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I think the biggest problem with Toriyama's movie works is that even according to Toriyama people don't consult him much about the movies. They give him way too much freedom, that's why Dragon Ball Super Super Hero is a thing. Toriyama literally didn't know that they were going to use the subtitle "super" after Dragon Ball that was fully unintentional. Toriyama has his ideas but often it seems nobody contest him and it is fairly obvious that he didn't regularly view the anime or manga even if he does have to approve of the manga. While Toyotaro and Toei clearly don't know how to write Dragon Ball at all. I'm fully convinced that much of DBS could be fixed by simply asking Toriyama a few pointed questions. Super is 90% a rehash of the original themes of DBZ but way worse, if Toriyama presented the plot-points to Toei and Toyotaro then one of them responded by pointing out Toriyama ALREADY DID THIS I think that Toriyama would go back to the drawing board. Maybe I just have too much faith in Toriyama, but the guy is clearly not an idiot just a bit of a goofball that needs to be challenged occasionally which is the cardinal sin of DBS. Modern DBS either doesn't involve Toriyama (so it sucks) or Toriyama is left completely unchallenged (so it varies in quality).
the name did fit doe because all the super heroes get stronger with rage like super man omni man even future trunks etc and in the movie both gohan and piccolo got a rage boost forms
not only does a world ending threat comes to their doorstep every couple of years, not only those world ending threats are becoming more and more powerful each time, but its also that gohan now has his very own family. so it doesn't make any lick of sense why this mf doesn't constantly train his ass off to, at the very least, protect his wife and child from these incoming threats.
Why would he? Goku and vegeta almost never need his help😭 I think he just wants to be a normal man with a normal family at this point. He know his dad and vegeta can handle anything he can/cant
@@playboypablo6784 did you watch even the video? since it already addressed this. the villains threatening earth couldn't care less what gohan wants and goku/vegeta cant be there all the time. we've already had a scenario like that in resurrection f when they had to buy time for those two to arrive. if freeza was a little bit more petty there and didn't play with them, he could've easily blown up the earth before those two arrived. there have also been plenty of other times ever since post cell saga in dbz when gohan could've been useful and turned things around if he only maintained his training and kept getting stronger instead of weaker. think pablo think
The major problem is that Goku and Vegeta are just relied way too much, and the thing turned worst with Super. It would be fine if Goku left the picture for a long time and Gohan was the one now fighting to defend Earth... Like it was supposed to be in the end of both Z and GT, but no... I guess we needed Clownku to make it's entrance and have everyone else get their jobber status unless the plot demands, like in the Super movies.
@@playboypablo6784 Sure it make sense at first but after Resurrection F, he shouldn't have slack off again. Dude get one shot or tortured by Freeza while Goku still isn't on earth. If there's a powerful foe that specifically target his wife and daughter then what? He want to get one shot again while his father isn't there to help him? Even DBS anime Gohan know this and start training again along with DBS manga Gohan where he train with Piccolo and he get his Ultimate form again in both media. But Toriyama straight up ignore this in the Superhero movie and just make him obtain Ultimate form and later Beast Gohan with barely any training.
@@TheTruestZero To be fair, it's been like that since Dragonball Z started. Gohan's role was to function as a punching bag and plot device in order to stall the villain until Goku showed up to actually beat them every since Vegeta and Nappa arrived. Everybody, not just Gohan, relied on Goku to show up to solve everything both during and before Dragonball Z. No matter how hard they tried, everybody else was basically helpless unless Goku was around as early as the 2nd World Tournament way back in Dragonball, where nobody else even came close to beating Tien. Though it isn't until the King Piccolo Saga that the "everybody is useless until Goku shows up to beat the villain" thing really got started. Gohan beating Cell was pretty much the only time in all of Dragonball that someone other than Goku was actually useful. This continues into Super. I'm not saying it's a good thing but "Goku is relied on way too much" it's really almost always been the case. At least Vegeta gets a real chance to contribute now too.
Well I mean, I haven’t heard anything good about his writing since the Broly movie, and before that BOG. I think Toei and Toyotaro have a good chance at being better writers than Toriyama, on account of him clearly having given up and not really truly wanting to do writing anymore.
@@XenoVibezz no they didn’t. They just said it’s something unique Gohan. That doesn’t explain it. By that logic, Super Saiyan Rage Future Trunks was explained lol.
Except we know it’s a plot deus ex power up to make Gohan temporarily relevant that occurred while he was in Mystic State. That somehow lets him eclipse everyone in one second despite spending all his time doing 0 training and just looking at ants.
The problem is they only really know how to tell one story with Gohan and it was never all that compelling to begin with and every time it was a shittier and shittier photo copy. They kind of had something going with ToP Gohan where they directly addressed how arrogant it is to rely on his immense potential as a crutch and how quickly he loses himself in his power the moment he has an upper hand. Then they resolved it in an episode. And then they gave him a fanmade joke form. Modern db writing in a nutshell.
Honestly Adult Gohan's best arc was done by Toei during the ToP. I think Super Hero was just Toriyama's version of Gohan getting his groove back... but was done way worse.
@@CAGExplains How was the Super Hero Movie worse? First of all you need realize Gohan isn't a fighter, cool it should've been portrayed better but the meaning to why he fights hasn't change and people like you don't realize it. Gohan only fights to protect not because he enjoys it and has limitless potential but only seems to tap into when the time needs like how he raged at Piccolo nearly dying and entered beast. A perfect representation of what he fights for and prompts him to fight. Lmao your like DygoKnight but for dragon ball. None of the characters were assassinatedit's just your reading comprehension and analytical skills to see what their about and what the story is about and what it leads to is ass, you don't understand a thing.
@@choppyhakusho nobody said he had to be Goku 2.0 but how many times has he learned that his power matters? All he wants is to be happy and study ants but if Goku and Vegeta fail then he can't do that. He doesn't have to be the #1 fighter but he should at least be able to hold off a villain.
@@ravencollins5638 Cool as I said before you don’t know the core of his character. He doesn’t want to be off training 24/7. He has a family to look after and he’s not always going to be training to fight another threat. He wants to study regardless of whatever you think he’s not a fighter and Piccolo knows this. He’s strong as it is and can hold off a threat when needed and if they’re in trouble then he has a reason to actually train.
You know the thing is, I don't even want Gohan to be a Warrior. He can stay the nerd, but let him be a HERO. Even if you want to say he doesn't like fighting, he want to protect everything he loves. Gohan should train for Android 16, for his Family, for all the memories he's made. Protect the earth, hell protect the galaxy if he wants to. Gohan is a Hero at heart, not a Fighter, and not a Slacker. He should do what he needs to in order to protect the earth like how Piccolo and Goku protected him.
You had me until you said he wasn't a slacker. The guy took a total of 12 years off (7 after Cell and about 5 after Buu). He's definitely a slacker. I mean, even after Beerus wrecked him, he let himself get weaker and got wrecked even worse in Resurrection F. He slacks. Superhero showed that too.
Yeah. I mean, Gohan can't even spare like a couple hours a day to train? Even just to keep himself in shape so he doesn't get weaker? I would accept Gohan getting his butt whupped and not being a training maniac so long as he at least maintained what he had and legit got his butt whupped despite that instead of spending years hardly training at all and get massively weaker as a result, over and over and over again.
@@immortalfrieza also he could use the time chumber like its right there its perfect do work train a whole year in a spam of literal minutes! its perfect
Gohan "has always hated fighting" ignores his character completely prior to the Cell Saga and after with the Great Saiyaman. "Gohan just wants to be a family man" proceeds to admit he hasn't paid attention to his own daughter due to his job. "He has been training off screen" where? The Super Hero movie arc and movie have him out of shape and only stated to train the special beam cannon. The cope his fans have of everyone but themselves "understanding" his character is crazy cause clearly they don't understand it lol. Respect to Toyotaro, really tried to make Gohan work until Super Hero became a thing.
Gohan's character was kind of ruined the moment Toriyama rolled back on the idea of him being Goku's successor as protector of Earth. He could have had Gohan continue training purely to fill that role out of a sense of responsobility. Because his experience has taught him that Goku won't always be around.
You should consider a video on Tien, Yamcha or both. These two have gotten sandbagged harder than anybody else in the narrative for literal decades since OG Dragonball and it needs to be studied.
yeah even original dragon ball yamcha was just there to job or do something funny. toriyama cared so little about writing him he basically just wrote him out of the saiyan saga instantly lol
If you're legitimacy a fellow Yamcha and Tien fan, don't worry. Just watch Saiyan Scholar's videos on Yamcha and Tien. They go in depth and he never disrespects their characters and takes them seriously the whole time.
The real shame is that toriyama is treated as justified when mishandling a beloved character rather than criticized for his inability to pivot and deviate from a very basic formula. Gohan is only as bad of a character as toriyama is a writer imo
That’s the thing about Akira Toriyama. He’s both the best thing and the worst thing about all the series he makes. And as the years go on we start to see the weaknesses and cracks in his material. Needless to say he just isn’t what he used to be.
Hes not writing with any care, he doesnt have editors that reign him in regarding to narrative decisions, and now he gets more incentives to lean in his tomfoolery with how marketable his product is, new form = $ Wasnt there an excerpt or interview where toriyama was so done with dragonball? Hard to believe he gives a shit with how often he forgets, now his attachment to some characters is brought into question
@@rowantic6539 nah, compare namek saga to this. Compare goku in the cell saga to the goku we have. Dragon ball z was just it even by today's standard, when i think of pride i think of vegeta no one else. Dbs is just bad tbh
@@maalikserebryakovNo, we simply wanted him to actually contribute something major to the plot like he did in the cell games, and unfortunately nothing he does is of any real consequence by the end of the manga.
Hot take: Dragon Ball Super is a completely unoriginal rehash of DBZ, just to cash in on the next generation. Why? Because EVERY CHARACTER REGRESSES AND HAS TO RELEARN THE THINGS THEY LEARNED IN DB/DBZ! Goku regresses to being his childlike self again and forgets martial arts training from his childhood (staying on guard). Look at Namek Goku and compare him to Goku now. You’d think Namek Goku was the more advanced one. Vegeta regresses to being jealous of Goku and trying to surpass him again, forgetting the resolution of him accepting Goku is better at the end of Z. Gohan regresses to edgy teen as his SSJ2 arc is just rehashed again. Heck, the very first arc of Z was meant to introduce a new setting (Goku was a Saiyan and the story was heading into space). And Super did the same thing just with Gods. Frieza is dredged up to be a main antagonist. Cell is dredged up again as well. Broly is completely rehashed and redone again. It’s just clear to me that Toriyama finished the story of Son Goku and his friends when Z ended. But because Dragonball is a gigantic cash cow, they can’t just let it end. So he just retells THE SAME STORY over and over with nothing new. No character progression. Just characters forgetting old lessons and relearning them over and over.
If you want Gohan to be a scholar then make him a scholar. Have him be really smart and know lots of things. Make him smarter than Bulma, or make it so than he can Analize and copy enemy techniques just by seeing them once. The story already has enough characters who are just strong with no other gimmicks. As such, actually seriously making Gohan into an actual Scholar would do a lot to make his character stand out. But that hasn't actually happened. Gohan hasn't invented or discovered anything of note. He hasn't really used his brain in a fight in a way that we haven't seen other characters do. He's just called a Scholar but dosn't do anything Scholarly.
The funny thing is, the japanese fanbase actually prefer this version of Gohan. Some are saying that he is easier to identify with after he basically became a salaryman. We have to remember that Toriyama mainly listens to his japanese fans. Heck, they were the reason Goku was brought back in the Buu saga. From my experience discussing DB-related stuff with japanese fans, I've learned that they care very little about character development. They just want to see Goku punch people.
That's the problem with asian people overseas. They have no real struggles, all they know is academics. Here in america, a slice of any life could happen to you at any moment. Dragon ball would THE greatest anime if the opinions of american fans would the main points of focus. End of discussion
2:30 You can tell in the clip and even in Wrath of the Dragon that they had the movie animated with Gohan powering up into super saiyan, but then had to edit it to keep him Ultimate. The little jump he does after powering up gives it away, that always happen when someone turns into super saiyan. If the movie was written with Gohan having lost the Ultimate form, and this was changed late enough that the scenes were already animated and had to be edited, it makes a lot more sense that later on Ultimate Gohan is as strong or stronger than blue. Else Beerus gets excited about fighting a dude weaker than the one he one shot earlier on. The best version of Gohan is the one we got in Moro arc of all things. He is someone that wishes to live a normal life as a scholar, but has also accepted that he is extremely powerful and his power is indispensable to protect his loved ones. Of course, Toyotaro and Toriyama dont interact when writing these things, so Gohan is back to being a loser in Super Hero. Speaking of lack of communication, it is clear that Toyotaro wrote Ultimate Gohan as just an improved base state for Gohan that makes his transformations obsolete (As many people assumed), but come Super Hero and nope, it is very clear that Ultimate Gohan is some sort of transformation, and it's differentiated from the Base form with the Buu saga hairstyle. My feelings for Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo are that they feel cheap and carelessly handed out. I wish they had more setup but i'm glad the characters are relevant again.
I agree on Moro being the best Gohan, he finally balanced being a scholar and a fighter. I've warmed up to Orange Piccolo although it could've been done better. Beast is just trash.
in all seriousness, the classic DBZ films gave Gohan more justice with his character since he went toe to toe with Second Coming Broly in his LSSJ form which is confirmed to be more powerful than when he was portrayed in his first movie and Daizenshu confirms Gohan was SSJ2 while fighting Broly and that he never stopped training for those 7 years. I get it Toriyama sees his negative attributes within him but you at least have to acknowledge that eventually one day that both Goku and Vegeta will be dead and there will have to be someone to protect the earth and it just feels robbed of every single ounce of potential imaginable to not have Gohan protect earth. Uub i like but come on, Gohan was always destined to succeed Goku as first shown with his potential.
I never understood Beast. The whole point of Potential Unleashed is that ALL of your power is out for you to use at once. You do not need to transform or anything else to access ALL of your power. So why give a TRANSFORMATION to the one technique that DOESN'T NEED A TRANSFORMATION?!
Ehhh honestly that is fine as children won't allways share the same likes and dislikes /follow in their dads footsteps. The real problem is that he fumbled the execution of his idea.
@@Eis_Cold He can admit that he hates fighting but also acknowledge his talents, alot of heroes hate the massacre filled world they are trying to fix, but fight anyway, its pretty much apparent that dragonball (post Z) is such a cash cow move, if you expect anything else... Sadge i guess
Considering that most of the fights Gohan was in as a kid involved his friends dying and him getting severely injured, it makes total sense that he’d hate fighting. However I feel like as an adult he should still keep training for pragmatic reasons like saving Earth even if he hates it.
Nah, he could have had Gohan transform with motivation on some Rhaegar Targaryen shit pretty easily. Hell, even Itachi was a traumatized pacifist. Reluctant leaders are often effective ones, think Michael Corleone. Toriyama just never had the motivation to give him an arc like that.
You know... I think I would've bought Beast Gohan a bit more if it happened in the Broly movie instead. Like if Gohan was involved in the fight and we saw Broly and Gohan try to out grow each other with rage. Broly serving as a foil to Gohan, an example to show Gohan how his rage could be used or misused. All of it ultimately culminating in Beast versus Berserker. Ultimate Gohan vs Ikari Broly then Beast Gohan vs SS Ikari Broly.
I laughed so hard when Beast was revealed. It made the rest of the theater VERY angry but I couldn't help it. He looks just like a Troll Doll from the 80's with the massive white hair.
I feel like Dragon Ball would be far better if people, mainly editors and fans, didn't put so much pressure on Toriyama. Gohan becoming a local super hero would have been a fine ending for him. A character who does like to fight but does not want to to get involved in these world ending struggles. I really wish the Buu saga was this instead. Let a character bow out when the author is done with them. Like Kuwabara in the last arc of Yu Yu Hakusho. His story was pretty much done. He does not go with the rest of the cast for the last arc and when you see him again in the last episode he is doing just fine.
Late comment but... You know what the worst thing about Beast Gohan is It's that the fans ate/eat it up despite how awful it is So in some sense Toriyama was right, Gohan being regressed back to his cell games self is what the "fans" wanted In any case, excited to see what Gohan will do in Daima to see Toriyama's final stance on Gohan (like excited to disect it and understand it I mean) Great Saiyaman? More like GOAT Saiyaman
To be fair, it wasn't Toriyama's vision to give beast to Gohan, he just slapped it on because akio iyoku (i think) told him to use Gohan. So beast is literally just a last second addition so that he could fit into super hero.
Gohan is an interesting character because the beats of his story are pretty sound. As a character he doesn't like fighting but has been thrust into it since he was an child. He's not interested in the dick measuring that Goku or Vegeta do, so it makes sense that once peace comes he'd want out of the game and enjoy life as a family man. It even makes sense for him to relapse a bit and grow weaker, now that his father is back in the picture he can rest a bit easy knowing that the world is relatively safe. How exactly does one handle the character after that? When a fight breaks out do you have him rush to the front lines or have him stand firm and not get involved. If it's the former you can use that as an eye opening moment for him to see that he can't rest in his laurels. If he had something worth protecting he can't rely on others to do it for him. And if it's the latter then just stick with it, have him not get involved and let him rationalize it as leaving it to those who enjoy the fight and want to get stronger. The main issue is that they choose both; having Gohan be in the front lines fighting for what he wants to protect but getting completely out classed. But instead of taking that as a learning experience he just goes on living the way he always does. So you're stuck with a character that's showing his faults but not doing anything to grow past them.
@@HunTer-ki1gihe’s always been one tho? That’s his character and it makes sense because he’s a half breed and his saiyan traits only come out when fighting/having to fight. It’s always been his nature to not fight
@@lordgrim355 no he hasnt? If u watched this dudes previous video it explains how he’s always liked fighting but toriama just decided to add the line where he said he doesn’t like fighting because toriama wanted to make the manga more relaxed and have way less action involved. Also him being a half breed and only being strong when he’s fighting doesn’t make sense either when you look at let’s say future trunks or even just regular kid trunks he’s a half breed but loves fighting and getting more powerful, so Gohan being a half breed wouldnt make any difference in fact half breeds are proven to be stronger than full breeds, toriama just has shitty writing sometimes so a lot of confusion pops up
Here's my version of Gohan: He took 16's sacrifice to heart and trains to protect people. Not to push his limits like Goku, or to dominate like Vegeta. Purely for protection. THIS is the foundation for Great Saiyaman. It's not just a gag, but Gohan constantly reminding himself WHY he trains. And Great Saiyaman is the basis for Gohan's gi. GREEN. Just like 16. Goku has Orange. Vegeta has Purple. Piccolo has Purple. Green is Gohan's standout colour. Besides, Great Saiyaman's outfit without the helmet, glasses, cape and durag looks AWESOME. I'd write it so Gohan is hiding his power level. Hell, I'd say that Gohan discovered Beast on his own. He trains in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber all the time becuase its the one place he can power-up without Goku sensing him. He's hiding his power because he knows that if Goku discovers it, he'll press Gohan to fight more - something Gohan abhors. Now, I would make Gohan the strongest member of the Z Fighters, but he only steps in when Goku and Vegeta are away or down. Gohan is the last resort. That way, he's not getting bullied for his lunch money by Freiza. I'd even have this attitude influence his fighting style. It's surgical, precise and deliberate. Remember how SSJ2 Teen Gohan seemed to slice enemies in half with punches and kicks? That's how Gohan fights. He wants the fight over ASAP. Again, he hates fighting. He wants it over quickly. I'd rewrite it so his "scholar" job is a doctor so he studies anatomy and learns pressure points. Contrast this version of Gohan to other characters and you have the chance for interesting scenes. Gohan and Goku arguing about the ToP. Gohan is horrified that his father is essentially genociding universes for a good fight. Gohan and Jiren. The reactive hero who only fights to protect as a last resort. The proactive alien who is a hero only so he can hunt strong people to overcome.
Typo on Vegeta's Saiyan Armor. Blue God Vegeta with the Gray Saiyan Armor was peak. Also made Rage Vegeta look badass. Ultra Ego is just meant to represent Destroyer Ki
Dont forget we never know what his job even is, its just a "scholar" job thing. Atleast Xenoverse decided to use it to make gohan a scholar on the foundations of mainstream ki control.
I'll say the only change I'll make with this version is that he doesn't train in the Time Chamber to hide his power level but rather because of its properties it allows him to train more without interfering with his daily life stuff, and have him maybe train or spar with Goku occasionally for the fun of it like a father son bonding time since we've seen that Goku does respects Gohan's choice of not fighting during the U6 Tournament (cuz he needs to attend a conference or something) and that Gohan does enjoy himself a good friendly fight akin to a sport activities
This is exactly why I like Gohan's character. Especially because I have a soft spot for Anime characters that are super light hearted 90% of the time. But then its like you flip a switch and they're a totally different person. Gohan even being afraid to fight or kill because of his rage, so he doesnt endanger people he cares about or the world and universe in general. Is just fitting for Gohan, I hate how he is handled. Not only that it seems most ppl hate his Beast Form, I dont really get it. I mean ppl make fun of SSJ 3 Goku and Gotenks for the big hairless brow and obnoxiously long hair all the time but Gohan's hair is "too much?" Or how it comes out of nowhere and stuff, I dont get the hate. I never got the chance to see the Superhero movie. So I had initially thought it was somewhat of a Ultra form like Instinct and Ego. Like a super mild manner man turning into a monster with the Bruce Banner kinda treatment is perfect Gohan honestly. Like Goku using Instinct to just flow and focus, or Vegeta's Ego to not have his pride or sense of self ego get in the way. Ultra forms are like a juxtaposition on what a character's mindset is in battle normally to make them their greatest version of themselves is so cool. Beast should be Gohan's Ultra form, a guy who doesnt like to fight or kill (Of which I think people forget Goku doesnt like to kill people either but will if he has to) goes "Beast" mode and is a cold calculated killing machine. It makes sense he doesnt want to fight and all that stuff that's already there. But yeah Akira and the others just seem to mishandle Gohan. He was and still is one of my favorite characters, I mean shit I made "my own version" of Gohan playing Xenoverse 2. Either way love your take on Gohan and its the most rational and reasonable way to do it. The only thing I think holding it back is if he is that powerful there would be no conflict ever again really. In a weird way Gohan would be the worst thing to ever happen in the universe. If he lost his humanity somehow he would be the strongest antagonist ever made. Not gonna lie a Gohan losing his shit arc and being the final bad guy of the series where the rest and his father main staging to literally knock some sense into him again. Would be epic and when Gohan finally kills his own father Goku permanently for good and probably a few other characters finally stops raging realizing what he had just done. Akira finally would've been able to write a slice of life in DBZ and any time a villain would show up Gohan would put a stop to him like Superman. But if it ever got serious he would only be able to go Beast again to destroy the threat quickly knowing that staying in that mode prolonged would bring about that villain arc for Gohan. Much like how you're saying basically would be an interesting way to take Gohan. Get rid of the infinite revives and wishes of the Dragon Balls as Villain Beast Gohan destroyed that during his Evil arc. To give stories meaning again, as constantly just being brought back to life for any and every character in the series forced Akira to keep writing about these characters that were basically irrelevant by now. Were at the point as well because idk what you can do with Dragon Ball anymore, we've gone from planet to galaxy to universe destroying threats. After Super where do you go from there? I think that's why Akira was making Daima just as a way to scale things back down somewhat and work with a remotely clean slate. I'm sad well never get the Gohan at the main stage kinda treatment but by now there's no point story-wise, and as the good creator of the series himself the great Toriyama passed away not too long ago
@@CAGExplainsI think he made gohan weak and mostly absent for super is for new characters to have some screen time and expand the universe and I still think that he should have been able to keep up with goku and vegeta. and like gohan a lot of characters are not given the time to have moments to shine.
@@ilikethings-b4z Yes, the new characters of Goku and Vegeta. Lol DBS is really only about them. Not sure who's getting the extra screen time being given up by Gohan. Maybe Broly?
The point about Super Hero not having any references to the Great Saiyaman, and not allowing him to be more influential on the Gamma's character arcs is really telling with how much Toriyama actually cared about Gohan's character and the considering that he wasn't even supposed to be in the film originally, it's hard to refute this. It sucks because he's my favorite character, and he has so much potential story wise that could possibly elevate the series, but his creators/fans feel more content to put him in an endless cycle where he gets yelled at for not training, gets his ass beat, and unlocks some hax power-up to catch up to Goku and Vegeta for the last 30 years.
@@sonicthomasgamer Toriyama came up with the initial concept where Piccolo was the solo protagonist. One of his editors suggested that they added Gohan, and he pretty much went, "Ok sure" and you pretty much got Super Hero. You can tell he didn't really think about Gohan's role in the story behinds giving him a new form from the way he gets sidelined by Piccolo for most of the 1st and 2nd act.
Your videos are something that I can't allow myself to listen to as background noise. I have to watch the screen because your editing and presentation are so great. Keep it up, man!
Future trunks and future gohan are the best dbz characters tori has come up with due to writing them as guys who have dreams but know the reality of things in life and in the world they live in so they set priority in making sure their world is protected. Theres a reason everyone likes future trunks and future gohan and not their present time line self's.
There's no saving Gohan, from a story structure perspective: do you understand just how weird it is for the main character to have an adult son? An adult son who is an active combatant makes that ten times as weird. Dragonball may be the first to innovate on that front, like Joseph is in part 3 of JoJo's but he's consistently show to be physically and tactically outclassed by jotaro. Because that is the point of introducing the next of kin in the first place. Goku coming back to life that one time permanently fucked up the passing of the torch moment. Now it's gonna feel unearned if Goku gives up fighting randomly or dies for real this time
There's no saving Dragonball. We'll have bright spots though. We'll have good moments, but the story and canon as a whole is permanently jank. I say they reboot it all and start over with all the lore in place from the start. Nothing cheapens a story more for me than hearing an author say they didn't have plans for something in the beginning and made it up as they went.
@@michaeltaylor788 Oh. It's insanely popular all over. So is heart disease. Being popular doesn't mean it's good, bud. It has major, MAJOR problems. And don't get me wrong, I love Dragonball. I'm just not blind.
At least Joseph has a purpose in Stardust Crusaders. Goku and Gohan being in the same story literally adds nothing because Gohan keeps getting written out of it until it’s time for him to have the SSJ2 arc again and get thrown back onto the sidelines
I feel that the line of Gohan saying “I think” is sadder because he and Goku trained on how to make Super Saiyan their base form so he shouldn’t have any trouble going into the form
i'm not a Gohan fan, but even i got mad at how dirty Gohan was handled in Super. to me, it made Gohan come off as even dumber. i got tired of this cycle where Gohan goes from strong to weak due not training to strong again thanks to either a short training montage or some catalyst making him angry. he should know to keep up with his training because whether his father is on world, off world or even dead, evil will come to Earth regardless and he needs to be prepared. what made me even madder was that Piccolo whipped Gohan back into shape in less than a week (idk how long it was exactly) for the ToP. when i saw that, i just kept saying to myself "why didn't Piccolo take Gohan into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?" they wouldn't even need to stay in for a whole 24 hours. even just 1 hour would be half a month (about 15 days). i hate that Toriyama has this law where "Gohan can't be a scholar, a family man AND a strong fighter all in one". what's the point of him being scholar and weak if he isn't strong enough to keep his own family safe? it just infuriates me that Gohan has to keep making the same mistakes again and again, relearning what he needs to do and having his latest crowning achievement a means of nostalgia pandering. i can't be the only one who thinks Beast is goofy looking. it makes me wish he took after his Future counterpart after the events of the Cell Games. Edit: i was also mad about how Trunks was handled. i hate everything about Super Saiyan Rage. why didn't Trunks transform after seeing his mother die in front of him? or when he saw Mai "supposedly" die (at the time he didn't know she survived but us the viewer knew she did)? or when his mother from another timeline was in the exact same predicament as his late mother? i recall in a Dragon Ball Heroes short where Majin Buu awoken in Trunks' timeline that he got enraged and sparked into Super Saiyan 3 just after seeing random civilians get turned to candy and eaten in front of him. also, when i watched the DBS Anime, another question came to my mind: "why didn't Goku just take Trunks to do one of the 2 rituals to get stronger?" which rituals? the Ultimate and Super Saiyan God rituals. they had ample time to do so because Bulma had to repair the Cell's Time Machine after Trunks' Time Machine was destroyed by Black. it would've been a far better boost of power for Trunks to obtain a form of power beyond the level of his Super Saiyan 2 state than just Angrier Super Saiyan 2 that, for some reason, let him go toe-to-toe with Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.
One of the biggest problems I have with Toriyama is his seeming inability to write more than a few characters with an actual development arc. He thinks he's playing it safe by writing flat, one note characters, and his tendency to regress back into the habit of writing flat characters bleeds over into characters who actually have/had decent stories. He's too comfortable playing it safe with characters like Goku and Frieza, characters he purposely stagnates, just to gloss over his lack of creativity. He tosses complex characters to the wayside the moment he sees the first opportunity to put Goku back in the driver's seat. For me, Dragonball ends with the last episode of the Bruce Faulcner dub of DBZ. I have an ungodly level of difficulty stomaching anything past the first half of the Buu Saga.
@@Socialism_on_Roids the craziest thing is that Frieza of all people is the only character whose gotten proper development in Super. After losing to Goku, being killed by Trunks and told that Goku has defeated Buu and fought Beerus, Frieza does the one thing he never did before in RoF. He trained. A prodigy like him put in actual effort. And in a few months time, he achieved the power to rival Super Saiyan Blue via Golden. Granted, he rushed things and instead of perfecting his Golden state, he went back to Earth for a rematch. After his defeat, he subjected himself to image training in Hell. Simulating countless battles with Goku while fixing the flaw of his Golden Form. And when brought back for the ToP, he was stronger than he was previously. However, he was still suffering defeat from people like Toppo and Jiren. Then Broly sealed the deal with Frieza accepting his loss because Broly was also a prodigy. It revealed to him that Golden is not going to cut it anymore. Then fast forward to Granola and Frieza returns after training for 10 years with his Black Form. He oneshot Gas, Goku and Vegeta in their strongest forms and cemented himself as the strongest mortal in Universe 7 (for now at least). Frieza is the only character in Super who learns from his mistakes and failures and grows from them.
Gohan’s a sad character because he’s the manifestation of wasted potential, both in-verse and in real life. His character could’ve been so much better and he could’ve been a lot more dependable by continuing to train. And the whole “he got his happy ending by becoming a scholar and just being a family man” doesn’t work because that “happy ending” would always be threatened by something like Freeza, Cell, etc. and he really should know better than to assume something else bad couldn’t happen. I mean, how could a guy who was kidnapped by his evil alien uncle at the age of 4, had to train for a year for that uncle’s evil friends, had to go to another planet to revive his master who died from said uncle’s friends, had to fight a space emperor, had to train for robots who kill him and everyone else in another timeline, had to train for an android who ate those robots, and had to train for an evil bubble gum dude NOT assume that some other nonsense could come up that would derail his life? Gohan is what happens when you become complacent.
Training isn't the issue Gohan cannot seem to live up to his cursed fate. This is an extension of his mortality above everything else In his lifetime he was able to mirror a lot of Goku's character driving trials which led to his outlook as a marital artist. Challengers then pitted him against obstacles to his own self awareness and it was either sink or swim Every time he rose to the occasion, he evolved. Becoming truer to his own motives and essence as a being. Some of these obstacles were social burdens. Learning things from other humans about etiquette and responsibility. So Goku is maturing within the bounds of what's ethically permissible Gohan is caught between two worlds. One road is to be a good boy. The other is to be a strong reflection of his father. And what a journey that was. But then we get to his high school days and he isn't met with any circumstances that try his motives as a human The Buu situation places him back in his father's world. Although had he been able to perceive his role on the battlefield, he could have seen Goku's strategic leave to face Vegeta and continue being earth's protector Damn getting soft, what did he learn in those few years galavanting as Saiyaman? What is the point of being a symbol when you can't follow through on the premise? The only thing that should matter in his world is meeting the occasion. He knows that it's a problem to watch his friends fall, so he must also be aware that getting to SSJ2 is the degree of seriousness he needs to take things that threaten his world A person with that kind of trauma should take some time to marinate in that. Like any day could require me to take action. Time spent with Piccolo would have tempered him for this. And it doesn't hurt to seek guidance from a master on the state of things other than war But it's like he sought out capturing his lost childhood, maintaining scholarly appeal. Anyone else with PTSD would frustrate/worry their mother deep into adulthood. These are complicated individuals Maybe the problem isn't that Gohan doesn't share in the edge of strife, but rather is simple. His head is empty if not for what you put in it. So reading books he forgot his name. Like Simba after being banished, acting like his prey
This has little to do whit the topic at hand but, i TRULY dislike the skinnier redesign of every character. My GOD they look frail and pathetic, they made Goku and Vegeta look like teenagers rather than battle hardened 40 yr old masters. Changing the artstyle so much doesnt make sense, everyone is more soft, less edges, it genuinely looks like they made everyone into baby toys.
I think it’s pretty obvious that at a certain point, toriyama just didn’t know what to do with Gohan. How many times are we gonna get the “if only I kept up my training” storyline with Gohan?
I haven’t watched this video yet, but I just wanna say I went on a binge of your content a few days ago, really happy to see you post again! Love your content and analysis of the series and its characters. Excited to watch this especially, as Gohan has been a very divisive character for me throughout Super, so I’m looking forward to hear your thoughts :)
Hey bro, I really appreciate this comment. I'm glad you've been enjoying my videos and I hope you enjoy this one too and the ones I will make in the future! 🔥
Bad eyesight isn’t due to injury, it has to do with the shape of ur rods and cones and stuff. That’s like saying senzu beans should fix vegeta’s giant forehead; it’s just a flaw he was born with
bro can i just say how much i love your videos? i love the way you explain stuff but also love how you make the videos funny with the fine editing and commentary and stuff. love those little texts too. you always make me laugh. keep it up man, you're one of my favorites
To fix gohan they could’ve just made him train goten n trunks and everyone wins… they stay relevant gohan still has his crazy potential but don’t want to fight and let’s goten and trunks do the heavy lifting, that way gohan always stays in shape
19:53 Regarding the fact that Goku gave a senzu bean to Cell, Goku KNEW Gohan was stronger, and he thought Gohan had the same love for fighting as him, so he wanted Gohan to fully earn his victory, the same way Goku would have liked, and GOKU WAS RIGHT, the problem was that he missunderstood Gohan (and if you see the damn show/manga you will realize why he thought of that, Gohan was actively asking him to go all out, so Goku was genuinely thinking this was Gohans wish) and the FIRST THING Goku tried to do the MOMENT he realized he was wrong was to ask Krillin for a Senzu Bean so he can take responsability. And if you see the damn show once again, you realize that Senzu bean was completely meaningless, it didnt make Cell stronger, and SSJ2 Gohan destroyed him even fully healed, so everytime people bring up that moment, they completely ignore that Goku did it so Gohan felt PROUD about his power, so NOBODY could say "he won because of Goku"
Gohan is SO not him anymore that it HURTS me 😭. Like he trained for a day and oh suddenly he has mystic back! He's the leader of Universe 7 (no one listens to him lmao) and he talked about wanting a new form (nah goku gets TWO new ones instead and Gohan falls out to Beerus at home.) Then he gets the Least form. A form with about as much explanation as SSJ rage and suddenly he's the strongest again. While i do like seeing Gohan in the spotlight I want the writing to actually do the character justice and not just have toriyama being like "erm...oh yeah, Gohan let me just make him real strong so the fans stfu..." (Gohan was literally an after thought in the superhero movie.) Also, I'm so glad you addressed the dumbass argument of "oh gohan never wanted to be a fighter so it's ok he's a total jobber now." With great power comes great responsibility. He has the most potential out of the Z fighters and could become a strong warrior that could help defend the Earth but he's not going to because...he doesn't like fighting? In DB, where their planet is threatened nearly every year? Nice writing. And, GOHAN should have already learned the consequences of his slacking in the Buu saga
I took toei and toyotaro gohan for granted, a warrior who was calm,cool, and collected, who didn't need a rage boost to be strong. Now, even tho i like that, he's up there with goku and vegeta. The journey to it was very lacking of care, but I trust in toyotaro right now for writing gohan, he actually seems to care.
@@Whocares158 even More sadder the fact that aside from all of His work, Gohan Is the character that acts More like Akira Toriyama. Is the fact that the person responsable for our childhoods Is dead AND what we're left with Is, aside from all of His work like dragon Quest AND that sand manga who i can't remember the name right now (please say the name) Is a character that represents every thing Toriyama Hates about himself (Gohan)
The way Toriyama wrote Gohan in the Super Hero movie doesn't just merely highlight how bad he is at writing Gohan's character but also that Toriyama has lost a lot of creativity and passion for his work where he just repeats the same thing he did before without doing anything new and interesting.
With the last part, you really had something there, but I don't see resentment, I see an understanding and an expression of Toriyama himself through Gohan Maybe there's something to be said about how Gohan keeps "reverting", or his lack of desire for fighting unless he has to
I honestly liked Gohan s hairstyle during resurrection F. It gave me mature Cell Arc what if hairstyle vibes. With that aside, Gohan has always felt like a Fanfiction Character and never a prodigy that was trained by his loving father. Y'all can blame Chi-Chi for that.
Toriama forgets about ssj2 and he Stated he forgets about half the things he writes... So he pretty much forget how Gohan is stronger than Goku and has mystic powers.
38:05 I never had thought about how much Gohan and Toriyama mirror each other, hell story writers usually do self inserts all the time! I don’t know why I didn’t think that toriyama could do it too..
Standing ovation and agreed on all points. As much as I love Beast Gohan, it wasn't warranted, foreshadowed other than a singular parallel between Super Hero and the Boo arc, and just a repeat of the climax of the weakest arc in Toriyama's canon (RF aside). Couldn't have said any of it better, myself, and that despite Gohan being my favorite character by far. CAGE? More like GOAT.
Bro this is the first time i actually think anyone brought that up, that gohan coming back to train was toei's idea not toryiama. For all we know toriyama completely forgot he even existed and when they told him about superhero he was like "uh...gokus son? That nerd? Oh yeah what was I last doing with him? Oh yeah he got his ass beat by freiza" 😂
I like to think that the reason Shenron addressed Piccolo by Master in Super Hero, is because the first time Piccolo interacted with Shenron to get his wish, he straight up destroyed the poor mf.
7:13 Editing yourself onto the cliff is CRAZY. This is gonna be a good one. 9:55 Ye, this is why I actually like the Gohan changes in RoF overall. He gets embarrassed, but Toei sticks to it as a plotline and sets up his return. Personally, I like this "comeback arc" better than the ones in the Black, ToP, and Super Hero Arcs. He has lower lows, but it's a complete arc nonetheless. The latter three are too sudden and his burst of power is cheap and undeserved.
Gojo Satoru is how I wish Gohan becomes, The Strongest realizing it isn't enough only him and a few individuals to be strong and trains the next generation to surpass him, they both have white hair and primary color eyes too, It's kinda ridiculous how much only Earth is out of the loop from everyone else in the Multiverse, I've heard in some games it was Gohan who taught the world how Ki works, and the time we got Ki exposition in the manga was from Gohan, Gohan teaching about Ki and fighting would combine his Mother's wish for him to be a Scholar and his Father's wish for him to get Stronger.
I'll say it, GT did Gohan much better than Super ever did. GT Gohan is the Gohan the fans want and deserve, a Gohan that is both a Warrior and a Scholar. Sure, he still catches L's, but at least it wasn't anything as embarassing as what happened with Frieza and his henchmen. Ironically, we see a glimse of this very same Gohan in the Moro Arc, right before Toriyama pulls a Toriyama. Edit: Speaking of Gohan from DBSSH:Why the fuck didn't he go full rage mode the moment he found Pan's kidnappers? Contrast that to Goku fighting to the death against Raditz in order to protect Gohan and then sacrificing himself in order to save Gohan from Cell's self-destruction. Heck, compare that to SSJ4 Goku literally punching a hole through Ice Shenron for daring to lay a hand on Pan.
I'm so glad that it seems a good chunk have people have the similar opinion that Gohan Beast is a terribly executed transformation. It was so telegraphed and copy-pasted that all the hype I'd been building up all movie disappeared when it happened. It should have been the cathartic, blow up moment, but instead I just sighed. The special beam cannon was cool... I guess?
@@purerage7963 as a Gohan fan can confirm, we’ve been inventing a better Gohan in our heads and gaslighting ourselves into thinking that version is canon for years now
Fantastic video , the sad thing for me with gohan's character even if Toriyama didn't know what to do with him is that a perfect blueprint already exist his name is Superman. I know the most famous comparison is Goku and Superman but I find more similarities with Gohan and like Superman his drive could have been his good heart and duty instead of the saiyan way .
cant fcking stand the people that defend this too with the whole "gohan never wanted to fight" what are they gonna defend goku being stupider in super too?
At some point we have to stop the cope and just admit Toriyama is the one who fell off. Bro barely knows his own story, and he is cooking nothing but straight dogshit. It's so obvious he hasn't cared about dragon ball for years. "HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!" - us probably
The funny thing is, I never grew up with Gohan the way everyone has. The first episode I ever saw if Z was the start of the Goku and Vegeta fight. I had no idea what was happening but I knew who I needed to root for and from that moment on I was a massive fan. I never started with Gohan, I started with Goku and Vegeta, and in fact I always thought Gohan was Meh. I never cared about Gohan as much as Goku and Vegeta, up until his fight with Cell. Besides that Cell is my favorite villain, but when he went SSJ2 was when I started to like him. For once I was backing Gohan just like Goku and Vegeta... until the Buu Saga. Honestly I loved the Great Saiyaman segment but I love the idea of these Gods living a normal life, but even then they never gave Gohan another moment like in SSJ2 while we have amazing moments burned into my mind by... Goku and Vegeta... In a way I guess I can say I'm lucky I'm wasn't a Gohan Fan. And I'm saying that as a Vegeta Fan
I technically grew up with gohan, but i was an evil little brat and never related with him. He reminded me of a boy i used to bully In primary school. 😂 so i was a Goku fan from day 1
To your comparison in the conclusion to the vid, in Dragon Ball Online, Gohan becomes a writer and scholar of Martial Arts, similar to Toriyama writing a manga that would involve Martial Arts.
Which honestly is a great decision and could have been such a great thing that could've been explored in super a bit. If Beast was explained by researching Ki, that would actually make use of Gohan's actual dream in a addition to his other studies. The stuff dragon ball online included like Ms. Buu, Goten and Trunks being swordmasters, Tien and Krillin being competent martial art instructors. All stuff super could have used but they play into garbage like beast.
Remember when gohan got his saiyaman costume kid trunks was excited but when he saw the costume he ask his mom not make one for him. But a few years later he got an even dumber super hero costume. Peak writing from Toriyama
6:41 That just made me realize that Gohan as a kid could atleast stand toe to toe with form 2nd Frieza for atleast a little bit but RF Gohan gets bodied by 1st form Frieza...
Toriyama couldn’t take responsibility for his own shortcomings. Gohan didn’t fail to be the main character, YOU failed to write him in a compelling way. As if nobody would want a story about the most powerful fighter as somebody who just wants a normal life. As if nobody could write a good character who hates violence but understands that nobody else has the power to defend the world
It's strange, but I also felt that Toriyama was getting into Gohan's role in Super, someone unconcerned by threats or his duty. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't create Beast's design himself, since his art was never shown. I think even if he did it, he wanted it to look as ridiculous as we saw it. And regarding Daima: Fandom: Toriyama is planning something for Gohan Toriyama: Gohan will not appear in the series because he went on vacation with Videl. Keep up the good work with these great videos!
Well he spoke about the design process of Beast and wanted to make the skin blue initially but decided against it on his own, so we definitely know he designed it himself. Something like UI Omen is more of a grey area as there's no hint of Toriyama writing or drawing it. Ultra Ego we've been told is a Toyotaro creation.
I don't understand why we can't just have a slice of Life Gohan comedy without him having to be some sort of powerful guy. I could be a running joke cuz I just have them never do anything
They set up perfectly that Gohan observes and studies things because he's a brain type guy, instead of Goku which is more a feeling guy. Which is great because it sets up a possible change: what if there was a power up that came from knowledge instead of physical training, specially since, in the movie, he studies the "sayan ants". I think we missed the big opportunity to get a interesting and new power up regarding control of power/movement/emotions instead of raging because yes. And I was expecting that because someone in the movie "he's learning as he fights" and I was thinking about Gohan, no robot n2. tl;dr I'm just sad we missed a big opportunity for an interesting Gohan transformation in the Super Hero movie
Goku loves to fight for peace; Gohan loves peace enough to fight. Gohan is no pacifist, but is far less interested in fighting in and of itself than his father. Goku will fight just to fight - to see who wins, who's stronger. He doesn't wish malice on an opponent, he just wants to know if he can win; if he can't, he has a new training goal. For Gohan, fighting is more of a means to an end - he's thankful for his powers and the ability he has to protect those he cares about, but dreams of a day where he'll never need to use them again. Also, throughout DBZ, I've *never* seen Goku half as coldly vindictive as SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell. Even after watching Frieza one shot Krillin and achieveing SSJ1 for first time, Goku still didn't want to kill Frieza if he didn't have to. Gohan wanted to *torture* Cell before taking him out.
i sincerely hope the form has something to do with gohan meddling with the kai rituals, because narratively it would be perfect. Goke the mortal angel, Vegita the prince of destroyer, Gohan the Raging Kai, and Brolly the Primal Saiyan. My only grip with Orange Piccolo is its called Orange, it should have been called Dragon Warrior piccolo since he's a fuse being of the two clan.
Oh man. This video was so pleasing to watch. I've been in the trenches fighting all these Gohan simps. It's nice to have a quality video to discuss all the flaws of Super Hero Gohan.
I agree that Gohan should've been the person to push Frieza to transform prior to Goku & Vegeta arriving. No, he didn't need to be crazy strong to get Frieza to go Golden. However, how about a callback to Namek when Gohan's massive energy blast to save Piccolo from 3rd Form Frieza was enough to convince the tyrant to go into his final form! I would've loved to see Gohan get roughed up as a Super Saiyan, but the threat of Piccolo or the others getting killed pushed him to unlocked Ultimate Gohan. Frieza could've gone into his final form to take Gohan down to give the guy just a little bit of epicness rather than being a dork. Imagine Goku sensing his son's power from a crazy assault on Frieza rather than Gohan being full of holes straining to be an energy beacon for his daddy to teleport to.
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I think the biggest problem with Toriyama's movie works is that even according to Toriyama people don't consult him much about the movies. They give him way too much freedom, that's why Dragon Ball Super Super Hero is a thing. Toriyama literally didn't know that they were going to use the subtitle "super" after Dragon Ball that was fully unintentional. Toriyama has his ideas but often it seems nobody contest him and it is fairly obvious that he didn't regularly view the anime or manga even if he does have to approve of the manga. While Toyotaro and Toei clearly don't know how to write Dragon Ball at all.
I'm fully convinced that much of DBS could be fixed by simply asking Toriyama a few pointed questions. Super is 90% a rehash of the original themes of DBZ but way worse, if Toriyama presented the plot-points to Toei and Toyotaro then one of them responded by pointing out Toriyama ALREADY DID THIS I think that Toriyama would go back to the drawing board.
Maybe I just have too much faith in Toriyama, but the guy is clearly not an idiot just a bit of a goofball that needs to be challenged occasionally which is the cardinal sin of DBS. Modern DBS either doesn't involve Toriyama (so it sucks) or Toriyama is left completely unchallenged (so it varies in quality).
Bro ur whole channel is just hating on db😭
the name did fit doe because all the super heroes get stronger with rage like super man omni man even future trunks etc and in the movie both gohan and piccolo got a rage boost forms
@@Sloppytoppy796 There's a difference between hating a series and criticism a character.
Toriyama choosing to call the form "Beast" instead of "Super Duper" is the real surprise.
Bruh please don't give him ideas for when they make the movie worse for the super anime
Ayo, Super Duper Gohan Beast incoming
Ayo fuck outta here with that toriyama slander will not be tolerated
With all that was stolen from cell saga I'm surprised its not called Father-Son
Mystic Gohan god Mystic
“Gohan it’s time to go through the same arc again”
“Yes honey”
not only does a world ending threat comes to their doorstep every couple of years, not only those world ending threats are becoming more and more powerful each time, but its also that gohan now has his very own family. so it doesn't make any lick of sense why this mf doesn't constantly train his ass off to, at the very least, protect his wife and child from these incoming threats.
Why would he? Goku and vegeta almost never need his help😭 I think he just wants to be a normal man with a normal family at this point. He know his dad and vegeta can handle anything he can/cant
@@playboypablo6784 did you watch even the video? since it already addressed this. the villains threatening earth couldn't care less what gohan wants and goku/vegeta cant be there all the time. we've already had a scenario like that in resurrection f when they had to buy time for those two to arrive. if freeza was a little bit more petty there and didn't play with them, he could've easily blown up the earth before those two arrived. there have also been plenty of other times ever since post cell saga in dbz when gohan could've been useful and turned things around if he only maintained his training and kept getting stronger instead of weaker. think pablo think
The major problem is that Goku and Vegeta are just relied way too much, and the thing turned worst with Super.
It would be fine if Goku left the picture for a long time and Gohan was the one now fighting to defend Earth... Like it was supposed to be in the end of both Z and GT, but no... I guess we needed Clownku to make it's entrance and have everyone else get their jobber status unless the plot demands, like in the Super movies.
@@playboypablo6784 Sure it make sense at first but after Resurrection F, he shouldn't have slack off again. Dude get one shot or tortured by Freeza while Goku still isn't on earth. If there's a powerful foe that specifically target his wife and daughter then what? He want to get one shot again while his father isn't there to help him?
Even DBS anime Gohan know this and start training again along with DBS manga Gohan where he train with Piccolo and he get his Ultimate form again in both media. But Toriyama straight up ignore this in the Superhero movie and just make him obtain Ultimate form and later Beast Gohan with barely any training.
@@TheTruestZero To be fair, it's been like that since Dragonball Z started. Gohan's role was to function as a punching bag and plot device in order to stall the villain until Goku showed up to actually beat them every since Vegeta and Nappa arrived.
Everybody, not just Gohan, relied on Goku to show up to solve everything both during and before Dragonball Z. No matter how hard they tried, everybody else was basically helpless unless Goku was around as early as the 2nd World Tournament way back in Dragonball, where nobody else even came close to beating Tien. Though it isn't until the King Piccolo Saga that the "everybody is useless until Goku shows up to beat the villain" thing really got started. Gohan beating Cell was pretty much the only time in all of Dragonball that someone other than Goku was actually useful.
This continues into Super. I'm not saying it's a good thing but "Goku is relied on way too much" it's really almost always been the case. At least Vegeta gets a real chance to contribute now too.
Why are the people below me acting like this guy wished for Akira to be dead 💀 All bro did was criticise how he wrote gohan(Go to newest comments)
Because people are dumb.
dude didnt read the manga they explained beast in the manga
@@XenoVibezz no they didn't they have never explained beast
Well I mean, I haven’t heard anything good about his writing since the Broly movie, and before that BOG. I think Toei and Toyotaro have a good chance at being better writers than Toriyama, on account of him clearly having given up and not really truly wanting to do writing anymore.
@@XenoVibezz no they didn’t. They just said it’s something unique Gohan. That doesn’t explain it. By that logic, Super Saiyan Rage Future Trunks was explained lol.
Beast Gohan is the first transformation that we legit don’t know anything about💀
Except we know it’s a plot deus ex power up to make Gohan temporarily relevant that occurred while he was in Mystic State. That somehow lets him eclipse everyone in one second despite spending all his time doing 0 training and just looking at ants.
Bro... NOTHING! Toriyama gave us Blanco and called it a day 😂
@@DarkEclipse23
Toriyama cant be bothered anymore lol.
dragon ball: Lobotomised power scaling
@@DarkEclipse23 I would not be surprised he gets a new form because he stubbed his toe.
@@DarkEclipse23Gohan did train in private off screen. He mentions this to Piccolo in Super Hero.
>My guy talking about characters being assassinated
>Talks about Goku and Gohan
>Forgets that Tien Shinhan exists
Just like Japan.
@@BaconMinion Less ‘forgetting’ and more ‘stomping him into the dirt’.
Late but
Yamcha: "first time?"
It's Tenshinhan
Bro really learned about Gohan Blanco and said “Sure why not?”
💀
It was peak because of that
The problem is they only really know how to tell one story with Gohan and it was never all that compelling to begin with and every time it was a shittier and shittier photo copy. They kind of had something going with ToP Gohan where they directly addressed how arrogant it is to rely on his immense potential as a crutch and how quickly he loses himself in his power the moment he has an upper hand. Then they resolved it in an episode. And then they gave him a fanmade joke form. Modern db writing in a nutshell.
Honestly Adult Gohan's best arc was done by Toei during the ToP. I think Super Hero was just Toriyama's version of Gohan getting his groove back... but was done way worse.
@@CAGExplains How was the Super Hero Movie worse? First of all you need realize Gohan isn't a fighter, cool it should've been portrayed better but the meaning to why he fights hasn't change and people like you don't realize it. Gohan only fights to protect not because he enjoys it and has limitless potential but only seems to tap into when the time needs like how he raged at Piccolo nearly dying and entered beast. A perfect representation of what he fights for and prompts him to fight. Lmao your like DygoKnight but for dragon ball. None of the characters were assassinatedit's just your reading comprehension and analytical skills to see what their about and what the story is about and what it leads to is ass, you don't understand a thing.
@@choppyhakushobro is angry
@@choppyhakusho nobody said he had to be Goku 2.0 but how many times has he learned that his power matters? All he wants is to be happy and study ants but if Goku and Vegeta fail then he can't do that. He doesn't have to be the #1 fighter but he should at least be able to hold off a villain.
@@ravencollins5638 Cool as I said before you don’t know the core of his character. He doesn’t want to be off training 24/7. He has a family to look after and he’s not always going to be training to fight another threat. He wants to study regardless of whatever you think he’s not a fighter and Piccolo knows this. He’s strong as it is and can hold off a threat when needed and if they’re in trouble then he has a reason to actually train.
You know the thing is, I don't even want Gohan to be a Warrior. He can stay the nerd, but let him be a HERO. Even if you want to say he doesn't like fighting, he want to protect everything he loves.
Gohan should train for Android 16, for his Family, for all the memories he's made. Protect the earth, hell protect the galaxy if he wants to. Gohan is a Hero at heart, not a Fighter, and not a Slacker. He should do what he needs to in order to protect the earth like how Piccolo and Goku protected him.
You had me until you said he wasn't a slacker. The guy took a total of 12 years off (7 after Cell and about 5 after Buu). He's definitely a slacker. I mean, even after Beerus wrecked him, he let himself get weaker and got wrecked even worse in Resurrection F. He slacks. Superhero showed that too.
He’s definitely a slacker, you said everything right until you said slacker bro
Resurrection F and super showed he’s a slacker
Yeah. I mean, Gohan can't even spare like a couple hours a day to train? Even just to keep himself in shape so he doesn't get weaker? I would accept Gohan getting his butt whupped and not being a training maniac so long as he at least maintained what he had and legit got his butt whupped despite that instead of spending years hardly training at all and get massively weaker as a result, over and over and over again.
@@immortalfrieza also he could use the time chumber like its right there its perfect do work train a whole year in a spam of literal minutes! its perfect
the last time Gohan felt like he was treated with integrity was in Broly's second coming.
Gohan "has always hated fighting" ignores his character completely prior to the Cell Saga and after with the Great Saiyaman. "Gohan just wants to be a family man" proceeds to admit he hasn't paid attention to his own daughter due to his job. "He has been training off screen" where? The Super Hero movie arc and movie have him out of shape and only stated to train the special beam cannon. The cope his fans have of everyone but themselves "understanding" his character is crazy cause clearly they don't understand it lol. Respect to Toyotaro, really tried to make Gohan work until Super Hero became a thing.
Gohan's character was kind of ruined the moment Toriyama rolled back on the idea of him being Goku's successor as protector of Earth.
He could have had Gohan continue training purely to fill that role out of a sense of responsobility. Because his experience has taught him that Goku won't always be around.
Agreed.
You should consider a video on Tien, Yamcha or both. These two have gotten sandbagged harder than anybody else in the narrative for literal decades since OG Dragonball and it needs to be studied.
Maybe a video on Tien... as for Yamcha, I can't be bothered lol
yeah even original dragon ball yamcha was just there to job or do something funny. toriyama cared so little about writing him he basically just wrote him out of the saiyan saga instantly lol
If you're legitimacy a fellow Yamcha and Tien fan, don't worry. Just watch Saiyan Scholar's videos on Yamcha and Tien. They go in depth and he never disrespects their characters and takes them seriously the whole time.
@@CAGExplains As one of the three Yamcha fans out there. That stings
@@GuyMaleMan He was never good even since the beginning. He was only ever interested in women.
The real shame is that toriyama is treated as justified when mishandling a beloved character rather than criticized for his inability to pivot and deviate from a very basic formula. Gohan is only as bad of a character as toriyama is a writer imo
That’s the thing about Akira Toriyama. He’s both the best thing and the worst thing about all the series he makes. And as the years go on we start to see the weaknesses and cracks in his material. Needless to say he just isn’t what he used to be.
He lost his edge
Hes not writing with any care, he doesnt have editors that reign him in regarding to narrative decisions, and now he gets more incentives to lean in his tomfoolery with how marketable his product is, new form = $
Wasnt there an excerpt or interview where toriyama was so done with dragonball? Hard to believe he gives a shit with how often he forgets, now his attachment to some characters is brought into question
No we just grew up and got accustomed to better storytelling.
@@rowantic6539 nah, compare namek saga to this. Compare goku in the cell saga to the goku we have. Dragon ball z was just it even by today's standard, when i think of pride i think of vegeta no one else. Dbs is just bad tbh
The way toriyama hyped Gohan in The cell saga and then letting him down like that in the Buu saga was ☠️
And it continues when Dragon Ball came back almost 20 years later 💀
Even GT gave more respect to Gohan than super.
Gohan got a gf, gained Mystic form, beat buu up for a bit.
What else do you want him to get? your mom?
@@maalikserebryakovNo, we simply wanted him to actually contribute something major to the plot like he did in the cell games, and unfortunately nothing he does is of any real consequence by the end of the manga.
Gohan never wanted to be fighter
Hot take: Dragon Ball Super is a completely unoriginal rehash of DBZ, just to cash in on the next generation. Why? Because EVERY CHARACTER REGRESSES AND HAS TO RELEARN THE THINGS THEY LEARNED IN DB/DBZ!
Goku regresses to being his childlike self again and forgets martial arts training from his childhood (staying on guard). Look at Namek Goku and compare him to Goku now. You’d think Namek Goku was the more advanced one.
Vegeta regresses to being jealous of Goku and trying to surpass him again, forgetting the resolution of him accepting Goku is better at the end of Z.
Gohan regresses to edgy teen as his SSJ2 arc is just rehashed again.
Heck, the very first arc of Z was meant to introduce a new setting (Goku was a Saiyan and the story was heading into space). And Super did the same thing just with Gods.
Frieza is dredged up to be a main antagonist. Cell is dredged up again as well. Broly is completely rehashed and redone again. It’s just clear to me that Toriyama finished the story of Son Goku and his friends when Z ended. But because Dragonball is a gigantic cash cow, they can’t just let it end. So he just retells THE SAME STORY over and over with nothing new. No character progression. Just characters forgetting old lessons and relearning them over and over.
If you want Gohan to be a scholar then make him a scholar. Have him be really smart and know lots of things. Make him smarter than Bulma, or make it so than he can Analize and copy enemy techniques just by seeing them once.
The story already has enough characters who are just strong with no other gimmicks. As such, actually seriously making Gohan into an actual Scholar would do a lot to make his character stand out. But that hasn't actually happened. Gohan hasn't invented or discovered anything of note. He hasn't really used his brain in a fight in a way that we haven't seen other characters do. He's just called a Scholar but dosn't do anything Scholarly.
Imagine if was a martial arts scholar who studies fighting techniques.
And you know follow up on him writing a book about Ki from Dragonball online.
The funny thing is, the japanese fanbase actually prefer this version of Gohan. Some are saying that he is easier to identify with after he basically became a salaryman. We have to remember that Toriyama mainly listens to his japanese fans. Heck, they were the reason Goku was brought back in the Buu saga. From my experience discussing DB-related stuff with japanese fans, I've learned that they care very little about character development. They just want to see Goku punch people.
That's the problem with asian people overseas. They have no real struggles, all they know is academics. Here in america, a slice of any life could happen to you at any moment. Dragon ball would THE greatest anime if the opinions of american fans would the main points of focus. End of discussion
@@adyelnoyhadryel7930💀
@@adyelnoyhadryel7930bad discussion.
@@adyelnoyhadryel7930This is one of the ignorant comments I've ever read. Don't let Dragon Ball fans write, and you are why.
@@adyelnoyhadryel7930truly a Latin americana moment.
2:30 You can tell in the clip and even in Wrath of the Dragon that they had the movie animated with Gohan powering up into super saiyan, but then had to edit it to keep him Ultimate. The little jump he does after powering up gives it away, that always happen when someone turns into super saiyan.
If the movie was written with Gohan having lost the Ultimate form, and this was changed late enough that the scenes were already animated and had to be edited, it makes a lot more sense that later on Ultimate Gohan is as strong or stronger than blue. Else Beerus gets excited about fighting a dude weaker than the one he one shot earlier on.
The best version of Gohan is the one we got in Moro arc of all things. He is someone that wishes to live a normal life as a scholar, but has also accepted that he is extremely powerful and his power is indispensable to protect his loved ones. Of course, Toyotaro and Toriyama dont interact when writing these things, so Gohan is back to being a loser in Super Hero.
Speaking of lack of communication, it is clear that Toyotaro wrote Ultimate Gohan as just an improved base state for Gohan that makes his transformations obsolete (As many people assumed), but come Super Hero and nope, it is very clear that Ultimate Gohan is some sort of transformation, and it's differentiated from the Base form with the Buu saga hairstyle.
My feelings for Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo are that they feel cheap and carelessly handed out. I wish they had more setup but i'm glad the characters are relevant again.
I agree on Moro being the best Gohan, he finally balanced being a scholar and a fighter.
I've warmed up to Orange Piccolo although it could've been done better. Beast is just trash.
Bro wrote a whole essay
in all seriousness, the classic DBZ films gave Gohan more justice with his character since he went toe to toe with Second Coming Broly in his LSSJ form which is confirmed to be more powerful than when he was portrayed in his first movie and Daizenshu confirms Gohan was SSJ2 while fighting Broly and that he never stopped training for those 7 years. I get it Toriyama sees his negative attributes within him but you at least have to acknowledge that eventually one day that both Goku and Vegeta will be dead and there will have to be someone to protect the earth and it just feels robbed of every single ounce of potential imaginable to not have Gohan protect earth. Uub i like but come on, Gohan was always destined to succeed Goku as first shown with his potential.
Beast was basically a rushed transformation to appease Gohan fans since he's been weak for such a long time.
I never understood Beast. The whole point of Potential Unleashed is that ALL of your power is out for you to use at once. You do not need to transform or anything else to access ALL of your power.
So why give a TRANSFORMATION to the one technique that DOESN'T NEED A TRANSFORMATION?!
To sell merch, duh
Half the DLC slots in Sparking Zero are going to be just Gohan
toriyama wrote himself in the corner with gohan not liking fighting ,what are the odds the strongest martial arts's son hates martial arts
It seems that Toriyama thinks he needs to make Gohan a cocky idiot in order to like fighting, it's really weird.
Ehhh honestly that is fine as children won't allways share the same likes and dislikes /follow in their dads footsteps.
The real problem is that he fumbled the execution of his idea.
@@Eis_Cold He can admit that he hates fighting but also acknowledge his talents, alot of heroes hate the massacre filled world they are trying to fix, but fight anyway, its pretty much apparent that dragonball (post Z) is such a cash cow move, if you expect anything else... Sadge i guess
Considering that most of the fights Gohan was in as a kid involved his friends dying and him getting severely injured, it makes total sense that he’d hate fighting. However I feel like as an adult he should still keep training for pragmatic reasons like saving Earth even if he hates it.
Nah, he could have had Gohan transform with motivation on some Rhaegar Targaryen shit pretty easily. Hell, even Itachi was a traumatized pacifist. Reluctant leaders are often effective ones, think Michael Corleone. Toriyama just never had the motivation to give him an arc like that.
You know... I think I would've bought Beast Gohan a bit more if it happened in the Broly movie instead. Like if Gohan was involved in the fight and we saw Broly and Gohan try to out grow each other with rage. Broly serving as a foil to Gohan, an example to show Gohan how his rage could be used or misused. All of it ultimately culminating in Beast versus Berserker. Ultimate Gohan vs Ikari Broly then Beast Gohan vs SS Ikari Broly.
I laughed so hard when Beast was revealed. It made the rest of the theater VERY angry but I couldn't help it. He looks just like a Troll Doll from the 80's with the massive white hair.
You're absolutely right!
sounds incredibly corny, the trailers literally reveal the form and you were still that desperate to be noticed? 💀
I don’t care what anyone says I’ve always loved the Great Saiyaman
Same here.
Problem is The Powers That Be won’t even let Gohan have that much any more 😢
Great Saiyaman had actual heart, Ultimate was a waste of a character
Great Saiyaman will always be great! 😢
Actual goat ngl.
I feel like Dragon Ball would be far better if people, mainly editors and fans, didn't put so much pressure on Toriyama. Gohan becoming a local super hero would have been a fine ending for him. A character who does like to fight but does not want to to get involved in these world ending struggles. I really wish the Buu saga was this instead.
Let a character bow out when the author is done with them. Like Kuwabara in the last arc of Yu Yu Hakusho. His story was pretty much done. He does not go with the rest of the cast for the last arc and when you see him again in the last episode he is doing just fine.
Exactly fans fantasize too much on how “raw” he was back in the Cell saga
I mean that part with the cell saga was a retcon so by that logic gohan never wanted to be just a super hero or attest great sayian man
Shut up bro this comment makes no sense he’s barely involved or gives a shit about dragon ball anymore
@@supersaiyannigga5980he is still involved in a lot of decisions making more so now actually.
He is gone now.
Late comment but...
You know what the worst thing about Beast Gohan is
It's that the fans ate/eat it up despite how awful it is
So in some sense Toriyama was right, Gohan being regressed back to his cell games self is what the "fans" wanted
In any case, excited to see what Gohan will do in Daima to see Toriyama's final stance on Gohan (like excited to disect it and understand it I mean)
Great Saiyaman? More like GOAT Saiyaman
To be fair, it wasn't Toriyama's vision to give beast to Gohan, he just slapped it on because akio iyoku (i think) told him to use Gohan. So beast is literally just a last second addition so that he could fit into super hero.
Their respective treatments of Gohan really makes me think Toyotaro is a better writer than Super-era Toriyama
Gohan is an interesting character because the beats of his story are pretty sound. As a character he doesn't like fighting but has been thrust into it since he was an child. He's not interested in the dick measuring that Goku or Vegeta do, so it makes sense that once peace comes he'd want out of the game and enjoy life as a family man. It even makes sense for him to relapse a bit and grow weaker, now that his father is back in the picture he can rest a bit easy knowing that the world is relatively safe.
How exactly does one handle the character after that? When a fight breaks out do you have him rush to the front lines or have him stand firm and not get involved. If it's the former you can use that as an eye opening moment for him to see that he can't rest in his laurels. If he had something worth protecting he can't rely on others to do it for him. And if it's the latter then just stick with it, have him not get involved and let him rationalize it as leaving it to those who enjoy the fight and want to get stronger.
The main issue is that they choose both; having Gohan be in the front lines fighting for what he wants to protect but getting completely out classed. But instead of taking that as a learning experience he just goes on living the way he always does. So you're stuck with a character that's showing his faults but not doing anything to grow past them.
i dont like how tori handled gohan hes a failure now bcs he wrote him to not like fighting
Adult Gohan is in the wrong genre of manga but I think Toyotarou handled him well during the Moro arc
@@HunTer-ki1gihe’s always been one tho? That’s his character and it makes sense because he’s a half breed and his saiyan traits only come out when fighting/having to fight. It’s always been his nature to not fight
@@lordgrim355 no he hasnt? If u watched this dudes previous video it explains how he’s always liked fighting but toriama just decided to add the line where he said he doesn’t like fighting because toriama wanted to make the manga more relaxed and have way less action involved. Also him being a half breed and only being strong when he’s fighting doesn’t make sense either when you look at let’s say future trunks or even just regular kid trunks he’s a half breed but loves fighting and getting more powerful, so Gohan being a half breed wouldnt make any difference in fact half breeds are proven to be stronger than full breeds, toriama just has shitty writing sometimes so a lot of confusion pops up
@@ronii_real dude did you just reply to a comment from nearly a year ago?
Here's my version of Gohan:
He took 16's sacrifice to heart and trains to protect people. Not to push his limits like Goku, or to dominate like Vegeta. Purely for protection. THIS is the foundation for Great Saiyaman. It's not just a gag, but Gohan constantly reminding himself WHY he trains. And Great Saiyaman is the basis for Gohan's gi. GREEN. Just like 16. Goku has Orange. Vegeta has Purple. Piccolo has Purple. Green is Gohan's standout colour. Besides, Great Saiyaman's outfit without the helmet, glasses, cape and durag looks AWESOME.
I'd write it so Gohan is hiding his power level. Hell, I'd say that Gohan discovered Beast on his own. He trains in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber all the time becuase its the one place he can power-up without Goku sensing him. He's hiding his power because he knows that if Goku discovers it, he'll press Gohan to fight more - something Gohan abhors.
Now, I would make Gohan the strongest member of the Z Fighters, but he only steps in when Goku and Vegeta are away or down. Gohan is the last resort. That way, he's not getting bullied for his lunch money by Freiza. I'd even have this attitude influence his fighting style. It's surgical, precise and deliberate. Remember how SSJ2 Teen Gohan seemed to slice enemies in half with punches and kicks? That's how Gohan fights. He wants the fight over ASAP. Again, he hates fighting. He wants it over quickly. I'd rewrite it so his "scholar" job is a doctor so he studies anatomy and learns pressure points.
Contrast this version of Gohan to other characters and you have the chance for interesting scenes. Gohan and Goku arguing about the ToP. Gohan is horrified that his father is essentially genociding universes for a good fight. Gohan and Jiren. The reactive hero who only fights to protect as a last resort. The proactive alien who is a hero only so he can hunt strong people to overcome.
Typo on Vegeta's Saiyan Armor. Blue God Vegeta with the Gray Saiyan Armor was peak. Also made Rage Vegeta look badass. Ultra Ego is just meant to represent Destroyer Ki
Dont forget we never know what his job even is, its just a "scholar" job thing.
Atleast Xenoverse decided to use it to make gohan a scholar on the foundations of mainstream ki control.
Bro pls just write dragonball super🙏
I'll say the only change I'll make with this version is that he doesn't train in the Time Chamber to hide his power level but rather because of its properties it allows him to train more without interfering with his daily life stuff, and have him maybe train or spar with Goku occasionally for the fun of it like a father son bonding time since we've seen that Goku does respects Gohan's choice of not fighting during the U6 Tournament (cuz he needs to attend a conference or something) and that Gohan does enjoy himself a good friendly fight akin to a sport activities
This is exactly why I like Gohan's character. Especially because I have a soft spot for Anime characters that are super light hearted 90% of the time. But then its like you flip a switch and they're a totally different person. Gohan even being afraid to fight or kill because of his rage, so he doesnt endanger people he cares about or the world and universe in general. Is just fitting for Gohan, I hate how he is handled. Not only that it seems most ppl hate his Beast Form, I dont really get it. I mean ppl make fun of SSJ 3 Goku and Gotenks for the big hairless brow and obnoxiously long hair all the time but Gohan's hair is "too much?"
Or how it comes out of nowhere and stuff, I dont get the hate. I never got the chance to see the Superhero movie. So I had initially thought it was somewhat of a Ultra form like Instinct and Ego. Like a super mild manner man turning into a monster with the Bruce Banner kinda treatment is perfect Gohan honestly. Like Goku using Instinct to just flow and focus, or Vegeta's Ego to not have his pride or sense of self ego get in the way. Ultra forms are like a juxtaposition on what a character's mindset is in battle normally to make them their greatest version of themselves is so cool.
Beast should be Gohan's Ultra form, a guy who doesnt like to fight or kill (Of which I think people forget Goku doesnt like to kill people either but will if he has to) goes "Beast" mode and is a cold calculated killing machine. It makes sense he doesnt want to fight and all that stuff that's already there. But yeah Akira and the others just seem to mishandle Gohan. He was and still is one of my favorite characters, I mean shit I made "my own version" of Gohan playing Xenoverse 2.
Either way love your take on Gohan and its the most rational and reasonable way to do it. The only thing I think holding it back is if he is that powerful there would be no conflict ever again really. In a weird way Gohan would be the worst thing to ever happen in the universe. If he lost his humanity somehow he would be the strongest antagonist ever made. Not gonna lie a Gohan losing his shit arc and being the final bad guy of the series where the rest and his father main staging to literally knock some sense into him again. Would be epic and when Gohan finally kills his own father Goku permanently for good and probably a few other characters finally stops raging realizing what he had just done. Akira finally would've been able to write a slice of life in DBZ and any time a villain would show up Gohan would put a stop to him like Superman. But if it ever got serious he would only be able to go Beast again to destroy the threat quickly knowing that staying in that mode prolonged would bring about that villain arc for Gohan. Much like how you're saying basically would be an interesting way to take Gohan. Get rid of the infinite revives and wishes of the Dragon Balls as Villain Beast Gohan destroyed that during his Evil arc. To give stories meaning again, as constantly just being brought back to life for any and every character in the series forced Akira to keep writing about these characters that were basically irrelevant by now. Were at the point as well because idk what you can do with Dragon Ball anymore, we've gone from planet to galaxy to universe destroying threats. After Super where do you go from there?
I think that's why Akira was making Daima just as a way to scale things back down somewhat and work with a remotely clean slate. I'm sad well never get the Gohan at the main stage kinda treatment but by now there's no point story-wise, and as the good creator of the series himself the great Toriyama passed away not too long ago
At this point, Gohan Blanco vs El Grande Padre is going to become canon.
It cannot be any worse than Beast Gohan.
Bro I been waiting on this one. Gohans assassination in the Buu Saga was insane. 😂
Bro I've been locked in editing for 48 hours straight! 😂
I can only imagine! This video is great!@@CAGExplains
@@CAGExplainsI think he made gohan weak and mostly absent for super is for new characters to have some screen time and expand the universe and I still think that he should have been able to keep up with goku and vegeta. and like gohan a lot of characters are not given the time to have moments to shine.
@@ilikethings-b4z Yes, the new characters of Goku and Vegeta. Lol DBS is really only about them. Not sure who's getting the extra screen time being given up by Gohan. Maybe Broly?
Clicked faster than Toriyama forgetting abt Launch
That's what I like to hear! 🔥
or that super saiyan 2 existed(that's a real thing he thought super saiyan 3 was super saiyan 2)
A lot of diehard DB fans actually hate Akio because he's the sole reason why a lot of the stuff in DBS feels like a rehash of older z arcs lol
The point about Super Hero not having any references to the Great Saiyaman, and not allowing him to be more influential on the Gamma's character arcs is really telling with how much Toriyama actually cared about Gohan's character and the considering that he wasn't even supposed to be in the film originally, it's hard to refute this. It sucks because he's my favorite character, and he has so much potential story wise that could possibly elevate the series, but his creators/fans feel more content to put him in an endless cycle where he gets yelled at for not training, gets his ass beat, and unlocks some hax power-up to catch up to Goku and Vegeta for the last 30 years.
He wasn’t originally supposed to be in it?
@@sonicthomasgamer Toriyama came up with the initial concept where Piccolo was the solo protagonist. One of his editors suggested that they added Gohan, and he pretty much went, "Ok sure" and you pretty much got Super Hero. You can tell he didn't really think about Gohan's role in the story behinds giving him a new form from the way he gets sidelined by Piccolo for most of the 1st and 2nd act.
Your videos are something that I can't allow myself to listen to as background noise. I have to watch the screen because your editing and presentation are so great. Keep it up, man!
Future trunks and future gohan are the best dbz characters tori has come up with due to writing them as guys who have dreams but know the reality of things in life and in the world they live in so they set priority in making sure their world is protected. Theres a reason everyone likes future trunks and future gohan and not their present time line self's.
They like current gohan just fine right now anyway this forum is full off negativity minority opinion.
Amazon video as always❤
Yooooo
Doth thou meanest to type Amazing?
Amazon Prime video. x3
The fact that they canonized Gohan Blanco is still Crazy😂
I ain't even gonna lie: I forgot I was watching a Gohan video. That piccolo segment was just that good, man.
There's no saving Gohan, from a story structure perspective: do you understand just how weird it is for the main character to have an adult son? An adult son who is an active combatant makes that ten times as weird.
Dragonball may be the first to innovate on that front, like Joseph is in part 3 of JoJo's but he's consistently show to be physically and tactically outclassed by jotaro. Because that is the point of introducing the next of kin in the first place. Goku coming back to life that one time permanently fucked up the passing of the torch moment. Now it's gonna feel unearned if Goku gives up fighting randomly or dies for real this time
There's no saving Dragonball. We'll have bright spots though. We'll have good moments, but the story and canon as a whole is permanently jank.
I say they reboot it all and start over with all the lore in place from the start. Nothing cheapens a story more for me than hearing an author say they didn't have plans for something in the beginning and made it up as they went.
@@Alassandrosit’s fine it still insanely popular in the the west especially in Mexico 🇲🇽.
@@michaeltaylor788 Oh. It's insanely popular all over. So is heart disease. Being popular doesn't mean it's good, bud. It has major, MAJOR problems. And don't get me wrong, I love Dragonball. I'm just not blind.
At least Joseph has a purpose in Stardust Crusaders. Goku and Gohan being in the same story literally adds nothing because Gohan keeps getting written out of it until it’s time for him to have the SSJ2 arc again and get thrown back onto the sidelines
@@Alassandros that make no sense
Toriyama said to Gohan fans, "This fella fell off bro"💀
I feel that the line of Gohan saying “I think” is sadder because he and Goku trained on how to make Super Saiyan their base form so he shouldn’t have any trouble going into the form
i'm not a Gohan fan, but even i got mad at how dirty Gohan was handled in Super. to me, it made Gohan come off as even dumber. i got tired of this cycle where Gohan goes from strong to weak due not training to strong again thanks to either a short training montage or some catalyst making him angry. he should know to keep up with his training because whether his father is on world, off world or even dead, evil will come to Earth regardless and he needs to be prepared. what made me even madder was that Piccolo whipped Gohan back into shape in less than a week (idk how long it was exactly) for the ToP. when i saw that, i just kept saying to myself "why didn't Piccolo take Gohan into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?" they wouldn't even need to stay in for a whole 24 hours. even just 1 hour would be half a month (about 15 days). i hate that Toriyama has this law where "Gohan can't be a scholar, a family man AND a strong fighter all in one". what's the point of him being scholar and weak if he isn't strong enough to keep his own family safe? it just infuriates me that Gohan has to keep making the same mistakes again and again, relearning what he needs to do and having his latest crowning achievement a means of nostalgia pandering. i can't be the only one who thinks Beast is goofy looking. it makes me wish he took after his Future counterpart after the events of the Cell Games.
Edit: i was also mad about how Trunks was handled. i hate everything about Super Saiyan Rage. why didn't Trunks transform after seeing his mother die in front of him? or when he saw Mai "supposedly" die (at the time he didn't know she survived but us the viewer knew she did)? or when his mother from another timeline was in the exact same predicament as his late mother? i recall in a Dragon Ball Heroes short where Majin Buu awoken in Trunks' timeline that he got enraged and sparked into Super Saiyan 3 just after seeing random civilians get turned to candy and eaten in front of him. also, when i watched the DBS Anime, another question came to my mind: "why didn't Goku just take Trunks to do one of the 2 rituals to get stronger?" which rituals? the Ultimate and Super Saiyan God rituals. they had ample time to do so because Bulma had to repair the Cell's Time Machine after Trunks' Time Machine was destroyed by Black. it would've been a far better boost of power for Trunks to obtain a form of power beyond the level of his Super Saiyan 2 state than just Angrier Super Saiyan 2 that, for some reason, let him go toe-to-toe with Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.
One of the biggest problems I have with Toriyama is his seeming inability to write more than a few characters with an actual development arc. He thinks he's playing it safe by writing flat, one note characters, and his tendency to regress back into the habit of writing flat characters bleeds over into characters who actually have/had decent stories. He's too comfortable playing it safe with characters like Goku and Frieza, characters he purposely stagnates, just to gloss over his lack of creativity. He tosses complex characters to the wayside the moment he sees the first opportunity to put Goku back in the driver's seat.
For me, Dragonball ends with the last episode of the Bruce Faulcner dub of DBZ. I have an ungodly level of difficulty stomaching anything past the first half of the Buu Saga.
@@Socialism_on_Roids the craziest thing is that Frieza of all people is the only character whose gotten proper development in Super.
After losing to Goku, being killed by Trunks and told that Goku has defeated Buu and fought Beerus, Frieza does the one thing he never did before in RoF. He trained. A prodigy like him put in actual effort. And in a few months time, he achieved the power to rival Super Saiyan Blue via Golden. Granted, he rushed things and instead of perfecting his Golden state, he went back to Earth for a rematch.
After his defeat, he subjected himself to image training in Hell. Simulating countless battles with Goku while fixing the flaw of his Golden Form. And when brought back for the ToP, he was stronger than he was previously. However, he was still suffering defeat from people like Toppo and Jiren.
Then Broly sealed the deal with Frieza accepting his loss because Broly was also a prodigy. It revealed to him that Golden is not going to cut it anymore.
Then fast forward to Granola and Frieza returns after training for 10 years with his Black Form. He oneshot Gas, Goku and Vegeta in their strongest forms and cemented himself as the strongest mortal in Universe 7 (for now at least).
Frieza is the only character in Super who learns from his mistakes and failures and grows from them.
Gohan’s a sad character because he’s the manifestation of wasted potential, both in-verse and in real life. His character could’ve been so much better and he could’ve been a lot more dependable by continuing to train. And the whole “he got his happy ending by becoming a scholar and just being a family man” doesn’t work because that “happy ending” would always be threatened by something like Freeza, Cell, etc. and he really should know better than to assume something else bad couldn’t happen. I mean, how could a guy who was kidnapped by his evil alien uncle at the age of 4, had to train for a year for that uncle’s evil friends, had to go to another planet to revive his master who died from said uncle’s friends, had to fight a space emperor, had to train for robots who kill him and everyone else in another timeline, had to train for an android who ate those robots, and had to train for an evil bubble gum dude NOT assume that some other nonsense could come up that would derail his life? Gohan is what happens when you become complacent.
Training isn't the issue
Gohan cannot seem to live up to his cursed fate. This is an extension of his mortality above everything else
In his lifetime he was able to mirror a lot of Goku's character driving trials which led to his outlook as a marital artist. Challengers then pitted him against obstacles to his own self awareness and it was either sink or swim
Every time he rose to the occasion, he evolved. Becoming truer to his own motives and essence as a being. Some of these obstacles were social burdens. Learning things from other humans about etiquette and responsibility. So Goku is maturing within the bounds of what's ethically permissible
Gohan is caught between two worlds. One road is to be a good boy. The other is to be a strong reflection of his father. And what a journey that was. But then we get to his high school days and he isn't met with any circumstances that try his motives as a human
The Buu situation places him back in his father's world. Although had he been able to perceive his role on the battlefield, he could have seen Goku's strategic leave to face Vegeta and continue being earth's protector
Damn getting soft, what did he learn in those few years galavanting as Saiyaman? What is the point of being a symbol when you can't follow through on the premise? The only thing that should matter in his world is meeting the occasion. He knows that it's a problem to watch his friends fall, so he must also be aware that getting to SSJ2 is the degree of seriousness he needs to take things that threaten his world
A person with that kind of trauma should take some time to marinate in that. Like any day could require me to take action. Time spent with Piccolo would have tempered him for this. And it doesn't hurt to seek guidance from a master on the state of things other than war
But it's like he sought out capturing his lost childhood, maintaining scholarly appeal. Anyone else with PTSD would frustrate/worry their mother deep into adulthood. These are complicated individuals
Maybe the problem isn't that Gohan doesn't share in the edge of strife, but rather is simple. His head is empty if not for what you put in it. So reading books he forgot his name. Like Simba after being banished, acting like his prey
This has little to do whit the topic at hand but, i TRULY dislike the skinnier redesign of every character.
My GOD they look frail and pathetic, they made Goku and Vegeta look like teenagers rather than battle hardened 40 yr old masters.
Changing the artstyle so much doesnt make sense, everyone is more soft, less edges, it genuinely looks like they made everyone into baby toys.
I think it’s pretty obvious that at a certain point, toriyama just didn’t know what to do with Gohan. How many times are we gonna get the “if only I kept up my training” storyline with Gohan?
True he doesn't know what to do with him.
I haven’t watched this video yet, but I just wanna say I went on a binge of your content a few days ago, really happy to see you post again! Love your content and analysis of the series and its characters. Excited to watch this especially, as Gohan has been a very divisive character for me throughout Super, so I’m looking forward to hear your thoughts :)
Hey bro, I really appreciate this comment. I'm glad you've been enjoying my videos and I hope you enjoy this one too and the ones I will make in the future! 🔥
I don't understand how Sensu Beans don't fix Gohans eyesight...
Bad eyesight isn’t due to injury, it has to do with the shape of ur rods and cones and stuff. That’s like saying senzu beans should fix vegeta’s giant forehead; it’s just a flaw he was born with
@@tiablue9106your comment implying Vegeta’s forehead is a flaw is hilarious🤣
@@tiablue9106 which makes no sense since Chi Chi and Goku both had good eyes.
bro can i just say how much i love your videos? i love the way you explain stuff but also love how you make the videos funny with the fine editing and commentary and stuff. love those little texts too. you always make me laugh. keep it up man, you're one of my favorites
To fix gohan they could’ve just made him train goten n trunks and everyone wins… they stay relevant gohan still has his crazy potential but don’t want to fight and let’s goten and trunks do the heavy lifting, that way gohan always stays in shape
Such an easy slam dunk i've been pushing for, for years and yet it still hasn't been done
19:53 Regarding the fact that Goku gave a senzu bean to Cell, Goku KNEW Gohan was stronger, and he thought Gohan had the same love for fighting as him, so he wanted Gohan to fully earn his victory, the same way Goku would have liked, and GOKU WAS RIGHT, the problem was that he missunderstood Gohan (and if you see the damn show/manga you will realize why he thought of that, Gohan was actively asking him to go all out, so Goku was genuinely thinking this was Gohans wish) and the FIRST THING Goku tried to do the MOMENT he realized he was wrong was to ask Krillin for a Senzu Bean so he can take responsability.
And if you see the damn show once again, you realize that Senzu bean was completely meaningless, it didnt make Cell stronger, and SSJ2 Gohan destroyed him even fully healed, so everytime people bring up that moment, they completely ignore that Goku did it so Gohan felt PROUD about his power, so NOBODY could say "he won because of Goku"
I find this parallel with gohan and toriyama quite interesting considering how bad he treats him. I think there really is something deeper there.
That Picoolo section was sick man.
Gohan is SO not him anymore that it HURTS me 😭. Like he trained for a day and oh suddenly he has mystic back! He's the leader of Universe 7 (no one listens to him lmao) and he talked about wanting a new form (nah goku gets TWO new ones instead and Gohan falls out to Beerus at home.) Then he gets the Least form. A form with about as much explanation as SSJ rage and suddenly he's the strongest again. While i do like seeing Gohan in the spotlight I want the writing to actually do the character justice and not just have toriyama being like "erm...oh yeah, Gohan let me just make him real strong so the fans stfu..." (Gohan was literally an after thought in the superhero movie.) Also, I'm so glad you addressed the dumbass argument of "oh gohan never wanted to be a fighter so it's ok he's a total jobber now." With great power comes great responsibility. He has the most potential out of the Z fighters and could become a strong warrior that could help defend the Earth but he's not going to because...he doesn't like fighting? In DB, where their planet is threatened nearly every year? Nice writing. And, GOHAN should have already learned the consequences of his slacking in the Buu saga
I took toei and toyotaro gohan for granted, a warrior who was calm,cool, and collected, who didn't need a rage boost to be strong. Now, even tho i like that, he's up there with goku and vegeta. The journey to it was very lacking of care, but I trust in toyotaro right now for writing gohan, he actually seems to care.
Dam didnt think Gohan would be a self insert by Toriyama
Me neither
Sadly true... 😞
@@Whocares158 even More sadder the fact that aside from all of His work, Gohan Is the character that acts More like Akira Toriyama.
Is the fact that the person responsable for our childhoods Is dead AND what we're left with Is, aside from all of His work like dragon Quest AND that sand manga who i can't remember the name right now (please say the name) Is a character that represents every thing Toriyama Hates about himself (Gohan)
The way Toriyama wrote Gohan in the Super Hero movie doesn't just merely highlight how bad he is at writing Gohan's character but also that Toriyama has lost a lot of creativity and passion for his work where he just repeats the same thing he did before without doing anything new and interesting.
With the last part, you really had something there, but I don't see resentment, I see an understanding and an expression of Toriyama himself through Gohan
Maybe there's something to be said about how Gohan keeps "reverting", or his lack of desire for fighting unless he has to
I honestly liked Gohan s hairstyle during resurrection F. It gave me mature Cell Arc what if hairstyle vibes. With that aside, Gohan has always felt like a Fanfiction Character and never a prodigy that was trained by his loving father. Y'all can blame Chi-Chi for that.
It's not even Chi-Chi's fault.
Gohan's hairstyle in Super Hero >>>
@@CAGExplains the ultimate hair style or the casual hair style in superhero?
imagine goku did what chichi did and forced him to fight and prohibited him to study
Toriama forgets about ssj2 and he Stated he forgets about half the things he writes... So he pretty much forget how Gohan is stronger than Goku and has mystic powers.
Honestly he probably did forget 😂
He thought ss2 was ss3 the creator really
You didn't have to specify Gohan after saying Toriyama doesn't give a shit.
38:05 I never had thought about how much Gohan and Toriyama mirror each other, hell story writers usually do self inserts all the time! I don’t know why I didn’t think that toriyama could do it too..
Standing ovation and agreed on all points. As much as I love Beast Gohan, it wasn't warranted, foreshadowed other than a singular parallel between Super Hero and the Boo arc, and just a repeat of the climax of the weakest arc in Toriyama's canon (RF aside). Couldn't have said any of it better, myself, and that despite Gohan being my favorite character by far. CAGE? More like GOAT.
Bro this is the first time i actually think anyone brought that up, that gohan coming back to train was toei's idea not toryiama. For all we know toriyama completely forgot he even existed and when they told him about superhero he was like "uh...gokus son? That nerd? Oh yeah what was I last doing with him? Oh yeah he got his ass beat by freiza" 😂
Nawl Gohan training was in the manga
I like to think that the reason Shenron addressed Piccolo by Master in Super Hero, is because the first time Piccolo interacted with Shenron to get his wish, he straight up destroyed the poor mf.
Being that Piccolo and Kami are one being again, technically he both created and destroyed Shenron..
@@plo617 Shenron definitely felt awkward talking with the guy who created him AND destroyed him.
7:13 Editing yourself onto the cliff is CRAZY. This is gonna be a good one.
9:55 Ye, this is why I actually like the Gohan changes in RoF overall. He gets embarrassed, but Toei sticks to it as a plotline and sets up his return. Personally, I like this "comeback arc" better than the ones in the Black, ToP, and Super Hero Arcs. He has lower lows, but it's a complete arc nonetheless. The latter three are too sudden and his burst of power is cheap and undeserved.
Gojo Satoru is how I wish Gohan becomes, The Strongest realizing it isn't enough only him and a few individuals to be strong and trains the next generation to surpass him, they both have white hair and primary color eyes too,
It's kinda ridiculous how much only Earth is out of the loop from everyone else in the Multiverse, I've heard in some games it was Gohan who taught the world how Ki works, and the time we got Ki exposition in the manga was from Gohan,
Gohan teaching about Ki and fighting would combine his Mother's wish for him to be a Scholar and his Father's wish for him to get Stronger.
been binging this channel and just realised it’s only at 23k subs. unbeliever for the quality of content, definitely gonna blow
I'll say it, GT did Gohan much better than Super ever did. GT Gohan is the Gohan the fans want and deserve, a Gohan that is both a Warrior and a Scholar. Sure, he still catches L's, but at least it wasn't anything as embarassing as what happened with Frieza and his henchmen. Ironically, we see a glimse of this very same Gohan in the Moro Arc, right before Toriyama pulls a Toriyama.
Edit: Speaking of Gohan from DBSSH:Why the fuck didn't he go full rage mode the moment he found Pan's kidnappers? Contrast that to Goku fighting to the death against Raditz in order to protect Gohan and then sacrificing himself in order to save Gohan from Cell's self-destruction. Heck, compare that to SSJ4 Goku literally punching a hole through Ice Shenron for daring to lay a hand on Pan.
Gohan only took Ls in Gt cause of circumstance. He’s insanely underrated because of it.
Gohan never really did much though. GT is more Goku Time than any other series
@@crestofhonor2349 Have You not seen Dragon Ball Super and it's jerking off of Goku!? GT is, if anything, Pan's series.
@@crestofhonor2349 Ah, Yes, the "I refuse to accep that DBS is more about Goku than DBGT ever was" fan.
@@ravenouself4181 it really is. Pretty much half the cast doesn’t do much as it’s just Goku whereas in Super other characters at least contribute more
I'm so glad that it seems a good chunk have people have the similar opinion that Gohan Beast is a terribly executed transformation. It was so telegraphed and copy-pasted that all the hype I'd been building up all movie disappeared when it happened. It should have been the cathartic, blow up moment, but instead I just sighed.
The special beam cannon was cool... I guess?
Because Gohan fans always defend Gohan for not having common sense for the type of world he lives in.
Bro could save the world if he did some light jogging and push-ups each morning but he refuses... selfish moron 😂
@@CAGExplains Fans: Just let him be happy with his family.
The family: Where the hell are you Gohan, Pan's been waiting for you for an hour!
@@purerage7963 as a Gohan fan can confirm, we’ve been inventing a better Gohan in our heads and gaslighting ourselves into thinking that version is canon for years now
@@rileyrose5166HAHAHAHAH
@@CAGExplainsexactly..Gohan only need an hour or 30 minutes to train everyday..he would be beyond the other fighters
Ur a goat. I thought this was a re-upload at first 😂😂
Thanks bro, maybe I should add part 2 on the thumbnail lol 😅
Fantastic video , the sad thing for me with gohan's character even if Toriyama didn't know what to do with him is that a perfect blueprint already exist his name is Superman. I know the most famous comparison is Goku and Superman but I find more similarities with Gohan and like Superman his drive could have been his good heart and duty instead of the saiyan way .
The character assassination of Krilllin, Ten shin Han, Yamcha, Yajitobe, Yamcha. The list goes on.
cant fcking stand the people that defend this too with the whole "gohan never wanted to fight"
what are they gonna defend goku being stupider in super too?
At some point we have to stop the cope and just admit Toriyama is the one who fell off. Bro barely knows his own story, and he is cooking nothing but straight dogshit. It's so obvious he hasn't cared about dragon ball for years.
"HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!" - us probably
Every time I hear something about Toriyama’s canon, I can’t help but think “damn he fell off”.
The funny thing is, I never grew up with Gohan the way everyone has. The first episode I ever saw if Z was the start of the Goku and Vegeta fight. I had no idea what was happening but I knew who I needed to root for and from that moment on I was a massive fan.
I never started with Gohan, I started with Goku and Vegeta, and in fact I always thought Gohan was Meh. I never cared about Gohan as much as Goku and Vegeta, up until his fight with Cell. Besides that Cell is my favorite villain, but when he went SSJ2 was when I started to like him. For once I was backing Gohan just like Goku and Vegeta... until the Buu Saga. Honestly I loved the Great Saiyaman segment but I love the idea of these Gods living a normal life, but even then they never gave Gohan another moment like in SSJ2 while we have amazing moments burned into my mind by... Goku and Vegeta... In a way I guess I can say I'm lucky I'm wasn't a Gohan Fan. And I'm saying that as a Vegeta Fan
I technically grew up with gohan, but i was an evil little brat and never related with him. He reminded me of a boy i used to bully
In primary school. 😂 so i was a Goku fan from day 1
To your comparison in the conclusion to the vid, in Dragon Ball Online, Gohan becomes a writer and scholar of Martial Arts, similar to Toriyama writing a manga that would involve Martial Arts.
Which honestly is a great decision and could have been such a great thing that could've been explored in super a bit. If Beast was explained by researching Ki, that would actually make use of Gohan's actual dream in a addition to his other studies. The stuff dragon ball online included like Ms. Buu, Goten and Trunks being swordmasters, Tien and Krillin being competent martial art instructors. All stuff super could have used but they play into garbage like beast.
Remember when gohan got his saiyaman costume kid trunks was excited but when he saw the costume he ask his mom not make one for him. But a few years later he got an even dumber super hero costume. Peak writing from Toriyama
That wasn't in the Movie Version
Soo it really was from Toriyama?
@@diegoantoniofrias9309 the story was from Toriyama. it literally said "story from Akira Toriyama. every character design in dbs manga is from Akira
That got scary at the end wtf that made me kinda sad for Toriyama lowkey LMAOOOOO
They have indeed massacred my boy
I don't mind Gohan being smart in books 📚 and being intelligent.
But him getting his ass kicked hard is just very disappointing and soo annoying.
6:41 That just made me realize that Gohan as a kid could atleast stand toe to toe with form 2nd Frieza for atleast a little bit but RF Gohan gets bodied by 1st form Frieza...
man i love your videos especially that you anlise dragonball for what it is not talking trough nostalgia or exagerating
I'm glad you like them! I just speak my mind lol 🔥
Toriyama couldn’t take responsibility for his own shortcomings. Gohan didn’t fail to be the main character, YOU failed to write him in a compelling way.
As if nobody would want a story about the most powerful fighter as somebody who just wants a normal life. As if nobody could write a good character who hates violence but understands that nobody else has the power to defend the world
It's strange, but I also felt that Toriyama was getting into Gohan's role in Super, someone unconcerned by threats or his duty.
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't create Beast's design himself, since his art was never shown. I think even if he did it, he wanted it to look as ridiculous as we saw it.
And regarding Daima:
Fandom: Toriyama is planning something for Gohan
Toriyama: Gohan will not appear in the series because he went on vacation with Videl.
Keep up the good work with these great videos!
Well he spoke about the design process of Beast and wanted to make the skin blue initially but decided against it on his own, so we definitely know he designed it himself. Something like UI Omen is more of a grey area as there's no hint of Toriyama writing or drawing it. Ultra Ego we've been told is a Toyotaro creation.
I don't understand why we can't just have a slice of Life Gohan comedy without him having to be some sort of powerful guy. I could be a running joke cuz I just have them never do anything
people have always joked about piccolo being gohan’s dad but he might as well actually be the only one raising pan
They set up perfectly that Gohan observes and studies things because he's a brain type guy, instead of Goku which is more a feeling guy. Which is great because it sets up a possible change: what if there was a power up that came from knowledge instead of physical training, specially since, in the movie, he studies the "sayan ants".
I think we missed the big opportunity to get a interesting and new power up regarding control of power/movement/emotions instead of raging because yes.
And I was expecting that because someone in the movie "he's learning as he fights" and I was thinking about Gohan, no robot n2.
tl;dr I'm just sad we missed a big opportunity for an interesting Gohan transformation in the Super Hero movie
Tien gets treated even worse.
All he does is train. And yet he isn't even considered to join the team.
And does get nice. Moments.
It is said that krillain is the strongest full blooded human this said by the author himself.
Goku loves to fight for peace; Gohan loves peace enough to fight.
Gohan is no pacifist, but is far less interested in fighting in and of itself than his father. Goku will fight just to fight - to see who wins, who's stronger. He doesn't wish malice on an opponent, he just wants to know if he can win; if he can't, he has a new training goal. For Gohan, fighting is more of a means to an end - he's thankful for his powers and the ability he has to protect those he cares about, but dreams of a day where he'll never need to use them again.
Also, throughout DBZ, I've *never* seen Goku half as coldly vindictive as SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell. Even after watching Frieza one shot Krillin and achieveing SSJ1 for first time, Goku still didn't want to kill Frieza if he didn't have to. Gohan wanted to *torture* Cell before taking him out.
i sincerely hope the form has something to do with gohan meddling with the kai rituals, because narratively it would be perfect. Goke the mortal angel, Vegita the prince of destroyer, Gohan the Raging Kai, and Brolly the Primal Saiyan.
My only grip with Orange Piccolo is its called Orange, it should have been called Dragon Warrior piccolo since he's a fuse being of the two clan.
Awesome channel man keep up the great work
Oh man. This video was so pleasing to watch. I've been in the trenches fighting all these Gohan simps. It's nice to have a quality video to discuss all the flaws of Super Hero Gohan.
I agree that Gohan should've been the person to push Frieza to transform prior to Goku & Vegeta arriving. No, he didn't need to be crazy strong to get Frieza to go Golden. However, how about a callback to Namek when Gohan's massive energy blast to save Piccolo from 3rd Form Frieza was enough to convince the tyrant to go into his final form!
I would've loved to see Gohan get roughed up as a Super Saiyan, but the threat of Piccolo or the others getting killed pushed him to unlocked Ultimate Gohan. Frieza could've gone into his final form to take Gohan down to give the guy just a little bit of epicness rather than being a dork. Imagine Goku sensing his son's power from a crazy assault on Frieza rather than Gohan being full of holes straining to be an energy beacon for his daddy to teleport to.