I just made a playlist on my yt channel for some of his videos. My contribution to helping people to use correct English. (It's becoming so bastardized) 😔
@@BrayanGonzalez-jj4gv Primarily because the English language has been bastardised; rarely do I come across any young person who can speak (& ennunciate) English anymore; it has been corrupted so much.
@@andrewtongue7084 Sorry but thats just an elitist and poor attitude to have. Your generation's way of speaking is not the standard for how the language should be spoken. New slang terms being adopted and repeated ad nauseum is not the language being "bastardised" or "corrupted," its just the product of the nature of language itself. Languages change over time, get over it.
I was curious if there is a way to solve it with regex. One could solve this riddle with this string: »Runes are a letter system«. I find it hilarious!
@@rossgilbert5890 don't worry, I only recognised it cause for some time, I was obsessed with this font and learnt it by heart, I don't remember it anymore tho, so I had to check which letter was which, and that obsession only came from my obsession of the character W.D. Gaster from the game Undertale
I'm brazilian, so I'm learning British English duh. But these videos are so good and the way he speaks is so clear that I understand almost everything he says. My accent is turning into British quickly thanks to this kind of video and, of course, I learn a lot of curiosities about English. Thank you
Find a gaming buddy who speaks english and play online with them. A friend of mine who speaks french and english never got the hang of french till they could USE it regularly
It's still common in HK to call it "ee-zed", both in and out of the classroom. Also, when ordering in restaurants or when giving your address it's common to call the letters b and d, "boy" and "dog".
As a Morse code user (speaker?) I'll add that certain common words have standard abbreviations which function a lot like the ampersand used to. Not letters, not words, but doing the job of both. Some are abbreviations, some are acronyms, some are completely meaningless letter combos that have meaning by agreement (see Q Codes.) A large part of modern text messaging shortcuts started a lot longer ago than my kids realize.
I remember years ago on the _Tonight Show_ where they gave texters and telegraphers the same message to send. The telegraphers won by a comfortable margin.
Uzzard is the perfect way to resolve the disagreement over zee/zed. I'm all for it. Also, it makes the end of the Alphabet Song totally epic. UZZARD!!!
The tail on j was a device to signal the end of a word as earlier "roman" numerals used iij rather than iii. V is epigraphic, carved on stone, and U is the hand-written version.
@@ami443 The upside-down e looking thing (ә), but I don't think I'd call it a common symbol in English. It's used in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA).
This video was awesome. I’m just a normal guy, not a linguist or anything, so I can’t make any clever puns here like many of the other commenters. Instead I’ll just praise the research and hard work you so obviously put into all your videos, and let you know I’m subscribed and leave likes on every one I watch. Keep up the great work!
Dude, this one single video had me go "OH THAT MAKES SENSE NOW" more than I have in the past 5 years combined. I am billingual and from Europe, surrounded by different languages, so I always wondered what are the similarities between their alphabets and pronunciation. Thanks for this video!
æ is part of the Danish and Norwegian alphabets. The Swedes use ä for the same sound. Danes and Norwegians also use ø while Swedes use ö. They all use å.
@@Sascha5 I would rather say that short ä gets pronounced the same as short e in a lot of swedish accents. Compare lät and lätt, häger and hägg, or käk and käck för example.
I love these delves into our writing system. Having taken Latin in school I remember when one day I suddenly realised why W is called a "double-u", though it was years later that I got confirmation from seeing it mentioned in somewhere. Recently I was doing a voice-over job and there was Latin in the text, and I asked if they wanted classical or ecclesiastical pronunciation. Naturally, they had no idea how to answer.
Funny that, in Germany when we spell out the single letter j, we actually say "jot" - or rather, we use the more historic pronunciation "iot" even if that consonant i sound registers as a j in our heads now. Happy birthday, iot! :D
In the Philippines, where English has been the lingua franca and medium of instruction since it was colonized by the US in the first half of the 20th century, when I learned my alphabet as a child in the Sixties, "z" was pronounce "zay" as in "say" -whereas Americans would day "zee" as in "see".. When I went to British school in Germany in my teens in the mid-Seventies, I was surprised to hear the Brits call the letter "zed"..
Correct. In French it's called "i grec" (not certain of the spelling) and I think the Dutch also call it the "Greek I". But the Dutch actually have another character that is usually written in two characters (ij) but is in reality just one in Dutch (I can't reproduce it on an English system, sorry :) - looks like a u with a tail on the right that forms the 'j' part). Weirdly, for sorting it remains identical in the alphabet to 'y'. Slight segway - was just trying to look it up..
@@freddoflintstono9321 I'm Flemish, not Dutch, but I've never seen 'ij' written as one character. Usually, we call the 'y' as "ij". We do recognize "i-grec" and "ypsilon" as names as well. Funilly enough, 'ij' does count as one character in some crossword puzzle systems.
I'm flemish but have always lived abroad and I'm not a fan of our ij, we have ei which sounds basically the same, so I have never gotten the hang of that, except by just learning the spelling per case
In Vietnamese the letter y (which most of the time is pronounced exactly the same as i, except in some diphthongs like ui vs uy) has the obsolete name of "i cờ rét", which comes from French "i grec". Nowadays though it's called "the long i" ("y dài") in oppose to "the short i" ("i ngắn"). That naming is actually brilliant, not only because of the shape of the two letters, but also because in the diphthong examples above, y is actually pronounced longer in "uy" than its counterpart in "ui".
Pronunciation of these letters in other languages is another unexpected adventure when travelling overseas. For a while I was working in Germany for a local electronics company, subcontracted from a British company, both of which were owned by a third American company. All three were known by three letter acronyms, each of which I had to be able to quote in order to gain entry to my secure workplace. Aaaargh!
That made me chuckle! My old man may have found amusement in that sort of malarkey. He was British army doctor and officer from the 50s onwards, and had various postings abroad. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Germany to name a few.
Or the German diphthongs "ei" and "ie" whose pronunciations English speakers usually mix up. Instead of SHTINE they say STEEN for the noun "Stein" meaning "stone" (but miraculously pronounce "Einstein" almost correctly). There is a helpful mnemonic for them, though. 👉little mnemonic for German diphthongs "ei" vs "ie": _When "e" and "i" go walking, the second letter does the talking._ So, "ei" is always pronounced AYE (like a standalone English "i") and "ie" is always pronounced EE (like a standalone English "e").
@@wordreet Indeed, but only in English (and originally only the stoneware kind, now also glassware). In German, it's called a "Krug" (pronounced KROOK), with prefixes "Stein-" for stoneware and "Glas-" for glassware.
I'm from Estonia and my mother tongue is Estonian. North-Estonian has been Estonia's official dialect (taught in schools and used in legislation) for about 100 years, from some time after our independence in 1918 and after the occupation of Estonia by the USSR. Modern Estonian doesn't use q, w, x, y and z, except in loan words. Our written language was based on German alphabet, so we have "ö", "ä" and "ü". Our difference from other Finno-Ugric languages written in Latin alphabet is our letter Õ (o with a tilde). 'The unrounded back vowel /ɤ/' (according to Wikipedia). People from our biggest island Saaremaa still pronounce 'õ' and 'ö' very similarly, more toward 'ö' to my ears. Saaremaa vodka' s brand slogan is "Vötame mönuga!" while the rest of Estonians would write/pronounce it "Võtame mõnuga! ". They have been taught that some words are to be written with "ö" and some with "õ". Most people from Saaremaa claim that they can hear the difference, but they still pronounce it the same. Our closest remaining Finno-Ugric language is Finnish. Finnish doesn't use the vowel and the Finns can't hear the vowel õ, they tend to use the vowel "ö" instead and they have to study really hard where to write "õ" or "ö". Interestingly Russian has something that sounds really similar to "õ", it's written "ы"
The letter thorn makes sense to write a th sound. The "th" is a helping construction. German have the Ä,Ö,Ü and the ß? Why no aditional letters for the English alphabet?
16:55 I created a computer program that replaced all instances of TH with a single character in a novel that I had in a text file. The single character ended up being one of the most common letters. We really need to bring thorn back!
Yes, I agree! Bring back *Þ* ! And please replace *q* with *k* , and *c* with either *k* or *s* as much as possible, where it makes sense. Much simpler, much clearer. The use of the letter *c* in english is a confusing mess.
@@lakrids-pibe The problem getting rid of 'c' in favour of 'k' or 's' is that there's actually a third common sound it makes, half of 'ch'. 'chip' and 'ship' are very different words, as are 'chat' and 'khat' (an African plant). Perhaps we need to add in a 'ch' symbol (and probably a 'sh' symbol too).
Every video is witty and well put together. For a subject that is so full of tiny detail, that could make it dry or hard to follow, you make it a real joy to watch and learn!
7:40 Welsh uses th for the unvoiced version (as in the English "thick") and dd for the voiced one (as in the English "the"). Interestingly, th is regarded as a single letter, so all the th words come after all the other t words; likewise dd and other letters that appear to most people asa compound of two English/Roman letters Welsh is also notable for having a spelling system that reliably tells you how to pronounce the words, which is why it needed different ways to write the differently sounded consonants th and dd.
FYI: Jolie in French means pretty, not Jolly. Jolly would be closer translated to Joyeux (which can also be translated as Merry, as in Merry Christmas = Joyeux Noël).
Spoiler warning for 18:42 Years of trying to do the “crypto quip” in the newspaper with my mother and father as a boy prepared me for this moment. lol. Thanks for a great video and a little exercise to do for nostalgia’s sake. It was a lot of fun! . . . Yes Rob, runes are a better system ;)
@@Eggyk95 yes it could indeed be “letter” but Rob has said multiple times in videos ( and made a dedicated video) That he personally thinks they’re better. So I figured, “better” was better.
2 месяца назад+2
@@MurderMostFowl Well, 'b' corresponds to the official wingding character that he uses. So you are right.
Another language that has the thorn-eth distinction is Welsh, where 'th' is the thorn, and 'dd' the eth. The language also uses other digraphs as letters in their own right, most notably the infamous 'll'.
Funnily enough, Vietnamese uses the "Đ" character (lowercase "đ"). It makes the same sound as "D" in English, but it has the crossbar through it to differentiate from the letter "D" (lowercase "d") that makes either a "/z/" sound (the "z" in zoo) in the north, or a "/j/" (the "y" in "you" sound) in the south.
The interesting reason for the pronunciation discrepancy of the letter D in Northern and Southern Vietnam is due to sound change in the 19th and 20th century Vietnam. Originally when Portuguese missionaries tried to transcribe the Middle Vietnamese language, those two sounds were just one sound, pronounced like "th" in the English word "the". Over time though, this sound turned to the dental /z/ sound in the North, while in the South it morphed into the palatized /j/ sound.
Half-facts to be precise, but what do people care that linguistics constantly correct him, no one cares for detailed truths nowadays it seems so i give up 🤷
@@raykirushiroyshi2752 People have names for stuff even if they don't use them. English has it's own pronunciations for all the greek letters even tho they're only used in Math.
@@Becky_Cooling it's because it's mostly found in old Italian spellings, where they'd use the "j" as a long "i" (read as ee) and it'd behave a bit like a half-consonant. Nowadays Italians only use "i" unless they're using loan words like "jeans"
The difference between the eth and thorn sounds isn’t subtle at all. Eth is voiced. Thorn is not. If you are making a sound with your vocal cords (as when saying the word “this”), the “th” is voiced and would be written as eth. If you are only making the sound only with your mouth without engaging the vocal cords at all (as when saying the word “thing”), the “th” is unvoiced and would be written as thorn.
Love how RobWords shows me the sources for the International Phonetic Alphabet that we learned at conservatory of music. The Th/th difference is simply if there is pitch added or not, and honestly is exactly why I agree with Rob about adding them back in. As a polyglot, I understand more every day of my life why English IS a creole and also is so hard to learn.
Scholar of Medieval Icelandic here. I'm a big fan of þ and ð, though I think even Icelandic can do without ð. The two are in complementary distribution, with thorn only being word initial, and eth being elsewhere. Although ð is easier to write, þ is just so pleasing
I honestly can’t believe that most people that watch Rob’s videos aren’t subscribed. I saw one video and was instantly hooked therefore I instantly subscribed lol
because subscribing is not necessary. i watch so many of his videos that, the algorithm already suggests them to me, regardless. that is why i am not subscribed. that is why i am not subscribed to most channels i watch. ten years ago i subscribed to every single channel i watched on youtube. it quickly became a massive list. every now and then i go look at them. it’s hundreds😂 so eventually i realized that i don’t particularly care if i am subscribed, lol. the algorithm suggests all my subject matter interests regardless. Welp, there you have it.
I subscribe essentially to bookmark channels. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a particular channel. I also subscribe with the intent of returning to channels which don't post often, but there's always too many suggestions and they get forgotten, unfortunately.
I'm one of them. Maybe one in five or six of the ones that come into my feed interest me enough to watch: and in fairness mostly when I do get attracted by the subject I enjoy the video: that is a tribute to Rob's honest titles (ie he doesn't go in for misleading clickbait). But I would want a higher hit rate before I encouraged the algorithm to show me many more, because there's only so much time I want to give to You-Tube. @algorithm: I hope that doesn't offend you😅
As a graphics artist back in the day before computer graphics, I used to use something called Letrasets, which are prefab sheets of letters in different fonts for typesetting things like advertisements. You would burnish them on your project with a tool called a burnisher that would transfer the letters on to paper. Anyway, long story short, we always ran out of E’s and T’s more often than any other letters. And those were more numerous in supply in the package.
@@bf99ls they were very handy and easy to use. They used to also have a roll of lines, did you use those too? I forget what they were called but they came in several widths and saved one the trouble of drawing straight lines!
So in other languages that use J today (e.g. German, Dutch, Polish, Swedish), used those words be spelled with an I so? Like, used the German for "yes" be spelled "ia" instead of "ja" before 1524, for example? Obviously, I know they all had older forms, but what filled in for J before J existed when the /j/ sound very much existed in those languages, besides English of course?
Thank you, Rob for the delightful condensation of the complex world of linguistics, etymology, etc. I’m speaking of all your videos, not just this specific one. I don’t know the amount of work it goes into these videos or how much compensation you get. but I enjoy each and every post. 🤓🤓😄
Talking of letter frequencies, there is a whole subject called Information Theory which relates to communication, coding, and cryptography. When I learnt about it we used the following order for the commonality of letters: ETAONRISHDLFCMUGYPWBVKXJQZ. Sadly, half a century later, I can still remember it!
In my early years (1960s), I spoke Ceylon-English, which has some leftovers from 19th century English. For example, we called the letter Z, izzed (pronounced, EE-zed)
‘Q’ might be the least used letter in English, but in Morse code used in radio (commercial and amateur) - probably because of its very distinct sound, ‘dah dah di-dah’, with the rhythm of “here comes the bride” - Q becomes one of the most common, because there is a whole raft of abbreviations called “Q-codes” (QRZ? = “who is calling me”, QRL? = “is this frequency in use?”, etc) because it’s much quicker to send three longish letters and a question mark than a whole sentence. Always enjoy your stuff Rob. Thank you. PS Oh, and it is not deemed ‘correct’ to ‘speak’ Morse as “dot dot dash” but as “di-di-dah” (that’s a “U” BTW!)
The order of the alphabet is an interesting subject. The letters have no inherent ordering yet the order has remained mostly consistent across time and cultures (and also through the source alphabets).
We apparently also don't know how the alphabet got its order but we know that the letters were also used as numbers. The Hebrews aleph (a) was 1, bet (b) was 2.
Always enjoy your monologues on the English language, with a few others thrown in for good measure! Studied Latin in high school. A good long time ago, here in Canada. Loved it, was my best subject. So interesting about the origins of our alphabet as well. Thanks for all the interesting stuff!
I am not a linguist, nor a writer, but . . . I can't stop watching these videos . . . lol, only thing I can contribute it to, is they are educating and entertaining. Thank you for bringing non-word nerds into your world!
As a second language student of Japanese with its two nearly perfect phonetic alphabets (Hiragana and Katakana), I'm a fan of replacing characters in theory. Sadly in practice the problem of regional pronunciation VS. spelling is more or less impossible to overcome for English, particularly with numerous native dialects being separated not only by region, but also across culturally distinct populations. Bringing back letters like wynn and thorn does sound fun just for pure looks coolness sake however.
Decades ago In Hong Kong, “Z” was taught to be pronounce as “Yee-Sat”, which was always being corrected by native English speakers to pronounce as “Zee” With this video, now we can say we were not wrong.
"native English speakers" = Americans The letter is pronounced "Zed" in British English (as in French, with German using "Zett"), which comes from the original name of the letter in the Greek alphabet, i.e. Zeta. The American "zee" is a very silly idea, as it can easily be confused by a hearer with "c."
7:08 the difference between the pronunciation of thorn and eth which rob didn't mention is that thorn is voiceless and eth is voiced. for example, s and z are the same sound, just one is voiced and one is voiceless. put a finger on your neck near your vocal chords and say sss and then zzzz. youll feel the zzz buzzes where the s does not. thorn and eth are the same. thorn is voiceless, it doesnt engage the vocal chords, while eth is voiced, it does engage the vocal chords. there are lots of letter pairs that do the same thing and which are essentially the same sound produced the same way with the only difference of chordal engagement. f->v, b->d, k->g, and so on.
Rob, you may not have covered this: American pronunciations that add syllables. Long before you were born, no doubt, there are these songs : John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival) in "Proud Mary" sings riover (for river) and later, "Hoid It Through The Grapevine". Victor Borge in one of his comedies once said "Hoid" and then corrected himself. "Heard". Jeanne C. Riley in "Harper Valley P.T.A." manages to get two syllables into "men". Here's an older one - Clyde Beavers "I Wanted Heoven" (Heaven). On the other side of the Atlantic the Beatles almost dodged their Liverpool accent in "I've Just Seen A Face", rhyming "aware" with "her". (And note Cilla Black in "You're My World", does she sing "Powersaw divine"?) And I'm sure Louis Armstrong sang "Sawdust" instead of "Star Dust". Misheard lyrics No.23. (I have a collection of these. Carpenters : "The best love songs are written with a broken arm.") And how does "brother" become "brothauw" in the famous Hollies song?
In the west of Scotland, J is very often “jye”. Which actually makes a lot of sense, considering it's a form of I. (Of course, you can't ignore the fact that it *rhymes* with I, and ”jay” rhymes with K. I suspect it was more a case of reciting the alphabet and taking your pick than academic pedantry.)
Was going to spell it differently - 'jai' instead of 'jay' - but yes! However, I moved from west coast Scotland to England while old enough to have learned that, but too young to really appreciate the difference. And have been confused and confusing ever since! I struggle to spell out loud words with G and J in close proximity. I know them, but my tongue refuses to believe it.
I learned Latin in public school, so “I came, I saw, I conquered” , was pronounced with the “wuh” sound. Then I switched to a catholic high school, and the phrase became pronounced as vein-ee, veedee, vee-chee; not wuh-nee, wee-dee, wee key. Languages get adapted all the time, but still, I want the Oxford/Harvard/serial comma to be left alone! Consider your Grandma! Comma’s save lives!
That'd be because Church Latin has the same relation to Classical Latin as all the other romance langauges do: They're all daughter langauges of Vulgar Latin (that is, the Latin spoken by the common people, rather than well educated schollars and the upper class (which tended to influence each other)).
Dear Rob, I wanted to tell you how much it brightens me every time to see how much you love language and everything that comes around with language and just because of that I enjoy watching your Videos ❤ I love it so see the passion in people's eyes ☺️
4:55 This isn't right. The Romans didn't use a pair of u's to represent /w/. They just used a single u for that sound. The two u's in the word "equus" aren't a digraph, but rather two separate things; the former u is a part of the digraph "qu", and the latter is a vowel. Also, the description of the Icelandic orthography at 7:39 is inaccurate. The difference between the letters thorn and eth in Icelandic is just that the former typically appears at the beginning of a word, the latter at the middle or the end of a word, whether the sound is voiced or not.
Thank you RobWords for the information about the letter J being 500 years old. I’m doing some research and that bit of information has opened my eyes to some clearly modern falsehoods that I can now debunk… 👍🏾👍🏾
I would LOVE to hear David Mitchell weigh in on whether the letter ᚦ should be reintroduced. Maybe he hates the idea. Maybe he thinks it's pretentious nonsense. But I'll bet he has a strong and eloquently delivered opinion.
Rob, you must have an explosively grand time touring Britain with all the peoples' various different linguist variations. I live in the Southern US and relate to alot of the ancient English historic linguistics where my husband and I spend so much time in the back woods of North Carolina with it's Appalachian culture and heavy ancient British English, that people from the 'outside' find backward but I embrace.
In terms of frequency, E is bumped up by all thos 'magic e's at the end of words that hav no reason to b ther. Z is unfairly relegated becuz S is in place of it's sound in many wordz. If we had letters for all our consonants ch, sh, th, dh, ng, zh and looked at it again the list would be different.
Fun Fact: In Spanish, "W" is not the only letter with more than one syllable. We have: F = Efe (eff-uh) H = Ache (Ah-cheh) J = Jota (Ho-Tah) L = Ele (Ell-uh) M = Eme (Emm-uh) N = Ene (Enn-uh) Ñ = Eñe (Eh-nye) R = Ere (Eh-reh) S = Ese (Ess-uh) W = Doble Ve / Doble U (Doh-bleh-veh / Doh-bleh-oo) X = Equis (Eh-kiss) Y = I Griega (Ee-gree-eh-gah. Spanish for "Greek I". Some people just call it "Yeh") Z = Zeta (Zeh-tuh)
@@hypsyzygy506 Las antiguas grafías compuestas CH ("che") y LL ("elle"; nunca se llamó "ele doble") dejaron de existir oficialmente en español en 1994, mediante una reforma introducida ese año por la RAE. A la R, cuando se usa duplicada ("RR") se le llama simplemente "erre" (nunca "erre doble", sería una redundancia), y cuando se usa sola se le llama "ere" 👍
actually according to the RAE "ye" is the recomended name for y as "i griega" while accepted is now viewed as a traditional name so the current official name is "ye"
@@patax144 You're a Spaniard? Good for you; congratulations!! For you to know, we 450 million other Spanish speakers, (and French, and so on) call it "i griega" ("Greek I").
That stuff at the end about the frequency of e in English and its use in breaking simple codes is a major plot point in Edgar Allen Poe’s story The Gold-Bug.
RUclips keeps recommending these videos even though I’ve already seen them but usually when this happens I just watch them again because they’re that good!
I generally start: RAISE YOUTH (if necessary) to cover all vowels and Y Then BL*ND (if necessary) to cover four more consonants and try another position for any of AEIO if identified as present but misplaced. My average is fewer than four words. I maintain a list of tricky words for my opponents - eg GLYPH QANAT
@@theasandys content creators do it all the time. It’s part of the process. I wasn’t making a big deal of it, I was just pointing it out. You will find there is always something to engage conversations in videos these days.
I learned Classical Latin in school and Ecclesiastical "Latin" has always enraged me, especially people using the "vuh" sound, So its always been "waynee, weedy, weekee" (veni vidi vici) and always remember that "in vino veritas" is pronounced "In weeno werritarse" 🍾🍷
Unpopular opinion: the ecclesiastical pronounciation also hurts my ears because it just sounds like Italian, except for the v, which was part of the pronounciation I learned in school (German-speaking Switzerland), and I never even heard about the v/w debate until much later. I absolutely refuse to pronounce it any closer to w than the mildest bit of ambiguous softness that my poorly-coordinated mouth already provides naturally. To me it just sounds like English because that flavor of w sound isn't a thing in German, or at least I can't think of any examples off the top of my head that aren't 1:1 loanwords or some super obscure archaic stuff. That's where the stereotypical German accent comes from in which w as v (and th as zh or even ss) is wildly exaggerated. "Vould you like some varm cookies?"
@@olivercharles2930 Not so much goofy as "naffy" - for a great conquering hero. Wainy, weedy and weaky all sound pretty pathetic, don't they? Nonetheless, I learned Classical Latin pronunciation, and "Kaisar" sounded somewhat feeble when he said that.
Fun, intéressant, super instructif, Que d'infos surprenantes (Q est ma lettre préférée) thanks Rob for your work ^^ I just discovered you 2 weeks ago & I LOVE your videos! ^^
It’s interesting to think that ‘q’ - which makes the ‘cu’ sound in Latin (as well as English) looks like a join between the Roman ‘c’ and ‘u’ (with the ‘u’ appearing as a backward ‘tail’ attached to the ‘C’)… C and U joined make Q. I wonder, but it doesn’t appear much of a stretch for those ever-practical Romans. And yes, þ is ready for its return… 😁
Q actually comes from the old Greek letter Qoppa "Ϙ" which came from the Phoenician letter Qoph 𐤒. This also became the Quf letter in Hebrew ק, and the Qaf in Arabic ق representing an original /q/ uvular plosive sound. But in Latin, every instance of Q is in the combo QV, so you're half right, haha. Note that words from Arabic like Qatar and Iraq, don't require this, because they represent the original /q/ sound the Phoenician letter also represented.
Thanks for the video! @ 17:17 you say in Morse Code the Zed is represented by two dots followed by two dashes but the graphic shows two dashes followed by two dots, yes?
*Some things I never understood in English:* 1) why C also makes the ‘S’ & ‘K’ sounds 2) why G also makes the ‘J’ sound 3) what’s the point of Q if we have ‘K’ 4) what’s 𝕏
@@lakrids-pibe note that: 1) gets voiced intervocalically (except in some words like "base"), so you can't respell "mace" as "mase" without it sounding like "maze" i mean sure you could replace voiced s with s but then "dose" and "doze" would clash with each other 2) plastik/periodik --> plasti*s*ity/periodi*s*ity. in other words, --> would become a rule that exists (and imo it feels.. kinda weird tbh) 3) it's not that much of a mess when you actually look at the words where it's pronounced /k/ and the words where it's pronounced /s/ and realise that it's very consistent (with exceptions like "Celt" because that word isn't a native English word)
Rob is the kind of nerd who is both entertaining and delightfully educating.
I just made a playlist on my yt channel for some of his videos.
My contribution to helping people to use correct English.
(It's becoming so bastardized) 😔
In the NATO phonetic alphabet, the letter Q is Quebec, pronounced Keh-BEck. Which alludes to the old 'cu' I guess.
He’s very good at his job
fact check him. hes laughably wrong.
@@Kat-I-am3333 No it's not. Or alternatively, it always has been. The reason we have the english we have is because old english was "bastardized"
Rob’s videos should be shown in schools because they’re so entertaining and educational.
That's exactly why they wouldn't be shown in public schools.
@@redfields5070, i didn't understand.
@@BrayanGonzalez-jj4gv Because public school doesn't want to educate in entertaining ways. (I suppose that's what they meant)
@@BrayanGonzalez-jj4gv Primarily because the English language has been bastardised; rarely do I come across any young person who can speak (& ennunciate) English anymore; it has been corrupted so much.
@@andrewtongue7084 Sorry but thats just an elitist and poor attitude to have. Your generation's way of speaking is not the standard for how the language should be spoken. New slang terms being adopted and repeated ad nauseum is not the language being "bastardised" or "corrupted," its just the product of the nature of language itself. Languages change over time, get over it.
In Little Rock, Arkansas, there is an Ampersand Street at the end of the series of streets with letter names. Love it!
So, a street?
@@sjoormen1 No. & Street.
@annwagner5779, Tilde (~) St. would have been fun.😀
@@jimgreen5788
Especially using alternate pronunciations; "approximately street" ?? 😂
Omicron
18:41 for anyone wondering, that's wingdings font, specifically the lowercase letters. This one means "runes are a better system"
I was curious if there is a way to solve it with regex. One could solve this riddle with this string: »Runes are a letter system«. I find it hilarious!
Actually sat for 10 mins with a notebook figuring it out, didn't recognise it was windings 😅
I didn't pick up on the distinction between the square tilted up on its corner and the diamond until I read your post. Thanks!
@@rossgilbert5890 don't worry, I only recognised it cause for some time, I was obsessed with this font and learnt it by heart, I don't remember it anymore tho, so I had to check which letter was which, and that obsession only came from my obsession of the character W.D. Gaster from the game Undertale
Ah almost! I figured "letter system"
I'm brazilian, so I'm learning British English duh. But these videos are so good and the way he speaks is so clear that I understand almost everything he says. My accent is turning into British quickly thanks to this kind of video and, of course, I learn a lot of curiosities about English. Thank you
Find a gaming buddy who speaks english and play online with them. A friend of mine who speaks french and english never got the hang of french till they could USE it regularly
@@ErinDionysusBee not everyone plays games though, but yes - you have to actually interact w/ people otherwise you'll never learn
I grew up in Hong Kong and Z is called something like "izzat" in our English classes!
It's still common in HK to call it "ee-zed", both in and out of the classroom. Also, when ordering in restaurants or when giving your address it's common to call the letters b and d, "boy" and "dog".
Howzat. Huzza! 😂
H is pronounces as Egg-Chu.
Alphabet from Hong Kong:
A B C D E Effu G Eggchew I J K Ello M N O P Q Arlo Essy T U Wee Dubbi-U Exy Y Eezed
Hou geng! I went to KGV so had first language English teachers but definitely remember Z being eezed and R being arlo with the HK locals
As a Morse code user (speaker?) I'll add that certain common words have standard abbreviations which function a lot like the ampersand used to. Not letters, not words, but doing the job of both. Some are abbreviations, some are acronyms, some are completely meaningless letter combos that have meaning by agreement (see Q Codes.) A large part of modern text messaging shortcuts started a lot longer ago than my kids realize.
73
@@S.Sparrow TU ES GE! 73
QRZ?
Telegrams were paid by the word so abbreviations were essential. SWALK 🙂
I remember years ago on the _Tonight Show_ where they gave texters and telegraphers the same message to send. The telegraphers won by a comfortable margin.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY J 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
🎂🎂🎂
Thanks :D
Happy Birth-J 🥳🪅🎊🎉
(B-J?)
𝒉𝒂𝒑𝒑𝒚 𝒃𝒊𝒓𝒕𝒉𝒅𝒂𝒚 𝑱🎉🎉
wasn’t expecting to find you here today mr. the cat.
Uzzard is the perfect way to resolve the disagreement over zee/zed. I'm all for it.
Also, it makes the end of the Alphabet Song totally epic. UZZARD!!!
Totally agree - let'a just start the movement now!
7:02 Ææ 7:22 Ðð
Nah make the sound Zzz .. cause whenever someone starts a discussion about this, everyone around them starts falling asleep
The tail on j was a device to signal the end of a word as earlier "roman" numerals used iij rather than iii. V is epigraphic, carved on stone, and U is the hand-written version.
Great comment, thanks
The letter "&" could lead to an excellent video explaining the origin and histories of all of the common symbols we have today.
Like schwa
@@TheInkPitOx????
@@ami443 The upside-down e looking thing (ә), but I don't think I'd call it a common symbol in English. It's used in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA).
true that would be cool
& where would & f&om meet? Would they b& together, or play on the s& and get really t&?
This video was awesome. I’m just a normal guy, not a linguist or anything, so I can’t make any clever puns here like many of the other commenters. Instead I’ll just praise the research and hard work you so obviously put into all your videos, and let you know I’m subscribed and leave likes on every one I watch. Keep up the great work!
Hear, hear!
First he robs our words, then he robs our letters. What next? Our phonemes???
He shall continue until he's up to Chinese and Vietnamese tones.
As long as I may keep my graphemes
Our hearts...
Our souls.
morphemes 😂
As an Egyptian I enjoyed knowing these information, your channel is amazing
Dude, this one single video had me go "OH THAT MAKES SENSE NOW" more than I have in the past 5 years combined. I am billingual and from Europe, surrounded by different languages, so I always wondered what are the similarities between their alphabets and pronunciation. Thanks for this video!
æ is part of the Danish and Norwegian alphabets. The Swedes use ä for the same sound. Danes and Norwegians also use ø while Swedes use ö. They all use å.
The Swedish ä only makes the æ sound when followed by an r, though. Otherwise, it makes an "eh" sound.
@@Sascha5 I would rather say that short ä gets pronounced the same as short e in a lot of swedish accents. Compare lät and lätt, häger and hägg, or käk and käck för example.
@@Sascha5 If you pronounce äta like that, you only do it because of your local dialect.
@@einarbolstad8150 and your local dialect is better?
@@philhoward4466 No, not better, but it does pronounce the ä properly.
I love these delves into our writing system. Having taken Latin in school I remember when one day I suddenly realised why W is called a "double-u", though it was years later that I got confirmation from seeing it mentioned in somewhere. Recently I was doing a voice-over job and there was Latin in the text, and I asked if they wanted classical or ecclesiastical pronunciation. Naturally, they had no idea how to answer.
Ah yes my favorite letter : *ɯ*
@@jeremx7094 High back unrounded vowel is indeed a lovely thing to behold.
ecclesial pronunciation for the win! :)
Classical pronunciation for the win. Ecclesial pronunciation is actually an intermediate form between Latin and Italian.
*ecclesiastical (N.B. The word "ecclesial" certainly exists, but it is not used in this case.)
Funny that, in Germany when we spell out the single letter j, we actually say "jot" - or rather, we use the more historic pronunciation "iot" even if that consonant i sound registers as a j in our heads now. Happy birthday, iot! :D
The German name "Jot" comes from the Greek letter iota, which is the ancestor of our letter I.
"iot" lmao sounds like that certain word in cebuano
In the Philippines, where English has been the lingua franca and medium of instruction since it was colonized by the US in the first half of the 20th century, when I learned my alphabet as a child in the Sixties, "z" was pronounce "zay" as in "say" -whereas Americans would day "zee" as in "see".. When I went to British school in Germany in my teens in the mid-Seventies, I was surprised to hear the Brits call the letter "zed"..
Uzzard!!! Sounds like something to raise your glass too and shout, I love it!! Love RobWords it is always amazingly interesting. Cheers Rob!
a lot of languages name "y" as the "greek i" or a variation of the original greek "ύψιλον" (ýpsilon)
Correct. In French it's called "i grec" (not certain of the spelling) and I think the Dutch also call it the "Greek I". But the Dutch actually have another character that is usually written in two characters (ij) but is in reality just one in Dutch (I can't reproduce it on an English system, sorry :) - looks like a u with a tail on the right that forms the 'j' part). Weirdly, for sorting it remains identical in the alphabet to 'y'. Slight segway - was just trying to look it up..
@@freddoflintstono9321 yeah, you are right. this is how it is written: "ee-greque".
@@freddoflintstono9321 I'm Flemish, not Dutch, but I've never seen 'ij' written as one character. Usually, we call the 'y' as "ij". We do recognize "i-grec" and "ypsilon" as names as well. Funilly enough, 'ij' does count as one character in some crossword puzzle systems.
I'm flemish but have always lived abroad and I'm not a fan of our ij, we have ei which sounds basically the same, so I have never gotten the hang of that, except by just learning the spelling per case
In Vietnamese the letter y (which most of the time is pronounced exactly the same as i, except in some diphthongs like ui vs uy) has the obsolete name of "i cờ rét", which comes from French "i grec". Nowadays though it's called "the long i" ("y dài") in oppose to "the short i" ("i ngắn"). That naming is actually brilliant, not only because of the shape of the two letters, but also because in the diphthong examples above, y is actually pronounced longer in "uy" than its counterpart in "ui".
This channel is special and must be protected at all costs
Pronunciation of these letters in other languages is another unexpected adventure when travelling overseas. For a while I was working in Germany for a local electronics company, subcontracted from a British company, both of which were owned by a third American company. All three were known by three letter acronyms, each of which I had to be able to quote in order to gain entry to my secure workplace. Aaaargh!
That made me chuckle! My old man may have found amusement in that sort of malarkey. He was British army doctor and officer from the 50s onwards, and had various postings abroad. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Germany to name a few.
Or the German diphthongs "ei" and "ie" whose pronunciations English speakers usually mix up. Instead of SHTINE they say STEEN for the noun "Stein" meaning "stone" (but miraculously pronounce "Einstein" almost correctly). There is a helpful mnemonic for them, though.
👉little mnemonic for German diphthongs "ei" vs "ie": _When "e" and "i" go walking, the second letter does the talking._
So, "ei" is always pronounced AYE (like a standalone English "i") and "ie" is always pronounced EE (like a standalone English "e").
@@berlindude75 Stein is also the name for the beer drinking mug!
@@wordreet Indeed, but only in English (and originally only the stoneware kind, now also glassware). In German, it's called a "Krug" (pronounced KROOK), with prefixes "Stein-" for stoneware and "Glas-" for glassware.
@@berlindude75 This is because we learn his name in history or science and we probably hear it spoken before we read it.
SEA here, former British colony, with heavy influence from British India. I've always been taught to call it _zac(h)_ with the h silent.
Jolly jubilee J. 😂❤
I'm from Estonia and my mother tongue is Estonian. North-Estonian has been Estonia's official dialect (taught in schools and used in legislation) for about 100 years, from some time after our independence in 1918 and after the occupation of Estonia by the USSR. Modern Estonian doesn't use q, w, x, y and z, except in loan words. Our written language was based on German alphabet, so we have "ö", "ä" and "ü". Our difference from other Finno-Ugric languages written in Latin alphabet is our letter Õ (o with a tilde). 'The unrounded back vowel /ɤ/' (according to Wikipedia). People from our biggest island Saaremaa still pronounce 'õ' and 'ö' very similarly, more toward 'ö' to my ears. Saaremaa vodka' s brand slogan is "Vötame mönuga!" while the rest of Estonians would write/pronounce it "Võtame mõnuga! ". They have been taught that some words are to be written with "ö" and some with "õ". Most people from Saaremaa claim that they can hear the difference, but they still pronounce it the same. Our closest remaining Finno-Ugric language is Finnish. Finnish doesn't use the vowel and the Finns can't hear the vowel õ, they tend to use the vowel "ö" instead and they have to study really hard where to write "õ" or "ö".
Interestingly Russian has something that sounds really similar to "õ", it's written "ы"
As a finn I can agree that "õ" is very difficult to say
I use thorn in my notes at school and it actually makes my note taking a little faster
Bravo!
þat’s a good idea
i'm gonna start using þis
I js shrtn evrth if I'm too brd to pay attn
The letter thorn makes sense to write a th sound. The "th" is a helping construction. German have the Ä,Ö,Ü and the ß? Why no aditional letters for the English alphabet?
16:55 I created a computer program that replaced all instances of TH with a single character in a novel that I had in a text file. The single character ended up being one of the most common letters. We really need to bring thorn back!
Yes, I agree! Bring back *Þ* !
And please replace *q* with *k* , and *c* with either *k* or *s* as much as possible, where it makes sense. Much simpler, much clearer.
The use of the letter *c* in english is a confusing mess.
@@lakrids-pibeAnd also, ch => c
@@lakrids-pibe The problem getting rid of 'c' in favour of 'k' or 's' is that there's actually a third common sound it makes, half of 'ch'. 'chip' and 'ship' are very different words, as are 'chat' and 'khat' (an African plant). Perhaps we need to add in a 'ch' symbol (and probably a 'sh' symbol too).
CH is a letter in Spanish.
Yet, it seems you did not distinguish between voiced and unvoiced, i.e. what the Welsh would write as 'dd' and 'th'; ð & þ.
You obviously put a lot of effort into these videos. I truly appreciate it. I have learnt a lot from you. Thank you.
Every video is witty and well put together. For a subject that is so full of tiny detail, that could make it dry or hard to follow, you make it a real joy to watch and learn!
7:40 Welsh uses th for the unvoiced version (as in the English "thick") and dd for the voiced one (as in the English "the").
Interestingly, th is regarded as a single letter, so all the th words come after all the other t words; likewise dd and other letters that appear to most people asa compound of two English/Roman letters
Welsh is also notable for having a spelling system that reliably tells you how to pronounce the words, which is why it needed different ways to write the differently sounded consonants th and dd.
Silly language. Almost extinct until race grifting.
@marktyler3381 Very sensible language. No silent letters, so no need to puzzle over how to pronounce 'ough'.
Thanks for the birthday wishes :D
FYI: Jolie in French means pretty, not Jolly. Jolly would be closer translated to Joyeux (which can also be translated as Merry, as in Merry Christmas = Joyeux Noël).
"Jolly" originally meant "pretty" in Middle English, and was still used with that meaning in Victorian times, but took on another meaning as well.
@@WaterShowsProd That's jolly interesting! :-D
Spoiler warning for 18:42
Years of trying to do the “crypto quip” in the newspaper with my mother and father as a boy prepared me for this moment. lol. Thanks for a great video and a little exercise to do for nostalgia’s sake. It was a lot of fun!
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Yes Rob, runes are a better system ;)
Well.. "Runes are a Letter System" fits as well right? Now I don't know because both make sense to me.
I tried pattern analysis on the fourth word, and managed to get both ferret and follow to fit, led myself up a dead end that way.
@@Eggyk95 yes it could indeed be “letter” but Rob has said multiple times in videos ( and made a dedicated video)
That he personally thinks they’re better. So I figured, “better” was better.
@@MurderMostFowl Well, 'b' corresponds to the official wingding character that he uses. So you are right.
Another language that has the thorn-eth distinction is Welsh, where 'th' is the thorn, and 'dd' the eth. The language also uses other digraphs as letters in their own right, most notably the infamous 'll'.
Happy 500th Birthday J! Here's to many more years!
Funnily enough, Vietnamese uses the "Đ" character (lowercase "đ"). It makes the same sound as "D" in English, but it has the crossbar through it to differentiate from the letter "D" (lowercase "d") that makes either a "/z/" sound (the "z" in zoo) in the north, or a "/j/" (the "y" in "you" sound) in the south.
The interesting reason for the pronunciation discrepancy of the letter D in Northern and Southern Vietnam is due to sound change in the 19th and 20th century Vietnam. Originally when Portuguese missionaries tried to transcribe the Middle Vietnamese language, those two sounds were just one sound, pronounced like "th" in the English word "the". Over time though, this sound turned to the dental /z/ sound in the North, while in the South it morphed into the palatized /j/ sound.
It doesnt make the same sound as English. The vietnamese one is an implosive but the english one is a plosive
I just wish I could remember all the incredible facts from Rob's videos years from now. Or that I had the time to rewatch them regularly.
Half-facts to be precise, but what do people care that linguistics constantly correct him, no one cares for detailed truths nowadays it seems so i give up 🤷
In italian, the way J is pronounced by itself is "i lunga (ee lun-ga)" which translates into "long i"
Really? I thought j just wasn't in the alphabet at all. That's what I've been taught when learning l'italiano
@@raykirushiroyshi2752 People have names for stuff even if they don't use them. English has it's own pronunciations for all the greek letters even tho they're only used in Math.
Plenty of Italian people just say "jolly" though
wait, Italian has a 'J'?
I've been learning for a year and have never come across one.
@@Becky_Cooling it's because it's mostly found in old Italian spellings, where they'd use the "j" as a long "i" (read as ee) and it'd behave a bit like a half-consonant. Nowadays Italians only use "i" unless they're using loan words like "jeans"
The difference between the eth and thorn sounds isn’t subtle at all. Eth is voiced. Thorn is not.
If you are making a sound with your vocal cords (as when saying the word “this”), the “th” is voiced and would be written as eth.
If you are only making the sound only with your mouth without engaging the vocal cords at all (as when saying the word “thing”), the “th” is unvoiced and would be written as thorn.
Love how RobWords shows me the sources for the International Phonetic Alphabet that we learned at conservatory of music. The Th/th difference is simply if there is pitch added or not, and honestly is exactly why I agree with Rob about adding them back in. As a polyglot, I understand more every day of my life why English IS a creole and also is so hard to learn.
Scholar of Medieval Icelandic here. I'm a big fan of þ and ð, though I think even Icelandic can do without ð. The two are in complementary distribution, with thorn only being word initial, and eth being elsewhere. Although ð is easier to write, þ is just so pleasing
I honestly can’t believe that most people that watch Rob’s videos aren’t subscribed. I saw one video and was instantly hooked therefore I instantly subscribed lol
Me as well!
because subscribing is not necessary. i watch so many of his videos that, the algorithm already suggests them to me, regardless. that is why i am not subscribed. that is why i am not subscribed to most channels i watch. ten years ago i subscribed to every single channel i watched on youtube. it quickly became a massive list. every now and then i go look at them. it’s hundreds😂 so eventually i realized that i don’t particularly care if i am subscribed, lol. the algorithm suggests all my subject matter interests regardless. Welp, there you have it.
I subscribe essentially to bookmark channels. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a particular channel. I also subscribe with the intent of returning to channels which don't post often, but there's always too many suggestions and they get forgotten, unfortunately.
Most video plays on RUclips are from people not subscribed to the channel it's on.
I'm one of them. Maybe one in five or six of the ones that come into my feed interest me enough to watch: and in fairness mostly when I do get attracted by the subject I enjoy the video: that is a tribute to Rob's honest titles (ie he doesn't go in for misleading clickbait).
But I would want a higher hit rate before I encouraged the algorithm to show me many more, because there's only so much time I want to give to You-Tube.
@algorithm: I hope that doesn't offend you😅
As a graphics artist back in the day before computer graphics, I used to use something called Letrasets, which are prefab sheets of letters in different fonts for typesetting things like advertisements. You would burnish them on your project with a tool called a burnisher that would transfer the letters on to paper. Anyway, long story short, we always ran out of E’s and T’s more often than any other letters. And those were more numerous in supply in the package.
I was obsessed with Letraset as a kid.
Used it a lot as an architectural student for graphic presentations.
@@AdrianBoyko I always loved to use it. I had a lot of practice typesetting for the Penny Saver! So I got real good at doing it quick!
@@bf99ls they were very handy and easy to use. They used to also have a roll of lines, did you use those too? I forget what they were called but they came in several widths and saved one the trouble of drawing straight lines!
So in other languages that use J today (e.g. German, Dutch, Polish, Swedish), used those words be spelled with an I so? Like, used the German for "yes" be spelled "ia" instead of "ja" before 1524, for example? Obviously, I know they all had older forms, but what filled in for J before J existed when the /j/ sound very much existed in those languages, besides English of course?
Thank you, Rob for the delightful condensation of the complex world of linguistics, etymology, etc.
I’m speaking of all your videos, not just this specific one. I don’t know the amount of work it goes into these videos or how much compensation you get.
but I enjoy each and every post.
🤓🤓😄
Talking of letter frequencies, there is a whole subject called Information Theory which relates to communication, coding, and cryptography. When I learnt about it we used the following order for the commonality of letters:
ETAONRISHDLFCMUGYPWBVKXJQZ.
Sadly, half a century later, I can still remember it!
In my early years (1960s), I spoke Ceylon-English, which has some leftovers from 19th century English. For example, we called the letter Z, izzed (pronounced, EE-zed)
Interesting - I saw somebody further up who leant Singaporean English say the same about their letter z.
Well, I believe that's because Ceylon was colonised in the Victorian Era and Z used to be called as such in that era?
Unexpected Eddie Izzard! Fabulous!
Eddie Z who knew!!🤣🤣
Izzard with two uzzards! Huzzah!
Susie
‘Q’ might be the least used letter in English, but in Morse code used in radio (commercial and amateur) - probably because of its very distinct sound, ‘dah dah di-dah’, with the rhythm of “here comes the bride” - Q becomes one of the most common, because there is a whole raft of abbreviations called “Q-codes” (QRZ? = “who is calling me”, QRL? = “is this frequency in use?”, etc) because it’s much quicker to send three longish letters and a question mark than a whole sentence.
Always enjoy your stuff Rob. Thank you.
PS Oh, and it is not deemed ‘correct’ to ‘speak’ Morse as “dot dot dash” but as “di-di-dah” (that’s a “U” BTW!)
I always deeply appreciate your smooth as butter segways into sponsorships. Bravo
The order of the alphabet is an interesting subject. The letters have no inherent ordering yet the order has remained mostly consistent across time and cultures (and also through the source alphabets).
We apparently also don't know how the alphabet got its order but we know that the letters were also used as numbers. The Hebrews aleph (a) was 1, bet (b) was 2.
And the only other ancient ordering seems to have started with LMNΞΟPQ
RobWords videos just make me happy
Always enjoy your monologues on the English language, with a few others thrown in for good measure! Studied Latin in high school. A good long time ago, here in Canada. Loved it, was my best subject. So interesting about the origins of our alphabet as well. Thanks for all the interesting stuff!
"what's your name?"
"Jess"
'Yes?"
"Yess!!"
so many countries i've been to and had that conversation. i get it now. cheers bro!
I am not a linguist, nor a writer, but . . . I can't stop watching these videos . . . lol, only thing I can contribute it to, is they are educating and entertaining. Thank you for bringing non-word nerds into your world!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY J!!!!!!!!!!!
As a second language student of Japanese with its two nearly perfect phonetic alphabets (Hiragana and Katakana), I'm a fan of replacing characters in theory. Sadly in practice the problem of regional pronunciation VS. spelling is more or less impossible to overcome for English, particularly with numerous native dialects being separated not only by region, but also across culturally distinct populations. Bringing back letters like wynn and thorn does sound fun just for pure looks coolness sake however.
Decades ago In Hong Kong, “Z” was taught to be pronounce as “Yee-Sat”, which was always being corrected by native English speakers to pronounce as “Zee”
With this video, now we can say we were not wrong.
If they were native English speakers they would pronounce "Zed".
@@vtbn53 Indeed yes, but I believe it was the American english influence that prevailed there, as the UK english influence came later.
"native English speakers" = Americans
The letter is pronounced "Zed" in British English (as in French, with German using "Zett"), which comes from the original name of the letter in the Greek alphabet, i.e. Zeta. The American "zee" is a very silly idea, as it can easily be confused by a hearer with "c."
@@DieFlabbergastnot anymore than B and P. "Zee" came about because Americans wanted the alphabet song to rhyme.
@@ianthepelican2709 came later to a british colony...?
7:08 the difference between the pronunciation of thorn and eth which rob didn't mention is that thorn is voiceless and eth is voiced. for example, s and z are the same sound, just one is voiced and one is voiceless. put a finger on your neck near your vocal chords and say sss and then zzzz. youll feel the zzz buzzes where the s does not.
thorn and eth are the same. thorn is voiceless, it doesnt engage the vocal chords, while eth is voiced, it does engage the vocal chords.
there are lots of letter pairs that do the same thing and which are essentially the same sound produced the same way with the only difference of chordal engagement. f->v, b->d, k->g, and so on.
Rob, you may not have covered this: American pronunciations that add syllables. Long before you were born, no doubt, there are these songs : John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival) in "Proud Mary" sings riover (for river) and later, "Hoid It Through The Grapevine". Victor Borge in one of his comedies once said "Hoid" and then corrected himself. "Heard". Jeanne C. Riley in "Harper Valley P.T.A." manages to get two syllables into "men". Here's an older one - Clyde Beavers "I Wanted Heoven" (Heaven). On the other side of the Atlantic the Beatles almost dodged their Liverpool accent in "I've Just Seen A Face", rhyming "aware" with "her". (And note Cilla Black in "You're My World", does she sing "Powersaw divine"?) And I'm sure Louis Armstrong sang "Sawdust" instead of "Star Dust". Misheard lyrics No.23. (I have a collection of these. Carpenters : "The best love songs are written with a broken arm.") And how does "brother" become "brothauw" in the famous Hollies song?
In the west of Scotland, J is very often “jye”. Which actually makes a lot of sense, considering it's a form of I.
(Of course, you can't ignore the fact that it *rhymes* with I, and ”jay” rhymes with K. I suspect it was more a case of reciting the alphabet and taking your pick than academic pedantry.)
Fellow west coaster here! Came here to say that.
Was going to spell it differently - 'jai' instead of 'jay' - but yes!
However, I moved from west coast Scotland to England while old enough to have learned that, but too young to really appreciate the difference. And have been confused and confusing ever since! I struggle to spell out loud words with G and J in close proximity. I know them, but my tongue refuses to believe it.
I learned Latin in public school, so “I came, I saw, I conquered” , was pronounced with the “wuh” sound. Then I switched to a catholic high school, and the phrase became pronounced as vein-ee, veedee, vee-chee; not wuh-nee, wee-dee, wee key. Languages get adapted all the time, but still, I want the Oxford/Harvard/serial comma to be left alone! Consider your Grandma! Comma’s save lives!
That'd be because Church Latin has the same relation to Classical Latin as all the other romance langauges do: They're all daughter langauges of Vulgar Latin (that is, the Latin spoken by the common people, rather than well educated schollars and the upper class (which tended to influence each other)).
But it isn't w or v in classical Latin. It's another sound.
Wow! What an incredible work you put in your videos. They make me love the study of languages more and more.
Incroyable vidéo, fantastiquement riche d'informations de bonne humeur et d'intérêt 🙏😘
Dear Rob,
I wanted to tell you how much it brightens me every time to see how much you love language and everything that comes around with language and just because of that I enjoy watching your Videos ❤
I love it so see the passion in people's eyes ☺️
4:55 This isn't right. The Romans didn't use a pair of u's to represent /w/. They just used a single u for that sound. The two u's in the word "equus" aren't a digraph, but rather two separate things; the former u is a part of the digraph "qu", and the latter is a vowel.
Also, the description of the Icelandic orthography at 7:39 is inaccurate. The difference between the letters thorn and eth in Icelandic is just that the former typically appears at the beginning of a word, the latter at the middle or the end of a word, whether the sound is voiced or not.
I used the Oxford percentage at 18:08 for Wordle and solved it with the third guess. Thank you Rob for my new cheat sheet! 😁
Thank you RobWords for the information about the letter J being 500 years old. I’m doing some research and that bit of information has opened my eyes to some clearly modern falsehoods that I can now debunk… 👍🏾👍🏾
👍🏼
yea
My favourite letters are the least common. Z Q and X. I also like K which is more common
Another stellar video that’s informative, and entertaining is equal amounts. Thank you Rob!
LOL, "Runes are a better system," nice one
Yay for the Jay,
and Robs video today.
For as long as Jay stays
I can be named with such grace.
Nice!
@@jaypaans3471 Thank you! Never hurts to add a bit more creativity in life.
14:58 That is funny. In France, rural kids often name Z as ized (ee-zed). There must be a connection
I love your videos Rob and I’m so glad so many others do too! Many thanks for what you do :)
EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE AND WELL PRESENTED ,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SATT 👽.
i like your aliem👽
@graceofspadess THANKS,
IT'S A SELF PORTRAIT.
SATT 👽.
@@justvisitingterra6459 i likhis armoji 👽
Oh, what a great video.
I can see David Mitchell being subscribed to this channel
I would LOVE to hear David Mitchell weigh in on whether the letter ᚦ should be reintroduced.
Maybe he hates the idea. Maybe he thinks it's pretentious nonsense. But I'll bet he has a strong and eloquently delivered opinion.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY J!
Another fascinating, beautifully presented video. Thank you.
Rob, you must have an explosively grand time touring Britain with all the peoples' various different linguist variations. I live in the Southern US and relate to alot of the ancient English historic linguistics where my husband and I spend so much time in the back woods of North Carolina with it's Appalachian culture and heavy ancient British English, that people from the 'outside' find backward but I embrace.
In terms of frequency,
E is bumped up by all thos 'magic e's at the end of words that hav no reason to b ther.
Z is unfairly relegated becuz S is in place of it's sound in many wordz.
If we had letters for all our consonants ch, sh, th, dh, ng, zh and looked at it again the list would be different.
"Is" is also a Z sound. It seems as if in common words the S will be pronounced as Z while in rarer words you'll see the Z.
The e in "be" is not silent though.
@zidane8452 it iz!
@hazenoki628 but bee is one of the readings of the letter b. Its a different idea, i know.
the morse says: "subscribe to robwords" cheeky rob
we already know
@@mayo-neighs Speak for yourself, please.
Fun Fact: In Spanish, "W" is not the only letter with more than one syllable. We have:
F = Efe (eff-uh)
H = Ache (Ah-cheh)
J = Jota (Ho-Tah)
L = Ele (Ell-uh)
M = Eme (Emm-uh)
N = Ene (Enn-uh)
Ñ = Eñe (Eh-nye)
R = Ere (Eh-reh)
S = Ese (Ess-uh)
W = Doble Ve / Doble U (Doh-bleh-veh / Doh-bleh-oo)
X = Equis (Eh-kiss)
Y = I Griega (Ee-gree-eh-gah. Spanish for "Greek I". Some people just call it "Yeh")
Z = Zeta (Zeh-tuh)
Spain:
W = U Ve Doble (Oo-veh-doh-bleh)
LL elye-doble
RR errey-doble
@@hypsyzygy506 Las antiguas grafías compuestas CH ("che") y LL ("elle"; nunca se llamó "ele doble") dejaron de existir oficialmente en español en 1994, mediante una reforma introducida ese año por la RAE. A la R, cuando se usa duplicada ("RR") se le llama simplemente "erre" (nunca "erre doble", sería una redundancia), y cuando se usa sola se le llama "ere" 👍
actually according to the RAE "ye" is the recomended name for y as "i griega" while accepted is now viewed as a traditional name so the current official name is "ye"
@@patax144 You're a Spaniard? Good for you; congratulations!! For you to know, we 450 million other Spanish speakers, (and French, and so on) call it "i griega" ("Greek I").
That stuff at the end about the frequency of e in English and its use in breaking simple codes is a major plot point in Edgar Allen Poe’s story The Gold-Bug.
RUclips keeps recommending these videos even though I’ve already seen them but usually when this happens I just watch them again because they’re that good!
My starting word in Wordle is "STEAK" for a reason.
I use STEAM, although sometimes I use MEDIA, or AUDIO.
I should have started with STEAK today!!
I generally start:
RAISE
YOUTH (if necessary)
to cover all vowels and Y
Then BL*ND (if necessary)
to cover four more consonants and try another position for any of AEIO if identified as present but misplaced.
My average is fewer than four words.
I maintain a list of tricky words for my opponents - eg GLYPH QANAT
I used to do that, but have started to vary my word for the fun of it. It's cool to go from 0 letters to 5 in 3 moves... 😊
E is more common at the end of the word he said.
17:13 "Two dots, then two dashes" **proceeds to show two dashes then two dots**
It’s called engagement baiting.
@@jnzoogerHe literally just made a mistake, it’s not that deep lil bro
@@jnzooger It's called a mistake.
@@theasandys content creators do it all the time. It’s part of the process. I wasn’t making a big deal of it, I was just pointing it out. You will find there is always something to engage conversations in videos these days.
@@jnzooger what a pessimistically cynical way to look at RUclipsrs! Rob merely made a mistake.
I learned Classical Latin in school and Ecclesiastical "Latin" has always enraged me, especially people using the "vuh" sound, So its always been "waynee, weedy, weekee" (veni vidi vici) and always remember that "in vino veritas" is pronounced "In weeno werritarse" 🍾🍷
Ngl, "wayne, weedy, weeke" robs whatever coolness this phrase had. It sounds goofy.
@@olivercharles2930 its the way I learned it so its ok with me
Unpopular opinion: the ecclesiastical pronounciation also hurts my ears because it just sounds like Italian, except for the v, which was part of the pronounciation I learned in school (German-speaking Switzerland), and I never even heard about the v/w debate until much later.
I absolutely refuse to pronounce it any closer to w than the mildest bit of ambiguous softness that my poorly-coordinated mouth already provides naturally. To me it just sounds like English because that flavor of w sound isn't a thing in German, or at least I can't think of any examples off the top of my head that aren't 1:1 loanwords or some super obscure archaic stuff. That's where the stereotypical German accent comes from in which w as v (and th as zh or even ss) is wildly exaggerated. "Vould you like some varm cookies?"
@@olivercharles2930 Not so much goofy as "naffy" - for a great conquering hero. Wainy, weedy and weaky all sound pretty pathetic, don't they?
Nonetheless, I learned Classical Latin pronunciation, and "Kaisar" sounded somewhat feeble when he said that.
"Julius Caesar says, 'I came, I saw, I conquered'" in classical Latin is "Yulius Kaiser dickit, wayny, weedy, weeky'". Yes, like the Garman Kaiser.
You, sir, are an absolute delight!
Fun, intéressant, super instructif, Que d'infos surprenantes (Q est ma lettre préférée) thanks Rob for your work ^^ I just discovered you 2 weeks ago & I LOVE your videos! ^^
18:44
"Runes are a better system"
it mess that up 0:53 insted of Ee is Ed
8:38 And I seem to recall a documentary film touching on the fact that Jehovah was spelt with an I in Latin...
It's mentioned in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade as well.
@@flowertrue that’s what he’s referring to ( as a joke )
Correct. IEOVAH or YHWH, Yahweh or in English Jehovah.
It has been interesting how many languages change S sibilant to soft SH sound before the vowel equivalent of < i >
18:45
"Runes are a better system"
I agree!
It’s interesting to think that ‘q’ - which makes the ‘cu’ sound in Latin (as well as English) looks like a join between the Roman ‘c’ and ‘u’ (with the ‘u’ appearing as a backward ‘tail’ attached to the ‘C’)… C and U joined make Q.
I wonder, but it doesn’t appear much of a stretch for those ever-practical Romans.
And yes, þ is ready for its return… 😁
Q actually comes from the old Greek letter Qoppa "Ϙ" which came from the Phoenician letter Qoph 𐤒. This also became the Quf letter in Hebrew ק, and the Qaf in Arabic ق representing an original /q/ uvular plosive sound.
But in Latin, every instance of Q is in the combo QV, so you're half right, haha. Note that words from Arabic like Qatar and Iraq, don't require this, because they represent the original /q/ sound the Phoenician letter also represented.
Thanks for the video! @ 17:17 you say in Morse Code the Zed is represented by two dots followed by two dashes but the graphic shows two dashes followed by two dots, yes?
I saw that as well 🫢
Was about to comment that..
*Some things I never understood in English:*
1) why C also makes the ‘S’ & ‘K’ sounds
2) why G also makes the ‘J’ sound
3) what’s the point of Q if we have ‘K’
4) what’s 𝕏
iirc the second one is because of french
The letter 'C' is a mess. It would be much better to replace it with either 'K' or 'S' as much as possible
@@lakrids-pibe Get rid of c and use k or s depending on the sound. And get rid of q. Get rid of x too. Use ks instead. W is also redundant to me.
@@lakrids-pibe note that:
1) gets voiced intervocalically (except in some words like "base"), so you can't respell "mace" as "mase" without it sounding like "maze" i mean sure you could replace voiced s with s but then "dose" and "doze" would clash with each other
2) plastik/periodik --> plasti*s*ity/periodi*s*ity. in other words, --> would become a rule that exists (and imo it feels.. kinda weird tbh)
3) it's not that much of a mess when you actually look at the words where it's pronounced /k/ and the words where it's pronounced /s/ and realise that it's very consistent (with exceptions like "Celt" because that word isn't a native English word)
X is a lot faster to write than ks@@berryesseen
You have all the subjects I really enjoy learning about in this video: Old English, word history, and Morse Code! Thanks 🙏
Kicking K takes me back to when my kids were learning to read, I'm old but Kicking K ,I always loved. I love your videos .