Stopping people dying on the job - Brooke van Velden on workplace safety | Q+A 2024
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- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2024
- Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden on New Zealand's appalling rate of workplace deaths, WorkSafe, minimum wage, and reinstating 90-day trials for all businesses off the back of anecdotes.
Join Jack Tame and the Q+A team and find the answers to the questions that matter. Made with the support of NZ on Air.
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There’s something about this woman’s patronising tone and manner that I personally find disingenuous and distrustful. She ignores evidence-based research. Nothing about what she says installs confidence that she has workers interests at heart. It feels like we’re being “spin doctored”.
Wasn't it interesting how she conflated looking at the data with "getting into the weeds"🤔🤦♂️🤦♂️
Gosh her mate "what you talking about Willis" must really wind you up then.🤭
@@myresponsesarelimited7895 Not wound up. Just distrustful.
@@myresponsesarelimited7895 😂. Same level of distrust and lack of credibility.
It's because she's a sociopath.
She needs to go and work in a engineering heavy fabrication jobbing shop for a few years breath in the carcinogenic fumes and dusts do 12 hour days welding and grinding in continuous extreme noise and vibration levels, experience the stress and pressure the time poverty all for exploitative abusive wages teach her how utterly incompetent and naive she really is. New Zealand is already far under safe levels workers are sacrificed for profits, they just going to make it even more one sided to business at the cost of the workers. We need actual competent people that understand what’s going on. All business should be inspected and paid for in the same way as a WOF is for cars and the penalties for non compliance should be severe. The idea that brook has even the slightest care for other humans is ridiculous she’s all about the rich money. Good work on showing her true colours Jack.
Did none of that happen under Labour?
Have you reported this workplace you are talking about to Worksafe or Minister Brooke van Velden's office? If not why not?
@@tommym6515they are not in government anymore Brooke is and she’s removing regulations rather than adding them. She is a complete puppet of Seymour with no thoughts on her own. Pathetic representation of a woman in government!
you also have a responsibility to wear the correct PPE
@@tommym6515 that's not the point. The point is businesses cost of compliance is ahead of workforce safety for van Velden.
Anecdotal evidence…she should not be in charge of workplace health and safety
Everything is anecdotal until it’s been proven true. Give her a chance she’s new to the job.
If a labour minister had given such a fluffy waffly interview NACT wouldn’t be saying give them a chance, they’re new!!
She’s a government minister. Needs to be 100% on the game from day 1!! Can’t do it, don’t put your yourself forward for it!!
@@sunset5927 fluffy? Waffly? Do you have a dictionary? Clearly you are an idiot. who are you to judge whether she is competent at her job? She hasn’t even had the chance to prove herself yet.
@Xornhub had we a functional economy maybe we could be patient with chicky, but were in it up to our necks right now! We don't have time for on the job training, especially for people who have legislated an ability to veto any objections from actual experts.
@@Xornhubthat comment to sunset is rich, her ineptitude obviously wasn't lost on you given your first comment, all politicians ducking questions waffle on and on using fluffy tropes and platitudes.
Maybe you don't see it🤷♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
The more she talks the more I'm convinced she's a sociopath.
She's very good at saying "that's a very good question" not so good at actually answering.
Minimum wage is not there to make sure more people get hired, it’s there to make sure people getting enough money to survive, Brooke!
She only looks at what impacts the business, never the worker
@@RJH755as a worker in supermarket I disagree, think about the whole country economically, not just the immediate in front of yourself
@@chaywilder6278well, businesses need to factor those costs into their budget. You can’t ignore minimum wage. No one will work for you if the pay is 💩 and businesses are making record profits. This is an attempt to cut costs not save them.
@@chaywilder6278 interesting, and how is your wage comparing to their record profits growing each year?
@@chaywilder6278
...what - like management at Woolworths, or foodstuffs?...
I was on the H&S committee at my job & SAVING MONEY was given priority over BEST PRACTICE. The company management emphasised 'Meeting Minimum Requirements' to ensure the company was 'Legally' save from prosecution while NOT providing the 'Best' protection to the workers. We welded, polished & sanded stainless steel which all release carcinogenic gasses & dusts & when testing found that the areas were above New Zealand standards the ONLY change was a notice to say wearing the disposable partial face masks were now mandatory when the H&S committee recommended going to full Face filtered air masks. However the company said it was too expensive & that if people put the disposables on properly they would be save but no matter how hard I tried I could NEVER get them to seal around my large nose. The company meet its legal requirement but not its moral requirement.
I would argue the company did, in fact, not, meet its legal requirements - as you were provided with PPE which was ill fitting thus not offering the correct level of protection.
We have a:
•minister of health whose job is to promote tobacco
•minister of employment whose job is to make more people unemployed
•minister for the environment whose job is to remove environmental protections •minister of education whose job is to destroy state schools...
•minister of workplace relations and safety whose job is to fracture workplace relations and ignore safety...
🤷🤷
Well said!!!!
This
Absolutely this
Thanks for making it so clear
Well, the HSW Act is pretty clear - if there is a known hazard or risk, you are obligated to control it. Since RCS is a known hazard and risk, you are obligated to control it immediately. Why are we redoing work Australia has already done, considering we adopted their HSW law in the first place? If you know there is a risk to workers and the business, you MUST take action to control it immediately, especially one where there is evidence that it causes a fatal disease! I agree with Jack, pause all engineered stone work until further information and research comes to light, and stop putting people's lives at risk. She's gone on a corporate word saladathon, saying much but very little. While I get the politicians life is exactly that, saying much but nothing, when it comes to the lives of young men (let's face it, it's almost entirely young men doing this work) there is no compromise or vacillating about - you must act first, then take a good hard look. If the risk is then found to be lower, by all means go with a more nuanced approach. Under the Hierarchy of Controls, the first step is to ELIMINATE the hazard. So hit the pause and prevent all further risks, and in the meantime get further evidence before proceeding. This is not hard to understand.
Why is she smiling and laughing when asked serious questions about deaths and injuries?
Because she's a sociopath.
One of the many, many, many red flags.
She, and most of her cronies don't give a fuck about workers...
or N.Z's global reputation,
or the environment,
or Maori,
Or poor people,
Or offenders,
Or beneficiaries,
Or certain migrants,
or the Maori language,
or the Public Service providers, or the road toll,
or smokers,
or evidence,
or expert advise,
or Pacific Island New Zealanders, or the Treaty,
or rate payers,
or Council staff,
or the Wellington ferry workers,
or beneficiaries,
or building standards,
or our beautiful cows on boats,
or the police force,
Or the knowledge & wisdom of teachers and principals...
There are dozens more, can anyone add more?
This government cares about their rich mates, some farmers, and many business owners.
I used to be proud to be a Kiwi. Not so much now.
What the value of your life brook? You who are so happy to sacrifice the poor and working class for the gain of the rich and privileged.
An ACT party politician in control of workplace health and safety?.... we're in good hands 💀💀
Welcome to Ancapistan!
Brooke is fantastic!
@@chaywilder6278why? She’s said nothing of substance throughout this entire interview:/
@@chaywilder6278Clearly, you are joking.
@@barbsmart7373 No, I am not joking.
Personally I think the person that holds this portfolio should have worked in heavy industry themselves. She is basically talking about making it easier for business not worker safety.
We need to review and make sure our changes do not affect the profitability of any of my mate's businesses... that is what I heard out of ACT policy
It's really hard to stomach the repeated 'money in your back pocket' rhetoric. Such a meangingless rehearsed line...
More WorkSafe inspectors are needed and allow them to do the unexpected compliance visits they used to do. It was as much about education as regulation. The last National government didn’t want that and you can see the results since then. Up to 600 people die a year from disease from workplace exposure (chemicals, wood dust, silica dust, paint, asbestos). Pulling back regulations will amp up workplace injuries and deaths.
The Minister of Anecdotes. Incredible.
Its like she doesn't know the subject.
She hasn't talked to anyone in construction. Well maybe the ceo of Fletchers construction, but no one that actually does the work.
Super critical of previous government.., yet no clue of what she doing.. other than 3 yrs of consulting n head scratching
Every time I hear this woman I think... she's done the course, read the book, seen the movie and that's where it stops.
There's no real life experiences.
Really, Chloe Swarbrick does the same to me 🥱🙄
@@janbrown9195you’re comparing a robot to a human being here, not a fair comparison
@@janbrown9195 Chloe comes to an interview having done her homework. She'll quote multiple reports/studies/stats.
Brooke shows up with her economics degree, a few ideological assumptions and a few anecdotes about conversations she's had with donors.
No matter what political stripes you wear, you gotta admit there's a huge difference in the work Chloe and Brooke have put in to their arguments
@@4hm35319hd0h5
Well said, Chloe also employs a lot of moral and ethical arguments from ancient Greece, the birth place of democracy (democracy is sht in my opinion)
...nevertheless Chloe just goes straight over a lot of people's heads, Kiwis aren't exactly brimming with philosophical prowess, and many who are dismiss her due to personal conflicts of interest.
Chinese proverb " a pretty woman makes a good point" I guess that's why her ducking the question was just annoying as opposed to simian brown who I found infuriating bouncing all over the show to avoid the crux of the question.
Why isn't NZ following Australia's example and banning engineered stone, which can cause the debilitating and deadly disease silicosis?
😡😡😡
Why do we follow Australia in everything they do?
@@haydnjames5617maybe because they have the 14th largest economy in the world and almost 6x the population
@@haydnjames5617everything? Simply, we don't.
There is some harmony in standards. Around the workplace Australian/New Zealand Standards are developed by Standards Australia, an independent organisation that prepares and publishes voluntary technical and commercial standards which are sometimes adopted by occupational safety and health regulations.
@@tonybolstad9514 does not mean they are right
Because developers need more luxury kitchen bench top options, silly.
What she is really saying is "....We don't care about workplace safety, we just want to make life easier and cheaper for those businesses that made large donations to us before the election. If a few more workers die or get injured, then too bad"
What a poor understanding and listening skill set you have. Maybe you’re just blind by partisan ignorance though 🤣🤣
BS
Also: "we don't care about the report that says the 90 day trials don't help the economy. We care about the votes from businesses who also don't care about that report."
@@janbrown9195 Yep, which is what Brooke is full of.
every nat minister has absolutly no idea of the details of there portfolioes, they have one aim only money money money
Brooke wants reform, i wonder if that means more tax breaks for landlord's..
Business first, workers second. Pretty good summary of the government
A bit like the last government Criminals first everyone else second....
The biggest problem is managers belittling employees and making them feel they are replaceable if they don't perform
I would have a lot more respect for Brooke in this interview if she answered the question, “would more health and safety inspectors make a difference to improve outcomes” by saying “I don’t know, that’s what I am looking into and my hope is to make it so that more inspectors do make a better impact by aligning the policy settings so they are simple and effective”. Why are politicians so adverse to saying, I don’t know the answers yet, i am working on it and will let you know when I’ve reached a conclusion.
Some are a hell of a lot worse than others.
Listening to Chris Hipkins is a lot more reassuring. He is honest and real. And he cares about people.
So says a woman/ person who has never been physically at risk in her employment..
" not off the top of my head"......" not of the top of my head"......"thats a good question"
Remember folks that every bottle store & dairy owner in the country voted for this muppet.
Spend your money with integrity.
So Brook is saying that her employer friends that are complaining they’re getting repetitively hit by worksafe are always compliant , clearly worksafe are wrong…
My old job involved talking with injured workers including people with silicosis. A lot of them were stone masons who'd worked with engineered stone. The conversations with those people are imprinted on my mind because you could hear the person's suffering in every struggled breath. The link between silicosis and engineered stone is very clear, so the choice is simple: prioritize workers health, or prioritize luxury countertop options.
She knows nothing.
All about business, companies and stuff workers safety
"People might not come home at the end of the day"
Country's that let covid rip through the community also had other health services effected, wait lists ballooned for them also, difference here is we didnt have the death toll from covid they had. This is not a government for people it's a government for money at any cost to people.
90% of the country could have continued as usual without any issue but you all brought into the fear mongering
The big payouts for nought have to eventually to be paid for theirs no free lunch, NewZealand is in dyer straits , listen to what the Minister of finance is saying without scaring the public.
Also, what screenings would hospitals do if they were overwhelmed with Covid patients? Her sociopathic rhetoric completely lacks common sense and logic.
@@mobbarley7517 yeah like they did in New York burying people in mass graveyards.
@@richardpeychers4076 New Zealand is fine if you don't spend money on tax cuts for landlords and make up shit about previous government overspending like Willis does.
Brooke; I don’t want to be a reactionary politician.
Later….
Brooke: (repeatedly in one form or another) Business told us…
Only reactionary when it’s business talking aye Brooke
Equivalent needed for customers and clients. NZers consumers should not support business's that are unsafe, unhealthy, pay crap wages and create dangers to the public - as well as workers
They've appointed a fox to guard the henhouse
Why is it everything they do benefits the upper class at the cost of the working class?...
Which business has Brooke worked in that had a significant health and safety risk....? Another career bureaucrat with zero real world experience
Exactly, but she wants to lessen protections for all of us with real jobs
I used to go to EGGS- Epsom Girls' Grammar.
We used to see the girls from St Cuths...their uniform and the privateness of their school made them all seem privileged. More than we obviously were. I used to wonder about those girls in their traditional, old-fashioned uniforms... Now I get to see what one of the products is like.
A bit of an embarrassment for the school, I'd say... she can't have left long ago...she hasn't learned much and doesn't seem capable of answering questions at all.
Do they teach girls how to smile, appear sweet and like pink? Does anyone know?
Where do people learn to pretend to be cool, calm politicians with a ready answer... that says absolutely nothing and leaves you feeling still wanting an answer to a very simple question!!! What does she truthfully think about inspectors?? Will she ever, ever cut out the bullshit?
We all can't be the only Kiwis who can see through her nonsense!
There are plenty of St Cuthbert's old girls who find her appalling. We are ashamed.
why all the anecdotes from minister wares the research
I watched Chris Penk’s interview 1st & was pleased to give credit on a decent interview. Bit depressing watching this interview - same fluff, talking of vibes & outcomes like other current govt ministers
Pike river mine under the national govt still has a big ? On it
More waffle from ACT neoliberal libertarian politician who like with National have talked to a lot of people (businesses) who would like more freedoms to make extra money (profits). By the way, tax cuts do not reduce inflation, as those tax cuts will disappear due to inflation. For person who has an economics degree, should release that if a country relies heavily on importation of most every day items, who sells exports cheaply, has an inefficient supply supply chain networks inflation will not go way, as it is at the whimp's of global geopolitical, economic, manufacturing and supply chains and heath uncertainties.
Thank the Socialist Progressives for borrowing $160 billion and emptying it into a stagnant economy for the inflation you're presently enjoying.
Neoliberal and libertarian economic policies have clearly been evidenced now to lead to growing inequality and a massive redistribution of wealth upward. Lots of research coming out now demonstrating this along with the transference of public money into private hands, at times to the detriment of the majority of citizens. This can occur with Public Private Partnerships if enough safe guards to protect the public interest are not put in place or there is a lack of true competition. We’re hearing lots of talks about NACT favouring these for infrastructure projects. We only have to look to how the UK has fared with PPP’s.
@@Flowers60-pl6jp - I agree with you.
Weve only just heard about it?
Weve known about it for years.
Are we only acting because Australia is.
Jack is the best
At what?
Ok. Who are her mates? What industries are they in? And does she even believe what these mates are saying? And sorry, if the work cannot be made safe then it should stop. It is hard to see how compliance costs will not increase with increased health and safety. She needs to understand the difference between stories based what her friends in business want and what actual evidence might show. The ongoing lack of confidence in the economy is not helped by government ministers who are so blind to their biases.
Well said.
She has no idea about health and safety in the different industries whether it be Forestry, Agriculture, Engineering, Construction Horticulture and everything she says is I think this and I think that and not really sure what she is talking about
She’s a moron. She has no business dictating anything to industry
Well let’s hear your expertise in all the areas mentioned? she’s only the minister the actual health and safety information will be given to her by qualified people. All she does is take all the evidence and then implement change if needed once she has that information.
There is nothing going through her head
@@Xornhub She doesnt do that, dont kid yourself.
@@Xornhub she needs to walk before she talks
Soooo just anecdotal evidence? ...Nice one Jack.
Is there some sort of act workshop where they learn to sound ignorant and condescending when speaking
🤭😆🤣🤣
Hahaha... that's what I was wondering. I guess I shouldn't have implicated St Cuths, may be it's an inbred thing.
what a absolute waste of 30 minutes
Going to be a test, to see if she actually understands the word safety, being the Minister for Workplace Relations and SAFETY... 🤷
Please contact the minister and *ask for her resignation* . I already have.
Agree 100% on questioning the bullocks look good feel good H&S measures such as workplace posters. These measures & other fluff like everyone wearing hi-viz do nothing for safety. An H&S industry has thrived with companies clipping the ticket for providing useless course’s & safety kit. Just allows employers to claim they care about safety but then their workers are still harmed.
So fair call to review all this. BUT I’m not convinced that this govt will improve our dire safety stats. Brooke’s desire is to allow businesses to make more money, not to improve worker safety
I think I'd agree with you on some of things you said here, but do you really think wearing hi-vis does nothing for safety?
If you're more visible, you're more likely to be seen - and less likely to be hit by an operator of a vehicle/machine
The Coalition of Chaps and Chap Asses.
I work in Australia and my supervisors don't want us to put hazard reports in on their equipment. So, I'm just never going to do one because, what's the point with that attitude.
Does she believe in evidence or just take everything businesses that like her say at face value?
HEALTH AND SAFETY IS COMPROMISED BY COMPANIES.
WHAT ABOUT THAT ???
Can we have a political panel to digest what your guests would have said. Thanks
Big Hairy News does this
BHN is utter nonsense. Pat is an absolute mouth breather.
@@tommym6515nah he’s just way over your head
I’ve tried engaging with him many times. All he does insult people that disagree with him.
Agree, this was a great feature of Newshub Nation
Good on you jack thank you where so lucky to have you brotha Allen karipa using my mates tablet
I cannot believe this womans refusal to answer the very clear question. Do you think we need more inspectors or not!
"Not off the top of my head" X2 seems inspectors are not the only one's who don't know exactly what they're doing. ...train them better maybe.
If its not safe. Dont do it. Workplace Safety. in a nutshell.
Thats a lovely shade of pink
" I haven't considered what other countries are doing in this space " ...why the hell not considering how you all say how high? when murica says jump???
What policy has been introduced by this government as a direct response to an American policy?
@@tommym6515
3 strikes.
@@tommym6515 Rogernomics
@@tommym6515
ie ...privatization
@@tommym6515
Deregulation
It’s interesting a lot of Brooke’s “evidence” is based on walk ups to her.
So if you want her to change a policy, rock up and have a chat with her.
She has the same spin as the government on and before the 18th of November 2010.
Ban the gang patches won't ban kiddie corn, f this itch
Literally never thought my holiday rights were complicated.
She's all talk and no action
Huh, she literally detailed what she is doing.
She only just got the job??
@@Xornhub - She is only doing her job as a good neoliberal libertarian, that supports less costs for business allowing for better profits.
@@tommym6515 Sorry, where was the detail?
90 day trials isn’t about increasing employment it’s about reducing commitment to individuals
If you really are serious about stopping people from dying on the job, you need to have spot checks after the job is done. Not to punish but to review how it was done. Workplaces provide training but accept people do unsafe acts until there is an injury. Then say he she was trained. It's BS. Have an independent person review jobs to hold employees and employers accountable. Until then, it's under the rug, swept away. If you really want change
Orders to be on time for export, crashed into the wall whizzing around on a forklift in a confined area speed limits supposed to be walking pace 😂 retired now pleased to be out of it
I work as a dairy farmer and did some years Fencing, almost died more times than I can remember, I dont think everything can be bubble wrapped. Maybe different for the construction side of things I dont know much about that. Sounds sketchy. It has its dangers for sure but its a different pace.
Had no idea fencing was so dangerous.
Work safe is a joke… near zero stick… I’ve had multiple roles in engineering shops which were operating illegally.. and Worksafe have umm n arrrrgh ummmm arrrgh zero costs on any of those as employers
National have all the housewives. Got to be good.
Workplace safety as far as I'm concerned has gone away over the top. What I might deem a safety risk someone else says it's not. Whatever happened to common sense. It's ridiculous even the health and safety safety ideas have made it more of a safety hazard at times. I know a few examples of where the health and safety requirements and laws came into force. That businesses had to follow there were some awful accidents because of the guidelines they had to follow. But you don't hear about any of that. Not saying there isn't a place for health and safety because there is. But seriously people. There's a difference between being safe and being downright stupid
Workers compensation . They follow occupational health doctors decisions . Not really law can apply plus They have oversight
The old act was clearer, you knew how to identify a significant hazard.
I'm generally quite supportive of Brooke but I wonder if she got too many responsibilities for a young first time minister.
Team building gov needs to get behind sporting clubs rugby netball etc example a group of forestry workers in a rugby team the dream team would look out for each other, & more so on the job educate one another, team work makes the dream work.
All I can hear is let's take away rights so businesses can make more money
You hear correctly.
Work place safety That’s occupational Doctors duty
Maybe the cutting corners and sh'll be right attitude of employers and workers alike has a lot to do with it. Yeah, nah
Vibes
She is evil
And yet you voted for a party that wanted to limit speech. Yet here you are exercising your freedom of speech.
It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
How is she evil?
@@tommym6515 you don’t know who I voted for, but it sure wasn’t these right wing nut jobs in act
@@tommym6515 also is that the best you can come up with? How about you try backing up her policies. Oh wait you can’t, it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad ☺️
@@Xornhub she just is, it’s an undeniable fact.
She is the wrong person to be this minister. The NZ first guy from Northland. W Peters.
Clearly all this mindless compliance has been a failure if we have such rates of injury
There is a loophole in the law that says must do the best you can within your budget, you don't have to do the best practise if you can't afford it which is being used all the time as in my full comment. Companies are meeting legal requirements (mostly) while not meeting the moral requirement (with exceptions).
What is she on
Businesses are people? 15:20
The NZ economy has not evolved into a modern service post industrial society. It remains heavily dependent on manual hard physical work and imported third world workers to do these degrading low skill work. it also reflects the poor education and low education and reading skills of many involved in forestry and farming, people who do not follow basic safety requirements themselves. Historically up until the mid 1970s in most nations even in the western world by competitive necessity or political intent much of the industrial workforce were dead or maimed by the time they were 40. NZ was different in that most of the NZ workforce in the twentieth century were never employed under the long hours and hard physical conditions of even Australia. In the UNited States as in the old uSSR many employees say WAlmart or any military shipyard had a revolver ready to use on their own staff. Most serious employers in Australia or the USA would have expected 55-60 hours 6 days a week in working class work even in 1970s.
Brooke talks sense. It's a good start: hope she can improve things.
Terminator.
She keeps talking about about doing thing X or thing Y "for the businesses" never for the worker, seems like she's never worked a real job a day in her life either so this is all theoretical for her
What happened to self safty an comon sense are the modern workers to dumb to protect themselves
My mate said "the problem with common sense is that it ain't that common" my site safety course provider said "the term suggests that common sense implies something is common knowledge which isn't true" when it comes to those that lack said common knowledge - mum said "there's one born every minute" 🤷♂️😆
Yeah, workers are just too dumb to protect themselves, because everything is totally within their control. Like if the scaffolding an employer brought is dodgy, or the machinery the employer makes them use is old and has no safety guards, or if they work in a factory with no ventilation or a building site with exposed wiring. Totally up to the worker to control that. Or if their employer insists they work with dangerous materials. Totally up to the employee. If you fall off a roof because your employer refused to pay for a harness, obviously it's the workers fault for not having better balance.
Jack Tame is a fantastic sophist
What are the fallacious arguments he uses? I'd be happy to rewatch again with a different point of view if you show me how he was reasoning with a deceptive argument?
Hair dressers are doing ok.
You must contest for Miss World. The only beautiful politician ❤
Most employers have the highest protocol for Health and safety, but yet there is still human error. Inspectors will always be there after the event of an incident. Random drug testing needs to be stepped up for work places.
You are 💯correct,self responsibility always comes into play .
You should've seen the joint before OSH turned up.
...alota people didn't make home back then.
Every employer that you ever talk to will say that worksafe hse is ott
What on earth is she talking about..