How bike lanes make roads better for drivers - Janette Sadik Khan | Q+A 2024
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- Former New York City transportation commissioner Janette Sadik Khan tells Q+A about what she learned from pedestrianising some of the world’s most iconic streets, and how cities should prioritise transport plans now.
Join Jack Tame and the Q+A team and find the answers to the questions that matter. Made with the support of NZ on Air.
It's getting to the point where having a car is just not affordable for some families, but the public transport system is so flawed & underfunded, that getting around without at least 1 family car is almost impossible.
I don't want to have to own a car. In this day & age, living in a first world country, car ownership should be optional if living with-in 30mins of a city or large township IMO, but the reality is unless we get a government with the balls & brains to implement adequate public transport funding- from cycle lanes to buses to passenger & light freight rail systems, nothing is going to change- it's likely to get worse as we are all going to end up paying through the nose to fund roading that is never going to be up to handling the ever increasing traffic levels using it.
Here in Palmerston North, Horizons Regional Council (HRC) has just this month of March 2024 rolled out a new fleet of Chinese e-buses. The size of the new fleet has been increased by quite a lot from before with the previous diesel fleet, and the routes and timetables have been updated. Previously, buses often ran around Palmerston North with very few passengers, and I often saw empty buses. This month HRC is offering free fares, for the first month of the new bigger fleet of Chinese e-buses. Now there are lot more buses, resulting in even more traffic congestion than before, and, you guessed it, loads of empty buses. HRC is increasing rates by 20% to pay for the new bus fleet. So renters will pay too: landlords' costs go up so they put up rents to cover the increase.
@@paulrobertson1997 That is a secondary issue- in the past Kiwis were used to public transport systems, it was the norm until the 50'sif memory serves. Then there was a push to get Kiwis buying personal cars & that was so effective with the introduction of cheap imports in the 80s to 90s that personal car ownership took over & a type of stigma began to form for those using public transport systems.
By the 2000's Nz was ranked 3rd globally in terms of individual car ownership & ranked about 22nd out of 28 countries for public transport use.
The end result of decades of persuasive marketing & urban development strategies focused strongly on building & prioritising transport infrastructure that specifically supports personal car usage, has been that Kiwi's (in general) no longer see public transport as a viable option as we have been conditioned to believe that car ownership is a core part of being Kiwi.
That needs to change.
Busses are a start. but they are mostly good for short local trips IMO.
NZ is a long narrow country, which makes transport such as passenger rail ideal- both for district & national wide transport.
However, public transport no matter how good, can & will only work once Kiwi's are reintroduced & reconditioned to using it as an effective & reliable source of transport, which is the part that is lacking atm & will take some time, unless we get a goverment that has the desire & will to buck the status quo, follow the advice & previous studies findings that have already been paid for stating we need to move away from personal car ownership, towards public transport systems, despite the outcry it will invariably result in until Kiwis get back into the habit & culture of using public transport.
Sorry, that turned into a novel!
@@nixequestrian3721
Nonsense of course.
I understand you vote Labour or Green, hence your nonsense. So I totally get that.
Marketing is in fact about meeting people's needs and desires.
Some people simply like cars. In fact, a great many people all over the globe like cars. However, many of them don't own a car because of where they live being prohibitive, such as in large cities such as the likes of Paris where there is nowhere to park a car, for example. Lots of mopeds and motorbikes are parked on the big footpaths at intersections and obstructing pedestrian thoroughfare in Paris though, I know.
And many other folk simply like owning a car for other reasons; such that it provides them convenience and freedom. They can leave their home and get to where they need to be without worrying about rain and being mugged (the well-known pick pockets in Paris are notorious). And they can tow their jet ski or their caravan, or carry their bicycles on a rack to go mountain biking.
People buy cars because people simply like to have a car. Marketing is about trying to persuade buyers to buy their brand over the other brands, and that is all.
It is people's love and the freedom of cars that sells cars. It has nothing to do with any 'persuasive marketing'.
If 'persuasive marketing' worked as you suggest, I'd eat KFC and other crap.
As we further continue to over-populate and become even bigger pests of all the planet's pests, a lower percentage of people will be able to own a car in the future.
In the past, people didn't own a car for different reasons, obviously. My dad used to tell me some stories about that!
Of course, though, petrol and hydrogen is the future of transport. Petrol for cars, and hydrogen for trucks, most likely.
Electric cars is an interim measure, and an environmentally damaging one at that. If you don't know that already, please don't argue with me about it. Instead, do your homework and then you will find out for yourself.
A great many people love 'car culture'. And it is with us to stay, like it or not.
@@nixequestrian3721P.S. I purchased my first car when I was 14 years old and still a school boy. No one gave me the money to buy it. I worked for it. And that was well before "cars became cheap (due to used imports) in the (mid) '80s". Two things that reduced the price of cars are: 1) robotic assembly plants, first invented by Citroen, and Toyota soon purchased licence to use from Citroen, and others followed soon after, and 2) in NZ the Labour government got rid of import duties to make cars cheaper, so NZ's car assembly plants were closed down and locally make car parts makers went bankrupt (NZ-made tyres, glass, batteries, exhaust systems, upholstery, wiring looms and so on) , and lots lot of kiwis lost their jobs, and cars became a lot cheaper.
@@paulrobertson1997 Your first sentence is enough to show the sort of person you are & therefore not worth engaging with.
Sorry you wasted your time writing out comments that won't ever be read.
Good day to you.
BUS DRIVERS WAGES AND CONDITIONS ARE GETTING WORSE.
Yeah but they are subsidized by transit lane fines!
@@karlpartridge9546 - They are not.
Change your job.Upskill yourself for a higher paying job.
@@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj - How is your minimum wage cleaning job going?
@@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj ruclips.net/video/IL9cB-ngfP4/видео.htmlsi=vhjmN7jT7l2Gj_XJ
The period 1950 to 1984 National was the government for 28 years . But they did not build a rail network from Orewa to City, Howick to the city , Avondale to Airport (via Onehunga,Mangere bridge .... Airport then on to Papatoetoe).
The Maoris kidnapped one of my relatives, an 8 y/o girl at the time, because Pakeha built a railway line in Taranaki. She was never returned. True story. And another true story: during the first NZ Labour government's term, the only thing that saved NZ from bankruptcy that Labour caused, was that Hitler invaded Poland. Had Hitler not invaded Poland, NZ would have gone bankrupt thanks to Savage and the rest. Please don't blame me, it's in the history books, if you care to learn.
Our govt simply doesn't care about anything other than cars when it comes to transport. And they will happily make you pay for it. The developed world is going one way and we are doubling down on widening roads and other failed strategies. Sad really.
The island bay cycleway is a massive failure
@@imbtmn9836 Dont tell Julie Ann Genter from the Green Party.Hopeless thinking.Thats one of the reasons local body Wellington is in a financial mess.
Woke and Green Party thinking.
Cycleways dont produce economic growth.Dont tell the Green Party.
@@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj what does 'woke' mean? Like, really mean?
Fantastic interview. Sitting through hours of people objecting to the tiniest improvements in walking, cycling and public transport infrastructure, I'm often caused to reflect on how hard it is to get mental health help in New Zealand. Spending your life continually making ginormous assumptions that you have no evidence for, and assuming everyone who works for councils or rides a bike is evil and out to destroy you, is a level of paranoia that seems like it would benefit enormously from work with a qualified therapist.
The Pakuranga Bridge and Panmure bridges should had tolls on them since say 1980 for morning communter .This money would built a rail way from Howick to Panmure and Papatoetoe by now.
They could put tolls on cycleways. Now that's a very good idea.
Auckland City centre has made and lots older parts of city more people friendly over time. But post say 1975 suburbs are so different. Glen Innes to Panmure has lots green spaces and public transport options.
I can’t drive and want better access for my bike..
My mum never drove a car. She walked to shops to get foods from the veggies etc a number times a week and caught bus. ( 1950 to 1991 time she lived in NZ).
In December I went to Taiwan for a week. The city centre is good example of bikes,bus,car and people. The new ACT MP for Tamaki went there as a list MP ( taxpayer funded) but only talked covid on her return. She never talked about transportation.
I can’t ride and I want better access for my four cars.
For me, this interview is a breath of fresh air - solution focused and a positive tone!
This is so powerful, let's hope our transport ministry gets wind of it. "Doing a pilot reduces anxiety" Come on Simeon Brown - please don't let Aotearoa become famous for its gridlock.
Good God, this debate will go on to eternity! Car and pedestrians are not a zero sum game. We need intelligent design to work out a solution for all.
Yes! Zero sum thinking is so bad
What a breath of fresh air listening to Janette and Jack in this interview ☀
Maybe if they want us to use the bike lane then donate some bikes for us please to get started lol. Kidding.
New Zealand has an attitude problem, stuck in its ways with an inability to see the vision or the potential of what it could be. We use to be problem solvers, dreamers, doers...now God forbid if we can't role out of bed straight into a vehicle each day to get us to immediately where we desire. The mindset of "instant gratification", which brings little meaningful joy, has taken over, at the cost of true gratification which is that which is deferred. Cycling or walking may require more planning and being open to unexpected changes like weather however the journey is just as important as the destination and the journey is actually the meaningful part, which we've removed with our reliance on motor vehicles for everything (our little cages with windows).
Boring. Pick up a plan, show us how it may work, encourage support provide some leadership. This woman as far as I can see is not telling us anything new!
And there it is the current quintessential kiwi attitude. You say she isn’t saying anything new but you want “someone else” to pick up the plan, encourage support, provide leadership and then when people choose to lead (which many are on this issue - for example Jack is here by interviewing on the issue and attempting to open minds) NZ’s from their arm chair thrones pull them down, because they have forgotten how to step up. Stepping up, providing leadership and encouragement occurs through participation and leading the way. Being the change you want to see.
I disagree. Opening minds is not about restating the problem over and over, that is far too easy and encouraging this kind of generalised thinking that has no measurable outcomes provides little value. As a country we have already wasted a fortune ………
Ever tried to use our current public transport network to get to a job on time? I gave up on the trains after multiple breakdowns and currently catch the bus into town for work. I typically leave at least 2 hours prior to my start time to allow for problems with the buses.
That’s a fair enough comment. What about government subsidising you an electric scooter and your power bill to run it (as opposed to more investment in road network) would that appeal to someone like you in your situation?
I work too damed hard, in all weathers busting my hump to make a living & to contribute to a better society. I think I've earned the right to travel from A to B in comfort, convenience & the ability to have selectable options traveling in a personal vehicle gives you. I've never seen a happy cyclist in the rain or bus full of passengers not be affected by the singular sick person with the flu. But please yourself
Good for you, but the world is bigger than just yourself.
Nobody is asking you to give up on private vehicle's, but those who can and want to commute via alternative means should be given the choice, and it's also good for you, more people travelling via alternative modes means less on the roads and an easier commute for those driving.
Atm NZ is under investing in walking, cycling and public transport, and because of that alternatives are increasingly unreliable, which makes our transport system less efficient at moving people from A to B.
You are more likely to catch the flu walking along a street than you are catching public transport, depending by how often they wipe down surfaces which under health and safety standards should be every half hour or less.
I've never really seen a happy driver neither.
Looking at you, Prefab Cafe’
If NZ allowed itself to explore and generate income from our own offshore oil and gas, we would have a first class country like Singapore and Dubai, but we are so far behind now.
I think Winston Peters mentioned something about this during last year's election. Unfortunately I didn't vote for him but if you look at nz first policies it makes sense.
auckland needs a subway.
Like the CRL they're currently building?
Bike lanes that go uphill should be twice as wide, with one side for people to dismount and push their bikes uphill and the other for those who are fit enough or own electric bikes.
When you put in a bike lane you make the city better for everyone. EG Park Terrace in Christchurch.😏
she says its inexpensive - but it is expensive - everything here is expensive. NY is way larger.
too accommodate, wellington is going to have to knock out housing/buildings along roads to make the road space wider.. we are tiny windy and narrow. even the street lights are literally placed at the gutters edges - making a debacle of busses being unable to even drive into the stops and remain flush for picking up passengers.. the gutters are different heights off the roads.. nothing is 'uniform' in wellys - veranda roofs to avoid in large trucks and busses..
(and we have to replace all our drains at massive $ and do this first - not 'do the surface twice', once before - and once after. blowing out costs further).. which is what is happening now.
move quick.. ridiculous.. we are now blocking lane traffic lanes. with bus stops at 4way intersections. creating back up. actively making non flowing. and more polluting. i mean. idoling home is taking 15 - 20 mins longer now. and is being re worded as an argument to use a bus.. people did use the bus before it was privatized. and being gutted out financially. to have max profits. that are going overseas to aus bus companys and roading companys.
its a "win win win" for city's that are huge wide double laned grids.
with the space already there for bike lanes and extras.
not narrow already one way systems - who are 'road sharing' main arterial routes.
eg the 'your turn-my turn' to use a lane on a narrow areas - (eg hilly windy narrow, Aro valley etc) she is ignoring the geology of the land in wellington.. it is rock and clay.. digging that out is 'cheap'?.. and ignoring parking availability in spades over there..
if you overlay new york over wellington.. Manhattan has 8 million people in it.. and a land mass 141,300 km² with wellington landing at 444 km² we have 5 million people for the whole of nz
its a "nice to have" (more road security for bikes in dodgy areas here and there).. - not a we "need bike lanes" to exist. cyclists go to and from work - trucks busses and other vehicles - use the road and that road IS their office. day in and day out..
if drivers (you must comply) and use steel caps, when walking in a yard of parked vehicles. or driving heavy vehicles.. yet cyclists treat the road and vehicle traffic like a joke with lycra and squishy sneakers. etc..
@@lookattheflowers7854 It's really the only way forward and we have to ditch the fossil fuels
The proof of the project eh...
In Wellington the proof is 2.5 hours to get from the airport to Willis st (4.5km) on a Friday at 3pm.
Businesses failing. Expensive bike lanes that barely anyone one uses.
Sure, make bike lanes. Before you do it, make bikers oay road user tax and register their bikes. That way you know if we have the user base to make it worth while.
I had this exact reply a few days ago in the Christchurch discord server so I’ll put my reply here.
If cyclists paid the "true cost" of the damage the do to roads and the space needed. (completely ignoring the social costs that driving causes our society ie pollution, road deaths and serious injuries etc) it would be laughable and there would be no point collecting it.
This is because of the 4th power law where the amount of damage done to the road is calculated on a weight per axle to the 4th power 10^4 (10 x 10 x 10 x 10)
Car (total weight 2 tonnes, 2 axles): load per axle: 1 tonnes
Bicycle (total weight 0.1 tonnes, 2 axles): load per axle: 0.05 tonnes, or the car has 20 times the load per axle as the bicycle
20^4 = 20 ⋅ 20 ⋅ 20 ⋅ 20 = 160 , 000 times as large The road stress ratio of the car to bicycle is 160,000 to 1.
So even at the absolute lowest reasonable value at 1/1000 and then take the upcoming BEV (battery electric vehicle) RUC rates at $76 per 1000km and we travel 10,000 km per year that is $760. $760/1000 = $7.60 per year for 10,000 kilometres travelled. No point even collecting it, the admin cost is higher than that.
Also as fuel levy and rego payed doesn't even come close to the true cost of roads, who pays to resurface most of the streets and roads in Christchurch, the Council whom everyone who lives here pays rates to through rent, buying goods and services or directly paying to the council if you are lucky enough to own a home.
Pity we don’t have good alternative options to the car eh.
A bike wouldn’t take 2.5hrs, but unfortunately there are still large sections that are unsafe for biking…
If only 10% were able to bike instead of drive it would reduce the congestion and improve travel times for 90% who still were driving.
@@georgelaxtonSo cyclists pay for the cycle lanes and then pay nothing for ages for the upkeep of their beloved lanes.
Spent tens of millions on bike lanes in Dunedin, no one is using them.
On yer bike!
They did that in Christchurch too. Christchurch council posted a big hoohaa on RUclips a few months ago.
best thing about my car is its not full of people.
Wellington is too windy for bikes We recently saw a man get blown off his bike into busy traffic silly idea
Too windy for bikes 😂
Did you watch the interview lol?? Anywhere in the world it’s either were too small too hot too cold to hilly too big too old too whatever. Everywhere it’s the same it’s always too something for bike infrastructure.
Karl is cyclephobobic
I love my vehicles, I'll keep them thanks.
What until fuel goes to $4 or $5 per litre and this is on cards due to ever increasing global geopolitical instability.
I love my vehicles especially my motorcycle, however I’d rather sit on an air conditioned train with a bar, snacks and a toilet than spend an hour behind the wheel in peak Auckland traffic
I am a cyclist Bike lanes are great in flat cities like amsterdam ,palmerston north , hamilton , christchurch etc But A grade stupid in hilly cities like wellington or auckland where you have to be fit My father lives in Mangere no one uses the bike lanes Worse in NZ we have compulsory helmet use which you do not see in amsterdam etc
Well E bikes and e scooters will change the game as price decreases they will be significantly cheaper in the future making longer and more hilly trips feasible for more people.
Can’t really expect many people biking on existing lanes when most are unseparated / protected, but most importantly don’t connect to a wider network. Like building a motorway with very limited connecting roads and being surprised no one’s driving on it, or using the low numbers to justify not connecting roads to it.
It is feasible in Auckland and Wellington with a decent investment package to increase cycle mode share it’s been done in other hilly / smallish centres. This alongside intensification and land use changes.
If we can only increase cycle mode share a bit there will be great benefits in congestion, travel options and even economically. Health / mental health also.
Also cycling can be used to enhance PT people cycling to train stations or bus stations instead of park and rides taking up tons of space, space that can be used for transit oriented development.
There is massive opportunity cost for not investing in this infascture it’s very cheap relative to other transport infrastructure, takes up little space and really makes sense on a holistic 21st century approach to transprot to ensure the most efficient and nice to live in cities.
So you've never heard of electric bikes/scooters?
@@Matthew-zv8qethis is the issue... It's all unconnected, and the onramps around the CBD are extremely dodgy, steep and in a few cases, on uneven paving. I almost went head over handlebars trying to get to grey Lynn from Kingsland on the cycle lane ..
You don’t sound like a cyclist at all. Before I moved to London, I lived in Auckland for 6 years. In that time the increase in cyclist commuters was massive. Especially in my last couple of years (2019-2021). If you’re fit enough, the hills aren’t a problem. If you’re not, e-bikes make light work of it.
I'll call bs on that. I commute daily to the cbd and I see very few bikes.@@guiliamo1
I can't find a single debate with Janette Sadik Khan yet there's hundreds of recording of her. She comes across as biased and self-righteous, showcasing lots of half-truth stats, oversimplifying and highlighting 'only' the benefits, she's like a toothpaste commercial for bike lanes.
She’s a mad greenie
It is not about bikes, it is walking and greater use of public transport services. Unfortunately cars are a stopper for this efficient systems.
This lady is out of the Julie Ann Genter Green Party playbook.
@@ShirleyZhang-bt4dj - More woke comments.
Nauseous !
I want better roads for my cars...
A side effect of investing in infrastructure for public transport, walking and cycling is that less cars end up using the roads, which end up making your car journeys better
Nice if you're able bodied, so many people use cars and vans specially built for their needs.....not comparing apples with apples in this interview at all.
I love bikes but on a shitty day love cars more!
The only thing invested in on Auckland's road network lately has been the ridiculously steep and high judder bars that force traffic to constantly slow down and accelerate and in some places practically tear the exhaust off of a standard ground clearance car.@@kyliec143
Why. Do you like increasing traffic congestion?
...Bet she drives home from the studio
She says growth! She means non New Zealanders! So all this is for foreigners! When do us Kiwi's get first choice for Jobs and houses!
Let who pays decide, we have had these bike clowns, I still have no idea what blue and orange road markings mean let alone the illegal pedestrian crossings.
This women is out of the Julie Ann Genter playbook.
She comes from a successful city. Yes she looks different to D Seymour,C Luxton ,and W Peters.
You mean someone who actually understands transport planning... yes she does
@@ecd9688 current cabinet. I think W Peters understands foreign affairs, and healthy minister and associate health minister from ACT who deals with ACC and mental health know their stuff.
Education she is clever but during the election she admitted she did not fully know a lot about education, transport/local gov minister is has gap etc.
Hope they bone up on stuff.
It's just sad that thing like transport have become ideological when decisions should be pragmatic and evidence based. Hopefully we'll get to that place one day
Yes, she has an imagination, and it’s ‘woman’.
shes has her own opinion which i respect but she doesn't understand the needs of aucklanders and new zealanders. nz is so sparse and only white collar workers who live close to work can ride bikes the majority of workers need cars because they live further or for example tradies will have to carry tools etc
But if all those white collar workers got off the road it would be so much easier to get to your job as a tradie.
It is about reducing non essential vehicles, so tradies can get to their jobs quicker than being stuck in ever increasing traffic congestion.
So people need to live close to jobs & that means building apartments in the city. And if we have good PT and then you can work from home too! We can so do this!
We don’t have the right, brilliant, smart individuals to think and develop a good structure for Auckland.
Who invited her here to advise our mayors? 😒... She is using examples from cities that have a higher population than our entire country! 😳... Yeah, nah America has problems of their own go back and take care of your own problems woman! 👋
Imagine trying to learn from other people and their experience
@@mjf773 I imagine how great it would be if their experience is relevant and feasibly adaptable 👍
it is time to move away from car orientated urban sprawl to sustainable environmentally friendly public transport, walking and cycling urban planning and development where a car is a privilege not a right.
Woman can use bikes.
Men carry tools to make things !
But why do they have king cab utes and not vans like real tradies?
In Wellington where there is business are going bankrupt because of the cycle lanes,
The wellington council is spending money on cycling infrastructure at the expense of the water works, time to get there act together
When cycle lanes are built business either remains the same or grows according to actual studies not hear say from some random person on the internet.
Why you think 15 car park spaces will “bankrupt” a business I don’t know.
Stop voting the tossa's in then. What do you expect, God you lot even voted in Commie Greens as MPs in Wellington.
What proof do you have the businesses are going bankrupt dues to cycle lanes?
Resene are moving from Cambridge terrace because they have lost their car park there for no customer is that good enough for you @@georgelaxton
Note how jack is all sweet and gushy on this interview. Yet when interviewing he was a combative stuttering angry little hedgehog that didn’t allow Simeon to speak.
Bias much lefty jack ??
that's because Simeon didn't answer a single question & kept repeating the same slogans.
The cyclists don’t use the cycle lanes. Very annoying that they still use the road. Make the cyclist pay!
New York is nothing like Auckland. People in New York live and travel very localised. They don't in Auckland. So the comparison is ridiculous. Is no different to wondering why public transport doesn't work in Auckland as it does in Tokyo. Population. She doesn't have a clue
Of course, New York has a much higher population density but that's testament to it's Urban Planning policies.
Auckland and all of NZ main Urban centre's are looking to also increase Urban intensification, and so this interview was just an insight into what our cities should be investing into in light of our changing attitudes towards Urban Planning.
And also she's reflecting her experiences that share alot of similarities to what is happening in NZ, pedestrianisation and cycling infrastructure cost a fraction to the total budget but due to a change in status quo people are more likely to criticise it.
Public transport does and has worked in Auckland and wider NZ, it's just alot of it is subject to poor planning and underinvestment, Auckland does have the circumstances to argue for a good PT system, and it's not going to stop growing.
With more higher density Residential Zones, cycling infrastructure, Public Transport and a Pedestrian focused city will become more necessary, because building more roads hasn't worked and is the reason why Auckland is so spread out and why we lack the population density that many cities enjoy.
Money wasted on cycle trails, what right does the council have imposing what they think is what should be, get off this climate bandwagon, not what you are elected to do, essential services and infrastructure, not whot you want, we do not want cycle lanes impeding vehicular movements.
People on bike's ride sitting down going up hill WOBBLING takin up half a lane,🤡 yelled thinking i run into him intentionally ✌🏽
If you hit someone with your car, I don't care if it was intentional or not... That is dangerous
@@growtocycle6992 He wobbled into me taking up half a lane,How's that my fault or should i have driven into on coming traffic with the mum droping off her school kid's so I don't hit him cause he cant be bothered to stand& pedal 🤷🏽♂️
@@growtocycle6992 TEACH YOUR PEDAL PEOPLE HOW TO RIDE A BIKE IN THAT SPACE NOT CAR SPACE
@@turangatohiariki3042if you want to overtake another road user, it's entirely your responsibility to leave enough space as you pass them. And entirely your fault if you hit them while doing so. You're either a 🤡 or a w⚓️...
@@TheTraveller20081 ,So im the 🤡 & wanka because HE can't ride a bike UP HILL🤔 if you cant ride a bike PROPERLY on the ROAD where a car belong's catch a bus or walk UNDER COVER KEY BOARD WARRIOR
Make registration fees for bikes $
User pays collect sum money