, and whichever I prefer changes on the daily it seems 😅 Just depends what you're after.
I read this series like 15-20 years ago. Now, when I read First law series I think that it is very popular. But as I remember Scott Bakker wrote better books. It is strange that nobody talks about him
This is my favorite series, and my favorite author to boot! Really glad to see so much love for it, and I'm looking forward to your reaction to The Thousandfold Thought (which, as it so happens, I'm actually getting ready to re-read). Cheers!
R. Scott Bakker is the greatest living author IMO and so glad you too are deeply affected by these books brilliance Matt. Perhaps when you get to the Aspect-Emperor series you should do yourself a favor and schedule time to read the entire series without breaks, it will save you time in the log run and increase your enjoyment. All seven books do really tell one amazing story.
Oh I read the first one and it was interesting. Took me awhile since I was traveling during January. I had to chip at it slowly and it was really interesting. Unfortunately I got my big exams and assignments coming and I am like 20% into Knife of Dreams and I better not stray from my WOT path especially now that I got through books 7 to 10.
I’ve read this series, and can’t recall specifics about each book as I have an overall memory in my mind. But I echo everything you said, although I found it very hard to get through due to the density and bleakness of the story. A very very impressive series, that I’m very glad to have read, but I still can’t work out if I ‘enjoyed’ the reading process, as it is so dark.
This series is the only one that I can place near Malazan and to say this is 7 books compared to 20+ malazan books just goes to show how good the series is. If you like Prince of Nothing then Aspect emperor will blow you away because every aspect of bakkers writing gets better especially the characters. When you said this series scratched that itch for malazan... nothing will scratch post Bakker blues itch. Enjoy your journey on the Slog of Slogs
This series has been on my radar for a while, but I just don't know if I can get through it. Although, I put off reading First Law because everyone made it seem like this grim violent depressing story. And now that I've read it for myself, I wish I had read it 6 years ago. This series just seems worse than First Law though.
Yeah this series is much heavier than First Law, but it’s sooooo beautifully written that I think the trauma is worth it. You can always put the book down if it’s too much, and there’s no shame in that.
I'm a huge fan of this series. For potential readers: the whole Second Apocalypse series is 7 books. A trilogy called The Prince of Nothing, and a tetralogy called The Aspect-Emperor. The first trilogy is one of the best fantasy stories of all time, in my opinion. It deals with a lot of very deep themes about self-control, our place in the world and in society, and what forces control that, and how those forces influence us. People talk about the misogyny in these books a lot, and that's because it's there to make a big point about living in a world with an absolute objective morality that may not be a morality you are happy with. The second series is far bleaker (the first is already more grim than anything else I've read, but probably Malazan and Black Company come close if you've read those). These four books are where the metaphysics and deep worldbuilding really take off. They become very philosophical, and the plot begins to reach the insane heights. Everything about them is extreme, and there's a lot of thought food throughout. This series is definitely the one I found myself thinking about the most after finishing, even more than Malazan which is my favorite series of all time.
There was an idea to do a third series but the second series is the end and conclusion of the original story as Bakker had planned it, there's just room to write beyond if he wants to.
So tell us how you really feel... Bakker is a very deliberate writer whose prose is amazing. His scene setting and intensity he can invoke is amazing. This is the only series I would call grimdark in the original sense. But there is a lot of walking and talking, then Bakker shifts gears to something horrific. Some Xian history also helps as he isn't to subtle about his names - Inrithi, Golgotterath and Plains of Meggida for example. My frustration was the map was in the end. I would also hold off on the Appendix for Thousandfold Thought until the end as there is a lot there that might be a little spoilery. But everything you like here, Bakker takes to 11 in Aspect Emperor.
Havnt read any yet by this author, I'm highly interested! After quick Google search looks like no new works though by the author? Is he not writing anymore in this world?
He is now focused on raising his daughter/family. His brother recently commented that he suspects the author will write more in the series when his daughter grows up, but that's a ways in the distance. But the series is at an ending point so more books don't need to be written to enjoy this.
His wife is alive. I think he just focuses on life for now. Daughter included. His words. He reached the end he had envisioned when he started writing decades ago. Now I guess he boils on what will follow
The (current) final book is NOT the intended ending. He had always planned for a third series to finish the story. But as of now it's up in the air whether it will get written. But the current "ending" leaves a lot still up in the air (to put it mildly).
Glad you liked it. It's one of my favorites as well. Just so you're aware going in, book 3 has an Encyclopedic Glossary at the back that's literally hundreds of pages. Also, you're saying you just finished reading *that* scene right before recording this video?
You're definitely wading through the creme de la creme of modern fantasy writing. Bakker is my favorite fantasy author. He's what you get if you combine the worldbuilding of Erikson with a natural talent for prose that is rarely seen in fantasy. Much as I love the Malazan series, he can't write like Bakker. Bakker is more like Gene Wolf, but with a better narrative instinct. Anyway, the entire series slaps. The metaphysics are explained further as you progress through the series, and it was way more subtle than I ever expected. The way Kellhus, or his perspective, is kept at arms length through the series (with even less time spent with him in the later books), is deliberate and was a terrific way to keep him both inscrutable and compelling. His character arc reminds me of Bayaz from the terrific First Law series from Joe Abercrombie, where the standard fantasy trope that his character represents is subverted over time. Instead you experience the story through characters like Achamian and Esmenet who are sublimely written with the complexity and frailty of an actual person. And the Nonman King cried words that sting: "Now to me you must confess, For death above you hovers!" And the Emissary answered ever wary: "We are the race of flesh, We are the race of lovers."
I have heard good things and am intrigued by the premise of the story, but this is not the first time I have heard described as relentlessly bleak or without hope. I wonder what you or others who have read the series would say is the value of reading something that could be described as completely without hope? I do not think life is without hope, though it can feel that way at times. What is the value gained for you as a person by engaging in a story that presents a world without hope? Or do you have to get something from the other parts of the story and ignore the nihilistic elements?
While I am personally a huge optimist in life, and agree everything has some hope...I love these stories because of how different they are to virtually everything else out there. I've read so much fantasy that reading something that completely subverts everything you are used to is refreshing.
My perspective on nihilistic stories is that they help me find beauty in the real world, by forcing me to confront the ugliness in ourselves and our world and come to terms with it.
Yeah, I think I'm going to pass on this. I need some levity out of my books, some glimmer of hope, moments where something good happens to the characters. It's why I didn't like Assassin's Apprentice. It felt like Fitz was the Eeyore of characters, very little happiness in his life, and when he did find it, someone usually stomped it out of existence. However, I have found a lot of excellent reads through your reviews. I appreciate your generally non-spoiler reviews. And through you, I found one of my favorites reads in recent memory "Will of the Many".
These are the most pessimistic books I've come across in this genre so you're probably making a good choice. Imagine if in Lord of the Rings all of the main characters were destined to suffer in hell for all eternity, and Sauron was the only one outraged enough at this to try and avoid that fate by committing atrocities in the physical world.
@@sarugard9115 I thought the same thing I haven't read conan yet but u can't discard a book for the faults of their time its simply not the right way to rate a book
@@sarugard9115 No, it's not the books fault. But I am not reviewing books for people that were alive 100 years ago. I am reviewing them for people watching today.
Noone has noticed it? The author is a blonde psychologist. Kellhus is the only blonde character, knows psychology, and uses it for rule everyone. This sounds to me as some kind of ego self satisfaction power fantasy. What do u think about put an overpowered version of urself as the main character?
This one I had some hopes for a good series, but specially the second series of books made me hate it. Surprise butt sex and the fetishes of the authors just got worse and worse and I loathed it, the cool world building and some of the philosophies in conflict, like the magic, just being not worth it to swim in all that filth.
The sexism and treatment of women in this series is a message, part of the themes, and you get it.
It frustrates me to no end when people bash the Second Apocalypse series for the, frankly, feminist grimdarkness of being EXTREMELY thorough in showing what patriarchy and misogyny do to a society, to women in society and even the ways in which patriarchy harms men (and can be exploited by those attuned to those harms) in a way that is hard to notice on a shallow read but extremely obvious on a deeper read.
The grimdark fantasy genre so often does harm to women for "grimness" sake, just to be "dark", and there is absolutely much much more to that in the Second Apocalypse books. I won't spoil anything, but there is big expansion of those feminist themes in the even grimmer and even darker tetralogy that follows the Prince of Nothing trilogy, and in a way that I think is maybe more obvious to drill home that it was always present.
"War is not intellect. War is conviction." The Second Apocalypse is the greatest fantasy work of all time. It is literature and will survive us all.
"War is where the iron bones of the earth meet the hollow bones of men, and break them."
@@mikebrockett7179 "war is dark, black as pitch." You chose a great quote
The Second Apocalypse blew me away when I read it. I dnfed every fantasy book I picked up, for almost two years after, because it gave me such a series hangover.
The Warrior Prophet is one of the best books I have ever read, but I found the final three books of Aspects-Emperor to be even better. I really appreciate how commited Bakker is to staying true to his vision even when it means that it will hurt sales. A lot of fantasy fiction gets too caught up in pandering and fan service; it's a breath of fresh air for me when I come across a work in the genre that's not afraid of being confrontational and thought provoking. The thing I like about both Bakker and Steven Erikson is that they just drop you into their worlds and let things unfold organically.
Second Apocalypse is next level. Hope you eventually give Manifest Delusions a try.
I believe I read the first book in this series after watching one of your vids. And I just finished the Warrior Prophet yesterday so this video was perfectly timed. My thoughts are the same... This book is absolutely brilliant, brilliant!
There are definitely tons and tons of names thrown out there, especially in battle scenes, and even though 10 of them may be ones you've never heard of until that page, it all adds to the chaos and depth of the world.
I hope that as more book tubers read this series, the more recognition R Scott Bakker duely receives.
Pillars of the Earth, Second Apocalypse, Suneater... You've read a lot of greatest books you've ever read this year si far.
Sun Eater is another series that I found through Matt. Incredible incredible story.
It's been a great year!
I'm so happy your are enjoying this series. It's one of my favorite series ever and it just keeps getting better. Welcome to the Slog of all Slog my friend.
Oh man, I’ve been waiting for this! What an excellent review, Matt!
Regarding the patriarchy/misogyny, etc., Bakker is taking pains to show (and not tell) a world where our cast of characters are entangled in systems of judgement and morality. Esmenet and Achamian are prime examples, with morality and magic seemingly mutually exclusive. Bakker brings up jnan and benjuka as well to illustrate the tension of being a small actor in a world of systems that define everything about your life, and everything you can do. What comes before determines what comes after, no?
He then inserts a character who is uniquely able to perceive this tangle, who can see how everyone is suffering and what everyone fears, and from this point on the reader knows they are watching an unknowable, mechanical intellect play with great forces, deep emotions, and traumatized characters. We also see that he has the power to emancipate, if he chooses…
personally Esmenet is my favorite female character in fantasy. Her metamorphosis in Aspect Emperor is simply amazing
"Entertaining" is not the word. "Engaging" is the word for me to describe the SA series.
Intellectually and emotionally, I have been thoroughly engaged in this narrative.
Matt……please stop making me add to my TBR. I beg you
most relatable comment ever
Seriously
Very very relatable comment
The Second Apocalypse is high priority though. Do it. Add to your TBR.
I have The Darkness That Comes Before on order and should be here this week. You have given me great encouragement!
It's been some time since I read both this trilogy and the follow-up quartet, but your saying that this is bleak/grim/etc. feels entirely spot on from what I recall. After hearing what tropes are in the more recent times, I think of this overall as a unique twist on a chosen one trope, not singularly, but definitely has that sense for me.
For me is the best series after Malazan Book of Fallen. Great!
Excellent video.
A couple of things that really stand out Bakker from what Erikson does in my opinion is that it is a more tight story and very importantly what you mentioned too. Erikson is way too fantastical. I understand many people love that but for me thats why Bakker's storytelling is much more impactful. It feels more real, more relatable. It has a scriptural feeling like it tells about the actual tribulation's times of real damned world. Things happening have impact. Have gravity. When it happens it is special. It cannot be undone. Its Doom.
In the end it all comes to Bakker's powerful, versatile, economical writing. I cannot think of any other author in the genre who can stimulate my thinking in so many ways with such few words in a sentence. Everything is so well thought and placed. So beautifully stated. The dialogues are gripping. The foreshadowing is so subtle. The thematic experimentation so meaningful.
No other has such an uncanny skill in describing abstract feelings in such a striking way. Feelings of dread, tension, belief, awe, the sheer overwhelm of an immensity etc etc.
I respect people who say he might be self indulgent but come on. Writing is an art. We read hundreds of books. Something must stand out. Art must be transcendental. Bakker transcends the genre. He expands its limits.
I think that If you keep up with the same mindset you are going to love the series. Bakker will not hold our hands. He will not care for our emotions. He will just lead us down to an apocalyptical vertigo that If you appreciate how he does that he is going to mark you.
A little hint. The next books are pretty much the sequel of what happens in the Prince of Nothing. The first trilogy is the foundation for what will follow. In my humble opinion, the last two books are the most powerful, devastating, epic books I have read.
Respect your opinion I love the fantastical side of Malazan but no denying the genius of Bakker
@@neutral_narr of course. It s just my thing. I am not a fan of such worlds but I can understand the appeal
That's what I like about both series, both are offering something different (and more complex, and richly nuanced) to what a lot Fantasy usually offers. I hold both deeply, and whichever I prefer changes on the daily it seems 😅 Just depends what you're after.
I read this series like 15-20 years ago. Now, when I read First law series I think that it is very popular. But as I remember Scott Bakker wrote better books. It is strange that nobody talks about him
This is my favorite series, and my favorite author to boot! Really glad to see so much love for it, and I'm looking forward to your reaction to The Thousandfold Thought (which, as it so happens, I'm actually getting ready to re-read). Cheers!
Matt, I've 0 doubts this [Second Apocalypse as a whole] will at least end up as a Top 5 series for you.
R. Scott Bakker is the greatest living author IMO and so glad you too are deeply affected by these books brilliance Matt. Perhaps when you get to the Aspect-Emperor series you should do yourself a favor and schedule time to read the entire series without breaks, it will save you time in the log run and increase your enjoyment. All seven books do really tell one amazing story.
Oh I read the first one and it was interesting. Took me awhile since I was traveling during January. I had to chip at it slowly and it was really interesting. Unfortunately I got my big exams and assignments coming and I am like 20% into Knife of Dreams and I better not stray from my WOT path especially now that I got through books 7 to 10.
I’ve read this series, and can’t recall specifics about each book as I have an overall memory in my mind. But I echo everything you said, although I found it very hard to get through due to the density and bleakness of the story. A very very impressive series, that I’m very glad to have read, but I still can’t work out if I ‘enjoyed’ the reading process, as it is so dark.
This series is the only one that I can place near Malazan and to say this is 7 books compared to 20+ malazan books just goes to show how good the series is. If you like Prince of Nothing then Aspect emperor will blow you away because every aspect of bakkers writing gets better especially the characters. When you said this series scratched that itch for malazan... nothing will scratch post Bakker blues itch. Enjoy your journey on the Slog of Slogs
I definitely need to pick these up! Better than the first two books of Malazan... that is high praise from you!
My favorite series of all time, keep going!
Ive been waiting for this review. Its definitely 5 stars. Onto the Thousandfold Thought!
This series has been on my radar for a while, but I just don't know if I can get through it. Although, I put off reading First Law because everyone made it seem like this grim violent depressing story. And now that I've read it for myself, I wish I had read it 6 years ago. This series just seems worse than First Law though.
Yeah this series is much heavier than First Law, but it’s sooooo beautifully written that I think the trauma is worth it. You can always put the book down if it’s too much, and there’s no shame in that.
Matt i have no idea why im watching you review a book ill never read. But youve got my view good sir!
This series is great, with awesome prose very tolkenesque
Chain of Dogs but bleaker...interesting...I'm sold. TBR'd!
If you want a good book recommendation, try Voyagers of hell. Its awesome.
I'm a huge fan of this series.
For potential readers: the whole Second Apocalypse series is 7 books. A trilogy called The Prince of Nothing, and a tetralogy called The Aspect-Emperor.
The first trilogy is one of the best fantasy stories of all time, in my opinion. It deals with a lot of very deep themes about self-control, our place in the world and in society, and what forces control that, and how those forces influence us. People talk about the misogyny in these books a lot, and that's because it's there to make a big point about living in a world with an absolute objective morality that may not be a morality you are happy with.
The second series is far bleaker (the first is already more grim than anything else I've read, but probably Malazan and Black Company come close if you've read those). These four books are where the metaphysics and deep worldbuilding really take off. They become very philosophical, and the plot begins to reach the insane heights. Everything about them is extreme, and there's a lot of thought food throughout. This series is definitely the one I found myself thinking about the most after finishing, even more than Malazan which is my favorite series of all time.
There's also a third series that was planned to be the conclusion. Though at the moment it's unclear if it will ever be written.
There was an idea to do a third series but the second series is the end and conclusion of the original story as Bakker had planned it, there's just room to write beyond if he wants to.
@@smoothbrane Flat-out not true. He always said there was a third planned.
Oh wow awesome review, and you have me so pumped to start this series soon. Definitely at the top of the priority list!
It also has a sequel series, apparently. I’ll give the first trilogy a try, thanks!
So tell us how you really feel...
Bakker is a very deliberate writer whose prose is amazing. His scene setting and intensity he can invoke is amazing.
This is the only series I would call grimdark in the original sense. But there is a lot of walking and talking, then Bakker shifts gears to something horrific.
Some Xian history also helps as he isn't to subtle about his names - Inrithi, Golgotterath and Plains of Meggida for example.
My frustration was the map was in the end. I would also hold off on the Appendix for Thousandfold Thought until the end as there is a lot there that might be a little spoilery.
But everything you like here, Bakker takes to 11 in Aspect Emperor.
Havnt read any yet by this author, I'm highly interested! After quick Google search looks like no new works though by the author? Is he not writing anymore in this world?
He is now focused on raising his daughter/family. His brother recently commented that he suspects the author will write more in the series when his daughter grows up, but that's a ways in the distance.
But the series is at an ending point so more books don't need to be written to enjoy this.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews thanks, look forward to reading book 1 then!
His wife is alive. I think he just focuses on life for now. Daughter included. His words.
He reached the end he had envisioned when he started writing decades ago. Now I guess he boils on what will follow
@@Red21Viper Good to know, I'll edit my comment.
The (current) final book is NOT the intended ending. He had always planned for a third series to finish the story. But as of now it's up in the air whether it will get written. But the current "ending" leaves a lot still up in the air (to put it mildly).
Glad you liked it. It's one of my favorites as well.
Just so you're aware going in, book 3 has an Encyclopedic Glossary at the back that's literally hundreds of pages.
Also, you're saying you just finished reading *that* scene right before recording this video?
Another fantastic video! Thank you Matt!
I absolutely check out the back pages every time in a new book for anythign of the sort you mentioned, lel
I always flip to the back before I start a book. If the appendix doesn't seem spoilery, then I will read it before starting the story.
This series continues as good as it started and ends awesomely :D
You're definitely wading through the creme de la creme of modern fantasy writing. Bakker is my favorite fantasy author. He's what you get if you combine the worldbuilding of Erikson with a natural talent for prose that is rarely seen in fantasy. Much as I love the Malazan series, he can't write like Bakker. Bakker is more like Gene Wolf, but with a better narrative instinct.
Anyway, the entire series slaps. The metaphysics are explained further as you progress through the series, and it was way more subtle than I ever expected. The way Kellhus, or his perspective, is kept at arms length through the series (with even less time spent with him in the later books), is deliberate and was a terrific way to keep him both inscrutable and compelling. His character arc reminds me of Bayaz from the terrific First Law series from Joe Abercrombie, where the standard fantasy trope that his character represents is subverted over time. Instead you experience the story through characters like Achamian and Esmenet who are sublimely written with the complexity and frailty of an actual person.
And the Nonman King cried words that sting:
"Now to me you must confess,
For death above you hovers!"
And the Emissary answered ever wary:
"We are the race of flesh,
We are the race of lovers."
Matt you should do a malazan series ranking, including the book of the fallen and the other works set in the world sometime
Wow. Im sold. Adding to tbr
I have heard good things and am intrigued by the premise of the story, but this is not the first time I have heard described as relentlessly bleak or without hope. I wonder what you or others who have read the series would say is the value of reading something that could be described as completely without hope? I do not think life is without hope, though it can feel that way at times. What is the value gained for you as a person by engaging in a story that presents a world without hope? Or do you have to get something from the other parts of the story and ignore the nihilistic elements?
While I am personally a huge optimist in life, and agree everything has some hope...I love these stories because of how different they are to virtually everything else out there. I've read so much fantasy that reading something that completely subverts everything you are used to is refreshing.
My perspective on nihilistic stories is that they help me find beauty in the real world, by forcing me to confront the ugliness in ourselves and our world and come to terms with it.
Yeah, I think I'm going to pass on this. I need some levity out of my books, some glimmer of hope, moments where something good happens to the characters. It's why I didn't like Assassin's Apprentice. It felt like Fitz was the Eeyore of characters, very little happiness in his life, and when he did find it, someone usually stomped it out of existence. However, I have found a lot of excellent reads through your reviews. I appreciate your generally non-spoiler reviews. And through you, I found one of my favorites reads in recent memory "Will of the Many".
These are the most pessimistic books I've come across in this genre so you're probably making a good choice. Imagine if in Lord of the Rings all of the main characters were destined to suffer in hell for all eternity, and Sauron was the only one outraged enough at this to try and avoid that fate by committing atrocities in the physical world.
Fuck... Another Author to add to the list... Thanks Matt!
Great review! I should check this guy out... 😜
My favourite series by far, except for the sequel series which i love more
Annoying that this is not available in Canada in ebook format. I think Bakker is Canadian for crying out loud.
It's getting harder to find physical copies too 😢
You had me at overly sexist 😂
And by the way.
Noone has noticed this is a very grim very dark parody of Lord of the Rings?
Brace yourself for Aspect Emperor
The World of "The Second Apocalypse" depicts a truly godless world (for the "Gods" are demons you see ;)
why would you bash conan, a 100 year old book for being sexist
Cos it is?
I judge books for what they are today, not what they were when they were published.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews but thats ridiculous, its not books fault lol
Its product of its time
@@sarugard9115 I thought the same thing I haven't read conan yet but u can't discard a book for the faults of their time its simply not the right way to rate a book
@@sarugard9115 No, it's not the books fault. But I am not reviewing books for people that were alive 100 years ago. I am reviewing them for people watching today.
Noone has noticed it?
The author is a blonde psychologist.
Kellhus is the only blonde character, knows psychology, and uses it for rule everyone.
This sounds to me as some kind of ego self satisfaction power fantasy.
What do u think about put an overpowered version of urself as the main character?
Don't care, if the book slaps.
Having read the whole series that sounds hilarious
Where did you read that R. Scott Bakker is a psychologist? He's got degrees in Lit Theory and Criticism and studied Philosophy at the graduate level.
This one I had some hopes for a good series, but specially the second series of books made me hate it.
Surprise butt sex and the fetishes of the authors just got worse and worse and I loathed it, the cool world building and some of the philosophies in conflict, like the magic, just being not worth it to swim in all that filth.