I have that exact green Pagani. It's really a great watch. The movement, the sapphire and the cyclops (yes, that little thing!) made it stand apart for me. It's sooo rare to get a budget-level sub homage that has a cyclops that actually magnifies! It's practical to implement and it shows attention to detail. I never ever thought I'd get any satisfaction out of a 1) chinese budget mechanical, 2) chinese budget sub homage or 3) watch with "Pagani Design" on the dial, but here we are, and I now have 2 of them!
I guess in a way you can consider it a Sea Dweller homage, although it's really in between in size, not to mention has the cyclops (looking at the Deep Sea which is without cyclops).
I just got my Pagani Hulk homage. Absolutely love it. Love the bigger size. I have almost 8" wrist and 43mm is my sweet spot. Since I would never spend $11,000 on a Rolex, this is all I need
42mm is just too big for me so I got a Loreo, and bought a ceramic bezel insert for it for like $5, and put it on a Nato strap. I like the faceted hands on it. I also like that there's a version of the Loreo with day/date. The Pagani has an edge with the movement, but the Loreo is built better.
The pagani may not have an advantage of the better movement if it’s not a real seiko nh35 movement people are saying it doesn’t look as advertised! I have a loreo hulk but may buy a pagani so I have all 3 as I have the invicta too!
I have to agree, although I only own the Loreo, I did place an order for a Pagani due to the ceramic bezel and lume pip making it more like a rolex. I really am enjoying the Loreo and its wearability, and the movement of mine is doing well with a +12 sec/day error.
Ended up getting a Pagani over the Loreo, just didn't like the polished middle links on the bracelet. It's a very reliable time keeper, just wish it was the classic 40mm size.
Perth WAtch Can you direct me to that link? I would really appreciate it, as I am on the verge of ordering a Loreo, but would prefer a 40mm Pagani if possible!
I got a PD 39 with green dial and black bezel. You're spot on about it's bezel. It is terribly loose. The difference in mine is I selected the Miyota 8215 instead of the NH35.i wanted to save $10. My watch, however, is only 4 seconds slow after 5 days. I guess that's due more to luck than a better movement. I've watched your videos and that's what made me decide on the Pagani for a knock around watch. I didn't like the bracelet at all because I couldn't open the clasp. I suppose my jeweller could have adjusted it for me and probably at no charge. I had him take it off and bought a green and black striped NATO strap, It really looks good now and I got a bracelet in reserve. Thanks for the videos. They're really great information. I thank you
Thanks for the great review. Just got my pagani hulk pd1639 today, the exact same one in the review and really love it. Since my wrist is big, about 7 inches, the pagani’s 43mm diameter case fit my wrist really really well. Please do the final showdown between the Invicta and the Pagani soon! I can’t wait to watch the final showdown between the two. Cheers!
Ivan, I enjoy you honest approach to watch reviews. Not everyone can afford thousands of dollars for a timepiece and you provide such a well balanced and respected review regardless of the price. I have been collecting for over 30 years and the thought of buying an Chinese quality watch used to be out of the question but that has significantly changed in the last 10 years. The Pagani is a perfect example, the quality and workmanship exceeds watches 5 years ago that I paid $1000 US for, it's amazing and fun to see. I also greatly like the Parnis brand and I think they are in the same caliber as the Pagani and Loreo. The is a brand called Bliger and they look identical to the Parnis, do you know anything about them, is it a re-branding, are they the same company. Just curious if you or you're subscriber's know anything about them. Thanks very much for all your work, Gene A. Wisconsin, USA
Thank you for your kind words, it is very much appreciated! I have not experienced Bliger myself, but from the looks of things, you may well be right in that it is possibly a simple re-branding of an existing line of products. Cheers! :)
How can you give the Loreo a better score for the case and bezel. The Pagani has a ceramic bezel and look how much better the brushing is. The loreos brushing is much rougher and visible than the Paganis
@@PerthWAtch I agree, the PD's ceramic insert is very pleasing but sadly it is mounted on a poorly finished bezel with serration that will abrade your shirt cuff. Such a shame.
I own a Loreo (day date version) and it offers a lot of bang for buck. It's the perfect size for my 7 inch and a bit wrist. I like the Pagani too apart from that it's too big for me. Don't like big watches anyway. I wear my Loreo often and I really like it a lot. The stainless strap that comes with the Loreo is indeed not great, so I switched it for a Nato strap. It runs +2 sec a week (yes a week, not a day) out of the box, hilariously accurate for a watch like this.
Perhaps the most valuable comparison yet Ivan - well done! The only aspect I feel differently to you on is brand. Whilst Loreo does have a couple of other pretty descent Subbie inspired offerings, Pagani Design have a broader and more interesting back catalogue which includes the Mocktailtime as Jodie put it and a rather fine TAGish Aquaracer offering to not name two. But frankly, all of this is is hair splitting because both are outstanding in terms of VFM and I'm sure that most will find ownership of either very very pleasing. Size is perhaps a real decider for many. My Pagani measures well over 43mm from beside the crown guards to tother side and that's BIG, even on my 7.5" wrist. I just wish I'd bought the Black Loreo like you Ivan - my blue one is compromised by the colour mismatch between bezel and dial and that cheapens it.
Thanks for the great thoughts there David... fair enough comment about the brand I think. I did a review on the TAG homage too myself, not a bad piece at all.
Personally really like the smaller size of the loreo. However, I have slightly larger than 7 inch wrists and am concerned about how the loreo end links will sit on my wrist. Is the curve down drastic enough to change the flow of the bracelet? Great comparison by the way!!
Thanks for that Taha. I think the end links on the Loreo will be fine on larger wrists unless exceptionally flat... they’ve done quite a good job in that aspect.
I must confess I think the Loreo is the better watch. At the end of the day they’re supposed to be diver watches, and so the 200m water resistance of the Loreo wins it for me. Also, here in the UK you can get the Loreo for about £45, whereas the Pagani is about £70. Good review though 😊
Another great video Ivan. I have the Invicta Pro, Pagani, and the Loreo. I believe the Invicta may have the better overall build but the Pagani takes it in the looks department. I am looking forward to the final showdown. Keep that great contact coming. Cheers!
I ordered a Loreo last weekend. Even though I have a big wrist, I really didn't want the larger diameter of the Pagano. We'll see how it is when I receive it.
Great video Ivan. A match that was difficult to call. Both watches great additions to any everyday desk-diver's collection. Interesting that both finalists have the NH35A movement. Both have become popular in the modding world too. Keep up the great work !
Hey bud, been watching your channel for around a month and really enjoy the honest reviews. I've just recently began collecting watches and due to my budget, or if I actually want to wear a watch in the next ten years, which is how long it would take to save for a Rolex, and I have to say have been generally impressed with the value for money these days. I think once people get over their paranoia regarding the quality of all things with the dreaded moniker "Made in China" and actually try them they'll be as pleased as I've been with my Loreo and Parnis purchases. You just can't beat the cost/value ratio. All the best from Toronto and thanks for all the time and effort you've put into your channel. Cheers!
Thanks for that, I appreciate the positive feedback! The great thing about these budget pieces is that they don’t break the bank for most of us, and even if one becomes a total loss, it’s not a huge deal :)
Owning both of these, I don't think you can go wrong either way. If I had had hands-on experience with both before buying and had to choose one, it would be the Loreo. This is simply because I prefer the slightly smaller size. Mine looks to be an older version with hollow end links, so my Pagani definitely has the nicer bracelet, but based on the size, I think I prefer the Loreo. I also got the Loreo in green and the Pagani in black, and totally prefer the green :)
Whew! I just took receipt of my Pagani sub and thought I'd check out your shootout. I did consider Loreo but for the same reasons you illustrated, I chose the Pagani. Glad you confirmed my wise choice. Heh! Also, the Pagani 1661 is the 40mm sub homage which is the one I have. I also have had a Pagani 1662 GMT batman 40mm for a while that gets mistaken for a Rollie GMT quite often. I just smile and say "Thanks!" I have swapped both bracelets out for the OEM style rubber straps. I just like the look and feel of a rubber strap better. Also, being a Chef its much easier work while wearing a rubber strap.
Fantastic comparison, and a long time coming on any watch channel! These two watches have been on my list for a while, and I can't really justify buying both! The Pagani wins out for me because of the specs, but also because the Loreo looks just too similar to my Tevise 801A (which is still going strong after a year).
All I know is I've had my Invicta Grand Diver for 10 years +/- and it's been beat to hell, in the ocean and river 100's of times and it still works fine. The crown action is really good (better than my Orient Ray II and my Longines Hydroconquest) now in all fairness to my Longines I believe she could use a servicing. 99% of the Invictas are pretty much junk in my opinion but the Pro Diver and Grand Divers are pretty damned good. I'd say better than most of the $500.00 and below divers. And at this price point you shouldn't really give a shit about ceramic bezels and sapphire crystals because those extras don't mean shit if the watch doesn't work. At the end of the day the best watch is the one you have on your wrist. Now if I can just sell a few more pints of my blood and my right nut I can get the Super Ocean Heritage. Y'all have a great day and buy all of the watches you can.
Thanks for the interesting thoughts Steve! Although... "the best watch is the one you have on your wrist"?? To paraphrase, is it not that the watch on your wrist won't be worth shit if it doesn't work? ;)
yeah, INVICTA is GOOD !! PERIOD !! I don't give a damn F about what people say, it's a very good brand with an incredible value for the money they ask for.
yes seeeer!!! invicta pro divers are really tough. i will reward my self if i broke mine because i really beat the hell out of it. mountianbiking , surfing, even skimboarding the watch handle all of them.
Thank you very much indeed Sir, very helpful, please Rolex deepsea homage, maybe you can tell the homage, what is the best deepsea homage brand in your opinion, thank you in advance
Rolex be very afraid,,,,. Ha ha ha,,,. Great video,. Looking forward very much to the finale, , ,. (Sat here wearing my Invicta 29178, 42mm, jubilee, and plus 2s a day, lol, ) ,,,.
Invicta’s are embarrassing trash. But they do serve a purpose. That crap brand was my gateway drug into the world of watches both high end and fun cheap cheap watches like the ones being reviewed here.
Ivan, thanks for the great comparison & face-off! I have several Invicta Pro & Grand Divers (Pro's big brother), and they work great, have taken a beating over the years, yet still look good & work perfectly. I recently bought a Pagani PD 1639 and so far, really love it. Unfortunately, I can't put it in the same class as either my Pro diver or Vostok Amphibia, because of it's lack of 200m WR.
Great video I’ve been wanting one of these for a while and agree with your review 100 percent I probably will get a Pagani soon to add to my collection but will probably still also want a Loreo in the future, I really enjoy these affordable submariner homages and dive style watches in general and wish to see some other models of this quality at these prices come out in the future. Cheers, Ken
Great video I have the Loreo and was wondering if I should replace it with the Pagani mostly for better lume so this video was suprising but I stick with it the Pagani is too large for me the Loreo is very comfortable on wrist
Great video, Ivan! I purchased my Pagani Hulk based on your video and I have no regrets! I've been wearing it for a week now and whether or not it has a clone movement (I don't think it does) mine's running at +2.4secs/day (gained a total of 0.9 sec in the last 47 hours when fully wound). The bezel was rather stiff and sharp at first, but after taking it to a hot bath it loosened up and now it's spot on. Perhaps my only issue with the watch would be that I got the short straw that is the bezel - although ceramic and overall pretty solid, mine is barely off center and that triggers my OCD lol. But hey, I guess I can't really complain at all for the price I paid (£44/ USD 57) and the devilishly accurate Seiko mvmt inside.
I love my Pagani green watch however every now and again I can hardly turn the bezel. I run it under some warm water from the tap and it's as good as gold again. Can anybody explain that. My Grandson admired it the other day so I have order him one for his birthday
I would think that they are about even but your comparison is fair, and so much off between both watches. I guess that if you like a smaller case it could have gone the Loreo way but not bad at all. In your final, I think the Invicta will take it but not by much, however, if Invicta would add ceramic and sapphire crystal, it would be one of the best homages of a "Submariner" hand's down. I have one of the first Invicta subs from 96, the styling looks like a 60's sub before they went with the 80's sub look. Mine still works without any issues at all, anyway, can't wait for you to post the finals!
Why is there a final? Just curious... You basically have already got the sum of all values of both watches added up. So you would just need to ell us which one scored higher... XD
@@PerthWAtch My Loreo is a mechanical, as I can wind it to power it, unlike my Orient Mako XL, an automatic, I have to keep it on my wrist for it to operate. But yes, I think you gave both watches a fair assessment. Thanks!
I have both anf using your scoring came up at 71 each, I think the value is about the same and I would have scored the movements as equal as well. My Loreo keeps much better time.
A very nice comparison. Sounds like the Pagani might have a real serious problem. I personally don’t know, but it sounds like it might have a Clone NH35, but is being advertised as a Japan Made Seiko. That’s a big deal. With watches this affordable something has to give, but they should make things clear. I really would not want to have a watch with a fake Movement any more then I would want a fake watch.
Thanks for that - yes I do wish they would be more transparent about this but they wouldn’t the first nor last Chinese company like so. To be fair thought I don’t recall that they said “Seiko” anywhere... just Japan Movement.
@@PerthWAtch They say it's Japan Seiko NH35A and this is not a fake movement it's made by seiko instruments in Malaysia as it's not made to go into a Seiko watch they don't put any name brands...Mine runs more accurate then my Seiko 5 made in Japan with 7S26 movement and the finish on the parts is close if not better on this NH35.
@@islandterror5198 I already did a full disassembly. The movement is real, sapphire is real and 3mm thick and I tweaked and tightened the bezel so now it has that firm high pitch sound ))
I could swear they changed that up from last time I checked, which is entirely possible. No doubt if someone knows what they're doing, they could demonstrate it's real. What is in doubt is whether all watches from PD are the same, something that is far from certain. Others have reported comparisons with a known NH35A/4R35 and shown to be different... Yes, the crystal is real sapphire on both these watches.
I have the Pagani Design watch and the Invicta 8926ob and coin edge. The Pagani to me is way nicer. I love the Pagani. I have SKX, Eco divers, noob v7 and the Pagani I think is my favorite
I like them both and actually have a Pagani Design on the way but at some point a Loreo will be in my line up I prefer the 43 or 42mm dial where as the Loreo is 40mm Good comparison as usually.
I heard somewhere that the Loreo is actally not 200m wr, but 30m ? Anyone? In my opinion the Pagani looks very solid though a stiff bracelet I prefer that, which will ease up in time, whereas I think the Loreo bracelet looks cheaper to me. I do like the 40mm look, but as I have several Orients (wonderful watches) and several Citizens (I have a soft spot for these wonderful watches too) in that classic size, still I will go for a Pagani in green. I have a 7,4 inch wrist so I don't mind the bigger size.
@@PerthWAtch no someone actually said in a video review here on RUclips that the watch is really a 30 meter water resistant. I tried to find it but i couldn't find it again right now.
Oh goody, another watch channel! I always seem to catch you guys at the 25k subscriber mark, these budget autos will be the death of me I swear, great review mate! Subscribed with the bell :)
Better bracelet, ceramic insert, and a better movement. Pagani wins easily for me. There is one watch that beets them both value for money. The Parnis 200m diver is fantastic. Of course, for a little more there is Phoibos and Heimdallr
@@PerthWAtch Available around the £80 mark. I own a Invicta Disney Pro-Diver, Pagani Explorer, and that Parnis. All good watches for the money, but the Parnis is head and shoulders better. www.mywatchcode.com/43mm-parnis-black-dial-sapphire-glass-ceramic-bezel-water-resistant-200m-automatic-stainless-steel_p0951.html
I’ll give it to the Pagani with the ceramic bezel and 2.5x cyclops....but I’m still buying the LOREO though. If the Pagani was 40mm I would totally choose it instead. Just not a fan of watches over 40mm. Great comparison 👍🏼
amazon no longer has the pagani design diver, but the bersigar diver has the nh movement, more potent magnifier, two color lume that makes it thru the night, no plain models yet, but the two tone available in blu and black--got both and not dissappointed. probably prefer a monotone. $100.00 plus tax. threads need lube on the lock down crown. winding is smooth and setting hands precise.....
A more potent magnifier? Now that’s something... this Pagani has the best magnifier I have ever seen on an homage piece like this. Thanks for the info.
With all of the positive write ups and reviews these brands have received you thing they would be more transparent to reviewers as this could increase their branding.
Good point Karl! I think they may answer most of my questions if I bothered posing them (well, at least Pagani anyway coz they collaborate with me, Loreo I bought myself).... but I think more importantly they need to be transparent to potential customers.
I own 3 Pagani Design Watches, because I like the look and heard / read a lot of positive comments about it. Sadly this company has the worlds worst QC. None of my 3 watches worked properly from the beginning. On my Aquaracer homage they haven't set the hands properly, so they stuck and the watch stops. On my PD 1639 is the movement not working properly, so as the third one, which I do not know the reference. It's like hit or Miss. To me personally Pagani to often failed. No Pagani for me anymore. If someone has more luck, he can have a good watch for a very fair price. But to me, to risky...
I own two and they work and look fine - perhaps I got lucky but no QC issues for me - i will likely be ordering the Pagani Daytona homage in the next week or two.
@@karlsenula9495 thats exactly what I think. If they work, they are great bargain. But to sell such watches for those cheap prices they don't check or double check them. I like the look of the Daytona as well.
@@watchfan4 you would think that with all of the positive reviews and write ups that they would want to maintain this positive image in order to increase their branding for increased sales.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts guys... personally I agree that they have some real QC issues, based on my own experience as well as what others have commented. My own watch here has an inconsistent fitting bracelet, and if you look closely the cyclops is clearly not aligned well.
@@PerthWAtch still I think turning off the lights and demonstrating the lack of lume in both watches would have been illuminating to all prospective buyers
Pagani Design all day! I have one in black one is blue and one in green. Great watches and a great value. Having said that, right now, I wouldn’t get anything from China until the world contagion 😷 epidemic is over.
Regardless of that sentiment, fact is that people knock off the $10 Casio F91W. The reason is pretty consistent in almost all cases of counterfeit - money.
Lets face it bezels are 100% ornamental nobody uses them. But the ceramic insert was much underated on the pagani Ceramic inserts cost about $40 as compared to aluminum.
Nah you’re wrong, for restless fiddly people a bezel is infinitely useful. Thanks for sharing your insight on the bezel cost - so you believe the rest of the watch costs $20? Interesting.
You failed to take off of the pagani on quality even with that smeared pip lume on the bezel,you didn’t take off pagani for what I know as a copy of the nh35 movement! So I believe you gave the pagani a cpl points more on quality I wouldn’t have but it’s not my review! I believe they are both great value and you can’t go wrong with either.I’m guessing the pagani is going to beat the invicta by a cpl points so I guess my loreo came in a close second? Lol I enjoyed the review!
Failure only in your judgment... I marked it as I saw fit, totally fine with me. If you have actual evidence that it’s a knockoff movement, please do share it. No one has shown me anything substantial.
For me the Loreo still wins. Sure they both have their pros and cons but I just think that a 43mm watch is just too big. If the Pagani was 40mm I'd buy that one. I bought the Loreo recently and I'm looking forward to it finally ariving
Quite frankly, I disagree with your results. For several reasons. 1.- On the value, the Loreo wins hands down. I bought mine for $59, and the Pagani is at $89, so no contest there. 2.- You need to add the Fit category, and in this one, the Loreo wins with flying colors, as it has the standard Submariner dimensions. The Pagani simple wears and looks way too large, even for thick wrists. 2.- The bezel, as you mention, has a much better build and is more precise with less back play, so simply replacing the aluminum insert with a $10 ceramic insert will do the trick. 3.- The hour hands on the Pagani is quite simply horrible. It looks like a T-Rex. Yes you can change the hands, but you need special tools, and a new set of hands that will increase the cost considerably. 4.- I won't give the Seagull movement a lower rating than the NH35. Mine is running at +- 1 sec a day, and has an amplitude of 325, which is amazing. I expect this one to last quite a long time. 5.- On the durability, you already mentioned that the case of the Loreo has better quality, so if you do a Timegrapher test to the Pagani you can check how healthy the movement is, so I wouldn't give it an advantage to either until you can make such a test. The only category in which I agree is the bracelet, although mine fits alright. It doesn't have any type of on-the-fly adjustments, like the Rolex Glide Lock system, but I plan to fix that soon. In fact, I just ordered a new set of hands with better lume and a green ceramic bezel to mod mine into a Kermit clone, with black dial and green bezel. I'll touch all of this in my Loreo review that should be uploaded in a few days, and once I get the parts, I'll shoot the video of the conversion, so since I subscribed to your channel, I invite you to subscribe to mine as well. After that conversion is done, I plan to swap the bracelet with a full Oyster with glide-lock system. So if I add the cost of the bezel, plus the bracelet, excluding the hands, I"ll get closer to the price of the Pagani, and I'll get a way better watch in all regards. But still without any conversion, I give the edge to the Loreo. Oh, I forgot to mention. They have definitively fixed the cyclops issue. Mine has a magnification that looks exactly like the Pagani. You'll see that on my review.
Thanks for taking the time to make a very detailed comment. I'll respond in similar numbered fashion: 1. Value has to do with what you get - an ounce of wood is not the same as an ounce of gold, etc. 2. Fit category is interesting proposition, but that would make my score out of 110, which I can't abide by ;) 3. You numbering is wrong - this puts the rest of my replies out of order, but the sequence is correct. 4. $10 ceramic insert *IF* you can find a satisfactory fit and contour. Add to that waiting, potential returns, and your time and labor makes it well over $100 worth. Value gets flushed down the gutter, etc, etc. 5. Hour hands look much of a muchness between the two to me. Two T-rexes then? 6. Many (or most) would not put the Seagull the same as the NH35. Yours happens to be regulated well, mine isn't... I can't mark this based on yours. It's also got more to it than regulation and amplitude - track record is important, and the NH35 has more than 10 years behind it of good results now. 7. Good to hear they fixed the cyclops - again, I must mark based on what I got, not what they could've or would've or should've done. Cheers man!
@@PerthWAtch I agree completely that my experience, and my sample, must be quite different than yours, thus the discrepancy in opinion. And thanks to you for the detailed reply. Have a superb day!
I where a Pagani design watch submariner every day as a knock around watch I don't have any problem with the bracelet the basil everything lines up on my watch I have been wearing it for 6mth now and I do everything in it
I'd disagree on your score of the Case and Bezel... But only on my own examples of both watches. There's zero play on my Pagani bezel, and the ceramic insert is worth an extra point in my book. I just wish they did the Pagani in a 40mm case, rather than a 43mm. As far as the durability goes, I'd go the other way and give it to the Loreo, purely because the crown stem on the Pagani is very dodgy, and I'm not convinced it'll last more than a year of semi regular use. I might be wrong, only time will tell.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts. So basically you agree... if you saw a bezel having as much play as I clearly demonstrated, you would mark it down as I did. The stem on my Pagani feels fine, but given the poor QC of this company it is entirely plausible that some of their product will feel entirely different.
@@PerthWAtch absolutely, the QC is what really marks the Pagani down. My watch has a blemish on the lume of one of the indicies, as well as there being a slight scratch to the steel of one of the indicies as well. Neither are particularly noticeable to the naked eye, but they are there, and suggest not a lot of care and attention goes into the watch. It makes it a hard watch to recommend as, although the spec sheet is fantastic, I'll never be 100% confident it'll last - but then the same can be said of the Loreo. On my example the 12 o'clock index is misaligned, and there's noticeably less lume on one of the indicies compared with the others. Ultimately though, if you're prepared to risk £60 on either of them, the chances are you're going to get a great watch for the money, albeit with a few defects here and there. The QC on the Pagani wasn't enough if a negative to stop me buying their Daytona homage a while back too, which appears to be QC issue free so far. 👍🏼
You are the wrong the Loreo performs better in that it is 200m as opposed to the lesser Pagani ;) Why do you think you need to know the date when you are underwater diving? :DDD
Nah, it’s better than that coz no way I would score a real Sub 100 points! ;) PS. Scale isn’t quite linear and definitely can’t be used to compare proportionally like that
I compared the polishing of two Pagani watches to my Sea Urchin, and I saw the Sea Urchin has far better polishing than both. My second Pagani's dive extension is so poorly made that it cannot be extended. Thanks for the video!
I vote for loreo because of this factors. Loreo looks better including hands and watch case not to mention the size. Name i hate pagani design it is tho worst name in history it sounds like pagani honda t-shirt. Moviment i don't say segull moviment is better than nh-35 but it is up there mine is performing amazingly . It just adds a bit of caracter to the watch, also mine has beautiful geneva stripes decoration. Pagani design does have the ceramic bezel which is cool, but i like aluminium bezel insert like on pre-ceramic submariners. In fact i like loreo so much that it is only homage watch that i have kept in my collection
Perth WAtch did you say it? I must miss it. But then why did you give higher score to aluminum? Make no sense. Even if the aluminum one is tighter, but the material is much lower grade than ceramic though. I also own both, the ceramic look and feel much much better.
Yes I said it... and like I said I covered material in a *different* category, with bezel mark being mainly feel (you don’t feel the ceramic, you feel the steel and the detents, and the Pagani is lousy, plain and simple) and appearance (again like I said, the Pagani has QC issues with a big blemish). For the rest of the details, you’re gonna have to just rewatch the video.
Perth WAtch yeah. My P didn’t had the diffraction on its bezel and it was actually better than L the L one I have , the bezel is almost not possible but o turn. Took me a while to turn it back to the north.
So it looks like Invicta just pips the Pagani as the overall winner. Assuming scores awarded to each watch in the Semis stay the same, the Invicta wins by 75 to 74.
Interesting observation Chris... but my bet is that the scores may change depending on the actual comparison, so may not yet be a foregone conclusion. All will be revealed in 2 hours with the release of the FINAL! :)
@@PerthWAtch Lol thanks for the comment, I was just being mischievous! I'm planning to get (and modify) an Invicta, but I really prefer the Pagani. My Daytona homage is wonderful, but I have smallish wrists so 43mm is just too big. Keep up the good work 🍻
The Pagani's (and Steeldive, another Aliexpress brand) sometimes have a cyclops showing a comically large date. Not sure of the cyclops uses 3x magnification or if their date font is too large, but it doesn't fit the window. It's an ugly blemish on an otherwise handsome watch. I have to go with Loreo myself, which -imho- also beats out Invicta's pro diver because it lacks the latter's ugly branding touches and has far better hour indices.
Loreo: Solid end links, pressed clasp, sapphire glass, aluminium bezel, and a really poor brass movement with serious hacking issues. Cost £120 Pagani Design: Solid end links, Rolex style security clasp with the 5mm extension and screw links. Ceramic bezel and sapphire glass. The movement is Seiko NH35A. Cost £51. Strange that, the Pagani Design is half the price of the Loreo and yet the qaulity should take the Pagani Design into the £200+ bracket. The Loreo is way over priced, and the Pagani Design is underpriced.
Both watches are $70-75 for me. Pagani ticks the boxes on the spec list for sure... if only those ticks automatically translate to quality and good implementation, but obviously it doesn’t necessarily do that. Pagani won overall in this comparison but it was by no means the white wash that one might’ve expected going by the specs alone.
Pagani has a problem with bracelet for sure.Two days wearing it fell a part,screws came loose ,watch fall down,damaged case.NH35 still working,thanks to Seiko.Quality also not a great.
Excellent review - but I think you missed something really badly - Bracelets. I own both of these watches. The Loreo bracelet is horribly finished and the clasp is a mess - maybe a 5 at best. The bracelet on the Pagani is better than $90 Strapcode bracelets I have for Seikos and the fake flip lock clasp is better than the clasp on my 2017 Omega Seamaster. I give it a 9.
I missed it? I had whole category for bracelet! Did you not see me demonstrate the bracelet fit on the Pagani is inconsistent? I did also mention the finish is better on Pagani. But the QC is very bad... many viewers have reported their clasp is difficult to use and the extension needs pliers to push back in! In the end I still gave bracelet win to Pagani... so I’m not sure what you think I missed.
@@PerthWAtch by "missed it", I meant I substantially disagreed with your score - I agreed with all the other categories but still think you overrated the Loreo and underrated the Pagani
Nothing bigger than a 40mm. Goes on my wrist. The big square metal top and bottom. means it often doesn't round the wrist properly.The dopey Bliger I have only has 30 m water resistance. Whats the point of a screw down crown if thats all it does. So it would be Loreo.
I have that exact green Pagani. It's really a great watch. The movement, the sapphire and the cyclops (yes, that little thing!) made it stand apart for me. It's sooo rare to get a budget-level sub homage that has a cyclops that actually magnifies! It's practical to implement and it shows attention to detail. I never ever thought I'd get any satisfaction out of a 1) chinese budget mechanical, 2) chinese budget sub homage or 3) watch with "Pagani Design" on the dial, but here we are, and I now have 2 of them!
Thanks for sharing those thoughts Randy - very glad to hear you’re really enjoying them! :)
Agree.
Pagani more or less is a sea dweller homage.
The borders of sapphire crystal is well finished as well as cyclops lenses magnification
I guess in a way you can consider it a Sea Dweller homage, although it's really in between in size, not to mention has the cyclops (looking at the Deep Sea which is without cyclops).
Pagani is 42mm x 13mm thick. Rolex 126600 is 43mm x 15mm thick. I think they were gunning for the standard Sub but with an upsize.
Not the first time and *definitely* won't the last time a Chinese company puts wrong info on a listing ;)
@@PerthWAtch I measured the case at just over 43 mm
You either measured wrongly or you have a different size... I used vernier calipers ;)
I just got my Pagani Hulk homage. Absolutely love it. Love the bigger size. I have almost 8" wrist and 43mm is my sweet spot. Since I would never spend $11,000 on a Rolex, this is all I need
Nice one - glad you’re enjoying it!
42mm is just too big for me so I got a Loreo, and bought a ceramic bezel insert for it for like $5, and put it on a Nato strap. I like the faceted hands on it. I also like that there's a version of the Loreo with day/date.
The Pagani has an edge with the movement, but the Loreo is built better.
Thanks - I pretty much agree with those sentiments!
Where did you find a ceramic bezel insert for that amazing price ? It's usually like ten times more expensive....
They now have the 40mm model no. pd 1661
@@nmtoolsandgadgets4963 pagani have a 40mm?
The pagani may not have an advantage of the better movement if it’s not a real seiko nh35 movement people are saying it doesn’t look as advertised! I have a loreo hulk but may buy a pagani so I have all 3 as I have the invicta too!
I have to agree, although I only own the Loreo, I did place an order for a Pagani due to the ceramic bezel and lume pip making it more like a rolex. I really am enjoying the Loreo and its wearability, and the movement of mine is doing well with a +12 sec/day error.
Thanks for sharing that - glad to hear you’ve enjoyed your Loreo :)
Do you have accuracy tests on both watches? I was expecting you would have included that in your performance review.
Accuracy is to do with movement category rather than performance. For how well these individual ones are regulated, check out the original reviews.
Ended up getting a Pagani over the Loreo, just didn't like the polished middle links on the bracelet.
It's a very reliable time keeper, just wish it was the classic 40mm size.
You chose,,,, WISELY !
Some viewers posted links on my Pagani review of a 40mm Sub homage they apparently now make...
Perth WAtch Can you direct me to that link? I would really appreciate it, as I am on the verge of ordering a Loreo, but would prefer a 40mm Pagani if possible!
@@silverfish126 it's really ugly tho
I got a PD 39 with green dial and black bezel. You're spot on about it's bezel. It is terribly loose. The difference in mine is I selected the Miyota 8215 instead of the NH35.i wanted to save $10. My watch, however, is only 4 seconds slow after 5 days. I guess that's due more to luck than a better movement. I've watched your videos and that's what made me decide on the Pagani for a knock around watch. I didn't like the bracelet at all because I couldn't open the clasp. I suppose my jeweller could have adjusted it for me and probably at no charge. I had him take it off and bought a green and black striped NATO strap, It really looks good now and I got a bracelet in reserve. Thanks for the videos. They're really great information. I thank you
Thanks for sharing that info bro, glad you’re enjoying it and managed to find a suitable strap after taking off the bracelet! :)
Thanks for the great review. Just got my pagani hulk pd1639 today, the exact same one in the review and really love it. Since my wrist is big, about 7 inches, the pagani’s 43mm diameter case fit my wrist really really well.
Please do the final showdown between the Invicta and the Pagani soon! I can’t wait to watch the final showdown between the two.
Cheers!
Thanks for the thoughts - well it won't be too long before I publish the FINAL SHOWDOWN :)
Ivan, I enjoy you honest approach to watch reviews. Not everyone can afford thousands of dollars for a timepiece and you provide such a well balanced and respected review regardless of the price. I have been collecting for over 30 years and the thought of buying an Chinese quality watch used to be out of the question but that has significantly changed in the last 10 years. The Pagani is a perfect example, the quality and workmanship exceeds watches 5 years ago that I paid $1000 US for, it's amazing and fun to see. I also greatly like the Parnis brand and I think they are in the same caliber as the Pagani and Loreo. The is a brand called Bliger and they look identical to the Parnis, do you know anything about them, is it a re-branding, are they the same company. Just curious if you or you're subscriber's know anything about them.
Thanks very much for all your work,
Gene A.
Wisconsin, USA
Thank you for your kind words, it is very much appreciated!
I have not experienced Bliger myself, but from the looks of things, you may well be right in that it is possibly a simple re-branding of an existing line of products. Cheers! :)
How can you give the Loreo a better score for the case and bezel. The Pagani has a ceramic bezel and look how much better the brushing is. The loreos brushing is much rougher and visible than the Paganis
He mentioned that the Pagani's bezel was poorly fit.
Loreo case finishing is better, and bezel fit & feel is very much better, as discussed in detail. Ceramic is accounted for under value category.
@@PerthWAtch I agree, the PD's ceramic insert is very pleasing but sadly it is mounted on a poorly finished bezel with serration that will abrade your shirt cuff. Such a shame.
I own a Loreo (day date version) and it offers a lot of bang for buck. It's the perfect size for my 7 inch and a bit wrist. I like the Pagani too apart from that it's too big for me. Don't like big watches anyway. I wear my Loreo often and I really like it a lot. The stainless strap that comes with the Loreo is indeed not great, so I switched it for a Nato strap. It runs +2 sec a week (yes a week, not a day) out of the box, hilariously accurate for a watch like this.
That's awesome man, you got a good one! Thanks for sharing :)
Perhaps the most valuable comparison yet Ivan - well done! The only aspect I feel differently to you on is brand. Whilst Loreo does have a couple of other pretty descent Subbie inspired offerings, Pagani Design have a broader and more interesting back catalogue which includes the Mocktailtime as Jodie put it and a rather fine TAGish Aquaracer offering to not name two. But frankly, all of this is is hair splitting because both are outstanding in terms of VFM and I'm sure that most will find ownership of either very very pleasing. Size is perhaps a real decider for many. My Pagani measures well over 43mm from beside the crown guards to tother side and that's BIG, even on my 7.5" wrist. I just wish I'd bought the Black Loreo like you Ivan - my blue one is compromised by the colour mismatch between bezel and dial and that cheapens it.
Thanks for the great thoughts there David... fair enough comment about the brand I think. I did a review on the TAG homage too myself, not a bad piece at all.
Personally really like the smaller size of the loreo. However, I have slightly larger than 7 inch wrists and am concerned about how the loreo end links will sit on my wrist. Is the curve down drastic enough to change the flow of the bracelet? Great comparison by the way!!
Thanks for that Taha. I think the end links on the Loreo will be fine on larger wrists unless exceptionally flat... they’ve done quite a good job in that aspect.
I must confess I think the Loreo is the better watch. At the end of the day they’re supposed to be diver watches, and so the 200m water resistance of the Loreo wins it for me. Also, here in the UK you can get the Loreo for about £45, whereas the Pagani is about £70. Good review though 😊
That’s fair enough Gary - at those prices the value proposition becomes a slightly different story.
Another great video Ivan. I have the Invicta Pro, Pagani, and the Loreo. I believe the Invicta may have the better overall build but the Pagani takes it in the looks department. I am looking forward to the final showdown. Keep that great contact coming. Cheers!
Thanks for that Jay - oh yeah, keep an eye out for the CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS! :)
I ordered a Loreo last weekend. Even though I have a big wrist, I really didn't want the larger diameter of the Pagano. We'll see how it is when I receive it.
Cool... let us know what you think once you get it!
Interesting comparison, look forward to the final....⌚🏴⌚🏴
Thanks Brian - you and me both :)
Great video Ivan. A match that was difficult to call. Both watches great additions to any everyday desk-diver's collection. Interesting that both finalists have the NH35A movement. Both have become popular in the modding world too. Keep up the great work !
Thanks for that Martin - yeah I think it was odds-on that the NH35A dominates given 3 of the 4 watches in the semis use that :)
The Loreo have a Chinese Seagold movement, not a Seiko like the Pagani watch.
Hey bud, been watching your channel for around a month and really enjoy the honest reviews. I've just recently began collecting watches and due to my budget, or if I actually want to wear a watch in the next ten years, which is how long it would take to save for a Rolex, and I have to say have been generally impressed with the value for money these days. I think once people get over their paranoia regarding the quality of all things with the dreaded moniker "Made in China" and actually try them they'll be as pleased as I've been with my Loreo and Parnis purchases. You just can't beat the cost/value ratio. All the best from Toronto and thanks for all the time and effort you've put into your channel. Cheers!
Thanks for that, I appreciate the positive feedback! The great thing about these budget pieces is that they don’t break the bank for most of us, and even if one becomes a total loss, it’s not a huge deal :)
Owning both of these, I don't think you can go wrong either way. If I had had hands-on experience with both before buying and had to choose one, it would be the Loreo. This is simply because I prefer the slightly smaller size. Mine looks to be an older version with hollow end links, so my Pagani definitely has the nicer bracelet, but based on the size, I think I prefer the Loreo. I also got the Loreo in green and the Pagani in black, and totally prefer the green :)
Thanks for sharing those thoughts - fair enough to prefer the Loreo I think, not everyone likes a 42mm.
@@PerthWAtch All that said, they're both excellent watches, especially considering the price, and I'm happy to own both!
Whew! I just took receipt of my Pagani sub and thought I'd check out your shootout. I did consider Loreo but for the same reasons you illustrated, I chose the Pagani. Glad you confirmed my wise choice. Heh! Also, the Pagani 1661 is the 40mm sub homage which is the one I have. I also have had a Pagani 1662 GMT batman 40mm for a while that gets mistaken for a Rollie GMT quite often. I just smile and say "Thanks!" I have swapped both bracelets out for the OEM style rubber straps. I just like the look and feel of a rubber strap better. Also, being a Chef its much easier work while wearing a rubber strap.
Very nice - thanks for sharing from your experiences! :)
Fantastic comparison, and a long time coming on any watch channel! These two watches have been on my list for a while, and I can't really justify buying both! The Pagani wins out for me because of the specs, but also because the Loreo looks just too similar to my Tevise 801A (which is still going strong after a year).
Thanks for that - glad you enjoyed this! Do keep an eye out for the final showdown :)
Why can’t you justify just buying both? They are dirt cheap and good watches. You only live once
All I know is I've had my Invicta Grand Diver for 10 years +/- and it's been beat to hell, in the ocean and river 100's of times and it still works fine. The crown action is really good (better than my Orient Ray II and my Longines Hydroconquest) now in all fairness to my Longines I believe she could use a servicing. 99% of the Invictas are pretty much junk in my opinion but the Pro Diver and Grand Divers are pretty damned good. I'd say better than most of the $500.00 and below divers. And at this price point you shouldn't really give a shit about ceramic bezels and sapphire crystals because those extras don't mean shit if the watch doesn't work. At the end of the day the best watch is the one you have on your wrist. Now if I can just sell a few more pints of my blood and my right nut I can get the Super Ocean Heritage. Y'all have a great day and buy all of the watches you can.
Thanks for the interesting thoughts Steve! Although... "the best watch is the one you have on your wrist"?? To paraphrase, is it not that the watch on your wrist won't be worth shit if it doesn't work? ;)
@@PerthWAtch Hell I don't know partner. All I know is that I love me some wristwatches.
yeah, INVICTA is GOOD !! PERIOD !! I don't give a damn F about what people say, it's a very good brand with an incredible value for the money they ask for.
@@BurntPlaydoh yeah the $500.00 thing was a little bold. Let me knock that down to $250.00.
yes seeeer!!! invicta pro divers are really tough. i will reward my self if i broke mine because i really beat the hell out of it. mountianbiking , surfing, even skimboarding the watch handle all of them.
Thank you very much indeed Sir, very helpful, please Rolex deepsea homage, maybe you can tell the homage,
what is the best deepsea homage brand in your opinion, thank you in advance
Dunno man, TBH I’ve never had a Deepsea homage
Rolex be very afraid,,,,. Ha ha ha,,,.
Great video,. Looking forward very much to the finale, , ,. (Sat here wearing my Invicta 29178, 42mm, jubilee, and plus 2s a day, lol, ) ,,,.
Thanks for that! Haha I’m sure Rolex would crap their pants seeing this... not :)
Nice Invicta on jubilee btw!
Invicta’s are embarrassing trash. But they do serve a purpose. That crap brand was my gateway drug into the world of watches both high end and fun cheap cheap watches like the ones being reviewed here.
Ivan, thanks for the great comparison & face-off! I have several Invicta Pro & Grand Divers (Pro's big brother), and they work great, have taken a beating over the years, yet still look good & work perfectly. I recently bought a Pagani PD 1639 and so far, really love it. Unfortunately, I can't put it in the same class as either my Pro diver or Vostok Amphibia, because of it's lack of 200m WR.
Thanks for those thoughts there - hang in there for the FINAL SHOWDOWN! :)
@@PerthWAtch - Oh, no worries, I will! Even if I don't always agree, I love your face-off videos! Keep up the great work!
Somehow the Pagani looks fresher, can't really put my finger on it why but to me it just does.
Must be the green... you know, fresh veggies, gardens, trees etc? ;)
Ceramic bezel gives it a more classy look. The magnification cyclops is just spot on 👍 hulk green really does look great.
Great video I’ve been wanting one of these for a while and agree with your review 100 percent I probably will get a Pagani soon to add to my collection but will probably still also want a Loreo in the future, I really enjoy these affordable submariner homages and dive style watches in general and wish to see some other models of this quality at these prices come out in the future.
Cheers, Ken
Thanks for that Ken, glad you enjoyed this and found it informative! All the best with acquiring those new additions :)
I bought the Pagani 6 or 7 months ago and it's great beater for the money, very hard to beat but dont let it get near water!
Thanks for sharing that - oh dear, did yours take on water after exposure??
i bought the pagani and i received it but the cyclops is not spot on 3 o clock center :(
Yeah that’s often the case with such variable QC on these products
Great video I have the Loreo and was wondering if I should replace it with the Pagani mostly for better lume so this video was suprising but I stick with it the Pagani is too large for me the Loreo is very comfortable on wrist
Thanks for sharing those thoughts - both have fairly poor lume but the Pagani is worse :)
@@PerthWAtch We cant have it all unfortunately haha great content though thanks! 😌
Great video, Ivan! I purchased my Pagani Hulk based on your video and I have no regrets! I've been wearing it for a week now and whether or not it has a clone movement (I don't think it does) mine's running at +2.4secs/day (gained a total of 0.9 sec in the last 47 hours when fully wound).
The bezel was rather stiff and sharp at first, but after taking it to a hot bath it loosened up and now it's spot on. Perhaps my only issue with the watch would be that I got the short straw that is the bezel - although ceramic and overall pretty solid, mine is barely off center and that triggers my OCD lol. But hey, I guess I can't really complain at all for the price I paid (£44/ USD 57) and the devilishly accurate Seiko mvmt inside.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with the Pagani. Very glad to hear that you’ve been having great results and are really enjoying it :)
Where did you purchase your Pagani for such a great price??
I much prefer the PD fully brushed bracelet and ceramic bezel insert.
Thank you for sharing the thoughts!
Great video. Will Pagani make 40mm watch? I like the sunburst on Pagani.
They have a 40mm daytona
I think some viewers posted links in the Pagani video of a 40mm Sub homage
I think you nailed it very well. Excellant job on your reviews.
Thanks for that man :)
I love my Pagani green watch however every now and again I can hardly turn the bezel. I run it under some warm water from the tap and it's as good as gold again. Can anybody explain that.
My Grandson admired it the other day so I have order him one for his birthday
Probably just expansion of the ratchets or surrounding parts loosening it up again
Very interesting, & I believe the result was spot on. 👍 looking forward to the final! 😁
Thanks for that Adrian, glad you enjoyed this :)
Try a Loreo if you have Invicta. I did, and i settled for a Loreo. Its personal preferences.
Thanks for sharing :)
I would think that they are about even but your comparison is fair, and so much off between both watches. I guess that if you like a smaller case it could have gone the Loreo way but not bad at all. In your final, I think the Invicta will take it but not by much, however, if Invicta would add ceramic and sapphire crystal, it would be one of the best homages of a "Submariner" hand's down.
I have one of the first Invicta subs from 96, the styling looks like a 60's sub before they went with the 80's sub look. Mine still works without any issues at all, anyway, can't wait for you to post the finals!
Thanks for that - good points you made there! Finals out soon! :)
@@PerthWAtch Welcome and can't wait to check out your next vid!
I think your pagani also has the cyclops nog straight at 3 o'clock?
Yep, very much so!
Is the Pagani 42mm?
Yes
Why is there a final? Just curious... You basically have already got the sum of all values of both watches added up. So you would just need to ell us which one scored higher... XD
If that was the case why didn’t you do that? I showed the marks to you.
PS. Look again at the scores ;)
The Pagani win if not big
I own the Loreo, very smooth hand winding movement, very nice watch. I purchased the Pagani Hulk for $60 on sale with aliexpress.
Loreo it's an automatic movement though...
Cool, so you have both of these? Do you agree with the comparison?
@@PerthWAtch My Loreo is a mechanical, as I can wind it to power it, unlike my Orient Mako XL, an automatic, I have to keep it on my wrist for it to operate. But yes, I think you gave both watches a fair assessment. Thanks!
I have both anf using your scoring came up at 71 each, I think the value is about the same and I would have scored the movements as equal as well. My Loreo keeps much better time.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Great review. Keep up the good work 👏
Thanks :)
A very nice comparison.
Sounds like the Pagani might have a real serious problem. I personally don’t know, but it sounds like it might have a Clone NH35, but is being advertised as a Japan Made Seiko. That’s a big deal. With watches this affordable something has to give, but they should make things clear. I really would not want to have a watch with a fake Movement any more then I would want a fake watch.
Thanks for that - yes I do wish they would be more transparent about this but they wouldn’t the first nor last Chinese company like so. To be fair thought I don’t recall that they said “Seiko” anywhere... just Japan Movement.
@@PerthWAtch They say it's Japan Seiko NH35A and this is not a fake movement it's made by seiko instruments in Malaysia as it's not made to go into a Seiko watch they don't put any name brands...Mine runs more accurate then my Seiko 5 made in Japan with 7S26 movement and the finish on the parts is close if not better on this NH35.
I say open up that Pagani and investigate . Give us the real 💩 poop ! Lol 👍
@@islandterror5198 I already did a full disassembly. The movement is real, sapphire is real and 3mm thick and I tweaked and tightened the bezel so now it has that firm high pitch sound ))
I could swear they changed that up from last time I checked, which is entirely possible. No doubt if someone knows what they're doing, they could demonstrate it's real. What is in doubt is whether all watches from PD are the same, something that is far from certain. Others have reported comparisons with a known NH35A/4R35 and shown to be different...
Yes, the crystal is real sapphire on both these watches.
I have the Pagani Design watch and the Invicta 8926ob and coin edge. The Pagani to me is way nicer. I love the Pagani. I have SKX, Eco divers, noob v7 and the Pagani I think is my favorite
Awesome man, thanks for sharing that! :)
Love my Loreo but the bezel insert scratches up if you abuse it, which I do. Ceramic is the way to go.
Yep aluminium scratches up, that’s for sure. But it won’t shatter like ceramic might.
@@PerthWAtch good point
welcome back teacher thank you watching 🙇🏻♂️
Thank you :)
I like them both and actually have a Pagani Design on the way but at some point a Loreo will be in my line up
I prefer the 43 or 42mm dial
where as the Loreo is 40mm
Good comparison as usually.
Nice one - thanks :)
I heard somewhere that the Loreo is actally not 200m wr, but 30m ? Anyone?
In my opinion the Pagani looks very solid though a stiff bracelet I prefer that, which will ease up in time, whereas I think the Loreo bracelet looks cheaper to me.
I do like the 40mm look, but as I have several Orients (wonderful watches) and several Citizens (I have a soft spot for these wonderful watches too) in that classic size, still I will go for a Pagani in green.
I have a 7,4 inch wrist so I don't mind the bigger size.
Maybe the user forgot to screw the crown down when swimming??
@@PerthWAtch no someone actually said in a video review here on RUclips that the watch is really a 30 meter water resistant.
I tried to find it but i couldn't find it again right now.
Very strange... as in the company told him it’s actually 30m??
Why are the scores so high for both?
Because they are both awesome watches of course! ;)
@@PerthWAtch Nice answer.
My Pagani case is 44mm measured 10 to 4.
Which model is that one?
@@PerthWAtch Same as yours, but gold and black model. Mitatoya digital micrometer 43.98mm.
I just got a loreo 'hulk' today. Cost my mum $40 and I have to say that that is 10/10 value and I'm really happy with it
Cost your mum $40?? How old are you?
@@PerthWAtch 13
Great review and correct result 👍
Thanks Andy :)
I have just bought PD sub, hulk, i think its bezel is not good. Your video is true..
Thanks :)
Oh goody, another watch channel! I always seem to catch you guys at the 25k subscriber mark, these budget autos will be the death of me I swear, great review mate!
Subscribed with the bell :)
Oh cool thanks - welcome aboard! Curious to hear that... maybe I need to work harder on my thumbnails! :D
Better bracelet, ceramic insert, and a better movement. Pagani wins easily for me. There is one watch that beets them both value for money. The Parnis 200m diver is fantastic. Of course, for a little more there is Phoibos and Heimdallr
How much is the Parnis?
@@PerthWAtch Available around the £80 mark. I own a Invicta Disney Pro-Diver, Pagani Explorer, and that Parnis. All good watches for the money, but the Parnis is head and shoulders better. www.mywatchcode.com/43mm-parnis-black-dial-sapphire-glass-ceramic-bezel-water-resistant-200m-automatic-stainless-steel_p0951.html
I’ll give it to the Pagani with the ceramic bezel and 2.5x cyclops....but I’m still buying the LOREO though. If the Pagani was 40mm I would totally choose it instead. Just not a fan of watches over 40mm. Great comparison 👍🏼
Some viewers posted links of a 40mm version of the Pagani in the review video.
I went with the Loreo because I prefer the 40mm case size.
Pagani do 40mm also
Good comparison. 👍🌟🌟🌟
Thanks! 👍
amazon no longer has the pagani design diver, but the bersigar diver has the nh movement, more potent magnifier, two color lume that makes it thru the night, no plain models yet, but the two tone available in blu and black--got both and not dissappointed. probably prefer a monotone. $100.00 plus tax. threads need lube on the lock down crown. winding is smooth and setting hands precise.....
A more potent magnifier? Now that’s something... this Pagani has the best magnifier I have ever seen on an homage piece like this. Thanks for the info.
i have not seen the pagani in person, but suspect it and the bersigar are essentially the same watch with different branding and the same magnifier...
With all of the positive write ups and reviews these brands have received you thing they would be more transparent to reviewers as this could increase their branding.
Good point Karl! I think they may answer most of my questions if I bothered posing them (well, at least Pagani anyway coz they collaborate with me, Loreo I bought myself).... but I think more importantly they need to be transparent to potential customers.
@@PerthWAtch I think MANY MANY viewers of you channel (as well as many others) would be fascinated by the answers.
What a great championship, subscribed and waiting for the grand final
Cool, thanks man! :)
I own 3 Pagani Design Watches, because I like the look and heard / read a lot of positive comments about it. Sadly this company has the worlds worst QC. None of my 3 watches worked properly from the beginning. On my Aquaracer homage they haven't set the hands properly, so they stuck and the watch stops. On my PD 1639 is the movement not working properly, so as the third one, which I do not know the reference. It's like hit or Miss. To me personally Pagani to often failed. No Pagani for me anymore. If someone has more luck, he can have a good watch for a very fair price. But to me, to risky...
I own two and they work and look fine - perhaps I got lucky but no QC issues for me - i will likely be ordering the Pagani Daytona homage in the next week or two.
@@karlsenula9495 thats exactly what I think. If they work, they are great bargain. But to sell such watches for those cheap prices they don't check or double check them. I like the look of the Daytona as well.
@@watchfan4 you would think that with all of the positive reviews and write ups that they would want to maintain this positive image in order to increase their branding for increased sales.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts guys... personally I agree that they have some real QC issues, based on my own experience as well as what others have commented. My own watch here has an inconsistent fitting bracelet, and if you look closely the cyclops is clearly not aligned well.
Send one I need parts lol
lume comparison?
The lume is always equally disappointing in all these homage brands.
Check out the performance category discussion.
“All budget homage lume are equally disappointing but some are more equal than others” ;)
@@skylerphoenix8880 indeed
@@PerthWAtch still I think turning off the lights and demonstrating the lack of lume in both watches would have been illuminating to all prospective buyers
Ah I see what you did there - nice one! ;)
Cyclops and and number font gives Pagani the nod along with the clasp, leaves Loreo in the dust, although Loreo inner bezel is more Rolex style
Yep, fair enough. Overall Pagani takes it.
Pagani Design all day! I have one in black one is blue and one in green. Great watches and a great value. Having said that, right now, I wouldn’t get anything from China until the world contagion 😷 epidemic is over.
Haha thanks... well I think unless you're getting liquids or organics, viruses shouldn't survive the postage trip!
@@PerthWAtch I just ordered a watch from China, I didn't even think about the epidemic. I ordered I Reginald watch with Japanese movement.
If the Loreo didn't have polished centre links on the bracelet I would buy one.
Regardless of that sentiment, fact is that people knock off the $10 Casio F91W. The reason is pretty consistent in almost all cases of counterfeit - money.
id give an 8 to 6 for the movement in favour of the pagani. other than that it seems pretty fair
Fair enough mate.
Nice video.
Thanks!
Lets face it bezels are 100% ornamental nobody uses them. But the ceramic insert was much underated on the pagani Ceramic inserts cost about $40 as compared to aluminum.
Nah you’re wrong, for restless fiddly people a bezel is infinitely useful. Thanks for sharing your insight on the bezel cost - so you believe the rest of the watch costs $20? Interesting.
Great video, I’ve been looking for a direct comparison of these two watches, to see they side by side has been great. Thank you 👍
Thanks for that - glad it was helpful!
You failed to take off of the pagani on quality even with that smeared pip lume on the bezel,you didn’t take off pagani for what I know as a copy of the nh35 movement! So I believe you gave the pagani a cpl points more on quality I wouldn’t have but it’s not my review! I believe they are both great value and you can’t go wrong with either.I’m guessing the pagani is going to beat the invicta by a cpl points so I guess my loreo came in a close second? Lol I enjoyed the review!
Failure only in your judgment... I marked it as I saw fit, totally fine with me. If you have actual evidence that it’s a knockoff movement, please do share it. No one has shown me anything substantial.
For me the Loreo still wins. Sure they both have their pros and cons but I just think that a 43mm watch is just too big.
If the Pagani was 40mm I'd buy that one.
I bought the Loreo recently and I'm looking forward to it finally ariving
Thanks for sharing those thoughts - Pagani now make a 40mm version too (this one is 42mm not 43mm), although in somewhat different colorways.
Quite frankly, I disagree with your results. For several reasons. 1.- On the value, the Loreo wins hands down. I bought mine for $59, and the Pagani is at $89, so no contest there. 2.- You need to add the Fit category, and in this one, the Loreo wins with flying colors, as it has the standard Submariner dimensions. The Pagani simple wears and looks way too large, even for thick wrists. 2.- The bezel, as you mention, has a much better build and is more precise with less back play, so simply replacing the aluminum insert with a $10 ceramic insert will do the trick. 3.- The hour hands on the Pagani is quite simply horrible. It looks like a T-Rex. Yes you can change the hands, but you need special tools, and a new set of hands that will increase the cost considerably. 4.- I won't give the Seagull movement a lower rating than the NH35. Mine is running at +- 1 sec a day, and has an amplitude of 325, which is amazing. I expect this one to last quite a long time. 5.- On the durability, you already mentioned that the case of the Loreo has better quality, so if you do a Timegrapher test to the Pagani you can check how healthy the movement is, so I wouldn't give it an advantage to either until you can make such a test.
The only category in which I agree is the bracelet, although mine fits alright. It doesn't have any type of on-the-fly adjustments, like the Rolex Glide Lock system, but I plan to fix that soon. In fact, I just ordered a new set of hands with better lume and a green ceramic bezel to mod mine into a Kermit clone, with black dial and green bezel. I'll touch all of this in my Loreo review that should be uploaded in a few days, and once I get the parts, I'll shoot the video of the conversion, so since I subscribed to your channel, I invite you to subscribe to mine as well.
After that conversion is done, I plan to swap the bracelet with a full Oyster with glide-lock system. So if I add the cost of the bezel, plus the bracelet, excluding the hands, I"ll get closer to the price of the Pagani, and I'll get a way better watch in all regards. But still without any conversion, I give the edge to the Loreo.
Oh, I forgot to mention. They have definitively fixed the cyclops issue. Mine has a magnification that looks exactly like the Pagani. You'll see that on my review.
Thanks for taking the time to make a very detailed comment. I'll respond in similar numbered fashion:
1. Value has to do with what you get - an ounce of wood is not the same as an ounce of gold, etc.
2. Fit category is interesting proposition, but that would make my score out of 110, which I can't abide by ;)
3. You numbering is wrong - this puts the rest of my replies out of order, but the sequence is correct.
4. $10 ceramic insert *IF* you can find a satisfactory fit and contour. Add to that waiting, potential returns, and your time and labor makes it well over $100 worth. Value gets flushed down the gutter, etc, etc.
5. Hour hands look much of a muchness between the two to me. Two T-rexes then?
6. Many (or most) would not put the Seagull the same as the NH35. Yours happens to be regulated well, mine isn't... I can't mark this based on yours. It's also got more to it than regulation and amplitude - track record is important, and the NH35 has more than 10 years behind it of good results now.
7. Good to hear they fixed the cyclops - again, I must mark based on what I got, not what they could've or would've or should've done.
Cheers man!
@@PerthWAtch I agree completely that my experience, and my sample, must be quite different than yours, thus the discrepancy in opinion. And thanks to you for the detailed reply. Have a superb day!
I where a Pagani design watch submariner every day as a knock around watch I don't have any problem with the bracelet the basil everything lines up on my watch I have been wearing it for 6mth now and I do everything in it
Awesome man, glad to hear you're getting great use out of it! :)
I'd disagree on your score of the Case and Bezel... But only on my own examples of both watches. There's zero play on my Pagani bezel, and the ceramic insert is worth an extra point in my book. I just wish they did the Pagani in a 40mm case, rather than a 43mm.
As far as the durability goes, I'd go the other way and give it to the Loreo, purely because the crown stem on the Pagani is very dodgy, and I'm not convinced it'll last more than a year of semi regular use. I might be wrong, only time will tell.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts. So basically you agree... if you saw a bezel having as much play as I clearly demonstrated, you would mark it down as I did. The stem on my Pagani feels fine, but given the poor QC of this company it is entirely plausible that some of their product will feel entirely different.
@@PerthWAtch absolutely, the QC is what really marks the Pagani down. My watch has a blemish on the lume of one of the indicies, as well as there being a slight scratch to the steel of one of the indicies as well. Neither are particularly noticeable to the naked eye, but they are there, and suggest not a lot of care and attention goes into the watch. It makes it a hard watch to recommend as, although the spec sheet is fantastic, I'll never be 100% confident it'll last - but then the same can be said of the Loreo. On my example the 12 o'clock index is misaligned, and there's noticeably less lume on one of the indicies compared with the others.
Ultimately though, if you're prepared to risk £60 on either of them, the chances are you're going to get a great watch for the money, albeit with a few defects here and there. The QC on the Pagani wasn't enough if a negative to stop me buying their Daytona homage a while back too, which appears to be QC issue free so far. 👍🏼
I kind of wish I had both now Ivan!
Just a couple clicks away Ray! :)
you are wrong about the performans loreo is nowhere near and the dial should get 1 more point cause the cyclops actualy works
You are the wrong the Loreo performs better in that it is 200m as opposed to the lesser Pagani ;)
Why do you think you need to know the date when you are underwater diving? :DDD
I actually own both exactly as shown and wear them interchangeably as my daily drivers
Cool... well what can I say, you make good choices :)
Durable...... but only 100m water resistant?
Yep
@@PerthWAtch yeah, I can see that. Because let's be honest.....who is actually going diving with a non rated watch.
i have just ordered two pagani design in blue and green one at $74 and the green at $59 you have to look for the sale items lol
Very nice, great prices! :)
Where you got them for such a steal???
I prefer the Pagani Design. Loreo name reminds me of a breakfast cereal. Tevise name is also ok with me.
Loreo reminds me of chocolate cookies somehow :)
@@PerthWAtch That's it. Oreo. I was thinking along the lines of Cheerios, or something.
All these watches are being compared to the Submariner Date, so the Pagani is 74% as good as a Submariner Date, but costs almost 120 times less?
Nah, it’s better than that coz no way I would score a real Sub 100 points! ;)
PS. Scale isn’t quite linear and definitely can’t be used to compare proportionally like that
Very interesting vid Ivan 👍👍
Thanks Ted :)
I compared the polishing of two Pagani watches to my Sea Urchin, and I saw the Sea Urchin has far better polishing than both. My second Pagani's dive extension is so poorly made that it cannot be extended. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for sharing those thoughts Jojo! Glad you enjoyed the video :)
I vote for loreo because of this factors. Loreo looks better including hands and watch case not to mention the size. Name i hate pagani design it is tho worst name in history it sounds like pagani honda t-shirt. Moviment i don't say segull moviment is better than nh-35 but it is up there mine is performing amazingly . It just adds a bit of caracter to the watch, also mine has beautiful geneva stripes decoration. Pagani design does have the ceramic bezel which is cool, but i like aluminium bezel insert like on pre-ceramic submariners. In fact i like loreo so much that it is only homage watch that i have kept in my collection
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - much appreciated!
@@PerthWAtch thank you for good presentation :)
The bezel though, P has ceramic, L is aluminum. P has better material
That's what I said, although that was accounted for in a different category.
Perth WAtch did you say it? I must miss it. But then why did you give higher score to aluminum? Make no sense. Even if the aluminum one is tighter, but the material is much lower grade than ceramic though. I also own both, the ceramic look and feel much much better.
Yes I said it... and like I said I covered material in a *different* category, with bezel mark being mainly feel (you don’t feel the ceramic, you feel the steel and the detents, and the Pagani is lousy, plain and simple) and appearance (again like I said, the Pagani has QC issues with a big blemish). For the rest of the details, you’re gonna have to just rewatch the video.
Perth WAtch yeah. My P didn’t had the diffraction on its bezel and it was actually better than L the L one I have , the bezel is almost not possible but o turn. Took me a while to turn it back to the north.
Doesn't matter to me which wins. I have the PD and the Loreo is on the way.
... it's the only answer...
@@henrybenrycat1 I don't care who wins the next one though because I'm not buying an Invicta LMFAO.
So, basically that's a double don't give a toss! ;)
@@PerthWAtch don't worry Ivan. I'm still going to watch the video anyway lol.
So it looks like Invicta just pips the Pagani as the overall winner. Assuming scores awarded to each watch in the Semis stay the same, the Invicta wins by 75 to 74.
Interesting observation Chris... but my bet is that the scores may change depending on the actual comparison, so may not yet be a foregone conclusion. All will be revealed in 2 hours with the release of the FINAL! :)
@@PerthWAtch Lol thanks for the comment, I was just being mischievous! I'm planning to get (and modify) an Invicta, but I really prefer the Pagani. My Daytona homage is wonderful, but I have smallish wrists so 43mm is just too big. Keep up the good work 🍻
The Pagani's (and Steeldive, another Aliexpress brand) sometimes have a cyclops showing a comically large date. Not sure of the cyclops uses 3x magnification or if their date font is too large, but it doesn't fit the window. It's an ugly blemish on an otherwise handsome watch. I have to go with Loreo myself, which -imho- also beats out Invicta's pro diver because it lacks the latter's ugly branding touches and has far better hour indices.
Thanks for the thoughts - looks to me like Pagani copied Rolex best when it comes to the size of the date ;)
Loreo: Solid end links, pressed clasp, sapphire glass, aluminium bezel, and a really poor brass movement with serious hacking issues.
Cost £120
Pagani Design: Solid end links, Rolex style security clasp with the 5mm extension and screw links. Ceramic bezel and sapphire glass. The movement is Seiko NH35A.
Cost £51.
Strange that, the Pagani Design is half the price of the Loreo and yet the qaulity should take the Pagani Design into the £200+ bracket.
The Loreo is way over priced, and the Pagani Design is underpriced.
Both watches are $70-75 for me. Pagani ticks the boxes on the spec list for sure... if only those ticks automatically translate to quality and good implementation, but obviously it doesn’t necessarily do that. Pagani won overall in this comparison but it was by no means the white wash that one might’ve expected going by the specs alone.
Waiting for final video
Keep your eyes peeled! :)
Pagani has a problem with bracelet for sure.Two days wearing it fell a part,screws came loose ,watch fall down,damaged case.NH35 still working,thanks to Seiko.Quality also not a great.
Yeah agreed, they have serious QC issues
Excellent review - but I think you missed something really badly - Bracelets. I own both of these watches. The Loreo bracelet is horribly finished and the clasp is a mess - maybe a 5 at best. The bracelet on the Pagani is better than $90 Strapcode bracelets I have for Seikos and the fake flip lock clasp is better than the clasp on my 2017 Omega Seamaster. I give it a 9.
I missed it? I had whole category for bracelet! Did you not see me demonstrate the bracelet fit on the Pagani is inconsistent? I did also mention the finish is better on Pagani. But the QC is very bad... many viewers have reported their clasp is difficult to use and the extension needs pliers to push back in! In the end I still gave bracelet win to Pagani... so I’m not sure what you think I missed.
@@PerthWAtch by "missed it", I meant I substantially disagreed with your score - I agreed with all the other categories but still think you overrated the Loreo and underrated the Pagani
Rooting for the Invicta
Hooyah man! Invicta rocks!! :)
Invicta needs to stop plastering their name on the outside of the case.
Skyler Phoenix I agree and just like Rolex putting needless writing on their chapter rings
Nothing bigger than a 40mm. Goes on my wrist. The big square metal top and bottom. means it often doesn't round the wrist properly.The dopey Bliger I have only has 30 m water resistance. Whats the point of a screw down crown if thats all it does. So it would be Loreo.
Haha yeah Pagani did also put out watches with screw crown yet on 30m WR!
If only the Pagani Design had designed longer hands...
Well you see, that’s where “design” would come in ;)
@@PerthWAtch It looks like a watch that was never finished and just had temporary hands stuck on for the time being...